This episode features an interview with Brother Russell, who's comedy work and social commentary focus on the strange world of American Evangelicals.  

United States


00:00:02out there Media Group presents out there radio a weekly journey into the world of the occult conspiracy theories counterculture and the bizarre undercurrents of the human psyche
00:00:24it's out there if your posts Raymond Wiley and Austin Gandy
00:00:35welcome to the season finale of Altair radio my name is Raymond Wiley and as always it's great to be here with you today pretty long show lined up course is the season finale so extra right view with the awesome the mysterious brother Russell of comedian and religious prankster type person and he will be getting his stuff later couple of things to go through a couple of housekeeping things in the end of the season and maybe sometime before we are releasing more episodes so I've got some thank you use some of the season 3 episodes
00:01:35get this series when I say ice I mean the people that worked on this series in the past season through and helped make this a really cool process in one that was actually a lot easier than it was when we made the original two seasons of the show between 2005 and 2008 James Hawk on the show James you probably never saw but he help us do a lot of the production and has production on the First episodes especially of the season and the ones that were videos so he was sort of like our Director of Photography and producer at the same time for those episodes in mini mini mini of the First episodes of this season so you can check that out
00:02:34on YouTube I knew was actually even one episode and I had a listener mention this on Facebook this week that never showed up you may not have ever even do Twin Peaks special tribute show to the television series Twin Peaks and it was just released games for all his help with all that stuff also want to thank the folks at libsyn start podcast some of the sales rep results of that sales rep for sponsoring a couple of the shows this season because stations at the end of this right the first couple of the episodes of this season and the website you see the most recent Bill to the website with Master's thesis project
00:03:34getting an MA in digital media at the University of Sussex in the UK and I was just a really great experience so cool that you can take something like podcasting turn it into a project which is exactly what I did awesome grade on that project I'm glad I was able to share it with you guys usually people do their graduate work and no one ever reads it cuz it's some obscure paper I never got back to it but in this case it was something where are the odds that process except a nap Sussex I'd like to thank a specially Martin Spinelli advisor there anyway as a background in broadcasting so let's see
00:04:21I also want to do
00:04:24can ask Matt because this particular podcast season is ending right there are new podcast for me at least coming up I'm starting up a new show called The Shadow of ideas it's a journey into the world current events politics and social justice through the lens historian and I'm sure you guys can guess who the armchair historian is in that particular description really looking forward to sharing that particular series with you guys it will premiere on May 10th 2015 it will have a much higher release frequency than this show has several weeks for the first couple of months will look to get at least two episodes of really looking forward to it in some of the episodes already have some of them in the can the first couple are going to be about the Cuban Missile Crisis so I know like right at the edge of
00:05:24Advanced Air with the Cuban Missile Crisis but I think you'll enjoy it a lot of historical recordings interviews with experts authors academic so on and so forth and some of a lot of insight into my opinions and history in context understanding understanding was definitely informed by many of the lessons that I learned creating the series over the years and I'm sure Joe and Austin would say the same so let's see the new show now so you can check that out the shadow of ideas shadow of ideas.com the show is going to be instead of me trying to get sales repping so much show me know probably be some ads but we found that we had a much better response
00:06:24so the show me have some ads but it's going to be based on a listener-supported model so I'm you can check it out at some don't be a link to it on the website it's called Patriot pledge of certain amount per month to the show and access to Google Hangouts extra podcast and I'm I'm really going to this as more of a lifestyle at least for the coming months so I hope you guys will join maybe make it once again that shadow shadow of ideas.com you guys will join me for that new series
00:07:20okay so we're Johnson thank yous one last thank you I didn't want to include in there was like I was talking about people being so kind of sad that we created this season I just want to thank him last summer that really contributed to be there be more episodes this season then perhaps I had originally slated so I really appreciate that mow so let's briefly and very briefly when I get to brother Russell discussion about the nature of religious craziness in America today and also how we have recreational context so let's
00:08:20the season alright I'm going to pull up my radio.
00:08:27Click on the season 3 link right and let's just hit some high points with you some places where I really enjoyed the show if you haven't listened to some of these episodes you might want to go back like I said guys the sex this section of the podcast is only going to last a minute or two so don't worry it's not going to end of the first season of Star Trek the Next Generation if you remember how bad that was may have been season 2 so whichever one and it was just like clips and you can tell they're like that one thing I really liked about season 3 about there was that I got a chance to introduce that were in the subject area that would normally be associated with of course
00:09:27the season with Randall Carlson he's really become far more popular than he was when we were episode has worked with Graham Hancock on Graham's upcoming book magicians of the Gods which I actually haven't been on as well so I hope you guys will will grab another one Urban exploration episode where to meet somebody who I'm very very close friends with Brian's great filmmaker up and Boston of course Matt stabs response for his from his episode about the satanic panic and all of that stuff so that was great and then you know we saw with the middle of the Season that really are
00:10:27at that time took the stage center stage in a lot of ways and his Castle episodes are the Cryptids episode and a few others where Jesus was another one I felt like you really shine so you know those are just some highlights were definitely in the past couple of episodes a little bit especially in the high school episode where it was just me I just got to monologue a little bit of a shorter but that was a new thing for me cuz that's very rare that I was a lot of fun a lot of fun as well because it was the one place in the season where we were kind of in the way we had in the past we were willing to suspend your disbelief about I kind of far out
