Full Transcript for Redefining Wealth & Optionality for Physicians with Guest Dr. David Phelps Video Podcast

dentists, uh there's you know, accountants, engineers. 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:21.680 Uh people had a knack for science and math, and and that's all fine and good. 00:05:21.839 --> 00:05:26.079 And my and so I took that path and and found dentistry to be uh a great path. 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:33.759 I didn't want to I didn't want to have all the uh long hours uh and the after after hours calls my father had, so I thought dentistry, uh, that's a little bit better lifestyle. 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:38.160 So to our physician friends, I appreciate all of you that put a hard, hard long hours you put in. 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:41.040 Uh dentistry is a little bit more calm from that standpoint. 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:48.639 But while I was in school, Kevin, I I still had this knack for wanting to understand, I'll put it this way, how does money work? 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:52.879 I I knew what the word investment and investor meant, you know, in a macro term. 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:57.439 Uh and I watched my father, you know, make quote investments over the years. 00:05:57.519 --> 00:05:59.360 Uh, you know, some worked out, some didn't. 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:10.800 And I remember just being old enough to hear him not complain or whine, uh, but to see a smart man, intelligent man, a hard worker, uh trying to figure out how to be a good, you know, astute investor. 00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:14.879 Uh, and and and I always thought, well, how can I learn how to do that? 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:18.160 And not to better my father, but just how could I learn more about that? 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:25.600 So in in college, I was reading books uh outside of the required uh academia uh on on investments. 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:27.759 Uh and and I so I had a real curiosity. 00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:34.079 I think it's the first thing I started with, is just a curiosity about life and making one's money work for them, even though I had no money at that point in time. 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:35.680 I had student loans like everybody. 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:37.279 Uh but I'm thinking ahead. 00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:44.319 And that's what got me started early, even before I uh graduated dental school, into uh acquiring some assets. 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:49.360 Now, I'm not gonna make it make this about my story and what assets that's that's besides, but I had a plan. 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:50.079 I had discipline. 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:51.040 I think that's the key thing. 00:06:51.120 --> 00:07:06.399 I had a plan early, discipline, and I modulated my lifestyle as my income grew as a dentist, which which happens to all of us if we work hard enough and we're proficient and efficient in the work that we do, the skills that we have, that our income is going to increase. 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:10.079 And most of the time, also, so the lifestyle increases also. 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:12.480 I'm not against elevating one's lifestyle. 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:15.600 I think there is

a position to do that, but I modulated mine. 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:21.439 And fortunately, my wife, which is another key factor in one's uh one's financial future, is marrying the right person. 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:24.000 Uh, she went along with it to a point, of course. 00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:27.600 I I couldn't I couldn't hold back on everything I wanted to because I'm very frugal. 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:36.399 But the point is, I started building some assets, some investments outside of the practice early on, and I kept that discipline going. 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:42.079 I I didn't uh you know go for the the bigger and the bigger house and and more cars or a bunch of fancy stuff. 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:44.319 I just decided I wanted to compound. 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:50.160 I learned what compounding was compound early, allow time to build, uh, hit some inflection points. 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:51.680 Uh I didn't know when that would happen. 00:07:51.759 --> 00:08:10.879 I wasn't um uh proficient enough to understand uh all all the things that that that you you you do and teach today, but I knew enough about discipline and saving and and being the best investor I could that that would lead me towards, again, the word I used today, optionality, and that came to play in a big way, not forecasted by me, but when I was about 20 years into practice. 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:18.959 So I was still still I was really in in mid-career, uh, probably the the high point of one's earning capacity in in my mid-40s. 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:32.160 And our daughter, my daughter, uh, who had already gone through and and had had had overcome high-risk leukemia at a very young age, uh, two and a half to five, uh then epileptic seizures. 00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:38.720 Well, at age 12, and this was uh 22, not 22 years ago, she was in end-stage liver failure. 00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:43.200 Um so this was like the trifecta of of a young child's health crisis. 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:44.720 And that was the point. 00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:56.079 Uh so I'm in my mid-40s, she's 12, and I'm in the hospital with her and her mom, and it's very traumatic, of course, uh, and she's got the opportunity to have a life-saving liver transplant. 00:08:56.160 --> 00:08:59.120 So, you know, fingers crossed, prayers to God, will this work? 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:01.839 But it was it was a it was a stronger message to me. 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:05.200 And that message was okay, things talking to myself. 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:07.279 All right, David, you've done all the right things. 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:15.360 You know, you've worked really hard, you've you've built a good practice, uh, you know, you've managed your lifestyle, you provide security for your family, all the things that, you know, check the boxes. 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:23.200 But the one thing I didn't have was enough optionality and time where I really felt like, how many more chances do I get to be a father, a dad? 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:35.440 Uh, you know, we we we typically think, Kevin, that at some point when I get all these things right, when I have enough income and I feel like I've got the big enough moat, well, then I'll breathe a little bit, then I'll enjoy life and I'll spend time with my family. 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:38.399 The wake-up call for me was, I may not have any more time. 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:40.799 She's 12 years old, and this could be it. 00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:42.960 I wasn't being morbid about it, but this could be it. 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:51.840 And so I decided right then and there to make an assessment of what I had in terms of assets that were not dependent upon me. 00:09:52.000 --> 00:10:02.159 And would those assets, if I converted them to produce some some amount of replacement income, would I have enough to step away from my dental practice back when I was in my mid-40s? 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:03.759 Not thinking I would leave it forever. 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:06.399 That wasn't the plan, but enough optionality to do that. 00:10:06.559 --> 00:10:13.840 And when I did my back of the napkin uh paperwork, financial, financial calculations, I was good enough. 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:20.559 So the practice, take that that capital, put it back into what I what I knew how to do, and then buy some time. 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:22.960 Buy some time so I could focus on my daughter. 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:28.799 And then that turned into giving me more margin to think more about what I want to do in my life. 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:34.240 And out of that, very organically, very organically, it wasn't a vision on my vision board at all. 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:38.080 Uh, Freedom Founders began about 16 years ago. 00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:41.679 And we can talk more about that, but that really became my purpose and my passion today. 00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:50.240 Uh, a lot of what you do is just trying to help colleagues who are blessed to have high incomes, uh, but don't have the optionality that I think they really want in life. 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:51.600 And where where's that missing? 00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:52.799 Where's the gap? 00:10:53.519 --> 00:11:06.799 Yeah, we also call it living by choice, working by choice, knowing that, hey, at any moment you would have that choice to do what you're talking about, uh, but just living by choice is nothing like that kind of freedom. 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:14.480 You say that most dentists don't have like a plan B, and that the cruelest fate is to possess wealth without freedom. 00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:23.360 That really struck me and it stuck out to me because one thing that we talk about here on the podcast is try to help them build wealth both inside and out of their practice. 00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:30.159 And talk to us about that, about what the cruelest fate is to possess wealth without freedom. 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:35.120 Yeah, I I think you know, people define you know wealth by

