Full Transcript for S04 EP28: Tom Craine

podcasts. Talk about doing too many podcasts. 83 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:54.639 One of our podcasts nearly didn't go up, did it? 84 00:03:54.650 --> 00:03:56.129 Didn't nearly go onto the internet. 85 00:03:56.150 --> 00:03:56.229 Yeah. 86 00:03:56.750 --> 00:03:58.210 And this is the reason why. 87 00:03:58.219 --> 00:04:00.030 It was the one when we were announcing our book. 88 00:04:00.210 --> 00:04:02.349 So we had like... Because when you announce a book, 89 00:04:02.409 --> 00:04:05.330 it's like there's all these timed things. Because obviously there's 90 00:04:05.370 --> 00:04:08.150 a press release and there's when you... All that kind 91 00:04:08.189 --> 00:04:08.490 of stuff. 92 00:04:08.509 --> 00:04:10.150 You were quite stressed, but it doesn't really matter any 93 00:04:10.169 --> 00:04:10.409 of that. 94 00:04:10.490 --> 00:04:11.590 No, I know it doesn't. 95 00:04:11.750 --> 00:04:12.969 They just say, oh, we're going to announce a book 96 00:04:13.009 --> 00:04:15.189 at 10am. So it'd be good if the podcast is. 97 00:04:15.150 --> 00:04:15.750 Out before then. 98 00:04:15.789 --> 00:04:18.769 But like... I like things to be... I know. And 99 00:04:18.810 --> 00:04:20.850 to be honest, Rob, everyone's got fucking eight months to 100 00:04:20.889 --> 00:04:22.370 buy the book. So I don't know what the advantage 101 00:04:22.410 --> 00:04:24.490 of 10am versus 8am is. 102 00:04:24.509 --> 00:04:24.930 There's nothing. 103 00:04:24.949 --> 00:04:25.160 But it was. 104 00:04:25.649 --> 00:04:28.430 But you really, you messaged me loads, going, are you up? 105 00:04:28.649 --> 00:04:30.089 Are you up? I can't get through to Michael. The 106 00:04:30.129 --> 00:04:32.310 podcast isn't up. The book announcement's at 10 out of 107 00:04:32.329 --> 00:04:34.740 the book announcement. It's hardly like a new lockdown announcement. 108 00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:37.240 It's just a book site in eight months. You were 109 00:04:37.259 --> 00:04:38.339 like proper stressing. 110 00:04:40.519 --> 00:04:42.899 This is the bit. This is the low bit. Because 111 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:45.220 it was when Mike was stuck on holiday. Yeah. Still 112 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:47.720 stuck on holiday. And I thought, I've got to phone him. 113 00:04:47.860 --> 00:04:49.360 His phone is going to answer phone. 114 00:04:49.500 --> 00:04:51.920 Hang on, what time was this? He was in St Lucia. 115 00:04:51.939 --> 00:04:53.600 So he was in like American time. 116 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:54.779 So this was 7am UK time. 117 00:04:54.819 --> 00:04:57.120 See, that's the kind of holiday. This annoys me. 118 00:04:57.310 --> 00:04:58.939 That's the kind of holiday you have when you don't 119 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:01.889 have fucking kids. You go to St Lucia because it's 120 00:05:01.930 --> 00:05:05.089 only two flights, not four. And you're just there in 121 00:05:05.110 --> 00:05:08.009 St Lucia. He's like Simon Cowell on a jet ski 122 00:05:08.029 --> 00:05:08.649 and we're Jedward. 123 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:12.019 Absolute disgrace. Do you know what? What we're going to 124 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:15.189 find out in six years, like Jedward or someone like that, 125 00:05:15.569 --> 00:05:17.689 is that it turned out that St Lucia was billed 126 00:05:17.730 --> 00:05:19.970 back to us all along. Do you know what I mean? 127 00:05:19.990 --> 00:05:20.129 Yeah. 128 00:05:20.550 --> 00:05:23.329 He recorded one podcast there. The whole trip was claimed back. 129 00:05:24.889 --> 00:05:28.250 See you in court. Feel like the Sex Pistols. He'll 130 00:05:28.529 --> 00:05:29.970 own Rob Beckett, the identity of me. 131 00:05:29.990 --> 00:05:30.589 I wonder if. 132 00:05:32.060 --> 00:05:33.519 He'll be able to call my kids back. That's the 133 00:05:33.540 --> 00:05:35.480 only reason I don't say my kids' names, because Michael 134 00:05:35.500 --> 00:05:35.939 will own them. 135 00:05:38.949 --> 00:05:41.620 So I thought, I've got to get through to him 136 00:05:41.629 --> 00:05:44.240 because the podcast isn't up. And what can I do? 137 00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:45.959 I can't get through to his phone. So do you 138 00:05:45.980 --> 00:05:48.040 know what I did? I thought, I wonder if he's 139 00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:52.540 tagged himself in his location on Instagram. And he had. Oh, 140 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:55.680 you insta-stalked him? I went and, right, I follow him. 141 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:56.990 But he went through his posts. 142 00:05:57.290 --> 00:05:59.089 I didn't go back through two years. It was the 143 00:05:59.129 --> 00:06:01.689 most recent post was tagged with the hotel. So I 144 00:06:01.689 --> 00:06:05.250 then phoned the hotel. I'm like, could you put me 145 00:06:05.290 --> 00:06:07.209 through to Michael, please? Michael Martin. 146 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:10.850 What time is this, 5am? 147 00:06:11.589 --> 00:06:12.589 2am St Lucia time. 148 00:06:12.949 --> 00:06:15.170 2am, 2am St Lucia time. 149 00:06:15.230 --> 00:06:17.930 And they were like, we can't put you through, it's 2am. 150 00:06:17.990 --> 00:06:21.490 And I'm like, it's an emergency. 151 00:06:23.649 --> 00:06:25.899 Look, St Lucia, I don't know if you know, there's 152 00:06:25.939 --> 00:06:28.220 a book about parenting out, and there's not been many, 153 00:06:28.620 --> 00:06:30.839 and that's coming out in eight months. And if you 154 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:34.300 think that I'm going to promote a book on a 155 00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:35.800 podcast after 10am. 156 00:06:37.810 --> 00:06:38.939 You're a different planet, buddy. 157 00:06:38.949 --> 00:06:44.139 So they wouldn't let you get through, obviously, because they're 158 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:44.879 in a good hotel. 159 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:48.439 It's an emergency. 160 00:06:49.639 --> 00:06:50.959 Did they ask you what emergency? 161 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:54.509 No. And I thought, I can't make one up. You 162 00:06:54.529 --> 00:06:56.110 should have said,

I'm pregnant. I can't get through to 163 00:06:56.149 --> 00:06:59.269 Michael and go, just so you know, your house hasn't 164 00:06:59.290 --> 00:07:00.949 burned down, but I am through now, so could you 165 00:07:00.970 --> 00:07:01.970 pop that podcast up? 166 00:07:03.750 --> 00:07:06.149 We've got a book to sell, bitch. Wakey, wakey. 167 00:07:06.430 --> 00:07:10.040 So they said phone back at 5am solution time. 168 00:07:10.420 --> 00:07:12.360 I'd rather get woke up at 2am, wouldn't you? If 169 00:07:12.379 --> 00:07:14.259 you get woke up at 5am, you're up for the day. 170 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:17.399 If you get woken up at 2am, you can get 171 00:07:17.420 --> 00:07:17.939 back to sleep. 172 00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:21.160 So I phone up at 5am. Yeah, exactly. I phone 173 00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:22.040 up at 5am. 174 00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:23.620 Why do you care so much, Josh? 175 00:07:24.220 --> 00:07:26.579 Because when I get something in my head, I think, 176 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:28.360 this has got to be done. 177 00:07:30.180 --> 00:07:30.500 Or what? 178 00:07:30.660 --> 00:07:30.990 Or what? 179 00:07:31.259 --> 00:07:34.889 I don't know. I just care. I just care about 180 00:07:34.930 --> 00:07:35.610 the wrong things. 181 00:07:35.629 --> 00:07:36.110 No, no, no. 182 00:07:36.170 --> 00:07:37.930 It's good to care, but yeah. But you don't mind. 183 00:07:37.949 --> 00:07:38.689 You'd like a bit of admin. 184 00:07:38.870 --> 00:07:42.149 You haven't got much on. In between your podcast records, 185 00:07:42.290 --> 00:07:44.250 ring St Lucia about another podcast. 186 00:07:44.290 --> 00:07:46.910 Jesus Christ, what am I doing with my life? 187 00:07:46.930 --> 00:07:49.290 You're a bit too stressed, I think, mate. You need 188 00:07:49.310 --> 00:07:50.170 to be in St Lucia. 189 00:07:51.750 --> 00:07:52.949 Stop ringing, mate. 190 00:07:53.310 --> 00:07:55.709 Get going. Why aren't you there? 191 00:07:55.949 --> 00:07:57.709 Put me through and then put me in for two weeks. 192 00:07:58.069 --> 00:07:59.829 No, a room for one, please. 193 00:08:00.069 --> 00:08:01.100 No, I'm coming on my own. 194 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:03.480 I'm right in retreat. 195 00:08:03.540 --> 00:08:06.439 No, I won't be bringing a fucking microphone because I 196 00:08:06.459 --> 00:08:06.930 can't work. 197 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:09.750 I'm here to relax. Book me in for three months, 198 00:08:10.230 --> 00:08:11.509 one room, single occupancy. 199 00:08:13.610 --> 00:08:16.410 This podcast, when we put the book announcement up, all 200 00:08:16.430 --> 00:08:20.339 the comments were like... Yeah, fine. But where's the podcast, guys? 201 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:24.360 Because I've got a commute this morning. People are building 202 00:08:24.379 --> 00:08:25.339 their lives around this. 203 00:08:25.379 --> 00:08:26.040 This is bad. 204 00:08:26.060 --> 00:08:27.959 Yeah, all right, well done. You're writing a book. Where 205 00:08:27.980 --> 00:08:29.459 the fuck is today's podcast, guys? 206 00:08:29.480 --> 00:08:32.620 I do think for a free product, the anger that 207 00:08:32.700 --> 00:08:34.320 it was late was unacceptable. 208 00:08:35.990 --> 00:08:39.870 I was like, guys, can we all just relax? Right. 209 00:08:40.750 --> 00:08:42.389 We should get on with our guest, Rob. 210 00:08:42.889 --> 00:08:45.080 Yes, we should. It's a great guest. 211 00:08:45.299 --> 00:08:48.000 Oh, God, I'm tired. But if you think I'm tired, 212 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:53.519 listen to this, man. Never has anyone slept less with 213 00:08:53.590 --> 00:08:54.490 three years of a child. 214 00:08:54.690 --> 00:08:57.330 Oh, God, yeah, I forgot about this. This is great. 215 00:08:57.389 --> 00:09:01.490 Tom Crane, if you feel like you're tired from your kids, 216 00:09:01.590 --> 00:09:03.850 listen to this, and you'll feel like you've just been reborn. 217 00:09:04.269 --> 00:09:04.990 Yeah. 218 00:09:05.009 --> 00:09:06.529 He's had no sleep, has he? No. 219 00:09:07.029 --> 00:09:09.710 If you think Tom Parry was tired, that was like 220 00:09:10.129 --> 00:09:13.389 six months in. This man is three years in. This 221 00:09:13.490 --> 00:09:18.440 is Tom Crane. Hello, Tom Crane. 222 00:09:18.779 --> 00:09:19.500 Hi, Josh. How are you? 223 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:24.419 Good. Michael, the producer, gave a warning there before we 224 00:09:24.450 --> 00:09:29.389 started recording because he's worried that you're too worried about 225 00:09:29.429 --> 00:09:31.830 what people think about your relationship with your kids that 226 00:09:31.850 --> 00:09:32.789 you're going to hold back. 227 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:35.419 Right, OK, so the warning was that basically I don't 228 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:37.879 need to constantly explain that I love my kids. That's 229 00:09:38.059 --> 00:09:39.480 a given, basically. 230 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:40.820 That's a given on this show, Tom. 231 00:09:41.019 --> 00:09:43.480 I feel a bit like I've interrupted your little coffee catch-up, 232 00:09:43.500 --> 00:09:45.740 because you two, this is quite interesting for me and 233 00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:47.990 the listener, that you two are like proper mates to 234 00:09:48.019 --> 00:09:48.490 hang out. 235 00:09:48.450 --> 00:09:51.649 With kids a lot, because you're near each other. 236 00:09:51.710 --> 00:09:54.190 So this is quite a window into what Josh is 237 00:09:54.289 --> 00:09:55.879 really like off mic, Tom. 238 00:09:55.980 --> 00:09:59.139 For us. We went to the zoo on Sunday, Rob. Yeah, 239 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:01.340 but what about stuff with the kids? Oh, it's just 240 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:03.879 a lovely bit of business, isn't it? It's that kind 241 00:10:03.940 --> 00:10:04.299 of stuff. 242 00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:07.159 All joking apart, I would happily go to the zoo 243 00:10:07.179 --> 00:10:08.980 with you, Josh, just for a day. I mean, literally, 244 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:10.220 that'd