00:11:27idea. History or whatever that we had a lot of fun playing with the emperor Jesus desus and that whole thing that was a lot of fun we also the episode I did about the Affordable Care Act which was really it was really losing my mom during the season having the experience of insurance care that you even in the hospital that their health insurance we need to speak up more about that and let people know that
00:12:09you know what their options are in try to help people in this regard help more people to be in episode which as you would imagine I felt like that was really special to me and I'm glad I got to share it with you so it's been a lot of fun guys I like how the show was able to come back for a third season many years down the line with a different tone that reflected pretty much everyone on the production changing views as we get older and as I don't know you read so much into these talking she gets so into these topics if you start to read between the lines more and you don't and I think of me and you really can't possibly take you to seriously you were first presented with some of these
00:13:09you've noticed that there's been a definite push back against believing in a lot of what's coming out of the conspiracy is so much of it is shifted so far to the right that what it represents is basically just a thinly-veiled John Birch Society meets Lyndon larouche meet the crew list form of libertarianism a lot of what's generating a lot of what we see of course you know that does brings back to what was the most popular episode 5 minutes it was great and of course the the responses were very down the side so it was it was a lot of fun there
00:14:09hope you've enjoyed it we need to get into the main material of this episode was just talking to my homeboy brother Russell this guy very similar background to me very churchy and kind of broke away from it and saw the kind of thought control LM it said it like me also in two kinds of performance art in this in his case it's the art of the art of prank phone calls and creating character that interact with the world a televangelist and it was back in the nineties in the more recently with podcasts and talk shows that I really enjoyed hope to introduce you to kind of see through the course of this episode so I'm going to start off of chicken over to the interview with brother Russell I want to play a track from one of his albums
00:15:09the woman who the televangelist in the recording that's brother Russell is great his probably give you a little context this was recorded back in the late nineties when there was this huge controversy about are you ready for this gay people going to Disney World and I know it's come a long way in the past 20 years folks are still kind of calls experience with Disney
00:15:53my son's family and I went to Disney World in Orlando 2 years ago and we didn't realize it the day that we went down there I found out later they call it gay day oh no. So you tell me what you're so she probably can't describe
00:16:28When shopping but the worst part of it was besides just you know it was like these people would just openly you know when Embrace but if we gave them a funny look they would say rude things to us when they were kissing you look at them funny the make it mad at you oh yes they were very hateful and the worst part of it was I have a nephew who is the teenager he went off and rode the rides and Things by himself all day long when we met him there at the Pavilion and we all got back together he had a little friend with a McCoy here to older and young boy
00:17:27you know a Sim in it and it had like a pastel colored triangle button on his old was this child we apparently he his daddy works for the Disney Company he is trying to recruit and Stephanie has not been the same since we think cuz they were on the same ride over and over is that It's a Small World ride for your son
00:18:27does it saying but I understand that they write back and forth boy lives in California and Melbourne and I won't say anything nasty you know but he keeps saying my friend a weird expressions like only sex and belching and things well you don't want to know and I don't want to tell you but I don't know what to tell you
00:19:03I'm awake
00:19:15are the evil spirits of seducing homosexuality that were surrounding this other young lad and I want to pray with you right now please do the name of Jesus to break that hold okay Melba the name of Jesus as the mother as the mother of my child child have the authority authority in the word of God according to the word of God over my child over my style and I also and I also have
00:20:15dial the tries to steal my child Lord Jesus erase my son right, homosexual I'm not going I'm not going to allow Jesus and the name of Jesus. Super version take your hands you go in the name of Jesus in Jesus name
00:21:35alright I'm on the line with one of my podcast in Heroes I got to say show me cracks me the hell up and he's got how are you today how are you been delightedly listening to your comedy albums as I've played war games on my computer over the past couple of days and it's been a lot of fun up a couple of times I'm one of your recording so maybe once was or is
00:22:24topics right what is the recreational Christianity term remind coined years ago when we discovered class Travis in the Dallas area
00:22:58and this was free internet and the TV multiple times daily
00:23:08in Dallas he was completely saturated and so we discovered that there is a group of us that had been watching him and recording some of the fun of your bed making compilation videos of the better moment and
00:23:30each other's houses and can having watching parties that were a lot like shirts you know in that we were sitting around watching a guy for my first name Russell so
00:23:45hey everybody would call me brother Russell and you know Randy the guy that kind of started the Robert Shelton fan club in Dallas we call him brother Randall
00:23:57and there's brother Howell brother Kenneth sister Donna so that's kind of the Grand Canyon recreational
00:24:12we were practicing Christianity for all the wrong reasons really you're not necessarily seen as fans for children who are creating the material you're watching the only one of your group or your circle there who took to the crank calling and actually interacting with these sort of well for the most part
00:24:57can a predated my prank call thing by your house you're going to have to figure something like that stuff I was hearing it on the radio and Austin after I move down there and
00:25:16I was kind of shocked because I knew from a very conservative Dallas to Austin which is supposed to be this far out freaking hippie Town college town and all that and I turn on the religious
00:25:40can I take me by surprise so I thought I'd pick up the phone
00:25:48a miniature version of Austin Texas you know the radio station that's really far out Christian talk radio ground to find this stuff really fast like you I love looking back on it and seeing I don't know a certain everyone taking everything way too seriously and bright
