Full Transcript for All About Small Debt Buyer Growth Strategies | Amber Russo | Ep. 296

00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:52.319 And so, you know, buying direct from them, working, you know, really working with just straight charge off paper, you know, and then certainly if I want to get into the space of credit card market or, you know, retail installment loans, you have to partner with folks that are buying nationally who are willing to sort of JV with you and let you peel off some states. 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:54.560 Usually that's not one or two. 00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:55.280 Yeah. 00:02:55.599 --> 00:03:01.759 Um, or where there are still resale provisions in the contracts. 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:10.960 You know, we saw those a lot early on in the in debt buying, you know, where you could just sort of retrade uh different state packages. 00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:12.719 I do think that that's there. 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:13.840 It exists. 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:15.280 I'm buying some of that. 00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:20.479 However, you really have to up your game in terms of what, you know, your qualifications. 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:25.039 You have to be prepared to be audited by those original creditors as part of the downstream. 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:33.199 You have to be able to show your RMAI certification that you meet all of those standards. 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:38.719 Otherwise, the banks will not agree for you to be in that retrade position. 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:45.439 So even in a retrade, a lot of times they're maintaining the right to approve those buyers. 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:52.479 And so the it's not like in being downstream, the qualifications are any lesser. 00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:56.400 And I agree that there's a lot of opportunity at the local level. 00:03:56.479 --> 00:04:12.159 And starting my career in this industry at Credit Max, we were selling on an individual account basis, mostly zip code-based files, so that an attorney could come in and build a portfolio that specifically was going to work for their needs. 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:17.600 And I think that was an interesting approach, but obviously a very different model for a very different time. 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:29.120 And so as you've gone through that growth, what have been some of the catalysts that have really worked well for you as you've expanded into new states and tried to grow your footprint into more regional? 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:33.439 I'll tell you what, I mean, and I and I think you and I have both said this before. 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:37.199 The relationships are the most important thing in this business. 00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:40.639 And so I've gone where partners of mine have gone. 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:47.839 If a law firm says that they're looking to expand their footprint into two new states, I look for opportunities there. 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:51.920 If I know that that law firm is always already a good partner of mine. 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:56.399 And uh we sort of take that growth step together. 00:04:56.639 --> 00:05:01.439 And I think that that's been a good organic model for our growth, right? 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:06.720 It's not, you know, we're not picking states off of a map with a, you know, with a dart. 00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:11.199 It really just is like an organic growth with my partners. 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:14.000 Which is an interesting approach. 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:21.040 So from a partnership perspective, it sounds like performance might not be the only thing that's important to you. 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:33.279 What are some of those other things in those law firm or agency partnerships where you really find value beyond just the core performance numbers that everybody talks about? 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:38.879 I think it's important that, you know, you again, you're succeeding and failing together, right? 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:52.879 And so if I can look at a potential purchase and before saying to my firms, here's your plate, eat off of it, I can say, can you look at this and tell me, do you see any, do you foresee any problems? 00:05:53.040 --> 00:06:02.720 Do you, you know, do we have any, should I go back and ask for additional media on this particular sample so that you can look at it more closely? 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:12.000 I like, I think that having that relationship outside of just performance numbers and showing that, you know, we all respect each other's opinions. 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:29.360 Sometimes I have to say, hey guys, listen, I had to buy this product in Tennessee, despite maybe knowing that we might have some trouble with a particular court because I bought it in my other footprint, you know, in my other state footprints. 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:34.639 And so sometimes we have to have that conversation, which is like, oh, thanks, Amber, you know. 00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:38.319 Um, but it's a true partnership. 00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:46.800 And I think that that is what makes you successful outside of a traditional service rate scorecard, right? 00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:48.800 What's the relationships? 00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:53.759 And then it sounds like it's also some of that ease of doing business with another organization. 00:06:53.920 --> 00:07:02.959 Some of it is about like, hey, I've I've known this owner for 25 years, we've been working together, we've had a lot of success together, but it's also about how easy are they to work with? 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:05.040 How fluid is the technology? 00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:07.839 How easy is it for me to be passing files back and forth? 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:14.000 How quickly are they responding to client services requests or or disputes and things of that nature? 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:18.319 You know, how complex is that matrix that you're looking at? 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:25.519 And do you think it's more or less kind of complex than, you know, maybe larger or similar organizations? 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:33.199 I think larger organizations have a

