Full Transcript for Exploring the astrophysics behind Project Hail Mary

desperate, 46 00:01:50,075 --> 00:01:50,895 space mission 47 00:01:51,275 --> 00:01:54,094 to save humanity from an extinction level event. 48 00:01:54,230 --> 00:01:55,049 So no pressure. 49 00:01:55,430 --> 00:01:57,109 Also, he's the only survivor. There are two 50 00:01:57,109 --> 00:01:58,310 dead people in the ship with him. I 51 00:01:58,310 --> 00:01:59,370 mean, Ryan Gosling, 52 00:02:00,310 --> 00:02:02,489 contacted us. So, I mean, 53 00:02:02,790 --> 00:02:05,349 that was awesome. Drew Goddard, I was the 54 00:02:05,349 --> 00:02:08,229 one who, like, really pushed for Drew. I 55 00:02:08,229 --> 00:02:10,675 mean, everybody loves Drew. He said, like, guys, 56 00:02:10,675 --> 00:02:12,435 I just don't have the time to work 57 00:02:12,435 --> 00:02:13,574 on this. I'm sorry. 58 00:02:14,114 --> 00:02:16,194 And so I was like, okay. Well, here's 59 00:02:16,194 --> 00:02:17,235 a copy of the book. I hope you 60 00:02:17,235 --> 00:02:18,675 enjoy it. Because I like Drew. He's a 61 00:02:18,675 --> 00:02:20,114 friend of mine. And then he read the 62 00:02:20,114 --> 00:02:21,395 book and said, like, well, I think I 63 00:02:21,395 --> 00:02:23,235 would like to work on this. And so 64 00:02:23,235 --> 00:02:25,374 that was very flattering to me. And, then 65 00:02:25,374 --> 00:02:27,513 he said, but I you know, guys, I 66 00:02:27,750 --> 00:02:29,889 I've got, like I wouldn't be able to 67 00:02:29,889 --> 00:02:31,790 consider starting for at least, like, six to 68 00:02:31,790 --> 00:02:33,691 eight months while I'm working on this other 69 00:02:33,691 --> 00:02:36,074 stuff. And I so I pushed I pushed 70 00:02:36,074 --> 00:02:37,995 for every everybody in the production. I'm like, 71 00:02:37,995 --> 00:02:40,634 let's wait for Drew. Let's let's just wait. 72 00:02:40,634 --> 00:02:42,155 We're not gonna be shooting anything during the 73 00:02:42,155 --> 00:02:44,574 pandemic anyway, so let's just hold on and 74 00:02:44,955 --> 00:02:46,634 and wait for him. So we did. But 75 00:02:46,634 --> 00:02:48,794 Drew is just such a fantastic screenwriter. I 76 00:02:48,794 --> 00:02:50,340 mean, he did such a good job on 77 00:02:50,340 --> 00:02:51,939 The Martian. He gets me. He gets what 78 00:02:51,939 --> 00:02:54,760 I'm going after, and so I just feel 79 00:02:55,139 --> 00:02:57,379 much more comfortable with the with the screenplay 80 00:02:57,379 --> 00:02:59,139 in his hands and with anyone else. Yeah. 81 00:02:59,139 --> 00:03:01,460 Fantastic. Much more from Andy Weir later in 82 00:03:01,460 --> 00:03:03,665 the podcast, But that interview did take place 83 00:03:03,665 --> 00:03:05,745 before the film came out, so I wanted 84 00:03:05,745 --> 00:03:07,824 to have a conversation with someone, well, an 85 00:03:07,824 --> 00:03:08,324 astrophysicist, 86 00:03:08,944 --> 00:03:10,544 about it since it has. My name is 87 00:03:10,544 --> 00:03:12,465 doctor Becky Smethurst. I'm an astrophysicist at the 88 00:03:12,465 -->

00:03:14,625 University of Oxford, and I also share a 89 00:03:14,625 --> 00:03:16,385 lot of my knowledge online, including on my 90 00:03:16,385 --> 00:03:18,669 YouTube channel, doctor Beggin. Okay. And you've been, 91 00:03:19,550 --> 00:03:20,370 quite active 92 00:03:20,750 --> 00:03:21,250 in, 93 00:03:22,030 --> 00:03:22,530 videos 94 00:03:22,830 --> 00:03:23,330 about 95 00:03:24,269 --> 00:03:26,750 films, I think. Mhmm. And I think, 96 00:03:27,069 --> 00:03:28,590 well, I don't know about you, but I've 97 00:03:28,590 --> 00:03:32,145 been particularly excited and looking forward to, Project 98 00:03:32,145 --> 00:03:33,824 Hail Mary since I read the book when 99 00:03:33,824 --> 00:03:35,985 they came out. Yes. Yeah. I listened to 100 00:03:35,985 --> 00:03:37,905 the audiobook last year, which was narrated by 101 00:03:37,905 --> 00:03:39,044 Ray Porter. And 102 00:03:39,585 --> 00:03:41,185 I don't usually listen to audiobooks. It was 103 00:03:41,185 --> 00:03:43,025 weird. Like, I was just like, I'm doing 104 00:03:43,025 --> 00:03:44,639 a bit of, I'm doing a few jobs. 105 00:03:44,639 --> 00:03:46,159 I was like, I I need someone to 106 00:03:46,159 --> 00:03:47,840 listen to. And I thought, I've been meaning 107 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:48,879 to read that book for ages. And I 108 00:03:48,879 --> 00:03:49,859 was doing honestly, 109 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:51,680 it was one of those books that you're 110 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,120 like, I'm a different person on the other 111 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:54,719 side of this. Do you know what I 112 00:03:54,719 --> 00:03:56,400 mean? And the audio book was just so 113 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,239 well done. So I've been so excited for 114 00:03:58,239 --> 00:04:01,025 this film. Yes. And there's so much science 115 00:04:01,645 --> 00:04:03,644 in the book, in the story as well, 116 00:04:03,644 --> 00:04:05,185 which I think is just so 117 00:04:05,724 --> 00:04:07,724 nice if you just sort of I don't 118 00:04:07,724 --> 00:04:09,084 know. If you just love science and you 119 00:04:09,084 --> 00:04:10,205 have that sort of, like, oh, just do 120 00:04:10,205 --> 00:04:12,050 a quick back of the envelope calculation. You 121 00:04:12,050 --> 00:04:13,409 don't want this. It's one of those books 122 00:04:13,409 --> 00:04:15,169 that really scratches that itch. Yeah. I don't 123 00:04:15,250 --> 00:04:16,850 I'd so I I've spoken to Andy Weir 124 00:04:16,850 --> 00:04:18,449 a few times. I know you've spoken to 125 00:04:18,449 --> 00:04:20,850 him, about this book. And one of the 126 00:04:20,850 --> 00:04:22,930 times that I called him to to chat 127 00:04:22,930 --> 00:04:23,509 to him, 128 00:04:24,290 --> 00:04:25,589 it was a Sunday morning 129 00:04:25,975 --> 00:04:28,214 where he was. And, and I was like, 130 00:04:28,214 --> 00:04:29,495 oh, hi, Andy. How are you doing? He 131 00:04:29,495 --> 00:04:31,334 said, yeah. I'm alright. I'm just working out 132 00:04:31,334 --> 00:04:33,095 what would actually happen if you were stuck 133 00:04:33,095 --> 00:04:35,035 between the moon and New York City. 134 00:04:37,175 --> 00:04:38,935 He's just doing the maths on that, which 135 00:04:38,935 --> 00:04:41,730 is What a fun job. And that's where 136 00:04:41,730 --> 00:04:43,649 these kind of Yeah. Ideas come from is 137 00:04:43,649 --> 00:04:45,330 that that it's just who he is. He 138 00:04:45,330 --> 00:04:46,470 just thinks about 139 00:04:46,850 --> 00:04:48,770 problems and then tries to work them out, 140 00:04:48,770 --> 00:04:50,529 and then there's these these stories come out 141 00:04:50,529 --> 00:04:52,230 of them. If we do nothing, 142 00:04:53,410 --> 00:04:55,435 everything on this planet will go extinct. 143 00:04:56,694 --> 00:04:57,754 You'll find a solution. 144 00:04:59,175 --> 00:05:00,314 You are my solution. 145 00:05:00,855 --> 00:05:03,335 When we first spoke many, many years ago 146 00:05:03,335 --> 00:05:05,975 before the Martian film came out, you said 147 00:05:05,975 --> 00:05:08,615 you were writing a book called Zeke. Yeah. 148 00:05:08,615 --> 00:05:09,435 And it had 149 00:05:10,019 --> 00:05:12,579 things like interstellar travel in it. Did aspects 150 00:05:12,579 --> 00:05:14,579 of that find their way into this? Yes. 151 00:05:14,579 --> 00:05:16,819 They did. So Zeke, I worked on it 152 00:05:16,819 --> 00:05:18,899 for about a year. I got about 70,000 153 00:05:18,899 --> 00:05:21,060 words in. For reference, the Martian is a 154 00:05:21,060 --> 00:05:21,975 100,000 words. 155 00:05:23,095 --> 00:05:24,935 And I was about 70,000 words in when 156 00:05:24,935 --> 00:05:26,535 I realized one day, oh, dear. This book 157 00:05:26,535 --> 00:05:28,955 sucks. It's it's no good. The 158 00:05:29,415 --> 00:05:31,334 the the story isn't interesting. The plot is 159 00:05:31,334 --> 00:05:33,754 too convoluted. The characters are boring, and 160 00:05:34,099 --> 00:05:35,539 I'm still in the first act. So this 161 00:05:35,539 --> 00:05:38,019 is gonna be some 900 page ego tome 162 00:05:38,019 --> 00:05:39,479 that no one's gonna wanna read. 163 00:05:39,779 --> 00:05:41,539 So I gave up on it, and I 164 00:05:41,539 --> 00:05:43,539 I back burnered it. In fact, then put 165 00:05:43,539 --> 00:05:45,300 the stove that has that back burner in 166 00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:47,115 a backroom. You know? I just 167 00:05:47,814 --> 00:05:49,334 figured it was done, but there were a 168 00:05:49,334 --> 00:05:50,774 few diamonds in the rough. There were a 169 00:05:50,774 --> 00:05:52,294 few nuggets in there that I thought were 170 00:05:52,294 --> 00:05:54,294 really cool. And one of them was this 171 00:05:54,375 --> 00:05:57,414 well, Ingeq, it was an alien technology called 172 00:05:57,414 --> 00:05:58,235 black matter, 173 00:05:58,629 --> 00:06:00,629 and it was this fuel that you could 174 00:06:00,629 --> 00:06:02,730 use for your spaceship. It would mass convert, 175

00:06:03,430 --> 00:06:04,649 itself into 176 00:06:05,029 --> 00:06:07,269 basically light and shine that out the back 177 00:06:07,269 --> 00:06:08,649 of your ship for propulsion. 178 00:06:13,004 --> 00:06:14,845 So that was in ZEK, and I I 179 00:06:14,845 --> 00:06:16,845 thought, like, well, I want I want to 180 00:06:16,845 --> 00:06:19,165 use that. That's really cool. So I said, 181 00:06:19,165 --> 00:06:20,845 like, that was kind of the nugget that 182 00:06:20,845 --> 00:06:22,444 started the story with hail Mary. I was 183 00:06:22,444 --> 00:06:24,285 like, okay. I want this to be a 184 00:06:24,285 --> 00:06:27,120 story, but let me think here. What what 185 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:27,860 would I 186 00:06:28,639 --> 00:06:30,639 we couldn't possibly have black matter in the 187 00:06:30,639 --> 00:06:32,160 modern day. There's no way we'd be able 188 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,399 to invent that. So what if we found 189 00:06:34,399 --> 00:06:37,360 it? Okay. Well, it's annoying to me that 190 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,004 it's an alien technology. If we if we 191 00:06:40,004 --> 00:06:42,564 find this incredible alien technology, that means I 192 00:06:42,564 --> 00:06:43,064 have 193 00:06:43,444 --> 00:06:45,225 to explain that there is this 194 00:06:45,764 --> 00:06:47,925 advanced alien race who for some reason isn't 195 00:06:47,925 --> 00:06:49,685 around and stuff like that. And I thought 196 00:06:49,685 --> 00:06:51,285 like, well, what does black matter do? It 197 00:06:51,285 --> 00:06:53,925 also absorbs all light and turns it into 198 00:06:53,925 --> 00:06:55,979 more black matter. That's why it's called black 199 00:06:55,979 --> 00:06:57,039 matter. It's black. 200 00:06:58,220 --> 00:06:58,720 And, 201 00:06:59,259 --> 00:07:00,240 I thought, like, 202 00:07:00,620 --> 00:07:02,860 well, that's interesting because we have a substance 203 00:07:02,860 --> 00:07:04,720 that takes energy and makes more of itself. 204 00:07:04,779 --> 00:07:07,194 That sounds like a life form. Right? And 205 00:07:07,194 --> 00:07:09,055 so I'm like, oh, instead of an alien 206 00:07:09,115 --> 00:07:11,355 technology, it'll just be a naturally evolved life 207 00:07:11,355 --> 00:07:13,214 form that does this. And I'm like, okay. 208 00:07:13,274 --> 00:07:15,595 Why does a naturally evolved life form need 209 00:07:15,595 --> 00:07:18,154 to do, like, interstellar travel? I'm like, okay. 210 00:07:18,154 --> 00:07:19,889 It's an interstellar life form. 211 00:07:20,370 --> 00:07:22,050 Okay. Well, it needs a lot of energy 212 00:07:22,050 --> 00:07:24,370 to do interstellar travel. I'm like, okay. Well, 213 00:07:24,370 --> 00:07:26,050 let's have it live on the surface of 214 00:07:26,050 --> 00:07:26,550 stars, 215 00:07:26,930 --> 00:07:29,090 and it's like algae, and it spores out 216 00:07:29,090 --> 00:07:31,410 like mold does to go get other stars 217 00:07:31,410 --> 00:07:33,110 and stuff like that. And it's all just 218

00:07:33,410 --> 00:07:35,430 evolution. So it is an alien, 219 00:07:35,875 --> 00:07:37,954 quote, unquote, but it's not like, take me 220 00:07:37,954 --> 00:07:40,194 to your leader. It's just like, hey. Don't 221 00:07:40,194 --> 00:07:41,334 mind me. I'm mold. 222 00:07:41,634 --> 00:07:42,774 I'm just gonna breed. 223 00:07:43,954 --> 00:07:44,454 And, 224 00:07:45,475 --> 00:07:47,235 then I got to thinking like, oh, okay. 225 00:07:47,235 --> 00:07:49,279 That'd be cool. And then then humans could 226 00:07:49,279 --> 00:07:50,240 get a hold of some of this stuff, 227 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,079 and then we'd start breeding it in farms, 228 00:07:52,079 --> 00:07:53,759 and then we'd be flying around our solar 229 00:07:53,759 --> 00:07:55,439 system. We could colonize Mars and Venus. Oh, 230 00:07:55,439 --> 00:07:56,879 we'd have to make real we'd have to 231 00:07:56,879 --> 00:07:58,079 be real careful to make sure none of 232 00:07:58,079 --> 00:07:59,839 that crap got into our sun or we'd 233 00:07:59,839 --> 00:08:01,279 start breeding out of control, and that'd be 234 00:08:01,279 --> 00:08:01,939 a disaster. 235 00:08:02,495 --> 00:08:05,534 One Mississippi, two Mississippi. Holy shit. That's a 236 00:08:05,534 --> 00:08:06,754 book. You know? 237 00:08:07,454 --> 00:08:09,375 Like, right there, that's that's it. So I'm 238 00:08:09,375 --> 00:08:11,534 like, forget all that other crap. We're doing 239 00:08:11,615 --> 00:08:13,534 we're we're starting with that. You know? This 240 00:08:13,534 --> 00:08:16,830 life form starts affecting the total solar output 241 00:08:16,830 --> 00:08:18,449 of of our sun, and now 242 00:08:18,830 --> 00:08:21,310 yeah. That that's the shower epiphany that led 243 00:08:21,310 --> 00:08:23,970 to the book. The sun is dying. 244 00:08:25,470 --> 00:08:27,305 You are the only scientist who might know 245 00:08:27,305 --> 00:08:30,104 what this is. I'm just a teacher at 246 00:08:30,104 --> 00:08:32,584 Grover Cleveland Middle. We have a doctorate in 247 00:08:32,584 --> 00:08:33,644 molecular biology. 248 00:08:34,345 --> 00:08:35,725 I need you to come with us. 249 00:08:36,424 --> 00:08:38,664 This is Project Hail Mary. I loved the 250 00:08:38,664 --> 00:08:41,029 film. It is it it is obviously different 251 00:08:41,029 --> 00:08:42,629 from a book. You know, anybody who's ever 252 00:08:42,629 --> 00:08:43,750 loved a book and then gone see a 253 00:08:43,750 --> 00:08:45,670 a film adaptation, it's going to be different 254 00:08:45,670 --> 00:08:47,610 because it's a completely different medium. 255 00:08:48,230 --> 00:08:49,910 So a lot of the science that is 256 00:08:49,910 --> 00:08:50,410 communicated, 257 00:08:50,790 --> 00:08:51,290 obviously, 258 00:08:51,670 --> 00:08:53,670 in the book as you're reading this character 259 00:08:53,670 --> 00:08:54,730 sort of in a monologue 260 00:08:55,454 --> 00:08:58,574 is is communicated visually in the film, which 261 00:08:58,574 --> 00:08:59,074 obviously, 262 00:08:59,774 --> 00:09:01,214 and in a monologue takes a lot of 263 00:09:01,214 --> 00:09:03,294 pages compared to a few seconds of a 264 00:09:03,294 --> 00:09:05,394 visual, you know, flash up. 265 00:09:05,774 --> 00:09:08,095 So in that sense, it's very different. And 266 00:09:08,095 --> 00:09:09,375 so if you, you know, you love the 267 00:09:09,375 --> 00:09:11,690 science, like, the aspect of it there is 268 00:09:11,690 --> 00:09:13,610 is a very quick, you know, flash and 269 00:09:13,610 --> 00:09:16,250 you'll miss it. But in terms of the 270 00:09:16,250 --> 00:09:19,629 story, the characters, the visuals, the cinematography, 271 00:09:20,009 --> 00:09:21,690 the way it was filmed, just the heart 272 00:09:21,690 --> 00:09:23,769 and soul of this film is just incredible, 273 00:09:23,769 --> 00:09:24,750 and it's so 274 00:09:25,605 --> 00:09:26,105 joyful. 275 00:09:27,125 --> 00:09:29,304 Like, everyone raves about, you know, Interstellar 276 00:09:30,325 --> 00:09:31,764 as as a sci fi film and how 277 00:09:31,764 --> 00:09:33,945 it is very epic. And, you know, 278 00:09:34,884 --> 00:09:36,965 I just Interstellar is missing some joy for 279 00:09:36,965 --> 00:09:38,264 me. Okay. Yeah. 280 00:09:41,090 --> 00:09:42,129 Like, yes, I like to come out of 281 00:09:42,129 --> 00:09:44,210 the cinema and be like, woah, and feel 282 00:09:44,210 --> 00:09:45,649 like I've been run over with a truck, 283 00:09:45,649 --> 00:09:48,149 but at the same time, I also 284 00:09:48,850 --> 00:09:51,490 love coming out of the cinema just with 285 00:09:51,490 --> 00:09:53,330 a huge smile on my face, and that's 286 00:09:53,330 --> 00:09:54,230 what this film 287 00:09:54,565 --> 00:09:56,004 did, and it's what the book did as 288 00:09:56,004 --> 00:09:58,165 well. And so that kind of heart of 289 00:09:58,165 --> 00:10:00,165 the book and why, you know, I fell 290 00:10:00,165 --> 00:10:01,045 in love with it and why I was 291 00:10:01,045 --> 00:10:02,725 like, I'm a different person after reading this, 292 00:10:02,725 --> 00:10:04,245 is so there in the film, and I 293 00:10:04,245 --> 00:10:05,925 loved it so so much. They did such 294 00:10:05,925 --> 00:10:07,445 a good job on it. The directors, Phil 295 00:10:07,445 --> 00:10:09,045 Lord and Christopher Miller, they did they did 296 00:10:09,045 --> 00:10:11,019 great. So you've interviewed Ryan Gosling 297 00:10:11,399 --> 00:10:13,659 Mhmm. Andy Weir and Lord and Miller for, 298 00:10:14,039 --> 00:10:17,399 your YouTube channel. Obviously It's a mom's scream 299 00:10:17,399 --> 00:10:18,440 here when she I told her I was 300 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,299 interviewing Ryan Gosling. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. 301 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:22,759 Well, that's kind of my question. So, obviously, 302 00:10:22,759 --> 00:10:24,120 we'll post links to all of those on 303 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,815 the Physics World website. Oh, nice. At at 304 00:10:26,815 -->

