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00:00:00hello and welcome to the ride that podcast today my guest on the show is Jeff Rossen Jeff is the guy who invented Yahoo mail he's also founder of many startups and now apartment why come in there and in famous Silicon Valley tech incubator that invest in companies such
00:00:16as Dropbox weebly stripe air being bi and many others personally Jeff is one of my favorite part is why commentator because he's firm but kind he'll quickly and honestly tell you exactly what he thinks about what you're doing and then he'll help you fix it I am really
00:00:33excited to have Jeff here today enjoy the show Mr on his computer scientists are a programmer yeah I'm I'm drunk I'm missing some of the computer the the programmers and artists are calling sells computer scientists cause it sounds cooler but anyway I got a degree in computer science
00:00:56and became a program around Silicon Valley in worked as a programmer for quite a long time always dreaming of being on an entrepreneur but %HESITATION but you know one thing led to another and I had a great Christian often Hewlett Packard and and I got a bunch of
00:01:12great opportunities and I went back to school with HP sort of a couple of times and got to different degrees one amasses computer science someone an MBA and so whole bunch of time passed before I really got to %HESITATION you know to she'd my my entrepreneurial need that
00:01:28I I finally did that in the %HESITATION in the early nineties when the internet craze hadn't my time was pretty good and I I ended up with a company that %HESITATION that that did a bunch of things but eventually created this web based email product called rocketmail which
00:01:46turned into Yahoo mail required in the late nineties by Yahoo and then I spent a bunch of time at Yahoo almost nine years running a group in in a sort of skipped over the fact that I transition from being a programmer to to a manager although I never
00:02:02stop programming program was always my first love in every job I've ever had I I can't on programming but it was certainly not the major part of my job after that and any who indeed I I I had management roles and may I I manage a team in
00:02:16the engineering station I became a general manager of division and then the chief product officer over those nine years but eventually left in two thousand six to start off doing a whole bunch of different things but I I %HESITATION really wanted to start a cook my own company
00:02:33in the education technology space but %HESITATION added that the time was right for a variety of reasons and started doing a lot of angel investing in hanging out with my old friend Paul Graham at why commentator and Paul because his company had been purchased %HESITATION in it just
00:02:53a year after my company at Yahoo and so we've known each other Yahoo and kept in touch and and he was an actual person to hang out with a little bit when you start doing angel investing because he was starting to become sort of a guru in the
00:03:09in the start up investing space and I ended up when I was this the seed investor in the original investor and in a company that I ended up becoming the you know of for a couple years in that company got sold to apple and I spent a little
00:03:25bit of time with apple but left out going team back to education wanna it left apple and with a couple of co founders started an educational technology accelerator and we did that with Paul's help because he thought it was a great idea and at the same time he
00:03:41recruited me to be a partner why sees so in two thousand eleven I became a partner YC and founded in educational technology accelerator which was really models purposely with calls help after YC which was a smart thing to model it after of course because it was the first
00:04:01and really I think the best excel reader the best early funder of start ups in both there there was and %HESITATION imagine you twelve which was the name of our educational technology seller did really well but for a variety of reasons after five years all during the whole
00:04:21time I was also a partner YC my partner at the time Tim Brady and I decided to merge imagine he twelve in with why scene that was in twenty sixteen and so now as of now I am I am all solely a apartment YC but imagine K. twelve
00:04:38an addict focus is still there it's a vertical focus within my see that was a pseudo capsule summary I guess maybe longer than a minute to be it's so good I mean it's a it's a long history and I'm actually really curious because in a way you're not
00:04:52a typical sound there that the image of a typical flounder that's been sold around the value eighteen year old who just dropped out of everything and started billion dollar company you're actually had a really good career before you ventured out into the start of world you know that
00:05:09it's actually a little bit of a misconception the average age of a founder YC is over twenty seven and I was a little older than that when I finally got going with my first company in my early thirties which is a little old to do it in fact
00:05:25I always tell people that the you're probably for most folks this the best time to do a start up to start a company is some twenty two to thirty two twenty to thirty five depending on what happens in your life so I was maybe a little on the
00:05:41high side but not as much as you might think okay I mean Yahoo isn't what's upright the founder was in his mid to late eighties when he started the company and then they sold out young John Kuhn who all the fighters from whatever good example that two guys
00:05:59I know very well from their Yahoo guys come in yeah they were there I I think John Madden and forty one my certain you know there's a lot of fathers or older there's no question store Butterfield was in his forties when you start black right actually in terms
00:06:17of enterprise companies arm so there's a bit of a ranger and it kinda depends it doesn't mean that we should write off the twenty two year olds are eighteen year olds I've known incredible finders at that age I've known incredible funders who are older but it does serve
00:06:32skew a little younger just based because of the existence use of the job started ponder it tends to skew younger what helps to be younger to sleep or not leave him work for a hundred hours a week part of it although I would argue it's less about the
00:06:51ability to work hard and spend the time and %HESITATION and have the energy to do that the more about the fact that you just don't have that much else in your life to do so unit distractions you don't have children and a wife usually you %HESITATION and all
