Full Transcript for AI Made Outbound Easy. That’s Exactly Why Yours Isn’t Working | Leslie Venetz

We're also going to teach you how to get on the other side of this. 00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:42.800 Um, you know, last week I was uh I was with a group when I was leading a session on how we might want to adapt the way we teach, train, coach to the attention span of the modern learner. 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:53.759 And I think this is so applicable to any outreach we're doing for marketing or sales as well, because the data I pulled showed that the average attention span in 2004 was two and a half minutes. 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:56.319 Today it is 40 seconds. 00:04:56.879 --> 00:04:58.240 40 seconds. 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:07.839 Uh, there was some correlated data uh that while our attention spans have decreased, the uh amount of distractions we're facing has increased. 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:16.240 One of the bullet points was that the average person gets a hundred notifications just on their phone every single day. 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:30.480 So it just, yeah, it's it speaks to this reality that we are reaching out to people who are are really at like max cognitive load. 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:38.319 And we are trying to earn a little bit of that remaining mind share. 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:56.319 So what I'm seeing that doesn't work is folks that are writing, you know, stuff that's really generic, that could kind of apply to anybody, um, folks that are sending 100% AI written copy because it just sounds the same as everything else. 00:05:56.480 --> 00:06:14.720 Like anything that's really easy to ignore, which is about 80% of what I kind of see in the market, like that's not going to earn the mind share of our, you know, like heavily distracted low attention span prospects. 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:19.920 Um, and so we need to focus on the ways we can break through, which I know we're gonna dig into. 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:27.279 Yeah, and I don't know about you, but I am more about getting the goddamn red dots off my phone than I am about reading the messages. 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:28.800 Like I'm ADD in that way. 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:31.680 And as soon as I see one of my app with red dot, I'm like, what the hell's going on? 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:33.040 What just get it off there? 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:38.319 I don't, I don't need more reminders or oh, you got like it's crazy. 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:39.120 Yeah. 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:54.959 Yeah, I was actually uh telling a story for for another uh keynote that I did about this this realization of how like how kind of detrimental reaching that cognitive load max can be. 00:06:55.199 --> 00:07:02.399 Because as an early career man uh manager, I was getting, you know, maybe like 30, 40 emails a day. 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:12.480 Like I was I was still getting emails, but if I'm being totally honest, like at least a few of them were just from maybe like Sephora telling me what their new sale was. 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:16.399 And I got my first director title. 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:19.439 So it was my first, you know, executive level title. 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:29.759 And I would say that within a month, my inbox went from those 30, 40 emails to closer to 400 emails a day. 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:38.480 And I remember having days where I knew I was busy all day long, but it but it felt like I hadn't really accomplished something. 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:49.519 And to cope with that just crazy influx of emails, which I know would be even worse now with how much AI written marketing and sales emails are flooding inboxes. 00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:52.160 I was ignoring stuff. 00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:59.759 I was created, I had like a folder system created where I was telling myself I'd look at it later, but really was just like filtering stuff away. 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:01.920 And I was deleting stuff. 00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:07.920 And I remember saying, like, oh, well, if it's that important, they'll they'll email me again or they'll call. 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:22.240 And so it wasn't that I was just ignoring stuff, like I was literally like deleting, filing it away forever because I I simply did not have the capacity, even if it was something I needed to pay attention to, to give it my time and attention. 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:23.199 It's crazy. 00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:24.000 Yeah. 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:31.199 And just just so we're starting off on like a uh everyone starting with the same information. 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:33.360 We're talking about outbound. 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:41.360 Just give us a quick, quick and dirty definition of what we're when we're talking about in sales, what we're talking about with outbound. 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:42.879 Yeah, great question. 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:49.919 Because I do think that some folks have a tendency to mistake marketing outreach and sales outreach. 00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:53.360 Um, so a couple things to help us all get on the same page. 00:08:53.519 --> 00:09:00.480 So if we think about marketing outreach, that is going to be written as one to many. 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:05.279 And anybody who is getting your marketing reach has opted in, or hopefully is a double opt-in. 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:07.919 It's like your Sephora emails that you mentioned earlier. 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:08.559 Totally. 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:09.679 Yes, totally. 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:12.559 Like maybe I get Johnson and Murphy. 00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:14.000 Yes, yeah, you get it. 00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:14.480 You get it. 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:16.399 I think my husband gets like filled in stream. 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:18.799 You know, lead me, pick pick your poison. 00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:22.240 Um, so marketing emails are over here. 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:27.120 And then when we have sales emails, we really do have two types of sales emails. 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:33.200 Cold outreach is what we're gonna dig into today, but there's also sort of warm to hot outreach. 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:42.720

