TRANSCRIPT 🔗
WEBVTT
1
00:00:01.360 --> 00:00:10.480
Straw media. DTF stands for down
to expletive go to bed with someone,
2
00:00:11.199 --> 00:00:24.320
and we decided to completely flip the
script on what DPF stood for. Do
3
00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:28.640
you find that as the holiday season
closes in you feel more pressure to find
4
00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:32.359
romance? And maybe it's the movies, maybe it's the cold weather, maybe
5
00:00:32.359 --> 00:00:36.560
it's the shorter days, or maybe
it's just in our heads. Either way,
6
00:00:36.759 --> 00:00:40.359
dating as a queer person can sometimes
feel like a mine field, and
7
00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:44.439
add in a lack of inclusive language
on dating apps, the whole prospect can
8
00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:48.880
just seem overwhelming. Bumble hinge grinder, her Tender. Though some are more
9
00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:53.119
inclusive than others, they often fall
short. But one app is trying really
10
00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:58.640
hard to improve the dating experience for
the lgbt Q plus community. Almost twenty
11
00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:03.119
years ago, okay Cupid introduced online
dating to young people. It was one
12
00:01:03.159 --> 00:01:06.480
of the first of its kind and
also one of the first to offer an
13
00:01:06.519 --> 00:01:11.680
inclusive space for members of the lgbt
Q plus community. I'm Levi Chambers.
14
00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:15.640
My pronouns are he him, his, And today on Pride we're talking to
15
00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:21.560
Michael Ka, Associate director of Global
Communications at okay Cupid. We'll hear about
16
00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:26.400
okay Cupid's history of inclusivity and what
sets it apart from other dating apps.
17
00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.519
How Michael came to his role at
okay Cupid, and what it means to
18
00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:34.799
work for a company that values and
celebrates queer people, the recent major expansion
19
00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:38.480
of gender and identities on the app, and whether or not the moral capital
20
00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:49.560
translates to business capital. Hey,
I'm Michael Kay and this is Pride.
21
00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:56.680
So hello, Michael. Thank you
very much for joining us today to talk
22
00:01:56.760 --> 00:02:02.439
about this amazing company that you work
for. So first, could you go
23
00:02:02.439 --> 00:02:07.079
ahead and talk a little bit about
where you work and what kind of your
24
00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:09.960
responsibilities are and what what you do
from the day to day at that company.
25
00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:14.360
Absolutely, First, thank you so
much for having me here today.
26
00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:20.000
It's such an honor to be here. So I work at the dating app
27
00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:25.120
okay Cupid. We've been around for
nearly two decades at this point, so
28
00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:30.719
we are definitely an o G in
the dating game, and in my role,
29
00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:39.719
I'm really focused on storytelling for our
brand across markets all over the world,
30
00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:46.039
from North America to the Middle East
to Southeast Asia. So it's really
31
00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:52.400
fun to get to talk about dating
and relationships and how those really differ based
32
00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:57.680
on where you live and who you
are. Okay Cupid first launch almost twenty
33
00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:00.560
years ago in two thousand four,
and even so it was a trail blazer
34
00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:06.039
for inclusivity. It was started by
four Harvard guys that were not queer.
35
00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:09.680
They weren't even looking for love.
Instead, what interested them was more of
36
00:03:09.719 --> 00:03:15.919
a social experiment. The question was, is there a scientific way to predict
37
00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:23.680
compatibility. What's really different about okay
Cupid from all the other dating apps out
38
00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:29.080
there is that we are the only
dating app of the world that matches you
39
00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:35.439
on what matters to you, and
we do that through thousands of app matching
40
00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:39.120
questions. And before anyone panics if
you create an account on okay Cupid,
41
00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:43.439
we are not going to put you
to work and make you answer thousands of
42
00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:46.879
questions, um, but we do
make you answer at least fifteen, although
43
00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:53.840
most people go on to answer dozens
and dozens more. And those questions really
44
00:03:53.960 --> 00:04:00.879
cover everything you could imagine within the
dating relationships and suck realm. But we
45
00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:06.800
also have questions that um relate to
anything that's top of mind for millennial and
46
00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:14.479
Gen Z daters, from black lives
matter to climate change to reproductive healthcare,
47
00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:20.720
marriage equality, and other lgbt Q
plus rights. And because of these questions,
48
00:04:20.839 --> 00:04:29.600
we are really able to create a
tailored experience for every single person who
49
00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:34.240
uses are at, whether you are
a bisexual person dating in New York City,
50
00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:41.879
or a straight user dating in London, or a gay person dating in
51
00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:47.079
Mumbai. UM and we have localized
questions in over thirty countries around the world,
52
00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:50.839
so you know, British daters have
things that are top of mind that
53
00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:57.279
American daters might not care about.
