Full Transcript for Episode 5: The complex pixels of commerce (with Shopify's Farhan Thawar)

load balancers and CDNs. 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:09.680 And I kind of wrapped it all up last time. 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:10.960 I had this really fun episode. 00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:12.560 You gotta go listen to it, buddy. 00:02:12.800 --> 00:02:17.599 It was um I was in a Waymo connected to cloud code. 00:02:17.759 --> 00:02:21.039 So I was in AI using AI to push AI. 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:24.800 And that was like this very like recursive sort of thing talking about AI. 00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:33.360 So it was a really fun thing to think about like what was happening inside the Waymo, what was happening inside cloud code, how the inference models were working, how it all used the internet plus cellular. 00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:35.280 I just tried to tie it all together. 00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:41.599 But I know what people who have been listening to this podcast really want to talk about is commerce. 00:02:41.919 --> 00:02:45.599 So tell us a little bit about your role and let's get started. 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:46.240 Sure. 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:55.840 Yeah, so it's great that you did all those foundational episodes because we use an entire set of uh uh infrastructure to enable all of the things we do at JavaFy. 00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:17.919 And yeah, so my role is um I'm head of engineering, I've been here seven years, uh, worked on various things from like in-person commerce, like Bueno Sale, to uh online and obviously the growth of online commerce, spent a lot of time in infrastructure um and core engineering, and now of course in AI and AI enablement, but also how do we bring AI to our buyers and our merchants so that they can remove 12 from nowhere close. 00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:21.759 So um happy to see you again and happy to have a conversation wherever you want to go. 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:27.120 And actually, well, I'm interested in your Waymo thing because were you using cloud code from like mobile or can you pull your laptop? 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:39.360 Yeah, yeah, I actually uh I uh cooked it up for my ATT phone and I basically was sitting on a laptop, tethered to my 5G, driving through San Francisco in a Waymo. 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:41.280 So it was like AI and AI and AI. 00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:43.520 It was like it was like you know, inception with AI. 00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:44.240 It's kind of fun. 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:44.960 I love it. 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:50.960 It's very so what I know the people are pretty curious about is let's say you hit a Shopify store. 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:54.000 So pick your favorite store and you hit a short store. 00:03:54.319 --> 00:03:56.159 What actually happens at that point? 00:03:56.319 --> 00:04:02.639 I mean, I know we go through the internet, we hit a load balancer, we have something in your case on Google, you know, Google Cloud. 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:06.240 But then actually, what happens on the front end and the back end? 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:08.319 Can you sort of start to tell us that story? 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:09.360 Yeah, sure. 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:11.599 So when you are, so you're right. 00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:14.719 So let's let's talk about like uh you know online commerce, right? 00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:15.759 Because this will be awful. 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:18.000 Go to a you go into a store and you transact there. 00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:32.879 But for online commerce, typically what happens is you have either someone has told you about a brand, you already know about a brand, you might be using the shop app to discover a brand, you might do a Google search or a meta search or Instagram and be like, hey, I'm interested in buying something from the store, just browsing. 00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:37.199 And so what happens is you will go to what we call the storefront. 00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:40.879 It's a place where it's uh surf from our CDM. 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:42.560 We probably talked about CDMs. 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:44.079 And yeah, okay. 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:46.319 And it's typically like like read-only, right? 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:47.360 Because you're just browsing. 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:49.680 You might be like clicking on the colors that an item is. 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:52.720 Let's say you're interested in like shorts, like, okay, what colors does it come in? 00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:53.519 What sizes? 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:54.800 Can I look at other items? 00:04:54.959 --> 00:04:56.879 So I'm on like, you know, I'm in a web experience. 00:04:57.040 --> 00:05:08.879 I might be on my phone or on a desktop, and I'm just browsing and I'm taking a look at collections, maybe I'm getting recommendations, maybe I'm looking at uh there's also like you know, 3D, right? 00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:13.360 You might be looking at a model and be like, hey, what's the uh size of this thing in my environments? 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:16.800 Maybe you're using AR, but all those things are served by our storefront. 00:05:16.959 --> 00:05:20.240 And the way that works is it's actually distributed all over the world. 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:21.920 So you have a good experience no matter where you are. 00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:33.680 So if you are in Australia or you're in the US, we are hopefully giving you a good experience because our CDN has distributed all of the imagery and text and data in a way that allows it to be very close to the buyer. 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:40.399 So if you're in Australia, you're hitting like a something close to where you are and you're getting those return packets uh from a close location. 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:43.759 And then you are you're, you know, you I mean, you sometimes happens too. 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:53.519 You might start in Australia and then get on a plane and then go to uh, you know, New York, and in which case then you'll hopefully be routed to a New York server, and now you're still having a good and fast encouraging. 00:05:53.759 --> 00:06:01.759 And what's

