Full Transcript for Episode 4: Starting from Strength

agency on the model of the trade-based model of recovery, 27 00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:43,440 which is a great program. It's innovative. It's creative. And it's bringing a fresh breath of 28 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:51,280 life to the recovery services genre, I guess you could say, in our area. So with that being said, 29 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:57,600 I want to jump into your history. So can you start by sharing the vision behind the Center 30 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,760 for Trade-Based Transformation? What inspired you to establish it? Maybe give a little bit 31 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:10,080 of your history as well, Jay. Yeah, man, for sure. I grew up in East Tennessee and had a pretty good 32 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:17,120 upbringing in all through school and high school. I never experimented with drugs at the time that 33 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:24,480 I grew up in that era and in that region. It just wasn't that prominent, kind of like mid-late 80s, 34 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:32,000 early 90s. Mostly it was just like pot and alcohol. But anyway, I was the drug prevention program, 35 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,680 kind of got through to him. It scared me to not use drugs, at least while I was in school, 36 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:42,640 but when I graduated and moved away, I forgot everything that I'd been told about. So in 1996, 37 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:47,760 I took two pills, two Xanax, for the first time ever. And it was like the gates of heaven opened 38 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:52,320 up for me because I'd always wanted to be accepted and liked by others, always put a lot of pressure 39 00:03:52,320 --> 00:04:04,240 on myself. And so that experience really opened up a space within me that was deceptive because 40 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:11,280 while I felt relaxed and accepted, what came on the heels of that was just more anxiety, 41 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:17,840 more exclusion, more stigma, more shame. And so, you know, Chris, that started a 17-year path of 42 00:04:17,840 --> 00:04:23,360 active addiction where I'd be arrested 18 times, overdosed four times, been raided by the police 43 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:28,480 twice, and both times were by the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. And ultimately, man, 44 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:33,440 I wound up in a homeless shelter in late 2012, and I got kicked out of the homeless shelter because 45 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:40,160 I snuck in crystal meth. And so being at the bottom of the barrel, so to speak, just before 46 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:45,120 the next step, which would be death, I decided to get help. And I showed up to the front doors 47 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:51,360 of a treatment center in central Kentucky in October 2013, and I've been on the recovery path 48 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:56,320 ever since. All right, so for this portion of things, we would like to just send a huge thank 49 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:01,760 you to our amazing sponsors and donors for making this year's silent auction for our holiday toys 50 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:07,360 for kids in Western New York a success. Frank O's Pizza, huge shout out to you guys there in your 51 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:13,040 Kenmore Ave location for donating our delicious pizza that will surely make this event special 52 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,600 to the Buffalo Bills and Buffalo Sabres. Your signed number, Abelia, is a highlight of our 53 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:24,080 auction, and we're so grateful for your generosity and support to Colvin Cleaners, Anderson's Custard, 54 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:29,920 Leaf Life, Wegmans and Dash's Market, your contributions ensure we can bring joy to the 55 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:35,120 children of Western New York this holiday season. For Public Auto Connect, you've dealt with the 56 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:40,000 rest, now deal with the best. For all your gently used car needs, visit them on Abba Road in Buffalo, 57 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:45,760 New York. To Eric White and Big Indian Drift Pit and the ERW construction, thank you for your 58 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:51,440 generous donations and the incredible work you do in the community. You continue to inspire us all. 59 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:56,800 So again, from Creative Restorations INC, we're hoping community come together. We just like to 60 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:03,120 thank all of our local sponsors, all of our local community members for their donations, 61 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:09,360 and for their support during our crucial initiatives. Thank you so much, and I look forward to all of 62 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:15,040 your support moving forward. Oh man, that's excellent. I want to give you some congratulations, 63 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:23,040 some props on that journey that you took, and I took, honestly. I know it shows a lot of resilience, 64 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,200 it shows a lot of grit, it shows a lot of determination, and those are some of the 65 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:32,160 characteristics that I'm sure you're going to speak about, just to name a few, in the creation of the 66 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:38,080 Center for Trade-Based Transformation. So the fact that you're actually modeling the behaviors or 67 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:43,680 characteristics that you hope to enlighten your participants with, it really shows that 68 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,640 you can empathize with the individuals that are going through your program. 69 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:53,200 I mean, that's it. I appreciate you saying that, Chris, and you highlight on that empathy, man. 70 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,760 And so that's kind of what led me to notice something really significant. You know, I was 71 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:03,360 in active, I was in the residential treatment program for one year, and so I stayed there in 72 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:08,720 that facility. And man, quite honestly, I felt like a monster when I checked in to treat, 73 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:13,200 like a nuisance to

society, and I felt the very best thing I could do was just get out of other 74 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:19,280 people's way. And there were 72 other guys that felt just like I did and had a criminal rap sheet 75 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:24,640 or background, much like mine, probably even more vast and extensive than mine. But what I noticed, 76 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,560 Chris, was like a lot of great good was being accomplished there. There were some really 77 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:34,320 stellar individuals that were really putting other people first and serving others and convincing 78 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:39,200 other people to not walk out of treatment. They were creating these study groups and they were 79 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:45,120 helping each other advance their education. And several of my friends or clients at the time 80 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:50,080 went on to, you know, advance their education and become leaders in the community. And so 81 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:57,680 I never forgot that. And so in 2019, I had the opportunity to get my PhD to begin a doctoral 82 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:04,080 degree program. And I don't come from an academic family. My grandfather was a coal miner and my 83 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:10,400 dad was a coal truck driver. So it was a big project, a big mission, you could say, but 84 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:17,920 determination that I used, it just kind of reflects those core traits that people 85 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:23,920 in substance use disorder often have. And so when I began my research, I was told by an advisor, 86 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,760 pick a topic that you love to research every morning you wake up, you can't wait to hit the 87 