And similarly, we also have a whole
54
00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:01.319
set of questions for lgbt Q plus
people because we recognize that what's top of
55
00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:06.439
mind for straight people might not be
top of mind for the queer community.
56
00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:11.720
Load full transcript
And even within our own community.
I mean I myself identify as gay,
57
00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:16.439
so within our own community, we
have questions for lesbians, questions for gay
58
00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:21.199
people, for bisexuals UM So we
really use these questions to create an experience
59
00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:26.560
that feels really unique to every single
person on the app. This inclusivity that
60
00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:29.480
you've that you just kind of described, and it goes beyond the LGBTQ plus
61
00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:38.079
community to even people within certain geographic
regions. Why has inclusivity been a precept
62
00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:43.160
of okay Cupid really seemingly since the
beginning, and why do you think it
63
00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.560
has taken so many of the other
dating apps and some of them still really
64
00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:50.560
aren't that focused on that level of
inclusivity. UM, why is it taking
65
00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:56.160
them so long to follow suit or
catch up? We're a dating app.
66
00:05:56.279 --> 00:06:01.319
People are coming onto our platform to
find love of to find meaningful relationships.
67
00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:08.120
And if you're not able to show
up as your truest self and express yourself
68
00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:13.639
however you possibly want, then we're
really not doing our job, or you
69
00:06:13.720 --> 00:06:15.800
know, if we're not creating a
space where you can do that. UM.
70
00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:21.199
We were the first leading dating app
to create a dedicated space on profiles
71
00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:27.120
for lgbt Q plus people to share
their pronouns, and we actually recently opened
72
00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:32.160
up that feature to our straight users
to UM because we want to really normalize
73
00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:39.000
the use of gender pronouns, and
it also makes it easier for our non
74
00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:44.399
binary and transgender users when they're seeing
straight people use pronouns as well. UM.
75
00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:48.839
We were also the first dating app
to offer expanded gender and orientation options,
76
00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:57.519
so we now offer twenty two gender
and twenty orientation options for our datas
77
00:06:57.560 --> 00:07:03.399
to choose from, and last Pride
Month so Prime Month, we actually expanded
78
00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:09.759
our identity options for our l g
B t Q plus data specifically, and
79
00:07:09.879 --> 00:07:17.600
some of those expanded identity options included
terms like their bottom switch versatile. Michael
80
00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:24.319
says. Okay Cupid now offers over
sixty identity options to choose from, with
81
00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:28.279
the option to choose up to five
at any time. And with all that
82
00:07:28.360 --> 00:07:33.199
added specificity and inclusivity, the folks
that okay cupids on an opportunity for education.
83
00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:38.519
So we spoke to non binary people, we spoke to transgender people,
84
00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:42.279
and they were saying, hey,
it's great that you offer all all these
85
00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:47.720
options, but what's happening is I'm
being matched with people who don't really understand
86
00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:55.439
what my identity is. So we
partnered with the Human Rights Campaign and we
87
00:07:55.480 --> 00:08:01.720
started adding definitions to all the different
identities we off for to our users.
88
00:08:01.959 --> 00:08:05.160
And when we think about inclusivity,
it's not just the l g B t
89
00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:11.399
Q plus community. So we have
a really great feature that I love on
90
00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:16.120
okay qpid. It's called profile badges, and this allows us to let our
91
00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:20.920
own datas signal to other people what's
really important to them. So we've released
92
00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:28.399
a climate change advocate badge over the
years. During the summer of we actually
93
00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:33.759
launched the Black Lives Matter profile badge
so that our users could signal to other
94
00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:39.120
people that they were in support of
the BLM movement, and over eight intend
95
00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:43.679
datas decided to add that badge to
their profiles. UM. So we're always
96
00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:48.519
using the product to make sure that
people feel really safe and comfortable on our
97
00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:54.679
platform. UM because if they're not
feeling like they can be themselves, like
98
00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:58.480
they're valued or heard or respected on
a platform where they're looking for love,
99
00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:03.039
they're never gonna be able to find, you know, those meaningful connections.