cool about that is because it's read-only, we don't have to store that much information about you to kind of move things around, right? 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:06.399 Because um, you haven't really, you haven't done like an operation like in like an add-to-cart yet. 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:18.800 You're just like browsing, and of course, we kind of give you a good experience and give you a good personalization recommendation, but you haven't really, if you haven't signed in or you haven't hit add-to-cart, we are in a in a state where we can kind of serve you from anywhere. 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:29.600 So another interesting thing from a resiliency perspective is if something happens, the server goes down, or there's an infrastructure uh problem somewhere down the stack, we can just serve it from somewhere else. 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:29.839 Right? 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:32.959 So if the New York stuff goes down, we can serve you from somewhere close. 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:39.600 Uh worst case, we can serve you from all across the country, like California, but at least you're still able to like browse and mob around. 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:43.279 So that's like a storefront, and it's very much like read-only. 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:45.439 And there's lots of obviously complexities there. 00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:56.480 So for example, um, if we have like a bot attack or a flash sale, which is when, you know, imagine like a Kim Kardashian tweets out, I've got like new um new apparel on skims. 00:06:56.639 --> 00:07:08.800 We might have like a thundering herd come at us, and we use a combination of signals and our CDN to enable that to be a good experience uh for humans and also um for bots, because we have bots that uh also buy. 00:07:08.959 --> 00:07:16.959 And potentially we want to have a good lane for both of those types of users to um be able to hit our storefronts and see what's available on the stores. 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:19.680 So I'm saying I'm sending it on a lunar browser. 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:23.759 I hit skims, maybe not me, but somebody hit skims. 00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:31.600 And at that particular point in time, you're routing across the internet, across the fiber, into a data center, into GCP, across the load balancer, hitting your storefront. 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:33.439 I know it's called storefront renderer. 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:33.680 Yeah. 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:35.680 At that particular point, you mentioned something interesting. 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:37.680 You mentioned get recommendations. 00:07:37.920 --> 00:07:44.160 Is that a different call where like the storefront will now call to a different service through a different network, a different load balancer? 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:45.759 And and how does that actually work? 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:53.519 Yeah, so so basically we've got uh the storefront, and then there are things that require more uh intense compute, right? 00:07:53.600 --> 00:08:04.480 So collections is one because you might have a selection called show me everything, you know, like on your as a merchant, you might say, I want to have a collection that's um all new items or all blue items or all items under$10. 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:07.279 And so the collection might be more compute intensive. 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:10.079 You might even have smart collections, which lets you do things automatically. 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:19.519 And so that's an example of another call to a uh to another endpoint inside of Shopify that would return the products uh that may make sense for you. 00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:21.199 It might be recommendations. 00:08:21.439 --> 00:08:26.399 It might be uh, hey, based because maybe you sign in and you're like, oh, we already know you. 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:30.560 And so we know your size and we know the colors you like or the past products you purchased. 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:33.600 That would be another endpoint inside of Shopify that would be called. 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:50.159 So I think that there's easy ways for um us to kind of give you a better experience, but that does require more compute because it's not just serving like you and I hit skims at the beginning, and we're not signed in and there's no you know, cookies, we we should get the exact same experience and we can get hit from hit any server. 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:58.559 But you're signed in, or if I'm uh already known to that site, there's going to be slight preferential treatment for one way or another. 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:04.000 And you want that to be happening because you want to have a good experience as a user, and so we have more information about you. 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:05.440 We can uh tailor the experience. 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:08.000 Might say, oh, let's show let's show men's items. 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:09.600 Uh well, maybe to both of us. 00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:16.960 But yeah, uh you've already maybe you want he wants to show you pants that are longer, and uh, I'm in Toronto, maybe he wants to show me things that are more for warm weather. 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:25.039 And so those are the kinds of things that we can do um once we hit the site, and we can start saying, Okay, well, let's let's try to tailor the experience. 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:34.159 Yeah, so to put all that together, you hit the site, you think about the recommendations, you think about the cookies and maybe the user preferences, the query parameters for that site. 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:34.480 Yep. 00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:50.320 That builds the HTML, which comes back across the internet, back to the browser, renders with a box model, and like the boxes on my screen might be different than the boxes on your screen, like you said, because you're getting warmer weather here in Toronto, I'm getting you know cooler weather because I'm in San Francisco or something like that. 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:51.440 Yep, exactly. 00:09:51.759 --> 00:09:56.320

So those like the more information uh that the user can provide, right? 00:09:56.399 --> 00:10:05.360 Because sometimes you go to the site is you actually click on men's or you click on items under$10, which might be part of a smart collection, and then we can do calculations and serve it to. 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:17.360 And other times we can do it automatically is you might sign in and we now are saying, okay, let's preferentially give you a different experience because you've now told us uh who you are, and maybe we can use your past purchases on that site for that reason. 00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:18.320 Very cool. 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:26.480 You know, you know, I've down at the I've turned out the browser, I've turned out my app on my phone, I've got a collection, I'm ready to go buy something now, and I hit add to cart. 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:28.080 What actually happens there? 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:30.240 Because that's like the next step in the transaction, right? 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:34.320 Like it's the store from this one side, then there's cart with the cart promise, right? 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:35.759 So how does that doesn't actually work? 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:52.799 Yeah, so actually just one step before that is like there's like we will use um inventory signals and to actually automatically like box out things that are not available because we don't want you to add to cart like something that's you say, okay, I want to get these shoes in size 10, and then you press it and it's like, oh, not available. 