Today, in Part 2 of Oh Boy's 50th Episode, the conversation between award-winning playwright/performer Sarah Jones and host Jay Buim continues. The two discuss the actual work that goes into a career like that of Sarah Jones: how to balance it, challenging the status quo, her separate work with the human rights movement and the research process that goes into her one-woman show.
It's a fascinating episode. Headphones in, enjoy!
Want more Sarah? sarahjonesonline.com/
Want more Jay? @beardwizard
Edited by Jay Buim
Produced by Kate Barnett
United States
explicit content


00:00:09hi hello and welcome to oh boy the podcast presented by man repeller I'm your host Jay Voom and today's episode is part two of my conversation with Sarah Jones if you want to keep up with Sarah for info about upcoming performances and her new podcast you can head to Sarah Jones online.com thats Sarah with an H okay let's get into it
00:00:39I interviewed this girl yesterday for the podcast brains Ruby karp she's 16 years old is reading a book and you know any kid now liked you feel this pressure with all these like social media things to constantly be seeking out attention whether you want it or not and she was like yes completely involuntary and she's 16 so I'm like there's a part of me that's like if Snapchat is cuz I'm that's why I don't listen to design not far as I've heard it and I will admit I have an account I am a writer and a performer and my job is to do my podcast and do my shows and have conversations like this with you and you know make films
00:01:38well I can make work that I like and to the extent to which these platforms help me engage with people who will otherwise not find me okay I'll do what I have to do is stay human over here and it's starting to feel like a I like I have been in conversation with people where they're talking a little too low and I can't really hear them and I pick up my phone involuntarily and start pressing the volume button to try to get it louder that's a bad I'm a logical thinking person I think the thing is that
00:02:17with with like that kind of stuff like okay so like you want to be able to give all of yourself to your work that takes up all your time you don't have time on top of that too then be giving all of yourself to people engaging with your work you know and it's just like where do you put your focus where you know cuz I definitely know people maybe you know people to who spend all their time just doing that hundreds the interfacing and it'll get you a million followers by the way I do not have a million School you followers I'm on Instagram I'm on Twitter I occasionally go on Facebook there's a whole divorce story about that they're like I'm friends with the super awkward but the hard part is like you said this is about being a creative person like our work is about you know the uniqueness of what what you see who you are where you've been and sharing that with people from a place of humility not owe you
00:03:17you have you know an authentic Viewpoint that is different from a fucking brand and I'm sick people like but they're done with your brand and I did not sign off on this Sarah Jones bring a pigeon holes you into a thing to that puts up like walls around what you can do for you to make those walls as porous cuz I can make them you know like they're working at engage with a now in some ways it couldn't be more analog my favorite way to work is one on one sitting here and you know I want to introduce you to Pauline Lang and she is very important person to me this woman Sarah Jones she want to talk to a Chinese American people about what means to be Chinese in America I want to tell people meet me first don't make decisions
00:04:17all that you know of China people like this or like that take some time to be with that person look that ice you cannot know who is that person without all spend some time with them ask them question but I think the whole world think they know every person every people because they have small phone and they can't Google are you kind of find me on Google I told her Joe's if you want to interview me we have to sit we have to have some tea together so I'm at my favorite way to work is to be human in a space with other human I recognize that there are only So Many Bodies I can smash into a theater at a time so I'm doing other stuff on digital platforms and look TV things in film things that's all fantastic and those mediums those media do have benefits that other forms don't have
00:05:17I did a TED talk and then I stayed over a million people were like I love your characters over to Singapore were like I loved you or the one that you did about and that's awesome yes and without the first part of my work being stoked and nurtured and prioritized I'm screwed so it's an awkward Balancing Act and right now like I probably haven't posted anything on Instagram in a couple of days there was a time when I was like you know right now so I guess it's just kind of making peace with how imperfect it all feels and if I if I'm coming home to my work often enough that's my job like my work is my home base like the actual work not branding the work not promoting the work but doing the work and then trusting that you know if it's if you're doing something brilliant people will find you will find you
