00:00:07will wait until my my name is Cesar Contreras welcome to pencil bursa's pixel or we get behind the scenes in the world of Commercial Art and where we get to know professionals such as artists designers illustrators the methods practices and strategies that we could use in our creative careers
00:00:26today's awesome guest is the illustration and design extraordinary Dan Styles and we get to talk about his book one thing leads to another as well as a little bit of his background what he does how he got where he is we talked about the poster art world dance well known for his music poster art which is amazing for the great stuff that we discuss
00:00:53her stand out
00:00:56just to let you know I have a small special announcement at the end of the show so you're welcome to stick around it'll be at the end of the show after this interview with our special guest so I hope you enjoy my conversation with the one the only dance styles
00:01:22dance styles welcome to show thank you for joining me today and I we we had a tough time the first the first to go around but I'm glad to be here interview time just try to troubleshoot Skype but you know what I'm glad that you're here today and right of first try everything working seamlessly so I'm hoping my fingers right now I'm hoping that this is going to continue well but it's so far so good I always start the conversation with a very strange question deserve an ice breaker
00:01:56the question is pencil or pixel the name of the of the podcast and I was like you know this is this is going to be the last question right now I'm kind of like 90% pixel but there was a. Of my life where I was a hundred percent pencil and and I wouldn't trade it for the world because I think I think knowing how to draw is like the fundamental skill of any visual artist I don't care what medium you work and you need to know how to draw you don't need to know how to draw like Michelangelo but you need to know how I like concept and sketch and express yourself visually and the easiest way to do that by far as with a pencil you know like if you're sitting at a table talking to somebody and trying to talk about an idea you know you'll pull out your phone and try to draw it on the screen and you still I still do that but I but I found it started the direction my career is gone and really the direction that
00:02:56Commercial Art has gone it it really behooves me not only personally to express myself but also to be able to sell my work to work digitally because you know I do something for a ad campaign and it's in there going to use it there might use it as a as a little tiny 300 by 300 pixel at Banner ad but they might blow it up and put on the side of a bus to you and if that's a hand drawing hand inch piece of art do that very easily or take it into After Effects an animated so you know I really found that it's it's really helpful to work most men I work mostly vector-based but I it's it's become kind of a selling point but it's also it's just easier for me to think and work that way because I can Mei you seen my book and I talked about how you can you can start at work you can work on concept and color and layout and everything all at the same time when you work digitally when you're working traditional you kind of have to have to start and finish each step of the process
00:03:56and then you have to commit to that and then move to the next part and I think that's a good skill to have so you aren't just a big mess when you're trying to work but it's really nice to be able to be 2/3 of the way through a project be like how you know I hate that color change that color the type or you know how you know I don't even need this this you know she only needs one eye looks like the other guy off of here yet origin of the concept all together right yeah or sometimes I'll be working on something and I realize like I could I could go tighter you know I can dial this all in and just didn't start it was really reductive I I take away like I'll build something it'll be really kind of messy and cluttered in the mid what don't I need so you can take stuff off the page and then that's so much easier digitally I mean you can do it with pencil and paper but it's going to require you know a whole roll of tracing paper and I in an evening spent you know what kind of redrawing the same thing over and over again I mean people did it for a hundred years so it can be done but
00:04:56it's just for me you know I think I'm I'm pixel now but if it's somebody is a young artist I'm not going to tell him to skip over the pencil stage oh no
00:05:06how to read a little excerpt from your buggy just mentioned your book and we're going to get into that it but in a bit this is
00:05:13circuit looting to what you just said something about digital art right do you say digital are gets a bum rap some people think the computer makes the are for you at the push of a button other say that are produced in our computer lacks Soul what I've come to realize that the tool is just the tool for the pencil and a computer can be used poorly a person might take my make terrible digital art but give them a pencil and I'll suck just as hard I love that man love that Tim biskup snow mostly for his paintings but a lot of his prints Vector you know because it's really easy to make color separations on illustrator try to color separate a painting I got to take a photo of it for a second the Photoshop you a bunch of channels mean it's a nightmare but he just he just going to switch it over to illustrator and you know that works there and then he's so it looks a little different around the edges in his paintings but it still looks like Tim biskup
00:06:13so fantastic right definitely I just read an excerpt from a book and working to get your book but before that it was a brief background what is it you do and how did you get here
