Full Transcript for Episode 005 JIM VITALE: From Eight-Tracks To Roofers And Riffs

Um, among the bluesiest things I've ever heard them do. 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:05.599 But uh there's a spirit to it, you know. 00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:10.159 It's it's kind of a downer, but they're they're they're they're really honking with it. 00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:16.879 They are, you know, it's like, well, I can't quite get together with this this love interest, but I'm kind of happy to shout about it. 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:21.280 Yeah, you know, and kind of work, you know, it's well kind of like a blues, you work it out, right? 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:21.840 That's right. 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:36.719 But to me, it's it's like it's it's a feel, it's an economy, it's not, you know, typical two, four feel, you know, and um there's just so much in there that that that builds an atmosphere, and there's not much to it, but it all works. 00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:42.159 And funny because it's like uh in doing a little research, um This is allowed, right? 00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:43.039 This is allowed. 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:44.159 This is not a shill. 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:45.520 This is actually refreshment. 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:47.599 No, we'll do a little quick sip. 00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:48.400 Salute. 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:50.560 Salute, compadre. 00:02:51.039 --> 00:03:01.280 Um so uh what I read was it was mainly a John Lennon tune, and he kind of sat down with uh Paul, and Paul uh did a little something. 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:11.039 McCartney McCartney did a little something, although Paul McCartney said that uh it was a three-hour session for the entire song that they worked on. 00:03:11.199 --> 00:03:19.680 Um but the thing that Paul McCartney came up with, uh, which to me is one of the signature things in the song, is how to play the drums in that part. 00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:25.360 Yeah, that you know, that whole it's like it changes. 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:34.080 I mean, that's that's like such a definitive part of that song that it's like identifiable, you know, and then it goes to more of a 2-4 in the bridge. 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:36.400 And then it yeah, you're right. 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:42.319 Yeah, Paul, it's it is a bit melodic, the way it moves around the kit, you know, tone to tone. 00:03:42.639 --> 00:03:44.879 And that's that's all Paul does. 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:50.000 I'm sure if you if you call him, he'll end up to the phone melodically somehow. 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:52.240 Different every time, you know, creative. 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:55.840 Yeah, John is good for the she's leaving me. 00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:57.520 And yeah. 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:04.800 Well, he you know, he had more of a gut bucket thing to him overall, but his his melodic sense wasn't half bad. 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:05.680 Oh no, no, no. 00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:08.159 If I fell comes to mind just so you know. 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:15.680 Moving along side A, um listen to her heart, Tom Petty. 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:16.720 Oh wow. 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:27.040 You know, uh growing up as I did in Ohio, you know, Tom Petty or just about anywhere, Tom Petty's everywhere, right? 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:28.639 It's like the air, right? 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:34.079 And you don't consider it so much because it's there, it feels great. 00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:42.879 But as I got into playing an instrument, which is guitar, and then later got into writing songs and trying to do all that. 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:50.319 Again, it's the economy and the turner phrase that he uses in there throughout. 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:53.199 Um, and the band is just cooking. 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:56.959 Mike Campbell, you know, one of my all-time favorites. 00:04:57.199 --> 00:05:05.199 And uh again, it's it's so solid, you know, listen to her heart and keep coming back to this idea. 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:12.399 It doesn't matter what's going on, doesn't matter what you're trying to do and take me out of orbit with this love interest, it's gonna work out. 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:12.800 Right. 00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:15.600 And it's just it's a it's a stomp. 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:16.800 It is, it is. 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:22.160 I mean, it's uh it's funny because it's um and it's just his second album, you know. 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:24.639 And uh oh yeah, you're right, second album. 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:25.519 It's yeah, yeah. 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:36.079 And and uh and he was such a had a such a strong sense of who he was already as an artist, as as as we know now the entire career, and we can feel it out. 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:46.959 But at the same time, it's like such a to me, it's it's like uh the the birds thing is so like just for for in the foreground. 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:52.639 And like it just like so so uh it's it sounds like you know, like whiskey dipped birds. 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:56.480 Yeah, um, southern fried birds, yeah, yeah, you know. 00:05:56.720 --> 00:05:59.360 Um yeah, they were so big into that. 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:05.040 And I uh I mean I've had my phases where I keep revisiting birds and different eras of the birds, yeah. 00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:12.079 So the classic original lineup, you know, with and without um oh, Gene Clark. 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:23.439 Okay, right, and also uh with and without um Clarence, you know, on tele and all that, you know, every everything. 00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:25.600 Just there's there's a particular thing about it. 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:30.319 But yeah, that it's sort of super energized the way they do it. 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:39.120 And I can't say enough about the band, the way they did it, and Mike Campbell is always you know, my touchstone, my go-to. 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:40.879 Like, okay, what would Mike do? 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:52.639 Because his tone, his feel, the part, it's it's it's a rather simple part, but there's little nuances in it, and you can you can never imagine a different part than whatever he

plays on the records. 00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:53.759 No, no, no, no. 00:06:54.000 --> 00:07:01.759 You know, and I think they were a big fan of that in particular, is like getting a song and sort of transforming it into a record. 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:06.079 Like anybody can make a recording, but not everybody's gonna make a record. 00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:17.360 Yeah, they always they worked hard at uh at adding the the guitar hooks, like the sort of the look the the the melodic hooks in there that were kind of not necessarily uh so it seems. 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:24.800 Yeah, well actually, you know, the they they s they sold this sort of like bar band kind of vibe, right? 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:28.560 But but underneath, like it was always like this other stuff. 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:38.879 And I've I've come to find um that in the history of that band, you know, particularly with Tom, you know, there were a lot of songs under the bridge before they cut that first record. 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:39.600 You know, he was right. 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:40.399 I can imagine. 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:40.959 I can imagine. 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:41.680 Always writing. 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:45.120 You know, whenever they say it takes 10 years to to write your first album. 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:48.560 No, you tell us that's what's been going on. 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:50.319 And also Mike Campbell. 