TRANSCRIPT 🔗
Megan Devito: My guest today is Rick Ferrant. He is a former journalist, an author, and at age 70, he accidentally became a competitive power lifter. Rick, welcome. Tell us about who you are.
Rick Farrant: I'm Rick Farron. I was a longtime journalist. I'm a published author. I have dabbled in and out throughout the years as a marketing professional, which I'm still doing some marketing work and also working on my first fiction novel because everything that I published before has been nonfiction. and during my journalism career, a lot of the positions I held were in management. Which I think probably suits this podcast because there was a lot of performance mindset involved in that. but also about four years ago I took up powerlifting quite by accident. it was I was not I've never been naturally strong. it was I started out Just trying to get in shape because I was moving into my seventies and thought that would be a good idea. And then it accidentally graduated into competitive power lifting. And I did quite well, surprisingly enough.
Megan Devito: Mm-hmm. People don't generally just decide to be powerlifters later on in life, which is very awesome. I think that's cool. And what? So what was happening when you're like, you know what? Powerlifting. I think that's it for me. What how did that happen?
Rick Farrant: Well, as I said I said it w you know, it was accidental. I I I was every once in a while go to the gym kind of person. if the reps got too hard I stopped. if I got home from work and didn't feel like going to the gym, I didn't go. and so I
Megan Devito: Right.
Rick Farrant: was given information about a a an unbelievable trainer So I called her up. She asked me if I was serious about it. A short time after that phone call that said this, I'll never forget it. It said, I'm going to condition you before I break you.
Megan Devito: I think I was joking.
Rick Farrant: Well, I I'll tell you the first six months that we worked out was brutal. but I committed myself to it and I made it if not a top priority, pretty close to the top. so I showed up for every training session, I think one of the best slogans that's ever been developed is the Nike slogan, just do it.
Megan Devito: Yeah.
Rick Farrant: but you talk about anxiety. in my late twenties I was diagnosed with a panic disorder. And it was awful. Panic decks are awful. They're
Megan Devito: Mm-hmm. awful. Mm-hmm.
Rick Farrant: You think you're dying. And so I was on medication for a while. I don't know where it comes from. But my whole thing with the you know, with the panic disorder was I don't want to be on drugs the rest of my life. So I have to figure this out.
Megan Devito: Mm-hmm.
Rick Farrant: Like how can I how can I make it so that I don't have any more panic disorders? And so over a number of years, took me years, I sort of developed this routine of knowing when I might be on the verge of having one and doing things that would prevent me from doing it. And over time it became automatic. So I haven't had I haven't had a panic attack in like, I don't know, forty years, whatever. fifty years I d yeah. I just
Megan Devito: Right.
Rick Farrant: I don't know any other way other than to go after if I commit myself. What's not okay is not to try. That's not okay.
Megan Devito: Mm-hmm.
Rick Farrant: So we have all of these negative thoughts that can go into our head. Like we can say, Okay, there's always going to be somebody that's smarter than me. There's always gonna be somebody that's stronger than me. I'm not really that good. Well, you know, that's if s as human beings, we have a great capacity. For throwing a lot of negative stuff into the forefront of our brain, which prevents us from performing or prevents us from being successful. So I kind of applied that and said, okay, I'm gonna go with the process and I'm just gonna do it. And so we had dabbled a little bit with powerlifting, which is basically deadlifting and squat and bench. And my trainer said, Well, there are a few of us that are gonna go down to Columbus, Ohio, we're gonna be in a competition, you should come. I thought, okay, I'll I'll go s I'll go see what this is all about. And I guess luckily in my age and weight division I won, which propelled me into okay, let's see what else I can do. And that's how the whole the whole journey started.
Megan Devito: Show it. That phrase, I love that you mentioned that. I a while back, not too long ago, I did a second podcast interview with a woman who lives out in BC and she is an ultra marathoner. I mean, she runs ridiculous amount of miles. And the previous episode that she was on, she talked about she was out preparing for a triathlon. She's riding her bike and she got hit by a truck, and she's in the hospital with A broken neck, like in a halo and all this. And her doctors are like, No, you're you're you're dying, you're not gonna do this anymore. And one of the things she said was kind of very similar to what you said. She said she was laying in the hospital bed just thinking, you know, I wonder how far I could actually run with this thing on. I was like, That is a terrible idea. What are you doing? But it's interesting that you both doing these like really high endurance, like it takes a lot of brain power to get yourself into that place to say, Huh, wonder what I can do.
