Full Transcript for Mermaids

name, but they're flying on the back of the 76 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:44.039 bird like past some apartment buildings, and an animator played 77 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:47.240 a prank in the original print of that movie where 78 00:03:47.319 --> 00:03:51.319 he cut out a still frame from a porno and 79 00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:54.199 put it in one of the windows that they flew past. 80 00:03:54.919 --> 00:03:57.400 And I believe that that is real, and that the 81 00:03:57.479 --> 00:04:00.759 film was recalled, like prints that had that were recalled, 82 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:03.520 And I think ever since then, it's become this sort 83 00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:05.719 of legend that there's all these other things you can 84 00:04:05.800 --> 00:04:10.599 find a dizzy movies. Sometimes legend feels overly generous. In 85 00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:12.560 the case of the Dix on the Little Mermaid post 86 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:15.639 just the one, they're pretty clearly dix somebody thought they 87 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:16.560 were having a good time. 88 00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:19.160 I mean Roger Rabbit, which was on purpose stuff. They're 89 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:21.879 not trying to sneak that past sentens for the most part, 90 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:24.360 I guess. But the the train, the end tune in 91 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:26.399 town when they knocked down the m It's all like 92 00:04:26.439 --> 00:04:29.560 I think every car is depicting a different murder. It's 93 00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:32.800 like animated, but still that's what's happening. Yeah, but uh yeah, 94 00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:37.839 I Little Mermaid, Ariel, great songs, great songs, Alan Mankin, 95 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:42.560 the Goat, the Goat, undisputed undername Judy Benson, something dumping Benson. 96 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:45.519 I think so Judy or Julie played Ariel. 97 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:48.120 Ariel in the original. I think of her name right now, 98 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:49.680 something Benson. I think it was. 99 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:53.160 That animated film was based on the Hans Christian Anderson 100 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:56.560 story from eighteen thirty seven, which also infamously is way 101 00:04:56.600 --> 00:04:57.920 more depressing than the cartoon. 102 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:00.160 It's much more of oh yeah, there's no song was 103 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:01.720 about thingham aboves and. 104 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:05.000 Yeah it's a dark old fairy tale where I believe 105 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:07.800 she dies at the end In the original Hans Christian. 106 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:09.360 Anderson, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, if 107 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:11.240 you got legs, now use them. 108 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:11.920 I don't know what that's. 109 00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:14.079 I just don't know how well you do in the water. 110 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:16.319 I don't remember, I never I don't know how the 111 00:05:16.360 --> 00:05:20.560 original

story at all. So the Ursula's scary versus scrivels 112 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:22.639 people up the eels and all that shit. 113 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:25.680 We'll talk about Ursula in a second, but the film 114 00:05:25.720 --> 00:05:28.120 The Little Mermaid basically established the modern image of what 115 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:30.360 a mermaid is. Even if you go to like pretty 116 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:32.079 much since the movie came out in eighty nine, so 117 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:34.600 let's say, since nineteen ninety. If you went to a 118 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:38.279 five and dime store and got a coloring book about mermaids, 119 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:41.079 the mermaid on the cover was basically aerial, but her 120 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:44.439 bra was you know, yellow seashells instead of purple, Like 121 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:46.839 she became the only mermaid. 122 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:48.680 No, Tody Benson, Jody Benson. 123 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:51.480 There you go, red hair, seashell bra, fishtail sings, the 124 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:54.439 seagulls wants to marry a prince. That's Mermaids as we 125 00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:57.160 think about it. And really it's about as accurate to 126 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:00.839 the original idea of Mermaids as if you like, remade 127 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:04.120 Saving Private Ryan and made the Nazis into smurfs or something. 128 00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:07.160 It's very far off from how Mermaids began. 129 00:06:07.720 --> 00:06:10.680 Yeah, but they they they killed it. It's like a 130 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:13.879 character design rules in that movie. Everything's really good. Yeah, 131 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:16.959 The Killer. I saw the cassette tape, the white cassette 132 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:18.600 tape for the like the soundtrack. 133 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:21.120 I saw a film print of it at what's the 134 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:23.879 theater that Disney own's on Hollywood Bulevard there El Capitan 135 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:26.720 copy Tan. I saw a print of it there, and 136 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:29.560 seeing it on the big screen, you could really see. 137 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:31.160 That it's probably see the boner. 138 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:33.759 Well, you can really see the hand drawn animation. You 139 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:36.600 can see the lines, oh yeah, you know, moving and like, 140 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:38.800 I don't think I'd ever seen a two D or 141 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:40.680 animated film projected that. 142 00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:43.279 Yeah, I don't think they would do for any kind 143 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:46.000 of CGS stuff until Beauty and the Beast with the 144 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:47.439 with the dancing in the ballroom. 145 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:49.759 That was the first big one. I want to say 146 00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:53.120 that they like tested the technology in an earlier film 147 00:06:53.240 --> 00:06:56.079 with like one shot or something, but yes, basically the 148 00:06:56.079 --> 00:06:56.959 ballroom and Beauty and. 149 00:06:56.959 --> 00:06:58.680 The Beast was the first was like, hey, we're doing 150 00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:00.600 this now. Do you remember that? It was either a 151 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:02.199 meme I probably talked about in the show before. It 152 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:05.879 makes me laugh, the idea that her bottom half is fish, 153 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:07.639 and so there was like it used to be like 154 00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:09.959 a meme or something that was like is Ariel's poop 155 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:12.959 just that like long fish string that like you know 156 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:13.920 how when fish poops? 157 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:16.399 Like that a long string that feels like something the 158 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:17.480 family guy would have done. 159 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:18.600 Yeah, well, I don't know if they did it in 160 00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:19.839 a thing. I'm just saying it was like a meme 161 00:07:19.959 --> 00:07:21.639 or something. At the time I had seen and I was. 162 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:23.319 Like, well that really it's pretty funny image. 163 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:25.240 It's a pretty funny image. But here's the thing. 164 00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:28.959 The giant family of wet things that look kind of 165 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:31.240 like a woman and want to kill you exists, and 166 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:34.439 basically every culture that has ever lived near a body 167 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:40.639 of water, the Greeks, Japanese, Slavs, West Africans, Caribbeans, Brazilian Scots, Irish, Filipinos, Inuits, 168 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:42.879 on and on and on. Every single one of those 169 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:45.120 creatures is terrifying in their own special way. 170 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:47.279 But Ariel was not like a siren. She has a 171 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:49.839 beautiful singing voice, but it's not she doesn't want to 172 00:07:49.879 --> 00:07:51.800 kill anyone. She wants She wants to. 173 00:07:51.800 --> 00:07:54.680 Dance, for sure, Well she wants to sing, I guess 174 00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:56.360 she wants to dance. She wants to fall in love. 175 00:07:56.600 --> 00:08:00.399 But that's part of what I wanted to dive in 176 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:04.079 to in this episode, is how we got from these 177 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:07.680 terrifying creatures that your parents basically told you about so 178 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:09.759 that you wouldn't go swimming alone at night or whatever. 179 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:11.480 No money in that, No money in that. 180 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:13.519 So today we are going to do a tour of 181 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:17.160 some of the original, pre sanitized Mermaids of a bunch 182 00:08:17.199 --> 00:08:19.240 of different cultures, and then in the back half of 183 00:08:19.240 --> 00:08:21.439 the episode, we're gonna look at the insanity of

how 184 00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:24.439 people in the West have been faking, hoaxing, and otherwise 185 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:27.199 stitching together mermaids for like two hundred years. 186 00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:28.720 Now. I saw one of them. So when we get 187 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:30.480 to that one, I can put up a picture of 188 00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:32.519 it onlines. I took that pictures with the illegal about it. 189 00:08:32.600 --> 00:08:34.960 What picture did you take the Fiji Mermaid? Oh yeah, 190 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:35.679 the museum. 191 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:37.919 Good, well, we'll get to the Fiji Mermaid. 192 00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:39.320 I made him into a sticker. 193 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:42.080 You did make him into a sticker. You did coming soon, 194 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:44.840 A scared all the time sticker pack. Keep your eyes peeled. 195 00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:50.120 So ed besides taking surreptitious photos of a Fiji mermaid. 196 00:08:49.799 --> 00:08:51.879 Not had a really good photo of video. 197 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:53.039 It's not the original. 198 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:55.759 I have a really good video of back in the day, 199 00:08:56.039 --> 00:08:59.519 Ariel from the movie Little Mermaid HM used to be 200 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:03.639 on street in Disneyland in a window at a store 201 00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:06.320 and she was an animatronic small it was only like 202 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:10.600 twelve fourteen inches and she maybe is combing her hair, 203 00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:14.320 It's unclear, but she rocks back and forth in whoever 204 00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:16.720 it was the worst. I don't know if they had 205 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:18.600 to rush it or if they only got to look 206 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:20.639 at a picture varial for like a minute and then 207 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:22.879 from memory had to do it. You had to do 208 00:09:22.960 --> 00:09:26.200 it because you add the rocking. It looked like an 209 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:30.200 ad about like don't do drugs, massed out. Her hair 210 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:33.559 was all like fuck nodded and like her, like her, 211 00:09:34.039 --> 00:09:36.080 like her kind of face was sunken in a little 212 00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:38.000 bit and she was rocking back and forth and just 213 00:09:38.039 --> 00:09:41.120 looked like dirty in the window. This is Disneyland, This 214 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:44.320 isn't right, This isn't a this is weird party. Yeah, 215 00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:47.039 there's like imagineers here and that's working on shit. And 216 00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:49.440 I have a great video from years and years ago 217 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:52.240 that it just really conveys that this is just like 218 00:09:52.279 --> 00:09:56.320 a drug add oled aerial in a window. And that's 219 00:09:56.360 --> 00:10:00.240 probably my first great Mermaid photo. My second I was 220 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:01.200 obviously getting. 221 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:03.840 The Fiji Mermaid phizby Mermaid, not the Fiji Murmaid. 222 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:06.440 Fuck me right, But Uh, yeah, I do think about 223 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:08.840 like they've since changed it, which means they've received my 224 00:10:08.919 --> 00:10:11.799 letters or they've heard about me talk about this. This 225 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:15.399 truly horrifying, Like this is supposed to be main Street Disney, 226 00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:18.799 not fucking Kensington. Well, we will look like this. 227 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:21.279 We will post that video to promote and find it 228 00:10:21.720 --> 00:10:23.759 if you can find it. So I guess that was 229 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:26.440 probably Have you ever been scared of any other mermaids 230 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:28.600 or just the meth one in the in the window? 231 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:31.639 I think I wasn't scared of the meth one, but 232 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:34.080 I was like, oh, look, what's become of aarial uh 233 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:37.960 huh spent enough time. I'm older now, she's older. Now. Yeah, 234 00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:41.000 we both took different paths and she ended up addicted 235 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:45.120 to fucking seaweed or something. But no, I wasn't afraid 236 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:46.720 of it. I'm not afraid of mermaids at all. I'm 237 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:47.799 not in the water ever. 238 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:52.720 Right, Yeah, it's it's We've we've discussed other water fears 239 00:10:52.759 --> 00:10:56.000 on this show a number of times, and most of 240 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:58.000 those keep us far enoughway from the water that we 241 00:10:58.039 --> 00:10:59.720 will never cross paths with the mermaid. 242 00:10:59.799 --> 00:11:02.159 Yeah. I will never see the bottom half of a mermaid. 243 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:05.039 I know I probably wouldn't see the top half. I'd 244 00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:06.080 be so far away from the water. 245 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:07.679 I'm just saying, even if I'm near the water and 246 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:09.879 like a lady, hey, what's up, I'd be like, please, 247 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:13.200 I'm just walking by right right. There's nothing you can 248 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:15.200 do or say. That's wait for the next guy. 249 00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:17.879 So when I was a kid, my Mermaid fear is 250 00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:22.039 that I was actually terrified of the ending of The 251 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:23.120 Little Mermaid. 252 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:25.279 Well with the shipwreck, stuck with the shipwreck, stuck at 253 00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:25.759 the end. 254 00:11:25.960 --> 00:11:28.639 I don't think this is a spoiler for anybody who 255 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.120 has eyes and ears years. At the end, Prince Eric 256 00:11:33.399 --> 00:11:36.799 defeats Ursula by by steering the broken bow of his 257 00:11:36.919 --> 00:11:39.960 ship into her and it

basically impales her. Although I 258 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:43.039 don't think super graphically on screen, but it's made very 259 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:45.240 clear that she has run through with the point the 260 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:45.960 end of this ship. 261 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:48.519 Did you see the live action one? No, neither, but 262 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:50.960 I wonder if it's still the same. Yeah, that's a 263 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:54.080 little more graphic live action. Maybe just see a lady 264 00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:55.360 getting a boat. 265 00:11:55.720 --> 00:11:58.759 It's really it's a really aggres I mean, even without 266 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:01.159 seeing it, there's there's the lighting in the storm and 267 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:04.039 it's like loud It's very intense and aggressive for the 268 00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:06.320 end of a Disney movie, and I think I was 269 00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:08.159 trying to think about this as I was writing the episode. 270 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:12.440 It's gotta be one of the more violent Disney villain deaths, 271 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:16.720 like Scar gets eaten by Hyena's off screen does, but 272 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:19.440 the joke is that everyone else falls, and I think 273 00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:22.320 most of them do. I couldn't think of any other 274 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:26.840 Disney villain that's really eaten it in an aggressively violent way. 275 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:29.480 Yeah, I don't think Jafar got that. 276 00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:31.600 I don't remember what happened to Jafar, but I don't 277 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:34.679 He wasn't beheaded with a scimitar or something like. 278 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:36.960 Did you see that thing? And then we're gonna stop 279 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:39.200 sangining Did you see the thing just recently of a 280 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:43.480 guy explaining how, like fucking Aladdin doesn't actually get any wishes? No, 281 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:47.960 but it was very about like dissecting everything he says. 282 00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:50.159 He never actually like gets anything he asks for. It 283 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:53.159 never actually like wishes. It's like kind of crazy. 284 00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:55.360 Well because he has to. I would say if anyone 285 00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:58.960 ever asked me to write a movie about a friendly 286 00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:01.080 genie who gives you the wishes that you asked for, 287 00:13:01.240 --> 00:13:03.559 as a screenwriter, that's kind of hard because you want 288 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:06.879 your characters to go on a journey that is hard 289 00:13:06.919 --> 00:13:09.559 for them and not just solved by making wishes for things. 290 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:11.519 Yeah, it was something where I forgot exactually the top 291 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:13.679 one now, but it was about like he's like, oh, 292 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:15.919 I want to be a prince or whatever, and I 293 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:18.720 do like a whole song and dance and blah blah blah, 294 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:20.399 and after he's like, oh, she needs to see the 295 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:21.960 real me. I forgot what it was, but they never 296 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:23.519 turned him into well. 297 00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:24.720 He marries a princess at the end. 298 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:26.759 Yeah, I don't know. If I find it, I'll post 299 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:28.399 it somewhere. It just made me laugh of like, oh, yeah, 300 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:30.159 you're right, he doesn't doesn't do any of those things. 301 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:33.679 I also will say the flip side to being terrified 302 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:36.200 of the Little Mermaid is that it did introduce me 303 00:13:36.279 --> 00:13:39.559 to my first redheaded crush, because I thought Ariel was 304 00:13:39.559 --> 00:13:42.519 probably the most beautiful woman I'd ever seen in my life. 305 00:13:42.759 --> 00:13:44.559 That's why I opened it saying, I do not know 306 00:13:44.600 --> 00:13:47.320 how old to that point that you don't bring this 307 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:48.919 up at all at any point, but here we are 308 00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:52.440 at that point in one half for one half of 309 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:52.919 the movie. 310 00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:56.159 Yeah, that's true. Also, when you're when you're three years old, 311 00:13:56.200 --> 00:13:58.440 you're really not thinking about the bottom. I was thinking 312 00:13:58.440 --> 00:13:59.320 about the top part. 313 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:02.600 If anything, a lady who pooped big long strings would 314 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:05.679 be like the perfect lady three to five years old. 315 00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:06.879 It's hilarious. 316 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:09.960 Unlike other cartoon crushes though, Like we've talked about other 317 00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:12.519 embarrassing cartoon crushes people have had on this show. 318 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:15.279 Yeah, mine's from Mine was a mouse. Was a lot 319 00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:18.679 of wrench wheel gadgets. Yeah, gidget, gadget gadget. 320 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:20.720 I am not the first person to say this, but 321 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:23.759 that whole run of Disney princesses in the early nineties 322 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:27.799 Bell was a baddie jasmine, Like forget about it, like 323 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:32.159 they were. Look, I'm not Zimba's girlfriend, Zimma's girlfriend. Anyway, 324 00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:34.440 while we're on the topic of myrrhmdia, I do have 325 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:37.159 to shout out Cabin in the Woods for probably the 326 00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:41.000 most accurate scary MIRR person ever put to film. It's 327 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:43.720 slimy and crawling and mostly mouthed. So if you want 328 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:46.720 to get a real good look at a real merrhman 329 00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:49.679 and

you're listening to the show and haven't seen Cabin 330 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:52.320 in the Woods. Please go watch it immediately. It's incredible. 331 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:54.159 Yes, it is a good movie, but I wouldn't be 332 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:55.720 surprised if they hadn't seen it. I felt like it 333 00:14:55.759 --> 00:14:58.799 had its moment and then it very much disappeared it shouldn't. 334 00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:00.480 I saw it in theaters and I joyed it, but 335 00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:02.440 I never revisited it. So I love it. 336 00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:05.200 I think it's brilliant. But the question that we want 337 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:07.799 to answer on this episode is how did we get 338 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:10.960 from the flesh eating monstrosity portrayed in Cabin in the 339 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:14.159 Woods two characters that wouldn't look out of place and 340 00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:19.879 often nowadays are found on anime body pillows. The first 341 00:15:19.879 --> 00:15:22.480 thing we have to understand is that the modern Mermaid 342 00:15:22.519 --> 00:15:26.200 is actually a combination of two different legends fish people 343 00:15:26.600 --> 00:15:29.919 in one bucket, maybe a literal bucket. You could have 344 00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:31.840 gone them and with them in a real bucket. Yeah, 345 00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:35.440 and sirens. You might be as surprised as I was 346 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:38.159 to learn that these two are not actually one and 347 00:15:38.200 --> 00:15:40.919 the same, or they weren't. They sort of became one 348 00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:43.840 and the same. But according to Mermaids of Earth dot 349 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:46.720 com oh finally, which I checked, there is no Mermaids 350 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:49.960 of Mars. I was curious to see Quote. The first 351 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:53.000 known mentioned human history of a human figure with a 352 00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:57.360 fish tail is from about five thousand BC, where Babylonian 353 00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:01.080 mythology of the god Aya described is having the body 354 00:16:01.159 --> 00:16:04.200 of both a man and a fish. Iow was later 355 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:07.159 known by the Greeks as Oanis and by some Semitic 356 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:13.039 tribes as Dagon. I also think is a villain in Lovecraft. Oh, 357 00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:16.039 but that kind of makes sense, I guess, because Lovecraft 358 00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:19.159 was infamously anti Semitic, So maybe he just stole the 359 00:16:19.240 --> 00:16:21.759 name and turned it into a villain. Anyway, over time, 360 00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:25.240 these early fish human deities evolved from symbolic sacred figures 361 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:29.480 into beings more recognizable as mermaids. The Assyrians and later 362 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:33.679 the Greeks Quote dramatically expanded and refined the concept of mermaids, 363 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:37.600 introducing se nymphs, ocean gods, sirens, and fishtailed beings that 364 00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:42.519 would deeply influence later Western depictions. Strangely, the other creature 365 00:16:42.679 --> 00:16:45.679 most influential to the modern mermaid was also Greek, but 366 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:50.519 had very little to do with the world of King Triton. No, 367 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:52.399 it's sirens, sirens. 368 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:54.720 I thought, We're just going, like, what else is half a. 369 00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:57.879 Thing in Homer's The Odyssey. Yeah, we all know the 370 00:16:57.879 --> 00:17:00.120 sirens call coming soon to a theater near you. 371 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:01.799 Oh fuck, is that what he's made? Nolan? 372 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:03.639 Chris Nolan, Yeah, he made the Odyssey. 373 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:04.720 It looks terrible. 374 00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:07.599 I want I really have no beef with Chris Nolan. 375 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:11.440 I don't love all shot trailer for Odyssey looks rough. 376 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:13.680 It does. I was shocked to see that it was 377 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:17.240 the first complete movie shot in Imaxcuse everything's always like 378 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:19.200 shot in Imax, shot four imax. 379 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:20.319 Right, but it's always ten minutes of it. 380 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:23.039 Yeah, I guess this is the first one begining, and 381 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:24.200 he's long enough. 382 00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:25.960 Probably the only way to see it, certainly, don't want 383 00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:29.480 to be watching it, I guess on airplane. Yeah, anyway. 384 00:17:29.559 --> 00:17:33.359 In the Odyssey, the Real Odyssey, Homer, the poet who 385 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:37.079 wrote it, mentions a dangerous creature that Odysseus crosses paths with, 386 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:41.640 something called a siren. He's first told about sirens by 387 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:45.359 a sorceress named Circe, who warns him about these creatures 388 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:48.880 in book twelve of the Odyssey, saying quote, whoever encounters 389 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:52.279 them unawares and listens to their voices will never joy 390 00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:54.119 at reaching home his wife. 391 00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:55.799 This whole thing is like, I gotta get home. 392 00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:59.279 Yeah, and and CIRs is telling him, you cross these sirens, 393 00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:01.599 you will never reach home, where your wife and children 394 00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:05.200 will never greet you. Instead, the sirens tempt him with 395 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:08.400 their limpid song as they sit there in the meadow 396 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:12.680 with a vast heap of moldering corpses bones on which 397 00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:17.400 hangs the shriveled skin. The voice of the siren, or 398 00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:20.359 as you just mentioned, the siren song, is

one of 399 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:23.400 these signature traits of what we now call a mermaid. 400 00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:26.599 And actually I'd never really thought about this before, but 401 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:30.400 kind of a brilliant thing to turn into an animated 402 00:18:30.759 --> 00:18:34.359 movie musical also singing aspect, and make it fun. 403 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:36.160 It's also why she wants it, Ursula. 404 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:40.759 That's true. Hour Yeah, yeah, maybe I might be. This 405 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:42.400 is how dumb we are on this show. I'm just 406 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:44.319 realizing this. And then my second thought was like, oh, 407 00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:46.799 I think maybe everybody else in the world already put 408 00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:49.279 two and two together on that, but I never really 409 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:49.960 thought about it. 410 00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:52.279 It's funny she does give up. It's a bad deal. 411 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:54.640 It's really bad, Like she gave up the super powerful 412 00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:58.000 thing to get legs that you can barely use Yeah, 413 00:18:58.039 --> 00:19:00.839 and the three days three days is not enough time 414 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:05.000 to figure out love sh Yeah, enough time to figure 415 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:06.920 out all the bottom half, Especially when. 416 00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:08.319 You're used to your poop coming out in a big, 417 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:12.480 long string and a sudden yeah, you've got human poop. 418 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:13.640 You don't want to be part of. 419 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:16.599 That world that is something like what just pooping while 420 00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:18.960 walking because you're so used to doing it while swimming? Yeah, 421 00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:20.240 that date ends poorly. 422 00:19:20.359 --> 00:19:22.599 M hmm, first date right down the drain. 423 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:24.160 I don't know. Men are dumb for all we know. 424 00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:26.559 It was fun, okay. But part of the reason, in 425 00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:29.559 my defense, part of the reason that I probably never 426 00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:31.440 put two and two together on this, is that the 427 00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:35.960 ancient Greek sirens are not fish people at all. They're 428 00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:39.480 bird people. From the waist up, they look like women, 429 00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:41.680 but from the waist down they look like birds. 430 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:44.359 That's that goose foot from the Christmas episode for al 431 00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:47.400 perkta Bertha. Shirt's no longer available. 432 00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:50.319 According to National Geographic That is because birds in ancient 433 00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:54.279 Greece were closely associated with death sirens. Bird legs and 434 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:57.599 wings show that they are liminal creatures who dwell betwixted

