Full Transcript for A Different Approach to Bodybuilding

So I started training for bodybuilding somewhere in 2020 37 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,680 or 2021, probably halfway through 2020, and was just 38 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,240 trying to, you know, look better, basically. 39 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:06,000 And I started off in, I would say not a great place 40 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:11,160 physically. I was like 165 lbs skinny fat. 41 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:17,840 I was like 20% body fat on DEXA. And I, you know, saw a lot of 42 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:23,880 improvements over those years and got more and more into it 43 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,640 and just more invested in it, more obsessed, just living the 44 00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:32,400 bodybuilding lifestyle. And then last year around the 45 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:38,320 same time, so kind of late April, I did a photo shoot and 46 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,840 Alberto Nunez actually had a really excellent like four or 47 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,720 five minute video about why you should do a photo shoot 1st and 48 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,200 not a contest prep. And I was like halfway through 49 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:50,680 my photo shoot prep at that point. 50 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,320 So that was very validating and I agreed with a lot of the 51 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:58,000 points he made and I had a great experience with that. 52 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,520 It was really fun getting lean, obviously not show lean, but 53 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,920 really enjoyed the process. And then you know, I was kind of 54 00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:09,200 thinking about my next goal and of course, you know, you get 55 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,920 people in the gym and online saying you should compete, you 56 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:14,720 should compete. But I never really had a desire 57 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:19,960 to. And then I just bit the got bit 58 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,720 by the bug. I was just really excited to 59 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,080 test myself to go through that journey. 60 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,880 You know, following along your your comp preps has been super 61 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,320 inspiring, Robert, seeing the amount of growth you've gotten 62 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:37,760 from it mentally, spiritually. And I wanted to test myself. 63 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,880 I wanted to see, you know, just on a personal level if I could 64 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:47,400 do it, if I could get to stage and I wanted the challenge and I 65 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,600 wanted something, something to work towards and the stars kind 66 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,640 of aligned. We were getting a our second 67 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:58,000 dog, our puppy, at the end of the year and so I knew we 68 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,320 weren't going to be travelling for the first few months of the 69 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:06,880 year because we wanted to be with her

as she grew And yeah, 70 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,000 it it just worked out really well to do a show in early 71 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:11,400 April. I love it, man. 72 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,200 I love it. The the thing about doing a prep 73 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,839 that a lot of people that have never done one don't realize 74 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,640 until they start doing one is that it's so much more of a 75 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:22,560 psychological sport than they realize. 76 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:24,800 I mean when you're when you're deep into a prep like your 77 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,920 months into a deficit, your calories are low, your sleep is 78 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,760 deprived. I mean it it it is way beyond 79 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,400 the scope of just going to the gym and and and working out 80 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,320 hard. Like there is a total mental 81 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,000 component to it that I feel like doesn't really get talked about 82 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,480 enough. And that's the beauty of the 83 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,240 sport, in my opinion. Not so much the the figure on 84 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,840 stage, but like the actual transformative mental growth. 85 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,240 100% Couldn't agree more. So when you were going through, 86 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:52,880 how long was your prep in totality? 87 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:59,720 So I started kind of like a clean up phase in December where 88 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,640 I went into like a minor deficit but wasn't really like going 89 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,600 full gung ho. And then around the start of the 90 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,360 year, January is where I I really started to dig in. 91 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,440 So it was like 17 weeks of deficit in total. 92 00:05:15,840 --> 00:05:19,080 And yeah, it it, it was, it was great. 93 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,760 I probably needed last time and probably my next prep will be 94 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,920 shorter, but that worked out well because there was a week in 95 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,720 January where I got COVID and was actually in the hospital for 96 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,040 a week. So that was a very intense, I 97 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,480 couldn't breathe. My blood oxygen level was like 98 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,000 90, if you're at all familiar with that. 99 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:45,400 The order ring has it actually. Below 95 is when you're supposed 100 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,680 to go to the hospital, so 90 is really low. 101 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:53,600 My resting heart rate at one point was 160 and I was having 102 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,040 fevers. I was sleeping less than an hour 103 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,040 a night. I was in a lot of pain. 104 00:05:58,040 --> 00:05:59,760 I was the sickest I've ever been. 105 00:06:00,200 -->

00:06:04,160 And then later on in the prep I had some really bad digestion 106 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,400 issues for like a week and 1/2, so it was helpful to have that 107 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,640 extra time. Well, I want to, I want to peel 108 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,040 the curtain back on all the different stats, man. 109 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,880 So when you started the prep, what was your weight, calories, 110 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:18,720 macro distribution like? What did that look like? 111 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:27,040 Yeah, I I was 225 lbs And I was, you know, decently lean. 112 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:28,560 I don't think anyone would call me fat. 113 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,840 I definitely had room to bulk more, but I also carry body fat 114 00:06:32,840 --> 00:06:37,880 really well. I'm 5 foot 9 1/2 official height 115 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:44,760 from the show and I was probably around 5:00 or five and a half, 116 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:50,560 1000 calories and I follow a more traditional bodybuilding 117 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:55,600 style diet now where it's basically chicken or beef and 118 00:06:55,600 --> 00:07:01,000 rice and some zucchini and some fruit and not much else. 119 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:09,080 So I was probably consuming around 250 grams of protein, you 120 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,320 know, 60 grams of fat and the rest coming from carbs. 121 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,960 So, you know, 809 hundred grams of carbs. 122 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,600 And what did, what did that look like as you get deeper and 123 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,480 deeper into the 17 weeks that when you get to the show day, 124 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,280 what was your calories like there at the at the depth of the 125 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,640 deficit? Yeah, the deficit didn't get 126 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:33,640 lower than like 3300 calories. So I burned through food and I 127 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,400 was losing a good 2 to 3 lbs a week for most of prep. 128 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:44,120 And we were also doing refeeds one to three times a week where 129 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:49,000 I would go up to 900 or so grams of carbs. 130 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,520 So very high food all the way through. 131 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,520 And that's mostly coming from rice you said? 132 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,040 Yeah, white rice. And what was your digestion 133 00:07:58,040 --> 00:07:59,720 like? You know when you would have 134 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,720 those massive bolus of carbohydrates? 135 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,400 Very good, very good. I I can tolerate white rice very 136 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,280 well. And you know, going all the way 137 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,200 back to my carnivore days, I was strict carnivore, you know, No 138 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:19,520 cheats, no, practically no cheese, even for three years. 139 00:08:20,760

--> 00:08:24,640 And then at the end of 2019, actually just after I got 140 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:29,680 married, I was having issues where I couldn't maintain my 141 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:34,039 weight on just eating carnivore foods, and I couldn't digest 142 00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:39,480 more than 150 grams of fat a day for any consistent period of 143 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,760 time. I would get bloating. 144 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:46,600 I would get really bad burping in the middle of the night, very 145 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:48,600 far away from meals. And I tried everything. 146 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,120 I tried switching fat sources, only consuming suet. 147 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:58,800 I tried, you know, different meal timings, meal frequency, 148 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:04,160 and regardless, whenever I went above 150 grams of fat I felt 149 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,680 great physically. But then after like a week of 150 00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:11,560 doing that, it would consistently get to, I get those 151 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,840 those issues. And so I that just meant, you 152 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,760 know, if I need 4000 calories to maintain my, my weight at the 153 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:25,880 time, I would need to consume massive amounts of protein. 154 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,160 You know, if you're only consuming 100 grams of fat, no 155 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,720 carbs, you can do the math on how much protein that is. 156 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,240 And that comes with a whole host of issues. 157 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,800 You know, having that much protein consistently, You're 158 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,720 peeing all the time. You're sweating a lot. 159 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:47,640 You just don't feel great doing carnivore with that high protein 160 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,880 long term. And so that's when I started 161 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,760 working with Seamland. You know him. 162 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,280 Yeah. Yeah. 163 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:01,880 And he advised me, you know, try having like a banana before bed 164 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,760 and and some honey. And I tolerated that very well 165 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:10,680 and basically went through a whole 30 diet style food 166 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:15,440 reintroduction protocol where every three days I would test a 167 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,360 new food, not a food group, but a single food like strawberries. 168 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,080 And I would have one serving of strawberries once a day for 169 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,440 three days. I would note down my digestion, 170 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,160 how it made me feel, my energy, all those things. 171 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,160 And I would keep strict log and then after three days I would 172 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,000 return back to baseline diet, carnivore diet, and then I would 173