different definitions. 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:36.720 I'm sure you've heard plenty of things. 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:41.600 And and but but I believe wealth without having freedom or optionality is not wealth. 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:51.679 Uh, you you could look good on paper, uh, you again you could support uh a great family lifestyle, security, all the things that society deems as being like well done and respectful. 00:11:51.919 --> 00:12:05.200 But again, if you don't, if if you are if you are chained uh by what I would call the golden handcuffs, again, hard work to get there, blessed to do the work that that all of our colleagues do, not taken away from that at all. 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:14.480 But if you're chained to that to keep up your lifestyle, to keep up the security that you want for your family, if it's all or primarily dependent upon you, you have no freedom. 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:18.240 So for me, wealth is not it's not only about accumulation. 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:33.519 Yes, you've got to be disciplined and accumulate, but it's uh it's having the ability to keep uh those assets, keep that capital, uh, keep it, deploy it, and be able to transfer it without being forced to make decisions that you didn't choose. 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:34.639 That's optionality. 00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:42.159 And again, I think I think too many hardworking professionals just have the eye on a on a metric that doesn't provide them real freedom. 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:43.600 It's a metric that someone gave them. 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:56.320 It's like, well, you if you have a net worth of XX amount, or if you can get XYZ returns on your capital, or uh what just metrics that, again, have no predictability uh in in the marketplace. 00:12:56.559 --> 00:13:16.720 And when you redesign your life around time freedom, optionality, and make everything fit around that, that's where I think you you you you have the the opportunity to live your life fully and not feel like uh you're just you know chained down to something, a treadmill, like a treadmill that as long as you can keep up with it, okay, you produce, you produce. 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:26.399 But the the real problem, and I know you you see it all the time, is is when when your clients come to you and say, Hey, Kevin, you know, you know, I I'm I'm getting a little tired of this, I'm getting kind of burned out. 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:28.159 I'd like to see what what the exit looks like. 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:30.559 And and that's sometimes when you have the real discussions, right? 00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:34.879 I mean, that's where that's where where now they're they're they're serious about wanting to look at it. 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:41.039 And if you know, if they've been disciplined enough and the lifestyle hasn't expanded too much, then there's probably a way out. 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:53.360 But my point is, and I know you know this as well, if you start early in life and develop the discipline and the habits uh that build optionality in your life from the early days, not waiting to someday in the future, then you can have that optionality all the way along the line. 00:13:53.440 --> 00:13:55.120 And it's not about retirement then. 00:13:55.279 --> 00:14:06.720 It's it's about it's about choosing, as you said, choosing to work, choosing to stay in the game uh in a model that gives you more longevity and not the grind that too many people put up with for too long. 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:08.159 Oh man. 00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:11.919 Okay, doctors, if you're listening to this, I hope you're getting fired up. 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:13.600 Everything about what Dr. 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:21.120 Phelps just said, I'd love to put that on repeat and have you say it again, but you can do this at your own time as we give you and deliver this podcast. 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:25.840 Uh, there's moments to breathe when you get to that point, right? 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:32.000 I mean, you can just sit back and say, wow, redesign your life, redesign your time and how you want to spend it. 00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:35.279 Because at some point, you're gonna trade back your money for time. 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:38.879 And that is the the critical point of but what do you want to do? 00:14:39.039 --> 00:14:40.399 How do you want to do that? 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:48.159 Um, I'm kind of structuring this podcast to kind of go wide, and then we're gonna go a little deep and go narrow with it. 00:14:48.480 --> 00:15:04.960 But so much of what you've seen since you've started Freedom Founders and all of the things that has led you up to today, what do you see now today that maybe other dentists are not seeing or they might be missing after everything that you've seen already? 00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:06.399 Is there anything different? 00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:08.159 Yeah, a couple of things, Kevin. 00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:23.039 I would say uh, you know, going back to what we've we've we've already discussed to some degree, it's it's an over overfocus or over-dependency upon the income that the doctor, the primary producer, uh creates, produces through active active trading time for dollars. 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:26.080 Too much dependency on that for too way far too long. 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:27.360 So that's number one. 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:43.200 Secondly, is what I find in in my work with in Freedom Founders is we're blessed to be able to really engage with with our primary members, our our doctors, be they male or female, uh, but with as couples, uh so as as as family partnerships. 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:58.960 Um and and for and for the first time, we are able to facilitate their discussions amongst each other in ways that they probably couples haven't had since they first were uh courting, dating, got engaged and got married, and had this great vision for life. 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:03.519 You know we're all excited about that when we get

