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ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Don't be shocked or surprised, Roam Schoolers.


The email came in yesterday: "On Friday evening, administrators were informed of threats made against the school on social media by a high school student. Police were immediately notified, and the student was questioned by police. 

Due to privacy laws and the fact that this is now a police matter, we cannot provide more specifics on this case. We can assure you that this incident is a clear violation of the district’s safety policies and the student will not be on campus pending the outcome of the investigation."


We respectfully re-offer episode12 from one year ago today. In search of some small steps, some common ground in the insanity.

English
United States
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TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00Tyrone school. This is Jim if you've been following Rome school for the last couple weeks you know that we've been working on an episode about the wild mustangs of the American West it's this really complicated and fascinating topic and we can't wait to share with you all the stuff we've been learning but in the meantime even this issue challenging to our brains in our hearts seems like it can wait a couple weeks yesterday morning I got an email from the school district. Vernon Dana attend when they're in regular school which is most of the time there was an incident at the high school where they sent a kid home because he made threats on social media to the school
00:00:42and even though the girls are only in 3rd grade it all seem suddenly close to home as I'm sure it does from any of you we did our best in episode 12 a year ago to take on the Second Amendment and really pick it apart so the people like you and me who wonder how we got from the Constitution to where we are today could have a little more information and some interesting stories some of our listeners Express disbelief over the past few weeks since the Florida shooting that the president would suggest the guns be brought into schools but in fact as you appear in some of the opening Montage that's always been the plan nobody should be surprised laughing this off as something that could never happen
00:01:27even if that's what feels best to do
00:01:30all that said I hope you enjoy this episode
00:01:33check one two
00:01:38and the Second Amendment Second Amendment is both why doesn't anyone go at the pool
00:01:45the Second Amendment is the most vital Amendment because without it there is no First Amendment gun violence violence assortment of tools
00:01:59the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun
00:02:14why do we do a show about guns in the Second Amendment what a brother I will get rid of gun-free zones on schools at you have to my first day it gets signed okay my first day but you never what your original question was
00:02:42the Second Amendment we decided to do a show about guns
00:02:48I know you're watching debates
00:02:51so what exactly what what's the Second Amendment year I have a copy of it with what is a regulated militia
00:03:01security
00:03:04the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed yeah well a lot of us don't matter fact almost every one of these words is Up For Debate you could discuss it for hours and hours years have gone by with people debating over the word regulated or debating with the word militia or necessary or security so it gets complicated basically though it says that since it's important to have a well regulated militia whatever that is I think it means a group of people defending themselves with guns but their regulated or and someone have an agreed-upon set of rules that govern them so why is it important it's important to the security of a free state United States the right of the people to keep and bear arms
00:04:04shall not be infringed
00:04:11so that's what if wears you out to think about it doesn't it so that's why we have this entire episode and the next one devoted to the topic guns gun laws and the Second Amendment
00:04:29or idea as always a drum school days to look at the whole thing with fresh eyes and in doing so I hopefully turn it completely on its head for you our aim is not to give any aspect of this any sort of spin but rather for us to roam around the whole topic and threw it by living in it and talking to people
00:04:50so I realize that guns are a huge part of American culture and if we're going to do an episode about him I should definitely get to know what it is about them it's so important to the red white and blue so where do we start well we decided to start at a gun shop that was known for being conversant that are willing to talk to people and they have new points but it wasn't really sure what we were in for some place called The Gun Room
00:05:31attack parrot I think that's for real
00:05:35you really have an attack parrot trying to just learn by looking but it wasn't long before Rome School type interactions started I told him about the show we're done you guys were strangely quiet remember how you were feeling
00:06:02I was kind of scared and I wasn't paying attention that much cuz I was focused on the parrot parrot