00:06:17and by the way I reached out my hand across the table gesture to you that you were being really old I'm doing something brilliant just letting all this fighting is truth just give me a sec people do like people do you know right emails and do you like connect on Instagram and like it's nice to know that people are listening and like engaging with what you're doing you know cuz it started with like a very simple and true and what was your mission like what did you know I wanted you wanted to just have a podcast where I just had conversations with women at the way that I you know that cuz I it's all star from an episode of WTF and I listen to Marc Maron just it was just it was an episode was alive episode he only eat interviewed women comedians
00:07:17so you're like you're like why Burn Notice are you talking to them in this way then why can't you for lack of a better term I can you take your dick out of this conversation why does it have to become a sexual thing and not even in a big way like you could stay there and it's like water and you know then I started let you know once that happened I started going back and listening to other podcast I listen to like when like men would talk to women I'm just like my best friends growing up is like half always been like half women in half guys like you know like there's never time usual you know that takes a little butt and I was like okay I want to do podcasters a million podcasts out there what can I do that's different I was like I just want to have a conversation between a man and woman we were just like talk shop in this I talk about amazing and inspiring people how they do things and why they do things is just as simple as that and you know like I've been able to have like these fucking Illuminating and educating and I'm in and and like amazing conversations you know so that was just like I was just like the simple Genesis for starting this you know
00:08:17everything great starts that way right like a show like there's no I wasn't hearing it I'm not saying there weren't people doing it they're very well but it wasn't on my radar and I like I was like alright well that's what I want to do you know it's it's come from a very true plays a very like you know I think like genuine desire to just like the way that we're talking or talking like friends talk right like we're having a conversation as people I'm not commenting on like the dress that you're wearing on like the Late Night show is like if you were a guy would be like bro and down about something hundred percent you know but I don't want to have any part of that game and I think that's a it's a choice that requires
00:08:58when you have to be willing to bump you know there's friction there right cuz the dominant culture oh my God especially now but I guess all of this to say like the idea of treating women men transferred as human first is revolutionary and it shouldn't be but it is what I do is I look at like oh well what's the authentic you know body language of this woman and you know I have an ignition power to who that is sort of thing that I've noticed and I don't think so I need me and I'm sure I have to save America as well you know concave presents between a physical presence and that says oh don't mind me to take care of don't mind me and my privilege especially I'm a woman on this sort of
00:09:58forgive me for taking up space and type of thing I like to study all about it how are identities actually you don't all politicized from the time with tiny does he was saying you know the pink kind of girls play with dolls and boys you know we'll do this with cause all that's what you think you know him you win from the earliest from your own self concept as a child till the time you're fully formed adult and don't even realize that this isn't Devine superimposed on you for so long I think you quite Brave actually something simple that I did I just wanted to do I do this because like I really enjoy it thoroughly enjoy like people sharing their stories with me you know cuz again like that's kind of like the reason I love filmmaking it's just like you're sharing people stories in like you're just getting exposed to all these different
00:10:58ideas and like we all have so much to connect with and that's to me that's the way I've chosen to connect with people that's a profound statement to because I've heard it said that you know and this is really fresh on my mind I'm doing a lot of fun spending my holidays like staycation egg and doing a lot of volunteer work service that actually feeds me just of course I probably more than it helps the other people but addiction is a big topic for me and I've heard it said that the opposite of addiction is connection that when people are seeking you know too kind of when there's an endless need for something and you can't stop doing it even if it's not good for you what you're really seeking is authentic connection with other human beings at first and foremost probably with yourself and I mentioned self alienation earlier because I really see it all my character for trails in all of my research in my own life that sense of I'm not okay