00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,120 try a new food. And I did that very slowly and I 174 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,120 found the foods that agreed with me and didn't. 175 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,280 And my digestion of a lot of foods was better than before I 176 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,640 did car in 2016 when I started. And I found the ones I could 177 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:54,520 tolerate really well, like white rice and Greek yogurt and 178 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,600 certain fruits and the ones I couldn't tolerate so well like 179 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:03,680 broccoli and cruciferous vegetables and oatmeal and stuff 180 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:06,320 like that. So that's how I kind of made the 181 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,800 switch from carnivore to eating more carbs. 182 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,920 Man, it's kind of crazy if it's been three years since you were 183 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:13,680 strict carbon. I think that was the last time 184 00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:15,680 you and I were on a podcast together when you were doing 185 00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:17,960 strict carnivore. So that just blows my mind. 186 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:19,160 That was three years ago, man. That's. 187 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:19,560 Crazy. Yeah. 188 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,600 Yeah, crazy. So do you have any idea now, 189 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,320 like any theories hindsight now, as to why your body was having 190 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,280 so much trouble digesting more than 150 grams of fat? 191 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,800 I think it was just insufficient bile production. 192 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,360 And you know, I tried everything. 193 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,880 You can imagine lipase, digestive enzymes, like I said, 194 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:42,880 changing fat sources, things like that. 195 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:48,400 And I could probably, if I did it again gradually, I could work 196 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,000 my way up to tolerating more fat and maybe I'll do that in the 197 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,880 future. But I worked a lot with Judy 198 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,600 from nutrition with Judy, and we just couldn't solve the the fat 199 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,280 thing. And I was in a lot of pain and, 200 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,440 you know, not sleeping well because I'd be all up all night 201 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,640 burping. And so the solution at the time 202 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:10,880 was to introduce some carbs so that I could eat enough without 203 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,160 having those issues. Out of curiosity, do you ever 204 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:15,840 drink carbonated beverages or no? 205 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:18,760 No, not really. Because I was having a little 206 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,320 bit of indigestion and I I just cut out drinking like Xevias and 207 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,680 carbonated waters and that totally solved my problems 208 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,640 because I yeah. When I when I do, it definitely 209 00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:29,680 makes things worse, but I I avoid them. 210 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,600 Yeah, it's so strange, man. Like, it's really just goes to 211 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,360 show that people can be so highly individualized when it 212 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,080 comes to nutrition. I mean, I'm taking in like 450 213 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:43,120 grams of fat a day on average right now and my my digestion 214 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,000 has been pretty solid. Like I haven't had any issues 215 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:46,440 whatsoever. That's all. 216 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,920 I can't imagine being capped at 150 grams wanting to maintain a 217 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,040 carnivore diet and then have to consume the excess in protein to 218 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,920 hit 4000 calories and that would be a ton of protein. 219 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,400 Yeah, exactly, it was. Yeah, no bueno, we'll talk to me 220 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,080 a little bit about the, so the prep itself you're you're 221 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,920 getting down, you didn't have to drop below 3000 calories, which 222 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,920 is nice. What did you do with regards to 223 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,520 like cardio and resistance training throughout that time? 224 00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:15,800 Yeah, so I I in the offseason, I was training six days a week. 225 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,840 I was doing push, pull leg, not in this particular order, but 226 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:21,360 push, pull legs, push, pull legs. 227 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:26,200 And as I transitioned into prep, I switched it to five days a 228 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,200 week, just adding a rest day but keeping the same split. 229 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:33,840 So rotate like push legs, pull, push legs one week and then the 230 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:39,280 next week would be pull, push legs, pull, push, etcetera. 231 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,080 And that worked out really well for me. 232 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,920 And then cardio. I just increased steps for like 233 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:52,960 the first ten weeks of prep. And then once I got to like 234 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:58,600 14,000 steps, I started doing cardio on the elliptical 2 days 235 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,680 a week. And I started at 30 minutes and 236 00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:04,120 I gradually got up to 50 minutes. 237 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,320 A pretty low intensity and I probably didn't even need to do 238 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,520 that realistically. Like I probably could have just 239 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:16,680 done it with food, but that's what my coach had me do. 240 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:18,680 Yeah, well, there's always trade-offs. 241 00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:21,760 I mean, if you can do

more cardio but eat more food, like 242 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,800 some people find that more sustainable versus less food, do 243 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,200 more cardio. Lots of different ways of skin a 244 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:28,680 cat. But I think only doing two days 245 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,080 a week of cardio is good. I mean, some people, they're 246 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,600 doing cardio like seven days a week, man, which to me I think 247 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,040 is definitely a point of diminishing returns because then 248 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,240 it's just going to be harder to recover from the weight training 249 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:40,160 and that's what you want to prioritize. 250 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,320 Absolutely. And I I enjoy cardio. 251 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,720 I I love doing it. I feel good doing it. 252 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,640 So part of it was also a mental thing. 253 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,640 It was nice to on the days I was not weight training to get on 254 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,120 the elliptical. But yeah, absolutely. 255 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,080 I'm nowhere near the people who have to do like split cardio 256 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,520 sessions every day or something like that. 257 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,320 Yeah, totally, totally. What about like peak week 258 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,960 itself, like with you doing more of a carbohydrate based 259 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:07,640 approach? How did you kind of go about 260 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:13,120 your peaking strategy? Yeah, so like two weeks out, we 261 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,040 started adding back in more food. 262 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,280 We were still doing the refeeds the whole time, but it went down 263 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,360 to like one or two refeeds a week towards the end. 264 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:26,480 And then at like 2 weeks out, we started refeeding and just 265 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,400 started gradually increasing my base calories too, because I was 266 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,680 just ripping through food like I said. 267 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:38,520 And you know, by the last week it was just my base diet got up 268 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:43,840 to like 700 grams of carbs a day and we didn't do any like big 269 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:48,520 carbohydrate load days at all. We just increased the food to 270 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,920 the point I wasn't losing weight anymore and kind of tried to 271 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:55,320 hold it going into peak week. So no, no special tricks really, 272 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:00,160 just trying to maintain where I was because the look was really 273 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:06,280 good and then you know, kept water nice and high above 5 274 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:10,720 liters. And then the day, I think 275 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:17,600 Thursday I went down to like