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:34,080 ground running to study. So coming back to this question, and it was this, when we talk about 88 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:41,440 recovery, is the goal to completely 100% change someone from the inside out top to bottom left 89 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:47,520 to right? Or are there some good things that we can pull forward and build upon? And so that was 90 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:53,120 my position. That became my hypothesis that people with substance use disorder, people 91 00:08:53,120 --> 00:09:00,560 in active addiction possess highly effective leadership traits. And so I started that research 92 00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:06,080 and it carried out over a three and a half year period and what was discovered. And I had other 93 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:14,400 researchers verify, validate and confirm the way that the data was being analyzed and coded. And 94 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:21,200 the findings revealed that indeed, people with substance use disorder possess these highly 95 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:26,560 effective leadership traits. And so once that was done, I knew that something more had to be done. 96 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:30,960 I knew that wasn't the end of the road because I knew what was missing, at least from my lived 97 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:36,720 experience in addiction and in that, you know, the whole demographic and that phenomenon. And so I 98 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:44,080 began to piece together some of the core components of a psychosocial modality, put it into the hands 99 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:50,800 of people making it accessible. So I combined that research with, you know, other content areas 100 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,760 on leadership development, entrepreneurial opportunities because quite honestly, Chris, 101 00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:00,080 many of us, an act of addiction had to be entrepreneurs. We were forced to be entrepreneurs 102 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:06,000 and through that, yeah, through that experience, we have cultivated some dynamic entrepreneurial 103 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:11,680 skills. I remember most days I'd wake up with no money in my pocket, but I still wanted to get high. 104 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:16,960 So I'd find a way, you know, I go to the junkyard and sell some scrap metal. I'd go to Walmart and 105 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:22,240 return a TV that I never purchased to get the money back. I owned a pressure washing company for 106 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:30,400 about two weeks. And I began to construct the trait based model recovery, which is an, it's, it's not 107 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:36,960 a traditional approach. It's an evidence based approach. It's a model of empowerment that highlights 108 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:43,040 and builds upon those leadership traits that people in addiction often have. And I'll say this and, 109 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:49,760 you know, we can continue with the next question, but those leadership traits, Chris, are resilience, 110 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:57,440 tenacity, determination, empathy, appreciation, being motivational, self-awareness, emotional 111 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:06,800 intelligence, authenticity and creativity. All 10 of those traits are existent and often robust in 112 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:11,280 the lives of people in active addiction. They've just been misconstrued. People have not been able 113 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:16,880 to look past the behavior to the undercurrent underneath the theme, the foundational traits 114 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:21,760 that allow us to influence others. We've influenced others in active addiction. And now 115 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:26,080 we can learn how to use those skills, use those traits in a positive fashion, moving forward in 116 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:34,320 recovery. Absolutely. And one of the things that really, really like solidified this model of, 117 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:41,600 of programming, right, was the, the, the perseveration on the character defects that you commonly see 118 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:49,680 that they mentioned in the 12 step programs, right? Those having to recognize what your defects 119 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:57,200 of characters are and having to like start from that place of negativity almost seem

counterproductive. 120 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:02,480 So the fact that you're taking the flip side of that approach and saying, hey, you know what, 121 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:07,120 we all know what we did in our active addiction. We all know the bad things about ourselves, 122 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:15,040 but how is that going to help us transform our lives into what we want by perseverating on that 123 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:22,080 negative? So the fact that you touched on those things and it really keyed home to me, it really, 124 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:28,400 it was an eye-opening experience and to hear your story, to hear the, the, the, how everything came 125 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:35,600 to be. It really was a great training. It really is a great program. And I'm really, really psyched 126 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:40,560 about our interaction and our engagement with the program and getting it up and running here in New 127 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:48,000 York state because we do definitely need more creative approaches, more, just again, go back 128 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:53,760 to the creativity. We need that approach. We, we feel like, I feel like too many times the old way 129 00:12:53,760 --> 00:13:00,400 of doing things is really holding individuals back on their change process. So yeah, much kudos, 130 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,880 much kudos for that. I appreciate that, man. And I think a lot of us know that have that 131 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:10,240 lived experience of addiction. Like most of the time, by the time we turn to people for healing 132 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:16,480 and we turn to others for help, we so devalue ourselves. We just, it's almost impossible to 133 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:22,800 imagine a positive outcome when we're starting from such a negative position. And also, you know, 134 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,800 the traditional approach which highlights those defects of character. Well, one of the things 135 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:32,880 that we've learned as a society, or at least as people that have this lived experience is that 136 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:40,880 whenever we focus or whenever we call anything, any part of ourself as defective, what we process 137 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:45,040 internally is that there's entire parts of ourselves that are completely unacceptable. 138 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:51,440 And so then it initiates this internal war that will never win. We want to annihilate or completely 139 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:59,360 just cut away these parts of us that are maybe undesirable, right? But it works. It's a law of 140 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:04,240 the universe that whatever we focus on, we give energy to. And so I believe there's a better 141 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:11,680 way to approach this entire epidemic and individually and collectively, it's by considering the whole 142 00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:17,600 person. Don't just focus on the negative decisions or behaviors, because when you do that,