And the distinction that I make is that sales emails, even if they're not written one-to-one, should always feel one-to-one. 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:49.200 So the the sales email should always feel like it is written for that specific person receiving it. 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:51.519 And it should always come from a person email. 00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:54.799 So never a hello ad or a marketing ad email, always a person. 00:09:55.200 --> 00:10:02.399 So warm emails are going to be people that specifically asked you to contact them. 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:16.159 So maybe that is somebody that visited your website and submitted a message that they wanted you to reach out, or they, you know, asked for a demo, or you, you know, attended one of your webinars and they asked for follow-up information, right? 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:19.279 Like those are people that specifically asked to be contacted. 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:21.600 Anybody else is cold. 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:26.639 And so it doesn't matter how warm you think they are. 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:35.360 Like it doesn't matter if you're like, well, this is my you know high priority contact, and I met them at this event and they downloaded something from me. 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:40.879 If that person has never explicitly said, contact me, they're cold. 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:43.679 They did not ask you to reach out, so you were reaching out cold. 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:46.240 And that's where our conversation is gonna live. 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:51.600 That's a great distinction because yeah, they may have downloaded something. 00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:52.720 You can track it all. 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:55.679 We know it find my iPhone. 00:10:55.759 --> 00:11:00.240 We we know where they are and what they're doing on your website if you're that sophisticated. 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:14.480 But it you're right, they they're voyeurs at that point, they're just kind of ghosts, they're they're they're kicking the tires, but they haven't said, hey, I want to, I'm interested in learning more. 00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:17.360 They're they're choosing to remain in the in the shadows. 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:21.360 If you're interesting point, go ahead. 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:24.320 No, I was just saying it's a great distinction, it's really interesting. 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:26.799 Yeah, I think I think a lot of people do that, right? 00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:32.159 Oh interested, we get all hot and bothered and ready to go. 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:32.960 Totally. 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:39.200 And then they get excited and then they start sending follow-up emails like, I see you attended my webinar. 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:39.519 Right. 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:42.240 I noticed that you downloaded my white paper. 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:43.360 And it's like, what? 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:55.200 Like, that's that's the first thing you're going to say to this person who is probably interested, but they have not explicitly asked for information. 00:11:55.360 --> 00:12:01.840 Like the first thing you're gonna say is something that they already know because they're the person that literally did it. 00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:09.919 And so when we think about writing cold outreach, we absolutely have to make it relevant. 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:14.639 And for it to be relevant, it has to be like relevant to the recipient of the message. 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:18.240 So that means it has to be something that they give a heck about, right? 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:23.200 And telling them that they downloaded a white paper when they already know they downloaded it. 00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:31.840 Like they don't, that's not important information for them to get from you, which then puts you into that huge pot of emails and messages that get ignored. 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:37.440 Well, and you also verge, and I've had this conversation with my team because I've said, why don't we follow up? 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:40.159 And then they're like, it's a little big brothery, it's a little creepy. 00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:42.559 Like you're you're following them around. 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:45.360 They don't they don't need to know you're tracking their every move. 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:47.759 That could be a little worrisome for them as well. 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:48.480 Right. 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:52.320 I saw you on our website for 12 minutes at 3:34 a.m. 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:54.720 this morning, having trouble sleeping. 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:55.440 Yeah. 00:12:55.679 --> 00:12:56.879 Well, we have the cure. 00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:04.559 So anyway, I mean, if if you'd had a if you were selling something to help people sleep, that actually might be pretty cool. 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:07.120 But uh, so let's let's get into this outbound thing. 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:08.399 We got a cold lead. 00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:19.279 So they've landed on a mailing list, or we have their con we we have their contact information, but they've never they have yet to put up their hand and say, tell me more. 00:13:19.519 --> 00:13:20.960 This is who we're dealing with. 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:25.840 It's an ICP ideal client profile or target client, whatever we want to call them. 00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:32.240 And now we're putting together the plan to to get to make them interested. 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:34.159 Is that what we're trying to do here? 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:35.360 Yes, perfect. 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:36.559 Perfect summary. 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:37.360 Yeah. 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:41.919 So there's there's two ways I encourage business owners to think about this. 00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:49.919 One maps back to that understanding that we are contacting people who are already at maximum cognitive load. 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:59.279 So one of the things that we need to do is make it so incredibly easy for them to digest our message. 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:03.759 And here's