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:59.759 Yeah, you know, the things that he wrote, arranged, presented, shaped, um, you know, and everybody in that band. 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:01.040 Yeah, no. 00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:02.160 Tension. 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:03.439 You know, you know. 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:05.439 Um, I have one more thing to ask about this. 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:05.839 Oh, yeah. 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:16.879 I got it wasn't until it was really weird because it was just um wildflowers. 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:17.600 Oh, yeah. 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:27.839 And it was just like and it was just a song like it that hit me when I was uh I was uh at the time I was married and I was leaving. 00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:39.519 She was from Wisconsin, and we had a fight, and I was driving back from Wisconsin through like snowstorms through to Connecticut, and my car, I couldn't see. 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:45.840 It was just like there was no visibility, and I just had the radio, and I had to pull over way to the side of the road because I was afraid of getting hit. 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:53.840 It was like three o'clock in the morning, and I remember the DJ saying, This is the new the newest single from you know Tom Petty. 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:57.120 Uh it was just uh It's good to be King. 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:06.639 And it just like I was so depressed and so it was such a dark, and I was just like this storm, and that song just like completely blew my mind. 00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:16.080 And the next day I just went to a record store and got the record, and I'm like, okay, and then I went back, you know, whatever, you know, because it's full moon fever and all like all this stuff like that. 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:35.200 There were big kind of uh it was always good with a hook and a song and and uh I even like that record that that wasn't that popular, the one that was like uh with you're jamming me that was like the in-between uh southern accents and um, I can see I can see the cover now. 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:36.879 But it's a fun that's a fun record. 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:42.399 I wanted to ask you in particular, maybe and maybe we can touch on the Ticket to Ride uh as well. 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:46.879 Do you remember when you first heard like listen to your heart? 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:51.840 Or or or or even your first encounter with Tom Petty and what you thought? 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:52.320 Sorry. 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:53.039 Like in your life. 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:53.919 That's what it was. 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:54.320 I got it. 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:54.559 Okay. 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:57.200 If you want to no, no, you're good, you're good, you're good. 00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:00.559 Oh, the first time hearing that. 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:03.519 I mean, I was the Beatles thing, I was very young. 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:06.320 I mean, barely walking. 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:09.440 Uh I have siblings that are quite a bit older than me. 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:11.279 They were then, they are now. 00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:14.879 And that song title, by the way. 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:16.080 Yeah. 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:16.720 Right? 00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:18.480 Write it, get it down. 00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:22.399 Um those records were in the house. 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:26.480 And and I you know, the playlists on the on the stations. 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:28.960 Yeah, you know, you're driving about, wherever. 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:37.759 But those are the things, fortunately, that I gravitated toward, because there were a lot of it, you know, um, those songs, that kind of music in the house. 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:46.080 You know, we had some jazz, but we had a lot of you know, blues, RB, a lot of Beatles, things like that, you know. 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:48.240 Um, even my parents were into it. 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:53.440 Um, but uh Ticket to Ride, I don't remember the first time. 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:58.879 Um though I would say probably right around junior high school. 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:06.080 Um, or maybe it was high school, I can't remember, but all of a sudden one day it meant something more. 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:11.360 Like, but there's something interesting in particular about the way this song does what it does. 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:16.399 You know, I didn't play anything then, I didn't start playing until I got into college. 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:19.440 Um in earnest, as they say. 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:25.519 But um uh listen to her heart, uh, that, all those

songs. 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:32.480 It's just the the thing that really blew my mind one time was that I looked at it uh on a label. 00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:37.679 You know, it's got the who wrote it and BMI or Ask Cap, whatever. 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:40.159 And it's only three minutes long. 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:45.360 Yeah, even with that, you know, they're jamming out to the end the outro to the hits at the yeah on the outro. 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:47.039 It's three minutes. 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:50.240 Like you gotta get up and say your thing like that. 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:51.360 And I thought, really? 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:55.039 It's like three minutes long, and then you go back and you look at the Beatles sides. 00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:55.759 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:11:56.080 --> 00:12:00.320 Um, you know, ticket to ride's probably right around there. 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:04.159 Most of the early stuff was Yeah, 230, 20, yeah. 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:05.039 Sub-3. 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:09.039 Yeah, you know, you know, they were just they just did it. 00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:12.960 Yeah, it's like here's here's the idea, here's the idea over and over again. 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:21.600 The weird thing about their songs to me, especially the I think more the earlier songs, like through somewhere in '65. 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:25.440 Okay, there's this, I don't know, there's a cadence to it. 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:32.879 I don't quite know quite how to describe it, but it's sort of it's so catchy, it's like Christmas carols. 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:35.759 Like you can't get out of the way of a Christmas carol. 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:37.200 Right. 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:46.480 And when you listen to the hook on I Wanna Hold Your Hand, you know, that summation, which is all they're playing are ice cream changes. 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:47.200 That's right. 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:48.799 On that, you know, going around. 00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:54.000 So they're sort of supercharging this thing that came before them the way that they would do it. 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:57.440 And you're just like, what is going on here? 00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:04.159 You know, and it it's hard, it's it's hard to put into words, you know, how it works and what it is. 00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:05.919 It's amazing. 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:08.320 But um, I don't remember the first times. 00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:10.720 Um, they're just all time. 