you leave 143 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:23,920 entire parts of yourself undeveloped, untapped, and underexplored. And so this approach, the 144 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:28,320 strength-based approach, you know, we rolled it out, Chris, for the first time last year. 145 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:34,240 And we actually rolled it out at the same treatment center I showed up to in 2013 with nothing but 146 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:41,920 a trash bag of clothes and not an ounce of self-respect, dignity, nothing. And it was almost 147 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:47,280 10 years to the date, just shy of a few days that I showed up 10 years later. But this time, 148 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:51,440 I had more than a trash bag. I had a team of mental health professionals ready to launch and 149 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:59,280 deploy life-saving and life-transforming modality that delivers dignity, self-respect, hope, and 150 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:06,000 purpose for life, not only the recovery journey for life. And, you know, man, we kicked it off. And 151 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:12,240 since then, we've partnered with 18 organizations across five states in just over a year. And 152 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:17,840 we're just, I'm blown away, you know. This is something, this is like a, it's a living modality. 153 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:22,960 It's like lightning in a bottle because I think that now, I think several of us have known this, 154 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:28,080 there's something unique, you know, about us, addiction. And now we have language to put to 155 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:34,560 that. And that language is empowering because science, it's not just psychological hocus pocus, 156 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:41,920 it's actual science that says these people have tremendous leadership traits currently. 157 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:47,040 They're just being misconstrued and misused. But the same stuff that got us into trouble can 158 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:52,640 become the very same stuff to lead us out of it. Absolutely. And you mentioned that research too, 159 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:57,600 that background that you have that includes that extensive research for, you know, that addiction 160 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:02,320 recovery and leadership development that you were mentioning. How do those disciplines influence 161 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:07,280 the way you design programs? How you implement the strategies at the center and your overall 162 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:14,320 approach? How does that background help you? Yeah, well, I mean, with the leadership background, 163 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:20,560 you know, I teach leadership now at the university. I'm on faculty and so that leadership for the 164 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:26,960 trait, when it comes to the trait based model is a core component of what the trait based model 165 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:33,760 achieves. And so it activates these leadership principles and approaches. It's taken actually 166 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:39,040 to get very specific in the field of leadership. It's not that people in substance use disorder 167 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:44,960 just simply are good leaders, but they are transformational leaders, a specific type of 168 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:50,560 leader that's authentic and looks to serve others. But it's this transformational leadership that then, 169 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,880 as it pertains to the curriculum and the content of the trait based model recovery, 170 00:16:54,880 --> 00:17:02,000 we've got lessons designed and provided in there that help people who are in addiction 171 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:09,040 treatment learn to harness their traits and begin to use them in a positive and an effective 172 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:14,720 approach moving forward. And so a lot of those traits, Chris, also they've been just misused. 173 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:21,040 Let's take empathy, right? Empathy is one leadership trait. When it comes to organizations seeking 174 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:26,720 leaders to lead the organization, the literature says that empathy is the number one trait. Well, 175 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,600 empathy, of course, I know you know this is the ability to connect to someone else in a very 176 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,920 deep emotional and psychological level. And in addiction, we're able to do that. It's different 177 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,760 from sympathy. Sympathy is just feeling sorry for someone, but empathy is actually entering into 178 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:44,960 the difficulty with them. And so we are able to do that in active addiction. We can walk into a room 179 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,960 and read the room, so to speak. We know who's cool. We know who we can talk to maybe about getting 180 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:54,080 high. But what happens, we've got empathy, but because addiction has been introduced, it's hijacked 181 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:58,240 our brains and it's hijacked our personality traits and our character. So what ends up happening, 182 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:04,400 that empathy, we learn to use that and to twist that and objectify the other person and manipulate 183 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:10,560 them to get what we want. So it's often observed, seen as and referred to as manipulation. And yeah, 184 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:16,400 that's there. But what most people have missed up to this point is that without that empathy, 185 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:21,520 as a bedrock or a foundation, then the manipulation would not be possible. And so that understanding, 186 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:31,840 that understanding informs us on how we build out a life saving or transformative curriculum 187 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:37,280 to give people a framework. And it's even more specifically than that, not only a framework 188 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:42,800 for moving forward, but it's how we achieve balance, internal centeredness, connection. 189 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:49,280 You know,

we go to the extremes, Chris. That's what we do. We just go all out. And I've even done that 190 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:54,800 in recovery and even creating the trait based model recovery. Like I was using my grit and my 191 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:59,520 resilience, determination, and tenacity to do something, to build something very good that 192 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:05,120 was going to help a lot of people. But I was as close to a relapse then as anytime I've ever 193 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:11,600 been in my life because I was out of balance. I neglected rest. I had neglected spending time 194 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:16,720 with family. And so through that experience, I learned to set up some guardrails, you can say, 195 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:22,960 to help me achieve this balance. And so that self awareness, the trait of self awareness is a key 196 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:29,840 trait in the trait based model. And it helps us to kind of center ourselves to pull us back into 197 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:35,200 the present moment because we typically can fall back into these thought patterns, obsessing about 198 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,120 the past, which fills us with shame or obsessing about the future, which fills us with fear and 199 00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:44,640 dread. But what trait based achieves is help clients. We help clients to connect to the present 200 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:49,760 moment, the right here, right now, because quite honestly, that's all we'll ever have. And so that 201 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:55,280 brings about a tremendous sense of strength because now we're not in the extremes, we're in the center. 202 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:03,120 That's how that knowledge and that research has informed us to build out the trait based curriculum. 