Full Transcript for No Evidence, No Problem: GOP Votes To Impeach (Live from San Jose!)

Republicans, and that's 74 00:04:06.810 --> 00:04:10.229 exactly what this House is. And so, like what I would, 75 00:04:10.270 --> 00:04:11.689 I would go out every day. I would say, here 76 00:04:11.710 --> 00:04:13.650 are the things I'm working on. Here's what they're doing instead. 77 00:04:14.050 --> 00:04:15.610 I would do press conferences. I mean, if I really 78 00:04:15.650 --> 00:04:17.829 wanted to play a big card, I would do a joint, 79 00:04:17.889 --> 00:04:19.509 I would call for a joint session of Congress, go 80 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:21.879 up there, say, here are the things, here's my agenda 81 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:24.839 to lower your costs and raise your wages. And what 82 00:04:24.860 --> 00:04:26.699 are you doing instead of that? Take them on, make 83 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:29.399 them pay for this. This is a huge political. 84 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:33.529 Mistake on their part and be aggressive about it. 85 00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:37.689 Like the, there's, I think a big, huge fight with 86 00:04:37.709 --> 00:04:41.269 these people, with these Republicans, would do Joe Biden so 87 00:04:41.310 --> 00:04:43.790 much political good right now, and they've given him a gift, 88 00:04:43.810 --> 00:04:44.490 and he should take it. 89 00:04:46.029 --> 00:04:46.410 Well said. 90 00:04:46.649 --> 00:04:50.379 Speaking of gifts, let's watch a clip of CNN's Jake 91 00:04:50.389 --> 00:04:54.379 Tapper interviewing the Republican House Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer. 92 00:04:54.680 --> 00:05:00.079 And my concern is that Weiss may have indicted Hunter 93 00:05:00.100 --> 00:05:04.240 Biden to protect him from having to be deposed in the. 94 00:05:04.649 --> 00:05:06.149 House Oversight Committee on Wednesday. 95 00:05:06.170 --> 00:05:07.810 He indicted him to protect him. 96 00:05:08.470 --> 00:05:10.540 Yes, the classic rubric. 97 00:05:10.980 --> 00:05:13.879 He indicted him to protect him. I got it. Well, look, 98 00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:17.360 this whole, Jake, this whole thing's been about a cover-up. 99 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:18.339 You know, you've got two serious concerns. 100 00:05:18.779 --> 00:05:19.360 That's why he. 101 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:26.470 Indicted him to protect him, to cover it up. I 102 00:05:26.529 --> 00:05:29.350 love Jake, man. Wow. I love not having to deal 103 00:05:29.389 --> 00:05:30.879 with Jake as a flack. Love it. 104 00:05:30.949 --> 00:05:34.069 Obviously, no president wants to get impeached, but history suggests 105 00:05:34.089 --> 00:05:37.449 that the political impact of impeachment is not necessarily a given, right? 106 00:05:38.209 --> 00:05:44.310 Yeah. I mean, look, the crimes are supposed to lead 107 00:05:44.370 --> 00:05:47.329 to the impeachment. The impeachment isn't supposed to lead to 108 00:05:47.350 --> 00:05:50.709 the crimes. So they fucked that up. They got the 109 00:05:50.769 --> 00:05:56.439 order wrong. Huge blunder. You know, I do think that, like, 110 00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:59.879 the point Dan's making is, like, really important because I 111 00:05:59.920 --> 00:06:02.420 think people have a lot of assumptions or they've sort 112 00:06:02.439 --> 00:06:05.269 of taken a lot of conventional wisdom about what impeachment means, 113 00:06:05.329 --> 00:06:08.110 but impeachment means exactly what we fight to make it mean. 114 00:06:08.149 --> 00:06:10.069 I think there are people that say, oh, you know, 115 00:06:10.810 --> 00:06:13.779 Bill Clinton's approval ratings went up, but you could, you know, 116 00:06:13.819 --> 00:06:18.660 tell that to President Al Gore. You know, Donald Trump, 117 00:06:18.740 --> 00:06:21.160 you know, oh, all of these accusations, impeachment, it washed 118 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:23.379 right off of him. Did it? Or did those weeks 119 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:25.910 of attention hurt him politically in that moment? And we 120 00:06:25.930 --> 00:06:30.889 have the memories of fucking goldfish. My, I think that 121 00:06:30.910 --> 00:06:34.610 there's sort of, There's two ways to think about it, 122 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:36.639 and I think one actually does have a pitfall that 123 00:06:36.660 --> 00:06:39.990 we should just be cognizant of, which is we should 124 00:06:40.019 --> 00:06:42.470 not be in the position as Democrats of defending kind 125 00:06:42.490 --> 00:06:45.990 of quotidian corruption in Washington. Like, I don't think there's 126 00:06:46.069 --> 00:06:49.149 anything to be bashful about when you just say, look, 127 00:06:49.170 --> 00:06:52.149 Hunter Biden seems like he's quite a sleaze, but they're 128 00:06:52.250 --> 00:06:56.220 trying to attack Joe Biden for committing the sin of 129 00:06:56.279 --> 00:06:58.019 loving his fuck-up son. And I think a lot of 130 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:01.879 Americans have fuck-up kids, and they have fuck-up relatives, and 131 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:05.750 we all know... That it's the act of a good 132 00:07:05.850 --> 00:07:08.250 person to try to find a way to love that person, 133 00:07:08.569 --> 00:07:10.689 even when they're fucking up and dragging your name through 134 00:07:10.709 --> 00:07:14.329 the mud. I'd rather be that than anyone going out 135 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:16.459 of their way to pretend that some of the shit 136 00:07:16.500 --> 00:07:19.180 that goes on in D.C., including Republican members of Congress 137 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:21.160 and what their spouses do and what their family members 138 00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:23.360 do to trade off the names of their own politicians, 139 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:28.649 I think is worth keeping in mind. Beyond that, you know, 140 00:07:28.670 --> 00:07:31.110 Hunter Biden thinks he's going to have some kind of 141 00:07:31.149 --> 00:07:33.149 moment in a press conference where he's like, have you 142 00:07:33.189 --> 00:07:36.759 no decency, sir? I'm not sold on that. I'm not 143 00:07:36.819 --> 00:07:38.759 excited for his public hearing

any more than I was 144 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:43.480 excited about his private hearing. I want to say something. 145 00:07:45.500 --> 00:07:47.050 Is this the joke back there? 146 00:07:47.060 --> 00:07:50.009 We finally found the joke. He's not ready to tell. 147 00:07:50.310 --> 00:07:54.300 Coward. Here's what I would say. Look. I would say 148 00:07:54.339 --> 00:07:56.779 to Hunter Biden, the same thing I would say to 149 00:07:56.819 --> 00:08:00.899 George W. Bush or Hitler, which is stick to painting. 150 00:08:08.689 --> 00:08:09.990 Leaving space to cut that. 151 00:08:10.370 --> 00:08:14.670 Well, there's a piece of this that's like purely financial, right? 152 00:08:14.730 --> 00:08:16.569 And then there's the piece of this that's about Hunter 153 00:08:16.589 --> 00:08:19.230 Biden's addictions. And he's been very honest about his struggles 154 00:08:19.750 --> 00:08:22.509 with addiction. And I think if Republicans had the discipline 155 00:08:22.529 --> 00:08:25.930 to focus solely on the financial piece of this in 156 00:08:25.949 --> 00:08:28.470 the way he potentially used his father's position in office 157 00:08:28.930 --> 00:08:31.170 to make money. That would be one thing, but we 158 00:08:31.189 --> 00:08:33.250 know they don't have any discipline and they're attacking him 159 00:08:33.289 --> 00:08:36.029 for addiction problems. And I don't know anybody, there's nobody 160 00:08:36.049 --> 00:08:37.620 in this country who doesn't have a friend or a 161 00:08:37.649 --> 00:08:40.039 relative or someone they care about generally who hasn't struggled 162 00:08:40.059 --> 00:08:40.519 with addiction. 163 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:42.200 So I do think that's a real risk for Republicans. 164 00:08:42.620 --> 00:08:45.879 But Adisu, so even if we concede that getting impeached 165 00:08:45.899 --> 00:08:48.259 during an election year is not ideal, Donald Trump has 166 00:08:48.460 --> 00:08:52.220 been charged in four criminal cases. He was impeached twice, 167 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:56.019 by the way, Do you think voters will see the 168 00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:58.120 criminal cases as materially different? 169 00:08:59.419 --> 00:09:03.159 Well, first, I will concede that nobody wants to get impeached, 170 00:09:03.179 --> 00:09:04.870 but I'm not going to concede that this impeachment is 171 00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:08.250 actually going to happen. You know, we only need three 172 00:09:08.269 --> 00:09:11.710 or four Republicans to realize it's political suicide to vote 173 00:09:11.730 --> 00:09:15.429 for this, for them to... The article's never to actually 174 00:09:15.809 --> 00:09:18.429 come to fruition. So this inquiry is going to take place. 175 00:09:18.549 --> 00:09:21.269 I think, to your point, Dan, they're actually... There will 176 00:09:21.289 --> 00:09:22.870 be a moment for the president to stand up there 177 00:09:22.889 --> 00:09:25.850 in the State of the Union whenever it comes towards 178 00:09:25.870 --> 00:09:28.750 the beginning of the year, but I'm not sure it's 179 00:09:28.769 --> 00:09:32.809 actually gonna happen. With that said, there is something materially 180 00:09:32.909 --> 00:09:36.649 different between the Trump indictments and this Biden impeachment inquiry, 181 00:09:36.690 --> 00:09:37.960 and that is that one. 182 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:41.700 Is bullshit and the other is actually based on facts. 183 00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:47.340 And the reality, I think, here is that the Republicans 184 00:09:47.360 --> 00:09:50.730 are trying to blur the line between reality and fantasy, 185 00:09:50.870 --> 00:09:52.379 and we can't allow them to do that. 186 00:09:52.899 --> 00:09:55.179 We can't allow them to do it because talking. 187 00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:58.769 About this and talking about indictments and impeachments together is 188 00:09:58.870 --> 00:10:01.940 actually going to serve their purposes, as it were. And 189 00:10:02.519 --> 00:10:04.379 they know that this is bullshit, right? You showed the 190 00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:08.740 clip from Chuck Grassley. I took a quote that I 191 00:10:08.779 --> 00:10:11.639 pulled up here from Chief Clown Matt Gaetz, who called 192 00:10:12.620 --> 00:10:17.750 Comer and Johnson's investigations failure theater. Fox News' Chief Clown 193 00:10:17.769 --> 00:10:21.679 Brian Kilmeade called the impeachment ridiculous and a waste of time. 194 00:10:22.059 --> 00:10:25.480 Ken Buck, a Republican congressman, wrote in the Washington Post 195 00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:28.320 in September that Republicans in the House who are itching 196 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:32.500 for an impeachment are relying on an imagined history. They 197 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:35.460 know this is bullshit. And I think voters, to answer 198 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:38.299 your question, voters are smarter than we give them credit 199 00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:40.500 for it sometimes, particularly the voters that I think we 200 00:10:40.539 --> 00:10:42.059 need to stay on our side or come back to 201 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:46.370 our side next year. Voters of color, college educated voters 202 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:49.860 in the suburbs, And once indictments turn to trials, turn 203 00:10:49.879 --> 00:10:52.269 to potentially convictions, I think the difference is going to 204 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:54.509 be clear. But these are not the same thing. One 205 00:10:54.570 --> 00:10:58.309 is based in evidence, and one is based in absolute fiction. 206 00:10:58.610 --> 00:11:04.549 Yeah, there's just no doubt that, like, if you're one 207 00:11:04.570 --> 00:11:09.789 of the dozen or so Republicans who won in Biden districts, 208 00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:12.539 that you are deeply unpleased. 209 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:13.200 Yeah. 210 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:16.419 You're deeply unhappy with this situation. This is not what 211 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:18.200 you want to be talking about. This is not what 212 00:11:18.220 -->

00:11:19.539 you want to be answering questions about. This is not 213 00:11:19.570 --> 00:11:20.259 what you want to be dealing with. 214 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:23.210 And yet, they all fucking voted for it today, right? 215 00:11:23.250 --> 00:11:26.330 Including Ken Buck who wrote that op-ed. You quoted. 216 00:11:26.610 --> 00:11:29.649 The ink was not dry on that op-ed when he 217 00:11:29.669 --> 00:11:31.549 turned around and voted for the thing that he said 218 00:11:31.570 --> 00:11:31.909 he was not. 219 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:32.980 Going to vote for in the Washington Post. 220 00:11:33.259 --> 00:11:34.759 But maybe it is actually very believable. 221 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:35.720 Yeah, it's very believable. 222 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:38.799 You forgot about my guy, Dusty Johnson from South Dakota 223 00:11:39.179 --> 00:11:41.759 who said, there's not evidence to impeach I don't like 224 00:11:41.779 --> 00:11:44.039 the stonewalling the administration has done, but listen, if we 225 00:11:44.080 --> 00:11:46.559 don't have the receipts, then that should constrain what the 226 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:48.950 House does. You guys know I've been hard on Dusty 227 00:11:48.990 --> 00:11:52.000 Johnson in the past. But that's a pretty solid quote. 228 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:53.299 I don't listen to you. I just wait for my 229 00:11:53.320 --> 00:11:55.019 turn to talk. I just think that's a funny name. 230 00:11:55.039 --> 00:11:58.700 All right. Love it. 231 00:11:59.789 --> 00:12:02.649 So Hunter Biden is refusing to sit for this private deposition. 232 00:12:02.710 --> 00:12:04.929 He's instead demanding that he be allowed to testify publicly 233 00:12:05.190 --> 00:12:07.690 during a press conference Wednesday. He said, quote, Republicans do 234 00:12:07.730 --> 00:12:10.490 not want an open process where Americans can see their tactics, 235 00:12:10.750 --> 00:12:13.169 expose their baseless inquiry or hear what I have to say. 236 00:12:13.529 --> 00:12:15.720 What are they afraid of? I'm here. I'm ready. What 237 00:12:15.740 --> 00:12:18.159 do you think of this high stakes game of political chicken? 238 00:12:18.419 --> 00:12:20.049 Here's what I think. I think he's making a lot 239 00:12:20.070 --> 00:12:22.870 of good points. I'd like someone else to make those points. Uh, 240 00:12:23.230 --> 00:12:25.529 like this, this idea that we're heading to a, like 241 00:12:25.610 --> 00:12:28.029 a big confrontation where Hunter Biden's going to clear his name. 242 00:12:28.210 --> 00:12:30.809 That's not how this goes. I just, I would like 243 00:12:30.830 --> 00:12:32.980 this to be, I would like him to answer questions 244 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:35.799 from Republicans the way those college professors answered the questions 245 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:40.559 from a Lisa Stefanik, like lawyerly cold and dead, just quiet, 246 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:46.139 fucking shitty, boring answers. Uh, We have to make the 247 00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:48.759 argument that everyone's talking about, right? That like Republicans are 248 00:12:48.860 --> 00:12:52.230 in our, you know, Joe Biden is president as an 249 00:12:52.350 --> 00:12:57.750 antidote to Republican chaos, extremism, and corruption. This impeachment inquiry 250 00:12:57.929 --> 00:13:00.629 is a distraction from that fight. That Joe Biden's success 251 00:13:00.710 --> 00:13:03.360 as president is not something Republicans can run against. What 252 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:06.360 they can run against is trumped up charges, efforts to 253 00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:08.679 do what Comer is doing, which is If you watch Comer, 254 00:13:08.700 --> 00:13:10.960 he has been doing these interviews with Jake Tapper for 255 00:13:11.059 --> 00:13:13.500 literally a year now. And he goes on and he 256 00:13:13.580 --> 00:13:17.179 talks in that fucking high-pitched Southern accent for 15 minutes, 257 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:19.779 never saying a goddamn thing while Jake smirks and smiles 258 00:13:19.820 --> 00:13:21.799 and says, you don't have anything. But Comer doesn't care 259 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:24.879 because they're doing what they did with Benghazi. They're doing 260 00:13:24.899 --> 00:13:27.580 what they've done over the years to try to make 261 00:13:27.620 --> 00:13:30.490 it to just, even if there's no fire, they're going 262 00:13:30.500 --> 00:13:34.250 to do everything they can to create the illusion of smoke. 263 00:13:34.289 --> 00:13:36.549 So our job is to fight that. What Hunter Biden does, 264 00:13:36.909 --> 00:13:39.100 I don't really care. I would like it to be 265 00:13:39.259 --> 00:13:42.059 quiet and in his own home. That's how I feel 266 00:13:42.100 --> 00:13:42.399 about it. 267 00:13:43.139 --> 00:13:45.659 I think it's worth talking for a second about why 268 00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:50.289 they're doing this. There are, as Tommy and Lovett just mentioned, 269 00:13:50.289 --> 00:13:52.850 18 Republicans who are in districts that Joe Biden won. 270 00:13:52.889 --> 00:13:54.850 And that number is actually probably going to go up 271 00:13:55.029 --> 00:13:56.929 because there's a court case in New York and New 272 00:13:56.950 --> 00:13:58.289 York is going to redraw its districts. 273 00:13:58.769 --> 00:13:59.549 So a bunch of these.... 274 00:14:01.019 --> 00:14:07.779 We have cheered subpoena defiance and gerrymandering. 275 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:13.320 When we do it, it's good. 276 00:14:17.750 --> 00:14:22.230 The short-term political imperative for why they're doing this is 277 00:14:22.470 --> 00:14:25.490 the law of Republican physics is if you do one 278 00:14:25.610 --> 00:14:27.929 sane thing, which is what the Republicans did when they 279 00:14:27.970 --> 00:14:30.460 voted to prevent the government from shutting down, You have 280 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:34.240 to do one much bigger, much more insane thing, and 281 00:14:34.279 --> 00:14:35.720 that is this impeachment. 282 00:14:36.240