be a nice afternoon. 245 00:10:10.299 --> 00:10:11.970 Do you know what? Every time we go to the zoo, 246 00:10:11.990 --> 00:10:14.090 this is the worst thing. Me and Crane will have 247 00:10:14.110 --> 00:10:15.929 the discussion of whether it'd be nice to go without 248 00:10:15.970 --> 00:10:17.210 the kids, which. 249 00:10:17.129 --> 00:10:18.049 Is a fact called living. 250 00:10:18.070 --> 00:10:18.490 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 251 00:10:20.269 --> 00:10:22.129 I've i've sort of gone off london zoo because i 252 00:10:22.129 --> 00:10:24.149 did a corporate gig there and died on my ass 253 00:10:24.429 --> 00:10:26.159 did you and the only people were laughing with the 254 00:10:26.220 --> 00:10:29.399 chimps in the distance and it and it's and it's 255 00:10:29.539 --> 00:10:32.480 burned into me i can't step foot back in that zoo. 256 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:36.500 Oh brutal i my my weird relationship with london zoo 257 00:10:36.580 --> 00:10:39.279 is that the only thing so charlie is my eldest 258 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:40.620 he's three and a half the only thing he cares 259 00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:43.090 about is this um it's a carousel he doesn't care 260 00:10:43.139 --> 00:10:47.129 about anything else The whole journey is basically just skipping 261 00:10:47.169 --> 00:10:48.789 past the animals as quickly as he can to get 262 00:10:48.809 --> 00:10:50.629 to his carousel in the middle. So at which point, 263 00:10:50.649 --> 00:10:52.230 I don't know why we're bothering going to Camden, but 264 00:10:52.470 --> 00:10:55.789 he's so in love with this thing. He's so obsessed 265 00:10:55.860 --> 00:10:56.120 with it. 266 00:10:56.340 --> 00:10:59.840 It's a completely fucking pointless thing, the zoo, because it's 267 00:10:59.899 --> 00:11:02.700 wasted on them because they don't realise how mad it 268 00:11:02.779 --> 00:11:07.039 is that there's a giraffe in London. They don't understand 269 00:11:07.080 --> 00:11:08.460 that that shouldn't be happening. 270 00:11:09.299 --> 00:11:12.299 It's more mental that it's in London because I imagine, 271 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:14.080 you know, when you normally are zoos in a big 272 00:11:14.139 --> 00:11:16.220 bit of land in the countryside, it was normally like 273 00:11:16.500 --> 00:11:18.980 some rich bloke's estate that then turned into a zoo. 274 00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:20.960 But the thought of just trying to get a giraffe 275 00:11:21.019 --> 00:11:23.340 out of a lorry and trying to find anywhere to 276 00:11:23.460 --> 00:11:25.639 park near Regent's Park is absurd. 277 00:11:26.210 --> 00:11:31.330 Sort of walking it through Camden. Past the market. Bring 278 00:11:31.370 --> 00:11:33.409 it in on the canal. Nothing worth buying in there, mate. 279 00:11:33.429 --> 00:11:36.929 Don't bother going in there. I completely agree. So when 280 00:11:36.970 --> 00:11:40.750 we went on Saturday, the only thing... We managed to see, me, 281 00:11:41.250 --> 00:11:44.899 my girlfriend and our child, we saw one pelican. We 282 00:11:44.950 --> 00:11:46.049 had lunch in. 283 00:11:48.230 --> 00:11:48.809 The cafeteria. 284 00:11:48.970 --> 00:11:51.289 Incidentally, they serve burgers and fish and chips, which feels 285 00:11:51.330 --> 00:11:52.990 a bit weird. I don't know. That feels a bit weird. 286 00:11:53.289 --> 00:11:55.690 And then we also went to the Butterfly House. Do 287 00:11:55.710 --> 00:11:57.470 you think you should be a vegetarian? 288 00:11:58.149 --> 00:11:59.889 I do feel that, yeah. 289 00:12:00.110 --> 00:12:01.610 I went to the London Aquarium, and they have a 290 00:12:01.649 --> 00:12:03.240 fish and chip shop at the end of it. That 291 00:12:03.740 --> 00:12:05.860 feels weird. Does it not? 292 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:06.919 It is a bit weird. 293 00:12:07.100 --> 00:12:09.159 You can't pick one out at a posh restaurant with 294 00:12:09.179 --> 00:12:12.299 a lobster. It doesn't work like that. But you... The 295 00:12:12.340 --> 00:12:14.440 fact that this thing is at the end does feel off. 296 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:16.580 I was thinking as well, there must be people that 297 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:19.120 went to Camden and did drugs, oblivious that there's a 298 00:12:19.139 --> 00:12:21.750 zoo around the corner and might have stumbled into it 299 00:12:22.250 --> 00:12:22.549 on a mad one. 300 00:12:22.570 --> 00:12:25.250 You can see the giraffes poking over the wall sometimes. 301 00:12:25.850 --> 00:12:27.710 So there's a chance that you go out on a 302 00:12:27.750 --> 00:12:31.169 big one in Camden, you're walking back at 6am and 303 00:12:31.190 --> 00:12:33.350 the giraffe looks over the wall at you. 304 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:40.659 Josh knows about this. One of the things with my boy, Charlie, 305 00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:43.070 is that he doesn't want to walk anywhere, which is 306 00:12:43.090 --> 00:12:44.450 like really stressful. 307 00:12:44.490 --> 00:12:46.870 Sorry, Tom, to interrupt. So you've got one boy, Charlie, 308 00:12:46.889 --> 00:12:47.350 is that right? 309 00:12:47.529 --> 00:12:50.799 So I'll explain. I have two children. I have a 310 00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:53.539 little boy called Pip, who's just turned one this weekend. 311 00:12:54.350 --> 00:12:57.529 And an older boy called Charlie, who I will, despite 312 00:12:57.549 --> 00:12:59.490 the warning, say I love very, very much. He's awesome. 313 00:12:59.789 --> 00:13:00.230 But he. 314 00:13:01.289 --> 00:13:03.929 Edit that out, Mike. Edit that out. 315 00:13:03.950 --> 00:13:06.350 Charlie, after like three footsteps, is like, I don't want 316 00:13:06.370 --> 00:13:08.309 to walk. I'm tired. My legs are tired. So I 317 00:13:08.330 --> 00:13:11.330 spend my entire life carrying him around. So at London Zoo, 318 00:13:11.389 --> 00:13:14.049 it's the same. Like, I was carrying him, as you'll know, John, 319 00:13:14.070 --> 00:13:15.769 I was carrying him all the way around the zoo. Like, 320 00:13:15.909 -->

00:13:17.110 everywhere I have to carry him. 321 00:13:17.509 --> 00:13:18.049 How old is he? 322 00:13:18.250 --> 00:13:19.850 I was always... He's three and a half. 323 00:13:19.889 --> 00:13:20.750 You know the parent you saw when.... 324 00:13:24.309 --> 00:13:26.549 There's always one parent who's like pushing a pram and 325 00:13:26.629 --> 00:13:28.350 carrying their child at the same time. So it's an 326 00:13:28.389 --> 00:13:34.240 empty pram. That's what it is with Charlie. So that's 327 00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:36.080 the only frustration of going out to the zoo and 328 00:13:36.100 --> 00:13:37.259 stuff is I have to carry him everywhere. 329 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:39.720 So what happens if you put him, I get when 330 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:41.299 there's no pram, but if you've got a pram, why 331 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:42.259 won't you just get in the pram? 332 00:13:42.779 --> 00:13:44.769 Well, we're trying to sort of get the pram out 333 00:13:44.830 --> 00:13:48.139 a bit, sort of fade it out a bit. To 334 00:13:48.159 --> 00:13:50.970 try and make him walk more. We're using the scooter 335 00:13:51.049 --> 00:13:52.509 thing he goes around on, but that just means I 336 00:13:52.529 --> 00:13:54.110 end up carrying a scooter and him. 337 00:13:54.409 --> 00:13:57.429 Try two kids, two scooters, carrying both during lockdown. I 338 00:13:57.450 --> 00:14:00.389 did that across the park and I was livid. 339 00:14:00.409 --> 00:14:04.259 I was so hot and tired and everything was so heavy. 340 00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:07.559 Do you have the thing where you make them promise 341 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:11.080 beforehand that that definitely won't happen? Each time I'm like, okay, 342 00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:14.019 so we're going to take the scooter. Just to be clear, Charlie. 343 00:14:14.539 --> 00:14:17.419 You will be on the scooter there and back. Yeah, yeah, 344 00:14:17.490 --> 00:14:19.149 of course I will be. Looking me dead in the 345 00:14:19.330 --> 00:14:22.830 eye like he actually respects me. And then we'll get 346 00:14:23.409 --> 00:14:24.769 like halfway to the park. 347 00:14:25.009 --> 00:14:27.460 Have you considered pushing on the scooter? Can't you put 348 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:29.759 him standing on the scooter and then push the scooter? 349 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:30.940 I get lower back problems. 350 00:14:31.100 --> 00:14:31.559 Oh, right. 351 00:14:31.659 --> 00:14:33.019 I do get lower back problems. 352 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:35.120 That's probably from carrying your fucking kid around. 353 00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:38.779 The zoo you were near me complaining about my back that's. 354 00:14:38.419 --> 00:14:41.230 Because you're talking about how tall you six one six 355 00:14:41.269 --> 00:14:43.789 two six two yeah six two yeah so that's i 356 00:14:43.850 --> 00:14:45.389 find it a bit of a hunch on the back 357 00:14:45.429 --> 00:14:47.090 and i'm only five or eight to get down to 358 00:14:47.129 --> 00:14:49.750 the scooter so what about a lot of bigger scooter 359 00:14:49.789 --> 00:14:51.350 and then he just holds and he holds on the 360 00:14:51.389 --> 00:14:53.129 bottom bit of scooting and you could pull him along. 361 00:14:53.590 --> 00:14:55.909 I'm gonna say it i'm not gonna throw these things 362 00:14:55.950 --> 00:14:58.529 around with many of our guests but I think Tom's 363 00:14:58.750 --> 00:15:01.990 lower back problems are partly psychosomatic, Rob. And the reason 364 00:15:02.029 --> 00:15:04.730 I'm saying that is his girlfriend told me that when 365 00:15:04.750 --> 00:15:08.360 they were trying prams, he claimed to have got lower 366 00:15:08.379 --> 00:15:10.940 back problems from a pram when trying it from one 367 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:11.720 side of John Lewis. 368 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:12.720 That is true. 369 00:15:12.779 --> 00:15:13.059 I did. 370 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:14.320 It hurt. I felt a twinge. 371 00:15:14.379 --> 00:15:17.740 Which John Lewis? The blue one's massive. How far was 372 00:15:17.779 --> 00:15:18.059 the walk? 373 00:15:19.980 --> 00:15:21.559 It was the one near Oxford circus. I did one 374 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:23.740 full lap and it, and it hurt. It did hurt. 375 00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:26.000 So it's the flagship store. That's the flagship store. 376 00:15:26.019 --> 00:15:26.580 Yeah, exactly. 377 00:15:26.600 --> 00:15:29.690 Exactly. But yeah, but there, there is that, that is 378 00:15:29.750 --> 00:15:30.570 a point of frustration. 379 00:15:30.710 --> 00:15:33.990 My oldest doesn't walk at all. And then my youngest 380 00:15:34.049 --> 00:15:34.909 loves walking and stuff. 381 00:15:34.929 --> 00:15:37.529 So when, when it was the first, first, first lockdown, 382 00:15:37.549 --> 00:15:39.360 and she was only two, the youngest, she'd get out, 383 00:15:39.389 --> 00:15:41.700 she'd get boogies loud out for an hour, walking around 384 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:44.200 with the pram. The oldest who was four would not 385 00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:45.779 get out of the pram at all for the entire 386 00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:47.000 walk and just eat some sandwiches. 387 00:15:47.019 --> 00:15:48.059 It was like a double buggy thing. 388 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:50.379 And then the two-year-old would get out, even though she 389 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:52.100 was two years younger, because she was bored and walk 390 00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:52.340 a bit. 391 00:15:52.659 --> 00:15:53.759 So it's just different kids. 392 00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:54.299 Okay. 393 00:15:54.419 --> 00:15:55.710 Yeah. 394 00:15:55.779 --> 00:15:58.190 I do think that's right, because our younger boy already, 395 00:15:58.309 --> 00:16:01.029 he's only just turned a year, but he's desperately going 396 00:16:01.049 --> 00:16:03.350 around on this sort of like trundle thing, which he's constantly, 397 00:16:03.370 --> 00:16:06.409 he's really physical. And he already dominates his older brother. 398 00:16:06.490 -->

00:16:10.529 Like Charlie's got this plastic toy car that he sits 399 00:16:10.610 --> 00:16:11.250 in in the living room. 400 00:16:11.389 --> 00:16:13.429 He's being physically dominated by a one-year-old. 401 00:16:13.460 --> 00:16:15.299 He completely is. Yeah, that's not a lie at all. 402 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.149 So there's this plastic car that Charlie sits in, and 403 00:16:18.169 --> 00:16:20.129 pretends to drive around. And then Pip will come in 404 00:16:20.269 --> 00:16:22.009 and basically pull him out of it and then sit 405 00:16:22.070 --> 00:16:25.429 in it himself. Like he's a year old. It's absolutely mad. 406 00:16:25.870 --> 00:16:28.429 And Charlie will be going, oh dad, Pip's pushed me. 407 00:16:28.450 --> 00:16:29.129 Pip's pushed me. 408 00:16:31.980 --> 00:16:32.320 No, it's not. 409 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:34.919 Pip is short for Philip, but he's not a Philip. 410 00:16:34.980 --> 00:16:36.879 He's a Pip. That's what we call him. But he 411 00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:41.059 is really, really physical. And already you can see the difference, 412 00:16:41.100 --> 00:16:44.240 how quickly these things sort of like, their personality comes 413 00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:44.740 out so. 414 00:16:45.429 --> 00:16:47.970 Are you worried he's going to be bullying Charlie within years? 415 00:16:48.009 --> 00:16:48.649 I don't think he'll be. 416 00:16:48.610 --> 00:16:54.320 Bullying, but I think he'll be... He'll be, like, the heavy. 417 00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:57.120 He'll be the tough one, I think, in school that 418 00:16:57.539 --> 00:17:00.539 looks after his brother who's two years older than him. 419 00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:04.140 I think that's going to be it. 420 00:17:04.180 --> 00:17:04.940 His brother is in year 11. 421 00:17:04.940 --> 00:17:05.509 Yeah, exactly, yeah. 422 00:17:05.660 --> 00:17:07.950 My brother, who's two years younger, he's going to sort 423 00:17:07.970 --> 00:17:10.309 you out. But it's amazing how quickly these things come out. Now. 424 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:13.579 I feel like we should discuss sleeping because that's kind 425 00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:16.000 of a big deal in your life. Or isn't, as 426 00:17:16.059 --> 00:17:20.380 the case may be. How bad is Charlie as a sleeper? 427 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:21.279 Or has he been? 428 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:27.430 I don't think we've... I think I've had two good 429 00:17:27.490 --> 00:17:29.269 nights sleep, three good nights sleep in three and a 430 00:17:29.269 --> 00:17:31.549 half years. I think that is about right. 431 00:17:32.509 --> 00:17:35.589 Is that including, not including going away, working away from home? 432 00:17:36.309 --> 00:17:39.250 I've discounted the couple of times we've been away and yeah, we've, 433 00:17:39.289 --> 00:17:42.150 you know, yeah. Take that as a given. But actually 434 00:17:42.170 --> 00:17:44.190 that's annoyingly, isn't take it as a given because I've 435 00:17:44.210 --> 00:17:47.589 got into such a rhythm of waking up five or 436 00:17:47.630 --> 00:17:49.230 six times in a night that even when we stay 437 00:17:49.269 --> 00:17:51.170 in a hotel together, I wake up five or six 438 00:17:51.210 --> 00:17:54.329 times in a night. 439 00:17:53.349 --> 00:17:55.170 Because my mind is now. 440 00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:55.690 Oh no. 441 00:17:55.859 --> 00:17:57.319 It's really bad, yeah. 442 00:17:57.480 --> 00:17:59.880 So what's the, because he's three, was he three and 443 00:17:59.900 --> 00:18:01.759 a half now? So what's the situation currently? Three and 444 00:18:01.779 --> 00:18:03.529 a half, yeah. what's the sleep. 445 00:18:03.329 --> 00:18:08.769 Situation currently so occasionally we'll get two or three days 446 00:18:08.829 --> 00:18:11.019 of good sleep three some of that but that never 447 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:13.700 coincides with younger brother sleeping well as well that's another 448 00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:15.480 point we'll come to his younger brother isn't sleeping particularly 449 00:18:15.500 --> 00:18:19.500 well either but charlie will for two months three month 450 00:18:19.539 --> 00:18:23.200 periods have really bad sleeping where he'll be up maybe 451 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:26.220 four times in a night you then add the brother 452 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:28.509 who'll also be up three times so it's quite feasibly 453 00:18:28.529 --> 00:18:30.589 be up seven or eight times in a night. At 454 00:18:30.609 --> 00:18:36.400 which point I would say, it's not, it's not a 455 00:18:36.440 --> 00:18:38.180 night of sleep anymore. It's not, what is that? 456 00:18:38.339 --> 00:18:39.160 I don't know what that is. 457 00:18:39.299 --> 00:18:43.019 I mean, I'm having like 15 minute chunks at best. 458 00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:45.569 I'm not going into deep sleep. And then I'm hearing 459 00:18:45.609 --> 00:18:49.170 that awful, you know, that white noise that some noise 460 00:18:49.190 --> 00:18:51.430 that comes on, on the, on the monitor before you 461 00:18:51.470 --> 00:18:57.210 hear the crying, it's a, eerie wind noise and you 462 00:18:57.250 --> 00:19:00.029 know something's going to happen either way it's woken me 463 00:19:00.150 --> 00:19:04.470 up whether it's spiralled or it's nothing it's done the 464 00:19:04.509 --> 00:19:07.250 job I'm up well done whatever you rolled over or 465 00:19:07.269 --> 00:19:10.059 you're about to cry either way you've ruined that what 466 00:19:10.099 --> 00:19:13.059 could have been 40 minutes of sleep so you see 467 00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:16.859 these boys and I wake there and I'm going what's 468 00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:19.779 this going to be Is it going to be the usual? 469 00:19:20.059 --> 00:19:22.119 And of course it normally is the usual, which means 470 00:19:22.420 --> 00:19:25.039 I go in to see Charlie. Charlie doesn't want to 471 00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:27.900 see me. So me going in makes the situation worse. 472 00:19:28.579 --> 00:19:30.900 He gets quite loud and