3 liters either Thursday or 276 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:23,280 Friday, the show was Saturday and just was a little bit, a lot 277 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,760 more cautious with water leading into the show to get a little 278 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,680 bit of a drier look. But still pretty hydrated. 279 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,760 I mean 3 liters a day. Like you weren't cutting water 280 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,320 at any point. I felt that felt like very 281 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,920 little water to me. Yeah, 3 liters is not much, but 282 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,600 I mean, I I've heard some horror stories of people like literally 283 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,600 no fluid consumption at all 48 hours prior. 284 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,400 And to me, that's just actually for disaster. 285 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,360 No, no, I think that's pretty dumb. 286 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,160 Especially when you're using carbohydrates. 287 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,840 You know you need water to help help fill up and store the 288 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,280 carbohydrates. I don't know what it's like with 289 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:03,000 fat loading if it's similar, but yeah, I I definitely needed some 290 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:08,560 carbs to need some water. Excuse me to help carry myself 291 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:09,760 into the show. Yeah. 292 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,319 I mean, you think about it like a lot of, I mean, it's like 293 00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:15,280 water is what fills out our muscles. 294 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,359 So like these competitors that are trying to actually, you 295 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,720 know, take a bunch of diuretics and and dehydrate themselves in 296 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,240 hopes that they're going to look, you know, leaner, crisper 297 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,480 and drier, It's like they wind up just looking flatter and 298 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:27,040 flatter, which is not a good look either. 299 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,680 Exactly, yeah. And I I'm definitely a guy who 300 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,960 has a tendency to look flatter. Like I said, I burned through 301 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:38,480 food so we weren't aggressive with the water manipulation and 302 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,880 I am enhanced. I'm not a natural athlete, so I 303 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,320 but I didn't use any diuretics. Nice. 304 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:45,720 Well, what's that happening to that man? 305 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:47,360 I mean, if you're open to talking about it, I feel like 306 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,920 there's a lot of controversy and confusion around the whole natty 307 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:55,360 or not topic and last stance as a as a natural bodybuilder has 308 00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:57,400 always been like look to each their own. 309 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,280 I'm not here to judge anybody. I want to see

what I can do 310 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,240 naturally. But I mean, I've got multiple 311 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,800 friends that compete in enhanced shows that are enhanced. 312 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:06,840 And it's like, I mean, I obviously don't hold anything 313 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:08,400 against them. It's like like I said to each 314 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,800 their own. So what made you go that route? 315 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,920 What are some of the changes that being enhanced brought to 316 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:15,600 the prep itself? I just kind of walked me through 317 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,360 that. Yeah, so I have utmost respect 318 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:22,640 for natural bodybuilders. I think it's so cool seeing guys 319 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:27,360 like you and Alberto Nunez and all the people you coach compete 320 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,800 at Colt and everyone. I think it's awesome. 321 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:37,240 But for me, I was hypogonadal coming out of rowing in college 322 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,680 and actually had to go on testosterone replacement therapy 323 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,720 medically before I even started bodybuilding. 324 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,440 So I I didn't have any hopes of competing in natural shows 325 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:54,200 because of that. And then, you know, just being 326 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,520 the scientifically minded, curious person and wanting to 327 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,400 experiment and try to see what I could accomplish. 328 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:07,440 I started doing more than TRT back in like late 2020, early 329 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:11,480 21, and I was very conservative with it. 330 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,160 You know, I worked with very intelligent coaches who use the 331 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,000 least amount you need to continue to make progress. 332 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,880 And then, yeah, when it came time for the show, it was just 333 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:29,160 continuing with that path. I'd say, like I said, I think 334 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,960 enhanced bodybuilders can get away with shorter preps, 335 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,600 especially someone like me who leans out really quickly like 336 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:41,720 natural bodybuilders sometimes have to do 20 to 25 week preps, 337 00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:44,600 but that's definitely not the case for most enhanced 338 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,960 bodybuilders. And you don't want to expose 339 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,480 yourself to to drugs for that long too. 340 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,800 So yeah, I was, I went through the prep. 341 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,080 I used some drugs I hadn't used before. 342 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,000 Drugs that you usually only use in a contest prep like like 343 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,120 trend blown. But I only used them and my 344 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:09,160 coach only implemented them when my progress was stalled and I 345 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,280 needed them. It was never, you know, you're 346 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,440 going to take all these drugs right from the start it was OK 347 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,920 we're at this point progress is where it is. 348 00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:20,840 We're going to introduce a little bit of this to help speed 349 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:25,040 things along and we just gradually increased going into 350 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,200 the show. And then, you know, when you get 351 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,560 like, oh, two weeks out, you start cutting a lot of those 352 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:35,120 things out too, to drop some of the inflammation, drop the fluid 353 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,880 and come in with a a more relaxed and healthy physique. 354 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,720 Yeah, totally. This is honestly an area that I 355 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,480 have very little knowledge. I enjoy listening to podcasts 356 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,120 that dive deep into it. I listen to a lot of, you know, 357 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,840 more plates, more dates, Derek's podcast and like on Rogan 358 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,040 talking about the different substances and kind of what 359 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,280 their use case scenarios are. So I'd love to just peel the 360 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:02,080 curtain back on that. Yeah, because I want to learn 361 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:03,440 more about this. Not because I'm going to use it 362 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,720 myself, but I want to be able to just be more versed in the 363 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,120 subject matter. Sure. 364 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:09,160 So before we dive into that though, I know you've got a 365 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,040 puppy. I've actually got a puppy right 366 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:12,960 now, too. He's chewing on my foot. 367 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:14,960 You gotta let your dog out. I gotta let my dog out. 368 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:16,240 So let's reconvene. At 5. 369 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:18,040 Cool. Sounds good. 370 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:18,840 Thanks. All right, bud. 371 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,920 Boom, we are back. A quick little deviation here. 372 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,840 What kind of puppy you get? I have a cockapoo. 373 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:34,960 She's 11 lbs and she is crazy. She terrorizes both me and my 374 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:39,000 wife and our older dog who's a 30 LB Labradoodle. 375 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,240 Cockapoos. That's got to be a Cocker 376 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,880 spaniel and a what? Poodle. 377 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:45,840 Poodle. OK, nice, nice. 378 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,200 We had a Cocker spaniel when I was a kid. 379 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,120 My mom's dog. Super sweet little dog. 380

00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:54,080 I've got a Connie Corso now. So he's going to be like 150 381 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,040 lbs. He's probably 40 lbs now. 382 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,200 He's 12 weeks old. Oh, wow. 383 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,360 So quite the beast indeed. Well, sweet man, let's just get 384 00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:04,440 right back on track here. So talk to me a little bit. 385 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:09,400 You said when you got done with rowing you were you've taken TRT 386 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,880 there, so was that just a simple, you know, biweekly 387 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:17,640 testosterone shot? Yeah, yeah, So preface anything 388 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,440 I say that this is not medical advice and you should talk to 389 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,680 your doctor before taking anything and only take things 390 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:30,440 that are legal in your country. But yeah, I So when I finished 391 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:36,560 rowing in College in 2013 and coming out of that, I had a lot 392 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:45,400 of digestive and hormonal issues and I was, you know, working out 393 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,840 and eating well, you know, paleo, then keto, then 394 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,080 carnivore. Excuse me. 395 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:56,960 And I was just pretty tired a lot of the time. 396 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:01,880 Wasn't sleeping well, felt a lot better on carnivore than 397 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,800 anything else. But still experiencing not great 398 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:14,840 body composition not great mood. And I had a DEXA scan done and I 399 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:19,240 was three Z scores below the mean in terms of bone mineral 400 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,840 density. So I had below osteoporosis 401 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:29,120 levels of bone and so that prompted an endocrinologist to 402 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:33,720 test my testosterone and all my other hormones and my 403 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,960 testosterone came back extremely low. 404 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,240 It was 100 nanograms per deciliter. 405 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:43,400 Consistently over the course of the year they retested it, it 406 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:49,320 was always around 100 to 150 and normal for a man of any age. 407 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:56,120 The range is like 350 to 900. So I had the levels of bone mass 408 00:23:56,120 --> 00:24:00,360 of a 8 year old grandma and the testosterone levels of a woman. 409 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,040 Not ideal for bodybuilding. Yeah, not ideal for bodybuilding 410 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:09,880 or for health. And so I spent a lot of time 411 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,960 researching and understanding my options, talking to a bunch of 412 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,560 different doctors. And eventually they suggested 413 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,520 that I needed to go on TRT because you need