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:55.279 We'd rather show it to you more up front. 00:10:55.519 --> 00:11:02.000 So usually you can filter and say something like, Hey, uh, I'm looking for this size, and maybe I only want to see things that are in stock. 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:09.600 Or um when you get to that product details page, we call it a PDP, you might already see that size 10 shoe is next out for that color. 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:12.240 So you might say, Oh, I want white because they don't have blue. 00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:13.120 Oh, they don't have blue. 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:14.240 Okay, I want to have black. 00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:15.120 Oh, they do have it. 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:16.799 Now you click add to cart, right? 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:18.080 So we're getting information. 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:39.519 And now you can add the cart, you're now doing um an operation that takes you out of like read-only mode into uh uh like a like a set like a session persistence mode because now if you continue shopping or you move around the site, you notice that there are your little uh shopping cart has a little one beside it because now you've added something to the cart. 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:50.480 So the way that works is we actually can store in your session, so on your in your uh in your browser, actually, and the cookie, that you have added uh this item to your cart. 00:11:50.639 --> 00:12:09.360 And if you go to other parts of

the site, if you even go away for a certain period, you might like close to your tab, come back uh let's say days or weeks later, and you go to the same site, you will hopefully see that that item is still in your cart because we noticed that some people, obviously, people want to browse, they want to take time to think about something. 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:12.879 They come back, like, oh yeah, I wanted to buy those shorts from Skims. 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:19.279 Let me go back to Skims and they realize that there's some things in their cart from last time, and they go, Oh yeah, I never completed my transaction. 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:24.320 Maybe they're waiting for free shipping, maybe they're waiting for a sale, maybe they're waiting to bundle more items. 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:25.440 And so that can happen. 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:43.279 The other thing that happens in some cases is merchants might use a tool to send you an email because maybe you've signed in, you've added something to your cart, and it might say, Hey, don't forget you've left this in your cart, and I know that I'm guilty of uh of doing that, and then I do I go, oh yeah, and then I go back and actually go back to the store and actually buy it. 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:49.919 And it tends to be a good loop uh where they might send you an email, and then from the email you might go back to the storefront and then buy that item. 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:52.720 So you're if it's I've actually gotten texted in the past too. 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:53.759 Yeah, it's true. 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:57.679 Yeah, the storefront will the the store will text me, hey, you left this behind, go check it out. 00:12:57.840 --> 00:12:58.000 Yeah. 00:12:58.159 --> 00:12:58.960 So exactly. 00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:07.440 And because because it's known to you, uh, you know, you've already signed in, or other signals can tell you that I wait a sec, you might want to uh complete your transaction. 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:17.360 So once you add it to cart, this is where it gets tricky because imagine you leave the store and your cookie expires, which case you come back and now you have to kind of start that transaction over. 00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:20.559 Or you have the example, you're in Australia and you get on a plane. 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:28.320 If you get in Australia and you get on a plane, we might not automatically be able to find your cart because we are routing you now to a closer region. 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:37.600 So we and that's like a thing that we choose to do because we don't wanna, I don't want to have to look across all sessions across all the world because you're in Europe to determine whether your cart was there or not. 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:38.559 And that's our decision. 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:46.559 Or in some cases, maybe we uh decide we do want to do that, which ends up being you know a more expensive operation, but it might be better for the user if we did. 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:50.720 And of course, as you know, cookies are on your local machine. 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:56.559 They have a cookie uh expiry based on potentially what's actually in your browser. 00:13:56.720 --> 00:14:09.440 You might actually go in and delete your cookies or get a new machine, switch from desktop to mobile, and for those things, we can sometimes identify, help identify, hey, your cart is still here on this store, and other times we can't. 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:12.639 So sometimes you're like, wow, this I went to my phone and my cart's still there. 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:15.279 And other times you're like, oh, I went to my phone and the cart's not there. 00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:27.200 Or in our case, with the shop app, um, which is our uh consumer offering, we can we can um actually help you see uh your cart from a store in the shop app, which helps you uh convert as well. 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:57.600 And so there are ways that we can kind of give you a good experience based on this now like read, like this write operation that you've done, which is adds something to your and what's fascinating to me about that is like different clients, you know, the phone, the app, the browser, the desktop browser, the laptop browser, they're all sort of connecting into the same back end, and they have that same knowledge of who you are, assumably passing some sort of user, some sort of persistence key that says this cart belongs to Alan, this cart belongs to Farhan, and this is what to bring up when they go back into the app. 00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:06.399 So all that again is happening over HML, over TCP, going into the servers, and it's all like so fast that that's the part that's just fascinating me. 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:11.360 You know, like you know, this whole podcast, my daughter was like, I ordered something and it showed up an hour later. 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:12.639 How did that actually happen? 00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:17.840 And just thinking about the the magnitude of all this over the scale of, I don't know, the internet. 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:19.440 It's just just wild to me. 00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:20.879 It's just really real fun here. 00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:24.639 And there's interesting problems that we as like nerds need to think about. 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:29.600 So, for example, let's say there's one wear of shorts and now I add it to the cart. 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:36.080 And then let's say I haven't done anything, and now somebody else actually finds the same pair of shorts and adds it to their cards. 00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:40.399 Because in uh you know reality, those shorts are not sold yet. 00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:43.600 So there's kind of different ways to think about that transaction. 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:46.639 One way is when I add it to the cart, I can reserve it. 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:54.000 So if you ever bought tickets from like Ticketmaster, you before you complete the transaction, it'll say, These tickets