married and we have these great visions for life, and then we get into it, right? 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:13.039 And we start having families and we start building the income and and and there's there's little time or or opportunity, or we don't make the opportunity, I would say it's priorities, uh, to have those conversations. 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:14.080 I I know I didn't. 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:15.279 I I didn't either. 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:24.799 Uh so having a chance, as you said, to allow people to reassess what I call what are negotiables and non-negotiables in life. 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:31.440 And if we can focus, get couples to really be real and raw and and and transparent about that. 00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:33.679 What are the the absolute things in your life? 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:39.840 It could be material things, could be um, could be values uh in life, but list those things. 00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:44.399 There's not gonna be a long list of pages and pages, it should be a relatively short list of what are your non-negotiables? 00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:48.720 What are you absolutely not gonna give up or sacrifice for all the freedom and optionality in the world? 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.720 Okay, now we have that list, now that means everything else is negotiable, right? 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:55.919 So now we can start saying, okay, now what's important to you? 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:57.200 What do you really want in life? 00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:08.559 And that's where if we can get people to really talk about that and feel safe about talking about it, um, that's where the real emotions come out, and that's where people start to say, I don't mean with with pure with a bunch of regrets. 00:17:08.639 --> 00:17:15.920 I mean, there's always gonna be some regrets, but the the fact is, if you do this early enough in life, you don't have to live your life with regrets. 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:18.960 We all have things we've done in the past and go, well, that was not the greatest decision. 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:20.159 I didn't make the greatest thing there. 00:17:20.320 --> 00:17:22.720 Okay, put that aside and say, what can I do going forward? 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:29.840 And when you get couples that are having these discussions real time, then they can get real about okay, what do you really want? 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:31.200 And what's really important to you? 00:17:31.360 --> 00:17:37.679 And now you can start to look at well, lifestyle uh and trade-offs with building that optionality and what that might look like. 00:17:37.840 --> 00:17:45.920 And that that to me is a game changer, and it's a little bit of what I spoke about a few minutes ago, my own personal uh realization of what was important to me. 00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:46.559 That was time. 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:47.920 That was time back in my 40s. 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:48.639 I wanted more time. 00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:50.000 I didn't need a talk mall. 00:17:50.240 -->

00:17:52.559 I didn't need I didn't need more money, I needed time. 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:58.799 And that time allowed me to actually expand everything that today I find to be good in my life. 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:05.279 But without without that call to action, without that what I call my moment of truth with my daughter in the hospital, no telling. 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:10.000 I'd probably still be plugging away, um, successful like everybody else, but maybe not have had the opportunities I had. 00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:11.839 So it was a blessing and a curse for me. 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:18.960 And and I I don't want to I don't want to short shorten the story here, but my daughter made it through all that, and she'll be 34 years old this year. 00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:21.039 So the good news is she made it. 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:33.680 I got to be really had the time to be the dad I wanted to be, that maybe I would have forgone because I thought, well, I'd have to keep working to you know do all this other stuff that I thought was more important, and in turn, she was more important than everything else. 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:34.559 Totally. 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:35.680 Well, that's great news. 00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:36.319 That is great. 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:37.759 So she's 34 today, you say? 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:40.079 34 uh in a couple months. 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:41.680 Hey, fantastic. 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:49.759 So, one of the things that I've always thought and and has been told to me in my whole career, when I said I started when I was 23 years old, so I got right in. 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:50.799 You got right at it. 00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:54.960 I had some people that poured into my life and they were telling me that, you know, people are people. 00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:59.759 It doesn't matter what the day or the date is on the calendar, people are still people. 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:05.680 Um, and you need to treat them like that because they've got similar needs across the board. 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:09.839 They're people, you know, so when you're dealing with people, you have to have people skills and all that other stuff. 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:21.839 But what I wanted to get to is that is there anything different today that a dentist face, or do they still have the same concerns uh that they did back when you were having the same concerns? 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:32.960 But if there was something different, is there's been something that has surprised you to say, okay, that wasn't my concern, but I see it now, and anything like that that's ever surprised you? 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:49.440 Well, I I think the big thing today, Kevin, uh, is that the last I'd say the uh the 40-year period from 1980 to 2020, you know, uh the the where where we had COVID, but that wasn't really my point. 00:19:49.599 --> 00:20:04.720 Uh we had we have had a long secular cycle from the the the interest rate highs of the Volcker era era in 1980 to to tap down inflation of decreasing interest rates, uh a lot of liquidity in the marketplace, uh relatively relatively predictable returns. 00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:18.960 And I think the problem that I see, and I'd be interested in your in your in your take, because you've gone through multiple cycles, but I have a feeling that the years ahead, the decades ahead are not gonna be the same as we have in the past. 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:20.240 Uh they're gonna be different. 00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:21.839 Uh and different doesn't have to be bad. 00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:26.000 It's just different means it's only bad if you're not prepared for it, I would say. 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:32.720 Uh my point is, you know, I grew up as a is a I'm right in the middle of the baby boom generation, right smack in the middle, right? 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:48.559 So so I feel like that in that generation, even though I worked really hard, um, had some some tailwinds that allowed my hard work to be um maybe exacerbated, um, where a lot of people think, well, that was my skill. 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:49.279 You know, my skill. 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:51.759 I made a lot of money in XYZ, whatever it was, right? 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:54.720 And sometimes people take that to heart and say, well, that's just my skill. 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:56.480 I can repeat that over and over again. 00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:02.880 And I feel like some of that was hard work, it's definitely hard work, but some of that was also luck in the marketplace. 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:17.440 And I just believe that we're gonna see uh some some differences in the long-term and even the short-term cycles ahead, which means recency bias, going back and saying, well, what has been will continue. 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:23.519 And a big part of what I know you see a lot today, we see it all across the board, FOMO, fear of missing out. 00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:32.079 Well, you know, I I don't want to miss these big highs, these big returns, and yet, you know, and this is your area of expertise, uh, but you know, the market's at all-time highs right now. 00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:34.319 So uh so where you know, where do you go? 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:41.440 Uh and I think a lot of people just kind of put their head in the sand and go, and just you know, keep their fingers crossed and think, well, well, just keep doing whatever's been happening. 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:47.920 And I I think this is the time that you really people should dig in with with advisors who have multiple years in the cycles. 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:57.440 And I it it's really a time, Kevin, where I think maybe reducing expectations and becoming more realistic because that's what's gonna give you optionality. 00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:06.720 And I think the worst thing people can do is hang their dependency on sustaining a higher lifestyle, particularly after they leave active income. 00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:11.920 So now you're dependent

