Full Transcript for 291. Minister Mandy Gull-Masty: Should We Abolish The Indian Act?

terms of what would that look like? 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:28.400 Uh right now at this time, you know, we've had a preliminary conversation of trying to understand what that means. 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:38.639 And what next step would it take for us to, you know, first and foremost, ask communities, uh, what would it mean to move beyond the Indian Act? 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:50.319 Do you think that that is something if you get good input on, that's something we could see follow-through on within this administration, like within the next four years before the next election? 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:52.960 That would be extremely ambitious. 00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:54.719 That would be extremely ambitious. 00:02:54.719 --> 00:03:05.599 We want people to understand that if you're moving beyond the Indian Act, you're talking about, you know, first and foremost, looking at what it means when you're registered under the Indian Act, what does status mean? 00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:17.520 You're looking at governance, how do you create that pathway for communities to be able to determine what their governance system is going to look like if they're not under the Indian Act or what their electoral code would look like. 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:20.080 Uh, there's a huge conversation around land. 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:22.319 What does that land management look like? 00:03:22.319 --> 00:03:29.199 Uh, what does the federal oversight process look like as we would step out of this space and provide authority to community? 00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:36.000 So to me, uh, I can't say that I would be able to realistically put a time frame on that. 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:47.439 I do think that it would be over-ambitious for it to be achieved within one single mandate because there are so many complexities around where nations are at. 00:03:47.439 --> 00:03:50.879 You would have to build their capacity for them to leave the Union Act. 00:03:50.879 --> 00:04:02.479 Uh, and also there are so many levels of different governance and relationship with provincial and territorial governments that that would have to be part of the conversation too, and redefining that relationship space. 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:04.879 So it was an interesting comment. 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:07.759 Uh, is that going to happen in 2027? 00:04:07.759 --> 00:04:09.599 I wouldn't hold my breath. 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:17.279 Uh, is it something that, you know, you could see discussed by this government, you know, in the year coming forward? 00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:18.079 Maybe. 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:20.800 So will it be done within the mandate? 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:30.399 I don't think it would be sensible to assume that you can meet the needs of over 600 First Nations in that space uh within uh within that time frame. 00:04:31.199 --> 00:04:32.720 So this leads into the question. 00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:42.319 NDP MP Leah Gazin has described the Indian Act announcement as a distraction from your government's Bill C39 and its implications for Indigenous rights. 00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:50.319 Um and Senator Audette has also raised concerns that this conversation could overshadow the urgent need to pass Bill C2. 00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:56.160 And I'm just wondering, what are your thoughts on their concerns and their criticisms of this announcement? 00:04:56.720 --> 00:05:02.480 I'm I'm, you know, I'm always going to be uh respectful of MP Gazan uh Gazan's views. 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:07.839 I don't know if they necessarily reflect, you know, the approach that we're taking as a government. 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:11.120 There's been a lot of conversation around Bill C39. 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:20.480 This is one of the bills where it is aligning the internal mechanisms of the federal government to be more efficient and how it undertakes assessment. 00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:30.800 Right now, when you're doing uh a project in development, you are required to participate in two environmental assessment processes, the federal and the provincial. 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:32.480 It's quite duplicative. 00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:34.879 So that is one of the primary objectives. 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:45.600 And there's also, uh, and I've heard this from MP Kazan herself, the assumption that you would not be allocated sufficient time to be able to do the work that you need to do, which is not the case. 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:54.560 The bill actually says in plain writing that if First Nations wish to have additional time for further consultation or engagement, it shall be allocated to them. 00:05:54.560 --> 00:06:02.319 Um taking, you know, taking the position of the Senate, uh, they are the second sober thought to bills in the House. 00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:17.120 I'm going to be respectful of my senatorial colleague uh and, you know, maybe not comments on what she has shared, because I am trying to maintain that objectiveness and that neutrality of how the House of Commons and the Senate are supposed to work with one another. 00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:18.639 Well, thank you for that. 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:26.480 With respect, on February 27, 2026, you told Parliament that Bill S2 was necessary and urgent. 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:30.800 Since then, the government has resisted the Senate amendment, ending the second generation cutoff. 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:35.120 Consultations have since concluded, and the government has missed a court deadline. 00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:42.240 If we agree that rules are discriminatory, why hasn't your government worked to resolve this within the calendar year? 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:45.360 I'm sorry, could you repeat the first part of your question? 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:47.839 Because I didn't hear exactly what you said. 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:48.639 Sure. 00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:54.720 On February 27, 2026, you told Parliament that Bill S2 was necessary and urgent. 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:59.600 And since then, your government

has resisted the Senate amendment, ending the second generation cutoff. 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:02.959 Consultations have concluded, and the government has missed a court deadline. 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:06.959 If we agree it's discriminatory, why hasn't it been resolved yet? 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:18.399 Actually, what I had said on February, in February was that it was necessary and urgent for us to respond to the enfranchisement that the bill was originally set up to respond to. 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:26.560 So I want to be very clear that when I made that statement, I was speaking specifically about the enfranchisement that the bill is looking to address. 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:27.839 It is necessary. 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:28.879 There was a court hearing. 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:33.120 The Nicholas case uh, you know, urged government to be able to pass that. 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:38.800 Since we were, you know, still studying the bill and is still under parliamentary process in the House. 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:47.439 Uh, we are still respecting what is outlined in the NYClays decision, and we are moving files forward in terms of the people that have been enfranchised. 00:07:47.439 --> 00:08:03.759 Now, what I would like, you know, to be very clear upon is the second generation cutoff consultations, the collaborative consultations, had already been launched two years ago and they were underway during the whole discussion of Bill S2. 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:23.839 And one of my first public um interviews was stating that the enfranchisement bill S2 was what I was putting forward because it was very specific in terms of registration, and that, you know, we were looking at doing more work in the second generation cutoff space because that was a different type of registration. 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:26.879 I felt that it needed its own standalone legislation. 