00:11:58is at the root of so much whether it's toxic masculinity or you know internalized racism or you know racism projected out onto others you know other rising and fear-mongering and everything it drives Fox News you have anything that helps foment the kind of mess that were in now politically starts with I'm not okay there's something wrong with you even and I was married to a white guy who still white straight Christian Bale a good-looking tall everything should have been fine and I think he I think I can speak knowing him that he also still felt the sense of like something about him was still not okay and I would imagine that if I got enough time to sit down an interview every human being on Earth they would be precious few who were given the message from the time they were little everything about you is all right right exactly as you are your feelings are normal you know you're safe you're loved you or cared for and we see you now what this is offal
00:12:58I also do struggle with addiction issues too so it's a constant Battle of back-and-forth you know we can call it was one of my addictions is workaholism and it looks virtuous and everybody's like what I want to talk about sell-by date I'm so glad I got to see it I cuz this is the funny thing to a lot of like a lot of first off it was so beautiful because not only was like the performance amazing but the sound design in the stages I like it all just like came together to just like it was like it was like I was like I'm beautiful I'm just like whole piece you know what I mean yeah pretty cool right my directors amazing Carolyn cancer another badass when it's stuck at the one we were at and I was like this woman's in front of us with her like little daughter is so cool
00:13:58like like and then to find out
00:14:03amazing cuz I feel like for people who don't know who don't go to like to see performances a theater like I feel like a lot of people think it's easy to write off one woman one person show there's very like sort of cliche things that can go into it you know there's that Fred Armisen skit on Saturday Night Live did you ever see that it's like it's like the show itself is transformative and to just like be transported like with just like the power is really just your power on the stage you know it was like I've never experienced anything like that and one of my favorite things I love about it was like not only were things perspectives from like different cultures but also different ages and that's something that I've been really really interested in lately especially because I live in fucking Williamsburg and the majority of like the people my neighborhood it's a carnival for like grown children you know
00:15:03born in Alaska and like I'm like hanging out with all these different people different ages and that's like something I I don't like that's like one thing that really bums me out about being here where I am like I think that's so important you know Laurie Simmons has this movie that's coming out there that I want to go for a screening of and it's about an older artist just like navigating your life and it's just like it's so I feel so special to be you know around that kind of wisdom you know what I mean but like I like the I like the feeling of being around people of all different ages and in addition to backgrounds but not something that I took away from it that I really loved a lot so I'm sorry I'm not letting you talk about this like when you're standing at the bottom of that mountain and you like see the top and you're like how the fuck am I going to get up there like what what is going through your mind like what's your approach
00:16:06it's like no you got to carry everything dude you gotta take take all of you with you up the mountain and I think where I began Was Fear who's going to want to see a play about this topic what am I thinking it's not commercial like made you go down that road the first place where we like I have to tell the story had a one-woman show on Broadway that like never happened I eat oh it was all we just felt so flukey and strange the whole way I'm not a trained actor I didn't know I wanted to do this I started out doing the spoken word thing and my character sort of emerged out of this spoken word poetry hip-hop moment that I was in that I love the 90s and then you know like I said really I guess it was 1999 I did a one-woman show that had like characters in it and was tackling themes that for me were relevant
00:17:06and necessary and Urgent and they weren't you know when I saw people of color on television or even on SNL it was always this kind of you know reductive two-dimensional representation that was meant to spice up the real central figure of the white people usually the white guy pop in and do the Tim Meadows as like the ladies man you know even when it was some kind of silly thing whoever I don't know Dana Carvey or somebody there was just the sense of like they're the white guy's perspective was we was home base and then everything else was kind of marginal or hyphenated from there the women you know that definitely the people of color and so I mean SNL of today is almost unrecognizable compared to back down to complete the maze answer me by the time I
