Think practicing without a license is a good idea? Think no one will find out? You might want to think again.

Join Eric and I as we discuss the recent sentencing of an unlicensed individual who claimed to be an Architect. He’s been convicted of several felonies and is now going to jail.

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The post Episode 39: Not Really Architect Goes to Jail for Practicing Without a License appeared first on Architect Exam Prep.

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00:00:00JRE podcast the season 1 episode 10
00:00:12inspiring you today so you can fulfill your dreams I'll be coming tomorrow
00:00:23hello hello welcome back to another episode of the Harry Potter cast season 1 episode 10 and Eric just asked me how are we season 1 what was your question we've been doing this 5 years how is this still season 1 this is the longest season I've ever experienced you know what here's the reason we haven't we haven't been consistent so the idea was I wanted to break it in two seasons but we already had I think about 30 episodes out over the course of a couple years and I don't want to go back in title those season 1 and then now we'd be in season 2 whatever it is so
00:01:09so your ear solution let me just get this straight Your solution of being inconsistent was too inconsistent Lee net number the podcast episodes that does I correct that is absolutely correct I think we stop with episode 29 I think episode 30 became season one episode one yeah by the way we're on a roll over like 5 weeks in a row and and and podcasting so this is good so the end of the year maybe we'll take a little break around Christmas and in January will start season 2 good and we have actually a great topic to talk about today and I actually didn't introduce her co-host Eric were freed up and up in Portland today in his new house
00:01:59a fake architect Goes to Jail which is really interesting because we don't really hear of Architects going to jail
00:02:09that we wouldn't do well as yet we're not bills for jail, you know what's interesting about this what we're going to talk about it is is are our duties as a licensed architect and you know that there are a lot of people out there who claim to be architects in or not and this guy he was charged in April and this is back in the news on architect magazine the other day because it looks like he got sentenced and and we got some things to say about that article itself but this occurred in New York and the New York attorney general
00:03:01Eric Schneiderman's office dub the investigation operation vandelay Industries and for those of you who may not know or have any idea what that means then delay was George Costanza he wanted to be an architect me sometimes told people he was an architect and what art vandelay was his was his pseudo name right I remember 35 on the TV show Seinfeld George Costanza's character always wished you would mean architect in and of course in in true Costanza fashion he never actually studied or went to school or anything he just when you meet women he'd say yeah I'm an architect and yeah vandelay Industries that's my company and and so here the Attorney General of the state of New York
00:04:00found found this guy named Paul Newman up in Troy New York who had been 4 years since Lee stamping drawings with a fake stamp with a fake number that I guess he made up 17. 7 years over dozens of buildings in around Troy New York and so what a perfect name for for a guy who is pretending being architect but the vandelay industries are operation vandelay right so what's interesting to is this investigation went on for 2 years but a couple of things and as we know the architecture laws are a state-by-state basis so each state has its own set of laws that we practice under I'm not familiar with all 50 states I have a feeling they're all running along the same kind of lines in terms of calling yourself an architect California
00:04:57is the one that you know Eric and I are most familiar with in terms of the California The Architects Practice Act which is put out by the California Architects board and they are very adamant about misusing the term architect essentially misleading the public they get license when you're not about it I I had a former employee who was apparently calling something Architects the California Architects board had an investigation they they included me in an investigation cuz he used to work for me
00:05:37but they did the investigation and it didn't take two years it took them a few weeks what's there and investigate they found the that I think they I think they slap his hand to give him a little fine or something but that was it do you realize how bad this had to have been for the New York Board of Architects Arctic sport or whatever they call it to refer it to the attorney general that means that they could they did the investigation exactly okay well we find this guy's not even paying it and and so it had to escalate it's almost like going you know case going to the Supreme Court this this guy was so he had to have been so blatant about it that it would have gotten escalated all the way to attorney general for their office to investigate yeah that's exactly it did this is like the Supreme Court in terms of basically the New York Architects board turning it over to the attorney general Sue's normally they would just do their own investigation as you said and you know slap a fine on you the California Architects board is very clear