00:07:09sorts of other dependencies that distract you from this incredible focus you need to do it at that doesn't mean again that some people with all those things can't focus but the hard part of it is it usually something has to give yeah often for the very best founders
00:07:28it's their personal life in their family life and that's a tough one and I absolutely agree and won't want one thing that I've heard from a lot of founder shore dad's now that they said they became a lot better at managing my time once they became parents because
00:07:43you have to you have to write it was become better at things when you have no choice maybe that's a management track just put yourself in a position where you have no choice and then you'll automatically become absolutely up parenting track right you know if you want your
00:07:58kids to make the right decision don't give them too many choices not that you shouldn't giving his choices but %HESITATION you know at some point helping helping that if you want to help them make the right choice limit the possibilities for sure because if you give him two
00:08:14choices then it's easy for them to choose one or the other and it's still a choice but if you give them twenty then it's overwhelming and then the kids don't really know what to pick actually speaking about teaching kids something let's talk about your childhood and how it
00:08:28shaped you as a person because I bet there were things from your parents and the way you were brought up that really influenced who you are today you know I had a really good childhood I had the our our family life was for the most part pretty happy
00:08:45I had we had four kids I was the second of four three boys in a girl and my dad was a professor of computer science at the university and the state university of New York at buffalo and %HESITATION my parents were you know I think the there are
00:09:11pros and cons as parents they want I don't think ideal parents but they were they were at the same time great parents and you know we had we had family dinners every night and we have great conversations and we play games as families and we had amazing trips
00:09:33as a family we lived overseas as a family we actually I only do it once %HESITATION but they actually lived overseas arm several times and then Matt and my younger siblings lived overseas for a year at a time more than once my dad would take sabbaticals every seven
00:09:56years and we had a we had a we had a great time so is it that a professor yeah who is a professor of computer science how is that but they used to do computer science so just get on the right career choice but not really influenced by
00:10:12that you know a certain it I think it would be it would be silly to say he was an influence when I when I was in college I did not go there at all with the intention of studying computer science however head and you know I had no
00:10:32idea really what I was going to study but in the end computer science with came fairly easily to me and it was certainly the path I I struggle with that because it was the path of least resistance was too easy and felt like I had to be struggling
00:10:47more but but I didn't so I majored in computer science %HESITATION back in the day in fact it's interesting I I am I have an a and AB in computer science or be a it was cut the B. because when I went to Dartmouth in their pretentious and
00:11:03it's you know the the Latin is artist baccalaureus as opposed to be but but back then it was in the math department which was considered an art as opposed to science although that's changed there and in almost every computer science department in the country now he didn't get
00:11:23a B. S. degree yeah exactly I did not give them the S. degree I did get an MS degree in computer science later %HESITATION at what I was out in California but that was a few years later so just a little bit about the past and not to
00:11:40reveal your age but how do you think in our family life changed in the last couple of decades I get a feeling that back when you were growing up I think family was important but it was a different kind of importance like maybe it was a little bit
00:11:59colder on the inside as it is just my view of kind of the past but you know you you said it was happy but I would never I would never never dries it that way I don't think there was a colder thing I I do think from but
00:12:17I do think sort of the traditional relationship between parents and children has shifted over time that for sure in general the dad is more engaged that I certainly change begins early in more diapers and my dad ever did and was more involved in all aspects of my kids
00:12:44growing and nurturing then he was that was just you know the the standard typical American home life was the dad came in the day I went out and worked mom stayed at home with the kids half when when %HESITATION when dad came home he would do you know
00:13:09get ready we have dinner we talked then and then you go back to what my dad always when work for awhile before we before we did anything but %HESITATION but I don't it wasn't very warm family and I think that's true hours warms my parents could given their
00:13:26own you know issues in neuroses but they were that we had a warm family and I I think that that that's not what's different is just that that split between mom and dad and and maybe dad's or or or or more she said a little bit but I
00:13:39don't think the overall laces I wouldn't rest you know just more demonstrative perhaps than it was in the past and more of the warmth came from mom just perform for forcing this may be a little more evenly balanced but I wouldn't say it was it was warmer I
00:13:56think the main difference I would point out the main challenge for today's parents he shifted back in our day the main challenge I think for our parents was TV but it was kind of a relatively not a new thing but programming shifted rapidly in the seventies and eighties
00:14:24when I was growing up and you know I'm and it was a challenge you know kids want to watch it you know TV is this incredibly absorbing thing in kids wanted to watch a lot of it my my dad actually held against this and and did everything he
00:14:42could to ration us from TV even though you know he really wanted to because you wanted to watch sports in the news things like that but and little else really but died today you know just as an example when my wife and I from building the house we're
00:15:03in now and and then the all my kids grew up in we said for sure you know responding to the if you meet the challenges that we knew our parents had no TV's in bedrooms TV is okay but we want to watch as a family we're gonna we're
00:15:23gonna make sure that if we do a TV thing it's a family thing and it didn't matter because by the time my kids were you know ten years old they each had like three TV's in each room because they had a phone they had a laptop and they