--> 00:14:38.340 Now, there's not, like, Adesanya was right. 283 00:14:38.620 --> 00:14:41.879 There may be a chance they will never vote to 284 00:14:42.139 --> 00:14:47.370 actually impeach Joe Biden, but they want to keep the 285 00:14:47.889 --> 00:14:50.429 investigation going the entire time so that there can be 286 00:14:50.610 --> 00:14:55.450 some level of suspicion, and suspicion in a political environment 287 00:14:55.509 --> 00:14:58.450 where the overwhelming majority of Americans think most politicians are corrupt. 288 00:14:59.529 --> 00:15:03.330 And You know, one thing that we, you know, in 289 00:15:03.350 --> 00:15:05.690 the impeachment of Donald Trump, there were all these subpoenas 290 00:15:06.149 --> 00:15:08.610 that were never actually enforced because the Democrats were on 291 00:15:08.649 --> 00:15:11.080 a clock. They were trying to get it done quickly, 292 00:15:11.419 --> 00:15:13.460 so they never pushed it to the envelope or they 293 00:15:13.500 --> 00:15:15.299 would force there to be, go all the way up 294 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:17.320 to the Supreme Court, some of these subpoenas. Republicans would 295 00:15:17.340 --> 00:15:20.019 now have a year or 11 months to try to 296 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:21.679 do that. And that's what they're hoping for, is to 297 00:15:21.700 --> 00:15:24.429 just keep this out there. Maybe they find something that 298 00:15:24.490 --> 00:15:28.750 is totally... unrelated to Hunter Biden that can be some. 299 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:29.480 Moment in the campaign. 300 00:15:29.509 --> 00:15:33.200 Hillary Clinton's emails did not come from an investigation into 301 00:15:33.659 --> 00:15:35.879 her email protocol. It came from an investigation into a 302 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:39.879 totally bullshit special committee investigation into Benghazi. 303 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:40.139 Yeah. 304 00:15:40.220 --> 00:15:43.460 And the Bill Clinton impeachment grew out of a decade 305 00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:46.419 older investigation out of Whitewater. The other thing too, just 306 00:15:46.779 --> 00:15:50.460 part of the reason they've pursued this specific investigation is 307 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:54.620 Donald Trump ran an incredibly corrupt White House where his 308 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:58.279 family members profited off the administration, where people who were 309 00:15:58.379 --> 00:16:02.080 working for him were doing shady fucking shit to position 310 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:05.610 themselves to get, say, $ 2 billion from the Saudis after 311 00:16:05.620 --> 00:16:09.110 they left office. This is also about neutralizing a critique 312 00:16:09.149 --> 00:16:11.929 of Donald Trump to try to stir up something that 313 00:16:12.110 --> 00:16:15.409 seems to have the contours of the kind of corruption 314 00:16:15.450 --> 00:16:18.720 that actually took place when Donald Trump was president. That 315 00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:20.799 is what they're trying to do with Hunter Biden. That 316 00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:22.679 is what they were trying to do when Donald Trump 317 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:24.559 says Joe Biden is a threat to democracy. It is 318 00:16:24.620 --> 00:16:29.460 the I'm rubber, you're glue 2024 campaign. 319 00:16:30.460 --> 00:16:33.139 The only thing I would add is, obviously, we're talking 320 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:35.940 about this because this happened today on Capitol Hill. 321 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:36.700 It's news. 322 00:16:37.139 --> 00:16:38.919 But one of the things for the listeners, for the 323 00:16:38.970 --> 00:16:41.409 folks in the audience, like, They want us to keep 324 00:16:41.470 --> 00:16:44.370 talking about this because it takes up space from all 325 00:16:44.409 --> 00:16:46.049 the other things we could be talking about, not just 326 00:16:46.090 --> 00:16:48.610 about things that President Biden and Democrats have done in 327 00:16:48.669 --> 00:16:51.889 Washington or elsewhere, but the things that Trump did in 328 00:16:51.909 --> 00:16:54.350 the past and will potentially do if he becomes president again. 329 00:16:54.389 --> 00:16:56.220 And so some of this is just about taking up 330 00:16:56.289 --> 00:17:01.059 oxygen and making sure that, you know, they did it 331 00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:02.779 to Trump, so they're going to do it to Biden. 332 00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:03.639 Impeachment, impeachment. 333 00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:05.579 And try to get voters out there who are paying 334 00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:08.779 less attention than the listeners of the people in the 335 00:17:08.859 --> 00:17:11.299 audience to just say, throw up their hand and say 336 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:13.339 they're all the same. And so I think it's incumbent 337 00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:15.539 a little bit upon us to, sure, talk about it. 338 00:17:15.829 --> 00:17:18.970 It's important news of the day, but also not to 339 00:17:19.029 --> 00:17:22.269 let this become the defining issue of the next six 340 00:17:22.309 --> 00:17:25.569 months because it's probably not a good place for us 341 00:17:25.589 --> 00:17:28.390 to be fighting this election, especially when Trump becomes the 342 00:17:28.410 --> 00:17:29.450 nominee in a couple of weeks. 343 00:17:29.559 --> 00:17:29.910 I don't know. 344 00:17:30.019 --> 00:17:31.319 I mean, yes, I don't think we want to spend 345 00:17:31.339 --> 00:17:33.019 the next six months on this, but I think they 346 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:34.880 are going to want to have this vote. 347 00:17:35.380 --> 00:17:37.059 They did very little press on the vote. They're not 348 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:37.539 going to talk. 349 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:37.900 They did it. 350 00:17:38.430 --> 00:17:40.490 There's a reason they did it right before they went 351 00:17:40.509 --> 00:17:42.809 home for the holidays, right, just to get it done with. Now, 352 00:17:42.829 --> 00:17:44.990 none of them have to get cornered by Jake Sherman 353 00:17:45.019 --> 00:17:47.220 in the

hallway of the Capitol in an answer for this. 354 00:17:47.740 --> 00:17:49.960 They're not going to see voters for weeks. They want 355 00:17:49.980 --> 00:17:52.299 to keep this kind of a little bit under the radar, 356 00:17:52.339 --> 00:17:53.660 like they're going to go on Fox News and talk 357 00:17:53.700 --> 00:17:55.240 about it. They'll be on Newsmax and want anyone else 358 00:17:55.259 --> 00:17:56.980 to know about it. This is why I think that 359 00:17:57.029 --> 00:17:59.269 it's worth having a fight over this. And there are 360 00:17:59.369 --> 00:18:02.230 political merits to having the fight. Like, there's going to 361 00:18:02.250 --> 00:18:03.589 be a moment where Donald Trump's the nominee, and we're 362 00:18:03.609 --> 00:18:05.009 going to pivot hard, and that is going to be 363 00:18:05.029 --> 00:18:07.470 the thing. The next few months, there's nothing that would 364 00:18:07.509 --> 00:18:10.430 be better, in my view, for Joe Biden's political standing 365 00:18:10.470 --> 00:18:14.910 than to get Democrats angry at Republicans. And this worked 366 00:18:14.990 --> 00:18:18.920 for Donald Trump because Donald Trump's poll numbers, we all 367 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:21.480 cheered that day in December of 2019 when that impeachment 368 00:18:21.619 --> 00:18:24.019 was filed. Donald Trump's poll numbers went up over the 369 00:18:24.059 --> 00:18:28.400 course of that for two reasons. One is his approval 370 00:18:28.420 --> 00:18:31.869 rating among Republicans went from 80% to 90%. So that 371 00:18:31.910 --> 00:18:34.890 jumped his approval rating up significantly. And one of the 372 00:18:35.069 --> 00:18:37.710 only times Donald Trump has ever been above 50% with 373 00:18:37.750 --> 00:18:40.500 independents in the entire time of his presidency was when 374 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:41.490 the Democrats were impeaching him. 375 00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:44.660 Because the voters thought that that was not what Congress 376 00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:45.559 should be spending their time on. 377 00:18:46.019 --> 00:18:48.259 And so to your point, they want to make it 378 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:49.660 about something, we should make it about something else, and 379 00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:50.990 we should have that argument, we should have it loudly. 380 00:18:51.230 --> 00:18:55.430 Yeah, maybe it's about not debating the facts. Oh, yes. 381 00:18:55.470 --> 00:18:55.890 Exactly. 382 00:18:55.950 --> 00:18:58.819 The facts of the matter are not we shouldn't be 383 00:18:58.859 --> 00:19:00.789 debating it. If we're talking details, if you're explaining you're 384 00:19:00.829 --> 00:19:04.130 losing is like super extra true when it comes to 385 00:19:04.329 --> 00:19:05.109 Biden impeachment. 386 00:19:05.470 --> 00:19:05.650 Yeah. 387 00:19:05.869 --> 00:19:08.450 Now what the voters, if you ask an open-ended question 388 00:19:08.750 --> 00:19:10.630 to voters, what are the most important issues facing the 389 00:19:10.690 --> 00:19:14.490 U S it's inflation, immigration, democracy. 390 00:19:14.690 --> 00:19:16.390 Like those are the things they want us to focus on. 391 00:19:16.750 --> 00:19:19.509 Biden has to make the case that this impeachment inquiry 392 00:19:19.569 --> 00:19:25.450 is politicized and it's happening because Donald Trump, their MC said, 393 00:19:25.890 --> 00:19:27.829 Democrats did this to me. So now you have to 394 00:19:27.869 --> 00:19:31.599 do it to them. But Adisu, for a while, I mean, 395 00:19:31.859 --> 00:19:34.339 the reason we know the politics of this are a 396 00:19:34.359 --> 00:19:37.220 little unsteady for Republicans is because for a while, they 397 00:19:37.259 --> 00:19:40.309 were hesitant about impeachment. It was the Marjorie Taylor Greene's 398 00:19:40.329 --> 00:19:43.250 of the world pushing for it, while the kind of 399 00:19:43.390 --> 00:19:45.970 normal elements of the caucus were saying, I don't know 400 00:19:45.990 --> 00:19:49.069 that we have the evidence yet. Now the support is unanimous. 401 00:19:49.690 --> 00:19:51.200 What do you think changed to get us here? 402 00:19:52.380 --> 00:19:55.930 I think Republican congressmen are more afraid of Donald Trump 403 00:19:56.150 --> 00:19:58.789 and the MAGA base than they are of anything else. 404 00:19:59.029 --> 00:20:03.950 And when the rubber meets the road, that's where they go. 405 00:20:03.970 --> 00:20:07.859 And Luckily, next November we're gonna have a chance in 406 00:20:07.900 --> 00:20:10.700 those 17 districts, or 18 or however many there'll. 407 00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:12.779 Be, to show them the opposite. 408 00:20:13.460 --> 00:20:16.200 But I also think that the idea that the Republican 409 00:20:16.220 --> 00:20:19.569 Party hasn't been wholly taken over by the MAGA extreme 410 00:20:19.609 --> 00:20:21.650 right is just not true. 411 00:20:22.009 --> 00:20:24.569 There are a couple, sure, that hopefully those. 412 00:20:24.430 --> 00:20:27.349 Couple that end up voting or intending to vote against 413 00:20:27.450 --> 00:20:30.690 articles of impeachment, thus it never moves forward, but the 414 00:20:31.190 --> 00:20:36.990 super majority of Republican Congress is now MAGA Republicans, and 415 00:20:37.029 --> 00:20:38.730 we just have to acknowledge that, and I know all 416 00:20:38.750 --> 00:20:40.670 of us, myself included, for the good of the country, 417 00:20:40.710 --> 00:20:43.319 for the good of the world, wish that there was 418 00:20:43.430 --> 00:20:48.099 a sane opposition on the other side, but it does 419 00:20:48.140 --> 00:20:49.839 not exist, and I don't think it will exist as 420 00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:51.599 long as Donald Trump is still in politics. It's why 421 00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:54.000 I still am in politics, because I said the day 422 00:20:54.059 --> 00:20:56.700 after Hillary Clinton lost in 2016, until that fucker is gone, 423 00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:59.829 I'm not going anywhere. And it's because he's a

threat 424 00:20:59.930 --> 00:21:05.650 to democracy. But anyway, that's where I think ultimately the 425 00:21:05.690 --> 00:21:08.150 Republican Party has been taken over by Donald Trump. That 426 00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:10.920 starts at the top, but it's the members of the 427 00:21:10.940 --> 00:21:13.599 House in particular and even, honestly, the rest of Congress, 428 00:21:13.619 --> 00:21:16.240 I think, because they're MAGA now and we just have 429 00:21:16.259 --> 00:21:16.740 to acknowledge it. 430 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:18.539 And the rest of them have resigned. 431 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:20.440 Okay, we're going to take a quick break, but when 432 00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:23.470 we come back, you'll hear from California State Rep Alex Leak. 433 00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:37.200 Have you ever asked yourself, do I have enough Dan 434 00:21:37.220 --> 00:21:38.480 Pfeiffer content in my life? 435 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:41.039 Every day. Well, now you do. 436 00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:44.980 Today, Dan's brand new series, Polar Coaster, drops its first 437 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:48.420 ever episode. Plus, Dan and Alyssa team up in the 438 00:21:48.500 --> 00:21:52.460 second monthly installment of Inside 2024, dropping next Wednesday, the 20th. 439 00:21:53.019 --> 00:21:54.940 In light of the Trump versus Biden campaigns, the two 440 00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:58.269 will be exploring the strategy behind running an incumbent campaign. 441 00:21:58.849 --> 00:22:04.750 To listen to both of these Dan-infused episodes, head to crooked.com 442 00:22:04.769 --> 00:22:06.670 slash friends to sign up now. 443 00:22:11.109 --> 00:22:14.680 Please welcome to the stage your own state representative, Alex Lee. 444 00:22:25.140 --> 00:22:25.880 Hello, San Jose. 445 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:30.180 Hello, San Jose. These are your people. I know. 446 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:31.369 This is my home city, too. 447 00:22:31.390 --> 00:22:32.130 So it's really awesome. 448 00:22:32.150 --> 00:22:34.329 You're ending the tour in San Jose. 449 00:22:34.349 --> 00:22:38.150 It's awesome. All right. You were 25 when you ran 450 00:22:38.190 --> 00:22:38.990 for the seat and won. 451 00:22:39.190 --> 00:22:41.660 I was 23 when I ran. Oh, there you go. 452 00:22:41.670 --> 00:22:42.509 I was sworn in at 25. 453 00:22:42.509 --> 00:22:44.349 Okay, there you go. I was sworn in at 25. 454 00:22:44.349 --> 00:22:46.410 So you were 23 when you started to run. I 455 00:22:46.430 --> 00:22:47.700 know what I was doing when I was 23. Running 456 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:54.940 for office, too? No, no, absolutely not. Talk to me 457 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:56.140 about how you. 458 00:22:56.809 --> 00:22:58.529 like how did you come to decision to think that 459 00:22:58.569 --> 00:23:02.210 this is how you should spend your early twenties and 460 00:23:02.509 --> 00:23:04.299 what gave you confidence that you could win? 461 00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:05.319 Yeah. 462 00:23:05.390 --> 00:23:08.700 So I'm 28 now. So that's three years. 463 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:10.460 Into basically old now. Yes. 464 00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:14.359 I'm very old. If you ask my very young staff, 465 00:23:14.380 --> 00:23:17.650 they'll say I'm a death's door. Now I'm basically a 30, uh, 466 00:23:17.660 --> 00:23:19.599 but three years in, it feels like I've been in 467 00:23:19.660 --> 00:23:22.359 office for three decades. Frankly, I started during the pandemic. 468 00:23:22.539 --> 00:23:25.950 I won my primary two weeks before this County, shut 469 00:23:26.009 --> 00:23:28.069 down because of the COVID pandemic and was the first 470 00:23:28.170 --> 00:23:30.089 ever in an entire country to do so. 471 00:23:30.509 --> 00:23:32.039 So you're like Joe Biden in that way. 472 00:23:33.180 --> 00:23:35.460 I think so too. I think we were both leaders 473 00:23:35.500 --> 00:23:37.000 in our own time like that too. I mean, hey, 474 00:23:37.019 --> 00:23:39.420 Joe Biden started very early too. I don't know if 475 00:23:39.460 --> 00:23:42.519 I could be president at his age too, but frankly. 476 00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:45.200 We'll get to that. We'll see. We'll see, right? 477 00:23:45.619 --> 00:23:48.089 But you know, one thing that really motivated me to 478 00:23:48.170 --> 00:23:50.369 run for office, and I was a legislative staffer before 479 00:23:50.430 --> 00:23:52.950 I ran for office, is that I was frankly tired 480 00:23:53.009 --> 00:23:56.490 that we had a Democratic supermajority in California with democratic 481 00:23:56.509 --> 00:23:59.029 control of all the executive office, and yet we were 482 00:23:59.130 --> 00:24:03.279 surrendering to fucking incrementalism. We have some of the worst 483 00:24:03.410 --> 00:24:09.079 problems in the entire country, and people rightfully sometimes lampoon 484 00:24:09.140 --> 00:24:12.039 us for it, but we have to be really innovative 485 00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:14.380 in how we tackle these problems. And maybe it's because 486 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:15.980 I'm from, I grew up here in Silicon Valley, but 487 00:24:16.019 --> 00:24:19.160 I went there, I disrupted things, I said we should 488 00:24:19.220 --> 00:24:21.740 think about things differently, we should tax billionaires, we should 489 00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:24.500 actually get people housing. and frankly, annoyed a lot of 490 00:24:24.519 --> 00:24:29.519 people with status quo. But I wasn't gonna surrender to incrementalism, 491 00:24:29.579 --> 00:24:30.380 and that's why I ran. 492 00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:36.240 And how have your new, older colleagues taken to your 493 00:24:36.289 --> 00:24:37.430 non-incrementalism message? 494 00:24:38.509 --> 00:24:40.630 I think at first, a lot of people were taken 495 00:24:40.690 --> 00:24:42.710 aback by my approach. You know, frankly, I've been in 496 00:24:42.750 --> 00:24:45.309 legislative staff. I understood that a lot of things were 497 00:24:45.369 --> 00:24:47.789 true compromise,