are yours for the next 10 minutes. 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:54.559 Yeah, yeah. 00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:57.039 You have to rush to get your credit card to pay from the lick, right? 00:15:57.440 --> 00:15:59.679 You have 10 minutes because it's reserved it for you. 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:08.000 And for us, we have different strategies that we can think about um where we are like, should we um optimistically lock, right? 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:11.679 Or I guess tell pessimistic locking because you're locking in in advance, right? 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:20.559 Uh, or do I want to just be like, okay, I'm okay to tell the user if they get further down the path that it's it's gone, it's been gone since the time you put it in your cart. 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:24.720 So I put it in my cart, I waited too long, someone else put in their cart and they checked out. 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:32.720 Yep, now when I go to check out the that the tickets are gone, in my case, the shoes are gone, and now I have to make sure that I'm uh faster next time, right? 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:39.600 So I just keep picturing like a I just keep picturing like a Black Friday sale and somebody literally taking something out of somebody else's cart along the way. 00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:40.000 Right. 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:40.720 Same thing. 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:41.279 You're right, right. 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:45.519 You're in the you're in the mall and so and you have something in your cart and somebody comes over and takes it from your shopping cart. 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:48.639 Like that was that's exactly what's happening here. 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.080 And and depending on the brand, it might want to ask you more questions. 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:56.720 So for example, they might ask you during the cart ad phase, hey, what's your uh post-code? 00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:57.519 What's your zip code? 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:02.000 And the reason for that is it wanna show you um maybe it's a free shipping offer. 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:08.000 Maybe it's um, hey, this they want to tune your inventory to some uh warehouse that's closer to you. 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:13.119 They might want to estimate shipping costs, they might want to estimate taxes. 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:21.279 So there's a bunch of things, again, depending on the brand, might ask you at that stage, or they might ask you later when you get to the actual checkout, which we will talk about. 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:27.680 But right now you're in like the I'm I'm in a mall, I was browsing before, now I've got a shopping cart, I'm putting stuff in it. 00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:30.960 And that's what this uh that's why it actually, if you look online, it's shopping cart. 00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:36.960 It's literally the you know, skew morphic design of like, it's a shopping cart, it should feel like a shopping cart, it's now like in my car. 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:48.160 What's fascinating to me is depending on where I am, and

more specifically, depending on where the internet routes me, I might get different mall items, right? 00:17:48.240 --> 00:18:00.640 I might be able to think, you know, I'm sitting in San Francisco, and if I'm using a VPN or I'm using some sort of other connection, or T Speed connection pops up in New York, Shopify might think I'm in a New York mall as opposed to if I'm in a San Francisco mall. 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:06.559 And that could determine the inventory I see as well as the shipping rates I'd see and all sorts of other things. 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:09.680 So hey, you can we're you could use a more people. 00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:16.160 For example, uh in Shopify, you might say, Hey, for our New York customers, I want to give them a specific promotion. 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:16.559 Right. 00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:16.960 Right? 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:28.319 And and we could do things like we can offer you a bundle discount, we could offer you something, might be able to have a little pop-up and say, Hey, um, for people in New York, we're offering, like, you know, you can buy online and pick it up in store. 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:29.680 Maybe you want it today. 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:34.720 Maybe you want to put it in your cart, but I guess you want it today, and it'll say, Oh, let me just pick it up in store. 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:36.079 And the store is like near you. 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:42.640 So you might like buy, and I've done this before too, where I buy something, uh, get like an order ID, and then I go to the store and I pick it up the same day. 00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:44.319 You could do the opposite, by the way. 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:48.960 You can go in store and say, I'm in store, you don't have the thing, or it's too big, ship it to my house. 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:52.960 And so there's so many different um combinations of things you could do there. 00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:54.640 All right, so we got a cart. 00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:56.640 It kind of depends on where we are on the internet. 00:18:56.799 --> 00:18:58.559 We're connected over the store via the internet. 00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:06.319 We've gotten our browser, we've gotten our HTML back, we've been served up by the CDN, the storefront renderer, and now we're ready to check out. 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:07.119 Yes. 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:08.400 So tell me about that. 00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:10.160 Because that seems to be like the next logical step. 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:13.359 Pull my wallet out, my my virtual wallet out, and I'm ready to go. 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:20.480 Yeah, and so now you've got uh one or more items in your cart, and you're ready to go to the next phase, which is like I actually want to check out. 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:24.480 And so this is like in the physical world, this is you walking up to the cashier, right? 