Full Transcript for I Sold A Venture-Backed Startup Then Started Again, While Having a Young Family: Andy McGinley

disagree in criminology, which ended up to be nothing that I've really used. 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:28.639 Um went travelling for a year after that, and that was kind of like 2008-2009, and that's when there was like a peak recession, you know, like the financial kind of like crash happened. 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:34.879 Yeah, and my dad was he was about 30 years in commercial banking throughout that time and got made redundant. 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:44.639 So it was whilst I was travelling, he was made redundant, and there was no jobs in finance, so he kind of had to start a business, was the best way to use the skills and knowledge that he had. 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:56.560 And he looked at a couple of different things and then ended up with a care franchise that was based from like a London-based company that had about 20 kind of franchises but didn't have one in Scotland. 00:02:56.639 --> 00:03:02.159 So he was a franchisee of the franchisee of like uh a UK care at home uh company. 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:26.240 Okay, and he started that with a branch nurse, and then when I came back from traveling, I basically came in as the graduate um that just kind of just got stuck in and helped with everything between recruiting for staff, kind of doing the job adverts, the early kind of like pre-vetting, then where the clients that were the people that needn't care, and piecing that together was the the bit that I went into. 00:03:26.400 --> 00:03:30.879 And then latterly, maybe about six months later, my mum joined the business. 00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:34.560 She was in the Ministry of Defence and did compliance and audit. 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:51.120 And how it kind of like panned out was my dad did all the finance, my mum did all the quality and assurance, and I did kind of the ops and logistics of getting care staff in and finding clients and kind of doing that kind of marketplace element and matching them together. 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:55.680 So, did you become part of that business in terms of ownership, or were you just sort of uh employed up? 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:59.360 Yeah, I got I got some ownership in in that business was a director. 00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:14.800 I went through all the qualifications to become like a registered manager so I could like run a care home effectively as a manager, and yeah, but more the passion I liked was like the ops and the problem solving of that side of that. 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:21.600 Like I really liked the challenge of the strategy of being densely populated, getting as many clients in the one location. 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:28.160 Kind of like you go a little bit into property in that as well, you know, like how you build your portfolio, what's the kind of customers that you're going for? 00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:40.560 And we just focused on Mornside Grange in Edinburgh, where it was only EH9, EH10 was the only two postcodes that I kind of put a constraint on the business that that's where we're

only going to take clients from. 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:41.920 Brent, did that work quite well? 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:44.879 Obviously, having that sort of small area rather than it's expanding sort of further. 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:46.800 Is that sort of fundamental to the management? 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:49.839 Yeah, because the care at home is difficult. 00:04:49.920 --> 00:05:00.319 What I kind of seen was lots of other businesses would just take clients all over the city, and your carers would only get paid, and we would only get paid for time spent in a home. 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:03.759 So that downtime and travel time, like nobody was winning. 00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:10.399 Um, and there wasn't a lot of people picking up in EH9, EH10 because there was park parking issues, so like carers couldn't park. 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:17.279 So you'd get a lot of walking carers that didn't have access to a car that would apply, but you would say no because they were doing that. 00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:20.480 So then I was more like, well, let's just blitz EH910. 00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:21.839 It'll be painful initially. 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:34.160 There might be a few long walks in there from the outset, but over the course of like six, seven years, that started to get really like densely populated with clients that we had. 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:58.399 So, like some of the kind of retirement buildings that we had there, we'd have like 10-15 clients in the one building, so it's almost like a care home shift for a carer where they would go in, and we could just then focus on just doing a really good quality business in there, and again, that's where all like our skills is between my mum and my dad and myself, like we all stayed in our lane a little a little bit and we can trusted each other. 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:00.480 And to be fair, I was only in my like early 20s. 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:06.639 I do give kudos to my mum and dad for they did let me just do it, like just get stuck in and solve it. 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:11.120 And it was yeah, it was a big development for me from like running the business. 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:44.959 But I think probably the most skill I took from it was kind of people management because you've got the carers on one side, which because of the nature of the business, you can't really afford to pay them too much, so it's a tough job with low wages, and then you've got more and say grain clients which are high net worth, and it's your loved one that you're caring for, and they're calling in with any concerns and problems, and you've got to be able to manage those both sides and keep it appeased like everyone within there while still trying to keep that quality that we were we're looking for as a business. 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:45.759 Oh, interesting. 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:50.399 Definitely a good sort of concept, like that idea of key keeping it all in that small area. 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:54.480 Yeah, um, and then when it came to care source or how did that that come about? 00:06:54.560 --> 00:07:00.399 Were you still um working in the family business at the time, or did you sort of leave that and then uh go into that? 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:08.959 Yeah, so I um because I it all kind of stemmed from that Morning Side Grange, EH9, EH10 postcode. 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:10.560 So the business did really well. 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:19.600 We had the highest grades you can get by the care inspectorate is a grade six, and we got grade six across all for like four consecutive years. 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:26.079 So we're really known as like one of the like the best in Edinburgh in terms of high quality like care. 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:35.920 So that led to people in Cramond or Portobello or Musselborough calling us in our office to be like, Can you would you deliver care for our loved one? 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:46.879 And because I only focused on EH9, EH10, I was saying no to all these people, and they were kind of saying, Oh no, there's like a list here of 20 different care at home companies, where do I start? 00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:50.240 And where your office is at care at home isn't where you deliver care. 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:53.360 So it's actually quite hard to know who could pick that up. 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:55.920 And again, that's where I was like naively was like this. 00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:26.800 I'll just create a marketplace where a bit like um trust a trader for care at home, where you would I knew the core information that a care business would need and would keep it confidential, put too much sensitive information in there, and then they would upload that and it would basically get pinged out to all the care providers in Edinburgh, and then they could review that, then sign up to the platform and submit an offer to that client of here's the times that we had available, here's our rate, here's our inspector grades. 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:30.879 And it was just that it flipped the flow a bit uh for someone looking for care. 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:36.720 And care seekers loved it because it saved them having to call those things. 00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:45.200 People people would offer back within like five minutes, and they've had a loved one that's been in hospital for you know, like six weeks, two months, and they've still not managed to find care. 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:49.039 And we were finding it in you know, like less than 10 minutes for them. 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:59.440 And the care providers loved it because it gave them the opportunity to get in front of clients in an easier way rather than potentially going through the council and a long, cumbersome process. 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:02.000 If you were not on that tender, it was quite hard to find care. 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:06.159 So it was really from that kind of like problem that it started to kind of expand. 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:12.559 And I just went to an