another shocking statistic, maybe two layered statistics. 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:11.120 One is that the average executive only spends three to four seconds on an email that they open. 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:22.240 So this is based on the assumption that it is actually made it out of spam into their primary inbox, that they have seen a subject line plus preview text worth reading, and they've opened it. 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:25.039 And even then, we're getting three to four seconds. 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:37.200 And so what that means is that you have to stop writing emails on the assumption that people are reading them, and you have to start writing your emails on the assumption people are scanning them. 00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:38.879 Okay. 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:41.440 So it's a it's a bit of a pivot. 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:46.720 So what I teach folks is a 110-100 rule. 00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:52.799 And I'm gonna start at 100 because this is gonna be the one that somebody like, I can see it in my mind. 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:54.559 Somebody's already like recoiling. 00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:56.399 Like, how dare you? 00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:03.200 Your emails, your sales, cold sales emails need to be 100 words or less. 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:04.159 Okay. 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:13.519 And there's already somebody listening to this podcast that's like, I can't say everything I need to say in a hundred words. 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:14.559 It's way too complicated. 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:16.240 What message to get? 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:33.120 Well, oh, so Leslie, just to jump in there, I remember way back when, a couple like many years ago, I I don't, I think I attended something, but they said, you know, there's there's a the ad with just the bullets, and then there's the ad with lots of text. 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:34.399 Which one converts better? 00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:40.080 And they kind of said, you know, the person who needs more information, and then there's a person who's more impulsive. 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:46.000 But if you put the long text in there, it'll still cover the impulsive person, but you'll get the person who needs information. 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:51.200 So it's it was better at that time to have more information in your message. 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:55.440 At least that's what I remember hearing or or seeing, right? 00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:58.399 Because people will pull it what they want. 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:08.639 But with email and just this onslaught of messaging, now it really is like you got to hit them fast and hard and try to. 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:16.159 I guess I'm jumping in here, but you want them to get to that next step, which isn't the sale, obviously, right? 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:18.559 Yes. 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:23.360 I I would challenge that that was ever true. 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:24.000 Okay. 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:29.759 Like even if we look back to 2004 when our attention spans were two and a half minutes. 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:30.399 Okay. 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:35.120 Like that doesn't translate to people spending two and a half minutes reading an email. 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:35.840 Right. 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:43.200 So that could be applicable if you are reaching out to people with a level of trust and interest already built. 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:43.759 Okay. 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:49.919 But even today, those rules aren't true for follow-up emails. 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:53.279 So when somebody says, I'm interested, send me follow-up information. 00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:56.559 You still want to stay below a 130 words. 00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:57.200 Okay. 00:16:58.159 --> 00:17:04.079 Um, so I I would wonder if that was maybe based on uh it might, it might have been advertising. 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:06.079 That I think about it. 00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:17.119 I was gonna say I wouldn't, I wouldn't be surprised to hear if maybe that was based on like marketing double opt-in newsletter or like advertising best practice versus cold sales outreach markets. 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:31.279 And but that's exactly why we started this conversation by kind of delineating because I think it can be really confusing to hear, oh, well, this, you know, this person said I should do this, and this person said don't use bullet points, and they said use bullet points every time. 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:33.200 Like, how the hell do I know? 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:40.000 And we know there's a lot of people out there that want to give you short little advice to get your attention, right? 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:43.279 About everything, and it's contrary, it's crazy. 00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:44.160 Okay, yeah. 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:46.799 So forget what I said, continue on. 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:49.359 Well, don't forget it. 00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:52.880 Just remember that today we're talking about cold sales outreach. 00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:58.720 And so that is different information for a different application of earning the attention of our buyers. 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:02.400 Um, okay, so a hundred words, one ten, one hundred, a hundred words. 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:07.119 I need you, please, to keep your emails under a hundred words. 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:08.559 And here's what I believe. 00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:12.480 I believe that you do have something extremely important to say. 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:20.400 And I believe that if we look at all of the important things that you have to say and communicate to your prospective buyers, it exceeds a hundred words. 00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:34.000 This is why I need you to always think about your outreach as a sequence of messages so that you can take the pressure off of yourself to try to put everything that you've ever wanted to communicate to this prospect in one email. 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:38.319 So you're you're telling a story about the outcomes that matter to them. 00:18:38.400 -->