tendency to partner with larger firms or larger agencies, right? 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:39.439 So you do end up sort of the scorecard drives your market share and things like that. 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:44.720 When it's small to small, I do think we have a little bit of that hometown advantage. 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:49.279 You know, I'm you learn things that don't show up on a scorecard. 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:54.959 I've got one judge that's gonna make you fly to Arkansas, you know, for a trial. 00:07:55.120 --> 00:07:59.040 He's not, he's not letting you do a Zoom appearance. 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:05.120 So I think you have that home that hometown advantage and sort of that small business relationship. 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:12.560 And and I will say too, look, I you know that I've come from the law firm side. 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:14.000 So it's really where my comfort is. 00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:18.480 We have a heavy legal strategy on the products that we buy. 00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:26.399 That said, I've done a lot of work with agencies too and tried to expand our digital collection strategy, right? 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:33.840 A lot of that, that's more difficult to have this, you know, hey, what do you think about this and what's happening here? 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:39.679 It really boils down to what are, you know, what are your email addresses? 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:41.919 What's your data integrity like? 00:08:42.159 --> 00:08:48.799 You know, you know, can you get me cleaner information so that I can right party contact your folks? 00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:55.519 So I do have to do a different sort of work on that product, depending on where it's going. 00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:56.960 That's interesting. 00:08:57.120 --> 00:09:14.480 And in what needs to be prepared in order to empower that partner to be able to actually collect, whether it be through a collections channel or a litigation channel, and you know, giving them the tools and the documentation that are necessary for success, I would think would be, you know, a pretty big part of that. 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:22.000 And, you know, as as we think about how leveling the playing field in the debt buying space has changed over time. 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:36.960 As someone who started as a small debt buyer and has grown into a more mid-sized one, have you found value in the RMAI certification program in being able to demonstrate that you operate on that level playing field? 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:38.080 I have. 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:48.720 And like I mentioned earlier, you know, it comes up in conversation when I'm looking to partner with a seller, they ask, it's in some of my sales agreements. 00:09:48.879 --> 00:10:04.320 I think that the certification standards are or the certification program is incredibly valuable, not only for our advocacy as an industry, but also then as saying, look, I meet these requirements as a debt buyer. 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:14.240 I do think that as we progress forward, we'll start to ask our vendors to become certified as part of that plan as well, right? 00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:19.840 You know, I mean, already you see law firms and agencies really embracing the certification program. 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:24.559 I think process servers are the natural next extension. 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:25.039 Yeah. 00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:25.519 Yeah. 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:30.240 Because the more that I can say we're all in this again, you know, right? 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:37.120 We're all in the relationship together, but we all have to be in the compliance together as well. 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:39.039 I think it's a fair statement. 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:46.720 And holding everybody else accountable to the level at which you are held accountable, I think makes a lot of sense. 00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:53.840 For me, the certification program provides that third-party audit capability. 00:10:53.919 --> 00:10:58.080 And so I think it demonstrates for everybody that we're holding it to the same standard. 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:17.840 It was also my experience earlier on in the certification program that a lot of smaller creditors, as they were preparing for their first sale, were looking to it as a guideline for the types of due diligence and RFI criteria that they need to be evaluating, reviewing, documenting, et cetera, as they're going through that bid process. 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:25.360 So I think that certification has earned that level of trust that kind of allows it to be a double-edged sword. 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:26.799 No, I agree. 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:36.159 And I think even in the documentation standards, right, you know, you can point to that and say, this is exactly what I need in any sale. 00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:42.720 I will say, and to your point of the audits, you know, as a small debt buyer, it wasn't really getting audited very often, right? 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:47.039 Particularly before some of the retrad, right? 00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:51.600 I was just working with smaller local banks or local credit unions. 00:11:51.759 --> 00:11:55.759 So because of that, there wasn't a lot of like an audit process happening. 00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:59.200 The certification process helped me. 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:03.279 It was like all of a sudden I had a boss watch, you know, checking. 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:05.120 Are all these things happening right? 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:06.559 And it and that's good. 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:12.000 I mean, it was good to have that um that confidence level, right? 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:15.519 Of yep, I did that right, or I could tweak what I'm doing here. 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:30.080 Um, so I would recommend to anybody, even if you feel like you're not big enough, do go through that process, you know, be part of this, the what what helps us qualify debt buyers in our space. 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:37.919 In fact, now, in order to be a debt