right? But it was really nibbling away at 498 00:24:47.829 --> 00:24:50.369 the edges of so many things. But I am excited, 499 00:24:50.549 --> 00:24:53.940 as we constantly have a refresh of new members, we 500 00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:56.230 are more and more bracing of new ideas. And frankly, 501 00:24:56.309 --> 00:24:58.829 it's also because how dire the consequences are, or dire 502 00:24:58.849 --> 00:25:01.130 the issues are now. I mean, we, even though the 503 00:25:01.150 --> 00:25:04.269 wealthiest state in the entire country, have the largest population 504 00:25:04.309 --> 00:25:06.509 of unhoused people on the streets. And that is a 505 00:25:06.650 --> 00:25:08.930 symptom directly of our inequality. So as more and more 506 00:25:08.950 --> 00:25:11.369 people understand how dire the issues are, I think more 507 00:25:11.390 --> 00:25:13.609 people are turning to issues. And frankly, I even got 508 00:25:13.630 --> 00:25:15.210 the governor to say it once, that I was right 509 00:25:15.309 --> 00:25:17.250 on something. And he doesn't usually say I was right 510 00:25:17.309 --> 00:25:17.730 on something. 511 00:25:17.769 --> 00:25:18.930 What was the thing you said you were right on? 512 00:25:19.650 --> 00:25:25.759 It was this year, we actually... investigated the gouging prices 513 00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:30.799 by gasoline companies, and I proposed last year a windfall 514 00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:33.849 profits tax, and then we had a special session to 515 00:25:33.869 --> 00:25:36.109 do just that. So we adopted that proposal. It changed 516 00:25:36.130 --> 00:25:37.630 along the way, but I was really happy to work 517 00:25:37.650 --> 00:25:39.259 with Governor Gavin Newsom on this issue too. 518 00:25:39.269 --> 00:25:40.029 All right. 519 00:25:40.170 --> 00:25:42.130 As you mentioned, and I think this is probably your 520 00:25:42.230 --> 00:25:45.940 signature legislative effort, has been introducing legislation to increase taxes 521 00:25:45.980 --> 00:25:49.180 on the wealthiest Californians, people with a net worth of 522 00:25:49.180 --> 00:25:49.880 $ 50 million or more. 523 00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:51.740 Apologies if any of those people are in this audience tonight. 524 00:25:52.650 --> 00:25:54.710 Can you walk us a little bit through that legislation 525 00:25:54.730 --> 00:25:55.819 and why you introduced it? 526 00:25:56.390 --> 00:25:59.490 Yeah, so very much like Senator Elizabeth Warren's proposal to 527 00:25:59.579 --> 00:26:04.920 tax mega millionaires and billionaires, just 1% of every dollar 528 00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:08.500 of their mega fortune. That proposal at the time when 529 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:10.200 we created it, and we worked with a lot of 530 00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:13.160 smart academics and people worked in policy, worked on Senator 531 00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:17.640 Warren's proposal too. would have generated $ 22 billion a year, 532 00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:20.359 $ 22 billion a year. And you

know the funny thing 533 00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:23.829 about that is it unequally skewed towards the billionaires, even 534 00:26:23.910 --> 00:26:27.019 amongst super rich people, the very, very rich people we pay. 535 00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:29.640 And we're talking about the Jeff Bezoses, the Mark Zuckerbergs, 536 00:26:30.049 --> 00:26:31.490 the Elon Musk of the world, which I know you're 537 00:26:31.509 --> 00:26:33.869 gonna talk about later. But those are the people that 538 00:26:33.890 --> 00:26:35.410 will be paying an enormous amount of money. And I 539 00:26:35.430 --> 00:26:38.269 wanna highlight to you why a wealth tax, an asset tax, 540 00:26:38.710 --> 00:26:42.460 is so important. Because our taxation system, even in California 541 00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:44.720 and in the country, is very good at taxing you 542 00:26:44.779 --> 00:26:47.160 if you make a paycheck. But once you no longer 543 00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:49.819 make a paycheck, especially the very rich people we know 544 00:26:49.859 --> 00:26:52.119 as household names today, when you own everything, and which 545 00:26:52.180 --> 00:26:55.250 is the most classical and ancient form of power, is ownership. 546 00:26:55.289 --> 00:26:57.930 You own everything you need, you can leverage more stuff 547 00:26:57.990 --> 00:27:00.180 because you own more stuff, And that's where the rich 548 00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:02.700 can forego paychecks and salaries and stuff like that because 549 00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:05.180 you don't need anything. You own everything. That is true power. 550 00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:08.089 And that system goes unchecked. And that's why wealth is 551 00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:11.509 so imbalanced. And especially now, as you've probably seen the headlines, 552 00:27:11.569 --> 00:27:14.630 California is facing a budget crisis. We can continue to 553 00:27:14.710 --> 00:27:18.430 support our social services, our schools, our educators, all the 554 00:27:18.470 --> 00:27:21.109 great things that we want if we just said, let's 555 00:27:21.170 --> 00:27:23.630 tax the people that are already evading a taxation system. 556 00:27:26.940 --> 00:27:27.140 Now. 557 00:27:27.930 --> 00:27:32.750 California has a lot of very politically active rich people. 558 00:27:33.690 --> 00:27:35.839 How, and we're going to talk about some of them later, 559 00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:40.319 some of them are quite conservative, but. 560 00:27:40.299 --> 00:27:43.549 Many of them are huge supporters of democratic politics in 561 00:27:43.589 --> 00:27:46.410 the state. What has been the response to your proposal 562 00:27:46.970 --> 00:27:47.569 in Sacramento? 563 00:27:48.750 --> 00:27:51.509 I think You know, you have a lot of people 564 00:27:51.569 --> 00:27:53.089 who are very scared of the T word, and I 565 00:27:53.150 --> 00:27:56.410 encourage my fellow party members of Democrats to obviously always 566 00:27:56.470 --> 00:27:59.809 talk about taxes. Because we, and you talked about this 567 00:27:59.829 --> 00:28:02.390 in the previous segment, we have to be the responsible 568 00:28:02.410 --> 00:28:04.470 adults in the room. We have to have a true 569 00:28:04.589 --> 00:28:07.470 fiscal responsible conversation. If we want the best schools in 570 00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:10.720 the world, actual healthcare system that serves people, we have 571 00:28:10.740 --> 00:28:12.559 to talk about how we're gonna pay for it. Republicans 572 00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:14.180 always say there's no such thing as free lunch. 573 00:28:14.420 --> 00:28:14.819 I agree. 574 00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:17.119 So how do we together figure out what's the most 575 00:28:17.220 --> 00:28:19.700 equitable way to pay for lunch? And yet we're so 576 00:28:19.819 --> 00:28:22.299 afraid to say, how do we pay for things we enjoy? 577 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:24.920 And one other thing of why a wealth tax is 578 00:28:24.940 --> 00:28:28.480 so important is that for more than half of Californians, 579 00:28:28.519 --> 00:28:31.160 they already pay wealth tax on their most important source 580 00:28:31.180 --> 00:28:34.569 of wealth. It's called property tax. You already pay that. 581 00:28:34.670 --> 00:28:36.910 But with rich people, you own more than just one house. Well, 582 00:28:36.930 --> 00:28:38.670 they own a lot more than one house. They own 583 00:28:38.690 --> 00:28:39.329 a lot of things. 584 00:28:39.430 --> 00:28:40.809 And that's what a wealth tax gets at. 585 00:28:42.210 --> 00:28:45.130 One of the critiques that people have had to your 586 00:28:45.150 --> 00:28:47.819 proposal is that it would trigger an exodus of wealthy 587 00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:51.900 people from California and that that would diminish the tax 588 00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:54.500 base during a time of, as you say, a budget crunch. 589 00:28:54.920 --> 00:28:55.759 What's your response to that? 590 00:28:56.220 --> 00:29:01.259 The reality is two things, is that the outbound migration 591 00:29:01.299 --> 00:29:04.960 of Californians tends to be upon working class Californians. People 592 00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:07.759 that can pay the premiums being California, whether or not 593 00:29:07.819 --> 00:29:10.759 they bitch and moan about California, they pay the premium. 594 00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:13.799 They stay here, frankly, because you can pay the premium. 595 00:29:14.180 --> 00:29:16.240 It's people who are squeezed in the middle and squeezed 596 00:29:16.259 --> 00:29:18.059 at the bottom who have no other options but to 597 00:29:18.099 --> 00:29:19.819 leave the state. Those are the people that leave the state. 598 00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:23.180 And we also know from history, under Governor Jerry Brown, 599 00:29:23.220 --> 00:29:27.410 who was a fiscal conservative, we raise income taxes on people. 600 00:29:27.750 --> 00:29:31.509 And yet the migration of high-income people was not this 601 00:29:31.589 --> 00:29:34.210 exodus that people complained

about all the time. So frankly, 602 00:29:34.430 --> 00:29:36.630 all the times I see people complain about, well, if 603 00:29:36.670 --> 00:29:38.029 we do this, the rich will do this, so the 604 00:29:38.069 --> 00:29:39.420 rich will do that. I thought we live in a 605 00:29:39.450 --> 00:29:42.160 democracy folks. I didn't know we lived in an aristocracy 606 00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:44.240 where we did what the nobility wanted us to do. 607 00:29:47.059 --> 00:29:50.059 Let's talk a little about housing, right? It is every 608 00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:53.500 conversation you have with people all across the country, frankly, 609 00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:55.400 it's about housing, but particularly as it relates to here 610 00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:58.329 in California and What have you been working on to 611 00:29:58.369 --> 00:30:01.609 try to address the lack of affordable housing in the state? 612 00:30:02.109 --> 00:30:02.549 Absolutely. 613 00:30:02.589 --> 00:30:05.269 So when I ran in 2020, and just a small 614 00:30:05.289 --> 00:30:06.849 plug is that no one thought I was going to 615 00:30:06.869 --> 00:30:11.490 win in 2020, including myself, okay? Because I had $ 32, 000 616 00:30:11.250 --> 00:30:13.990 in a half a million people district to just knock 617 00:30:14.059 --> 00:30:17.160 on doors. But the most pressing issue that I talked 618 00:30:17.180 --> 00:30:19.910 to other people is housing affordability. I've shared this often. 619 00:30:20.150 --> 00:30:22.529 I am one of the five renters in the entire 620 00:30:22.569 --> 00:30:26.150 state legislature, five out of 120 people. And I'm also 621 00:30:26.390 --> 00:30:28.619 probably the only person that lives with their parent because 622 00:30:28.630 --> 00:30:31.420 in my area, it costs one, well, it's actually now 623 00:30:31.420 --> 00:30:34.299 $ 2 million. $ 2 million to buy a house lasts you $ 1. 624 00:30:33.900 --> 00:30:34.299 6 million. 625 00:30:34.500 --> 00:30:37.980 And housing affordability is so critical to the very fabric 626 00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:40.779 of California society. Because think about this. If I, as 627 00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:43.380 someone who works in government and gets pretty decent well-paid, 628 00:30:43.700 --> 00:30:45.920 cannot afford to be a homeowner in my own community, 629 00:30:45.980 --> 00:30:48.920 as many people do, then what's our long-term hope in 630 00:30:48.940 --> 00:30:50.900 this place? Are we going to be priced out? And 631 00:30:50.940 --> 00:30:52.720 so it's only people who pay the premium can be here. 632 00:30:53.109 --> 00:30:55.470 So in the legislature, we're focusing more and more on 633 00:30:55.509 --> 00:30:58.170 housing affordability, a really active step. And under the leadership 634 00:30:58.210 --> 00:31:00.410 of our new assembly housing chair, Chris Ward from San Diego, 635 00:31:00.450 --> 00:31:03.630 my favorite tree hugger, if he's listening, I'm really excited 636 00:31:03.650 --> 00:31:05.509 what

we're going to do because we can thread so 637 00:31:05.549 --> 00:31:11.519 many different issues, climate justice, homelessness, social justice, through land use, 638 00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:14.380 through housing issues. It is very nerdy. Oftentimes you talk 639 00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:17.500 about zoning or exclusionaries, policies or stuff like that. But 640 00:31:17.539 --> 00:31:19.359 the heart of it, what I try to tell voters, 641 00:31:19.420 --> 00:31:22.160 is that the way your community looks and feels is 642 00:31:22.220 --> 00:31:24.680 because of land use, is because of housing. And I 643 00:31:24.740 --> 00:31:26.519 believe that housing is a human right, so we should 644 00:31:26.539 --> 00:31:28.440 be doing as much as possible as a government to 645 00:31:28.460 --> 00:31:29.740 make sure that everyone has a home. 646 00:31:36.930 --> 00:31:38.490 This is probably not fair. I don't mean to make 647 00:31:38.529 --> 00:31:41.680 you the spokesperson for your entire generation. But one of 648 00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:44.660 the biggest challenges... Well, often my colleagues do, but... That's right, 649 00:31:44.680 --> 00:31:44.980 that's right. 650 00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:48.750 But one of the biggest political challenges for President Biden 651 00:31:48.769 --> 00:31:51.170 and Democrats, frankly, across the country right now, is that 652 00:31:51.190 --> 00:31:56.130 the young voters who propelled our election victories in 2018 653 00:31:56.130 --> 00:32:01.390 and 2020 are becoming more disengaged, more disengaged from the 654 00:32:01.430 --> 00:32:05.420 Democratic Party, not necessarily disengaged from issues, frustrated with President Biden. 655 00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:07.759 That's probably the group within his coalition where his approval 656 00:32:07.779 --> 00:32:09.900 ratings have gone down the most. 657 00:32:10.619 --> 00:32:10.819 What. 658 00:32:11.289 --> 00:32:14.210 would your advice be to Democrats about how they win 659 00:32:14.309 --> 00:32:17.599 back and re-engage the younger voters who are so critical 660 00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:18.579 to any Democratic victory? 661 00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:24.039 Yeah, I don't... Look, speaking as also a strong progressive 662 00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:25.680 in our state legislature, and I'm also chair of the 663 00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:28.599 Progressive Caucus, I'm someone who's frustrated with the Biden administration too. 664 00:32:28.980 --> 00:32:33.349 But sometimes, as a young person, I'm puzzled why political 665 00:32:33.430 --> 00:32:36.009 analysts are so struggling with how to engage with young people. 666 00:32:36.029 --> 00:32:39.329 If you approach us just like every other demographic... it 667 00:32:39.349 --> 00:32:41.450 would make sense. Because what we're asking is, what are 668 00:32:41.470 --> 00:32:43.190 you going to do for us? We have asked for 669 00:32:43.269 --> 00:32:46.230 student loan relief. We've asked for a decisive climate change. 670 00:32:47.130 --> 00:32:51.299 We've been asking very plainly for decisive action material change. 671 00:32:51.819 --> 00:32:54.440 And yet we fall short, right? Especially in the student 672 00:32:54.500 --> 00:32:56.980 loan conversation where it's been paused and a little bit 673 00:32:57.039 --> 00:32:57.900 of cut off, a little bit. 674 00:32:57.859 --> 00:32:58.380 Of this, right? 675 00:32:58.460 --> 00:33:00.869 But people get very frustrated by that. So I think 676 00:33:00.980 --> 00:33:05.309 if there is decisive material benefit that's affecting us, I 677 00:33:05.329 --> 00:33:06.609 think that's what we want to see. And I think 678 00:33:06.849 --> 00:33:10.160 this president as being the most progressive president in our 679 00:33:10.220 --> 00:33:13.799 history and the most pro-union president in our history, can 680 00:33:13.859 --> 00:33:17.680 deliver on those things. And like in a time when 681 00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:19.819 the Republicans, all they want to do is impeach or 682 00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:21.740 besmirch his family, all these things, why not show him 683 00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:23.599 and say, hey, you know what? I'm just going to, 684 00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:26.039 like that. Your student loan debt is gone. I'm going 685 00:33:26.059 --> 00:33:26.849 to make health care for him. 686 00:33:26.859 --> 00:33:27.839 I'm going to do all these things. I'm just going 687 00:33:27.859 --> 00:33:28.240 to do it. 688 00:33:28.619 --> 00:33:30.539 Because it's also just as important as to brag about 689 00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:32.309 our victories and do press releases. And I know as 690 00:33:32.329 --> 00:33:34.609 a politician, we also have to deliver on these things 691 00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:37.410 and make people feel the change. Because If people feel 692 00:33:37.450 --> 00:33:40.329 that this government is working for them, they really will 693 00:33:40.450 --> 00:33:41.789 vote for it. They will turn out for that. But 694 00:33:41.829 --> 00:33:43.569 right now, I think a lot of people are disillusioned 695 00:33:43.609 --> 00:33:45.970 and they feel there isn't that moral clarity or that 696 00:33:46.009 --> 00:33:48.799 decisive action. And that's what Democrats want. We want decisive 697 00:33:49.210 --> 00:33:51.400 social change. And if we don't see that, it's hard 698 00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:52.000 to be inspired. 699 00:33:52.019 --> 00:33:54.119 Well, I think that's a great place to end it. 700 00:33:54.619 --> 00:33:56.519 Please give it up for Alex Lee. 701 00:33:56.539 --> 00:34:04.009 Thank you. All right. 702 00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:07.000 Since we're in San Jose, a city that is sometimes 703 00:34:07.059 --> 00:34:09.719 referred to as the city that's an hour south of 704 00:34:09.739 --> 00:34:10.860 the capital of Silicon Valley. 705 00:34:12.380 --> 00:34:15.260 Just kidding. I'm just... It's fine. 706 00:34:16.380 --> 00:34:17.940 We thought we spent the rest of the show talking 707 00:34:17.960 -->