00:18:06wrote and performed my first one woman show that was commercial I had all this crazy stuff happened Meryl Streep came into my life through like my human rights work with this wonderful organization called equality now what's it like when the heavyweight like that comes in as like hey I like what you're doing I want to be I want to be on the board when we got the phone we got a phone call and I was like oh someone is pranking me go Meryl Streep was that oh my God that's hilarious and then I realized that you know she is also interested in what's happening with you know people who are interested in character like that's what she does she's really an artist she's also an activist at heart and she's incredibly smart she writes you be home she's a visual artist you can sing she's amazing and I just kind of what I was like okay I'm just going to keep pinching myself and hope like I don't actually pinch all the way through the phone right by this but that does not go back to what we were talking about in the beginning almost have like somebody
00:19:06like she was in a position where she could be like I like this I'm going to put this on the Front Street you know I helped amplify your voice and it changed my life and my show eventually went to Broadway and I want to Tony it was incredible and then here's the thing about addiction right I think I got addicted to say you don't like Fame chasing energy and like recognition and I'll admit when you're doing 8 shows a week and six hundred people jump up and clap for you and you're all by yourself it's this strange feeling that I've heard called you know feeling like a piece of shit at the center of the universe and it was a strange experience and I wasn't prepared for it and I promptly I was I think that I could have been easier to deal with for my producers like it was a rough bumpy ride I did the best I could but HR the week for 8 months on stop Novi
00:20:06a lot and I think the pressure was too much anyway all of this to say I needed a break and I didn't know that and I was like what's that lets go to the Chateau Marmont and hang out without the famous people in like try to get rich and like you know fly around in people's privately let's do that so it took me some time to figure out that my work has to come before any kind of external validation like the work itself is the most important thing it's when my agent was saying write a musical you got one in you it's going to be awesome we're going to make a ton of money my soul was like remember when we met those girls in prison because you were teaching poetry workshops and you remember thinking this is insane how does the world not know that these young girls are on Rikers Island for soliciting and prostitution when they're literally too young to consent to sex what the fuck like you can't both
00:21:06beo of criminal here are the terms in the incredible you know disparagement of women and sexuality it's so Victorian it's so puritanical and sick the way we pathologize women's sex lives in part through criminalizing you know what some people call sex work and what I would also call Commercial sexual exploitation and especially for these girls anyway the point being I had always had in the back of my mind these stories need to be told they need to be brought from margin to Center and these these quote-unquote characters need to be rendered in a way so that white guys who come into the theater and feel no connection to that identity as such they need to still feel their core Humanity connected with this young girls course right now so in being in that Target I do have to say you know like there were certain characters in the show that you know what I'd like to think that I'm you know
00:22:06open person in that like you know trying to be the best I can be but there were definitely certain characters where I was like oh wow I see how my behavior could be problematic to this you know your money back for your ticket no but it's probably a good thing I have to be like brought to the pond to have a drink you don't want the water splashed in your face
00:22:43we're not trying to force feed you anything but I mean just like thinking about like pornography industry as a whole and like what the effect of that is because there is there is like on one side there's this push for people be like well like they're taking agency over their bodies they can do what they want but there is like the other side of like much to what we were talking about like within the Native American character where that energy is still under there totally you know tell her that was something that I had thought about you know hundred percent and you know so if what I'm saying is that you're working thank you thank you I miss you
00:23:27you know and that's like that's the you know like man when theater is on there is nothing better it was a very nice thing to do you know I remember when I was in high school my mom took me to go see a man like Jeffrey Wright and Mos Def to Top Dog Underdog at the public my God so good and like that and like that with me like my entire life you know like so it's like that's that's the thing that I love about you know experiencing that kind of work and I just think it just needs to be out there more because there's more people that like those kinds of messages and like self-reflections would be very beneficial to and that's where the power comes from