00:06:14scared by attack. I just did not like I just don't like talking about violence or guns
00:06:23is this doesn't make you think of horrible things that could happen or
00:06:27yeah kind of dying and I don't like talking but guy
00:06:33the parrot was are in and pretty soon we were deep in conversation with the owner
00:06:45that's a real big issue every place else in the world where there's lots of gun-control there's lots of violence in this country feels very little violence he does all kinds of violence statistics Sweden everybody knows so you know and they're all kids
00:07:08should I tell this guy with someone who be wanting to talk to us but a lot of what he said to us was as you can imagine a little bit one-sided and we're looking for the Common Ground here so the next voice you hear is that a penny okamoto she's the executive director of C Spire Oregon ceasefire is known as a moderate group that bushes for safe gun ownership laws and discussion Chili's constructed conversation you're about to hear has some elements of the classic gun debate but it also is meant to try to find some common ground in a new way
00:07:48do we really have the lowest rate of gun violence all the name calling people can be civil when they're trying very hard for when I have a chance to edit their conversations a little bit afterwards okay we really do have one of the highest rate of gun violence these countries are countries that are part of something called Bowie CD does the organization of Economic and cultural development countries okay so those are going to be other countries like that still going to be in Japan Germany Western developed countries in the United States to look at this Japan Germany France always CD countries so here's United States so we're higher
00:08:45it's actually a lot higher 10 times higher than most so here's a way of thinking of the figures that were looking at and he's grass imagine that you live in a midsize town in America a hundred thousand people in the town that size roughly the size of San Mateo California or Davenport Iowa Hillsboro Oregon South Bend Indiana Green Bay Wisconsin there's probably three or four high school's fu movie theaters maybe a bowling alley or three you probably know quite a few of the people and you run into them you say hi when you go shopping sometimes you may be honk at an intersection here's what the number say not just the ones that panties showing us but we did our own research as well each year in this u.s. town of a hundred thousand people 10 of them will be shot to death
00:09:38is there any news other countries that were looking at Germany Spain finland's hungry let's take Ireland and Italy for example gifts guess how many people in a town of 100000 would be shot each year in those countries out of a hundred thousand and we're at 10 but who has the lowest gun violence in the world
00:10:07how many a 1/5 of a person every 5 years
00:10:16okay and in Sweden
00:10:19trick question one just like the rest of the countries I just brought up Sweden because we're kind of tired of always being compared to Sweden
00:10:28but the land of liberty the u.s. how many is it again for traditionally have guns for going out hunting to catch things to eat to live off to protect themselves against people traditionally as a country do not as a weapon of defense against other human beings the Genie's out of the bottle and they're this cycle that will never go back we're trying to find some common ground not to take away all the guns but to help with the conversation in which gun violence is reduced so we have learned a lot from talking to people who are gun enthusiasts
00:11:28gun friends who have good enthusiasm friends who I love when I find out find out that they have brought a gun to protect themselves against at next door neighbor when the shit goes down I find it terrifying why would you want a goon to that wouldn't you want to help heal neighbor wouldn't you want to pull together when the government what is often cited is your government
00:11:58that could still happen
00:12:00check with the genie back in the bottle at this point it's not going to go back we talk and say no guns I don't even know if there's a way that a Mexican tree. This can all get on the same page and decided there is a new way forward with guns it's like a big Haystak and in the haystack is needles that we can use to sew tapestry of togetherness a patchwork there's there's some common ground they were fine and we went to a gun shop we listen to Counting the Ted Nugent interviews there is Common Ground maybe we can't look to the English 4 answers about gun control because I don't hear later they were perceived as our oppressors
00:13:00when the 2nd Amendment was drafted and put into the Constitution but how about somebody even friendlier say the Canadians they're nice and they have guns I don't think they'll ever invade our country at least not in the foreseeable future and their gun deaths are about 1/10 of what hours are in the United States last time we were in Canada we asked a man from Alberta which is known as the Texas of Canada just a few basic questions about getting jobs they're just going to buy a couple guns well you can't actually buy a couple of guns that instantaneously really easy the fac Firearms acquisition certificate actually need a permit to own a gun in Canada back