00:34:20.530 about the intersection of tech and politics. And to help 708 00:34:20.590 --> 00:34:24.070 us sound smart for once, we are joined by Zoe Schiffer. 709 00:34:24.590 --> 00:34:30.389 She is the managing editor at Platformer. Excellent, excellent site. 710 00:34:30.510 --> 00:34:34.880 And the co-author of the forthcoming book, Extremely Hardcore... inside 711 00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:38.530 Elon Musk's Twitter. You can pre-order it today, I imagine, right? 712 00:34:39.429 --> 00:34:40.130 Zoe, welcome to the pod. 713 00:34:40.469 --> 00:34:41.550 Thank you so much for having me. 714 00:34:41.570 --> 00:34:45.750 It's wonderful to have you. Okay. 715 00:34:45.769 --> 00:34:47.949 Wait, before, can we just get a gauge of the 716 00:34:48.010 --> 00:34:51.000 audience so we know who we're dealing with here? How 717 00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:53.760 many of you are current Twitter users? Can you raise 718 00:34:53.780 --> 00:34:57.059 your hands? No shame. And how many of you pay 719 00:34:57.159 --> 00:34:58.519 for X premiums? 720 00:34:59.900 --> 00:35:00.539 Applaud if you do. 721 00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:02.199 Okay, we're among friends. We can go on. 722 00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:06.280 Does any one person in this room pay for X premium? 723 00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:07.730 If so, please leave. 724 00:35:10.889 --> 00:35:11.929 Zoe will scorch you out. 725 00:35:13.570 --> 00:35:17.610 Um, speaking of X, premium or regular, so this week, uh, 726 00:35:17.650 --> 00:35:20.219 I guess this is premium now, uh, Elon Musk continued 727 00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:22.760 the race to the bottom by reinstating none other than 728 00:35:22.940 --> 00:35:27.309 Alex Jones. Um, You remember Alex Jones, the guy who 729 00:35:27.329 --> 00:35:29.489 claimed that Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting was a hoax 730 00:35:29.590 --> 00:35:32.309 and got his band of followers to harass the families 731 00:35:32.349 --> 00:35:36.030 of the victims. So not only did Elon reactivate Alex 732 00:35:36.070 --> 00:35:38.550 Jones' account, he invited him to appear in a live 733 00:35:38.889 --> 00:35:43.039 Twitter space, whatever you call that, space thing, with Republican 734 00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:45.099 presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy. 735 00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:47.199 Here's a clip. Gentlemen, I have to go. 736 00:35:47.619 --> 00:35:50.039 I just want to be sort of, exactly, I want 737 00:35:50.260 --> 00:35:51.440 to be clear about my position. 738 00:35:51.659 --> 00:35:53.250 I'm super pro-humans, and. 739 00:35:53.179 --> 00:35:53.989 I mean all humans. 740 00:35:55.110 --> 00:35:57.150 You know, humans in America, humans. 741 00:35:57.639 --> 00:36:02.280 In Africa, Asia, and everywhere else. 742 00:36:02.300 --> 00:36:05.400 That's your phone, Vivek. 743 00:36:05.500 --> 00:36:09.039 I'm not able to mute you. Vivek. 744 00:36:10.739 --> 00:36:11.619 Go ahead, Elon. 745 00:36:12.989 --> 00:36:14.210 Sorry about that. 746 00:36:17.530 --> 00:36:20.469 Yes,

we did play that clip on Tuesday's show, but 747 00:36:20.530 --> 00:36:22.429 Democrats have been promising you guys a pee tape for 748 00:36:22.530 --> 00:36:30.909 six years. And it's time we finally delivered. Our producer 749 00:36:30.949 --> 00:36:33.190 wanted us to try this one. That Vivek's a real 750 00:36:33.210 --> 00:36:41.469 whiz kid, huh? Got some booze, Alona. So obviously reinstating 751 00:36:41.590 --> 00:36:43.659 Alex Jones is basically a way of signaling you don't 752 00:36:43.719 --> 00:36:46.480 actually care about trust and safety or content moderation or anything. 753 00:36:46.699 --> 00:36:48.519 But it's also part of a broader trend where tech 754 00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:52.099 companies like Meta and YouTube have changed their policies on 755 00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:56.739 political advertising, They've relaxed restrictions on disinformation, like claims that 756 00:36:56.800 --> 00:36:59.369 the 2020 election was stolen. Zoe, do you think these 757 00:36:59.449 --> 00:37:02.889 companies are basically giving up on content moderation as we 758 00:37:03.570 --> 00:37:04.170 roll into 2024? 759 00:37:04.170 --> 00:37:07.530 Yeah, I mean, none of this is an accident. I 760 00:37:07.570 --> 00:37:11.070 think that there is a legitimate attack on free speech happening, 761 00:37:11.090 --> 00:37:13.389 but it's not the attack that most people think. There's 762 00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:17.840 an effort from conservatives to make the work of content 763 00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:22.739 moderation seem dangerous and downright illegal. And this is the 764 00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:24.550 culmination of that plan. 765 00:37:25.090 --> 00:37:27.510 Have any tech companies done a good job with content 766 00:37:27.530 --> 00:37:28.329 moderation that you've seen? 767 00:37:28.949 --> 00:37:31.570 I mean, X has now set the bar pretty low. 768 00:37:31.590 --> 00:37:34.829 So I would say anything above having Alex Jones of 769 00:37:34.849 --> 00:37:37.170 the background, a saw me peeing on air is pretty 770 00:37:37.210 --> 00:37:37.929 good at this point. 771 00:37:38.070 --> 00:37:43.019 How's LinkedIn doing? Are they crushing it? Well, like the 772 00:37:43.159 --> 00:37:46.239 Republicans in Missouri, I believe, are now going after media matters, right? 773 00:37:46.260 --> 00:37:49.900 So like they claim to be for free speech, but 774 00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:54.179 then- Basically, they target people who just simply want accountability 775 00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:55.699 or to hold people accountable for their speech. 776 00:37:55.719 --> 00:37:57.969 Yeah, the thing about free speech on these platforms is 777 00:37:58.030 --> 00:38:01.010 it doesn't mean that all speech is allowed. Because what 778 00:38:01.050 --> 00:38:03.090 happens when you allow all speech is that most people 779 00:38:03.150 --> 00:38:06.510 actually cannot speak because they're brutally harassed. And so you 780 00:38:06.570 --> 00:38:09.469 need some level of content moderation. And there is a 781 00:38:09.510 --> 00:38:12.889 real effort right now to make that seem politicized when 782 00:38:13.090 --> 00:38:13.929 it's honestly not. 783 00:38:14.170 --> 00:38:15.320 Yeah. So, DC, I mean. 784 00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:18.340 Democrats in particular have gone back and forth on whether 785 00:38:18.420 --> 00:38:20.460 we should be on these platforms and fighting it out, 786 00:38:20.500 --> 00:38:23.320 whether we should starve them of users and revenue, I guess. 787 00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:25.320 Where do you land at this point? 788 00:38:25.460 --> 00:38:27.929 Yeah, maybe an unpopular position for the room, but I actually, 789 00:38:27.949 --> 00:38:31.239 I'm not paying for premium, that's for damn sure. But 790 00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:36.610 our job in campaigns to win elections at some level 791 00:38:36.670 --> 00:38:38.650 is to take the world as it is. And if 792 00:38:38.750 --> 00:38:43.050 people are using a medium, it's very hard to just 793 00:38:43.309 --> 00:38:45.510 take yourself out of the game of talking to the 794 00:38:45.530 --> 00:38:48.710 people who are either getting their information, political or otherwise, 795 00:38:48.730 --> 00:38:51.349 from that medium. And so I had a couple debates 796 00:38:51.949 --> 00:38:54.880 when I ran Senator Booker's campaign for president in 2020. 797 00:38:54.880 --> 00:38:57.579 Should we go on Fox News or should we not? 798 00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:01.159 I know there's been talk about the president getting off 799 00:39:01.219 --> 00:39:02.480 of some of these platforms. 800 00:39:03.280 --> 00:39:04.539 People are there, right? 801 00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:07.760 And um, when you, again, when you're in a campaign 802 00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:10.900 in particular, your job is to communicate your message to 803 00:39:10.980 --> 00:39:14.519 people where they are. So my general position is, should 804 00:39:14.539 --> 00:39:17.920 we be supporting with advertising dollars? Probably not to the 805 00:39:17.980 --> 00:39:21.159 extent that we, um, certainly not in the corporate sense, 806 00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:24.210 but on the campaign side, it's, it's really hard to say, no, 807 00:39:24.250 --> 00:39:27.199 don't spend any money talking to voters on meta when 808 00:39:27.449 --> 00:39:29.780 that's where they are, and you are basically ceding a 809 00:39:29.820 --> 00:39:32.179 battleground to Trump and the Republicans. 810 00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:39.099 It's interesting, though. I have no disagreements at all, but 811 00:39:39.139 --> 00:39:42.519 the debate that Elon Musk and these guys want to 812 00:39:42.579 --> 00:39:45.610 have is one about abstractions and ethics, which kind of 813 00:39:45.639 --> 00:39:48.869 makes sense because they're the worst people at college, right? 814 00:39:48.909 --> 00:39:51.510 Like that's what this group is, like the worst people 815 00:39:51.550 --> 00:39:55.250 you met in college, grown up. But like from a

816 00:39:55.329 --> 00:39:59.010 business perspective and just from a user perspective, yes, like 817 00:39:59.510 --> 00:40:01.889 what are the ethical bounds, what are the more, what 818 00:40:01.929 --> 00:40:07.420 are the like, the Kantian categorical imperatives around free speech. 819 00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:10.199 Put that aside. Who cares about any of that? Is 820 00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:12.400 this a place you want to spend your time? Is 821 00:40:12.420 --> 00:40:15.739 this a fun and exciting and cool and rewarding and 822 00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:18.900 enriching experience? The answer is no. And so you can 823 00:40:18.920 --> 00:40:22.170 have a debate about the limits of free speech on 824 00:40:22.210 --> 00:40:24.769 the internet. But from a business perspective and for us 825 00:40:24.929 --> 00:40:29.449 as users, I don't care what that ethical line is. 826 00:40:29.949 --> 00:40:32.510 I got off of Twitter and I'm a little bit happier. 827 00:40:32.530 --> 00:40:39.059 And And so when they go after Media Matters or 828 00:40:39.079 --> 00:40:41.340 they go after the left or they claim, like Elon 829 00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:44.300 Musk claims the Anti-Defamation League is silencing him. He's like, 830 00:40:44.650 --> 00:40:48.690 how dare these Jews claim I'm an anti-Semite? These fucking 831 00:40:48.730 --> 00:40:52.090 Jews won't stop saying I'm an anti-Semite. How many times 832 00:40:52.110 --> 00:40:54.280 do I have to tell these fucking Jews to get 833 00:40:54.320 --> 00:40:57.539 off my dick? I'm not an anti-Semite. It's just these 834 00:40:57.659 --> 00:41:05.400 Jews won't shut the fuck up. When will these sneaky 835 00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:08.800 fucking Jews stop telling me that I'm an anti-Semite? I'm 836 00:41:08.820 --> 00:41:13.400 going to sue these rich, sneaky, international cabal of fucking 837 00:41:13.460 --> 00:41:17.219 Jews for calling me an anti-Semite because everyone knows I 838 00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:19.869 love humans. That's what you could hear in the fucking 839 00:41:19.949 --> 00:41:26.849 background of that asshole peeing. And so the point is, 840 00:41:27.230 --> 00:41:31.710 this intellectual masturbation around free speech is not Elon Musk's problem. 841 00:41:31.949 --> 00:41:36.000 The problem is that People who treat other people like dicks, 842 00:41:36.039 --> 00:41:38.139 who treat other people like assholes, who make other people 843 00:41:38.260 --> 00:41:40.920 feel bad, that's a platform people don't want to be on, 844 00:41:41.219 --> 00:41:43.699 which means it's not a platform businesses want to advertise on. 845 00:41:43.909 --> 00:41:46.909 And that's not an ethical question. That's just a product question. 846 00:41:47.050 --> 00:41:50.070 I mean, you can have a platform that has Alex 847 00:41:50.110 --> 00:41:53.030 Jones or you can have a platform that makes money 848 00:41:53.050 --> 00:41:53.650 from advertising. 849 00:41:53.690 --> 00:41:54.750 You can't have both. Yeah. 850 00:41:55.050 --> 00:41:57.289 I mean, there's a reason that content moderation on these 851 00:41:57.329 --> 00:42:00.389 platforms generally always ends up at the same place. You 852 00:42:00.449 --> 00:42:03.289 start out saying you're a free speech absolutist and then 853 00:42:03.389 --> 00:42:05.230 a foreign government says that you're going to be booted 854 00:42:05.269 --> 00:42:07.210 out of the entire country unless you take down speech. 855 00:42:07.250 --> 00:42:09.340 And so if you're Elon Musk, you take that down real, 856 00:42:09.380 --> 00:42:12.159 real fast. And this keeps coming from every angle. Is 857 00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:15.159 child sexual exploitation allowed? Absolutely not. Is this other kind 858 00:42:15.179 --> 00:42:17.260 of speech allowed? Absolutely not. Oh, this person's getting harassed 859 00:42:17.300 --> 00:42:18.920 and doxxed and now their life is in danger. Is 860 00:42:18.960 --> 00:42:22.289 that allowed? And then you end up, well, like Meta 861 00:42:22.329 --> 00:42:24.449 or the other platforms, or you end up as you 862 00:42:24.489 --> 00:42:25.469 said with Alex Jones. 863 00:42:25.570 --> 00:42:28.909 And then one day, an impulsive man-child buys your company 864 00:42:29.070 --> 00:42:30.389 for $ 45 billion, and this is. 865 00:42:30.369 --> 00:42:30.710 Where you are. 866 00:42:31.349 --> 00:42:34.380 When you talk to people who work at other tech companies, 867 00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:37.699 the Metas, the YouTubes, are they like, thank God Elon 868 00:42:37.739 --> 00:42:38.239 bought Twitter. 869 00:42:38.260 --> 00:42:39.739 This is the best thing that's ever happened to us. 870 00:42:39.860 --> 00:42:41.000 No one talks about us anymore. 871 00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:45.300 They don't say that, but I would think that that 872 00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:47.840 is the general feeling, because the bar has been set 873 00:42:48.050 --> 00:42:49.889 at the absolute ground level at this point. 874 00:42:49.989 --> 00:42:52.260 If I worked at Facebook comms, I would buy that 875 00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:53.219 man a drink. I don't know. 876 00:42:53.260 --> 00:42:55.980 Mark Zuckerberg. Can we talk about his reputation? Like he 877 00:42:56.079 --> 00:42:59.949 looks incredible. He's had a summer of all summers. I mean, 878 00:43:00.090 --> 00:43:01.170 the PR team there. 879 00:43:00.969 --> 00:43:03.750 Is like Tybo and Taryn ACLs and no one cares. 880 00:43:03.829 --> 00:43:04.690 He's popular now. 881 00:43:05.550 --> 00:43:07.949 It's like, it's like, you know, he's like an ex 882 00:43:07.969 --> 00:43:11.010 boyfriend and it's not that he, it's not that he's better. 883 00:43:11.070 --> 00:43:12.880 He wasn't a better boyfriend in hindsight. It's just that 884 00:43:12.900 --> 00:43:17.440 the boyfriend after him was so awful. It's like, yeah. 885 00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:22.579 Um, You're like, he looked really good, actually. 886 00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:23.420 What? 887 00:43:25.780 -->