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:12.320 All time, all time. 00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:18.960 Um, number three on side A is uh Crosby Stills, the Mash and Young on the Way Home. 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:20.080 Oh man. 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:21.600 It's a four-way street. 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:29.360 You know, um talking about making this list, and sometimes it's like leaving you know, children off of the lifeboat. 00:13:29.600 --> 00:13:32.240 But this song for me, okay. 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:38.159 I'm back in Ohio in the house that I grew up in, full finished basement, that kind of scene. 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:39.039 Yeah, yeah. 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:40.879 And with panel walls. 00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:41.840 Oh yeah. 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:48.480 Real yeah, no shag, but there were there was there were rugs throughout. 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:50.240 You know, tastefully done, I must say. 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:51.279 Tastefully done. 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:55.360 Um uh oh yeah, on the way home. 00:13:55.519 --> 00:14:01.039 So my father uh was a jeweler and a watchmaker, coins, you know, all of that. 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:05.919 And um he would travel quite a bit, go to flea markets, set up. 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:14.159 So as a kid, I'd be darting about, looking at you know, all these different whatever, you know, every every row was every table was something new. 00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:16.639 Oh, like Joe, Kung Fu Grip. 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:17.919 Yeah, right. 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:21.360 Yeah, big time, big time stuff. 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:30.320 And you know, you'd find things, and I saw that there was this thing of uh I came, there are eight tracks. 00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:31.600 Oh my god, right? 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:38.000 And there it was, Crosby Stills, Nash and Young, Four Way Street, and I thought, well, okay, I know. 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:42.480 Bought it, I think, for a buck fifty, right? 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:55.200 And then somehow found one of those uh old stereo receivers that was like the built-in A-track, yeah, radio cassette, A-track, you know, with the turntable. 00:14:55.360 --> 00:15:01.919 Okay, so now I can get this thing operational, and you'd put it in and it would bounce from channel to channel, the four channels. 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:02.399 Yeah, yeah. 00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:09.440 So I'd be in that basement listening to this on these uh, I don't know what kind of speakers they were, but uh they're actually pretty good. 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:12.799 It wasn't like Radio Shack, and I'm not bumming out on Radio Shack. 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:15.360 Yeah, they might, you know what? 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:20.320 Actually, no, funny enough, they were Sirwins, Sirwin Vega. 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:25.519 But um actually, those weren't mine. 00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:26.480 It's a long story. 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:28.080 But so I'm listening to this. 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:31.360 This is this is what this is the stuff that I want to get to. 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:46.320 Yeah, well, it's like you know, you've got to find these things and fashion them together so that you can hear this, you know, media that you bought, this A-track, that was, you know, partially, you know, the the label had some water damage to it, so it added to the allure. 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:47.279 Yeah, right. 00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:50.480 But you put it in, you know, I'd put it in and you'd be in the basement. 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:52.879 It's definitely not water, by the way.

00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:53.519 Oh. 00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:56.639 Wow. 00:15:56.799 --> 00:15:57.519 Can we cut that? 00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:58.799 Can we edit that up? 00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:00.480 I don't know. 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:02.639 We're gonna keep it PG here. 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:18.080 But um, you know, I'd be in the basement as, you know, a kid 12, 13, 14 years old, you know, and you, you know, you try to catch up on sleep, put in the eight-track, it's going, and I'd just fall asleep. 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:23.200 Yeah, you know, in the basement, everything's darkened, you know, it's the nice, it's your cave. 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:29.440 And you'd wake up, there'd be another universe, this other channel that had clicked on while you're conked out. 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:32.720 And over and over, and this would just wash over me. 00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:40.960 You know, one of those uh albums, that and the radio, everything, you know, that I could get my hands on, because that was just that was the thing for me, sound. 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:45.120 Anyway, that song is really the one out of all of them. 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:53.519 You know, there's something about it, it's it's really it's like you can really feel them together, um, which the whole album is. 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:54.879 I mean, they sound great, you know. 00:16:55.120 --> 00:17:05.039 Yeah, I mean, it's remarkable how how uh patchwork that album is and how their sound is the only thing that isn't. 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:10.160 They just like sound perfect together sometimes. 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:14.480 All these songs and all these bits, and it's like they're just you know older songs. 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:16.640 I think that was like a Buffalo Springfield song. 00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:18.240 Like he I think probably Neils. 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:19.440 Yeah, yeah, Neil Neils. 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:22.160 It was Neil Young's song, but when he was in Buffalo Springfield. 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:23.359 Oh, yeah, yeah, that era. 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:36.319 So it's just like another, you know, everyone had these different songs, and at the time they were so everything was contentious between them, and they were like basically on the I think they broke up before the album came out, actually, even. 00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:42.720 Yeah, that was it was quite combustible that combination for various reasons. 00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:48.160 But the their their uh their sync, they're like sort of unison thing. 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:53.039 That's like they just locked in beyond all three prongs into the wall. 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:55.119 And so much of that album is live. 00:17:55.359 --> 00:17:55.519 Yeah. 00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:59.359 It's like, you know, so like it's just Chicago's on there, Black Queen. 00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:00.559 I love Chicago. 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:03.519 Yeah, I mean Graham sounds great. 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:05.680 Those other guys were holding him back. 00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:14.319 He does, but that there's there's a there's like a sweet melancholy to that song. 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:21.279 Yeah, you know, and it always it's a very uh it it I always think about that in the autumn. 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:27.279 Yeah, right, which is a favorite time of year for me anyway, but to me that's got very much of an autumn thing. 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:29.759 Um, yeah, that's that song. 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:30.799 Just I love it. 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:31.599 That's awesome. 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:35.200 And it always takes me back to that that that time and place. 00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:36.880 That A-track. 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:42.000 Yeah, as as they say, the formative years where where the damage is accruing. 