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:39.519 So while the Senate has decided that this was the time to add these second generation cutoff uh amendments to S2, uh, that is their prerogative as the second sober thought. 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:56.320 Uh, but it is my intention, uh, since I've been mandated to be in this role and still today, to really take an approach that is conducive to putting more than a one-parent rule uh lens on the space of registration. 00:08:56.320 --> 00:09:03.519 And I want people to understand that yes, there are some nations out there that wish to have a one-parent rule. 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:08.240 They would like to adopt that, they feel that it would be the best frame for their nation. 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:15.759 There are also nations out there that do not want to have a one-parent rule and want to be self-determining in that space. 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:22.720 And it's my duty as a minister to be able to find a pathway between those two uh points of the spectrum. 00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:28.480 I think there is a pathway to do that work, but I also want people to understand something really important. 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:41.679 Okay, I'm gonna go through the hypothetical scenario of if government passed Bill S2 and there were nations who did not wish to have that applied to them, what would that next result be? 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:44.639 It would be a challenge to the law. 00:09:44.639 --> 00:09:57.039 It would be something that would really infringe on the timeline of implementation because we have to respect the rights of those nations who wish not to have that law applied to them. 00:09:57.039 --> 00:10:04.399 So it's really important that, you know, you take the time to analyze, okay, what would it mean for us to have one parent rule in place? 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:13.519 What would it mean for us to create the space for communities to be self-determining in terms of looking at who their members are, what does it mean to be part of your nation? 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:18.480 And there's been, you know, a lot of feedback, a lot of discussion in this space. 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:26.399 There's also actually been a lot of commentary about, you know, attempts at saying that I'm misleading people. 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:28.080 I want to be very clear. 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:32.159 I'm not only speaking about membership and membership registration. 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:37.279 I'm actually speaking about status and what it means to be self-determining in status. 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:41.200 And that's something that I've heard from many nations across the country. 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:46.080 Uh I want to be respectful of everybody that has an opinion in this space. 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:55.120 But ultimately, I do subscribe to the belief that First Nations need to determine who their members are, what it means to be a part of their nation. 00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:56.480 How does that look like? 00:10:56.480 --> 00:11:03.519 That's for them to do the work, and it's for me to be uh in my ministerial role and providing the pathway for them to action that. 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:46.480 Thank you for that. 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:48.480 I'd like to ask a personal question. 00:11:48.480 --> 00:12:00.399 As you may recall, in 2019, Jody Wilson Raybald refused to take on the file that you now carry because she opposed the admin being the person administering the Indian Act. 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:07.919 And I wonder, just on this note of who's indigenous, who's not, how have you personally come to fill this role? 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:08.559 What is it? 00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:17.919 It do you feel at times your own indigenity is impacted by trying to manage this very complicated government-led file? 00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:21.120 How do you process sitting in the seat you're in today? 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:27.279 Um It's not easy to take on this role. 00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:33.039 It's not easy to be the minister that implements the responsibility of the Indian Act. 00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:36.480 I do not

enjoy being that minister. 00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:52.879 But what I do enjoy is knowing that the changes that you can action, the discussions, the conversations that you can have in trying to remove the harms of the Indian Act are part of the role that I have in being progressive for First Nations. 00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:55.360 And I accepted this role. 00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:58.000 I have a lot of respect for Mrs. 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:03.679 Ray Bowles, but her decision was hers at that time with that prime minister. 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:06.079 This is a new government, this is a new prime minister. 00:13:06.079 --> 00:13:07.279 I'm a new minister. 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:18.079 I took on this initiative because as a former leader, I know that if you are not at the table, decisions are being made about you, irregardless of whether you are there or not. 00:13:18.079 --> 00:13:32.079 And for me to come into this space with my my other colleagues who are part of cabinet and to be able to have that voice and to be able to have these conversations is pushing the government into a new space with the parameters of the Indian Act. 00:13:32.079 --> 00:13:52.959 And I'm very happy and pleased to remove barrier, to remove the constrictions of the Indian Act and to do everything that I can in my power to be sure that as we move forward, there's a new relationship, there's a new role, there's more empowerment, there's more space for communities to decide for themselves because we have that capacity. 00:13:52.959 --> 00:13:55.199 We have the capability to do that. 00:13:55.199 --> 00:14:05.839 So my decision to accept was to be sure that the change that I expect from government and from how First Nations people are governed in this country is met. 00:14:05.839 --> 00:14:14.559 And if I have to be the one who goes in there and does it, then I hope that I am the first of many who will continue to take down the barriers and the walls of the Indian Act. 00:14:15.199 --> 00:14:20.159 You also became the first woman elected grand chief of the Cree Nation government. 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:26.720 And I'm wondering, you sat in that seat, likely trying to hold government to account, pushing them to deliver on things. 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:27.519 What is it? 00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:35.120 What is the change in perspective that you now have sitting in the seat you're in, where at one point in time you would have been pushing the minister to deliver. 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:36.879 Now you are the minister. 00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:40.000 Is there like lessons learned or behind the scenes? 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:42.799 Is it harder to accomplish things than you might have expected? 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:45.839 I'm just wondering what the difference between those two worlds are. 00:14:46.319 --> 00:15:18.319 Huge, huge difference because being a client of ISC and then becoming the minister, just seeing and understanding all of the steps that have to be taken for a decision was really surprising to me because it is quite complex in terms of how the political ministerial office works, the department side, the public servants, how they have to action a decision, how we are accountable to our own internal measures, how we find alignment and balance between those two things. 00:15:18.319 --> 00:15:24.399 It did make me realize why I did not get, you know, the answer that I wanted and the time that I wanted. 00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:29.919 And it also caused me to pick up the phone and call some former ministers and say, hey, you know what? 00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:30.959 So sorry. 00:15:30.959 --> 00:15:32.399 I was so rough on you. 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:36.879 I didn't understand how complex this system was. 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:52.639 And in addition, I think uh part of the learnings that I have as a minister is really seeing that parliamentary process in the legislative space and how it translates into action and being implemented by the public service domain. 00:15:52.639 --> 00:16:08.319 So all of the policy development in that space, the mechanisms that you have to use for engagement, for consultation, for collaboration, finding a pathway when, you know, policy works in one community but doesn't work in another. 