00:06:28but how did I get here from a good place to start I I I was always kind of the kid who could draw you know I was in the comic books and then the Sunday cartoons and Nina from a very early age I was just really enamored with not only drawing but also what pop culture you know Godzilla movies or whatever it was I just I really thought that stuff was really cool so did all my friends I never thought much of it I can I went through elementary school and then most of my friends were interested in comic books and whatnot to and and then you know Junior High wears wear that all kind of start to fall away and by the time I got to high school there were a lot less people who are interested in that kind of stuff is people found different things but one thing I did
00:07:15what would be part of my life to change between 38th and 9th grade was I went to HighSchool I went to a magnet school downtown and it was basically like punk rock High all the kids were Weird Al Outsider artistic types you know we had skaters and punks in metalheads and yes pretty much nobody was like a normal kid like you might see in a movie about high school like those kids just didn't exist there's no football team hydraulic shocks so again I was kind of surrounded by a bunch of people who maybe they didn't draw but they did something creative and and I fell into that world of punk rock and the world of album covers and cool t-shirt designs and skateboard designs in and that really had a huge influence on me but it really wasn't until I went to college but I moved out west I grew up in Ann Arbor Michigan. Moved out west to go to school cuz I wanted to be closer to the Northwest music thing that was going on I realize actually that not everybody knew how to do this it was at it turned out to be kind of unique
00:08:15and a guy lived with in this big house worked on campus at the campus promoting group was okay do you want to do do posters and it first I was like 20 bucks and all the beer you can drink at the show and I'm like alright fuck a sign me up and I'd always been into posters I collected them flyers on telephone poles and high school for for punk rock bands so it didn't able to me to be part of the music scene without being a musician so I always I mean I love that seem like I said I'd kind of moved out here for that scene so it allowed me to be part of what was happening even though I can't play a note and so that's that's where it started started with posters honestly thought that was that was what drag me I mean with all this, my first real Commercial Art was posters after I graduated college I didn't get an art degree I've got a sociology degree after I graduated I really wanted to get into graphic arts but with absolutely no training
00:09:15like I am I going to do this right so I I work in print shops t-shirt shops I worked swept floors and places the printed envelopes you know anything I could do to kind of get close to The Graphic Arts but it didn't really work that well I spent Mia 2 3 years doing do any sort of odd job and start a very low level Graphics jobs in and then I decide if I really want to do this I got to go back to school so I went to school down in California at CCA for graphic design where I met Michael Cronin new hired me out of the classroom to work in his studio and from there I buy expanded because we did identity at that point we were doing branding and identity and web sites and all this kind of stuff so I'll I really move beyond the poster at school and be on the poster professionally for a lot of years sit on the bay area for like 6 or 7 years started my studio down there eventually moved it back up to Portland where I kind of wanted to be in the end anyway
00:10:13the minute we moved up here my wife and I I got married in the meantime to make sure we were able to get we are buying a house for less than our studio apartment cost us every month in San Francisco so I had a basement and I was able to set up a proper Studio again it wasn't just a computer sitting on the kitchen table it was snowing I could set up a printing press and I can set up a whole screen so I jump back into posters because that was that's my passion and choose is good timing because I jump back in the posters and then the corporate design Market crashed in about 2008 with the economy Great Recession hit and so a lot of my corporate clients just died literally the company went out of business or they could they cut back on their advertising budgets I've been getting so much traction with v posters that I've been going to start picking up illustration work and that really led to the kind of work that I really wanted to be doing anyway which is much more illustration based it's it's a lost art of design is what I call it
00:11:13truly illustration like an illustrator would do but it's not really design like a traditional designer does either I look more like it people like Paul Rand and Saul bass and people who are doing in the fifties and sixties the Eames is really had a combination of typography and layout and illustration and graphics and a real kind of punch to their work a graphical punch that I try to have in my work as well and it's the same kind of work it's magazine illustration of book covers Motion Graphics that kind of stuff that dead
00:11:49allows that style to kind of be at its best there there certain venues for that style works better than another venues and that's really what I'm doing today and so that that's not it's all kind of tied together starting from you know whenever I started the Story Elementary School to know very cool master answer the question I forgot what the question was your whole story and then it quick summary which is great now that's that definitely answer the question you said that you gained traction what what what do you mean by contraction when when when you started redoing recreating posters for new posters to let you know what how do I get how do I do a poster for back in your arm like what you don't you don't do a poster for back you do a poster for your friendship and you know and then you do another poster for your friend Shady band and hopefully