Rick Farrant: Well well it's it's you know, I I have I have another thing that I think I've and I I didn't realize that I had lived by this my whole life because long life I'm seventy-three. I mean, frankly, who does this stuff at seventy-three? But kind of crazy. I've kind of had a what if mentality. So the what if mentality is what if I tried this? What if I committed myself to this? Let's see what happens.
Megan Devito: I love it.
Rick Farrant: And a lot of people don't get to the what if. A lot of people get to the I can't, or a lot of people say that's ridiculous, or a lot of people say that's impossible. I kind of have a what if. And then
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the other thing I think, and these are things really that I've thought about in the last five years in this journey. There was there was the quote from Roosevelt that said, There's nothing to fear but fear itself. That is so true, right? And so then I look back on my life and I realize that the way I have confronted fears is by confronting them. To not shirk away from them. So I many years ago I did not like flying, wasn't particularly fond of heights. So I took up skydiving, right? Which which is an in your face. I'm confronting this fear. Okay. And it worked. I mean, it really did. It was i and it was actually a a glorious experience. So and then I love animals.
Megan Devito: Wow.
Rick Farrant: I've gotten along with animals really well. But again, a number of years ago, one of the animals that I feared were raptors, birds of prey, because basically they're killing machines. So I became a raptor rehabber. I confronted the fear. and no, they were not any less dangerous than I thought they were. They're still dangerous, but just confronting that gave me sort of an acclamation to learning.
Megan Devito: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rick Farrant: not only about the animals, but how to interact with the animals. there's another fear thing that came into my power lifting two years ago in the middle of this, and I'm competing and I'm winning. I've I've won on the international stage and the national stage. On on a lift in the gym, I tore both of my hamstrings at the same time. I've had many injuries. It that was the most painful, debilitating injury, injuries I've ever had. And they were making bets at the gym and they were saying he's never coming back. Mine was, and this this is not a quote you will see anywhere, but this is another thing that that kind of drives me. It's a hell no mentality. Because you have you have two ways to to go at this. You can shrink from it.
Megan Devito: Yeah.
Rick Farrant: You can go south, you cannot do anything, it's all done, or you can say no. And so in my head, I'm going, not only am I gonna come back, I'm gonna come back better than I was before. I went I went back in the gym, worked really hard, and got a PR in the squat, the same, you know, the same thing that that got me injured. But there was a whole psychological thing to that. The psychological was almost worse than the, you know, than the actual physical recovery. Because every time I'm sure a lot of athletes go through this, they tear their ACL and they're not really sure whether that knee is going to hold up or not. That psychological is is a tough thing to get through because every time I went down in the squat, what was in the forefront of my brain was, don't give up on me now.
Megan Devito: Mm. one of the things we know with a lot of people, you can use what if. What if I just tried it? What if it works out? What if I could actually do that? What if I stuck with it? Or you can do it like, whoa, what if I hurt myself? What if everybody laughs at me? What if they think I'm crazy? What if I can't do this? What if I But you're using it for yourself. Has that always been like, do you feel like that's always been your way of looking at things? Or did you have to learn that? Like, what was that like? I grew up with like a lot of anxiety and like terrifying thoughts, right? So my what ifs were always pretty self protective but also terrifying. but yours weren't. Yours were different. I think a lot of people hear what if and they're like, yeah, what if that happened? But what if that happened?
Rick Farrant: Well, my what if was in a positive frame. It wasn't in there. It was like it was not like what if I get hurt or what if I And and maybe I do well and maybe I don't, but I don't know what I'm gonna do unless I unless I go for it.
Megan Devito: Yeah, very much so.
Rick Farrant: I have learned something along the way about succeeding, that there is generally speaking, there is a science to everything. So in writing, I used to tell writers there is a science to writing. You study other writers and you see what works and what doesn't work. And there are a lot of writers that that kind of balk at that because they say, well, I'm gonna be creative. I'm gonna be my own writer. I'm gonna write the way I want. Well you still can within the science, but know the science. What you know, what transitions work, what kind of phrasing works, what kind of story arc works. It makes sense to study it. Well there's the same thing with powerlifting. The real key to powerlifting, especially for someone who's not naturally strong, is form and technique.