00:16:08.319 --> 00:16:25.679 This has probably been one of, I think, the greatest highlights for me so far is being able to work with a prime minister that hears, understands, and accepts that regionalization of how we work with indigenous people in this country is the next approach. 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:30.639 You can't have a national pan decision-making process and apply that to everybody. 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:32.799 First Nations are not all in the same space. 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:34.000 So I'm really pleased. 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:42.480 This is not one of the headlines that you'll see, but I found that that was something very, very progressive in terms of the decisions that we've taken so far. 00:16:42.959 --> 00:17:04.400 I'm very grateful to hear that because one of my chief frustrations is we work with Indigenous Services Canada BC, and I often find that they need to go back to Ottawa to get approval or to get support, or that a lot of the policies controlling decisions are not led by the BC Indigenous Services Canada, but by centralized control systems. 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:09.680 And that's my regular critique to them is I'd like to see this where we can just have a conversation and resolve this. 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:12.480 Because you can come to my community next week and see. 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:20.160 But for yourself as minister or for people out in Ontario, they're not going to come to my community and understand the real circumstances on the ground. 00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:20.960 Good. 00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:22.480 Happy that you're pleased. 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:24.720 We are continuing to improve in this space. 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:29.759 So more than willing to

receive feedback on your thoughts of how that's looking like in real time. 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:34.000 Really glad to hear that, you know, you you feel that this is the right path. 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:42.799 When I interviewed conservative MP Billy Morin, he had shared that you had personally messaged him to discuss crossing the floor to the liberals. 00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:45.680 He also suggested the discussion was around getting enough MPs. 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:49.119 And I'm wondering if I can get your perspective on what happened there. 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:54.720 I uh, you know, I really have a lot of respect for MP Morin. 00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:57.839 Yes, I constantly texted him. 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:00.160 Um, I think more in a joke. 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.920 I didn't really think that he was somebody that would be a four-crosser. 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:13.759 But yeah, on a number of occasions, I texted him, hey Billy, a lot of friendly faces that are familiar on this side, hoping you would consider joining. 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:16.559 Um, I think that, you know, all bets were off. 00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:20.000 There were a lot of people coming over on the liberal side. 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:26.319 Uh, if he had wanted to do that, I know that this party would have, you know, been one that would have received him. 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:34.879 I think that Billy was, you know, maybe making more of a story than the actual conversations, you know, that were taking place. 00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:36.079 Got it. 00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:44.160 The Auditor General had found that Indigenous Services Canada had failed to effectively implement and measure its new fiscal relationship with First Nations. 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:46.000 We've seen billions invested. 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:51.599 I don't think that that can be denied, but insufficient evidence about whether those investments are closing the gap. 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:53.599 And I'm wondering how do you digest that? 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:59.440 What are the steps needed in order to really address the living conditions in community? 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:01.839 This is such a good question. 00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:04.079 I really appreciate that you brought this up. 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:06.960 I have a lot of respect for the Auditor General. 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:10.480 I think that, you know, she has an incredibly important role. 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:17.519 Uh, it is one where she looks at standard accounting practices and applies that lens on the work that government does. 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:23.759 I think there's a component of that that it that can be measured uh within Indigenous Services Canada. 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:36.879 But I have to say that the nuances of, you know, accounting practices do not always reflect what it is that First Nations are prioritizing in terms of advancing their nations. 00:19:36.879 --> 00:19:45.440 And I don't know if a binary

pass-fail system is the appropriate lens to measure how communities are moving forward. 00:19:45.440 --> 00:20:00.399 And I'm saying that because in this country, we have some extremely high capacity, innovative, very advanced communities that don't really come to Indigenous Services Canada, you know, for very much service. 00:20:00.399 --> 00:20:06.160 Uh, they're able to operate internally, they're able to advance the needs of their members. 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:18.960 And then we have some communities that are really in a space where they're more challenged, they're challenged with just daily operations, they need a lot of support, uh, they need, you know, a lot of programming services to build up. 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:21.440 There's not a lot of innovation opportunity. 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:23.839 Often they're very remote, they're isolated. 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:30.639 So that's quite a huge spectrum to group everybody into one, you know, criteria for measurement. 00:20:30.639 --> 00:20:34.960 I don't think is adequate or reflective of how they're advancing. 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:43.519 And the criteria for, you know, measuring change, I think has to really be what the community wants it to be. 00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:52.879 You know, I can come in with my calculator and say, you know, X number of square footage has been added to a building. 00:20:52.879 --> 00:21:04.799 But if that building is a school that has extremely low attendance rates and they've gone from, you know, 12% to 78%, that's a huge increase. 00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:07.920 And that is the case in some of the servicing that we do. 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:13.039 We've seen in some places, you know, an increase of 10% overall in graduation rates. 00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:15.519 That might not seem like a huge number. 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:16.720 It is not 100%. 00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:19.519 I'll I'll give that to the auditor general. 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:24.960 But that 10% actually, you know, responds to a number that was quite low. 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:27.440 It could have been in the 1 to 2% range. 00:21:27.440 --> 00:22:07.839 So while I want to respect the work that she does, I also think, you know, one of my objectives as a minister is to have a conversation around if we are going to do auditing of First Nations and we're going to do evaluation, the component of culture that is not reflected in standard accounting practices has to be taken into consideration because we are doing the work of providing service, we are doing the work of supporting operations, but we're also doing the work of protecting, reinforcing, uplifting, in some cases, even ensuring that, you know, things like identity, language, and culture are returned to community and protected in community. 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:13.039 And this is something that I don't think is always represented in the Auditor General's reports. 00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:15.440 You know, I read them, I respond to them. 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:18.240 I think for me it's it's a guide and a tool. 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:24.960 Is it the same outcome and the same report that we get from community in terms of how things are advancing? 