435 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:01.599 between their connection with the sea, which the ancient Greeks 436 00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:06.359 considered profoundly dangerous, and their wings situate them somewhere between 437 00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:11.319 earth and air. And in the original text, the song itself, 438 00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:15.319 it turns out, is not even seduction, which is something 439 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:17.640 I learned researching this episode, and it kind of blew 440 00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:21.799 my mind. The modern implication of the siren song is romantic. 441 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:26.039 That's what I always imagined, if not like explicitly sexual. Yeah, 442 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:27.759 but for all we know, it's like, come on down 443 00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:29.000 and get chicken wings. 444 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:30.960 Yeah, they were saying, you can call me al. 445 00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:32.559 I love that. 446 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:35.119 I really love that song growing up. 447 00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:35.960 I love it now. 448 00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:39.759 Emily Wilson, who's a classicist at the University of Pennsylvania 449 00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:42.680 and the first woman who published a complete English translation 450 00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:45.480 of the Odyssey, points out that what the sirens are 451 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:50.119 actually offering Odysseus is not sex. They are offering knowledge. 452 00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:52.599 They tell him they will sing him every secret of 453 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:56.440 the Trojan War, every glory of every Greek hero, everything 454 00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:59.079 that ever happened, and everything that's ever going to happen, 455 00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:01.559 which I think if you fall prey to that is 456 00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:05.240 a much nerdier death than falling prey to wanting to 457 00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:06.160 be laid. 458 00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:09.640 Isn't he a He was like a he was like 459 00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:12.160 in charge of the army. Yes, well, and so for him, 460 00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:14.599 it's like he wants to learn about like fucking tactics 461 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:17.559 and whatever. Also, is you don't want a trip on 462 00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:20.319 the way home, So if I can learn the best 463 00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:23.440 route to take the fastest route home, that's also maybe 464 00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:25.920 fuck these birds. I mean that's like a win win 465 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:26.519 win win win. 466 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:30.480 That's true, that's true. I guess I was imagining. Knowledge 467 00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:32.759 is more like I could be tempted if if a 468 00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:35.799 bird woman was like, I'll tell you what color feathers 469 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:38.559 your favorite dinosaur had, and I'd be like, I'm listening. 470 00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:40.599 Also, that's not even knowledge. It's just that's like a 471 00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:42.839 mentalist who could tell you something you already knew. 472 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:45.160 Well, we don't know what color feathers dinosaur has had. 473 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:47.920 I thought it, just thought. I thought you said that 474 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:51.119 they could tell you your favorite colored dinosaur. 475 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:52.720 No, no, no, no no, I was saying. 476 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:54.680 And there's like, no one's gonna guess purple. If they 477 00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:57.799 got that, then they too have the pot they've watched Barney. 478 00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:00.160 Oh fuck yeah, I never him. 479 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:04.079 So National Geographic tells us that quote sirens retained their 480 00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:06.799 bird bodies into the time of the Roman Empire and 481 00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:11.599 well beyond. Pliny the Elder includes them in The Fabulous Birds, 482 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:15.319 a section of his Natural History written around seventy seven AD, 483 00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:18.720 claiming they lull men to sleep with their song and 484 00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:21.559 tear them to pieces, though in Pliny's defense, he is 485 00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:23.480 skeptical that they actually exist. 486 00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:26.119 Sure, but I had a page count that I agreed to. 487 00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:28.960 Yeah, I had a due date in a page count. Yeah, 488 00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:32.160 fucking sirens are going the birds yep. Around the time 489 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:35.000 the Middle Ages, though there is a shift. A seventh 490 00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:38.880 or eighth century text called the Libre Monstroum describes a 491 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:42.279 siren with a fishtail. There's a Romanesque stone carving at 492 00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:44.960 Durham Castle Chapel from around ten to seventy eight that 493 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:47.880 shows a fishtailed mermaid in a Christian context. 494 00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:49.440 When did we get more into boats? 495 00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:50.799 I'm just a great question. 496 00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:53.799 I don't know. Like the bird thing might be people 497 00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:56.079 were walking a lot more prior to that, and then 498 00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:58.480 they look up and see a bird and they think, man, well. 499 00:22:58.359 --> 00:22:59.640 The Greeks were sailing around. 500 00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:01.920 I mean, yeah, they all lived on islands and shit. 501 00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:04.440 I'm just wondering, if you know more people are on 502 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:06.079 the water top of mind. 503 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:08.960 Well, there's there's a couple there's a couple of reasons 504 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:12.799 for some of this, But before they really combined, there 505 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:16.039 is a to me like potentially very funny few hundred 506 00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:19.759 years where both versions

kind of coexisted at the same time. 507 00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:22.480 So you had some people who were like bird siren 508 00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:24.880 people and some people who were fish siren people. 509 00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:27.599 Yeah, they're like these fish fuckers that are coming to 510 00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:30.079 our house. Yeah yeah, yeah, they get out of here. 511 00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:33.720 If only they'd had the Internet. The debates that could 512 00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:34.480 have been had. 513 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:36.039 Oh my god, every one of them ended in a. 514 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:38.839 Duel, but in the end the fish people won. 515 00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:39.559 Quote. 516 00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:42.319 That shift is probably thanks in part to the strong 517 00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:45.680 Greek and Roman tradition of unrelated sea gods like Triton, 518 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:48.839 as well as the sirens association with water, but it's 519 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:51.839 also thanks in no small part to the influence of 520 00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:57.000 Celtic folklore traditions. According to Marie Claire Bouleau, an associate 521 00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:01.400 professor of classical studies at Tufts University, this fusion represents 522 00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:05.880 a fascinating syncretism of cultures. She highlights a fourteenth century 523 00:24:05.960 --> 00:24:09.240 legend regarding the early Irish Christian saint Brendan the Navigator, 524 00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:13.759 whose voyages mirror those of Odysseus. I said, voyage is 525 00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:17.799 funny because in my mind I heard voyages of the Navigator. 526 00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:19.720 But really the movie is Flight of the Navigator. 527 00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:21.799 Oh, I heard voyage of the Memi, my brand, Voyage 528 00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:22.319 of the Memi. 529 00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:27.759 She highlights a fourteenth century legend regarding the early Irish 530 00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:31.640 Christian saint Brendan the Navigator, whose voyages mirror those of Odysseus. 531 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:35.000 In his own odyssey, Brendan meets a siren that modern 532 00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:41.319 viewers would instantly recognize as a mermaid. Sure, the story's nuts, though. 533 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:45.920 She's a fish woman who is harpooned by his men, 534 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:49.200 and then he revives her. It offers her the Eucharist 535 00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:52.960 before she accepts Christ's to comes to her wounds, and 536 00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:53.720 goes to heaven. 537 00:24:54.039 --> 00:24:57.079 Oh so he didn't save her, No, I mean in 538 00:24:57.079 --> 00:24:57.759 many ways he did. 539 00:24:57.799 --> 00:24:58.119 He did. 540 00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:00.000 In his mind he did. In his mind he did. 541 00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:01.960 But I think she would have enjoyed swimming a bit more. 542 00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:05.480 She probably was not psyched about getting harpooned and pulled 543 00:25:05.559 --> 00:25:06.720 upon a board a boat. 544 00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:09.240 Hey, you think the other mermaids in heaven. He's like, 545 00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:10.160 I have no idea. 546 00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.880 You're gonna find out about to find it ten minutes. 547 00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:18.519 I also wonder if boat people, if sailors and stuff 548 00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:22.599 water stuff seems like kind of like foo fighters and 549 00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:24.640 like the war in World War two where they had 550 00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:27.839 like goblins on plane, like pilots saw weird shit. I 551 00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:30.599 feel there's only two people who were coming back and 552 00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:32.519 being like, you wouldn't believe what I saw. And by 553 00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:34.519 the way, you can't verify any of it because you're 554 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:36.279 not in the sky, You're just a person doesn't fly. 555 00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:38.839 And then sailors, you're like gone for months at a 556 00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:41.640 time at sea, don't even see the land or anything, 557 00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:44.079 come back with all these crazy stories. Probably saw a 558 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:46.480 glowing jelly fish, thought it was a ghost. Yeah. Then 559 00:25:46.519 --> 00:25:48.440 they come back like we saw sirens or they were 560 00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:52.240 probably seals, and they get like drunk on rum and 561 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:55.200 then they like now these like big tall sea shanty 562 00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:58.160 tails and then everyone's like, no, I did I did 563 00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:01.000 see a mermaid? And then everyone on land and who 564 00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:03.359 was like, what the fuck are you talking about? 565 00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:06.160 We've never seen anything like anything like that. They're like, well, 566 00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:08.480 and so that's why we have a cooler job than you. 567 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:11.480 Yeah, so maybe I could see how a lot of 568 00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:14.559 like lore can come from people who are at seas. Yeah. 569 00:26:14.599 --> 00:26:17.240 Absolutely, I mean I think I think the reason that 570 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:21.079 so many seed dwelling or seafaring I guess not dwelling 571 00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:24.799 seafaring cultures came up with mermaid stories is, you know, 572 00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:28.920 we see what's what's the term paradoila or whatever. 573 00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:30.240 Yeah, when you see faces and stuff. 574 00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:33.240 Yeah, we see human form in many, many things. And 575 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:35.839 so I think, you know, it's not surprising to me 576 00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:38.599 that every culture would have some version of Yeah, you 577 00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:40.240 wouldn't believe what I saw out there. 578 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:42.960 And

speaking of cultures, you're only on a boat to 579 00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:47.319 like probably do some sort of trade. Yeah, and so hey, 580 00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:51.920 what stories get swapped? Yeah, like you're meeting totally different cultures. Yeah, 581 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:55.559 people who look like birds you want to fuck? Yeah. 582 00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:59.119 Well, however, the story is spread. By the nineteenth century, 583 00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:03.279 the link between sirens, mermaids, and the temptations they offered solidified, 584 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:07.000 as artists turned repeatedly to depicting these creatures with flowing 585 00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:11.559 hair and pale skin. A definitive example of the look 586 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:16.319 of these nineteenth century mermaids is a painting called the Siren, 587 00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:19.640 which you've probably seen before. It's I think it's a 588 00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:24.839 fairly well known Victorian era painting in which this beautiful 589 00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:28.279 young woman is kind of looking down upon shipwrecked sailors 590 00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:31.759 who appears, you know, kind of like entranced but also 591 00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:35.880 scared of what he's seeing. But not all cultures. That's 592 00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:38.559 a very European way still of looking at mermaids. Not 593 00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:41.640 all cultures viewed mermaids the same way. The rest of 594 00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:44.359 the world has their own descriptions of fish people with 595 00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:47.400 their own powers and tricks and cruelties waiting to be 596 00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:50.799 visited upon humans. So we do a lot of like 597 00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:53.319 Greek and Roman stuff. I figured we try to mix 598 00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:55.119 it up a little bit on this episode. So so 599 00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:59.119 many cultures have myrr people, and we'll start in Japan 600 00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:03.240 with the nan or human fish is literally what that 601 00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:07.319 translates to. It's important to distinguish the ningo from the 602 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:11.640 nime ghen, which is a well known newer Japanese cryptid 603 00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:15.599 described as a massive sixty to ninety foot aquatic humanoid 604 00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:18.920 that's like pale, pasty white and found in the freezing 605 00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:23.119 waters of the southern and Subantarctic oceans that cryptid was 606 00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:26.119 I believe, invented on a website called two chan and 607 00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:28.680 sort of like slender Man, sort of spread around. 608 00:28:28.839 --> 00:28:31.799 Okay, so there's no sea shanties about this, No, but 609 00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:32.559 there are. 610 00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:39.000 Presumably four the ningo according to the description of the 611 00:28:39.079 --> 00:28:42.359 ningo that gets repeated in Japanese sources, and I'm pulling 612 00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:45.319 here from Matthew Meyer's site Yokai dot com, which is 613 00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:48.079 the same resource on Japanese folklore that brought us tales 614 00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:51.920 of the little asset in kappas and a haunted Japanese doll. 615 00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:56.160 I think in our episode, the ningo has golden scales, 616 00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:00.920 a small monkey like mouth full of sharp teeth, no fingers, 617 00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:03.359 and a voice like a flute, which I think is 618 00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:06.799 kind of interesting that it's another voice based, pleasant voice 619 00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:07.559 kind of thing. 620 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:10.880 Dam without fingers, can't play a flute, No, definitely not. 621 00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:13.319 So you're not singing It'm doing. 622 00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:16.640 It, not playing guitar, not playing flute, not playing nothing. 623 00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:19.920 The ningo, in myth and legend are bad news. Catching 624 00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:22.839 one brings storms. A n ingo washing up on a 625 00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:26.720 beach is an omen of war. Basically, Japanese legend says, 626 00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:28.880 if you see a n inggo the correct response is 627 00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:31.480 to not tell anyone, do not capture it, throw it back, 628 00:29:31.559 --> 00:29:36.000 go home, forget about it. But interestingly, there is also 629 00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:38.799 a tradition that says if you actually eat the flesh 630 00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:42.799 of a ningo, you become immortal, which brings us to 631 00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:47.160 the story of Yao Bikuni. Yao Bikuni means roughly the 632 00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:50.480 eight hundred year old nun, and her story takes place 633 00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:53.440 in Wakasa Province, which is part of Japan on the 634 00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:56.880 Sea of Japan, around modern day Obama City, which is 635 00:29:56.960 --> 00:29:58.839 the actual name of the city and has nothing to 636 00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:00.400 do with President Obama. 637 00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:01.200 I don't know why it would. 638 00:30:01.519 --> 00:30:06.160 Yo kite yo kid dot com tells the story like this. 639 00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:09.640 Long ago in Wakasa Province, there lived a young woman, 640 00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:12.680 the daughter of a poor fisherman. One day, her father 641 00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:14.559 was invited to a banquet at the home of a 642 00:30:14.599 --> 00:30:17.279 wealthy man in town. He was led into the kitchen 643 00:30:17.319 --> 00:30:20.759 and shown the most unusual fish he'd ever seen. Its 644 00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:23.400 body was that of a fish, but its face was 645 00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:27.799 clearly that of a human being, just the face somehow worse. Also, 646 00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:29.920 the legend calls it a human being and not ash 647

00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:32.920 pointy tooth monkey man, but you know, we'll go with it. 648 00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:35.119 Yeah, they said the mouth is a little monkey as mouth. 649 00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:38.000 The fisherman was horrified, but his host insisted that the 650 00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:41.200 meat would grant whoever ate it eternal youth and long life, 651 00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:42.519 which is completely bullshit. 652 00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:45.279 Beyind like, why wouldn't you be the rich guy? Yeah? 653 00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:47.160 Out of I think maybe the rich guy wanted to 654 00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:49.519 find out what would happen if you ate it, Like 655 00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:53.839 the cup the chalice at the Endine Last Crusade. He 656 00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:55.759 didn't want to be the first one to take a bite, 657 00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:59.200 but out of curiosity, the fisherman secretly wrapped up a 658 00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:02.799 piece of this ningo to take home and study. When 659 00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:05.680 he returned home, he'd forgotten all about it. Somehow. 660 00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:06.839 That's ridiculous. 661 00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:09.799 The immortal fish meat that you brought with you. You 662 00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:12.599 stole that you stole You were like, oh, yeah, where 663 00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:13.359 did I put. 664 00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:15.359 That into that? I just have such a burning desire 665 00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:18.279 to always be stealing. But I actually forgot about it. 666 00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:23.039 But his daughter, only sixteen years old, found the package 667 00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:24.960 and ate the meat before he could stop her. 668 00:31:25.400 --> 00:31:27.599 I will say, in this case, they are a culture 669 00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:30.279 who enjoys raw fish meat. Yeah, but I'm not sure 670 00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:31.799 how you caught a fish so that it's okay to 671 00:31:31.839 --> 00:31:34.799 eat that way. So I don't know if they cooked 672 00:31:34.839 --> 00:31:36.400 it or if she just like took it from his 673 00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:37.200 pocket and ate it. 674 00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:39.000 I think she just took it from his pocket or 675 00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:41.799 wherever it was hidden and ate it. And turns out 676 00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:44.240 this rich guy was right on the money. 677 00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:47.720 It works. She lives eight hundred years forever. 678 00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:51.519 Her dad eventually dies, her husband dies, everyone around her dies. 679 00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:53.839 Does she grow old? No, so she just stays a 680 00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:54.279 little kid. 681 00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:56.559 She keeps living and living and living, she. 682 00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:57.279 Says, a little kid. 683 00:31:57.440 --> 00:31:58.920 Yeah. It just a beautiful letter. 684 00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:02.440 The letter in the nunnery. Well, yeah, so one of 685 00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:04.559 the nuns here is a child. No, I don't think 686 00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:06.839 that's weird. I mean married christ. 687 00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:12.079 I think back then sixteen was probably considered. You know, 688 00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:15.680 you were a young woman making her way in the world. 689 00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:18.920 You know, people were dying at thirty, so when you 690 00:32:18.920 --> 00:32:19.920 were middle aged, I don't know. 691 00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:21.480 If anyone was ever dying at thirty in Japan. 692 00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:24.240 Well, the part of the story that is really scary 693 00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:27.039 and touches on something we've talked about on this show before. 694 00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:30.319 Although yes, the human headed fish is very gross, the 695 00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:35.359 horror is that the gift of immortality becomes isolation. She 696 00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:38.720 watches every single person she loves die, and then every 697 00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:42.000 person they love dies, and eventually the world kind of 698 00:32:42.039 --> 00:32:45.200 stops making sense because every cultural reference point you grew 699 00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:47.759 up with goes away and you just keep living. So 700 00:32:47.839 --> 00:32:50.319 Yao Bikuni lives for eight hundred years. She becomes a 701 00:32:50.359 --> 00:32:54.200 Buddhist nun. She wanders Japan does good works, because what 702 00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:54.839 else are you going to do? 703 00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:56.400 At this point, I guess she didn't marry christ I 704 00:32:56.440 --> 00:32:56.920 take it back. 705 00:32:57.119 --> 00:32:59.240 Yeah, well, yeah, that's also true. You were thinking, you 706 00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:04.160 were thinking, like wearing no different kind of none, And 707 00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:06.359 she kind of left this trail of legends behind her. 708 00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:08.880 There's towns all across Japan that have their own Yao 709 00:33:08.920 --> 00:33:12.559 Bikuni story, a local site where she stopped, a temple 710 00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:15.640 that has a relic of hers. The story ends like this. 711 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:19.079 After hundreds of years, Yao Bikuni grew weary of the world. 712 00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:21.200 I would not have taken hundreds of years to grow 713 00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:23.599 weary of the world. I'm about to turn forty, and 714 00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:26.279 I am very weary of the world. So she has 715 00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:30.160 a stronger spine than I do. She retired in Wakasa 716 00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:33.000 Province and took up residence in a cave. There, she 717 00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:35.240 prayed day and night to be free of her curse. 718 00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:37.880 She never moved from the cave, and eventually she sat 719 00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:40.559 for so long that she turned into stone. It is 720 00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:42.799 said that in

one of the caves around Wakasa, there 721 00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:45.559 stands a stone that looks just like a beautiful young woman. 722 00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:50.839 Okay, how much like dangerously like yeah, like I want 723 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:51.920 to I want to make sure. 724 00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:55.039 Well, look, there's a reason no one's given directions to 725 00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:56.039 the cave, all right. 726 00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:57.880 I just meant that I want to see it and 727 00:33:57.880 --> 00:34:00.119 make sure it's not just rock shaped. Yeah, And then 728 00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:03.559 everyone's like, you see it like a rock? Yeah? I 729 00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:06.000 want to if I see a lady who looks like 730 00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:09.679 a terra cotta pot whatever the hell that th Littlectta 731 00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:12.679 soldiers all different, you know, country. But I'm saying, you 732 00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:14.039 look at that and you're like, that's a man. 733 00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:14.800 Yeah. 734 00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:17.239 But if it's just like a you know, a paradoila 735 00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:18.519 ass rock, yeah. 736 00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:21.719 So that's the Japanese Mermaid story. 737 00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:22.599 I thought they'd have more. 738 00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:25.800 Honestly, well that, I mean, there's there are to me, 739 00:34:25.960 --> 00:34:28.679 that's the most interesting twist on the Mermaid story. I 740 00:34:28.719 --> 00:34:31.000 guess in Japanese culture, the n NGO have lots of 741 00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:33.559 legends in myth, but I like the there there aren't 742 00:34:33.559 --> 00:34:36.119 any other mermaids stories that I'm aware of that eating 743 00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:38.400 their flesh grants you immortality, So I thought that was 744 00:34:38.440 --> 00:34:39.920 a particularly But also. 745 00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:43.119 By the way, had no interaction with anyone. This guy's like, hey, 746 00:34:43.159 --> 00:34:44.000 I found this fit. 747 00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:46.159 Yeah, well it's kind of Actually when I read it, it 748 00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:49.239 reminded me a little bit of Gremlins. It's like a dad, 749 00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:52.000 you know, a kind of blue collar dad takes something 750 00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:54.239 he probably I mean he buys it in Gremlins, but 751 00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:56.800 he probably shouldn't take gives it to the kid. In 752 00:34:56.840 --> 00:34:57.760 this case, she steals, you. 753 00:34:57.719 --> 00:34:59.239 Know what I'm saying. Even the rich guys, I don't 754 00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:01.599 know where he got that fit. We know nothing about 755 00:35:01.639 --> 00:35:03.360 this fish. There was no moment where it was like 756 00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:06.000 let me live in a grunts you and then they 757 00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:06.400 kill it. 758 00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:06.760 Yeah. 759 00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:09.519 It was just like, hey, look I got a got 760 00:35:09.559 --> 00:35:12.159 a fucking weird fish. I want to eat it. This 761 00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:14.159 could be something you eat a little bit of. Yeah, 762 00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:15.400 you know what I mean. It was just like where'd 763 00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:17.239 you get that fish? Like if you tell me all 764 00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:20.960 that shit about fucking ningos or whatever. I never would 765 00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:21.599 have well, it is. 766 00:35:21.639 --> 00:35:23.599 It is an ingo in the story, although I guess 767 00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:25.440 I do find it kind of interesting that the dad 768 00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:29.119 wasn't like gasp, but that's he's just like, yikes, what 769 00:35:29.239 --> 00:35:31.840 happened to that fish? Why does it have a human head. 770 00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:32.559 With a monkey mouth? 771 00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:33.480 The monkey mouth? 772 00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:35.880 The meat is very tender. Don't worry about that monkey 773 00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:38.719 see monkey ski? Do there might be something in that 774 00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:40.639 the jet ski? Yeah? 775 00:35:41.320 --> 00:35:44.480 Water based, I don't know. This is the second podcast 776 00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:48.119 we're recording today. So from Japan, we're gonna swing down 777 00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:54.000 to West Africa to meet Mammy Wata. Mammy Wata is complicated. 778 00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:58.199 She is the water deity of basically the entire West 779 00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:01.519 and Central African coast, which includes a lot of land 780 00:36:01.639 --> 00:36:02.559 and a lot of countries. 781 00:36:02.599 --> 00:36:04.039 Don't think I met her when I was in Ghana. 782 00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:05.480 You may have. 783 00:36:06.039 --> 00:36:10.960 Her name is some people say pigeon English, which Mami 784 00:36:11.039 --> 00:36:14.920 Wata meaning mother water. And that alone tells you something 785 00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:17.960 important about where she comes from, which is that kind 786 00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:22.159 of collision zone of African beliefs in European trade contact 787 00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:26.599 and the Transatlantic slave trade. She's depicted as a mermaid 788 00:36:26.840 --> 00:36:29.360 or as a beautiful woman holding a giant snake, or 789 00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:33.440 sometimes both. Sometimes her bottom half is fish, sometimes her 790 00:36:33.480 --> 00:36:36.519 bottom half is snake. Some people say her name is 791 00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:40.159 indicative of pigeon English, but some say that derives actually 792 00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:43.559 from the Egyptian words Mama meaning truth or wisdom and 793 00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:48.199 uatur meaning ocean. Okay, according to an article I found 794 00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:51.000 about Mama Wata on ebsco, which is just like a 795 00:36:51.079 --> 00:36:55.039 research site, she quote embodies duality, serving as both a