agency in Leaf and was like, here, this is what I'm looking to do. 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:17.120 Initially, I just paid like something like£500 and they gave me like mock-up designs. 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:20.000 And then I just went out to the care providers and started selling it. 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:22.159 It was like, here, but do you want to get onto this? 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:26.080 And did you have to raise sort of finance for that uh launch, or did you sort of sell it? 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:28.960 No, so I use a pre-sold access. 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:34.240 So effectively I got 25 grand from selling to providers before I'd written a line of code. 00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:34.879 Right, okay. 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:37.840 And then we used that money to start the development. 00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:46.960 And then I had a buy to let from my uni days that I still had that then I sold and used like 15-20 grand of that to put into the business as well. 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:53.840 And then one of the companies that I approached to kind of sign up, he loved the idea that much. 00:09:53.919 --> 00:10:00.000 He wanted to invest, and he did, so he put about 50 grand in at that stage. 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:03.039 We became co-founders, and there was a good mix. 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:05.440 So he was slightly older than me. 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:14.159 He had a his business was like four times the size of us, so he worked for West Lovian Council, Midlovian Council, Edinburgh Council, and East Lovian as well. 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:15.759 So he had huge coverage. 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:22.799 Um, so the thinking there was that if anybody came on, he probably would have a high probability of being able to match. 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:30.000 Um, and then we launched that uh this is going back in uh I think it was like June 2016, we launched Girls. 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:32.799 And you took that all the way through to exit as well? 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:33.279 Yeah. 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:38.960 And what and what was the reason sort of exiting that business rather than sort of stuff having it today? 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:43.120 So that was kind of COVID was in the middle of that, and that's kind of a key part of our journey. 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:54.000 So um we launched in 2016 and by 2018 we'd raised about nine million in funding from like venture capitals, and the business was starting to scale quite big. 00:10:54.159 --> 00:11:05.519 We had contracts with NHS, uh, we had contracts with large corporates, but our main kind of growth area for the business was on a cost per placement to care homes and to care at home. 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:18.240 Um, and then when COVID hit, effectively our revenue went to zero uh from from that side of uh of the business because hospitals were trying to discharge patients as quickly as possible. 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:23.279 COVID got into care homes, lots of residents sadly passed away. 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:26.639 So the care homes and people kind of went into lockdown. 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:38.159 They didn't want to admit new clients, and that kind of process was going on, and we were we had a team of 50, and a lot of them were like tech people, like XSkyScanner, X FanJu. 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:40.799 Um, so it was high salaries that were there. 00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:47.840 Um, so we furled quite a lot of the team because basically we're burning a huge amount of cash and we didn't know how long that was going to go. 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:53.120 Then, rightfully, those great talented people went and found jobs and other companies. 00:11:53.360 --> 00:12:00.000 So when we kind of were coming out of COVID, we pivoted more into like an employer benefit type business. 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:03.200 So we're selling to large corporates because the problem had shifted. 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:09.919 So because there wasn't a lot of like social interaction that was happening, people, if you were still working, that was your outlet. 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:12.399 Like that was you were on a Zoom call and that's who you were talking to. 00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:14.639 So we kind of quickly picked up on that. 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:22.720 We sold that as like basically if any of your employees had any needed to think care for a loved one, we would do all the search for you. 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:29.440 So we would shortlist homes, we'd do financial planning at a high level of like what their care costs would be, what they'd be entitled to. 00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:36.720 We could submit benefits on their behalf if they weren't registered for like attendance allowance, negotiate fees on their behalf. 00:12:36.879 --> 00:12:40.879 So the business became kind of like profitable at a much smaller scale. 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:44.159 And yeah, it was good, it was a good balance. 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:54.720 Though they were good days, you know, like the team were able to do the majority of the work, we were still able to take a decent income, but it was just kind of like that journey is tough, right? 00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:59.759 Like it's so many highs and lows and uh emotionally charged in that space. 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:05.120 I think we were just kind of ready to exit if we could. 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:07.840 Um we weren't overly pushing for that though. 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:17.440 Um bizarrely, we got two offers within the same month from two different kind of competitors as such that were kind of like space. 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:18.320 Or did you have to go? 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:20.559 We were approached on on that. 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:30.159 Um and their offers were were quite similar, um, but we went with one that would protect more of the team that we already had. 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:36.240 We could see the path that they were looking for, and they were just really wanting to kind of like productize more what we were doing.

00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:48.799 So a lot of the stuff we used was like care experts that were physically doing the search, so they were wanting a bit more of a hybrid approach, and they were going to go again and build more of that app journey around that, and there's they're still doing that now. 00:13:49.039 --> 00:14:03.039 Um, with our existing assets, they've still got the the marketplace, which is like your right move, and then they've got like care concierge, is what we kind of branded it as a term, and yeah, it's in some of the biggest companies in the UK now that that benefit is is there. 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:04.399 So it's still going strong? 00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:06.480 Yeah, I think it's still still good, yeah. 00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:16.080 Um I'm in touch uh now and then with the founders to see see how they're getting on, but it's at a place now we let them they run with it, yeah. 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:19.440 Uh and and make of it what they what they can. 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:26.000 And then after the exit you sort of moved on and you went you say that you sold a bite of lay but you went back into that again? 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:33.120 Yeah, so I'd always been interested in property, you know, homes under the hammer, your student days. 00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:35.200 Um but yeah, I got my first taste of it. 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:37.360 Mum and dad helped uh a lot. 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:58.720 They they bought uh it was a two-bed flat when I was at uni, I was in second year at uni, and then I rented it to one of the rooms to one of my mates, and it was kind of like you stumbled, stumbled into at that kind of stage, but it's where I first kind of triggered because that covered more than the mortgage, and then there was a little bit residual like left over. 00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:06.559 Um, and then one of my other mates was like I'd like to live with you guys, like we were all kind of like close. 00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:20.639 Um, so it was part of a new development actually that we're building it, and uh, I know this isn't always the case, but we kind of made like 30-40 grand selling the second bed, uh the two-bed and then buying a three-bed house literally across the road. 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:33.840 Okay, um, and it's because that block of flats but had all gone, and it was another family that were just wanting to buy something for their daughter and their friend, and it was kind of the same kind of thing, and there was lack of liquidity at that was a nice new build. 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:45.679 Um, so then we had moved into the house and I rented two big rooms to my mates, and basically one covered the mortgage and one was profit for me as a student, and I worked, so it was kind of like I could see how that would work. 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:50.000 We had that house for like 15 years, and it was never had any voids really. 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:53.679 It was always completely no problem, no hassle. 00:15:53.840 --> 00:16:00.799 So then I was like it did alright then, and I was always interested in it, so I just wanted to kind of give it a go. 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:05.360 And after selling the business, I wasn't sure if I was going to do another tech business again. 00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:08.879 I was kind of thinking like what is the next chapter for me? 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:15.360 And property felt safe-ish, you know, like it's quite a well-trodden path. 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:28.000 Um, so I thought I would try it and see if it would like it, and then if I did move away onto something else, it's seen then as like pension or portfolio kind of like management um that I was kind of happy with. 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:31.679 Yeah, you've always got the sort of asset there for the future as well. 00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:33.840 It's not just sort of the in the current time, is it? 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:34.320 Yeah. 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:41.840 Um, and you also took on some sort of consultancy roles as well in the sort of interim, I suppose, before you launched your new startup. 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:49.360 Yeah, so I took so what going through that sale, uh my my first daughter was born, and the timing couldn't have been any any better, to be honest. 00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:52.639 Like we sold uh the business in the April. 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:57.600 I had a three-month full-time carry, and then Ella was born in July. 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:17.519 Oh and then I took three months off fully um from there, and then I only went back and consulted back mornings, so I just did mornings, so I had like all that time and afternoons to spend time with Ella and give Louise a break and all that kind of stuff uh that that went with it. 00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:24.480 Perfect timing to get that sort of sort of blend um where you can obviously spend more time with the with the family and help at home and stuff like that. 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:25.519 Yeah, made a big difference. 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:28.559 It was something I was kind of I thought was important, you know. 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:38.880 Like I don't think you get the stars aligned in that, like I could get a chunk of cash off the table and spend a lot of time with newborn, you know. 00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:40.640 It felt like you couldn't put a price on that. 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:42.480 Yeah, no, I think exactly, yeah, yeah. 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:44.079 No, um I was I was the same as well. 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:53.599 Kind of felt that just had to sort of block that that diary out pretty much for the first couple months and then sort of just gradually just starting a couple of hours of of of every day again. 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:56.880 But like like you said, it was never the intention to necessarily go again. 00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:57.599 So what happened? 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:02.400 Did you just sort of come up with an idea or were you just sort of chilling your thumbs looking for the next thing?