00:24:13it's so sad but one of the myths or Minnesota the bill of goods we get sold as a culture is now that hurts don't touch it and sometimes it's like no that thing that hurts to look at a little bit is the key to your freedom and if you're willing to walk through a little bit of discomfort of being like oh shit my sweater from Forever 21 is being made by slave labor that's not cool am I willing to not look hot tonight at this party and you know go buy something someplace else that I know was sustainable like having that moment of discomfort and having to grow into some character that's that's you know it's what you need for your Sith almost an act of of self-preservation to learn how to withstand a little bit of discomfort so that you can expand into who you really are people think Pat themselves on the back too often especially social media right like say like like you know support support those Standing Rock
00:25:13William Carey I know and at the same time I don't want to discourage people from
00:25:22yeah yeah yeah but you're like the feeling you had after you know that your first show you know what what is the emotional toll that like Holly had me like that does to you over time what is that seeing you seeing Mos Def and Jeffrey Wright and I remember seeing Lily Tomlin like and I think she was on TV like you know I'm a generation let my mom would watch her and everything but she if I got to talk to her she's on my podcast on my character's got to talk to her character's it was my brain exploded I had to like pick it up off the floor but I mention this because she had this ability to inhabit the character the characters and the you know the people from her real life and it was
00:26:22for her and I've talked about that a little bit was with Tracy almond as well and I think Mom will probably say something similar probably John Leguizamo you know we get to become more fully human because these people lend us their lives and that's a gift like every time I learn who someone is to the point where I feel remember trying to learn how to say I was not in their sell-by date my name is happy birthday but I hope that I will be in another future bed because of their religion issues and political issues and the women empowerment and freedom in the Middle East of course it's a very important issue that people don't realize that we are feminist women there as well just because I normally I am covered I wear the hijab does not mean that I am not empowered women
00:27:21salvage yards that you have to take my story that I shared it with the respect that she would want for her own story simple very simple doesn't have to be perfect but it must be that you can close your eyes and feel that heartbeat my heartbeat and she promised me that she would try to do that she would get that upset I started to me that is that like is that why I like
00:27:57that's the difference when like Ashton Kutcher plays a character named Raj and like what you're doing that's the difference I hope so I mean I would like to believe you know how many people like I don't like Chris there are in the kitchen... That was like the some gatekeeper didn't say well well well well I don't know I think about it all the time depending on where I go with my career I just hope there is I just don't ever want anyone to yes me I trust that I'm so interested in finding out what's going on along the way that I doubt I'll end up in that position but wow to be that I just think there's a certain remove and you there is willful ignorance ignorance but I seen people who truly don't understand that what they're doing is offencive I truly don't get it it's an assault what I would call it is a kind of pre-literacy I think there is there sort of pre
00:28:57literate in a certain spiritual energetic kind of way they don't yet know how to read you know human interaction and understanding and enough of a way to be respectful of another person the way they would want it themselves also they may not even know they want it themselves or needed themselves I've had white guys tell me on many different occasions but I'm nothing like I'm Irish German blah blah there's no Christians in my family issues and what do you mean
00:29:36nothing like weirdo how how could you get into think that nothing is a kind of safe baseline or is it kind of you know again by the clear transparent Twisted thing because it says I'm normal I've also heard I'm normal but what it really means is I haven't done any investigation I haven't done the Tim Wise homework I don't know if you know about him but he's this really interesting guy who talks about white privilege he's been talking about it for ages I remember his books in the 90s to Stone Tim Wise and he talks about whiteness as a political category as a you know something that you can track just like I can track why African-American exist as a concept you can track what does witness mean you know Lorraine will be the first one to tell you she was Mark Jewish in Slavic when she got here she was not white and she did not enjoy White Privilege until you know certain rules and things changed and then suddenly the dirty Irish became