00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:34.559 Not necessarily in all cases, but it it is one of the one of the measuring sticks that's in the kit to see and assess what we're doing and moving things forward. 00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:39.039 One of the pieces that's somewhat inside baseball, but I'd just be interested in your. 00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:46.960 Thoughts on because as a First Nations chief, I'm trying to figure out what path is uh has the brightest light at the end of the tunnel, I suppose. 00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:55.920 And one, I just uh MC'd leading the way, the conference with First Nations Financial Management Board, the Lions Advisory Board, the Tax Commission. 00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:02.319 And I'm just wondering, they're doing such innovative stuff to support First Nations and really developing their sovereignty. 00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:08.319 But I don't always hear them in the same conversation as Treaty or when we're talking about leaving the Indian Act. 00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:12.879 They are taking steps to remove authorities from the Indian Act. 00:23:12.879 --> 00:23:18.319 How optimistic or how excited are you about the work that they're doing to uh down that path? 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:23.519 Is that the path you think is likely the way out for many First Nation communities of the Indian Act? 00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:26.720 The work that they're doing is extremely progressive. 00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:28.079 I'm really encouraged by it. 00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:31.839 That, you know, that space is going to serve a lot of communities. 00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:40.879 It's going to be an outlet for them to maximize everything that they want to do in terms of development, uh, OSR and the own source revenue space. 00:23:40.879 --> 00:23:48.720 It's going to create for them tools to be accountable to their membership, to have a better way to communicate that information. 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:54.720 It is the decision and the responsibility of communities to do that work. 00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:59.279 Sometimes some of the tools that are in place work really well for some nations. 00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:05.759 Sometimes I think there's a lot more capacity building that has to be undertaken to help support communities. 00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:15.359 I really believe that accountability and transparency are two things that are absolutely necessary if you want to be elected into a leadership role. 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:26.160 If people are selecting you to make decisions for their community, for their nation, for their future outcomes, you have the responsibility to communicate that back to them. 00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:33.519 And there are some very clear instances in this country and some communities where that is not demonstrated. 00:24:33.519

--> 00:25:00.639 And it is my role as a minister to be able to ensure that leadership has all of the necessary tools in place to help them showcase that accountability and transparency to their members in the best way possible, with documentation, with clarity, with measures for how they want their communication to be carried out either in their language, in English, or in French, and to be respectful of that space. 00:25:00.639 --> 00:25:10.480 Because that's that's the lens that I carry as a former leader that we held our government um meetings in our language. 00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:19.119 It was live streamed, it was on the radio, uh, we had multiple general assemblies, we showed our financial position, people could ask us questions. 00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:20.799 There was a lot of follow follow-up. 00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:24.240 So I do understand how that worked within my nation. 00:25:24.240 --> 00:26:01.920 But it is my expectation that as we push things forward and we get into a working relationship and more resources made available to you to make leadership decisions, that you are also making those decisions based on the direction that you get from your members, the input that you have from your elders, that you've taken the time to listen to the youth in your community, that there's space for women, that you are reaching out to those people who need representation, you know, in two-spirited spaces, that you're taking into consideration those that are struggling in the social space. 00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:09.519 Uh, you, as a chief, know yourself the importance of all of the different tools and all of the different people that you represent. 00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:11.920 And you need those two things to mesh and align. 00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:27.359 So for me, accountability and transparency, it's about making sure that your members know and understand that you are making the best decision for them based on what they've told you, but you're also being clear on how you're trying to get there. 00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:31.440 What do you hope your legacy is within this file? 00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:44.399 Uh, well, I think, you know, one part of my legacy is probably going to be uh sealed on day one that I decided to become the Minister of Indigenous Services Canada. 00:26:44.399 --> 00:27:20.559 What I what I don't think will always be known and understood because it's not the popular part of the work, uh, you know, that we made a lot of internal decisions that really reshape the space to take consideration of the uniqueness of First Nations, their relationship with their territory, their who they are as First Nations people, the pride of being able to speak your language, to grow up in community, uh to honor your cultural practices, to also really understand that although we are one First Nations people in this country, we are not able to all have the same approach, same solution. 00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:24.319 That regionalization approach is

really important to me. 00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:32.079 Uh, and also, you know, I think being in this space to say, I am an agent of change. 00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:43.920 I am somebody who's going to introduce new ways of thinking, that I'm going to challenge my colleagues to pay, you know, attention and be aware of how their ministries also serve Indigenous people. 00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:48.319 It's not just the work of Indigenous Services Canada or CERNA or Northern Affairs. 00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:55.359 We at Cabinet, the entirety of the Cabinet table, have a component of the Indigenous thread that runs through our ministries. 00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:58.319 Um, those are things that are really important to me. 00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:06.319 Uh at the end, I guess I'll see what was the most popular thing or least popular thing, uh, and you know, have a reflection at that time. 00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:10.079 The work that you do right now, you're not working to build a legacy. 00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:18.319 You're just working to do change, change management, systems change, changing the way people are thinking of First Nations. 00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:20.720 Uh there's often a lot of opinion. 00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:27.759 I really challenge people, you know, to ask questions when they read stuff or, you know, they listen to the Facebook news. 00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:29.359 Uh, I'm somebody that's very open. 00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:30.639 I like to give information. 00:28:30.639 --> 00:28:32.079 I like to respond to questions. 00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:34.879 I'm available on all social media platforms. 00:28:34.879 --> 00:28:43.039 I don't always answer back in, you know, five minutes, but I am somebody that likes to be open because the accountability and transparency also applies to me. 00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:48.319 I like to give people the uh, you know, the inside look on what my thinking is. 00:28:48.799 --> 00:29:03.119 Is there an issue within the ministry that you would like to see changed by the time you're done, that you would be able to rest easier at the end of your term or at the end of this work that you can say that was something that was important to me? 00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:16.720 I'm going to say the most important thing to me is the launch of the pathway forward in how Indigenous Services Canada should actually not be a ministry that exists. 