00:15:39had you know Tabler access to all those things and and we didn't know what to do about that and I don't think parents distributed out and I think the the isolation that that new media and new devices brings to families is crazy hard for parents to deal with
00:16:01I wholeheartedly agree it's virtually impossible because everywhere you go there's a TV if there's a screen there's some kind of a device you see that all the time I mean it's a societal thing you you walk around and you look at people and everyone's a you know gold
00:16:17gonna we want any mass transit and more people are absorbed in their own end of ice all the time when I go back to my college and I see people walking around there walking around looking at their device all the time it didn't used to be that that
00:16:31you walk around in your head would be open to be seeing a lot of people and it's you know it is I am one of the great challenges of our time I think how to how to how to be present in the world in cyberspace that maybe not
00:16:47simultaneously but it in balance but just a personal observation it's not only that extremely absorbent but from I think a lot of people maybe don't want to make a correlation between devices in behavior but we certainly noticed that the days when our daughter the older one is exposed
00:17:07to a device even for a short period of time her just emotional state goes completely out of whack in all it is is a correlation but at least we've seen it because we don't usually give her a phone or TV or anything but even if you give her
00:17:23a phone to look at pictures for ten twenty minutes next thing you know two hours later she's throwing a tantrum which never usually happens it's because the competition basically anything in real life and compete with screen because green is just so easy yeah I mean there's an adult
00:17:39equivalent to that watch someone who you know stratus from somewhere it's it's an immediate you know studio turn from all my god was my phone where where is my phone how you know we've all been that way like I left without my full the cheese what we're gonna
00:17:59do for the day right liberating arm be without your phone in a weird way you know I was actually impressed with my son who's who's twenty now arm he was about you know doing what twenty year olds do which is sort of you know going out with his
00:18:16friends undoubtedly even though he's a year under age there was alcohol involved but he lost his phone and he thought it might show up so he forced himself to me without a phone for three days and accepted that before you know giving up and getting a new one
00:18:34and it was kind of neat because you and you would see him and instead of having to take his attention away from his phone you can just talk to and he kind of agree that didn't mean that as soon as he got a new phone it wasn't right
00:18:51back into the way we all are but yeah I think it's this is perhaps the ultimate challenge for new parents so you said your son is he the oldest or a yes twenty or a disease I guess that's colleges yes on how challenging is that and this is
00:19:13for all our parents to listeners with older kids right or hold gonna have their college age kids soon you know what what do you see it changing or the last maybe decade that he was growing up from like a little baby too now fully grown adult doing his
00:19:29thing what decade isn't from little baby a decade from a decade ago you know he was almost six feet and you know nice baby so okay so I'm I'm sure you wanted that to be a narrow question it was way too broad because like you just ask me
00:19:50from a little baby to now what changed everything nothing because when that what I have found perhaps one of the biggest added two teams I've had towards towards parenting before I was apparent when I thought my attitude be and now is that I'm I'm a big believer in
00:20:09nature over nurture that I used to be and so many of the traits that we you know notice in my son from when he was a little baby or a toddler to now have remained consistent that you know in many ways your children are the people who they
00:20:29are very very young age of course everything has changed everything in her in every way in the your worries change your your focus changes their focus changes so that's about the best way I can I can answer that question over that school what I guess what I'm curious
00:20:48as to you know jam my way and we're just talking the other day how our oldest is just three years old but we already got to pick a music like future school for her and that choice sounds easy but not not so much because what you pick now
00:21:04could lead or not leads to Stanford fifteen years from now the only time I think what are I remember distinctly my dad basically saying you know zero zero five doesn't matter thank you to the matter we do it's all kind of is a kind of zero grade zero
00:21:25sorry I should say great kindergarten to grade five like is relevant not be certified carriage like it's like elementary school just doesn't matter it's after that then educationally starts happening but there's a lot of evidence he's a rock he was wrong and I think it kind of depends
00:21:42on the kid of course this all depends but there's also some pretty good evidence that and this is a little shocking there who your kindergarten teacher is is predictive of your future salary some evidence that in fact I wouldn't make any claims to the actual veracity and that
00:22:03kind of wild sort of thing done there's some data that that **** up which is a pretty stunning if you're a parent be and just makes you worry more because that just meant for them they they didn't worry that much about it but but yeah I do think
00:22:19that I I do think it's gone way overboard though like people are so so who you know insanely focused on you know that getting your kid into the right preschool and %HESITATION I just think that one of the real flaws I think is that we all put way
00:22:38too much pressure on ourselves and our kids way too early now and and I do think that the simplicity of of some of those decisions back in the day to pressure off in a way that was that was helpful to both parents and kids stress is are in
00:22:58most cases trust me to stress lowers your IQ as an adulterous a child and literally literally if you give a stressed person an IQ testing nuclear calm person IQ test the same person that you test the same test them emergence as when the call building better will have
00:23:19a higher IQ and that's that's something to think about also a great way to hack test that's why there's these these these drugs like Ritalin are so popular amongst kids because you can medicate yourself to do better on tests and you don't take uppers to do that you
