Full Transcript for “I Identify as Blind” disability pride, music and unmasking with Lachi

the response I kept getting was like, "Oh, well, there's nobody with a disability in the music industry, so why would we make these measures?" And so I have made it my life's goal through RAMPD, which by the way, the best thing we ever accomplished was our acronym, not us working with the Grammys to get sign language on the red carpet, not us getting these partnerships with title, Live Nation, Spotify. I mean, we've done so much, not just for artists, but also for professionals. And we've started to realize something really interesting with the work we've done with RAMPD. We are getting people joining our membership who are director level folks, who are label owners, who are like the big wigs that write the checks, and they're like, "I'm neurodivergent. I'm actually hard of hearing. I have a TBI." And so when I originally set out, they said, "We don't do disability inclusion because nobody's disabled." That was three years ago. Now I'm like, not only are there neurodivergent and disabled music professionals out here, but we all are. So really to conclude, it's just that everyone is navigating trying to make it out in this world, but everyone's masking. Everyone feels that they have to change some part of themselves to be as close as they can to what success looks like, be as close as they can to what "beauty" looks like, what winning looks like. But really all it is internalized ableism. And I say, as soon as we drop that internalized ableism and we really start to sit in who we truly are and we start to recognize our perceived flaws as flexes, that's when we truly start to win. And so that's what we're finding out with RAMPD, that people are like, "You know what? I'm tired of navigating this difficult industry with the added layer of having to mask." And so that's why I do what I do. Michelle Bishop: Yes. And honestly, as ridiculous as it sounds that they say to you, "Oh, there aren't any people with disabilities." When I tell you, we see that in everything that we do. I do voting work at NDRN and we'll have elections officials tell us, "This polling place isn't accessible, but there aren't any people with disabilities that vote here." And it's like, "What? You realize we're everywhere and we do all sorts of things." Maybe the reason they think there's no people with disabilities here is because they're stuck outside and they can't get in because you didn't make it accessible, just a thought. But I mean, it sounds like coming up against all that is really, correct me if I'm wrong, helped you to develop that identity and that disability pride in the industry. When did you first say, "I identify as blind." and what did that mean for you? Lachi: Well, so when I first came into really doing the disability thing, really leaning in, I wanted to find out more influencers or thought leaders and such with disabilities. I didn't really know that many people. This is pre COVID, 2018, 2019, that kind of thing. And so I came across an influencer, her name

is Molly Burke, and we're great friends now, but I didn't know her back then. I had just seen her tagline and it had said, "I'm Molly Burke and I'm a YouTuber who happens to be blind." And for some reason I was like, "I don't know if I love the happens to be blind thing." I was like, "Well, I'm proud of being blind. Blindness is part of my identity. I don't just happen to be a woman. I don't just happen to be a Nigerian. I don't just happen to be all of the things I am." And so I would go to... I was touring... We're always touring and every time I tour and do a show, I do a comedic open where I just introduce myself, I do a quick self-description, et cetera. And in my self-description, I would say, and I don't just happen to be blind. My blindness is part of my identity, has given me all of the opportunities I have, and it's really made me a deeper blah, blah, blah. It was just too long. So I had punched it up to be, "My name is Lachi like Versace. She, her, I'm a Black woman with cornrows and I identify as blind." And the interesting thing about that is people took onto it. They were like, "Oh, that's cool, nice and punchy." But whenever I would say it in front of a large crowd or like I've said it on interviews or during commercials, I would get this weird, I don't know, pushback of like, you can't identify as blind. Blindness is an identity. It's a medical condition. Or they'll be like, "Do you read braille or not?" Or they'll be like, "We don't want people to think trans blindness is a thing where you just have a blind identity." And then you can be like, "Well, I'm blind today, so that's my identity." And I thought that was really fun. I was like, "Look, everybody's upset. They're talking about blindness though." So I really leaned all the way into it. And I have to say, I am super proud of my disability identity. Was it music that brought me there? I think in a sense and in a way, like today I have a few songs, you guys are music lovers, I have a few songs out that really talk about my disability pride. I think that a lot of the times as we navigate the world, masking our disability, masking our chronic condition, our difference or whatever, we end up overcompensating. We end up building up this really, really thick problem solving muscle or this really, really thick how to get around things muscle and we overcompensate. When we're finally accommodated, when we finally get to a place where we're accommodated or we have the tools we need, we're coming in like bulk as hell. We're coming in with problem solving muscles. We're coming in with all of these things that we had to build up because of navigating the world differently, because of every day working through this very difficult maze that is living a life unaccommodated, then when we finally are accommodated, then we are killing it and crushing it. And how could you not be proud of that? How can that not give you a sense of pride? So the songs that I would love for you guys to check out