00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:04.000 It touches on the consultancy bit. 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:14.559 So I was consulting to that one company, and then I was our first business, the care social business that we had, we were in Code Base in Edinburgh, yeah. 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:21.759 Um, and they've got a Scottish government contract for called TechScaler, which basically helps accelerate startup businesses. 00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:32.640 Um, and they were looking to try to get a bit more founder experience into the business to help other startups and tech companies go through that journey. 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:45.759 Um, so I went, I was doing three days a week um roughly with them just in-house, but helping founders at that kind of inception stage up to series A, which is roughly like one million ARR. 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:52.319 It's kind of like that's the sweet spot where I could probably add the the most value to a startup. 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:55.599 And what's the ARR annual recurring revenue, right? 00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:58.079 Okay, so like one million turnover, yeah, turnover. 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:08.960 Yeah, and from there, um did that sort of develop your idea for Hosel, um like you said when you when you when you were there, yeah. 00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:23.200 It's the balance of like I've got a creative mind which is uh uh good and bad, it's got it's a demon as well as it's uh exciting to kind of like a light getting ideas and kind of kicking that around. 00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:35.839 And speaking to founders was an outlet for that because I could quite clearly like riff of them, you know, like ideas and triage, or could you take it here, or here's potential problems that you're gonna see. 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:44.960 And I hadn't hadn't really been an employee before, other than that phase where the company got bought, and then I was working with them. 00:19:45.119 --> 00:20:09.599 I'd always kind of been out on my own, so a part of it was like going to code base, and they were great because they kind of gave me I was kind of could do what I'll kind of do what I'd want within the kind of remit of speaking to the companies and just helping progress their journeys, but there just felt like a little bit of that niggle in my head in terms of I've built up a lot of knowledge and experience in that time. 00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:11.519 What's the best way for me to channel that? 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:26.480 And I know the costs that come with a startup and how consuming it can be, and the stage of the family, and all that kind of thing was kind of like in in my head, but yeah, it's infectious being around founders, like it's kind of like you get the buzz, you get the energy. 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:34.160 And the the golf like hustle came about just purely from being inquisitive. 00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:46.799 Like, you know, like I went to go sell a golf club and they offered me something like 70 quid, but then I knew they were selling it for 150 quid, so then I looked into their accounts and they were turnover like multi-millions, and I was like, Whoa, well that's a big market. 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:55.039 And then with my marketplace experience, I was able to kind of look and say, well, there's all this activity on Facebook, Gumtree, eBay. 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:58.319 There's sellers have problems that they're trying to solve. 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:01.599 They're they're trying to use other channels to sell stock. 00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:06.880 And as a golfer, they're really bad experiences, you know, like on Facebook and Gumtree. 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:09.039 It's the can you come around? 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:10.400 Does it have to be cash? 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:11.200 Is it real? 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:12.000 Is it fake? 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:14.799 All that kind of noise that comes with it. 00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:22.720 And the same on eBay, like it's a fair enough, it's online, but they're still scams, it's hard to navigate, it's hard to filter. 00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:37.119 And I could just see from other businesses, so like Bat Market and Electronics, they did an aggregation and they took a whole load of business away from eBay just by being seen as experts and given a better niche-down experience. 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:47.759 Reverb did it in music for instruments, guitars, um, equipment like for studios, MVP kind of does a similar kind of concept there. 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:49.839 So then I just seen that in golf. 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:51.759 And golf's a big it's a big market. 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:55.519 Um passion as well, when you're probably not a good one. 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.759 I just think like it had to be that selfishly going again. 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:12.720 Like care and tech for good was it was nice, like you you had a motivation to get up and going because you were physically helping people at a time of need, but it wasn't a huge passion of mine. 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:18.960 And golf is like now I'm having meetings with other companies and people that are pretty high profile in golf space. 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:20.799 It's exciting, you know, like it's fun. 00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:37.279 Like I don't see it as work uh necessarily, which feels like a really good balance, but obviously there's definitely work within there when you get into the business elements and dealing with legals and accountants and all that kind of stuff that can go with it, which can be a bit more taxing. 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:43.839 Um but the good definitely outweighs the kind of bad for in that kind of respect. 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:53.440 And did you go down sort of a similar path that you did with the Care Sourcer in in terms of self-funding it and all that sort of thing, or did you have to go and sort of raise more funding for this one? 00:22:53.759 --> 00:23:04.640 Yeah, so I wasn't overly keen initially on just bootstrapping it, and that just