00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:30.000 And so what happens here is we now move into the checkout phase where we are doing a couple things. 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:36.240 One, we want sometimes we there's a bunch of things happening at the browser level and a bunch of things happening at the server level. 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:44.880 So one, we get to like a checkout page, and that checkout page is one typically where it's like, I need your information, name, address, payment, etc. 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:49.119 But I also and I also want you to confirm everything, like shipping and everything that's in your card. 00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:54.720 And as and the things that happen to the browser are it might want to pre-fill information. 00:19:54.799 --> 00:20:01.279 So you know when you go to a website, you protect the information and it says, oh, you start to be A and it's an online one, it just completes it for you. 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:05.359 That's happening on your on your browser because it saved information locally. 00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:10.720 It may also save your credit card locally because it stores it in a secure location inside the browser. 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:15.119 It might say, Oh, do you want to use this credit card that I have on file? 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:17.519 You might choose an accelerated payment option. 00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:19.119 Shock pay is one example. 00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:24.240 So you go there, it says, Oh, Alan, you bought from a Shopify store before and you're a Shock Pay user. 00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:34.880 Can I um help you by uh pre-filling your address, pre-filling your credit card, and you can just hit um pay, pay now, and it quickly accelerates you through that process. 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:37.759 It'll track it in the shop app and kind of give you that great experience. 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:38.720 You might want to use it. 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:42.559 By the way, that is a really, really powerful and dangerous button. 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:44.160 I use it all the time. 00:20:44.480 --> 00:21:00.559 Well, what you learned and what the data shows is that even if you don't use Shop Pay, but the purple button is there, you feel trust with the brand for like, actually, I know this is a legit merchant because uh it's got a purple button and I uh I feel good even if I don't use Shop Pay. 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:02.400 And then you might want to use another payment method. 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:13.680 Maybe you're a PayPal fan or a Google Pay or Apple Pay and you like that experience and you want to use one of those uh payment providers, those typically are uh offered as well by the merchant, so you might want to use those, or you might be like, you know what? 00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:17.279 I'm uh this is a gift or a one-time purchase in the store. 00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:18.559 I want to check out as a guest. 00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:23.440 So yes, you've got to give you my email and address so that you can send me a transaction uh notification. 00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:30.160 But I do not want um an ongoing relationship with you because it's a

one-time purchase for me, or the opposite. 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:32.160 I want to sign up for your marketing. 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:33.440 I'm gonna click on this button. 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:37.200 I'm a big fan, I want to be on your mailing list, I want to join your loyalty program. 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:43.920 Like it could be that version too, in which case you give it information and you give it all these permissions uh to uh give you all those things. 00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:45.279 So that's the page. 00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:56.640 So you've got you've filled in all your information, or you've gone through one of these accelerated uh methods, it shows you a final confirmation of everything in your cart and the taxes and duties and shipping and anything else that you might uh care about. 00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:58.079 You hit pay now. 00:21:58.319 --> 00:21:59.279 So what happens there? 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:04.000 So what What happens is we go through what's called a checkout negotiation. 00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:09.920 This is the final step where we are converting your um your cart into an order. 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:11.519 And there's lots of things that can happen here. 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:17.200 One of the things we already mentioned, which is we have to for sure recheck if the inventory is still available. 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:25.039 So even though we've done these checks, we still do one final check, which is why sometimes you're like, you get there and it's like, oh, it's no longer there. 00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:28.240 Um, this is the equivalent of someone taking it out of your cart. 00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:35.680 And uh because you were glad you had it, but actually it turns out like maybe it's maybe by the way, maybe some some stores actually share inventory with their store store. 00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:39.759 Maybe someone was in the physical store and bought the shoes, and now they don't have it available. 00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:44.160 And you know, if that system is one system, it'll decrement the uh inventory. 00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:48.160 And you are going through this negotiation where we finalize everything. 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:55.839 We recheck the tax rates, we check the shipping again, we check the inventory, and then we lock it and we convert it to an order. 00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:03.039 And when we're and we're going through that, you see a little spinner, it says, do not hit the back button, do not, you know, PSU3, that can cause another submission. 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:06.799 And we are final, we call it finalizing the order. 00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:24.000 We finalize it, and what happens is it converts it into an order, which is like now like a read-only uh object, because uh if we do have something called order editing, but it's really like a like a like an appending of the order because I have a history, but we are now turning it into an order. 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:29.599 We lock in all the you know pricing, shipping, taxes, all the things, the inventory. 00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:40.960 We decrement the inventory so now no one else could take it from you, including in the store, by the way, which can happen sometimes where you have stock in the back room and someone will literally go and tag it and be like, this is now taken. 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:48.160 And that turns into an order in a way that you will get the email confirmation typically very quickly. 00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:52.240 If you're using your shop app, you'll get like you might get a notification saying now being tracked by shop. 00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:54.640 So you can see that the order was was done. 