not only 414 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,960 testosterone, but more importantly estrogen to have 415 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,160 good levels of bone and bone mass. 416 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,360 And that's a big reason that women get osteoporosis when 417 00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:33,080 they're post menopause, cuz your body doesn't produce as much 418 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,040 estrogen. And so I went on TRT starting in 419 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:43,160 2017, and my body composition improved. 420 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,120 I was sleeping better. My mood went from Scott, You 421 00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:49,120 never smile. You're always flat. 422 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:53,240 You're so stoic to, you know, having more of a zest for life 423 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,000 and enjoying things and actually being motivated to do things 424 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,640 both professionally, personally, in the gym, everything. 425 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,440 And I felt way better. And within three years, I gained 426 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,320 on DEXA 28 lbs of muscle and I lost 16 lbs of fat. 427 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:17,760 So I improved a lot, eating carnivore training, you know, 428 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:24,360 four days a week in the gym and just living, living healthily. 429 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,200 And yeah, that's that's kind of what got me started. 430 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,720 And that as far as like dosage goes, I've had several different 431 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,800 hormone specialists on the podcast and the unanimous 432 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,400 consensus now seems to be that, you know, a a moderate dose 433 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,400 every few days is significantly better than like the hero dose 434 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,760 that used to be prescribed like on a monthly basis or then it 435 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,000 was like every two weeks. But now it's kind of like you 436 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:51,960 want to have a relatively consistent intake. 437 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,560 That way your body's never having these massive spikes in 438 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,920 valleys. Yeah, ideally you do daily 439 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,120 injections, some kind of like micro dosing, testosterone 440 00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:04,280 because that mostly closely mimics your natural production. 441 00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:10,320 And a normal TRT dose is anywhere between 100 and 200 442 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,440 milligrams per week. And I was a bit of a hyper 443 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,400 responder. I was on 125 milligrams a week 444 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:24,040 and I was at the very top of the reference range for testosterone 445 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:29,760 at 100 and. 25 milligrams a week dosage, Yeah, nice. 446 00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:33,240 And then you were just maintaining that throughout the 447 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,760 prep And then did you change that dosage at all throughout 448 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:37,840 the prep just with the test? No. 449 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,000 So that was, that was when I was on TRT and then when I started 450 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:47,200 getting into using more and using other drugs, you know, I I 451 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:52,920 brought up my base testosterone to like 250 to 300 milligrams a 452 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,480 week. And I would layer on other other 453 00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:01,760 drugs too on top of that over the course of, you know, 2020 to 454 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,160 when I eventually competed this year. 455 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,640 And what, what, what works? Like I'd. 456 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,600 I'd love to just kind of peel the curtain back on that to the 457 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,040 people that are looking into this from a performance 458 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,440 standpoint, like what drugs are doing what to the body from a 459 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,920 standpoint, from a strength standpoint, from a hypertrophy 460 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,200 standpoint, like where you find the benefit and what is likely 461 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,040 not necessary. Yeah. 462 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,440 So if you followed more plates, more dates or if your audience 463 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:35,040 has, you may be familiar with the idea that it's much there's 464 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,560 no such thing as safe in using PE DS. 465 00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:43,880 But a safer approach and a more effective approach in terms of 466 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:49,600 results is taking the minimum effective dose of a lot of drugs 467 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:54,160 versus just hammering 1 pathway. So there are different pathways 468 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:59,040 that you can use with PEDs. There's the anabolics pathway, 469 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,240 there's the growth hormone pathway, there's the insulin 470 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:09,600 pathway, there's the ARB pathway, angiotensin receptor 471 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,680 blocker, which is like blood pressure drugs. 472 00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:17,360 And when you use a little bit of each of those to get the most 473 00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:21,200 out of each pathway, it's safer and also more effective than 474 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,200 just using a ton of anabolics, just one pathway. 475 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:31,920 And so going through each of those anabolics, it's always 476 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:38,920 smart for the base of any cycle or or anyone using TRT or 477 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,040 otherwise to start with testosterone. 478 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,040 Testosterone is technically not an anabolic steroid. 479 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,560 Anabolic steroids, the technical definition, is anything that's a 480 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:53,480 derivative of testosterone. So

testosterone is what's called 481 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,000 bioidentical, meaning it's the same as what's produced in your 482 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,040 body. You produce testosterone as a 483 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,840 natural human being, and so it makes the most sense that you 484 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,840 would use that first, because that's what your body's used to, 485 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,480 it's what it produces. And there are things that 486 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,640 testosterone derives into, that your body needs. 487 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:19,000 Testosterone turns into in your body estrogen, which you need 488 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,040 for cardio protection, you need for brain health, you need for 489 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,000 fat loss, you need for muscle building, you need for joint 490 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,280 health. All these things. 491 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:33,440 It derives into DHT dihydrotestosterone, which is 492 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,200 important for mood, for sexual function. 493 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,280 It's also what nukes your hair and makes you grow body hair 494 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,960 nukes the hair on your head and then it also derives into free 495 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,800 testosterone, which is the most anabolic piece. 496 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,320 So when people get their testosterone checked, they 497 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,400 usually get total testosterone, which is just the total amount 498 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,000 of testosterone your body is producing, and then free 499 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,360 testosterone, which is what it's derived into. 500 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,720 That's most important for hypertrophy and and building 501 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:09,920 lean tissue. Did you so? 502 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,880 Testosterone is always the base. Did did you by chance get your 503 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:18,720 labs drawn at the depth of your cut to see what that drop in 504 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,440 body fat and just overall caloric intake did to impact 505 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:22,960 that? Or did you try and offset that 506 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,560 to maintain a certain level exogenously? 507 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:33,560 Yeah, so I I I get my lab work done every two to three months. 508 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,880 Most people on drugs or on TRT get it twice a year. 509 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,560 But I'm like neurotic about knowing what my blood work is 510 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,840 and trying to do this the healthiest way possible. 511 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,520 I'd say the other thing that I do is I check my blood pressure 512 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,280 multiple times a week. When people think about, you 513 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,800 know, what are the risks with taking performance enhancing 514 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,680 drugs.

Some people think, oh, it's 515 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,240 going to affect your heart, it's going to affect your liver. 516 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:05,680 But what most bodybuilders get sick from or some die from is 517 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,560 actually kidneys. Your kidneys are super 518 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,040 important. And I'd say kidney health is 519 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,720 also a risk for even natural athletes who bulk up to really 520 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,680 high body weights. They're eating a lot of food. 521 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,120 They may not be managing their blood pressure and it may 522 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,920 actually be high and that's that's putting a ton of stress 523 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:27,320 on your kidneys and your heart. So I I check that regularly as 524 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,760 well. And I also get echocardiograms 525 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,160 done every couple years. I get my calcium score, all 526 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,120 those things to try to make sure everything is as healthy as 527 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,360 possible and thankfully it it has been. 528 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:48,480 But with checking testosterone, it's almost not necessary when 529 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,800 you're on TRT or on drugs because you're supplementing 530 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,160 that, right? So you don't need to know what 531 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,560 your testosterone is unless you're on TRT and you're trying 532 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,280 to keep it in like a normal range. 533 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,520 But because I'm taking more than TRT, my testosterone is always 534 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,360 going to be out of range, but it's going to be too high. 535 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:13,080 So it's not going to drop when I'm on prep, it's never really 536 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,280 going to be in range. So that's actually the one blood 537 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,800 marker I don't get. My, I was trying to keep tabs on 538 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,760 mine throughout the prep because you know anytime like like body 539 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,360 fat levels are going to be close related to or tied to you know 540 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,160 what what your hormone levels are doing, the amount of dietary 541 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:30,520 fat you're consuming etcetera, etcetera. 542 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,120 And I think at the depth of my prep, my total tea was down to 543 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:38,240 86 which was just crazy man, but was was wild as I felt really 544 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:39,240 good. I mean, I definitely felt 545 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,280 depleted and hungry and all that stuff, but I didn't really have 546 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,920 this massive drop in just like zeal for life, for energy. 547 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,680 I felt like I was mentally aware and just on top of