00:23:42take something then calms your mind down so that you can focus focuses improve your IQ recently women's rights you know we all feel that right that's what caffeine does we know when when were about doing something in a cafe and all the sudden like I we just focus
00:24:02in and and we have you know we have energy but it's not like crazy certainly we also know quit too much caffeine in were jittery we have a harder time but just the right amount really helps us right I guess that explains the bomber peak right where you
00:24:16just Catherine it enough but also under the influence of alcohol enough that you balance that state for longer well I don't want to come in and that there for me to make any comment on that but I I do think we all know like in that first Cup
00:24:31of coffee while in certain jazz are doing great if you have that fourth Cup of coffee not a good idea for any reason yeah all the sudden you're like jumping you know you're you're you're you build eighty D. into yourself by doing that and then it's hard to
00:24:45accomplish the hard part with parenting really what you do today doesn't show up for a couple years for maybe a couple decades yes like investing in startups write your own your own start up and you won't know the results not for a couple years but for a decade
00:24:58or more and it's true and I do think that that that's one of the complicated things there is the the the these little all these little beasties leaves little human machine to do not come out with a manual I always thought that was kind of shocking where you
00:25:15know we've all had that experience with the first baby where you know you can't believe they just kind of check you out of the hospital and you're sitting there with this thing and you get home and you're like what do we do with it you know what all
00:25:31my god you know and anything that happens you're you you ask yourself we don't know what to do in this situation but what do I do and so whatever you call your parents your friends or whatever and eventually figure it out and then to the second baby but
00:25:44I still remember so vividly taking my first baby out to the car and incredibly awkwardly in gently like putting them in the putting him in his child seats you know took like five minutes to get all the buckles just frightened figure out my first time I'd ever done
00:26:04it right and I was worried about hurting his arm in his late I put him in the second child newscasts Lapham there in your own right yes but it's amazing that it's been twenty years but you remember that moment all I remember so distinctly what you're what you're
00:26:22describing is exactly what I just heard a couple months ago from a friend who just had a new board exactly the same story of like you know I I've never really sure if this thing is so fragile like can get his comment was can even take highway I
00:26:38mean you don't know it and you know every stage is a little bit that way it's like your kids to two and a half years old on the floor screaming and crying as if the world is about to end in your thinking what do I do I can
00:26:54not this is not any like I the historical cortex is not fully developed enough for me to actually have a conversation about this and you know it's hard enough to have a conversation with an adult that's angry it's impossible to have a conversation with a child saying that
00:27:10Tom Luce Agnew forget it you know so what do you do when it's you know it's a conundrum that that every parent or any into because that's just a developmental thing that happens and you have to model your way through it really expanding public right when the end
00:27:26of the day public or not a to me personally it's just it's just time varmint and you know how you feel as a parent as it's all your feelings to Tyler has no concept of it being in public right is just she's she's having an issue but I
00:27:42went to a couple of classes on positive parenting and I think what was shocking there to a lot of parents was that most of the time it's really not about your child that's about you and in the case of a toddler's throwing a tantrum like really you as
00:27:56a parent needs to come down and figure things out first before before they can because they don't have the emotional capability to deal with what's going on with them right now you know it's interesting you say that because I think if there's one lesson the most important lesson
00:28:18I've learned about parenting in every age is not about you you know I have a twenty year old he's not he's here this whole problem is the whole process of a child growing up is them separating from their parents and creating their own place in the world in
00:28:38their own life and and you know for the twenty year old I'm pretty involved still were talking about what he's doing this summer and I'm still paying the bills and take vacations together still and we still have a life together but she is you know when he comes
00:28:59home you know he's a really said to come home and see his parents and he's out the door right he's got a separate life and it's about him them it's not about me it's just not about like my life anymore it's about his life and that's equally true
00:29:16when you're thinking about how you're as you said how you're dealing with a toddler at like and it's very complicated because we have just as many emotions and reactions as they do and your children can be you know yeah unintentionally cruel to you and mean to you and
00:29:36and ignore you and it's not about you and that you know you have to as hard as we I think that says well human beings it's fair to say we all fell I know I have killed many many times on that score but you know we put our
00:29:52own hopes and our own fears and and our own emotions as a lay on top of everything about them and that colors how we treat our children in ways that lots of times is more about us than them and that's almost always a bad strategy that's really excellent
00:30:11advice for everyone to write down I remember and it's hard to remember especially when they get emotional and you get emotional right you have to remember that you have to come down first and you have to well yeah yeah and you know what it is impossible line that
00:30:29you think that you're always thinking about it maybe for for me anyway maybe some parents for it I think different parents of different clarity on the sidelines where do you say well this is about me I need to let them dealer be you know let them cap themselves
00:30:48picked themselves up off the ground in and or or I need to respond in a certain way or you say no no this is my parental duty they may not do that you know your your your daughter is is fifteen and going out wearing something you consider inappropriate