203 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:10,480 That's excellent. And I like the way that it includes everyone. It doesn't matter who you are, 204 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:16,480 where you're from, what your race creed religion is, it doesn't matter. This program resonates with 205 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:23,200 various races, genders, lifestyles, geographical areas. So you created a program that really, 206 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:30,640 really meets an individual where they are, shows them that, hey, even though you have been exhibiting 207 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:36,480 these negative characteristics in your addiction, it all comes from a space of positivity, though, 208 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:42,960 if you really take the time to look at it and identify it. And that's so uplifting. That's 209 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:50,960 very, very powerful as it relates to messaging. And honestly, me going through my addiction 210 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:57,840 issues, I've been to numerous treatment centers, numerous self-help meetings. And honestly, I 211 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:03,360 wish this was around when I was going through my issues. I feel like I probably would have reached 212 00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:10,560 this point where I'm at a lot quicker, you know. Yeah. Well, you used it, Chris. Like, 213 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:16,480 you used trait based before trait based was a thing. You intuitively knew there was something 214 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:22,960 more going on than what the system was telling you, so to speak. Absolutely. More than a label, 215 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:28,480 more than a disorder, more than a disease. And you knew it. And so this is exactly 216 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,720 what trait based achieve. And you mentioned something very important about trait based. 217 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:39,360 We are a universal model open to people of all faiths, all backgrounds, or no faith. It doesn't 218 00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:47,520 matter because we want to remove as many hurdles as possible. And so it's a trauma informed modality. 219 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:54,400 And man, I'm telling you, people get it all the way from New York to New Mexico to Kentucky to 220 00:21:54,400 --> 00:22:00,080 Virginia. People get it, which blows my mind and fills my heart with tremendous joy and gratitude. 221 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:07,120 Yeah, no. And I honestly, like so when I reached out to you on LinkedIn and I was following some of, 222 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:13,040 you know, your post on LinkedIn and I'm seeing the progress I'm reading about the program and I'm 223 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:20,240 like, oh, OMG, you know, I had a previous employer and we had this conversation previous, but my 224 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:25,440 figures for the listeners, I give them a little bit of history at a previous employer, myself and 225 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:31,280 my co-founder here at Creative Restorations. We created a program that was specifically focused 226 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:37,920 for the justice involved individual that was currently incarcerated, receiving medications for 227 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:45,520 opioid use disorder. And the curriculum that we created was so close to your program that it was 228 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:51,520 like, man, it was meant to be in my mind to come across your information, to come across the stuff 229 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:57,680 that you're putting out there about trait based, like it was almost serendipitous, you know, in 230 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:04,960 nature. So honestly, I can't tell you how just from my experience, working with individuals that 231 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:09,840 are justice involved in a lot, a lot of times just from my own experience, that's like one of, 232 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:14,640 for some, it could be that rock bottom moment, right? No support away from your family, 233 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:19,600 you're left to focus on all of your issues, all your problems, there's nowhere to run, right? 234 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:27,040 So getting that response from the guys and gals that we helped, you know, provide these services to 235 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:33,360 in almost a similar way, I

could see how transformative this program would be. That's why I was so 236 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:39,200 happy to get myself, get our staff trained in this program, because we are eagerly looking forward 237 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:45,360 to providing this service. So again, I want to say thank you again for doing this. But one of the 238 00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:49,840 things that I really want to know, we talked about a little bit about the program and how it works and 239 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:55,440 everything. So far, you mentioned that you're in a few, quite a few different states and that things 240 00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:01,040 have kind of taken off as far as, you know, other agencies reaching out to you wanting to have this 241 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:06,880 program at their agency. What are some of the impactful benefits, you know, your clients have 242 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,760 experienced after working with you and the Center for Trant based or trait based transformation, 243 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:16,560 and what have been the response from the agencies that you provide the services at? 244 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:25,680 So we, like you mentioned, 18 partnerships, 18 different organizations, five states, 245 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:33,200 and at all levels of care. So it's residential treatment, it is ILP, it's outpatient, it's 246 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:39,040 sober living communities, and even just the craziest thing that the Albuquerque, New Mexico 247 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,600 district attorney's office called me last summer. And quite honestly, when they called me Chris, 248 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:54,160 it kind of freaked me out because you know, they said, Dr. Rup, what we're, what we're doing out 249 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,320 here through the pre trial diversion program in Albuquerque, nothing is working. Like we're, 250 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:03,040 we're losing people left and right. And we don't know what to do. And so would you mind coming 251 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,360 out here and talking to us about trait based models. So we went out there, Amanda and I, and 252 00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:12,800 we signed an agreement, you know, just one year so that people in their pre trial diversion program, 253 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,240 you know, they've, they've, they're living their own life. They're not locked up in a facility. 254 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:21,440 They've got jobs and families and, and they're able to because trait based has that digital 255 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,360 component. It's fully accessible online. They're able to complete those lessons on their own time. 256 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,680 And so we've, we, we just completed that first year in Albuquerque, the DA's office actually 257 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:36,480 renewed the contract and they committed to send through three times as many people over the 258 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:41,760 upcoming year because it's been so effective. And what