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:48.720 Side A continues, and we have song number four, which is the wait by the band. 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:49.440 Ooh. 00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:50.319 Yeah. 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:51.039 Yeah. 00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:58.799 When I first heard that, it um, you know, growing up, you you know, college radio, right? 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:00.319 And you'd hear things. 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:06.559 I mean, I was quite young, eight, nine years old, we're talking, and you'd hear something on the radio. 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:11.359 And at first I didn't know what the music was, but I liked it a lot. 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:11.599 Yeah. 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:11.920 Yeah. 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:20.079 And I started to notice it sounded a little bit like these rock and roll things that I would listen to, like Led Zeppelin, and you know, whatever. 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:21.920 And it turned out to be blues. 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:25.440 So there was some station, I can't recall the station. 00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:27.039 Where what what's what city is this? 00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:27.599 We'll talk about it. 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:30.480 Uh I'm growing up in I grew up in Canton, Ohio. 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:31.359 Canton. 00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:32.160 Canton. 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:34.000 I don't look Cantonese to you. 00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:35.519 You had to ask. 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:37.839 Anyway. 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:40.880 Um like Southern Cantonese. 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:42.160 That's right. 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:44.799 Kind of, you know, off a beaten path. 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:45.839 Yeah, other side of the track. 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:47.279 That side attracts. 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:49.119 Right. 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:51.279 Um, the weight. 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:54.240 So I start, you know, and you know, certainly you hear different things. 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:56.000 You hear country music, you know. 00:19:56.160 --> 00:20:01.759 The funny thing is about that station, it was college radio, so it wasn't dedicated to that format. 00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:02.240 Oh, yeah. 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:07.359 Some days you turn it on and think, okay, I'm

what's this news thing that they've got going on? 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:08.559 Which where's the music? 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:08.799 Yeah. 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:09.519 The other stations. 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:11.279 And then you realize as you come along. 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:16.000 But anyway, you hear that, stopped everything, stops you in your tracks. 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:24.240 And it's all together, it's all these things that that I knew and was finding out about, you know, discovering. 00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:31.519 And it was all right there, but I didn't know how like you you could feel it, but you couldn't really point to it. 00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:31.920 Yeah. 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:42.720 In the song, you know, there's this sort of call and response that's happening, and then you know, different people singing different verses, but the voices come together. 00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:50.240 It's sort of like uh people praying in unison, you know, together. 00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:58.480 But yet you hear all these strains of this this different music, just just you know, little bits of it, you know, traces of it really. 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:01.279 Oh, you try to identify it and it's gone. 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:05.519 It's something you you see something else in the fabric, some other thread to it. 00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:06.960 But smells something else. 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:08.400 Yeah, it's really something. 00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:27.119 And you know, if you write it out on paper, you don't necessarily know it's it's not you miss it a lot, especially because it's that song, since it's such a you know, uh hand-like where it repeats the parts over and over and over, and they're not necessarily complicated. 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:27.440 Yeah. 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:36.400 But then you get somebody who's like the Leonhelm, Lemon Helm, who's like such a you know, not the easiest drummer to follow, to like be. 00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:36.880 Yeah. 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:39.599 Well, as he said, he's more of a folk drummer. 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:40.160 Yeah, yeah. 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:43.359 But he's like folk, like New Orleans folk. 00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:44.640 Oh, yeah. 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:48.000 You know, his his syncopation, his independence. 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:48.319 Yeah. 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:49.920 That he would play with and sing. 00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:52.079 And sing, and sing, yeah. 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:55.119 Really keeping that top line going, man. 00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:59.839 But and then they had weird ways to come together and harmonize, like the top line. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:05.680 Top wouldn't be the top in the chorus, the top, you know, the highest chorus sort of switch. 00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:08.960 Weave the way that they just came to do it, you know. 00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:12.240 But it was it doesn't sound like really anything else. 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:14.079 And it's no, it's crazy, man. 00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:17.200 Each time you hear it, for me, it's a moment. 00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:20.880 Like, okay, for this amount of time, this is what I'm doing. 00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:22.960 I'm gonna listen to that song. 00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:29.440 I just I remember um having heard that song quite a bit on on like classic rock radio, whatever. 00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:49.599 And being uh in high school um at the time where like the Grateful Dead was having this sort of resurgence in the late 80s, and they were like touring again heavily, and all like a lot of my friends were into the dead, and I didn't quite get it at the time, and still maybe a little bit, but uh I do I do get it now. 00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:59.359 But um I remember we were just hanging out, you know, kids after school, whatever, people having fun, drinking, blah, blah, blah, goofing on, goofing around. 00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:04.720 And they were playing Grateful Dead songs, and the weight came on in the tape, like in a mix. 00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:07.359 And I was just like, who that was it? 00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:08.400 Like, what's this? 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:08.720 Yeah. 00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:10.319 Like, oh, it's the band. 00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:14.559 I'm like, you know, then the whole like uh who's on first routine. 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:15.920 Oh, yeah, what band? 00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:16.880 The band. 00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:19.359 The power of the hoodoo. 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:20.240 Yeah. 00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:21.920 The voodoo that you do. 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:22.480 Yeah. 00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:27.519 Um, and uh that was uh, you know, uh I went head first. 