00:06:37and what they call their practice act which is lays out the regulations of practicing architecture in California but if you are not licensed in the state of California you can't use the word architect architecture architectural and I assume that's probably the case in a lot of the other states if not all the other states so if you're not licensed in that state you can't provide architectural drawings about that in San Francisco which is the tech Capital the country
00:07:11I have friends who can't call themselves Architects because their you know still in IDP or still haven't finished her exam but I have dozens of other friends who have the word architect in their title because their software Architects their information Architects the tech industry has has kind of appropriated the name architect may use it to their own end all the time and it just further adds to the confusion out in the public
00:07:40it does in the same thing with you know everybody thinks dr. Dre's is a doctor nobody acting this right right now I'm suffering I'm an architect it's like you're not right stop it. And I think I put I put the blame of that on the AIA I think that is something they could ask washed you know whenever that first came about the software architect cuz they they could have used a different term in with the the area and all the money and power supposedly they have the fact that they didn't squash and now it's too late it's did send any extra standard you know if you got it if you search architect you know on some of these job sites you can get all the software architect job listings you know LinkedIn to look for a job you type in the word architect and you know something with C plus plus comes up it's it's kind of ridiculous
00:08:40for this this person sent me this email they found somebody like on Craigslist is in California advertising their services as a life architect
00:08:52finally a life coach right that person he contacted the California Architects board and the Architects board responded with that they're fine to use that term because they are not they are not misleading the public into thinking that they're providing architectural services so it's because it was completely different field there's nothing it didn't bother that California Architects board as if it's not bad enough to be a life coach on top of that so then add insult to injury by then being alive are Clif bars going to act right double double insult there it really is going on for 2 years
00:09:39there in 58 count so this is what snyderman said in a tweet I'm in dating alleged fake architect Paul Newman on 58 counts as a result of our operation vandelay Industries that's a big deal I think you're right Eric the fact that the New York Board review this guy obviously did their own investigation and said well he's he's out of the norm you know enough to me 50 accounts on me in 58 unique instances of him committing the same crime over and over again right it's like if you got 50 accounts of murder you would have killed probably 58 people right it could be the amount of projects He was involved in like eat each incident because he was misleading he was being a fake architect in each project so then maybe that's the 58 counts over the 7258 projects well they that the guy's name is the the fake art EX name is Paul Newman which just
00:10:35just for the makes the story quite surreal and then he was illegally signing off on plans on more than a hundred projects it says which it's it's interesting I'm going back to the 70s Paul Newman obviously the great actor but but do you know Paul Newman played an architect in the Towering Inferno he was the architect and Steve McQueen was the fire fire chief that was one of the first for Trails of an architect can you know architect is hero in the in the mass media he knows it was at and Mike Brady in The Brady Bunch then I'll write
00:11:13okay so we don't get into detail of the counts so the show this article in Ark paper.com this came out in April so that is is when I guess the investigation concluded and they they announced they announce the 58 counts says Newman is facing charges in Three Counties in his been accused of defraud and construction firms businesses and municipalities over the course of 7 years the projects He legally worked on pretending to be registered and licensed we're mostly housing ranging from townhouses to senior living communities which by the way probably explains why of those hundred projects only 58 where were violations because he may he might have done a lot of two or three story buildings that didn't require an architect stamp to begin with exactly depending exactly that how New York words there when you don't need a license to building types you don't need a license
00:12:13exactly at what's interesting
00:12:17you know he was paid
00:12:20$200,000 / 7 years so what is that about $30,000 a year so this I don't know what this was in the guy worked on over a hundred buildings and he only made that's 30 grand a year for a hundred building set right right he was just sentenced this month but not only is he facing up to anywhere from 2 to 7 years he's got to pay $115,000 restitution fine so he's this is not