that are mine is I have a song called Life on Hard, which has gone viral several times on Instagram. I'm known as an Instagram rapper, which is like, what? Hello, I do disability advocacy. Look at that stuff. But anyway, so I have a song called Life on Hard, which is essentially about just winning the game of life, playing it on the hardest setting out here while people are still trying to consult the manual. I have another song called Professional, which is oftentimes when I walk on the stage, people see the cane and they're like, "Aw, she's going to do a song for us. Is this from Make a Wish Foundation?" And then I bust out these raps or I hop on the piano and I go ape on this piano and then they're like, "Oh, snap. What? Okay." And I'm like, "Bro, I'm a professional artist. I'm not object for pity to make you feel good because you felt weird on a Monday and you didn't feel like getting up for work, but it's like, she could do it. So can I." I'm like, "No, I can do it. You most likely probably just can't." So that's what that song's about. And then there's The Bag, and The Bag is just essentially like, I've been told no so much like, "No, you can't. No, you're not good enough. No, we don't want you." And I'm like, "You know what? Yes, I am good enough and I deserve everything. So I'm going to throw everything I deserve in the bag, which is everything." I don't know. I would not be the person I am if I didn't love all parts of myself. And that includes my disabilities, that includes my neurodivergences and all of the other wacky, weird body jazz that I bring with me everywhere I go. Michelle Bishop: Lachi, can we maybe, do you and I just FaceTime each other every morning and hype each other up? Stephanie Flynt McEben: I was literally about to say the same thing. I would like in on a true call. Michelle Bishop: I don't know if you know. Actually, I want to say quickly, I know some of those songs actually from social media, but they're real. They're so real. So people haven't heard music, go check it out. I don't know if you know one of our co-hosts, Stephanie is blind. You're speaking directly to her soul right now. Stephanie Flynt McEben: I literally just texted them in our podcast group text and I was like, she's totally speaking to my soul RN, but of course I don't want to interrupt anything. Michelle Bishop: No, I know you're dying to talk to her about the book, Stephanie, and take it away. Stephanie Flynt McEben: Yeah, no, absolutely, for sure. And as somebody who is blind and who also identifies as a blind person and definitely does not identify with the medical model of disability, clearly gotten to more of a social model. But yeah, in terms of going through that journey of accepting all of who you are and everything about yourself, for me, I mean, it took a minute, especially when you're talking about your experiences as a child and I totally feel that. I was that girl playing the harmonica on the jungle gym by herself. Anyway, this

is about you. This is not about me, but I'm just saying that I totally relate to you on a spiritual level. And given that, I would love to know, were there any particular moments when it came to writing the book that were particularly hard or healing? Because I mean, I think that we all know that it's not always a linear journey. Some days are going to be harder than others. And so would love to get your perspective on that. And I think that our listeners would be interested. Lachi: Yeah, absolutely. The journey for me has been one of constantly unwrapping this amazing gift. I always try to use that as the visual, if you will, of you have this big present and you get to unwrap it and then you just keep getting something cooler inside and then you get to unwrap that and you get something cooler inside and you just keep unwrapping this beautiful gift that is yourself. But you don't realize that when you first get the box, the amazing stuff that's going on inside, and it takes time to get to it. So a lot of times growing up, I would kick myself in the butt of, I wish I had come to this when I was so much younger. I wish there were people out there when I was younger, role models that I could look up to when I was eight years old and pointing on the TV and saying like, "Okay, well, I mean, I understand that Ray Charles existed, but that's not going to..." Stephanie Flynt McEben: Stevie Wonder is here, Ray Charles is here, but we need more of us. Hello. Lachi: We need more of us. Hello. Exactly. And so this time and place where I am right now is where I needed to be for this to work. So I can't really kick myself in the butt of like, "I wish I had this. I wish I knew this so much earlier. I would've been so much further." That kind of thing. You have to be where you got to be where you need to be. Even right now, this conversation we're having right now is going to have