00:30:36play music economic thing you know just turned to Green. I think I think lots of politics in there but it's a very interesting thing to watch how these categories you know that dip that supposedly Define us a lot they're all constructs anyway cuz I'm adopted so I didn't really know my background I did I mean I was raised by two Jews and I definitely remember being like at Thanksgiving dinners and just like stepping back and be like these Jews are hilarious they be like they've been arguing about mustard for like 30 minutes you know what it's like I understand that culture I didn't I wouldn't say you're never feel like I have a bar mitzvah and everything but I was more of a social thing I didn't know I did it I never really felt like oh this is me right you know what I meant my birth parents when I was 18 and there's no but my birth father he's like a hundred percent Irish you know like Philly like you know his brothers are all cops in Philly and stuff like and my birth mom she's also adopted
00:31:36so we don't yeah yeah yeah so we don't really know like she's done the the spit test DNA found out that like we're Greek someone or just cool that explain all the hair on my body you know I love it but yeah so it's like I kind of grew up just I never felt a kinship to like one zone kind of background I would love to him but you don't have anything the culture I've embraced the most is like Italian culture like it just like speaks to me like just like the like the love the warm and other cultures don't have that. Yeah like I mean like that's that's my one pasta roller right there that's you know like I just make pasta to relax so I can get Italian food makes sense to me um maybe maybe a little bit terranean
00:32:27well I explained that you say that cuz in Italy I always feel and I'm not you know trying to paint the entire country with a broad brush but there is there's something about the sense of welcome yes I was actually just talking with another amazing artist who you'd probably love and she's a powerful woman who would be awesome on the show held at Davis because she was in Einstein on the beach the don't tell yeah and she's also noted me know brilliant singer and musician in her own right anyway she has a podcast on Amazon all the time my radio station dial never changes Trump and you know they were always the possibility that you are very strong America it's going to be
00:33:27but she was kind of seeing through their eyes there's this human is it in for people who had Berlusconi I don't get me wrong turns over. Filmed on his network but you know whether is Italy or some other I feel very connected Native American people I don't know what that is I haven't done the spit test thing yet and I you know lots of black people have native ancestry Etc but I kind of feel like our ancestry and what were drawn to and you know like I'm sure you feel some connection to you when you had your bar mitzvah you know you have your Irish Connection in this Italian I am sort of pulling threads from everywhere all the time and different things speak to me on different days I mean I'll have moments when I feel very disconnected from my African American and Caribbean roots and more connected to you know my extended family who are Jewish or more connected to friends I grew up with your Indian
00:34:27you know more connected to youth culture than I feel connected to my own you know my own age appropriate you know culture so like I kind of don't understand it and I've stopped trying to figure it out I just fine with something authentic and beautiful it gives me chills and him and I try to hang around it and get closer to it and let it wash over me yeah I like to see that out I don't know what did you see moonlight so like I ate that would be like gutted me open like I like that as soon as I seen when he liked makes the meal for him I didn't stop crying for like 2 hours I couldn't I couldn't believe it I just like it just like it just like it was just something that was like so small but so true and the way that they kind of allowed you to infer all these things like with the subtext of the stories and that was a play first to you know it's all comes back to the theater you know like I just cried like a baby for like two and a half hour
00:35:27I was like you know like covering my face I'm walking down loser cuz there's like people laughing and stuff in the theater I'm like dude that film and there are moments in you know I've had a happy with music I've had it happen with you know a piece of visual art wear something bigger than me and everyone around that piece of art and even the person who created it or if you will the person who allowed it to be created through them something so huge and you know kind of ineffable made that thing and I'm plugged into it and I don't understand it I don't even have to think about it think about it and it's a sock it and I'm getting power out of it and it's you know giving to me I mean I've had that happen and my my hope my prayer my you know my Mantra help me make something useful
00:36:27that's usefulness at it it's you know it's a recharge the battery recharger there in a world that can sap you of your Chi just beat up between the time you leave your door and get to your train or bus or School walls up in some people have to put more walls up in other people just to make it from their door to the train tell me and like when you can have something that can just cut through all that and make you just feel vulnerable in a Safeway I mean is nothing better than that it's you know brene Brown who I know Rose to you know people's awareness through a TED talk about vulnerability this concept that she has a living wholeheartedly is a big thing that I love cuz the ideas that you know we shut. You're saying we put up walls we kind of up armor our hearts so that they are not so we don't have to experience pain is that the same thing like you haven't take a pill like make it go away instead of I'm going to walk through the heart of this because the truth is when I take the pill or make it go away it's a temporary fix and I'm going to suffer again