00:12:57clearly it's not way to get rich and then getting caught is no way to get rich righties he's I mean because life is pretty pretty much in shambles this point I would think if you're going to do something illegal again I try and I like my sleep at night so I like to keep everything on the up-and-up but if you're going to try and do something illegal I would at least go where the the risk to reward is greater right there. There's no reward did what this guy was doing you know something yeah well what's interesting here and I don't think attorney if you're going to pretend to be something you know 3 months right
00:13:45he what's interesting here is that all his his projects went to the plan check process they were inspected by the municipalities they are all up to code according to the article which actually is not a surprise you know he was obviously an experienced person I mean he was experienced in the field to get this work done he just simply didn't do the area to become licensed well that that also shows the nature of the crime right heat the crime was
00:14:20misrepresenting yourself to the public is not as a licensed architect the crime wasn't that he built buildings that could fall down her people so it raises this ethical conundrum is what he did wrong
00:14:36well yeah we are black and white guy but but
00:14:41he built buildings made people happy charges client a fee they paid him and it was all of the code P we didn't do it alone he had contractors around a building inspectors around me clients around them now they probably didn't know that he was not really license didn't check but he had to see it he has to fix am so to them everything looks on the up-and-up but ethical I'm not talking week late but just a sickly is what he did wrong yes but to your point it is interesting year right but but to your this ethical Point let's let's talk about this for a second a second you know I don't know anything about this guy other than these two articles were talking about but obviously he he kept ashrae going for 7 years
00:15:38projects were built as a result the past plan check the past you know Building Inspections clearly the guy knew what he was doing so is he in a better position to provide the services then a newly licensed architect you know first year just their newly licensed you know who would you rather hire right
00:16:03write the guy the guy that's prolific who builds you know a hundred buildings and 7 years or the person who has their fresh license and never really used it exactly that I mean I think that's that's what's interesting here but we we've talked about this another podcast you know when you might know somebody in your own firm that they're just not on the architect track they might be amazing project managers but for whatever reason they just never got their stuff together to take the are and they have all these reasons that they're not doing it and and you know they probably have no desire to go work on their own they're happy in their you know with as an employee
00:16:44well here's the thing how do you end up
00:16:48in the situation where
00:16:51what would happen did he did basically he was was he working for somebody else I was I was trying to imagine the scenario of how you can end up in this situation with you your stamping 100 projects that's a lot of projects right right working on
00:17:08you know at least has architect of record for a hundred projects meaning that even if you find out the work to draft people sit still an immense amount of work and and in the same breath you're telling me that this guy was too busy to
00:17:22take 7 test exactly over 7 years by the way man he was it that took you 7 years so he could have done it what's interesting to is this is this is in Troy New York where is Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or RPI you know one of the best architecture programs in the country terrible super technical school is RPI is is in his hometown so he he was probably using RPI student interns for all we know we know and I'll probably everybody obviously believe he was an architect and I remember when I when I get my first license
00:18:04it was my New York license I was in California and I went to like engineering stamps.com or something like that to to order the license you know any kind of fill it out and I'm like well I don't even they don't require anything like there's no proof of anything you just you just fill the thing in pay your money 20 bucks and they send you a stamp and anybody can do it by somebody gave me was don't put the expiration date on the stamp cousin you have to buy a new stamp every two years so you put your name your license number and then X and then for me it's my birthday is in August so my Explorations in August so I just took 8 dash underscore and with my physical Sam I could write in the year so I've had the same stand for 20 years so then you'll appreciate this story because in and what we're talking about is when you when you get license whatever state you are I think every state has every two years you have to renew your license so that's why artists