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:59.440 And we start, you move into this like fulfillment phase from the merchant side. 00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:07.519 So it will show up in their uh ledger as an order to fulfill, and they will get the same information, which is like here are all the things. 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:16.400 They might have if it's one item, they might just pack and pick the one item, if it's like five, they might gather like a bundle and put it together for you and then get ready to ship it. 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:30.480 And what's cool about Shopify is you can not only do that entire operation and click on it and say, I want to fulfill, you can also print out a shipping label and you know, literally affix the label to the package and then get it sent out to you, which is then moving into like tracking. 00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:32.160 Yeah, it's it's fascinating. 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:42.240 I know when we were working on this together, the most important thing was getting the user from the cart to the checkout and getting the checkout to execute as fast as possible because we all know this, right? 00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:47.839 We're we've we have it in the cart, we're ready to check out, we're like, I don't want to spend a bunch of time at the cashier. 00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:51.039 I just want to like, here's my card, let's go, and then move on to the next thing. 00:24:51.200 --> 00:25:04.400 And I already spend, I know you all spend a lot of time, and we spend a lot of time talking about making that checkout work incredibly fast, making sure the sessions work incredibly fast, making sure the payment providers are tied in through the payment gateways the right way. 00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:11.200 All that is incredibly complicated behind the scenes, and it's all these connections going to all these different places across the internet. 00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:16.880 And as far as you know, I, the buyer, is concerned, like you said, it's pay now, and then boom, done. 00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:20.160 Here's the email, shows up on my app, and I'm good to go. 00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:25.279 It's like it's stunning how quick it all occurs and how many things actually occur behind that button. 00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:29.839 Yeah, and what we didn't actually talk about, actually the payments

negotiation. 00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:39.279 Because one of the things that can happen is you might put in an indirect credit card number, or you might uh sometimes this happens, an expired credit card on file, whenever, and it won't go through. 00:25:39.359 --> 00:26:05.599 And so what happens at the payment negotiation stage is that between Shopify and the payment gateway, it could be auth.net, it could be Stripe, it could be PayPal, we have a negotiation where we give the uh encrypted information to the provider in a way that they can actually figure out if this is a ballot card, has the funds, is not fraud brand, all those things, sends us back an authorization, and then we come back to you and say, yes, this has gone through. 00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:10.400 You might see on your phone if you use Apple Pay, whatever, like it shows up as a notification, like this has been paid. 00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:18.960 And that is part of the negotiation because sometimes, you know, if that fails, obviously we don't want the merchant to fulfill an order where the payment hasn't gone through. 00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:24.559 You want to know right away that actually I need to use a different credit card, or I want that in my gift card, et cetera. 00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:29.680 And so um, that's part of that whole negotiation is when it's finalized, the payment has also gone through. 00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:33.279 And uh, we spend a lot of time on authentication race at front. 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:48.400 So, for example, at Shopify, if a person uses a fraudulent credit card on any one of our millions of sites, we're um hopeful that it'll in uh in real time that that credit card cannot be used once we identify and not be used anywhere else on a Shopify site. 00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:56.240 So the network actually um uh gets smarter over time by just having uh these signals propagate throughout the entire network. 00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:57.279 Very cool. 00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:00.000 No, it's it's really impressive how quick it all occurs. 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:01.920 Yeah, now we actually get to fulfill, right? 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:03.680 So we actually get to do the fulfillment part. 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:10.480 So we actually actually this is yet to the pixels, everything we've talked about so far is all pixels in electrons and you know waves of light. 00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:12.799 But now we're actually talking about like packages. 00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:16.720 So actually fulfilling the packages, and that's fascinating too. 00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:18.960 Yeah, and it depends on the size of the merchant, right? 00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:37.759 So you could be a an entrepreneur who's just started their business and be at home, and you've got this fulfillment page, and I see all these images and videos of people they got like a you know kitchen set up and they've got boxes and labels and products, and they're using the Shopify uh order screen to basically be like, okay, I need to fulfill this order. 00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:39.039 What goes in the box? 00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:40.960 Can I bring my shipping label from here? 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:47.200 Let me close it, and then they do like, you know, they pack the box, they obviously put their, you know, um personalized touches on it. 00:27:47.279 --> 00:28:07.839 They might write a handwritten note, they close it up, they put the shipping label, and then they can say when they, you know, either it fulfilled there or when it's in transit, but it's already fulfilled from their perspective, and then they literally show these images of boxes at the door that they didn't have to drive to like, you know, UPS or uh Europe, you know, U US Postal Service or FedEx or whatever. 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:12.720 Uh and then that in their mind it's like it's like now shipped out and then then it goes to like the tracking page. 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:18.880 Um so but it's it's kind of a visceral experience because for them, this is now also the it was pixels for them, right? 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:26.160 This is orders are coming in and now it's into packages because they've got it converted into the thing that they're now sending uh their users. 00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:30.319 Now, of course, there's like people who do sell digital goods and things like that where they don't have the package aside. 00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:34.000 But for the people who are selling physical goods, um, there's a fulfillment stage. 