00:31:04when you say something in one do you not and she's a that's hard you know I thought you know I have no no real guidance as to where I should step into more shouldn't and a lot of times I do what I think I should step in my
00:31:20wife looks at me and says you're not we do have to and and you know that causes me %HESITATION you know give me real pockets so it's it's a continuous it's a continuous hard battle and on school back to what I said before there's no manual and and
00:31:39even if there were a manual it would be out of date instantly you know my parents were struggling with the manual how do you deal with this crazy media that suddenly is engulfing your children we have this incredibly like it to the nth degree what we do well
00:31:55you know there's this guy and the bad news is no one knows if the guidance is really right or factor which is this you know in every generation and more so now because things change faster than they used to but every generation you conduct experiments with no controls
00:32:14on your children we're just doing it now and you know it's a live experiment and war war we're just kind of improvising as we go along and trying to do the right thing hire kids yeah you know I used to say that a lot of the innovation that
00:32:31we funded was incremental me for the simple reason that you know he knew radical stuff you're basically doing radical stock to children and you know you can sort of imagine your your kids are the state imagine walking up to a school and you know you you take your
00:32:48ranger your your six year old into first grade and you know hand them off at the school and they say Hey good news we changed everything we have no idea if it's gonna work but this is the first class organic spearmint and your children cool right and you
00:33:04know you know you'd be horrified and grab your child that can take them back home and find a school that wasn't going to experiment on your child right but of course the truth is were experimenting all the time and nobody knows precisely what the outcome is just like
00:33:23here's here's a harden just like we don't even know really what world our kids are going to be coming of age is changing so rapidly what's it going to be like what jobs are going to be available how are they going to live a happy and successful and
00:33:41productive good life what is that what will that mean ten fifteen twenty thirty years I don't know so how do you how do you prepare your kids if it if even you don't actually know what this world is going to look like you want the answer right it's
00:33:56hard when I I I I guess the the only thing you can do is what I tell my kids is you better be flexible you better be good at learning you better you better expect change because you're going to get it and %HESITATION some of that change is
00:34:11going to be hard so you better be resilient and you know I don't know that I've been remarkably successful in building great and resilience and flexibility into my kids for the simple reason that you know a lot of that stuff is like I said I'm a big a
00:34:28big proponent of nature over nurture but you can do what you can do you know I I have a a friend who tells me you know there are you can teach compassion there's ways to do that you need to think about that so even things like compassion which
00:34:45I don't know how some of that is certainly hereditary and some of it is is learned but you know you try to teach your kids everything you can and and project everything you can in model everything you can and hope in the end that that the right stuff
00:35:01sticks not the wrong because one model Ron stuff to unfortunately all of us manage to do that as well no it's a great point because kids kids mirror us so much and every time you do something poorly or in an exhibit negative behavior they pick it up just
00:35:18as fast as all the good things so again it comes back to us right on being good parents and showing it leading by example yeah so where does the imagine K. twelve come in and all of this what's the role of that I guess it should record the
00:35:35White Sea education stream now or is it what it is yeah magic you twelve is is our Tracklisten why CNN take track where where we take that we get a we we work with a ed tech companies that are in each batch and yet the company's NYC as
00:35:56a whole and do what we can to help them be successful did you start it originally because you were frustrated with something about young kids education or just seem like a really good thing to bring into the world well there there there are broadly speaking there are two
00:36:10reasons we started imagine K. twelve one was because it was pretty obvious that technology should have a role in education we are kids were were being educated in the sense of technology and inundated with information knowledge of the sorts right or wrong knowledge all the time it must
00:36:30be one school in which case at the time was like you check your technology the door and there's nothing there and that didn't make sense my partners and I had been part of the day you know the genesis of the internet age and we were thinking this is
00:36:45ridiculous can't like the the schools need to to need to open up to this technology can make use of it it's going to it's going to radically change the way kids kids learn and and by the way is changing the world so schools have to be you know
00:37:05cognizant of that nation change their products to kids be prepared for this brand New World and there's a huge opportunity there because everything is working the way we think it should work in education especially in America and this may be has you know technology can can ameliorate things
00:37:27where they're bad and improve things in every case secondly I think if you want to have a positive impact on and the world aside as a whole there's no better place to focus than than than education in show on a pro people's eyes and aspects educations where you
00:37:47are right or at least one of the places where the key places you start so for those reasons arm imagine you know at tech was a natural place for me to go after you know being pretty fortune and get getting to be part of some really cool things
00:38:02and having the ability to make some choices speaking of making impact something that happened to me the other day I went and read it and then one of the forms of teaching I asked what would it take to get rid of books because to me when I was
00:38:14growing up I remember carrying a lot of books to school and they were heavy and kind of highly unnecessary and very often you don't even need those books in school but you still have to bring him over its at our end going forward in the future you know
00:38:25I CS caring around I Pat and having all the books in the I. pad or something along those lines so but a lot of responses I got on the forum were along the lines of like I don't know we can get rid of books papers gray and you