things from 548 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,960 performance standpoint. But functioning at the rate that 549 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,840 I was with a total testosterone of 86 was was kind of eye 550 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,520 opening. Yeah, that's that's crazy low. 551 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:06,160 Yeah, some people say enhanced prep is healthier than natural 552 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,520 prep, and I think that's what they're talking about. 553 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,560 Yeah, yeah. I mean they're it's it's so 554 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,320 strange man because like in natural body building they they 555 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,400 ban depending on what federation you're in. 556 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,160 Like they ban so many things many of which would. 557 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,440 I mean research is now coming out to say that hey look, this 558 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:26,120 would be incredibly advantageous to take, especially as you age, 559 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,280 to promote longevity, overall bone health and just overall 560 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,320 function. And a lot of, I mean most of 561 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,160 that is not going to be allowed in natural federations. 562 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,560 So it's kind of like like I get the stance of being completely 563 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,000 natural, that's the the the road I've taken. 564 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,480 But the same time it's like there is a point when I'll reach 565 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,120 an age at which do I want to just simply maintain natural 566 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,080 status to be able to compete naturally or do I want to just 567 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,280 focus on improving health and longevity. 568 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,040 And I feel like, you know, I'm going to have to hit that 569 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,360 tipping point at some point or another. 570 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,200 Yeah, absolutely. So it's interesting. 571 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,320 So, so you've got the you're kind of doing a myriad of things 572 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,840 in a healthy range as opposed to like a massive bolus of any one 573 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,120 thing. That is definitely the right way 574 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,040 to go about it. From what I've read and and 575 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,719 researched as well are, are there anything like, were you 576 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:24,199 noticing any decline in any health markers as you went 577 00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:26,360 through the cut and we're implementing more of these 578 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,320 exhaust substances? Yeah, so I I for the first time, 579 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,440 some of my blood markers did get on a range, and it was through 580 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,199 trying drugs, using drugs that I hadn't used before. 581 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,280 And so I found out very quickly because I check my blood work so 582 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,120 often that those things don't work for me. 583 00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:50,000 So for the first time ever I used Winstrol, which is a drug 584 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,440 that's usually used at the end of a prep it. 585 00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:59,160 It creates a really dry look and makes you look like very crispy 586 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:04,120 at the end of prep and you can either take it orally or 587 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,400 injectable. I was using injectable and that 588 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:14,240 threw my liver enzymes sky high. My GGT. 589 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,920 The the problem with liver enzymes which most people when 590 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,640 they think about liver enzymes they think about ALT and AST, 591 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,280 which is what comes back on a standard metabolic panel. 592 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,160 But those are heavily influenced by resistance training. 593 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,720 So if you train hard even like 2 days before getting your blood 594 00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:37,040 work done, your ALT and AST are likely to be high. 595 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,520 And that's not a reflection of liver damage. 596 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:44,480 It's just a reflection of inflammation from hypertrophy, 597 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,560 right. And so the more accurate marker 598 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:53,000 to get is actually GGT, Glucagon, glutotransferase or 599 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,000 something like that. And that doesn't get elevated by 600 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,320 resistance training and it's a more accurate measure of your 601 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,440 liver health. So that was still normal. 602 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:10,000 It, it elevated from what it was normally for me, but it was 603 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,400 still in the normal range. But my ALT and AST were just 604 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,400 skyrocketing and I consulted with some people I trust in the 605 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,920 space and they said, yeah, that can happen with windstrawl, it's 606 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:23,480 normal. It'll go back to normal as soon 607 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,440 as you pull it out. But I didn't want to continue on 608 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,720 in the prep with that in even if it wasn't doing any liver 609 00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:33,480 damage, I just don't like seeing my blood markers that high. 610 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,040 So I pulled it out immediately and you know, two weeks later my 611 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,440 liver enzymes were were closer to normal. 612 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:40,480 Nice. Nice. 613 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:44,200 What about the trimbolone? Yeah, the Trembalone didn't have 614 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,880 any negative side effects on my blood work, and I didn't get a 615 00:36:47,880 -->

00:36:50,600 lot of the side effects that a lot of people experience 616 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,280 increased aggression. Some people, on really high 617 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,680 doses, they get like paranoia, insomnia. 618 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,040 I didn't experience any of that. I did have one side effect, 619 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:06,800 which was really the only side effect I've experienced from any 620 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,920 PD I've taken in a long time, which is I had night sweats, so 621 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:16,080 I would wake up in like a pool of sweat, and the sweat smelled 622 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:17,840 disgusting. It didn't smell like normal 623 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,320 sweat and so that was pretty gross to just like wake up. 624 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,600 Your sheets are soaked, your pillows soaked, You have to, 625 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,640 like, change. And you know, my wife wasn't 626 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:33,440 very happy about that, so that was definitely annoying. 627 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,080 And it went away after like three or four weeks of being on 628 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,120 it. But yeah, that was that was the 629 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,480 one side effect I experienced. And and people are mostly using 630 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,360 trend from a thermogenic standpoint, right? 631 00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:48,960 Yeah, exactly. It's not like really a muscle 632 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,120 builder. What it does is it works on the 633 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:57,840 glucocortisoid receptor, so it like lowers your your stress 634 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,360 response. And it actually is really good 635 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,280 at maintaining muscle in a deficit. 636 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,240 So if you're on trend, it's pretty much impossible to lose 637 00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:09,960 muscle when you're in a calorie deficit. 638 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:15,200 And you know, some people use crazy doses, you know, 500 639 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,600 milligrams a week, a gram a week of trend. 640 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,960 I was using like 25 to 50 milligrams. 641 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:28,920 I was using like 25 milligrams a day, which works out to 175 a 642 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,160 week. So it's really like the minimum 643 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,920 dose to maintain muscle tissue and get an effect without having 644 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,280 a myriad of side effects. Gotcha. 645 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:43,920 When it comes to diet and just macro manipulation and just 646 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:50,520 adherence to a deficit, while in the context of a prep if one is 647 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,160 taking exotic hormones you you're. 648 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,720 I don't want to speak out of turn, but I would imagine you 649 00:38:55,720 --> 00:39:00,040 have a little bit more flexibility with your food 650 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,000 consumption because you can be a little bit more fast and loose 651 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,480 with your consumption like with natural bodybuilders like I'm. 652 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,160 I mean, natural bodybuilders are freaking counting rice grains 653 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,560 and like everything is accounted for, but you can probably get 654 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,400 away with a little bit more from a food dietary standpoint. 655 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,040 Yeah, you can be a little more aggressive with fat loss. 656 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,400 That's why you can often do a a faster prep. 657 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,320 But you know, I I was still extremely precise. 658 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:30,160 I was tracking everything. And you know, I think if you're 659 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:35,480 taking drugs and you're being and you're not tracking your 660 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,240 calories or you're not training hard or you don't have recovery 661 00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:44,120 variables all in place, that's just a total, totally stupid 662 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,880 move, in my, my opinion, very irresponsible. 663 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,320 So you should have everything else dialed before you even 664 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,800 think about using any PDS. And that's the way I treat it. 665 00:39:55,160 --> 00:40:01,520 And I'll also say hunger. You're just as hungry on, if not 666 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,760 hungrier on anabolics as you are as a natural athlete. 667 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:10,400 One of the differences is that's that's interesting is you have 668 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:15,320 to be really careful with refeeds because if you are using 669 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:20,080 anabolics and if you are using thermogenics like clenbuterol 670 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:26,240 and thyroid and stuff like that, you can your your metabolism can 671 00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:30,800 run away from you. Meaning you can start getting 672 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,400 really flat and just losing fat too quickly, and then it's hard 673 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,800 to get like fullness back. So refeeds become even more 674 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,280 important for an enhanced athlete. 675 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:43,600 Gotcha. Gotcha. 676 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,200 What about post show man? Like what did you do post show 677 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,480 with regards to like celebratory meal? 678 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,120 What'd you do with regards to supplementation posture? 679 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,280 Like I'm assuming you'd, you'd probably want to taper these 680 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,720 drugs off in a similar fashion to how you incorporate them, as 681 00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:02,160 opposed to just cutting them completely. 682 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,160 Yeah. So for me, I and my coach, he 683