upon replacement income with the assets you've acquired you've acquired, you've built. 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:14.480 Uh now you're dependent on replacement income. 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:18.640 Are you are you prepared for the volatility that I think we're gonna see? 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:25.200 And are you prepared to be a little bit more risk averse, risk mitigated, uh, keep a higher margin of liquidity? 00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:29.440 Who wants to maintain liquidity when you can when you can leverage and get more money make more in the markets? 00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:30.640 That's what we've seen in the past, right? 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:32.240 And everybody wants more of that, more of that. 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:33.119 Give me more, give me more. 00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:35.599 And I think I think it's kind of time to pull back. 00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:45.759 So that was a long answer to your question, but I think that's what I see as a danger for a lot of people that are that are entering that phase of I'd like to leave active income now, I'm ready to go, and let's just the market. 00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:47.039 Is going to take care of me. 00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:49.359 And I think that's probably not a good way to look at it. 00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:50.240 Yeah, right. 00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:56.240 So many people become victims to the headlines and they make those decisions based on what they see and hear all the time. 00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:59.680 But you need to stay in control, you need to stay on top of things. 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:04.880 Uh, you need velocity, you need leverage, you need all of those things, which tax savings do as well. 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:05.759 It's on top of it. 00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:07.039 So let's dive deeper. 00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:11.200 What part of being a dentist for you was the hardest to let go of? 00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:13.200 Was it income status control? 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:23.920 I'm asking you this question in light of maybe a doctor that's listening now, that they might be having that question to say, yes, I what you're saying is resonating with me. 00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:26.000 I know this is me. 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:27.680 You you hit a bullseye. 00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:32.720 As far as for them, what would be the hardest thing do you think to for them to let go? 00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:34.400 Yeah, it's a great question. 00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:35.200 I see it all the time. 00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:45.839 And I'm a little bit of an outlier in the fact that I always was kind of working on a plan B, and I had I I really had an identity to some degree outside of dentistry. 00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:52.880 And so for me, I can honestly say it was it was not it was not a hard decision for me to to leave dentistry. 00:23:52.960 --> 00:24:02.480 I mean, my main focus was, as I said earlier, do I have enough replacement income from the assets I had acquired at that point to sustain what I felt was important for my family? 00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:03.359 That was it for me. 00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:06.559 It wasn't taking the hat off and saying I'm no longer a dentist. 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:07.759 That never bothered me. 00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:13.039 But I would say, to your point, my work with others is that's a huge, huge piece. 00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:18.000 In fact, I'll see many that are at the point where financially they're okay. 00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:18.960 They're they're gonna be okay. 00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:24.880 They could they can make the move, and if they want to transition out, sell the the business, the practice, um, they they could do that. 00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:30.240 And I'll see some get right up to to the line, you know, it's time to sit on the LOI, right? 00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:34.720 And they'll pull back almost almost to a point of self-sabotage. 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:44.960 And when you start to dig in and so they start making excuses, well, you know, the deal the deal's not good enough or something, and and you start to see be beyond that and and see it's really about the identity. 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:57.200 And and that's huge because I I get it, you know, when when when when you're your identity, you respect all these years has been built on uh who you are uh and what you do. 00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:07.599 Um, you know, you go to an office, uh, you you you take care of people, people are are are are very happy to see you because you solve problems, you've got a staff that respects you. 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:12.720 Um and and and to walk away from that one, and then you say, Who am I now? 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:14.640 What what's my meaning and purpose? 00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:31.440 And and I think the worst thing for people who don't have a purpose or a place to go for the what I call their next after having a success successful career over many decades is is is they will oftentimes decline, uh decline physically, emotionally. 00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:46.799 Uh it can be a bad place for many, and I think this is a key is they've got to start having uh the the the internal discussions or discussions with other people uh well before they just decide to to leave practice because that can hit them like a brick wall. 00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:48.319 So true. 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:58.079 I've got a lot of friends in that space too that deal with those very issues about who you are after the fact, what lifestyle and what's your identity and connecting people like that. 00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:00.160 It really serves really well. 00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:06.559 Have you ever had this moment where people said to you, What are you, crazy? 00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:09.039 And then six months later, how'd you know? 00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:11.279 Do you have you ever had one of those moments? 00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:13.359 Uh you talk about me personally? 00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:14.480 Yeah, personally. 00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:18.559

Like when you were gonna break away, were there people saying, What are you crazy for doing this? 00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:25.200 And then six months later, after everything started to formulate and you started to be successful on the other side, then they'd say, How did you know? 00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:27.039 Have you ever had one of those kind of moments? 00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:28.640 Well, it's yeah, it's it's interesting. 00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:33.920 Um initially, the the people that that knew uh actually it here's how it happened. 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:37.359 You know, my my wife um sent out a Christmas letter. 00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:40.799 This was, you know, many years ago when I had made a decision to sell the practice. 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:42.960 And the Christmas letter was really about my daughter Jenna. 00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:46.480 You know, she'd gone through the liver transplant, you know, things were finally starting to look better. 00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:53.519 So we felt like, and she took it upon herself to send out a letter to our friends and colleagues, uh, and just to kind of report the status. 00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:57.519 And you so the subtle line was, you know, David's David sold the practice. 00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:00.240 It wasn't some like big celebration, you know, pop the corks and that. 00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:01.920 It was just like he made a decision. 00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:07.759 And the response we got back from a handful of my closest friends were like, Well, David, I get it. 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:10.880 I mean, I would do the same thing for my family or daughter, so I understand that. 00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:12.640 So it wasn't like, are you crazy? 