00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:30.000 I'm like, okay, I need to find out everything about this spin. 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:31.680 Oh man, yeah. 00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:33.279 It's it's that. 00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:47.759 Um and it seems, you know, it's it's like the jumping off point because who knows what other kind of freaky thing they got into, you know, just stuff from the fringes of wherever. 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:48.319 Yeah. 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:53.119 But it's stuff that they knew and experienced and they recombined it the way they did it. 00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:54.240 So it's magic. 00:23:54.640 --> 00:24:02.400 I mean, I think that they're not that dissimilar to the Beatles in the sense that they did their time as a band. 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:03.519 You know what I mean? 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:06.799 Like the all the stuff with uh off the boards, man. 00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:17.359 Just everything right there every night, you gotta line it up and somebody wants to start a fight or mess with you somehow, or you know, whatever. 00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:22.559 But you're you can't do it that much and that intensely unless it's you. 00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:22.960 Yeah. 00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:23.279 Right? 00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:25.279 It's it's beyond meaning something to you. 00:24:25.359 -->

00:24:29.039 Of course it does, but it's just you're gonna do it no matter what. 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:44.720 Have you ever had a situation where you were in a group or in a band where there was a sort of that syncopation of of having that only comes from playing repeatedly over and over like a a certain period of time. 00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:45.599 Yeah. 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:49.680 Um there was a band that I played with in Columbus. 00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:54.880 It was more of a roots rock band, blues, you know, I should say roots music. 00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:55.359 Yeah. 00:24:55.599 --> 00:25:10.319 Um, blues, a lot of jump blues and swing, you know, so that sort of boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, dum, boom, boom, boom, that and playing off of that and thinking about horn lines instead of how a guitar player would play, right? 00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:19.519 Um, those those sort of you know, the stabs and the things that come and go and those arrangements, but you know, affected by a guitar primarily. 00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:25.519 Um, so learning that uh that band, uh Big Dave Schindler. 00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:26.640 Shout out to Big Dave. 00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:31.200 Big Dave Schindler, who was the guy that started that band and playing the doghouse. 00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:33.440 At Beef's Egg Charlie's in Canton, Ohio. 00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:34.400 Yeah, oh psh. 00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:35.680 Yeah. 00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:38.319 Where would it be uh in Canton now? 00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:38.960 I don't even know. 00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:41.039 So everything's changed, right? 00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:44.160 Um but he he put it together. 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:50.000 He was the singer and the doghouse guy and does both amazingly well. 00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:53.200 He was always the guy to try to catch, you know. 00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:56.640 He I think he was always the best at his chair in that band. 00:25:56.799 --> 00:25:57.440 But we had a great time. 00:25:57.519 --> 00:26:02.880 I mean, we played paladins, we played, you know, Hollywood fat stuff. 00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:08.319 Um, but uh at a at a point, it just had its own inertia. 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:08.559 Yeah. 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:10.480 And we knew what everybody was doing. 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:14.240 We were all developing, you know, um, as one does. 00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:27.440 But I think for me, more formative and getting into that bag fully, you know, what it is to just groove and not fill and not blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, bowl of noodles, table three. 00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:34.079 Sometimes sometimes, yeah, sometimes just playing the uh the melody is enough. 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:34.640 Yeah. 00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:35.359 You know. 00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:37.440 Melody's always. 00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:53.279 But yeah, there and there, there have been different combinations that uh I've played with, you know, maybe one or two shows or um, you know, limited number of shows or just one-offs where the combination of people worked, and then you're like, where'd that go? 00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:56.799 Everybody's scattered to the four winds doing their thing. 00:26:57.200 --> 00:26:58.640 But it's great when it happens. 00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:08.000 Yeah, you know, and I and I've been lucky, like I think I hope many people are so many great musicians that I play with, including you. 00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:18.799 I love what you do, and you know, uh gonna go out on a limb here and tell you people he does a lot for this community of freaks and musicians here. 00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:20.079 He really does. 00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:23.839 And and elsewhere, I see it's like, okay, now you he's back in New Jersey. 00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:26.640 Now he's it's like witness relocation with music. 00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:34.400 But seriously, um, I see a lot of people like everybody here in town. 00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:39.200 Yeah, you know, here in Nashville, all kinds of towns like that with so much talent in them. 00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:42.480 And um I'm absolutely floored by it. 00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:50.880 And it doesn't necessarily have to be somebody who's stellar, it's just somebody who's solid and really likes what they do and that sort of transmits. 00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:51.200 Yeah. 00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:56.319 I, you know, it could be somebody playing the most basic cowboy chord on a guitar. 00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:56.799 Sure. 00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:57.839 I mean, you just said it before. 00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:02.079 You know, sometimes you just have to play the melody and that translates to people as well, man. 00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:06.960 Sometimes it's like you just have to play certain colors of your soul, you don't have to play them all. 00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:11.279 I mean, come on, how many, you know, how much furniture can you put in any room? 00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:12.480 Look around. 00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:13.279 Seriously. 00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:15.119 Oh, that's enough. 00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:17.680 But these are you know, well-curated pieces. 00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:18.160 Yeah. 00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:19.759 And I like that for this. 00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:23.920 When people talk about booking bands, I just have to get this one off my chest. 00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:25.920 It's like, yeah, I'm a curator. 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:27.599 Like, what are you making hands? 00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:30.160 You're booking a you're booking a band. 00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:31.359 You're booking a night. 00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:32.640 That's that's that's what I'm saying. 00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:33.200 What is this? 00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:33.920 The Louvre? 00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:34.559 Yeah, yeah. 00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:36.000 Yeah. 00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:40.799 You're curating, you know, like we're gonna have a showing by Jackson Pollack. 00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:41.680 I don't know. 00:28:42.079 -->