00:37:27and in a robot there's a revolving door of suffering that I go into all the time so I don't have to go through the one-time discomfort of like oh let me just face this very thing that I don't want to look at right so in a certain way brene Brown's talking about and I think you were talking about and I'm talking about living in a way that your entire heart is available and that means is vulnerable scary but his illusion that's kind of toxic masculinity myths and the bravado and we started out talking about this with Obama having a kind of quiet dignified civility about him and I think if we lived in a world in which there weren't such an emphasis on this empty idea of Might and you know browbeating people into doing what you want them to do and you know greed and avarice as like a merit like if we didn't have that he could just be Obama and be this beautiful soul
00:38:27it wouldn't you know create the kids I don't think he created the conditions but I do look back and think I'm sorry did we know that Russia was tampering with our election in September and nobody did anything you want but I think part of what imperils us as a world is this illusion that acting out of fear it's disguised as strength and might and you know being more powerful it is at the root of everything we're doing to destroy ourselves it's all fear-based it's all about the terror that we're going to crumple and cry for 2 hours when something touches us but it feels good though it felt amazingly good cry is the last person I mentioned cuz I just think it's so interesting all this stuff is moved in together but Susan Orlean who is an underwriter
00:39:27physical crybabies she's got a pot I think it's a podcast I saw her do it live so this idea that crying you know I grew up with a coming-out junkrat what's wrong is everything is horrible stack it up you can't even be so what that does is it guarantees that you're like you know shunting off like in the show sell-by date I have everybody's on a shunt but you know you're basically saying I'm not willing to have this Human Experience I am unwilling to do this thing that my body and soul naturally want to do so that I can keep being human in the world and then you got to deal with the you know kind of all the Barnacles that collect on your soul because you refuse to cry or you cry it out let me tell you I have learned that crying is like the best drug ever it's free
00:40:27like it takes you someplace where you like this and then when you're done you feel lighter you fits or like everybody's got some kind of Frozen grief I think inside from whatever it is you know you're bullying frozen green frozen green and black tears are just that signing and sending you a little bit free or every time you cry so do it up get yourself some good sunglasses I walk around New York with sunglasses on all days especially cloudy days and when I need it I just have a good hard cry those beautiful are there are there any Topics in areas that you would that would be off-limits to you haven't heard them yet but probably you know I mean I think I'm I think my I have a sales floor myself lately and sometimes after the interviews.
00:41:19so I'm trying to practice discernment just at the same time but I find that whatever I think I need to hide or whatever I feel like I need to dodge is the place I should that should be my tree Point yeah yes I was just watching a little interview with David Bowie this morning where he talks about that where he's like you need to go a little bit deeper like you need to go to the place where you can stand and like that's where your best Works going to get made a hundred percent and I know it's true in life like I've discovered this thing that I know I'm not alone and it might not be everybody but I know there are other people who experienced this I have this strange like I don't shift gears well and so when I'm doing something that catapults me to you know some level of visibility of being on stage with White House was right example instead of anybody else is mine would be like this is awesome
00:42:17Alicia Keys just introduced us this is Brad let's have a good time with my mind was like this is terrifying we have to get the fuck out of here and I don't know what that is I don't know what that thing is like oh my God so much sunshine I'm blinded and I have to run away but I have that so in my life I have to go to the pain and I heard this great phrase that I love everything I want is just outside my comfort zone so I have to get uncomfortable in order to be become more useful that's what I've discovered otherwise I'll be pretty good I'll be okay or else I might even get to the point where people like your break but when they say you're great I'll just go run away and hide