Megan Devito: Mm-hmm.
Rick Farrant: Form and technique will allow you to lift more than you ever thought you could lift. So I think another thing is is you know, pay attention to the science of things that you do, but you can you can you can still be your own person. but you do need to follow that science. So a lot of times you'll see in the gym, you'll see a lot of power lifters, they have a camera in there. They're really studying the science of lifting.
Megan Devito: Yeah, and there's so much curiosity in everything that you're saying. It's from the what if, like, what if I could do that? Maybe I'll just try this. Let's see what happens. But then also with the curiosity, like using that science with curiosity as well, being able to say, okay, well, I can see here, maybe if I shifted my hips this way or I moved my body this way, that would make a difference. And letting that do that. But I think that that curiosity is so important in so many different things. Do you feel like this is something that people are born with this curiosity or this is something that's developed during your life? I feel like curiosity can be contagious, that we can teach people to be curious, that we can say how we can even use the idea of, I mean, whether we're talking about moving from an anxiety situation where it sounds like you and I both have a very similar story on, hey, we can actually figure out
how to not do this.
Rick Farrant: Yeah.
Megan Devito: But it does come with a willingness to be uncomfortable and being curious.
Rick Farrant: You know, I think well, that's a really that's an interesting question. Can you teach curiosity? I'm not sure you can teach it, but I think you can encourage it, if that if that makes sense. I think there are some people that are naturally not curious. I've I've met many of them, and it's always shocking to me that
Megan Devito: Mm, mm-hmm. Yes.
Rick Farrant: They're not interested in how something works, or they're not interested in history, or they're not interested in whatever. They just go through their life, accept everything as it is, aren't really interested in being lifelong learners, aren't really interested in this one shot we have at life and trying to get, you know, inhale all of it and get as much out of it as we possibly can. I don't know that you can teach people that, but I think you can encourage them.
Megan Devito: Mm-hmm.
Rick Farrant: to consider it and then and then it's up to them. And then there's there's another there's a lot of you know that you you were a swimmer, there are a lot of aspects to this. Passion is like critical, right? So if somebody doesn't have a passion for something, really hard to succeed. Right? How do you how do you how do you succeed without passion? So how do you succeed without curiosity, without passion, without determination?
Megan Devito: Yeah.
Rick Farrant: And how do you get out of your head? Like that's right. That's that's like another big thing. I I attend a lot of basketball games, college basketball games, including the women's team for Purdue Fort Wayne, here where where I live. and I I was I've talked several times to one of the players who she's from Croatia.
Megan Devito: Mm.
Rick Farrant: And I could see on the court, I mean she's a very good athlete and and she's had a lot of success, but I could see on the court when she was taking three point shots, I could see the doubt. I could actually feel I could actually feel the doubt. So the first conversation we said, I said, Hey Nika, you know, you you you've got to get out of your head. And she just nodded. She like agreed, right? So
Megan Devito: Yes I do.
Rick Farrant: Right. So so when you are taking that shot, if you have one ounce of of doubt, you're done. So if if a person's put in the work, whether they're an executive or whatever, you put in the work, all the groundwork is laid. Now it's time for you to to perform. You gotta get you gotta get rid of all those negative thoughts that want to get into our heads and just do it. And so applying it to like say a deadlift. If I get down to do a deadlift, I don't know why he I don't know why n human beings have all these negative thoughts. I really don't, but we're just so prone to it. If I get down on a deadlift on a maybe a weight that I've never done before.
Megan Devito: Uh-huh.
Rick Farrant: And in my in the forefront of my head, these are things that I hear. you've never done this before. This is like a lot of weight. I don't know. I I don't know if I can do this. You're toast. You're absolute toast, right? So you have to you have to flip that And in my sense, again, not a quote anyone will do. Hell no. And what hell no means is hell no, the weight's not gonna get me. And if I just have if I have those two thoughts in my head, I'm probably gonna succeed.