100
00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:07.159
So then in in countries let's say
that have anti lgbt Q laws or things
101
00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:13.080
like that, do you have to
navigate the political escape and kind of work
102
00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:18.159
within the guardrails of the culture essentially
UM to still be able to provide a
103
00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:22.440
platform where people are safe, if
that makes sense. What's beneficial to us
104
00:09:22.519 --> 00:09:26.720
is that we are always speaking to
our daters. We're not just talking to
105
00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:28.960
people in our own backyard. We're
speaking to people all around the world.
106
00:09:30.279 --> 00:09:33.759
We also have teams of people all
around the world, whether that's people who
107
00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:39.799
work specifically at okay Cupid or its
agency partners that we're leaning on. UM.
108
00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:45.000
So there are certain questions and features
that might show up for you if
109
00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:48.759
you're next to me in New York
City, UM, that won't show up
110
00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:54.480
for someone if
they're let's say,
in Turkey, and that's for their own
111
00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:56.720
safety. That's for their own protection. UM. It's also based on what
112
00:09:56.840 --> 00:10:01.679
they're comfortable talking about. We have
very and conversations, especially when it comes
113
00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:07.039
to some of these more conservative markets
where uh, you know, conversations around
114
00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:13.440
sexuality or sex or identity is a
little bit more taboo than it here than
115
00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:16.080
it is here in the United States. So we tailor our product to make
116
00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:22.159
sure that you know, people are
feeling safe and that they're um able to
117
00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:26.879
express themselves as much as they want
to. Many companies, especially ones who
118
00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:33.360
are operating in the same it's like
you have to contend with the political stances
119
00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:39.840
of lots of governments and societies and
and um political groups as opposed to just
120
00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:46.279
what's here in the United States.
Okay cup it is still very open about
121
00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:50.919
being a progressive company and trying to
be progressive even in those markets and to
122
00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:54.559
kind of express those progressive values even
if you have to, um, pull
123
00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:56.519
them back a little bit for the
safety of users like you just described.
124
00:10:56.840 --> 00:11:03.840
Do you think that helps or hurt
the company overall as a business, that
125
00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:07.080
is, you know, a platform
trying to connect people. That's a great
126
00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:09.720
question, UM, and I love
that you talked about it in terms of,
127
00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:15.519
you know, us catering to more
progressive issues, because we really don't
128
00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:20.039
see this, this being what we're
doing here at okay Cupid, as something
129
00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:24.159
that should be politicized. You know, we're not trying to align ourselves with
130
00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:31.600
different political parties around the world or
political candidates. What we are doing is
131
00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:35.320
we're listening to our gen z and
millennial daters. Those are the biggest demographics
132
00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:41.639
on okay Cupid. And those daters
are telling us that they are concerned about
133
00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:46.480
climate change, that they support the
Black Lives Matter movement, that they believe
134
00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:52.879
women should have the right to choose
what to do with their own bodies.