00:13:49so in order to get a weapon you have to get a car but they want anybody can I buy one for them if I go through the proper procedure
00:14:15but wait just a second there's a whole another way to look at these numbers so I promise I'm coming ground here's another way of looking at those numbers you know whose death rate is higher in population of 100000 they have 10.5 gun deaths so it's only a little tiny bit higher than ours has 60 Jamaica has 31 Honduras has 67 Brazil has 21 this is the number of people in Honduras has a lot of gun violence so what I'm pointing out here with all these numbers as you can see how it would be possible to make a graph that puts the u.s. number right about in right there with the Philippines Montenegro Uruguay and Argentina they have about the same gun death rate as the United States
00:15:11Japan yokomoto as soon as a lot of grass they don't in fact show the United States is having the lowest Violence by any stretch in fact they show the opposite of civilized countries we have roughly 10 times as many gun deaths as the average of the other countries
00:15:35the mean number 1C 50,000 heroin deaths last year I think there was maybe in Chicago and everything else at least smallest 1.3% of all violent deaths are firearms. To begin with they actually drowned two and a half times as many people as Firearms medical malpractice was 250,000 people that was the number one on the on the tops of Total Firearms fatality is were something like 12 or $13,000 which is nothing compared to the population okay I don't want to bore you with Statistics but we got to check some of these facts because he just laid a lot of moss so did exhaustive research and I'm going to have you guess which facts are true and which is the number one East if they were 50,000 heroin deaths heroin overdose as well
00:16:28I don't think that's true I don't believe that in fact there were 50 thousand Total Drug overdoses last year and heroin is included in that total and yes that total number is larger than the number of people who lost their lives at the wrong end of a gun and he also voted the number of firearm fatalities sort of correctly at 13000 but that's only if you don't count 21000 gun suicides every year that means that most of the deaths by firearms in the United States every year are from people shooting themselves this brings up mental health issues which are at the core of the debate about guns behind all of the talk about regulating the size of guns and the number of guns it's who can access them and whether they're of sound mind another statistic that he threw out was the total firearm fatalities only accounted for 1.3% of all violent deaths this one
00:17:25I think it's BS dad you are correct the FBI and the CDC both agree that they were 22,000 violent or intentional that's last year and half of them 11,000 of them were from Firearms if you really doing the math and getting hung up on the numbers here 11,000 or murders 2004 accidental deaths 21001 suicides
00:17:5033000 people practice kills 250,000 people mistakes mistakes made in the hospital or mistakes made by doctors that's a quarter of a million people in that seems like quite a stretch right according to the Journal of the American Medical Association that's the number accidental deaths due to medical malpractice killed a quarter of a million people
00:18:19he's getting depressing but nothing's ever going to happen to you you're probably actually never going to die then neither am I
00:18:29okay so the last of cystic in the show probably is when he said what he said about drowning and I saw you raise your eyebrows what did he say
00:18:39drowned
00:18:42the axis of the more people are drowned violently than are killed by guns
00:18:50is it true that more people and they get shot and Americans every single year are shot to death about an additional $20,000 cans every year shoot themselves to death and they're $75,000 more who are shot and injured but do not die and I I do know for a fact that we do not have that kind of problem with your 8 to 10 people are murdered every year by Drowning not eight to ten thousand but just eight to ten but you know what I've taken is completely into the weeds and we have to stop talking about statistics let's look at the bigger picture let's say that just will just suppose that someone's right that 50,000 people a year drown let's say that's correct it is not but let's say it is okay does that mean we shouldn't do anything about gun violence just because so many people are drowning of course not it doesn't have to be the most pervasive problem the most common problem
00:19:50to want to do something about it we are actually losing a great number of people to gunshot death and injury every year you can go to the Center for Disease Control studies you can go to the government any agency that takes in information about how people. I believe me there a lot of agencies where do that and you will find these huge numbers of people who are shot and injured or shot and killed so bottom line is it's a ancient old fashion argument where people have the right of self-defense the reason why it off Hitler decided not to invade the United States reason why I told you decided not to invade the reason why everybody decided not to invade the United States because the Second Amendment and the civilian population armed to the teeth so the first method of maintaining a democracy is the number one first amendment is Free Speech I think Obama's to wear son of a bitch