796 00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:59.400 symbol of fortune and a potential harbinger of misfortune. Part 797 00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:01.320 of why these rays or so all over the place 798 00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:05.000 is that Mammy Wata is not just one lady, It's 799 00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:07.840 a whole family of water spirits. This is a tradition 800 00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:11.280 that stretches back to ancient African civilizations from around forty 801 00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:15.000 five hundred BC, and when the slave trade forcibly moved 802 00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:18.800 people across the ocean, Mammi Wata went with them, creating 803 00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:22.599 this African diaspora that carried water spirits to the Caribbean 804 00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:26.840 and South America. So in the classic myths, Mammi Wata 805 00:37:26.920 --> 00:37:28.480 is basically a kidnapper. 806 00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:29.119 Okay. 807 00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:33.639 She snatches people, men, women, kids, doesn't really matter who 808 00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:35.119 get too close to the water. 809 00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:38.280 Okay, I didn't even want to sing, No, no singing 810 00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:40.719 at all. Now this one has fingers and they're grabbing 811 00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:41.199 you with them. 812 00:37:41.480 --> 00:37:45.920 Yeah, exactly, exactly. She's she's she's warming up to play 813 00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:48.320 flute and she's ready to snatch. 814 00:37:48.519 --> 00:37:49.159 Yeah. Yeah yeah. 815 00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:53.239 Sometimes when she's grabbing humans off the land, she's looking 816 00:37:53.239 --> 00:37:57.280 for a consort, dragging a man down to her underwater 817 00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:00.320 kingdom or a spirit plane to see if he's worthy 818 00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:04.199 of her oh wow. Other times she's just passing judgment. 819 00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:07.519 Sometimes you just grabbed a person to be like, hey, 820 00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:11.920 are you cool enough to hang? And if she decided 821 00:38:11.960 --> 00:38:14.440 you're worthy of her favor, you might get sent back 822 00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:17.960 to the surface with any number of gifts, from spiritual 823 00:38:18.039 --> 00:38:21.719 enlightenment to wealth or a higher social status. And it 824 00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:24.920 was often said that you returned to the surface more 825 00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:27.480 beautiful than when you were pulled beneath the waves. Oh 826 00:38:27.880 --> 00:38:30.480 little glow up, nice little glow up, a nice little bonus. 827 00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:35.880 But if you weren't judged positively, you were drowned and eaten. Okay, 828 00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:38.719 well you stayed there forever, whether she devoured you whole 829 00:38:38.840 --> 00:38:42.920 or whatever, you were fucked. But there was this flip 830 00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:46.000 side of the coin. Now, there is no Little Mermaid 831 00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:51.079 siren song

singing association with Mami Wata, but there is 832 00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:53.400 something else that I thought was kind of interesting that 833 00:38:53.559 --> 00:38:58.320 does have sort of a little Mermaid aerial connection. Whether 834 00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:00.599 or not the people who made little were made we're 835 00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:03.440 at all aware of this, I don't know. But two 836 00:39:03.559 --> 00:39:08.199 of the objects commonly associated with Mommy Wata are combs 837 00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:08.920 and mirrors. 838 00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:11.119 Hey, and you know. 839 00:39:11.239 --> 00:39:14.719 Ariel has a collection of stuff. She has the dingle hopper, 840 00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:16.920 which is the fork that she uses as a. 841 00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:21.719 Cume just think, which is like a wine opener or whatever. 842 00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:25.199 Yeah, she is, and what's its galore? And I guess 843 00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:27.880 my point is just that it's interesting that, like, trinkets 844 00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:31.480 are part of Mammy Watta's whole thing, and Ariel has 845 00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:35.440 a collections arinket, a grotto of. 846 00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:38.760 Yeah, grottos. 847 00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:43.719 Now, Mommy Watsas were usually just these combs and mirrors 848 00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:46.440 that she would use sort of as a trap. In 849 00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:49.719 some tales, she'll be sitting by the water basically just 850 00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:52.199 brushing her hair and looking in the mirror, but if 851 00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:55.719 someone approaches, she jumps back into the water and leaves 852 00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:01.039 the objects behind. If this person was a thief, and 853 00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:04.280 picked them up and took them away. She would start 854 00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:06.000 to haunt that person's dreams. 855 00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:09.760 That's entrapment. It really, there was no one here. 856 00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:13.320 If I find I'm sorry if I find anything on 857 00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:16.639 a beach, especially if there's no one around and it's 858 00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:21.320 not in a backpack finders keepers, it's just loose items. Yeah, 859 00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:26.039 it feels, it feels a little intensely. This is like 860 00:40:26.440 --> 00:40:31.679 Old Testament intensely judgmental spirit being to be like, oh, 861 00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:32.519 you want to take my shit? 862 00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:35.639 Might be picking up bring it to loss and found. 863 00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:39.000 Yeah, well she knew she would know where it ended up, 864 00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:41.719 because if you took it home, she would haunt your 865 00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:43.679 dreams trying to get it back, just your dreams. 866 00:40:43.880 --> 00:40:46.039 Well, she doesn't come on land like a sea hag. 867 00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:50.719 Well, careful you're calling a hag, buddy,

Mammy Wanta will 868 00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:51.559 not take kindly. 869 00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:56.079 It is well, I mean, yeah, see which whatever. This 870 00:40:56.239 --> 00:40:57.039 was also. 871 00:40:56.760 --> 00:41:00.239 Another way though, of working deals, which is something that 872 00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:01.360 Mommy Watsa seems to. 873 00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:03.000 Do a lot interest into bartering. 874 00:41:03.159 --> 00:41:05.679 There's a there's if not bartering, there's at least the 875 00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:06.760 good version there. 876 00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:07.159 You get. 877 00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:10.440 It's like that, it's like a resident evil game there's 878 00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:12.360 the good ending and the bad ending, right, like, if 879 00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:16.159 you play things right, you'll get rewarded. So while she's 880 00:41:16.159 --> 00:41:18.519 haunting your dreams, she wants her things back, but she 881 00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:21.440 wants a deal. If you give back her treasure and 882 00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:24.920 promise to be faithful to her, you get unbelievable luck 883 00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:25.519 and treasure. 884 00:41:25.599 --> 00:41:27.960 What is faithful me? And I need to see the contract? Yes, 885 00:41:28.039 --> 00:41:29.719 I mean, I don't know what I have to pray 886 00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:31.400 to you. I gotta go in there and do other 887 00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:32.320 weird shit in the water. 888 00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:36.199 I think it is more of a prayerful faithfulness, a 889 00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:39.320 belief in her, a trusting in her. I don't know 890 00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:42.079 that you necessarily have to give her anything else. Maybe 891 00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:44.960 she starts asking for bodies at some point. That wasn't 892 00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:48.000 in any of the literature blackmails. 893 00:41:48.159 --> 00:41:51.000 I'm gonna tell everybody you fucking steal combs, your comb 894 00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:53.599 stealing piece of shit, unless you give me a bunch 895 00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:54.400 of more combs. 896 00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:58.320 But if you refuse to return her property, or you 897 00:41:58.400 --> 00:41:59.599 don't show her there's my. 898 00:41:59.559 --> 00:42:02.039 Comb now, the respect idiot she's owed. 899 00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:07.719 If you don't show her the respect she's owed as 900 00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:11.840 a water goddess, she will rain punishments upon you. So 901 00:42:12.199 --> 00:42:15.400 you know again, I think not only is it a 902 00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:18.079 little bit entrapmant to leave your stuff on the beach 903 00:42:18.159 --> 00:42:20.880 and be like, what are you doing my stuff? Also 904 00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:23.519 that being a way for her to then come to 905 00:42:23.559 --> 00:42:26.480 you and be like, hey, give my stuff back. It's 906 00:42:26.480 --> 00:42:28.840 like she's forcing a deal that you never really even 907 00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:29.360 want it. 908 00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:32.920 Really, it's it's it's toxic traits. It is, it is. 909 00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:36.119 It's a little mafia and yeah, it's a very black man. 910 00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:38.760 Be ashamed of something happened to your place here kind 911 00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:39.239 of a thing. 912 00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:41.159 I would hold up that mirror I just found on 913 00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:43.440 the beach to her and be like, I'm gonna show 914 00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:46.920 you someone's being unreasonable. I hold it up to her face. 915 00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:51.639 Besides these elements of her myth that you don't find 916 00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:54.880 in a lot of other Mermaid tales, one of the 917 00:42:54.920 --> 00:42:57.320 other things that I really think is fascinating about Mommy 918 00:42:57.400 --> 00:43:00.440 Wata and probably makes her one of one of the 919 00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:04.320 most powerful, at least living Mermaid traditions on Earth in 920 00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:06.960 sense not in the sense that she is literally alive, 921 00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:11.199 but that the myth continues. Is because of this traveling 922 00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:15.800 through the diaspora, she has shown up in different cultures 923 00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:19.480 as different beings, I mean all rooted back to the 924 00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:23.440 same thing. So when Haiti, she became La Serene, who 925 00:43:23.480 --> 00:43:26.880 shows up in voodoo ceremonies. In Cuba, she got fused 926 00:43:26.920 --> 00:43:30.199 with Yamaya, the Santa Ria ocean goddess. In Brazil she 927 00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:33.119 became Le Manja, who is still honored on New Year's 928 00:43:33.159 --> 00:43:35.360 Eve when millions of people in white go to the 929 00:43:35.360 --> 00:43:38.559 beach and float candles and flowers out into the surf. 930 00:43:38.719 --> 00:43:43.000 What about that see which the Spanish one or the 931 00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:45.599 Mexican one that we talked about that one time where 932 00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:49.519 like she like calls little kids into the water. Well, 933 00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:51.519 there's Liarona, That's probably what I'm thinking of. 934 00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:55.119 But that that's not a mermaid she no, although. 935 00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:57.519 She it's like a weeping woman who check her out. 936 00:43:57.800 --> 00:44:01.280 Li Yourona is sort of like a between sort of 937 00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:03.920 a water being in a ghost story. It's it's always 938 00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:06.639 the story of a woman whose children drowned or sometimes 939 00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:07.440 she drowned with them. 940 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:09.760 Think a woman in the water. Yeah, it's like a 941 00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:11.639 little trickster. I don't want to and one other, you 942 00:44:11.639 --> 00:44:13.840 know what I mean, leave their shit there,

don't check 943 00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:15.039 up on them, do not. 944 00:44:15.400 --> 00:44:19.280 There's a there was actually a Slavic woman water spirit 945 00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:21.280 that I ended up leaving out because they didn't feel 946 00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:25.360 she was traditionally enough a mermaid for this episode. But 947 00:44:25.960 --> 00:44:29.320 in some cases in Slavic tradition, she was portrayed as 948 00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:33.320 a literal fish person. They had a variety of different 949 00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:36.440 skin colors, like like green and blue and stuff, and 950 00:44:36.519 --> 00:44:38.840 she would actually sort of like tickle her victims to 951 00:44:38.920 --> 00:44:41.559 death because her hair would like wrap around them and 952 00:44:41.559 --> 00:44:44.199 then they would drown because they were like being tickled. 953 00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:46.679 So there was there's lots of but I felt like 954 00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:50.280 she was more of like a water spirit than a mermaid. 955 00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:51.880 I think there's a bit of a difference. 956 00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:55.920 What's Slavic? What are those? What countries are those in 957 00:44:55.920 --> 00:45:01.519 the former Soviet Union, like or Baltic Baltic basically Croatia 958 00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:03.159 and water, isn't it? 959 00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:07.960 Yeah, it's the Russalka is or the Russalki is the 960 00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:11.599 water nymph. And there's actually I forget which country it is. 961 00:45:11.960 --> 00:45:14.880 One of the countries that she has a history in. 962 00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:19.840 They have a festival where they like drown a tree 963 00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:22.639 every year in her honor. They like dress up a tree. 964 00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:25.639 It sounded very midsummar. We gotta go and they throw 965 00:45:25.719 --> 00:45:26.559 the tree in the water. 966 00:45:26.920 --> 00:45:28.199 The country is it. We gotta go. 967 00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:32.400 Hold on, let's see, I'll does I'll do some live 968 00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:33.800 producing here. Let's see. 969 00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:37.800 We'll go. Don't let us in, we won't get midsommar. Yeah. 970 00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:41.599 Green Week Slavic cultures, so any of the sort of 971 00:45:41.639 --> 00:45:46.440 like different Russian cultures who celebrate Rusalka week or Green 972 00:45:46.519 --> 00:45:49.400 Week falls in early June. Bathing in open bodies of 973 00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:51.719 water during this week is strictly forbidden. 974 00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:52.679 Oh perfect. 975 00:45:52.840 --> 00:45:55.559 The tree ritual is that during the festivities, a young 976 00:45:55.599 --> 00:45:59.559 birch tree is decorated with ribbons and garlands. Young women 977 00:45:59.639 --> 00:46:02.800 sing ants and leave offerings like bread and hard boiled eggs, 978 00:46:03.119 --> 00:46:04.760 and then at the end of the week, the villagers 979 00:46:04.760 --> 00:46:08.360 would ceremonially banish the spirits by cutting down or drowning 980 00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:09.400 the decorated tree. 981 00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:12.760 We gotta go, we gotta go. Don't go dress like 982 00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:16.760 trees want to Yah, we're not. I know how to 983 00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:18.440 say water, I know how to say fish and Russian. 984 00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:21.599 Will be fine, it'll be great. That's how you say fish. 985 00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:22.639 Very fun word. What is it? 986 00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:23.840 Whatba? 987 00:46:24.360 --> 00:46:26.239 It's like it's like an ad, It's like a riba, 988 00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:28.599 but it's it's this riba like there's no, okay, it's 989 00:46:28.599 --> 00:46:31.400 no on the beginning, it's like a rolled and then 990 00:46:31.599 --> 00:46:34.480 water is vada. It's very simple. It's the derivative of 991 00:46:34.880 --> 00:46:38.039 vodka is a derivative of water. That's how we get that. 992 00:46:38.119 --> 00:46:40.639 The things this man knows, I don't know top of 993 00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:42.760 the dome, but I don't know. He doesn't research for 994 00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:43.239 this show. 995 00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:45.400 No, but I don't know how to get to this party. 996 00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:51.199 We'll find out. Back to Mammi Wata. The detail that 997 00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:53.599 stuck out to me the most though, that I think 998 00:46:53.719 --> 00:46:58.320 is just indicative of this this very from all corners 999 00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:02.199 of the world kind of create the myth of mammy Wata. 1000 00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:04.880 Well, the slave trade went a lot of places. Well yeah, yeah, 1001 00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:06.639 you were saying, and it's nice to have a water 1002 00:47:07.159 --> 00:47:10.079 entity with you because they were moved on ships, so 1003 00:47:10.119 --> 00:47:13.079 it could literally travel along these ships with you. Yeah. 1004 00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:17.840 I mean this the slave trade definitely is is how 1005 00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:18.920 this myth spread. 1006 00:47:18.920 --> 00:47:20.639 But I guess I think I might have definitely met 1007 00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:23.039 one because I went to Cape Coast, which is like 1008 00:47:23.079 --> 00:47:26.280 the birthplace of the American slave trade in Ghana, and 1009 00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:28.840 I felt very uncomfortable. Yeah, and then people were like 1010 00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:31.559 don't feel uncomfortable. This is our history, not yours. And 1011 00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:34.960 I was like interesting. They were like, hey man, about 1012 00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:38.880 you absolved of this feeling. But yeah, so that means that. 1013 00:47:38.920 --> 00:47:41.920 But it's right on the water, it's like right where 1014 00:47:41.960 --> 00:47:45.119 the you know where people yea. And so it was 1015 00:47:45.199 --> 00:47:46.840 like if I

was ever going to see when it 1016 00:47:46.840 --> 00:47:47.480 would have been there. 1017 00:47:47.639 --> 00:47:51.840 Yeah. So to return to Mammy Wata for for just 1018 00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:55.360 a moment. One of the details about her story that 1019 00:47:55.559 --> 00:47:59.400 just strikes me is so indicative of the way this 1020 00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:02.960 this deity, this legend, this myth means so much to 1021 00:48:03.039 --> 00:48:07.360 so many different people and wears so many different pieces 1022 00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:12.760 of different cultures. Is that the traditional, the image of 1023 00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:15.880 Mami Wata that we call traditional that gets worshiped today 1024 00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:20.920 is this long haired snake charming mermaid, right, Okay, yeah, 1025 00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:25.480 but that image and the uh, what's not legacy the 1026 00:48:26.239 --> 00:48:29.119 way you trace this back through histel lineage. The lineage 1027 00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:31.360 of this story is a little all over the place, 1028 00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:35.559 and there's slightly different versions of the story. But basically 1029 00:48:36.280 --> 00:48:39.079 this image of her that has become the image of 1030 00:48:39.159 --> 00:48:45.159 Mami Wata isn't even the initially West African image of her. 1031 00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:50.119 That image traces back to a German chromo lithograph from 1032 00:48:50.159 --> 00:48:54.400 the eighteen eighties of an Indian snake charmer named Nala 1033 00:48:54.519 --> 00:48:59.559 Damashanti who performed in Hamburg. The image got reprinted on 1034 00:48:59.599 --> 00:49:03.639 a night teen fifties Indian calendar that circulated through trade 1035 00:49:03.679 --> 00:49:07.199 networks in West Africa, and when Africans saw the image, 1036 00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:11.440 they recognized it as Mammy Wata Wow and adopted it as. 1037 00:49:11.360 --> 00:49:15.039 Her visit official portrait. Okay they call it. 1038 00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:18.719 So the most powerful African water goddess on the planet 1039 00:49:18.840 --> 00:49:22.639 is iconographically descended from a poster of a German snake 1040 00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:24.639 charming act that traveled through Bombay. 1041 00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:27.440 Thats really that's the global economy. 1042 00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:32.159 Yeah, and we some of this I pulled from a 1043 00:49:32.239 --> 00:49:36.719 Smithsonian piece that was about an art exhibit. The Smithsonian 1044 00:49:36.760 --> 00:49:39.480 piece is about an art exhibit that was about Mammi 1045 00:49:39.519 --> 00:49:42.760 Wata in two thousand and nine. And the curator of 1046 00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:46.159 this museum piece was Henry John Drul who is a 1047 00:49:46.679 --> 00:49:50.360 UCLA art historian and basically the world's authority on this stuff. 1048 00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:54.559 And he sort of this is I think, his version 1049 00:49:54.679 --> 00:49:57.920 of how this legend came to be. But he has 1050 00:49:57.960 --> 00:50:00.679 a great line about why Mommy Wata to works the 1051 00:50:00.679 --> 00:50:05.159 way she does. He says, people who worship her often 1052 00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:09.239 also worship Christian or Muslim or other gods. The way 1053 00:50:09.239 --> 00:50:12.440 he sees the reason they worship her is they see 1054 00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:17.360 it as multiple insurance policies. So that's the story of 1055 00:50:17.480 --> 00:50:20.840 Mammy Wata we want to all right, So the last 1056 00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:23.679 place that I want to stop on our worldwide tour 1057 00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:27.000 of Mermaids, although again we are just scratching the surface 1058 00:50:27.079 --> 00:50:29.559 really of all the different mermaid type creatures that are 1059 00:50:29.559 --> 00:50:32.119 out there, but one I wanted to touch on, even 1060 00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:34.599 though I know I was just saying earlier, I was 1061 00:50:34.639 --> 00:50:37.239 trying to focus more on sort of like creatures that 1062 00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:40.079 we're seeing as sort of flesh and blood monsters or 1063 00:50:40.119 --> 00:50:44.639 creatures and less water spirits. Okay, but there is one 1064 00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:47.760 in the Arctic, which is a place we rarely go 1065 00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:49.639 on this show. We don't spend a lot of time 1066 00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:51.920 looking at things that take that are from the Arctic. 1067 00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:55.360 Cold snow blindness too, cold snowblindness. We haven't done an 1068 00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:57.920 episode on polar bears. If we ever do, I'm sure 1069 00:50:57.920 --> 00:51:01.199 we'll spend some more time there. But I want to 1070 00:51:01.239 --> 00:51:05.800 go up to the Arctic to talk about the Inuit 1071 00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:10.840 deity named Sedna. She is worshiped from northern Alaska, across 1072 00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:15.039 Canada and into Greenland, and she is basically the mother 1073 00:51:15.159 --> 00:51:19.920 of the sea. Every seal, every walrus, every narwhale, every whale, 1074 00:51:20.039 --> 00:51:24.639 every fish that swims north of somewhere about the sixtieth 1075 00:51:24.719 --> 00:51:29.599 parallel or so. All of those animals are her. They 1076 00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:34.000 are Sedna in the sense that they came from her body. Oh, 1077 00:51:34.039 --> 00:51:37.280 although not like a baby would come from your body. 1078 00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:39.159 That just peel them off almost literally. 1079 00:51:39.280 --> 00:51:43.199 Yes, the way in which Sedna's body created all of 1080 00:51:43.239 --> 00:51:47.119 these animals that swim around in the Great White North 1081 00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:52.000 is really pretty horrific and fits well with the tone 1082 00:51:52.039 --> 00:51:53.000 of scaret all the dime. 1083 00:51:53.079 --> 00:51:53.239 OK. 1084 00:51:53.480 --> 00:51:56.519 So I'm pulling