00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:24.480 It is a space that First Nations communities have a lot of capacity to be able to do their own service delivery, their own decision making. 00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:28.639 I don't know if this is something that can be done in one mandate. 00:29:28.639 --> 00:29:56.240 I don't think it is because it kind of falls within the space of, you know, moving beyond the Indian Act, but I do think that the more we are able to empower a community to do the work of Indigenous Services Canada, just the better it's going to be for them in serving their nation, serving their members, creating a stronger pathway, developing a community that people are proud to live in, that they want to contribute to, that they feel strong about who they are. 00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:59.519 How that's going to look, I don't know. 00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:12.480 But, you know, this was what I shared with the prime minister when I took on this role that I really felt Indigenous Services Canada is a space that, you know, is not going to be necessary forever and we should move away from it. 00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:19.839 So I have my own, I guess, similar thinking to uh, you know, Premier Canu and how we need to empower community to do this work. 00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:24.000 Um, but we'll see, we'll see how much I can push that forward. 00:30:24.639 --> 00:30:28.879 Should Indian residential school denialism be criminalized? 00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:32.879 This is such a tough space to be in. 00:30:32.879 --> 00:30:36.559 This is such a you know a hard conversation to have. 00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:51.599 I come from a nation where I was asked to be part of um the delegation that went to Rome to give the Pope, former Pope uh Francis, advice on his journey to Canada. 00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:55.759 And I had gone into that space with one very specific view. 00:30:55.759 --> 00:31:04.960 But I went there knowing that I was responsible for opening a conversation about a really challenging space for First Nations survivors. 00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:14.960 And I remained neutral, of my own opinion, to try to be able to create that space and listen to all of the different reflections that I heard. 00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:33.519 This was probably one of the most challenging things that I've ever participated on to sit with the Pope, to hear survivors tell their story, to hear the harm, but to also hear that some survivors were not able to forgive, were not able to talk about what had happened to them. 00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:45.039 And then to also hear some survivors to talk about forgiveness and the healing and how it helped them move into a new space of how they live with the truth and reality of what had happened to them. 00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:46.879 That's a really big spectrum. 00:31:46.879 --> 00:31:48.639 That's a really big spectrum. 00:31:48.639 --> 00:32:06.160 And when I think about denialists and I think about the messages that they share, I often feel that we as governments, provincial, federal, territorial, and school system, could do a better job of communicating to people the realities of what happened in residential school. 00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:07.200 I think this is lacking. 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:09.119 It's probably my biggest critique. 00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:15.119 Uh, when I was in high school, we learned about Christopher Columbus sailing the ocean boom, 1942. 00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:18.559 Very little to zero on residential school. 00:32:18.559 --> 00:32:28.319 And I think this is a conversation that we need to have to bring down uh, you

know, people's ignorance of just not understanding or not being aware. 00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:34.240 Uh, I also come from a place of being somebody who is trained in conflict management. 00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:41.599 Uh, it was probably one of the tools that helped me shape my vision on being a peace practitioner. 00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:49.200 And the restorative justice approach and the restorative relationship building is something that, you know, I value. 00:32:49.200 --> 00:33:06.160 I don't know if meeting somebody who's denying residential school with criminalization and putting them in jail is going to be the best pathway forward for that person who's ignorant in their belief, who doesn't know any better. 00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:11.519 And is that going to help the residential school survivors deal with that? 00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:28.079 Because one of the things you know that I shared with my colleagues on the Hill is if we were to go down that path, every time somebody would be put in jail, it is residential school survivors that would bear the brunt of people sharing their views. 00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:32.240 And I think that is another layer of harm that is unnecessary. 00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:35.119 I don't want to put them into that space. 00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:38.799 For some people, that may be something that they're willing to accept. 00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:51.039 Uh, but you know, I really listened to my elders in my region, the residential school survivors that I worked with, who shaped my thinking in this space, and just felt that for me, that's not the right pathway forward. 00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:57.759 We need to do more work in being sure that people are educated, that they understand that you give information. 00:33:57.759 --> 00:34:07.119 For some people it will work, for some people they will never accept because they're just ignorant or they're blatantly racist and they're always going to do that. 00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:11.599 Unfortunately, uh, you know, that is their decision, that is their path. 00:34:11.599 --> 00:34:24.880 But I think that 90% of people would be open to learning, would be, would probably have a different lens if they personally understood and went through, you know, an experience of working with residential school survivors. 00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:38.559 And if anything, I would love to see a denialist go to Indigenous community and do work and support and go, you know, spend time and trying to understand the impact that that system had on their family. 00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:41.760 I think that would be an extremely valuable experience for them. 00:34:43.200 --> 00:34:48.320 Minister, that was the best answer I have heard to date in regards to this. 00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:56.560 I've spoken to former Minister Gary Nanandassangere, and with great respect to him, I just felt like yours was much more clear. 00:34:56.560 --> 00:35:03.840 My big fear is exactly what you're describing, that this adds fuel to the fire and creates a complex topic. 00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:10.160 Like I'm sure you're aware of the Camluke's 215 question, that remains have not been excavated. 00:35:10.160 --> 00:35:24.640 And so people that from my from everything I can understand, I've interviewed Francis Widowson, I've interviewed uh Nigel Bagar, Candace Milcom, some of these people who are described as denialists, and they're not denying harms at Indian residential schools happened. 00:35:24.640 --> 00:35:27.200 They're not denying that Indian residential schools exist. 00:35:27.200 --> 00:35:33.440 They are questioning and challenging whether or not 215 unmarked graves are at Kamloop's residential site. 00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:42.960 And I understand that that can be offensive to many of the people there who may feel that they know that there are unmarked graves there, but graves have not been excavated. 00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:46.240 And it's reasonable to say that it is a question at that site. 00:35:46.240 --> 00:35:57.440 And to turn this into everybody's denying the harms of Indian residential school, I think is really dangerous and misses the mark on what the issue between the two communities are. 00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:04.160 And I fear that we're getting into a more polarized issue with First Nations and Canadians. 00:36:04.160 --> 00:36:13.120 And I'm wondering, do you feel that same way that the temperature has risen somewhat since that 215 unmarked grave story between the two communities, Canadian and the United States? 00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:13.519 I do. 00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:22.080 I mean, you know, people can ask questions around what is the status of the work that's being done in Campos. 00:36:22.080 --> 00:36:26.480 I think that is uh a reasonable question. 00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:29.280 I also think that there's tact and there's respect. 00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:33.760 And the way that denialists are doing it lacks both of those things. 00:36:33.760 --> 00:37:01.280 And for you to understand the progress of where community is and doing the work with, you know, all of the the um the lidar, all of the complexities of, you know, understanding who was in school, where's the documentation, who are these community members, working with the community and trying to understand what that next step is, how to be respectful, how to follow ceremony. 00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:10.640 It is so nuanced and specific to each nation uh that you have to be in a good space to have patience to do that work. 00:37:10.640 --> 00:37:30.080 The temperature going up in terms of people questioning, I think to me, is really disgusting to know that in Canada there are people that are asking that question with the promotion of merchandise that says, do you have bonds? 00:37:30.080 --> 00:37:33.840 Or even asking if there were people buried. 00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:43.840 We are the only group in Canada that has to defend and has to demonstrate atrocities that were carried out against