00:10:29,634 which people can find alongside this episode, 305 00:10:30,254 --> 00:10:32,495 of the Physics World Stories podcast. But, 306 00:10:33,215 --> 00:10:34,115 as a person, 307 00:10:35,535 --> 00:10:37,615 which of those are you most excited slash 308 00:10:37,615 --> 00:10:38,514 nervous about? 309 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:40,299 Oh my gosh. 310 00:10:41,879 --> 00:10:44,840 I think just, obviously, naturally from maybe everybody 311 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:46,279 in my life's reaction to telling them I 312 00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:48,040 was scared to be Ryan Gosling, it was 313 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:49,240 possibly that. I just sat there, and all 314 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:50,360 I could hear is my mom and my 315 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:51,740 sister's voices just going, 316 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:53,340 like, 317 00:10:54,485 --> 00:10:57,205 And he was just absolutely so so lovely 318 00:10:57,205 --> 00:10:59,445 and just exactly as you'd imagine in real 319 00:10:59,445 --> 00:11:01,044 life. So I think the the the sort 320 00:11:01,044 --> 00:11:02,804 of nervous energy was definitely there. But in 321 00:11:02,804 --> 00:11:05,605 terms of, like, the the freak out science 322 00:11:05,605 --> 00:11:08,379 fangirl moment, it was Andy Witt. Like, because 323 00:11:08,379 --> 00:11:09,440 I loved The Martian. 324 00:11:10,700 --> 00:11:13,580 I, you know, obviously loved Project Hail Mary. 325 00:11:13,580 --> 00:11:15,179 I've also listened to his other book after 326 00:11:15,179 --> 00:11:16,620 I finished Project Hail Mary as well, the 327 00:11:16,620 --> 00:11:18,139 one about the moon. Artemis. I'm currently trying 328 00:11:18,139 --> 00:11:20,475 to remember the Artemis. Thank you. Which was 329 00:11:20,475 --> 00:11:21,695 also great. And 330 00:11:22,715 --> 00:11:24,394 chatting to Andy was so fun because it 331 00:11:24,394 --> 00:11:26,575 was just like chatting to just another, 332 00:11:27,195 --> 00:11:29,674 you know, science nerd kinda thing. He showed 333 00:11:29,674 --> 00:11:32,235 me this massive spreadsheet that he produced for 334 00:11:32,235 --> 00:11:33,754 the book that was literally just like, here's 335 00:11:33,754 --> 00:11:35,819 my spreadsheet that tells me, like, this is 336 00:11:35,819 --> 00:11:38,299 how much fuel the hail Mary spacecraft will 337 00:11:38,299 --> 00:11:40,399 need, and, like, you know, this is, like, 338 00:11:40,860 --> 00:11:42,459 you know, the temperature of this thing and, 339 00:11:42,459 --> 00:11:44,940 like, all of these relative relativistic calculations he'd 340 00:11:44,940 --> 00:11:46,459 done and everything like that. And it was 341 00:11:46,459 --> 00:11:47,120 so fun 342 00:11:47,955 --> 00:11:48,934 seeing that because 343 00:11:50,115 --> 00:11:51,555 as a as an I mean, no. I 344 00:11:51,555 --> 00:11:52,995 don't think any of me and my colleagues 345 00:11:52,995 --> 00:11:55,495 use spreadsheets. I'm gonna put that out there. 346 00:11:56,195 --> 00:11:58,835 Maybe for a very quick thing or whatever, 347 00:11:58,835 --> 00:12:00,690 but for our actual astrophysics work, 348 00:12:01,409 --> 00:12:03,429 we are very much entrenched 349 00:12:03,889 --> 00:12:05,029 in Python coding, 350 00:12:05,490 --> 00:12:07,169 you know, is is the main language of 351 00:12:07,169 --> 00:12:08,529 choice. I think there's obviously a lot of 352 00:12:08,529 --> 00:12:10,129 simulations that are done in other things, like 353 00:12:10,129 --> 00:12:11,490 c and all that kind of stuff as 354 00:12:11,490 --> 00:12:14,654 well. But mostly, it's it's all with code. 355 00:12:15,195 --> 00:12:17,434 And so any data tables we have is 356 00:12:17,434 --> 00:12:20,794 all in, you know, CSV if you if 357 00:12:20,794 --> 00:12:22,794 you have to be, but then also probably 358 00:12:22,794 --> 00:12:24,315 more what's called a FITS format, 359 00:12:24,714 --> 00:12:26,575 a flexible image transfer system, 360 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,200 which basically can store images and data tables 361 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:30,799 at the same time. So, like, any data 362 00:12:30,799 --> 00:12:32,960 that's taken at a telescope with all of 363 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,480 the metadata that comes with it, it's like 364 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,399 this telescope, this time pointing, this direction, etcetera, 365 00:12:36,399 --> 00:12:36,899 etcetera. 366 00:12:37,279 --> 00:12:38,799 So most of the time, if you're seeing 367 00:12:38,799 --> 00:12:42,014 relativistic equations realized, it's it's in code. 368 00:12:42,475 --> 00:12:43,215 And so 369 00:12:43,595 --> 00:12:45,615 it was so wonderful to see it 370 00:12:45,995 --> 00:12:48,235 from someone who, you know, is is kind 371 00:12:48,235 --> 00:12:49,835 of like a science enthusiast in that way. 372 00:12:49,835 --> 00:12:50,955 Obviously, he has a bit of a science 373 00:12:50,955 --> 00:12:52,875 background with working at NASA and JPL from 374 00:12:52,875 --> 00:12:54,495 the computer science side of things. 375 00:12:54,875 --> 00:12:57,830 But seeing relativistic equations translated into, like, just 376 00:12:57,830 --> 00:12:59,830 a spreadsheet was so I think it was 377 00:12:59,830 --> 00:13:01,909 like a Google Sheet, you know. It there 378 00:13:01,909 --> 00:13:04,490 was just something so, like, raw and incredible 379 00:13:04,629 --> 00:13:05,370 about that 380 00:13:05,909 --> 00:13:07,589 that just blew me away that, you know, 381 00:13:07,589 --> 00:13:09,865 he'd managed to to do it. So, yeah, 382 00:13:09,865 --> 00:13:11,865 I think during the interview, the most the 383 00:13:11,865 --> 00:13:13,705 most sort of, like, I was, I think, 384 00:13:13,705 --> 00:13:15,065 was actually Andy after you showed me that 385 00:13:15,065 --> 00:13:18,045 spreadsheet. So There are infinite possibilities 386 00:13:18,504 --> 00:13:19,644 for this to go wrong. 387 00:13:21,465 --> 00:13:23,230 This ship wasn't built for this. 388 00:13:23,769 -->

00:13:27,829 You want me to do it now. In 389 00:13:28,059 --> 00:13:32,110 general, my story start with some scientific idea. 390 00:13:32,569 --> 00:13:34,169 For hail Mary, it's like, what if we 391 00:13:34,169 --> 00:13:36,089 had a a a fuel that could mass 392 00:13:36,089 --> 00:13:38,115 convert, you know, spacecraft fuel that could do 393 00:13:38,115 --> 00:13:41,075 mass conversion for thrust? Great. For the Martian, 394 00:13:41,075 --> 00:13:42,434 it was like, how could we put a 395 00:13:42,434 --> 00:13:44,995 humans to Mars and, you know, what are 396 00:13:44,995 --> 00:13:46,674 the fail safes on that mission? And that 397 00:13:46,674 --> 00:13:47,955 led me to thinking of all the things 398 00:13:47,955 --> 00:13:49,495 that could go wrong, etcetera. 399 00:13:49,820 --> 00:13:51,500 And for Artemis, it was, 400 00:13:52,059 --> 00:13:54,860 what is humanity's first city that's not on 401 00:13:54,860 --> 00:13:56,940 Earth gonna look like? What's it gonna be 402 00:13:56,940 --> 00:13:58,940 like? So all I I mean, I always 403 00:13:58,940 --> 00:14:00,860 start off with just some I mean, this 404 00:14:00,860 --> 00:14:02,459 is not on purpose. It's just this is 405 00:14:02,459 --> 00:14:03,980 where my story is tend to come come 406 00:14:03,980 --> 00:14:06,465 from. I'm speculating on cool science stuff, and 407 00:14:06,465 --> 00:14:08,865 then I I speculate about that stuff all 408 00:14:08,865 --> 00:14:10,565 the time. Once in a while, 409 00:14:11,184 --> 00:14:13,024 I'll get far enough along that I think, 410 00:14:13,024 --> 00:14:14,644 oh, okay. This might be a good story. 411 00:14:14,865 --> 00:14:16,625 So it wasn't like I I sat down 412 00:14:16,625 --> 00:14:17,985 and said, like, alright. I'm gonna write a 413 00:14:17,985 --> 00:14:19,919 completely different thing from The Martian. It was 414 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:21,759 when I'm gonna write a book, I try 415 00:14:21,759 --> 00:14:23,039 to go with whatever I think is the 416 00:14:23,039 --> 00:14:25,200 best idea I have at the time, and 417 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,620 Artemis was what I thought was coolest. 418 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,120 And, honestly, I'd hoped that I I I 419 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:32,720 had really hoped that it was gonna take 420 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,000 off and it was gonna be a setting 421 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,105 that I could write book after book in. 422 00:14:36,105 --> 00:14:37,544 I wanted it to be my own disc 423 00:14:37,544 --> 00:14:38,445 world. Right? 424 00:14:38,824 --> 00:14:39,225 But, 425 00:14:39,704 --> 00:14:41,544 it just wasn't as popular as a Martian. 426 00:14:41,544 --> 00:14:43,144 It did well. People liked it, but they 427 00:14:43,144 --> 00:14:45,464 didn't love it. It didn't, like you know, 428 00:14:45,464 --> 00:14:47,850 people weren't people aren't clamoring at the gates 429 00:14:47,929 --> 00:14:49,850 for more Artemis. There are I I get 430 00:14:49,850 --> 00:14:52,089 emails, like, every day saying, oh, make more 431 00:14:52,089 --> 00:14:54,409 Artemis. But, I mean, there's not enough of 432 00:14:54,409 --> 00:14:56,649 a demand, and my my publisher's like, 433 00:14:57,370 --> 00:14:59,610 don't make a sequel to Artemis. Make something 434 00:14:59,610 --> 00:15:02,329 new. Art Artemis is a a crime novel 435 00:15:02,329 --> 00:15:03,149 slash heist 436 00:15:03,544 --> 00:15:05,625 kind of thing. Yeah. And this is sort 437 00:15:05,625 --> 00:15:07,944 of a return to my hard sci fi 438 00:15:07,944 --> 00:15:10,605 isolated scientist roots. I was 439 00:15:10,985 --> 00:15:13,384 acutely aware that it's very similar to The 440 00:15:13,384 --> 00:15:15,404 Martian in that respect, so I tried to 441 00:15:15,799 --> 00:15:18,600 I I tried to not duplicate any plot 442 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,839 beats from The Martian at all. Like, for 443 00:15:20,839 --> 00:15:22,860 instance, Ryland's ship works. 444 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,199 Like, nothing breaks down. Everything functions the way 445 00:15:26,199 --> 00:15:27,899 it's supposed to. He has other problems, 446 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:28,919 but, 447 00:15:29,865 --> 00:15:32,825 but the ship works. If Grace, Rocky, save 448 00:15:32,825 --> 00:15:33,325 stars, 449 00:15:34,985 --> 00:15:36,125 we can go home. 450 00:15:38,585 --> 00:15:40,105 I think this is a one way trip 451 00:15:40,105 --> 00:15:40,764 for me. 452 00:15:46,570 --> 00:15:48,570 Let's get into some of the science of, 453 00:15:48,970 --> 00:15:51,529 project hail Mary. Now Andy Weir has a 454 00:15:51,529 --> 00:15:53,769 thing in every book Mhmm. Which he calls 455 00:15:53,769 --> 00:15:55,929 a MacGuffin, which is he likes it to 456 00:15:55,929 --> 00:15:56,830 be really scientific 457 00:15:57,164 --> 00:15:57,664 scientifically 458 00:15:58,044 --> 00:15:59,964 accurate, but there's one thing in each thing 459 00:15:59,964 --> 00:16:01,264 that he allows himself, 460 00:16:02,605 --> 00:16:04,764 that's not scientifically accurate. He makes up a 461 00:16:04,764 --> 00:16:06,845 little bit of science for the fiction side 462 00:16:06,845 --> 00:16:08,924 of it, but everything else has to be 463 00:16:08,924 --> 00:16:09,424 consistent. 464 00:16:10,204 --> 00:16:10,684 Yeah. 465 00:16:11,324 --> 00:16:12,304 In this particular 466 00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:14,089 book and film, 467 00:16:14,549 --> 00:16:17,529 it is the astrophyte. Like a space algae, 468 00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:19,529 which also stores energy 469 00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:21,690 that can be used as fuel. 470 00:16:22,070 --> 00:16:22,570 Yes. 471 00:16:23,589 --> 00:16:25,049 How do you feel about it? 472 00:16:26,644 --> 00:16:28,345 I really like the idea that, 473 00:16:29,445 --> 00:16:31,125 like, if we ever found life in the 474 00:16:31,125 --> 00:16:31,625 universe, 475 00:16:32,404 --> 00:16:34,404 the the likelihood is it's not going to 476 00:16:34,404 --> 00:16:34,904 be, 477 00:16:35,284 -->