here from a version of her story 1085 00:51:56.559 --> 00:51:59.639 posted on Guide to Greenland, which was written by a 1086 00:51:59.719 --> 00:52:05.159 Danish anthropologist named Christina Gamborg Holmea. This version of the 1087 00:52:05.159 --> 00:52:08.159 story goes that Sedna was a beautiful young woman and 1088 00:52:08.199 --> 00:52:11.480 a skilled hunter who refused every marriage proposal that her 1089 00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:16.400 father sent her way. Her father, fed up eventually banished 1090 00:52:16.400 --> 00:52:20.480 her to an abandoned island until she would accept somebody. 1091 00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:24.320 This is the beginning of Sedna's father treating her in 1092 00:52:24.360 --> 00:52:27.599 ways that I feel categorize him as a bad father. 1093 00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:30.239 Okay, it was different time, I understand. 1094 00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:33.840 Different time, and we ostensibly are to believe that. You know, 1095 00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:37.079 Sedna's father cared enough about her that he wanted her 1096 00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:39.119 to be set up with a great life, but didn't 1097 00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:42.320 care so much that she loved the man who would 1098 00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:45.440 be her partner. So he sends her to this island. 1099 00:52:45.719 --> 00:52:48.320 She lives there alone for a while, and then one 1100 00:52:48.400 --> 00:52:51.800 day a handsome hunter shows up out of nowhere, a 1101 00:52:51.880 --> 00:52:58.519 real ed vocolas he shows up, and he promises her 1102 00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:02.320 a life which she'll never want for anything, and convinces 1103 00:53:02.360 --> 00:53:03.760 her to leave with him. 1104 00:53:03.800 --> 00:53:06.480 This is me, This is a you. Oh no, man, 1105 00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:09.119 this is a you. You are You're going to fulfilled 1106 00:53:09.119 --> 00:53:09.639 that promise. 1107 00:53:09.719 --> 00:53:12.239 You are, well, I don't know. If you make the promise, 1108 00:53:12.280 --> 00:53:13.880 then you'll figure out a way to fulfill it. 1109 00:53:14.039 --> 00:53:16.079 Ed. No, it's called having a kid, and that's only 1110 00:53:16.119 --> 00:53:16.639 you're doing that. 1111 00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:21.320 So Sedna, the woman who accepted no man, runs off 1112 00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:25.880 with this handsome hunter, and after their marriage, word gets 1113 00:53:25.920 --> 00:53:29.880 back to Sedna's father that something was wrong. Now I 1114 00:53:29.880 --> 00:53:32.320 don't know how that, I don't know how words spread. 1115 00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:33.800 I don't know if This is a guy who came 1116 00:53:33.800 --> 00:53:34.519 to her island. 1117 00:53:34.639 --> 00:53:37.480 This is a guy who came to her island situation, yeah, 1118 00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:40.400 and said, I'm here, I will make your life wonderful. 1119 00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:43.480 Word travels. I don't know if it's through the animal 1120 00:53:43.559 --> 00:53:47.920 kingdom or just dreams or what. But Sedna's father hears 1121 00:53:47.960 --> 00:53:52.519 that there is something off about this handsome hunter, not 1122 00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:54.679 just the fact that he's so handsome. 1123 00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:57.679 I mean reason that he gives a shit. 1124 00:53:57.559 --> 00:54:00.719 At all, based on him locking his daughter, of trapping 1125 00:54:01.079 --> 00:54:03.320 her on an island until she agreed to get married. 1126 00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:05.960 Yeah. Yeah, it seems like if she's agreed, then hands 1127 00:54:05.960 --> 00:54:09.119 are clean of this. Yeah, well, I'll worry about it. 1128 00:54:09.159 --> 00:54:12.119 He does worry. Interesting, he hears. 1129 00:54:12.159 --> 00:54:15.559 That this handsome hunter is actually is actually not hunting 1130 00:54:15.599 --> 00:54:18.239 food at all. He's not catching anything. He hears that 1131 00:54:18.280 --> 00:54:22.039 Sedna is starving and maybe it is and that they 1132 00:54:23.480 --> 00:54:26.239 and that the handsome hunter is treating her terribly. 1133 00:54:26.440 --> 00:54:28.519 Not me, that's not you, that's a different that's not 1134 00:54:28.639 --> 00:54:31.159 you at all. That's a that's a me that could provide. 1135 00:54:31.320 --> 00:54:34.559 So the father packs up the rest of Sedna's family 1136 00:54:34.840 --> 00:54:38.360 and decides to go rescue his daughter. They get to 1137 00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:41.320 the to where Sedna is living. They rescue her from 1138 00:54:41.320 --> 00:54:43.199 the Handsome Hunter. They get her into the boat and 1139 00:54:43.199 --> 00:54:46.079 they start rowing away. Unclear at this point if Sedna 1140 00:54:46.159 --> 00:54:49.360 is saying, I love this man. He'll do better next time. 1141 00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:52.360 In the book, Yeah, I don't know. I don't know 1142 00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:54.719 how much agency she has here. And you think this 1143 00:54:54.800 --> 00:54:56.599 was on the island, I'm not sure where this. 1144 00:54:56.599 --> 00:54:58.960 He took her to another place, or if it's they 1145 00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:02.159 might have gone somewhere else from from the island, because 1146 00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:05.119 the story does say that the hunter convinced Sedna to 1147 00:55:05.239 --> 00:55:07.119 leave with him, So I don't know where they went. 1148 00:55:07.280 --> 00:55:09.880 Yeah, sure, yeap somewhere you can get there on a rowboat. 1149 00:55:10.159 --> 00:55:13.559 So they they risk said no way. And this is 1150 00:55:13.599 --> 00:55:16.360 when the Handsome Hunter reveals that he is not a 1151 00:55:16.440 --> 00:55:19.719 human being. He is a shape shifter and his true 1152 00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:22.239 form is that of a giant eagle. 1153 00:55:22.599 --> 00:55:24.800 Here's the thing. If you're if you find this out, 1154 00:55:25.039 --> 00:55:27.559 is it a situation where you're like, well you just 1155 00:55:27.599 --> 00:55:31.840 stay in

handsome form? Like this is working, right? This 1156 00:55:31.920 --> 00:55:34.960 is Are you in pain to maintain it? Do you 1157 00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:37.480 have to be an eagle? Or like, I don't want 1158 00:55:37.480 --> 00:55:38.920 to I don't want to put you out. But if 1159 00:55:38.920 --> 00:55:41.559 it's not too much trouble for you. Let's just stay 1160 00:55:42.199 --> 00:55:45.480 handsome and we'll never talk about the big bird thing again. Yea, 1161 00:55:45.559 --> 00:55:48.000 yeah that was Look we could it's water under the bridge. 1162 00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:52.079 It happened. Yeah, here's the thing. I'm curious. We've talked 1163 00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:54.679 about eagles on the show before because we talked about 1164 00:55:54.679 --> 00:56:00.800 how people were, people were from what scrubs never watched it. Okay, 1165 00:56:02.119 --> 00:56:05.719 we talked about how was it not Thomas Jefferson Benjamin 1166 00:56:05.760 --> 00:56:07.400 Franklin didn't like the idea of the. 1167 00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:10.039 Eagle as Oh yeah, yeah, because they were they weren't 1168 00:56:10.039 --> 00:56:12.239 patriot that they weren't patriot they were, they weren't. 1169 00:56:12.280 --> 00:56:14.079 They were considered cowardly or scouted. 1170 00:56:14.280 --> 00:56:16.840 There was something that he was anti eagle. 1171 00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:18.559 So I don't know if that has something to do 1172 00:56:18.639 --> 00:56:19.119 with why. 1173 00:56:19.519 --> 00:56:22.239 I guess, oh, they weren't like godly or something. It 1174 00:56:22.280 --> 00:56:24.239 was some weird thing where it's like, how do you 1175 00:56:24.280 --> 00:56:25.039 put that on a bird? 1176 00:56:25.119 --> 00:56:27.320 Well, it's interesting because when I think of an eagle, 1177 00:56:27.719 --> 00:56:30.760 probably because we grew up with it as this national symbol, 1178 00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:34.760 you think of a very heroic seeming bird that you know, 1179 00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:37.599 when you see photos of eagles, they're usually pulling fish 1180 00:56:37.599 --> 00:56:39.320 out of the water, and so you. 1181 00:56:39.400 --> 00:56:41.039 Never let them talk though, like the woman in this 1182 00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:43.800 rowboat never let an eagle talk because they got dumb 1183 00:56:43.880 --> 00:56:44.760 voices in real life. 1184 00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:47.800 What I was going to say is I don't know that. 1185 00:56:48.400 --> 00:56:49.599 I guess I assumed. 1186 00:56:49.880 --> 00:56:51.400 Wait what am I trying to say? I think you're 1187 00:56:51.400 --> 00:56:54.159 trying to say that back then, these people who wrote 1188 00:56:54.199 --> 00:56:56.760 this maybe had the same view of eagles as Benjamin Franklin. 1189 00:56:56.920 --> 00:56:59.239 Yes, because what I was going to say is we 1190 00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:02.119 think of them as these majestic hunters, but we forget that. 1191 00:57:02.239 --> 00:57:05.119 I think the reason someone like Benjamin Franklin looked down 1192 00:57:05.119 --> 00:57:08.480 on them is they're really they're scavengers. They scavenge food. 1193 00:57:08.519 --> 00:57:10.719 They don't I mean, they do catch fish and stuff, 1194 00:57:10.760 --> 00:57:13.679 but more often than not they'll pick at carcasses and whatever. 1195 00:57:13.719 --> 00:57:16.039 And if I'm not mistaken Ben Franklin, I'm not saying 1196 00:57:16.079 --> 00:57:18.039 he was a good person. I have done zero research. 1197 00:57:18.079 --> 00:57:20.719 I'm just saying that I do think he talked to 1198 00:57:20.840 --> 00:57:22.719 Native Americans, Indians or do you want to call him 1199 00:57:22.719 --> 00:57:25.960 at the time, because he brought up I think like 1200 00:57:26.079 --> 00:57:28.280 years before our constitution. He brought up like, hey, these 1201 00:57:28.280 --> 00:57:30.840 guys got a constitution almost the same they've got like 1202 00:57:30.920 --> 00:57:33.880 a Bill of rights ass looking thing. It's super sick 1203 00:57:33.920 --> 00:57:36.079 we should use this that everyone scoffed at them, because 1204 00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:39.360 it's like, we're not going to use these beasts, you know. Uh. 1205 00:57:39.760 --> 00:57:43.519 Turns out they were they were turns out yeah yeah, 1206 00:57:43.519 --> 00:57:45.920 but they had something very similar would ultimately end up 1207 00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:49.000 being like some major document. I'm not saying it's a constitution, 1208 00:57:49.079 --> 00:57:53.639 but some major document I've forgotten now was basically years earlier. 1209 00:57:53.639 --> 00:57:55.719 Ben Franklin was like, ih, sock these guys. Oh you're 1210 00:57:55.719 --> 00:57:57.199 saying you think it was maybe the Bill of Rights 1211 00:57:57.280 --> 00:57:59.599 or something. Oh, it could be anything, could be anything, 1212 00:57:59.599 --> 00:58:02.599 because I remember now the Bible. Well no, no, it was 1213 00:58:02.679 --> 00:58:06.800 like a you know, an American important documents. The script 1214 00:58:06.800 --> 00:58:10.400 for John Wick it was too. It was a trip 1215 00:58:10.519 --> 00:58:13.079 or ballerina. But what I'm saying is that, yeah, like 1216 00:58:13.159 --> 00:58:15.480 he was talking to those people, for all we know, 1217 00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:18.119 they were telling him about eagles and shit too. 1218 00:58:18.360 --> 00:58:20.880 My point is just that perhaps what's going on here 1219 00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:22.920 is that that is why this man is not a 1220 00:58:22.960 --> 00:58:25.280 good hunter is because he is an eagle that in 1221 00:58:25.360 --> 00:58:27.519 reality is not a very good hunting bird. 1222 00:58:27.639 --> 00:58:31.400 Necessarily, it seems a scavenger bird. Also, maybe he's still 1223 00:58:31.400 --> 00:58:34.039 getting used to all the parts of a human being. 1224 00:58:34.599 --> 00:58:36.599 He doesn't know how to pull the bow back and stuff. 1225 00:58:36.760

--> 00:58:39.440 She's watched, she's starving in their little in their little 1226 00:58:39.519 --> 00:58:41.800 hut or cabin. She's watching him try to hunt. And 1227 00:58:41.840 --> 00:58:44.119 he keeps just like leaping on the back of a 1228 00:58:44.199 --> 00:58:46.360 deer with his feet, what. 1229 00:58:46.440 --> 00:58:48.360 Are you smashing his head into the water, and like 1230 00:58:48.360 --> 00:58:50.360 trying to pull up fish with his mouth because he 1231 00:58:50.400 --> 00:58:52.440 doesn't know any better. But he also doesn't want to 1232 00:58:52.440 --> 00:58:54.039 reveal he's a bird, right all right? 1233 00:58:54.119 --> 00:58:56.559 Well, in any case, said this fleeing the man turns 1234 00:58:56.559 --> 00:58:58.760 into an eagle. He goes after the boat. And remember 1235 00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:01.159 he's a giant eagle. So he's flapping his wings so 1236 00:59:01.320 --> 00:59:04.559 violently that he creates a massive storm that starts to 1237 00:59:04.639 --> 00:59:09.199 sink the boat. Sedna falls overboard. She manages to grab 1238 00:59:09.239 --> 00:59:12.199 on with both hands hang onto the boat. The eagle 1239 00:59:12.320 --> 00:59:14.840 keeps flapping and the storm keeps growing. It looks like 1240 00:59:14.920 --> 00:59:18.760 everyone is going to die. Instead of doing what you 1241 00:59:18.760 --> 00:59:20.920 would think a father might do and pulling his daughter 1242 00:59:20.960 --> 00:59:23.480 onto the boat and bounding his family together and saying 1243 00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:27.679 we are going to fight for survival. Instead to quote 1244 00:59:27.679 --> 00:59:31.960 the story directly, Sedna's father quote took his ulu knife 1245 00:59:32.239 --> 00:59:35.159 and in one desperate sleigh cut off all of his 1246 00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:40.679 daughter's fingers. Oh so why because she was shaking the boat? Okay, 1247 00:59:40.880 --> 00:59:44.679 So she slips below the waves and the eagle is satisfied. 1248 00:59:45.199 --> 00:59:48.599 I guess that if he can't have her, no one can. Okay, 1249 00:59:48.679 --> 00:59:52.360 kind of an abusive relationship thing, and he flies off. 1250 00:59:52.960 --> 00:59:56.039 So Sedna now sinks to the bottom of the ocean 1251 00:59:56.039 --> 00:59:59.760 with no fingers, bleedings or cut cut all the fingers, 1252 00:59:59.800 --> 01:00:02.800 and as she sinks, the blood from her hands transforms 1253 01:00:03.199 --> 01:00:06.199 into little silver fish, and the legend tells us that 1254 01:00:06.280 --> 01:00:09.000 those are the first fish in the ocean. By the 1255 01:00:09.039 --> 01:00:11.719 time she hits the bottom of the sea, she's surrounded 1256 01:00:11.719 --> 01:00:15.559 by them, and she realizes she can breathe underwater. She's 1257 01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:18.960 become the mother of the sea. But there's a new 1258 01:00:19.000 --> 01:00:21.559 problem because down at the bottom of the ocean, and 1259 01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:25.159 I like how practical this story gets, Sedna has no fingers, 1260 01:00:25.199 --> 01:00:28.840 which means she cannot comb her own hair, and over 1261 01:00:28.920 --> 01:00:31.760 time her hair gets matted and tangled and disgusting, and 1262 01:00:31.800 --> 01:00:36.159 it traps every single animal in the Arctic in it. Okay, 1263 01:00:36.239 --> 01:00:39.639 so every animal that was birthed from her bleeding fingers 1264 01:00:39.679 --> 01:00:41.880 stuck in her hair, gets stuck in her hat nest, 1265 01:00:42.360 --> 01:00:45.960 and now all of the Inuit start to starve because 1266 01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:46.639 they can't hunt. 1267 01:00:46.679 --> 01:00:49.519 The animals. Get these animals because they're all trapped animals 1268 01:00:49.519 --> 01:00:51.119 they've just heard about by the way she's just. 1269 01:00:51.079 --> 01:00:53.760 Made that, I guess, yeah. But they were really tasty. 1270 01:00:53.800 --> 01:00:56.880 It was a huge they popped off. So the village. 1271 01:00:57.000 --> 01:00:59.360 I don't know if Sedna's father is involved in this. 1272 01:00:59.480 --> 01:01:01.760 I don't know if anyone's curious about where she went. 1273 01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:05.599 But the village summons the Inuit shaman known as the 1274 01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:09.599 Anga Cook, who goes into a trance, leaves his body 1275 01:01:10.199 --> 01:01:12.760 and swims to the bottom of the ocean, where he 1276 01:01:12.840 --> 01:01:16.039 finds Sedna, and she is not happy to see him. 1277 01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:18.079 Frightens himself over there. 1278 01:01:18.119 --> 01:01:21.280 Not happy to be disturbed, she actually attacks him and 1279 01:01:21.320 --> 01:01:22.000 they wrestle. 1280 01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:25.000 We're told it's hard to wrestle without fingers. It is 1281 01:01:25.519 --> 01:01:26.519 a grapple, but. 1282 01:01:26.599 --> 01:01:29.079 Maybe a headlock with your with the crook of your arm, 1283 01:01:29.320 --> 01:01:31.039 or he got stuck in her hair, or he got 1284 01:01:31.039 --> 01:01:34.400 stuck in her hair too. But eventually the shaman convinces 1285 01:01:34.639 --> 01:01:37.800 Sedna that he's actually there to help. He finds a 1286 01:01:37.880 --> 01:01:41.639 comb and combs her hair for her, pulling out all 1287 01:01:41.679 --> 01:01:44.239 of the trash that humans have tossed into the ocean. 1288 01:01:44.840 --> 01:01:46.199 And as the last knots. 1289 01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:48.519 Think about the animals that we're getting there. 1290 01:01:48.559 --> 01:01:53.119 As the last knots come out, ten giant animals comes 1291 01:01:53.159 --> 01:01:56.920 swimming out of her hair, one for each of her 1292 01:01:56.920 --> 01:02:02.360 severed fingers. There's the bearded seals, the hooded seal, the narwhal, 1293 01:02:02.440 --> 01:02:06.719 the reindeer, the polar bear, the ringed seal, the musk ox, 1294 01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:10.039 harp seals, and birds. 1295 01:02:09.159 --> 01:02:09.960 Just all birds. 1296