00:43:30.489 So Republicans and conservative media like to attack the Bay 888 00:43:30.570 --> 00:43:33.170 Area and the tech industry as this like lefty liberal paradise. 889 00:43:33.590 --> 00:43:37.929 And while it's certainly true that a lot of tech 890 00:43:37.949 --> 00:43:42.650 company employees are progressive, their bosses and their investors are 891 00:43:42.789 --> 00:43:46.289 often more right wing or assholes like Elon Musk or 892 00:43:46.329 --> 00:43:47.849 Peter Thiel or David Sachs. 893 00:43:47.889 --> 00:43:48.750 The list goes on and on. 894 00:43:49.130 --> 00:43:53.840 Even Twitter founder Jack Dorsey, in between yoga retreats, endorsed 895 00:43:54.019 --> 00:43:54.659 RFK Jr. 896 00:43:54.679 --> 00:43:57.980 For president. So, I mean, Zoe, do you have a 897 00:43:58.039 --> 00:43:58.469 sense of. 898 00:43:58.599 --> 00:44:01.199 Are you people surprised or disappointed or both? 899 00:44:04.699 --> 00:44:07.469 Both. Disgusted. Disgusted. That's the right response. I heard a disgusted. 900 00:44:07.510 --> 00:44:08.269 All right. 901 00:44:08.769 --> 00:44:11.530 Do you have a sense of which candidates, the kind 902 00:44:11.550 --> 00:44:14.070 of like big money players in Silicon Valley are supporting? 903 00:44:14.090 --> 00:44:15.710 I feel like they've been kind of dabbling in a 904 00:44:15.750 --> 00:44:16.429 few along the way. 905 00:44:16.969 --> 00:44:19.219 I mean, yeah, I think we can watch like the 906 00:44:19.260 --> 00:44:21.880 David Sachs's of the world and they seem to be 907 00:44:22.059 --> 00:44:27.750 trending towards Vivek and RFK Jr. I know, but I mean, 908 00:44:27.769 --> 00:44:29.590 that does seem to be like, if you follow where 909 00:44:29.610 --> 00:44:32.489 the money is and where the fundraising is happening, that 910 00:44:32.510 --> 00:44:33.110 seems to be it. 911 00:44:33.789 --> 00:44:37.420 I mean, Peter Thiel, I guess has decided to sit 912 00:44:37.460 --> 00:44:40.519 out this election and not donate to any more candidates 913 00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:44.639 in 2024. And to get himself there, he did this 914 00:44:44.699 --> 00:44:47.610 long interview with the New Yorker to announce his decision 915 00:44:47.659 --> 00:44:50.019 because he said it would force him to not change 916 00:44:50.059 --> 00:44:52.460 his mind. I guess the New Yorker is his accountability. 917 00:44:51.940 --> 00:44:52.300 Partner, as. 918 00:44:53.960 --> 00:44:56.900 Speaker Mike Johnson might say. Wouldn't it be easier to 919 00:44:56.940 --> 00:44:58.880 just tweet it out, dude, not spend 18 hours with 920 00:44:58.900 --> 00:45:00.079 Barton Gellman or whatever he did? 921 00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:01.840 That's a weird move. 922 00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:04.389 I mean, if you were to tell me that if 923 00:45:04.469 --> 00:45:06.269 I did an 18-hour interview with the New Yorker and 924 00:45:06.289 --> 00:45:08.369 I would never get another fundraising text. 925 00:45:08.110 --> 00:45:10.230 In my

life, I would do that. That does sound 926 00:45:10.250 --> 00:45:12.789 pretty good. You know what? Dan, you raise a really 927 00:45:12.829 --> 00:45:15.550 important point. We're in San Jose right now. I'll do 928 00:45:15.590 --> 00:45:19.449 my pitch again. It's called Democrat Plus. You pay a 929 00:45:19.530 --> 00:45:22.429 monthly fee and then you never get a text again. 930 00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:28.599 Join Democrat Plus today and then you don't get another 931 00:45:28.699 --> 00:45:30.579 text from a House candidate you've never heard of with 932 00:45:30.619 --> 00:45:33.460 a picture that says, I'll kill myself if you don't 933 00:45:33.519 --> 00:45:34.360 donate right now. 934 00:45:35.380 --> 00:45:37.929 The sound of those cheers means you just raised $ 30 million. 935 00:45:37.989 --> 00:45:42.929 Hell yeah. It's happening. It's happening. It's already vaporware. 936 00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:46.019 I mean, this is a hard question, but is there 937 00:45:46.059 --> 00:45:49.559 a political ethos in Silicon Valley? 938 00:45:51.280 --> 00:45:51.400 No. 939 00:45:51.579 --> 00:45:51.900 Really? 940 00:45:52.340 --> 00:45:54.199 This guy says no. That drone said no. 941 00:45:54.219 --> 00:45:57.400 I feel like there's, I mean, I think there's a 942 00:45:57.539 --> 00:45:59.909 big difference between, like you said before, the people who 943 00:45:59.929 --> 00:46:02.550 have money who are supporting the Vivex, the Ron DeSantis 944 00:46:02.590 --> 00:46:04.050 of the world, and then the people who are like 945 00:46:04.170 --> 00:46:06.329 on the ground working at these companies and are pushing 946 00:46:06.369 --> 00:46:10.489 for more progressive policies. But I think Silicon Valley kind 947 00:46:10.530 --> 00:46:13.750 of has its own ideology and it's like industry first 948 00:46:13.829 --> 00:46:16.389 in a lot of ways. But I wouldn't say that's 949 00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:18.590 reflected in the rank and file employees. 950 00:46:19.219 --> 00:46:22.679 There's also a weird amount of paranoia. And I can't 951 00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:25.619 tell if the paranoia comes with the industry or the 952 00:46:25.659 --> 00:46:28.500 paranoia comes when you have lots of money and you're 953 00:46:28.519 --> 00:46:30.559 worried about losing it. For example, in that same New 954 00:46:30.579 --> 00:46:34.239 Yorker story about Peter Thiel, Sam Altman is quoted, the CEO, 955 00:46:34.340 --> 00:46:37.199 on again, off again, CEO of OpenAI. And he said 956 00:46:37.239 --> 00:46:39.800 that in a global catastrophe, he and Peter Thiel were 957 00:46:39.820 --> 00:46:41.920 going to wait it out together in Peter Thiel's sheep 958 00:46:41.960 --> 00:46:42.940 ranch in New Zealand. 959 00:46:43.179 --> 00:46:45.159 Yeah, the prepper community. Are you new to this? 960 00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:47.019 Why are there so many preppers here? Tell us more 961 00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:47.760 about the prepper community. 962 00:46:48.780 --> 00:46:52.539 I don't really know. Yeah, I think it's, from what 963 00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:56.480 I can tell, it's like an exciting ideology that men 964 00:46:56.619 --> 00:46:59.139 in this industry, this is a generalization, but it's what 965 00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:02.170 I've seen. seem to feel like if the end of 966 00:47:02.230 --> 00:47:05.809 the world is nigh, then that's a very energizing way 967 00:47:05.869 --> 00:47:08.570 to go through life. And it justifies a lot of 968 00:47:08.610 --> 00:47:14.469 decision-making along the way. I mean, you know, it's just 969 00:47:14.489 --> 00:47:15.010 my opinion. 970 00:47:15.030 --> 00:47:21.469 There's a little bit of something where I feel like 971 00:47:21.530 --> 00:47:25.139 some of these wealthy tech people feel as though they 972 00:47:25.159 --> 00:47:27.840 got away with a heist. You know, they feel like 973 00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:30.099 they feel like they got away with something. So it 974 00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:34.230 feels a little ill-gotten. And so psychologically, it's about to go... 975 00:47:34.369 --> 00:47:37.530 It's like they're like mobsters putting cash in their... It's 976 00:47:37.570 --> 00:47:40.409 like the money that's buried with Havana on the golf course. 977 00:47:41.150 --> 00:47:43.590 You know? You know Trump put valuables down there because 978 00:47:43.630 --> 00:47:45.449 on some level he knows it can all go away 979 00:47:45.510 --> 00:47:48.960 because it's ill-gotten. And if he got it the wrong way, 980 00:47:48.980 --> 00:47:50.880 it can go just as quickly. And I feel like 981 00:47:50.900 --> 00:47:52.780 there's that. There's some little broken part of that brain 982 00:47:52.820 --> 00:47:54.260 where it's just like, I got away with something and 983 00:47:54.280 --> 00:47:56.239 at some point the world is going to catch wise. 984 00:47:56.739 --> 00:47:58.909 Which is... Why part of the end of the world 985 00:47:58.969 --> 00:48:00.630 is trying to figure out how to get their super 986 00:48:00.670 --> 00:48:03.769 soldiers to wear the neck brace that'll explode if they 987 00:48:03.809 --> 00:48:05.780 don't follow orders if money doesn't work. You know what 988 00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:05.969 I mean? 989 00:48:06.699 --> 00:48:08.599 I mean, I hear you. I do. 990 00:48:11.480 --> 00:48:12.920 It's very polite of you to pretend you know what 991 00:48:12.940 --> 00:48:17.980 he means. You guys remember that story? That the billionaires 992 00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:19.559 didn't know what to do when their money stopped working, 993 00:48:19.579 --> 00:48:21.769 so they figured out they'll put little braces, they'll put 994 00:48:21.789 --> 00:48:23.650 things around the neck so that the guys keep listening? 995 00:48:24.789 --> 00:48:27.090 I think they gotta go outside. 996 00:48:32.849 --> 00:48:33.610 Bring us back, Tavi. 997 00:48:33.630 --> 00:48:35.690 Good luck. So, I'm here. 998 00:48:36.070 --> 00:48:39.130 The last few years haven't been

the best for some 999 00:48:39.170 --> 00:48:41.809 parts of the tech community. You had higher interest rates 1000 00:48:41.889 --> 00:48:44.829 making it harder for venture capitalists to raise money for 1001 00:48:44.849 --> 00:48:46.159 the next round of whatever. 1002 00:48:46.409 --> 00:48:48.159 That's what that parade is about. We're going to do 1003 00:48:48.199 --> 00:48:49.030 that walk-a-thon for them. 1004 00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:49.659 Yes. 1005 00:48:51.159 --> 00:48:52.539 Silicon Valley Bank collapsed. 1006 00:48:52.599 --> 00:48:55.860 You had these major crypto exchanges going bankrupt. You have 1007 00:48:55.900 --> 00:48:59.079 leading figures like Sam Bankman-Fried potentially doing jail time. 1008 00:48:59.840 --> 00:49:00.260 But now. 1009 00:49:01.179 --> 00:49:03.559 All of a sudden, the price of Bitcoin is back up. 1010 00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:06.380 The New York Times just wrote an article about a 1011 00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:09.920 27-year-old who raised nearly $ 20 million to build a crypto 1012 00:49:09.980 --> 00:49:13.059 city in the Mediterranean. I'm sure that'll pan out. 1013 00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:16.000 Is the tech bubble back? 1014 00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:19.119 I mean, have you heard of artificial intelligence? 1015 00:49:19.239 --> 00:49:21.500 Tell me more. Tell me everything. 1016 00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:23.340 Yeah, I think we have a new bubble. 1017 00:49:23.719 --> 00:49:24.860 You have a new bubble and it's AI? 1018 00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:27.579 I mean, I think the tech, there's a lot of 1019 00:49:27.639 --> 00:49:29.960 money in Silicon Valley still and we will find ways 1020 00:49:30.019 --> 00:49:32.400 to funnel, and we, I'm not part of this, they 1021 00:49:32.440 --> 00:49:35.699 will find ways to funnel it into various projects and 1022 00:49:35.719 --> 00:49:39.559 I think artificial intelligence is you know, has more legitimacy, 1023 00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:42.420 I would say, than crypto, but definitely it's where the 1024 00:49:42.440 --> 00:49:43.079 money is at now. 1025 00:49:43.400 --> 00:49:45.119 I mean, I just feel like there's this real urgency 1026 00:49:45.179 --> 00:49:48.719 because there hasn't been a new thing since a smartphone 1027 00:49:48.739 --> 00:49:49.179 was invented. 1028 00:49:49.219 --> 00:49:50.500 So we're at 15 years from now. 1029 00:49:50.539 --> 00:49:52.139 So it's like, we're waiting for the thing that's going 1030 00:49:52.179 --> 00:49:53.760 to create all this new wealth and crypto was supposed 1031 00:49:53.780 --> 00:49:54.300 to be that thing. 1032 00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:57.500 And then it wasn't. And so now it's AI. 1033 00:49:57.559 --> 00:49:59.460 And so if you just put, like, there are all these, 1034 00:49:59.579 --> 00:50:01.199 I mean, you've written many of these stories with these 1035 00:50:01.219 --> 00:50:03.650 people who just basically put AI in a deck and 1036 00:50:03.670 --> 00:50:05.690 people are throwing millions of dollars at them. 1037 00:50:05.769 --> 00:50:05.969 Yeah. 1038 00:50:06.050 --> 00:50:08.300 It's like it's AI for dog food. 1039 00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:11.519 And you're like, AI powered dog food. Take my money. Yeah. Well, 1040 00:50:11.539 --> 00:50:13.699 the alternative is that Apple's like, now the phone has 1041 00:50:13.900 --> 00:50:15.460 four cameras. Why? 1042 00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:17.760 It's like, hey, people, I don't know how much time 1043 00:50:17.780 --> 00:50:19.079 you spent with your Alexa recently, but I think I'm 1044 00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:20.159 going to be smarter in 15 years. 1045 00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:22.369 I want to read you an email I received from 1046 00:50:22.389 --> 00:50:26.269 my friend Samir on May 30th, 2011. This is real. 1047 00:50:27.769 --> 00:50:31.030 Speaking of crackpot financial schemes, anyone want to buy some bitcoins? 1048 00:50:31.050 --> 00:50:31.119 Yes. 1049 00:50:32.219 --> 00:50:34.360 I want you to know that we decided not to 1050 00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:36.980 buy Bitcoins that day because we had a different stock 1051 00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:48.949 we were interested in. It was TiVo. Adisu, you're still... 1052 00:50:49.510 --> 00:50:53.420 in politics. That's real. Working on campaigns. You're cutting ass. 1053 00:50:53.449 --> 00:50:54.389 Or you were before tonight. 1054 00:50:55.610 --> 00:50:58.570 The like hope and the anxiety and the democratic party 1055 00:50:58.699 --> 00:51:02.239 is all about the impact of AI potentially on campaigns. 1056 00:51:02.539 --> 00:51:04.579 Are you seeing any of this play out in this cycle? 1057 00:51:04.880 --> 00:51:08.500 Yeah. I, if I'm not mistaken yesterday in a Pennsylvania 1058 00:51:08.539 --> 00:51:11.960 house race, um, I don't ask me why I know this. 1059 00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:14.420 AI was used to phone bank for the first time. 1060 00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:14.699 Really? 1061 00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:18.429 Literally like a, like a, conversation with a voter via 1062 00:51:18.550 --> 00:51:20.429 a robot, basically. I'm going to go out on a 1063 00:51:20.469 --> 00:51:24.030 limb and say it probably wasn't that effective. But I 1064 00:51:24.030 --> 00:51:25.710 think we're, yes, the short answer is we're at the 1065 00:51:25.769 --> 00:51:28.230 beginning of what I think is going to be potentially 1066 00:51:28.309 --> 00:51:33.769 a scary, potentially exciting revolution of every industry when it 1067 00:51:33.829 --> 00:51:36.429 comes to AI, but politics as well. 1068 00:51:36.510 --> 00:51:37.690 And so it's. 1069 00:51:37.630 --> 00:51:41.190 Not, I think back to 08, was it Facebook in 1070 00:51:41.190 --> 00:51:41.909 08 or Twitter? 1071 00:51:41.929 --> 00:51:44.309 Maybe it was Facebook in 04. It was Facebook. Facebook 1072 00:51:44.469 --> 00:51:45.320 in 08 and Twitter in 12 and. 1073 00:51:47.059 --> 00:51:50.159 You know, there's always something in a cycle that becomes 1074 00:51:50.199 --> 00:51:51.019 the next big thing. 1075