00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:15.039 No, it's like, okay, you had a real reason. 00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:22.079 But the the the question that I got on under that, Kevin, was okay, but could you tell me how you did that? 00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:25.200 So it's like like good for you. 00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:33.200 You made a you made a smart move, but but that doesn't seem right that you could pull that off when you're in your 40s and uh no, what what how does this work? 00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:37.359 And so it was like, well, could you tell me could you you know this is a handful, Kevin? 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.759 I'm not talking about well, could you could you show me or tell me how you did that? 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:44.480 And that's really kind of how Freedom Founders started. 00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:46.720 I had again no vision, but I had a handful. 00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:54.799 I said, Well, I said, I said, I I I can show you what I did, but I started when I was in my 20s, and I was balancing a lot of things, and I didn't have a big uh family then. 00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:59.759 So I said, there's there's other ways to do it, but that's kind of how Freedom Founders started, um, long story short. 00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:02.319 And um, so that's the answer to your question. 00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:08.720 A couple of follow-up questions to that, too, is like, why are so many high-income professionals ignoring the voice? 00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:15.519 So let's say you've had the voice, like you said, there was some people that just got right to the line and backed up, self-sabotage kind of thing. 00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:18.319 Um, why do they ignore the voice? 00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:20.960 And what's been the aftermath of that? 00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:28.559 Did they realize that they should have done it and did they actually go through with it the second time around, or was it just done? 00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:32.079 Uh it's it's it's probably a a combination across the board. 00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:40.000 I mean, for some for some, they would come back around after you know uh reassessment, uh more discussions with family, with with spouse. 00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:56.799 Uh and I I think uh a big another part of it, even though even though you might look at their finances and say, you know, if you know, if you follow, follow this this protocol, this structure, this discipline, you, you know, you're you're likely to be fine. 00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:11.519 Uh, but I think there's still uh at some point some uncertainty because what I what I find is in these discussions when someone's thinking about transitioning, it for the first time the reality hits them that they no longer have the active income to bail them out or pull them out of a hole. 00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:19.839 Now they're thinking for the first time, okay, these investments that I've made over these years, the capital from the sale of my practice, uh, this is gonna have to work for me. 00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:23.839 And I've never really sat down and talked to anybody about how does this work. 00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:25.279 I mean, I've been an accumulator. 00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:27.359 I've you know put money in the 40 days and everything. 00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:30.079 And good, good, good, great, no, no problem there. 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:36.880 But now it's converting that to sustainable, predictable replacement income for hopefully some decades ahead. 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:44.880 And then we have you know uh stickier, higher inflation that we hadn't seen in in 40 years, and and now this starts to come into play, and and now there's there's some fear factor there. 00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:50.559 So it's a combination of the identity, uh the uncertainty about replacement income that has them really thinking through this. 00:29:50.640 --> 00:30:02.559 So I I think for those that that do stumble across this question and question themselves, uh, it really takes some deeper discussions and and they need some guidance from professionals that have gone through this records. 00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:12.400 I think if you're not trying to, if you're trying to do this alone or figure it out, you're not, because it this is not an area of expertise that any of us

have uh that aren't you know professional in the in these ranks. 00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:21.359 I mean, you've got to find someone who can guide you and and and give you the the the confidence that where you are is is going to work for you. 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:26.559 And and they're we're all analytical, so we appreciate, but we don't know how to analyze it, is the problem. 00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:26.880 Right. 00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:32.079 Do you think there needs to be something said to them to maybe jolt them or get their attention? 00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:35.440 Do you have anything that you say that kind of opens their mind? 00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:52.319 Because I've always uh thought about everybody needs somebody to challenge what you're thinking, it's like a mental vitamin, is what I call them, you know, so that you can say, okay, they're doing stuff that I never thought I could do, and they're giving me ideas, and it's just opening up my mind to bigger and better things. 00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:57.200 Is there something that you would say that would kind of start that thought process with a dentist? 00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:07.440 Kevin, I I I like like you, I've I've had so many conversations over the years and in in my own reflections of my own life, you know, and bringing that back and thinking, well, what was I thinking then? 00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:08.880 What were my thought processes? 00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:13.680 Yeah, I I I really think it's you know, it's it's timing with with each individual. 00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:17.680 It's it's a it's a message and a timing that resonates with a particular person. 00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:23.599 I don't think there's any broad-based message that any one of us can give that would be a kind of a wake-up call. 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:25.680 Um, it's it's I think we put a different message. 00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:37.920 It's why I write different books, uh, and I do, you know, like you, I do podcasts and and and just trying to get messages out so something on the right day, the right time will resonate with that person, and they decide, hey, this is the time I need to make a move. 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:43.359 I've been procrastinating this, and whatever that person said to me or whatever I read, it's like it's prompting me to action. 00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:44.559 Look, I'm the same way. 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:49.599 Uh there's things out in my life that I know I you should should should do or take care of. 00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:51.039 They're not burning fires right now. 00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:52.160 I think I have more time. 00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:53.599 And yet something wakes me up. 00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:58.480 It could be someone else's experience, could be a case study, could be uh a friend accommodating something. 00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:06.559 It's like, okay, I need to take that to heart and make some moves in that direction that I've put off for many years. 00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:10.799 So