00:16:37,845 you know, intelligent life or have or even 478 00:16:37,845 --> 00:16:39,445 evolved life. Like, the fact that it could 479 00:16:39,445 --> 00:16:41,445 be, like, single cell organisms that we end 480 00:16:41,445 --> 00:16:43,660 up finding, and that first contact would be 481 00:16:43,660 --> 00:16:45,500 with something like that, I think is a 482 00:16:45,500 --> 00:16:48,700 very I don't wanna say realistic, but more 483 00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:49,200 probable, 484 00:16:50,540 --> 00:16:52,220 side of things. You know, for example, if 485 00:16:52,220 --> 00:16:55,279 we were sending missions to Titan, for example, 486 00:16:55,535 --> 00:16:57,535 Saturn's moon, with the Dragonfly mission, a little 487 00:16:57,535 --> 00:16:58,995 drone that's gonna fly around. 488 00:16:59,295 --> 00:17:00,115 You know, we're 489 00:17:00,735 --> 00:17:02,754 sending things to things like, you know, Enceladus, 490 00:17:03,054 --> 00:17:04,035 Saturn's moon, 491 00:17:04,575 --> 00:17:06,115 plans possibly with Europa, 492 00:17:06,654 --> 00:17:08,654 things like that. All these kind of moons 493 00:17:08,654 --> 00:17:10,319 of the solar system that life, 494 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,319 if we found it in the solar system 495 00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:14,240 could possibly be there. And also, obviously, with 496 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,559 this ongoing searches with perseverance as well for 497 00:17:16,559 --> 00:17:18,639 life on Mars or past life on Mars, 498 00:17:18,639 --> 00:17:20,480 the likelihood is if we find anything there, 499 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:21,700 it's going to be 500 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:24,500 tiny, right? It's going to be tiny microbial 501 00:17:24,559 --> 00:17:24,855 life. 502 00:17:25,414 --> 00:17:27,275 So I think in that sense, like, 503 00:17:27,734 --> 00:17:30,054 I don't think that's a story that's as 504 00:17:30,054 --> 00:17:31,674 explored as much as 505 00:17:31,974 --> 00:17:34,474 first contact with little green men, you know, 506 00:17:34,535 --> 00:17:36,934 classic aliens, that kind of thing. So I 507 00:17:36,934 --> 00:17:38,535 really liked the aspects of the story, and 508 00:17:38,535 --> 00:17:40,980 I think it really surprised me. In terms 509 00:17:40,980 --> 00:17:42,039 of energy storage, 510 00:17:42,340 --> 00:17:44,740 you know, it's just mass energy equivalence is 511 00:17:44,740 --> 00:17:46,259 sort of the the crux of the story 512 00:17:46,259 --> 00:17:47,619 there is if they can take in the 513 00:17:47,619 --> 00:17:49,700 sun's energy and store it and then release 514 00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:52,180 it later. It's just e equals mc squared, 515 00:17:52,180 --> 00:17:54,615 and you can get an a stupid amount 516 00:17:54,615 --> 00:17:56,934 of energy to to accelerate a spacecraft up 517 00:17:56,934 --> 00:17:58,475 to close the speed of light. Great. 518 00:17:59,654 --> 00:18:00,955 In terms of whether 519 00:18:01,414 --> 00:18:03,195 a single cell can store 520 00:18:04,455 --> 00:18:06,875 that much energy with that much energy efficiency 521 00:18:07,309 --> 00:18:09,390 is ridiculous because it's like a billion times 522 00:18:09,390 --> 00:18:11,549 more efficient than, say, energy storage that, you 523 00:18:11,549 --> 00:18:14,210 know, like, in terms of life met metabolising 524 00:18:14,269 --> 00:18:16,049 on Earth can do in terms of 525 00:18:16,429 --> 00:18:18,829 energy from sugars. You break apart a sugar 526 00:18:18,829 --> 00:18:21,069 molecule and you release the energy from the 527 00:18:21,069 --> 00:18:23,424 chemical bonds, and that's the energy that we 528 00:18:23,424 --> 00:18:26,065 then use to power life. It it's like 529 00:18:26,065 --> 00:18:27,664 a billion times more efficient than that. So 530 00:18:27,664 --> 00:18:28,644 we don't have anything 531 00:18:29,105 --> 00:18:31,105 in terms of the the sort of the 532 00:18:31,105 --> 00:18:31,605 biophysics, 533 00:18:32,865 --> 00:18:33,605 to actually 534 00:18:34,559 --> 00:18:36,159 come anywhere close to that. But I think 535 00:18:36,159 --> 00:18:38,319 that's what's that's what's fun about Andy's work, 536 00:18:38,319 --> 00:18:39,679 and he says, you know, that kind of 537 00:18:39,679 --> 00:18:41,059 energy storage aspect. 538 00:18:41,599 --> 00:18:43,119 He sort of did a bit of a 539 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:44,980 hand wave. He like, oh, it's neutrinos. 540 00:18:45,919 --> 00:18:47,779 The cell that's storing the energy, 541 00:18:48,485 --> 00:18:49,684 which he likes to joke, you know, you 542 00:18:49,684 --> 00:18:51,545 get down to the quantum level, and 543 00:18:52,485 --> 00:18:54,424 that's when things start to break apart. 544 00:18:55,365 --> 00:18:57,684 And he invented this whole term in the 545 00:18:57,684 --> 00:19:00,565 book called, like, super cross sectionality or something 546 00:19:00,565 --> 00:19:01,140 like that, 547 00:19:01,619 --> 00:19:02,820 which is fun because it's sort of a 548 00:19:02,820 --> 00:19:04,820 borrowed word from particle physics when we talk 549 00:19:04,820 --> 00:19:06,740 about cross sectionality of particles and whether they're 550 00:19:06,740 --> 00:19:09,059 likely to intersect and things like that. So 551 00:19:09,059 --> 00:19:11,700 I like that you know, the idea is 552 00:19:11,700 --> 00:19:13,700 is is obviously a sci fi, but the 553 00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:16,414 fact that it's rooted in some elements of 554 00:19:16,414 --> 00:19:18,894 of physics and made that effort to do 555 00:19:18,894 --> 00:19:19,394 that, 556 00:19:20,095 --> 00:19:21,695 I think was incredible. Because there's a lot 557 00:19:21,695 --> 00:19:23,295 of sci fi that's just like, oh, yeah. 558 00:19:23,295 --> 00:19:25,695 We can go warp speed, you know, close 559 00:19:25,695 --> 00:19:28,025 to light speed. Don't don't question it. There's 560 00:19:28,025 --> 00:19:29,759 a a fuel. Don't question it, you know, 561 00:19:29,759 --> 00:19:31,360 and stuff like that. And and

this, I 562 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:32,640 think, is is like, well, how do we 563 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,240 solve that problem with the plot point in 564 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:34,900 the story, 565 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,759 is is really cool. There is a a 566 00:19:37,759 --> 00:19:38,900 centrifugal force 567 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:40,180 that causes, 568 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:41,140 gravity. 569 00:19:41,794 --> 00:19:42,294 Yeah. 570 00:19:42,674 --> 00:19:45,015 On the ship. I mean, from a filmmaking 571 00:19:45,075 --> 00:19:47,255 point of view, it means that Ryan doesn't 572 00:19:47,315 --> 00:19:47,954 have to, 573 00:19:48,355 --> 00:19:50,195 be on Walk around. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you 574 00:19:50,355 --> 00:19:51,714 have to float all the time. You can 575 00:19:51,714 --> 00:19:52,934 walk around. Yeah. Exactly. 576 00:19:53,394 --> 00:19:55,575 But from a science point of view, 577 00:19:56,669 --> 00:19:58,669 why would you do that if you were 578 00:19:58,669 --> 00:20:00,589 in space, and how would you how do 579 00:20:00,589 --> 00:20:02,429 you do that? Yeah. There was actually two 580 00:20:02,429 --> 00:20:04,450 types of artificial gravity in the film, 581 00:20:04,990 --> 00:20:06,049 which are realistic. 582 00:20:06,349 --> 00:20:07,950 So one of them is, you know, he 583 00:20:07,950 --> 00:20:10,424 wakes up, first of all, in space, and, 584 00:20:11,225 --> 00:20:12,525 the ship is accelerating 585 00:20:12,904 --> 00:20:14,045 just in a straight line. 586 00:20:14,585 --> 00:20:17,865 So his spacecraft is oriented so that, you 587 00:20:17,865 --> 00:20:20,105 know, the the floor is like a one 588 00:20:20,105 --> 00:20:22,505 big long column, basically. So he's he's kind 589 00:20:22,505 --> 00:20:24,265 of, like, climbing up ladders and stuff to 590 00:20:24,265 --> 00:20:25,725 go all the way up this column. 591 00:20:26,650 --> 00:20:28,410 And so because the chip is accelerating in 592 00:20:28,410 --> 00:20:30,170 a straight line, you feel the acceleration. So 593 00:20:30,170 --> 00:20:32,330 that's like when you're in a car and 594 00:20:32,330 --> 00:20:34,410 you put your foot down and you really 595 00:20:34,410 --> 00:20:36,410 do get thrown back in your seat. Right? 596 00:20:36,410 --> 00:20:38,184 That's the first type. So it's it's an 597 00:20:38,184 --> 00:20:39,945 artificial gravity in that way because he's just 598 00:20:39,945 --> 00:20:42,184 getting permanently thrown back into his seat door 599 00:20:42,184 --> 00:20:44,365 into the floor of this big, long column. 600 00:20:46,345 --> 00:20:48,345 But then the other aspect of the artificial 601 00:20:48,345 --> 00:20:50,025 gravity is the centrifuge you were talking about. 602 00:20:50,025 --> 00:20:52,045 So it's really cool what the ship does 603 00:20:52,250 --> 00:20:54,809 is it basically rotates that long column 90 604 00:20:54,809 --> 00:20:55,309 degrees. 605 00:20:55,769 --> 00:20:57,690 So then you've got, like, one big long

606 00:20:57,690 --> 00:21:00,410 cylindrical room, kind of like the International Space 607 00:21:00,410 --> 00:21:00,910 Station. 608 00:21:01,529 --> 00:21:03,789 And then what the ship does is it 609 00:21:04,009 --> 00:21:04,509 rotates 610 00:21:05,234 --> 00:21:05,894 so that 611 00:21:06,275 --> 00:21:07,894 that, long groom 612 00:21:08,355 --> 00:21:10,535 is always sort of being thrown backwards 613 00:21:10,914 --> 00:21:11,654 in a way. 614 00:21:12,674 --> 00:21:15,075 So if you think about it like you 615 00:21:15,075 --> 00:21:16,375 hold hands with a friend 616 00:21:16,674 --> 00:21:17,654 and spin around 617 00:21:18,029 --> 00:21:19,950 or you get on a roundabout and spin 618 00:21:19,950 --> 00:21:22,350 around. You feel that force pushing you backwards, 619 00:21:22,350 --> 00:21:25,150 rather, it's it's such a centrifugal force. So, 620 00:21:25,150 --> 00:21:27,230 basically, once this ship of his is spun 621 00:21:27,230 --> 00:21:29,230 around into one long room, he's always being 622 00:21:29,230 --> 00:21:32,049 pushed down into what now becomes the floor. 623 00:21:32,625 --> 00:21:34,065 And so the long column that he was 624 00:21:34,065 --> 00:21:35,744 climbing up with the ladders now becomes his 625 00:21:35,744 --> 00:21:36,244 floor. 626 00:21:37,184 --> 00:21:37,684 And 627 00:21:38,144 --> 00:21:40,464 it and it's it's a an idea that's 628 00:21:40,464 --> 00:21:42,625 been explored so many times, not just in 629 00:21:42,625 --> 00:21:44,464 sci fi, but also, you know, as as 630 00:21:44,464 --> 00:21:45,684 sort of people consider, 631 00:21:46,450 --> 00:21:48,850 you know, long journeys to Mars and things 632 00:21:48,850 --> 00:21:50,130 like this. If you're gonna send humans to 633 00:21:50,130 --> 00:21:52,070 Mars, you know, living in, 634 00:21:52,850 --> 00:21:55,330 zero g for longer than a year, which 635 00:21:55,330 --> 00:21:57,350 is always really been tested so far, 636 00:21:57,809 --> 00:21:59,890 with humans, you know, is is is is 637 00:21:59,890 --> 00:22:00,549 an issue. 638 00:22:01,075 --> 00:22:03,634 So can you create, an artificial gravity in 639 00:22:03,634 --> 00:22:04,295 that way? 640 00:22:04,994 --> 00:22:07,315 And depending on how fast you spin gives 641 00:22:07,315 --> 00:22:08,914 you how much gravity you feel. The faster 642 00:22:08,914 --> 00:22:10,775 you spin, the more gravity. But also, 643 00:22:11,234 --> 00:22:13,555 the further away you are from the center 644 00:22:13,555 --> 00:22:15,394 of the centrifuge, so how with, you know, 645 00:22:15,394 --> 00:22:17,659 the distance from the thing that's spinning, basically, 646 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,799 or the distance from the I guess, how 647 00:22:19,799 --> 00:22:21,399 long your arms are if you hold hands 648 00:22:21,399 --> 00:22:23,079 with your friend. Right? The longer your arms 649 00:22:23,079 --> 00:22:25,079 get, the the the higher the force gets. 650 00:22:25,079 --> 00:22:26,679 It's a it's a really interesting idea to 651 00:22:26,679 --> 00:22:28,664 see realized on film, because I think 652 00:22:29,605 --> 00:22:31,285 just thinking back on, like, okay. Who's done 653 00:22:31,285 --> 00:22:32,884 this before in terms of artificial gravity? You've 654 00:22:32,884 --> 00:22:34,325 seen it in the Martian, actually. Like, the 655 00:22:34,325 --> 00:22:36,244 Martian ship that they they took to Mars 656 00:22:36,244 --> 00:22:38,085 and back, like, had a big centrifuge where 657 00:22:38,085 --> 00:22:40,244 the the crew compartment was, like, a big 658 00:22:40,244 --> 00:22:40,744 circle, 659 00:22:41,125 --> 00:22:42,984 and the whole circle was rotating. 660 00:22:44,069 --> 00:22:45,669 But, again, in terms of getting the right 661 00:22:45,669 --> 00:22:47,669 artificial gravity, you end up with, like, quite 662 00:22:47,669 --> 00:22:49,669 large things that you need to to make 663 00:22:49,669 --> 00:22:51,509 this happen. So the fact that you can 664 00:22:51,509 --> 00:22:53,269 have a sort of ship that spins out 665 00:22:53,269 --> 00:22:55,190 on cables the way this does to make 666 00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:57,509 it so that it rotates around and then 667 00:22:57,509 --> 00:23:00,414 can then get your centrifuge, I think is 668 00:23:00,414 --> 00:23:02,095 a nice way of sort of getting around 669 00:23:02,095 --> 00:23:03,394 that that problem. 670 00:23:04,734 --> 00:23:06,414 But it's like, would we need to do 671 00:23:06,414 --> 00:23:08,255 that if we were doing this kind of 672 00:23:08,255 --> 00:23:10,095 long distance space? That's the big question, isn't 673 00:23:10,095 --> 00:23:11,215 it? So that's what I was sort of 674 00:23:11,215 --> 00:23:13,420 alluding to was, like, we've only tested it 675 00:23:13,420 --> 00:23:16,380 with astronauts for usually spans of six months 676 00:23:16,380 --> 00:23:17,740 is is tends to be the longest that 677 00:23:17,740 --> 00:23:19,019 people do in space, but I think it 678 00:23:19,019 --> 00:23:20,779 was was it Mark Kelly that did a 679 00:23:20,779 --> 00:23:21,759 year in space? 680 00:23:22,380 --> 00:23:22,880 So 681 00:23:24,299 --> 00:23:26,700 in theory, you know, people can spend an 682 00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:28,984 extended amount of time in in very low 683 00:23:29,125 --> 00:23:29,625 gravity. 684 00:23:30,325 --> 00:23:30,825 And, 685 00:23:31,684 --> 00:23:33,125 I mean, I would say with with, you 686 00:23:33,125 --> 00:23:35,605 know, little to to minor effects from it. 687 00:23:35,605 --> 00:23:38,005 Obviously, there's muscle mass loss, there's bone density 688 00:23:38,005 --> 00:23:40,470 loss, things like that from not having that 689 00:23:40,950 --> 00:23:42,250 force pulling you down. 690 00:23:42,869 --> 00:23:44,789 But I think in terms of, like, long 691 00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:47,509 term studies, they're still ongoing. Thankfully, Mark Kelly 692 00:23:47,509 --> 00:23:49,669 had a twin, so we've quite literally got 693 00:23:49,669 -->

00:23:50,329 a control 694 00:23:51,109 --> 00:23:52,789 for who stayed on Earth and who went 695 00:23:52,789 --> 00:23:54,329 to space for a year and experienced, 696 00:23:54,630 --> 00:23:56,089 zero g for that, like, 697 00:23:56,524 --> 00:23:58,444 extended period of time. So those kind of 698 00:23:58,444 --> 00:24:00,764 studies are still going on. So I don't 699 00:24:00,764 --> 00:24:03,325 think we'll we'll fully know from a scientific 700 00:24:03,325 --> 00:24:06,144 perspective and a medical perspective to say, 701 00:24:06,684 --> 00:24:08,764 you know, is it an issue to to 702 00:24:08,764 --> 00:24:09,744 spend that long, 703 00:24:10,204 --> 00:24:11,105 without gravity? 704 00:24:11,899 --> 00:24:14,380 So there's another thing which happens, which is 705 00:24:14,380 --> 00:24:16,619 about relativity and time. And how do you 706 00:24:16,619 --> 00:24:17,619 think they dealt with that in the film? 707 00:24:17,619 --> 00:24:18,700 I thought they dealt with it well. It 708 00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:19,899 was very much sort of one of those 709 00:24:19,899 --> 00:24:21,500 things that if you knew it was happening, 710 00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:22,399 it was there. 711 00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:24,619 But if you weren't aware with it, it 712 00:24:24,619 --> 00:24:26,894 wasn't gonna trip you up in the film, 713 00:24:27,054 --> 00:24:28,654 which I think is is is sort of 714 00:24:28,654 --> 00:24:30,174 a a good way of doing it. So 715 00:24:30,174 --> 00:24:30,575 you're very 716 00:24:31,294 --> 00:24:32,914 you'll hear the ship's computer 717 00:24:33,454 --> 00:24:35,214 say at one point that the the journey 718 00:24:35,214 --> 00:24:35,714 time 719 00:24:36,335 --> 00:24:36,835 is 720 00:24:37,214 --> 00:24:38,355 about four years. 721 00:24:38,670 --> 00:24:40,110 And I won't say what journey time that 722 00:24:40,110 --> 00:24:40,610 is, 723 00:24:41,549 --> 00:24:42,610 but, the technically, 724 00:24:43,070 --> 00:24:45,710 the light travel time for that journey would 725 00:24:45,710 --> 00:24:46,769 have been twelve years. 726 00:24:47,309 --> 00:24:49,390 So if you're, you know, if you're if 727 00:24:49,390 --> 00:24:51,684 you're in the know, you'd go, oh, hang 728 00:24:51,684 --> 00:24:53,365 on a minute. What's going on there? You 729 00:24:53,365 --> 00:24:54,964 know? And you'd think, well, are they somehow 730 00:24:54,964 --> 00:24:57,605 going faster than light? Because as Einstein told 731 00:24:57,605 --> 00:24:59,464 us, nothing can go faster than light. 732 00:24:59,845 --> 00:25:01,205 Traveling at the fastest speed there is in 733 00:25:01,205 --> 00:25:03,845 the universe, about 300,000 kilometers a second or 734 00:25:03,845 --> 00:25:04,964 a 186,000 735 00:25:04,964 --> 00:25:06,744 miles a second for those in imperial. 736 00:25:08,539 --> 00:25:08,700 And, 737 00:25:09,660 --> 00:25:10,779 so you think, okay. Well, how is he 738 00:25:10,779 --> 00:25:11,820 doing it? Well, he's doing it at three 739 00:25:11,820 --> 00:25:13,660 times faster speed than light. But, actually, what's 740 00:25:13,660 --> 00:25:15,259 happening is that you've got what's known as 741 00:25:15,259 --> 00:25:16,000 time dilation. 742 00:25:16,460 --> 00:25:18,460 So the four years is the time that 743 00:25:18,460 --> 00:25:19,759 the ship will experience 744 00:25:20,644 --> 00:25:22,724 traveling at close to the speed of light. 745 00:25:22,724 --> 00:25:23,224 So 746 00:25:23,845 --> 00:25:25,444 time dilation is a is a prediction of 747 00:25:25,444 --> 00:25:27,845 Einstein's theory of special relativity. It's one that 748 00:25:27,845 --> 00:25:29,944 we have proven using 749 00:25:30,565 --> 00:25:33,304 very precise clocks, atomic clocks that have been 750 00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:35,859 flown around the world while one's been left 751 00:25:35,859 --> 00:25:38,100 on Earth and the times compared afterwards and 752 00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:38,920 that they're different. 753 00:25:39,299 --> 00:25:40,900 So you can get time dilation in two 754 00:25:40,900 --> 00:25:43,460 ways. Basically, the the faster you travel, the 755 00:25:43,460 --> 00:25:46,119 less time you experience compared to someone stationary. 756 00:25:46,724 --> 00:25:49,065 And, also, if you're in a heavier gravity, 757 00:25:49,605 --> 00:25:52,244 the less time you experience compared to someone 758 00:25:52,244 --> 00:25:54,565 who is in less gravity. That was a 759 00:25:54,565 --> 00:25:56,424 a plot point that was explored in Interstellar, 760 00:25:58,085 --> 00:25:59,789 in the bit that annoyed me the most. 761 00:26:00,430 --> 00:26:02,350 Just screaming at the screen going, he's like 762 00:26:02,350 --> 00:26:04,210 70. Get back on this shit. 763 00:26:07,470 --> 00:26:08,529 But yeah. So, 764 00:26:09,710 --> 00:26:11,230 where was I? I get so distracted by 765 00:26:11,230 --> 00:26:12,369 Interstellar every day. 766 00:26:14,434 --> 00:26:16,595 Yes. So in in in Project Hail Mary, 767 00:26:16,595 --> 00:26:17,875 it was it was sort of nice to 768 00:26:17,875 --> 00:26:19,894 hear that that was happening. 769 00:26:21,075 --> 00:26:22,755 And in the book as well, there's a 770 00:26:22,755 --> 00:26:24,835 plot point where someone else doesn't know about 771 00:26:24,835 --> 00:26:27,154 relativity, and they were confused and this kind 772 00:26:27,154 --> 00:26:28,674 of stuff, you know, about how long it 773 00:26:28,674 --> 00:26:30,809 would take and how much fuel was needed 774 00:26:30,809 --> 00:26:31,869 and things like that. 775 00:26:32,490 --> 00:26:34,089 So it was really cool to to see 776 00:26:34,089 --> 00:26:35,929 that that was sort of realized in the 777 00:26:35,929 --> 00:26:38,269 film as well, that time dilation was 778 00:26:38,809 --> 00:26:41,309 was sort of not necessarily explicitly said, 779 00:26:41,769 --> 00:26:44,089 but was recognized. There's a character in the 780 00:26:44,089 --> 00:26:46,744 film called Strat. If we do nothing, 781