then he wakes his brother Pip, 473 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:34.599 who's upset. So he's going as well. Now they're both 474 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:37.500 going in tandem. So Claire will come in and try 475 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:39.920 and calm down Charlie. I'll have to go and do Pip. 476 00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:42.019 And just the whole thing's an absolute mayhem. And there's 477 00:19:42.059 --> 00:19:45.140 this merry-go-round of one waking up the other round and 478 00:19:45.180 --> 00:19:48.150 round and round and round again. Now, He's always had 479 00:19:48.210 --> 00:19:51.519 problems like this from the very beginning like when he 480 00:19:51.539 --> 00:19:52.980 was a baby it was exactly the same he had 481 00:19:53.019 --> 00:19:55.329 like allergies and stuff he always had problems like this 482 00:19:55.349 --> 00:19:57.150 growing up i think it's sort of like based in 483 00:19:57.190 --> 00:19:59.369 things when he was a young baby but i can't 484 00:19:59.450 --> 00:20:01.670 remember i think i can remember maybe two or three 485 00:20:01.730 --> 00:20:03.369 nights i can i can actually know i can remember 486 00:20:03.410 --> 00:20:04.890 the nights when i have good nights i've had a 487 00:20:04.910 --> 00:20:05.740 good night's sleep. 488 00:20:05.990 --> 00:20:08.849 So what would consist of a good night's sleep? That is, yeah, 489 00:20:08.869 --> 00:20:11.690 that is quite bad. What's a good night's sleep then? 490 00:20:11.769 --> 00:20:14.279 Just like, if he's had a good one, what would 491 00:20:14.299 --> 00:20:15.740 those two or three nights consist of? 492 00:20:16.059 --> 00:20:18.500 So, okay. So for me, a good night's sleep now, 493 00:20:19.819 --> 00:20:21.619 if Claire and I would turn to each other in 494 00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:24.019 the morning and say, oh, that was good. If, let's 495 00:20:24.059 --> 00:20:27.000 say we went to bed at 10, we woke up 496 00:20:27.019 --> 00:20:31.920 at midnight, then we woke up at two, and then 497 00:20:31.940 --> 00:20:35.190 we woke up at four. If we woke up, three 498 00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:38.160 and maybe one other time four times three times we 499 00:20:38.180 --> 00:20:40.740 would react like we'd won the world cup in the 500 00:20:40.779 --> 00:20:47.819 morning like it would be unbelievable celebration even now yeah 501 00:20:47.940 --> 00:20:50.819 so so three wake-ups would be a cause for i 502 00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:54.799 can't believe what an incredible night that was like yeah 503 00:20:54.839 --> 00:20:58.900 so that would be proper joy yeah. 504 00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:01.339 What now or back when they were little uh no. 505 00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:02.880 Now still now now. 506 00:21:04.490 --> 00:21:07.470 Still now yeah yeah yeah. 507 00:21:07.190 --> 00:21:09.839 Yeah i know i know but charlie's always had weird 508 00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:12.680 things like there was a long period for about five 509 00:21:12.740 --> 00:21:16.299 months when he was about

one and a half where 510 00:21:16.940 --> 00:21:18.859 i could only get him to sleep by singing uh 511 00:21:19.299 --> 00:21:25.970 under pressure by queen he must have been about two 512 00:21:26.009 --> 00:21:28.670 because he was saying the words he was That's basically 513 00:21:28.710 --> 00:21:30.759 saying he was trying to tell me what the song was. 514 00:21:30.779 --> 00:21:33.619 So I'd have to sing this song. Under pressure, looking 515 00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:35.900 down and me rubbing his back. Slowly. 516 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:36.859 Would you do the verse? 517 00:21:36.940 --> 00:21:38.000 I don't even know. 518 00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:41.480 He does Bowie and Freddie Mercury. 519 00:21:43.819 --> 00:21:45.859 All the parts. But he's always had this. 520 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:47.779 Would you do the bass bit? Because the bass bit's 521 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:48.259 the most iconic. 522 00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:50.130 On your lips for a bit of banter. And.... 523 00:21:55.640 --> 00:21:57.829 But there's also things like we've always had to, I 524 00:21:57.849 --> 00:22:00.150 remember when he was like, he really got obsessed with 525 00:22:01.410 --> 00:22:04.170 his football coach. He's called Coach Jason, but really, really 526 00:22:04.210 --> 00:22:07.529 obsessed with this guy called Coach Jason. And another way 527 00:22:07.549 --> 00:22:09.849 we'd have to get him to sleep was to reassure 528 00:22:09.890 --> 00:22:12.869 him that Coach Jason was also sleeping. So that happened 529 00:22:13.069 --> 00:22:15.369 for quite a while. So long conversations before bed. 530 00:22:15.390 --> 00:22:15.890 Oh, bless him. 531 00:22:16.470 --> 00:22:18.369 Just to let you know that Coach Jason is also 532 00:22:18.410 --> 00:22:21.170 asleep now. He's tucking himself into bed. Like Coach Jason 533 00:22:21.210 --> 00:22:23.049 is like in his late thirties and this was like 534 00:22:23.109 --> 00:22:26.609 seven o'clock at night. And I was trying to convince 535 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.589 Charlie that this football coach is getting into bed. But 536 00:22:29.630 --> 00:22:32.529 all these weird things he'd have. He's very, very sweet. 537 00:22:32.710 --> 00:22:34.529 It's just the part of it. He's got an unusual child. 538 00:22:34.990 --> 00:22:37.089 You know, it's just the way he is. But the 539 00:22:37.109 --> 00:22:39.089 sleep is still just terrible, yeah. 540 00:22:39.349 --> 00:22:41.210 This is, obviously, it's quite extreme. 541 00:22:41.230 --> 00:22:43.150 I'd say your version of a good night is sort 542 00:22:43.170 --> 00:22:45.450 of like you'd have sort of early doors of sleeping. 543 00:22:45.470 --> 00:22:47.990 So have you had to try to speak to a 544 00:22:47.990 --> 00:22:50.410 sleep consultant or something to see what you can do? 545 00:22:50.430 --> 00:22:54.960 Yeah, so we actually had a sleep. consultant over last 546 00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:57.500 night actually we thought we've got to do something about 547 00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:00.700 this and um yeah yeah so we did have someone 548 00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:02.799 over last night to try and help uh but it's 549 00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:07.710 that it's that trying to change their relationship with feeding 550 00:23:07.750 --> 00:23:09.529 and like pit for example he wakes up during the 551 00:23:09.549 --> 00:23:11.309 night and thinks he wants milk on a number of 552 00:23:11.329 --> 00:23:14.569 occasions right he doesn't so trying to help change that 553 00:23:15.130 --> 00:23:17.369 but um i i still sort of clingy on to 554 00:23:17.410 --> 00:23:20.029 the idea that the younger one is a good sleeper. 555 00:23:20.230 --> 00:23:22.430 I can't... Josh, you always say to me, Josh, that 556 00:23:22.730 --> 00:23:25.250 I constantly have to say, it's going to be all right. 557 00:23:25.269 --> 00:23:27.470 It's fine. It's going to be all right. And you. 558 00:23:27.809 --> 00:23:28.450 It is what it is. 559 00:23:28.470 --> 00:23:30.109 It is what it is. And then you'll say to me, 560 00:23:30.190 --> 00:23:30.609 it's all right. 561 00:23:31.089 --> 00:23:32.670 Is it what it is? Does it have to be 562 00:23:32.710 --> 00:23:33.210 what it is? 563 00:23:33.470 --> 00:23:35.799 But I would say for my... For me not to 564 00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:38.140 have a breakdown, it has to be okay. I have 565 00:23:38.180 --> 00:23:42.619 to say it's going to be okay. I don't know 566 00:23:42.660 --> 00:23:45.059 what you expect me to go. I can't just go, oh, yeah, 567 00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:48.680 it's a disaster. It's never going to resolve itself. I understand. 568 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:51.640 I have to have some kind of thick person's hope 569 00:23:52.009 --> 00:23:53.609 that it's going to be all right, basically. 570 00:23:55.180 --> 00:23:56.460 I never realised how bad that was. 571 00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:58.839 I knew, like, you know, Josh mentioned in the podcast 572 00:23:58.859 --> 00:24:02.230 how Tom's child doesn't sleep as, like, that well and stuff. 573 00:24:02.250 --> 00:24:04.130 But I didn't realise it was still now, like, three 574 00:24:04.150 --> 00:24:05.849 or four times a night. So a bad night is 575 00:24:05.890 --> 00:24:06.809 basically up every hour. 576 00:24:08.089 --> 00:24:12.519 Yes, it would be, yeah. Yeah, that's about right. And 577 00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:14.519 sometimes a number of times in the hour, but then 578 00:24:14.539 --> 00:24:16.980 there'll be a portion later in the night for maybe 579 00:24:17.059 --> 00:24:19.380 three or four o'clock you might get a bigger wadge. 580 00:24:19.970 --> 00:24:23.589 So consolidate his wake-ups into one easy thing. 581 00:24:23.609 --> 00:24:24.650 Exactly, yeah. 582 00:24:25.109 --> 00:24:25.750 One mega hour. 583 00:24:25.990 --> 00:24:27.170 That's what you want. A good omnibus. 584 00:24:27.190 --> 00:24:30.089 Can we do all these wake-ups in the first two hours? 585 00:24:30.130 --> 00:24:32.589 Let's get them all