00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:51.440 Until it's not. 1076 00:51:51.980 --> 00:51:52.920 In 2020, it was COVID. 1077 00:51:55.860 --> 00:51:57.019 That stuck around for a while. 1078 00:51:57.300 --> 00:51:59.699 But I'm not sure if this is going to be 1079 00:51:59.719 --> 00:52:02.079 the AI cycle or another one, but I do think 1080 00:52:02.099 --> 00:52:04.119 it's coming because I actually think it can be potentially 1081 00:52:04.139 --> 00:52:08.059 very helpful to our industry. I also think it's very 1082 00:52:08.099 --> 00:52:12.010 dangerous because, you know, when it comes to jobs and, 1083 00:52:12.090 --> 00:52:14.630 you know, we usually have human beings making phone calls, 1084 00:52:14.670 --> 00:52:18.530 for example, and If AI gets really good at phone calls, 1085 00:52:19.489 --> 00:52:20.809 goodbye field organizing, right? 1086 00:52:21.349 --> 00:52:23.010 It becomes a lot cheaper to do that, et cetera. 1087 00:52:23.510 --> 00:52:25.190 So we're not there yet. 1088 00:52:25.289 --> 00:52:26.969 I don't think this is the cycle probably where it 1089 00:52:27.010 --> 00:52:29.570 takes over, but we're all going to have to figure 1090 00:52:29.590 --> 00:52:31.429 this out just like we figured out every other tech 1091 00:52:31.449 --> 00:52:32.949 thing for the last 20 years I've been doing this. 1092 00:52:33.489 --> 00:52:41.610 I do worry, though. We see with artificial images that 1093 00:52:41.659 --> 00:52:45.500 the threat isn't people thinking fake things are real, well, 1094 00:52:45.619 --> 00:52:47.519 that is a threat, but just as big as the 1095 00:52:47.559 --> 00:52:50.860 threat that people start seeing real things as fake, that 1096 00:52:51.059 --> 00:52:53.619 you start to doubt whatever you see and whatever you hear. Already, 1097 00:52:53.639 --> 00:52:56.699 I think, I know that I am deluged with text 1098 00:52:56.719 --> 00:53:00.719 messages and phone calls that I don't answer. And even 1099 00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:04.289 if you have an AI phone call that can just 1100 00:53:04.349 --> 00:53:06.969 as effectively reach people, really what you're doing is creating 1101 00:53:07.010 --> 00:53:11.269 a device to make phone calls more ubiquitous and then 1102 00:53:11.329 --> 00:53:17.050 less useful as a result, which... like we've been talking 1103 00:53:17.070 --> 00:53:19.400 about this in a bunch of different ways, but like 1104 00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:22.199 so much of what politics is now is figuring out 1105 00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:24.300 how to break through the noise and break through the clutter. 1106 00:53:24.980 --> 00:53:27.840 And for years and years, like we basically built a 1107 00:53:27.880 --> 00:53:33.750 kind of information system that values almost true, kind of dull, 1108 00:53:34.269 --> 00:53:42.349 kind of semi-emotional things that like, that feel true, but 1109 00:53:42.369 --> 00:53:45.289 aren't necessarily true. And that's a perfect thing for artificial 1110 00:53:45.309 --> 00:53:48.769 intelligence to generate vast amounts of. And so like we 1111 00:53:48.809 --> 00:53:51.860 kind of devalued information and then built a system that 1112 00:53:51.880 --> 00:53:53.900 can make it even cheaper. And like, I don't know 1113 00:53:53.960 --> 00:53:56.039 what happens on the other side of it, but maybe 1114 00:53:56.079 --> 00:53:57.739 we have to, maybe the only way out is through. 1115 00:53:59.440 --> 00:54:04.469 The intersection of politics in AI is incredibly fascinating, right? 1116 00:54:04.489 --> 00:54:07.309 There's all the dangers of deep fake videos and all 1117 00:54:07.329 --> 00:54:09.289 of that. And I think Lovett raised a really important point, 1118 00:54:09.309 --> 00:54:12.679 which is I'm sure you've seen this, but people are 1119 00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:16.590 so skeptical right now of politicians and political ads that 1120 00:54:16.610 --> 00:54:19.050 the only ads that really work are the ones that 1121 00:54:19.269 --> 00:54:23.010 use a politician in their own unedited voice, where it's 1122 00:54:23.030 --> 00:54:25.630 just like footage of Donald Trump saying something, or a 1123 00:54:25.829 --> 00:54:29.699 voter making a regular person who's not a politician explaining 1124 00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:31.400 why it would be bad to take the Affordable Care 1125 00:54:31.420 --> 00:54:31.699 Act away. 1126 00:54:31.760 --> 00:54:33.619 The Biden campaign has an ad up like that right now. 1127 00:54:34.360 --> 00:54:38.280 And AI actually has the potential to render the first one, 1128 00:54:38.300 --> 00:54:42.059 not actual AI, but the prospect of AI. Donald Trump 1129 00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:44.980 has already said that a very legitimate video of his 1130 00:54:45.420 --> 00:54:47.889 was a deep fake. And he's going to do that 1131 00:54:47.969 --> 00:54:50.369 throughout this campaign. And so that's a big thing. But 1132 00:54:50.389 --> 00:54:52.610 then there's some other really bad ways in which AI 1133 00:54:52.710 --> 00:54:55.170 or annoying ways that AI has affected us, which is 1134 00:54:55.190 --> 00:54:57.630 the only thing that's preventing us from getting more fundraising 1135 00:54:57.690 --> 00:55:00.260 emails and texts is the time it takes to write those. 1136 00:55:01.179 --> 00:55:03.019 And then when you take that friction out of you're 1137 00:55:03.039 --> 00:55:08.110 just asking chat GPT to send you an insane text about, 1138 00:55:08.489 --> 00:55:10.610 you know, how, why the entire world's going to come 1139 00:55:10.630 --> 00:55:12.050 to an end. If you don't give money to a pack, 1140 00:55:12.090 --> 00:55:14.449 you've never heard of five minutes ago like that. And 1141 00:55:14.570 --> 00:55:17.360 it's going to reward the worst, like most grifty players. 1142 00:55:17.800 --> 00:55:19.599 But there are other ways in which I think it's incredibly, 1143 00:55:19.719 --> 00:55:23.239 it could be incredibly useful because ultimately politics is the, 1144

00:55:23.679 --> 00:55:26.480 is the marriage of art and science and words and data. 1145 00:55:26.780 --> 00:55:30.030 And there are ways to think much more to understand 1146 00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:33.829 what politicians are saying and at every level, right? Whether it's, 1147 00:55:34.239 --> 00:55:36.719 There's all this scrutiny on what comes out of President 1148 00:55:36.760 --> 00:55:39.780 Biden's mouth in the campaign. Is that the right message? 1149 00:55:39.800 --> 00:55:40.940 What's between the speech? What's between the ads? 1150 00:55:41.360 --> 00:55:43.719 But you could then take the data you're using to 1151 00:55:43.760 --> 00:55:46.460 inform that and apply it across every conversation that every 1152 00:55:46.500 --> 00:55:48.820 voter is having. This is not saying we're going to 1153 00:55:48.860 --> 00:55:51.610 create a fake chatbot to add that conversation, but by 1154 00:55:52.449 --> 00:55:56.150 sort of smoothing out the process by which you're using 1155 00:55:56.210 --> 00:56:00.030 the most optimized messages in every single interaction. And that 1156 00:56:00.090 --> 00:56:03.090 is like a very, very interesting thing. And my DMs 1157 00:56:03.110 --> 00:56:04.900 are open on LinkedIn if anyone wants to talk about it. 1158 00:56:06.449 --> 00:56:11.039 Zoe, interestingly, for all the anxiety about AI and deepfakes 1159 00:56:11.139 --> 00:56:14.360 and things ahead of us, it does seem like a 1160 00:56:14.420 --> 00:56:17.460 lot of people have been driven off Twitter recently, not 1161 00:56:17.519 --> 00:56:21.340 because of deepfakes, but because of people surfacing old videos 1162 00:56:21.380 --> 00:56:23.460 and saying that they were from Gaza when really they 1163 00:56:23.500 --> 00:56:25.440 were Syria in 2015. 1164 00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:27.039 Is that a Twitter-specific problem, or what do you think 1165 00:56:27.059 --> 00:56:27.519 is happening there? 1166 00:56:28.079 --> 00:56:28.679 Yeah, I mean. 1167 00:56:30.219 --> 00:56:33.869 Elon Musk has promoted a crowdsourced fact-checking tool as the 1168 00:56:33.909 --> 00:56:36.530 first line of defense between telling fact from fiction on 1169 00:56:36.570 --> 00:56:40.150 his platform. And I think we've seen more recently that 1170 00:56:40.190 --> 00:56:43.510 that's woefully inadequate in times of crisis. We need a 1171 00:56:43.510 --> 00:56:47.610 multi-pronged approach, especially during an election. And that's going to 1172 00:56:47.650 --> 00:56:50.949 take human content moderators, and it's going to take AI, 1173 00:56:51.030 --> 00:56:54.110 and it's going to take sophisticated tools. And the trust 1174 00:56:54.130 --> 00:56:56.769 and safety team at X is a shadow of its 1175 00:56:56.809 --> 00:57:00.230 former self. They've really devalued and under-invested in all of 1176 00:57:00.250 --> 00:57:01.469 these things, and I think that's going to be an 1177 00:57:01.530 --> 00:57:03.489 enormous problem in the coming election. 1178 00:57:04.269 --> 00:57:06.489 I hate the community notes thing. It's obviously a ridiculous thing. 1179 00:57:06.530 --> 00:57:11.639 But I will say that someone attacked Taylor Swift when 1180 00:57:11.659 --> 00:57:13.679 she was named the Time Woman of the Year, saying, 1181 00:57:14.199 --> 00:57:18.000 how could this billionaire person who could end the war 1182 00:57:18.079 --> 00:57:21.860 in Gaza with one Instagram post get this award? And 1183 00:57:22.039 --> 00:57:25.800 the community notes thing was, Traditionally, Instagram posts have not 1184 00:57:25.880 --> 00:57:27.320 ended century-old conflicts. 1185 00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:33.960 That was truly a great one. What a ridiculous thing 1186 00:57:33.980 --> 00:57:35.800 to think Taylor Swift could do. That's not what she 1187 00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:37.460 could do. What she could do is solve a lot 1188 00:57:37.500 --> 00:57:38.840 of unsolved murders. 1189 00:57:43.300 --> 00:57:46.300 On Tuesday, a jury in San Francisco ruled in favor 1190 00:57:46.500 --> 00:57:49.920 of Fortnite maker Epic Games in their lawsuit against Google. 1191 00:57:50.309 --> 00:57:52.590 Epic Games claimed that Google had an illegal monopoly in 1192 00:57:52.610 --> 00:57:55.909 the Google Play Store. After the win, Epic Games CEO 1193 00:57:55.949 --> 00:57:58.030 Tim Sweeney told The Verge, quote, it's a great day 1194 00:57:58.070 --> 00:58:01.019 for all developers to see that the Sherman Antitrust Act 1195 00:58:01.059 --> 00:58:04.239 works in the new era of tech monopolies. How big 1196 00:58:04.260 --> 00:58:06.420 a deal do you think this decision is? And do 1197 00:58:06.440 --> 00:58:09.559 you think it's going to impact other antitrust cases going forward? 1198 00:58:10.159 --> 00:58:12.019 Yeah, I mean, it's a really big deal, although I 1199 00:58:12.059 --> 00:58:15.019 will say we're a few years out from knowing exactly 1200 00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:17.139 what the final answer to this is. Google has already 1201 00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:21.289 said that it's going to appeal to If the ruling stands, 1202 00:58:21.489 --> 00:58:23.650 then I think we can expect to see a more 1203 00:58:23.730 --> 00:58:27.710 robust app ecosystem where smaller developers are able to circumvent 1204 00:58:27.889 --> 00:58:32.690 Google's in-app fees, which are 30% right now. And we 1205 00:58:32.730 --> 00:58:34.969 might see multiple app stores and all of that is 1206 00:58:35.260 --> 00:58:38.039 very good for consumers. But I do think it's a 1207 00:58:38.059 --> 00:58:41.260 little early to know what this could mean for Apple 1208 00:58:41.380 --> 00:58:42.559 and other big tech companies. 1209 00:58:42.739 --> 00:58:45.940 Because Epic lost the same suit against Apple, right? Because 1210 00:58:45.980 --> 00:58:48.139 Apple makes the phones. So they had a different set 1211 00:58:48.159 --> 00:58:48.380 of rules. 1212 00:58:48.440 --> 00:58:49.269 Is that right? Yeah. 1213 00:58:49.349 --> 00:58:53.530 And

also Google won a similar case that was decided 1214 00:58:53.610 --> 00:58:56.300 by a judge last year. And so I think it's 1215 00:58:56.340 --> 00:58:58.380 still a total question mark. This was a jury trial, 1216 00:58:58.400 --> 00:58:59.659 which ended up being quite important. 1217 00:59:00.420 --> 00:59:02.179 This is also a case where I think President Biden 1218 00:59:02.199 --> 00:59:04.030 has gotten a lot of credit for putting in place 1219 00:59:04.699 --> 00:59:08.130 regulators who have a track record of writing and thinking 1220 00:59:08.150 --> 00:59:09.530 and saying things that I think are a lot tougher 1221 00:59:09.550 --> 00:59:12.809 on tech monetization. Do you think the toughness of those 1222 00:59:12.889 --> 00:59:16.250 appointees has played out in practice in terms of, I 1223 00:59:16.269 --> 00:59:18.630 don't know, even changing behavior in Silicon Valley? 1224 00:59:19.610 --> 00:59:21.730 I don't know. I mean, when we think of the FTC, 1225 00:59:21.769 --> 00:59:25.230 we certainly have a much stronger FTC and more aggressive 1226 00:59:25.329 --> 00:59:28.239 FTC than we have in the past. At the same time, 1227 00:59:28.860 --> 00:59:31.199 Lena Kahn, like there've been a lot of losses. And 1228 00:59:31.219 --> 00:59:33.179 I think that was part of the strategy. You all 1229 00:59:33.219 --> 00:59:35.539 might know better than me, but my understanding of her 1230 00:59:35.579 --> 00:59:38.429 approach was we're going to take really big swings and 1231 00:59:38.449 --> 00:59:40.070 there will be a lot of losses along the way, 1232 00:59:40.170 --> 00:59:42.989 but we have to take a stand for consumers and 1233 00:59:43.090 --> 00:59:46.489 change the definition of what the FTC is really here 1234 00:59:46.650 --> 00:59:51.150 to do. So I think it's actually, it's kind of 1235 00:59:51.210 --> 00:59:52.929 yet to be determined what all of that looks like, 1236 00:59:52.949 --> 00:59:54.559 but people are definitely paying attention. 1237 00:59:54.900 --> 00:59:57.429 It's interesting because Donald Trump you know, likes to pretend 1238 00:59:57.489 --> 00:59:59.630 he's like this big populist, but there are a lot 1239 00:59:59.670 --> 01:00:03.920 of these tech companies who are basically putting on pause 1240 01:00:03.960 --> 01:00:07.159 the idea of merging or acquiring someone to see what 1241 01:00:07.179 --> 01:00:09.079 happens in the election. Because if Donald Trump gets in, 1242 01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:13.699 that'd be much better in their view for big tech monopolies, right? 1243 01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:16.960 And that's actually going to, I think, that's not the 1244 01:00:17.000 --> 01:00:20.139 exact argument, but it's part of the overall populist case 1245 01:00:20.159 --> 01:00:23.250 that Biden can make is that Donald Trump is going to, 1246 01:00:23.570 --> 01:00:26.969 that they're rooting for him because it is better for 1247 01:00:27.050 --> 01:00:29.750 monopolies and big, huge companies under