00:18:45.519 You're telling a story about the value across multiple messages instead of trying to shove it all in to one message. 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:46.079 Right. 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:50.079 So 110, 100, 100 is under 100 words. 00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:55.039 The one is one clear, concise call to action. 00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:04.799 And this goes back to that cognitive load that the moment we divide focus, the prospect is significantly less likely to take any action. 00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:07.200 Because now it's not just like take this action. 00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:07.759 It's easy. 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:09.519 Just you, this is the only thing you need to do. 00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:10.160 Do this one thing. 00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:12.400 It's like, should I do this or should I do this? 00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:28.000 And the most sneaky way I see that come up is when folks are like, um, you can visit the website, also book a call, or like here's a link to a YouTube video, but also we'll be at this event next week. 00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:37.359 And so you don't automatically think of it as two calls to action because it's like meet at the event or book a call is the clear call to action. 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:48.799 But anytime you are giving them two different paths they can take, two different actions that they can take, even if you don't mean it to be two calls to action, you're you're dividing their focus. 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:53.839 So only one clear thing that they're supposed to do with each email. 00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:54.400 Okay. 00:19:55.039 --> 00:20:00.000 And then the 10, 110, 100, the 10 is optimizing for the preview text. 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:06.480 So this comes really easy to anybody that works on marketing emails because they're already doing preview text. 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:09.920 So kudos to y'all for being ahead of the game on this. 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:19.680 Um, it's, you know, sales sometimes is a little bit late to the game when it when it comes to um things like following markets lead on preview text. 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:25.279 But here's the biggest mistake I see people make is that they'll write a great subject line. 00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:30.960 And then their email starts with, hi Susan, I hope this email finds you well. 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:35.680 Hi, Tim, I'm your sales executive at blah blah blah. 00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:39.039 Hi, Barb, we are blah, blah, blah. 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:54.559 And so you've spent the time to write a great subject line, but then you ruin your preview text by making it very clear that A, it's a sales email and a boring one if you're starting with, I hope this email finds you well. 00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:58.000 So you're making yourself easy to ignore, easy to delete. 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:05.920 And so you really want to make sure that those first 10 words say anything, something that sparks a little bit of recognition or a little bit of interest. 00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:08.400 What about using the name? 00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:14.480 Do you just skip over the name, or is it still a good idea to use the recipient's name? 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:15.359 Oh, yeah, yeah. 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:16.720 Yeah, great question. 00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:17.519 Definitely. 00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:24.480 So you're gonna say Corey, and then 10 hard-hitting words, not hi, I'm following. 00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:28.400 I notice you're on our website at three o'clock in the morning. 00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:39.119 You're saying something, and so I'm guessing we want to make this really about them, not about, hey, we have a great offer. 00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:41.279 That's probably not the right way to go. 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:41.599 Yeah. 00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:49.599 So how can you give us some rules or guidelines around what how we should start that email, that initial email? 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:50.160 Yeah. 00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:59.759 A couple of ways to think about this is that you want all of your messages to be outcome focused, meaning you're focused on the outcomes that matter to the research. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:00.640 Recipient. 00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:01.039 Okay. 00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:05.680 And almost all of the emails that we write are feature focused. 00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:06.480 Okay. 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:23.680 And if you want to do a little audit and maybe have a bit of a, you know, like come to come to earth like, you know, moment of honesty with yourself, um, I'd encourage you to take your last five cold emails that you wrote. 00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:25.839 And I want you to do two things. 00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:40.880 One, I want you to look at how often you are talking about your company, your product, your service, your features versus how often you are talking about the outcomes that matter most to them. 00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:48.640 And I'm gonna I'm gonna give you another little framework in a second that you can use called Fabs to kind of figure out how to map that out with messaging. 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:49.119 Okay. 00:22:49.279 --> 00:23:04.640 Um, but the easiest way to get started on this audit is to look at how many times in the email you use I, we, my, or our versus you, your, they, or them. 00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:06.720 Love it. 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:07.440 Yep. 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:11.759 So it's pull those last five emails out and run that audit. 00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:21.599 Um, and at the end of the day, what you want to try to do is use like you, your, they, them language three times for every one time you're talking about yourself. 00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:24.960 So it's not like you're trying to never say I or we or our. 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:33.119 You're just trying to strike a balance that pushes you to write messaging that's more centered on the recipient instead of centered on yourself. 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:33.759 Love it. 00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:34.319 That's great.