00:28:43.359 This is the barf inn. 00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:43.839 Come on, man. 00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:44.880 Like, here it is. 00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:46.160 Here's your spot. 00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:51.839 Get up and play, have fun, get out of the way, let somebody else do the same thing. 00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:53.359 Curating. 00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:55.440 No, I'm a rock and roll crossing guard. 00:28:55.519 --> 00:28:56.079 That's what I call it. 00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:56.480 Ooh. 00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:56.799 Yeah. 00:28:57.279 --> 00:28:59.519 I'm just basically let's keep it moving. 00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:01.920 Let's let's move people, let's let's play over here. 00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:03.119 Let's make some more noise over here. 00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:03.839 Let's, you know what I mean? 00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:05.119 You're like the guy at the airport. 00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:05.759 Yeah. 00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:09.200 Wrong runway. 00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:16.240 With all of this, uh, you know, the core for me is not just necessarily talking about the music. 00:29:16.319 --> 00:29:23.440 It's really about like how where it found you, like how it changed you. 00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:26.000 You know, because it's like we we love music. 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:26.720 You know what I mean? 00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:33.759 And we can talk forever about the things that are so magical about songs and you know, artists, but to me it's like, wait a minute. 00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:37.279 Like you said, that story about uh Ron McEwen. 00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:38.480 You know what I mean? 00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:46.240 So, yeah, you know, you took this one trip once and you stumbled on this one record, and that's that's And then lost the record. 00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:47.279 And then lost the record. 00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:56.880 But now forever you have that the whole the you know, you have the the readings in your mind because you remember that one time you listened to it. 00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:08.319 Kim, my wife, she got me uh a book of Rod McEwan poetry for my for my birthday that she and we just like it's one of those like half jokey, half real. 00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:10.880 Yeah, and immediate oh no, it's real. 00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:12.400 It's real, it's real for us. 00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:19.200 But I immediately, you know, having some wine and whatever, did a reading from the voice. 00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:22.000 Oh yeah, intoning Rod. 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:26.400 So I'm reading this and it's just a cold read, right? 00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:30.640 And there were points where it was like he he wrote that? 00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:36.079 Oh man, that's let's just say that some of these lines are invasive. 00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:38.240 I'm gonna leave it at that. 00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:41.200 But it's Rod, Rod McEwen, and if you dig it, you dig it. 00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:42.480 Yeah, yeah. 00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:46.319 Yeah, finding the music and it finding you, I think that's a great way to put it. 00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:52.319 Yeah, it's like you know, where where the meeting happened, where where where the actual like uh I can't get away from it. 00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:56.160 Yeah, let's talk about song number five on side A. 00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:59.599 Uh Lucinda Williams Ooh, I lost it. 00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:00.079 Wow. 00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:09.839 Uh you know, when I first heard that song, it first of all, I think it's one of the best vocals of hers that she's ever captured. 00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:16.480 Um, and by that I mean it's just she's connected to something, something's really special on that one. 00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:23.279 But in the end, it's just this root-down jam, sort of like a Neil Young thing. 00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:30.240 Um, but again, like Neil Young, it seems really straightforward, but there's really cool nuance to it. 00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:41.519 And when you look at the meter and what she's saying in the song, how she's, you know, those turns of phrase, man, it's it's so good. 00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:43.039 And you can listen to it every time. 00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:51.599 And the band, you know, the band that take to me sounds like it was just in a bar, you know, before they opened the doors. 00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:58.079 And it's the band that's played there for the last five five months, Thursday through Saturday, every week. 00:31:58.240 --> 00:32:11.440 You know, and one guy's got like the mustard stain on his shirt, and you know, she's the cigarette must like, you know, it was a cigarette at some points, just hang and and it's yeah, you know, I think I lost it. 00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:12.960 Let me know if you're gonna call. 00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:19.599 You know, so casual, but it's just such a such a cool, like just kicking out the jams. 00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:24.960 You know, and it's this thing about you know, my interpretation of it. 00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:27.759 I think, you know, I mean, sometimes I write songs out. 00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:29.599 Do you remember what year this album came out? 00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:30.960 Ooh, good call. 00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:31.839 Don't know. 00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:38.720 Uh, but you know, it's that that that point where you're thinking, all right, I'm I'm into this person. 00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:39.359 Yeah. 00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:43.759 I'd like to know you know, give me give me something to work with here. 00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:46.960 Am I in, you know, if this is gonna happen, it's not gonna happen. 00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:55.680 But it's a way to do it, you know, it's the story that's been told more times than you can count in a song and whatever else movies. 00:32:55.920 --> 00:33:03.839 But the way, you know, it's it's her point of view, her her turn of phrase, and you know, just the feeling of it. 00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:04.880 It's it's great. 00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:09.920 Was this the first song of hers that