00:43:01something that I don't know that there's a word for this but actually what I've heard is that humility the true definition of humility is not home not that and it's also not making yourself bigger than you are in some kind of false think it's being an acceptance of exactly who you are where you are and not judging or criticizing it so that your this is great what you're doing thank you you're allowed to say this great podcast saying I have this little thing that I'm doing is actually a lie if you can feel in your bones that what you're doing is Meaningful and you're hearing from all sides of this is helping people touching people it is actually a misalignment so you need to know some kind of creative Chiropractic
00:44:01being able to own that you've done something you believe in and that other people love and you love is humility is not bragging it's not being grandiose it's not you know who the fuck you think you are it's actually what would a line us all a lot better if we could just stop saying rock out with your fucking body and go do something useful with your instead of spending your time and I believe I'm saying this cuz I need to hear it no I mean you know the saying goes there's a there's a lid for every pot you know how to break up
00:44:40like he's not the lid lid Jones there's another lid out there and I don't have to diminish the lid on the pot that I am I don't have to make it something that it's not but I don't have to diminish it and I think that's the place when we talk about greatness I think greatness is acknowledging that every one of us has talents and gifts that we've been given I think for circumstantial reasons many people don't ever get to the word exploit almost came out but I'll explore we all get to explore thank you will see it as a luxury not only did I see it as a lunch that's a huge point but not only do they see it as a luxury maybe we'll chat they don't have it like it you know you go to if your singing and your kindergarten class and you just keep that down you'll never see me again you'll be 50 years old with this trap voice inside you and maybe you're awesome maybe
00:45:40sound like Bob Dylan and you do not pop out with you but you could have been Bob Dylan you'll never know so I think what's really interesting is where all given these gifts and you know like I loved you since I was a little girl I was automatically just walk up to a person start talking like I have no problem whatsoever with just changing to become somebody different and somebody tried to tell me what's wrong with your pic you talk to this one-night listen to talk to this one night. And what is wrong with you and thank God but I realize all these people are living inside me and I would be fake if I don't let them all have their turn and if I don't explore not exploit but explore all of what that means for me so I really think like the goal for me is
00:46:26allowing space for all of the things that move me and speak to me and sing to me what we were just talking about Moonlight if it cracks you open follow it you know follow your bliss like biggest Joseph Campbell or somebody said and we follow the check we were going to go to that says follow the skinny follow the you know the perfect marriage to the perfect person just keep listening for the still Small Voice that tells you what you love that's how you know who you are and I want to hurt somebody say this great thing it sounds so you know it sounds too simple to be worthwhile but the idea is that we only need to ask 3 questions in life ever who am I
00:47:10so that's it that's a deep question who am I not who did my dad tell me I am who does the world tell me I am Who Am I who do I know myself to be so who am I how do I feel not dude I'm fine or I feel fat the fat not a feeling how do I actually feel in this moment when I get if I can sit still long enough to access grief or Joy or you know longing or discomfort or confusion that I have the answer to that question like who am I how do I feel and then the third question is what do I need so once I'm done that first diagnostic test of like oh I feel lonely call somebody you know or like go outside and like me no chat to someone and tell tell the Barista you appreciate them like just connect and that I really think it is the opposite of our addiction as a country to you know all of the these crazy back alleys of you no disconnection and self alienation and burying her
00:48:10heads in the sand and pretending everything's fine that have lead us to a trump pocalypse I have to remind you to plug your stuff alright so I'm supposed to plug cuz you're she doesn't think so like what's got your shows going to be opening in LA on my plan is to move the show we don't know where we're going yet so more people will be able to have still lives on and if they go to Sarah Jones online.com or my social channels so they can find me on Twitter at Jones Sarah J o n e s a r a h just one as in the middle and complicated I more XO Sarah Jones Sarah so XO Sarah Jones esper Instagram that's for Instagram and Facebook group so but find me there cuz we'll be announcing what we're doing and the podcast launching and all the school stuff I'm so excited I couldn't think of a better gift for a 50th episode Star Jones this is been such a treat and a privilege thank you so much

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