over with. Do six at the 586 00:24:32.630 --> 00:24:34.250 start and then we can sleep through. 587 00:24:34.349 --> 00:24:38.890 Well, that's a dream, but that is few and far between. 588 00:24:39.730 --> 00:24:43.309 But the extent that we've gone to to try and 589 00:24:43.410 --> 00:24:46.690 stop him from waking is ridiculous. We went on a 590 00:24:46.789 --> 00:24:51.940 family holiday to Norfolk last year. And Charlie was sleeping 591 00:24:52.099 --> 00:24:56.000 in the room next to the toilet. And so to 592 00:24:56.039 --> 00:24:57.460 make sure that we didn't wake him up by using 593 00:24:57.480 --> 00:24:59.920 the toilet during the night, we came to the decision, 594 00:24:59.960 --> 00:25:02.529 Claire and I, to urinate in a bucket throughout the 595 00:25:02.569 --> 00:25:09.609 night by our bed. So that's like, we just thought, well, 596 00:25:09.630 --> 00:25:12.069 that's the only option because otherwise he'll be up constantly. 597 00:25:12.690 --> 00:25:14.589 So that is what we did. That's what we did. 598 00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:18.980 So you must have tried everything. What about the rub 599 00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:21.019 on the nose? People used to say, all you've got 600 00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:22.579 to do is rub them on the nose. 601 00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:25.180 Imagine if you haven't tried that and tonight you rub 602 00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:27.180 them on the nose and they sleep for eight hours. 603 00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:29.599 But he gets so attached to things that he would 604 00:25:29.619 --> 00:25:31.579 then need that rub on the nose constantly. This is 605 00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:33.960 the way it works, is that he forms attachments to 606 00:25:34.099 --> 00:25:38.289 whatever you do. So that's the problem with trying things 607 00:25:38.309 --> 00:25:40.089 that he'll become too reliant on. This is why I 608 00:25:40.089 --> 00:25:42.349 ended up singing Under Pressure for six months, because that's 609 00:25:42.390 --> 00:25:42.869 what he needed. 610 00:25:46.140 --> 00:25:49.400 The thing is, you're so chirpy about it. But I find. 611 00:25:49.500 --> 00:25:51.299 It is what it is, Josh. There's no other way. 612 00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:53.319 You've got to let the man have hope. 613 00:25:53.380 --> 00:25:55.200 I know, I know. 614 00:25:55.980 --> 00:25:58.269 Don't talk him out of chirping it. Don't go, oh, 615 00:25:58.289 --> 00:25:59.809 you should be more miserable about this. 616 00:25:59.829 --> 00:26:02.750 There have been times where Josh has been visibly annoyed 617 00:26:02.769 --> 00:26:08.970 at me for not being more annoyed. You've looked quite 618 00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:11.380 openly when me and you have been together at the 619 00:26:11.420 --> 00:26:13.420 last leg. Because we write, you know, we write together. 620 00:26:13.970 --> 00:26:16.180 And sometimes you go, it's all right, Tom, you can, 621 00:26:16.339 --> 00:26:17.839 it's okay for it not to be okay. 622 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:21.920 I'm looking for some kind of fight. 623 00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:25.599 Exactly. But I just need, I need to tell myself 624 00:26:25.660 --> 00:26:27.839 it's going to be okay, because that's just what else, 625 00:26:27.980 --> 00:26:28.769 what else is there? 626 00:26:30.490 --> 00:26:32.009 How would you be in this situation, Rob? 627 00:26:32.490 --> 00:26:35.309 I mean, like I say, I think I'm a bit 628 00:26:35.329 --> 00:26:37.380 more Tom's side of things, of trying to be positive 629 00:26:37.390 --> 00:26:38.880 and stuff and just trying different techniques. 630 00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:40.000 But you hope they'll grow out of it. 631 00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:41.880 And three and a half is still fairly young, so 632 00:26:41.900 --> 00:26:43.960 you hope that you might turn a corner or something. 633 00:26:44.259 --> 00:26:47.960 Do you know what a real positive is? Your relationship 634 00:26:48.059 --> 00:26:51.910 is definitely going to last. Because if it hadn't gone 635 00:26:51.950 --> 00:26:53.539 in the last three and a half years, do you 636 00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:57.700 know what I mean? That is the extreme a relationship 637 00:26:57.740 --> 00:26:58.859 could be put under. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 638 00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:01.119 Or the argument is they're too tired to have an affair. 639 00:27:03.299 --> 00:27:06.269 Imagine that, I'm having an affair with anyone. Don't touch me, 640 00:27:06.349 --> 00:27:06.990 I'm here to sleep. 641 00:27:08.670 --> 00:27:10.450 You can't sneak out in the night and return because 642 00:27:10.470 --> 00:27:11.710 they're going to wake up and see that there's an 643 00:27:11.730 --> 00:27:14.509 empty space in their bed about seven to eight times 644 00:27:14.529 --> 00:27:21.819 during the night. So, yeah, completely. But no, I think it's, yeah, 645 00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:25.240 you're doing it together. It'll work itself out. Yeah, exactly, exactly. 646 00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:28.079 I mean, he's an interesting cat, my little lad. He's 647 00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:30.519 kind of, he's a real, it's the same as me. 648 00:27:30.700 --> 00:27:33.809 He's a real worrier. So he, something will... concern him 649 00:27:33.890 --> 00:27:36.210 and he'll obsess on it and he'll bring it up 650 00:27:36.529 --> 00:27:39.390 months later so like let's say he's watching a cartoon 651 00:27:39.410 --> 00:27:41.210 and someone has a worried face on it he'll want 652 00:27:41.230 --> 00:27:42.809 to talk to me about it often like two in 653 00:27:42.849 --> 00:27:44.750 the morning three in the morning which is it comes 654 00:27:44.769 --> 00:27:47.599 he's very sort of empathetic very sweet child but he's 655 00:27:47.619 --> 00:27:50.240 also a worrier and I think that's partly where this 656 00:27:50.359 --> 00:27:52.920 sleep comes from because he's worried about things in the 657 00:27:52.980 --> 00:27:55.000 night and blah blah blah blah and wants to wake up. 658 00:27:55.259 --> 00:27:57.380

And chat about things if he knew what was going 659 00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:02.569 on globally at the moment If he understood the implications 660 00:28:02.609 --> 00:28:05.210 of the current international news, he'd be in serious trouble. 661 00:28:05.230 --> 00:28:07.430 He'd say goodbye to my 36 minutes of sleep. Yeah, exactly. 662 00:28:08.210 --> 00:28:10.920 Isn't there a piece of graffiti that worries him so 663 00:28:10.940 --> 00:28:12.559 you have to take a different route to nursery? 664 00:28:12.579 --> 00:28:15.420 Yeah, so this is mad. This is on our road. 665 00:28:15.740 --> 00:28:19.400 There's a piece of sort of like... It looks... It's 666 00:28:19.420 --> 00:28:23.839 got brightly coloured spray paint graffiti. This face, which he 667 00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:27.880 calls the scary eyes, which is on someone's garage. It's 668 00:28:27.900 --> 00:28:29.440 quite a cool piece of art, I guess. 669 00:28:29.769 --> 00:28:29.869 And. 670 00:28:31.190 --> 00:28:34.369 But he's so worried about going past this piece of 671 00:28:34.410 --> 00:28:38.009 graffiti that we can't walk up that road anymore, despite 672 00:28:38.029 --> 00:28:40.559 the fact that is by far the quickest way to 673 00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:42.559 get to the main road and to get to nursery. 674 00:28:42.579 --> 00:28:46.920 So it's said we have to go the most scenic 675 00:28:46.980 --> 00:28:51.730 route around. East London, you could possibly imagine. It's mad. 676 00:28:51.990 --> 00:28:53.549 Which isn't that scenic in East London. 677 00:28:53.849 --> 00:28:57.089 No, it's not that scenic. Yeah, quite. But we even 678 00:28:57.109 --> 00:28:59.529 have to drive down different, we can't go that way 679 00:28:59.589 --> 00:29:01.369 to the main road if he's in the car. We 680 00:29:01.390 --> 00:29:02.309 have to go different routes. 681 00:29:02.349 --> 00:29:06.119 Will he just get really upset then and cry and things? 682 00:29:06.150 --> 00:29:09.839 Yeah, so he sometimes is willing to sort of close 683 00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:11.799 his eyes, but his hands are his eyes and we 684 00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:14.319 sing a song, silly eyes, silly eyes, all this sort 685 00:29:14.339 --> 00:29:16.180 of thing as we're going past, which kind of makes 686 00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:18.720 him laugh, smelly feet, all this sort of nonsense. But 687 00:29:19.049 --> 00:29:20.549 most of the time he doesn't really want to go 688 00:29:20.730 --> 00:29:22.980 past it. Other times he'll want to sort of confront it. 689 00:29:23.009 --> 00:29:25.450 It's kind of interesting how the mind of a child works. 690 00:29:25.990 --> 00:29:28.349 Fear is a strange thing. There's part of them wants 691 00:29:28.410 --> 00:29:30.609 to approach it and deal with it. So occasionally people 692 00:29:30.630 --> 00:29:32.670 are like, oh, can we go and see it? There's 693 00:29:32.690 --> 00:29:36.529 a lot going on with him there. Which I also 694 00:29:36.549 --> 00:29:38.109 kind of admire

because he is scared of that. And 695 00:29:38.250 --> 00:29:40.640 sometimes he does want to go and see it. but 696 00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:45.799 it doesn't make our life unbelievably easy because we're having 697 00:29:45.819 --> 00:29:48.700 to take 52 left turns to get to where we 698 00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:50.420 i can see the end of our road i can 699 00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:52.599 see the main road from our road we just need 700 00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:54.430 to drive to it But instead, we have to go 701 00:29:54.470 --> 00:29:58.809 past every other house with a three-mile radius. Last Christmas, 702 00:29:58.849 --> 00:30:01.329 you and Rose kindly bought us a... Because I watched 703 00:30:01.349 --> 00:30:05.339 that documentary on Basquiat, and you bought us, obviously, a print, 704 00:30:05.460 --> 00:30:09.160 not an original, of a piece of Basquiat art, which 705 00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:12.119 we've got up on our landing. There's a sort of 706 00:30:12.140 --> 00:30:13.960 scary face in the middle of it, which Charlie has 707 00:30:14.009 --> 00:30:15.990 now made me stick a Post-it note over with a 708 00:30:16.029 --> 00:30:18.940 smiley face over. So I've had to draw a smiley 709 00:30:18.980 --> 00:30:20.740 face on a post-it note and stick it on this 710 00:30:20.779 --> 00:30:22.799 scary face, which is on the piece of art. So 711 00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:25.799 he obviously, faces and things like this do sort of 712 00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:26.380 worry him. 713 00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:28.279 He's obviously very sort of like in tune to all 714 00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:31.460 that stuff, isn't he? It's just he's worried and fearful. 715 00:30:31.859 --> 00:30:33.740 Because I don't know what age you can go to 716 00:30:33.799 --> 00:30:36.099 see like a child psychologist, I imagine. Because if he's 717 00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:38.109 like that in the day, then it's obviously that's what's 718 00:30:38.140 --> 00:30:39.240 worrying him at night, isn't it? 719 00:30:39.269 --> 00:30:39.900 Keeping him up. 720 00:30:40.049 --> 00:30:41.869 It does feel like that must be the same thing 721 00:30:41.910 --> 00:30:42.670 as the sleep, right? 722 00:30:42.750 --> 00:30:45.029 Yeah, I think there's probably links there. But I mean, 723 00:30:45.230 --> 00:30:47.470 I think it also manifests its self in ways that 724 00:30:47.509 --> 00:30:50.670 are quite sweet like the nursery say whenever there's a 725 00:30:50.690 --> 00:30:52.670 child who looks a bit sad or whatever he will 726 00:30:53.259 --> 00:30:54.779 be very aware of it and want to go and 727 00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:56.619 tell someone go and help or he's sort of very 728 00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:59.940 in tune with how yeah people are reacting what face 729 00:30:59.960 --> 00:31:01.720 they're showing why is that man why why is that 730 00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:03.200 man whatever so why don't. 731 00:31:03.109 --> 00:31:04.950 You just look really sad when you have to drive 732 00:31:04.990 --> 00:31:09.710 all around the island just go really sad And see 733 00:31:09.789 --> 00:31:10.289 if he picks. 734 00:31:10.289 --> 00:31:13.289 Up on it. I've been telling you to be more 735 00:31:13.329 --> 00:31:16.049 sad about the sleep thing. That's the solution. Are you 736 00:31:16.130 --> 00:31:19.009 empathetic or are you scared? Pick a fucking line, kid. 737 00:31:20.289 --> 00:31:24.039 It's two quid a litre of petrol here. Let us 738 00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:27.460 go the quick route home. We're losing money and time now, son. 739 00:31:27.819 --> 00:31:28.339 Oh, man. 740 00:31:28.819 --> 00:31:31.440 And so did you... I mean, it's weird when I 741 00:31:31.500 --> 00:31:34.509 ask a question because I kind of almost... I almost 742 00:31:34.549 --> 00:31:37.789 know the answer. But, well, I'll just ask this question. 743 00:31:37.849 --> 00:31:43.210 How big is your car, Tom? Is that the question? 744 00:31:43.230 --> 00:31:45.519 Tap me on the shoulder with it, you can tell me. So, 745 00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:46.799 what's your question? 746 00:31:46.819 --> 00:31:48.619 No wonder you've got lower back pain. Jesus. 747 00:31:52.039 --> 00:31:54.819 No, I was basically going to ask a question that 748 00:31:54.839 --> 00:31:57.519 led to you telling Rob that you went to see 749 00:31:57.579 --> 00:32:02.869 a sleep therapist. No, you went to see a feeding person. 750 00:32:03.559 --> 00:32:06.880 after two weeks, and you're so tired that you ended up... Well, 751 00:32:07.700 --> 00:32:09.920 you tell Rob, because it's weird when you're interviewing someone 752 00:32:09.940 --> 00:32:10.700 and you know the answer. 753 00:32:11.240 --> 00:32:12.140 Well, this was a bad day anyway. 754 00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:15.079 Sounds like bloody Boris Johnson, a press conference with his 755 00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:16.920 appointed reporters. 756 00:32:17.079 --> 00:32:19.529 Yeah, lovely, lovely. 757 00:32:19.589 --> 00:32:22.990 Laura Koonsberg, more like Laura Conservative Party, am I right? 758 00:32:23.049 --> 00:32:25.730 Is that something you're doing? Oh, Rob, that's nice. Is 759 00:32:25.809 --> 00:32:30.490 that good? That's good. Bloody BBC, eh? Whatever it is 760 00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:31.390 that we don't like now. 761 00:32:31.690 --> 00:32:35.099 British Broadcasting Conservatives, that's what I call them. Am I right? 762 00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:38.819 Sky Blur, more rather than Sky News. Right, guys? 763 00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:42.180 Sorry, Tom, carry on. No, I enjoyed it. You're making 764 00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:44.119 me think and laugh. I like it. It's kind of an. 765 00:32:44.099 --> 00:32:46.920 Exciting place to be. What were you thinking? Is this 766 00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:47.740 funny or not? 767 00:32:48.299 --> 00:32:49.500 I can't wait till this is over. That's what I 768 00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:49.859 was thinking. 769 00:32:51.619 --> 00:32:52.900 I can't wait for him to stop doing this. 770 00:32:55.140