00:26:48seriously in the process and I think I feel like a lot of your comedy and reactions to it was supposed to be a pastor's mouth just when you crank calling the threats of Hell Russell how long did it take to record a comedy album how many calls you have to make before
00:27:25oh wow have to take back a little bit
00:27:32I would say like Melba comes alive I think you know the total running time on that is about an hour and I would say maybe that came out of
00:27:45your two two and a half hours worth of material I don't know maybe so for every keeper maybe there are one or two non Keepers and then you have some of the tracks that actually did make it another Comes Alive your people would argue those my teeth fixed either and then everybody at some people that you know would take issue with the open at you put these calls on on there cuz this has this one has nothing to do with religion you're just kind of talking about hockey or just cracks me up also QVC critique in some of these recordings of the intersection between money and religion
00:28:45is that something that particularly bothers you
00:28:50yeah I guess so I mean it and it's not something where I you know I didn't sit down a conscious what he say you know the money in religion or whatever but it's just
00:29:07you know certain things with switch on my bullshyt detector don't make it go off you know and then just depending on what the mood in the room in your like for example some of those calls to QVC there might have been
00:29:25three or four minutes in the room
00:29:28and we be sitting around watching and you'll see something that can tweak this out or whatever and then so they might say hi Russell call Scott call NAPA smell better whatever and it just kind of goes from there
00:29:48your your observation made me think specifically of this call I don't think it was QVC I don't remember but it was some infomercial Lucky's Catholic cartoon videos
00:30:09ordering those but in the process ask a lot of questions that have some little
00:30:15little Kaden Barb's mixed in with the wording of questions and a lot of times it's lost on the person I'm calling but it doesn't really matter cuz it's
00:30:28it's whatever here's the tape is trying to in on the joke with me and
00:30:33and you know it's therapy you know
00:30:39you just need to hear something that drives you up a wall or thing seems messed up or whatever and maybe making the Call of Duty character is just the way they can a blow off steam about it last night and that was one of the few call the way it's obviously they completely inaccurate connection between where the money was going to go and all this yeah
00:31:39I thought that one was really revealing as well and it really brought out how people are really trying to get a buck off of a Sharp says all of her friends are dead first time you listen to the more hilarious they're still very funny but there's something today the brother Russell podcast with
00:32:34yeah I've done a couple of podcast over the years I'm not real good on follow-through sometime so I'll do may be good for 6 months or so and then it'll Fall by the wayside so the most recent one I did was a talk format in the eat show would be about an hour long and a lot of them a friend of mine and Dallas is the musician and artist name for Johnson he also said that he also has a pretty interesting background or anything to me at least it would be kind of like my eyes can we be either about experiences with religion or a week ago did one whole show to
00:33:29really bad jobs we've had and stuff like that I don't think it's up anymore I don't think it's available in somebody's life unicorn dead or turned out to be shared or whatever but yeah that was the most recent one and then before that I did a podcast invented title butter Apple podcast and it was more that I can music mix format where I would take in a religious religious records and creature tape prank calls and match it all together and that was about a year I back my God it's inside sometimes
00:34:20set alarm for maybe you can will let you enjoy your church fat grandma sort of like brother Russell come from the people I want them to listen to that as well but how does a person go from being
00:35:03Reverend to irreverent
00:35:10well in my particular case it was a pretty
00:35:15can I add set of circumstances because people that come from that southern Baptists background or just sort of born into it and of course which is ironic because the big emphasis in the southern baptist churches that you must be born again you know you have to make a conscious decision to accept Christ and you're going to hell with it if you don't that's the only way to God you're going to hell if you choose that path but then the irony is that if you're born and raised in the Southern Baptist Church it's really not like he might have much of a choice in the matter and so you're correct me if I'm wrong but you know most people have somewhere around the age of 8 9 10 11 12 something like that they started you know they get saved I guess the age of accountability and supposedly decide that
00:36:15religion for them I actually didn't go down that route my parents were actually they're very strict morally but they were Christian they were like Progressive United Methodist that then go to church I actually dozed to join a Southern Baptist Church when I was about 20 years old after is going to tell the conversion experience and so I was very much to the Baptist Church that I join I was like some sort of superhero you know because the rest of them were just kind of there cuz they've been born into it but I was like if you want a Believer before and then you join their church and talk about having a born-again experience
00:37:13it's kinda like a badass in that you probably observe to in southern baptist churches where the pastor typically is some guy you know that loses dyed-in-the-wool in a born into the southern baptist thing but the guy that comes in creatures that are reliable is the guy that used to be a big womanizer and used to do drugs and used to not be a Christian and all this and it's kind of like the subtext is hey just what even real real men get no testimony testimony
00:38:13your congregation almost gets more points for having you around I can remember when we were in college
00:38:22a number of a set of work on the show over the years used to hang out in the Pagan student and this was like or whatever it was a million points if I converted my little brother or something it was just what happened you're 20 years old
00:39:01you're young and you find yourself
00:39:08is the College and Career class at the local Baptist Church what is that
00:39:14what does that do to a man in the beginning and it was actually
00:39:19yeah I had sort of a conversion experience I didn't actually join the church until about a year later so the initial initial phases I was sort of the self-styled freeform and a Christian and sometimes those people can actually be pretty pretty tolerable but actually the more I learn the Bible in the more the deeper I got into the Bible
00:39:49probably no less well-adjusted I became you never cuz I was actually the deeper you get into it and I kind of paint this picture of the whole world being the last place and women need to keep silent in the church and non-believers are to be trusted and everything