00:26:51,125 --> 00:26:53,605 everything on this planet will go extinct, including 782 00:26:53,605 --> 00:26:54,105 us. 783 00:26:55,764 --> 00:26:56,744 Doctor Grace, 784 00:26:58,484 --> 00:27:00,179 the world is counting on you. I mean, 785 00:27:00,179 --> 00:27:02,259 she's my favorite character in the book. How 786 00:27:02,259 --> 00:27:04,039 about you? She's one of mine too. 787 00:27:04,419 --> 00:27:04,919 I 788 00:27:05,299 --> 00:27:07,539 I it's funny because I've seen some people 789 00:27:07,539 --> 00:27:09,460 criticize her as just kind of very one 790 00:27:09,619 --> 00:27:11,139 not one dimensional, but that is sort of 791 00:27:11,139 --> 00:27:12,659 like the bossy female role. But I'm like, 792 00:27:12,659 --> 00:27:14,099 yeah. But if you'd had a man playing 793 00:27:14,099 --> 00:27:15,704 that role, you wouldn't have even questioned it 794 00:27:15,784 --> 00:27:16,524 in a way. 795 00:27:17,625 --> 00:27:20,524 So I love her. I think she's great. 796 00:27:21,224 --> 00:27:23,224 And I just think she's no nonsense, and 797 00:27:23,224 --> 00:27:24,284 she's just absolutely 798 00:27:25,144 --> 00:27:27,065 just, yeah, cracks on and and it is 799 00:27:27,065 --> 00:27:29,144 wonderful. And I love how she was played 800 00:27:29,144 --> 00:27:31,190 by Sandra Huler as well in that no 801 00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:33,269 nonsense way, but with sort of this deadpan 802 00:27:33,269 --> 00:27:34,329 humor as well, 803 00:27:34,630 --> 00:27:36,250 was very, very well done. 804 00:27:36,549 --> 00:27:38,390 So I really enjoyed how she brought that 805 00:27:38,390 --> 00:27:40,309 character to to life in the film as 806 00:27:40,309 --> 00:27:40,809 well. 807 00:27:42,069 --> 00:27:43,430 I always probably see bits that I still 808 00:27:43,430 --> 00:27:44,869 wish it ended up in from the book 809 00:27:44,869 --> 00:27:46,150 that weren't in the film and things like 810 00:27:46,150 --> 00:27:47,884 that, But that's that's, you know, even unless 811 00:27:47,884 --> 00:27:49,184 you made a five hour film, 812 00:27:49,724 --> 00:27:50,384 you know? 813 00:27:52,444 --> 00:27:55,424 If we did have something like this happen, 814 00:27:55,484 --> 00:27:57,804 if we had a a situation where the 815 00:27:57,804 --> 00:27:58,785 Earth was in 816 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:00,380 dire peril, 817 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,240 what Andy Weir does in his story is 818 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,420 is give all the power to one person. 819 00:28:05,799 --> 00:28:07,480 Which I think is a terrible idea, but 820 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,100 great for a story. Yeah. Okay. 821 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:09,980 Okay. 822 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:11,559 It's 11.9 823 00:28:11,559 --> 00:28:13,100 light years away. The astronauts 824 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,184 die in space. It's what you Americans would 825 00:28:16,184 --> 00:28:19,065 call a lung shot. Hail Mary. I get 826 00:28:19,065 --> 00:28:20,825 it. What Earth is gonna sign up for 827 00:28:20,825 --> 00:28:22,505 this? I mean, I would not wanna live 828 00:28:22,505 --> 00:28:23,785 in a world that has a Strat at 829 00:28:23,785 --> 00:28:24,525 all times. 830 00:28:25,224 --> 00:28:27,785 Strat had unrivaled authority. She's probably the most 831 00:28:27,785 --> 00:28:29,805 powerful human being of all time, 832 00:28:30,250 --> 00:28:32,009 And, like, she could tell countries what to 833 00:28:32,009 --> 00:28:32,829 do, and 834 00:28:33,130 --> 00:28:34,809 it's kinda like an ancient Rome. They had 835 00:28:34,890 --> 00:28:35,609 what was it? They, 836 00:28:36,730 --> 00:28:38,329 they could, declare someone 837 00:28:38,809 --> 00:28:40,650 I forget what it was. It was I 838 00:28:40,650 --> 00:28:42,589 forget the name of the act, but basically, 839 00:28:42,650 --> 00:28:44,569 the senate could vote for that person to 840 00:28:44,569 --> 00:28:45,255 have, like, 841 00:28:45,654 --> 00:28:47,734 complete dictatorial power for a certain length of 842 00:28:47,734 --> 00:28:49,835 time and then and then go back. 843 00:28:50,134 --> 00:28:52,454 And that's kind of what happened for Earth 844 00:28:52,454 --> 00:28:54,535 is that everybody said, like, okay. We don't 845 00:28:54,535 --> 00:28:55,515 have time for 846 00:28:55,894 --> 00:28:58,615 slow ass UN committees to try to figure 847 00:28:58,615 --> 00:28:59,595 out the best, 848 00:28:59,929 --> 00:29:02,089 you know, color for the flight manual cover. 849 00:29:02,089 --> 00:29:03,690 I mean, we we don't have time for 850 00:29:03,690 --> 00:29:04,509 that. We need 851 00:29:04,890 --> 00:29:07,210 this to go very rapidly. So they put 852 00:29:07,210 --> 00:29:09,130 all their eggs in the strat basket and 853 00:29:09,130 --> 00:29:10,029 had her just 854 00:29:10,730 --> 00:29:13,414 run everything. And they picked the right person. 855 00:29:13,414 --> 00:29:13,815 I mean 856 00:29:14,695 --> 00:29:16,775 Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Didn't they? K. The the 857 00:29:16,775 --> 00:29:18,295 thing in the book is that we don't 858 00:29:18,295 --> 00:29:19,654 have time to do it by committee, so 859 00:29:19,654 --> 00:29:21,494 we give it to one single person. The 860 00:29:21,494 --> 00:29:23,174 thing is the committee would decide the person. 861 00:29:23,174 --> 00:29:25,170 Right? And, it still take ages. 862 00:29:25,970 --> 00:29:27,250 But I think the fact that we have 863 00:29:27,250 --> 00:29:29,490 those kind of committees in due process in 864 00:29:29,490 --> 00:29:31,990 all aspects of whether it is space agency, 865 00:29:32,049 --> 00:29:32,549 government, 866 00:29:32,930 --> 00:29:35,109 you know, United Nations, whatever it might be, 867 00:29:35,650 --> 00:29:36,950 I think is is good. 868 00:29:38,529 --> 00:29:40,390 Yes, it will slow things down, but 869 00:29:41,184 --> 00:29:42,785 the kind of power that Strat has in 870 00:29:42,785 --> 00:29:44,224 the book. And I think perhaps that is 871 00:29:44,224 --> 00:29:45,664 the thing that

doesn't come across in the 872 00:29:45,664 --> 00:29:47,045 film is the just 873 00:29:47,664 --> 00:29:50,945 just how much power she singularly has. Like, 874 00:29:50,945 --> 00:29:52,305 the scene in the book where she's in 875 00:29:52,305 --> 00:29:53,605 a courtroom, and 876 00:29:54,259 --> 00:29:57,460 they are, you know, suing her because she's 877 00:29:57,460 --> 00:29:59,799 put every single, you know, book 878 00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:01,000 and, 879 00:30:01,460 --> 00:30:04,119 piece of software ever, you know, that's been, 880 00:30:04,819 --> 00:30:06,899 ever, you know, ever produced by humans onto 881 00:30:06,899 --> 00:30:08,659 the onto the Hail Mary ship because we 882 00:30:08,659 --> 00:30:10,315 don't know what would be needed. And they're 883 00:30:10,315 --> 00:30:12,795 suing her for, like, IP. You know? And 884 00:30:12,795 --> 00:30:14,075 she's like, I just don't have time for 885 00:30:14,075 --> 00:30:16,555 this. You know? Like, I every government in 886 00:30:16,555 --> 00:30:17,914 the world has said I can do this. 887 00:30:17,914 --> 00:30:18,975 Why are we here? 888 00:30:19,515 --> 00:30:21,755 And just walks out. You know? And I 889 00:30:21,755 --> 00:30:23,819 just I I wish I had that, 890 00:30:24,359 --> 00:30:26,200 a bit more Strath in me sometimes, you 891 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:27,099 know, to just 892 00:30:27,799 --> 00:30:29,659 just no nonsense and just go 893 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,639 no, and and shut that kind of side 894 00:30:31,639 --> 00:30:33,179 of things down in in a way. 895 00:30:34,279 --> 00:30:35,659 If we did have to, 896 00:30:36,119 --> 00:30:37,819 give all that power to one person, 897 00:30:38,545 --> 00:30:40,065 is Straub the right person to give it 898 00:30:40,065 --> 00:30:41,984 to? Is there anybody that you can think 899 00:30:41,984 --> 00:30:44,945 of on earth who we would say, like, 900 00:30:44,945 --> 00:30:46,945 you're the right person to give this money? 901 00:30:46,945 --> 00:30:48,945 Absolutely not. No. I don't think it was 902 00:30:49,904 --> 00:30:51,744 and and if anybody said they were the 903 00:30:51,744 --> 00:30:53,460 right person, that would make them less of 904 00:30:53,460 --> 00:30:56,019 the right person Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Is the 905 00:30:56,019 --> 00:30:58,339 problem. So I have a tremendous amount of 906 00:30:58,339 --> 00:31:00,500 faith in humanity. You can probably tell from 907 00:31:00,500 --> 00:31:02,839 my writing that I'm a pretty optimistic guy, 908 00:31:02,980 --> 00:31:05,220 especially when it comes to humanity and human 909 00:31:05,220 --> 00:31:07,299 nature and our ability to cooperate and work 910 00:31:07,299 --> 00:31:07,799 together. 911 00:31:08,105 --> 00:31:10,105 And if anything, I think the pandemic has 912 00:31:10,105 --> 00:31:12,025 shown that we do that. So I do 913 00:31:12,025 --> 00:31:13,865 think that the world works together when there's 914 00:31:13,865 --> 00:31:16,345 a common problem.

If it's a direct and 915 00:31:16,345 --> 00:31:16,845 immediate, 916 00:31:18,105 --> 00:31:19,325 problem like COVID, 917 00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:21,589 We're not so great at it when it's 918 00:31:21,589 --> 00:31:24,809 a slow burn like environmental damage, but 919 00:31:25,909 --> 00:31:28,329 you you can't expect us to all be 920 00:31:28,389 --> 00:31:31,109 completely perfectly efficient at all times in every 921 00:31:31,109 --> 00:31:33,769 way. But I do think that that humanity 922 00:31:33,829 --> 00:31:34,730 is pretty awesome. 923 00:31:35,134 --> 00:31:36,975 And the one example I like to give 924 00:31:36,975 --> 00:31:39,394 is if you, you know, if a guy 925 00:31:39,455 --> 00:31:41,535 falls on the street and breaks his leg 926 00:31:41,535 --> 00:31:44,494 and a total stranger helps him, calls the 927 00:31:44,575 --> 00:31:46,575 calls an ambulance, helps get him to a 928 00:31:46,575 --> 00:31:48,750 hospital, Do you see that on the news? 929 00:31:49,210 --> 00:31:49,710 No. 930 00:31:50,089 --> 00:31:52,410 It doesn't make the news because it's so 931 00:31:52,410 --> 00:31:55,690 normal. It is so presumed in human behavior 932 00:31:55,690 --> 00:31:57,529 to help each other out like that that 933 00:31:57,529 --> 00:32:00,170 it's not even newsworthy. What's newsworthy is when 934 00:32:00,170 --> 00:32:00,990 someone doesn't. 935 00:32:01,644 --> 00:32:03,244 And so the fact that you see all 936 00:32:03,244 --> 00:32:05,244 this negative stuff on the news, look at 937 00:32:05,244 --> 00:32:06,684 the negative stuff you see on the news 938 00:32:06,684 --> 00:32:08,605 and remind yourself, the only reason it's on 939 00:32:08,605 --> 00:32:10,625 the news is because it's abnormal. 940 00:32:11,404 --> 00:32:13,565 It's very abnormal. So when you see people 941 00:32:13,565 --> 00:32:16,359 being callous or being horrible to each other, 942 00:32:16,359 --> 00:32:19,160 that is abnormal by definition because it's on 943 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:19,819 the news. 944 00:32:20,519 --> 00:32:22,680 What you don't see is the billions of 945 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:23,180 little 946 00:32:23,559 --> 00:32:24,380 acts of 947 00:32:24,839 --> 00:32:27,720 acts of, selflessness by humanity every day. This 948 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,579 might be very hard for you to understand, 949 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,154 but some people are not good at things. 950 00:32:34,575 --> 00:32:36,015 You know who you are. You're gonna do 951 00:32:36,015 --> 00:32:38,275 great. I conquered zero g in five hours. 952 00:32:38,894 --> 00:32:39,394 Yeah. 953 00:32:42,414 --> 00:32:43,554 Object approaching. 954 00:32:45,539 --> 00:32:46,599 Oh my god. 955 00:32:48,339 --> 00:32:49,799 You know a lot about space. 956 00:32:50,500 --> 00:32:51,880 You know a lot about communicating. 957 00:32:52,819 --> 00:32:54,819 Maybe you might be in the room in 958 00:32:54,980 --> 00:32:56,419 you maybe you might be in one of 959 00:32:56,419 --> 00:32:57,159 those discussions. 960 00:32:57,460 --> 00:32:59,960 But what you might not find yourself doing 961 00:33:00,259 --> 00:33:00,759 is 962 00:33:01,275 --> 00:33:03,295 in a bar with karaoke. 963 00:33:04,394 --> 00:33:05,914 It No. You would find me that's where 964 00:33:05,914 --> 00:33:07,835 you'd find me. Oh. That's the more likely 965 00:33:07,835 --> 00:33:09,195 scene in the film that you'd wanna be 966 00:33:09,195 --> 00:33:10,494 doing karaoke. 967 00:33:10,955 --> 00:33:12,875 I do a great Bonnie Tyler. I've just 968 00:33:12,875 --> 00:33:14,799 put that. Is that right? Because that was 969 00:33:14,799 --> 00:33:16,720 what was that's actually gonna be my question, 970 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,720 which is, you know, if you were kind 971 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:19,220 of 972 00:33:19,759 --> 00:33:22,640 in that situation, maybe you're falling for someone, 973 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,019 maybe you're not, who knows. 974 00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:26,640 May Oh, I didn't like that aspect of 975 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,000 it, actually. I was like, no. There was 976 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,085 no relationship there. Don't they really did do. 977 00:33:30,085 --> 00:33:32,244 But anyway Yeah. There's a Maybe some people 978 00:33:32,244 --> 00:33:33,644 read into it that I didn't, but yeah. 979 00:33:33,644 --> 00:33:35,065 I don't know. But, 980 00:33:36,404 --> 00:33:38,025 the the world's kinda failing. 981 00:33:39,365 --> 00:33:40,184 You've got 982 00:33:40,884 --> 00:33:42,424 a a choice of a song. 983 00:33:43,045 --> 00:33:44,025 What do you pick? 984 00:33:44,700 --> 00:33:46,619 Yeah. Well, my usual karaoke song is Total 985 00:33:46,619 --> 00:33:48,380 Eclipse of the Heart by Bonnie Tyler, but 986 00:33:48,380 --> 00:33:50,619 that feels not appropriate for The World is 987 00:33:50,619 --> 00:33:51,119 Ending. 988 00:33:51,659 --> 00:33:53,179 So what would I Total Eclipse is a 989 00:33:53,179 --> 00:33:54,700 bit on the nose as well, wouldn't it? 990 00:33:54,700 --> 00:33:55,899 The end of the world as we know 991 00:33:55,899 --> 00:33:56,720 it, I guess. 992 00:33:59,845 --> 00:34:00,345 Amazing. 993 00:34:01,204 --> 00:34:02,884 Yeah. I think Sign of the Times was 994 00:34:02,884 --> 00:34:04,505 a great track to pick. 995 00:34:05,684 --> 00:34:06,424 But yeah. 996 00:34:08,644 --> 00:34:10,565 The National has a song called Light Years. 997 00:34:10,565 --> 00:34:12,984 It's like you're only light years away. Yeah. 998 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:14,059 That would be appropriate 999 00:34:14,519 --> 00:34:16,380 for this. That's that would be amazing. 1000 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:18,360 For this story. Do do you do a 1001 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,519 good night when you're in the, it No. 1002 00:34:20,519 --> 00:34:21,019 I've 1003 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,640 not got enough sad dad in me. Well, 1004 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,079 I've got loads of sad dad in me. 1005 00:34:25,079 --> 00:34:26,219 Maybe I'll try it.