--> 00:32:57.339 So, yeah, I know what you're talking about. So that 771 00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:01.650 was a sort of, a weird week in general. Basically, 772 00:33:01.670 --> 00:33:04.589 Charlie had these sort of milk allergy sort of things. 773 00:33:05.109 --> 00:33:06.799 We thought he might have milk allergy. He wasn't. 774 00:33:06.990 --> 00:33:08.619 My daughter had milk allergy. She had to go on 775 00:33:08.650 --> 00:33:11.519 to formula that was lactose free for a bit. 776 00:33:11.539 --> 00:33:12.019 Yeah, it's a nightmare. 777 00:33:12.039 --> 00:33:14.119 And now we did milk ladder and she's all over 778 00:33:14.420 --> 00:33:15.819 the chocolate now. 779 00:33:16.099 --> 00:33:18.359 Yes. Yeah, yeah, no, it's the same here. So Charlie 780 00:33:18.380 --> 00:33:19.839 can have everything now, but there was a point where 781 00:33:20.579 --> 00:33:22.019 they were trying to work out what's going on. We'd 782 00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:27.539 been to UCLH that day for a consultation and And 783 00:33:28.339 --> 00:33:30.500 we'd been sat in the waiting room for ages and 784 00:33:30.779 --> 00:33:33.420 all the other parents left. It'd been like three hours 785 00:33:33.460 --> 00:33:35.869 and there was a Wendy house in there. And I 786 00:33:35.910 --> 00:33:38.349 said to Claire, we're so bored. Do you want to 787 00:33:38.369 --> 00:33:40.950 get in the Wendy house? So Claire got in the 788 00:33:40.970 --> 00:33:43.289 Wendy house. There was no other adults in there. At 789 00:33:43.309 --> 00:33:44.910 which point, of course, the doctor came out and called 790 00:33:44.950 --> 00:33:47.130 our names. So there was Claire sticking her head out 791 00:33:47.150 --> 00:33:50.079 of the Wendy house. The reason I remember that is 792 00:33:50.099 --> 00:33:52.299 because that afternoon we went to see a feeding consultant 793 00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:59.269 about his latch. down in South London. And I was 794 00:33:59.470 --> 00:34:02.029 so stressed about going to see this person that I 795 00:34:02.049 --> 00:34:04.450 thought I've just got to, you know, I've no idea 796 00:34:04.470 --> 00:34:06.650 what's going on. I think I was quite anxious, to 797 00:34:06.670 --> 00:34:09.070 be honest, as a parent when I first, after Charlie 798 00:34:09.090 --> 00:34:13.719 was first born. I wasn't really, I don't know how 799 00:34:13.739 --> 00:34:15.960 you describe it. I just don't think I quite understood 800 00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:19.780 what a huge change it was, to be perfectly honest. Yeah. 801 00:34:20.500 --> 00:34:23.360 Uh and i remember you saying to me when i 802 00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:26.059 when my daughter was a few weeks old no it 803 00:34:26.139 --> 00:34:27.420 must have been a few months old because we had 804 00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:31.039 the bouncer you know the the classic bouncer yeah and 805 00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:33.670 at that time uh claire was pregnant and you said 806 00:34:34.230 --> 00:34:36.590 so do you just

like pop her in the bouncer 807 00:34:36.610 --> 00:34:38.510 then you can like just get up on with work 808 00:34:38.530 --> 00:34:42.599 at the table and i thought oh my god Oh, 809 00:34:42.659 --> 00:34:45.420 my God, this is going to be a huge shock 810 00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:47.380 to the... Your view that they do eight hours in 811 00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:49.260 the bouncer in the day while you were tapping away 812 00:34:49.340 --> 00:34:51.280 at the table. 813 00:34:51.340 --> 00:34:55.110 Occasionally... Yeah, basically do a nine to five in there. No, 814 00:34:55.329 --> 00:34:58.710 I think I just hadn't really appreciated what it was. 815 00:34:59.250 --> 00:35:01.570 And I remember that, like, on the day that he 816 00:35:01.590 --> 00:35:06.289 was born, it was great, it was wonderful, etc. But... 817 00:35:08.380 --> 00:35:09.619 I also felt a real sort of. 818 00:35:09.699 --> 00:35:12.539 That accent was doing a lot of legwork in that sentence. 819 00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:13.699 That was a classic. 820 00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:16.349 Did you actually enjoy it, or was it a very horrible, 821 00:35:16.389 --> 00:35:19.329 anxious time? But you have to go, it was great, obviously, 822 00:35:19.449 --> 00:35:24.769 because that's what's expected, etc. The rocking back and forth, 823 00:35:24.949 --> 00:35:29.699 the crying inside, the worried look on your face, the helplessness, etc. 824 00:35:30.340 --> 00:35:31.400 It was a great day. 825 00:35:31.820 --> 00:35:33.159 As long as he's a good sleeper, then it's going 826 00:35:33.179 --> 00:35:38.690 to be fine. LAUGHTER No, but I do remember that 827 00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:44.440 feeling of just this life being there and it being like, oh, 828 00:35:44.579 --> 00:35:47.579 this is it now. As in it's kind of, everything 829 00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:50.030 has changed in a way that I hadn't quite anticipated, 830 00:35:50.090 --> 00:35:52.570 I think. And I felt very sort of, almost it 831 00:35:52.610 --> 00:35:55.449 was like, it reminded me of like that physical feeling of, 832 00:35:55.789 --> 00:35:59.389 like a feeling of homesickness kind of weirdly. When you're younger, 833 00:35:59.650 --> 00:36:02.320 it's like a chest feeling of like, I don't feel 834 00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:04.840 completely in control of this. I may, you know, maybe 835 00:36:04.860 --> 00:36:07.650 lots of other people. I think in a weird way, 836 00:36:07.670 --> 00:36:10.869 I was given some advice before Charlie was born, which 837 00:36:10.909 --> 00:36:13.289 was when you first hold your child when it's first born, 838 00:36:13.309 --> 00:36:15.849 you'll never feel a feeling of elation and it'll be like, oh, 839 00:36:16.409 --> 00:36:18.309 this is what. And I kind of wish I hadn't 840 00:36:18.389 --> 00:36:20.460 been told that because I don't think that is necessarily 841 00:36:20.500 --> 00:36:24.619 the case for people. No. And like I, I love 842 00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:28.179 my children so much.

They are. I know. I know. 843 00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:33.639 But they are. I'm very lucky to have them. And 844 00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:36.699 I think they're wonderful. I really do. But I wish 845 00:36:36.940 --> 00:36:39.219 I hadn't been told. I wish I hadn't been told 846 00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:42.480 beforehand that I would on that moment on that day, 847 00:36:42.500 --> 00:36:45.260 hold him and just feel nothing other than, oh, great. 848 00:36:45.710 --> 00:36:47.650 you know, angels and all this sort of stuff singing. 849 00:36:47.769 --> 00:36:49.590 But it wasn't really what happened. I actually felt quite 850 00:36:49.630 --> 00:36:51.110 sort of anxious and kind of stressed. 851 00:36:51.130 --> 00:36:53.179 Yeah, I think that's a really bad thing to tell 852 00:36:53.219 --> 00:36:57.019 people because it feels like there's a pressure on it 853 00:36:57.440 --> 00:36:59.719 for you to live this moment in the way other 854 00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:00.460 people have lived it. 855 00:37:00.460 --> 00:37:00.579 Yes. 856 00:37:01.019 --> 00:37:02.880 Which I just think is very unhealthy. 857 00:37:03.019 --> 00:37:05.059 You feel guilt if you don't feel happy, like you're 858 00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:07.619 bad and you don't care, but it's not true. 859 00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:10.949 You're just fucking worried. I think that's exactly it. Anyway, 860 00:37:10.969 --> 00:37:11.849 to wrap up the story. 861 00:37:11.869 --> 00:37:14.250 It felt like an elephant had landed on my to-do list. 862 00:37:14.670 --> 00:37:17.489 Like a big fucking weight. 863 00:37:17.590 --> 00:37:17.710 Boom. 864 00:37:17.750 --> 00:37:18.050 Fuck. 865 00:37:18.909 --> 00:37:19.349 Everything. 866 00:37:19.389 --> 00:37:20.730 I've got so much to do now. 867 00:37:21.030 --> 00:37:26.260 I remember that moment when I thought... fuck this doesn't 868 00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:30.000 end do you know what I mean like everything else 869 00:37:30.139 --> 00:37:33.579 I've had in my life before that is a lot 870 00:37:33.619 --> 00:37:38.219 of work or is stressful or is difficult I've gone 871 00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:41.539 well at least in three months that will have ended 872 00:37:41.559 --> 00:37:45.900 or I'll at least Edinburgh is 26 days yeah but 873 00:37:45.980 --> 00:37:50.590 this is forever this is it yeah yeah yeah anyway 874 00:37:51.010 --> 00:37:54.650 but I love my kids laughing You. 875 00:37:54.570 --> 00:37:56.769 Don't have to say that, Josh. You don't have to 876 00:37:56.789 --> 00:37:57.070 say that. 877 00:37:57.110 --> 00:37:58.869 I think Josh had to after that line. I do 878 00:37:58.889 --> 00:38:01.889 think Josh had to after that line, to be fair, Tom. 879 00:38:02.550 --> 00:38:05.050 I remember two weeks in, coming back, and I'd been 880 00:38:05.150 --> 00:38:06.949 at work doing The Last Leg or something. I got 881 00:38:06.989 --> 00:38:11.090 back at like 6pm, and it was like straight in, 882 00:38:11.469 --> 00:38:14.070 and I had no

sleep, and I was feeling very, 883 00:38:14.130 --> 00:38:19.070 very low. And I remember my mother-in-law saying to me, 884 00:38:19.469 --> 00:38:21.489 the thing you've got to remember is you're only ever 885 00:38:21.530 --> 00:38:25.659 as happy as your unhappiest child. And I thought, why 886 00:38:26.019 --> 00:38:29.699 are you saying this to me at this moment? This 887 00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:33.530 is not what I need at this moment. Why didn't 888 00:38:33.570 --> 00:38:36.690 you say that to me 10 months ago? Anyway. 889 00:38:36.769 --> 00:38:37.570 You remember, Josh. 890 00:38:37.650 --> 00:38:39.349 My children are very happy and so am I now. 891 00:38:39.489 --> 00:38:43.570 You and Rose had like, admittedly, you'd found the first 892 00:38:43.630 --> 00:38:46.230 sort of four months kind of quite stressful or whatever 893 00:38:46.250 --> 00:38:48.260 it was. Charlie was born like five months in or whatever. 894 00:38:48.340 --> 00:38:51.019 And we went to your house and we'd had dinner 895 00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:53.940 with you and you and Rose told us. for about 896 00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:56.780 half an hour, how stressful it all was. And, like, 897 00:38:56.820 --> 00:39:00.170 it never ends. The sleep's terrible, et cetera, et cetera. Like, 898 00:39:00.409 --> 00:39:04.469 the longest tirade of, don't do this. Just don't do this. 899 00:39:04.750 --> 00:39:06.590 And ironically, they underplayed it for you. 900 00:39:06.610 --> 00:39:11.400 Well, it ended with us going, well, actually, we've got 901 00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:13.739 some news. And that's when we told you that we 902 00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:16.219 were expecting a child. Oh, is that what you told them? 903 00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:16.360 Oh, no. 904 00:39:16.380 --> 00:39:22.800 But it was 45 minutes of the most... Basically... Some 905 00:39:22.820 --> 00:39:28.320 of the descriptions were horrific What we were... Oh, God. Anyway, 906 00:39:28.980 --> 00:39:30.679 just to wrap up the story, the point is, I 907 00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:32.800 was quite stressed at the beginning. I went to see 908 00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:36.389 this rather posh sleep consultant, and midway through the appointment 909 00:39:36.409 --> 00:39:38.289 with her, she noticed I was wearing two left shoes. 910 00:39:38.389 --> 00:39:43.070 That's what the story is. LAUGHTER I was wearing two 911 00:39:43.110 --> 00:39:49.440 Mike Cortez's both left feet on my... LAUGHTER And I 912 00:39:50.019 --> 00:39:52.239 have never been so embarrassed as she gave me a 913 00:39:52.260 --> 00:39:54.980 look at your face. There's a reason your child is 914 00:39:55.039 --> 00:39:58.059 not feeding. It's because you're an idiot. You're an idiot, 915 00:40:02.269 --> 00:40:05.750 that's why. My moments I remember from my first year, yeah, 916 00:40:05.769 --> 00:40:11.510 the two left shoes and also being at your London wedding, Josh, 917 00:40:12.250 --> 00:40:15.619 with Charlie. Now, remembering that Charlie's a warrior, walking up 918 00:40:15.659 --> 00:40:19.389 to a little park near it. And seeing a pigeon 919 00:40:20.530 --> 00:40:23.139 saying to Charlie, oh, look at the pigeon. Should we 920 00:40:23.179 --> 00:40:25.500 go and see that pigeon? And walking across and the 921 00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:28.559 pigeon was lacking its head. Its head had come off. 922 00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:35.780 There was literally no sign of a head. But that 923 00:40:36.219 --> 00:40:41.590 sticks with me as a really early memory of bad parenting, basically. 924 00:40:41.610 --> 00:40:42.449 But that's not your fault. 925 00:40:43.369 --> 00:40:46.150 That would only be bad if you decapitated the pigeon 926 00:40:46.170 --> 00:40:48.789 yourself and lay it there to surprise him. 927 00:40:49.309 --> 00:40:50.570 That would be bad parenting. 928 00:40:51.409 --> 00:40:53.460 And so this is a lesson about life and death. 929 00:40:53.699 --> 00:40:55.139 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 930 00:40:55.460 --> 00:40:58.480 Do you, you're a very positive person. I actually have 931 00:40:58.619 --> 00:41:01.199 never really probably asked you about this, but like, I 932 00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:05.119 don't see you and Claire arguing much, even in these 933 00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:10.690 heightened kind of emotional situations. Is that, because you've got 934 00:41:10.710 --> 00:41:12.489 to be positive in all situations, right? 935 00:41:13.300 --> 00:41:16.679 Yeah so i mean obviously you you have points where 936 00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:22.280 you're stressed and um you're maybe sort of shorter than 937 00:41:22.300 --> 00:41:24.960 you should be or it happens to be but it's 938 00:41:25.039 --> 00:41:28.489 all we we resolve things very very quickly and um 939 00:41:29.409 --> 00:41:31.630 we don't sort of we don't let things linger or 940 00:41:31.670 --> 00:41:33.630 hang so we yeah we don't really so nothing really 941 00:41:34.269 --> 00:41:36.710 never really spirals into an argument at all i mean 942 00:41:36.730 --> 00:41:39.519 it would be lying to say that there aren't moments 943 00:41:39.539 --> 00:41:41.539 where you're both, you're exhausted, it's four in the morning, 944 00:41:41.559 --> 00:41:44.159 you're not both delighted and going, I know we're both awake, 945 00:41:44.199 --> 00:41:45.789 but at least we can snog. We're not like that. 946 00:41:45.909 --> 00:41:48.949 It's kind of weird, sort of weird with stress. Snog? 947 00:41:49.610 --> 00:41:51.590 Oh my God, the thought of me telling that to Lou, look, 948 00:41:51.610 --> 00:41:52.769 we're up anyway, fancy a bit. 949 00:41:56.110 --> 00:41:59.369 Do email in if you're the kind of couple who, 950 00:41:59.389 --> 00:42:01.179 when woken by a child in the middle of the night, 951 00:42:01.500 --> 00:42:01.960 takes the. 952 00:42:01.900 --> 00:42:04.519 Opportunity to have sex, because I don't believe in that. 953 00:42:04.619 --> 00:42:08.840 After you've settled the baby back to sleep, not to 954