00:19:04about the stamp now I just mentioned the stamp is like 20 bucks you'll appreciate this Eric cuz I tell this to everybody who who comes to the CSE seminar
00:19:14I said engineer's and I guess now I have to put you in this category will have the line for the expiration date cuz engineer's are cheap they don't want to spend the 20 bucks every two years it's not 20 bucks it's like with shipping it's like it's probably 25 so I'd say for the 20 okay 25 bucks every two years I will get the stamp that has my my renewal date on it because I don't want to go through every sheet adding a little number..... I was like no I don't want my time is more valuable than that so it's funny that you you are the one you have it you have had the same stand for 20 years you're the engineer I talked about the crazy part I never used anymore it's all in the cat
00:20:03the song It's a block in in AutoCAD and so the anchor stamp is in a drawer I mean we never use the actual physical is very rare that I have to actually physically stamp you know I hadn't I had an old boss where I learned a lot in Boston my first real architecture job his signature was a stamp
00:20:26yes I'm some building apartments one except that it wasn't him signing it but it's wet Sam's
00:20:52see you want to talk before we get it before we get in the next article of me just finish up here so 4949 here's the following charges grand larceny in the second degree 9 counts of forgery in the second degree one count of scheme to defraud in the first degree three counts of unauthorized practice of a profession and 13 towns of offering a false instrument for filing in the first degree now here's the kicker all of these are felonies. That's why the New York board kicked it up to the Attorney General's office cuz he was he was committing felonies basically oftentimes you know selling a kilo of cocaine is a felony isn't it
00:21:42that two felonies are so that's the serious they're serious crimes he's in his mugshot he's at he's already in the prison scrubs do you see there yeah yeah and so you're telling me he's going to be in jail he's going to be in line at the cafeteria with the metal the metal trays with no knives
00:22:07By the way everything I know a person I know from Oz in line and the guys like what do you what do you think 4 is it murder rate what are you in 400 I design hundred buildings and stamp them with a made-up stamp like that's what really exactly convicted felons that that doesn't go off your record you can take until a convicted felons you lose your voting rights you can never around you can never own a gun there's probably some other things in there yeah convicted felon that's that's the worst thing that's always on your record voted for Trump or Hillary be interesting to know that one alright so by the way I often times it's a misdemeanor to to mislead the public or practice without a license at happens California Architects board base to do the printed newsletter
00:23:07that's online but usually there's you know every quarter comes out there's usually a dozen cases of infractions violations of what they call the Architects Practice Act and it's it's not exactly this kind of stuff but it is you know people who are caught practicing without a license or they're they're caught misleading the public providing architectural services when they're not licensed and their misdemeanors are usually find $1,000 a slap on the wrist not not sadly actually not a big deal I'm I remember when I started out on my own office you know Craigslist is one of the places I looked at in this is an LA there was a lot of drafters providing you know architectural service for residential homes you know and they can do it at half the cost of a lot licensed architect or less and I was competing with a lot of those you know those types of when I show up to you know
00:24:07job meeting her job interviews and stuff like that so those are all misdemeanors they still happen you know in a few I've seen is where Architects get fined because they like they let their license lapse you know which is silly so those are all the category misdemeanors you know cab is a small California Architects board small office they don't go around policing this stuff might guess a lot of this stuff and all the in a lot of these states happens because either Architects are turning other architects in or homeowner is have an issue with the architect the relationship goes south so then they find out woohoo they what's the remedy and they call it they contact their states Architects board and that's how the Imagine that's how a lot of stuff gets found out former employee he apparently was doing some work and pissed off a client and they
00:25:05complain to the guard shack sport exactly by the way it's it's also she needed this this person Paul Newman
00:25:15if I didn't find any record of this it's something he had a license and he just let it expire which which could from a single point of view you would at least argue wood would at least make sense okay he had a license he already gone to the process of becoming licensed and he just you know forgot to pay the bill and it expired and he would kick it to the stabbing this guy invented a stamp made up a number