00:12:38whoever they were your friend she been is opening for will have you a poster for them and you get traction you slowly build a portfolio you also build skills cuz your first poster or whatever it is your first magazine your for whatever first snowboard where we trying to design isn't going to be any good it might be okay but it's not going to be it's not your best work so you create this portfolio is body of work and you improve every time you make something it eventually
00:13:04if you keep improving bigger and bigger fish notice and that's what I mean by gaining traction so you know MTV's not going to call you if you've never designed anything that they need you know what I mean but have you designed a bunch of stuff and they can you get on their radar they lose this over here like this this guy's work at school what's that's that's by a piece of that cuz that's really what I do now I used to get jobs for people can you format this PowerPoint for me or whatever it is and you were just the guy you know how to work the software but now it's more like I have a sort of a style in a voice and clients come to me and they say oh can we have some of that can you do us something in that style to make us look like we're a rock band or whatever it is and and so I do a lot I mean you know I probably best known for my poster work but the people who really pay the bills are companies that come to me who want things stylistically that look like the posters of the posters become almost like a test bed
00:14:04call test bed for me to try things out in a in a pretty low risk environment you know because you know the posters cost money to make and they got soul but they also I mean they happen these bands they're on tour posters happen daily weekly monthly was it time to sell it was a complete crate which makes an entirely different from most work is that they give you not only carte blanche but they want you they really want you to go there so it's not so much cuz most corporate clients you you show them sort of mild medium and hot and that's pretty cool but yeah I know we can never sell that what's go with what's go with mild you know where as if you go to a band with mild medium and hot you know that they are not interested in mild at all they they want hot damn I didn't ask you to die what's up a little further like can you go you know take it take it way more out there they aren't interested in sort of tame Graphics which is you know most
00:15:02you never really going to get to explore graphically and do crazy shit for Old Navy know what I mean like they just said they aren't in a position where they can take a risk like that and that's fine perfect sense and that's not that's not where they should be you know what I mean you know if you're doing logos for corporate clients they are interested in being in the design annuals they're interested in having a logo that works
00:15:26and so their idea of works and my idea of exciting ardenne is a mile and a half between those two points so it makes a lot more sense to do exciting work for clients that want exciting work and then let these other people see it and go like oh yeah okay give us something like that that's always what they do I called self-plagiarism Asian they'll always come back to you it's something you've already done and say like this right here can you just kind of do this again with our name on it does that happen I mean any any big corporate gig I do I have gotten because an art director or somebody has grab something I've already made yeah and it's kind of like ticket in Photoshop and wiped out whatever attacks was on there and put in the new clients text Nino in and said he can of Coca-Cola like how about this guy a little bit you know they aren't going to spend
00:16:26I know the guy who makes the most money on an advertising campaign it's it's the ad by it's the media because it and add a single page ad in Rolling Stone magazine is it's $50,000 you know just to get that one page so you not going to do something crazy and experimental and that's just one of those ADS mean he's advertising companies are doing or millions of dollars so they need something proven they need something that's not really very risky that's not going to piss anybody off so it's way easier to kind of sell them something that they can already see especially because most of those people that are buying it or not in the Arts they're due to golf on the weekend you know yeah you know that it there two guys who works at my high school you know exactly jocks and and that you know the guys who is slick back gelled hair in the khakis and shit and and they don't they don't get it you know and that's fine you know I got company needs those people to operate right like they don't want me in charge of that but
00:17:22don't ask for people to make artistic decisions without showing them like literally holding something up and saying it look just like this identical
00:17:34this is what they pay to get an ad displayed like in real life so we can reach an 80 million dollar advertising campaign a wieden & Kennedy 80 million dollars to do that campaign wieden Kennedy whatever $500,000 80 million dollars worth of media I mean a Super Bowl ad right even though I'm super glad it's a prime-time commercial ads in major magazines plus Toppers all that stuff I mean you can easily spend I mean just putting as I press something other day for a client of mine I just wanted to put digital ads in the train stations the BART stations in San Francisco they have three stations that have digital ad so it would have been like eight digital Billboards for one month each piece with a run for 8 seconds at a time it was under $50,000