00:42:08.860 --> 00:42:11.820 the chorus of them crying. I don't want that email. 955 00:42:11.889 --> 00:42:15.340 I think you should take yourself to the police. My 956 00:42:15.420 --> 00:42:18.130 eldest was a bit of a worrier sometimes. I wouldn't 957 00:42:18.170 --> 00:42:22.829 say to that extreme of the new route to school, 958 00:42:23.210 --> 00:42:23.949 but there's certain things. 959 00:42:23.989 --> 00:42:25.889 But, like, she's got a little bit better with her 960 00:42:26.179 --> 00:42:26.780 younger sister. 961 00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:29.019 She's a little bit more like yours, where a little 962 00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:33.000 bit more, like, throw herself in to things. And, actually, 963 00:42:33.159 --> 00:42:34.590 it brings the older one out of their shell a 964 00:42:34.610 --> 00:42:37.090 little bit because... they um and also you think i 965 00:42:37.110 --> 00:42:38.789 was quite was quite anxious for our first born i 966 00:42:38.809 --> 00:42:40.170 think they do pick up on it a little bit 967 00:42:40.190 --> 00:42:42.449 but the second one obviously you're more relaxed for they 968 00:42:42.489 --> 00:42:44.670 sometimes bring it out their shell because if she goes 969 00:42:44.690 --> 00:42:46.269 well i'll do that then the older one goes well 970 00:42:46.289 --> 00:42:47.530 i should be asked to do that because she's younger 971 00:42:47.550 --> 00:42:49.449 than me and she's doing it so it might sort 972 00:42:49.510 --> 00:42:51.019 of they might help each other out a little bit 973 00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:51.539 if you know what. 974 00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:53.059 I mean no i think i think that's definitely the 975 00:42:53.099 --> 00:42:55.860 case and i think that's true about the experience of 976 00:42:55.960 --> 00:42:57.940 not being less anxious second time around i mean this 977 00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:01.690 last year has gone I can't believe that our one-year-old 978 00:43:01.730 --> 00:43:04.730 is now one. I can't believe that it's gone so fast. 979 00:43:04.789 --> 00:43:07.110 But the experience of the first time around is those 980 00:43:07.179 --> 00:43:12.179 weeks can feel very slow. Especially using lockdown, wasn't you? 981 00:43:14.579 --> 00:43:16.780 Two years, that's quite an important time, isn't it? From 982 00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:19.829 the age of one to three. Those two years are 983 00:43:19.849 --> 00:43:22.349 very important, aren't they? With socialising and stuff and groups 984 00:43:22.409 --> 00:43:22.889 and play. 985 00:43:23.380 --> 00:43:25.030 Yeah so a lot of that wasn't there and then 986 00:43:25.050 --> 00:43:26.550 you had sort of periods where you remember you had 987 00:43:26.570 --> 00:43:28.849 to self-isolate for like 14 days i think they had 988 00:43:28.869 --> 00:43:31.130 to do that like three times with charlie and all 989 00:43:31.150 --> 00:43:33.170 these sort of things and those are quite strange experiences 990 00:43:33.230 --> 00:43:36.030 early on but uh

but i do i do think 991 00:43:36.050 --> 00:43:38.190 the second time around it sort of goes much quicker 992 00:43:38.210 --> 00:43:41.250 because i remember you'd count down the days oh if 993 00:43:41.269 --> 00:43:42.670 we can make it to three weeks all this sort 994 00:43:42.690 --> 00:43:43.929 of stuff when we get to a month things will 995 00:43:43.949 --> 00:43:46.360 be much easier all that sort of stuff first time 996 00:43:46.699 --> 00:43:48.380 do you do you have do you have your kids 997 00:43:48.659 --> 00:43:51.599 occasionally they'll sort of if they're annoyed at you they'll 998 00:43:52.750 --> 00:43:55.070 it's that, well, we're not friends anymore. I don't love you. 999 00:43:55.090 --> 00:43:57.269 There's all this sort of stuff they chuck in. He 1000 00:43:57.289 --> 00:44:00.170 was saying the other day, a bedtime, like a week ago, 1001 00:44:00.650 --> 00:44:03.269 he wanted Claire to do it, but Claire was upstairs 1002 00:44:03.329 --> 00:44:06.210 with Pip and I was doing his bedtime. He was saying, no, daddy, 1003 00:44:06.329 --> 00:44:08.030 you know, I don't want you here. I'm going to 1004 00:44:08.050 --> 00:44:09.869 put you in the neighbor's garden. He kept saying that. 1005 00:44:09.929 --> 00:44:11.750 I'm going to put you in the neighbor's garden, which 1006 00:44:11.869 --> 00:44:13.170 is quite, I don't know if that's, at least I'll 1007 00:44:13.190 --> 00:44:14.670 be close by. I suppose that's quite sweet. 1008 00:44:14.750 --> 00:44:17.860 Okay, you should, I'll drive past the graffiti to complete 1009 00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:18.820 that game. 1010 00:44:18.860 --> 00:44:19.719 Get back in his head. 1011 00:44:20.179 --> 00:44:23.300 Already that testing, that pushing, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. 1012 00:44:23.380 --> 00:44:24.960 I think I'm all right with it. Do you know 1013 00:44:24.980 --> 00:44:28.059 the problem with it now is my daughter, when she 1014 00:44:28.139 --> 00:44:31.519 says stuff like you're not my best friend anymore, it's 1015 00:44:31.639 --> 00:44:32.460 quite funny. 1016 00:44:32.619 --> 00:44:33.199 Yeah, it is. 1017 00:44:33.239 --> 00:44:36.570 So it's mainly trying to keep a straight face because 1018 00:44:36.610 --> 00:44:39.050 I know it's very serious for her. But for me, 1019 00:44:39.090 --> 00:44:41.809 I'm like, she sounds like such an idiot that I 1020 00:44:41.849 --> 00:44:47.030 do find it quite funny because it's like. It's so, she's, 1021 00:44:47.090 --> 00:44:49.360 I don't know, there's something about how dramatic it is, 1022 00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:52.420 the slightly weird phrasing, the fact she's decided that that's 1023 00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:54.639 the thing that's going to hurt me. It's difficult for 1024 00:44:54.679 --> 00:44:56.699 me to keep a straight face in that situation. Does 1025 00:44:56.719 --> 00:44:57.619 that make me a monster? 1026 00:44:57.940 --> 00:45:00.010 No, I think you have to accept because they go, 1027 00:45:00.030 --> 00:45:01.690 you're not my friend anymore. And I go, okay, yeah, 1028 00:45:01.710 --> 00:45:04.750 friends come and go. Sometimes you've got friends, sometimes you haven't. 1029 00:45:04.809 --> 00:45:06.269 There'll be new ones around the court and try and 1030 00:45:06.289 --> 00:45:08.730 make it more flippant. Well, because it means so much 1031 00:45:08.769 --> 00:45:11.250 when they're little. Because that's what I. 1032 00:45:11.260 --> 00:45:12.219 Because my. 1033 00:45:12.139 --> 00:45:14.880 Daughter sometimes struggles to sleep and gets a bit like, oh, 1034 00:45:14.940 --> 00:45:16.619 I'll have bad dreams, I'll have nightmares, and all that 1035 00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:19.010 kind of stuff. But I used to go a bit like, 1036 00:45:19.949 --> 00:45:21.789 you know, really sort of like a woke. 1037 00:45:21.630 --> 00:45:23.230 Parent and be like... Let's talk it through. 1038 00:45:23.269 --> 00:45:23.469 Yeah. 1039 00:45:23.510 --> 00:45:26.469 So how do you feel? But actually, sometimes you're better 1040 00:45:26.510 --> 00:45:28.570 off just going, just fucking ignore it. Like you don't, 1041 00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:32.219 you can over, especially with anxiety. Personally, if I talk 1042 00:45:32.260 --> 00:45:34.139 about something for ages, it makes it worse. I just 1043 00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:35.739 need to get on with it and do it. So 1044 00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:38.260 I think sometimes you can get yourself in a worse 1045 00:45:38.300 --> 00:45:41.119 position by talking about it too much and allowing it 1046 00:45:41.159 --> 00:45:43.650 to fester because you sort of legitimize it then. And 1047 00:45:43.670 --> 00:45:45.949 that's what we found. And then recently she said, oh, 1048 00:45:46.150 --> 00:45:47.690 I can't go to sleep because my brain's telling me this. 1049 00:45:47.889 --> 00:45:49.909 And I went, that voice in your head, she was like, 1050 00:45:49.929 --> 00:45:50.550 just ignore it. 1051 00:45:50.929 --> 00:45:53.170 It's just a suggestion. Just ignore it. It's just being silly. 1052 00:45:53.190 --> 00:45:53.760 It's stupid. 1053 00:45:53.820 --> 00:45:54.280 Ignore it. 1054 00:45:54.579 --> 00:45:56.780 And try and go down that route rather than going 1055 00:45:56.820 --> 00:45:58.699 and trying to find the root cause of why there's 1056 00:45:58.739 --> 00:45:59.179 that voice. 1057 00:45:59.239 --> 00:46:01.369 You know what I mean? Otherwise you turn into me. 1058 00:46:02.539 --> 00:46:06.599 Otherwise you turn into me constantly analysing every moment for 1059 00:46:07.260 --> 00:46:08.059 shame or. 1060 00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:13.079 Worry for their whole life. Well, that's what I was doing. 1061 00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:15.719 I was going, but why do you feel like that? 1062 00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:17.880 Stop searching for an answer and just sort of try 1063 00:46:17.900 --> 00:46:20.239 and shut it down or distract from it. Like when 1064 00:46:20.300 --> 00:46:22.480 I was talking before, my

daughter said, I don't care 1065 00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:24.420 about you and wouldn't hold my hand. And then I 1066 00:46:24.420 --> 00:46:27.280 was just saying like, okay, don't hold my hand and 1067 00:46:27.300 --> 00:46:29.219 that's fine. And now she started holding my hand. She went, 1068 00:46:29.449 --> 00:46:31.349 I'm holding your hand, but with my sleeve, not my hand. 1069 00:46:31.849 --> 00:46:34.550 And I was like, oh, okay, yeah, fine. Let's do 1070 00:46:34.590 --> 00:46:36.630 that if you want. And it actually had more of 1071 00:46:36.690 --> 00:46:38.260 an impact than talking about it. 1072 00:46:39.989 --> 00:46:41.849 I love it when kids come up with those sort of, 1073 00:46:42.110 --> 00:46:45.849 those loophole things. We were doing Charlie's potty training a 1074 00:46:45.849 --> 00:46:47.949 little while ago. And we did one of those sort 1075 00:46:47.969 --> 00:46:50.340 of things where you get, if you do it five times, 1076 00:46:50.360 --> 00:46:51.800 you get five stickers and you've got to get a 1077 00:46:51.820 --> 00:46:53.480 magazine from the shop at the top of the rows. 1078 00:46:53.500 --> 00:46:55.059 We put this poster on the wall and every time 1079 00:46:55.079 --> 00:46:58.300 he got five stickers, he'd get a magazine basically. And 1080 00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:03.550 then I noticed he was breaking up one single toilet 1081 00:47:03.570 --> 00:47:06.829 stop into a number as a way of getting quite 1082 00:47:06.869 --> 00:47:07.750 a few stars. 1083 00:47:08.929 --> 00:47:13.929 So he's causing himself some kind of long-term piles or 1084 00:47:13.989 --> 00:47:15.639 something by doing that kind of. 1085 00:47:15.829 --> 00:47:17.269 No, no, he'd go and do a bit of a 1086 00:47:17.269 --> 00:47:18.769 wee or whatever he was doing and then he'd come 1087 00:47:18.829 --> 00:47:20.110 to me and he'd go, can I have a start? 1088 00:47:20.130 --> 00:47:21.809 And I'd go, yeah. And then he'd go and finish 1089 00:47:21.849 --> 00:47:24.130 the wee and he'd come back and get. 1090 00:47:24.090 --> 00:47:27.860 A second start. The bladder control of a three-year-old, that 1091 00:47:27.889 --> 00:47:28.739 is incredible. 1092 00:47:28.760 --> 00:47:30.119 It is, yeah, it's amazing. 1093 00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:32.920 When does he start school, Tom? Is it this September 1094 00:47:32.940 --> 00:47:33.519 or next September? 1095 00:47:33.539 --> 00:47:35.539 He starts in September, this September, yeah, yeah. 1096 00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:38.239 Is he excited about that or is he a bit worried? 1097 00:47:38.280 --> 00:47:40.340 How do you feel about him going to big school? 1098 00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:45.179 He's feeling okay. I mean, there's friends from his nursery 1099 00:47:45.199 --> 00:47:48.400 that are going. That's good. And he's quite an... I 1100 00:47:48.420 --> 00:47:52.119 suppose your crime is quite eccentric with you, Josh. He's 1101 00:47:52.139 --> 00:47:54.409 quite an unusual sort of child. He's very sort of 1102 00:47:54.449 --> 00:47:57.030 independent and always wanted to play his own little game, 1103 00:47:57.070 --> 00:48:00.909 stuff like this. But it's really getting a good friendship 1104 00:48:00.949 --> 00:48:03.800 group now as well, which is lovely. So it's kind of, 1105 00:48:03.809 --> 00:48:06.030 because you worry, oh, well, he'll be on his own 1106 00:48:06.050 --> 00:48:07.769 a little bit, but it's really not proving to be 1107 00:48:07.789 --> 00:48:10.829 that case. And I think it's providing him, he's really 1108 00:48:10.869 --> 00:48:13.969 pleased that his friends are going there. Oh, that's nice. 1109 00:48:14.269 --> 00:48:17.389 He's excited about it. Yeah, he is. Yeah, I'm excited 1110 00:48:17.429 --> 00:48:18.030 about it as well. 1111 00:48:18.510 --> 00:48:21.739 I'm quite nervous. I'm very nervous about my daughter going 1112 00:48:21.780 --> 00:48:22.719 to school. Really? 1113 00:48:22.739 --> 00:48:22.920 Yeah. 1114 00:48:24.139 --> 00:48:26.639 Yeah, I find it very stressful, the thought of, like, 1115 00:48:26.679 --> 00:48:29.539 that first day or the drop-off. I think it's probably 1116 00:48:30.059 --> 00:48:32.099 much bigger in my head than it is in hers. 1117 00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:34.059 They'll totally feed off you. 1118 00:48:34.300 --> 00:48:36.900 Me and Lou had this conversation of just, like, just 1119 00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:40.099 don't keep talking, don't change, just be very calm and 1120 00:48:40.119 --> 00:48:42.539 just let it go. Because you can be like, oh, no, 1121 00:48:42.559 --> 00:48:45.760 let me see your uniform. And they feed off your stress. 1122 00:48:46.219 --> 00:48:46.440 Yeah. 1123 00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:47.179 100%. 1124 00:48:47.179 --> 00:48:49.519 So I think the best thing you can do is 1125 00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:51.280 try and be calm within yourself. 1126 00:48:51.739 --> 00:48:53.380 I've barely mentioned it to her, but that's because I'm 1127 00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:55.320 trying to bury it down deep inside my own worries. 1128 00:48:56.719 --> 00:48:58.150 You've gone too far the other way. 1129 00:48:58.829 --> 00:49:00.250 I've gone too far the other way. 1130 00:49:00.269 --> 00:49:03.030 So how calm do you mean? Do you mean sort 1131 00:49:03.050 --> 00:49:05.349 of like barely giving them a nod at the school 1132 00:49:05.369 --> 00:49:08.019 gate when you drop them off the first day? 1133 00:49:08.050 --> 00:49:08.849 No, not at all. 1134 00:49:09.630 --> 00:49:11.789 But it's that sort of like, when you're walking in, 1135 00:49:11.789 --> 00:49:14.110 don't grab their hand and walk them in unless they 1136 00:49:14.110 --> 00:49:15.159 want to grab your hand. 1137 00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:18.119 You know what I mean? Stuff like that. Don't, be there. 1138 00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:20.820 For them, but don't be like, and then like, and 1139 00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:23.059 then me and Lou were like, well, don't go this way. 1140 00:49:23.219 -->