there's not one message that I've found that that that covers it all. 00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:11.359 No. 00:32:11.839 --> 00:32:19.359 So what should a dentist be thinking about or doing right now if they wanted to consider this or if they want it out? 00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:39.519 Yeah, I think it's it begins with really doing internal, uh, again, internal, but also with one's spouse, their significant significant other, uh, to start designing today uh what they want in the future, you know, timelines, you know, a year from now, three years from now, five years from now, looking down the road, what exactly they want to see happen? 00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:41.680 And again, I I bring that back to time. 00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:43.359 Uh what kind of time do you want? 00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:48.880 What's you know, if if you could have more duration with your business or your practice, what would that look like? 00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:52.559 What would allow you to stay in it longer if you were happy doing it? 00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:57.039 So building that in and then reverse engineering back into okay, then what does that mean financially? 00:32:57.119 --> 00:32:59.920 What does that mean in terms of the income that I need to produce? 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:03.839 How much do I still need to add to my net worth that's going to turn into replacement income? 00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:04.960 The things that you do, right? 00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:11.759 But I think it starts with the conversation uh that facilitated by somebody who's good at doing that with the couple. 00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:26.880 Um when they when they can get real about that, now you've got their attention, now they're on the same page, because the worst thing is is to have you know couples to have have one spouse thinking one way and the other thinking the other way, and there's there's no no coal coalition in the middle. 00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:35.039 And once they can come together and and and and nod their heads, not totally and agreeing on everything, but understanding there's a place for for what each one wants. 00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:42.880 And some of us are more long-term thinkers and we'll just put off uh you know any kind of relevance for today, and that's not good. 00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:47.279 And then there's others that you know we'll we'll burn everything for today, you know, and not everything for the future. 00:33:47.680 --> 00:34:10.559 So so there's a but there's a you know, this there's a place to bring that together and and give and and if if each if each each person in the in the in the relationship know and feel confident they're gonna get ultimately what's really important to them, uh, which means it's gonna be important to the other person too, then they can move forward with a plan that's gonna be cohesive and they can look at and it can be monitored and they can have checkpoints. 00:34:10.640 --> 00:34:13.359 And now you've got something and not just guessing anymore. 00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:16.239 That's the worst thing to just be guessing and putting it off to the future. 00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:17.680 Oh my gosh, yes. 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:19.760 Communication with your spouse is paramount. 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:32.880 It's kind of interesting too, because if you sit them down and you ask them uh a series of questions and you don't let them look at the answers that they provide and then try to find that crossover point, um, it's a real eye-opening thing. 00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:43.840 I usually tell clients, you know, okay, the point purpose of this is to remain married after this, you know, but just going through and just be real with it and then find out where that common ground is. 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:56.079 Do you find that dentists talk amongst themselves, you know, from dentist to dentist to say, uh, here's what I'm thinking, here's my struggles, here's what I'm going through, here's my fear, or is it more isolated and they don't say anything to anybody? 00:34:56.320 --> 00:34:58.000 Very, very isolated, Kevin. 00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:06.559 Uh, it's yeah, it's a world in which you don't want to show up to the outside world, particularly your colleagues, and look like you're weak. 00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:07.119 Okay. 00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:07.440 Yeah. 00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:10.000 I'm just saying, it's it's it's it's unfortunate. 00:35:10.159 --> 00:35:20.320 And I and I get it, I get it, you know, because I'm I'm not a person who's gonna walk into a a room or uh a round table or something if I don't know the people and just start opening up about my life. 00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:35.119 I mean, uh, but I think part of it is if you're in an environment where that kind of discussion is facilitated and and and I don't mean to say allowed, but but but it's it's a you know safe space to talk. 00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:36.960 You strip the egos off. 00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:40.159 That's what allows for the deeper dive. 00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:46.800 But no, it's this is not these are not conversations that that the the dentists are gonna have at the meetings or continuing education courses. 00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:52.960 It's like, nope, it's like, how's the practice and what's the latest uh technology you just purchased, and uh, how are you dealing with insurance? 00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:54.719 And it's all it's all business stuff, right? 00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:56.320 And then there's nothing that goes deeper. 00:35:56.400 --> 00:36:02.880 So it's yeah, I think it really is a a place where facilitation of this kind of discussion can have great merits. 00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:08.559 So someone could sit down in a group setting at some point and say, hi, I'm Kevin, and I'm a dentist. 00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:11.119 You know, and just look at it. 00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:12.480 That might be very helpful. 00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:21.280 What is something that you believe or have seen about financial freedom today

that would have sounded crazy to you as a practicing dentist? 00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:30.400 I just I think the word uh retirement, particularly where we are in the market cycle today, doesn't make a lot of sense. 00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:35.199 I I I think that's been a moniker that's you know it's been with us for decades and decades. 00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:41.280 It's like you know, you you work through a career, a business, a profession, whatever it is, you know, and then you have a retirement day. 00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:44.559 And and I'm but I'm all about evolving to a next next. 00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:48.559 Now, sometimes evolving to a next does mean you leave the primary business. 00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:58.880 But for a lot of people today, Kevin, I'm finding that again, once they have peace of mind about their finances and the alignment with their spouse, so they've got a plan, they breathe. 00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:14.000 And then when you can breathe a little bit, I'm seeing dentists redesigning the their practice model not to be in such an urgency or a grind position where like, well, I've I've I've got to I've got to get the revenues up and I get the profits up because I need to get this big sale. 00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:17.440 That's that should not be the motive. 00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:24.159 Certainly, you want to, when you decide to sell, you should you should, you know, again, uh, you know, optimize to the extent possible. 00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:30.480 But if you hang everything on some big exit, some big multiple that has been relevant in the past, wrong move. 00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:40.320 And I've seen many dentists who have restructured their practice model and are actually enjoying it, sometimes enjoying it because they've actually got the respect it respect and reputation in the community. 00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:45.360 They have a strong core team, which is hard to develop, and of course they have a loyal patient base. 00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:54.719 And it's like, well, when you can restructure your business so you don't feel like you have to be hitting certain numbers, you still want to be profitable, but maybe you you you you reduce the the days in the chair. 00:37:54.880 --> 00:37:59.280 Maybe you you you reduce some of the some of the procedures you just don't like to do anymore. 00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:03.760 Okay, when you can do that, you can show up more days or maybe three days a week. 00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:05.519 I've got dentists doing that right now. 00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:08.320 They're saying, hey, I can do this for another three, four, five, six years. 00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:10.960 Three years ago, I thought I wanted out completely. 