00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:14,360 had me cut out all anabolics and trend, including trend like 8 684 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,360 days out. And that's for a few reasons. 685 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,200 One, to to dry out. Two, to make sure you don't 686 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,520 accidentally have any bumps or bruises from injecting. 687 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,600 And three, to just like lower inflammation and stress going 688 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:37,240 into the show. And you also over the course of 689 00:41:37,240 --> 00:41:41,240 peak week you drop things like clenbuterol which which helps 690 00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:45,400 you burn fat increases your metabolic rate again because it 691 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:50,320 can sometimes make you hold water or make you it can 692 00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:54,600 increase inflammation. And I also I use growth hormone 693 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,720 so I dropped that like 10 days out because growth hormone 694 00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:00,160 definitely makes you retain water. 695 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:05,880 And so then post show I I didn't add back in any of the 696 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,520 thermogenics. I didn't add back in trend I'm 697 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:12,560 I'm not using that anymore and really that's like reserved for 698 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,920 the last 6 to 8 weeks of the contest prep. 699 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:22,040 And yeah, so I went back to, I added back in testosterone as 700 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:27,320 well as the other anabolic I use is Primabolin and anabolic 701 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,800 steroids. Just so folks understand what 702 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:34,240 they are is they're medically and scientifically manufactured 703 00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:37,960 derivatives of testosterone that were made by pharmaceutical 704 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:43,480 companies in like the 70s and 80s to try to create a version 705 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:48,040 of testosterone for very sick people that had the least 706 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,720 androgenic side effects. So androgenic side effects are 707 00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:56,640 like things that make women into men when they take it, so 708 00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,800 deepening of voice, hair, acne, things like that. 709 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,400 So it's basically like trying to create a super testosterone is 710 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:09,240 what these other anabolics are and over time they got more and 711 00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:13,200 more refined as they as they manufactured these in the 712 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,280 chemical structure. So the most advanced of those 713 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:22,080 with the least side effects is premabolin and their studies on 714 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,600 women taking up to I think it's like a gram and a half of 715 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,840 premabolin a week for months on end with no negative side 716

00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:34,720 effects. So for a man who's bigger, you 717 00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:36,360 can definitely tolerate it very well. 718 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:41,560 So the base of my anabolic stack, if you will, is always 719 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,840 testosterone. But then because I don't want 720 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,640 some of those other effects, I fill in the rest of the 721 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,960 milligrams that I need to make progress with Prima Ball because 722 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:56,440 it's the safest, doesn't impact my blood work at all, and it's 723 00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:02,280 just like pure hypertrophy. So I went back to a lower dose 724 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:07,120 overall of milligrams than I was on during prep, probably half or 725 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,040 less. And it's just testosterone and 726 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,560 prima ballin after the show. And I'm going to ride that out 727 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,160 for the next 8 weeks because especially in enhanced 728 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:21,360 bodybuilding, you know, in in natural bodybuilding, post show 729 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,720 is all about recovery. It's about getting back to 730 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,120 healthy body fat and then making progress from there. 731 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,800 For enhanced bodybuilding, there's really this magical 732 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,440 rebound you can have post show where you're extremely insulin 733 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:39,080 sensitive, you're in the best possible place to grow, and a 734 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,760 lot of enhanced bodybuilders make as much progress in the 735 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:47,480 eight weeks after their show as they would in a normal, like 736 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:52,400 year long offseason. So if you do it correctly, you 737 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:57,880 don't eat like an asshole and you know you you use drugs 738 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,600 safely and you train hard, you can make tremendous progress in 739 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,120 those eight weeks. So that's what I'm doing right 740 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:07,880 now, and it's really fun. But yeah, so that's what I went 741 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,640 back to. I had the the, like, days 742 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,920 leading up to the show. I was eating so much food to try 743 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,480 to fill out that I wasn't really hungry post show, you know, I 744 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,160 had a couple bites of like a cookie and like half a cinnamon 745 00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,840 bun on show day. And then the next day, my wife 746 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:30,320 and I, we went to this fancy bakery we really like and we 747 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:34,480 split two sandwiches and then that was about it for me. 748 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,240 And you know, since then I've just been eating my normal diet, 749 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:45,160 a lot of meat and protein, and then white rice and food is very 750 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,040 high now. I'm already over 5000 calories 751 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,800 again every single day and training like an animal. 752 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,360 So that's that's my post show. Nice. 753 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:56,960 Nice. I'm about 5000 calories right 754 00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:58,920 now too. Man, it feels good to eat when 755 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,200 you have. Yeah, weeks and weeks and months 756 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:02,440 and months. Not eating as much as you'd 757 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:03,680 like. Yeah, absolutely. 758 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,400 And I'm still very hungry, which is the crazy part. 759 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,960 No for sure. Appetite is still good, still 760 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:14,280 plenty of runway to go in this offseason and body composition 761 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,880 is great. Still have lines in my glutes. 762 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:23,480 I'm about £10 above my show day weight, which was pretty 763 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,080 dehydrated to be fair. And like I said, I pulled out 764 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,680 growth hormone and things like that which lowers your weight as 765 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,000 well. So I'm in a very healthy spot 766 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,840 and yeah, just progressing gradually From here I'm going to 767 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:42,240 gain like two 2 lbs a week probably and monitor pictures, 768 00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:46,080 monitor body composition and try to try to move up. 769 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:51,880 I want to be like 10 to 15 lbs of true muscle heavier before I 770 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:56,080 compete again, and I think I'm set up well to do that. 771 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,600 I love it, man. So we totally lost over the 772 00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:00,360 actual show day itself, man. What were the results of the 773 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:01,640 show? What was that experience like? 774 00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,560 Yeah, the show is great. So in I don't know if it's the 775 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,520 same for naturals, but in enhanced bodybuilding at so this 776 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,040 is an amateur regional show so not a national show. 777 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,320 No. You know pro cards given. 778 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:22,200 But you can qualify for nationals and at the at the NPC 779 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,760 level they have in in every in every division. 780 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,320 So there's open bodybuilding. There's classic physique, which 781 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,000 is so open. Bodybuilding is like the freaks 782 00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:35,840 everyone anyone can compete. You can, They have different 783 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,480 weight classes, but you can be as big as you want to be. 784 00:47:40,200

