Part two of our mini-series on Jobs To Be Done today. We welcome back Bob Moesta who spent hours with us recording real interviews with Industry attendees and unpacking the conversations to answer the question - what Job does Industry serve for it’s attendees.

Today, we get to hear one of those interviews as Bob shows us some of the essential techniques of Jobs To Be Done interviews. 

Adding Jobs to be Done to your bag of tricks gives you a leg up in the product world. We breakdown Bob Moesta’s exclusive interviews with actual customers of Industry conference. The best way to learn is by unpacking real decisions that consumers have actually made and this is a rare opportunity to learn from the master himself.

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00:00:00this podcast is brought to you today by bishnu Economist new economy is a new show by rocket ship FM where we get to explore topics that you care about like basic income and diversity in and what really happens behind a TechCrunch exit this new economy is our chance to explore Humanity through economics so go check out season 1 search this new economy an iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts
00:00:31so Mike we're back with part 2 of our jobs to be done episode featuring Bob messed up yes I am super excited for this of course if you haven't listened to the last episode we did you generally want to go back and check that out there was a lot of setup that's going to lead right into this episode but this is the episode where we really dig in with one of the attendees for my conference industry and mess up basically becomes my jobs to be done coach basically your Sensei and what a better what a better Sensei I can't think of anybody else that I would rather have as my job to be done Sensei then Bob messed up I am extremely jealous I will say that before we get into this but I'm excited to learn who your guest was oh yes and we will get into that in just a moment
00:01:22welcome to rocket ship. FM
00:01:26is season 4 of rocket ship we are diving into everything product and gross Rocketship FM is produced in partnership with product like that where your host Michael Sokka and like Elsa. And so would you find well you are about to find out Keepers Bob and me before our special guest join the call this call is being recorded
00:01:50morning hey good morning it's Mike Delfino here how are you in that he was a first-time it send you this past year so yes specifically Matt Ragland onboarding lead at convertkit you know I actually sat next to Matt at industry for most of the conference in the past was really excited that would that is really well yes and now we're going to get to hear from Matt on the show in fact here's part of the interview or Bob pretty much takes over the whole interview and I put myself on mute I opened up my Moleskine and pretty much just start filling up with pages and pages of notes and so here's Bob kicking things off with Matt and this goes on for like 3 minutes or so but I want to play it through just to show off how Bob starts off jobs be done interviews
00:02:50thank you for taking the time we're doing what I would I would Caesar Lee research to get the language my people attend industry later I want or less figure out the job you hired this conference for it's going to be at the setup is pretty much the same as like we're looking for language were trying to basically make sure we understand what you mean in the best way to think about it and I almost want to shoot the documentary about kind of how how you found industry how you decided that was the conference and then how well did it can I meet those expectations and then if we have some extra time might talk about some other conferences you've been to give me a little bit of your background where you work what you do and then we'll just cuddle up the conversation flow from that great so I work at an email marketing platform for
00:03:50Gators and Florida mail Jam a Weber Infusionsoft and so what does the role that I've had here is on the customer success team and ab in Wickenburg kit for over 2 years now and I've been doing more and more on the customer research side and I wanted to continue to develop my skills and also connection and I resources around product management design so that I would have a better skill set to be able to take customer interactions and research and and take the next step and be able to have a bigger role in implementing them into the products that was as a lot of my 11 ishal thinking around looking for the conference
00:04:50how long you been with convertkit
00:04:53little over 2 years so I started
00:04:59gotcha I was doing I was doing some contract work with a couple other startup 3-4 months at a time and really before even before even convert cat I had been applying for tech jobs for a little over a year and had been I said supporting myself with contract work so that was what I was what I was doing before and that most of the contract work was around like copywriting customer education like throwing out the knowledge Pacers doing onboarding and education videos think like that and now where are you in the world
00:05:44Nashville Tennessee Nashville
00:05:49no I don't we move to Nashville in 2013
00:05:55Wiz you and your wife
00:06:04we have a two year old boy lets his life is busy know that I for sure though I'm the youngest of 4 so I'll say about to be the youngest and the oldest son everything youngest gets away with murder so when did you when did you first hear about industry do you remember
00:06:33yes I did it was on a podcast Mike was a guest on a podcast
00:06:44on a podcast I take it he's referring to I believe it was this is product management not what I was expecting of course I'll let this play out for another good few minutes regularly intermittently so I haven't listened to it in a little while but at the time I was as a relates trying to get as much information as I can about
00:07:21about the job about the role right you remember when when that was about
00:07:29was that in the summer was over the rainbow IZ over the summer and in late spring or early summer May May or June and where were you in the car were you working out or were you at your desk I was I was most likely in the car at that time I was hustling my son back and forth to daycare my wife my wife's the nurse and so on the days that she did work I would take him there and back and though the daycare was about 20 minutes away so I can get a pretty good pretty good podcast then those things where you heard it and if I go I got to write that down right. Remember that it was okay that would be a good idea to me about it
00:08:30yeah I was I was in the car like I said most likely I could have also been on a walk but probably not at I try and key probably not at my desk and probably not working out but yeah I was I was in the car and just I needed a conference to attend every year. It's one of the one of the continuing education things we have if I wanted my conference is already in the mindset of like I wanted my
00:09:13my conference to be one that would help me and I level up my skills and knowledge and in the tech in the tech industry the year before and it's gone to like Austin conference and I can talk more about that later but I wanted I said this when I said when I heard a product and I saw the Jason free it was going to be so let me rewind note of it and then when I was back in my computer or done driving as what the websites on speaker phone the speaker profiles and saw the Jason free with speaking and that you also we're speaking and leading a workshop actually I've been studying to be done and so when I saw both of those