00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:38.480 Now I'm gonna ask you the worst question of our our conversation. 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:46.559 Can you give us an example of what an outcome-based 10-word first line might sound like? 00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:52.000 Um, so the preview text is the first 10 words, including the subject line. 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:52.559 Okay. 00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:57.039 So really, you're gonna maybe get like, you know, four or five more words. 00:23:57.279 --> 00:23:57.599 Okay. 00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:01.599 Um, so so take the pressure off of yourself a little bit. 00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:02.079 Okay. 00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:07.039 Like you are not trying to write the most perfect preview text ever. 00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:10.400 You're just trying to not write shitty preview text. 00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:11.119 Okay. 00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:13.200 That's a big distinction. 00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:14.720 So, yes. 00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:20.960 So let's like, let's make our first step, not to be a 13 out of 10 excellent email writer. 00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:25.279 Let's just make our first step to write emails that are a little less self-centered. 00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:34.960 So, my first challenge to you is just running that audit and making sure that your emails are not starting with, I hope you're well, I just noticed, I saw that. 00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:35.599 Okay. 00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:40.559 And just try to make that first sentence something that is about them, right? 00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:43.359 Something that they care about instead of about you. 00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:51.359 So again, it's not about them, like I saw you're the VP of sales at blah, blah, blah, or I noticed that you have a LinkedIn profile. 00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:52.880 They don't give a shit. 00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:54.559 Like they already know those things. 00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:56.079 They are things about them. 00:24:56.319 --> 00:25:04.000 You need to say something that that matters, not just like repeating a fact about them that they already know back to them. 00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:06.079 And so that's why I push to outcome. 00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:12.880 Um, so maybe it would be helpful to give folks this messaging framework that I love teaching my clients. 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.599 Okay, so it's called Fabs. 00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:20.960 And I'm hoping maybe at least one person listening hears Fabs and is like, oh, that sounds familiar. 00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:23.279 So do you remember Zig Ziggler? 00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:24.319 Yeah. 00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:24.880 Yeah. 00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:25.200 Okay. 00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:28.160 A lot of folks might find Zig Ziggler as a name familiar. 00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:29.599 Um, he wrote a ton of books. 00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:34.000 He was kind of like an OG in sales, techniques, and philosophy. 00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:34.400 Yep. 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:49.440 Um, and he really popularized fabs, maybe in like

the 80s, but it actually is tied to a like 130-year-old marketing concept popularized by some guy called St. 00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:55.519 Elmo, called AIDA, attention, interest, desire action. 00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:05.039 So we're we're pulling this concept from like a hundred and thirty years of testing, trying, and iterating it. 00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:07.920 And now we're gonna make it applicable to sales messaging. 00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:13.519 So here's what Fab stands for: features, advantages, benefits. 00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:17.440 I audit hundreds, thousands of sales messages. 00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:22.480 At least 80% of them do not move beyond features. 00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:23.119 Okay. 00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:29.359 And so uh that might sound like we have real-time analytics. 00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:31.920 And it's like, okay, cool. 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:33.680 Like that's that's a great feature. 00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:38.640 Like, I I can I can see why you know you might want to mention it. 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:41.680 But like, I'm a stranger that you emailed. 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:44.559 I I don't know you, I don't know your product. 00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:48.160 Like, why would I care about real-time analytics? 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:55.759 And so maybe another 10-15% of the emails will go on to talk about the advantage. 00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:01.839 So it's like we have real-time analytics, so that saves you time. 00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:08.880 So it's like that's like a little bit better, but like, why would I care? 00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:11.200 Like, again, I don't know you. 00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:13.599 This is a totally generic statement. 00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:20.000 Any of your competitors selling something similar probably have a similar feature and definitely can say the same advantage, right? 00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:20.400 Right. 00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:35.359 So if I'm looking at all of the sales messages that I audit, 90 to 95% of them live in the very generic world of I'm talking about my product features that I care about, but you, stranger, don't give a heck about. 00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:43.039 And then I'm giving you one superficial advantage that's the same thing that any of my competitors could talk about. 00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:45.519 I save time, I save money, I reduce risk, right? 00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:47.200 It's the same stuff over and over again. 00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:54.160 So here's what the top 5% of sellers, business owners, writing sales, messaging are doing. 00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:57.039 They're getting all the way to advantages. 00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:02.720 And advantages ask you why would this person care? 00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:04.799 What would the impact be for them? 00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:06.720 So let's go through the whole thing again. 