01:02:10.320 --> 01:02:14.800 I guess he as all birds except eagles, because fuck eagles. 1297 01:02:14.800 --> 01:02:18.920 We hate eagles now, Yeah, And so that that constitutes 1298 01:02:19.159 --> 01:02:23.400 the ecosystem being saved. And then Sedna is able to rest. 1299 01:02:24.079 --> 01:02:27.000 Rests in the sense that until she needs her combing. 1300 01:02:26.679 --> 01:02:28.880 Again, until she needs her fingers back. 1301 01:02:28.840 --> 01:02:31.880 Until she just die. Then she finally can die. 1302 01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:34.199 I think it's more of a it's less of a death, 1303 01:02:34.239 --> 01:02:36.559 and I think more of a return to a not 1304 01:02:36.679 --> 01:02:39.480 mad anymore. Yeah, just a resting state. 1305 01:02:39.559 --> 01:02:42.960 If you can turn into some sort of shaman ghost 1306 01:02:43.199 --> 01:02:46.880 every month or so, and Papa comb over this, Yeah, 1307 01:02:47.119 --> 01:02:48.519 keep the situation going. 1308 01:02:48.840 --> 01:02:51.599 Another reason that I told her story besides the fact 1309 01:02:51.639 --> 01:02:54.639 that it's so weirdly horrific that her father is like. 1310 01:02:54.760 --> 01:02:57.400 Her father is a tough character to pin down because 1311 01:02:57.440 --> 01:03:00.119 he traps her on an island until she gets married 1312 01:03:00.239 --> 01:03:03.000 and then cares enough to try to rescue her when 1313 01:03:03.039 --> 01:03:05.519 he hears it's no good, but then as soon as 1314 01:03:05.559 --> 01:03:07.920 his life's in danger, cuts her fingers off. 1315 01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:10.480 I think, what, I think we're missing an important page. 1316 01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:13.840 It like it's stuck together with another page, maybe, which 1317 01:03:13.920 --> 01:03:17.239 is the no good he's talking about air quotes for 1318 01:03:17.360 --> 01:03:20.000 the non viewer. I think the dowry didn't come in 1319 01:03:20.599 --> 01:03:23.599 or something like that. He's like, whoa, whoa, your check bounced. 1320 01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:24.719 I'm gonna get her back. 1321 01:03:24.840 --> 01:03:28.039 That's true. That that okay. So now if that is 1322 01:03:28.119 --> 01:03:30.440 the pitch there, then now his character is making a 1323 01:03:30.440 --> 01:03:31.079 lot more sense. 1324 01:03:31.079 --> 01:03:34.559 He's more like like, it's more consistent for him, consistent, 1325 01:03:34.599 --> 01:03:36.599 And he gets all the brothers together, like we gotta 1326 01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:38.840 go beat a guy up because he didn't pay us 1327 01:03:39.039 --> 01:03:41.079 the dowry. And they get there and it was like, 1328 01:03:41.119 --> 01:03:44.000 oh no, he's a bird, yeah, a big giant bird. 1329 01:03:44.360 --> 01:03:46.400 And then you know, hey, we're not gonna die over 1330 01:03:46.440 --> 01:03:48.840 her nonsense. So cut her fingers off. 1331 01:03:48.920 --> 01:03:51.559 Yeah, I do find it interesting. Oh that's what I 1332 01:03:51.559 --> 01:03:53.280

was just say. One of the other reasons I chose 1333 01:03:53.320 --> 01:03:58.480 this story is a Sedna is a much more kind 1334 01:03:58.679 --> 01:04:03.039 and helpful spirit water mermaid creature in a way than 1335 01:04:03.039 --> 01:04:05.079 most of these creatures that we've talked about. 1336 01:04:05.320 --> 01:04:06.480 Does anybody pray to her? 1337 01:04:06.639 --> 01:04:09.119 Yeah, there there's I mean, I don't in the modern day. 1338 01:04:09.159 --> 01:04:11.119 I don't know if there's really any at the time. 1339 01:04:11.320 --> 01:04:13.599 At the time, Yeah, there were people who worshiped said Na. 1340 01:04:13.960 --> 01:04:14.159 Cool. 1341 01:04:14.199 --> 01:04:15.679 What I was saying is I find it interesting that 1342 01:04:15.679 --> 01:04:19.599 we have another water spirit mermaid type creature with more 1343 01:04:19.679 --> 01:04:23.880 comb imagery, like a well and like Ariel, but like 1344 01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:26.039 Mommy watsa who we just talked about, who had her 1345 01:04:26.079 --> 01:04:29.639 comb that she would leave on trick people. But it's 1346 01:04:29.679 --> 01:04:31.239 just interesting. I mean, I don't know if it has 1347 01:04:31.400 --> 01:04:33.199 comb stuff. I don't know if it has something to 1348 01:04:33.239 --> 01:04:35.519 do with the fact that many of these spirits are 1349 01:04:35.559 --> 01:04:38.719 are women, and so women are associated with you know, 1350 01:04:38.800 --> 01:04:40.880 hairdoos and combs throughout history. 1351 01:04:40.960 --> 01:04:42.760 But it's also interesting. I can't think of it, and 1352 01:04:42.880 --> 01:04:44.400 I'm not doing a lot of thinking on it, but 1353 01:04:44.440 --> 01:04:46.320 I can't think of another animal in the sea that 1354 01:04:46.360 --> 01:04:49.559 has hair. It's a good point. I've never seen a 1355 01:04:50.280 --> 01:04:54.280 fish with the beautiful head of hair, a beautiful long main. 1356 01:04:54.760 --> 01:04:57.519 Yeah, that's a good point. I don't I'm sure someone's. 1357 01:04:57.239 --> 01:05:00.280 Gonna write it and be like, oh, well, the rude 1358 01:05:00.280 --> 01:05:03.719 to octopus or something, but I mean like, well, yeah, 1359 01:05:03.760 --> 01:05:06.320 I mean, I guess, like seals, there's no use for 1360 01:05:06.360 --> 01:05:09.000 combs down there other than Mermaid or like or later 1361 01:05:09.079 --> 01:05:11.760 with just Mermaid. Just Mermaid or is the only people 1362 01:05:11.760 --> 01:05:14.519 who need cobs. Yeah, and think them aboves. You're right, No, 1363 01:05:14.599 --> 01:05:15.000 you're right. 1364 01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:16.840 I mean, I all I can think of our creatures 1365 01:05:16.840 --> 01:05:19.480 that would have fur but not really hair like you 1366 01:05:19.559 --> 01:05:20.639 seals would have, and. 1367 01:05:20.599 --> 01:05:23.239 It's and it's very dense and very matted. 1368 01:05:23.360 --> 01:05:25.480 I guess a walrus maybe has whiskers. 1369 01:05:25.880 --> 01:05:28.519 Yeah, but that's not hair. Yeah. No, you're right, you're right. 1370 01:05:28.559 --> 01:05:31.639 I don't want to see more fish with hair, not 1371 01:05:31.840 --> 01:05:34.480 in light I mean like the like the filler fish tail, 1372 01:05:34.719 --> 01:05:38.880 like yeah, with Martin Scorse big eyebrows. Yeah. Yeah, I 1373 01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:40.639 guess I'll photoshop some of that in for the Button 1374 01:05:40.679 --> 01:05:41.719 of the month. Anyway. 1375 01:05:41.840 --> 01:05:45.320 That's the last stop on our global Mermaid tour. Greek 1376 01:05:45.400 --> 01:05:49.559 bird People, Japanese monkey fish, West African snake mermaids, and 1377 01:05:49.599 --> 01:05:51.079 an Inuit amputee at. 1378 01:05:50.960 --> 01:05:52.360 The bottom of the Arctic Ocean. 1379 01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:55.320 These are the kinds of stories that were being told 1380 01:05:55.559 --> 01:05:59.599 about mermaids when a guy named Christopher Columbus picked up 1381 01:05:59.639 --> 01:06:02.880 a quick bill in fourteen ninety three and decided to 1382 01:06:02.880 --> 01:06:07.199 bring the whole European mermaid tradition to a brand new continent. 1383 01:06:07.400 --> 01:06:09.480 Okay, did he write it? Then? He did. 1384 01:06:09.639 --> 01:06:14.199 On January ninth, fourteen ninety three, Christopher Columbus was sailing 1385 01:06:14.199 --> 01:06:16.719 off the coast of what is now the Dominican Republic, 1386 01:06:17.039 --> 01:06:20.599 and he wrote in his ship's log that the day before, 1387 01:06:21.000 --> 01:06:24.760 on January eighth, fourteen ninety three, he had personally seen 1388 01:06:25.239 --> 01:06:29.360 three mermaids. National Geographic has the exact quote pulled from 1389 01:06:29.360 --> 01:06:32.679 his journal. On the previous day, when the Admiral went 1390 01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:36.079 to the Rio del Oro, he said, he quite distinctly 1391 01:06:36.159 --> 01:06:39.320 saw three mermaids which rose well out of the sea. 1392 01:06:39.800 --> 01:06:42.320 But they are not so beautiful as they are said 1393 01:06:42.360 --> 01:06:42.559 to be. 1394 01:06:43.360 --> 01:06:45.559 As they are said to be, for their. 1395 01:06:45.400 --> 01:06:47.760 Faces had some masculine traits. 1396 01:06:47.960 --> 01:06:49.400 Oh okay, that's the reason. 1397 01:06:49.679 --> 01:06:51.840 That's why they are not as beautiful as they are 1398 01:06:51.840 --> 01:06:52.239 said to be. 1399 01:06:52.360 --> 01:06:55.239 Okay. I thought was gonna be like horrific, no, and 1400 01:06:55.280 --> 01:06:57.000 you're just like, nah, it's kind of like under this 1401 01:06:57.119 --> 01:06:59.239 light that might have had an Adams affway. 1402 01:06:59.000 --> 01:07:03.000 It is so funny to me that Christopher Columbus, although 1403 01:07:03.000 --> 01:07:05.840 granted he documented this, it sounds more like the admiral 1404 01:07:05.920 --> 01:07:09.840 saw the mermaids than he saw the mermaids. But either way, 1405

01:07:10.039 --> 01:07:15.599 he is apparently recording the existence of living mermaids, and 1406 01:07:16.239 --> 01:07:18.440 the only thing he has to say about them is. 1407 01:07:18.440 --> 01:07:22.320 Like, kind of man, yeah, yeah, gross, it is funny, 1408 01:07:22.360 --> 01:07:24.599 like a little bit of queer fear. But also that's 1409 01:07:24.639 --> 01:07:26.360 just a funny way to be, Like if I want to, 1410 01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:28.119 if I was interested in that, I'd be fucking everyone 1411 01:07:28.159 --> 01:07:28.960 in the ship every day. 1412 01:07:29.639 --> 01:07:32.119 And it's a magical creacher. You think you'd be like, 1413 01:07:32.320 --> 01:07:35.480 holy shit, mermaids are real. We've seen them, and not 1414 01:07:35.719 --> 01:07:36.559 so critical. 1415 01:07:36.760 --> 01:07:39.480 I think it's like, hey, I've seen them, and I've 1416 01:07:39.480 --> 01:07:41.199 seen enough exactly. 1417 01:07:42.760 --> 01:07:46.719 I don't need to see them ever again. Of course, 1418 01:07:47.119 --> 01:07:53.559 these mermaids that he saw were almost certainly manates. Stop it, 1419 01:07:53.840 --> 01:07:55.920 manatees and dogongs. 1420 01:07:56.280 --> 01:07:59.480 I don't even see it any regardless of gender. I 1421 01:07:59.480 --> 01:08:02.000 don't look at manatee and see even humanity in there. 1422 01:08:02.000 --> 01:08:04.280 I know people love manatees, but I don't. I wouldn't 1423 01:08:04.320 --> 01:08:06.280 see that and think I think that's a person. 1424 01:08:06.599 --> 01:08:09.599 Well, the thing is, when you're out on the ocean 1425 01:08:09.760 --> 01:08:12.159 and you're dealing with tricks of the light and you're 1426 01:08:12.199 --> 01:08:15.639 dealing with hunger and you're dealing with thirst. Manatees have 1427 01:08:15.760 --> 01:08:19.359 the kind of like stubby flipper arms that if you 1428 01:08:19.439 --> 01:08:21.800 saw them lift it out of the water at a distance, 1429 01:08:22.119 --> 01:08:25.520 maybe yeah, you might kind of convince yourself you were 1430 01:08:25.560 --> 01:08:28.000 seeing the arms of a person, you know, the outline 1431 01:08:28.000 --> 01:08:30.000 of a head depending on how it comes up out 1432 01:08:30.039 --> 01:08:31.479 of the water or if they I don't know if 1433 01:08:31.479 --> 01:08:32.600 they really travel in and. 1434 01:08:32.600 --> 01:08:38.920 People love manatees. Jesse Wilson shout out, Jesse Wilson loves vanatees, 1435 01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:40.760 and I think you can go on little tours where 1436 01:08:40.800 --> 01:08:42.800 you can swim with manates and like boop them on 1437 01:08:42.840 --> 01:08:45.199 the nose and stuff. Yes, so maybe they would have, 1438 01:08:45.520 --> 01:08:47.800 if that's what they've become, maybe they would have been 1439 01:08:47.800 --> 01:08:50.359 friendly enough to go up to big ships and stuff. Well. 1440 01:08:50.399 --> 01:08:54.079 Also, something else I learned from National Geographic while I 1441 01:08:54.199 --> 01:08:58.479 was researching this episode is that manatees nurse their young 1442 01:08:58.640 --> 01:09:01.119 by holding them up to their check with one flipper. 1443 01:09:01.479 --> 01:09:04.279 So from a distance it does look like a woman 1444 01:09:04.479 --> 01:09:10.279 holding a baby. Yeah, a manish woman who looks sort 1445 01:09:10.279 --> 01:09:14.199 of like a weird hippopotamus fish. But you know, but 1446 01:09:14.279 --> 01:09:17.119 they look so this this is such a piece of 1447 01:09:17.720 --> 01:09:22.760 mermaid history, the idea that sailors mistook manatees for mermaids. 1448 01:09:22.840 --> 01:09:23.640 How they got their names? 1449 01:09:25.239 --> 01:09:29.800 No, their scientific name, though, is the scientific order that 1450 01:09:29.840 --> 01:09:35.680 they belong to is Serenia, which is named after sirens, 1451 01:09:35.960 --> 01:09:37.279 the legend of the Sirens. 1452 01:09:37.479 --> 01:09:39.600 Are there other things in that order? Are there other 1453 01:09:39.640 --> 01:09:40.920 Serenian creatures? 1454 01:09:41.119 --> 01:09:43.439 I think it's just manates and do goongs like that. 1455 01:09:44.279 --> 01:09:46.520 The fuck's a do go It's basically a manate I 1456 01:09:46.560 --> 01:09:49.479 think it's smaller manatee. But it's the same idea, Okay, 1457 01:09:49.479 --> 01:09:52.079 the same if you've been to a if you've been 1458 01:09:52.079 --> 01:09:54.239 to an aquarium, they've probably had dou goongs. 1459 01:09:54.279 --> 01:09:55.640 I would have remembered a name like that. 1460 01:09:55.920 --> 01:10:01.760 So yeah, science itself basically officially conceded when they named 1461 01:10:01.760 --> 01:10:04.840 the order of manatees and dogongs that they've spent their 1462 01:10:04.880 --> 01:10:11.079 whole history being mistaken for monstrous women. So sorry about that. 1463 01:10:11.279 --> 01:10:15.640 Manatees and do goongs. Columbus's sighting is really important to 1464 01:10:15.680 --> 01:10:18.359 mermaid history, not because of the scientific aspect, but it's 1465 01:10:18.399 --> 01:10:21.640 because it is where the European mermaid tradition that we 1466 01:10:21.680 --> 01:10:24.840 talked about earlier in the show starts to collide with 1467 01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:27.560 the New World. And as soon as traditions starts to 1468 01:10:27.560 --> 01:10:30.560 collide with the New World, people start trying to make 1469 01:10:30.720 --> 01:10:35.039 money and the trade in mermaid objects starts to pick up. 1470 01:10:35.399 --> 01:10:35.600 Huh. 1471 01:10:35.880 --> 01:10:39.600 And this is where the episode really starts to get weird. 1472 01:10:39.760 --> 01:10:41.159 Now, this is a question that you might not be 1473 01:10:41.199 --> 01:10:43.319 able to answer because this is not for sale. But 1474 01:10:43.399 --> 01:10:46.199 we had you get like ladies on the fronts of 1475 01:10:46.239 --> 01:10:50.640 boats sometimes they're mermaids now, but that has

nothing to 1476 01:10:50.680 --> 01:10:51.960 do with this. Like a lady on the front of 1477 01:10:51.960 --> 01:10:53.520 a boat that like you know how it's physically part 1478 01:10:53.560 --> 01:10:54.079 of that, Like. 1479 01:10:54.119 --> 01:10:56.439 Yeah, from the bow of the ship. Yeah, I'm not 1480 01:10:56.439 --> 01:10:59.199 sure when that started. I mean it does, Yes, some 1481 01:10:59.239 --> 01:11:01.000 of those when I think about that. 1482 01:11:01.119 --> 01:11:02.800 Have have mermaids, have mermaids. 1483 01:11:03.039 --> 01:11:05.399 I don't know that. 1484 01:11:05.680 --> 01:11:08.199 We'll do a whole other bonus episode about it. 1485 01:11:08.279 --> 01:11:11.720 The mermaid trade that I wanted to discuss is a 1486 01:11:11.720 --> 01:11:14.239 lot weirder and a lot closer to the mummy trade. 1487 01:11:17.079 --> 01:11:19.239 Almost we're going to be grinding them up, put them 1488 01:11:19.279 --> 01:11:20.680 on as man tea makeup. 1489 01:11:20.840 --> 01:11:27.079 Almost The earliest documented version of the fake mermaid trade 1490 01:11:27.640 --> 01:11:31.199 is something I had seen but had no idea that 1491 01:11:31.279 --> 01:11:35.279 it was a thing that people made and sold for centuries, 1492 01:11:35.359 --> 01:11:37.479 and I had no idea that it had a name. 1493 01:11:37.680 --> 01:11:38.800 Is it still out? Can we get it now? 1494 01:11:39.239 --> 01:11:41.960 Sort of? So ed you may have seen these, I'm 1495 01:11:41.960 --> 01:11:43.920 going to show you on the computer screen. Hopefully you 1496 01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:44.800 can pop this up. 1497 01:11:45.760 --> 01:11:50.119 Oh my god, is that so what you were looking at? 1498 01:11:50.239 --> 01:11:51.239 It's adorable? 1499 01:11:51.920 --> 01:11:54.520 Can you before I tell you what this is called, 1500 01:11:54.680 --> 01:11:57.520 can you try to describe to the listener what you're 1501 01:11:57.560 --> 01:11:57.960 looking at. 1502 01:11:58.000 --> 01:12:02.319 I'm looking at an alien with little skinny legs that 1503 01:12:02.520 --> 01:12:05.640 kind of looks like a rabbit that if it had 1504 01:12:05.680 --> 01:12:09.800 big floppy ears, came down to like its lower back. 1505 01:12:10.199 --> 01:12:14.199 Its mouth and eyes are adorable. I don't even it's 1506 01:12:14.239 --> 01:12:18.720 like a little monkey. But it's also like this. You 1507 01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:21.399 clean this up a little bit. This You could sell 1508 01:12:21.439 --> 01:12:25.720 this alongside grogu or some shit and like the Disney Plus. 1509 01:12:26.039 --> 01:12:28.399 Because if I if it wasn't like a dead I looking, 1510 01:12:28.399 --> 01:12:32.199 by the way, I'm looking at a dead dried version. Yes, 1511 01:12:32.399 --> 01:12:34.840 But well if this thing wasn't dead and dried, I 1512 01:12:34.880 --> 01:12:36.800 think it's probably a little cute ski. 1513 01:12:37.159 --> 01:12:40.720 So the only term, the only versions of these things 1514 01:12:40.720 --> 01:12:42.319 that exist are dead and dried. 1515 01:12:42.680 --> 01:12:44.479 So what they that looks small? 1516 01:12:44.760 --> 01:12:45.439 It is small? 1517 01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:45.960 Okay. 1518 01:12:46.079 --> 01:12:50.560 These are called Jenny Hannovers. So the name, it's a name, 1519 01:12:50.760 --> 01:12:54.760 a Jenny Hannover j E N N Y space h 1520 01:12:54.880 --> 01:12:58.199 A n i v e R name. These are called 1521 01:12:58.279 --> 01:13:02.319 Jenny Hannovers. It's like a basically, it's a doll. A 1522 01:13:02.439 --> 01:13:06.079 Jenny Hannover is what you get when a sixteenth century 1523 01:13:06.119 --> 01:13:09.640 sailor at the Antwerp docks catches a skate or a ray, 1524 01:13:10.159 --> 01:13:14.359 dries it out, carves it up, twists the fins into arms, 1525 01:13:14.720 --> 01:13:17.479 and then varnishes the whole thing and sells it to 1526 01:13:17.520 --> 01:13:19.880 a tourist as a mermaid. So that is what a 1527 01:13:19.960 --> 01:13:24.760 Jenny Hannover is. So Ed's description of a floppy eared 1528 01:13:24.920 --> 01:13:30.560 rabbit monkey thing is is a little hard to picture. 1529 01:13:30.680 --> 01:13:33.920 If you've ever seen the underside of a manta. 1530 01:13:33.720 --> 01:13:35.640 Ray or a skate, they have little faces. 1531 01:13:35.720 --> 01:13:38.359 They have little faces, and that's where this really began. 1532 01:13:38.399 --> 01:13:40.439 If you can imagine taking one of those manta rays 1533 01:13:40.479 --> 01:13:43.239 or a skate, propping it up, propping it out, drying 1534 01:13:43.239 --> 01:13:46.119 it out, desiccating it, building a face out of the 1535 01:13:46.359 --> 01:13:49.079 you know, making the face more prominent, and then twisting 1536 01:13:49.119 --> 01:13:51.479 its fins and stuff into arms. That's more what you 1537 01:13:51.479 --> 01:13:53.840 can imagine. Also, I don't know why you'd spend all 1538 01:13:53.840 --> 01:13:55.760 this time imagining it. Just look it up. Look up 1539 01:13:55.760 --> 01:13:59.920 at Jenny Hannover. They're weird looking. Sometimes they would be 1540 01:14:00.079 --> 01:14:04.560 oldest mermaids, sometimes sea devils, sometimes basilisks. 1541 01:14:04.600 --> 01:14:06.399 Well, the fact that they're small kind of feels like, 1542 01:14:06.479 --> 01:14:09.119 you know, hey, what did you bring me from your Hey, daddy, 1543 01:14:09.119 --> 01:14:11.439 what did you bring me from c h say, hey, 1544 01:14:11.439 --> 01:14:14.439 I got you this doll? Yes, it's it smells weird 1545 01:14:14.479 --> 01:14:15.840 and it's it's brittle. 1546 01:14:16.359 --> 01:14:20.920 The name Jenny Hanover is apparently a Cockney corruption of 1547 01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:26.239 the French phrase June Denevere, which means young girl of Antwerp, 1548 01:14:27.039 --> 01:14:30.880 which kind of suggests to me that there was a 1549 01:14:31.239 --> 01:14:31.800 barbie doll. 1550 01:14:32.159 --> 01:14:35.880 Yeah, like my seaman dad brought me a