Trump because they're scared 1248 01:00:29.769 --> 01:00:31.329 that Joe Biden is going to enforce antitrust laws. 1249 01:00:32.070 --> 01:00:32.150 Yeah. 1250 01:00:32.190 --> 01:00:35.179 I also do think sometimes this debate, like the risks 1251 01:00:35.260 --> 01:00:37.699 posed by these companies being so big and having monopolies, 1252 01:00:37.719 --> 01:00:40.260 like that creates one set of very big challenges. And 1253 01:00:40.280 --> 01:00:43.280 I think it's really important that we have aggressive antitrust 1254 01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:47.480 laws and regulations. But I also think it sometimes is 1255 01:00:47.519 --> 01:00:49.780 a quick thing for, I think, politicians to say to 1256 01:00:49.820 --> 01:00:52.039 like kind of wave off some of the issues that 1257 01:00:52.099 --> 01:00:54.159 actually don't have as much to do with the size 1258 01:00:54.179 --> 01:00:59.989 of these companies. Like uh, issues of, of, of, of, uh, misinformation, 1259 01:01:00.110 --> 01:01:02.500 privacy issues. Like I think the fact that these companies 1260 01:01:02.619 --> 01:01:05.340 are so enormous and have so much power impacts the 1261 01:01:05.360 --> 01:01:07.300 ways in which they don't have to respect consumer privacy, 1262 01:01:07.340 --> 01:01:10.300 consumer rights. They don't have to worry about, about regulation 1263 01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:12.739 in part because of their influence and their lobbying. But 1264 01:01:13.840 --> 01:01:17.190 regardless of whether they break Amazon in half or spin 1265 01:01:17.210 --> 01:01:20.170 off the, you know, spin off, uh, um, make, you know, 1266 01:01:20.190 --> 01:01:24.489 give the, allowing WhatsApp to be under, under, uh, um, 1267 01:01:25.070 --> 01:01:30.440 Who bought that, Meta? Meta. Regardless, we need a privacy law. Regardless, 1268 01:01:31.219 --> 01:01:33.659 we need regulation of these companies. 1269 01:01:33.940 --> 01:01:35.820 Yeah, 100%. 1270 01:01:35.820 --> 01:01:37.820 Okay, we're going to take a quick break. When we 1271 01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:39.199 come back, we're going to play a game. 1272 01:01:53.070 --> 01:01:53.670 And we're back. 1273 01:01:58.619 --> 01:02:03.579 Thank you all for joining us this evening. The most 1274 01:02:03.619 --> 01:02:06.289 American questions are the questions the people of San Jose 1275 01:02:06.349 --> 01:02:09.929 ask every day. Can we squeeze any money out of meditation? 1276 01:02:12.309 --> 01:02:14.710 Would people pay a monthly fee to access extra features 1277 01:02:14.769 --> 01:02:18.469 on their smart blender? How can we brand our toilet 1278 01:02:18.489 --> 01:02:22.869 camera in a way that assuages privacy concerns? What if 1279 01:02:22.909 --> 01:02:25.360 we could make life a little better and worse while 1280 01:02:25.380 --> 01:02:30.860 getting filthy fucking rich? So it's time for a game 1281 01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:40.820 we're calling, cue the slide, Tech Tech Boom. Zoe and 1282 01:02:40.840 --> 01:02:44.530 Dan will be one team. Disu and Tommy will be 1283 01:02:44.550 --> 01:02:47.570 the other. I will alternate asking each team a weird 1284 01:02:47.610 --> 01:02:49.710 tech industry question. If they can't answer the question, the 1285 01:02:49.750 --> 01:02:51.869 other team has the chance to steal. Are you ready? Yes. 1286 01:02:51.989 --> 01:02:52.389 Born ready. 1287 01:02:53.150 --> 01:02:54.369 Question first will start. 1288 01:02:54.739 --> 01:02:56.210 Do we have to buzz or something? 1289 01:02:56.230 --> 01:02:58.130 No, we'll alternate. Don't worry, I got this. 1290 01:02:58.289 --> 01:03:00.170 Okay, I believe you. 1291 01:03:01.769 --> 01:03:04.230 Ish. You question, if it was Ken Jennings, you would 1292 01:03:04.250 --> 01:03:10.170 just trust him. Because I happen to be a drunk idiot. 1293 01:03:13.170 --> 01:03:15.909 Just yesterday, the New York Times profiled a 27-year-old NYU 1294 01:03:15.929 --> 01:03:18.010 dropout who is raising money to build a crypto city 1295 01:03:18.030 --> 01:03:21.559 for tech bros and tastemakers in the Mediterranean. What is 1296 01:03:21.599 --> 01:03:23.900 that guy's name? And what is the name of the 1297 01:03:23.960 --> 01:03:27.159 tech utopia he reportedly tried to build in Ghana before pivoting? 1298 01:03:27.800 --> 01:03:28.800 Praxis is this. 1299 01:03:28.820 --> 01:03:31.860 Yeah, that's the current one. His name is Dryden Brown. 1300 01:03:32.019 --> 01:03:34.920 That is correct. I was going to give you multiple choice. No, no, no. 1301 01:03:35.019 --> 01:03:37.199 Shout out to Santa Barbara. He's from my hometown. 1302 01:03:38.340 --> 01:03:42.179 We are screwed. Tommy and Adisu. We're so fucked. Bill 1303 01:03:42.510 --> 01:03:45.230 in the blank. One of the internal slides revealed by 1304 01:03:45.250 --> 01:03:48.590 the Wall Street Journal's Facebook files is a slide titled, 1305 01:03:48.909 --> 01:03:53.090 user experience of blank is exacerbated by our platform, complete 1306 01:03:53.110 --> 01:03:56.210 with a graph outlining how teen girls experience severe negative 1307 01:03:56.250 --> 01:04:01.239 mental health outcomes by using Instagram. What is that user experience? 1308 01:04:01.800 --> 01:04:08.190 Is this multiple choice? No. I think... Their experience of blank. 1309 01:04:09.030 --> 01:04:09.969 I'd like to phone a friend. 1310 01:04:09.989 --> 01:04:12.849 Do you want to steal? Is it filters? 1311 01:04:13.329 --> 01:04:13.510 No. 1312 01:04:13.570 --> 01:04:17.480 No, no. It's an emotional experience. Wait, wait. 1313 01:04:17.539 --> 01:04:18.960 Sorry. Can you read that just one more time? 1314 01:04:19.099 --> 01:04:23.019 The user's experience of blank is exacerbated by our platform. 1315 01:04:23.360 --> 01:04:26.340 And it's about teen girls experiencing negative mental health outcomes. 1316 01:04:26.679 --> 01:04:29.949 Something to do with B? 1317 01:04:30.230 --> 01:04:32.389 I heard body dysmorphia. You're in the ballpark. 1318 01:04:32.409 -->

01:04:32.969 Oh, okay. 1319 01:04:33.949 --> 01:04:39.409 Body image? It was just downward spiral. Their experience of 1320 01:04:39.699 --> 01:04:40.780 downward spiral. 1321 01:04:40.880 --> 01:04:42.440 I feel like I need to work on the Mad Libs. 1322 01:04:42.539 --> 01:04:43.260 Yikes. 1323 01:04:44.960 --> 01:04:51.019 That's sad but hard to guess. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. And 1324 01:04:51.039 --> 01:04:55.840 so is hard. Who cares? Who tweeted, Tommy and Adisu, 1325 01:04:55.880 --> 01:04:58.719 the coronavirus panic is dumb on March 6, 2020? Elon Musk. 1326 01:04:58.760 --> 01:05:05.550 Elon Musk. Correct. starting a nearly uninterrupted four-year string of 1327 01:05:05.610 --> 01:05:09.079 being awesome. Dan and Zoe. 1328 01:05:09.090 --> 01:05:10.199 I'll read my book to find out more. 1329 01:05:10.550 --> 01:05:13.139 Which startup launched by Jeffrey Katzenberg is considered one of 1330 01:05:13.179 --> 01:05:14.760 the biggest failed startups in history? 1331 01:05:14.860 --> 01:05:14.960 Quibi. 1332 01:05:14.980 --> 01:05:19.380 Yep, you got it. They were in our building. They 1333 01:05:19.400 --> 01:05:23.909 were in our building. Tommy and Adisu Juicero, a famous flop, 1334 01:05:24.510 --> 01:05:27.909 sold a $ 400 Wi-Fi-connected juice press that used proprietary packets 1335 01:05:27.929 --> 01:05:33.809 of pre-mangled fruits. Bottomed out. Because Y, A, you could 1336 01:05:33.829 --> 01:05:37.489 buy juice at the store. B, there were more affordable juicers. C, 1337 01:05:37.670 --> 01:05:40.449 you could squeeze juice with your hands. Or D, you 1338 01:05:40.469 --> 01:05:41.690 could eat a piece of fucking fruit. 1339 01:05:44.909 --> 01:05:47.800 I remember this story well because I was a little 1340 01:05:47.880 --> 01:05:49.880 drift in my career at the time and I had 1341 01:05:49.920 --> 01:05:52.780 a meeting with a really smart, really nice person. 1342 01:05:52.820 --> 01:05:53.960 I actually think Dan connected me with. 1343 01:05:55.179 --> 01:05:58.280 We talked about a bunch of different interesting things happening 1344 01:05:58.300 --> 01:05:59.840 in Silicon Valley. I lived in San Francisco at the 1345 01:05:59.860 --> 01:06:02.510 time and Juicero came up And I was like, oh, 1346 01:06:02.510 --> 01:06:04.349 that sounds cool, but I'm not like a juice guy. 1347 01:06:04.710 --> 01:06:06.489 But it turned out you could just squeeze the pack. 1348 01:06:06.610 --> 01:06:09.469 That's correct. You could just squeeze the juice out of them. 1349 01:06:09.510 --> 01:06:13.570 You didn't need the $ 400, like, timed release system that 1350 01:06:13.590 --> 01:06:15.429 sat in your kitchen to. 1351 01:06:14.929 --> 01:06:17.750 Squeeze the pack. Insane. And remember it was also, it 1352 01:06:18.590 --> 01:06:22.360 was like, it was end user license agreement, like, fucked 1353 01:06:22.380 --> 01:06:24.840 with so that, like, if your juice packet was past 1354 01:06:24.880 --> 01:06:27.039 a certain date, the machine wouldn't squeeze it for you. 1355 01:06:27.690 --> 01:06:29.409 But your hands still cook. 1356 01:06:29.429 --> 01:06:31.309 Yeah, like a machine would be like, no, no, this 1357 01:06:31.329 --> 01:06:32.809 juice is not for you. Get other juice. 1358 01:06:33.269 --> 01:06:35.409 Are the other answers incorrect or is that one just 1359 01:06:35.489 --> 01:06:38.760 super correct? Because I think you can just eat some 1360 01:06:38.800 --> 01:06:39.300 fucking fruit. 1361 01:06:39.360 --> 01:06:41.800 Oh, yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. 1362 01:06:41.820 --> 01:06:44.039 You got the right answer. I don't know why you're arguing. 1363 01:06:44.380 --> 01:06:45.840 Take the points. 1364 01:06:47.019 --> 01:06:47.539 I'll take the points. 1365 01:06:47.559 --> 01:06:53.099 I didn't think of that. Which disgraced tech mogul's lawyer 1366 01:06:53.219 --> 01:06:55.119 told the media this week that his client may be 1367 01:06:55.159 --> 01:06:58.260 at the very top of the list as the worst 1368 01:06:58.360 --> 01:07:03.250 person I've ever seen do a cross-examination? Sam Bankman-Fried. That 1369 01:07:03.309 --> 01:07:06.469 is correct. His lawyer said that to Bloomberg. 1370 01:07:08.130 --> 01:07:10.309 Is he in jail currently or is he on home arrest? 1371 01:07:11.750 --> 01:07:13.280 Wait, I thought he was in jail, but I'm hearing 1372 01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:14.960 home arrest. But I'm not a crypto gal. 1373 01:07:15.139 --> 01:07:17.280 I think he got sent to jail for doing too 1374 01:07:17.320 --> 01:07:17.800 much internet. 1375 01:07:18.179 --> 01:07:18.440 Yeah. Yeah. 1376 01:07:19.199 --> 01:07:21.260 It's like talking to Michael Lewis like 500 times. 1377 01:07:21.409 --> 01:07:22.849 That is accurate. 1378 01:07:23.809 --> 01:07:29.570 It's a good Democrat you're talking about. All right. Tech 1379 01:07:29.610 --> 01:07:32.199 weirdo Brian Johnson made a splash this fall by insisting 1380 01:07:32.239 --> 01:07:34.780 he had actually lowered the biological age of his penis 1381 01:07:36.179 --> 01:07:40.199 by 15 years. How did he claim to do this? Hint, 1382 01:07:40.869 --> 01:07:48.260 it's your second thought. I have no idea. How did 1383 01:07:48.300 --> 01:07:50.960 he claim he lowered the age of his penis by 1384 01:07:50.960 --> 01:07:54.880 15 years? Like the weights that kind of pull on it? 1385 01:07:55.679 --> 01:08:02.070 So that's your first thought. What's your second thought? You 1386 01:08:02.550 --> 01:08:03.320 guys want to steal it? 1387 01:08:03.570 --> 01:08:04.070 Yeah. 1388 01:08:04.139 --> 01:08:04.889 Nope. Giggles. 1389 01:08:04.909 --> 01:08:05.909 I feel like it's all them. 1390 01:08:07.329 --> 01:08:12.989 Anybody out there want to guess? That's right. By electrocuting 1391 01:08:13.030 --> 01:08:17.539 his penis. According to Johnson, there's this technology. You have 1392 01:08:17.560 --> 01:08:19.420 a wand and you sit in a chair and the 1393 01:08:19.460 --> 01:08:24.020

technician uses the wand and basically shocks your penis. Hey, 1394 01:08:24.539 --> 01:08:27.579 remember when smart people used to invent airplanes and antibiotics? 1395 01:08:30.510 --> 01:08:40.470 No one got that one. I also just like, why 1396 01:08:40.510 --> 01:08:45.069 did he think it worked? During her trial, jurors heard, 1397 01:08:45.109 --> 01:08:48.909 who's up? Let's go this way. Tommy, pay attention. This 1398 01:08:48.939 --> 01:08:51.000 is our last show of the year, guys. During her trial, 1399 01:08:51.020 --> 01:09:02.979 the thing is, thing they used to shock me, John 1400 01:09:03.020 --> 01:09:07.520 has it. During her trial, jurors heard Theranos' Elizabeth Holmes 1401 01:09:07.560 --> 01:09:10.180 make a number of false claims to journalist Roger Parloff, 1402 01:09:10.199 --> 01:09:12.340 who recorded their interviews for Peace and Fortune. Which of 1403 01:09:12.380 --> 01:09:15.319 these was not a lie? Which was not a lie 1404 01:09:15.979 --> 01:09:19.489 that Holmes told us during those interviews? A, that Theranos 1405 01:09:19.510 --> 01:09:21.970 had worked with the US military in Afghanistan, B, that 1406 01:09:21.989 --> 01:09:24.909 Theranos had worked for foreign governments, that C, Theranos had 1407 01:09:24.949 --> 01:09:28.210 worked with border security, D, that Theranos had worked correctly 1408 01:09:28.229 --> 01:09:31.689 when performing over 600 tests, making it competitive with Quest Diagnostics. 1409 01:09:32.329 --> 01:09:33.989 That one's a lie, right? Yeah, it's got to be. Well, 1410 01:09:34.010 --> 01:09:36.630 they're all, which is the lie she didn't tell? Oh, okay. 1411 01:09:36.750 --> 01:09:38.250 It's such a confusing question. 1412 01:09:38.310 --> 01:09:38.909 She told? 1413 01:09:39.130 --> 01:09:40.289 It's like jazz. 1414 01:09:40.310 --> 01:09:42.590 Afghanistan? No, because she would do. 1415 01:09:42.810 --> 01:09:44.840 No, the Afghanistan one I think is real because that 1416 01:09:44.850 --> 01:09:47.159 was part of their, they had Jim Mattis on the board. 1417 01:09:47.380 --> 01:09:47.560 Yeah. 1418 01:09:47.989 --> 01:09:48.430 Oh, there you go. 1419 01:09:48.430 --> 01:09:51.989 Okay, so Afghanistan. Defense secretary. I think it's the. 1420 01:09:53.479 --> 01:09:55.340 They worked with people overseas. 1421 01:09:54.840 --> 01:09:55.159 Is my guess. 1422 01:09:55.180 --> 01:09:57.199 Yeah, let's go with that one. Incorrect. It was the border. 1423 01:09:57.380 --> 01:09:58.979 I thought we had to steal it. Did you know 1424 01:09:59.000 --> 01:10:03.579 the answer? Border patrol, obviously. You got it. I believe you. 1425 01:10:03.920 --> 01:10:09.319 You're trusting. You have a trustworthy face. Dan and Zoe. 1426 01:10:09.840 --> 01:10:12.800 Which of these unfortunately named failed apps is a real 1427 01:10:12.960 --> 01:10:15.760 unfortunately named failed app? In other words, one of these 1428 01:10:15.840 --> 01:10:24.029 is real. A... Hitler, no vowels. A music