1006 00:34:27,454 --> 00:34:28,815 I just have a big grin on my 1007 00:34:28,815 --> 00:34:30,735 face throughout the whole thing. But can anyone 1008 00:34:30,735 --> 00:34:32,755 do my good Matt Biddens channeling again? 1009 00:34:34,094 --> 00:34:36,094 Okay. There's another right. So, 1010 00:34:36,735 --> 00:34:38,015 I don't know how to do this without 1011 00:34:38,015 --> 00:34:40,650 spoilers. Well, the trailer shows you Rocky. Right? 1012 00:34:40,650 --> 00:34:42,569 So This is and I know that so 1013 00:34:42,569 --> 00:34:44,329 I I particularly as a book fan as 1014 00:34:44,329 --> 00:34:46,089 well. So I went into Project Hail Mary 1015 00:34:46,089 --> 00:34:46,989 completely blind. 1016 00:34:47,609 --> 00:34:49,130 I did not even read the blurb. I 1017 00:34:49,130 --> 00:34:50,409 just was like, it's a sci fi thing. 1018 00:34:50,409 --> 00:34:52,730 Cool. Just tell me more. So I had 1019 00:34:52,730 --> 00:34:54,569 all the reveals that the character had as 1020 00:34:54,569 --> 00:34:56,244 well. And so I understand 1021 00:34:57,025 --> 00:34:59,125 why people were so annoyed that they 1022 00:34:59,505 --> 00:35:01,425 put something in the trailer that I think 1023 00:35:01,425 --> 00:35:02,945 you're about to say, but, like, they put 1024 00:35:02,945 --> 00:35:04,465 something in the trailer that was a big, 1025 00:35:04,465 --> 00:35:05,285 big reveal. 1026 00:35:05,664 --> 00:35:08,144 So I met an alien. He's kinda growing 1027 00:35:08,144 --> 00:35:09,344 on me. At least he's not growing in 1028 00:35:09,344 --> 00:35:10,960 me, you know, which was a concern for 1029 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:11,780 a little while. 1030 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,304 I'm Grace. I'm gonna call you Rocky. Thumbs 1031 00:35:24,304 --> 00:35:24,804 up. 1032 00:35:25,824 --> 00:35:28,144 No. That's thumbs down. If we do the 1033 00:35:28,144 --> 00:35:29,364 thumbs up, 1034 00:35:31,424 --> 00:35:32,484 it's close enough. 1035 00:35:34,625 --> 00:35:36,385 Yeah. No. It's it it is a shame, 1036 00:35:36,385 --> 00:35:37,904 isn't it? But they are two different things, 1037 00:35:37,904 --> 00:35:38,760 aren't they? And that's 1038 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,320 that's just one of those. What what I 1039 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,239 love about the book when I was watching 1040 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:44,840 the film, I was like, I remember this, 1041 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,360 the start of the film. You have that, 1042 00:35:47,159 --> 00:35:47,980 Ryan Gosling, 1043 00:35:48,519 --> 00:35:49,500 Brian and Grace 1044 00:35:50,119 --> 00:35:50,619 character 1045 00:35:51,305 --> 00:35:52,825 going around the ship. I mean, that just 1046 00:35:52,825 --> 00:35:55,065 lasts for ages in the boat. Right? It's 1047 00:35:55,065 --> 00:35:56,825 just pissing. And and I like the bit 1048 00:35:56,825 --> 00:35:58,765 where he drops something, and he realizes, 1049 00:35:59,065 --> 00:36:01,545 that fell weird. Mhmm. Mhmm. And that's how 1050 00:36:01,545 --> 00:36:03,704 he realized he's he's in space or at 1051 00:36:03,704 --> 00:36:05,164 least in a centrifuge because 1052 00:36:05,489 --> 00:36:07,969 it was falling at a different gravity. It 1053 00:36:07,969 --> 00:36:10,309 was at 1.5 g rather than one g. 1054 00:36:10,610 --> 00:36:12,449 The sun is not the only star dying. 1055 00:36:12,449 --> 00:36:14,929 Every star was infected by its neighbor except 1056 00:36:14,929 --> 00:36:16,070 one. Why? 1057 00:36:16,369 --> 00:36:18,775 We don't know. Which is why we build 1058 00:36:18,775 --> 00:36:19,514 a ship 1059 00:36:19,974 --> 00:36:21,655 to go there and find out. Now Andy 1060 00:36:21,655 --> 00:36:23,655 Weir does famously do an awful lot of 1061 00:36:23,655 --> 00:36:26,614 work into the background and the science that 1062 00:36:26,614 --> 00:36:27,434 goes into 1063 00:36:27,735 --> 00:36:29,335 his books. One time when I spoke to 1064 00:36:29,335 --> 00:36:32,394 him, he said that he would go away 1065 00:36:32,710 --> 00:36:35,750 and spend a day, maybe half a day, 1066 00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:37,989 maybe two days on the maths of a 1067 00:36:37,989 --> 00:36:40,150 particular problem for The Martian, and then it 1068 00:36:40,150 --> 00:36:42,150 would end up as being one sentence in 1069 00:36:42,150 --> 00:36:44,710 the book. So I asked him about how 1070 00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:46,809 he went about creating the world, 1071 00:36:47,110 --> 00:36:47,474 which 1072 00:36:48,035 --> 00:36:50,035 admittedly, at the time that he was writing 1073 00:36:50,035 --> 00:36:52,675 this, the science was suggesting there was actually 1074 00:36:52,675 --> 00:36:54,614 a real planet, a real exoplanet 1075 00:36:55,235 --> 00:36:56,375 orbiting the star. 1076 00:36:56,835 --> 00:36:58,914 So he was basing this on real science 1077 00:36:58,914 --> 00:37:00,135 at the time. As it happens, 1078 00:37:00,500 --> 00:37:03,219 the latest data suggests that actually there isn't 1079 00:37:03,219 --> 00:37:04,599 a planet there, and it's 1080 00:37:05,059 --> 00:37:07,380 aspects of the star that are creating the 1081 00:37:07,380 --> 00:37:08,599 dimming that we're seeing. 1082 00:37:08,900 --> 00:37:11,719 Here's Andy Weir. There are actually three biospheres 1083 00:37:11,859 --> 00:37:14,295 involved in this story. There's ours, Earth. 1084 00:37:14,934 --> 00:37:15,755 There is, 1085 00:37:16,454 --> 00:37:18,614 planet Adrian is what they ultimately name it, 1086 00:37:18,614 --> 00:37:20,214 which is a planet in orbit around Tau 1087 00:37:20,214 --> 00:37:22,694 Ceti, and that is basically the homeworld of 1088 00:37:22,694 --> 00:37:23,194 astrophage. 1089 00:37:23,974 --> 00:37:24,474 And, 1090 00:37:24,934 --> 00:37:25,674 then there's, 1091 00:37:26,214 --> 00:37:27,994 the planet Arid around 1092 00:37:28,295 --> 00:37:29,835 the star 40 Eridani, 1093 00:37:30,389 --> 00:37:31,989 and that is the home world of the 1094 00:37:31,989 --> 00:37:34,150 Eridians, which

is an intelligent alien race who 1095 00:37:34,150 --> 00:37:36,789 has the exact same problem that, that the 1096 00:37:36,789 --> 00:37:38,789 humans are having. And so they did the 1097 00:37:38,789 --> 00:37:41,349 exact same thing. The reason everybody went the 1098 00:37:41,349 --> 00:37:43,589 reason these two ships both went to Tau 1099 00:37:43,589 --> 00:37:45,929 Ceti is because for whatever reason, Tau Ceti 1100 00:37:46,025 --> 00:37:48,585 is proven to be immune to astrophage. It's 1101 00:37:48,585 --> 00:37:50,344 the only star in the neighborhood that's not 1102 00:37:50,344 --> 00:37:52,364 dimming. Okay. So that's the setup. 1103 00:37:52,985 --> 00:37:54,985 As for designing Rocky, and Rocky is the 1104 00:37:54,985 --> 00:37:57,485 nickname that our protagonist gives to the alien 1105 00:37:57,704 --> 00:37:58,265 that he meets. 1106 00:37:59,579 --> 00:38:01,599 For the design of Rocky, I had decided 1107 00:38:01,660 --> 00:38:02,160 early 1108 00:38:02,460 --> 00:38:04,000 on that of these three biospheres, 1109 00:38:04,300 --> 00:38:06,059 they're way too close together for it to 1110 00:38:06,059 --> 00:38:08,059 make sense for them to each be a 1111 00:38:08,059 --> 00:38:10,300 separate genesis. Because, I mean, in the grand 1112 00:38:10,300 --> 00:38:12,619 scheme of things, Forti Aridani, Sol, that's the 1113 00:38:12,619 --> 00:38:13,519 name of our star, 1114 00:38:13,894 --> 00:38:16,135 and Tau Ceti are all really close to 1115 00:38:16,135 --> 00:38:18,135 each other. Tau Ceti is 12 light years 1116 00:38:18,135 --> 00:38:20,375 from here. Forti Aradani is 16 light years 1117 00:38:20,375 --> 00:38:22,454 from here, and the Milky Way galaxy is 1118 00:38:22,454 --> 00:38:24,315 a 100,000 light years across. 1119 00:38:24,775 --> 00:38:27,494 So it's just, like, absurdly close together. So 1120 00:38:27,494 --> 00:38:28,074 I decided 1121 00:38:28,929 --> 00:38:31,170 these are not separate genesis events. There was 1122 00:38:31,170 --> 00:38:33,489 a single genesis event. I'm not talking about 1123 00:38:33,489 --> 00:38:36,130 the religious type of genesis. I mean, life 1124 00:38:36,130 --> 00:38:39,110 evolved actually on the planet Adrian 1125 00:38:39,730 --> 00:38:40,130 on 1126 00:38:40,610 --> 00:38:43,474 in orbit around Tau Ceti. And then a, 1127 00:38:43,875 --> 00:38:47,235 an ancestor of astrophy, a like a 4,000,000,000 1128 00:38:47,235 --> 00:38:50,215 years ago ancestor of astrophy, which was another 1129 00:38:50,515 --> 00:38:51,015 interstellar 1130 00:38:51,315 --> 00:38:53,335 traveling life form monosyllular 1131 00:38:53,715 --> 00:38:57,094 thing, seeded Earth and arid with life. 1132 00:38:57,489 --> 00:39:00,070 And so we are actually all very distinctly 1133 00:39:00,130 --> 00:39:00,630 related. 1134 00:39:01,010 --> 00:39:02,690 So this made things a lot easier for 1135 00:39:02,690 --> 00:39:04,210 me. I mean, I did that on purpose 1136 00:39:04,210 --> 00:39:06,130 to explain why we're all so close together, 1137 00:39:06,130 --> 00:39:06,789 but also, 1138 00:39:07,170 --> 00:39:09,110 I don't have to invent all the chemistry 1139 00:39:09,250 --> 00:39:11,010 and stuff for new life. I just say, 1140 00:39:11,010 --> 00:39:13,625 like, okay. If you look at the cells 1141 00:39:13,925 --> 00:39:16,005 in Rocky's body and if you look at 1142 00:39:16,005 --> 00:39:18,425 an astrophage itself, you'll see there's mitochondria, 1143 00:39:18,805 --> 00:39:19,945 ribosomes, DNA, 1144 00:39:20,324 --> 00:39:22,485 all the cellular machinery that is present in 1145 00:39:22,485 --> 00:39:23,844 our own cells. And that made it so 1146 00:39:23,844 --> 00:39:25,364 much easier. I didn't have to invent all 1147 00:39:25,364 --> 00:39:27,300 that crap. Right? And then, 1148 00:39:28,099 --> 00:39:29,860 so that having been said, I'm like, okay. 1149 00:39:29,860 --> 00:39:31,480 It's the same cellular machinery 1150 00:39:31,860 --> 00:39:33,079 as we have on Earth. 1151 00:39:33,780 --> 00:39:36,420 What would this alien species be like? And 1152 00:39:36,420 --> 00:39:38,360 so I'd selected as the planet, 1153 00:39:39,014 --> 00:39:41,815 40 Eridani b. 40 Eridani is a real 1154 00:39:41,815 --> 00:39:44,295 star. It's a solar analog. It's very similar 1155 00:39:44,295 --> 00:39:45,894 to the sun. So I said, well, what 1156 00:39:45,894 --> 00:39:47,275 do we know about that planet? 1157 00:39:47,734 --> 00:39:48,234 And 1158 00:39:48,775 --> 00:39:51,014 it's very close to its star. It orbits 1159 00:39:51,014 --> 00:39:53,269 it orbits in forty six days. It's I 1160 00:39:53,269 --> 00:39:55,589 think it's even closer to 40 Aradani than 1161 00:39:55,589 --> 00:39:57,670 Mercury is to the sun. Right? It's very 1162 00:39:57,670 --> 00:39:58,170 close. 1163 00:39:59,829 --> 00:40:02,469 And it's about eight times the mass of 1164 00:40:02,469 --> 00:40:02,969 Earth. 1165 00:40:03,429 --> 00:40:05,670 We know that. And so I decided, alright, 1166 00:40:05,670 --> 00:40:07,190 there's gonna be life on this planet so 1167 00:40:07,190 --> 00:40:08,329 it has to have an atmosphere. 1168 00:40:08,724 --> 00:40:10,984 Okay. It needs an atmosphere. And also, 1169 00:40:12,005 --> 00:40:13,844 if if a planet's that close to its 1170 00:40:13,844 --> 00:40:16,164 star, the the solar wind from the star 1171 00:40:16,164 --> 00:40:19,065 tends to basically sandblast the atmosphere off, 1172 00:40:19,525 --> 00:40:22,025 unless you have a good magnetic field. So 1173 00:40:22,190 --> 00:40:24,349 I decided Arid would have a good magnetic 1174 00:40:24,349 --> 00:40:26,190 field. The way a planet gets a good 1175 00:40:26,190 --> 00:40:28,190 strong magnetic field is by having a liquid 1176 00:40:28,190 --> 00:40:31,630 iron a liquid ferromagnetic core and spinning really 1177 00:40:31,630 --> 00:40:33,250 fast. Earth spins, 1178 00:40:33,550 --> 00:40:34,849 you know, once a day. 1179 00:40:35,235 --> 00:40:35,954 That's why, 1180

00:40:36,515 --> 00:40:38,515 we have a a much stronger magnetic field 1181 00:40:38,515 --> 00:40:41,815 than, for instance, Venus, which very slowly spins. 1182 00:40:41,875 --> 00:40:43,875 Okay. So I'm like, okay. So they spin 1183 00:40:43,875 --> 00:40:46,434 fast. Now I'm learning things. Their planet, their 1184 00:40:46,434 --> 00:40:46,934 day 1185 00:40:47,309 --> 00:40:49,630 is very short. It's like six hours. And 1186 00:40:49,630 --> 00:40:51,550 their year is very short. It's like forty 1187 00:40:51,550 --> 00:40:52,849 six days. Okay. Great. 1188 00:40:53,150 --> 00:40:54,989 And I'm like, okay. But they're very, very 1189 00:40:54,989 --> 00:40:56,510 close to the star, so it's gonna be 1190 00:40:56,510 --> 00:40:58,050 really, really hot on the planet. 1191 00:40:58,349 --> 00:40:59,949 And there are a lot of different planets 1192 00:40:59,949 --> 00:41:01,514 can be all sorts of different temperature based 1193 00:41:01,514 --> 00:41:03,194 on what their atmosphere is and how thick 1194 00:41:03,194 --> 00:41:05,034 it is and what it's composed of. Like, 1195 00:41:05,034 --> 00:41:07,434 Venus is actually hotter than Mercury despite being 1196 00:41:07,434 --> 00:41:09,135 further away because of its atmosphere. 1197 00:41:10,394 --> 00:41:11,914 So I decided it's gonna be really hot. 1198 00:41:11,914 --> 00:41:13,355 It's gonna be way more than the boiling 1199 00:41:13,355 --> 00:41:14,875 point of water, and we need water to 1200 00:41:14,875 --> 00:41:16,889 survive. And I was like, well, hold on. 1201 00:41:17,130 --> 00:41:19,609 I arbitrarily decided it would be 210 degrees 1202 00:41:19,609 --> 00:41:21,710 Celsius on the surface of their home world. 1203 00:41:22,010 --> 00:41:22,510 And, 1204 00:41:23,130 --> 00:41:26,010 I said, well, if you have, like, 29 1205 00:41:26,010 --> 00:41:29,130 atmospheres of pressure, 210 degrees Celsius water is 1206 00:41:29,130 --> 00:41:29,630 liquid. 1207 00:41:29,994 --> 00:41:31,114 So I'm like, there you go. You got 1208 00:41:31,114 --> 00:41:33,855 liquid water. So all these things came from, 1209 00:41:34,315 --> 00:41:35,914 you know, the environment that they live in 1210 00:41:35,914 --> 00:41:37,934 came from starting off with the real data. 1211 00:41:38,234 --> 00:41:40,875 And then just kind of extrapolating and making 1212 00:41:40,875 --> 00:41:42,489 stuff up as needed. So now I'm like, 1213 00:41:42,489 --> 00:41:44,250 okay. We got a life form that lives 1214 00:41:44,250 --> 00:41:46,329 on the surface of a planet with 29 1215 00:41:46,329 --> 00:41:48,970 atmospheres of pressure. And that atmosphere I'd I 1216 00:41:48,970 --> 00:41:50,890 had decided as pure ammonia because it has 1217 00:41:50,890 --> 00:41:52,510 to be a pretty heavy molecule 1218 00:41:52,890 --> 00:41:55,150 to not get sandblasted by the sun anyway. 1219 00:41:55,974 --> 00:41:57,974 That's why Venus still has its atmosphere because 1220 00:41:57,974 --> 00:42:00,135 it's it's a bunch

of carbon dioxide, and 1221 00:42:00,135 --> 00:42:02,394 that's heavy. So I'm like, alright. 1222 00:42:03,175 --> 00:42:04,214 Ammonia. Well, 1223 00:42:04,934 --> 00:42:06,635 that much ammonia in the atmosphere, 1224 00:42:07,094 --> 00:42:09,414 it would have, like, I figured that atmosphere 1225 00:42:09,414 --> 00:42:11,900 is almost like an ocean. It's basically, like, 1226 00:42:11,900 --> 00:42:13,039 there's there's, 1227 00:42:13,579 --> 00:42:15,420 life kind of in the upper atmosphere that 1228 00:42:15,420 --> 00:42:18,140 absorbs light and, like, and grows that way, 1229 00:42:18,140 --> 00:42:19,900 and then there's life below that that eats 1230 00:42:19,900 --> 00:42:21,579 that, and and then there's life below that 1231 00:42:21,579 --> 00:42:23,260 that eats that life and so on. At 1232 00:42:23,260 --> 00:42:25,660 the surface, there'd be no sunlight reaching the 1233 00:42:25,660 --> 00:42:27,644 surface, just like there's no sunlight reaching the 1234 00:42:27,644 --> 00:42:29,825 sir the the bottom of our ocean. 1235 00:42:30,285 --> 00:42:32,864 And so I'm like, oh, okay. Then iridians 1236 00:42:33,005 --> 00:42:35,164 don't have eyes. They don't have vision. There's 1237 00:42:35,164 --> 00:42:36,925 no such thing as vision. But they do 1238 00:42:36,925 --> 00:42:39,184 need some sort of three-dimensional spatial knowledge. 1239 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:41,980 So sound. They have, like, echolocation. 1240 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:43,179 Like, they can 1241 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,719 hear with sound really well. And then everything 1242 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:47,820 else kinda came from that. It's really hot. 1243 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:49,559 And I had a lot of fun putting 1244 00:42:49,559 --> 00:42:51,960 them together. And and the big epiphany I 1245 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,375 had on that was, okay. I decided that, 1246 00:42:55,075 --> 00:42:57,394 an iridian's body is almost like if a 1247 00:42:57,394 --> 00:42:59,815 beehive had arms and legs and could move. 1248 00:43:00,195 --> 00:43:01,494 Like, there's actually 1249 00:43:02,195 --> 00:43:04,835 only a an iridian weighs, like, 300 plus 1250 00:43:04,835 --> 00:43:05,335 kilograms, 1251 00:43:05,820 --> 00:43:08,539 But there's only eight there's, like, less than 1252 00:43:08,539 --> 00:43:12,460 five kilograms of actually living biological material in 1253 00:43:12,460 --> 00:43:14,700 it. So just as you have hair and 1254 00:43:14,700 --> 00:43:16,480 the lenses of your eyes and your fingernails 1255 00:43:16,940 --> 00:43:18,300 well, not you, Andrew. But 1256 00:43:20,105 --> 00:43:21,864 just wanna be absolutely clear. I could have 1257 00:43:21,864 --> 00:43:23,625 edited that bit out, but there's something quite 1258 00:43:23,625 --> 00:43:26,264 lovely about one of your favorite authors making 1259 00:43:26,264 --> 00:43:28,204 fun of you being follically challenged. 1260 00:43:28,744 --> 00:43:30,824 He's not referring to my fingernails with that