means by just like hustling to kind of self-fund it and go through it. 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:10.319 These businesses normally need quite a lot of capital and you need to grow quite quickly. 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:18.240 So I went for investment uh initially, and it was pr primarily I was going to just fund it through angels. 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:23.279 Um, so I just posted, and this was came from another founder that was in Code Base. 00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:32.480 I seen that she posted on LinkedIn that she was doing a raise, and she raised, I think it was like 180 grand in a week, kind of thing, from just posting on LinkedIn and getting inbound. 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:38.160 And I'd it just perked my interest, and I was like, all right, sod it, I'll just be bold, put it out there. 00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:40.880 This is what we're looking to build, this is the space that we're in. 00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:48.000 We're looking for investment, and that's via like SEIS, is what that would uh which we could probably come on to a little bit. 00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:55.599 But the same thing, kind of I got like 167 grand within a week from committed from people that were interested in what I was doing. 00:23:55.759 --> 00:24:05.920 One of them was a founder that I knew that had exited the business, another one was someone that had worked with me um before, and knew my business partner, co-founder Charles as well. 00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:18.160 So had a good close relationship, and they wanted to just back us because they think they could see the opportunity, but also back us as individuals that we've got the knowledge now and we should build to execute it. 00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:19.519 And then slowly that just came up. 00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:27.119 So we roughly about I think it was like 250, 270 came from Angels just from network, uh, just putting it out there. 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:35.680 And then another founder in Edinburgh actually referred me to the London Fund Ascension, um, and then they invested a further 230. 00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:38.400 So it was a total of 500 grand into what came in. 00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:40.720 Uh-and that was all before lunch. 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:43.200 Uh yeah, so that was June last year. 00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:53.039 That was the first, so we've done it by uh advanced subscription agreement, which is like a US equivalent of like a safe, where they put their money in straight away uh so that we can kind of get cracking. 00:24:53.279 --> 00:25:05.200 But we kind of closed around December last year, launched softly in January, then did a public launch in the press and stuff in March of this year. 00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:09.920 And that's purely equity stake that they were getting rather than anything else like interesting. 00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:11.359 Pure equity. 00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:11.680 Yeah. 00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:18.960 So obviously, technically a bit of risk on them, but then there's supposed advantages as

well if you're if you're going down that sort of EIS or SEIS route. 00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:20.160 Yeah, there's still a bit of risk. 00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:28.799 So like with SEIS, I think it's roughly just over 70% is the total risk if the business was to fail, then they could claim back uh loss relief. 00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:35.759 And I think for um EIS it's roughly about 62%, would they would be able to claw back? 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:36.400 Right, okay. 00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:40.720 Um depending on your check size, obviously if it's a big check, then the variable is a bit more. 00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:46.960 But if you're putting in 10 grand, there's roughly like a one grand difference between SEIS and EIS. 00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:50.799 Um if you were kind of investing that way, if the business was to fail. 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:52.319 Yeah, no, it's quite interesting. 00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:55.039 I've been kind of introduced to that more recently. 00:25:55.200 --> 00:26:05.200 I've done a few small things previously, but I didn't really know much about the sort of um EIS and the advantages, but I've sort of been looking that into that myself a bit more. 00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:05.519 Yeah. 00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:09.440 Um, because obviously opportunities and there are so many uh tax benefits. 00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:13.039 Is it even is it capital gains tax uh exempt as well, or how does that work? 00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:18.480 Your income uh so uh when you exit zero zero capital gains, so all upside. 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:18.880 Uh-huh. 00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:59.039 Uh so yeah, you're investing, it's like say if you've got 10% of your total worth that you want to do high-risk investments, and then if you've got a bit of a network and you know companies or founders or tech a little bit, it makes a lot of sense for people that have been in that space to place those bits, especially if you've got a network that can help accelerate that business and open doors because those early stages network the more and more I get into business, it's network that powers a lot of your growth and then uh that that was a big thing that I've unlocked, I think, because I found our first time and second time a positive thing that's come out of COVID. 00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:05.119 So pre-COVID meetings were face to face, so you'd have to go down to London or you'd have to travel a lot. 00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:16.720 But now you can once we did that press release, I literally blitzed a Wednesday and a Thursday back-to-back 30-minute because you get a whole load of inbound that comes with a lot of recruiters. 00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:24.720 Uh, but yeah, a lot of like other partnerships that businesses that are at a similar stage are slightly ahead, like what you're doing, want to hear a bit more. 00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:31.200 And I've had make decent sales off the back of that, just having those meetings because it's introductions that then follow on. 00:27:31.279

--> 00:28:00.400 And as long as you're like nice and quid per quo a little bit, you know, like if there's value in the network and you can open doors there, then I'm always pro that not to be like noisy or annoy or pester people, but if you actually feel like you can help accelerate people, and I picked up a lot of that from the code-based consultant, and that's like making introductions and seeing those relationships kick on, you know you get better at what's a good placement and and what's not to kind of like make that introduction. 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.519 And do you think for a Scottish founder it is a bit more difficult? 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:09.039 Obviously, a lot of the funding does tend to come from London more often or not. 00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:11.359 Um what's your sort of views on that? 00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:17.839 I'm a bit um I'm a bit bullish uh on founders to be it's up to the founder. 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:25.519 Like I think that's an easy an easy get-out statement, and it would just tell me like London's a 30 pound 30 pound flight. 00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:26.079 You know what I mean? 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:30.480 Just get down there and do the networking and make the you've got to hustle at this stage. 00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:32.799 Um, you've got to put yourself out there. 00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:36.160 No's are common, you've just got to learn from the no's. 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:37.440 Like, why are they saying no? 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:43.359 Is there something in what they're saying, or are they just not getting it, and you've just not explained it right at that time. 00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:48.720 Um, but yeah, there's not as much wealth up here, so it's harder to raise. 00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:58.319 Um, down there, there's so much more wealth, and um, even with Co-base, they do trips out to like Silicon Valley and stuff, and there's way more appetite and high risk. 00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:11.039 It's almost like it's a badge of honour out there to be placing the checks and knowing that they might not go anywhere, but you're doing your bit for that ecosystem and you're involved in the game, um, essentially. 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:23.599 So, yeah, I'm I'm a bit more you've got to put yourself out there, you've got to put yourself in situations where you can get lucky, and that's normally just because you've put the work and the effort in and put yourself out there. 00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:26.079 Yeah, yeah, it all does make sense. 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:29.920 You've got to obviously have that drive as well, you've got to believe in the in the product. 00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:35.519 But suppose Edinburgh is kind of is it known as a bit of a uh hub for tech startups and stuff like that? 00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:53.920 Yeah, it's pretty strong, Edinburgh, and Glasgow's kind of like kicking on a lot of it, but um, there's that legacy of so Skyscanner and FanJo were both based in Edinburgh, they're Scotland's two tech companies that got a billion dollar valuation, and there's been that kind of like ripple effect. 00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:06.480 So in Silicon Valley, you can see it was called uh like the Uber and Mafia, where like lots of them have effectively then went on and found other businesses, and that kind of like ripple effect starts to go through. 00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:12.720 We're starting to see that a little bit here with the with the businesses in in uh Scotland. 00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:26.799 A lot of them haven't necessarily went on to start a tech company, albeit just now there was a tech company in Edinburgh called Wordsmith AI, just raised 70 million, and that was a former skyscanner employee. 00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:34.079 Um, and they're tipped to well on a path to be another huge success uh in the Scottish tech ecosystem. 00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:41.680 And then that ripple effect of all those employees then comes out, they've learned on the journey they can start their businesses. 00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:52.799 So it takes time to build that, and that's what that Scottish Government contract with TechSkiller was trying to do, was trying to just how do we just help massage this through a bit quicker or accelerate some of those connections. 00:30:52.960 --> 00:31:14.720 Um, and you but our team, we we must have had about 20 former FanJuel and Sky Scanner employees at CareSorcer, and with Hosel, Duncan and Charles, the two kind of lead lead tech uh people in the business, have both helped with the app for Sky Scanner and were employees at FanJuel, so like they've got good experience, and that helped with the raise, right? 00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:27.119 It's kind of like credible tech people that have got experience that we're not learning on the job, we're learning the market, and if we do that quickly, then we should have a higher chance of success. 00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:28.559 And that must be quite key. 00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:37.519 The sort of people behind it, like yourself, you've already launched a previous one that you you were able to um sell, sell on, so you've obviously got that all that experience that you've you've been there done it before. 00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:58.559 Um, and then obviously you're saying the other people that have got all that experience, whether it's a skyscan or and and all that sort of thing, that must obviously be a yeah, it it's good, and I'm like very fortunate to like it could have easily been a failure for us, CareSourcer, you know, like with the COVID and all that stuff, but we managed to kind of go again, a business within a business is kind of like how I'd probably describe it. 00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:11.200 But there's a Scottish-British mentality that kind of like fear of failure a bit a bit too much, but it's that learn, like honestly, the learning you can get by just doing with best endeavour. 00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:19.519 Like, I'm not saying go and splash 200 grand on an advert and you've only