00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:26.239 And so not only have they retained a more of a transition to their new identity, they've also facilitated um a sustenance of some active income that could be uh adding to their you know accumulation for replacement income. 00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:39.599 There's many benefits to having uh a roadmap, a plan that allows you to have peace of mind because it takes the stress off and takes away this idea that you've got to just keep pumping, pumping, pumping, pumping for some magical exit that may not happen to the degree you want. 00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:42.960 Yeah, man, how you structure it and have a systems in place. 00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:46.559 And I had a chief urologist speak with me last this past Saturday. 00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:48.559 He says, Kevin, I work three days a week now. 00:38:48.639 --> 00:38:52.000 He says, I never thought I'd get to that point, but I absolutely love it. 00:38:52.159 --> 00:38:56.559 He's got time for himself, time for his passion to continue on doing what he's doing. 00:38:56.719 --> 00:38:58.960 And we like to use the word like transition. 00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:00.880 Like, what are you transitioning from? 00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:03.679 It's more about what you're transitioning to, right? 00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:12.639 And that should bring the hope, that should bring the excitement, the joy of what does life look like for you on the other side of a transition when you stop practicing full time? 00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:14.079 And it's it's huge. 00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:15.039 They love it. 00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:16.960 So, man, are you having a good time? 00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:19.119 This has been a great conversation here today. 00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:21.119 I appreciate your candidness and openness. 00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:27.199 Well, I told you before we started today that I thought I was gonna enjoy this conversation because I knew a lot about you. 00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:31.360 I did some research to see you what your background was and what your philosophy was. 00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:36.480 And when I saw it, I thought, okay, this is gonna be fun because I I I like you, I'm very passionate about this. 00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:45.760 I really enjoy being in a position where where I don't have to do anything either, but I enjoy the work I'm privileged to do with the people that I'm privileged to work with. 00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:50.079 And just you know, you know, I just giving guidance and really more. 00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:56.400 Um I tell people, I I feel like I I'm a person who interferes in other people's lives if they'll allow me to do so. 00:39:57.039 --> 00:39:57.920 Hopefully, in a good one. 00:39:58.239 --> 00:39:59.119 In a good way. 00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:00.719 Yeah, very good way. 00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:05.440 What do you see as a timeline for a dentist that says, yes, I'd like to do this? 00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:09.599 Is there a specific timeline like you say, like maybe three years, two years, one year? 00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:15.519 What does a dentist need to get ready to maybe say, okay, let's let's put this thought process into motion? 00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:21.280 Uh are you speaking specifically about just creating more optionality or

actually uh transitioning out of the business? 00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:23.280 Or yeah, transitioning out of the business. 00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:27.679 Once they say, Okay, I don't know, you've got to get your valuations, you got to put all that in place. 00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:31.199 But what do you think is a good timeline for a dentist thinking about this? 00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:33.679 Well, I think you've got to start at least three years in advance. 00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:36.960 Um, you you you've got to have good financials. 00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:47.039 And I and again, uh I find a a lot of doctors who are very good technical doctors, um, that a lot of times their financials, I'm sure you see it too, are are not up to par. 00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:54.559 So uh those so you need three years of of some good books, some good numbers that are reliable uh to give you the markers for evaluation. 00:40:54.719 --> 00:41:04.320 Uh, but also, but also I think that you know there's a a period of a mindset shift uh as you're thinking about transitioning, as we said earlier, uh there's gonna be a big identity change. 00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:11.360 So if you start three years in advance, then you've got time to start to start you know figuring out and what is that transition gonna look like? 00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:13.840 Uh you know, what's what's the potential exit? 00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:15.039 Who's gonna be the buyer, right? 00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:26.880 And I think once you identify what that looks like for for the individual, for for that person, now you can design, well, then what should be done, what needs to be done based on their goals um in and how they want to exit. 00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:30.400 A lot of docs would like to you know make it more of a transition. 00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:36.159 And there's ways to do that, of course, as you know, or sometimes it's just an outline sale, walk-away, whatever that looks like. 00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:42.880 But um starting in advance, because until you start to think about it and have discussions about it, your your mind's not there. 00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:58.320 And there's things that are gonna start to pop up that you want to be able to address and have time to really consider some of those aspects uh that are going to show up and be important before you get there or feel like you're you're in an urgency to make it happen real quickly, because that's never a good thing. 00:41:58.639 --> 00:41:59.280 Yeah. 00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:06.639 So if a dentist feels successful but not fulfilled, they feel like on paper they're successful, but obviously not fulfilled. 00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:09.280 What's the first step that they should take maybe this week? 00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:16.559 If you can grab a hold of them and say, hey, here's something that you could put into motion right now, tomorrow morning, this week, whatever. 00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:29.840 Yeah, Kevin, I think the first thing so we can start working into the other things is they need to determine, uh, and this is the work that's never done uh because they don't have to do it while they're working, is what's their burn rate? 00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:31.840 What's their real lifestyle burn rate? 00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:34.559 What what what is their personal cost of living? 00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:36.239 Uh, all in, all in. 00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:40.000 Uh, you know, take taking over a full year, average down to a monthly basis. 00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:48.880 Every time that I drill down on that and I kind of in a nice way force them uh to do the work to get those numbers because they don't, no one wants to do it. 00:42:49.039 --> 00:42:53.360 And look, let's face it, as long as you're producing good income, you kind of don't have to do it, right? 00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:58.239 You just like you can always live to fight another day, you can pay those bills and keep going on, but it's kind of like treading water. 00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:08.639 But I've I've had so many come back and say thank you for for forcing us to have this discussion, to get the real numbers, because as again, as a couple, we looked at and go, okay, well, again, what's important? 00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:17.119 Uh, how much of this has just been been an over-amplific amplification of more and more costs that get added on, added on, added on, because it's just easy to do. 00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:27.039 And how much, if we s if we were willing to strip away some of the oversubscriptions to things that we don't really value anymore, would that change our methodology and our timeline? 00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:28.239 So I always start there. 