00:25:37Emma Stampy drawings that's very different story I think what I think is interesting to in this story is they investigated him for 2 years I'm actually surprised there's no there wasn't any accomplices you know in this and he obviously didn't even try and get his architect friends to sign off on drawings otherwise they would have been you know probably named in this and accessories you know committing crime basically I think so that's exactly it seems like a lot of time and resources to investigate this one guy who's not licensed you know we again we don't know he's not a menace to society
00:26:27you know the the heat design / code right so it's interesting but but that that that segues into the article that just came out
00:26:41architect architect magazine which is buy it by the author Aaron betsky and we'll get in the article here in a little bit I think it's just whining it's funny because I didn't actually know who the guy was I just said all this article is kind of whiny came out on September 21st I think because of it because the charges were announced in April and then he must have just had the court and all that stuff so now you know that the sentence was handed down but the Articles kind of whiny it doesn't even really give much information on the charges he just the guy kind of wine so that I'm I'm mentioning this to Eric and then Eric says will you know who Aaron betsky is by the way not even a licensed architect but no I'll throw it to you Eric I first met Aaron betsky he used to be the head of architecture for sfmoma
00:27:34and he's he's a he's a very smart guy but the guys are professional critic he's been in architectural critic his entire life as far as I know he hasn't really built anything and you know I always have an issue with a Critic who complains about architecture but doesn't really know what it takes two to Build architecture now he's currently headed to Frank Lloyd Wright School Tallahassee of architecture which which I applied for didn't get so I can maybe I maybe I'm upset that he is my dream job but but and you know Aaron's in Notorious Wonder that's kind of what he does for a living it's some weed out of this and then the tone of his architect article is and he work is Frank gehry for a while to yeah it's the tone of his article is more of them
00:28:21you know it's you know hey what's the big deal he at least his buildings are better than most of the crap that license architecture building that was basically the toners article yeah it was the last paragraph will get into other paragraphs but as paragraph where he says and I'm going to read but work what worries me more than the presence of a few shady and crafty operator such as Newman is bad Architects under the cloak of lice and Jerry commit crimes against our Landscapes and lives on a daily basis those are the ones that should really go to jail What A pompous ass I mean you know that this cloak of licensure obviously this guy doesn't know what it takes to get license number one and he doesn't respect you know the process by the way cloak of licensure is the name of my new band
00:29:21attacked at certainly certainly not and I could see if I could see that point no absolutely and and we've talked about that at length before but to basically dismiss what we've all seen examples of bad architecture in this guy is a professional critic so I understand or if not understand I can see where he's coming from where he wants to let these Shady guys slide and he wants to put these architects who designed bad buildings in jail this kind of what he saying well that's it that's always the joke especially in San Francisco where space is so tight there's a building at the foot of the ferry building and I I guess I should name who The Architects are but another thing was just being built was gonna text you be arrested
00:30:15right so ugly well we've all said that we've all seen that I guess the tone that that bothers me in that last paragraph is that he's you know this guy 49 count all felonies and he's just like all there's a few of those Shady guys maybe we should just dumb you know give them a pass it's like now that's you know our profession the Integrity of our profession needs to be upheld you know we can't do anything about bad architect architect who designed bad buildings but we can do something about these Shady guy text me this guy committed illegal Acts
00:30:55yes and it was what's the other thing the best key points out in his article is had even license would have changed the outcome leave the building still would have been built their face they probably would have looked the same would have changed anything
00:31:12right well I mean there is this what I think what best he's doing is he's complaining two different issues the one about the need for licensure and you know my advice
00:31:24you know my advice for people like this is just go get your license that you notice
00:31:30if you're really that worried about it's not
00:31:33yeah 6 months of your life it's a year of your life if you really want to focus and do it and it said What I Hear is constant excuses I don't have time to study I'm so busy at work
00:31:43and then I said what you do last weekend Oh do last weekend was awesomely we have played at 8 hours ago and then I want I stayed home and watched The Walking Dead for sure all night long and then slept all day Sunday