raised half a million, like that would be foolish. 00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:31.759 But if you're sensible of the money and you but you fail and learn fast, and then you go again, the probabilities of that founder is double of that just of the person just starting from scratch. 00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:33.039 Yeah, that's even one for me. 00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:38.000 I've always got that a bit of fear when it comes to I always want to succeed whatever I do. 00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:55.279 Um, but I suppose there's a lot of learning to be done if you if you fail at something and it if you can, like you say, fail fast and and and move on and just learn from where you've gone wrong, and you obviously you're still building your your network, your knowledge, and everything else, you can take that on, can't you? 00:32:55.440 --> 00:33:00.160 Yeah, and it's it's learning, it's like it's like if you replace failure with learning because that's what you've done, you've just learned. 00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:02.400 Just being a bit more positive the way you think about it as well. 00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:07.440 And if you if you uh you shouldn't make the same mistake twice. 00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:08.000 No. 00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:20.079 But what I've probably found now is that you I probably with the second business, my I stopped to small mistakes, but big mistakes could still happen. 00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:25.279 Uh so I've just got to be mindful of that because you don't want to get complacent, you know, as you're going through. 00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:27.759 So um yeah. 00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:33.279 And do you see a lot more sort of AI-based uh type businesses coming through? 00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:35.839 And is it is everyone more backed by AI now? 00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:39.519 Yeah, it's definitely trending, but it's definitely it's not a phase. 00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:41.119 Like this is like here to stay. 00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:46.640 Like these businesses are are huge and they're automating at at mass scale. 00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:51.039 Um, and there's one in property that's doing really, really well in in Edinburgh. 00:33:51.279 --> 00:34:08.880 Um, that kind of like onboarding journey, you know, like there's a lot of like if you're going to get guarantors, all that process can just be done by an agent, it doesn't need to be someone in that team that's doing it, um, or instructing to pay invoices or bills and all that automation is coming. 00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:20.880 Um, it's where most cash is going, but it's developing at such a pace, even some of the VCs and investors are like, we don't even know where to place our bets because it's evolving so quickly. 00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:26.079 Um, and that's where the marketplace is harder to disrupt with AI. 00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:35.199 There's still that kind of two sides, so it's more like how can AI enhance the experience that we are trying to build for golfers, um, is what we're looking at. 00:34:35.280 -->

00:34:47.039 And it's more understanding your needs, your specification, your requirements, what brands you like, how can we make that a slick process for you and leverage it for good? 00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:56.800 You know, like it's like the it's definitely a chain chapter in tech where you know you get the live chat pop up on the website maybe 10-15 years ago and oh, what's this? 00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:19.840 But now if that becomes more a prompt, like this prompt culture is definitely coming into business a lot more, will just an average user engage more with that now because they understand that fair enough it's not a person, but this thing's actually quite clever, or it does give me quite good impact through Chat GPT or Gemini or Perplexity, all those kind of things. 00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:20.480 Yeah, yeah. 00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:38.079 And and do you think AI is involved in sort of the the idea or the the starting the business, or do you think it's more once the business is established and it's for like kind of processes and um systems and all that, where would you say it best sits? 00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:48.000 Uh so if you're an AI first business, you know, like there'll be day one just leveraging the power of AI to automate and scale everything. 00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:56.800 For us, it's kind of like how do we like we have a strong desire to try to keep the team as small as as possible. 00:35:57.039 --> 00:36:00.960 So, how can we leverage AI to help us achieve that? 00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:11.440 And if we could get a customer service agent, for instance, where it's not trying to find someone care, it's buying a golf club, they've got a problem with shipping or arrived broke. 00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:22.159 How could we use a really good comprehensive customer service agent to be able to solve those problems where we don't need to hire a team of you know, like five, ten people if the business starts to scale? 00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:29.360 Um, that's where we're trying to like leverage it a bit more to try to keep the team as as tight as possible. 00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:32.320 And you're using AI quite a lot at the moment within Hoslow? 00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:33.280 Yeah, I use it every day. 00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:33.679 Right, yeah. 00:36:33.920 --> 00:37:06.079 Even for like the the raise, it's it's kind of like your unofficial co-founder and in that sense that you can literally even like last night I was doing stuff and because it it holds the content and context of all your previous conversations, it even surfaced something to me that was like I didn't even consider that, you know, like that was something that it brought to mind again as another like proof point or validation point of like what I was basically discussing with it. 00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:28.320 But yeah, it's good to maybe even a bit of like therapeutic and that it's somewhere where you can lay it bare and just like put put all the information down, even if it feels like a stupid fault, and you weren't like say you had a mentor or an advisor, and you wouldn't really want to ask them that question because you don't want to look silly, which is silly anyway. 00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:41.360 Like you should just a good mentor and advisor would be able to help you through that, but you can at least build up your knowledge a bit more so when you go into a conversation with an advisor or a mentor or a customer, your baseline's just higher. 00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:45.760 And I suppose like you're saying the AI is not going to judge you at all. 00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:49.199 And what sort of like um AI do you use? 00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:50.480 Like is it like Chat GPT? 00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:52.880 I use ChatGPT. 00:37:53.039 --> 00:38:00.639 Um, the engineers they're much more claud-based, is what is what they prefer, which is quite good. 00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:17.599 So, like with my business partner, ever going through a discussion, so like we sometimes we're doing negotiations, we like to put in the scenario to each and see how close it comes back, and then we discuss that to help shape and refine our thoughts. 00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:25.679 A lot of it is quite similar, to be fair, but it's even quite good to just put that in different kinds of models and sort of LLMs to see what comes back. 00:38:26.079 --> 00:38:26.400 Okay. 00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:28.320 Interesting. 00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:36.639 And with Hosle at the mall, we mean obviously it's quite new, so it's at the very sort of beginning, would you say, or or where are you in the journey, would you say? 00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:40.159 Yeah, like we're we're definitely at the beginning. 00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:42.159 Like we launched in March. 00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:46.880 We actually had a huge amount of interest from like sellers and customer side. 00:38:47.039 --> 00:39:00.960 The response has been really good, and yeah, a lot of those have matured into commercial agreements, so you can buy like stock and inventory live on Hossle now, and we are generating like low sales volume through that. 00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:02.960 The biggest thing for us is going to be demand. 00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:05.920 You know, how do you make golfers aware of that? 00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:15.679 And yeah, we're we're a commission, a smaller commission-based model as a marketplace, so trying to get as many golfers as aware as possible about Hossle and the value that we do. 00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:20.639 So it's like a comparison, like skyscanner for golf clubs, effectively. 00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:27.119 Like you'd be able to see here's the three, four different sellers that are selling the club at the exact spec that I want. 00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:33.280 And you'll be surprised that there is a variance that can even be like 20, 30 quid for that secondhand club. 00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:37.599 And those sellers are quite good at indexing you off this is what it is, new. 00:39:37.840