buyer member of RMAI, you do have to obtain your certification within a year of joining. 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:41.360 So I think that, you know, because of that change, right? 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:47.279 Folks that want to sort of get into the space say, all right, I'm gonna have to just go ahead and do this right off the bat. 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:50.639 So I think it's important for a lot of creditors. 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:55.600 And, you know, we've been in this industry for a long time and we've learned a lot through our experiences. 00:12:55.679 --> 00:13:12.639 And I think the certification program is one of those opportunities for newer organizations to get up to speed faster because it's just such a level of detail in the documentation and the expectations that we have of each other that was never really written down before. 00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:14.399 I mean, like we all kind of knew them. 00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:21.279 We all kind of knew what we were responsible for and what we were gonna see tomorrow, but we we weren't measuring it the same way. 00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:25.039 And I think that's provided a layer there as well. 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:26.080 Well, I agree. 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:32.159 They're working on 15.0 right now, uh, so the 15th iteration of standards. 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:46.480 And I think that the team that works with Farm AI on the standards committee and on the certification council, you know, they do a lot of work to make sure that we're always hitting developments in the industry and making sure that we're watching those standards. 00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:49.200 I think they do a great job of balancing it, right? 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:55.200 They're looking for those standards and what needs to change, but at the same time, they're not changing for the sake of change. 00:13:55.360 --> 00:14:04.639 They're changing as things are actually changing in the industry, which is a pitfall that we've seen, you know, other organizations fall into in the past, even outside of our space. 00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:06.240 I'll give you a good example. 00:14:06.320 --> 00:14:08.639 I mean, your favorite topic, you know, AI. 00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:14.799 I think it was it was proposed maybe two years ago before it got on, right? 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:16.240 Like we at one point it was like no. 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:18.720 It was proposed when I was still on the board. 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:23.840 And I kind of shot back and said, I don't know that we're ready to standardize something we don't understand. 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:29.200 And I think, and that's and that's but it's a good example of how we say, we know this is coming. 00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:30.960 Let's prepare for it. 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:35.279 Even if it doesn't make it in today, we'll come back to it. 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:37.600 And I think that that's a good point, right? 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:53.279 So AI was proposed back, you know, again, when you were sitting at on the board level, and we didn't put it in, we didn't let it go through until we felt, all right, no, now it's time to require some education standards or so I changed. 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:55.360 Even the availability, right? 00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:58.320 Like ChatGPT came out when I was president in 2022. 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:04.480 So it wasn't at that same level of a genetic AI adoption at that point in time. 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:16.480 Now we're continuing to work down the path, but I think that team is is always well, I know that team, and they're always watching and continuing to build what I think is the appropriate amount of modification, right? 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:26.799 We're not just changing to change and to show, you know, look how much we can change, but more about actively doing these things in a way that it benefits all parties involved. 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:37.759 Now, as we talk about the certification standards and we think about kind of some of those smaller creditors, and I know you've done some auto finance companies and credit unions and other small creditors. 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:53.519 What have you learned through the process of educating these creditors on debt sales in general and bringing those transactions from an initial discussion or idea to an actual portfolio in your inventory? 00:15:54.399 --> 00:16:04.559 I'm laughing only because I picture myself digging through documents at a particular, you know, office and like, here, you can look in our filing cabinets. 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:05.120 Great. 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:09.120 That's yeah, I've gotten moving trucks full of FedEx boxes. 00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:13.200 Like, yeah, not so it's not like the funnest part of the job. 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:14.080 Yeah. 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:39.039 I will say, you know, that's sort of an anecdotal response, but it's really, you know, I think what you end up doing is when you're having that conversation, you're like, look, if you're not ready to sell off the book that you have read, like sitting here because your documentation is four and you haven't done a very good job of retention, and things are in, you know, Susan's filing cabinet and Susan quit five years ago. 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:43.759 And then let's help you prepare for the next round of chart. 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:54.639 Like you may not be in a position to sell what's sitting here ready that you'd love to get off your books, but why don't I help you get ready for what you could potentially sell in six months? 00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:57.440 And that's I think that's really the convers. 00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:01.279 I think it's well, uh back to that partnership word, right? 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:13.839 Like if if we're in, we're gonna be in this together, you know, I can't come to you with a great offer unless those documents are in order and your records are kept well. 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:20.240 Uh and so sending me