00:31:57right but but you're out you're too busy to site now you're just to be to want to disrupt any of your Glamorous Life where you work hard during the week and then you goof off all weekend it's about priorities really it is about priorities and there's no reason Paul Newman couldn't have got his license it be interesting to know what if you want to architecture school or if he just learned all this on the job there's another line from betski's article in the middle here it says of course of course there is the ethical issue of somebody claiming to be what he is not but what disturbs me is the fact that from what I can tell from the few photographs online and from what I read in the press the work Newman did was neither better no worse than what some Architects were license produce on a daily basis
00:32:48here's what we should do we should do two things we should ask Aaron if he wants to be on this podcast I'll let you handle that cuz I've been to and too we should send this guy told them in a free set of Divisions and then see if he uses it passes speaking study that in jail although although you know what I think now that is a as a convicted felon I don't think he I don't think he's going to be able to get licensed in the west side totally went out of my head
00:33:28should I email after I think I don't know but I think if you're an architect or license professional doctor lawyer whatever and if you are a convicted felon
00:33:42I'm pretty sure that's grounds for taking away your license and it might be on a case-by-case individual basis but you know a felon is selling is the worst worst charging app and it hits going to hide you for life email that we got this week that guy that he use your California materials to study and he only and he's already in older guy
00:34:13any only two very limited window and he was telling us that he was setting for 6 hours a day
00:34:19cuz he had he know he had to pass and there was there was no way he was going to pass and and you and I have talked about this before that just by talking to people we can tell if they're going to pass your not right and you could see the tone of his email he had that eye of the tiger man he was like I'm going to said whatever it takes almost 36 hours a day I've only got 3 weeks before my test I'm going to crank it out on the do it there's no way I'm going to fail and he went in with that mindset and that mindset was probated in everything that he did it and how we approach the question he did he didn't give up eating at the feet underneath and he passed and his any sense it's nice email saying hey we passed you know I passed and and you know you was talking about how your he heard your audio in his head while he was studying but I mean if I listen to you for 6 hours a day which I think I do probably do you know but but
00:35:10you know it was I don't buy the excuse that I was too busy to get his license he didn't he didn't make it a priority he didn't get it he was too busy stamping 100 buildings to to get it basically no it is bizarre that this guy just into that in in here's the sad thing as we talked about earlier he obviously was good at what he did being able to carry this charade for 7 years
00:35:37he was confident he I'm assuming he was confident because of what he was able to do for 7 years he just didn't have the license like he didn't he just didn't complete the exams or take the exams yeah but every time you put that stamp on the drawing that's that's the Felon that had a completely made-up number
00:35:58did not did not have to
00:36:02you know where am I didn't I didn't need anybody like oh I hope it on your card this time you wouldn't get caught this time yeah and he's in Troy New York or RPI is I mean he's got and I like the people are watching yeah I wonder or it's just in his mind he justified it that all I don't need it I mean I would be interested maybe we can get him on the podcast that's who I would like to interview Paul Newman from jail exactly that would be our first that would be a first episode from jail so says you know a license to practice is not a guarantee that you'll be a good architect what it does guarantee is that you have taken a series of tests to prove that you understand codes basic organizational inside design principles and know how to manage The Business of Being a professional architect that is all true we all know that
00:36:56I think 5.0 Oz is I think it's worth finding out as more line to the practice in the real world but I think more importantly is is what this whole process is it it's the Integrity of the profession whether you agree with ncarb and how they measure your minister the test or not you can whine about him all day it's not going to help you pass the area just put your head down and get them done enjoying the Architects Club it's like those candidates that I have two calls with and they go this is all bull crap and you know the entire questions are stupid and I hate this processed and I say to them you're not going to pass you got the wrong attitude your your whining about it's not going to change their your reality of this is a hurdle in front of you and yeah you don't like the ncarb test a lot of people don't you disagree with the only for this and you think you're yeah but until you accept that this is what I have to do you're not going to pass that's exactly it