00:20:50okay yeah and I can back it up to the second thing is what guarantees that right is the Second Amendment which means everybody has the right to bear arms to defend them to the reason the Second Amendment so important as what you saying is that the first amendment is so important protect the people from the government
00:21:14that's that's a pretty awful thing to say that because you're saying if you don't like what I say I can shoot you
00:21:19that's not American you hear that all the time in America don't you hear about how the Second Amendment is there to protect our other rights and the 1st Amendment in particular
00:21:29nope weather your weather talking about the you know what you want to say who you want to worship know you don't have the right to go shoot somebody just because they disagree with you
00:21:39the Second Amendment is the most vital Amendment because without it there is no First Amendment it's what separates Americans and America from the rest of the world music and duration courtesy of the NRA what do you think of this idea in which the second amendment that is your ability to carry a gun protects the First Amendment or somebody's ability to say whatever they want
00:22:03I don't think that's true it have a gun so you're trying to speak your mind and if somebody tries to attack you I don't think your gun will help you get them back but people would still go after you it's not like guns are the only way to protect yourself keep you from having freedom of speech their ability to impede your freedom of speech isn't necessarily affected with a gun they could do it with
00:22:32fire or rocks or swords
00:22:36voting
00:22:43that was would you protect yourself. Your body is saying that the first amendment is protected by the Second Amendment but she's saying that that's for the suggestion that anybody who speaks their mind might be shot so it's almost like a threat
00:23:02if somebody is really extreme about the Second Amendment it can come off as being a very threatening proposition having that type of a context to frame your freedom of speech doesn't really give you freedom of speech
00:23:15yeah it's hard to argue with either of these you point so we just have to keep looking for some common ground can we
00:23:25but you heard of you ever heard of a logical fallacy I think that there might be one in our thinking about the Constitution that you are chipping away at Muslim people look at a logical problem or philosophical dilemma with a certain set of constructs that prevent that problem from being solved that can cause an impossible cycle it then that's why the genie is out of the bottle as they say all these guns are out there and the people who have them and want to keep them are not going to let him go because they fear that their freedoms will be taken away in the but the people who want to live a life without guns feel that same sense of fear about the loss of their freedoms it's a cycle
00:24:11Hermann Goering said be breaking it sent you know he bit the cyanide pill and I didn't get a chance to hang out just before he said can't believe how easy was to take control of the population and make them do what you want
00:24:25the right to bear arms is a political right designed to safeguard Freedom so that no government can take away from you the rights with God has given you and it was written by people who have spent their lifetime fighting the greatest Empire in the world and they knew that if they had not had the right to bear arms they would have been enslaved and that is why they guaranteed us the right to protect ourselves it is a political right of the deepest importance to the survival of freedom in America
00:24:59can we just get the first of all how ridiculous it is for people to think that the 2nd amendment protects them from tyranny Waco saw that Waco they had like 1.9 million rounds of ammunition they had 50 caliber machine guns and grenades what are the government had everything else the winner and still Champion the United States government thinking the Second Amendment can protect you from Jeremy that piss like thinking that the first amendment protects you from Thor
00:25:30it's ridiculous it's nonsense is about our freedom the ability to protect ourselves our families in our property
00:25:40and if we don't have an adherence to the 2nd Amendment then we lose the capacity for the first one the second amendment is valid it's not going anywhere you can have your opinions about it but it's kind of silly to fight it so even though guns haven't been a part of my household at least not yet I have to respect how much the Second Amendment means to people who own guns and some who don't sometimes I think of it is if it applied to my guitars as a lifelong musician I've always Used Guitars to express myself make my living and feel safe I pretty much need to have one in the house at all times at least I used to let someone try to take my guitars or my ability to express myself I start talking crazy just like then aficionados have extreme rhetoric when they feel that someone's going to take away their guns guns are here to stay right along with the 2nd Amendment the next step is finding this Common Ground about how to make them safer and one way to do that is the law regulations