00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:10.720 Real-time analytics that will save you time. 00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:17.200 And so let's say that I am uh like maybe I'm a VP of operations. 00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:23.759 So it's going to save me time, which will allow me to do what? 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:35.759 So you might want to go to the internet or go to Claude or maybe go to some of your other VP of operations customers and ask, like, what are the most time-consuming tasks that you have on your plate? 00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:36.480 Right. 00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:41.680 Okay, what would be the benefit of you getting to give those tasks more attention? 00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:51.920 Or like if you had an extra eight hours every single month, what else would you be able to deliver? 00:28:52.160 --> 00:29:07.279 And how would that map to the executive initiatives, like to, you know, or like maybe I guess in this instance it's business owners, but like if you're VP of operations reporting to a CEO, like how would that map to your boss's initiatives? 00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:24.319 For a business owner, you know, you might respond to something like it saves you time, which means you can bring uh, you know, the next deliverable on your product roadmap forward three months. 00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:26.960 So, like, does that kind of help connect the dots? 00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:31.279 That it's not enough to talk about the product feature or the sort of superficial advantage. 00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:38.240 You really want to talk specifically about what it could mean for the world that that recipient lives in. 00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:41.599 And I see that in 5% of messaging or less. 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:44.400 It really feels like just connecting the dots for them. 00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:45.200 Totally. 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:46.079 Yeah. 00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:58.640 Now I notice you were saying we have, which was what you said we should we should only be talking about what we do one out of every three mentions for them. 00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:04.480 So would this line kind of be your hey? 00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:14.079 Um, you are, you know, your first line might be, I know you're probably struggling with time and gathering data or something like that. 00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:19.359 A couple more pain points, maybe, then this would be that we have this. 00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:21.759 Would you like a demo type video? 00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:22.960 Because yeah, no, I'm sorry. 00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:25.279 We only have a hundred characters. 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:28.400 So I'm trying to understand what it looks like. 00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:31.200 We skip the feature in the uh advantage. 00:30:31.359 --> 00:30:33.200 We skip it, they don't give a shit. 00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:33.759 Okay. 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:40.160 They want to know how the they want to know that the outcome can be delivered in a cold email. 00:30:40.319 --> 00:30:45.039 They don't yet care about the minutiae of how it gets delivered. 00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:45.599 Okay. 00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:49.039 So you're you're fast tracking past that. 00:30:49.279 -->

00:30:51.440 And and a couple things. 00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:59.839 One is that like most of the time you're probably selling to somebody that's vaguely familiar with the category of thing you're selling. 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:01.200 So you're competing. 00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:02.319 You're competing with someone. 00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:08.319 Yeah, and they like they assume that you have real-time analytics because like that's what everybody has. 00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:08.640 Right. 00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:16.079 So you you you don't need to tell them those things because those are not the things that they care about right now. 00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:16.720 Okay. 00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:26.319 All they care about in the cold outreach email that they are scanning for three to four seconds to see if there's any valuable context. 00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:29.839 And valuable context isn't save time or real-time analytics. 00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:36.640 Valuable context is VP of operations, usually, my god, I don't really know much about operations. 00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:38.160 I don't know why I chose that example. 00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:39.920 But let's look at business owners. 00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:41.440 You're allowed to switch. 00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:43.279 You're not looking, you're not stuck in here. 00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:44.240 You can you can pivot. 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:44.720 Right. 00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:48.720 I'm like, I don't know why I chose an ICP that I literally don't sell to at all. 00:31:48.880 --> 00:32:03.039 Um, but it might be like um VPs of sales are often under tremendous pressure to hit quotas that increase every year. 00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:03.839 Right. 00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:04.640 Okay. 00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:12.720 Usually they struggle to hit quota because of X reason. 00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:18.400 And then we're going to offer like the outcome that's tied to the thing. 00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:24.400 And so maybe it's like maybe I sell a software that helps with compensation. 00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:35.279 And so the outcome that I can offer is compensation plans that are like you know, backed in data that better incentivize people to hit quota. 00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:52.559 So then it's like um research shows that if comp plans are more directly tied to your top three revenue goals, quota gets hit worth learning more. 00:32:53.599 --> 00:32:53.920 Okay. 00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:59.759 So now we're getting them to kind of we put our hook in the water, we're gonna see if they're gonna bite. 00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:00.640 Totally. 00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:09.519 So I'm talking, I'm like I am showing an understanding of the world that they're existing in. 00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:10.720 Yeah, I thought it was great. 