been necessary for the next thing that is happening in our lives. And just the other day, I was hanging out with Queen Herby, who's been one of my favorite more modern rappers. I just did a thing with Apl.de.ap. I have done some stuff with Black Caviar. Folks that I've looked up to, I'm having the opportunity to Snoop Dogg. I'm having the opportunity to work with these days because of the fact that I am here at the right time now. So when I was writing my book, we were peeling back all the layers. I'm a generally very positive and energetic, social butterfly type of person today. But it's interesting, I wasn't always this person and I had to unpack all the layers to get there. One of the biggest things that happens to me, so I've always been low vision. So I was born with relatively low vision and it stayed the same throughout my teens and early 20s. But one day I woke up and my sight was just gone. Boom. So the interesting thing is anybody listening would be like, "Oh my God, if I woke up and my sight was gone, I would just die or I would not know what to do. My life would be over." Stephanie Flynt McEben: Yep. Heard that a million times. Yes. Lachi: But for me, it was weird because I was already low vision, so I was going from level one to the underwater level or whatever. So it wasn't like that life changing of a thing. I was already using screen readers or Zoom text. I was already doing stuff of that nature. So I wake up blind and I'm just like, "Okay, I guess this is it. This is the day that they told me was coming." What had ended up happening was my corneas had erupted. And so I went to the doctor and he was like, "You're going to become completely blind. You're going to go from this much worse vision than you've had to complete blindness over the course of time." So here you go, here's a coupon. Bye." or whatever. So I'm like, all right. So I had decided at that moment that I wanted to start a bucket list. So I was like, okay, what are all the things I've always wanted to do before completely going completely blind? So I was like, let me go skydiving, let me go spolunking, let me go meet with people, meet with celebrities and just do all of the things I've always wanted to do before I lose my vision. So I went out and I did it. This is still me doing it. This is still me doing it. And so I say that because to people who say if I ever went blind, I would just die. Well, when I went blind, it made me want to live. And that's what opened me up into being this person that I am today. Stephanie Flynt McEben: That is amazing. I genuinely love that. Lachi: We talk about charity model and propping disabled folks up as tools of pity. We talk about medical model, which is really just waiting around for cure, making the cure the hero. We talk about social model, which is a really good place to live in the sense of things are impairing if they're not accessible. Society is impairing if it's not inclusive. But honestly, if I have all of the things, like if I have all my tools, if I have all that I need and if folks are inclusive, then I'm still blind, but I'm not impaired. But I like to go a little step further into what is the cultural model. And so the cultural model is it's not just a discussion of what society should and shouldn't do. It's actually a celebration of what you gain as a person who identifies with their disability or their neurodivergence, the things they need to overcompensate because they're navigating the world a little differently, leaning into that. So let's say for instance, deaf culture, sign language, and the fact that folks can have complete discussions outside of what we're talking about, there is so much deaf pride out in these streets, that is a celebration of culture that comes out of disability. And for me, let's say for instance, I have ADHD and it powers my one million and counting ideas. I have diagnosed OCD, which helps me carry out all those one million and counting ideas. I have diagnosed general anxiety disorder, which gives me my empathy and my excitement. And then I am blind,

which when I have the tools I need, it gives me drive. It keeps me determined, it keeps me focused, and it gives me my dope ass glam canes. There was a girl and her mom, and she came up to me after a show and she was like, "Oh my God, your music was great." I was like, thank you. She's like, "Mommy, can I get one of those canes?" And then her mom was like, "Ugh, well, you have to be blind." And I'm like, "Yeah, girl, you better want to be me." Stephanie Flynt McEben: Yeah. We drive sticks. Anyway, sorry. Lachi: Yes. You know what? I speak softly and I carry a big old stick. Thank you. Stephanie Flynt McEben: Yes. Amen to that. Exactly. As somebody who considers themself a lifelong disability advocate, I never really thought about it in the sense of going beyond the social into the cultural. So thank you so, so much. We all learn something new every single day on this podcast, but I'd love to know a little bit more about, obviously you were very, very, very good at talking through these experiences in such a way that they are very relatable and easy to understand and that thing. So I'd love to pick your brain about the intended audience of your book. Who did you write it for? Other blind folks? Did you write it for, was it written for multiple audiences? Lachi: Yeah, honestly, I wrote it for the person who is masking. I wrote it for anyone who is tired of... Listen, let me put it like