Barbie doll. 1551 01:14:36.119 --> 01:14:39.279 Yeah, kind of. Or they were trying to make you 1552 01:14:39.319 --> 01:14:41.720 think this thing was sexy, you know, a young girl 1553 01:14:41.760 --> 01:14:42.520 of Antwerp. 1554 01:14:43.439 --> 01:14:46.000 No, I think it's not. I When I looked at that, 1555 01:14:46.119 --> 01:14:50.560 I instantly got like baby doll, like Barbie vibes. It 1556 01:14:50.680 --> 01:14:51.920 just felt like a toy. 1557 01:14:52.039 --> 01:14:54.520 So you don't think you don't think they think a Young. 1558 01:14:54.359 --> 01:14:56.680 Girl of Antwerp is to say it like, it's kind 1559 01:14:56.720 --> 01:15:00.319 of the clients, hell, the clientele, what's the word we're 1560 01:15:00.399 --> 01:15:02.520 like the we're like who you're marketing. 1561 01:15:02.239 --> 01:15:03.319 It to the customer? 1562 01:15:03.600 --> 01:15:05.920 Yeah, it almost it feels it feels like a little 1563 01:15:05.920 --> 01:15:09.960 girl's toy. Interesting to me when I first looked at it. Yeah, 1564 01:15:09.960 --> 01:15:11.960 and not that this thing like like the way that 1565 01:15:11.960 --> 01:15:14.000 a little girl has a baby doll toy, like a 1566 01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:16.960 cabbage badge interesting, which would also be a baby girl. 1567 01:15:17.119 --> 01:15:18.960 It's like a toy for a baby girl. Sometimes it's 1568 01:15:19.000 --> 01:15:21.640 just itself. Yes, I get I get that. I mean, 1569 01:15:21.680 --> 01:15:23.760 I guess I always know the mothering fucked up shit 1570 01:15:23.800 --> 01:15:24.520 about it too, But. 1571 01:15:24.760 --> 01:15:27.640 I always I guess always, by always, I mean, since 1572 01:15:27.680 --> 01:15:30.600 I learned about this two weeks ago or whatever, I 1573 01:15:30.600 --> 01:15:33.640 I guess I assumed that the that the Jenny Hannover 1574 01:15:33.880 --> 01:15:36.439 the Young Girl of Antwerp was more of almost like 1575 01:15:37.000 --> 01:15:40.239 they're trying to brand this is like a sexy mermaid 1576 01:15:40.800 --> 01:15:44.600 and then they sell you a desiccated fish thing I see. 1577 01:15:44.920 --> 01:15:47.640 I think it's origin probably comes from being branded as 1578 01:15:47.680 --> 01:15:50.279 like a Barbie doll maybe, and not like, hey, you 1579 01:15:50.319 --> 01:15:53.600 want to you want to hold a fucked up thing 1580 01:15:53.640 --> 01:15:55.479 that you wish you could fuck, Like, I don't know 1581 01:15:55.520 --> 01:15:58.319 what that. I think this thing looks more like something 1582 01:15:59.000 --> 01:16:02.279 Merchant Marine would bring home to their kid. Sure, and 1583 01:16:02.359 --> 01:16:04.680 you got to bring something home you're going for like 1584 01:16:04.720 --> 01:16:05.720 eight months at a time. 1585 01:16:05.920 --> 01:16:08.600 Yeah, especially back in the sixteenth century. 1586 01:16:08.600 --> 01:16:11.760 It's a toy. You saw your kids twice. Yeah, here's 1587 01:16:11.800 --> 01:16:13.800 a toy of something I for sure didn't fuck because 1588 01:16:13.800 --> 01:16:14.359 it's not real. 1589 01:16:14.600 --> 01:16:18.279 Right. Well, in any case, the first published reference to 1590 01:16:18.600 --> 01:16:23.199 these things comes from the Swiss naturalist Conrad Gessner, who 1591 01:16:23.279 --> 01:16:26.359 put a reference to the Jenny Hannivers in his fifteen 1592 01:16:26.479 --> 01:16:32.039 fifty eight Encyclopedia Historia and Amalium. And he basically was 1593 01:16:32.079 --> 01:16:37.640 doing the sixteenth century version of like a Snopes articles here, saying, guys, 1594 01:16:37.680 --> 01:16:38.399 it's a fish. 1595 01:16:38.600 --> 01:16:40.520 Stop buying the fish. It's just a fish. 1596 01:16:40.560 --> 01:16:42.920 You're not buying a mermaid or a baslisk or a 1597 01:16:42.960 --> 01:16:43.720 sea dragon. 1598 01:16:43.880 --> 01:16:44.800 But my kids love them. 1599 01:16:45.560 --> 01:16:47.520 Yeah, they were. It was like a beanie baby and. 1600 01:16:47.479 --> 01:16:49.720 The only other thing if it's not a gift for 1601 01:16:49.800 --> 01:16:52.479 your kid, which it looks like it would be. Yeah, 1602 01:16:52.640 --> 01:16:55.600 the only reason I could see anyone purchasing it all 1603 01:16:56.000 --> 01:16:58.319 it has some sort of charm aspect to it, right 1604 01:16:58.359 --> 01:17:00.479 where it's like, oh, it brings you good luck or 1605 01:17:00.520 --> 01:17:04.039 you have like a mermaid's hair for a day, right 1606 01:17:04.199 --> 01:17:06.720 right right, And then you can see how the even 1607 01:17:06.760 --> 01:17:07.760 how would you sell out the tourist. 1608 01:17:07.760 --> 01:17:11.000 Other was the Nino that we talked about earlier. There 1609 01:17:11.039 --> 01:17:14.359 was like the monkey faced fish creature. You know, these 1610 01:17:14.439 --> 01:17:16.720 these also kind I mean, they don't have monkey faces 1611 01:17:16.760 --> 01:17:18.560 per se, but you could sort of see how these 1612 01:17:18.640 --> 01:17:21.239 might have picked up some ninio steam too on the 1613 01:17:21.279 --> 01:17:24.840 other side of the world, especially with the rumor of 1614 01:17:24.880 --> 01:17:27.880 it being if you eat it you get immortality or whatever. 1615 01:17:27.960 --> 01:17:30.039 This looks like something that, yeah, if you ate it, 1616 01:17:30.199 --> 01:17:31.199 you would expect something. 1617 01:17:31.279 --> 01:17:35.560 I don't think're gonna eat. It's covered in varnish, like, Yeah, 1618 01:17:35.560 --> 01:17:37.039 I could see how they were like, hey, by one 1619 01:17:37.079 --> 01:17:38.760 of these gets the luck of the sea, become a 1620 01:17:38.760 --> 01:17:39.399 great fisherman. 1621 01:17:39.960 --> 01:17:42.560 Yeah, I could see that. I found no reference to 1622 01:17:42.600 --> 01:17:44.720 that in the research, but I could see that I. 1623 01:17:44.680 --> 01:17:46.600 Could see that being a way to sell it otherwise, 1624 01:17:46.640 --> 01:17:48.880 I don't see them.

I don't see it being anything 1625 01:17:48.880 --> 01:17:49.319 you said. 1626 01:17:49.399 --> 01:17:51.760 Well, they were very popular. People bought them for the 1627 01:17:51.800 --> 01:17:54.600 next three hundred years. After this guy put out his 1628 01:17:54.720 --> 01:17:58.479 article being like guid some scholars even argued that they 1629 01:17:58.520 --> 01:18:03.479 were real species and propose naming them Satanicus aucus or 1630 01:18:03.520 --> 01:18:08.640 the devilfish. Things got so heated around the debate around 1631 01:18:08.720 --> 01:18:13.840 these creatures that Carl Lenaeus, the founder of modern biological classification, 1632 01:18:14.000 --> 01:18:19.039 the guy who literally invented genus and species. He was 1633 01:18:19.119 --> 01:18:22.560 traveling through Hamburg and he got pulled aside by the 1634 01:18:22.680 --> 01:18:26.920 proud owners of a Jenny Hannover. They called it a hydra, 1635 01:18:27.079 --> 01:18:30.359 but it was the same thing. They brought it out 1636 01:18:30.399 --> 01:18:34.640 to show him, presumably hoping to get the most respected 1637 01:18:34.680 --> 01:18:37.560 scientists in Europe to authenticate it. 1638 01:18:37.560 --> 01:18:39.239 We're gonna put this in the book, right. Yeah. 1639 01:18:39.560 --> 01:18:42.159 He looked at it for about two seconds and told 1640 01:18:42.159 --> 01:18:45.600 the owners, no, this is this is a fake. It's 1641 01:18:45.720 --> 01:18:46.720 not a real creature. 1642 01:18:46.800 --> 01:18:48.359 This is an animal that is in my book. And 1643 01:18:48.439 --> 01:18:49.399 someone twisted up. 1644 01:18:50.159 --> 01:18:53.800 Yeah, exactly. And instead of being and this is the 1645 01:18:53.840 --> 01:18:57.199 most modern thing imaginable humans have always been the same. 1646 01:18:57.239 --> 01:19:01.119 Instead of saying, oh my god, we were h we 1647 01:19:01.199 --> 01:19:03.920 got the old ropid dope. Thank you for telling us 1648 01:19:04.159 --> 01:19:07.680 the truth. These people got so mad that they threatened 1649 01:19:07.720 --> 01:19:10.560 to prosecute him and he had to flee Hamburg. 1650 01:19:10.680 --> 01:19:13.600 Yeah, I mean this was we accept this as dowry 1651 01:19:13.840 --> 01:19:16.359 for one of our kids to bring up dowries again. 1652 01:19:16.520 --> 01:19:19.279 The dowry you got, the dowry on the mind. These 1653 01:19:19.600 --> 01:19:23.039 Jenny Hannovers were all just the precursor though, to the 1654 01:19:23.079 --> 01:19:26.039 most famous fake fish fiend of them. 1655 01:19:25.920 --> 01:19:27.039 All, Fiji Mermaid. 1656 01:19:27.119 --> 01:19:27.960 The Fiji Mermaid. 1657 01:19:28.000 --> 01:19:29.479 Oh, I've seen a person have a picture of it. 1658 01:19:29.640 --> 01:19:31.279 Well, you've seen a Fiji murmury. 1659 01:19:31.479 --> 01:19:33.760 It's the only one I've accepted as dowry. 1660 01:19:34.479 --> 01:19:37.880 The real Fiji Mermaid no longer exists, and by real 1661 01:19:38.039 --> 01:19:39.600 I mean the original. 1662 01:19:39.159 --> 01:19:41.000 And that one's got a little like little man face 1663 01:19:41.039 --> 01:19:42.880 though that's Columbus would have been proud. 1664 01:19:43.199 --> 01:19:46.079 Yes, So there's again, As I said, we don't have 1665 01:19:46.159 --> 01:19:51.119 the original Fiji Mermaid. There are many around. 1666 01:19:50.640 --> 01:19:53.439 The go to right now, Cambridge, Massachusetts. See when that's 1667 01:19:53.479 --> 01:19:53.720 what I. 1668 01:19:53.720 --> 01:19:56.439 Saw it, I will pull up the one here from 1669 01:19:56.720 --> 01:19:58.000 Coney Island. 1670 01:19:57.760 --> 01:20:01.199 Is the little glasses on. No, it does speckled. So 1671 01:20:01.319 --> 01:20:02.039 this is p. T. 1672 01:20:02.239 --> 01:20:06.159 Barnum's Fiji Mermaid from me see with my hands, Coney Island. 1673 01:20:06.279 --> 01:20:08.560 It's almost like shicken pretal what I saw there. It is, 1674 01:20:09.239 --> 01:20:11.199 Oh my god, this is actually way better than putting 1675 01:20:11.199 --> 01:20:11.840 it up on the screen. 1676 01:20:12.119 --> 01:20:15.359 So it looks like a desiccated fish if you're if 1677 01:20:15.399 --> 01:20:16.520 you're not watching the show. 1678 01:20:16.359 --> 01:20:17.760 I think the one I saw was also a pet 1679 01:20:17.960 --> 01:20:19.159 Barnum number. Well. P. T. 1680 01:20:19.279 --> 01:20:21.600 Barnum is the guy who invented. 1681 01:20:22.680 --> 01:20:22.800 It. 1682 01:20:22.840 --> 01:20:26.680 Looks basically like a desicated, dried out monkey head attached 1683 01:20:26.680 --> 01:20:29.479 to some sort of a weird fish body. It's all 1684 01:20:29.600 --> 01:20:32.119 dried out. It's probably about how big would you say? 1685 01:20:32.159 --> 01:20:33.520 It is a two feet long? 1686 01:20:33.720 --> 01:20:35.560 Yeah, that's about what I saw on the screen. I 1687 01:20:35.600 --> 01:20:38.640 mean what I saw in person, Yeah, and screen. 1688 01:20:38.920 --> 01:20:43.199 So the Fiji Mermaid does not look particularly real. 1689 01:20:43.319 --> 01:20:44.760 It looked like an old man to me when I 1690 01:20:44.760 --> 01:20:46.560 saw mine, but mine was a little thinner and it 1691 01:20:46.600 --> 01:20:48.159 had some more going on in that one. 1692 01:20:48.279 --> 01:20:51.760 Yeah, it does. The dried out monkey head look has 1693 01:20:51.800 --> 01:20:55.279 a bit of an old man. Yeah, but we can't 1694 01:20:55.279 --> 01:20:58.159 talk about the Fiji Mermaid without talking about P. T. Barnum. 1695 01:20:58.239 --> 01:21:01.640 Unfortunately, every time I bring this guy up, it's always horrific. Frechport, 1696 01:21:01.680 --> 01:21:02.479 Connecticut's own. 1697 01:21:02.760 --> 01:21:06.800 Yeah, it's shocking. I mean, then the amount of controversies 1698 01:21:06.840 --> 01:21:09.119 that PT Barnum had in his life. 1699 01:21:09.000 --> 01:21:10.760 Those whales that burned up as something else. 1700 01:21:11.000 --> 01:21:14.399

He he was not a great guy, I am. I mean, 1701 01:21:14.680 --> 01:21:18.000 look whatever, I don't really care, but I am kind 1702 01:21:18.000 --> 01:21:21.840 of shocked that The Greatest Showman is as popular as 1703 01:21:21.840 --> 01:21:22.079 it is. 1704 01:21:22.560 --> 01:21:25.439 They put all the controversy in it, the songs they didn't. 1705 01:21:25.479 --> 01:21:27.119 I mean, look, this is we now live in a 1706 01:21:27.119 --> 01:21:31.720 world where the Michael Jackson biopic made five. But it's 1707 01:21:31.760 --> 01:21:33.920 just weird to me that he's not He's not a 1708 01:21:34.319 --> 01:21:36.680 I feel like, if you've ever heard of P. T. Barnum, 1709 01:21:36.720 --> 01:21:39.319 you know that he was kind of a huckster at 1710 01:21:39.359 --> 01:21:42.560 best and like a bad guy. Yeah at worst. 1711 01:21:42.720 --> 01:21:43.920 Yeah, he's a charlatan. 1712 01:21:43.960 --> 01:21:46.920 He's a charlatan. He's a man who and I learned 1713 01:21:46.920 --> 01:21:50.920 this for the first time in my research, literally bought 1714 01:21:51.159 --> 01:21:56.079 an elderly black woman named Joyce Heath and exhibited her 1715 01:21:56.359 --> 01:21:59.680 on stage as the one hundred and sixty one year 1716 01:21:59.760 --> 01:22:02.479 old nursing and this is the term that was used 1717 01:22:02.520 --> 01:22:06.880 the nursing Mammy of George Washington. He exhibited her on 1718 01:22:07.039 --> 01:22:11.399 stage until she died, and then he paid a surgeon 1719 01:22:11.880 --> 01:22:16.720 to perform her autopsy in front of fifteen hundred spectators 1720 01:22:16.800 --> 01:22:20.079 in New York City's saloon at fifty cents per person, 1721 01:22:20.039 --> 01:22:22.560 So just in a bar, just in a bar. 1722 01:22:22.560 --> 01:22:24.159 To be like, what are the one hundred and sixty 1723 01:22:24.199 --> 01:22:25.439 one year old organs look like? 1724 01:22:25.760 --> 01:22:28.840 And then, as if all of that wasn't bad enough, 1725 01:22:28.880 --> 01:22:32.840 the real sort of pissy cherry on this miserable cake 1726 01:22:33.520 --> 01:22:38.319 is that when the surgeon who performed the autopsy declared 1727 01:22:38.399 --> 01:22:40.720 that this age claim Barnum had made that she's one 1728 01:22:40.760 --> 01:22:43.880 hundred sixty one years old was a fraud, Barnum gets 1729 01:22:43.920 --> 01:22:46.800 up in front of everybody and insists that the autopsy 1730 01:22:46.880 --> 01:22:50.800 victim is actually another person, and that Joyce Heath, the 1731 01:22:50.840 --> 01:22:53.960 woman whose body had just been carved up, was actually 1732 01:22:53.960 --> 01:22:57.640 alive and on a tour in Europe. And that's why you'd. 1733 01:22:57.399 --> 01:22:59.079 Think this is a guy who would have been like, hey, 1734 01:22:59.079 --> 01:23:01.159 no matter what you find, and here's eight bucks to 1735 01:23:01.199 --> 01:23:02.479 say it's an old person. 1736 01:23:02.640 --> 01:23:05.840 Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure why the surgeon 1737 01:23:06.279 --> 01:23:08.199 felt the need to publicize I. 1738 01:23:08.159 --> 01:23:10.119 Think he just found a backpone. It's like it's like 1739 01:23:10.159 --> 01:23:11.960 one of those fighters who paid to go get paid 1740 01:23:12.000 --> 01:23:14.199 to go down, and then decide that this is the 1741 01:23:14.199 --> 01:23:15.840 moment they're going to actually win for them. 1742 01:23:16.119 --> 01:23:19.000 Or maybe this was a surgeon who just halfway through 1743 01:23:19.039 --> 01:23:23.119 the autopsy, the weight of the horrificness of what he 1744 01:23:23.279 --> 01:23:26.800 was doing really landed on his shoulders and he said, 1745 01:23:26.800 --> 01:23:29.279 I didn't kill a lady. No, but still, I mean 1746 01:23:29.399 --> 01:23:34.319 it is it is exploitative to a degree that is unbelievable, 1747 01:23:34.399 --> 01:23:36.720 even for the eighteen hundreds. 1748 01:23:36.960 --> 01:23:39.399 I also wonder if you're a surgeon, an actual surgeon 1749 01:23:39.439 --> 01:23:41.479 at any time period, not just a person he found 1750 01:23:41.479 --> 01:23:44.560 in a gutter and gave knives to which I wouldn't 1751 01:23:44.560 --> 01:23:47.800 put past it. No, if you're it also would be like, hey, man, 1752 01:23:47.840 --> 01:23:50.319 aren't you that guy said that that old person was old? 1753 01:23:50.359 --> 01:23:51.800 And it definitely was. And I don't know if it 1754 01:23:51.800 --> 01:23:54.640 would affect his personal career to continue being a surgeon, 1755 01:23:54.760 --> 01:23:56.920 right right? That might make a decision for him to 1756 01:23:56.960 --> 01:24:00.159 be like, uh, right, I'm not like an idiot. Just 1757 01:24:00.119 --> 01:24:02.840 what everyone knows that you're so come to me for surgery. 1758 01:24:03.079 --> 01:24:05.279 I have, I have no morals, but I am no, 1759 01:24:05.680 --> 01:24:06.439 I am no idiots. 1760 01:24:06.479 --> 01:24:08.640 I'm not gonna be told I'm a fucking dummy up 1761 01:24:08.680 --> 01:24:10.640 here either. So anyway, p T. 1762 01:24:10.800 --> 01:24:14.520 Barnum is a very complicated figure, and not even really complex. 1763 01:24:14.600 --> 01:24:16.680 We have a bunch more it's Pizza Barnum. I'm glad 1764 01:24:16.720 --> 01:24:19.680 he does exist, so that when we have Pett barnamass 1765 01:24:19.720 --> 01:24:22.880 fucking people people that exist, we can still have like 1766 01:24:22.920 --> 01:24:25.000 a a like, oh, this guy's the Pezza Barnum of 1767 01:24:25.039 --> 01:24:28.159 this or this lady's Pezzy Barnum of of pharmaceuticals. 1768 01:24:28.520 --> 01:24:31.479 But perhaps one of the things he's most famous for, 1769 01:24:31.640 --> 01:24:35.119 other than the circus that for so long carried his name, 1770 01:24:35.600 --> 01:24:40.079 is the Fiji Mermaid, which is probably one of the 1771 01:24:40.079 --> 01:24:41.920 greatest con jobs of all time. 1772 01:24:41.960 --> 01:24:44.760 I mean, when you're a

person who's so inscrupulous as 1773 01:24:44.840 --> 01:24:48.119 to be like, hey, gluem not even the Fiji Mermaid, 1774 01:24:48.159 --> 01:24:50.600 but I could totally see him being like, hey, one 1775 01:24:50.600 --> 01:24:53.960 of my horses died, cut off its legs and glue 1776 01:24:54.079 --> 01:24:57.680 the legs onto another horse and say that we've got 1777 01:24:57.760 --> 01:25:01.720 like the first eight legged or yeah, and it's like 1778 01:25:01.840 --> 01:25:04.720 and when that one dies, I want more legs. And 1779 01:25:04.760 --> 01:25:07.079 it was like, right when the ticket sales are drying 1780 01:25:07.119 --> 01:25:08.920 up for the eight legged horse, we get a fucking 1781 01:25:09.039 --> 01:25:11.640 twelve legged horse. Yeah, and at the certain point you 1782 01:25:11.640 --> 01:25:13.439 don't even know where the horse begins and ends. There's 1783 01:25:13.439 --> 01:25:15.720 so many legs hanging off of it. And that's why 1784 01:25:15.880 --> 01:25:19.399 that in some ways crafty and horse nightmare. Yeah, and 1785 01:25:19.399 --> 01:25:22.479 it's always like moving slow, it's so weighed down by 1786 01:25:22.560 --> 01:25:26.119 horse legs. Yeah, that it's just Hey, come see the 1787 01:25:26.239 --> 01:25:32.079 magnificent twenty four legged horse. That's always kind of lying down. 1788 01:25:32.640 --> 01:25:34.319 So yeah, it's when you're that on scoop. 1789 01:25:34.520 --> 01:25:37.359 You wouldn't believe how fast this thing was running when 1790 01:25:37.399 --> 01:25:38.600 we caught it in the wild. 1791 01:25:38.720 --> 01:25:41.720 Yeah, we've had to sedate it so that it. 1792 01:25:41.680 --> 01:25:42.399 Can't get away. 1793 01:25:42.640 --> 01:25:45.119 Yeah, exactly. It's gotten lazy from fame. 1794 01:25:45.479 --> 01:25:49.279 So in the summer of eighteen forty two, Barnum acquired 1795 01:25:49.560 --> 01:25:53.079 on loan from his friend Moses Kimball, who ran the 1796 01:25:53.119 --> 01:25:54.079 Boston Museum. 1797 01:25:54.600 --> 01:25:57.279 That's probably why the Fiji burmaid's in Boston right now, 1798 01:25:57.279 --> 01:25:58.000 the one that I saw. 1799 01:25:58.239 --> 01:26:01.199 Yeah, possibly it's at Harvard by the way. Oh yeah, 1800 01:26:01.319 --> 01:26:03.560 this probably is they put it. They put it at 1801 01:26:03.560 --> 01:26:07.600 Harvard because P. T. Barnum was a Harvard level savant 1802 01:26:07.840 --> 01:26:14.039 of cons Yeah, bad and bad business. So Barnum got 1803 01:26:14.079 --> 01:26:17.239 this object. It was about three feet long, and according 1804 01:26:17.239 --> 01:26:19.640 to Barnum, it was a mermaid. He called it the 1805 01:26:19.680 --> 01:26:24.479 Fiji Mermaid spelled fee j ee either because he didn't 1806 01:26:24.520 --> 01:26:27.000 know sued. Yeah, he didn't want to get sued by 1807 01:26:27.000 --> 01:26:28.680 the people of Fiji. I think maybe he just didn't 1808 01:26:28.720 --> 01:26:31.239 know how to spell Fiji, or perhaps at the time 1809 01:26:31.279 --> 01:26:32.520 it was sort of a colloquial. 1810 01:26:32.960 --> 01:26:36.239 Also, everybody, I don't know how literate the area was, like, yeah, 1811 01:26:36.359 --> 01:26:38.680 two ease was easy to understand. I don't want people 1812 01:26:38.680 --> 01:26:39.640 saying phi fi all the. 1813 01:26:39.600 --> 01:26:42.920 Time, right, right fi gi phi gi? 1814 01:26:43.399 --> 01:26:43.600 Right? 1815 01:26:43.800 --> 01:26:47.279 No that actually you might more phonetic. You might be correct. Yeah, 1816 01:26:47.319 --> 01:26:49.880 he may have just spelled it phonetically. But the way 1817 01:26:49.960 --> 01:26:53.640 Barnum sold this thing is really where the brilliance of 1818 01:26:53.720 --> 01:26:57.000 the con comes in. Live Science has a great write 1819 01:26:57.039 --> 01:26:59.079 up on this, which is what I'm mostly pulling from here. 1820 01:26:59.199 --> 01:27:01.279 And there's a little bit I found from P. T. 1821 01:27:01.439 --> 01:27:05.439 Barnum's own autobiography that I'm using here as well, because 1822 01:27:05.560 --> 01:27:08.920 in that book he describes this whole scheme step by step, 1823 01:27:09.279 --> 01:27:12.479 so proud of it. He thinks the publicity campaign for 1824 01:27:12.520 --> 01:27:15.039 the Fiji Mermaid is one of the most elegant pieces 1825 01:27:15.079 --> 01:27:16.239 of work of his career. 1826 01:27:16.359 --> 01:27:17.640 No, it's his magnum opus. 1827 01:27:17.760 --> 01:27:21.279 Here's what he did. First, he got another associate of his, 1828 01:27:21.560 --> 01:27:25.760 a guy named Levi Lyman, to impersonate a British scientist. Well, 1829 01:27:25.760 --> 01:27:28.520 his name is Limn. 1830 01:27:29.239 --> 01:27:31.359 I'm gonna be lying about what man I am. Yeah, 1831 01:27:31.439 --> 01:27:33.159 you know what I mean. You should have known that 1832 01:27:33.239 --> 01:27:33.960 when I came in. 1833 01:27:34.279 --> 01:27:38.640 He invented a fake credential, doctor J. Griffin of the 1834 01:27:38.720 --> 01:27:40.960 Lyceum of Natural History. 1835 01:27:41.399 --> 01:27:44.239 Even that lie in it? Yeah, the lie? 1836 01:27:44.760 --> 01:27:47.319 What I guess that was a Russe Limbaugh book, Lying 1837 01:27:47.399 --> 01:27:49.600 Liars and the Liars You Tell Them or something like that. 1838 01:27:49.920 --> 01:27:52.279 Or it's or is that a al Franken book. 1839 01:27:52.319 --> 01:27:55.439 Or oh maybe maybe maybe I think it might have 1840 01:27:55.439 --> 01:27:57.840 been that. I remember hearing about it on the radio 1841 01:27:57.960 --> 01:27:59.840 when I was in middle school, so I assume it 1842 01:28:00.119 --> 01:28:03.640 is either pro or anti Rush Limbaugh. Yeah, anyway, there 1843 01:28:03.720 --> 01:28:08.520 was no doctor J. Griffin. There was arguably a Lyceum 1844 01:28:08.560 --> 01:28:10.880 of Natural History in London, but he had nothing to 1845 01:28:10.920 --> 01:28:14.560 do with it. Lyman put on a fancy outfit and 1846