00:18:34that's that's you know that's where the money goes when I talk about this you know 10 million dollar ad campaign it's all going to the to the media to to buy slots at the same man but I'm going to jump in your book right now yeah I love the title one thing leads to another and can't help it but it reminds me that song by The Fixx yes everybody I have to admit the fruit when I when I saw the book The First Time the song popped up Mike and just doesn't go away it's not bad but start paying royalties
00:19:12can you explain 1st off the
00:19:17why the title of the book and you know what bit about your your process for me and that's the reason it it won out over other ideas for the title of the book first of all there's there's the one thing leads to another which is really how my career has gone which is that you know you do a poster which then leads to going to this school which then leads to meeting this professor who then I always knew doors are opening you know friends since you and I are talking right now and maybe somebody hearing this will be like all that guy sounds good let's give him a project and I mean like a test you never know where things are going to lead which which gets into the same
00:20:04meaning or the same kind of process when you talk about how I design which is that when I design something I always sit down and I have something in mind right now you are well that's not true some of this don't sit down with nothing in mind but usually I have researched whatever it is I'm designing and it's a band I listen to the records I've records yeah I've listened to their family and I have looked at past artwork that they've had and I've learned about maybe where they're from and then you know I've done my research and then I start to pull things together elements and I I see where it takes me and that's really where the one thing leads to another happens is like I might pull together alright so it's a Boombox and I see that there from you know Ohio in Ohio has car factories in so maybe the Boombox has wheels on it and you know it and you just start the kind of like
00:20:58Smosh stuff together and see what you get and you have to keep an eye on it the whole time to make sure you don't make garbage but you also look for opportunities you're like oh you know the speakers on the Boombox could also be tires with the type on the side of the tire you know you going to start looking for design opportunities but I may not have sat down with that in mind I may have just sat down with a bunch of a bunch of disparate ideas going to a Boombox a tire a flower you know a glass of wine whatever and started the kind of mush stuff up and then see what I made so it's it's definitely a process in this is why I don't ever show pencil sketches to my clients because I truly don't know what I'm going to give them until I sit down at the computer and start pulling my stuff together and even halfway through a process I might take a big heart orthogonal turn away from what I've been making because what I've been making is really just what isn't as inspired something better you know so you don't
00:21:58it's almost like a prototype you like it how you know that's kind of working but what if we did this instead and so you throw that idea out and you move on so it's it's one thing leading to another and you don't really know what it's going to be in till honestly until about 85% of the way there everyone you know and then it's just a matter of beautifying it is really up until that point it can be quite ugly honestly and in the book I show some of this process where it's like yeah this is it's all kludge together and kind of shity looking but once the idea gels you can always make it look good but if you don't have a good idea you know what you're really yeah I love that smoke and mirrors
00:22:37how long does it typically take you for a 2 to complete a project on his really depend
00:22:43math 1012 hours of work which might happen in over two or three sessions usually I like the grind on something I I have up I have an issue where I can't I can't really get anything done in less than like 3 or 4 hours because I really like to get in there and start working it and get the process going and what's the process is going I don't really like to stop and switch to something else or answer phone calls which is why I do a lot of my design work at night because it's much quieter in the phone's not ringing and and then I might stop and just put that away for a day or two work on something else and come back to it and see but if with fresh eyes yeah you know I can do this I can do that all those colors stink or or maybe go like I don't like where this goes I'm going to go back 5 iterations and then Branch off of that and I think kind of when's it looking like this weird family tree of design where this branch is going also off all over the place and eventually like yeah this design those colors you know when you start
00:23:41it's a funnel that goes out and then back in I guess would be the best way to describe it almost like a daimond that is exactly what I said I haven't really thought about this I haven't thought of this question but let me see you like if I could really speak to what I'm thinking in the height of that of the poster seen the music poster scene which was what in the late 90s and early 2000s around there so I might you mentioned that pushes have been one of those things that you've really been that road that you're really still are attracted to visit such a botched question that when I try to get to it
00:24:30if someone wants to get into Porta poster design or something for some some kind of a design that
00:24:39necessarily pay at the very beginning right but it's something you're passionate about how what do you suggest people do to get that point to get to that point of the other career well it's it's going to be different for me my answer is going to be based kind of in a pre-internet time at least how I did it