00:26:40American money is Ted Nugent Cesar all legal guns and I'm going to see that they remain single because they're
00:26:57what rods do you think there should be about guns that there isn't that's a great question we have a lot of laws regarding guns but the truth is matter is that they're not really keeping so $1 I think is most important is called a background check in Oregon is required for all gun sales except for a very few like family members so family members can sell guns are give gone to things like that exchange guns without having sex or having to do a background check on way back in 1993 the Brady Bill required background checks in anyone was buying a gun from a federally licensed Firearms dealer I like background check I wrote Wango Tango and I carry a gun
00:27:42but a lot of people actually didn't undergo a background check 22% of people who buy guns do it without a background check He has blocked funding for studies the Brady Bill there's a couple of things you might not know about James Brady he was Reagan's press secretary he was shot along with Reagan in an assassination attempt in 1981 what does assassination public figure or a a person who is well known to many is killed
00:28:18so that was a 1981 and James Brady was paralyzed by the bullet so people in Congress got together they decide how well something needs to happen because the person who shot them was an insane person and I said people with mental health issues shouldn't be allowed to purchase guns so we're going to have something called a background check in this was the main component of the Brady Bill but it didn't become law until 12 years later which was during that is a long time that was during Clinton's presidency on a bill introduced by a guy who is still a senator in New York Charles Schumer
00:28:51originally there was a background check and a waiting. So they make you wait for a couple of days or a couple of weeks depending on the gun and depending on the state but the NRA lobbied to have this waiting. Go away and to make the background checks be performed instantly it's less than the time that it takes for the transaction to go through on your credit card still here is where we find some common ground even staunch gun supporters like Ted Nugent you guys know who Ted Nugent is a rock-and-roller from the 1970s is a big fan of the Second Amendment and he's very outspoken he is pretty well known for a while on the 72 years was music sounds like
00:29:41what do you think
00:29:46yeah what you think
00:29:49I don't like it at all scary
00:29:58who won Ultimate off the thing is even though he has radically different views than I do and pretty different aesthetic than you guys do obviously musically one little sliver of common ground is that in a lot of people might not know this Ted Nugent supports background checks as does the NRA as it turns out but there is a catch and we'll get to this
00:30:23this is Dana and you're listening Trump's gold this is the first of two episodes about guns and the Second Amendment
00:30:50can I come in with my family and get a gun 1776 and what what type of documentation if you're having kind of a emotional problem a criminal problem or anything that you're either arrested or approved in about 15 minutes for trying to buy a gun today if you use drugs if you use marijuana for an example you can't legally be in possession of a firearm a big part of this whole thing is it really is a lifestyle goal fashion lifestyle is healthy versus a new lifestyle that's unhealthy so that's why the Duck Dynasty guys for an example you're not special kids can watch healthiest thing as fishing honey so healthiest thing there is healthy activities going fishing hunting with Grandpa and Dad and everything else creates a very strong
00:31:49that's a wall at the other end of the counter she's just interrupted just because they're looking at pictures of animals
00:31:56I'm going to ask questions about that you can
00:31:59next to people who don't kill those animals specifically wolves
00:32:04that's my granddaughter she just shot that dear
00:32:12this is a bird dog
00:32:30when they're in my house I don't know anything about guns so far I've turned over and we're going through all kinds of paperwork and everything else to make sure the people are doing things right the bad guys could care less they're doing things wrong all the time but for now we're really trying to embrace this culture that so valued and Jermaine to the gun rights conversation it's what he's talking about this lifestyle clean outdoor living and hunting etcetera will the girls aren't buying it yet and although this gets brought up a lot when talking about gun laws I want to make it clear this lifestyle if it's just quite a separate conversation from the 2nd Amendment gun Advocates maintain a picture of the family in that bucolic Adventure moment somewhere but again that's porting pass time is not at the heart of the Second Amendment conversation but that picture of a family who does their own hunting and Gathering and is self-sufficient is really alluring it can be confusing