people are saying in Albuquerque is that 259 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,920 it's a, it's a game changer. And they're not just saying in Albuquerque, they're saying it everywhere 260 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:51,680 that, that, that these men and women are now able to for maybe the first time in their lives, 261 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:57,440 see that they have value. And it's not just psychological hocus pocus. Again, it's, it's 262 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:03,920 based and, and that understanding is really transforming how they view themselves, how 263 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:11,120 they view their communities and their families. And it heightens or increases and delimits themselves 264 00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:16,640 to realize that they can achieve, you know, what they set their mind to, that they can actually 265 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:23,280 overcome challenges by using the strength found within. And so we've also got some drug courts 266 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:29,040 here in Kentucky, actually in Carl's bad in New Mexico, they're taking trait based into the jails. 267 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:36,800 And then I've always known that trait based would be cross cutting and effective for prevention 268 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:42,800 efforts, right? Because, you know, dare, the, the dare program worked for me because it scared 269 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:47,520 the crap out of me, you know, I thought my brain would fry in a skillet if I ever smoked marijuana 270 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:53,280 or something like that. So Chris, when I first experimented in my brain didn't fry, I was like, 271 00:26:53,280 --> 00:27:01,040 oh, I'm the exception to the rule. And so with the trait based prevention model, we actually 272 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,960 were approached by a couple of superintendents here in Kentucky and they asked us that we have 273 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:11,360 nothing. We know about trait based, heard you present on it. We'd like you to formulate a program 274 00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:16,960 to put in our schools. And so we did that, we launched it this October and it's going really, 275 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,760 really well. And what the trait based model prevention achieves is we don't try to scare 276 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,080 children. We don't try to scare students. Of course, drugs are terrible. They can be fatal. 277 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:32,960 We all know that. But we go to a deeper space, to a deeper place and we help students realize 278 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:39,920 that the traits that they have can actually lead them and guide them. And it takes the 279 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:45,600 drug prevention message away from an external decision making process, which would be like, 280 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:50,000 if I do this, I'm going to look like this, or if I do this, I'll get arrested. I do that. 281 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:56,400 We anchor it to an inner reality, to an internal identity. It plays value within the lives of 282 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:01,760 students. And so they are able that now they have a reason to say no. They have a reason to say no 283 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:07,280 because they realize that they're empathetic and resilient leaders. And so it helps students better 284 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:12,320 navigate difficult emotions, build healthy relationships, communicate effectively, and 285 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:19,440 discover their purpose in life. So yeah, we've got the recovery model in, of course, New York, 286 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:24,160 there in Buffalo. I mean, we're still thrilled about that. Obviously, New Mexico, like I mentioned, 287 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:33,200 Virginia, and Kentucky, and soon to be Tennessee. And so all levels of care from recovery efforts 288 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:40,080 primarily, and then also just introducing the prevention effort. And yeah, it's really connecting. 289 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:46,080 It's really connecting with folks, students, and people in recovery all together. And it's just a 290 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,960 really magnificent sight and thing to behold and watch unfold. 291 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:58,080 I agree. And one of the cool things about the program too is it can be, and I like if you could 292 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:04,160 speak more about this aspect of things too, that so that the program can be run by peers, people 293 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:10,560 with lived experience and recovery, and it can be run by clinical staff. And that's like, to me, is, 294 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:18,880 is a game changer because peers have a different way of communicating with those that they're working 295 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:24,960 with in recovery as compared to, say, a clinician, right? So there's that little bit more of a deeper 296 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,840 connection because you're coming from a level playing field, whereas, you know, the counselor-client 297 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,480 relationship, regardless of how it's, you know, how much therapeutic alliance you build up with 298 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:39,440 the clinician, there always seems to be a little bit of a hierarchy there as per design, you know? 299 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:45,760 Yeah. So, like, yeah, let's like, talk about that. How ingenious is that? So that way you can 300 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:51,120 have this program run by clinical staff, non-clinical staff, like talk about that a little bit. 301 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:57,200 So we've got, within the trait-based model recovery, we have an assessment, and it's a valid 302 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:04,240 instrument, right? So getting the assessment to measure what it's supposed to measure was a very 303 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:10,560 rigorous process scientifically. We had to do a survey of over like close to 400 people to 304 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:16,080 establish that we were actually measuring empathy, measuring resilience, measuring determination, 305 00:30:16,080 -->

00:30:22,400 and in addition to that, we've created the heroes of the recovery archetype characters. And so what 306 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:29,440 these archetypes are, there's the ruler, there's the champion, the lover, and the enchanter. These 307 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:35,760 are all characters that represent characteristics within us. And so that helps us in recovery. 308 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:41,440 When we know that we're the enchanter, then we know that we should be mindful of the promises 309 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:46,480 we make to other people, because an enchanter, a shadow enchanter, so to speak, using their traits 310 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:53,520 negatively will make commitments that they can't keep, or they'll help find the $20 they stole from 311 00:30:53,520 --> 00:31:00,160 you, for example. And so what these archetypes do, they inform us, they guide us, and they help us 312 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:07,840 establish a level of commitment and recognition, clinically speaking. And the results of the 313 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,960 archetypes come in whenever a client takes it, and the top archetype, let's just say it's the 314 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,920 enchanter and the bottom archetype out of all four, let's say it's the lover. If there's more than 315 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:24,080 18-point differential, then that's a sign that extra interventions are needed clinically. And 316 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:29,440 then when there's less than 18, it shows that somebody is balanced. And so that's a clinical 317 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:35,680 aspect that really trait-based offers to that therapeutic setting. But in terms of the peer 318 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:42,880 support, I would say across all of our locations, I would say it's probably about 60% peer support 319 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:49,040 led, 40% clinician led. And a lot of our organizations, it's a mixture, they have both. 320 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:55,840 But from a peer support level, man, it's incredibly exciting because what I'm learning is when these 321 00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:01,760 peer support facilitators, they're leading other people through this modality, they're able to 322 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:06,960 even highlight and identify things that I didn't even consider right out of the gate. And so it's 323 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:13,280 like this creative collaboration. When someone is in recovery and we certify them as a trait-based 324 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:18,480 facilitator, which we call them a start from strength ambassador, right? So now they've got 325 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:24,160 a certificate to help other people start from strength. What they are discovering, man, is like 326 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:31,760 how we can use this understanding to help us in all areas of life, not only how to