00:25:02well I should be back up I think the best way to get into anything that you wanted design is to start designing it and just be your own damn client for a while make your own website your own blog yeransian your own posters whatever the hell it is I mean if you heard of that is over 50 50 Scott he's his own client on the vast majority of that stuff so if you are really interested in something what's to stop you from just starting to make it because the first couple of them are going to be any good anyway which is what I mentioned earlier you know like you make a couple in kind of work out the bugs on your own the way I got into posters like I said was a guy hired me
00:25:47to do posters for the campus promoter and and luckily enough I happen to just be in the right place at the right time that you know mudhoney and all these bands from Seattle were coming through and so I got to design all these posters for these great bands bands make a 20 bucks a pop and it's funny that you bring up kozik because I was aware of the pictures of the sixties because of Paul crushkins book The Art of rock which I had gotten in high school. Delete progress can actually just died like last week the intro to my book it was the first real poster thing I ever saw it wasn't at the flyer in a telephone pole was his book when I was probably 16 17 years old but I got to know him later in any I needed the forward to my book but so I knew existed but my world was shity Xerox black and white hung on telephone poles
00:26:47they were there actual posters on the street I open the copy of the stranger which was Seattle's Weekly Magazine their Club rag that are Chantry was actually our director of for like 20 years and they had to speak spread on kozik and Coupe and Jeff kleinsmith and I got him Pablo who doesn't do it anymore and they were color and I was like holy shit the posters back you know and I was like I need to learn how to screen print now and so I went on campus I had a graduated this point but they had a place on campus called Craft Center and they had all this like screen equipment right the screens are all saggy and shit but it was enough to start they worked and so I took my black and white posters and on my own dime with nobody asked
00:27:47how to start making color once and it was a pain in the ass but I just started printing my own posters in color which lead to getting jobs that we're supposed to be in color you know people like all you can do color posters now and you know like and so it's it's very much sort of a bootstraps DIY kind of thing to just start fucking making them and you know it always say like
00:28:12design what it is you want to be designing you know I mean like if your job is designing websites I know you're making this website's nobody's ever going to hire you to do a logo so don't complain about not doing logos like start making logos in your in your spare time for whoever or yourself and the great thing is now you have the internet to leverage I wish I didn't have you know I was working purely with in Eugene I wasn't even working in Portland at that point because Portland was 2 hours away so I started making stuff and spreading it around and I grew it from there and it's even easier and I'm in the project for the X Games and it's a really big project doing doing merchandising designs for the X Games and I was talking to the art director there who hired me and he's like yeah we got you and we got this other guy and he sent me a screenshot of his desktop because he had something you want to show me right and I saw there were two folders dance styles and some other guy and I'm like that's the other guy I'm a look up who that is you know so I can
00:29:12internet and I look him up and it turns out this is like 26 year old kid from like a Ukraine or something and I've seen his work I'm like found you know if I had totally seen his work and he was like this young ass kid a couple years out of art school but because of the internet and because he was doing this crazy geometric shit that obviously this art director liked I liked it you probably seen it in like it enough he called him up in the Ukraine was a guy I would like to work for the X Games so that's that's the kind of thing you can do now because you can leverage the internet if you make good work and you get it out there
00:29:48who knows who sings one thing leads to another who knows who's going to come knocking and it's so easy to do now I mean I don't I don't mark it myself I don't even know how to Market my so I do what I wish I could I wish there was a way that I could go to these companies in and say Hey you know you want to hire me but they they call you when I need you that's how it works so you just got to kind of stay on their radar by you know keep keep fresh new stuff out there in circulation on the blogs and you know and so just start making shit you know don't you stop watching TV and watch TV at night you know the TV off and makes it what kind of things do you do to stay on people's radar like I said I just tried it I try to release good stuff I mean I have by my Instagram feed is purely art like I don't there's no pictures of my daughter kids are you know sunset surf yoga or whatever on there I mean it's just I don't you hate that you like somebody something like this great stuff and then there's some yoga shot you know keep your you know if you want a personal one do a personal loan but if you have
00:30:48your art blog your art whatever should be about your are purely so I guess I don't do a lot of social media I do I do Instagram I have a Facebook page you know but and then a lot of it is like
00:31:03did like you honestly you know other people see it people who are in these these media positions blogs people who have you know a podcast people who have other interest in the graphical World it will then take it out and kind of make it a little bigger spread it around it's very is it for lack of better words very organic but I think my job in this is to produce good work regularly and then hope it lands in the right you know it's it's that if that whole thing with the Wicked Witch of the West in a flyby prettiest fly and I like that's what I'm doing I'm just sitting here at my window open like shoveling all this crap out and hoping and land somewhere you just mentioned up all grushkin who are your other any other people that you look up to my work and sorry it's just keep on pranking at work it moves around