00:49:27.159 We're sort of bickering because we're stressed about, and it 1141 00:49:27.239 --> 00:49:30.690 isn't our kids starting school. It's our baby being a grownup, 1142 00:49:30.929 --> 00:49:34.090 you know, becoming a girl, like a proper kid. That's 1143 00:49:34.150 --> 00:49:36.150 what is distressed. Not that she's got to sit in 1144 00:49:36.190 --> 00:49:37.650 a room with a group of kids in all the 1145 00:49:37.670 --> 00:49:40.030 same clothes. which essentially is what it is, isn't it? 1146 00:49:40.269 --> 00:49:41.389 She's going to sit in a room with loads of 1147 00:49:41.409 --> 00:49:43.340 other kids her age, which will be fun, in the 1148 00:49:43.380 --> 00:49:45.960 same clothes and be excited and love it. But we 1149 00:49:45.980 --> 00:49:47.940 were telling each other, like, no, no, no, we're giving 1150 00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:49.559 each other a look. Now, we're getting stressed because of 1151 00:49:49.860 --> 00:49:52.300 something else and then they'll pick up on that kind 1152 00:49:52.340 --> 00:49:54.079 of thing. But, yeah, not just, like, launch them out 1153 00:49:54.099 --> 00:49:55.880 of the car and speed off listening to 80s music. 1154 00:49:55.900 --> 00:50:00.739 LAUGHTER Sayonara. You're on your own now, mate. 1155 00:50:00.909 --> 00:50:03.550 Yeah, of course. I mean, because my memories of primary 1156 00:50:03.570 --> 00:50:05.809 school was a joy to me. I loved primary school. 1157 00:50:05.849 --> 00:50:07.750 Secondary school was the one. Secondary school is the one 1158 00:50:07.769 --> 00:50:08.429 you want to worry about. 1159 00:50:09.230 --> 00:50:12.090 You think this is bad, mate? 1160 00:50:12.110 --> 00:50:17.880 That could be really difficult. I once caught my reflection, Josh, 1161 00:50:17.960 --> 00:50:20.500 in year 10 in a mirror in the toilets and 1162 00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:22.820 my spots were so bad that I just walked home. 1163 00:50:23.030 --> 00:50:25.780 I just left. I just went home. Oh, Tom. I 1164 00:50:25.780 --> 00:50:27.690 was like, I can't, I can't, I can't be around 1165 00:50:27.710 --> 00:50:29.130 like this. I'm just going to walk home. So that's 1166 00:50:29.150 --> 00:50:31.190 what I did. Got back on the bus. Went all 1167 00:50:31.210 --> 00:50:33.710 the way back home. Oh, no. Hit the top of 1168 00:50:33.750 --> 00:50:35.070 Banner downhill and went home at half three. 1169 00:50:35.130 --> 00:50:35.429 That's true. 1170 00:50:35.650 --> 00:50:37.150 Anyway. Skybit. 1171 00:50:37.170 --> 00:50:38.690 Skybit. 1172 00:50:38.789 --> 00:50:41.590 It's remarkable how your son's like this, a little bit 1173 00:50:41.630 --> 00:50:42.289 nervous of things. 1174 00:50:44.630 --> 00:50:44.849 It's mad. 1175 00:50:44.889 --> 00:50:45.869 Can't see where it's come from. 1176 00:50:45.889 --> 00:50:48.650 It's real bold out of the blue. 1177 00:50:51.090 --> 00:50:53.929 Do you feel like he's you and Pip is Claire? 1178 00:50:54.860 --> 00:50:59.130 Yes, I do. Yeah, I do. I think Charlie's so 1179 00:50:59.170 --> 00:51:02.369 much like me. Yeah, he thinks about things a lot 1180 00:51:02.650 --> 00:51:04.469 and kind of, you were saying there, Josh, about how 1181 00:51:04.489 --> 00:51:08.409 you sort of overanalyze things. I definitely have that. I like, 1182 00:51:09.030 --> 00:51:10.980 sometimes I really stress I have to, as you know, 1183 00:51:11.239 --> 00:51:12.880 I lie down in the shower. This is my thing. 1184 00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:14.280 I'll put the shower on and I'll lie down in 1185 00:51:14.300 --> 00:51:16.119 the shower and I'll sort of like go over everything 1186 00:51:16.139 --> 00:51:17.000 that's sort of worried me. 1187 00:51:17.340 --> 00:51:19.940 But I do hope I'm not- Face down or face up? 1188 00:51:20.699 --> 00:51:22.239 It depends how bad the day's been, Rob, to be honest. 1189 00:51:22.300 --> 00:51:30.099 It's- increasingly face down um yeah but but i i 1190 00:51:30.179 --> 00:51:32.480 would say that i i'm i would like to think 1191 00:51:32.519 --> 00:51:35.199 i'm not imparting this on him i actively am not 1192 00:51:35.460 --> 00:51:36.960 trying to be worried i'm not like that. 1193 00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:38.739 I'm not really oh no of course no. 1194 00:51:38.539 --> 00:51:41.070 But but it's it's interesting that he does still he 1195 00:51:41.110 --> 00:51:43.409 has those those traits and it's you see them but 1196 00:51:43.530 --> 00:51:46.349 pip is far more just like stubborn and kind of 1197 00:51:46.389 --> 00:51:47.889 has these so i'm gonna you know claire has these 1198 00:51:48.150 --> 00:51:51.239 traits as she would admit uh Let's go. So it's 1199 00:51:51.260 --> 00:51:53.519 kind of, yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting. But you know what? 1200 00:51:53.539 --> 00:51:54.039 I love them both. 1201 00:51:54.099 --> 00:51:55.039 I love them both. You know that. 1202 00:51:55.460 --> 00:51:57.260 Well, no, we do that. Me and Lou have been 1203 00:51:57.280 --> 00:51:57.800 trying to do that. 1204 00:51:57.860 --> 00:52:01.059 Like when you see spiders in the house and Lou's like, 1205 00:52:01.139 --> 00:52:04.360 like that. And then like the kids start going, and 1206 00:52:04.389 --> 00:52:06.590 I'm like, Lou, if you didn't scream, they wouldn't have 1207 00:52:06.610 --> 00:52:07.070 screamed there. 1208 00:52:07.989 --> 00:52:10.010 They are literally copying your scream. 1209 00:52:10.230 --> 00:52:12.329 Yeah, yeah. So Charlie is now freaked out by the 1210 00:52:12.369 --> 00:52:14.809 butterflies we were talking about earlier at London Zoo because 1211 00:52:15.190 --> 00:52:18.500 Claire has a genuine phobia of butterflies. tried to deal 1212 00:52:18.519 --> 00:52:20.769 with it and take him through it and just failed completely. 1213 00:52:20.809 --> 00:52:23.469 Just freaked out when these monarchs were landing on her 1214 00:52:23.489 --> 00:52:27.139 or whatever. And he's now, Charlie's like, Oh God, And 1215 00:52:27.159 -->

00:52:28.719 I'm trying to go, these things are small, they can't 1216 00:52:28.760 --> 00:52:33.340 hurt you. But he's seen Claire react like a lion's gone. 1217 00:52:33.619 --> 00:52:35.360 In many ways, when you're saying they're small and can't 1218 00:52:35.420 --> 00:52:39.019 hurt you, you're undermining his mum, Craig. But you've made 1219 00:52:39.039 --> 00:52:40.900 the decision it's more important that he's not scared of 1220 00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:44.750 butterflies than he respects his mum. That's the decision you've 1221 00:52:44.769 --> 00:52:45.289 made there. 1222 00:52:45.309 --> 00:52:47.369 Yeah, but it's butterflies, isn't it? I mean, come on. 1223 00:52:48.070 --> 00:52:50.869 Well, I've had to do that with theme parks and 1224 00:52:50.889 --> 00:52:53.329 stuff like that and rides. I hate any rides like that, 1225 00:52:53.349 --> 00:52:55.210 but they want to go on stuff. So it's only 1226 00:52:55.230 --> 00:52:57.050 the little dragon ride at Legoland, but that was a 1227 00:52:57.130 --> 00:52:59.349 huge deal for me. And the kids were like bold 1228 00:52:59.389 --> 00:53:00.889 on it, didn't give a shit. And I'm like, oh, yeah, 1229 00:53:00.929 --> 00:53:03.139 next one. And I'm like hyperventilating, trying to find an 1230 00:53:03.179 --> 00:53:03.719 asthma pump. 1231 00:53:03.940 --> 00:53:06.039 Oh, my God. I've done the dragon ride. 1232 00:53:06.099 --> 00:53:10.199 It's so pathetic, but trying to hold it together so much. But, like, 1233 00:53:10.219 --> 00:53:12.480 you're supposed to be open and honest with your kids, 1234 00:53:12.500 --> 00:53:15.780 but then also I'm completely bottling it up and petrified 1235 00:53:16.190 --> 00:53:17.550 going on this fucking ride. 1236 00:53:17.670 --> 00:53:19.449 Like, it can't be the right thing to do, can it? 1237 00:53:19.469 --> 00:53:22.510 Have you... When we talked about earlier about worry, can 1238 00:53:22.530 --> 00:53:23.690 I ask you something? I don't know if either of 1239 00:53:23.750 --> 00:53:26.489 you have done this. When you're reading stories to your kids, 1240 00:53:26.690 --> 00:53:28.920 if there's bits in there that... Do you sort of 1241 00:53:28.929 --> 00:53:31.059 redact parts of the story? If there are bits that 1242 00:53:31.099 --> 00:53:33.300 are sort of worrying a bit? I've done that with... Yeah, 1243 00:53:33.380 --> 00:53:34.599 I'm not alone in that, am I? 1244 00:53:34.619 --> 00:53:37.820 You know those ones you get where it's like famous people? 1245 00:53:38.059 --> 00:53:39.960 So it's like inspirational famous people. 1246 00:53:40.019 --> 00:53:40.719 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1247 00:53:41.179 --> 00:53:43.969 They're like a classic Christmas gift you'd receive. 1248 00:53:44.070 --> 00:53:44.210 Yes. 1249 00:53:44.650 --> 00:53:47.409 So we've got the Ella Fitzgerald one. 1250 00:53:47.429 --> 00:53:47.869 Okay. 1251 00:53:48.250 --> 00:53:51.150 Where her mum is killed in a road accident. 1252 00:53:51.230 --> 00:53:51.809 Oh, God. 1253 00:53:51.869 --> 00:53:57.860 And then she's put into a home for orphans, and 1254 00:53:57.900 --> 00:54:01.320 then they treat her really badly, so she leaves. Oh, wow. 1255 00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:05.730 It's a straight... So what do you skip to? Well, 1256 00:54:05.769 --> 00:54:08.969 I'd been great at jazz singing. That's the main body 1257 00:54:08.989 --> 00:54:11.409 of the book. But yeah. 1258 00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:14.380 Yeah. So it's with Stickman. Stickman's the one with us. 1259 00:54:14.420 --> 00:54:16.659 So there's a bit where Stickman's frozen in the snow, 1260 00:54:16.719 --> 00:54:18.619 which we can't. We can't read another bit where he's 1261 00:54:18.639 --> 00:54:21.119 putting the greats. So all these bits are skipped. 1262 00:54:21.179 --> 00:54:23.320 You know them stories about people, you know, we've got 1263 00:54:23.340 --> 00:54:25.530 that Amelia Earhart one, because it's about a lot of 1264 00:54:25.550 --> 00:54:26.949 them about like famous women. 1265 00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:29.010 Oh yeah, she dies. Yeah, so she dies. 1266 00:54:29.309 --> 00:54:31.949 But the whole thing's about how she's an amazing pilot 1267 00:54:32.090 --> 00:54:35.010 and stuff like that. But she dies flying the fucking plane. 1268 00:54:35.369 --> 00:54:36.170 So how good is she? 1269 00:54:36.190 --> 00:54:36.969 I don't know. 1270 00:54:39.550 --> 00:54:41.260 I don't want to put up with a story. 1271 00:54:41.300 --> 00:54:42.460 You had one job, Amelia. 1272 00:54:42.980 --> 00:54:44.000 It's good. 1273 00:54:44.239 --> 00:54:45.840 She's trying to go around the world in one go. 1274 00:54:45.900 --> 00:54:49.840 It's a fair play. But you sort of think, oh, right, okay. 1275 00:54:50.099 --> 00:54:51.690 So she was really sick, but she didn't do it. 1276 00:54:53.179 --> 00:54:55.909 That's the real lesson. Never dream. Never dream. 1277 00:54:56.710 --> 00:55:00.050 Basically, what they need, they need kids' books. Ultimately, it's 1278 00:55:00.070 --> 00:55:03.230 depending on what your child's like. So it can be 1279 00:55:03.269 --> 00:55:04.250 a really soft ending. 1280 00:55:04.289 --> 00:55:05.639 Also known as propaganda. 1281 00:55:05.659 --> 00:55:05.739 Yeah. 1282 00:55:07.139 --> 00:55:11.639 Let's just change it to what feels best and everything was. 1283 00:55:11.579 --> 00:55:14.769 All okay you know you could have stick man on 1284 00:55:14.789 --> 00:55:17.030 a pyre of sort of burning sticks at the end 1285 00:55:17.110 --> 00:55:17.710 losing all his. 1286 00:55:17.690 --> 00:55:21.989 Friends that's not too bad is it falling in a 1287 00:55:22.010 --> 00:55:24.090 bit of water that's what happened to amelia to be 1288 00:55:24.130 --> 00:55:25.719 fair it depends on the height. 1289 00:55:28.920 --> 00:55:32.119 As a man tom that struggles to criticize yeah which 1290 00:55:32.139 --> 00:55:34.940 is an admiral trait okay I think you'll struggle with 1291 00:55:35.000 -->