00:37:56accept it and obviously Paul never did he never gets accepted the past like hey maybe I should just you know take these exams in and be done with it this this one is interesting that Betsy says that leaves the business of promoting and vouchsafing good architecture as opposed to confident building design to Educators in Tucson Association such as the AIA and carbon now and then he says the AA performed its main task be on ensuring ensuring good insurance rates through advocacy and public education and including this publication which is its official Journal it's interesting to me that he gives like this nod to the AIA that they're doing something so great but he's licensed Architects he is writing for their magazine after all right now so yeah so he kisses you kisses the butt of a little bit and then in the peace while slamming
00:38:54basically slamming in carbon and DNA be busy through this kind of female $2 word in there I know was it a real word it's a word from Middle English which word to Grant someone something in a gracious or condescending manner that guy will and also the tone of this article says it does not appear that Newman was an AI a member so we do not know if he could have benefited from these efforts whatever efforts those are like the AIA some you know insurance policy as in Golf Magazine right you know it's it's it's it's interesting I think the big sadness we talked about this is that the guy just didn't take the area and get license that that's the whole sadness you know nobody wants to see anybody in a situation like this this is serious these aren't misdemeanors these are felonies that are going to affect the rest of his life
00:39:54all because he didn't want to take a few months and take some exams yeah
00:40:04I'm so curious as to the psychology behind it you know that I can. I can understand it sounds like the Bernie Madoff situation where okay you been lying for years so you keep lying to me kind of sad but how did you initially start the LIE right
00:40:23how to get to the point where he's like I have to order a stamp in and let's see I can't make it 1 2 3 4 5 let me make the number you know anybody did some random number I had to pick a number he had order stabbed he had it and he had to do these efforts instead of just saying oh yeah you know what I'm not licensed but I get an engineer to stamp it right there was some part of him that that that was the initial the initial crime that led to all these others and the fact that this carried on for 7 years and there was no accomplices which means early on he didn't even try and lean on somebody else or get somebody else and wear whatever it it's almost like he was alone while just from the beginning again we're speculating based on these couple articles we know but the fact that there was no accomplices means like this is a story he created seven years ago
00:41:18yeah yeah and just stayed went in at so well we will pick up will pick a lighter topic for next week I promise and don't worry don't worry if you you know if you take the Aries you get licensed I can't promise that'll keep you out of jail cuz I don't know what else you might do in your personal life but at least you won't you won't dumb have a 2-year investigation against you for providing Services misleading the public they are not license if you're going to mimic up a professional don't take architel yet to pick attorney that's so funny is I actually before we go I had a friend had a friend and I spend time with this guy and a cabin all week and we're off the group of us were up there he was a doctor and he he taught at a medical school
00:42:17and I can't remember his name but it was like you know six months later I found out hanging member that guy Steve that we had up at the cabin I'd like a really nice guy just found out he's not a doctor at all he got fired from the University and all this other stuff happened he was basically a pathological liar his girlfriend didn't even know his girlfriend thought he was a doctor
00:42:40well I probably why she was dating in the first place yeah exactly and you seem like a very normal guy and you know we had good conversation and Minnie hat he got a job at some medical school University he wasn't a doctor at all not even close that crazy so it's people do exist got him I want to have him over for dinner and just take his brain right he's the Paul Newman of the doctor's so doctors that's there I mean that's like that's enough people could die right in front of you I don't know if he's performing surgery or what you know but then he pretends to be a doctor pretend to be an attorney I just don't know how people can sleep with themselves at night
00:43:25well yeah but even Leo in the movie anyway he passed the bar exam so at least he took the truck alrighty we'll have a happier topic coming next week on behalf of the air Corey freed my name is David Doucette this is been the are podcast and we'll see you next time
00:43:48thanks for listening to the area
00:43:54to take exam prep. Calm and check out our other podcast episodes
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