stay sober for 327 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:37,520 another day, but how to start businesses, how to connect to the community, how to cultivate this 328 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:44,080 trait of creativity so that you can create a workshop for local youth in the community. So 329 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:51,600 there's just this peer support presence and impact that is really shaping what the model looks like 330 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:58,160 in real life. That's excellent. And I really, because that's what our agency is kind of, you 331 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:04,960 know, predicated on is providing services from that peer perspective and having another refreshing 332 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:10,720 type of program to be able to work with an individual with on an equal basis as a peer, 333 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:16,560 it's just an excellent thing, excellent, excellent, excellent, man. And I can't say enough about it. 334 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:26,560 The one thing that I would like to touch on too is with, okay, so nationally, and I know you probably 335 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,880 can only talk a little bit about this topic. I don't want to get you in any trouble or any of that 336 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:39,120 stuff too, you know, but nationally, we have this opioid settlement funds, right, that you see 337 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:44,800 across the United States, right? That's due to, you know, some pharmaceutical companies 338 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:52,480 over prescribing and flooding our communities with prescription painkillers, which led to, 339 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:57,760 you know, high addiction rates, which potentially led to overdoses, things of that nature. So they 340 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:03,920 have, you know, this, this tort litigation that secured all of this funding for, you know, different 341 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:09,200 states and it was broken down, the state gets this, the state gets that, etc., etc. So here in 342 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:16,080 New York, I'll just say this, what I'm seeing is a complete lack of creativity when it comes to 343 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:24,080 spending those funds, right? What I'm seeing is a lack of proactive implementation of new creative 344 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:30,560 programs or new innovative programs that are away from the norm, but are evidence-based because 345 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:38,720 with the crisis that, you know, Buffalo, New York has had in the last, wow, 24 months, if not longer, 346 00:34:38,720 --> 00:34:43,440 I feel like any option that's available to us, we should be at least considering, 347 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:50,240 you know, but the fact that the rollout of this, these funding, these funds are so slow or the 348 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:56,960 supplementation of existing budgets with these funds is a little bit, you know, mind-boggling 349 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:03,600 to me. So I guess to wrap up what I'm trying to say is, it's, are you seeing anything similar or 350 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:10,240 same in your works across the country with, you know, these opioid settlement funds? 351 00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:18,400 Yeah, I am. And I

want to share, I really respect as you started the show today, like talking about 352 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:25,440 the purpose of this podcast, of course, is not to bash any public organization. 353 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:26,000 Exactly. 354 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:34,160 I highly respect that. And I will share, honestly, you know, I serve on the Kentucky 355 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:41,280 Opioid Abatement Advisory Commission. It's a nine-member panel and I 100% affirm and echo 356 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:48,560 what you just shared. And so while we're overseeing the allocation of close to $860 million, 357 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:57,760 what I have seen take place is that a lot of this is going to these large organizations and 358 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,840 quite honestly, it's organizations that are associated with pharmaceutical companies, 359 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:07,680 typically. And to me blows my mind and look, I'll say this, I am all for anything that keeps 360 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:15,600 someone alive. Whenever I have no, you know, bias, I have no axe to grind against MAT, 361 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:22,960 obviously, it's I'm all for it. But just as an observer, what I've noticed is that it's quite 362 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:28,560 ironic that the same industry that created this epidemic, at least here in Kentucky, 363 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:35,840 now is the same industry that will be profiting from the recovery efforts in this area. And 364 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:44,000 so what we have done is basically feels like sometimes just kind of past the plate, so to 365 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:51,600 speak, we've collected money and then ended up giving it back to the industry that kind of got 366 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:57,280 us in this shape. And so that's what I advocate for there in Frankfurt, the state capital, Kentucky. 367 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:03,040 I've always said that we need grassroots organizations just like CRI in Buffalo, New York, 368 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:10,560 here in Kentucky, and we need to not only notice them and to honor them, but to equip them with 369 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:18,080 resources so that they can do some tremendous work that will make a tremendous amount of impact in 370 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:25,760 other people's lives. And so while I'm happy that we had the funding to allocate and to share, 371 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,320 and I know that people have been helped and you can never put a price on the life, you know. 372 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:38,720 I still have this position that I think we can do more. And actually, I think we can do a lot more 373 00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:45,680 to support organic, local, grassroots led organizations that just like you said are being 374 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:54,960 created and innovative. And I would turn up the gas one more level, so to speak, and say 375 00:37:54,960 --> 00:38:01,920 need to break open the closed loop for establishing someone as being evidence-based and just sharing 376 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:07,680 an experience from one of our meetings, like some of the members were opposed to pilot studies. 377 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:14,000 Well, that's the process. You got to have a starting point. And so for these big universities, 378 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:19,840 these great multinational organizations that already have the science and the data and these 379 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:24,080 peer reviewed studies, well, I mean, that's fine. That's great. But if you're going to turn around 380 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:30,880 and say, well, Jim and Joe down here in Taylor County, Kentucky, just because they don't have 381 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:38,000 all of that scientific backing at this point, if we don't allow them to collect that original data 382 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:43,520 to support that what they're doing is effective, then it's a closed system. And all we're doing 383 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:49,280 is just greasing the palms of people that have been spoon feeding us this stuff for decades. 384 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:56,960 And decades. Yeah. And I agree 110% in the current climate of what you spoke on there. 385 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:04,560 And in Kentucky is stamen's very, very similar here in New York state. And it's just sad to see, 386 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:10,080 because like you said, it creates that closed loop of services, right? Where it's only a monopoly of 387 00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:18,000 bigger entrenched agencies that can provide these services. And I like the fact that you did touch 388 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:24,800 on the pharmaceutical industry and how it seems like, because I'm with you, I support all methods 389 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:30,560 of recovery. I myself am a medical marijuana patient and I have done for 16 years, right? 