00:38:36want to touch you pages that kind of stuff maybe books or maybe something else but what do you think we can do over the next five to ten years to make the biggest impact on education you know my daughter has problems thanks tour lugging around whatever twenty or
00:38:51thirty pounds of books all the time it's ridiculous like it's it's the stupidest thing ever but also you know you put your side spoke out there and it's immediately obsolete and you know it instead of having a video of how volcano works it's a picture which is good
00:39:14and you know Sunday instead of having a video you'll be able to step into the volcano in virtual reality which will be better so so they're just not as good as we can do so of course we're going to get rid of them they you know because that
00:39:28that that that video of a volcano weighs nothing you don't care and you can see it anywhere you can bring it with you all put in your pocket it's way better than a book when I can have thousands of those videos and put them in my pocket of
00:39:45course will go away and I I sympathize with the people who love paper and think it's a beautiful thing and you know people still exist in limited amounts but but the sad truth is that the past however those things are good but I don't you know transforming educations
00:40:09well a lot bigger and more complex than that still probably starts with making better teachers and figure out ways we can make better teachers and by the way there's a technological aspect to that to which you might not expect but that's because technology allows you to measure things
00:40:29and making strides parents that it was hard to do in the past so we can figure out ways to help teachers become better or craft and frankly figure out which teachers really aren't gonna be able to make it as arm it in the New World and figure that
00:40:46out for them and for us and you know there's another side of things we need to do there's nothing to do with technology and teachers but you know we need to have we need to make teaching dean as prestigious job as we possibly can maybe the most prestigious
00:41:03job in our society and once we get in there and the and the prospects for the future standard of living and that future prospects United States of America just doing that if we could do that somehow would radically shifted but there's other aspects to preparing kids for the
00:41:20twenty first century there's different things we should teach them we should teach everyone how computer science works and how technology works and we should we should be much more flexible on that much more personalize an adaptive and all those things will help kids have better outcomes and therefore
00:41:37I'm better prospects in their lives so there's there are transforming things we can do weapons education but we can't forget that there are you know as parents and as people who want to impact the education world is that these things have a lot of inertia for good reason
00:41:55think back to that that scenario I gave you where you drop your kid off and you know a lab that's gonna experiment on them and what sort of reticence you might to that sort of thing there's some there's a great story that grant Taverner was the founder of
00:42:16some public schools tells some instant credibility innovative the school system and she's doing amazing things and I I love what they're doing and I'm one of these are doing is that each child is a personalized learning planet PLP and it's different it's complicated and when the implemented this
00:42:36there was a lot of pushback from the entire community from parents and teachers working kids because it was different and it was very deep and very hard to deal with and they found themselves unprepared and in unexpected ways for example she tells a story about how she came
00:42:52home and I had this really moment of conflict with her husband because he was trying to help their child who is in the school with their math and was lost as to how to do it because you know it used to be your son's doing out or something
00:43:08and you made your little rust you grab the textbook you see where they are you help them out this was different and there are massive challenges like that them she was her thing was her school's her into her you know her past to change which was incredibly great
00:43:25positive but hard to implement so these things are complex and difficult and I hope it ended up you just pointed out something %HESITATION cell in a way but I feel like parents with higher income and maybe more time on their hands of more a better ability to buy
00:43:45time right they can actually invest more in their children in these ways but maybe the way to look at technology is that for parents who don't have as much money technology can bring all these experiences two more kids I where you can have fancy schooling can have tutors
00:44:02but you can substitute that was tech you can really like gives amazing science and math and everything experiences to kids who otherwise wouldn't get it because they're stuck in some poor school you know with no funding by the way I think that's awesome awesome point I do think
00:44:22there's a lot of fear that that %HESITATION the technology can exact actually exacerbate the achievement gap that exists United States today especially if you look in communities of color verses persons Caucasian %HESITATION communities Asian printers etcetera but I believe firmly that it if we do this intentionally as
00:44:48a society we can if we take steps intensely side and we can use technology is a great leveler mate may mean maybe some hospital level completely but it can be a great leveler to to %HESITATION make our society much more of a meritocracy to re implement social mobility
00:45:08which is actually incredibly tragically almost died out in America today %HESITATION your your your situation at birth as soon has an extraordinary high probability of determining your outcome in life and that's wrong no one in America believes in that the American dream American dream is that anyone from
00:45:34any strata of society or economic %HESITATION level can do anything and it's also true anymore and I think I really believe that technology has the potential to help bus re employment back I think it is critical for the for the future of our country and our standard of
00:46:01living in an hour for future generations so I really hope it's true anyway well you're making a true I see and imagine I hope what I hope for playing a hope of playing a role in that even if it's a small and I hope I hope that's true