you ever thought like you kind of made you pay attention to her? 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:11.039 Or no. 00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:13.119 Uh what is it, World Without Tears. 00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:13.680 Okay. 00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:13.920 Yeah. 00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:14.799 That one. 00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:22.880 That one has more of um, I think that gets more back to those bits of what makes the band the band. 00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:23.599 Yeah. 00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:38.160 Um that's a little more uh churchy, a little more gospel-y, you know, and it's and it's it's it's beautiful, just ever so slightly rough hewn, right? 00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:44.559 But it everything, you know, and of course the band that she's playing with is great. 00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:49.759 It's funny because it's it's uh so sympathetic in into what she's doing, how she does it. 00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:56.079 Knowing you and knowing um your album, uh Love and Fate. 00:33:56.400 --> 00:34:05.680 Um this song of hers is the one that I would it was not a surprise for me that you picked up. 00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:06.000 Oh, really? 00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:06.880 Okay. 00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:18.079 Because of the sort of, like you said, the the feel of the music, the sort of the the sort of uh almost laid back, but not completely loose, not completely like falling apart necessarily. 00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:23.039 You know, just yeah, it's like uh like they're kind of on the edge of the tracks. 00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:26.639 But uh like when you set an amp, you want it just fixing to explode. 00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:29.519 Yeah, you want to hear the buzz, you want to hear the little buns, yeah. 00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:33.119 You gotta hear it, you gotta hear the yeah, the the filament get weird. 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:35.199 You want to hear the heat. 00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:43.440 Um but uh the sort of the the the the you said the turn of the phrase, the whole chorus reminds me of several of your songs. 00:34:43.679 --> 00:35:00.800 Like where that's like, you know, where that's like um this idea, like I lost it, and and uh like what what she lost is kind of like sort of like this part of herself, and and it's not necessarily like, you know, but she talks about it like she left a hat behind or something. 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:03.039 And and it seemed yeah. 00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:12.400 No, it's not it's not literal, it's more like I'm sort of hoping that I'm losing it, but I'm gaining a little more like hey, you over there. 00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:14.719 It's very usual. 00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:18.000 But uh it's it's it it's part of that magic. 00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:22.079 So we flip the tape to side B. 00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:25.280 And uh we begin. 00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:27.920 And there's that thing where you have to sort of rewind it. 00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:34.960 Make sure you start at the beginning because it's never exactly uh let's just pretend that we were talking while the tape

was playing and it ended. 00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:39.679 We just naturally have to flip it over, unless it was uh one of those auto-reverse. 00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:43.440 Uh but side B begins with California Stars. 00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:44.159 Oh man. 00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:44.320 Yeah. 00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:46.159 Wilco Billy Bragg. 00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:47.599 Hey, who put that on that list? 00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:48.719 That's a good one. 00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:52.320 Uh California Stars. 00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:53.519 Oh, actually, you know what? 00:35:53.599 --> 00:36:08.159 Before we go, before we go, I wanted to ask you a question because uh um in in trying to find more about the these songs, oh yeah, with I Lost It, I didn't know this, but she had recorded oh, is it Car Wheels on a Gravel Road? 00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:12.000 She had recorded the whole entire album before. 00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:16.079 Yeah, it was like the second version of the album that she recorded with a different producer. 00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:18.079 She had initially worked with Steve Earle. 00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:24.960 And Steve Earle said it was one of the most tedious, boring recording sessions he's ever done. 00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:29.199 And somehow and she felt it was too polished. 00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:30.960 She felt it was just like too clean. 00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:31.840 I see. 00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:37.920 And then she went with um Bruce Springsteen's keyboardist, Roy Brenton. 00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:39.679 Is that yeah, that sounds right. 00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:40.400 Yeah. 00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:42.079 Um I didn't know. 00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:45.440 And that gave it more of a band feel. 00:36:47.519 --> 00:37:00.320 But it's kind of crazy because I feel like that's something I want to touch you with you upon uh real quick, because as a songwriter, somebody you've you've you've uh you released an album a couple years ago and you're working on new material. 00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:11.440 Like how often do you find yourself recording a demo or even actually recording a song and going, that's not right yet, or that's not ready. 00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:17.599 And then like finding that it's like adding or recording with a different band or a different studio, different producer. 00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:18.480 Oh, right. 00:37:18.719 --> 00:37:20.800 You mean in in recording it or writing it? 00:37:21.039 --> 00:37:22.960 In recording, mainly in recording, recording. 00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:28.079 Well, you do like a demo, you feel like it's close enough, or two things on this record. 00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:32.000 Um, because of the budget and the lack thereof. 00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:32.719 Yes. 00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:34.800 And also time constraints. 00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:38.559 I was touring as a side man on a show. 00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:49.440 Um had to write in between, you know, being home, you know, downtime, and then coordinating everybody else who was on a bus of some sort, right? 00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:51.840 So that was madness. 00:37:52.000 --> 00:38:04.079 So we we went in, they had I was writing under a deadline, I had the dates set aside, and they got the acoustic only demos maybe seven or eight days before. 00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:04.960 Recording. 00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:05.440 Yeah. 00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:09.199 And they did their homework, of course, and they showed up maybe honestly. 00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:15.119 If I'm being honest, it could have been great without them having the they could have walked in cold. 00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:15.760 Oh, yeah, yeah. 00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:20.239 And it would have been great because that's they are those players, you know. 00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:29.840 Um, but of course, you know, I was a side man on that tour that I was doing on that show, but that's being on the clock. 00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:31.679 When you're the artist, you're on the hook. 00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:34.639 So of course your your monkey mind is saying, okay, is this gonna be right? 00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:35.840 This has to be this. 00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:37.519 How is this gonna sound? 00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:40.239 I didn't have the the convenience of that. 00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:57.760 We had in two the first two days, we did four songs, I think it was, and then we did two, and then everybody later that week, like uh Dave Sutton, speaking of Lucinda, he was off again on tour with her playing bass. 00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:05.679 And um Jeff Young was uh gonna go back out with Jackson Brown, you know, things like that. 00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:13.440 But we knew because they they wanted to do the record and they were doing it on totally sweetheart rate. 00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:17.840 You know, they they they knew what I was trying to do, and they're like, all right, man, we're in. 00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:19.599 We just want to do it and figure it out. 00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:21.840 But because we're doing that, can you make it a full album? 00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:22.960 So I'm like, all right, yeah, yeah. 00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:26.639 So we're gonna write the other songs the other four, and we had another date, like five. 00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:29.119 We can record several. 00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:33.840 I tried to make it a little, try to sweeten the pot, you know, for them. 00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:35.920 And I appreciated it certainly. 00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:41.840 But I had like five weeks to get another four songs done, going in and out of town, and I got it done. 00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:44.800 That sometimes you just need that little deadline. 00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:45.679 You're like, you know what? 00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:47.280 There is no not doing it. 00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:47.679 Yeah. 00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:50.320 Um, yeah, getting back to that. 00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:52.880 Is it ever done? 00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:53.360 No. 00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:56.159 Did I have the