00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:51.279 Now, if you're a bigger merchant, you might do anything from work with a warehouse to uh use fulfilled by Amazon, where those orders are automatically flowing into an order management system and then a fulfillment system such that uh there's a third party that's taking care of that for you. 00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:55.279 And they're they might let you know, hey, by the way, these shoes in size 10 are running low. 00:28:55.359 --> 00:29:01.519 You might want to order them from your manufacturer to refill it in the in the warehouse because a lot of people are ordering those. 00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:06.880 They will typically handle that for you, but you're at some large, large scale where um you're not doing that by hand. 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:11.119 Yeah, I don't picture the Kardashians packing, picking and doing things on their own. 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:12.160 So no, correct. 00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:15.599 Yeah, they've got the volume to like have like a warehouse and a setup there. 00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:18.480 By the way, go from one warehouse to multiple warehouses. 00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:21.440 How do you, you know, um route? 00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:22.799 It's an interesting problem, right? 00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:25.039 How do you route people to the correct closer warehouse? 00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:30.720 So if you say you want to shoe size 10 and you're in San Francisco, should I show you the ones in New York or not? 00:29:31.200 -->

00:29:38.319 Because there's different delivery um timelines and also delivery cost to send it to you for, right? 00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:48.799 And so those are kinds of things that we want to show you when you hit add to card as well, because uh you might say, like, oh, delivers in three days, and that could depend on where it is in the country and which warehouse it's filling from. 00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:54.240 So again, lots of interesting problems as we as we navigate through like something that looks super simple, which is like ships and create eggs. 00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:55.279 Yeah, I know. 00:29:55.359 --> 00:30:05.839 It it it all seems so simple, but like you said, that parachute or that skims item, it might be in n warehouses across the planet, which one has it in inventory, what's the shipping fees for each one? 00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:08.960 How does it actually get off the shelves into the truck? 00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:14.960 I'm gonna do a whole episode on that because that's a whole different discussion about robots and pick and pack and all sorts of fun stuff. 00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:20.480 You know, I don't think we have time to talk about that today, but that's a whole different topic, which is just fascinating. 00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:30.079 Yeah, yeah, I'll say each each step of the process has its like green path flow, which is super easy and and flows through it. 00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:38.640 Then it has like more like we didn't talk about like checkout shoes and like how do we think about having like, you know, like here you think about this like buying tickets for Taylor Swift concert, right? 00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:45.119 What about buying like again, Kim Kardashian, like apparel and like having a hundred thousand people try to buy at the same time? 00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:49.039 So lots of complexities can occur as the as the stack gets more helpful. 00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:52.799 And then, you know, since we're here in 2026, we gotta talk about AI. 00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:57.759 So now you've mentioned that you know, bots are buying on behalf of people, agents are buying on behalf of people. 00:30:57.920 --> 00:30:59.519 How does that throw itself into the mix? 00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:02.079 How do you think through that agentic commerce? 00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:07.119 If I'm sitting in ChatGPT and say, find me size 10 shoes of this style, go. 00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:09.440 Like, yeah, I know we're all working on that. 00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:10.720 So how does that actually happen? 00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:12.079 Yeah, there's two sides to it. 00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:19.759 There's the the there's the merchant side, which is like, how do I reduce the toil of the merchant, the business owner, when, hey, how do I update my tax settings? 00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:22.079 How should I think about ordering more inventory? 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:25.599 Can you show me record of what the biggest selling items were for the last week? 00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:30.880 All those things are now enabled by AI inside of Shopify because you quickly ask sidekick these questions. 00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:32.480 And then as a buyer, you're right. 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:35.039 Do I go to ChatGPT and say, show me shoes? 00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:38.640 Or do you say, hey, I'm getting interested in running, or I want to run a marathon? 00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:40.079 What equipment do I need? 00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:43.359 Or um, what should I buy my daughter for her grade eight graduation? 00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:44.640 And then it starts showing you products. 00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:48.240 So I think that there's very interesting discovery surfaces for that. 00:31:48.319 --> 00:32:07.440 There's obviously like word of mouth and meta and like Instagram and Facebook and and Google searches, but now AI is a new surface for you to like actually discover new products and potentially uh in a very detailed and narrow query, like show me shoes that are size 10 that are cool, or what that buy, you know, to for my hiking trip. 00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:15.599 Um, we're noticing obviously that more and more people are using AI, as you can imagine, and we're starting to see more uh of that kind of traffic appear. 00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:19.920 So we'll see, you know, what uh what size that channel ends up being over time. 00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:29.119 Yeah, I can even imagine going back to my lap last episode, sitting at a Waymo on a cell phone over 5G using Chat GPT to buy something. 00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:32.160 Like it's again how many how many layers of AI can we use? 00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:33.359 But it's all so cool. 00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:36.640 Yeah, and it's so interesting because also the pattern of the user, right? 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:43.920 So for example, when I get a product recommendation, um, I tend to want to go to the main sites because I want to see like what else you got, right? 00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:45.680 If I'm into this product, what's yeah? 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:51.200 And then other people we're like, hey, I I you you gave me the exact product, just buy now, right from that surface. 00:32:51.279 --> 00:33:03.119 So I think that's gonna be interesting to see um the various modalities of like just buy it now versus like, hey, like, you know, kind of like one-click buy versus like, hey, I want to see what else you have, what are the colors, what are the sizes before I purchase. 00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:10.640 Yeah, I remember we used to talk about people walking by a store and like literally taking a picture of an item in the window and just saying, just buy me one of these and have it shipped to my ass. 00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:12.319 I don't even want to go in the store. 00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:15.599 And other people might want to browse the store for a while, right? 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:16.720 Yeah, exactly. 00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:21.039 So you might the difference is like you could