00:31:58I always have fresh a new interests I mean there are the classics you know there's everybody loves Saul bass everybody loves Paul Rand everybody loves that I have a very sweet spot in my heart for the modernist. Because of the big simple highly conceptual work they did but you know there was a certain point in my life where I was really into art deco and so I moved it was it was a big player cuz I really loved his way he drew women in the way he did those crazy background when way too much detail and Raymond. Of my life I've had you know James Flora Jim Phillips you know I mean I could sit here all night does naming off and sometimes it's like random shit like just go you'll go to Tokyo and look around and look at all those crazy cartoon characters that they have smeared all over everything I don't know who did any of those but they're all awesome you know so you know I think it's like keep your eyes open and keep looking for good work and if you find something you like it's really easy and I mean cuz I have this
00:32:58does massive book collection I see part of yours behind you and it that you that used to be how I got my stuff was like I would I would go to the bookstore and be like all right this is a great book take it home and I would like digested like I know every image in every book in my my design Library have a couple thousand bucks and I know all of them but now the internet I actually have a folder on my desktop or if I bump into an image I like you know I'll like Google it see who did it look at the rest of their work in and it's it's really easy to do now just like with music or anything else to get to really get out there and dig in and look around so and yeah there's there's people who I do are
00:33:40near and dear to me like the Pixies or whatever like they're going to be there going to be a band and they're going to be with me forever but then there's also just constantly you know I look at my Instagram feed like that's just amazing it's always coming at you right now you just got to be open to it now. I don't know who said it but they say good in good out you know like you always got to keep fresh it coming in so you keep fresh stuff coming out
00:34:05you said that you work best at night what's your what's your what's your sort of sweet spot I have kids and they kind of jacked up a program as far as my sweet spot because I'm it I'm a nice guy like I I love staying up till 3 or 4 in the morning and then in the not not doing shit until like 10 a.m. the next day that's just that is where I that's my sweet spot and I mean like I don't I would kind of ignore the morning hours of the next day get up get a cup of coffee and then you know start poking around 10 or 11 or noon if I could but now I got to get up at 8:30 so I can I get up it at 7 in the morning do the whole grown-up thing maybe go to the gym or whatever and I don't work but I still kind of start work at like
00:34:529:30 10:00 I know cuz I'm just doing other stuff I'm not sleeping but I'm doing other stuff and then I during the day there's a lot more it's a lot more broken up there's a lot of emailing and phone calling oftentimes a project will be past the creative part where there's a lot of production going on I got to work on a book cover like coming up with the idea and the initial drawing for the book cover is very different than doing the refined men's what's the back cover look like what are the flaps look like like that's a lot more mechanical in a lot more production-oriented than that initial kernel of a concept and that you had to let grow into this piece of art and stuff that happens late at night so you know I like 3 or 4 you go get the kids and feed them dinner you do the whole you know evening routine and then by about 9 I go back to work
00:35:46so from 9 a.m. to like 1 a.m. or 9 p.m.
00:35:53yeah 9 p.m. to 1 a.m. is kind of the event the second shift
00:35:57you're practically working all all day long yeah we know before I had kids I just did it I just designed that whole time and I got a lot more sleep and I'm sure I'll get back to that mean the kids are getting older and and they're way more self-sufficient now so I don't need to be on top of them all the time so you know I'm sure things will feel kind of go back to the old deal program at some point here yeah I know I mean there's a certain point like
00:36:25you know you meet somebody who's the my age and they have kids and and your kind of threading the eye of the needle at this point like it's this is where the shit hits and down a little bit little later but you know which appeared book out of the men that use visual book book do you recommend a big fan of the classics so might my answer to that is usually Moby Dick big Melville fan and I'm Bartleby the scrivener that kind of stuff as far as visual books are two sets of shelves what you can't see what over there is like the big part of his I'll ever be over here is like a short list like he's the one that I keep close to my desk some of my favorites are actually books about
00:37:17I see I see a little bit of them may I see some of them there
00:37:22yeah why is this a big monitor so I can't keep it down but that's cool that's cool
00:37:30Beaver saying I've got a couple over here that are that are I think you should design for me is is
00:37:37it has the exuberant weirdness of polish design because they were definitely drafting over after what the Polish designers were doing but it's got this it's got its own Latin