out to the, you know, to the filing cabinet's not, you know, I can buy four accounts. 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:21.920 Like that's not, you know. 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:25.200 And I do, so I think it's really an education. 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:26.000 I mean, you said that. 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:33.279 And I think that it really is helping even these, you know, local uh auto auto finance companies or whatever. 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:35.839 No, this is what you'll need later. 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:39.680 I think going upstream is the best thing you can do. 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:48.000 There's no point in building a relationship with the creditor if you're not going to help them fix what's happening on the origination side, which increases the value that you're able to pay for it. 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.519 As a debt buyer, you can only pay what you can pay for a file, right? 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:56.480 You still have to be able to turn some sort of positive cash flow on that investment. 00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:00.240 And so I think it's a it's an interesting balance that we start to see. 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:01.920 No, I agree. 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:08.319 So is we want, you know, we want to bring folks to market for small debt buyers like me. 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:13.680 I mean, it may not be like I said, it may never go back to if you're a one or two state footprint. 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:15.519 I mean, you know, that's a very difficult. 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:26.400 You probably have already facilitated those relationships in your state or states, you know, because there really is only so much you can do sort of at that smaller level. 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:27.039 Fair. 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:43.759 Uh when you're dealing with the smaller account levels, uh, you know, the challenge for me as a broker, as a buyer was that the volume of accounts never offset the amount of work that had to go into it, unless you were building a longer-term solution and I was going to be the solution for the next 10 years. 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:44.240 Right. 00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:53.759 We're going to buy all these accounts going out for the next decade, which is not a forward flow that anybody's signing, but those relationships, I think, drive where those go. 00:18:53.839 --> 00:19:00.240 And the smaller the organization, the more personal the relationship needs to be in order to find a successful partnership. 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:00.880 Yeah. 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:10.640 Or understanding that even if the volume's low, you're willing to expand your footprint and, you know, buy the 12 accounts they have in another state. 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:17.839 You know, but I think that it's it's about partnerships and the growth for both of you. 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:20.400 Well, let's go back to the partnerships for a minute. 00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:27.759 You know, you're a smaller organization, you're probably larger in some of the firms you're placing with, you're smaller in others. 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:43.440 How do you maintain that type of control over the accounts, keep things interesting, and build those relationships when you are either a large fish in the small pond or a small fish in the very large pond? 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:46.240 How does how does the strategy change for you? 00:19:47.920 --> 00:20:00.720 So, I mean, look, in any situation, because it's me and I'm boots on the ground, I mean, I will show up at your door if we need to have a really important conversation. 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:03.119 You know, you have to be flexible in that way, right? 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:03.920 It's a partnership. 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:10.240 And I've if I've said that to you in the beginning, then you should expect that I will show up on the on the door. 00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:25.440 But I think, right, for this, for my larger firms, it's tough because I recognize that I'm not, I'm not their substantial client, you know, I'm not the one ri bringing, you know, paying the bills. 00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:34.880 But I think that what I've realized through those partnerships is that a lot of those firms say or agencies say, look, we want a diverse, you know, account base. 00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:39.039 Like we want to have small debt buyers in our inventory. 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:41.680 You know, you guys don't cause me too much grief. 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:48.319 Sometimes I like to say there's a machine happening over at those large law firms or large agencies. 00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:52.880 And it's I'm fine to say, I'm gonna plug myself into that machine. 00:20:53.200 --> 00:21:00.079 Throw, throw my, you know, small inventory in with what's running through your uh your factory. 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:03.759 So I think that that's what that looks like with the larger firms. 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:07.440 And, you know, from time to time, you have to say, look, I get it. 00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:09.680 You're so busy, but can you make time for me? 00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:18.319 And you have to be willing to say, Oh, you don't have time to meet with me for lunch at an NCBA conference because you're meeting with your biggest client. 00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:19.519 Understood. 00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:26.400 Let's set something up for the following week, you know, and you have to be willing to recognize that. 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:31.519 For my small firms, you know, we'll spend two days together. 00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:33.359 What's the strategy look like? 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:35.200 What are we doing together? 00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:37.359 How can we fix this problem? 00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:46.319 And when they say something like, Look, I just can't find a great legal assistant to prepare your affidavit packages. 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:50.000 Well, then it's real easy to say, great, I'll do that on my end. 00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:55.519 I'll hire somebody, I'll get those prepared for you before I