1261 00:43:30,824 --> 00:43:32,984 joke. It is very much to do with 1262 00:43:32,984 --> 00:43:36,119 the hair or, well, the disappearing of the 1263 00:43:36,119 --> 00:43:38,679 hair on my head. Anyway, back to Andy 1264 00:43:38,679 --> 00:43:39,239 Wing. And, 1265 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:42,519 just as you have all those things and 1266 00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:45,239 that's dead tissue that your body created and 1267 00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:46,519 is now part of your body, but it's 1268 00:43:46,519 --> 00:43:49,635 not living anymore, An Iridion's body is almost 1269 00:43:49,635 --> 00:43:52,994 entirely that tissue. Even their blood vessels, everything 1270 00:43:52,994 --> 00:43:54,355 like that are all made out of this 1271 00:43:54,355 --> 00:43:56,595 dead tissue, and they have little worker cells 1272 00:43:56,595 --> 00:43:57,894 that swim through their bloodstream 1273 00:43:58,355 --> 00:44:00,539 to do things to maintain the body. And 1274 00:44:00,539 --> 00:44:02,460 I thought that's a really cool concept, so 1275 00:44:02,460 --> 00:44:03,980 I got to do that. He was supposed 1276 00:44:03,980 --> 00:44:05,660 to be a likable character. Right? I mean, 1277 00:44:05,660 --> 00:44:07,179 I did that on purpose. I wanted him 1278 00:44:07,179 --> 00:44:09,099 to be, like, oh, you like him. He's 1279 00:44:09,099 --> 00:44:10,619 cool. And this is really a story of 1280 00:44:10,619 --> 00:44:12,239 friendship. Yeah. This book. 1281 00:44:12,940 --> 00:44:15,340 Friendship is magic. Right? But, 1282 00:44:16,074 --> 00:44:17,835 I had no idea the response to Rocky. 1283 00:44:17,835 --> 00:44:19,594 People are, like, saying, I would die for 1284 00:44:19,594 --> 00:44:20,735 a project. 1285 00:44:24,235 --> 00:44:24,974 I'm Grace. 1286 00:44:25,515 --> 00:44:26,815 I'm gonna call you Rocky. 1287 00:44:27,195 --> 00:44:29,130 We're here for the same same reason. His 1288 00:44:29,130 --> 00:44:30,349 son is dying too. 1289 00:44:30,969 --> 00:44:32,489 If we're gonna save our planets, we have 1290 00:44:32,489 --> 00:44:33,710 to learn how to communicate. 1291 00:44:34,329 --> 00:44:36,349 I also got to meet Rocky as well. 1292 00:44:37,210 --> 00:44:38,809 In all the press junkets, I got to 1293 00:44:38,809 --> 00:44:40,784 meet Rocky. Did you? When you asked me 1294 00:44:40,784 --> 00:44:42,324 before who did I find Philip? 1295 00:44:42,625 --> 00:44:44,224 They didn't give me any warning. I didn't 1296 00:44:44,224 --> 00:44:45,585 know ahead of time, and they were taking 1297 00:44:45,585 --> 00:44:46,704 me down, and I thought I was gonna 1298 00:44:46,704 --> 00:44:47,505 go in to be Ryan, and I was 1299 00:44:47,505 --> 00:44:49,025 like, okay, cool. It's the Ryan moment, and 1300 00:44:49,025 --> 00:44:50,545 then they were like, okay, so here's Rocky, 1301 00:44:50,545 --> 00:44:52,644 and I was like, oh. Amazing. 1302 00:44:53,585 --> 00:44:54,085 Amazing. 1303 00:44:55,219 --> 00:44:57,059 What a lovely I've I've been loving all 1304 00:44:57,059 --> 00:44:58,739 this stuff that they've been doing with Rocky 1305 00:44:58,739 --> 00:45:01,059 and the promotional stuff. It's been great. But 1306 00:45:01,059 --> 00:45:02,440 there's one thing about Rocky. 1307 00:45:03,299 --> 00:45:04,599 Because his planet 1308 00:45:05,139 --> 00:45:05,639 is 1309 00:45:06,260 --> 00:45:06,760 so, 1310 00:45:07,859 --> 00:45:09,539 the cloud is so dense as far as 1311 00:45:09,539 --> 00:45:10,724 far as I understand it. 1312 00:45:11,684 --> 00:45:12,184 This 1313 00:45:12,644 --> 00:45:13,465 the the Iridians, 1314 00:45:13,765 --> 00:45:14,664 as they know, 1315 00:45:15,525 --> 00:45:18,184 have managed to do space travel without knowing 1316 00:45:18,325 --> 00:45:20,184 about time dilation and radiation. 1317 00:45:20,885 --> 00:45:22,724 Is that possible? I think radiation, yes. If 1318 00:45:22,724 --> 00:45:25,224 you've got such a massively thick atmosphere, then 1319 00:45:25,684 --> 00:45:27,960 perhaps, yeah, there's some filtering that doesn't make 1320 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:29,640 it down to the surface of the planet. 1321 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:30,840 You know? The Earth's, 1322 00:45:32,199 --> 00:45:33,880 magnetic field protects us from a lot of 1323 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,559 it, but also the atmosphere does a lot 1324 00:45:35,559 --> 00:45:37,820 of hard work as well. So cosmic rays, 1325 00:45:38,534 --> 00:45:40,454 radiation comes into the very top of the 1326 00:45:40,454 --> 00:45:43,094 atmosphere and creates, like, a a big shower 1327 00:45:43,094 --> 00:45:45,014 of other particles when it hits into a 1328 00:45:45,094 --> 00:45:45,914 an air molecule. 1329 00:45:46,534 --> 00:45:47,914 And we detect those, 1330 00:45:48,295 --> 00:45:49,815 you know, on the ground with all sorts 1331 00:45:49,815 --> 00:45:51,335 of things like chair and cover rays and 1332 00:45:51,335 --> 00:45:53,440 stuff like that. And sometimes in particle accelerators, 1333 00:45:53,500 --> 00:45:55,420 I think they can have an impact on. 1334 00:45:55,420 --> 00:45:57,119 Correct me if I'm wrong, particle physicist. 1335 00:45:59,420 --> 00:46:01,440 So, yes, I think that is a 1336 00:46:01,819 --> 00:46:04,059 a possibility in that respect. What what I 1337 00:46:04,059 --> 00:46:06,319 had to suspend disbelief about is 1338 00:46:07,224 --> 00:46:08,844 whether they would even know spaces 1339 00:46:09,545 --> 00:46:11,864 there because they've also evolved that they they 1340 00:46:11,864 --> 00:46:14,505 don't use light to communicate, to see, or 1341 00:46:14,505 --> 00:46:16,045 anything like that. They just use sound. 1342 00:46:16,905 --> 00:46:19,385 So if you don't know to to look 1343 00:46:19,385 --> 00:46:21,545 up but they do know about light, I 1344 00:46:21,545 --> 00:46:22,045 guess. 1345 00:46:22,409 --> 00:46:24,569 So how how did they figure out light? 1346 00:46:24,569 --> 00:46:25,849 But I guess that's like saying how did 1347 00:46:25,849 -->

00:46:27,769 we figure out magnetic fields, I guess, because 1348 00:46:27,769 --> 00:46:28,969 you you know, you can't see it. You 1349 00:46:28,969 --> 00:46:30,250 don't interact with it. How do you know 1350 00:46:30,250 --> 00:46:32,010 it's there? So there is some sort of 1351 00:46:32,010 --> 00:46:33,369 that suspension of disbelief, 1352 00:46:34,674 --> 00:46:36,135 a little bit to sort of believe 1353 00:46:36,755 --> 00:46:37,974 that side of the story. 1354 00:46:39,074 --> 00:46:40,594 I guess that's the question for the the 1355 00:46:40,594 --> 00:46:42,914 sort of the astrophysicist and the astrochemists out 1356 00:46:42,914 --> 00:46:45,014 there and things is, like, how life 1357 00:46:45,474 --> 00:46:47,474 like that would would evolve and whether that 1358 00:46:47,474 --> 00:46:48,375 would be realistic. 1359 00:46:49,460 --> 00:46:51,219 So I can understand the not knowing about 1360 00:46:51,219 --> 00:46:53,139 time dilation and relativity, because if you think 1361 00:46:53,139 --> 00:46:54,900 about it, we went to the into the 1362 00:46:54,900 --> 00:46:55,400 moon 1363 00:46:55,859 --> 00:46:58,179 without knowing a lot of more modern day 1364 00:46:58,179 --> 00:46:59,699 science in the past fifty years. Right? It 1365 00:46:59,699 --> 00:47:01,460 was just thrust in that direction in a 1366 00:47:01,460 --> 00:47:03,480 tin can and off you go kinda thing. 1367 00:47:04,019 --> 00:47:04,839 So I can 1368 00:47:05,175 --> 00:47:07,735 understand that it that whole they have if 1369 00:47:07,735 --> 00:47:09,335 I can just this if I can suspend 1370 00:47:09,335 --> 00:47:11,494 disbelief that, okay, they knew about space despite 1371 00:47:11,494 --> 00:47:14,375 not having anything to detect light with, and 1372 00:47:14,375 --> 00:47:16,454 they'll know about it, I can suspend disbelief 1373 00:47:16,454 --> 00:47:18,315 that they managed to build a spacecraft and 1374 00:47:18,375 --> 00:47:20,880 and hop on over there. Would you do 1375 00:47:21,579 --> 00:47:23,500 the trip? Would they have to kind of 1376 00:47:23,500 --> 00:47:25,260 induce a coma in you to to get 1377 00:47:25,260 --> 00:47:26,960 you to go to space? 1378 00:47:28,940 --> 00:47:31,599 There's two very warring sides of me because 1379 00:47:32,295 --> 00:47:33,894 one side of me is very happy with 1380 00:47:33,894 --> 00:47:35,175 my feet on the ground looking through a 1381 00:47:35,175 --> 00:47:37,434 telescope and not going anywhere near space. 1382 00:47:38,054 --> 00:47:39,494 The other side of me is the one 1383 00:47:39,494 --> 00:47:42,135 that is, like, I always get a window 1384 00:47:42,135 --> 00:47:43,974 seat on an airplane. Like, I'm the person 1385 00:47:43,974 --> 00:47:45,734 that's, like, yeah, just two hour flight when 1386 00:47:45,734 --> 00:47:47,190 it flew by, because I was just looking 1387 00:47:47,190 --> 00:47:49,030 out the window the entire time. That was 1388 00:47:49,030 --> 00:47:50,170 my TV. Right? 1389 00:47:50,469 --> 00:47:52,309 I literally just took a flight from Palm 1390 00:47:52,309 --> 00:47:53,369 Springs to Seattle, 1391 00:47:53,829 --> 00:47:55,989 and I must have gone over eight national 1392 00:47:55,989 --> 00:47:57,750 parks. And I was I was literally just 1393 00:47:57,750 --> 00:47:59,829 like I saw Yosemite from a plane, and 1394 00:47:59,829 --> 00:48:01,855 I looked down the whole of Yosemite Valley 1395 00:48:01,855 --> 00:48:03,954 and was like, this is the coolest experience. 1396 00:48:04,414 --> 00:48:06,914 And, like, everyone else is just watching film. 1397 00:48:08,335 --> 00:48:09,694 So that part of me, I just I 1398 00:48:09,694 --> 00:48:10,734 would love to go to space because I 1399 00:48:10,734 --> 00:48:11,934 would just stare out the window the entire 1400 00:48:11,934 --> 00:48:13,614 time at the view of Earth, at least, 1401 00:48:13,614 --> 00:48:15,234 if I was in orbit around Earth. 1402 00:48:16,650 --> 00:48:17,150 I 1403 00:48:17,530 --> 00:48:18,030 I 1404 00:48:18,489 --> 00:48:19,929 I guess if I was to go on 1405 00:48:19,929 --> 00:48:21,289 a long journey, the view would be a 1406 00:48:21,289 --> 00:48:22,969 little bit it would be the same. Well, 1407 00:48:22,969 --> 00:48:24,170 I guess it wouldn't be the same starry 1408 00:48:24,170 --> 00:48:25,210 night. It would be fun to see how 1409 00:48:25,210 --> 00:48:27,050 constellations change and things like this, and you 1410 00:48:27,050 --> 00:48:29,289 would have a perfect dark sky. Right? You 1411 00:48:29,289 --> 00:48:31,514 would have the darkest of dark skies, so 1412 00:48:31,514 --> 00:48:32,494 that would be great. 1413 00:48:34,635 --> 00:48:37,034 I think I've always said if space travel 1414 00:48:37,034 --> 00:48:37,534 becomes 1415 00:48:37,994 --> 00:48:39,855 as blase as air travel 1416 00:48:40,155 --> 00:48:41,855 currently is for us, 1417 00:48:42,474 --> 00:48:42,974 then 1418 00:48:43,275 --> 00:48:45,195 you may find me one day going to 1419 00:48:45,195 --> 00:48:45,599 space, 1420 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:48,019 from the sort of commercialization 1421 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,579 of space travel and things like that. 1422 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:52,640 But if I could have ever remote it, 1423 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:53,140 probably 1424 00:48:53,599 --> 00:48:54,099 not. 1425 00:48:55,119 --> 00:48:57,300 I say probably most likely not. 1426 00:48:58,635 --> 00:49:00,315 In terms of a long mission like this, 1427 00:49:00,315 --> 00:49:01,835 though, I wouldn't be the person that would 1428 00:49:01,835 --> 00:49:03,934 be volunteering to be the science specialist. 1429 00:49:05,195 --> 00:49:07,594 Unfortunately, I don't have the, the brave gene 1430 00:49:07,594 --> 00:49:08,094 as 1431 00:49:08,394 --> 00:49:10,349 Ryan yeah. Rylan Grace puts it in the 1432 00:49:10,349 --> 00:49:11,670 film. Yeah. You don't need that. You just 1433 00:49:11,670 --> 00:49:13,429 need to find someone to be brave for. 1434