Megan Devito: to the point of the girl who's playing basketball and she's like, Yeah, I know I need to get out of my head, but our mind generates all of these like negative thoughts because we only have the past to look at as a reference point. Right? We haven't done that yet. And it's very protective. And I used to years ago when I was coaching more on anxiety, I was talking about like if you imagine a very, very dramatic teenage girl caveman in your brain telling you all the worst things and screaming at you with all this emotion, it's doing everything it can to make sure you don't get hurt or embarrassed or locked out of the cave in the middle of winter or fall off the cliff and die. And it's so dramatic that we we tend to because it creates so many feelings in our body of like, this is really uncomfortable. We just believe it. We just believe it. But you have this comeback and you have this way of being able to say, whoo, that's really uncomfortable. Let's see what happens.
Rick Farrant: do it. And but also y if you put the work in, w and regardless of what you're doing, if you put the work in, if you've studied things, if you've you know then you really th none of that none of those negative things need to be in there. Now one thing other thing I'll tell you, this is like a little crazy trick that I played. I mean, I was a journalist, so I've written millions, millions of stories and millions of words over three plus decades. but when I started saying, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna write a book, it was so daunting because you can go into a bookstore, you can pick any book off the shelf, you have no idea who the author is, and you start reading it and you go, my gosh, this this is a great writer. I've never heard of this person, right? So what gets into your head, okay, man. You suck. Here's a here's a writer who probably hasn't sold a lot of books and they are spectacular. So I had an experience that helped me get over negative thoughts because writer's block is a lot like block you have for everything else. Here are the blocks. The blocks are I'm not any good, nobody cares, no one will read it. It will never make any money. I mean, there's all of these blocks that that that hit you squarely in the face.
Megan Devito: Mm-hmm.
Rick Farrant: And that's why you have a lot of people who wanted to be writers or novelists, and they never write one ever. They start, they stop. They start, they stop, they give up. Too many negative thoughts. Well, here's what changed it for me. And this is kind of like reverse psychology. I'm not sure
this is something that would work for everyone. I'm not even sure it's a good idea. I walked in I walked into a bookstore. This is many, many, many, many years ago. I walked into a bookstore.
Megan Devito: Might.
Rick Farrant: Big double doors. And this was the thought. There's a lot of crap in here. I can write crap.
Megan Devito: I like that. See, that's the kind of stuff that works for me.
Rick Farrant: And and all of my negative thoughts, all of my fears went away. It didn't mean I wasn't gonna work really hard to write something that was good, but it kind of brought it to a level where I didn't have so much anxiety about it.
Megan Devito: A great recommendation, especially for people who think that they can't do it because it won't be perfect. And that's something that when I'm coaching people comes up so often. Well, I mean, I was I was gonna put it out there, but it wasn't perfect yet. And I'm like, well, how about you tell me what perfect is? And then we'll see if it's perfect, because my perfect certainly probably isn't the same as your perfect or anyone else's perfect. But we have this idea. But if everybody could just look at it as I'm gonna do what I can do, and you know what? If it's crap, it's crap.
Rick Farrant: just go for it and see what happens.
Megan Devito: It's like failing with flair. I'm gonna do this so spectacularly that yeah, if I'm gonna fail, I'm gonna do this something. This is gonna be the best fail you've ever seen. Yeah. Yeah.
Rick Farrant: Yeah, yeah. I like that. I have to I have to I have to I have to remember that one failing with flair. I'll have to use I'll have to use that with my gym mates. but you know the other thing about failure, which I think I mean obviously you know, failure's part of it. Failure's failure doesn't mean you quit. It's part it's part of the growth process. And you know
Megan Devito: PUM!
Rick Farrant: No peop no basketball player has has a perfect percentage at three point range. None. I mean look look at all the athletes. No executive hits pay dirt on every initiative that they start or try to do. Failure's part of the whole process.
Megan Devito: Yeah, it is, and that's how we learn and how we grow.
Rick Farrant: So it's been it's been a great journey. I do need to find I need to find some other things to kind of like, you know, finish out my life. I don't know what they're gonna be. But what I do know I what I do know is I do know that if if if I make a decision and set my mind to doing something, I'm gonna go all the way or try to go all the way.
Megan Devito: I love the word decide. It's very, it's in or out. It's like I'm gonna do it or I'm not.
Rick Farrant: It is.
Megan Devito: So on those days when it's really hard or when you have those thoughts about like, gosh, I'm just not sure I'm ever gonna get
Rick Farrant: Well, it is a process. It doesn't necessarily happen overnight, but I but I but I it's a commitment, right? And you know, commit, don't quit. And if you make a commitment to something, a hard and fast commitment, and sometimes you have to do it blindly, I think that's I think that's I think it's as simple as that because I think that people too easily give up when they come across a hurdle, right? And it's really easy to do that. You know, we we have a great facility for for quitting. when when things don't work out well, we also are very impatient, right? It's I'm impatient, right? Like we want success to come quickly. Right.