00:40:16morphed into
00:40:20this person
00:40:26joining this particular church is right down the street from my house which is there a set of circumstances I won't go into ears that would take too long to explain but it was a choice I made something I saw it's a sign from above that that was the church I was supposed to join
00:40:46so yeah so I actually went from being kind of this freeform hippy-dippy kind of Christian to buttoned-up Southern Baptist does the bible backward and forward Christian and that
00:41:11I got into into it so deeply that I have no choice but to start to see that it didn't actually work which is kind of I don't know if that makes any sense or actually true every single word of it and it would seem to me that the more you eat the more you would start to see
00:41:43perhaps something else inerrancy your son classified the Southern Baptist Church I was in was very much a Fundamentalist
00:42:02how to church a pretty strict I could you use tobacco you can be a deacon Ross sneaking cigarettes you know away from church but so
00:42:22what that allowed me to do I say was to really see that these people were actually living pretty Bible authentic
00:42:36lifestyle in it it's one thing that's funny is that that you know you sure like moderate Christians and stuff saying
00:42:49you like screaming about Fred Phelps you know the Phelps family that's not the real Bible That's not the real God you preaching hate all that chapter and verse the back up early every stamps they take I'm nearly everything instead of sitting in my view the southern Baptists and people like that are actually some of the music it's not his people's misinterpretation of it in my tea and I know a lot of other Christians who disagree with me on that but yeah I'll take more than like Sam Harris
00:43:40picture of Texas Viewpoint that like moderate Christians unwittingly provide cover or I guess another way to put it would be like when when you meet a
00:43:52you know I could church-going
00:43:56yo hard-line right-wing voting person
00:44:01it really a lot of times if you actually scratch all of the service and they want they really think and what they really believe it's not that different from what helps with sang All Along you know comparing the way they are now as the years have gone on a lot of ways what you're talking about is becoming more and more apparent you know like if you think about Ted Cruz's father for example of fire and brimstone Ministries or something I can trace its not that but it's
00:45:00recreational Christianity is there a place for Melba and characters of modern environments oh yeah I would think so It's Tricky or two if you're talking about prank calling it is definitely trickier to get on the air call screeners are a little bit more savvy than they used to be in the new technology they have at their disposal to sort of sensor the conversation before the conversation ever starts
00:45:40it is it's pretty impressive and it's not it's more true
00:45:49there's also some luxury I guess for religious radio so that the unfortunate thing is if you're trying to make some calls just started make a call or end up having to choose the easier targets because they're easier to get through to and so that's part of it that's one of many reasons why I really don't do much of that kind of call anymore or if I do I don't bother to record it but shame on me that yeah I do a channel times a year I do just go it'll for sure can pick up the phone and make a few calls and you just don't even bother to have a recording device later my friends hear about it and give me a hard time they would have liked to
00:46:49is it purely for pleasure or are these times in the year when you're about your past experiences you know that's a really good question the best calls really are the ones that are just motivated out of the Simpson's son you know with pleasure with maybe just a little bit of edge work in there but it's going to be the funniest calls in the most spontaneous and and they hold up over time and then there are other calls I've made where I had a particular Viewpoint I was trying to get across or particular criticism or politically specific point I was trying to do in 9 times Outta 10 guns are really not they're not the funniest call and I don't really hold up
00:47:47overtime jokes really I think this thing is work best for me when it was just done just on Purely on a lark and then the whole any anger vitriol or Viewpoint type thing is maybe way back in the background is a secondary, motivation Frank and Alice very blessed myself but well I have to confess I guess I would have called if I didn't have something that's kind of way in on me
00:48:32now what's the problem where all my wife sick and I seem to be disagreeing or what is appropriate and true manifestation and working on Holy Ghost and it's in a service response
00:48:47well couple months ago
00:48:49and the Hennepin Oklahoma in Ardmore Tabernacle Outreach Ministry at Ted McIntyre's Church on know if you've heard of it after you know
00:49:06we had a we had a wonderful time we're getting blessed with fresh revived and I felt like God was taking me on to a new Step turn and in the service I don't think Derek Lee there's a period in toward the end of the service that I don't remember exactly what happened but my wife told me that
00:49:30I was actually I got down on all fours and bark
00:49:35I know that sounds crazy to some but she tells me him and a pastor told me later that that that's what I did and how I know is that does the next day in the following week I was in powered and refreshed and revived, I need a work we're about on break time labor right back to you okay I was going to ask you if it was appropriate you know that I hate on the pastor's leg
00:50:10I get off I could almost since I was getting that I was getting a little love a wooden ball
00:50:33where was he born
00:50:40okay so we're back name of this episode is not recreational recreational ideology is that your work is is not just all sorts of subcultures that have the specific language and jargon and a bit of irony that the Reverend dr. Howard gently
00:51:24oh yeah just over the last 10 years or so I've kind of done characters just for the entertainment of my friends and stuff like I'll have to be friends that I'll just call him one once every couple weeks or so and leave a long voicemail message where I just do some kind of stick as a particular character so it might be a preacher it might be a positive thinking motivational speaker it might be
00:51:58just something along those lines but usually the common theme is bullshit bullshit and and usually they want your money in some form or another or they want your compliance and so the Reverend dr. Howard gently is character did I just sort of started doing a few months ago on a friend's radio show my friend Jerry and he and I are friends since we were teenagers is it needed a show called self out radio on the College radio station in Kentucky
00:52:40and so each week he has a thing for the show what every single song he plays will have that word in the title of the song is pretty amazing you know it's like an encyclopedic knowledge is.