390 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:38,640 So like that helped me stay clean and helped me work through my pain issues, work through my 391 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:46,240 anxiety issues, like it helps so much. But the stigma, it's still there. So my thought is 392 00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:55,360 why you're absolutely right. Why are we essentially passing that plate back to that same company that 393 00:39:55,360 --> 00:40:00,320 got us into this situation? It's almost like, okay, well, to appease the public, we're going to give 394 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:05,600 you this huge number of funds that we're going to give everyone. But we're going to recoup three 395 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:10,800 quarters of that just by, you know, providing this medication or that medication. Do you know what 396 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:19,440 I mean? It's tough. It is tough. And I think the only way out of that is to be, honestly, 397 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:25,680 to be vocal about it, to call things out as we speak. And so, you know, we can do that in a very 398 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:32,640 gracious manner. It doesn't have to be passive or contentious or, you know,

oppositional. It can 399 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:38,720 just be truthful, honest and grateful, being like, we can do so much better than this. And I still 400 00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:43,360 believe that we can. I do believe by like, through this podcast, through your services, through 401 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:49,840 agency, that just getting the word out, being an advocate for creativity and innovation and 402 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:56,000 evidence-based practices that can actually change the narrative on this. It's going to require work. 403 00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:02,640 It's going to require dedication, but it can and I do believe will be done. I agree. And just to 404 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:10,320 further hit on, you know, the transformative leadership qualities that some individuals 405 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:16,160 have in recovery, right? We're two living examples of that, bud. For your program, we're two individuals 406 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:22,560 that are proven your evidence-based program is correct, you know, like the fact that we've been, 407 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,560 you've been able to navigate your own life, your own challenges to get out there, be creative, 408 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:32,560 be proactive and create this program for anyone to participate in. Same thing with myself, 409 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:37,600 making it through my situation, my issues to be able to come out here, create a nonprofit for 410 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:42,240 our local community and offer a wide range of services. It doesn't matter the day or time, right? 411 00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:48,960 So that's just proving that individuals that do suffer from substance use disorder are some of 412 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,960 the most transformative leaders that you're probably going to run into sometimes. You just 413 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:57,920 got to give them that chance, give them that opportunity, allow them the tools for their 414 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:02,960 tool bag per se in order to, you know, fix their life back up the way they envision it. 415 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:04,400 So, yeah. 416 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:10,560 Exactly. And that's something, you know, I'll say this and just kind of what you shared there, 417 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:17,760 just reminding me of something, you know, if there's an 11th trait, it's the fact that people like 418 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:24,000 you, you and I, like who have been through addiction, or it is not just limited to chemical 419 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:30,960 addiction. Like there's other hardships in life. There's maladaptive disorders in life that we 420 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:38,160 actually, it allows us and empowers us to see life for what it truly is, because if I'm speaking 421 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:44,160 candidly and quite openly and honestly, we've already died. You can say that we've already 422 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:54,320 experienced a death and the life that we're living now is a life to

where the blinders 423 00:42:54,320 --> 00:43:01,600 come off, so to speak. And it cultivates and leads to this trait of courage, right? This, 424 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:10,880 it's wrapped up in determination, but it's this approach and this posture of being just a courageous 425 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:20,320 voice in the face of a closed system that most people would say, well, you know, things are 426 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:27,200 the way that they are. It is what it is, but there's a driving force within you, within me, 427 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:33,440 and millions of others that say, hey, no, no, this is not the way that it has to be. It's the way that 428 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:41,040 it is, but we see life as it is, and we know that on surface level, it's not what it's cracked up to 429 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:47,280 be, but because we've had our lived experiences, we know that we can keep pressing in, keep being 430 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:53,280 vocal, keep being courageous and determined, and we will see, because we've seen it in recovery, 431 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:59,200 we will see transformation take place, because not only do we agree or intellectually agree with 432 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:04,560 transformation that it's possible, we know it to be true because we've lived it and it lives within us. 433 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,920 That's a fact, and you couldn't have said it any better than that, Jay. Like, I appreciate this. 434 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:15,920 This has been a great interview, and I want to give you a little bit of time to, if you have any, 435 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:20,160 like, events that you have in your area that are coming up soon and you want to plug in, 436 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:25,440 let the listeners know what's going on, maybe you can, you know, speak on that. And also, 437 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:30,720 if an individual, someone listening, that they have interest in the trait-based 438 00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:34,880 model of recovery and they're wanting to know more about the Center for Trait-Based, 439 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:40,320 how do they get more information? What can they do? Let the listeners know how to go about it. 440 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:47,120 Well, I appreciate that, Chris. And, you know, we just, even today, we brought on another organization 441 00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:52,960 that provides treatment for pregnant mothers or single mothers. And so, as far as events go, 442 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:58,960 you know, it's just the accumulation of additional accounts and locations so that we can broaden 443 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:06,560 our impact and expand our reach. And so, if there's anyone that would be listening to this 444 00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:14,800 that wants to get involved or would like help for themselves, our website is startfromstrength.org. 445 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:22,800 That's our slogan, start from strength. And our website, of course, is www.startfromstrength.org. 446 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:32,160 And you can send me an email. My email is J.G. Roup. That's R-O-O-P. At startfromstrength.org. 447 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:38,560 And so, email me, reach out. And I'd love to have a conversation with you. And if this message, 448 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:44,240 this correspondence with Chris and