00:33:29I never thought I'd look to these guys for clarification but take it from Newt Gingrich and Mike Huckabee
00:33:35I just want to say and I don't want to offend anybody here who's a hundred the right to bear arms is not about hunting it's not about target practice
00:33:46if somebody asked me about the second amendment I don't go off and start talking about that I love to go hunting and been a lifelong Hunter when it comes to hunting if we do not at all oppose responsible gun ownership and this is one of the fallacies actually that the gun lobby has promulgated that this is all about a beautiful old rifle Wood stock and maybe use for hunting passed down from generation to generation and that is not at all what's being preserved talk about this one reason 1 Word money money money sell guns away guns are allowed to be sold and I said you know about 310 blank guns in the United States and the NRA takes a look at that and they realize they've got a saturated Market guns are being constipated if you were at your house
00:34:46so when we take a look at gun ownership had it safe to talk about gun-owning households so if you were households owning guns but the households that do on Gonzo more and more of them to the NRA needs to sell a product to a guy who already has 2 3 5 7 10 20 guns so they're going to want to sell a new gun and that's why they make concealed carry laws more relaxed so you can manufacture and sell a new gun here this little gonna put into your purse is still going to turn into a bag and you can sell the bags with that that that's why they actually repealed the ban on assault rifles so you can sell salt rifles 10 million assault rifles in United States now silencers that's why they want to deregulate silencers because they can sell silencers on the American suppressor Association fax that bill when a gun is discharge to feel like firing a gun secretly firing a gun violence but it's much more science much quieter
00:35:42suppressors also known as silencers are the hearing protection of the 21st century Sportsman despite common myths and misconceptions suppressors
00:35:57budgie creasing you over all sound signature suppressors help preserve the hearing of recreational Shooters hunters and hunting dogs on round-the-world all Americans have the right to protect their hearing we will continue to spend our time and resources until this is a reality for every citizen of this country uplifting and inspiring music at narration courtesy of the American suppressor Association not everybody feels like the suppressor Association is protecting their hearing take this guy's been hunting with his dog for over 20 years as there is no need when you're hunting big game you're using calibers that are whale faster than the speed of sound so there's no positive side to using a silencer other than nobody knows that you are anywhere around true Hunters are actually conservationist well when you make it easier for people to go against all the other laws that are set in place to help better the deer herds to help better turkey populations
00:36:57you're safely negating all of conservation
00:37:07so guns are so deeply and meaningfully and Grain in our culture that we are no doubt drowning in studies and research and think tanks and more studies about how these machines can better serve humanity and be made more safe right where where is a research study we've got 33000 people dying every year in the United States the Dickey Amendment which is put such a chill on Research said that if the CDC does any research on gun violence we're going to take any money they do for researching Advance I'm going to take that away from them quickly who's Jay Dickey and why does his name attached to this notorious Amendment to the Brady Bill which everybody including even Ted Nugent seems to support well in 1996 Center for Disease Control came out with the study about gun violence and by the time people were starting to call gun violence an epidemic the problem with the study was that the NRA hated it because it didn't look too good for guns so
00:38:06one of their go to staunch supporters of the second amendment was Jay Dickey and so he spoke out against the CDC report to raise emotional sympathy for those people who are for gun control so the NRA donated 1.6 million dollars to Congress members who then in turn supported the Dickey amendment was quite a win for the NRA because almost every single member of Congress who received the donation from the NRA voted for this piece of legislation you federally fun lavian and Ed blood red States but this story has a twist
00:39:02I think the CDC should do the gun research that relates to gun violence
00:39:10after the Oregon school shooting and again after Orlando Dickie the self-described NRA man announced a drastic change it before he said he regretted bringing this ban on Research into existence science has answers and research is the way to free it that's the way I said he'd notice safety advances in other Industries any Drew attention to things like Highway barricades in his home state of Arkansas so now amazingly Dicky is leading the charge to undo the Dickey Amendment this is how we spending his retirement as I have learned as I come back into the into the real world who we don't know what we can do with guns what we didn't know what we could do with head-on collisions either