00:52:58I was like alternative music and Indie pop and stuff like that so he always answers incredible library music so I get the same as blue skies you know I'll call him and he'll ask me as the Reverend dr. Howard gently what I have to say about you know blue skies or what one week is topic to stay one week the same was my favorite scenes it just turn all over the place so we do little 5 minutes where the Reverend dr. Howard gently kind of pontificate about the higher self in the numinous and embracing the cosmic Consciousness and so forth so he pretty much gives me free reign to do once or say whatever I want to do is this character so it's been kind of it's been really fun
00:53:56sick we got I've had like a dozen or so. She's on his show at least
00:54:02and each time it gets a little bit more a little weirder each time we find out more about the good doctor like what in recent weeks it's kind of come out that he's a swinger
00:54:18what can you swim at the difference until right at the moment when you lay it on them because you're not worried about being picked up at a Prank Caller character in the story further and I have I have enjoyed that I have enjoyed watching is listening doctor gently's Fortune have not met
00:55:00the only consistent thing from from one appearance to the other on that character is that he wants your money
00:55:09that we should probably Play a clip so here's death rev dr. Howard gently
00:55:15hello again spiritual Partners fellow Travelers comrades on this journey that we share together on spaceship earth I'm the Reverend dr. Howard gently and today's gently word of encouragement is faith
00:55:35faith is a word that we hear frequently in everyday life you've heard the expression you've got to have faith or keep the faith baby or perhaps you've heard someone described as a man or woman of faith
00:55:51now in the western religious and spiritual Traditions the ancient text teach us that faith is the very substance of the things we hoped for and the evidence of the things we cannot see as we reflect on these words we realize that in his or her Infinite Wisdom the numinous for saw that we would need something truly compelling to give us hope in the challenging days weeks eons ahead and faith is that something to use it, colloquialism faith is just what the doctor ordered
00:56:32faith is so powerful that it gives you and me assurance that everything is going to come together for the greater good and that everything's going to be alright just finalized time of experience observation and evidence that time it again seems to mercilessly declare that exactly the opposite is true that is powerful in d y seis is so powerful that is his inspired men and women to make extraordinary sacrifices and perform tremendous Feats of Strength and daring to create Timeless masterpieces of art music sculpture architecture
00:57:16to erect marvelous cathedrals in monuments and to lay waste to the tallest skyscrapers most scientists today believe or at least we'll believe soon did a phenomenon within the human Thought Field that is so Dynamic powerful and effective can only have come to us from a realm beyond our natural understand from the numinous that hire force that prime mover and Shaker that transcends are puny mortal intellect that is very much a part of the air we breathe in the cells within our very bodies
00:57:56and how do I know all this by faith the very fact that many of us have faith today is in my estimation irrefutable proof If this higher Consciousness does indeed exist and that this prime mover gave us Faith as this Priceless gift because she or he knew that in the ages to come we would desperately need it in his or her absence but next comes a very important question how do we get Faith how we keep it and how do we activate it and use it as a tool for happiness Prosperity fulfillment and success I encourage you right now to take out a notepad follow along as I expand the following life-changing principles that will forever alter the course of your life for the better
00:58:56members of Jeffrey Webb
00:59:12you got to the doctor here great character by the way different than Melba though because maybe not a satire around that the background stuff because a lot of people naked with with the old time religion as it were your past and maybe if you had any new age experiences
00:59:53yeah well I'm just I'm kind of fat fascinated I'm just fascinated with religion spirituality spirituality in general and you know I guess if I had gone on to study something you know like a dance degree or something comparative religion vitamin something I'd be interested in ecology when I came out of the fundamental bible-believing thing I actually sort of discovered
01:00:28what is driving which I kind of enjoyed to this day and you know they have their own little flaws and things in your Buddhism is like Christianity and that it has a million different splitter versions and you I've even found these groups or whatever discussion groups on the internet what if you have different subsets if you know just raking each other over the coal but reading you know gone to meditation sessions I have one there's one particular experience I had in Austin that's just one little example of white stuff I observed so there was some one of these kind of non denominational churches in Austin was
01:01:28how to guest speaker that night and it was some sort of Yogi something or other and he was to tell us about kriya yoga and so there's a group of about 80 people would shut up. It's free to attend and you know he was his big deal was that as far as Enlightenment or Transcendent type experience is that surgeon was that you didn't have to work for years and years and years and meditate isolate yourself on a Mountaintop in the Himalayas or whatever
01:02:07if you do it in 5 minutes with his easy technique and I swear to God I'm not in like a magician and it was just so awkward you know the circumstance and then breathe certain way and then he kind of like waves his hands over their abdominal area and it was just the most credulous bunch of people and it just really floored me because I was thinking you have this we could just as easily be right now at Church on the Rock or Jimmy Swaggart's Church in the laying on yeah which I did I've been to Jimmy Swaggart's Church in Baton Rouge when he was at the absolute highest his powers I've been pushed over backwards by
01:03:07Jesse Duplantis the valleys and stuff and I'm starting to get a whiff of the same kind of credulity and in any of those don't like nobody wanted to laugh nobody wanted to question what was going on but they're in the real Trapper it looks when I swear to God I'm not making this up that like at the end of the night this yucky guy and his handlers said if you like to learn more about this and get you know one-on-one in-depth sessions with Yoki whatever his name is in a sealed off Highway marker 95 outside of Manor Texas
01:04:07and all you have to do is bring a piece of fruit a flower and $108 in cash and
01:04:18and it was like I was so blown away I couldn't even laugh I laughed about it later but just the sheer Brass Ball on this guy and nobody in the audience laughed either in this is all this is like this sort of upper-middle-class you know audience of Aging hippies you know I don't want anyone to get the idea that I'm like sitting in Judgment of any one particular
01:04:52Korean three like I have some prejudice against Christians are against Southerners or whatever I mean we're all guilty of believing bullshit at some point in our lives myself included and so I guess I hope
01:05:08that you know people who know me really well know that I'm kind of laughing at myself that's at the same time that I'm laughing it everybody else you know experiences that iPad we're going through different camera cultural groups like I said, whatever it was we laugh at this a little bit and nobody's nobody's into that well you know you've been called the worm and all sorts of other things your story about the hundred and $8 on the side of the road that reminds me I used to work at a bookstore