--> 00:47:43,640 Classic physique is supposed to be more of like a streamlined 785 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,960 look, looking like the bodybuilders of like the 80s and 786 00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,720 90s, like Arnold and stuff like that. 787 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,480 The poses are slightly different, There's fewer poses 788 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,720 and there is a weight cap that's based on your height. 789 00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:02,160 So at 5/9 and 1/2, I think my weight cap is like 190. 790 00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,600 I think it's like 202 actually. And I weighed in on show day at 791 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,160 193, So I still have a good amount of room to go there. 792 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,520 And that's with like you said, not a ton of weight manipulation 793 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,600 and water cutting. So I can definitely stay in that 794 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,240 category if I choose to. So I did and and then there's 795 00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:24,280 Men's Physique, which is like the board shorts, only two 796 00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:25,920 poses. You're basically trying to look 797 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:27,760 like a beach model. I didn't compete in that. 798 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,520 So in class I competed in Classic and Open bodybuilding, 799 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:36,960 and in both of those they have Open, which is just anyone. 800 00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,280 They have Novice, which means you haven't placed in a show 801 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,200 before and they have True novice, which is you've never 802 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,360 competed before. True novice, a lot of people say 803 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,360 is like kind of just paying for a trophy. 804 00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:54,000 But you know, I had the COVID thing, I had the I I went 805 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:55,680 through a week in the hospital during prep. 806 00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:57,520 So I was like, I'm doing True novice and I'm getting my 807 00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,800 trophy. So I did true Novice and Open in 808 00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,240 both. Classic and Open bodybuilding. 809 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:10,680 So for four cat 4 categories I won True novice in open 810 00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:14,160 bodybuilding and then I went to the overall for True Novice open 811 00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,280 where I competed against the guys in the other weight 812 00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:17,640 classes. I won the overall. 813 00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:22,440 I won True novice and Classic Physique and the overall True 814 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:27,640 Novice and Classic Physique. I won my class in classic 815 00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,640 bodybuilding, which is there are three classes. 816 00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:31,920 They're based on different heights. 817 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,920 And then I went to the overall in classic bodybuilding and got 818 00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,880 second to this guy Anthony Mantello, who's like an 819 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:42,800 influencer big in the bodybuilding space, like trains 820 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,080 with Chris Bumstead and Nick Walker. 821 00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,000 And he has been competing for years. 822 00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,480 He missed his pro card by one spot at nationals two years ago. 823 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:55,440 He's a great kid, amazing physique, great genetics. 824 00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:59,040 He's been competing a lot longer than I have, so it was really 825 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,240 awesome to to battle it out with him. 826 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,760 But he beat me and so I got second there. 827 00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:08,240 And then in open bodybuilding in the light heavyweight category, 828 00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:12,120 which is up to 197 lbs, I got third. 829 00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:17,480 And so yeah, I won two of my classes or I won two of my 830 00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,680 categories. I won my class in another, got 831 00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:24,200 second in the overall, and then I got third in the third 832 00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:25,680 category. I computed him. 833 00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,640 I'd say it's a pretty, pretty freaking awesome first showing 834 00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:30,800 man like that that sounds like he walked there with lots of 835 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,280 hardware. Yeah, I was extremely happy with 836 00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,520 the results. better than I could have imagined. 837 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,000 And more importantly, I just felt so much love and support 838 00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,240 from friends and family. I had 12 people there on show 839 00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:45,040 day supporting me. They made signs for me. 840 00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,800 They were cheering me on. They were hanging out with me in 841 00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:51,000 the hotel room between prejudging and finals. 842 00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:55,400 And yeah, it was just such an amazing experience and I had so 843 00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,680 much fun being on stage and posing. 844 00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,320 It was really cool. The head judge of the show is 845 00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,120 this legend in bodybuilding named Steve Lineberger. 846 00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:10,200 He's been judging for 30 years. He he's the head judge at the 847 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:13,480 Mr. Olympia, at the Arnold Classic, at all these 848 00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:19,120 international pro shows and and domestic pro shows, and he was 849 00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,720 the head judge of the show. So it's really cool to be judged 850 00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:24,560 by him and I had a blast. That's awesome man. 851 00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,600 Did you go to the judges table and get any feedback from him 852 00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:28,960 afterwards? I did not get

feedback. 853 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,960 I I did go up and shapes shake Steve's hand. 854 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,320 But you know, I know what I need to improve on. 855 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,440 I I just I need more size everywhere. 856 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,720 And I need especially need more size on my quads and a little 857 00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:43,520 bit of hamstrings. Yeah, very cool, man. 858 00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,200 So you you've got the bug to do it again, huh? 859 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,080 Absolutely, absolutely. I still need to, you know, have 860 00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,920 the talk with the wife about competing again, and that'll 861 00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,600 come in a couple weeks. She wants me to, you know, take 862 00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,040 some time to reflect and talk about why it's important to me 863 00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:05,120 and you know what I'm doing. But my goal is to, like I said, 864 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:09,640 gain a good 10 to 15 lbs of stage weight and compete either 865 00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:15,480 in a later show next year and hopefully win at the regional 866 00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,160 level and then go to Nationals. I did qualify for Nationals this 867 00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,280 year, but I'm definitely not ready to be competitive at that 868 00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,360 level, so I'm not going to go to Nationals just to get my butt 869 00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:29,920 whooped. So yeah, I I want to win a local 870 00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:33,520 show next time I compete and go to Nationals and be competitive 871 00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,200 there. So I'll either compete in like 872 00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:42,320 the late spring, early summer next year or take another full 873 00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,480 year and compete in 2026. Awesome, man. 874 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:46,960 Speaking of your wife, what'd you think about the whole 875 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:48,800 ordeal? Was she totally on board with 876 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:49,920 it? Was there times where she was 877 00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,600 like, what are you doing to us? Yeah, there are definitely times 878 00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:56,440 where she like, you know, she was very unhappy about the night 879 00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:00,560 sweats piece. When I had the digestive issues, 880 00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,120 she was like freaking out, getting, trying to get me to go 881 00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,960 to the hospital. And she wasn't super happy 882 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,640 about, just like, you know, I could have done a better job 883 00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:14,400 communicating expectations at the outset of the prep, which I 884 00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:18,320 think a lot of bodybuilders do about, like how I would feel, 885 00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,360 how it would become, you know, a little more emotionally distant, 886 00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:25,800 lower energy. And I didn't do that super well. 887 00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:30,000 So some of those things she she wasn't necessarily expecting, so 888 00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:35,400 she wasn't super happy about, but she loved seeing me compete 889 00:53:35,720 --> 00:53:40,240 and she had such a blast on show day cheering for me. 890 00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:42,520 She was so happy for me. She was like crying. 891 00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,480 So overall, I think she was very happy that I did it and 892 00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,680 extremely proud of me. That's awesome, man. 893 00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,480 Yeah, that the, the spouses and significant others are 894 00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:53,040 competitors. I mean, they they deserve like 895 00:53:53,240 --> 00:53:56,480 their own, you know, moment of appreciation right there because 896 00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,920 like we couldn't do what we do if it weren't for having solid, 897 00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:03,160 you know, crew in our corner. And like, when I, when I think 898 00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:05,240 back on some of the things that I put Crystal through this last 899 00:54:05,240 --> 00:54:07,320 prep, it's like she's a freaking Angel, man. 900 00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,080 Like she's an Angel. Yeah, she is. 901 00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,000 Yeah. They they they definitely 902 00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:16,280 support us in so many different ways and deserve all the praise 903 00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,560 for that. 100%, man. Well, I'm stoked for you. 904 00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:20,480 I'm proud of you. I looked at the pictures. 905 00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:22,120 I mean, I saw the signs. I saw all the stuff. 906 00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:23,680 Look like you were having a blast. 907 00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,680 You look freaking incredible. I'm glad you're taking such a 908 00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:29,200 detailed approach to all of it because there's definitely guys 909 00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,680 out there that go the enhanced route that just like you know, 910 00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:33,600 they'll stick anything in them and they don't. 911 00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:35,840 They throw cost to the wind. And you've always been a very 912 00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,400 meticulous, data oriented person. 913 00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,200 I think that's the only way to be when you're going around. 914 00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,440 Yeah, that's the only way My wife trusts me too, you know. 915 00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:48,040 She knows how seriously I take the health side and how how 916 00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:52,160 meticulous I am with not just doing all the health stuff and 917 00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:57,600 having a good coach, you know, knowing it all myself and 918 00:54:57,600 --> 00:54:59,440 educating myself. You know, if I just told her, 919 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:01,920 oh, I'm doing what my coach said, she would not be happy 920