00:49:13,429 --> 00:49:15,190 That's what I'm I knew you were gonna 1435 00:49:15,190 --> 00:49:15,929 say that. 1436 00:49:17,109 --> 00:49:19,190 I do I need I'd I'd I'd alright. 1437 00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:20,550 Fine. I'd I'd get on it for my 1438 00:49:20,550 --> 00:49:21,050 cat. 1439 00:49:22,309 --> 00:49:23,929 Amazing. What's your cat's name? 1440 00:49:24,505 --> 00:49:27,244 Pippin. Pippin. Guess guess what? That's a reference 1441 00:49:27,385 --> 00:49:27,885 to 1442 00:49:28,184 --> 00:49:30,824 full name, Peregrin Took. It means when she's 1443 00:49:30,824 --> 00:49:32,425 being crazy cat, I can call her full 1444 00:49:32,425 --> 00:49:33,244 of a took. 1445 00:49:34,905 --> 00:49:37,224 Brilliant. Brilliant. Okay. So there's there is a 1446 00:49:37,224 --> 00:49:38,905 a beautiful moment in the film, for me 1447 00:49:38,905 --> 00:49:39,329 at least, 1448 00:49:39,890 --> 00:49:40,390 where, 1449 00:49:41,250 --> 00:49:42,550 Grace has to use 1450 00:49:42,849 --> 00:49:45,110 basic geometry, a sextant to, 1451 00:49:46,050 --> 00:49:48,230 work out how to move. And, 1452 00:49:49,010 --> 00:49:50,690 what I really love about that, and it's 1453 00:49:50,690 --> 00:49:53,170 what I really love about Andy Weir's work 1454 00:49:53,170 --> 00:49:56,295 generally, is that he he's found a way 1455 00:49:56,675 --> 00:49:57,655 in that story 1456 00:49:58,355 --> 00:50:00,275 to make it so that you can't just 1457 00:50:00,275 --> 00:50:01,954 use a computer to do it. Right? You 1458 00:50:01,954 --> 00:50:04,835 have to do the the foundational math so 1459 00:50:04,835 --> 00:50:06,835 that you have to do the foundational geometry 1460 00:50:06,835 --> 00:50:08,215 of it to make it work. 1461 00:50:09,235 --> 00:50:10,054 My concern, 1462 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,380 and I don't think I'm alone in this, 1463 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:14,900 is that what we're doing 1464 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:16,500 currently in society 1465 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:18,180 with AI 1466 00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,680 Mhmm. Is to remove all of the need 1467 00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:23,840 for that. So if we do find ourselves 1468 00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:25,840 not necessarily in a situation where we have 1469 00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:27,275 to, you know, navigate 1470 00:50:27,655 --> 00:50:30,454 stars, but maybe where we have to solve 1471 00:50:30,454 --> 00:50:33,414 complex issues. If the tech fails us, we're 1472 00:50:33,414 --> 00:50:34,954 in difficulties, aren't we? 1473 00:50:35,335 --> 00:50:36,614 Do you share that? Do you think it's 1474 00:50:36,614 --> 00:50:38,155 important for people to understand 1475 00:50:38,829 --> 00:50:40,369 and learn about the foundational 1476 00:50:41,069 --> 00:50:41,969 aspects of 1477 00:50:42,349 --> 00:50:43,089 our universe? 1478 00:50:43,789 --> 00:50:46,429 Yeah. Definitely. I think the oh, I mean, 1479 00:50:46,429 --> 00:50:48,030 you could have made this argument twenty years 1480 00:50:48,030 --> 00:50:49,789 ago about the overreliance on tech. Right? It's 1481 00:50:49,789 --> 00:50:51,309 just new tech with AI. You know? You 1482 00:50:51,309 --> 00:50:52,829 see the story crop up over and over 1483 00:50:52,829 --> 00:50:53,329 again. 1484 00:50:55,704 --> 00:50:57,005 And I think, you know, 1485 00:50:57,385 --> 00:50:59,025 the argument then was, oh, if we've got 1486 00:50:59,144 --> 00:51:01,324 you know, if we can just code up, 1487 00:51:01,385 --> 00:51:02,045 you know, 1488 00:51:02,585 --> 00:51:04,984 all of this stuff, then then we'd never 1489 00:51:04,984 --> 00:51:06,585 do the maths and we'll lose our basic 1490 00:51:06,585 --> 00:51:08,680 math skills. But then you learn by the 1491 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:10,360 doing the coding and things like that. I 1492 00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:11,019 guess then 1493 00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:13,559 the new argument is if you can just 1494 00:51:13,559 --> 00:51:15,160 ask AI to write you the code to 1495 00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,180 do this specific thing, then you don't understand 1496 00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,480 the the black box of what's going on 1497 00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,800 inside it and and understand the the science 1498 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:23,434 behind it. So, yes, 1499 00:51:24,135 --> 00:51:24,875 I just 1500 00:51:25,655 --> 00:51:27,335 I wonder whether it's sort of a hypothetical 1501 00:51:27,335 --> 00:51:28,775 question of whether you'd ever need to do 1502 00:51:28,775 --> 00:51:30,235 a back of the envelope calculation 1503 00:51:30,695 --> 00:51:32,535 with using a sextant of which direction to 1504 00:51:32,535 --> 00:51:34,215 go in rather than having a computer to 1505 00:51:34,215 --> 00:51:35,755 necessarily have to do it. 1506 00:51:36,860 --> 00:51:38,300 But I do worry about the over reliance 1507 00:51:38,300 --> 00:51:39,920 on tech, especially if someone in 1508 00:51:40,300 --> 00:51:40,800 academia, 1509 00:51:41,260 --> 00:51:43,980 you know, supervising students and things like that. 1510 00:51:43,980 --> 00:51:45,679 And you you think, okay. Well, 1511 00:51:46,539 --> 00:51:48,159 how much are they actually, 1512 00:51:49,184 --> 00:51:50,785 you know, just very gung hoing with the 1513 00:51:50,785 --> 00:51:52,864 date? Because I'm an observational astrophysicist, so it's 1514 00:51:52,864 --> 00:51:54,385 very much, like, data driven, and it's like, 1515 00:51:54,385 --> 00:51:55,985 we want to understand this data specifically, you 1516 00:51:55,985 --> 00:51:57,425 know, can you grab this and grab that? 1517 00:51:57,425 --> 00:51:57,925 And, 1518 00:51:58,465 --> 00:52:00,405 you know, if we're saying, okay. Can we 1519 00:52:01,425 --> 00:52:03,105 do something with this data or have to 1520 00:52:03,105 --> 00:52:04,724 code up, you know, 1521 00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:07,319 say it's a statistical test or whatever it 1522 00:52:07,319 --> 00:52:07,980 might be. 1523 00:52:08,359 --> 00:52:09,480 You want the student to be able to

1524 00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,000 understand the statistical test because they need to 1525 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:12,519 understand the ins and outs of it to 1526 00:52:12,519 --> 00:52:13,339 actually understand 1527 00:52:14,199 --> 00:52:16,219 how to interpret the data afterwards. 1528 00:52:16,519 --> 00:52:17,739 Right? So you need 1529 00:52:18,119 --> 00:52:20,059 a a a pretty good foundational stats knowledge. 1530 00:52:20,364 --> 00:52:21,644 And even twenty years ago, it's like, okay. 1531 00:52:21,644 --> 00:52:23,005 Well, we've coded it up in a Python 1532 00:52:23,005 --> 00:52:25,005 package. Just grab that and and run that 1533 00:52:25,005 --> 00:52:26,204 on your data kind of thing. Are you 1534 00:52:26,204 --> 00:52:28,144 actually understanding what it's doing? 1535 00:52:28,565 --> 00:52:29,065 The 1536 00:52:29,644 --> 00:52:30,765 you know, if you take it a step 1537 00:52:30,765 --> 00:52:33,325 further with AI generating that code for you, 1538 00:52:33,325 --> 00:52:36,179 then there there's an extra layer of, like, 1539 00:52:36,739 --> 00:52:38,420 has the AI actually done what you want 1540 00:52:38,420 --> 00:52:39,940 it to do, first of all? But then 1541 00:52:39,940 --> 00:52:42,260 also, yeah, again, are you understanding what's going 1542 00:52:42,260 --> 00:52:43,859 on under the hood to be able to 1543 00:52:43,859 --> 00:52:45,800 actually make that scientific interpretation? 1544 00:52:47,539 --> 00:52:49,460 So, yeah, it is something I worry about, 1545 00:52:49,460 --> 00:52:51,319 but at the same time, I think, well, 1546 00:52:51,375 --> 00:52:53,795 we've been here before, and we've adapted. 1547 00:52:54,175 --> 00:52:55,934 So Yeah. No. That's fair. I was just 1548 00:52:55,934 --> 00:52:57,695 thinking then, but I because I do a 1549 00:52:57,695 --> 00:52:58,594 lecture on, 1550 00:52:59,695 --> 00:53:02,414 practical uses of AI for science journalists. One 1551 00:53:02,414 --> 00:53:03,855 of the things I get the students to 1552 00:53:03,855 --> 00:53:04,494 do is to get 1553 00:53:06,079 --> 00:53:08,159 I give them each a paper and then 1554 00:53:08,159 --> 00:53:10,320 they choose an AI of their choice, generative 1555 00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:11,460 AI of their choice, 1556 00:53:12,159 --> 00:53:12,659 to 1557 00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:14,980 ask it to explain 1558 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,480 that paper as if to a 15 year 1559 00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:18,980 old. 1560 00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:20,960 So they get that and then they have 1561 00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:21,460 to 1562 00:53:22,295 --> 00:53:24,235 make a note of everything that it says, 1563 00:53:24,454 --> 00:53:26,695 and go back to the original paper, and 1564 00:53:26,695 --> 00:53:27,195 find 1565 00:53:27,894 --> 00:53:30,135 where what that AI says is in the 1566 00:53:30,135 --> 00:53:33,835 paper. And almost every single time, it's hallucinated 1567 00:53:34,055 --> 00:53:36,400 something that isn't in the paper. Is Well 1568 00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:38,800 yeah. Because it's just based on something that's 1569 00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:40,719 been written before. Right? So it's not just 1570 00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:42,480 pulling on the paper itself when you ask 1571 00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:44,000 a Jedi to do that. It's being pulled 1572 00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,159 on everything that's ever been written for a 1573 00:53:46,159 --> 00:53:47,460 15 year old on 1574 00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,539 that topic or physics. So 1575 00:53:50,175 --> 00:53:52,175 that's the thing with AI is that it 1576 00:53:52,175 --> 00:53:54,094 doesn't always do the things that you ask 1577 00:53:54,094 --> 00:53:54,594 it 1578 00:53:54,974 --> 00:53:56,894 to do. And that's the point of it, 1579 00:53:56,894 --> 00:53:58,894 right, is because it is just the computer 1580 00:53:58,894 --> 00:54:01,055 deciding what's what's relevant and things like that. 1581 00:54:01,055 --> 00:54:01,555 So 1582 00:54:02,059 --> 00:54:03,900 it's funny how I think far the conversation 1583 00:54:03,900 --> 00:54:05,739 has come with AI since I started my 1584 00:54:05,739 --> 00:54:08,559 PhD even just over 10 ago now. 1585 00:54:09,420 --> 00:54:11,760 So I was very involved in, the Zooniverse 1586 00:54:11,820 --> 00:54:12,300 project, 1587 00:54:12,699 --> 00:54:15,644 which is a project where you get citizen 1588 00:54:15,644 --> 00:54:18,385 scientists, so members of the public, to classify 1589 00:54:18,684 --> 00:54:19,664 scientific data, 1590 00:54:20,045 --> 00:54:22,125 huge datasets that we had no chance of 1591 00:54:22,125 --> 00:54:24,045 just going through ourselves. So it started with 1592 00:54:24,045 --> 00:54:26,125 Galaxy Zoo with a million images of galaxies 1593 00:54:26,125 --> 00:54:27,105 that needed classifying. 1594 00:54:27,900 --> 00:54:31,339 Project's still going because you need human classified 1595 00:54:31,339 --> 00:54:33,420 datasets to train AI. Now people are like, 1596 00:54:33,420 --> 00:54:34,639 isn't this a solved problem? 1597 00:54:35,019 --> 00:54:36,699 And, also, there's still some that AI can't 1598 00:54:36,699 --> 00:54:37,760 do and things like that. 1599 00:54:38,299 --> 00:54:40,400 But I remember sitting in a meeting 1600 00:54:40,859 --> 00:54:43,345 where, you know, we were pulling in all 1601 00:54:43,345 --> 00:54:44,244 the fields 1602 00:54:44,625 --> 00:54:47,345 of research. So all the scientists that you 1603 00:54:47,345 --> 00:54:49,105 know, not just the galaxies people where I 1604 00:54:49,105 --> 00:54:49,605 started, 1605 00:54:50,144 --> 00:54:52,305 but they also had this problem, like, people 1606 00:54:52,305 --> 00:54:54,144 who'd set up camera traps in Antarctica to 1607 00:54:54,144 --> 00:54:55,901 take pictures of penguins, and they wanted to 1608 00:54:55,901 --> 00:54:58,153 know how many penguins there were in an 1609 00:54:58,153 --> 00:55:00,406 image where I have never seen so many 1610 00:55:00,406 --> 00:55:03,222

penguins in my life. You know? To, people 1611 00:55:03,222 --> 00:55:05,756 in, zoology, for example, as well, where they'd 1612 00:55:05,756 --> 00:55:08,008 set up camera traps in the Serengeti, and 1613 00:55:08,008 --> 00:55:10,034 every time something moved, it took a picture. 1614 00:55:10,974 --> 00:55:12,255 So they ended up with a lot of 1615 00:55:12,255 --> 00:55:13,934 grass waving in the wind, but they also 1616 00:55:13,934 --> 00:55:16,574 ended up with antelopes and zebras and lions 1617 00:55:16,574 --> 00:55:17,715 and everything like that. 1618 00:55:19,375 --> 00:55:21,135 And there was someone from the computer science 1619 00:55:21,135 --> 00:55:22,494 department came in who was like, well, we 1620 00:55:22,494 --> 00:55:24,175 think we can help solve this problem of 1621 00:55:24,175 --> 00:55:24,914 of classification. 1622 00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:28,150 And they were like, but it you know, 1623 00:55:28,150 --> 00:55:28,730 we need 1624 00:55:29,349 --> 00:55:30,010 the human 1625 00:55:30,630 --> 00:55:32,630 classifications first because it was like, this is 1626 00:55:32,630 --> 00:55:34,630 where our AI model is, and it they 1627 00:55:34,630 --> 00:55:36,809 showed an image of a zebra walking through 1628 00:55:37,030 --> 00:55:38,250 a grassy field. 1629 00:55:38,655 --> 00:55:40,175 And it was like the AI thought there 1630 00:55:40,175 --> 00:55:41,954 was about 50 different antelopes 1631 00:55:42,255 --> 00:55:44,275 in the field as well as the sky. 1632 00:55:44,414 --> 00:55:46,894 You know? So it's just a clear blue 1633 00:55:46,894 --> 00:55:49,135 sky. So it's it's funny thinking back to 1634 00:55:49,135 --> 00:55:51,215 that meeting and thinking about where we are 1635 00:55:51,215 --> 00:55:53,659 now in terms of how fast the technology 1636 00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:54,699 has moved on. 1637 00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:57,719 Because in terms of, like, for example, galaxy 1638 00:55:57,719 --> 00:55:58,219 classifications, 1639 00:55:59,319 --> 00:56:01,239 you know, we were at sort of, like, 1640 00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:02,839 the 70% 1641 00:56:02,839 --> 00:56:03,339 level 1642 00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:05,574 back ten ten years ago where it was 1643 00:56:05,574 --> 00:56:07,655 like, yeah. AI can do maybe, like, 70% 1644 00:56:07,655 --> 00:56:09,894 of them, but that's only if we take 1645 00:56:09,894 --> 00:56:12,795 the human classifications we already have and 1646 00:56:13,335 --> 00:56:15,655 make the images so that, actually, the same 1647 00:56:15,655 --> 00:56:17,815 classification can be used on four different images 1648 00:56:17,815 --> 00:56:19,114 because we've just rotationally 1649 00:56:19,710 --> 00:56:22,109 flipped the image, so it's technically different four 1650 00:56:22,109 --> 00:56:22,609 different 1651 00:56:23,150 --> 00:56:25,070 ways. Whereas now, the AI is at the 1652 00:56:25,070 --> 00:56:26,349 sort of 99% 1653 00:56:26,349 --> 00:56:28,269 level, and it's only the 1% level we're 1654 00:56:28,269 --> 00:56:29,730 still asking people about. 1655 00:56:30,349 --> 00:56:31,789 And we also have sort of, like, from 1656 00:56:31,789 --> 00:56:33,710 the AI, we have, like, a confidence score. 1657 00:56:33,710 --> 00:56:35,054 So So it can be like, I am 1658 00:56:35,054 --> 00:56:37,695 confident in this classification to this amount. And 1659 00:56:37,695 --> 00:56:39,534 if it's not passing a certain threshold, we 1660 00:56:39,534 --> 00:56:40,974 can still show it to people as well 1661 00:56:40,974 --> 00:56:42,195 just to double check it. 1662 00:56:42,574 --> 00:56:44,894 So it's just yeah. In ten years, the 1663 00:56:44,894 --> 00:56:46,655 the technology in terms of how it can 1664 00:56:46,655 --> 00:56:48,574 be applied to the research side of things 1665 00:56:48,574 --> 00:56:49,869 is just absolutely 1666 00:56:50,329 --> 00:56:52,090 shot up. But there are a lot of 1667 00:56:52,090 --> 00:56:54,010 black boxes as well. And it's fun to 1668 00:56:54,010 --> 00:56:55,530 see how people are going, oh, okay. You 1669 00:56:55,530 --> 00:56:57,769 know, Google have developed this tool, and it's 1670 00:56:57,769 --> 00:57:00,489 a black box. But can I then apply 1671 00:57:00,489 --> 00:57:02,250 it over here? And how does that compare 1672 00:57:02,250 --> 00:57:04,784 with something that's been specifically written as an 1673 00:57:04,784 --> 00:57:06,804 AI tool by an astronomer, by an astrophysicist 1674 00:57:06,944 --> 00:57:07,684 who knows 1675 00:57:08,065 --> 00:57:10,144 what it specific science case it will be 1676 00:57:10,144 --> 00:57:10,885 used for. 1677 00:57:11,344 --> 00:57:12,724 And it's interesting to compare 1678 00:57:13,344 --> 00:57:15,425 the different answers that you get. So that's 1679 00:57:15,425 --> 00:57:18,224 a slight detail from the main topic of 1680 00:57:18,224 --> 00:57:20,119 this podcast, which is, of course, Project Hail 1681 00:57:20,119 --> 00:57:22,039 Mary. We'll get back to that very shortly 1682 00:57:22,039 --> 00:57:24,119 with Andy Weir. But if you get two 1683 00:57:24,119 --> 00:57:26,840 academics talking to each other, then these things 1684 00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:28,680 do tend to happen. And in case you're 1685 00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,160 interested, I teach on the master's in science 1686 00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:31,660 communication 1687 00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,505 at UE Bristol. It's been going for about 1688 00:57:34,505 --> 00:57:36,184 fifteen years, and we do all sorts of 1689 00:57:36,184 --> 00:57:37,885 things, including writing, 1690 00:57:38,505 --> 00:57:39,005 podcasting, 1691 00:57:39,305 --> 00:57:41,085 of course, radio, TV, 1692 00:57:41,625 --> 00:57:44,505 and, filmmaking, wildlife filmmaking, all that sort of 1693 00:57:44,505 --> 00:57:47,545 thing on the course. But let's return to 1694 00:57:47,545 --> 00:57:50,320 Andy Weir, and I asked him about the 1695 00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:51,940 character of Rylan Grace. 1696