00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:43.039 It's a financial piece, but until they have that, then all the other, I think, conversations are kind of peripheral and don't really come to a point where they are they, the client, uh, the the member in my case is going to feel confident about having any conversations beyond that. 00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:44.559 Because it comes down to it. 00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:46.559 Um they're they're they're numbers people. 00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:54.800 Um they they get it, even though they haven't had to do the work on the numbers, they understand numbers come into play at some point if they're gonna create more time and optionality in their life. 00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:58.239 So if you want the freedom, there's some work you gotta do. 00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:00.079 Unfortunately, there's work to be done. 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:00.559 Yes. 00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:04.000 You know what, but the future you will thank yourself for it. 00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:05.519 This is an important point. 00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:08.639 You're doing it for yourself when you do those numbers. 00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:15.519 It's something that you're working on for the better you, for the the transition you that you want to be on the other side of this. 00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:18.719 So if that's a

great reason to do it too. 00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:24.079 So maybe a little pain now for less pain later and a lot of happiness and a lot of breathing. 00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:24.639 Absolutely. 00:44:24.960 --> 00:44:28.239 I'd like to know a little bit more about Freedom Founders if you could let them know about that. 00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:31.360 And just open mic here, and also just about your books. 00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:35.119 If there's a couple of books you want to highlight, I know you've written what seven or eight of them or so. 00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:36.400 Yeah, I've got seven or eight. 00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:37.599 Um, yeah, yeah. 00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:40.880 Uh yeah, I I I I enjoy writing. 00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:43.119 Um, and so I've written a lot of books on a lot of topics. 00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:44.880 Uh, you know, uh, what's your next? 00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:49.679 And uh uh books on on on maintaining freedom in life. 00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:55.920 Uh the most recent book I wrote, which is again coming back to the word optionality, is is as the exit optional playbook. 00:44:56.079 --> 00:45:02.639 Um I'm it's not it's not not my most favorite, but it's it's a very relevant book to to today. 00:45:02.719 --> 00:45:05.840 So those books are available if people want to just dig in more to philosophy. 00:45:06.159 --> 00:45:09.679 Freedom Founders itself is is I really describe it as a as a community. 00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:12.480 I am not an advisor, not a financial advisor. 00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:32.400 I'm just one who facilitates conversations uh that people, our members can become more cognizant of what's important in their lives, uh have some basis of where they are financially and then they can be in a better position to go back and work with their advisors and and have have I always say have better questions. 00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:38.000 You're never going to be as good as people who have like yourself Kevin who are who have been doing this for years and years. 00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:47.519 But you you become a better client you become a better advocate for your own self and your future and for your family for generations if you know enough to ask better questions. 00:45:47.679 --> 00:45:58.159 Because you you know Kevin when someone comes in and they're they're a little bit more educated about about certain aspects of life and finance then you have to have a better client because you can have discussions at a greater level. 00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:31.679 So starting there to do that for themselves uh but freedom is a community we have member member events uh it's a very it's a very tight community um it's uh it's people that uh I I kind of relate it to the sitcom cheers where you walk in the bar and everybody knows your name it's it's it's that kind of a tribe um so I I I guess we're just blessed to have that I guess I I attract I attract certain people and probably I repel other people but that's okay because that's the

way it should be in life you should you should work with the people you enjoy working with and who who appreciate you and and there's always other people and places for people to go that that better fit. 00:46:31.760 --> 00:47:38.159 So uh freedomfounders.com is the website um I also have a podcast I'd love to have you on it Kevin as well it's the Freedom Founders podcast I enjoy it so yeah because I think we could we could do a deep dive uh with some of your um your your uh revelations you've had over the years as well so yeah enjoy talking to anybody who uh who would like to know more about the community at any time that's excellent I appreciate this conversation um is there anything else you'd like to use for any kind of closing remarks as we wrap it up here I I would just say that uh that your life is your life and whoever you are listening today that I no doubt you are successful uh by definitions of society and of your your your industry uh probably in the light of your your your family but there's there's always a price that we pay there's a price we pay there's always everything in life comes with a trade-off so I would just say this is not not to you know demean oneself but say you know who else is paying a price for whatever you or in this case me what what I think is important and it's and it's not saying you haven't done a good job but who else is paying a price for what we think is important? 00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:50.079 Maybe it's a time to have discussions uh while we still have time with the people we care about because at the end of life we're not gonna look back and say well gee if I would have just worked a little harder I could have gotten a bigger multiple on the exit of my practice. 00:47:50.239 --> 00:48:11.039 It's not gonna come up I promise you uh if I would have had more in the 401k not going to come up so just think about those things now and and and place yourself in a position where looking back in time you will have said okay the things are important in my life I focused on those to the best I could I had the conversations I did the best I could no I say live life with no regrets is the best thing we can do. 00:48:11.360 --> 00:48:13.039 I was gonna say no regrets. 00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:22.639 Absolutely um because that that's what matters that's what matters and the legacy that you leave for everything that you've created I want to thank you so much for your time today. 00:48:22.719 --> 00:48:27.119 It's been a wonderful chat with you here today on our podcast uh this has been Dr. 00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:33.519 David Phelps from Freedom Founders joining us here today um on the Physician Wealth Med podcast. 00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:44.000 It's a wealth podcast for doctors and see this is how you can create wealth both inside and outside of your practice so that you will have wealth that will sustain you for generations. 00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:46.480 So I want to thank you for joining us here today. 00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:49.519 Powerful conversation today with Dr. 00:48:49.679 --> 00:48:57.280 David Phelps and if you're listening closely you probably realize that this wasn't about dentistry and it wasn't just about your money. 00:48:57.360 --> 00:48:58.480 It was about control. 00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:14.800 Control over your time control over your decisions and ultimately control over your future because here's the truth a high income does not automatically create freedom and success in your practice doesn't generate sustainability in your life after it. 00:49:14.960 --> 00:49:32.000 So at some point your clinical paycheck will stop and when it does the question becomes have you built a system that can replace it reliably predictably and on your terms that's exactly why I created the retirement income decision room for physicians. 00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:40.480 It's where we take everything that you've built and help you structure it into a clear coordinated income system designed to last as long as you do. 00:49:40.719 --> 00:49:54.719 If this conversation resonated with you and if you've ever just had that thought I just really want to know if I'm ready I want to take the next step you can learn more at the retirement income decision room dot com