01:06:08people that would
01:06:12did you say was Peter motyka I probably shouldn't say it but maybe I believe that out later but you know and it would be $80 to sit in on this session we've ever seen this golden colored metallic
01:06:46back brace looking sting
01:06:50he was obsessed with Peter Gabriel in the middle of the chainsaw masters or whatever I have not gotten far from the belief is belief
01:07:32is it going to be a positive thing in your life for a negative or is it you just going to make you look stupid to Outsiders so we're not the point of this is not the Baptist I do firmly disagree with everyone whether it was good or bad being born into it or whatever you know but
01:08:16we were talking rules during the bright Russell about your experiences with Heaven's Gate
01:08:28well I don't experience as much as I'm near Miss but you know what I was in Austin it was a real time to be in Austin cuz it was smack dab in the middle of the 90s so you have
01:08:44there's a lot of stuff going on you have the Branch Davidian thing that happened just write pretty much know a short drive from Austin the University of Texas campuses there and you've got every kind of you know everything from New Age cult to you know campus Crusade for Christ to every kind of compliance group that wants to recruit young nubile high-energy young people for their movement is just working away you know just like earthworms under a rock yet on the University of Texas campus in that surrounding area but anyway one thing my friend Gary that does the radio show where I call in and do my liver doctor how gently character
01:09:39one day we were roommates with Austin for a while and he brought me a flyer that you found on chances that announced last chance to advance to the Evan evolutionary level above human and it was going to be this talk by some group at the local Hilton I think it was local some local hotel in one of the little conference rooms and they were going to be in how big changes were coming to humanity soon and we needed find out about how late did you know grab hold at the last chance to get onto this new evolutionary level that this going to be about the human level anyways we're like we got to check this out so
01:10:31all the appointed day and time you know that was announced on the flyer and I show up it's his hotel and we go to this little Side Ballroom or conference room thing in the lights Rock there's nobody in there and so we check our watches yep that's right they right time I guess maybe you know what's the deal it just says we're about to walk away these for really really creepy you know older people and I say older in I'm nearly as old as now as they were down but you know that's just a while back anyway these real creepy pale can unhealthy-looking, it's sort of say oh where were you wanting to did you get the flyer about the evolutionary level above human
01:11:29they were like yeah it'll be in this same time next Saturday will be here and we love to tell you all about it if you'll need us then and you know we just had the post time so painfully obvious that we were the only two people that shown up for it anyway we were so creeped out by these people we talked it over and we are like you know what if we go back next week it's just going to be us probably just us two in that room with those people and spend some kind of presentation they want to do and we were actually so I'm not easily creeped out okay like I said I've been to ten Austin Church in his I've been to the crieve yoga presentation of
01:12:29flashlight passed me on his way to cast demons out to somebody that we were genuinely creeped by this bunch of people we did not go back anyway like some months later
01:12:42we heard about a Colt group that have committed mass suicide and they call themselves Heaven gate and what I was watching a little this thing about it and there's that flyer about the evolutionary level above human so anyway turns out those people were actually from the Heaven's Gate cult in so that may have been why we were creeped out you know we may have caught a whiff of impending death
01:13:16yeah yeah yeah I don't think we met that main guy you know that guy that called himself or whatever the guy that never blink yeah that's so funny that what they wearing like black sneakers or Travis diminutive and yeah that's saying something comes up I'm not quite sure why they were wearing uniforms
01:14:09but they just to resist some something about him really create this out and I think the big part of what creeps out with her they were for us to come back the following week they wanted us to be hanging on the tail of that, then when it came by to swoop them up
01:14:45set reminder call Tee stuff you just mentioned in the satanic Panic we didn't episode about that earlier in the season did you experience in your Old Christine days
01:15:07the satanic Panic thing was pretty much at a fever pitch around the same time but I was you know in the southern baptist church and actually listening to Bob Larson on radio in all complete seriousness like I was listening to it to get educated about you know the powers of darkness and everything although I do remember he devoted a show to like black metal music and any played Slayer that you know in I remember on the one hand I was like oh my God this isn't this is so evil this music he's playing
01:15:54just like you described it like 15 years later I picked up a copy of Reign in Blood or whatever and I was listening to Bob Larson actually seriously listening to it which you looking back on it now I just I can't even
01:16:29I can't believe it I did just I can't even believe that was me and then I don't think he is the biggest shyster on the face of the Earth music he's a complete scam artist you know he actually it's still operating on his own little small scale and last September some friends and I went to see another little Luck Hotel Ballroom saying I'm just and he still doing his thing it's just with an inch smaller you know Gathering of people and he's one of the highlights of the day was or the night rather
01:17:10once he was selling these crosses that he had blessed these by candlelight ornamental or decorative crosses that he said he prayed over them and touch them with holy oil and bless them and they were clearly like like Pottery Barn or Bed Bath & Beyond type I mean he literally had it look like you'd gone to the little home decor shop and bought some decorative crosses and himself and they were selling for $100 each he actually still does exorcisms and what's amazing is he always has somehow or other he always select demons that don't use profane language so they're the worst I've seen him several different times live in I think bitch is the worst swear word I've ever heard any Satan's minions stutter when Bob is doing battle with them
01:18:10whether they're demonic Powers but I guess Bob's presents you arrange them in so that they can somehow never say fucker shit
01:18:23maybe I can get it from that area that will read or Orwell
01:18:50yeah well I'd forgotten all about that guy yes there's a writer named Frank Peretti and I distinctly remember that when I was in probably the probably the most mentally unhealthy phase of of my Bible addiction I read his book this present Darkness I think it was called and such a book where there's on on the surface there's like a Christian version of that VIN vendors movie Wings of Desire obscure reference but I mean basically in the store you get to hear and see what the demons and the angels are doing behind the scenes during this you know till like Footloose style City Council
01:19:44your dispute or something I can't remember what the bullshit premise was but you know in hindsight is a little more serious now I really do think