00:37:50communist flavor that I just act like there's nothing like it and and so you know those are the books I will just thumbing through these books millions of times but I'll still just sit there and just flip the pages by Pompano new book of Cuban poster design that I don't have but I've already seen half of what's in it I'll still buy it for the other half of stuff that I haven't seen because there's so much stuff down there and it's not particularly well documented because they weren't behind him not to actually the Iron Curtain but they were behind their own Serta version of the Iron Curtain for so many years that that there's still stuff coming out of there even as an Aficionado of that design but I haven't seen so it's always really exciting to bump into a new blog or a new a new book or or anything where I can see more of it cuz it's it's it's just always always seen before is always exciting so those are my favorite design books
00:38:45to wrap it up here if there is one piece of guys that you would give to someone who is in any point of their career whether they're beginning whether they're in the middle of their career or even veterans what what would you say
00:39:00but I think I said it's really but I think it's really important to do work or you are a hundred percent in Creative control
00:39:07you should always have personal projects going even if you don't know where they're going or it's something that you don't even know how to do like you going to learn how to do watercolors great go start doing watercolors because it is one thing leads to another is so true I mean truly you don't know what's going to happen with that you know I really got interested for a little while back in Motion Graphics so I started you know I just started learning Motion Graphics right and then I get a phone call because I do a lot of character design and storyboards promotion and Sammy said hey do you do do motion yourself I'm like well as a matter fact I do you know and so you never know where you can start to take these interests that you build and start to push him in there and it could be I mean even if it's if it's like not design-related you really like old cars you know so go work in an old car in the week and you never know how you might be able to get those two to me know you had a car show in the guys from Car and Driver magazine her like a weenie designer you know I mean it's it's I think it's really important to do work that's unfettered by a
00:40:07Mayans that's that's really just yours and yours alone to take where you want to take it and it's it's up to you to decide when it's done and when it's good and then you know if you don't like it never has to see the light of day but I think it's important to always be doing that and it's only have to remind myself it's really easy to get busy and only concentrate on on paid client work and you can spend your whole life doing that I mean there are guys and women working at agencies who are designers who abuse at the mountain just said like design something of your own they wouldn't even know what to do you know because they're so
00:40:43they're so used to kind of being told what to design so that they have the skills but they're their brain is kind of atrophied and I think your brain is really your biggest asset in this because I mean yeah you need some skills in order to make stuff look right because that's what we do for a living but but the real
00:41:01the real core of what we do is we come up with ideas you know and so you need to come to the ideas and express those ideas
00:41:09in fresh ways an interesting ways I mean that's that's I think that's our biggest value it's not that we know how to use illustrator and Photoshop is that we know how to come up with creative stuff and then express it through illustrator and Photoshop
00:41:22that's our biggest valley I love that
00:41:25well Dad you rock man thank you so much for being on the show and yeah man I hope so I hope many people really get a lot out of everything you said because this is all just kept me quiet man you said I love it I love it. Design and it's it's my passion always has been I didn't I didn't realize that little kid but it's so you know it took me 25 years to figure out the vet graphic design was a thing you could do for a living but it was always there
00:42:09so badass man thank you man appreciate it thanks
00:42:17that was dance styles you can check out his work by visiting his website at Dan you can also follow him on Instagram at damn Styles d a n s t i l e s
00:42:36i want to take a moment to thank you for listening to the show today marks my hundredth pencil vs. pixel interview and it means a lot to know that artists and designers and creative professionals from all over the world and many career backgrounds have given their time and attention to the show
00:42:57pencil vs. pixel began as a small project a personal project and I talked to and learned from a hundred incredible commercial artists from big-budget film directors to business owners to illustrators designers in nanometers developers Publishers and artist to make powerful powerful artwork I want to thank each and every guest on the show for carving some time out of their busy schedules to talk on a obscure podcast and most importantly I want to thank you for sticking around for listening for asking questions for being part of this journey thank you
00:43:40this is not a goodbye but I am tapping the brakes on publishing new podcast episodes in the foreseeable future so it may or may not come back I don't know
00:43:52but what I do know is that the podcast has been instrumental in really making a change in the way I think about things and really made a huge impact in my life my career most importantly to find what I want to focus on more
00:44:07I also hope that it helps you to find
00:44:10what you do and what you want to do put your work out there Frank out as much as you possibly can on practice because it is important
00:44:20until we meet again keep on building keep on making and keep sharing xr1

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