Megan Devito: me too. Right.
Rick Farrant: Right, and and and lots of things you talk about. I talk to young people today, you know, and they want to be CEO tomorrow, and I have to say to them, you you gotta it you gotta go through the process. There are steps to this. Like you can't just go from here to here, you know, in six months. So it it's really made it's really making a commitment. But then I think the other thing about it is is having a passion for something. And You can't tea that you can't teach. You can't teach passion. If you have a passion, if you have a vision for something that you want to do. I I guess all I would say is, man, keep doing it. Keep going for it. You know, there are t another example. There are tons of unbelievable musicians in the world. Unbelievable musicians. And you know where some of them are playing right now? They're playing on street corners in Nashville. They haven't gotten their break yet, right? There are tons of great art actors. And you know what they're doing? They're driving Ubers in Los Angeles. They have not gotten their break yet, right? The ones who succeed generally or have a better chance are the ones who keep doing it. If it's their passion to act, their passion to play guitar, their passion to do a painting, they keep doing it. Now Will all of them be stars? Nope.
Megan Devito: Mm-hmm.
Rick Farrant: But none of them will be stars if they don't keep doing it.
Megan Devito: And if they love what they're doing along the way, maybe it's joy, maybe it's not an Emmy or whatever. Yeah.
Rick Farrant: Yeah. So so I just think I just think the other thing I will say is there are people, there are always gonna be people that don't have the passion, don't have the dedication, do not commit, kind of like you can't lead a horse to water. And that's just a that's just the reality of that. but hopefully hopefully people like yourself can light a spark in folks. and and maybe some certain percentage of the people that you work with, that spark transcends into, you know, doing doing what they need to do. I know one of the one of the unintended consequences of the power lifting journey that I've been on is it's actually inspired other people. And that was not my intent at all. In fact, I didn't even that I that wasn't even I didn't even think about that. But In my own gym, which is just filled with stellar power power lifters. We got national champions, world champions, young kids, because I can say they're young, 20s, they'll say, I want to be
doing I want to be able to do what you're doing when I'm your age. Or I went home and I told my father, who just sits on the couch that he needs to get in the gym and he needs to start doing this. Or if I go to
Megan Devito: I love it
Rick Farrant: competitions, I actually have people come up to me, maybe they're in their fifties, maybe they're in their sixties, and they'll say, You just inspired me to get back in the gym. So that was one of the unintended consequences of it, which is saying, Yeah, you know, you know, maybe maybe you are you don't become a power lifter, but you can become stronger. My health history is another thing that really could have stopped me. I was determined to not to not have it stop me. I've had two heart attacks and so one was at 45, one was at 59, and I had an aortic aneurysm six years ago, seven years ago. So basically I'm an erector set of stents in here. Stents. Yeah, I'm like kind of like bionic.
Megan Devito: Cash. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rick Farrant: so you would think that the last thing that somebody with that history would do would be like, you know, lifting hundreds of pounds of weight, right? Doesn't doesn't sound really good. So my doctors, because cause I'm checked, once a year. I said, is it safe for me to be doing what I'm doing? This of course is after I had done it and won some championships. And they go.
Megan Devito: Because I already did.
Rick Farrant: We don't know. We're in uncharted territory here. But if you like doing what you're doing, go ahead and do it. So I'm kind of like in this this uncharted territory thing with with the medical profession because they they've I guess they've never really had somebody that has the history that I have that's like going out and doing this stuff. but you know what's what what's the alternative, Megan? And sit on the couch, do nothing.
Megan Devito: Yeah.
Rick Farrant: kind of let yourself go to waste because you're worried about, my God, what if the stent breaks, or you know, what if something goes wrong medically? Or go for it, live your life, challenge yourself, challenge however you are compromised.