00:10:07I heard about it and I saw you and Jason were speaking I began the process of signing up I still needed to talk about it but that was the first step for me but you wanted you had a slot that you had to fill you had a conference you could go talk to in 2017 where did you go last year the 2016
00:10:33I went to one in Portland called the world domination Summit and it is it was more the page a little bit more of a picture there where remote company and at that point at that point when I signed up for the DDS I knew a lot of our customers are going to be there and also a lot of our employees that I ate at that point I've been with the company 6-7 months and had not met really in a bit what's your take this far what's going through your mind as Bob is digging in with Matt that's just it like he's really digging in deep and that's pretty much my biggest observation about all of us like he's going so deep Robert probably like way deeper than what I'm used to there are times where Bob just keeps asking Matt to clarify he even interrupt him but for the sake of getting Clarity on what exactly that means when he says something honestly
00:11:33I'm not used to doing it that way I'm just not used to being that bold and really digging in like that this is definitely something that could take some getting used to but I can see how being so diligent on continuing that dig in and can allow you to uncover things that you're not going to if you just stay on the surface right if you just accepted the basic answer at face value so true so okay I'm going to play a little bit more here and I'll start it at this portion of the conversation with Matt where he starts to talk about some of the reasons why a conference like industry stood out to him okay back to to me in one of the things that I have in a garden consistent feedback about from
00:12:15camber kit and then and some other roles but especially convertkit is like my first extended full time job in tact is that magma great with relationships your great working with the customers directly we'd like to see you have more have more skills around the technical aspect of your job managing managing projects taking the lead and ownership on a different types of experiments that you want to run being able to communicate with the engineers better and understanding the data behind the data behind what's important to your role and so I started looking for me when I heard that after asking some questions by direct as well to me it sounded a lot like what a product project manager does throw it throw it back
00:13:15he then a couple years before that I actually interviewed for a project product manager role at a company called backcountry.com in Salt Lake City in 2012 and I didn't I did not get that job but that's what really has sparked my interest in in the role and I've been on and off again sorry I'm getting a rough just today but I don't want you too far ahead without me kind of make sure and pack right is that is that really kind of where you were headed in knowing that I get in here I can let maybe get over to
00:13:56and get over to the product management project management sides but is that what you wanted to be or did you really like customer service and spending customer service
00:14:09and tell me yes I've I've been I've been bearing towards product in project management since that happened to me I will be right back after a quick worker charged me help simplify subscription management invoicing and payment they automated key pieces of subscription management and billing so you don't have to write custom code on top of your payment Gateway for requirement and yusuke's for the offer customers the ability to pay with multiple gateways like stripe PayPal multiple currency pricing at cetera charge reconnect with essential business tools like your help desk CRM accounting system and and so much more so teams you can have an easy role-based access to essential customer subscription data across all of your apps yeah I knew you would charge me you don't have to be building a Billing System yourself and that allow product him actually focus on building the product
00:15:09supposed to building Billing System exclusively for rocket ship listeners if you go to rocket ship. Charge me.com now you will get 30% off thats rocket ship. Charge b.com to get 30% off today from our sponsors now back to the show me five minutes more and obviously we can't play everything in this episode but I don't know I actually think it would be super useful free debts oh my God I don't know I'd be down for playing the entire interview and its entirety for the rocket ship listeners at some point yeah I definitely think we should but for now what happened after that time with Matt well that's when I spent about another hour with Bob debriefing and that was so helpful because it allowed me to see not just again what an interview actually looks like but how Bob actually synthesizes all of that information
00:16:09just a little bit of the post-interview debrief that I had with Bob messed up
00:16:19sounds great so so let's just talk about the the
00:16:25sideline tell me the timeline you got and then I'll tell you the time when I got to go kind of go through it together but what what what was the sequence of things that happened
00:16:37doesn't matter more the sequence like what happens first half and second what happened shirt
00:16:44stuffed yeah the first thing that I thought he mentioned was that he heard me on the podcast this is your product management and I know that that hit that aired in February so him saying that Springtime you don't make sense I have almost back yet was it back country was like sucking customer service but I'm hearing this and thank you pretty close to the bag project is a perfect example of passive looking right he's not right brain he hears you in the podcast to hear Jason he hears about job he might be something worthwhile and then he gets the review right yep
00:17:42in the review is really that thing that causes him to try to go and actively look
00:17:49yeah so the review is what I call event one where it's like you know what and it wasn't like most people word would be devastated by some of that news but he knew it and he's like okay this gives me the opportunity to remember that
00:18:13so you can see even though I had pages of notes in front of me when Bob ask me about the time line it was easy for me to know Kim hearing the podcast I was on at the beginning of the timeline really it was when Matt was working at Bat Country 5 or 6 years ago were for him as product or any started which is what ultimately led him to Industry and that's where the timeline really sorry yes exactly that's pretty fascinating stuff to get to listen to in like you said this is only really scratching the surface maybe in the future we can release all of this hearing the actual jobs-to-be-done interview in its entirety with the coaching from a messed up I think that would really been a party but I really think it could end for now I'll take as much coaching from Bob maestas I can get
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