01:28:14.600 --> 01:28:18.880 started calling himself doctor Griffin. And then Barnum sat down 1847 01:28:18.960 --> 01:28:24.119 and wrote three identical and non anonymous, three identical anonymous 1848 01:28:24.239 --> 01:28:29.239 letters describing the arrival of the remarkable Doctor Griffin with 1849 01:28:29.359 --> 01:28:30.840 his Fiji Island mermaid. 1850 01:28:30.960 --> 01:28:32.640 You do hear this on the doll up and stuff 1851 01:28:32.720 --> 01:28:36.119 a bunch like where these letters of introduction that people 1852 01:28:36.159 --> 01:28:39.439 bring with them that there's just no way to verify 1853 01:28:39.640 --> 01:28:43.159 until two years ago. Basically yes, that people show up 1854 01:28:43.159 --> 01:28:44.439 and it was like this is from the King of 1855 01:28:44.479 --> 01:28:48.039 school down like places doesn't exist. And then also you 1856 01:28:48.039 --> 01:28:50.800 could change your identity with a razor blade and some tape. Yeah. 1857 01:28:50.880 --> 01:28:53.960 So well, So he not only wrote these three letters, 1858 01:28:54.119 --> 01:28:59.239 he traveled around the country, mailed one from Montgomery, Alabama, 1859 01:28:59.560 --> 01:29:02.840 mailed one one from Charleston, South Carolina, and mailed one 1860 01:29:02.880 --> 01:29:07.319 from Washington, DC to three different New York newspapers. The 1861 01:29:07.439 --> 01:29:10.720 letters arrived at the newspapers within days of each other, 1862 01:29:11.199 --> 01:29:14.680 and each newspaper thinking it had a scoop because back 1863 01:29:14.720 --> 01:29:17.840 then the announcement of the arrival of Doctor Griffin with 1864 01:29:17.880 --> 01:29:20.920 his would theapper would be in the newspaper. So they 1865 01:29:21.000 --> 01:29:24.520 all ran three different cities, ran the same story about 1866 01:29:24.560 --> 01:29:28.039 this guy arriving to drum up the impression that this 1867 01:29:28.159 --> 01:29:31.319 guy was super famous from overseas. And what strikes me 1868 01:29:31.439 --> 01:29:34.720 is so incredible about that, even though there's nothing highly 1869 01:29:34.760 --> 01:29:37.520 technical or whatever. It sounds a lot like a modern 1870 01:29:37.640 --> 01:29:40.760 social media campaign. It sounds like basically there was a 1871 01:29:40.880 --> 01:29:44.279 there was a debate or a small controversy over a 1872 01:29:44.319 --> 01:29:47.720 band called Geese. I think it was Geese or They're 1873 01:29:47.760 --> 01:29:51.319 They're They're like an indie art rock band from from 1874 01:29:51.359 --> 01:29:53.880 New York and they blew up. This was probably like 1875 01:29:53.960 --> 01:29:56.439 six months ago as of the recording of this. They 1876 01:29:56.479 --> 01:29:58.600 got huge in on what would have been like the. 1877 01:29:58.560 --> 01:30:00.800 Blog music scene. 1878 01:30:00.279 --> 01:30:02.880 When we were growing up, you know, on short yeah, 1879 01:30:03.239 --> 01:30:05.279 but this version was

on TikTok, on inst. 1880 01:30:05.680 --> 01:30:07.399 I'm saying what we would have been. 1881 01:30:07.439 --> 01:30:09.000 And people were kind of like, wow, where did this 1882 01:30:09.079 --> 01:30:12.880 band come from? And then at some point somebody from 1883 01:30:12.960 --> 01:30:15.199 someone who had worked on the social media campaign for 1884 01:30:15.239 --> 01:30:18.239 the band was like, yeah, I mean we just invented 1885 01:30:18.239 --> 01:30:19.640 them basically, I mean the band. 1886 01:30:19.479 --> 01:30:20.680 Existed, we invented the hype. 1887 01:30:20.720 --> 01:30:23.640 We invented Yeah, we invented the hype. We put the 1888 01:30:24.119 --> 01:30:26.359 stories out in ways that we figured would catch on 1889 01:30:26.920 --> 01:30:29.359 and kind of sat back and waited to see what happened. 1890 01:30:29.359 --> 01:30:31.399 And really they're, you know, they were I'm not saying 1891 01:30:31.399 --> 01:30:33.560 they were inventing people to rave about how great the 1892 01:30:33.600 --> 01:30:36.479 band was, but essentially they were at least encouraging people 1893 01:30:36.560 --> 01:30:39.199 on different platforms to talk about Geese to be like, 1894 01:30:39.199 --> 01:30:40.680 oh my god, these guys are the best. And then 1895 01:30:40.680 --> 01:30:43.079 all of a sudden, the consensus is just, holy shit, 1896 01:30:43.159 --> 01:30:45.960 everyone's heard of this band. And that's what Barnum did here. 1897 01:30:45.960 --> 01:30:48.399 I don't know if he invented this idea, but he 1898 01:30:48.560 --> 01:30:50.800 certainly perfected it with the Fiji Mermaid. 1899 01:30:50.960 --> 01:30:53.199 I mean, it's not at all surprising that all the 1900 01:30:53.239 --> 01:30:56.680 tactics that we're seeing today in late stage capitalism have 1901 01:30:57.079 --> 01:30:59.840 roots in huxt in huckstery. 1902 01:31:00.439 --> 01:31:04.520 So then so now the Eastern seaboards talking about the 1903 01:31:04.640 --> 01:31:05.359 arrival of doctor. 1904 01:31:05.399 --> 01:31:08.000 Isn't that what his name did? Fucking Colonel Tom whatever, 1905 01:31:08.439 --> 01:31:12.000 Elvis and Elvis manager. When people started fucking hating on Elvis, 1906 01:31:12.039 --> 01:31:14.960 he started selling the like I hate Elvis shit and 1907 01:31:15.079 --> 01:31:18.159 like Elvis Hater's fan club, and all the people who 1908 01:31:18.239 --> 01:31:20.039 love Elvis were paying, all the people who hated Elvis 1909 01:31:20.079 --> 01:31:20.439 were paying. 1910 01:31:20.680 --> 01:31:21.640 We got to get in on that. 1911 01:31:21.760 --> 01:31:25.800 Nobody hates us, not yet, but this episode we can start. 1912 01:31:26.279 --> 01:31:30.520 We'll find a way. So Barnum creates this whole spectacle 1913 01:31:30.640 --> 01:31:34.560 and then having created the appearance of this upswell of 1914 01:31:34.760 --> 01:31:40.560 public interest, starts giving newspapers free promotional woodcuts of beautiful naked, 1915 01:31:40.600 --> 01:31:45.479 bear breasted mermaids, and the papers run them. Then he 1916 01:31:45.600 --> 01:31:50.920 pretends that the mysterious Doctor Griffin was refusing to display 1917 01:31:50.960 --> 01:31:54.560 the mermaid to the public because the doctor was too modest, 1918 01:31:54.960 --> 01:31:59.439 too scientific, and too proper to show the public this 1919 01:32:00.039 --> 01:32:03.920 dible creature. It would be too scandalous, it would overturn 1920 01:32:04.000 --> 01:32:06.319 the scientific or upturn the scientific community. 1921 01:32:06.359 --> 01:32:09.079 That comes very much from his like freak show background 1922 01:32:09.079 --> 01:32:11.199 where it's like for a nickel, you can see the 1923 01:32:11.239 --> 01:32:14.319 scariest thing behind this curtain he was. But you know, 1924 01:32:14.359 --> 01:32:16.399 we couldn't possibly just have it for all the kids 1925 01:32:16.399 --> 01:32:16.640 to see. 1926 01:32:16.680 --> 01:32:19.439 How he was stoking the demand. Yeah, like, you guys 1927 01:32:19.479 --> 01:32:21.479 have all heard of this thing, right, Well, actually, now 1928 01:32:21.479 --> 01:32:22.520 we can't show it to you. 1929 01:32:22.399 --> 01:32:23.079 I'll show it to you. 1930 01:32:23.479 --> 01:32:27.279 By the time the Fiji Mermaid actually went on display 1931 01:32:27.479 --> 01:32:31.479 at Barnum's American Museum in late July eighteen forty two, 1932 01:32:31.840 --> 01:32:36.359 Lower Manhattan was insane with anticipation. People were lined up 1933 01:32:36.399 --> 01:32:40.560 around the block. Newspapers were running editorials. Everyone wanted to 1934 01:32:40.560 --> 01:32:43.680 see this beautiful naked aquatic woman from the Fiji islands, 1935 01:32:43.680 --> 01:32:44.680 because remember. 1936 01:32:44.359 --> 01:32:45.439 You don't find out she's dry. 1937 01:32:46.239 --> 01:32:50.600 No, all you see are the woodcuts of this beautiful woman. 1938 01:32:50.960 --> 01:32:53.960 And uh yeah, So I'll put it this way. This 1939 01:32:54.039 --> 01:32:56.520 is what he was advertising. This is one of the 1940 01:32:56.560 --> 01:33:00.319 woodcuts that he sent to the newspapers. It's for those 1941 01:33:00.359 --> 01:33:02.399 of you not watching. It is a beautiful black and 1942 01:33:02.399 --> 01:33:06.359 white woodcut of a mermaid looking like a babe by 1943 01:33:06.399 --> 01:33:08.880 the water. A couple of babe friends there, a couple 1944 01:33:08.920 --> 01:33:11.680 of babe friends suggesting if you come see this mermaid, 1945 01:33:11.720 --> 01:33:15.000 there might be more than one hit out here. And 1946 01:33:15.039 --> 01:33:17.720 then if you saw that ad and you said I 1947 01:33:17.840 --> 01:33:21.199 can't wait, just a reminder, this is what you got. 1948 01:33:22.279 --> 01:33:23.319 This is well you get. 1949 01:33:23.520 --> 01:33:24.239 This is what you got. 1950 01:33:24.359 --> 01:33:28.319 Mister Burns there waiting for a massage. Oh that's a 1951

01:33:28.359 --> 01:33:29.880 spelled Fiji here. 1952 01:33:29.720 --> 01:33:32.039 Though, Well that's the one on Coney Island. Yeah, and 1953 01:33:32.039 --> 01:33:34.279 that when I guess they change the again, this is 1954 01:33:34.359 --> 01:33:35.720 not the actual. 1955 01:33:35.479 --> 01:33:36.800 I wonder if I saw that. I was in Cony 1956 01:33:36.800 --> 01:33:38.479 Allen recently, look a he or two ago. I wonder 1957 01:33:38.479 --> 01:33:39.800 if I saw it what by it? Didn't even know? 1958 01:33:40.079 --> 01:33:43.600 Now we don't know. Maybe the original was a little 1959 01:33:43.640 --> 01:33:44.399 bit sexier. 1960 01:33:44.920 --> 01:33:45.479 I doubt it. 1961 01:33:45.520 --> 01:33:48.640 The three foot long thing that he leased from Moses Kimball, 1962 01:33:48.680 --> 01:33:50.640 which I'm not even sure that part of the story 1963 01:33:50.720 --> 01:33:53.600 is true, that he leased that he leased the object 1964 01:33:53.600 --> 01:33:56.840 from his friend. I suspect that either Moses Kimball doesn't exist, 1965 01:33:56.920 --> 01:33:59.159 or if he did, he always wants. 1966 01:33:58.920 --> 01:34:01.720 Some sort of fallback in case people hate it. I mean, well, 1967 01:34:01.720 --> 01:34:02.600 that was from Moses. 1968 01:34:02.840 --> 01:34:04.520 I would never that's true. 1969 01:34:04.920 --> 01:34:05.760 He swindled me. 1970 01:34:06.159 --> 01:34:09.479 The belief is that the original Fiji Mermaid was lost 1971 01:34:09.520 --> 01:34:13.439 in the fire that consumed Kimball's Boston museum sometime around 1972 01:34:13.520 --> 01:34:19.000 eighteen eighty. The Fiji Mermaid at the Peabody Museum at Harvard. Yes, 1973 01:34:19.399 --> 01:34:23.000 that was donated by Kimball's family, but it doesn't match 1974 01:34:23.079 --> 01:34:26.199 the description of Barnum's original. 1975 01:34:25.800 --> 01:34:27.039 Or like I said, it had a little bit more 1976 01:34:27.079 --> 01:34:29.600 going on. Yeah, it's like it's like it's twisty and big. 1977 01:34:29.640 --> 01:34:30.920 It's not laying there like an asshole. 1978 01:34:31.199 --> 01:34:34.119 So there's multiple Fiji Mermaids in museum. 1979 01:34:34.159 --> 01:34:35.640 And I will say this, When I saw the Fiji 1980 01:34:35.680 --> 01:34:38.000 Mermaid at the Peabody, yeah, with my friend Kiki. 1981 01:34:38.159 --> 01:34:39.359 Yeah, shout out Kiki. 1982 01:34:39.520 --> 01:34:43.279 When I saw it. At no point upon seeing it, 1983 01:34:43.399 --> 01:34:46.560 even when reading the word mermaid. Yeah, that I think 1984 01:34:46.600 --> 01:34:49.800 that was a woman. I mean, this is so I had. 1985 01:34:50.039 --> 01:34:52.079 I looked at it for a while. I took a picture. 1986 01:34:52.119 --> 01:34:53.920 I walked around, and I was like, that was an 1987 01:34:53.960 --> 01:34:54.640 old man. 1988 01:34:54.880 --> 01:34:57.720 You're ish, I look, I gotta check you. I gotta 1989 01:34:57.800 --> 01:34:58.079 check you. 1990 01:34:58.239 --> 01:34:58.319 Ed. 1991 01:34:58.560 --> 01:35:01.039 You start to sound a little bit like Chris for Columbus. Yeah, 1992 01:35:02.000 --> 01:35:05.560 you're starting to criticize the look of the mythical creature 1993 01:35:05.640 --> 01:35:07.560 instead of appreciating that. 1994 01:35:07.640 --> 01:35:09.800 I can see where how he got there. Yes, if 1995 01:35:09.800 --> 01:35:11.640 this was the same thing he saw, which it wasn't. 1996 01:35:11.760 --> 01:35:14.800 This was an orangutank or something stapled to a fish. 1997 01:35:15.399 --> 01:35:16.960 So I don't know what the hell I was looking at, 1998 01:35:17.399 --> 01:35:19.760 but it certainly looked like mister Burns or something. The 1999 01:35:19.800 --> 01:35:20.760 point is P. T. 2000 01:35:20.920 --> 01:35:24.159 Barnum knew exactly what he was doing. He describes the 2001 01:35:24.199 --> 01:35:29.520 Mermaid in his own eighteen fifty five autobiography as quote 2002 01:35:29.920 --> 01:35:34.640 an ugly, dried up, black looking, and diminutive specimen about 2003 01:35:34.680 --> 01:35:37.800 three feet long. Its mouth was open, its tail turned over, 2004 01:35:37.880 --> 01:35:40.720 and its arms thrown up, giving the appearance of having 2005 01:35:40.800 --> 01:35:41.800 died in Great Aggaon. 2006 01:35:41.840 --> 01:35:43.680 It's arms are thrown up the one I saw. Yeah, 2007 01:35:43.720 --> 01:35:45.479 it's arms are like whoa, It's like I got caught 2008 01:35:45.600 --> 01:35:47.960 in like a flash bulb, like a picture of it 2009 01:35:48.000 --> 01:35:48.680 getting taken. 2010 01:35:48.840 --> 01:35:51.039 So anyway, this is the same man though, who was 2011 01:35:51.079 --> 01:35:54.560 advertising it with woodcuts of topless babes, and he knew 2012 01:35:54.600 --> 01:35:58.399 exactly what this thing was and he made a fortune 2013 01:35:58.439 --> 01:36:01.520 off of it. Now, the mystery that remains, though we've 2014 01:36:01.600 --> 01:36:05.079 hinted at one of the answers, is what actually was 2015 01:36:05.479 --> 01:36:08.640 the Fiji mermaid, Because the story that got repeated for 2016 01:36:08.680 --> 01:36:10.800 a long time is that it was the upper half 2017 01:36:10.800 --> 01:36:13.840 of a juvenile monkey sewn to the lower half of 2018 01:36:13.840 --> 01:36:17.239 a fish with some paper mache filler and maybe like 2019 01:36:17.359 --> 01:36:21.000 doll hair on top or something. Yeah, And I suspect 2020 01:36:21.079 --> 01:36:24.239 that some of the fakes of the fake that are 2021 01:36:24.279 --> 01:36:27.439 around the world probably are that now, because that was 2022 01:36:27.479 --> 01:36:29.119 the story for so long of how you make a 2023 01:36:29.119 --> 01:36:33.079 Fiji mermaid. But there was a whole trade of Nino's 2024 01:36:33.239 --> 01:36:38.600 actually that were often the stitched up monkey fish combos 2025 01:36:38.600 --> 01:36:41.359 as well. They were manufactured in Japan in the seventeen 2026 01:36:41.439 --> 01:36:43.960

hundreds and all the way up to the eighteen hundreds, 2027 01:36:44.399 --> 01:36:47.000 and Western traders would buy them in Asian ports and 2028 01:36:47.039 --> 01:36:49.119 bring them to Europe in America, so that may have 2029 01:36:49.199 --> 01:36:51.680 been where Barnum got his this idea. 2030 01:36:51.479 --> 01:36:54.359 This radiculous question I've never thought about. So right now, 2031 01:36:54.520 --> 01:36:57.960 there's no no Native American monkeys, right, not Native American 2032 01:36:58.000 --> 01:37:00.279 meaning Indian. I mean like there are no monkeys native 2033 01:37:00.319 --> 01:37:02.000 to North America. 2034 01:37:01.880 --> 01:37:04.319 Correct, I mean, well unless you count sasquatch. 2035 01:37:04.760 --> 01:37:07.319 Yeah, But then I'm thinking about like Japan because I 2036 01:37:07.359 --> 01:37:09.079 think of the little monkeys that you would use to 2037 01:37:09.119 --> 01:37:11.359 like stitch up to these small two foot things. Mm hm. 2038 01:37:11.439 --> 01:37:13.880 That always feels really like Southeast Asian to me, and 2039 01:37:13.920 --> 01:37:17.239 not Japan necessarily. So where are people getting monkeys? It's 2040 01:37:17.279 --> 01:37:20.159 such surplus that they're that they're slapping them on fish. 2041 01:37:20.359 --> 01:37:22.600 I couldn't tell you, but I bet I'll tell you what. 2042 01:37:22.800 --> 01:37:24.680 I bet a monkey's worth a lot more dead and 2043 01:37:24.720 --> 01:37:26.800 slapped to a fish, and it is alive, So. 2044 01:37:26.720 --> 01:37:28.439 I wouldn't know that's not true, as I'll watch that 2045 01:37:28.439 --> 01:37:31.279 movie with Harvey Kaitel where he teaches a monkey to steal. 2046 01:37:31.680 --> 01:37:34.159 So in many ways that living monkey made more money. 2047 01:37:34.199 --> 01:37:36.920 But ed, here's the kicker that sort of answers your question. 2048 01:37:37.079 --> 01:37:37.399 Okay. 2049 01:37:37.720 --> 01:37:41.119 In twenty eighteen, the Horneman Museum in London, which has 2050 01:37:41.279 --> 01:37:45.159 one of these Japanese mermaid mummies in its collection, decided 2051 01:37:45.159 --> 01:37:47.439 to X ray and see T scan. It told you, 2052 01:37:47.479 --> 01:37:49.560 I love that job, just to see what was in there. Yeah, 2053 01:37:49.880 --> 01:37:51.960 there was a bunch of coins and tickets like that, 2054 01:37:52.359 --> 01:37:52.880 like mummy. 2055 01:37:53.119 --> 01:37:54.039 There was no monkey. 2056 01:37:54.239 --> 01:37:58.159 According to this article I found on a website called Hyperallergic, 2057 01:37:58.319 --> 01:38:03.079 the author Allison rights that the Horneman scientists found that 2058 01:38:03.119 --> 01:38:07.319 the body was mostly fish parts, wood, paper, machet, and 2059 01:38:07.359 --> 01:38:10.439 bundles of fiber wrapped to look like a torso with 2060 01:38:10.560 --> 01:38:13.119 some fish jaws stuck in to make the face. 2061 01:38:13.279 --> 01:38:16.319 Okay, so yeah they have they