this. Let's face it, disability is boring, a lot of the time it's sad and it's compliancy. We have to go the extra mile to make it fun because the actual truth of it is that the only reason it's boring, sad, and compliancy is because society has kept it that way through its collective internalized ableism. And so my book is actually a humor book. It's a pop culture book. It's a comedy book. In fact, when we were talking to the publisher, it's like, we should be putting this up against other comedic books, not necessarily disability books because it's a book. I got so many jokes. I have dad jokes, they're corny jokes, I have rap bars. I rap in a lot of the book just because I was like, "Hey, this rhymes." I'm going to say it like a rap. We're doing the audiobook right now, so I actually get to wrap it, which is really fun. Stephanie Flynt McEben: Oh, that is so cool. Oh my gosh. Lachi: Which is really, really fun. But really, honestly, what the book is what everything I do is it is using joy, soul, pop culture, jokes, humor, fashion, and just a really good time to celebrate disability, as well as community. So what you'll find in this book is my story through my story, through historical deep dives, through interviews with some really, really cool popular figures and a really big deep dose of disability joy. And so a lot of folks who have disabilities, they will read this book and they'll be energized. It'll be like, "This is really great. I'm glad that I finally get to read a book that talks about disability in a positive way." For blind specific folks, they might relate to a few of my stories because I talk about the day I woke up blind, I talk about when I went skydiving blind, I talk about just some of my interesting blind moments. But then I also talk about how I would go to red carpets and not know how to talk to anybody. So I'm in this amazing room with all these celebrities I can't see and I'm just sitting on the wall. So I talk about some of the hard times too as well. But at the end of the day, really what the book is is an invitation in for somebody who feels a little different, a little awkward, has to mask, and just needed that invite in to talk about disability in a fun, joyful, celebratory way, to recognize that yes, that thing in you that's different, that thing in you that society has told you you should view as a weakness and hide, you should be proud of. And I say this to people all the time. I say it in the industry, I say it to all my friends, I say it to anyone who will listen. I say it to my local barista and they come back and they say things like, "Oh my God, I'm so glad you said it that way. It turns out I have a titanium hip and I've never told anybody about that." And that's the vibe. The vibe is someone who was like, "I really needed this to be said to me this way, and now I am able to step all the way into my disability identity." Alden Blevins: I love, especially what you said about joy. I feel like for me as an autistic person, my experience in the arts is that it is really a space where people who maybe don't belong in other spaces or don't feel like they belong in other spaces or are made to feel like they don't belong in other spaces. I think that a lot of them really do find a safe space in music, in the arts, in theater. And I just wanted to ask, why do you think the music space is such a special one for you and why do you think it's a place where other people with disabilities seem to flock together as well? Lachi: I mean, you hit the nail on the head. Counterculture, I mean, music often rewards counterculture. And then it eventually becomes mainstream and then we got to rebel against that. So music is a place where your soul can speak. And I think a lot of the times with disabilities, especially autism for me, I'm ADHD, OCD, a different neurodivergence situation, but a lot of the issue is communication. We don't know how to say exactly what we need or whoever we're talking to just doesn't know how to hear what we're saying. And so I think that what music does is it allows a soul to speak to a soul. A lot of the times music does this thing where you'll be listening to a song and you'll just be like, "That, that right there. That's what I it me. That's the thing I'm feeling." type deal. Music has the ability to do that. And so for me, right now, this children's album that I'm working on, the kids' album, which is an album that is essentially R&B, pop, electronic, sort of the genres that I dance in for kids centered on disability and neurodivergence. Because what

I want to do is be able to say, "Hey, I want you to point at that and say, that's me." And I think the easiest and quickest way to point at something and say, "That's me also." has been music. And so it's why it's been my strongest medium. Again, it's not my only medium. I'm talking to folks through the book, I'm talking to folks through fashion, et cetera, et cetera. But again, music has been just the quickest, easiest point A to point B conversation easer, if you will, about disability. Another thing I also love to use is humor and comedy. So I make jokes all the time. They're all bad. They're all very not good jokes. I need to probably get a joke writer, but the fact that I'm having such a good time telling the jokes, I think I think is all that really matters. So I think both music and humor are just really, really great spaces for two people to get to relate to something that may be difficult