135
00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:58.399
So when our daters tell us that
something is really important to them to them,
136
00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:03.840
Um, and they do so by
answering our in app questions on all
137
00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:11.720
these topics, that allows us,
or really encourages us to create marketing campaigns
138
00:12:11.799 --> 00:12:18.240
and product features that resonate and mirror
the issues that are top of mind for
139
00:12:18.279 --> 00:12:22.360
those people. So in that way, it's it's almost like you are kind
140
00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:26.519
of crowdsourcing the platform in some way, you know what I mean, in
141
00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:30.360
terms of um asking these questions,
getting the feedback from the datas, and
142
00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:35.840
then using that to kind of guide
where you steer the company. Absolutely,
143
00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:39.840
I mean, when we started to
see that climate change was becoming a trending
144
00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:45.519
topic on our platform, we thought, why don't we introduce a feature where
145
00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:48.840
it goes right on your profile and
you can tell people that, yes,
146
00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:54.120
you believe climate change is real,
and yes you want your government to do
147
00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:58.799
something about it. And you know, features like that have been really successful
148
00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:03.320
in your pin It's it's literally from
us just listening to what people on our
149
00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:07.759
platform are saying is important to them. I mean, to me, that
150
00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:11.600
gives me a lot of hope to
see so many people expressed that black Lives
151
00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:18.000
Matter was important to them. So
I would imagine that that is not only
152
00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:20.279
nice to see in terms of things
you can do with the platform, fund
153
00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:24.960
badges and stuff like that, but
also somewhat promising about the future. You
154
00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:28.879
can kind of get a window into
the future especially with these younger demographics.
155
00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:33.159
That has to be somewhat uplifting for
you all. And and it's I mean
156
00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:37.960
it is to me just hearing that
absolutely. I mean, as I mentioned,
157
00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:41.240
I identify as a game man.
But the l g b t q
158
00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:48.360
I A community is not just important
to okay Cupid employees. Where seeing that
159
00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:52.879
it's really important to our datas as
well, and that is extremely uplifting And
160
00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:58.799
it makes me feel really happy to
come into my office or go to my
161
00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:01.600
living room and work for this company. You know, every single day,
162
00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:09.559
nearly of datas on our platform,
it's actually nine seven percent said that they
163
00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:15.840
care about lgbt Q plus issues and
seven intent datas say it's important that their
164
00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:22.120
match cares about this community as well. We also recently found that seven per
165
00:14:22.200 -->
00:14:30.720
cent of one and a half million
people on okay Cupid support marriage equality.
166
00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:35.120
Um. And honestly, how can
that not make you happy? Um?
167
00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:39.759
It gives me a lot of hope
for you know, the next generation that
168
00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:43.399
is coming up right behind us.
And you know, it makes me feel
169
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:52.159
really good to be working at a
brand that is really excited to support all
170
00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:54.200
these different communities. I mean,
we're supporting the very people who are on
171
00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:58.879
our platform, and we're supporting the
very people who are in our office.
172
00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:03.919
Absolutely. It's like it's almost like
you have this this company that's like doubling
173
00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:09.279
as an amazing polling system that finds
out what's important to people beyond you know,
174
00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:13.039
dating and finding love and things like
that. These, you know,
175
00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:22.759
things that will eventually shape the world
in some ways. So tell me a
176
00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:26.679
little bit about your personal origin story
as we are recording today. I'm in
177
00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:33.679
New York City and I am actually
a New Yorker born and raised. My
178
00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:37.120
parents are Brooklyn born and raised.
UM. I went to college in New
179
00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:43.320
York. I've worked in the city
since graduating, so very loyal to this
180
00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:48.799
city and UM. After graduation,
I started getting right into public relations,
181
00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:54.919
which is what I do now.
I worked at different agencies across pretty much
182
00:15:54.039 --> 00:16:03.039
every brand you probably use in your
personal life, and in spring of someone
183
00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:07.600
from Okay keep It slid into my
d m s on LinkedIn and asked if
184
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:12.840
I wanted to have a chat.
And over three years later, I am
185
00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:18.879
still here helping people find love all
around the world, and it's just been
186
00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:25.440
such a wild ride. Is this
what you saw yourself doing being a part
187
00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:30.480
of this sort of industry. Actually, no, I have like a very
188
00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:37.320
unique maybe experience with dating apps.
I didn't come out of the closet till
189
00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:44.639
after graduation, so I was almost
twenty three before I started telling people I
190
00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:55.600
was gay. And I turned to
dating apps after graduation because those were the
191
00:16:55.639 --> 00:17:03.480
only places where I could safely and
discreetly meet other gay men. And it
192
00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:08.319
was really overwhelming, and I was
really terrified, um of meeting up with
193
00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:12.480
them, because this was, you
know, something that I tried to hide
194
00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:18.759
about myself for my entire life at
that point, um, And I remember
195
00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:23.160
matching and connecting and talking to so
many different guys, and when it came
196
00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:26.799
to the point where you know,
they wanted to meet up, they wanted
197
00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:29.599
to bear a coffee or a drink
or whatever it was, I would always
198
00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:33.279
check it out. And I got
really scared. And there, you know,
199
00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:37.319
as a about to delete my dating
app, and I matched with one
200
00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:41.880
more guy and I thought, Okay, this will be the final conversation.