them. 00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:46.080 This is not the appropriate way. 00:37:46.080 --> 00:37:49.040 So, like I said, there's a way to ask a question. 00:37:49.040 --> 00:37:52.320 You can be respectful, you can have tact. 00:37:52.320 --> 00:38:15.200 If you want to learn what the outcome is, then you can take better steps to do it than demonstrating and representing extremely racist organizations and getting into public spaces and making statements that are very harmful to residential school survivors and communities that are doing the work to answer to the projects that are being carried out. 00:38:15.200 --> 00:38:26.080 In my own community, they're still undertaking the work of trying to have information and answers for families that do not know where their children are. 00:38:26.080 --> 00:38:29.360 And I think that's the thing we have to remember at the end of the day. 00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:43.200 There is a child out there that has never been returned to their parents, that they don't have information on where that child is, that it could not be bothered to document what occurred with that child's life. 00:38:43.200 --> 00:38:59.120 And for somebody to come and further perpetuate uncertainty or questioning or even ask for validation of whether or not that should be carried out is very harmful to the parents in the extended family that are missing that child. 00:38:59.120 --> 00:39:11.360 So I want people that are listening today, you know, respect tact, but also understanding that you're asking a question about a human being that was never returned and taken away wrongfully from a family. 00:39:12.560 --> 00:39:14.560 Minister, I recently interviewed Dr. 00:39:14.560 --> 00:39:19.360 Cindy Blackstock, who had spent her life fighting for decades for First Nations children. 00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:28.080 She described how the federal government previously monitored her movements, and she still says she still hasn't received assurances that the surveillance has ended. 00:39:28.080 --> 00:39:34.960 She also argues that your government continues to resist reforms she believes would end First Nations discrimination. 00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:37.600 How do you respond to those concerns? 00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:44.640 I mean, I can't speak to the part about uh, you know, what she's claiming around surveillance. 00:39:44.640 --> 00:39:47.200 I really don't have a lot of information around that. 00:39:47.200 --> 00:39:54.400 I could speak to the part about the bill and speak to the part about the work that is being done uh with CFS. 00:39:54.400 --> 00:40:02.960 I think that there has been a very long-standing, decades-long attempt to try to have agreement in this space. 00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:04.480 And, you know, Dr. 00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:07.840 Boxak has done a lot of work, a lot of research. 00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:10.240 Uh, I'm not diminishing that in any way. 00:40:10.240 --> 00:40:15.600 I want to be very respectful to her position and the things

that she's been able to achieve. 00:40:15.600 --> 00:40:39.440 Um, but I'm also somebody that's taking on this role uh with a pragmatic lens and proposing to have a pathway forward with no determined outcome, no determined budget, no determined process that is really oriented to like a very large uh open space is very challenging for government to respond to. 00:40:39.440 --> 00:41:06.320 I am looking at trying to ensure that communities know how and have the right tools available to them to make decisions, to action a plan that is going to meet the needs of their children, that is going to give them, you know, a structure on the decision making, on understanding with clarity the funds that are available to them to action that plan, uh, that the criteria is in place for them to be more defining in this space. 00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:25.840 I just want to be clear that people understand while one national framework is the proposed process for myself really looking at that regional lens and understanding what kids need in Ontario is very different from what kids need in BC. 00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:30.720 And I'm trying to create a mechanism where I empower community to make those decisions. 00:41:30.720 --> 00:41:48.400 How they want to do that, if they want to do that within their leadership level, within uh advisory bodies from their elders, from their women, from working with their agencies, from standing up agencies, it's really up to them because I respect the space that communities do this work in. 00:41:48.400 --> 00:41:59.040 And for me, I'm always trying to, you know, inform communities that the regional agreements process is something that was accepted by the tribunal. 00:41:59.040 --> 00:42:02.880 Um, it is a challenging space to be in, even with that decision. 00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:04.800 But I have a mandate. 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:13.920 I'm pushing for communities to come and ask questions and be informed on what it means to have a regional agreement, what are the parameters of what that looks like? 00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:20.320 How can I help you be sure that you are going to build on the information that's needed as you action this agreement? 00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:22.560 What does it mean beyond the agreement? 00:42:22.560 --> 00:42:25.519 Because that's what relationship with government is. 00:42:25.519 --> 00:42:33.120 You know, you have a time frame, you are able to make decisions within that time frame, and that's going to inform your next steps. 00:42:33.120 --> 00:42:38.320 Um, children in care, the ultimate objective is going to be zero children in care. 00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:41.840 Do I think that's going to happen within the next seven years? 00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:43.519 In some communities, yes. 00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:52.960 You know, I was able to visit in the interior of BC, Chocotine, they had zero children in care once they took over and developed their own system. 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:58.560 In some communities,

you know, it would it would take longer for them to be able to achieve that target. 00:42:58.560 --> 00:43:07.440 But working with communities where they are, giving them the tools that they need, being able to create a frame for them so that they can define that space. 00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:11.440 Uh, why children are going into care is unique to each nation. 00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:21.440 There are some general national things that occur, but I'm also cognizant that, you know, your environment shapes a lot of impact on community and community's families. 00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:36.720 So I'm trying to create that space to be respectful of the work that was undertaken, but also be sure that communities can make a decision and have access to the resources that they need now to start building for long term and how they want to stand things up for themselves. 00:43:37.680 --> 00:43:40.000 Two more questions, and thank you so much for your time. 00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:48.080 Prime Minister Mark Carney recently announced discussions about a First Nations sovereign wealth fund and new revenue sharing mechanisms. 00:43:48.080 --> 00:44:00.640 How do we move First Nations away from dependence on annual federal funding and towards economic independence without making participation in resource projects a condition of that prosperity? 00:44:00.640 --> 00:44:02.560 Or does it need to be? 00:44:04.080 --> 00:44:12.480 The discussion around federal, uh around the sovereign wealth fund was yes, in relation to a federal position on natural resource development. 