00:39:58and I'm saying it's it's time for us to do it and fax it he's calling all of his former colleagues on Capitol Hill and he's asking them to quote Yvonne
00:40:10everybody talking about gun control. Get rid of the guns that I like them you got to go. You don't have to work out
00:40:21you don't need no gun control you know what you need we need some bullet controller on the bullets that's right. Bob dollars purple you know what it cost $5,000 to be no more innocent bystander
00:40:58second part of the whole gun in a bit is collectible Firearms such as this
00:41:06greater fire and probably ever made most desirable
00:41:11Vanessa strap down empty shaking hands
00:41:21yeah but I'm going to hold onto part of it too just in case your slippery little hands drop it
00:41:29this is top 1901 football and they shot competitive win who was the best there ever was the very best shooter of all time never lost a match ever done I like she was a girl and her last name is Oakley in Annie Oakley that's correct she never lost a match she went to England took on the best shotgun Shooters in the world beat up Destra where was girl there's a lot of interest in competitive shooting again because of the Olympics and so that's a real good way to get started
00:42:15I'm not going to lie every once in awhile I wonder is there some value in getting into it as a hobby more than once that Daisy BB gun the pink one has caught my eye I don't know why so considerate if guns weren't so damn dangerous so I asked him why don't some of these reasonable safety regulations will get into these in a minute still no like they do with cars and toaster ovens and just about any other tool do we use pieces of Machinery that typically aren't involved in murder and accident epidemics why isn't there more give on regulating weapons around cuz it said it's absolute crap everybody else in the world has got these massive weapon systems for an example so we're going to limit ourselves to legitimate people in this country and limit herself now if you're illiterate person you should be able to have anything you want but those guns don't get used to send off foreigners or invasions
00:43:15are the bad guys are going to get things always you know what they always get stuff they don't abide by laws in any way shape or form so that's the Chicago scenario right now
00:43:28to ask a guy in a gun shop why he thinks guns get such a bad rap and you got a pretty unexpected answer
00:43:37you have to go to a psychological concept called stimulus generalization means put a stimulus up in front of the right person he's looking for an answer why all the sudden he says there's my answer so Debbie Cooper jumps out of an airplane the violence Sensational America news media which is created most all of this this is going to be that answer Shameless generalization 10 hijackings in a row Columbine happens what happens to a whole bunch more so who is not held accountable so I mean it's real simple Cooper Central stimulus generalization
00:44:24we're going to be for a while to work conversion friend at the gun shop but before we leave him the final thing that he said that you're going to hear unless you decide to go visit him at The Gun Room on South East Foster which I recommend is something that actually resonated with us cuz there's something to be said for the responsibility of this this thing that's that did they have in their hands and could potentially be dangerous that huge responsibility when you put a bullet in him and kill him and then you have to go over and you have to take your knife out of your sheets and you have to cut him up and you have to get bloody hands and and maybe if a whole bunch of congressmen and Senators for an example maybe if they got their hands a little bloody every once in awhile I would be reluctant to send 50,000 people to somebody else's Ward
00:45:23what's what's this about guns being dangerous well Bobby go on and clean the guns I'll be in there in a minute that's right they kill people. All had guns been around for years if they were dangerous I just think someone would have said something
00:45:44how do you know who's the bad guy
00:45:51generally I don't think anybody's really bad and it's hard to just make bad choices and Identity or misinformation or extreme emotional duress or you just can't tell which guy is the guy is making the bed choice
00:46:12well there's actually one new type of legislation that's out there working its way through the courts that deals with mental health that's on the front lines of the gun discussion Washington State just passed it and California has a very similar one they call it a gun violence restraining order so back a couple of years ago guy named Elliot Rodger he was acting very strangely since early twenties and his parents were very concerned went to law enforcement said can you talk to my son and we're really concerned about him he's making threats and such the police talk to him said he hasn't done anything wrong we can't charge it was something we can do he subsequently killed 6 people so that was in the spring I was in May that by that September California legislator had passed a B101 for the gun violence restraining order so now families can go to the courts and say we are really concerned about a loved one can you please temporarily remove dunce