201
00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:45.319
Then we're deleting this and calling it
a day. And he was the one
202
00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:51.559
person I decided to meet up with
and go to dinner with, and over
203
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:57.759
eight years later, we're still together. So congratulations, thank you. I
204
00:17:57.799 --> 00:18:02.440
wasn't on dating apps for long,
but I am, I guess, one
205
00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:06.279
of the best success stories for dating
app so I'm here to say they really
206
00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:10.400
do work. Um. But on
that note, like I never thought I'd
207
00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:15.079
find myself back at a dating app
in a different capacity. Your decision to
208
00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:21.240
join okay Cupid and dating did its
history of inclusion of i'm gonna say queer
209
00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:23.920
identities, but also just lots of
people, right, diversity, it's it's
210
00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:30.960
it's history and diversity did that way
you in one direction or the other in
211
00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:33.440
terms of joining the company? Was
it a factor you cared about? Absolutely?
212
00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:37.440
I mean before I joined, when
I was you know, during the
213
00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:40.799
interview process, when I was doing
all this research about okay Cupid, and
214
00:18:40.839 --> 00:18:47.240
I found that they had really been
committed to the lgbt Q plus community for
215
00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:52.440
one for years and years. That
made me feel safe, and it made
216
00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:55.319
me feel like when I walked through
these doors, I could show up as
217
00:18:55.359 --> 00:19:00.920
my true self. I didn't have
to hide anything about me. What really
218
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:06.799
got me excited about this job was
not only seeing how inclusive of a product
219
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:11.519
it really is, but when I
walked into the office, I saw people
220
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:15.599
of all different backgrounds, and it
was actually the first time I saw an
221
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:22.880
openly queer person in the C suite
and that person is responsible for building our
222
00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:26.400
product, and that meant a lot
to me because it was the first time
223
00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:33.000
where I felt visible, I felt
seen, and I I saw someone like
224
00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:37.640
myself reflected in you know, leadership, and it made me think that could
225
00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:41.079
be me one day. How does
that focus on diversity kind of flow through
226
00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:45.359
everything that the company does. Besides
our product features that were you know,
227
00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:49.799
releasing every year, we're also making
sure that with anything that we're putting out
228
00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:53.960
from the company, that it's reflective
of our values, of our mission,
229
00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:59.000
and of the very people that are
on our platform every single day. So
230
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:04.599
in our our marketing campaigns, we
are showing interracial couples, we are showing
231
00:20:04.759 --> 00:20:11.319
queer couples. We're using models who
are people of color, We're using models
232
00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:18.640
who identify as non binary, models
who identify as transgender. Because it's really
233
00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:25.720
important to us that if we're creating
a safe space for these people on our
234
00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:29.839
app, that when they see a
commercial from Okay Cupid or they see a
235
00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:34.240
billboard from us, that they're also
seeing themselves reflected there as well. And
236
00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:40.559
sometimes people say that what we're doing
is controversial, and we really don't understand
237
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:45.400
that. It's a hard idea to
wrap our minds around that showing a queer
238
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:51.359
couple is controversial or an interracial couple
as controversial. We don't get it,
239
00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:55.079
but we're definitely not going to stop
doing it. We're going to take a
240
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:57.640
quick break, but when we come
back, we'll hear about how okay Cupid
241
00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:02.640
flip the script and their mark in
campaigns, and how their commitment to taking
242
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:14.480
a stand on important social issues has
helped the business grow. If you live
243
00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:18.160
in a major city, you probably
noticed okay cupid's marketing campaign that started back
244
00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:23.920
in January. They were big,
splashy, colorful billboards that said DTF,
245
00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:29.559
except the f didn't mean what you
thought it meant. Instead, it meant
246
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:33.160
down to fall head over heels,
and it showed two women about to kiss,
247
00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:37.400
one in the other's arms and holding
a red rose. It meant down
248
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:41.599
to fly the red eye, and
it showed an interracial couple with sleep masks
249
00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:49.119
decorated with each other's eyes. It
was extremely provocative and the idea behind that
250
00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:53.440
campaign was honestly just to make a
splash. We wanted to scream from the
251
00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:57.920
rooftops that Okay Cupid is here.