--> 00:39:46.960 So you'd always thought you were getting a deal, but we're just surfacing what the actual deal is by the secondhand market uh value. 00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:57.360 So yeah, uh try to get access to as much demand in golfers as possible as cheaply as we can so that our economics uh can work. 00:39:57.920 --> 00:40:15.519 Definitely sounds like a sort of great quote, too, as well, if you're obviously looking to um buy and deceive because there's so many different um ways you can you can buy second hand, but I suppose there's not having it all in the in the one place, so it's definitely a um sector or area of that market that you've obviously identified. 00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:15.840 Yeah. 00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:17.440 Um and the data's amazing. 00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:21.119 Like that's where you're going into this AI LLM world, you know. 00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:31.280 Like I've been playing around with downloading a data set, I think it was roughly you know, like 70,000 to 100,000 clubs that we've now got of all the secondhand market and pricing. 00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:39.440 And I was kind of putting in uh just nerding out on it a little in terms of like depreciation rate of drivers, depreciation rate of putters. 00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:45.280 And you can actually say like a ping driver is actually the best one to buy from a depreciation point of view. 00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:52.079 You know, they don't have as many models that come out, but it's still a high-quality product. 00:40:52.320 --> 00:41:05.679 Um, and then it was submariner Rolex watches was saying that's effectively Scott Cameron putter because there's a high volume of actually resale putters on our marketplace, but they all hold their value really well. 00:41:05.920 --> 00:41:13.039 When you compare that to like an Odyssey putter, you've got like loads of stock and inventory, but the you can see the prices are depreciating. 00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:32.480 So you're getting into the data is super interesting from that perspective where you can educate golfers and have different hooks of what can bring people in to the product and give them a bit more thought on well, it's a secondhand putter, I'll buy it, but at least I could probably sell it on for roughly the same the same price. 00:41:32.719 --> 00:41:33.519 It's pretty key. 00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:42.000 So to the consumer at the end of the day, that they can obviously see that uh information is not something you'd normally normally think about for golf clubs, but yeah, it doesn't make sense. 00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:46.880 And to be fair, like I went down that path, it was reverb that did it for the musical instruments. 00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:56.320 They were really good at as a consumer, if you buy this, they gave you your here's next year's price that we estimate, and it just de-risks it for you. 00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:59.199 And it's just like that kind of psychology, a checkout. 00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:04.639 Like, how

can you just make those small percentage of gains to get people to transact on the platform? 00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:06.800 Yeah, no, it definitely makes a difference. 00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:08.960 And what's the vision then for Hussle? 00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:09.679 Uh, how do you see it? 00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:11.679 What's your sort of you've got like a five-year plan? 00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:13.280 Are you thinking about an exit already? 00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:14.719 Are you building towards an exit? 00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:20.960 I think the exit's always where we want to get to it's a bit of a go big or go home kind of business for us. 00:42:21.039 --> 00:42:25.360 You know, like we're keen, we can see the kind of real appeal of this. 00:42:25.519 --> 00:42:43.440 There's no one really doing exactly what we're doing yet, but there's bound to be someone that comes into the space more hopeful to be into the US later this year, and it's like seven times the search volume for like golf equipment uh and people playing in the US. 00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:49.199 So it's a key market for us that we want to try to get out there um as quickly as possible. 00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:55.119 Because obviously, if you if you unlock something in the UK, that'd be good, but there's a s there's a seal in there. 00:42:55.280 --> 00:43:00.639 But if you can unlock it in the US and you can see that ripple effect, then it's really important that we would get out there. 00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:04.400 And there's a big massive second-hand market in Japan for the equipment. 00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:09.440 So and in Europe, there's there's not really a lot of big players. 00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:17.039 There's like two UK sellers that are probably the biggest in Europe that can have service there. 00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:25.760 Um, there's not been a lot of someone that's run away uh with it in in Europe, so we can start to aggregate those sellers as well and do it. 00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:28.960 We actually had a sale uh last week in Sweden. 00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:41.440 That was our kind of first uh one cross-border, um, but just showed that people can stumble upon it, they're looking to solve that problem, and we were able to aggregate those sellers and they pop our okay, no, yeah. 00:43:41.679 --> 00:43:48.400 Um, but yeah, definitely scope there to expand, and obviously if you've seen it already into into Europe and stuff like that, yeah. 00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:50.800 Uh you can definitely see there's there's the the market there for it. 00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:59.199 So, as I touched on, um you've you've got young children, um, and obviously you're uh constantly growing hossel. 00:43:59.280 --> 00:43:59.760 I mean, what does it 00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:01.760 Typical sort of week look like for you? 00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:04.559 Yeah, it's definitely it's definitely different. 00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:11.519 What's quite good is um well, there's the pros and cons to I'm not in the