00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,359 Is it somebody who is based on him? 1697 00:57:55,359 --> 00:57:56,799 So I'm always trying to get better as 1698 00:57:56,799 --> 00:57:58,800 a writer. And my biggest weakness in my 1699 00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:02,000 opinion is characters. Character depth, growth, story arcs, 1700 00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:04,704 character arcs, and so on. Like, in The 1701 00:58:04,704 --> 00:58:07,425 Martian, there is no character depth or growth 1702 00:58:07,425 --> 00:58:09,184 at all. Like, no one would accuse The 1703 00:58:09,184 --> 00:58:10,324 Martian of being literature. 1704 00:58:11,425 --> 00:58:13,824 Mark Watney has the exact same personality at 1705 00:58:13,824 --> 00:58:14,944 the end of the book as he did 1706 00:58:14,944 --> 00:58:15,684 at the beginning. 1707 00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:17,539 He undergoes no change 1708 00:58:18,079 --> 00:58:18,820 at all. 1709 00:58:19,119 --> 00:58:21,119 And you don't really know anything about Mark 1710 00:58:21,119 --> 00:58:22,559 by the time you finish the book other 1711 00:58:22,559 --> 00:58:24,500 than he's a guy who didn't wanna die. 1712 00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:25,300 Okay. 1713 00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:27,119 And, you know, he's got sort of a 1714 00:58:27,119 --> 00:58:30,255 quirky personality, but that's that's it. Okay. So 1715 00:58:30,255 --> 00:58:32,174 for Artemis, I said, like, alright. I'm gonna 1716 00:58:32,174 --> 00:58:33,694 make a care and Mark is, of course, 1717 00:58:33,694 --> 00:58:35,295 based on my own personality. As you can 1718 00:58:35,295 --> 00:58:36,434 tell, I'm a smart ass. 1719 00:58:36,734 --> 00:58:38,894 And but he's he's all the aspects that 1720 00:58:38,894 --> 00:58:40,734 I have in my own personality that I 1721 00:58:40,734 --> 00:58:42,755 like and none of my many, many flaws. 1722 00:58:42,969 --> 00:58:43,789 So he's just 1723 00:58:44,329 --> 00:58:46,010 the the idealized version of me, what I 1724 00:58:46,010 --> 00:58:47,070 wish I could be. 1725 00:58:47,369 --> 00:58:49,690 Jazz in Artemis was also based on me, 1726 00:58:49,690 --> 00:58:52,010 but she's got all my flaws. I said, 1727 00:58:52,010 --> 00:58:53,690 like, I'm gonna make a deeper, more nuanced, 1728 00:58:53,690 --> 00:58:56,170 and interesting character. Jazz is young. She's, like, 1729 00:58:56,170 --> 00:58:56,989 26. 1730 00:58:57,094 --> 00:58:58,534 And so I said, like, I'm gonna give 1731 00:58:58,534 --> 00:58:59,974 her all the flaws I had when I 1732 00:58:59,974 --> 00:59:02,135 was her age. Like, I was a screw 1733 00:59:02,135 --> 00:59:04,775 up. I was ostensibly intelligent, but kept making 1734 00:59:04,775 --> 00:59:06,875 bad life decisions and that sort of thing. 1735 00:59:06,934 --> 00:59:08,934 And people were always disappointed in me because 1736 00:59:08,934 --> 00:59:10,375 they're like, you could be doing so much 1737 00:59:10,375 --> 00:59:12,730 better, you dipshit. Anyway, so, 1738 00:59:13,529 --> 00:59:15,449 It's alright now. What's that? Yeah. I'm doing 1739 00:59:15,449 --> 00:59:16,589 okay now. But 1740 00:59:16,969 --> 00:59:18,569 if you met me when I was 26, 1741 00:59:18,569 --> 00:59:19,309 you'd be like, 1742 00:59:19,690 --> 00:59:20,190 dude, 1743 00:59:21,609 --> 00:59:24,250 please Are you not? Like, get better at 1744 00:59:24,250 --> 00:59:25,389 life. But, 1745 00:59:27,125 --> 00:59:29,525 so I gave her my flaws. And, 1746 00:59:29,844 --> 00:59:30,885 what I found out is that, 1747 00:59:31,525 --> 00:59:34,244 my the the flawed and more realistic version 1748 00:59:34,244 --> 00:59:36,484 of me is not a character people have 1749 00:59:36,484 --> 00:59:38,900 a easy time rooting for because she was 1750 00:59:38,900 --> 00:59:41,460 such the architect of her own problems. People 1751 00:59:41,460 --> 00:59:42,599 had a tough time, 1752 00:59:43,059 --> 00:59:45,220 like, rooting for her. And so, you know, 1753 00:59:45,220 --> 00:59:46,579 I I said, like, okay. I went too 1754 00:59:46,579 --> 00:59:48,599 far. I made her too flawed. Okay. 1755 00:59:48,980 --> 00:59:51,059 Alright. Now for Ryland, I decided I wanna 1756 00:59:51,059 --> 00:59:51,764 grow more. 1757 00:59:52,244 --> 00:59:53,924 So for Ryland, I said, I'm not gonna 1758 00:59:53,924 --> 00:59:56,885 base him on me. I'm gonna just make 1759 00:59:56,885 --> 00:59:58,964 a character that is not me, not based 1760 00:59:58,964 --> 01:00:00,424 on any part of my personality. 1761 01:00:00,724 --> 01:00:02,484 He's still humor. I mean, there's no way 1762 01:00:02,484 --> 01:00:04,244 to keep your own personality out of your 1763 01:00:04,244 --> 01:00:06,380 characters at least a little bit, but he's 1764 01:00:06,380 --> 01:00:08,400 still kind of funny. But 1765 01:00:09,019 --> 01:00:10,860 I started him off kinda blank without having 1766 01:00:10,860 --> 01:00:12,860 much personality at all and just started writing. 1767 01:00:12,860 --> 01:00:15,500 And as the story progressed, his personality started 1768 01:00:15,500 --> 01:00:16,559 to develop naturally. 1769 01:00:16,860 --> 01:00:19,180 And then I went back and rewrote the 1770 01:00:19,180 --> 01:00:21,260 early chapters to match the personality that had 1771 01:00:21,260 --> 01:00:23,614 developed. So for the reader, it's a consistent, 1772 01:00:24,074 --> 01:00:25,595 you know, personality. But for me, it was 1773 01:00:25,595 --> 01:00:27,275 a lot of work to just slowly kinda 1774 01:00:27,275 --> 01:00:29,755 see how that developed and kinda scary too. 1775 01:00:29,755 --> 01:00:31,114 Because I'm the sort of guy who likes 1776 01:00:31,114 --> 01:00:32,554 to sit down and have everything set up 1777 01:00:32,554 --> 01:00:34,074 on a spreadsheet, and I kinda know what's 1778 01:00:34,074 --> 01:00:36,269 going on. So to just jump into the 1779 01:00:36,269 --> 01:00:37,869 void and start writing and hope that the 1780 01:00:37,869 --> 01:00:40,030 character comes out well. If you have seen 1781

01:00:40,030 --> 01:00:41,710 the film, if you haven't seen the film, 1782 01:00:41,710 --> 01:00:44,349 either way, I highly recommend you go and 1783 01:00:44,349 --> 01:00:46,110 find a copy of the book and read 1784 01:00:46,110 --> 01:00:48,135 it in whatever format you prefer. But 1785 01:00:49,155 --> 01:00:51,555 if you have read the book and you've 1786 01:00:51,555 --> 01:00:53,315 seen the film, of course, you can go 1787 01:00:53,315 --> 01:00:53,974 back and 1788 01:00:54,675 --> 01:00:57,075 experience them both again. But I wondered if 1789 01:00:57,075 --> 01:01:00,215 doctor Becky had some suggestions for space related 1790 01:01:00,434 --> 01:01:02,055 science fiction for us. 1791 01:01:02,570 --> 01:01:04,889 I love Becky Chambers' books. So I I 1792 01:01:04,889 --> 01:01:06,250 particularly loved A Long Way to a Small 1793 01:01:06,250 --> 01:01:07,769 Angry Planet. I thought that was great. And 1794 01:01:07,769 --> 01:01:09,929 there is also a very short novel that 1795 01:01:09,929 --> 01:01:11,949 she wrote called To Be Taught If Fortunate, 1796 01:01:12,489 --> 01:01:13,789 which is, again, about 1797 01:01:14,534 --> 01:01:15,514 sort of, like, astronauts 1798 01:01:15,894 --> 01:01:17,815 in space that have been sent very far 1799 01:01:17,815 --> 01:01:19,734 away from Earth. But it's more about the 1800 01:01:19,734 --> 01:01:22,155 psychology of what that does to a human. 1801 01:01:22,295 --> 01:01:24,155 So I found that a really interesting read. 1802 01:01:26,054 --> 01:01:28,054 In terms of the the more fantasy side 1803 01:01:28,054 --> 01:01:28,980 of sci fi, 1804 01:01:29,780 --> 01:01:31,619 I love the Red Rising novels by Pierce 1805 01:01:31,619 --> 01:01:34,260 Brown. I thought that was very interesting sort 1806 01:01:34,260 --> 01:01:36,119 of in terms of a it's like, 1807 01:01:37,059 --> 01:01:39,159 humanity spread across the solar system. 1808 01:01:39,940 --> 01:01:41,859 What does that do in terms of the 1809 01:01:41,859 --> 01:01:44,885 politics and economics and everything of of that 1810 01:01:45,265 --> 01:01:45,844 whole world? 1811 01:01:46,945 --> 01:01:49,265 Complete disbelief on the science because there's people 1812 01:01:49,265 --> 01:01:50,945 living on, like, moons of Jupiter and things 1813 01:01:50,945 --> 01:01:52,304 like that. And you're like, okay. Well, they 1814 01:01:52,304 --> 01:01:54,144 figured that out, I guess, like habitability, but 1815 01:01:54,144 --> 01:01:54,644 whatever. 1816 01:01:57,260 --> 01:01:58,699 That's just all glossed over. You know, it's 1817 01:01:58,699 --> 01:02:00,380 not very science heavy because it's sci it's 1818 01:02:00,380 --> 01:02:02,239 more of the fantasy side of sci fi. 1819 01:02:03,739 --> 01:02:04,800 In terms of films, 1820 01:02:06,059 --> 01:02:07,900 I always have to just turn off my 1821 01:02:07,900 --> 01:02:08,960 brain when I watch 1822 01:02:09,420 --> 01:02:11,019 a a film most of the time, unless 1823 01:02:11,019 -->

01:02:12,000 I'm doing a 1824 01:02:12,385 --> 01:02:13,985 let's react to this so that we can 1825 01:02:13,985 --> 01:02:15,905 use this as my Trojan horse of science 1826 01:02:15,905 --> 01:02:16,405 education. 1827 01:02:16,864 --> 01:02:18,545 You think you're you think you're watching a 1828 01:02:18,545 --> 01:02:19,985 a fun react video on a film, but 1829 01:02:19,985 --> 01:02:21,765 you're actually gonna get hit with science. 1830 01:02:23,184 --> 01:02:24,005 So weirdly 1831 01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:26,260 weirdly, 1832 01:02:27,199 --> 01:02:28,340 some of my favorite 1833 01:02:29,039 --> 01:02:30,320 sci fi films are the ones you have 1834 01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,820 to dis like, suspend your disbelief the most 1835 01:02:33,199 --> 01:02:35,039 because I think I I can do it 1836 01:02:35,039 --> 01:02:36,480 more. I think that's why I didn't like 1837 01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:37,920 Interstellar was because they were like, it's the 1838 01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:40,765 most scientifically accurate film. And I went in 1839 01:02:41,025 --> 01:02:44,105 like, right. Well, you know, every time there 1840 01:02:44,105 --> 01:02:46,285 wasn't something scientifically accurate, I was like, 1841 01:02:47,704 --> 01:02:49,224 you know, like they needed a Saturn five 1842 01:02:49,224 --> 01:02:50,505 rocket to get off Earth, but all the 1843 01:02:50,505 --> 01:02:51,864 other planets, they just went off in their 1844 01:02:51,864 --> 01:02:53,005 little spacecraft like, 1845 01:02:55,489 --> 01:02:56,630 what point? You know? 1846 01:02:58,369 --> 01:03:00,210 So I think, weirdly, some of my favorites 1847 01:03:00,210 --> 01:03:01,969 are, like, the classics of, like, Deep Impact 1848 01:03:01,969 --> 01:03:03,889 and Armageddon that came out within, like, a 1849 01:03:03,889 --> 01:03:05,409 year of each other, and I watched when 1850 01:03:05,409 --> 01:03:06,849 I was, like, 10, and I was just, 1851 01:03:06,849 --> 01:03:07,155 like, 1852 01:03:07,715 --> 01:03:09,655 these are the best films ever. 1853 01:03:10,434 --> 01:03:11,094 You know? 1854 01:03:12,755 --> 01:03:15,074 I also really enjoyed, weirdly, Don't Look Up 1855 01:03:15,074 --> 01:03:16,135 that came out recently, 1856 01:03:16,914 --> 01:03:18,434 which is a film about yeah. Again, like, 1857 01:03:18,434 --> 01:03:20,114 an apparently, I like asteroid films, 1858 01:03:20,515 --> 01:03:21,875 which is a film about, like, a comet 1859 01:03:21,875 --> 01:03:24,089 that's gonna impact with Earth that's discovered, but 1860 01:03:24,089 --> 01:03:26,409 instead of the classic sort of scientists and 1861 01:03:26,409 --> 01:03:29,529 the world bands together, and America saves us, 1862 01:03:29,529 --> 01:03:31,369 usually, it's how it goes in the Hollywood 1863 01:03:31,369 --> 01:03:32,109 films. Right? 1864 01:03:32,730 --> 01:03:34,969 It's very much like a they just sort 1865 01:03:34,969 --> 01:03:36,109 of ignore the problem, 1866 01:03:36,614 --> 01:03:38,295 and they think, oh, actually, how can we 1867 01:03:38,295 --> 01:03:40,135 make money from this problem and things like 1868 01:03:40,135 --> 01:03:41,414 that. And you think it it's a very, 1869 01:03:41,414 --> 01:03:43,655 like it's probably the exact opposite sort of 1870 01:03:43,655 --> 01:03:45,414 message of Project Hail Mary. Right? It's that 1871 01:03:45,414 --> 01:03:47,434 humanity wouldn't band together and 1872 01:03:47,815 --> 01:03:49,094 it wouldn't save it. And it's a very 1873 01:03:49,094 --> 01:03:50,074 interesting commentary. 1874 01:03:50,420 --> 01:03:51,539 It's less of a sci fi film, I 1875 01:03:51,539 --> 01:03:52,820 guess, and more of a commentary on the 1876 01:03:52,820 --> 01:03:54,820 world as it is today, but it's also 1877 01:03:54,820 --> 01:03:55,400 very funny 1878 01:03:55,700 --> 01:03:56,680 at the same time. 1879 01:03:57,380 --> 01:03:58,760 The dark humor, I guess. 1880 01:03:59,300 --> 01:04:00,820 More of a Star Wars than a Star 1881 01:04:00,820 --> 01:04:02,260 Trek person, which I know makes a lot 1882 01:04:02,260 --> 01:04:03,559 of my colleagues very disappointed. 1883 01:04:03,860 --> 01:04:05,559 That's interesting. Why is that? 1884 01:04:06,065 --> 01:04:07,825 Like, I just I love fantasy, though. And 1885 01:04:07,825 --> 01:04:09,425 I think because I can I like, if 1886 01:04:09,425 --> 01:04:11,345 I if I'm reading, I'm probably more more 1887 01:04:11,345 --> 01:04:13,105 likely reading fantasy than I am sci fi? 1888 01:04:13,105 --> 01:04:15,285 Again, just because of the suspension of disbelief, 1889 01:04:15,425 --> 01:04:16,885 it's just easier. 1890 01:04:17,985 --> 01:04:19,420 It's more of an escape. I think. You 1891 01:04:19,420 --> 01:04:21,820 know? Like, as much as I absolutely love 1892 01:04:21,820 --> 01:04:24,000 my job, like, sci fi is still 1893 01:04:25,019 --> 01:04:25,519 adjacent 1894 01:04:26,059 --> 01:04:28,380 to it. And so it doesn't always feel 1895 01:04:28,380 --> 01:04:29,760 like a full switch off 1896 01:04:30,140 --> 01:04:32,574 in comparison to fantasy. No. That's fair. 1897 01:04:32,875 --> 01:04:35,534 But you're very excited about Project Hail Mary. 1898 01:04:35,835 --> 01:04:37,855 Why why then? Yeah. And I think 1899 01:04:39,275 --> 01:04:40,574 I think it just it 1900 01:04:41,594 --> 01:04:43,275 when I listened to it, I was in 1901 01:04:43,275 --> 01:04:45,295 a a really nice frame of mind 1902 01:04:47,170 --> 01:04:48,390 that I could 1903 01:04:49,010 --> 01:04:51,110 sort of enjoy it for what it was. 1904 01:04:51,730 --> 01:04:53,329 And I went in knowing that it was 1905 01:04:53,329 --> 01:04:55,170 going to be work adjacent, and it's become 1906 01:04:55,170 --> 01:04:56,849 very work adjacent in the fact that, yeah, 1907 01:04:56,849 --> 01:04:59,090 I've, you know, made science communication about it 1908 01:04:59,090 --> 01:05:00,914 and stuff. So in the same way that 1909 01:05:00,914 --> 01:05:01,974 I can be very joyful 1910 01:05:02,434 --> 01:05:02,934 about 1911 01:05:03,474 --> 01:05:05,474 work and everything like that, you you still 1912 01:05:05,474 --> 01:05:07,555 have joy for it. But if I'm if 1913 01:05:07,555 --> 01:05:09,954 I'm fully wanting to to switch off and 1914 01:05:09,954 --> 01:05:11,075 relax like I said, I put it on 1915 01:05:11,075 --> 01:05:12,434 because I was doing jobs. Right? I was 1916 01:05:12,434 --> 01:05:15,009 literally around the house, like, you know, cleaning 1917 01:05:15,009 --> 01:05:16,609 or something, and I thought I'll put this 1918 01:05:16,609 --> 01:05:19,089 audiobook on. So I wasn't, like, putting something 1919 01:05:19,089 --> 01:05:21,730 on to fully switch off from, you know, 1920 01:05:21,730 --> 01:05:23,989 everything. Like, you know, I wasn't, like, 1921 01:05:24,529 --> 01:05:26,289 being, like, oh, I need something that I 1922 01:05:26,289 --> 01:05:27,569 can just kill up and read by the 1923 01:05:27,569 --> 01:05:29,109 fire on holiday. You know? 1924 01:05:29,765 --> 01:05:32,025 That would be a fantasy novel I'd like 1925 01:05:36,565 --> 01:05:38,644 to thank doctor Becky and Andy Weir for 1926 01:05:38,644 --> 01:05:40,405 joining me for this episode of the Physics 1927 01:05:40,405 --> 01:05:42,885 World Stories podcast. Of course, you will find 1928 01:05:42,885 --> 01:05:45,659 links to everything we've talked about on the 1929 01:05:45,739 --> 01:05:48,000 Physics World website physicsworld.com. 1930 01:05:48,139 --> 01:05:50,380 We'll be back next month with something else 1931 01:05:50,380 --> 01:05:52,780 from this wonderful world of physics. I think 1932 01:05:52,780 --> 01:05:55,440 I'll leave the last word to Rocky. 1933 01:05:57,019 --> 01:05:59,039 It is time go.