00:47:06that sounds really hard
00:47:11in the state of Oregon a similar law didn't pass last September was having some problems with his ex-wife of a custody his ex-wife told the judge I have lot of concerns about him he's aggressive rich is freezing a lot of red flags they could have gone to a judge of that time it said please use a law to prevent December 2nd he post an ad online that says anybody got a gun for sale or trade
00:47:3823 Days Later Christmas Day this just a special Christmas Day
00:47:43he shoots his wife and she's a police officer and this was available could have passed every every single session I'm thinking please don't let this happen don't let this if we go to lose you spell no I don't want anybody died because you lost this pill what kind of brings you to Dana's questions about how can you tell who the bad guys are because I can see an argument being made that law is abused or the law is used to restrain people who might be the only subjectively viewed as being a hazard his it's hard to tell who the bad guys are in other words every law is flawed pretty much make speed limits are fly
00:48:26it's hard to wrap your brain around every conceivable outcome of a given piece of legislation I mean just look at Jay Dickey and his call for research to stop by gun violence my gut tells me one thing and my head tells me another I think that's where we are the country
00:48:40here's one final puzzle to chew on for this episode
00:48:44Dana framed it a few minutes ago and here's the basic challenge as articulated by Wayne LaPierre head of the NRA as parents we do everything we can to keep our children safe it's now time for us to assume responsibility for our schools
00:49:01the only way the only way to stop a monster from killing our kids is to be personally involved and invested in a plan of absolute protection the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun
00:49:30what are the basic tenets of our show one of the basic tenets of my life
00:49:36one of my core philosophies is that there's always more than one way to do anything that problem is solved in a Rambo movie and then there's the evidence one example that is the college shooting a fact it was a concealed handgun license holder with a gun and arms guy who was a veteran had experience knew what he was doing with guns and of course was not able to stop thru arm everybody a person has to start shooting an open fire before somebody can be can stop them it only takes a matter of seconds to shoot a lot of bullets off the bad guy out but even if the hypothetical good guy with a gun wasn't injured and follow that person then how did the police officers know who's the good guy with a gun in his a bad guy with a gun they know no good hypothetical situation that is often argued for it soon becomes a horrible mess in their words
00:50:34actually at there was a shooting in Flint Michigan a little girl in Colorado and she was only 6 years old she was shot to death by a classmate classmate found his uncle's gun at school and brought him into school and he shot her and she died
00:50:51I think he was too young to understand what he was doing was only six against your world were first grade teachers carry guns
00:51:01then take the case of Gabby Giffords would ultimately stop that situation from being an absolute Massacre was the size of the killers magazine a gun regulation a reasonable one this guy's opening fire he's shooting everyone then he ran out of bullets and he had to he had to switch magazines so he got another magazine out and when he did that my friend Patricia maisch the woman in her 60s she jumped on him. They got away from him and then two other guys helped or tackle him that's how that shooting stopped when people are hunting in the state of Oregon if you're hunting for large games like a big elk or something like that you only have 5 bullets at once if you're hunting for Birds you're only left three of the time it gives the the Alpena more of a sporting chance to get away but you know you want to shoot people you get as many as you can possibly have
00:51:54in the next episode of Rome school to find out why really why the regulations are what they are about guns and why the battle is so weird we're also going to go shooting at shooting range and I'm going to finally fire my first gun under the watchful eye and my friend Mike finally going to meet two men who both lost their little brothers to gunfire one of them lost two little brothers and we're going to find out about the art and advocacy projects in both of these men have created in response was thanks very much for listening this is been Rome School the Genie's out of the bottle from school is written and produced by me Jim brown bird with a lot of help from my daughter's Dana and Veronica production from Lydia Richie been Landsberg and I make the music under the name wonderly an assistant production now from Alexis Kenya where now non-profit so please visit our website donate if you can and check out the really cool slideshows for each episode did Lydia Richie put together thanks for listening to see out there on the road

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