have not enough monkeys, 2062 01:38:16.319 --> 01:38:16.760 just like us. 2063 01:38:16.840 --> 01:38:20.159 There was no primate skeleton at all. And the sort 2064 01:38:20.159 --> 01:38:23.640 of maybe not the cosmic joke here, but the punchline 2065 01:38:23.680 --> 01:38:26.960 to all of this is that the actual construction of 2066 01:38:27.039 --> 01:38:31.720 the mermaid forgery was actually cheaper than the legend, you know, 2067 01:38:31.800 --> 01:38:35.359 the legend of the Yeah, it was just like, no, 2068 01:38:35.399 --> 01:38:38.760 it's just some bullshit paper machet and jawfish bones, yep. 2069 01:38:39.520 --> 01:38:41.439 So, and they had a lot of fish in Japan. 2070 01:38:41.840 --> 01:38:44.720 They fish part. They've got plenty exactly enough to make 2071 01:38:44.800 --> 01:38:47.439 mandibles out of whatever. Not mandibles, I don't know what it's. 2072 01:38:47.439 --> 01:38:49.439 It can make lips. I don't know how you fish lips? 2073 01:38:49.720 --> 01:38:52.600 Fish lips? Whose old fish lips? I don't know. 2074 01:38:53.000 --> 01:38:55.119 So mermaid hoaxes are nothing new, but I want to 2075 01:38:55.279 --> 01:38:59.079 end this episode on a modern mermaid hoax that actually 2076 01:38:59.159 --> 01:39:02.600 might have done more damage to society than the rest 2077 01:39:02.640 --> 01:39:07.159 of these hoaxes combined. In May twenty twelve, Animal Planet, 2078 01:39:07.279 --> 01:39:12.079 the cable channel that brought you Meerkat Manor and Crocodile Hunter, 2079 01:39:13.079 --> 01:39:16.720 aired a two hour special called Mermaids The Body Found. 2080 01:39:16.880 --> 01:39:17.560 Do you remember this? 2081 01:39:17.880 --> 01:39:18.039 No? 2082 01:39:18.920 --> 01:39:23.880 So, this documentary was framed as a serious scientific documentary 2083 01:39:24.000 --> 01:39:27.800 about Noah or the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. We've 2084 01:39:27.800 --> 01:39:30.760 talked about them before on the show, discovering and then 2085 01:39:30.880 --> 01:39:34.880 covering up the existence of aquatic humanoids. 2086 01:39:35.039 --> 01:39:37.079 The reason to cover that up for Mermaids. 2087 01:39:37.039 --> 01:39:40.399 There was in it. There's a South African actor named 2088 01:39:40.439 --> 01:39:45.039 Andre Weedman who plays the fictional scientist doctor Paul Robertson 2089 01:39:45.279 --> 01:39:45.880 of Noah. 2090 01:39:45.920 --> 01:39:48.600 Wait, it's a documentary. How is anyone fictional on screen? 2091 01:39:48.720 --> 01:39:51.720 It's not a documentary. It's presented as a document. 2092 01:39:51.840 --> 01:39:54.319 It was presented as a documentary. So they cast this 2093 01:39:54.399 --> 01:39:58.039 guy to play doctor Paul Robertson of Noah, and he 2094 01:39:58.119 --> 01:40:00.960 tells the story of how they found the Mermaids and 2095 01:40:01.039 --> 01:40:03.399 why they covered it up, and the way the show 2096 01:40:03.520 --> 01:40:07.359 is made. If you were a busy mom in

the 2097 01:40:07.399 --> 01:40:10.079 Midwest and you've got the TV on or your kids 2098 01:40:10.119 --> 01:40:11.800 said there was a mermaid thing and you want to 2099 01:40:11.800 --> 01:40:13.880 turn on, and you're up up, up by, it's just 2100 01:40:14.000 --> 01:40:18.199 convincing enough that you would maybe think that this was real. Sure, 2101 01:40:18.840 --> 01:40:20.840 the only way you'd know it was fake they put 2102 01:40:20.880 --> 01:40:23.520 a disclaimer in the closing credits, but it's in like 2103 01:40:23.560 --> 01:40:25.760 the last three seconds of the credit, so you'd have 2104 01:40:25.800 --> 01:40:27.000 to watch the whole way. 2105 01:40:27.159 --> 01:40:29.520 Yeah, day doing that, and it was a hit. 2106 01:40:29.720 --> 01:40:33.560 The premiere of Mermaids The Body Discovered or Uncovered The 2107 01:40:33.720 --> 01:40:38.880 Body Found drew one point nine million viewers, which at 2108 01:40:38.880 --> 01:40:42.079 the time, according to The Washington Post, was Animal Planet's 2109 01:40:42.159 --> 01:40:46.000 biggest audience since the Steve Erwin Memorial in two thousand 2110 01:40:46.000 --> 01:40:46.479 and six. 2111 01:40:46.600 --> 01:40:46.960 Wow. 2112 01:40:47.159 --> 01:40:50.359 Over the next few weeks, three point four million more 2113 01:40:50.439 --> 01:40:55.199 people watched the show. And then people started to call 2114 01:40:55.560 --> 01:41:00.520 the actual National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and they started 2115 01:41:00.600 --> 01:41:06.800 emailing Congress asking for answers about why the existence of 2116 01:41:06.880 --> 01:41:10.720 Mermaids was being covered up, so I can't believe this happened. 2117 01:41:10.960 --> 01:41:14.760 But in July twenty twelve, the real Noah put up 2118 01:41:14.800 --> 01:41:18.640 a page on their official Noah dot gov website titled 2119 01:41:19.079 --> 01:41:22.920 are Mermaids Reel? And that page is still up. There's 2120 01:41:22.960 --> 01:41:24.560 a link in the show notes you can go look 2121 01:41:24.600 --> 01:41:29.560 at it. It is Oceanservice dot Noah dot gov slash 2122 01:41:29.680 --> 01:41:34.199 facts slash Mermaids dot html, and it is a federal 2123 01:41:34.239 --> 01:41:39.000 government document that says, quote mermaids, those half human, half 2124 01:41:39.079 --> 01:41:42.680 fish sirens of the sea are legendary sea creatures chronicled 2125 01:41:42.680 --> 01:41:46.479 in maritime cultures since time immemorial. The ancient Greek epic 2126 01:41:46.479 --> 01:41:48.720 poet Homer wrote of them in the Odyssey. In the 2127 01:41:48.760 --> 01:41:51.399 ancient Far East, mermaids were the wives of powerful sea 2128 01:41:51.479 --> 01:41:54.920 dragons and served as trusted messengers between their spouses and 2129 01:41:54.960 --> 01:41:58.399 the emperors on land. The Aboriginal people of Australia we 2130 01:41:58.399 --> 01:42:01.800 didn't get to these, but they call me maids yok yawks, 2131 01:42:01.840 -->

01:42:05.640 a name that may refer to their mesmerizing songs. The 2132 01:42:05.680 --> 01:42:08.159 belief in mermaids may have arisen at the very dawn 2133 01:42:08.239 --> 01:42:12.680 of our species, But are mermaids real? No evidence of 2134 01:42:12.680 --> 01:42:16.119 aquatic humanoids has ever been found. Why then, do they 2135 01:42:16.159 --> 01:42:19.920 occupy the collective unconscious of nearly all seafaring peoples. 2136 01:42:19.600 --> 01:42:21.199 Of nearly all people who email us. 2137 01:42:21.520 --> 01:42:25.760 That's a question best left to historians, philosophers, and anthropologists. 2138 01:42:26.319 --> 01:42:29.239 Now I think they were being a little cheeky posting this, 2139 01:42:29.439 --> 01:42:32.600 but still the US government. 2140 01:42:32.319 --> 01:42:33.960 I mean, well know what's who knows if the website 2141 01:42:34.000 --> 01:42:34.520 still works? 2142 01:42:34.560 --> 01:42:36.680 Now, yeah, it does, you can go. I went to 2143 01:42:36.680 --> 01:42:40.000 it when I was researching this show. You know, the 2144 01:42:40.159 --> 01:42:43.960 US government caught enough heat for a TV special that 2145 01:42:44.000 --> 01:42:47.159 they had nothing to do with that. Some probably in turn, 2146 01:42:47.279 --> 01:42:49.760 was hunched over a keyboard in the basement somewhere being like, 2147 01:42:49.800 --> 01:42:52.199 I can't believe I have to write this and post this. 2148 01:42:53.520 --> 01:42:56.039 But they're also happy to have the traffic the SEO 2149 01:42:56.199 --> 01:42:57.960 for the first time ever. They show up first. 2150 01:42:58.159 --> 01:43:01.439 That's true. That's true. Noah's feel big about that. They 2151 01:43:01.439 --> 01:43:04.640 probably would prefer to end up there for I don't 2152 01:43:04.640 --> 01:43:07.239 know scientific facts about title one. 2153 01:43:07.880 --> 01:43:09.199 Maybe you can find out about tides. 2154 01:43:09.359 --> 01:43:12.359 Yeah, maybe come for the Mermaids, stay for the Tides. 2155 01:43:12.479 --> 01:43:15.600 I suspect that if you are a person furious at 2156 01:43:15.640 --> 01:43:18.399 Noah because you believe that they've been covering up the 2157 01:43:18.479 --> 01:43:23.279 existence of Mermaids, You're probably not sticking around to learn about, Uh, 2158 01:43:23.960 --> 01:43:25.800 the way that the moon shifts. 2159 01:43:25.880 --> 01:43:28.039 That's not on them, that's not it's not on them, 2160 01:43:28.199 --> 01:43:29.880 that's that own person's personal madness. 2161 01:43:29.960 --> 01:43:33.760 Anyway, once wasn't enough. In May twenty thirteen, Animal Planet 2162 01:43:33.800 --> 01:43:39.039 ran a sequel, Mermaids The New Evidence, this time drawing 2163 01:43:39.039 --> 01:43:42.119 in three point six million viewers and becoming at the 2164 01:43:42.159 --> 01:43:44.800 time the most watched program in the entire history of 2165 01:43:44.840 --> 01:43:49.840 Animal Planet, beating their previous record holder, a special called Dragons, 2166 01:43:50.159 --> 01:43:53.479 a Fantasy made reel, which was another fake documentary. 2167 01:43:53.640 --> 01:43:55.399 Now they've got they have a taste for it now. 2168 01:43:55.720 --> 01:43:59.840 The executive producer of both specials, Charlie Foley, when asked 2169 01:44:00.000 --> 01:44:02.079 if he was worried that millions of people thought it 2170 01:44:02.119 --> 01:44:04.800 was real, just said that he was quote very flattered. 2171 01:44:06.960 --> 01:44:10.039 And the reason which I will say, if I'd produced 2172 01:44:10.039 --> 01:44:11.680 it and someone asked me the same question, I probably 2173 01:44:11.680 --> 01:44:13.239 would have said the same thing. You did a good 2174 01:44:13.279 --> 01:44:14.000 you know, you did a. 2175 01:44:13.960 --> 01:44:16.239 Good enough job that people we should work and there's 2176 01:44:16.239 --> 01:44:18.159 a propaganda arm up something after this. 2177 01:44:18.479 --> 01:44:20.840 But the reason I wanted to end on this story 2178 01:44:20.920 --> 01:44:25.079 is not just because it's kind of a ridiculous, laughable story. 2179 01:44:25.399 --> 01:44:28.800 There's a Slate piece by a marine biologist named Andrew 2180 01:44:28.840 --> 01:44:33.000 Taylor that does a pretty good job illustrating the consequences 2181 01:44:33.159 --> 01:44:37.520 of Mermaids the body found and Mermaids the new evidence, 2182 01:44:37.760 --> 01:44:42.079 and those consequences turned out to be more depressing than 2183 01:44:42.119 --> 01:44:44.960 what maybe they even appeared to be initially. Taylor tells 2184 01:44:44.960 --> 01:44:47.720 a story about being on a plane in twenty fourteen, 2185 01:44:48.199 --> 01:44:51.640 two years after the documentary, and getting into a conversation 2186 01:44:51.720 --> 01:44:55.159 with a fifth grade teacher who genuinely believed in the 2187 01:44:55.199 --> 01:44:58.600 cover up, and the school teacher told him, quote, if 2188 01:44:58.640 --> 01:45:01.800 Noah is lying to us about the existence of mermaids, 2189 01:45:02.119 --> 01:45:05.159 then they're definitely lying to us about climate change. 2190 01:45:06.159 --> 01:45:08.720 Wait, hold on, why would you compare a thing that 2191 01:45:08.720 --> 01:45:11.039 they've covered up with the thing that they're saying is 2192 01:45:11.079 --> 01:45:14.399 not covered up. And then, also, as person's an idiot, 2193 01:45:14.439 --> 01:45:16.039 because you can go to Noa's website and see it's 2194 01:45:16.079 --> 01:45:19.640 not real climate change. No, no, no, the mermaid the 2195 01:45:19.720 --> 01:45:22.279 artists fell. You can go to the article and see 2196 01:45:22.399 --> 01:45:24.600 that they themselves said murmurs aren't real. Right. 2197 01:45:24.640 --> 01:45:27.720 But the point, the point that this science writer is 2198 01:45:27.760 --> 01:45:31.720 making in Slate is that the fact that this documentary. 2199 01:45:31.800 --> 01:45:35.680 This fake

documentary came out and convinced some people that 2200 01:45:35.720 --> 01:45:38.640 the government is lying about mermaids. Makes it very easy 2201 01:45:38.680 --> 01:45:41.800 for them to then dismiss other things that they want 2202 01:45:41.840 --> 01:45:43.920 to think the government is lying about, like how to 2203 01:45:43.960 --> 01:45:44.720 climate change. 2204 01:45:44.840 --> 01:45:46.800 I don't know how to tell it to the science teacher, 2205 01:45:47.119 --> 01:45:49.720 but they are in for a doucy in the following decade. 2206 01:45:50.000 --> 01:45:54.239 They well, they certainly are, you know. And obviously this 2207 01:45:54.399 --> 01:45:55.960 is just one story. 2208 01:45:56.039 --> 01:45:59.239 It is just as anecdotal could be, nothing could be, 2209 01:45:59.520 --> 01:46:00.520 could have never happened. 2210 01:46:00.640 --> 01:46:05.359 But I think in a world where we have a 2211 01:46:05.560 --> 01:46:10.239 looser and looser grip on any sort of consensus reality 2212 01:46:10.319 --> 01:46:14.520 every day, it's interesting that you can trace back across 2213 01:46:14.560 --> 01:46:17.119 some of this stuff. Oh this is how you know, 2214 01:46:17.239 --> 01:46:19.960 one person might have started to fall this way, or 2215 01:46:20.079 --> 01:46:22.000 might have started to believe this other thing. And it's 2216 01:46:22.000 --> 01:46:27.640 stuff that individually across the years, in the decades. Sure 2217 01:46:27.720 --> 01:46:30.960 is putting out mermaids, the dead body or whatever. Really 2218 01:46:31.000 --> 01:46:33.640 the end of the world. No, But you start to 2219 01:46:33.800 --> 01:46:38.720 mess with people enough and the bigger picture starts to 2220 01:46:38.760 --> 01:46:41.439 add up to a world where people don't believe the 2221 01:46:41.520 --> 01:46:42.720 things that are real. 2222 01:46:42.920 --> 01:46:45.880 Again, all these even the people animal planet weren't even 2223 01:46:45.960 --> 01:46:48.159 prepared for what the following decade would bring, and now 2224 01:46:48.159 --> 01:46:50.840 we have AI and everything. Forget it. If people don't 2225 01:46:50.840 --> 01:46:51.079 want to. 2226 01:46:51.039 --> 01:46:53.520 Look up and animals or a planet. 2227 01:46:53.680 --> 01:46:55.760 So if people don't want to look it up, they 2228 01:46:55.760 --> 01:46:57.079 don't want to look it up, nothing we can do 2229 01:46:57.119 --> 01:46:59.119 about that, not on this show, for sure. 2230 01:46:59.279 --> 01:47:02.079 Well that's a great that's a great positive place to end. 2231 01:47:02.159 --> 01:47:03.800 I mean, is this more positive that I was gonna be? 2232 01:47:03.920 --> 01:47:06.079 I thought you were like, man, I'm getting to how 2233 01:47:06.079 --> 01:47:09.279 fucked up it is, how this thing fucked up the world. 2234 01:47:09.920 --> 01:47:13.279 I thought you were gonna say for real that people 2235 01:47:13.319 --> 01:47:16.640 watch that documentary and then it was like four out 2236 01:47:16.640 --> 01:47:19.319 of five women who just take a dip at the 2237 01:47:19.359 --> 01:47:22.199 beach have been pulled up in nets. Like I thought 2238 01:47:22.199 --> 01:47:24.039 people were like that. People thought they were so real. 2239 01:47:24.079 --> 01:47:27.199 They're like, we got one and like all these regular 2240 01:47:27.239 --> 01:47:30.560 ass ladies were getting snatched at fucking the beach. Well 2241 01:47:30.560 --> 01:47:32.560 that's not what happened. I think school teacher who may 2242 01:47:32.640 --> 01:47:34.720 or may not have existed, held a belief. 2243 01:47:35.159 --> 01:47:38.399 Well sure, and maybe that on its own is not 2244 01:47:38.520 --> 01:47:40.680 as bad as women getting snatched up at the beach, 2245 01:47:40.720 --> 01:47:42.399 which I think is probably happening. 2246 01:47:42.439 --> 01:47:44.479 But for different reasons and reasons. Yeah, but I thought 2247 01:47:44.479 --> 01:47:47.720 you're gonna be like Galveston, a ghost down as women 2248 01:47:47.760 --> 01:47:49.920 are afraid to be confused for mermaids. 2249 01:47:50.359 --> 01:47:54.119 My point, I guess is that it's a It's an 2250 01:47:54.159 --> 01:47:58.800 interesting place to end because the original sirens of mythology 2251 01:47:59.039 --> 01:48:04.000 saying sailors to their death by promising false knowledge, and 2252 01:48:04.159 --> 01:48:08.279 three thousand years later, Animal Planet Lord three point six 2253 01:48:08.359 --> 01:48:13.520 million viewers to the death of their trust in science 2254 01:48:14.079 --> 01:48:19.680 by promising knowledge and knowledge. Maybe there's maybe there's a 2255 01:48:19.720 --> 01:48:20.880 point there, and maybe there's not. 2256 01:48:21.000 --> 01:48:22.840 I don't know, I'll never know. All I know is 2257 01:48:22.840 --> 01:48:24.720 that it's pretty low on the fear tier for me. 2258 01:48:25.000 --> 01:48:27.439 Where and that brings us to the fear tier? Where 2259 01:48:27.439 --> 01:48:30.000 are you going to put mermaids on the fear tier two? 2260 01:48:30.439 --> 01:48:31.800 I'm gonna put mermaids at A one. 2261 01:48:32.119 --> 01:48:36.399 I'm going to because I don't know. I've followed ladies 2262 01:48:36.439 --> 01:48:40.319 to a second location for less so out on Oh 2263 01:48:40.359 --> 01:48:44.319 by the way, like they invited me, they invited followed 2264 01:48:44.399 --> 01:48:48.479 yeah yeah, shadows, Yeah yeah, yeah, I met like I'm 2265 01:48:48.520 --> 01:48:51.119 easily convinced to go to places like a mermaid, like 2266 01:48:51.600 --> 01:48:54.520 a siren's call, like their whole thing. Yes, yeah, not 2267 01:48:55.159 --> 01:48:56.760 the other thing your brain could have gone to. 2268 01:48:56.840 --> 01:48:58.960 Well, Ed, you're putting mermaids at a two, I'm putting 2269 01:48:58.960 --> 01:49:01.239 mermaids at a one. I do think mermaids might be 2270 01:49:01.319 --> 01:49:04.039 the least scary thing we've ever covered on this show. 2271 01:49:04.199 --> 01:49:06.640 And hey, you know what that happens. That's why we 2272 01:49:06.720 --> 01:49:08.880 have a scale. You've got ones, and you've got tens, 2273 01:49:08.920 --> 01:49:12.039 and sometimes there's gonna be ones. If everything on the 2274 01:49:12.079 --> 01:49:14.479 fear tier is a five and above, that would really 2275 01:49:14.520 --> 01:49:17.880 limit the topics that we can cover. So Yep, mermaids 2276 01:49:17.880 --> 01:49:20.319 are a solid one. I hope if you see one 2277 01:49:20.359 --> 01:49:24.680 at the beach this summer, you stay far away and 2278 01:49:24.720 --> 01:49:27.840 you take a great picture to show the world that 2279 01:49:27.880 --> 01:49:32.239 mermaids are real and nursing manatee and we can all 2280 01:49:32.279 --> 01:49:34.880 see that you have bad eyesight and it's a nursing manatee. 2281 01:49:34.960 --> 01:49:35.760 Yeah. 2282 01:49:36.000 --> 01:49:39.359 That's Scared all the Time for this week. Until next time. 2283 01:49:39.560 --> 01:49:42.640 I'm Chris Calari and I'm Edvacola, and we will see 2284 01:49:42.640 --> 01:49:44.359 you soon. Bye bye bye. 2285 01:49:44.960 --> 01:49:47.239 Scared All the Time is co produced by Chris Calari 2286 01:49:47.279 --> 01:49:51.119 and Edvacola, written by Chris Calari, edited by Edvacola. 2287 01:49:51.199 --> 01:49:54.279 Additional support and keeper of sanity is test Fiful. 2288 01:49:54.439 --> 01:49:57.840 Our theme song is the track Scared by Perpetual. 2289 01:49:57.279 --> 01:50:01.039 Stew and mister Disclaimer is and just a. 2290 01:50:01.000 --> 01:50:03.439 Reminder, you can now support the podcast on Patreon. You 2291 01:50:03.439 --> 01:50:05.520 can get all kinds of cool shit in return, depending 2292 01:50:05.520 --> 01:50:07.479 on the tear you choose, we'll be offering everything from 2293 01:50:07.479 --> 01:50:11.079 ad free episodes, producer credits, exclusive access, and exclusive merch. 2294 01:50:11.199 --> 01:50:13.520 So go sign up for a Patreon and Scared All 2295 01:50:13.560 --> 01:50:15.479 the Time podcast dot com. 2296 01:50:15.520 --> 01:50:17.760 Don't worry full Steady Cat's welcome. 2297 01:50:18.000 --> 01:50:20.199 No part of the show can be reproduced anywhere without 2298 01:50:20.199 --> 01:50:22.119 provision copyright Astonishing. 2299 01:50:21.720 --> 01:50:23.159 Legends Production Night. 2300 01:50:23.760 --> 01:50:26.119 We are in this together, together, Together,