00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:14.319 I thought and then I am talking about what I can do to solve it. 00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:24.000 Like I'm talking about comp plans a lot, but I'm not saying like we help organizations reorganize their comp plans and our, right? 00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:26.319 Like it's just such a small pivot. 00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:34.640 It's you know, it's one of those things, and I say this often, um, that so much of what I teach and I help my clients with is simple but not easy. 00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:41.599 It's simple in that once you hear it, you're like, well, well, yeah, like that that totally makes sense. 00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:45.920 It's it's it's intuitive once you I hear you say it out loud, I believe you. 00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:59.839 Uh, but it's not easy because without the right mindsets and techniques and processes to bring it to life, we just default back to bad habits. 00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:17.199 And what's fastest and what's fastest is for us to just write a generic email about our product features because we don't have to put that extra time and energy into thinking about cognitive load and thinking about relevance and thinking about how we earn the right to the recipient's attention and time. 00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:18.320 I love it. 00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:19.840 Last question. 00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:27.599 How what is the is there an ideal length of an email sequence when we're doing cold outreach? 00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:36.639 You know what's so funny is that the old like eight touch points that has been true since I started in sales and the auth, still true. 00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:37.039 Okay. 00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:49.360 So all yes, of all the many things that have have changed and morphed and iterated over the past 20 years that I have been teaching uh sales, that is one that hasn't changed. 00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:55.599 Um one caveat I would add is that it is still eight touch points. 00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:58.000 Um, I always start my clients at eight to 12. 00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:10.159 So if you're looking for a range, no less than eight, and then cap yourself at 12 and then run that a few times, you can go back and look at the data and be like, oh, well, I didn't really hear from people until 11 or 12. 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:19.039 So maybe you want to add 13 or 14 to see if you get a few more replies, or maybe you run it at 12 and you realize that after nine, you got no replies. 00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:20.960 So then you can trim those last first steps. 00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:23.760 So, like, you know, test it and then listen to your data. 00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:34.320 Um, but one of the things that is true now that wasn't true 20 years ago when I started and it was eight touches, is that those eight touches need to be across three channels. 00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:35.039 Good job. 00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:55.199 Because if we look at the data, the um reply rate, like the return on your outreach, it's like depending on what data set, it's like 200 to 287% improvement on reply rate to your sequences once you get over three channels. 00:35:55.440 --> 00:36:01.599 So, you know, eight touches, but make sure there's

some diversity in in how and where those touches are happening. 00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:02.079 Right. 00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:08.239 And so when we talk about channels, it could be a comment on LinkedIn, it could be a share or something on LinkedIn. 00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:11.679 Would that be a separate channel of connection for them? 00:36:12.159 --> 00:36:13.280 Um, yes. 00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:15.440 Yes. 00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:16.000 Okay. 00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:19.039 So what do you when you say channels, what comes to mind for you? 00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:20.239 Yes. 00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:25.119 So the most common three channels for my clients are phone, email, LinkedIn. 00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:25.840 Oh, okay. 00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:26.320 Okay. 00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:28.880 Um, but it can be any social media. 00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:31.360 Obviously, it doesn't have to be LinkedIn. 00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:39.760 Um, other channels that I try to build in when, you know, when I have clients that are willing to be a little bit more creative, um, are direct mail. 00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:40.239 Right. 00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:44.000 Um, and this can be as simple as like a handwritten note. 00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:48.079 Or I have some clients that will use gifting platforms. 00:36:48.159 --> 00:36:52.880 So, like there's a you know, a broad swath of ways that you can incorporate direct mail. 00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:54.880 Um, and then also events. 00:36:55.039 --> 00:37:05.920 And so that could be getting somebody to attend a live webinar, or perhaps you are meeting them at an event, or you're going to an event and there's going to be some sort of interaction. 00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:13.199 Um, so it it doesn't have to be email, LinkedIn, uh, and phone, but those are the three most common ones. 00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:15.840 And we think about something like LinkedIn. 00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:20.400 What wouldn't count is just like me posting a post. 00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:21.440 Right. 00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:32.960 Um, and probably challenging to build a sequence um where it's just a comment on a post. 00:37:33.199 --> 00:37:55.360 You'd have to be really thoughtful about like, okay, am I selling to social media managers where these people are creating content daily, if not at least weekly, and there's gonna be enough content for me to know that I can consistently leave a comment on a recent post. 00:37:55.519 --> 00:38:03.199 So you'd have to think through whether or not that was a touch point that actually earned their attention, or if it's a check the box touch point. 00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:07.760 Generally, we do um a blank connect message. 00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:17.519 And then uh a little bit later, once they've had some time to accept and like maybe they've seen some of our comments or posts, um, we'll send a direct message. 