5 a.m. 00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:16.639 club from a CEO perspective, but I'm definitely from a second child uh perspective. 00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:21.920 Like both our girls will get up early, they are like five to six is roughly their wake-up time. 00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:22.480 Right. 00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:27.519 Um, but at that time they are fairly chilled but awake. 00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:36.960 Um, so we can get them get them up, get them down, uh, a bottle, I have a coffee, I can do a bit on my phone, kind of look up what's come through last night. 00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:38.960 Is there anything that's gonna come up in emails? 00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:50.639 I can do a bit of thinking in that time without being too onerous, then nursery drop-off back at the desk for nine, uh, then just get into emails and calls and meetings. 00:44:50.719 --> 00:44:57.440 Um, predominantly we're remote first, so a lot of it is at home, which helps with that work-life balance a little. 00:44:57.679 --> 00:45:06.639 Um, that you can just get into the office quickly without that commute and the added stress of doing the drop-off and getting in and then getting back. 00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:24.159 Like if work technically finished at five, then you'd need to kind of leave a bit earlier, nursery shots at six, and all that kind of juggling that that you've got to do, then it's kind of like dinner, bath, and then bed, and then depending on what's happened, I might do a little bit of work. 00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:28.639 Um, I have a bit of a hard stop around eight to nine. 00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:30.639 If I work past that, I can't get to sleep. 00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:43.280 Like it's just my mind starts going, and I do have sometimes have like great thoughts, you know, like at 11 o'clock when I'm lying on the pillow, and I'm like, sit up, put a note in my phone, go to sleep now, uh, try the best. 00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:49.519 But yeah, I do try stop to have that switch off time, otherwise I I do struggle a bit to get to sleep. 00:45:49.760 --> 00:46:03.440 Um and I'm not as it's a ultra marathon, you know, like a tech startup, you know, it has to be sustainable to some, but yeah, you've got to put put hours in to get that effort. 00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:08.320 But I've definitely a lot more balanced than what probably would have been was the last business. 00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:20.320 You've still got that sort of flexibility though, that you can sort of choose a lot of your your your hours, how you sort of manage it between um family life and and and that work balance is still quite key, isn't it? 00:46:20.559 --> 00:46:21.199 Yeah, definitely. 00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:25.280 Um and it's the same for the team, right? 00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:29.599 Like we've all got at Hossel, we've all got two daughters, believe it or not. 00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:42.639 Between there's like four of us that are quite uh active in the business, and uh all of us have two daughters and yeah, quite quite ranging from like nine down to two under one kind of thing. 00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:43.440 Right, okay, yeah. 00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:45.920 So you all you understand what position you're all in. 00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:52.320 I trust them, you know, like we're all gonna put the effort in, we know what's at stake here. 00:46:52.559 --> 00:47:07.199 That 500 grand only takes us so far, the burn is going down, we're not gonna be profitable within that year, we're gonna have to raise again, so we're gonna have to make those metrics move in the right direction to be able to keep this going if that's what we want. 00:47:07.360 --> 00:47:14.079 So and the sort of main people in the business are they um employees, are they uh shareholders or the mix? 00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:14.960 What sort of dynamics? 00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:18.639 Well, like in tech, it's common to try to give everyone chairs. 00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:23.519 So predominantly it's myself and Charles are co-founders, we've both got equity. 00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:30.559 And then Duncan, uh our lead engineer, it's yeah, salary and equity standard at that kind of stage. 00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:37.840 And we've got one consultant uh who's kind of like more part-time uh in the business, but that's just like a consultant agreement. 00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:50.000 But definitely if we were to bring them in-house, like every employee would want to have a piece of the business so that we all see that benefit for the ultimate goal that we're we're pushing for. 00:47:50.400 --> 00:48:01.760 And to continue that sort of growth, you've obviously got plans in place for another raise, then you were saying, Yeah, so yeah, it depends on like we've had offers um already for like more capital in the business. 00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:12.480 It's just trying to be is that right, is now the right time to pull the trigger on that, um, or are we gonna try push the metrics more and do a larger like raise? 00:48:12.880 --> 00:48:22.960 Uh like a multi-million raise is probably what we'd want to do for our for our next round, especially if we're going into the US market, like we're gonna have to have capital behind us in there. 00:48:23.199 --> 00:48:28.719 So um yeah, our metrics just trying to get that balance of like an early stage marketplace. 00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:32.239 They normally need huge amounts of capital to get it going. 00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:41.519 So it's just trying to move the metrics in the right direction, have that narrative of where we're going, and showing that traction of we're doing what we're saying we're going to do. 00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:53.679 Is it sort of quite difficult to get that balance where you're not giving away too much equity to sort of have enough in for the end, or do you need that anyway just to grow? 00:48:54.000 --> 00:49:07.199 I think um our first race we got a good good valuation considering we hadn't written a line of code, you know, like it was very much

here's the pit stick, here's the idea, we had a prototype that we kind of like mopped up, so that so that went well. 00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:12.960 And at this stage it's kind of gonna be like if we're smashing it, we'll raise fine and we'll get a good valuation. 00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:31.519 If we're struggling a little, then obviously you need to just take it on the chin and accept that this is what we're needed to go, or we can do uh kind of a bit like a pre-like a bridge, like we take some capital that helps us get to the phase that we're gonna go and raise at, and they get us like discount. 00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:38.239 Like that's one option that that founders can do if they don't think they're gonna hit the metrics on on what they're doing. 00:49:38.480 --> 00:49:40.480 You've obviously got Angel Network again as well. 00:49:40.719 --> 00:49:43.280 There's other people that can see where you're going. 00:49:43.599 --> 00:50:00.639 Um and you can do so that they go through like I say for advanced subscription agreement where you bake in when we do do our next institutional raise, you get a discount on that price, and you there's a reason why you can come in early and help us get to that um stage. 00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:03.679 Yeah, so obviously different different ways of of of doing it. 00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:07.119 Um and will you still sort of come under EIS for the next raise, do you think? 00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:08.000 Yeah, yeah, EIS. 00:50:08.079 --> 00:50:10.239 I think it's up to five million, but you mean seven million now. 00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:11.599 Um for EIS. 00:50:11.920 --> 00:50:17.679 Yeah, uh yeah, it's just two fifty SES, and then it's quite a large chunk that you can get um from EIS. 00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:18.000 Good. 00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:23.360 But yeah, sometimes if we're looking, I wouldn't rule out maybe trying to raise in the US if that's where we're gonna go next. 00:50:23.440 --> 00:50:24.320 So makes sense. 00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:27.920 They don't do EIS SEIS. 00:50:28.079 --> 00:50:35.679 Like some people are kind of anti that, you know, like it shouldn't be investing for tax breaks, it should be just like put the capital in, accelerate, and go. 00:50:35.840 --> 00:50:43.039 Uh it's not that onerous the the paperwork, but um yeah, some people can just see it as a bit of a distraction. 00:50:44.079 --> 00:50:50.639 And do you think your sort of vision and your sort of um driver for your your ventures, has that change now having the girls? 00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:52.239 Well, I went again. 00:50:53.360 --> 00:51:06.960 Uh yeah, uh I think I want to have uh there's a bit of unfinished business, you know, like with CareSourcer, we had such huge potential, and I don't feel like we fully lived up to that potential. 00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:09.840 Like we were very we're just a UK-based business. 00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:42.480 We were the whole of the UK, it was good, we've got some decent contracts, and we've got an