00:46:17I mean I remember clever %HESITATION there were in my badge and summer twelve and they seem to be in ninety six ninety percent of schools in America now so it says it is small yeah I love of course I'm kind of tired of Tyler and Dan and clever
00:46:36and that there are those guys are awesome and %HESITATION they're doing an incredible job I'm actually very proud to say that if you can imagine he twelve %HESITATION companies and the products they have created their in essentially every school in the United States and many many many schools
00:46:57around the world and that's great but changes been incremental so far and we'd really you know we need we need as a society need to make more transformational change to really squeeze out bad and she went back to really bring the United States off to where it can
00:47:18and should be and bring are teaming up here and the rest of the world this is more than a million children in the world and and you know we should all of that has a goal that each and everyone of them have the resources they need to %HESITATION
00:47:33to you know to improve their outcomes and improve their their expectations for a good life and that starts with education by the way healthcare it you know if we can get healthy educated kids everywhere in the world the entire will be a much better place I do want
00:47:52to get too political but going back in here right we are but lets you touch education and healthcare it's you're basically both Peter and politics but I'm just curious back to eight you growing up do you think that was actually more focus on being educated back then than
00:48:13there is now no I don't in nineteen eighty one president Reagan crated up a task force to analyze this state of American education can't think about how long ago that was this task force came out with a pretty damning report pretty famous phrase that came out of that
00:48:38that said that if the state of American education today had been imposed on the United States by a foreign power we would have considered it an act of war that maybe has some resonance with what foreign powers are doing in our election system United States today but just
00:48:59think about that this was this was the last year that I was going up in being educated and there there was we understand the United States implemented public education warily we understood the impact of education and how important it was he understands the importance we understand what our
00:49:20priorities should be in this country we just do a remarkably a job of putting our money where our priorities are or ought to be and putting our resources behind behind what are what are parties ought to be and the result of that is tragic in my opinion by
00:49:43him of course of course but it's not too far from the truth you know I was just talking to them some parents from a school where we won our oldest to go to next year and the it's an alternative school so they don't have standard curriculum and they
00:50:00do a lot of cool things but one thing they said ninety percent of kids will end up getting tutored after school because at the end of the school they'll still need to pass standardized test in order to get to the next level which ever is middle school something
00:50:14that and until kids graduating do really well after the school but that's because parents are able to send them to the school and pay for a tutoring and that we still have a lot of work to do you wear a society as a whole can actually in progress
00:50:30together at this really high level and hopefully this is where technology can really come in and level the playing field your arm look it's a bit of a car killed from your parenting but my hope is that it you know there will always be it'll always be true
00:50:52that that wealthy people have more resources to put against the education of their children and poor people and am dates because I have those resources and they will put them there but but just take that one example that that you can hire a private tutor three four or
00:51:11you can have you can take classes for us eighty that our city that might be very expensive thousands of dollars but if you can create online tool that that will compare can't equally or even better than a human tutor that's way cheaper way cheaper like what why isn't
00:51:33it isn't that great is not an example of technology being a great leveler I don't know the will ever achieve on complete equality but if we can if we can our goal should be as much quality of future outcomes for children as possible without without you know without
00:51:55doing police state kind of things which I think is wrong people I will spend their money how they want then %HESITATION yeah I just want to make it harder for people to figure out ways to spend money so that the rich kids get a leg up over that
00:52:11poor kids wouldn't it be great if it really was arm about you know to to ray's arm Martin Luther king the content of their abilities as opposed to the arm the content of their wallets it would be for a lot of people but you know before we have
00:52:37to go let's just finishing them maybe brighter and less political note yeah this is something I really wanted to know more about you at some point you said your parents took you and your siblings overseas and to travel and at some point you took your kids I believe
00:52:53it was to Spain Corriere yeah can you tell us about that experience you know what you learn how you kids enjoy this and I can with what was the purpose and when they get out of it well yeah I lived in in the United Kingdom for a year
00:53:14when I was eleven years old and it was a transformative year for me I %HESITATION well I can tell when what we you know as you get older it's harder and harder to really if you think back to me even when you're in your twenties and thirties and
00:53:32so in your forties and fifties and you try to think back of what it was like being eleven year old Chandor toward your kid or actually even what happened to you during those times it's really difficult like trying to think back and think of the sequence of things
00:53:46that happened when you were twelve years old and take a more you know more than a few days unless something really stirred up something spectacular happened %HESITATION it it's hard to remember it and you know when I was ten to love and I can tell you hardly anything
00:54:03that happened there and when I was thirteen and fourteen I can tell you hardly anything I really like that you know if I could dredge up some memories but behind that year I could talk to for hours about stuff we did that year even today it stands out
00:54:18in my mind in bold in ways that it's hard to describe and I wanted that my kids to have that kind of experience as well and and that's why when I finally got a chance to do it a little later that night that I would have hoped arm