But as the years went on and they
252
00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:03.079
thought about new Mark getting campaigns,
Michael says, they wanted to tell people
253
00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:08.880
why Okay Cupid was here. So
when we were thinking about the every single
254
00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:14.440
Person campaign, and it's right in
the name, we wanted to let people
255
00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:18.759
know that we are an app for
them no matter how you identify, no
256
00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:25.039
matter what relationship you're looking for.
If you are a bookworm, we are
257
00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:27.960
for you. If you want to
be at a club at all hours of
258
00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:33.319
the night, we are for you. If you are looking for marriage right
259
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:37.880
now, that's great. If you
are interested in an open relationship, that's
260
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:41.759
awesome. Do you we want you
to do that. So it was really
261
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:48.480
all about celebrating the people and the
kinds of couples that we're seeing form on
262
00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:53.599
our app. So for those who
are listening and may not know because they
263
00:22:55.000 --> 00:23:00.839
I don't know live in an Amish
community, what does DTF mean? So
264
00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:10.359
DTF stands for down to expletive go
to bed with someone, And we decided
265
00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:19.119
to completely flip the script on what
BPF stood for. So we had images
266
00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:26.440
and billboards all over the country.
That just gave a new meeting to the
267
00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:32.920
acronym. So some of those said
down to fall head over heels, or
268
00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:38.200
down to fight about the president,
or down to fire up the kiln,
269
00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:41.440
you know, whatever you want to
do. Um. So really that was
270
00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:52.319
all about reimagining what this overtly sexual
term really meant and celebrating it in a
271
00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:56.759
brand new way that resonated with people
all around the country. It falls right
272
00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:00.319
back into what you've talked about with
kind of pushing the envelope a little bit
273
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:03.240
with everything. If you could kind
of elaborate a little bit on what it
274
00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:10.000
exactly means. This like this perspective
of reimagining what intimacy means. What do
275
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:11.640
you mean by that? Yeah,
so when you think about DTF or when
276
00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:18.119
you thought about eight years and years
ago, it was said in a way
277
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:25.960
that really shamed
people for being DTF. Um. It sort of put people
278
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:32.559
down and look down upon people who
wanted to sleep around. And we see
279
00:24:32.599 --> 00:24:34.559
no problem with that if that is
what you want to do. We always
280
00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:41.440
say that we are the platform where
you come to whether you are looking for
281
00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:45.240
someone for Saturday night or Saturday nights
for the rest of your life. And
282
00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:53.799
we were tired of DTF being this
bad word, and we just wanted to
283
00:24:53.920 --> 00:25:02.680
flip it on its head and define
it in a way that just made sense
284
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:10.039
to different people that made them proud
to b DTF. And that's sort of
285
00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:12.200
what that campaign was all about.
I love that and I feel like that
286
00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:19.119
is something that you and the company
very much UM achieved. So when you
287
00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:25.200
rolled out the more inclusive app features
that came earlier this year and the questions,
288
00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:30.359
could you tell us a little bit
about how these inclusive features UM effect
289
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:37.039
not only inclusivity within your platform and
your community, but also in determining compatibility
290
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:42.839
among users who are looking for people. If you haven't been an Okay Cupid,
291
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:49.519
these questions power our algorithm and help
us connected with people that we feel
292
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:55.079
you are most compatible with. So
when you're Honor app and you see another
293
00:25:55.200 --> 00:26:00.000
user, you will actually see a
match percentage on their profile. That is
294
00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:06.720
a number that we have calculated that
tells you how compatible you are with the
295
00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:10.440
other person based on three things.