00:55:37.179 our final question, which is why I'm so excited about 1292 00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:37.840 asking it. 1293 00:55:37.860 --> 00:55:38.079 Okay, yeah. 1294 00:55:38.619 --> 00:55:41.889 Which is, we always like to end by asking, based 1295 00:55:41.949 --> 00:55:45.210 on Matthew Crosby, his wife listens to the podcast, so 1296 00:55:45.230 --> 00:55:48.489 we gave him the opportunity to say something his wife 1297 00:55:48.550 --> 00:55:51.050 does that annoys him that he hasn't said to her. 1298 00:55:51.750 --> 00:55:53.349 What one thing does Claire do? 1299 00:55:53.369 --> 00:55:54.670 Does Claire listen? 1300 00:55:54.730 --> 00:55:55.429 As a parent. 1301 00:55:56.050 --> 00:55:59.550 Yes, he does. He does, yeah. Claire loves it. What 1302 00:55:59.840 --> 00:56:04.949 one thing does Claire do that annoys me? I generally 1303 00:56:05.030 --> 00:56:07.710 am struggling to think of, um, okay, I've got it. 1304 00:56:07.769 --> 00:56:09.860 I've got it. I do have the thing. I do 1305 00:56:09.900 --> 00:56:12.440 have the thing. It's not really a noise, but this 1306 00:56:12.519 --> 00:56:15.880 is definitely true that when we are, when we go 1307 00:56:15.940 --> 00:56:21.510 out to a social thing together as parents, uh, I'm 1308 00:56:21.739 --> 00:56:26.400 always the one who's entertaining the children. But I don't 1309 00:56:26.440 --> 00:56:28.960 just mean my children. I mean, it seems to be 1310 00:56:28.980 --> 00:56:31.559 that I'm lumbered with lots and lots of children when 1311 00:56:31.579 --> 00:56:34.400 we go to a thing. So we went out for 1312 00:56:35.300 --> 00:56:38.119 Sunday lunch maybe a fortnight ago with some people. And 1313 00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:39.900 then there was a point at the end where I 1314 00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:41.800 was down one end of the table. You know, like 1315 00:56:41.820 --> 00:56:43.440 at a wedding, you have a kid's table. It was 1316 00:56:43.480 --> 00:56:46.920 me and six children and someone's baby. I didn't even 1317 00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:49.349 know who the baby was. There was a baby with us. 1318 00:56:50.159 --> 00:56:52.190 And everyone else was getting pissed at the other end 1319 00:56:52.210 --> 00:56:55.030 of the table, like slapping each other's backs. And we 1320 00:56:55.050 --> 00:56:57.710 were well over time and I'm playing sort of the 1321 00:56:57.750 --> 00:56:58.590 farmyard animals. 1322 00:56:58.650 --> 00:57:01.010 Oh, that is annoying, isn't it? Yeah. 1323 00:57:01.369 --> 00:57:03.670 So that, that would be it. But then I wouldn't, 1324 00:57:03.690 --> 00:57:06.090 it doesn't really annoy me, annoy me, annoy me. 1325 00:57:06.210 --> 00:57:07.269 Is that Claire's fault? 1326 00:57:07.750 --> 00:57:08.010 No. 1327 00:57:08.030 --> 00:57:10.570 So to be honest, I don't think it is. I think, 1328 00:57:10.610 --> 00:57:12.010 I think that's more on me. So I don't think 1329 00:57:12.030 --> 00:57:14.400 that's even her. I think that's more, the question should 1330 00:57:14.420 --> 00:57:18.320 be what sort of part of my personality annoys me most. 1331 00:57:19.170 --> 00:57:24.670 And that would be my absolute failure. Desperation to please children. Yeah, exactly. 1332 00:57:24.690 --> 00:57:25.190 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1333 00:57:25.659 --> 00:57:27.679 But, you know, it is what it is. But I 1334 00:57:27.699 --> 00:57:28.500 wouldn't say it really was. 1335 00:57:28.579 --> 00:57:31.079 I sometimes see, if I'm in a social situation where 1336 00:57:31.099 --> 00:57:34.619 I can't be bothered and there's kids, I sometimes see 1337 00:57:34.659 --> 00:57:36.389 entertaining the kids as a really good out. 1338 00:57:37.179 --> 00:57:37.250 Yes. 1339 00:57:37.260 --> 00:57:37.980 Do you know what I mean? 1340 00:57:38.320 --> 00:57:39.059 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1341 00:57:39.300 --> 00:57:43.409 But on other times, you'll just be at drinks in 1342 00:57:43.449 --> 00:57:46.909 an afternoon and you've got a two-year-old and they just 1343 00:57:46.969 --> 00:57:49.989 want to push a pram up and down a stair. 1344 00:57:50.010 --> 00:57:50.090 Yeah. 1345 00:57:50.530 --> 00:57:54.469 For an hour inside while everyone's outside at a barbecue. 1346 00:57:54.510 --> 00:57:56.730 That is the slowest time ever moves. 1347 00:57:57.090 --> 00:57:58.429 No, no, but that's good though if you don't want 1348 00:57:58.449 --> 00:58:00.280 to be with the other people. If you don't want 1349 00:58:00.300 --> 00:58:01.400 to be the other people, that's the perfect job. If 1350 00:58:01.429 --> 00:58:02.739 you don't want to be there, it's great. 1351 00:58:03.099 --> 00:58:05.699 If you do want to be there, it's heartbreaking. You 1352 00:58:05.719 --> 00:58:07.980 can just see in the distance everyone having a wonderful 1353 00:58:08.039 --> 00:58:10.800 time through the kind of French doors you can see. 1354 00:58:10.820 --> 00:58:13.980 They're all partying away in the garden. 1355 00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:19.619 They're all kissing and dancing and rolling around in the grass. Yeah, no, definitely. Well, 1356 00:58:19.719 --> 00:58:23.820 I missed the first goal, Luke Shaw's goal in the final, 1357 00:58:24.139 --> 00:58:25.739 in the Euros final. 1358 00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:28.710 Oh, I've got it on catch-up. Spoiler alert. I've got 1359 00:58:28.750 --> 00:58:29.449 that on catch-up. 1360 00:58:29.469 --> 00:58:30.699 Please don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't ruin it. 1361 00:58:30.710 --> 00:58:32.389 I haven't watched the final yet. I'm waiting for it. 1362 00:58:33.309 --> 00:58:33.789 So you missed it. 1363 00:58:33.789 --> 00:58:34.929 You were too drunk to remember it, Rob. 1364 00:58:34.949 --> 00:58:37.969 I missed it because I was upstairs. This is my 1365 00:58:38.010 --> 00:58:40.050 own child, of course, admittedly, but upstairs trying to sort 1366 00:58:40.070 --> 00:58:42.039 of settle Pip and get Pip back to sleep. Of course, 1367 00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:43.460 I was trying to get one of my

children to sleep. 1368 00:58:43.940 --> 00:58:46.320 when uh the one moment of joy in 90 minutes 1369 00:58:46.340 --> 00:58:49.079 was occurring but uh yes it is you got did. 1370 00:58:49.059 --> 00:58:51.699 You got there back in time for the penalties i 1371 00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:53.599 did yeah yeah should have. 1372 00:58:53.539 --> 00:58:56.639 Stayed up there to be honest but uh yeah oh 1373 00:58:56.659 --> 00:58:59.650 cheers it's been amazing thank you so much absolute pleasure 1374 00:58:59.730 --> 00:59:01.530 hopefully get some sleep do you know what i reckon 1375 00:59:01.550 --> 00:59:04.010 you're one good sleep away from it just clicking. 1376 00:59:04.150 --> 00:59:07.469 Yes yeah yeah One plus thing from Charlie this morning, 1377 00:59:07.489 --> 00:59:09.840 he did a poo in the potty this morning, pointed 1378 00:59:09.880 --> 00:59:11.519 it and said, look, it's a number seven. So he's 1379 00:59:11.539 --> 00:59:13.000 learning his numbers and he looked at it and it 1380 00:59:13.019 --> 00:59:13.800 was the shape of a seven. 1381 00:59:13.820 --> 00:59:14.380 Oh, that's good. 1382 00:59:14.440 --> 00:59:16.380 So something's happening. So he's clearly bright. 1383 00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:18.860 He thought it looked like a number seven. That wasn't 1384 00:59:18.880 --> 00:59:19.579 his way of saying. 1385 00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:20.840 A number one or a number two. No, it was 1386 00:59:20.860 --> 00:59:22.800 a number seven. It looked exactly like a number seven. 1387 00:59:22.840 --> 00:59:24.539 He was correct. So he may not be sleeping, but 1388 00:59:24.559 --> 00:59:26.219 he knows his numbers. So that's good. 1389 00:59:26.340 --> 00:59:26.900 That's good. 1390 00:59:27.460 --> 00:59:30.389 He can shit up to ten. You don't want to 1391 00:59:30.409 --> 00:59:30.929 cling on to it. 1392 00:59:30.929 --> 00:59:32.630 The zero is quite tricky. The zero is quite tricky. 1393 00:59:35.579 --> 00:59:37.079 Tom Crane. 1394 00:59:37.099 --> 00:59:38.230 That's a story, isn't it? 1395 00:59:38.429 --> 00:59:42.389 I can't believe the sleep situation at three and a half. 1396 00:59:43.630 --> 00:59:44.670 Poor Claire and Tom. 1397 00:59:44.840 --> 00:59:49.449 It's insane, isn't it? It is so extreme. You know 1398 00:59:49.469 --> 00:59:51.380 when you're like, I've just got to get to six months. 1399 00:59:51.719 --> 00:59:53.239 Imagine going, I've just got to get to four. 1400 00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:54.300 Four years. 1401 00:59:54.340 --> 00:59:55.239 Just four years. 1402 00:59:55.619 --> 00:59:58.199 I know exactly what my dad would have done with 1403 00:59:58.219 --> 01:00:00.360 me with that graffiti. He would have gone, oh, fucking hell, 1404 01:00:00.380 --> 01:00:01.840 and just drove past it. And then I would have 1405 01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:03.920 immediately cried. And then he would have had to drive 1406 01:00:03.960 --> 01:00:06.079 the long way forever. And then my mum would have. 1407 01:00:06.019 --> 01:00:07.679 Told him off. It's a really difficult. 1408 01:00:07.719 --> 01:00:09.440 I think my dad, that's what I would have done. Yeah, 1409 01:00:09.500 --> 01:00:11.340 it's a really difficult one to know whether you should go, oh, 1410 01:00:12.139 --> 01:00:15.400 just man up. I'm not going to be your graffiti avoider. 1411 01:00:16.500 --> 01:00:19.280 I know that, like... The other day when we were 1412 01:00:19.340 --> 01:00:23.590 going out, my daughter wanted to take her toy pram. 1413 01:00:24.150 --> 01:00:26.829 And for me, I was just like, Rose is like, 1414 01:00:26.989 --> 01:00:29.210 she's absolutely not taking it. We'll end up carrying it around. 1415 01:00:29.809 --> 01:00:32.449 And I was going, oh, gosh, she's going to cry 1416 01:00:32.530 --> 01:00:35.019 when we tell her. And if Rose hadn't been there, 1417 01:00:35.519 --> 01:00:37.860 that pram was 100% coming with us. And I was 1418 01:00:37.860 --> 01:00:41.150 100% carrying it around all day. Just to avoid her crying. 1419 01:00:41.829 --> 01:00:44.110 And then Rose put her foot down. We didn't take 1420 01:00:44.130 --> 01:00:46.909 the pram. And she'd forgotten about it literally by the 1421 01:00:46.929 --> 01:00:47.710 time we were in the car. 1422 01:00:48.210 --> 01:00:50.190 Yeah, that's the thing. I think you can overdo it 1423 01:00:50.250 --> 01:00:53.650 or underdo it. It's difficult. It's hard to know. Everyone's different. 1424 01:00:53.670 --> 01:00:56.550 But yeah, Jesus Christ. It's a lot of waking up. 1425 01:00:56.849 --> 01:00:59.239 I've just got a text from Claire, Tom's girlfriend, that says, 1426 01:00:59.280 --> 01:01:01.340 I can't believe Tom dodged the what annoys you most 1427 01:01:01.380 --> 01:01:04.440 about Claire question. Poor. She must have been listening at 1428 01:01:04.460 --> 01:01:04.800 the door. 1429 01:01:05.429 --> 01:01:07.309 Or maybe. You can hear everything in that house. No 1430 01:01:07.329 --> 01:01:08.650 wonder they're not fucking sleeping. 1431 01:01:09.809 --> 01:01:11.510 Oh, by the way, they live in one big room. 1432 01:01:11.750 --> 01:01:13.730 One big room on the middle of a roundabout. Yeah, 1433 01:01:13.750 --> 01:01:17.889 with huge windows. They live at Clackett Lane. They live 1434 01:01:17.929 --> 01:01:20.429 at Clackett Lane Motorway Services off the M25. 1435 01:01:20.530 --> 01:01:23.469 No, that was great, though. Good lad, Tom. 1436 01:01:23.489 --> 01:01:26.699 Thank you to Tom. Thank you to everyone for listening. 1437 01:01:27.119 --> 01:01:29.989 And we will see you on. 1438 01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:30.400 Tuesday. 1439 01:01:30.579 --> 01:01:30.880 Tuesday.