to talk about. Stephanie Flynt McEben: Yo, if you need a joke writer, I'm your girl. I actually do a joke every single episode of this podcast. Michelle Bishop: Her jokes are not better than yours, Lachi. Don't hire her. Stephanie Flynt McEben: My jokes are pretty bad. They're worse than dad's jokes. They're like granddad jokes. Alden Blevins: Yeah. Stephanie is the queen of the jokes on our podcast. She always brings one through. Didn't know that you were working on a children's music album, and I think that's really interesting. I actually used to be a teacher, so children's music is something that's near and dear to my heart. So I just wanted to ask, what would you want to tell to younger people with disabilities, younger disabled creatives about claiming space and being able to tell their own stories? Lachi: Well, one thing that I heard from someone else, I don't remember who it was. I think it was- Michelle Bishop: Jordan? Lachi: Yes, Jordan. He's the one that said this. Michelle Bishop: I love him. Lachi: Yeah, he's so funny. I met him at a... What did I meet him at? The Webby Awards or something. But anyway, no one can ever defeat someone who hasn't given up. And for some reason that hit me, and I don't even think he was trying to say it that deep. He was just saying a joke or something. But I took that and it was like, no one can ever defeat someone who hasn't given up. So at the end of the day, you are really the only one who can end whatever you're trying to get. Because as long as you are still going for it, it is still still there. It's like a Schrodinger's cat. It's like as long as you're still running for it, that opportunity is still there for you to have. The opportunity is never lost as long as you're still going for it. And people can tell you, people can take your shoulders and tell you to go right. People can take your shoulders and tell you to go left. But until you take your own shoulders and go in the direction that your heart, your soul, your passion, your fire, desires, that is when you truly begin to live. And so I say

personally, lean into that. I hear from a lot of younger, especially creators with disabilities. I mentor a lot of folks, tons and tons of folks. It's one of the things I love to do the most. But what I love to tell folks is you are going to be the best you. And that you is going to include all of the different parts of who you are, but it is especially going to include you leaning in to the things that make you different and unique as unique selling points. Earlier I talked about how people try so hard to be the "definition of beauty", definition of success, definition of whatever. Everyone's trying to be this reference man. Everyone's trying to be as close as they can to the reference man. And if I'm as close as I can to the reference man, then I'll be successful or then I'll get this job or then I'll get this gig. But the truth of the matter is when we look at all of the people that are doing all of the big things, they're "eccentric". They're "weird". They did some big different idea that no one was thinking about and everybody fell into their trend. The further away you are from the reference man, that is when you start to win. That is when you'll start to see success. That is when you'll start to feel much better about yourself. That is when you can wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and say, "I am fine." When you are able to accept all of those different freckles of yourself that are as far away from the reference man as possible, because guess what? There is room outside of the barrel for everyone to win if they are all being their unique self and running their unique purpose. That's what I would tell to young disabled creators. Michelle Bishop: That's amazing. Almost feel like we should stop there, but I have so many follow-up questions. Lachi: Listen, I'm here to drop as many mics as they will let me keep breaking. Michelle Bishop: I was wondering how you see the conversation around disability and inclusion and evolving these days. And a lot of our listeners are people with disabilities or people who have other even multiple intersecting identities in which they experience barriers as well. What does allyship look like to you? Lachi: This is one of my favorite questions. So yes, we have folks with disabilities and we have folks who want to work with people with disabilities, want to help a friend with a disability, want to make sure they don't say the wrong thing to a person with a disability, neurodivergence, chronic condition, mental health condition. That's not an ally. Wanting to help a person with a disability is not an ally. To me, wanting to support someone with a disability, that's an ally in the very basic definition of allyship. Here's what I think an ally is. To answer the question, I got to do two things. One, talk about the disability umbrella. So the disability umbrella encompasses so many forms of disability. It is neurodivergence, which is ADHD, dyslexia, OCD. It is mental health conditions like anxiety, depression, bipolar. It is someone who learns a little differently. It is someone who has explosive situations like anger management. It is someone who has substance abuse disorder, maybe somebody who drinks too much or uses different substances. It is chronic back pain. You know what I'm saying? It is asthma. It is EDS. It's POTS. It is long COVID. It is different complications that you gain after pregnancy. It