exit, but I definitely want to go on that next phase, which would probably more like a series A, which is that million revenue a year, and scale that, you know, like how can we get to series B, series C, and where I can make further learners, and then hopefully get an exit and then bring that back with some cash that can actually invest uh into startups and kind of give both that value of knowledge and experience and capital to back like early stage founders. 00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:48.639 That's definitely where I would like my next kind of like phase to be after Hussle. 00:51:49.039 --> 00:52:02.880 Okay, and you still got plans for the property portfolio, you still plan to go with that, or is that on the Some kind of I've got four bytelets in there just now, so just now sitting on it just because it's I'm busy with the kids and with the business. 00:52:02.960 --> 00:52:21.199 So yeah, just trying to have a bit of balance there, probably just keep renew the mortgages, keep the capital in if opportunities come up and I've got more time or whatever, or if Louise has more time, then we can maybe deploy that capital that way. 00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:32.400 But it just gives us choice, you know, like it's a little bit of like a uh pension fallback as well, and if we don't need it for that, then it's something that maybe the girls could pick up at some stage or help with them like later on. 00:52:32.639 --> 00:52:35.360 Yeah, something that can obviously go in for future generations, isn't it? 00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:35.920 Yeah, yeah. 00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:37.280 Excellent. 00:52:37.519 --> 00:52:41.679 Yeah, a couple other sort of uh questions I think I was sort of thinking as well. 00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:46.000 Obviously, uh golf itself, the game is a passion for you. 00:52:46.239 --> 00:52:50.239 Um I've picked up and dropped it so many times. 00:52:50.800 --> 00:52:54.719 And then every time I spend six months of year out of it, I just need to get back into it again. 00:52:54.880 --> 00:52:56.559 But not got manage it this year. 00:52:57.840 --> 00:53:00.719 I've actually not picked up the picked up the the clubs yet. 00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:03.440 Um what sort of handicap do you play off? 00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:04.719 I'm six just now. 00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:05.840 Okay, single digits. 00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:10.880 But uh that was pre-kids, so now I've creeped back up to the city. 00:53:10.960 --> 00:53:12.960 That's another thing you need the time for as well, don't you? 00:53:13.119 --> 00:53:13.519 Yeah, yeah. 00:53:13.599 --> 00:53:18.400 I don't get to don't manage to get out um as much to try to get that down. 00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:21.119 So like it's probably quite fair where my handicap is. 00:53:21.199 --> 00:53:24.239 Like I can still enjoy around and not feel like I'm not getting anywhere. 00:53:24.559 --> 00:53:24.800 Good. 00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:28.639 Yeah, uh yeah, I was never anywhere near that at all. 00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:36.159 Um and did you experience sort of buying and selling second-hand golf clubs as well throughout playing golf? 00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:37.519 Yeah, like I've always done it. 00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:42.719 You know, like I've I'm tall, so like mainly my irons I get fitted. 00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:51.360 Um that that's the main clubs that I've got fitted, but for drivers, three woods, hybrids, and putters, I've always bought secondhand. 00:53:51.440 --> 00:53:52.000 I've never bought them. 00:53:52.400 --> 00:53:59.199 I've never seen the the value in buying the brand new club, you know, like a bit like a car, isn't it? 00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:01.920 You drive it out, it just sort of depreciates it. 00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:03.280 Hit it, you know, like 20 times. 00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:09.519 It's probably got the exact same scuffs as a good secondhand club, which is a couple years old, and it's like half the price. 00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:12.960 So it just makes more sense to to do that. 00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:17.599 Does any club that you bought as old ever come to mind that was the best one you've you've done? 00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:25.679 Just from like a I don't know, there was like a tailor-made aero burner back in the day, which I like. 00:54:26.159 --> 00:54:34.159 It was a three-wood, but it had like a really like orangey, shiny head, which just looked really nice that I could hit it well. 00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:40.320 Uh so yeah, probably uh go back to that three-wood that that was nice. 00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:48.719 If you ever had to like go on golf on holidays or family holidays, and what would you always always always choose if you could only ever do do one or another? 00:54:49.039 --> 00:54:50.480 Oh, I would do the family holidays. 00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:54.639 Ideally, if you could get a bit of golf in there somewhere, then that's nice to do it. 00:54:55.039 --> 00:54:55.679 A bit of both. 00:54:56.159 --> 00:55:02.239 Um I'm hopeful that like all my family golf, so my brother, my mum, my dad, we all golf. 00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:14.320 So they're like we went to Turkey as a family holiday, and we golfed, and it was amazing, you know, it was like great resort, great weather, got a bit of golf. 00:55:14.480 --> 00:55:19.440 It's only like three rounds, you're out early because it's hot, so you're you're back by mid-morning. 00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:20.960 Uh anyway. 00:55:21.199 --> 00:55:24.880 So, yeah, it's trying to get Louise and the girls. 00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:32.559 My mum's keen to get them into golf because it's obviously there's not as many females that golf, and it's harder for like Louise and stuff, you know. 00:55:32.639 --> 00:55:36.400 Like if you're in that kind of like 30s, 40s, there's not that many that do golf. 00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:38.079 It's definitely becoming more common in the US. 00:55:38.480 --> 00:55:39.280 Does she golf or? 00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:39.920 Uh no. 00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:42.559 I've not she's been to the range, uh, had a hit. 00:55:42.639 --> 00:55:45.679 But Ella's picking up the putter, you know, like she's my next question. 00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:54.719 She, as I said, my mum's on a mission to get her uh into golf, so she's got a plastic set at my house, plastic set at my dad's house. 00:55:54.880 --> 00:55:54.960 Right. 00:55:55.199 --> 00:56:01.760 And then I think this year they'll actually go up to the putting green at the golf club and do a bit of putting and go and get an ice cream and a coke or whatever. 00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:02.960 All the fun things. 00:56:03.760 --> 00:56:04.159 Grand. 00:56:04.239 --> 00:56:09.840 Well, yeah, no, it sounds uh sounds like you're doing really good, and obviously great vision for the for the future. 00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:15.599 It'd be interesting to sort of follow the the journey with Hosle, see to see how it goes and kids grow up and all that sort of stuff. 00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:16.079 That's it. 00:56:16.159 --> 00:56:16.320 Yeah. 00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:18.000 But you know, being great having you on. 00:56:18.320 --> 00:56:19.440 No, thanks very much for your time. 00:56:19.599 --> 00:56:20.159 Really appreciate it. 00:56:20.480 --> 00:56:20.719 Certainly. 00:56:20.800 --> 00:56:21.119 Cheers. 00:56:21.440 --> 00:56:21.920 Thanks. 00:56:22.159 --> 00:56:25.280 That's a wrap for this episode of Profits and Parenting. 00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:33.679 If you enjoyed listening and would like to hear more real life stories on blending business and family life, please give the podcast a follow. 00:56:33.920 --> 00:56:38.079 You will also find us on the usual social media platforms for upcoming episodes. 00:56:38.239 --> 00:56:39.119 Thanks for listening.