01:19:59that that book marked fucked up turning point in the American psyche in a way to cause that was that book sort of introduced into Christian Pop Culture this idea that let's say your gay activist down the street or your Unitarian Universalist after that thinks everybody's going to heaven these aren't just mirror white human beings like you and me they're actually ends well by demons in her being influenced by demonic Spirit there's no way to overstate the destructiveness that belief system and I'm really I really do think
01:20:54tell me how to get to heavy-handed here but it really does scare the shit out of me because I've been in that thought process I've been one of those people that has looked at other human beings and thought I saw demons you know dancing behind their eyes and stuff and once you start thinking that way about other people there is nothing that you won't do to them you know what I'm saying so I left I think first select individuals I don't want to paint everybody with the same brush but yeah I think they're really is I mean there that I know for sure
01:21:54that there are people that are walking around you know people I know and my professional life and stuff like that that
01:22:02yo they honestly see that there are like demonic minions pulling the puppet strings on you know your your liberal politicians or whatever so and I'm not into it I'm not really into politics and I I know just enough about it to talk myself into a deep hole but I just know it's really dangerous when you start to think about other human beings as you know being demonic spirits headed for a burning Lake of Fire yeah world is if you're something distinct from the world released
01:22:58we got left behind books
01:23:16founder of the spiritual warfare section of the family Christian bookstore or whatever yeah I really do I really do think any of that could be somebody listening that is probably going on you know there's other authors that were done the same thing before if that's the case that I am not aware of them I mean I distinctly remember that after for me personally after I read that Frank Peretti novel and can really stoked it in and internalize the world view in that that is when you know I really went into a real spiral as far as not yelping kind of maladjusted and started seeing the world in you know veil of Darkness
01:24:08I really can't and what's funny is you know later I walked away from the church and walked away from fundamentalism and I wasn't aware that mean while Frank Peretti have going on to like about a bazillion other books along that same theme and you have spawned a whole genre of Christian fiction and then the next thing you know you're watching like some dumb reality show like that show their is that show this is a tangent to forgive me but there's a show called Wife Swap or something like that
01:24:48and we actually did an episode this lady exchanges the sentimentalist lady goes to live at the house of this light rock and roll heavy metal family and she starts going berserk because she thinks she seems like demons everywhere that lady couldn't have existed before the the other Frank Peretti this whole new the spiritual warfare pop culture Christian Pop Culture mentality that has
01:25:31you know were you screaming at demons you know and lights mirror I seen videos on YouTube you can go to YouTube and see videos of Just Everyday People demonstrating how to anoint your whole house with oil said that demons can't get into it and a friend of mine went to a Bob Larson like a intensive Bob Larson coaching session with a small group and Bob Larson is actually telling them how to anoint anoint the electrical sockets in your house or the demon couldn't get it in Tremont Electric
01:26:11the light sockets your house and if yes where else you
01:26:28New Orleans or San Francisco you talked about particularly deep dark place with the Peretti and if that particular point
01:26:50myself becoming more and more zealous and finally what kind of woke me up was that it was it was hurting my friendship it was hurting it was hurting my relationship for the people that I love the most it was causing me to be way too pushy sexual change
01:27:16well it is a little bow in my case yes I had really good friends that from way back
01:27:29I think sort of started to distance themselves because they really couldn't talk to me without me like finding kind of awkward goofy ways to try to work at conversion message or salvation message into my conversation and which is never goes ever
01:27:51well well and then the other thing that happened was in my case it was really experientially based in that I was in this thing in a whole hog and very very much a literal taking everything literally and being very sentimental about it and so what happened with me is when I didn't I started to notice that the things that were actually happening when we prayed when we ask God for something or whatever then it's like it it said it wasn't working the way the biblical program this thing I'm supposed to work and most people find ways to rationalize that away the creatures are very eager to help you do that and I mean that's one of their main functions
01:28:51the week if the if the thing was just self-evident actually just didn't work right you don't require somebody to get up once a week and reiterate the fact that when you drop release something from your hand it's going to fall to the ground you know so anyway yeah so what I did I took it a step further and it's something I guess a lot of people don't dare to do and that's actually I gave myself permission to start reading books other than the Bible
01:29:29which I haven't done in several years one of the first touch I read was called the mind of the Bible Believer from published by Prometheus but yeah this was pre-internet so
01:29:52anyway I won't belabor the details anymore than that I'll just say that fortunately there was there were a couple of Publishers that were caring to put out some books that I managed to somehow get my hands on you going to Texas and it started to me on the spot process of giving myself permission to question
01:30:21what I had in person than to believe and then
01:30:26from there I think it's just if it's an organic process if you don't if you don't go back to church every week for reinforcement the programming starts to shake and then you know so it wasn't a very gradual process I didn't just wake up one day
01:30:51process and another healthy part of the process was when I I kind of got mentally healthy enough to be able to have conversations with people with non-believers stand taking literally my Christian friends in the church quickly evaporated because probably cuz they didn't want to face those kind of questions I was right when you start to redesign the processes information can go both ways and interpretation
01:31:51receiving something right yeah kikkerland Baptist Churches there's another hour or so where you need before church in the Sunday school class in my view today is part of its purpose is to try to create the illusion of free and open discussion tonight so we will we express our opinion
01:32:38and you know I started to get to a point where I have some kind of important question in Sunday school class cuz I was just you know I pretty much wear my heart on my sleeve and I was thinking out loud but I have two friends started not
01:33:05you have not hang out with you as much anymore and then you know one day I got a phone call from one of my old non-religious friends that I had alienated a year or two ago and they can I reached out to me that's how to test the waters and see if they can have a abnormal same conversation with an old friend Russell again and it went really well and I kind of you know apologize to them as I tried to ram my beliefs down their throat a couple years back and then before you know it it's like nothing ever happened you pick the Friendship back up again and you know and and your those friendships are bigger than the labels you put on each other and are you know the ideologies that you and Bryce and that's what that combined you know again was like reading certain