00:54:34kids are a little older than I would have hoped but it was in the right range I think I took it and even though it's actually a pretty complex big thing to extract herself for even a year and live overseas and make it all happen and get your
00:54:49kids in school and figure out how you're going to live and all that stuff and you know just getting all the the Craddick paperwork done that you need to get done to make it happen we both I think massively succeeded and ran into complications that we didn't expect
00:55:09and like like in every case you know one of my children had a really hard time staying never had and didn't want to go he's not the most flexible child in the world and he he sort he still says he hated it was terrible it was a terrible
00:55:23year although increasingly he's older now increasingly he's appreciates experience you got there and is leveraging them in and get likes it still is a kind of a painful year for him and when that you when your kid isn't happy it's hard to be happy as parents although we
00:55:38were I mean everyone sort of had incredible experiences but but that was a complete complication I just didn't expect didn't think that was going to happen but did how did you help him to stick with it for a year years a long time especially for kids all my
00:55:53gosh it was hard it was hard tried and I tried I tried everything and I don't know that anything ever worked on we %HESITATION we you know sometimes we were very hard on him and just said this is this is your life is your family come along with
00:56:14that sometimes we %HESITATION we allow him would put him in control we we I took him over there I thought this was actually gonna make a bigger difference than it did I took him over there well he was saying I don't want to go I'm not going I'm
00:56:28not I am not going to stay with you I'm staying here you know right he he he was young right use ten year old kid arm and and and %HESITATION maybe nine to take yeah maybe was nine the time anyway I to come over there and and allowed
00:56:45him to actually choose the house that you know we look at a bunch has allowed him to choose the house so he put it we put in as much control you know you you can I have no control over almost anything in their lives and so the more
00:56:58control you can give them the stronger and more power to the shields we tried to give him more control over his life we let him plan a vacation while we're over there we we tried to give him control and that helped but you know it wasn't it wasn't
00:57:14perfect do they go to an international school well there or was it really is just a normal Spanish school no we put them in an international school in there's a lot lot to be said about that pros and cons but it doing doing that if you do a
00:57:32Martian a language that your kids don't speak at the time and you're only there for one school year the penny and let your kid is truly exceptional it's basically a lost year academically you have to prepare to deal with that make up for it you might have to
00:57:48repeat the whole year when you go home and that's again that's another reason for a kid to work for bell massively and and to have a hard time and maybe not such a good time so %HESITATION parents do that and it sometimes works out and sometimes it doesn't
00:58:01matter how much we decided not to take on that sort of risk especially complicated where we stayed in Barcelona because because the kids there speak along not not yeah jungle and so if you want you can learn Spanish instead of Capitoline or or the you know you want
00:58:20you don't want to that email to them the situation when they have to do both in your listing one year and that's a that's a that's a challenge the girls are yeah it's it's too much for can that work so I don't we don't get to have done
00:58:34that but they stayed for two three four years so if you want to do it again would you go for two or three years it just wasn't feasible at the time I was doing this I was right in the middle sounding imagine K. twelve and was already in
00:58:47the challenge so at you know the best way but however is the best way to do this is to plan on staying two years there's an old saying I like to sing smile saying my saying is that no maybe I heard from someone I can't remember which is
00:59:05that %HESITATION if you go for one year after one year the parents want to stay in the kids all want to go home if you stay for two years the parents want to go home the kids want to stay beautiful yeah it's a great I mean I I
00:59:22it's a great experience yeah and not a lot of people do it especially well I mean it's it's expensive challenging and certain schools all the time and that I think yeah if you can do it that's definitely something was he went well what do you think was the
00:59:36right each to take your kids and you want them to be old enough to %HESITATION remember and appreciate it and young and young enough not to feel like you're completely destroying their lives so that sort of late elementary school early middle school is the optimal three kids are
00:59:57taught me a multiple kids so you know sort of fifth grade through seventh or eighth grade is okay high schools really hard many parents do it you can do it but it's hard like if appearance parenting is already hard so you kind of get used to doing hard
01:00:15things after awhile well Jeff thank you much for being a podcast I've learned a ton and I hope our listeners did too before we go is there anything that you'd like to reiterate that in case young people forget that one thing that they should really remember I'll just
01:00:31reiterate that the lesson that I think is most fundamental that I think all parents know but sometimes it impossible into easy to forget which is about your kids about them and not you and try to understand when you're putting your own cares and needs in front of your
01:01:01kids in ways that probably and not their best interest it's all worth it that's great to hear alright well thank you for being on the podcast and %HESITATION if listeners want to help with the way I see it and take track or something like that is their place
01:01:25they should go to that they should feel free to reach out to me Jackie on satellite company tobacco sounds good thank you very much good talking to you good catching up okay there just before you go I've got one favor to ask if you like this episode of
01:01:47the red that show please grab a link to the episode intended to three of your friends email tweet text whatever just let him know that was fun to listen to and you thing did get some value out of it and of course if you want to send me
01:01:58some private feedback feel free to email editor at rad dad show dot com and I'll be have to chat with you till next time

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