is different complications that you gain as you age. It is different complications you gain through menopause. It is temporary. It is breaking your arm and wearing a cast. It is seasonal depression. There is nobody on this earth that is not within the disability umbrella. And I don't mean that you're going to grow into it. I don't mean in the future. I mean right now. Whether you identify as a person with a disability or not, you have disability identity because you have experience in your body disability. And when you figure that out, then you're an ally. Allyship is seeing yourself through the other person because you can't look through someone else's eyes unless you can see yourself in them. And you can't see yourself in disability until you recognize the disability identity within yourself. All of a sudden, and I say this and people are like, "What? I say this, but I've seen this. I've seen it happen. I've seen people who did not associate themselves with any form of disability or anything and they're just like, Oh, them. Oh, I'll help them. We have a conversation and then we have a follow-up conversation and then we're drinking and then all of a sudden they're telling me all their disabilities and then they're walking a little different when they encounter disability. It's no longer a them thing. And so that's what an ally is. People with disabilities are also allies. I am an ally to the deaf community because I recognize though I'm not deaf, I see the having to navigate the world differently in you of myself. So that's how I define an ally. An ally is someone who understands their own disability identity and can see it in others. Michelle Bishop: Don't mind me over here just taking notes. Stephanie Flynt McEben: Literally. Oh my gosh. Lachi, thank you so, so, so much for being with us and taking time. I know that your website, lachimusic.com is one of the places where folks can stay up to date on all of the latest and greatest things that you're up to. Is there anything else in particular you would like to plug for our listeners? Lachi: Like you said, LACHI, L-A-C-H-I M-U-S-I-C. I'm on the internets everywhere. Instagram, Spotify, check out the old music. If you're a creator, a music creator or professional with a disability, check us out at RAMPD, R-A-M-P-D.org. Or if you want to donate or if you want to partner with us over at RAMPD, please do. If you are a cane user, whether you're a blind cane user or you use Mobility Cane, check out glamcanes.com, get your canes bejeweled. I Identify as Blind, our book is out on Penguin Random House, imprint called Tiny Reparations by Phoebe Robinson, who is also a comedian. So we're out here all writing very funny books. So please check it out. And lastly, listen, try to find moments in your day of disability joy. And when you find that moment, take a picture of it or write it down so that you can go back to it and live for those moments. So thank you guys so much for having me on this podcast. It's really been a blast getting to talk at you about all things I identify as blind. Alden Blevins: I love it. I was over here taking notes too because I just found so much of myself in what you were saying and so many things were poignant and empowering. I, as an autistic person, try to be an ally to other parts of the disability community myself. And that's something where I'm always trying to put myself in the shoes of another person and what they might experience. So I think that's really powerful. We were so grateful to be able to connect and learn more about you, Lachi. Lachi: Yes, yes, yes. So honored to be here, guys. Michelle Bishop: Before you head out, Lachi, do you want to hear one of Stephanie's grandpa jokes? Lachi: I was going to say, I was like, "Let's hear one of these granddad jokes." Let me see. Stephanie Flynt McEben: Okay. This might be- Michelle Bishop: Okay, do it. Stephanie Flynt McEben: ... a granddad joke. Okay. Where do spiders like to get their information? Lachi: The web? Michelle Bishop: That would be something to do with web. Stephanie Flynt McEben: But what kind of web? Lachi: Wow. Really? You are fired from being my comedy writer. You are fired to be my comedy writer. I was rooting for you too. I was like, let's just... Please. Stephanie Flynt McEben: I wouldn't even get to the punchline yet. Michelle Bishop: Worldwide web? Stephanie Flynt McEben: It is the worldwide web. Michelle Bishop: Oh. Stephanie Flynt McEben: It's fine. It's fine. My wife warned me not to tell that joke this month and I didn't lose it. Michelle Bishop: Oh my gosh. I'm so glad you stuck around for that part. Lachi: As I live and breathe. Thank you guys so, so much. This has been so much fun and I will see who else I can tell that joke to. And go ahead and just to help you out, Stephanie, I'll go ahead and embarrass myself by telling that joke to others. Stephanie Flynt McEben: Not my best work, but that is allyship. Yes. Michelle Bishop: Oh my gosh, Lachi, thank you so much. And everyone, please lachimusic.com. Check it out. Listen to the music, read the book. Alden Blevins: Speaking of the worldwide web, this has been National Disability Radio. We celebrate stories, leadership, and talent of people with disabilities. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, share, and continue the conversation with us on that worldwide web at ndrn.org or anywhere you get your favorite podcasts. Thanks for listening and until next time. Lachi: Bye.