01:34:03looks you know which books are what's they're just people spots that they share with you right so you're just plugging into the thoughts of other people walked away
01:34:17I'm trying to minimalism and so those work for me those were the two pieces of the puzzle that help gradually
01:34:26fetch me out about a little bit it was a slow and painful process and there for a while I continue to use the Christian label which always turned out to be in this stay because somehow or other than if I shared the fact that I would if I use that label I somehow ended up always getting making friendships with people that would suck me out maybe that was just a coincidence but all I'll leave that for the individual to judge but it seems like when I got completely away
01:35:13I'm not label and from even making that I keep our demise identity and stuff all the sudden I could just have normal relationships with people and it wasn't shot with Terrell United far as being afraid to show my real face without alienating people your story your testimony is that
01:35:44it could be anything you know what I mean to break down our relationship and break down the bar Fellowship as it were between between us and our friends are family we see it in a lot of different ways and I think there's a real positive take away
01:36:16from I'm just hearing someone talk about going to that process and how and how it can be a healing that comes after it embarrassed meant I think we're going to be able to let you know as soon as we go through these phases
01:36:48you know I think people are going to go in and out of these weird phases of their life a lot more quickly because
01:36:59when you check when you can if you go off the deep end with any particular ISM or ideology or whatever and if you do it publicly on Facebook and have this whole group of witnesses to your Madness I think it it may actually accelerate the process of your people calling you on your bullshit and coming back out of it I hope that's the change you know what what I hope doesn't happen is that people if the internet injecting like a tool with people just get more try crystallized into their little
01:37:39subset cultural Sunset and fine like the 10 other people that believe exactly the way they need to see a lot of the ladder there at least in my experience where the internet become a source of information and then later on you realize you really just stepped into an echo chamber chamber whatever you want to call it
01:38:15test something publicly
01:38:20especially in front of all your friends if you're on Facebook or whatever and it's not even believe in your heart and confess with your mouth the next time circumstances I thought to the church the church the church seems to find a way to kind of when you're down, whatever it is
01:39:20oh yeah yeah I absolutely understand their particular religious groups that are called that have I realize that so chilly that they specifically Target people when they are the left and the example uses the Jehovah's Witness group I worked in the desk chair industry for a while which we could be a whole other shift but anyway I know specifically that you have people at your house as Witnesses
01:39:56make every effort to get jobs in the death care industry to be close to the bereaved and grieving family as an opportunity to share their
01:40:07say why aren't you put it more cynically to recruit people also know that at least in Texas is will actually kind of like troll the obituary pages and send personal letters to the surviving family members like are you know I've never met you but I just wanted to send you this letter to tell you that you know share your
01:40:36want to set the ties near hour of grief and you know you can live forever
01:40:44in Paradise on Earth by the way a lot of like
01:40:58and there's some of the nicest people I've ever met so I'm not I don't want to demonize these people cuz I've known and I've been friends with him I've worked with them they're good a lot of their very good people but they also are like vultures circling over Roadkill
01:41:15totally Tennyson
01:41:21I think that's great I'm glad that you were able to come on for the season finale are the occult conspiracy theories in religion and spirituality section of the iTunes Store to make a little fun of some of the features that are competing with the sharks is it is great so I will arrive Russell albums
01:42:12well I'm most of my prank call work
01:42:18if you want to call it work is on a website the band camp website which is kind of a website where the garage bands and stuff can you upload in archive their music for free on my case it's Melba. Bandcamp.com and you can stream any of the tracks I got in Tire CDs uploaded some of them going way back to the bill clinton-era in she can stream and listen for free or if you actually you know what a copy of the MP3 to sit on your hard drive or your iPod off shut the price is really really low where you can download but still nobody actually does and then the world
01:43:16I would also like to give a little shout-out to self-help radio it's been around for a long time no you can't you can't hone in on specific dr. Howard gently spots on there but it's fun show to listen to him and if you listen You'll find them sprinkled in there here and there it's really easy to find just Google self-help radio and then years ago I cook created a site called Losing My Religion. Com with Emory Long down in Austin & Emery still needs change the site and has kind of healthy online debates with Christians
01:43:59he labeled himself an atheist and so that still up there Losing My Religion. Com I don't have much to do with it these days but yeah I'm proud of the fact that way back in 1999 he and I cook founded that side so we kind of predated be the new atheist and post-dated the old atheist so what goes around comes around
01:44:32awesome awesome thank you for coming on the show and future if we in the distant future if we do season 4 season 5 of Russell be my pleasure thank you
01:45:03okay we're back man I sure love brother Russell that was a great interviews step some memories from the past anyway this is this long episode for the end of the season I really hope you guys enjoy joining me on this journey joining us on this journey cuz it's been a number of the creating this and I really hope you enjoyed it so while we were at the bridge I looked it up and in fact episode of Star Trek I was talking about was the Next Generation episode season 2 finale Shades of Grey end
01:45:54it was correct even if it is the worst episode of the series ever so I hope my 10 minutes worth of episode Recaps back at the beginning of the episode didn't qualify this for that particular
01:46:13award for that particular honor dishonor really appreciate it you can always check us out there radio. Net I can't tell you when they will be new episodes or new season of this show but I will say that I'm not calling this the series finale so it may be a couple of years though I tend to tell people to look at it is like this imagine like the Black Sabbath or kiss ears constantly said they're retiring and they're not but for the time being I'm going to be working on the shadow of ideas which I introduced back at the beginning of the episode I hope you guys will check it out, and if you have supported are shown any way over the past these and I hope you will continue some support
01:47:13series because I'm going to be working hard on it and I hope you guys enjoy it anyway it's a pleasure as I've said and I look forward to hearing from you guys soon and to Sherry Moore's my ideas with you in the future my name is Raymond Wiley you've been listening to out there
01:47:35you have been listening to out there radio
01:47:41what you access premium episodes please visit us online hacked out there radio. Net

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