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:18.239 Okay. 00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:18.639 Okay. 00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:23.840 So we're messaging them directly, not kind of playing around the edges, you're going right to them. 00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:25.119 Very good. 00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:27.199 Yeah, I mean, you can do you can do both. 00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:30.000 Like the the more, the more the merrier. 00:38:30.159 --> 00:39:07.119 But if we think about the difference between um social selling, which is using social channels as a say as a direct sales method, that is a little bit different than I think building sort of a a brand persona and interacting with folks through your brand persona, um, which for a business owner, if they have a strong platform and like they have, you know, some credibility or some some fame, that could work. 00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:18.639 But if somebody's like, oh, I'm just gonna create a profile tomorrow and go comment on a hundred posts, like I hate to say this, but like nobody cares because they don't they don't know you. 00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:27.519 So it's there's some nuance there because there has to be some sort of like credibility and parasocial connection for those comments to really be meaningful. 00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:29.360 Yeah, and I thought you brought up a good point. 00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:37.119 I mean, you don't know who's monitoring that LinkedIn channel, so you can like and share, and the person you're trying to get the attention of might not even be monitoring that. 00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:43.360 So okay, so connection and make make a uh um send them a direct message. 00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:44.320 Very cool. 00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:46.800 This has been valuable info. 00:39:46.960 --> 00:40:01.119 So of all the things we've talked about here today, and there's been a lot, put a bow on it and let us know how can a business owner take all this information and get started, take those baby steps to start scaling from here. 00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:10.559 Yeah, I mean, honestly, the three frameworks that I gave folks today, well, I guess two frameworks and the audit. 00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:17.599 That's something that'll often run with sales orgs as like a$20,000 four-hour in-person workshop. 00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:20.320 So, so people got some real nuggets. 00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:23.440 You don't get my hand holding to walk you through it. 00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:37.199 But like what I would do is I would block out two hours in my calendar and I would take five emails that I had previously written, and then I would run them through that I versus you audit. 00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:49.039 I'd run them through the 110-100 test, and then I would challenge myself to rewrite the copy using that feature advantage benefit sales messaging model. 00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:50.480 Very cool. 00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:51.840 Yeah, I thought it was great. 00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:54.239 Those are super, super frameworks, Leslie. 00:40:54.320 --> 00:40:54.800 Thank you so much. 00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:56.880 We really appreciate having you on the show. 00:40:57.119 -->

00:40:58.000 Great information. 00:40:58.159 --> 00:40:58.880 Thank you so much. 00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:05.519 And if people want to get in touch with you or buy your book or learn more about you, how can we do that? 00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:12.880 Yes, I am on uh Instagram, on LinkedIn, on YouTube, all just my name, Leslie Vinette. 00:41:13.119 --> 00:41:16.239 So find uh connect with me on social media. 00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:22.079 Um, and then my book is at salesled gtm.com slash book. 00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:25.760 Um, and it's free right now on Spotify. 00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:28.960 It's what it's free right now on Spotify Premium. 00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:32.880 So if people have the premium, you can get the um audiobook for free. 00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:34.400 So super cool. 00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:35.440 Yeah, cool. 00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:36.800 Well, thank you so much for your time. 00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:37.599 Great conversation. 00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:38.159 I enjoyed it. 00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:38.639 Thank you. 00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:42.159 Yeah, wishing everybody that listened uh just a tremendous amount of success. 00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:43.360 Thanks, Leslie. 00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:44.320 All right, there you go. 00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:49.280 Leslie Vinett's um incredible information, super valuable. 00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:50.719 Dive into that. 00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:58.000 I mean, find the transcript and and get those nuggets about what she was talking about, some really valuable information. 00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:00.400 Get ready for our next episode. 00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:12.320 We're gonna be talking to Ben Watkins, and he is actually he is another B2B email can um he's gonna be talking about B2B email campaigns and how to get from outbound to product launches. 00:42:12.559 --> 00:42:22.000 So Leslie did a great job about talking about the format of those emails and what people are looking for, and then Ben is really gonna talk about the whole progression. 00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:28.400 So we we start with a cold person, how do we get them to that product launch or that demo or whatever it is we're talking about? 00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:30.480 So it should be a very good episode as well. 00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:31.760 We're excited about that. 00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:35.840 Don't forget to subscribe if you haven't already become a free member. 00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:41.760 You can get into the members area, see some of those conversations that we've continued on with our guests. 00:42:41.920 --> 00:42:44.239 Lots more valuable information in there for you. 00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:45.280 It's free to sign up. 00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:51.039 We just need your name and email so we can send you uh the information to get access. 00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:52.559 It's pretty simple. 00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:54.239 That's all I got for you today. 00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:54.880 Thanks for listening. 00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:58.320 I'm Corey Harlock, and remember, you've built a real business. 00:42:58.480 --> 00:43:02.079 The next question is how do you scale from here?