00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:13.920 I think that's one kind. 00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:17.280 Um, it's not a space that I would limit community to. 00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:23.600 I don't, I don't think you should have one uh revenue generating stream for your nation. 00:44:23.600 --> 00:44:27.680 You really need to explore what kind of opportunity is there for you. 00:44:27.680 --> 00:44:33.040 There are some communities that will want to opt into, you know, a sovereign wealth fund. 00:44:33.040 --> 00:44:35.519 What will that fund respond to? 00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:37.600 How will it create resources? 00:44:37.600 --> 00:44:49.920 Is it going to be kind Of, like, a greater investment stream where communities can access uh you know a percentage of what's being generated so that they can carry out cultural implementation programs. 00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:50.800 I really don't know. 00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:52.240 It's an undefined space. 00:44:52.240 --> 00:44:55.040 I think it's an interesting conversation to have. 00:44:55.040 --> 00:45:00.400 Um, are communities looking to develop their own internal wealth? 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:01.360 Probably. 00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:03.360 There's a lot of tools available to them. 00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:05.920 There's a lot of innovators in this space. 00:45:05.920 --> 00:45:28.160 Um, I encourage leadership right now, whether you are in the path of a major project or in a national development uh space, to start doing the work with your council and the members in your community and ask conversations around how we can be in a space where we want to take on this responsibility as part of our mandate. 00:45:28.160 --> 00:45:44.800 Uh, having an investment strategy, having a policy on how you wish to be consulted, having all of the tools, uh, having people come in to speak to you from other nations that have gone through an experience of development, uh, both successes and challenges. 00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:47.120 These are all important questions to ask. 00:45:47.120 --> 00:45:51.040 There's a there's going to be a lot of work to be done in this space. 00:45:51.040 --> 00:45:53.360 What does a sovereign wealth fund look like? 00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:54.080 I don't know. 00:45:54.080 --> 00:46:01.600 I think there's going to be more work to be done within the AFN, within groups that are not represented by the AFN. 00:46:01.600 --> 00:46:06.800 There's a lot of conversation in the spaces that deliver service for investment. 00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:14.320 Uh, I think this will be uh something that's going to be interesting, but probably also challenging to action. 00:46:15.600 --> 00:46:22.720 May I ask, do you feel like you're going to be developing this system, or will this be led more by the Prime Minister's office? 00:46:23.120 --> 00:46:28.240 Well, we do do a lot of stuff at Indigenous Services Canada already. 00:46:28.240 --> 00:46:39.200 Um I really believe that one of the, for me, one of the priorities as minister is to enhance that capacity developing space. 00:46:39.200 --> 00:46:55.280 Uh, we do do a lot of service delivery, but building capacity and having conversations about how to empower communities to look at that development space, to look at the lens that they have is work that uh, you know, Indigenous Services Canada can fulfill. 00:46:55.280 --> 00:47:01.200 Probably going to be in collaboration with my colleagues, uh, Minister Alti, Minister Chartran. 00:47:01.200 --> 00:47:06.240 I think there's more than one space that this conversation lives in. 00:47:06.240 --> 00:47:27.280 But I also really strongly feel that if you are in First Nations leadership, um, you know, you have to have that critical lens of asking yourself, if my community members have expectation for me to create employment or to create revenue for investment into the community, what is that path? 00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:28.880 What is that path? 00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:37.120 I come from a nation that's been, you know, highly developed, uh highly impacted by hydroelectric forestry mining. 00:47:37.120 --> 00:47:45.920 Uh, we took on a lens of sustainable development, of trying to ensure that it's harmonized with our cultural activities, with our relationship with territory. 00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:56.240 Uh, that has been both a space that has been, you know, given us benefits, but has also been a space that has been really hard and

challenging to live in. 00:47:56.240 --> 00:48:05.200 Uh all parts of that uh pathway forward are things that, you know, with each year we are learning more and more and going through more and more. 00:48:05.200 --> 00:48:08.160 But that's a conversation that you need to have with your members. 00:48:08.160 --> 00:48:09.519 Where are we in that space? 00:48:09.519 --> 00:48:12.400 What does sustainable development look like for us? 00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:16.480 Or if we are not open to development, then what is the alternative? 00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:30.800 How can we generate revenue for our community so that we can go out and pursue the things that our members want us to do that are not deliverable, you know, from government program or from, you know, whatever other funding sources that come into the community. 00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:32.800 This is really important for leadership. 00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:44.560 You want to be a leader, you want to be somebody who protects people, but you want to be a builder, you want to be a developer, and you want to be respectful of what it is uh your members are asking you to do with that space. 00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:49.440 Minister, I understand you have two dogs, Minnie and Monica. 00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:52.640 And you actually wrote a book, a children's book, inspired by them. 00:48:52.640 --> 00:48:54.800 Could you share a little bit about the book? 00:48:54.800 --> 00:48:59.280 It goes through being different, experiencing bullying, and finding acceptance. 00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:01.120 Could you tell us about the book you wrote? 00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:01.840 Sure. 00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:04.640 I have two dogs, Chinese crested dogs. 00:49:04.640 --> 00:49:06.000 They are hairless. 00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:09.040 Uh, I do have a copy of my book right here. 00:49:09.040 --> 00:49:11.760 Uh, Minnie and Monica. 00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:13.360 This book is trilingual. 00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:16.400 It's in French, English, and in Cree language. 00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:20.400 Uh, we launched this book as an initiative to talk about bullying. 00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:28.000 Uh, the story is about my dogs and how they look different and how they get bullied at the dog park by other dogs that have fur. 00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:48.320 Uh, it was a project that we launched, and and I still continue to do work in this space to talk about show, to talk with children about bullying, about being kind to one another, about how you know we can accept people that look different and how we have to be uh inviting, and that there's a lot of opportunity to make new friends and to learn new things. 00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:53.680 Uh I usually at the end of those classroom visits bring Minnie in. 00:49:53.680 --> 00:49:58.960 Children are quite shocked when they see uh the dog from the book showing up in class. 00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:02.080 It's really been an interesting space. 00:50:02.080 --> 00:50:07.519 Kids of any age have the most