send them. 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.759 So it's really about understanding like, where are the gaps and how can I help? 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:01.039 I like that. 00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:05.440 Where are the shortcomings and how can we close the distance on the gap? 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:15.519 I would think even as a small organization within a even a larger firm, it might give you some opportunities to be a first member, right? 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:18.720 You get to be that group because you've got a little bit more flexibility. 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:20.160 You're the decision maker. 00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:24.720 It doesn't have to run through a board and seven committees and 45 discussions. 00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:27.279 Like you can just, you know, kind of make a decision. 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:28.079 Do we want to do this? 00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:29.680 I have a particular question. 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:30.960 I'll tell you a story here. 00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:37.440 Well, I have a particular law firm that likes to say to his staff, like, don't try and fool Amber. 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:38.559 Like she knows. 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:43.759 Like, you know, you can't say, like, we just the the courts are behind. 00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:48.799 Like, mm, I can pull up, you know, I know how to do a record search. 00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:51.200 You know, and I think that that's it too, right? 00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:53.279 Like, true partnerships are not about. 00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:58.160 Like, don't try and that, you know, don't try and soft pedal your way through, whatever. 00:22:58.240 --> 00:22:59.759 You know, just be on, tell me what's happening. 00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:01.759 Tell me when you're back to send. 00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:02.400 Yeah. 00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:04.480 This was not done on time. 00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:05.279 I'm sorry. 00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:07.599 Here's what I'm doing to solve the problem. 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:10.319 I would prefer that response as well, but that's just me. 00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:10.799 Yeah. 00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:11.200 You know. 00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:11.680 Yep. 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:19.839 I just think maybe if that's the lesson for the audience, like just be transparent because somebody's gonna find it. 00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:31.279 So one of the things that we always talk about when we talk about the different sizes of debt buyers is financing and how different organizations are ultimately funding their purchases. 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:34.640 You know, we've got that, call it those smaller groups that are friends and family. 00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:43.359 You've got others that are using specialty finance vehicles, you've got others still that are doing syndicated bank lines or a bank line or a syndicated bank line. 00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:45.599 So there are a couple of different options. 00:23:45.839 --> 00:24:03.599 As an organization that started small and self-funded, do you find that

gives you a competitive advantage in working with creditors because you don't have that secondary opinion or approval necessary in order for you to execute on a deal that you know is a good fit for you? 00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:04.799 I do. 00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:09.039 And it's certain I do lead, you know, I am forward with that, right? 00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:14.319 Like, look, I can close, I can close quickly because I don't have to talk to I don't have to talk to many people. 00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:15.200 Yeah. 00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:18.799 You know, and I do think that that's helpful. 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:24.160 I also think that it's allowed it's allowed me to be able to pass on things too, right? 00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:36.640 Like if I know that there's only a certain number I'm going to spend this month, it really helps me make decisions, I think, that have not been like, you know, oh, perhaps I'll risk this one and buy this deal that I don't love. 00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:37.839 Why? 00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:45.279 Because, again, it's it's our money and we only, you know, we only have a certain amount of it. 00:24:45.599 --> 00:25:05.920 So But you but on the flip side, you've got larger organizations that find themselves with deployment targets and now they're making purchase or investment decisions, not necessarily based on the best interest of that transaction or that deal opportunity, but based on their need to deploy capital in order to keep their capital available. 00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:06.960 Well, sure. 00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:26.480 Or, you know, what if a certain portfolio takes you longer to get to your servicers because you're packaging it up real, you know, you're making sure that it's going to perform the way it needs to, or there's some, you know, data sanitization that you want to do prior to putting it out. 00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:34.160 Well, I can afford that delay, you know, not a super long one, but I don't have to pay, I'm not, I'm not trying to pay anybody back right away. 00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:37.920 So I do think that there are benefits to self-funding. 00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:40.880 It will keep us a certain size. 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:54.480 But, you know, if we can support our families this way, and you know, we're we're marginally successful, I think that I'm happy to stay in this lane of size and and uh scope. 00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:56.720 It seems very intentional, right? 00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:59.839 You don't want to find yourself chasing the investments. 00:25:59.920 --> 00:26:04.720 It's not like you and your team could not find other capital. 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:05.680 That's not the issue. 00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:17.200 The issue is a specific purchase decision to give yourself flexibility and to give yourself more control over not only the portfolios, but the timing of liquidation, because now you only have one master to answer, right? 