also walk by the store and be like, I want that exact shirt. 00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:25.039 Or I go into the store and you see an shirt you like and raised like, oh, that one's nice and that one's nice. 00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:30.160 And so like you kind of like you know, you start figuring out um what you want to buy from that experience of like browsing. 00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:31.200 Yeah. 00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:41.200 I mean, what do you think that is like the is we we've talked about a bunch of different things here, but what do you think is the one thing that people underestimate about commerce in terms of its complexity? 00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:45.119 What's the one thing we're like no one understands how complex this really is. 00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:48.240 What is it that like stands out to you in that in that question? 00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:56.880 Yeah, I mean, I think one thing that's interesting is is the like the uh like it looks easy and I think it should feel easy. 00:33:57.200 --> 00:34:08.239 Um, but the whole point of like why like a Shopify or other services exist is because we're trying to make make the time that you spend on your business focused on the things that are value add for you. 00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:11.119 So if you're like you're building, we let's go back to shoes. 00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:24.000 Let's say you're a bespoke shoe manufacturer, we want you to spend all your time uh like making amazing shoes, researching uh materials and designs and spending all your time there, and talking to customers and telling your story. 00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:24.639 Like that's it. 00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:39.039 We don't want you have to spend time thinking about like, hey, is my site up and how do I configure like point of sale and how do I think about um bots and how do I fulfill with the right shipping labels and how do I think about inventory and choose shipping and duties and taxes and loyalty and all that stuff. 00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:41.039 Like, we want to take a lot of that toil away from you. 00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:51.199 Of course, we want to customize it, but our goal is to like let me spend most of your time on your business so we can uh take that toil and and and do what we're really good at, which is the infrastructure side. 00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:53.360 So I think people underestimate. 00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:56.880 Like I had a I talked to this uh this person who was like, I'm gonna bytecode my storefront. 00:34:56.960 --> 00:34:57.360 I'm like, great. 00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:01.039 They bytecoded it all, they hooked it up, and then they go, This is so cool. 00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:09.840 And I was able to take sales, and then they're like, wait a sec, how do I do fulfillment and orders and tracking and inventory and sales and and then shit, how do I file taxes and like all that stuff? 00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:12.639 And they messaged me and they go, Oh, this is why Shamfy exists. 00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:19.440 Like you can, of course, bytecode, you can still use your bytecoded site and headlessly and um you know set up the APIs to hit Shampai in the back end. 00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:24.880 But the whole reason for the rest of it is because we're trying to make that easy for everybody such that they can focus on their business. 00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:31.920 And now this person is focusing on, unfortunately, taxes and overdose and fulfillment and because they've just byte coded a site. 00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:37.039 So I think I think I think there's a place and time to kind of figure out where you want to spend uh your resources. 00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:39.199 And so if you're gonna invite people to site, cool. 00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:42.480 Just have the APIs hit job and find the backgrounds, you don't have to worry about the rest. 00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:45.679 But um, I think people underestimate the the complexity of commerce. 00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:51.199 The other thing I will say is um just checkout itself is so interesting, right? 00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:56.559 Like I've managed to buy it now versus the the beauty of an entire checkout experience flowing through. 00:35:56.639 --> 00:36:07.519 And so we developed UCP with Google because we felt like when you go to whether it's ChatGPT or Gemini or Cloud or anywhere in the new LLM world and you see a checkout, it should reflect the brand. 00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:14.559 It should be branded, it should have uh complexities of shipping and duties and taxes and all that stuff flow through so you get the full experience. 00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:19.519 Just like you go into a store, you walk into Walmart or you walk into Ala Yoda, they feel different. 00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:22.639 And so that experience should feel different on Run's. 00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:24.559 No, totally makes sense. 00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:25.440 Totally makes sense. 00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:27.119 Well, Farn, this has been fascinating. 00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:28.960 Thanks again, buddy, for joining joining me. 00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:30.159 Love chatting with you. 00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:31.280 Used to do this all the time. 00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:32.239 Uh yeah. 00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:36.639 Thank you everyone for listening to this episode of Pixels to Packages. 00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:41.199 Next time, we're gonna probably talk a little bit more about AI because that seems to be the topic desire. 00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:50.320 A little bit more about logistics and continue to figure out how we get those pixels that Shopify serves that all these merchants uh present to our screens, turning more into packages. 00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:52.480 Thanks for hunting. 00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:53.199 See y'all soon.