What you said you're looking for in a
296
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:15.279
partner, so their age, their
identities, where they're from, what they
297
00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:19.440
say they are looking for a a
partner, and how you both answered the
298
00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:27.640
questions in a similar way. So
we want to make sure that, because
299
00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:30.839
you're also busy, that when we're
showing you different people on the app,
300
00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:36.319
we're showing you people that you actually
have something in common with. You know,
301
00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:41.880
if you are someone who is a
workaholic, we want to match you
302
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:47.319
with someone who is okay with that
and is not going to feel neglected by
303
00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:52.279
you. Um. If you're someone
who is really active and fitness is really
304
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:56.000
important to you, we have questions
about that too, about living a healthy
305
00:26:56.039 --> 00:27:00.200
lifestyle, and if you're a runner, you want to be my to the
306
00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:03.440
other runners, like, That's what
our questions are all about, UM,
307
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:08.119
and that's one of the biggest purposes
they serve. Another reason for our questions
308
00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:14.240
is besides being a deal breaker,
they're a dealmaker. They're also a conversation
309
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:18.440
starter. So when people look at
the match percentage that they have with someone,
310
00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:22.440
they can actually see all the questions
that they answered in common UM,
311
00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:26.920
and also the questions that they answered
but might have had different answers too.
312
00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:33.799
So that will help you realize that
this person also loves horror movies. That's
313
00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:37.759
going to tell me that, Okay, Instead of using hey or hi,
314
00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:42.079
or are you up? I'm going
to message them and ask them what's your
315
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:45.599
favorite horror movie? What are we
streaming this weekend? UM? It just
316
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:49.279
gives me a little bit something to
go off of UM and that's really how
317
00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:59.920
we think about our questions on the
app. All of these things together create
318
00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:03.640
the unique product and company that is
Okay Cupid. And it makes me wonder
319
00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:08.920
about the relationship between moral capital and
business capital. Do they work together?
320
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:15.599
And as Okay Cupid's focus on inclusivity
and diversity help the company grow absolutely,
321
00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:22.400
I think it really depends on who
you're targeting. If your target consumer is
322
00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:27.359
part of gen Z, if they
are millennials, these are the most progressive
323
00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:34.720
generations that we are seeing. They
want to purchase a product or service from
324
00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:41.640
a brand whose values really aligned with
theirs. So for us, we've seen
325
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:52.079
it be a really huge benefit to
UM for our company to be a values
326
00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:59.319
driven dating app. We've seen that
these different features, especially ones for the
327
00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:03.880
LGBT you blessed community, these questions, these different features on the profile have
328
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:07.720
really benefited our business. When we
look at the last year, we've seen
329
00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:14.000
a big increase in new users who
identify as bisexual, as non binary,
330
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:18.359
as transgender coming to our app to
look for love, and it's because of
331
00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:22.720
these features, it's because of our
campaigns, it's because of everything that we're
332
00:29:22.759
--> 00:29:30.799
doing here that people from across identities
really feel like this is a space where
333
00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:33.319
they can come to and be themselves. And if that's how they feel,
334
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:38.799
our users are only going to continue
to grow. So yes, it's it's
335
00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:45.119
absolutely benefited okay cup it in the
United States, but really all over the
336
00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:48.319
world. So as as someone who
you work for the company, but you
337
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:53.240
also have this perspective that you've been
successful with with dating apps. What is
338
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:59.640
something that you from like a user
perspective, and then also as an employee
339
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:04.119
like to see from okay Cupid in
the future. I would say that I
340
00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:11.759
would love for us to just continue
to customize and localize our app as best
341
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:18.279
as possible. I think it's just
really cool that someone in San Francisco can
342
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:22.839
have a great experience on okay Cupid, but it's very different from the experience
343
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:29.000
of someone in Tel Aviv or Mumbai
or London. I think that's awesome that
344
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:33.720
we are making sure that no matter
where you are in the world, no
345
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:37.519
matter what's important to you that when
you come onto our app, it feels
346
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:42.000
like this has been created for you
specifically, So I would just like us
347
00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:48.000
to continue down that path, which
we absolutely are. What about for for
348
00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:55.240
someone who is not currently on any
dating apps for whatever reasons? What is
349
00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:57.960
something about okay Cupid do you feel
like is the reason they should join and
350
00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:00.839
try? I I'm sorry to interrupted. Is this for me? LEVI?