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:20.799 Like internally, which has always been my preference as well. 00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:22.880 I I can definitely respect that. 00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:34.640 You know, as a as a leader in the industry and as someone who has grown up here and found opportunities of your own as you've staked your own claim in the space. 00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:45.119 What advice do you have for others that are at the beginning of their career and are now starting to look at doing something on their own or expanding out? 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.960 You know, what advice do you have for others that are in your shoes 10 years ago? 00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:54.319 Well, I think that the community is your is our biggest asset, right? 00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:59.759 So the the other leaders in the space, the other folks that have been there. 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:08.880 I mean, you know, you have you and I who'd be happy to talk with anybody that's trying to come up in the space or or kind of make their way. 00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:14.960 I've heard before, I've heard from folks like, look, like some of these guys, like they've got their tight-knit circle. 00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:16.319 It's hard to break into. 00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:20.480 And all I can tell folks coming in is raise your hand. 00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:29.039 Like, let us know that you're interested because I, unless I know, I can't grab you and help you understand this is the next thing you do. 00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:33.279 This is, you know, somebody emailed me the other day and said, How do you find your deals? 00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:36.799 I'm not, you know, there's no secret here. 00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:39.200 I'll introduce you to some brokers. 00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:49.200 I'll help you, you know, it really comes down to your shop, your financing, and, you know, kind of the risk you're willing to take. 00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:56.240 I don't know, you know, if at my age, if if if I'd say, well, this is what I'm gonna start doing tomorrow, right? 00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:59.119 It takes a lot of history to get to get here. 00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:04.079 But I think it would be fine to say, look, I'm interested in doing these things. 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:06.799 How can you help me do that? 00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:09.839 I think that's a a great way to look at it. 00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:11.519 I think it's a great way to look at it. 00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:22.640 There's a there's a lot of people that are coming up, and if you don't raise your hand, we don't know who to reach out to because there's a lot of people that are happy in the role that they're in and they're not looking to expand or grow. 00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:29.119 So if you do have that internal desire, I think there's no better way than to raise your hand and volunteer. 00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:38.559 But if you are going to volunteer, as I said entirely too many times at Summit this year, if you're going to volunteer, you got to show up on time at the time and actively participate. 00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:41.519 Don't put your name on things and then not participate. 00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:43.200 It is so mission critical. 00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:45.839 And that is the kind of stuff that gets noticed, right? 00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:46.799 When you're there. 00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:58.400 But it's also a really easy way to make some new friends, drive some new relationships, and put yourself in a position of personal growth within the space. 00:28:59.119 --> 00:28:59.519 Mm-hmm. 00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:08.640 I mean, you know, you look at the folks that mentored us and, you know, got brought us to shows or or what I mean, those folks are starting to retire. 00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:12.000 And, you know, we're not the young crowd anymore. 00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:13.359 Sad for us. 00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:22.720 But, you know, that means that there's a whole new generation of leadership that really, you know, if they want to get involved, there's there's opportunities for that for sure. 00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:27.680 Well, Amber, I think that is a strong message for our listeners today. 00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:33.039 I really do appreciate you coming on, sharing all of your insights, spending a little bit more time with me. 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:42.640 It was great to see you at the RMAI Executive Summit and really excited for your presidency and all of the things that you've been cooking up and trying to push forward. 00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:46.720 Heavy is the head that wears the crown, and I think you're doing a great job. 00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:48.160 Thank you very much. 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:49.519 Thank you for having me. 00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:51.839 I appreciate our conversation. 00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:52.960 Absolutely. 00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:58.960 For those of you that are watching, if you have additional questions you'd like to ask Amber or myself, you can leave those in the comments on LinkedIn and YouTube. 00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:00.079 We'll be responding to those. 00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:04.079 Or if you have additional topics you'd like to see us discuss, you can leave those in the comments below as well. 00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:10.480 Willing to bet I can get Amber back here at least one more time to help me continue to create great content for a great industry. 00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:12.559 But until next time, Amber, thank you so much. 00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:14.480 I really appreciate all of your time. 00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:15.839 Thank you. 00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:17.599 And thank you, everybody, for watching. 00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:18.720 We'll see you all again soon. 00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:19.759 Bye, everyone.