Megan Devito: there are two things that I do not want to carry with me, regret and guilt. And carrying around regret at any point in your life, like I should have done this back when whenever that was, whether it was when I was a kid or a teenager, an adult, whenever that is in your life. Looking back and being like, I can't believe I didn't do that. Just close your eyes and jump. because at some point you're going to look back and say, I can't believe I didn't do that. I can't believe that I passed that up. What if nothing happens? Or what if you don't go? How are you gonna feel if you don't go? And it it's true, like, how are you gonna feel if you don't do it? How are you gonna feel on the other side? You might feel better for a minute in the long run. If you don't do it, you're not gonna feel you're gonna feel
Rick Farrant: That's just one way I confront fears
is just by going straight at it. And and it I mean it helps me.
Megan Devito: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So when you're not rehabbing birds and power lifting, what is your day job?
Rick Farrant: So I I have two contract jobs. Like my I gave up my full time job about a a year and a half ago, which was with Northeast Indiana Works, which is a workforce development organization in the region, which there was another one I never thought I'd be involved in workforce development, but I was doing marketing for them. I'm still doing some stuff for Northeast Indiana Works, but it's on a contract basis. It's not a lot of hours. And then I'm also doing marketing work for Fort Way Marketing and Marketing the Midwest, two to joined and you know about them. they're they're they're both basically the same well, they're the same companies, except Marketing the Midwest focuses mostly on economic and workforce development. and Fort Way Marketing is a little bit broader in what in what it deals with. So I keep myself busy doing that. I
Megan Devito: You have such good stories to share.
Rick Farrant: Well, I I do I mean I do. I I mean, thank you. But I do I have a lifetime a lifetime well, no, because I do. I look back on my life. I I've inhaled the life and and I've done a lot of interesting things. I've met a ton of interesting people. and I think that's been I think that's been very helpful to me, in the things that I've done. But I also do have a natural we're g getting back to what you talked about, a natural curiosity. If I have a passion for something, I I
Megan Devito: You do. Yeah.
Rick Farrant: tend to really go for it. and who knows, right? If you don't go for it, you don't know. If you go for it, maybe something magical happens.
Megan Devito: So what do we find out?
Rick Farrant: Ha ha ha
Megan Devito: Right? It's the only way we find out. If you you cannot if if you think it's actually gonna happen, you you you gotta go for it. Very rarely does something just fall on our lap. At least not without going for it a little bit.
Rick Farrant: Yeah. Yeah. And I would say the same. Well, I would say the same thing to you. Whatever you do, wherever you go, whatever your passion is, however you envision your dream, you know, just just keep at it, keep going for it, keep looking for ways to to make it happen. and who knows? You know, I think what I think what you do is is really, really important, Megan. And I think it's no, I really do. This whole mindset thing, I mean you call it performance mindset, but it could also it could also just be called mindset, right? Mindset mindset generally is is what makes the difference. How do we how do we view something? How do we view ourselves? How do we get over the negativity? How do we just, you know, forge ahead
Megan Devito: Thank you. Right, for sure.
Rick Farrant: with as much optimism as possible and and see what happens. And you know, in my case, getting books published. That was that was a big deal. doing what I what I've done in the gym that and so so unexpected. I just I I have to reinforce this. I am I was not naturally strong. Not I wasn't weak, but I was not naturally strong. So what a surprise, right?
Megan Devito: Such a good surprise. Yeah. Yeah. What a great surprise, though. And that people are like, my gosh, you're amazing. Young kids that are like, I want to be, but they are. They're looking at you like I wanna be able to do what you're doing. They're that's amazing to them. It's amazing to me. I think that's fantastic.
Rick Farrant: And and I will say i it is fantastic. It's also hard to hear too, right? And so I think we have to give ourselves grace. you do have to do a little bit of work on accepting it, right? You know, it's like
Megan Devito: It can be awkward, yeah.
Rick Farrant: It can like, Well thank you thank thank you very much. I I wish you well on your journey. I hope that you know, I hope that things turn out really well for you. But you know, but thank you. Yeah, it's a little it's a little awkward, right?
Megan Devito: Yeah, like thank you. Yes. Yeah, and there's a whole process in that mindset work where it's like, it's okay for you to say thank you and not tell everybody why it's not true, or like, that little thing, thank you. Period.
Rick Farrant: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I know some people they see they seek the limelight for the limelight. I don't. I think it's wise not to. If limelight comes, that's wonderful. But just do it because you love it.
Megan Devito: I love that. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us.
Rick Farrant: Yeah, you're welcome. It was great, Megan.
Megan Devito: It was great. I love talking with you.