app designed 1429 01:10:24.069 --> 01:10:26.750 for users to upload their hits and have them reviewed 1430 01:10:26.789 --> 01:10:40.600 by other musicians. B, blow me, a balloon delivery startup. C, fascism, 1431 01:10:41.500 --> 01:10:43.720 a fashion app designed for users to upload their looks 1432 01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:47.680 and have them critiqued by other fashionistas. Or D, F 1433 01:10:47.739 --> 01:10:50.640 My Dog, a pet finder app that seems to have 1434 01:10:50.659 --> 01:10:56.199 been pretty normal except for that rank name. One of 1435 01:10:56.239 --> 01:11:05.149 those is real. Which one? Is it Hitler? Blow me. Fascism. 1436 01:11:05.750 --> 01:11:10.670 Or F My Dog. What do you think? 1437 01:11:11.289 --> 01:11:14.430 I'm between fascism and blow me, which I don't like 1438 01:11:14.470 --> 01:11:14.850 to be, but. 1439 01:11:18.640 --> 01:11:20.399 That's what it's like to be on Twitter right now. 1440 01:11:22.260 --> 01:11:26.279 You're always stuck between fascism and blow me. Let's go 1441 01:11:26.310 --> 01:11:27.119 with fascism? 1442 01:11:27.270 --> 01:11:27.729 Yeah. 1443 01:11:28.090 --> 01:11:28.810 You got it. 1444 01:11:28.949 --> 01:11:29.250 What? 1445 01:11:31.029 --> 01:11:35.289 And Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis invested in it in 2011. 1446 01:11:35.289 --> 01:11:39.550 Of course they did. And finally, and anybody can take it, 1447 01:11:40.489 --> 01:11:43.689 who wrote this tweet? I just gave a squirrel a 1448 01:11:43.710 --> 01:11:45.569 piece of bread and it straight smashed. 1449 01:11:45.590 --> 01:11:45.970 Travis Kelsey. 1450 01:11:46.010 --> 01:11:49.409 We got it. So we got it. It was Travis Kelsey. 1451 01:11:49.510 --> 01:11:51.109 I just gave a squirrel a piece of bread. Every 1452 01:11:51.140 --> 01:11:56.260 word spelled wrong. Squirrel spelled in, I guess, the British way. 1453 01:11:57.279 --> 01:11:59.699 That's actually how we spell squirrel now, though. He decided 1454 01:11:59.739 --> 01:12:01.600 it then and that's the correct. I. 1455 01:12:01.840 --> 01:12:04.520 Not before E, a piece of bread and it straight 1456 01:12:04.579 --> 01:12:06.340 smashed all of it. I had no idea they ate 1457 01:12:06.380 --> 01:12:11.060 bread like that. Ha ha, hashtag crazy. That was Travis Kelsey. 1458 01:12:13.180 --> 01:12:14.420 Zoe and Dan, you've won the game. 1459 01:12:14.439 --> 01:12:15.060 Yeah, I think so. 1460 01:12:15.260 --> 01:12:15.880 Yeah, they did. 1461 01:12:15.960 --> 01:12:22.229 Congratulations. You've won two tickets to Praxis. We found it on, 1462 01:12:22.279 --> 01:12:24.800 I quote, traditional European Western beauty standards in which the 1463 01:12:24.840 --> 01:12:29.359 civilized world at its best points has always found success in. Cool. 1464 01:12:30.050 --> 01:12:30.439 Cool. 1465 01:12:30.850 --> 01:12:33.970 It's like I always say, inside every techno-libertarian millionaire is 1466 01:12:34.029 --> 01:12:35.930 a tiny little fascist waiting to pop out like

an 1467 01:12:35.970 --> 01:12:40.170 alien through John Hurt's abdomen. Give it up for Zoe, everybody. 1468 01:12:47.180 --> 01:12:49.939 Before we go, we thought it would be fun to 1469 01:12:49.979 --> 01:12:51.760 take a couple questions or maybe hear a couple tech 1470 01:12:51.819 --> 01:12:52.520 horror stories. 1471 01:12:53.300 --> 01:12:55.689 We're just going to open up. Did you work at Hitler? 1472 01:12:55.979 --> 01:12:58.729 That was a fake one. Did you work at fascism? 1473 01:12:59.710 --> 01:13:01.550 We want to know. Did you work at Juicero? You 1474 01:13:01.569 --> 01:13:05.949 pronounce the E. Do we have a mic out there 1475 01:13:05.970 --> 01:13:07.310 by any chance? I think Austin's out there. We can 1476 01:13:07.329 --> 01:13:12.619 bring the lights up. Oh, Ben's going out there. Sorry. 1477 01:13:12.760 --> 01:13:14.670 We open to questions or. 1478 01:13:18.029 --> 01:13:20.350 What's that website, Demois, the one where you get gossip? 1479 01:13:21.970 --> 01:13:29.130 Anonymous gossip about tech freaks also welcome. Or questions. I 1480 01:13:29.149 --> 01:13:29.810 have none of that. 1481 01:13:30.710 --> 01:13:32.189 Isn't this your fifth anniversary? 1482 01:13:32.930 --> 01:13:33.329 Is it what? 1483 01:13:33.470 --> 01:13:34.489 Your fifth anniversary. 1484 01:13:34.649 --> 01:13:35.510 Fifth anniversary of what? 1485 01:13:35.590 --> 01:13:36.590 Your company. 1486 01:13:36.890 --> 01:13:39.930 Is it? I don't think so. No? I think we 1487 01:13:39.989 --> 01:13:44.899 started at seven. Early 2017. I don't remember before this. 1488 01:13:44.939 --> 01:13:49.229 I've always been here. I'll always be here. Here's my question. 1489 01:13:49.890 --> 01:13:53.170 When you look back on the founding of Crooked Media, 1490 01:13:54.840 --> 01:13:58.119 is where you are now where you thought you would be? 1491 01:13:58.779 --> 01:14:01.060 Did it grow the way you thought? 1492 01:14:01.420 --> 01:14:04.819 I remember that first meeting when Tommy just wrote on 1493 01:14:04.840 --> 01:14:06.500 a cocktail napkin, San Jose. 1494 01:14:07.619 --> 01:14:17.600 Here's what I'd say. We, like, when we were doing 1495 01:14:17.640 --> 01:14:20.920 the podcast that was on The Ringer, and we decided 1496 01:14:20.939 --> 01:14:24.399 to do Pod Save America and try to launch a 1497 01:14:24.460 --> 01:14:27.439 company around it, we were protected by just how little 1498 01:14:27.479 --> 01:14:35.149 we knew. We had the confidence of ignorance. True, true ignorance. 1499 01:14:35.619 --> 01:14:38.210 And that gave us, I think, the freedom to believe 1500 01:14:38.250 --> 01:14:40.760 that this could work, and I think We thought there 1501 01:14:40.779 --> 01:14:42.539 were a lot of other people that felt like we 1502 01:14:42.560 --> 01:14:43.739 did that would we want to be part of a 1503 01:14:43.760 --> 01:14:46.220 community like this, but I don't think, A, we understood 1504 01:14:46.260 --> 01:14:48.239 just how hard it would be to build a company 1505 01:14:48.279 --> 01:14:50.340 and how much smarter the people would have to be 1506 01:14:50.680 --> 01:14:53.779 who would ultimately need to do it. And then, B, 1507 01:14:53.819 --> 01:14:57.770 I think, like, no, we could have never anticipated that 1508 01:14:57.779 --> 01:15:00.159 we would be here all these years later. You know, look, 1509 01:15:00.189 --> 01:15:01.350 we thought we'd give it a year and then I'd 1510 01:15:01.369 --> 01:15:04.130 be on some kind of failed Roseanne reboot writing jokes for... 1511 01:15:04.010 --> 01:15:07.289 Didn't that almost happen? It did almost happen. That's my 1512 01:15:07.310 --> 01:15:09.890 other fucking path. She got canceled, right? Yeah. 1513 01:15:11.210 --> 01:15:14.170 We sat in Jon Favreau's kitchen for months, which Emily 1514 01:15:14.210 --> 01:15:18.090 did not like, and we created a Medium website, which 1515 01:15:18.130 --> 01:15:20.409 we barely knew how to do, announced it, and called 1516 01:15:20.430 --> 01:15:20.930 it a company. 1517 01:15:21.050 --> 01:15:25.090 You bet. We had to use the website getcrookedmedia.com because 1518 01:15:25.130 --> 01:15:29.649 Crooked Media and Crooked.com, there was a guy in Prescott, Arizona. 1519 01:15:30.109 --> 01:15:34.600 His career was in porn, but his passion was taking 1520 01:15:34.680 --> 01:15:37.520 on the liberal media. So eventually we had to, remember that? 1521 01:15:37.840 --> 01:15:41.199 The porn king of Prescott, Arizona? What happened to that guy? Anyway, 1522 01:15:41.220 --> 01:15:47.590 we got it, the website, eventually. Oh, man. What else 1523 01:15:47.600 --> 01:15:47.939 we got? 1524 01:15:49.630 --> 01:15:52.189 My question is actually for Dan. I'm sorry, it's not 1525 01:15:52.229 --> 01:15:56.449 a tech question either. I was just reading some of 1526 01:15:56.489 --> 01:16:02.930 the bios, and in yours, it stated that you are 1527 01:16:03.029 --> 01:16:05.250 banned from going to Russia. 1528 01:16:04.930 --> 01:16:05.850 Because of Putin. 1529 01:16:07.149 --> 01:16:09.609 I sat back and I'm like, is that really true? 1530 01:16:09.829 --> 01:16:12.170 And if it's really true, what the hell did you 1531 01:16:12.189 --> 01:16:12.930 do to Dan? 1532 01:16:13.430 --> 01:16:17.500 Dan dated his daughter. In the early aughts. 1533 01:16:17.819 --> 01:16:18.539 Ugly breakup. 1534 01:16:18.880 --> 01:16:20.859 Messy. It is true. 1535 01:16:21.560 --> 01:16:24.880 And the reason I am banned to this day from 1536 01:16:24.920 --> 01:16:30.859 traveling to Russia is when Russia invaded Ukraine the first 1537 01:16:30.899 --> 01:16:35.050 time in 2014, I was previously scheduled to go on 1538 01:16:35.090 --> 01:16:37.510 Meet the Press. to do an interview about something else 1539 01:16:37.909 --> 01:16:40.640 because no one sends me on TV to talk about 1540 01:16:40.880 --> 01:16:43.859 major foreign policy, but it happened basically while I was, 1541 01:16:44.020 --> 01:16:47.680

after I was already scheduled. So our friend Ben Rhodes, uh, 1542 01:16:47.720 --> 01:16:51.180 whose time is a lot of rule those here. He 1543 01:16:51.220 --> 01:16:55.930 gave me some very aggressive talking points about why Putin's 1544 01:16:55.949 --> 01:16:58.430 decision to invade Russia was really a sign of weakness, 1545 01:16:58.470 --> 01:17:01.909 not strength. And so when the Russians banned a whole 1546 01:17:01.949 --> 01:17:07.909 bunch of people, a bunch of Americans, uh, in retribution. 1547 01:17:07.329 --> 01:17:08.100 For the U.S. 1548 01:17:08.109 --> 01:17:10.600 Sanctioning a bunch of Russian officials, I got added to 1549 01:17:10.640 --> 01:17:14.180 that list, which answered the mystery of which people in 1550 01:17:14.199 --> 01:17:15.659 the world still watch the Sunday shows. 1551 01:17:19.569 --> 01:17:23.289 Wow. Great, very observant reading of the bio. Well done. 1552 01:17:24.949 --> 01:17:25.770 What else we got out there? 1553 01:17:26.829 --> 01:17:31.039 Okay, I have a question about relational organizing versus AI. 1554 01:17:31.039 --> 01:17:35.159 Okay. Let's hear it. Do you want applause for the topic? 1555 01:17:35.239 --> 01:17:38.779 Okay, so the question is, do you think that relational 1556 01:17:38.880 --> 01:17:43.640 organizing is going to become more important, like walking out 1557 01:17:43.779 --> 01:17:47.920 and canvassing in person versus the phone calls and texts? 1558 01:17:48.119 --> 01:17:49.590 Wow, that might be a question for me. 1559 01:17:49.600 --> 01:17:50.390 It's a great question. 1560 01:17:50.479 --> 01:17:51.270 It is a really good question. 1561 01:17:51.439 --> 01:17:54.109 I actually haven't really thought about the implications of AI 1562 01:17:54.170 --> 01:17:57.329 with it, but that's really interesting. For those of you 1563 01:17:57.350 --> 01:18:00.069 who don't know, relational organizing is really just, you know, 1564 01:18:00.149 --> 01:18:03.199 in the old days, like five years ago, you would 1565 01:18:03.239 --> 01:18:06.359 get a list of your neighbors or what have you, 1566 01:18:06.420 --> 01:18:08.279 or you'd walk into a campaign office and they'd give 1567 01:18:08.300 --> 01:18:09.560 you a list of voters and you'd go knock the 1568 01:18:09.579 --> 01:18:11.930 doors and you'd talk to them about your candidate. Now, 1569 01:18:12.750 --> 01:18:14.510 sort of in the last two or three cycles, the 1570 01:18:15.470 --> 01:18:18.789 organizing hot thing du jour, which I actually think, to 1571 01:18:18.829 --> 01:18:21.510 answer your question, is the right way to do organizing, 1572 01:18:21.569 --> 01:18:25.319 is basically tapping the contacts in your phone and allowing 1573 01:18:25.359 --> 01:18:29.100 you to sort of define who within your own iPhone 1574 01:18:29.180 --> 01:18:32.250 or Android or whatever it might be contact list is 1575 01:18:32.289 --> 01:18:35.239 a target voter and communicating with them. Presuming you are, 1576 01:18:35.340

--> 01:18:37.159 if they're in their phone, you already know them. I 1577 01:18:37.220 --> 01:18:39.479 think it is a more effective way to organize because 1578 01:18:39.779 --> 01:18:42.199 organizing is all about relationships. And if somebody is in 1579 01:18:42.239 --> 01:18:43.899 your phone that presumes that you already know them and 1580 01:18:43.930 --> 01:18:44.319 you already have. 1581 01:18:44.270 --> 01:18:44.909 A relationship with them. 1582 01:18:44.949 --> 01:18:48.729 And so your communication with them will be more effective 1583 01:18:48.750 --> 01:18:51.260 than a stranger coming to their door. I don't really 1584 01:18:51.300 --> 01:18:52.909 know how AI, I mean, I feel like AI could 1585 01:18:52.979 --> 01:18:57.000 help sort of accelerate it ultimately, but it still comes 1586 01:18:57.039 --> 01:19:00.500 down to the core power of relational organizing is that 1587 01:19:00.600 --> 01:19:02.800 you know the person you're talking to before you show 1588 01:19:02.880 --> 01:19:05.039 up and talk to them about politics, and thus they 1589 01:19:05.060 --> 01:19:07.840 are more likely to accept what you have to say, 1590 01:19:08.119 --> 01:19:10.359 pick up the phone, whatever it may be, and maybe 1591 01:19:10.380 --> 01:19:13.359 AI can just help make it basically a little more efficient. 1592 01:19:13.819 --> 01:19:14.140 All right. 1593 01:19:14.159 --> 01:19:19.989 Well, listen, thank you, San Jose. Thank you, Adisu. Thank you, Zoe. Thanks, 1594 01:19:20.069 --> 01:19:23.710 Alex Lee, for being here. Great to see you. Have 1595 01:19:23.729 --> 01:19:24.109 a great night. 1596 01:19:24.130 --> 01:19:26.220 Good night, everybody. 1597 01:19:35.779 --> 01:19:38.739 If you want to get ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and more, 1598 01:19:38.800 --> 01:19:42.529 consider joining our Friends of the Pod subscription community at crooked.com 1599 01:19:42.550 --> 01:19:45.630 slash friends. And if you're already doom-scrolling, don't forget to 1600 01:19:45.670 --> 01:19:48.050 follow us at Pod Save America on Instagram, Twitter, and 1601 01:19:48.090 --> 01:19:51.270 YouTube for access to full episodes, bonus content, and more. 1602 01:19:51.630 --> 01:19:55.140 Plus, if you're as opinionated as we are, consider dropping 1603 01:19:55.180 --> 01:19:57.399 us a review. Give us your own takes. Hey, give 1604 01:19:57.420 --> 01:19:57.800 us a review. 1605 01:19:57.960 --> 01:20:02.300 Give us your takes on our takes. Pod Save America 1606 01:20:02.399 --> 01:20:05.579 is a Crooked Media production. Our producers are Olivia Martinez 1607 01:20:05.739 --> 01:20:09.430 and David Toledo. Our associate producer is Farrah Safari, writing 1608 01:20:09.470 --> 01:20:12.810 support from Hallie Kiefer. Reid Cherlin is our executive producer. 1609 01:20:13.109 --> 01:20:16.109 The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan 1610 01:20:16.130 --> 01:20:19.069 Cantor is our sound engineer, with audio support from Kyle 1611 01:20:19.109 --> 01:20:22.319 Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Madeline Herringer is our head of 1612 01:20:22.380 --> 01:20:24.939 news and programming. Matt DeGroat is our head of production. 1613 01:20:25.359 --> 01:20:28.720 Andy Taft is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team, 1614 01:20:29.020 --> 01:20:33.270 Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Mia Kelman, David Tolles, Kirill Pelleviv, 1615 01:20:33.609 --> 01:20:34.189 and Molly Lobel.