351
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:08.920
This is our producer Frank And yes
that question was for them. Oh my
352
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:12.000
god, you're calling him out.
I'm here for it. I'm not on
353
00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:15.799
any dating apps, Michael at all. Right now, I don't know,
354
00:31:15.880 --> 00:31:18.799
like I've used them a bunch before, but like, yeah, how do
355
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:25.440
you convince someone like me who's who
hasn't had huge success with dating apps in
356
00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:30.000
the past? Um as a queer
person, as someone who identifies as non
357
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:34.640
binary, as someone who'ses key that
pronouns like yeah, I guess, like,
358
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:41.960
why should should I try okay Cupid? See how it works well for
359
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:47.839
you? Specifically? I would say
we're definitely the most inclusive dating app that
360
00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:52.039
you're ever
going to find. I
can say that with confidence. Um,
361
00:31:52.119 --> 00:32:00.000
But for anybody, I would encourage
you to get Okay keep it a try
362
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:05.720
because you're able to tell the app
the perfect person you're looking for. When
363
00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:09.279
you download okay Cuban and create an
account, you don't just give your name
364
00:32:09.440 --> 00:32:14.079
and a photo and call it a
day. We really make you work for
365
00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:20.519
it, so you have to answer
at least fifteen questions before you get to
366
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:22.799
get started. And what's nice about
that is if you see a question that
367
00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:28.519
doesn't resonate to you, or it's
not really relevant or even makes you uncomfortable,
368
00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:30.240
you can skip it. There's not
a single question on the app that's
369
00:32:30.279 --> 00:32:36.039
mandatory. It is mandatory to answer
fifteen of them. Um. And then
370
00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:39.759
there's all these different profile prompts that
you can fill out, so we definitely
371
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:45.400
have more robust profiles than any other
dating app. And right now, what
372
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:49.119
we hear from people sometimes when they
complain about dating is that you know,
373
00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:55.359
they're tired of swiping and going out
with someone for coffee or drinks or whatever
374
00:32:55.400 --> 00:33:01.359
the date is and finding out that
they're not compatible. But on our platform,
375
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:07.000
through our questions, we really make
sure that before you even meet up
376
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:10.920
with this person or have a phone
call with them or a FaceTime, you
377
00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:15.599
know a ton about them. You
know what their interests are what they're passionate
378
00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:22.359
about, what values um they have, and that's really important and I think
379
00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:27.400
it makes dating a lot easier.
And if you I'll just share this with
380
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:31.119
you all. But if you want
to give Okay keep it a try,
381
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:36.400
please email subscriptions. I'd okay keep
it dot com and I am more than
382
00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:40.279
happy to upgrade your account on me. Frank, make it now, literally
383
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:44.039
going to make a profile. Now
You're gonna end up with a bunch of
384
00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:45.359
people. I have nothing to lose. Yeah, I'm gonna go on like
385
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:50.039
thirty days and thirty days and then
I'll send you I'll let you know how
386
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:59.559
it goes, Michael. So listeners, if you're on the fence about online
387
00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:04.039
dating, if you're exhausted by the
endless swiping and profiles that tell you nothing,
388
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:07.640
give Okay Cupid to try. If
Frank can do it, so can
389
00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:09.880
you. And if you have something
to say about dating online as a queer
390
00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:14.239
person, we'd love to hear from
you. Send us an email at Pride
391
00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:22.360
at straw hut media dot com.
Pride is a production of straw Hut Media.
392
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:25.000
If you like the show, please
leave us a rating and review.
393
00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:30.320
On Apple Podcasts Spotify or wherever you
listen to podcasts. Then follow us on
394
00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:34.760
TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and snapchat at Pride and tune in
395
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:37.519
weekly for more episodes. Be sure
to share this episode with your friends and
396
00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:42.920
subscribe for more stories from amazing queer
people. If you'd like to connect with
397
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:46.480
me, you can follow me everywhere
at Levi Chambers. Pride is produced by
398
00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:51.639
Me, Maggie Bowls, Frank Driscoll, Ryan Tillottson, and Brandon Marlowe.
399
00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:53.320
Edited by Maggie Bowls and Daniel Ferrara