I, if it resonates within you, it's because there's 449 00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:50,640 something reflective within that knows what we're talking about to be true. And so, if you're, 450 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:55,040 perhaps in a state of mind like I was before I entered treatment, you know, I almost, 451 00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:01,120 I wanted psychological help. I was in a methpsychosis before I went to treatment. I couldn't tell up 452 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:07,040 from down and left from right. And I didn't know my name hardly. But I ultimately would get my PhD 453 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:14,400 and develop a psychosocial modality that would change lives. And the very same thing, the very 454 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:21,040 same progression of going from despondency, destruction, death, and total devastation to 455 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:29,040 new life and to transformation is possible for anyone. Right? It's possible for anybody. And so, 456 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:35,280 as people go through trait-based, like I said earlier, we call them start from strength ambassadors 457 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:40,640 because they know, they know that there's strength within each and every one of us. You don't have 458 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:47,200 to go to Walmart or the dollar store to buy these traits. And in fact, if you wanted to, you couldn't. 459 00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:53,600 That's because they live deep within you. And so, you are your own resources, what I would say, 460 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:59,840 of course, other modalities and resources can be beneficial, but let's not ignore this dynamic 461 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:06,960 treasure of transformation that you have within you. And if you can connect and engage and link 462 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:12,000 into that, it can become a strong foundation for you for the rest of your life. 463 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:17,040 Yeah, no, and I can't agree more. And I appreciate you coming on the show, 464 00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:24,000 giving listeners a glimpse into a, I don't want to say new because you've been doing this for a 465 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:30,480 minute, Jay, but a newer, creative, innovative model of helping individuals just get back to 466 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:37,760 being them, right? Finding out what makes them tick, what makes them get excited about things in 467 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:43,600 life, finding themselves again, finding their value, finding their self-worth back, just having 468 00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:49,040 that ability to go through a program like this. I really think it's going to be, like you said, 469 00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:53,200 it's going to be

transformative for so many people. So thank you again for spreading that 470 00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:59,920 information, for coming on the show and giving this synopsis of what the program offers. And again, 471 00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:05,200 if there's any agencies out there that are looking for something different, something new, 472 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:10,800 something fresh, a breath of fresh air, if you're noticing that your groups and your programming 473 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:15,920 is a little bit dry or no one's responding or they're not showing up or they're not engaging, 474 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:21,520 you know what? You've tried it your way for quite some time or a certain way for quite some time, 475 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:26,480 rather, why not try a different approach, try a different way, try a different modality, right? 476 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:33,520 Maybe reach out to Jay, give Jay a call, give him an email, shout him out, let him know what you 477 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:39,760 think about the program. Ask for more information because I guarantee you, you'll notice that if 478 00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:46,400 you take the time to implement a program of this nature that you're going to see the response that 479 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:52,640 happens because it's all organic and it's so fresh, it's so creative. And this is what I feel 480 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:58,800 deep in my heart that a lot of the communities we live in, respectively, this is what we need. 481 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:07,280 We've been mired with negative press, the overdose death rates, all the bad news that you see on the 482 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:11,840 local media or national media about addiction, about the overdose rate, how many people we're 483 00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:20,240 losing annually in the United States over 100,000 a year due to overdose. That negativity that we've 484 00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:25,200 been mired in, it's about time we get that breath of fresh air and get that new programming, that 485 00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:32,320 new approach to just providing some hope, some strength. I appreciate it, man. I appreciate it. 486 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:38,960 So with that being said, for all our listeners today, I really do hope you enjoyed today's show. 487 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:43,440 Jay provided the information that you would need to reach out to him. Please don't hesitate. Like 488 00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:49,360 I said, we are going to be launching our trade-based model of recovery and trade-based model of 489 00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:57,520 prevention here in Buffalo, New York, come January. Our first point of emphasis with this program is 490 00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:02,720 going to be in our transitional housing program. So we're going to offer this there with individuals 491 00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:09,520 that could really utilize this programming in an after-hours type of approach on their time, 492 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:15,280 sort of the way we are going to envision running it. So I really enjoy this. I really enjoyed 493 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:20,400 the conversation and I hope to talk to you again soon, Jay. All right, Chris, look, thank you so 494 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:26,960 very much for the opportunity. We really, really respect, applaud and appreciate the work that 495 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:32,960 you're doing through CRI and that CRI is doing. And yeah, just thank you, man. Thank you. It's an 496 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:38,880 honor to serve alongside you. It's an honor to be introduced into New York State through your 497 00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:43,120 agency and organization. And we can't wait to get back up there, man, and hear a lot of these 498 00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:52,720 life-transforming stories of success and recovery. And so I'm excited about it. I prefer to not come 499 00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:57,920 back in January or February. I'll wait till the snow passes, maybe, but anyway, man, it's a true 500 00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:04,720 honor. You're a treasure and CRI is a treasure. And just thank you so, so very much. All right, 501 00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:10,320 thank you again, Jay. And for everyone out there from Creative Restorations, INC, Pulling Your Coal 502 00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:15,360 Podcast and the Center for Trait-Based Transformation, we're going to sign off for now. If you want to 503 00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:20,320 reach out to Creative Restorations, INC, for any type of services, whether it's care management, 504 00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:26,640 peer support, whether it's vocational linkage, linkage to educational programs, whatever the 505 00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:35,120 case may be, we're here to help provide those services to you. Reach out to us at 716-553-4886, 506 00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:45,200 or you can contact us via email at contactus at creativerestorationsinc.org. So from me to you, 507 00:51:45,200 --> 00:52:05,280 from Jay to you, we wish you guys the best, have a happy holiday, and we'll see you on the flip side.