interesting things to tell you. 00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:10.000 They have all kinds of questions. 00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:19.680 I think it really helps them understand who their leaders are, that they can see themselves in these spaces, that is a, you know, there's that human connection. 00:50:19.680 --> 00:50:22.000 I've absolutely adored these things. 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:24.080 Uh, I've done it within my own nation. 00:50:24.080 --> 00:50:26.880 I'm looking forward to doing it in other nations as well. 00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:28.640 Minnie doesn't travel as much. 00:50:28.640 --> 00:50:36.320 She's getting quite uh up there in terms of age, but this is a space that I encourage leadership to think about too. 00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:43.760 You are there to serve people who vote for you, but you are there to make decisions for the people who can't even vote yet. 00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:58.320 And getting into classrooms and working with kids for me has been such a profoundly eye-opening conversation, what their worries are, what their concerns are, what they're going through, just taking the time to chat with kids. 00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:05.840 Now I see kids that, you know, I visited while they were in grade one, are now in grade two and three, and they know who I am. 00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:12.640 And I think it just helps them understand that when we're a part of a nation, we all have a responsibility to give back. 00:51:12.640 --> 00:51:14.320 Uh, we all have a role to play. 00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:22.960 Whether you are 75 or five years old, uh, a good leader will know and understand the things that are important to all of their members. 00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:25.360 Final question, Minister. 00:51:25.360 --> 00:51:31.760 I always try and put myself in the shoes of people I may disagree with just to understand where there's a difference. 00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:37.680 And one thing I'm hearing more and more is the question: when does reconciliation come to an end? 00:51:37.680 --> 00:51:42.320 Everybody acknowledges that I know the atrocities of the past. 00:51:42.320 --> 00:51:46.400 Billions have been spent to try and address that and support families. 00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:48.400 Court cases have resulted in settlements. 00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:53.440 And I'm just wondering from your perspective as minister, is there an endpoint to reconciliation? 00:51:54.720 --> 00:52:00.880 That is a really interesting question because it's one that I've asked myself too. 00:52:00.880 --> 00:52:05.519 You know, I often hear billions have been spent. 00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:09.760 We have to think about, you know, that's let's look at the past 10 years. 00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:12.000 Roughly, let's throw a number out there. 00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:32.240 $10 billion spent in 10 years to correct hundreds of years of underfunding, hundreds of years where resource was never allocated, hundreds of years of standing up a system and health services and education services and economic development in a place where very often there was none. 00:52:32.240 --> 00:52:49.120 So when you further add on the layer of what residential school has done, what kind of harms were perpetuated by the 60s scoop, and all of these policies, and you mix them up in a great big bowl, that bowl is quite large. 00:52:49.120 --> 00:52:58.720 And I don't think, you know, the question is how much has to be spent on reconciliation. 00:52:58.720 --> 00:53:07.840 I think there is a component of responsibility that we have because government policy and legislation requires us to drive these things. 00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:19.040 Some of it is, you know, investing and ensuring that we're building a system that is going to create space to heal from the trauma that was perpetuated by government. 00:53:19.040 --> 00:53:26.880 But I think that there's a human component of reconciliation that is not uh something that can be costed out. 00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:31.680 And reconciliation is about relationship to me, ultimately at the end of the day. 00:53:31.680 --> 00:53:36.800 The reconciliation approaches of the former government was their own. 00:53:36.800 --> 00:53:42.480 The reconciliation approaches of this government are going to be shaped by the space that we're in. 00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:48.080 The reconciliation response by the next government will be in that time. 00:53:48.080 --> 00:53:52.400 And I think that is the conversation that people have to ask themselves. 00:53:52.400 --> 00:53:59.680 Instead of focusing on X number of dollars of investment into this space, what about the human component? 00:53:59.680 --> 00:54:10.080 What are you doing as an individual, as a person, as a leader to ensure that you're working towards the reconciliatory nature of relationship? 00:54:10.080 --> 00:54:12.960 And I think that's something that I don't hear a lot about. 00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:21.760 For me as a minister, that reconciliation component in looking at relationship actually resides in institutional reconciliation. 00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:34.240 What kind of changes can I make within this institute to be a better partner, a better service provider, somebody that's going to empower and help lift up the people that I serve? 00:54:34.240 --> 00:54:41.920 That means I have to do a lot of change within the institute itself, helping people understand that that's part of the process. 00:54:41.920 --> 00:54:49.760 Reconciliation, it's been it's taken hundreds of years to perpetuate the harms that have existed in this country. 00:54:49.760 --> 00:54:54.720 Is it going to take hundreds of years for reconciliation to heal from them? 00:54:54.720 --> 00:54:55.760 I hope not. 00:54:55.760 --> 00:54:59.600 But we are the drivers and determiners of what that time frame looks like. 00:54:59.600 --> 00:55:02.080 I think that we could do better. 00:55:03.040 --> 00:55:05.440 Thank you so much for being willing to share your time. 00:55:05.440 -->

00:55:07.040 I know how busy you are. 00:55:07.040 --> 00:55:24.400 And I just I do appreciate you answering some, I hope, tougher questions, but I also just appreciate the sincerity you brought to a lot of your answers because I do find that the political temperature has increased where it feels like at times both sides have a slogan and they yell it at each other and we're just talking past each other. 00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:28.160 And I don't think many of us are part of either of those two groups. 00:55:28.160 --> 00:55:52.160 We're just trying to find a way for, like for me, to make sure my members rise out of poverty, that the living conditions in their homes are better, to make sure that homes are now built to their building code of the province rather than being built below those standards, to make sure that kids have the opportunity to reach whatever goal they dream of, and that we don't have a s a segment of society that are put behind the eight ball, so they can't rise up. 00:55:52.160 --> 00:55:55.280 And I really hope that that's the end result of reconciliation. 00:55:55.280 --> 00:56:09.519 My hope is that we do see over the next 20 years that Indigenous people are not at the belower the lower rates of education rates, employment rates, addiction rates, uh, and that we see them rise up so that we're not talking about them as being the most vulnerable anymore. 00:56:09.519 --> 00:56:11.200 We're talking about them as being the most successful. 00:56:11.200 --> 00:56:27.120 And when you talk about children graduating more, and we see 10% and hopefully 10% the next year, so we're on a trajectory out of a lot of these circumstances, and so that we can see our people rise up to the position that you're in today, where we're leaders and we're setting the example. 00:56:27.120 --> 00:56:29.519 And I think you're inspiring a lot of people. 00:56:29.519 --> 00:56:37.840 It's not an easy file to carry, particularly with First Nations having to hear their concerns and I'm sure know their concerns from the seat they're sitting in. 00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:47.040 Uh, so great respect to you, Minister, for being willing to take on this very difficult work, a file that's very controversial right now, uh, and trying to find the pathway forward. 00:56:47.040 --> 00:56:51.519 So I really appreciate your time uh and you answering all of my questions. 00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:52.560 Thank you. 00:56:52.560 --> 00:56:54.480 I really appreciate being on the show. 00:56:54.480 --> 00:57:03.360 Happy to have this conversation, happy to come back to answer any questions on the work that we do here and happy to learn about your leadership and support you as well. 00:57:03.680 --> 00:57:04.240 Beautiful. 00:57:04.240 --> 00:57:06.000 How can people follow your work? 00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:13.280 Uh, you could follow me on our Facebook page, Mandy Golmasty is the professional political one. 00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:18.560 Uh, on my social media, Mandying Around, if you want a glimpse into my personal life. 00:57:18.560 --> 00:57:24.240 I'm maxed out on my Facebook friends, uh, but I do, you know, hope that you will follow me. 00:57:24.240 --> 00:57:28.960 I'm on all platforms, Facebook, Instagram, I'm even on Snapchat. 00:57:28.960 --> 00:57:31.120 Uh, I really love to hear from youth. 00:57:31.120 --> 00:57:39.280 So if you want to ask me questions or show me what it looks like in your world and community, uh, I'm interested to learn about people. 00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:50.160 A lot of the exchanges that I have on there uh have helped me understand in my decision making the impact directly on people that are going to live with the policy decisions that I make. 00:57:50.160 --> 00:57:52.000 So really appreciate that. 00:57:52.320 --> 00:57:53.040 Beautiful. 00:57:53.200 --> 00:57:54.400 Thank you again. 00:57:55.120 --> 00:58:03.440 Thank you, my goodness.