00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:02,800 about that. Yeah. 921 00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,840 So, you know, she knows I'm on top of it myself. 922 00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:10,680 I take personal responsibility. And yeah, I I think there's 923 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,200 definitely smarter and Dumber ways to do it. 924 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:15,600 And I tried to do it the smartest way possible. 925 00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:21,240 And yeah, my goals going into the show too, by the way, were 926 00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:25,160 one to come in peeled. I think I accomplished that. 927 00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:30,720 Two, to not embarrass myself with posing, cuz I did a lot of 928 00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:33,560 posing practice and got a lot of posing coaching along the way, 929 00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,000 which I needed, so I think I accomplished that. 930 00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:41,600 And three, to not drive my wife crazy, which she'll tell me how 931 00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:45,120 well I did at that one. And then four, to just enjoy it 932 00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,360 and make it a celebration. So I had no expectations or 933 00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:50,920 goals regarding placing or anything like that. 934 00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,080 It worked out very well. But that wasn't that wasn't the 935 00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:55,640 point. The point was to do my first 936 00:55:55,640 --> 00:56:00,120 show, to experience it. And yeah, I'm I'm very happy 937 00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,520 with how it all went. Well, The thing is about, I mean 938 00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,120 it's a subjective sport. So I mean you may look totally 939 00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:08,160 better than the next guy in your opinion, but the judges may not 940 00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:09,800 agree. So like if you go into it with 941 00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:13,680 that with that 4 criteria approach of like being as lean 942 00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,360 as you could possibly be, you know, not driving your wife 943 00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:21,000 crazy in the process, enjoying, enjoying the process and you 944 00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,480 know, doing it this healthy way you possibly can. 945 00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,960 I mean like that that's that's the best thing you can do. 946 00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:27,840 And then after that, I mean let the chips fall where they may 947 00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,920 and then be at peace with them. Yeah, absolutely. 948 00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,080 I think it's good to have internal, internal, focused 949 00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:38,680 goals rather than just external, especially in a subjective 950 00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,640 sport. 100% Well, what else is going to pop up for you, man? 951 00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:43,000 What? What else is exciting for you 952 00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,520 now that the show prep is done? Obviously you're going to be 953 00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:48,600 focused on putting on more size and you know, being competitive 954 00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:50,360 at the national level the next time you do compete. 955 00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,480 But outside of competitions, where? 956 00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:55,640 Where's that freed up bandwidth going to go now? 957 00:56:56,360 --> 00:57:00,400 Yeah, I mean a lot of it's going into my my family and my friends 958 00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,120 and you know seeing them and being more social with them than 959 00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:07,400 I could on prep, going on dates with my wife once a week. 960 00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,920 That's really important. Spending more time with family. 961 00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:15,280 You know my my folks came in from few states. 962 00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,200 They came in from Massachusetts to the show in New York. 963 00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:22,360 So that was really nice. And they're coming back for 964 00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,920 Mother's Day to stay with us for a few days. 965 00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:30,280 We have some trips planned over the summer with her family, and 966 00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:34,560 then we have a big once a year we like to go on a big trip with 967 00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:38,400 just the two of us. So last fall in October, we went 968 00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:42,640 to Utah and went to 3-4 different national parks for a 969 00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:43,960 week. And that was amazing. 970 00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:48,080 And this, this year, we're going to London and Paris together. 971 00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:50,400 So we're really looking forward to that. 972 00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:55,160 And then a lot of my time and focus is going back into work, 973 00:57:56,520 --> 00:58:00,200 you know, really excelling at my job and my career, which is very 974 00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,040 important to me. And then, you know, dedicating 975 00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:07,240 time to my dogs, my, my children, if you will. 976 00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,240 So yeah, that's that's where my focus is now. 977 00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:12,160 And you're still rocking the podcast too, right? 978 00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:18,480 Yep, still doing the podcast in episode a week at about 300 979 00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,400 episodes. Now that's been going for five 980 00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:23,440 years, so really enjoying that too. 981 00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:26,080 Did you change the name of the podcast recently? 982 00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:30,400 Yeah, I did. So about a year ago I changed 983 00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:34,800 from Carnivore Cast to the Scott Mize show and experienced a 984 00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:39,480 pretty significant drop in downloads and and followers from 985 00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:42,840 doing that. But I still have, you know, 986 00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:47,400 Carnivore related guests. Every other week I've had Sally 987 00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:52,320 Norton on. Recently I had George

Eade back 988 00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:57,080 again. I've had Suzanne Alexander who's 989 00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:01,840 been doing these awesome trips to visit native peoples in 990 00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:06,360 Southeast Asia and most recently Africa. 991 00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:10,360 You know she stayed with the Maasai and and other tribes, so 992 00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,360 I've had her on SO trying to maintain the carnivore aspect, 993 00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:16,800 but I wanted to be able to branch out to more bodybuilding 994 00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:22,040 and bodybuilding related topics. So right now I'm doing a 995 00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:25,720 Carnivore episode every other week, and a more Bodybuilding 996 00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:26,880 episode every other. Week. 997 00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:27,960 Nice. Nice. 998 00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:29,400 Yeah. I don't even pretend to 999 00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:33,320 understand the the podcasting algorithm, but I feel as long as 1000 00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:36,360 you're recording the kind of content that you want to record, 1001 00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:39,200 I mean, you can call it whatever you will. 1002 00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:41,640 You can appeal to whatever demographic you want, but as 1003 00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,160 long as you're recording content with guests that you want to 1004 00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,320 interview and it's interesting to you, that's going to be like 1005 00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:48,360 the the make and break factor. That's going to be what allows 1006 00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:51,040 you to sustain a long term. Exactly, Exactly. 1007 00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:54,520 It's just about enjoying, like doing it this long. 1008 00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:57,920 You couldn't do it if you you weren't having conversations you 1009 00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:01,600 found interesting and enjoyed. And so that's been really key 1010 01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:02,800 for me. And you know, I've of course 1011 01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,760 gone through times where I didn't want to do it as much and 1012 01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,280 I was kind of dreading it. But you know, I stuck to it. 1013 01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:09,880 I stuck to my one episode a week. 1014 01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:14,200 And yeah, I I mean, I get to have all kinds of guests on. 1015 01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:17,960 I had this past week, I had a psychedelics expert on, which 1016 01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,920 was really interesting diving into that. 1017 01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:23,240 So yeah, it's it's been really fun. 1018 01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:24,800 I love it, man. I love it. 1019 01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:26,600 Well, Scott, what am I going to see you next, man? 1020 01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:28,120 Are you going to be going to these conferences this? 1021 01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:30,440 Year. I'm not going. 1022 01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:33,640 Don't have plans to go into any of the Keto or Carnivore 1023 01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,760 conferences this year, but maybe I will. 1024 01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:38,920 I'd love to make it back to Austin. 1025 01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,320 I know there's a lot of great conferences there and amazing 1026 01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:44,160 BBQ so. There is amazingly down for. 1027 01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:46,800 Trip to Austin. You and I are both putting down 1028 01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,720 about 5000 calories a day right now, so I think if we went and 1029 01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:53,760 got like, you know, 3 beef ribs ought to do it for. 1030 01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:55,560 Us. Yeah, we'd have to do like, an 1031 01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:57,000 eating challenge. That'd be fun. 1032 01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:59,720 Yeah, I'd be all about it, man. We got to get a lift in sometime 1033 01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:01,480 too. Yeah, that'd be great. 1034 01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:03,920 I'd love that. Well, Scott, always a pleasure 1035 01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:05,640 brother and thoroughly enjoyed talking with you. 1036 01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:07,720 Thoroughly enjoyed seeing you go to the prep. 1037 01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:10,160 I'm excited for you on all fronts, man. 1038 01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:11,520 Where do people go to find out more about? 1039 01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:12,600 You. Yeah. 1040 01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:16,600 Just look for Scott my show Scott dot Mize dot show on 1041 01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:21,640 Instagram or search Scott my show on wherever you listen to 1042 01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:24,160 podcasts or YouTube and you can find me there. 1043 01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:25,840 Awesome, man. Well, I'll link out and make it 1044 01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:27,800 easy for people to find you. And Scott, if there's anything I 1045 01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:29,120 can do for you, brother, you just let me know. 1046 01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:33,120 Thank you so much Robert. I love all your content, your 1047 01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,200 podcast. I think you're an amazing 1048 01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:39,040 person, you're one of the best people in the industry and I've 1049 01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:41,440 always looked up to you and and really, really appreciate you 1050 01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:43,760 having me on. Hey man, that means the world to 1051 01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:44,880 me. I really appreciate that. 1052 01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:46,640 I just kind of we were talking about earlier. 1053 01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:51,360 I just do what I love doing and that's granted me the 1054 01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:53,920 opportunity to interact with people that I love learning 1055 01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:56,520 from. So thanks is all you, man. 1056 01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:58,160 I appreciate this conversation more than you know. 1057 01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:00,080 Awesome. Thank you. 1058 01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:02,080 Take care, bud. You too.