convenience to try things over and over again? 00:39:56.320 --> 00:40:03.440 You know, and I was singing live takes, you know, because I wanted to bring that energy to the performance. 00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:15.440 Uh, my my feeling is always, you know, having played with a lot of people, played for a lot of people, and doing what I do also on my own, in my mind, it's pretty firm. 00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:21.679 The person who's calling everybody together, you're the hub, you have to have that excitement and that energy. 00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:29.280 Then they, you know, because that in effect tells you kind of where the ceiling's gonna be on the goodness, the goodness ceiling. 00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:35.360 So if you're, you know, kind of going at it like, well, I think this is right. 00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:37.199 The ceiling's gonna be relatively low. 00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:39.280 It gets and it gets shorter, keeps getting shorter. 00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:45.119 But if you're just out there taking cuts, going for the parking lot, yeah, they're gonna go right along with you, you know. 00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:47.760 And uh that's what they did. 00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:50.559 They were amazing. 00:40:50.719 --> 00:41:03.039 And there were points where you know, I was trying to catch up with them performance-wise, and the songs were brand new, so I didn't really know how to lean into them and little things like that, you know. 00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:06.880 And we made some audibles certainly right there as we were recording. 00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:11.760 And it was great because we would uh Shane Soloski, and you know Shane, yeah, yeah. 00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:15.679 He produced and engineered the record and did a dynamite job. 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:21.360 Um, there was a thing he talked about called, he called it the tearing up of an idea. 00:41:21.679 --> 00:41:28.159 So I would have like a main riff, uh, like on a song like America's Road, which is on the record. 00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:32.800 And it worked throughout as I had arranged it just on acoustic, right? 00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:36.079 You know, no, but I knew it was going to be electric, right? 00:41:36.639 --> 00:41:42.639 And at some point somebody said, That's a great, you know, it's a cool riff, but what if it started the song too? 00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:56.800 Which I would have I might have thought that's too much, but you know, or somebody would say, can we double this or we can cut that out and just go instead of this, you know, four bars of a suspension I'm trying to do, just go right to the the bridge. 00:41:56.960 --> 00:41:57.280 Yeah, yeah. 00:41:57.440 --> 00:41:57.679 It's good. 00:41:57.840 --> 00:41:58.400 And you know what? 00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:02.320 They were I would my my response was always, let's try it. 00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:02.719 Yeah. 00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:10.559 And the clock's running, you know, plus the the my battery's wearing down too, you know, because I'm trying to keep everything straight. 00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:11.760 So many hats on. 00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:14.480 And you know this is it. 00:42:14.559 --> 00:42:15.840 You've got to get it. 00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:16.239 Yeah, yeah. 00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:18.639 Whatever you're gonna come away with, that's what you're gonna put out. 00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:20.559 There's no there is no take two. 00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:28.719 Well, I mean, there were there were multiple takes of some songs, but it wasn't like we were gonna go back and reset up everything and get sound. 00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:30.000 No, that wasn't gonna be it. 00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:35.840 Or that we were gonna block out, you know, seven days or six days. 00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:36.639 That's not it. 00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:37.760 It's a fun weekend. 00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:40.239 I think I think they'd I think they'd get bored anyway. 00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:40.719 Yeah, yeah. 00:42:40.880 --> 00:42:42.079 They're too good, you know. 00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:44.400 So yeah, uh you always want that. 00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:51.039 But I think also for me, the idea is to have the song in as complete a form as possible. 00:42:51.280 --> 00:43:08.960 In fact, it should be complete, and then how you arrange it, like we'll say, okay, just that's good, just do the chorus twice here at this point, or that's one too many times to do this, blah blah, take that out, things like that, you know, or a little more tempo, a little slower tempo. 00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:13.119 Um, but I think I think you owe it to the people, you know. 00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:14.079 This is me. 00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:21.360 You want to have everything complete, and then they can bring the best of what they can do because they have the most clear picture, right? 00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:22.960 They will always add to it. 00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:26.719 You know, but I I also that's too much guesswork for me. 00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:28.320 Like, well, I've got this idea. 00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:29.840 Like, yeah, everybody's got ideas. 00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:31.039 We're gonna cut songs. 00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:34.079 You're gonna put out a you're gonna put out an album. 00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:35.920 We're not cutting ideas with songs. 00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:36.559 That's right. 00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:39.760 Let's grab the cowbell and away you go. 00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:42.159 But yeah, that's that's that's what I try to do. 00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:50.639 But as far as writing them, you know, I I'll set it down and walk around, you know, the table a little bit. 00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:57.840 I always have stuff spread out so I can see it and um you know, just move it around manually and start editing that way. 00:43:58.079 --> 00:43:59.599 A lot of pieces of paper. 00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:04.880 And uh sometimes I'm walking around the table, you know, like Monk would with the piano. 00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:06.400 I'm just sort of thinking

about it. 00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:11.039 Of course, I don't have that dashing hat that he would wear, but um, that kind of thing. 00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:14.960 And I don't think you should it's good to re-examine it. 00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:19.280 You know, the the the best case scenarios you come back to and go, that's solid. 00:44:19.360 --> 00:44:20.079 I can move on. 00:44:20.239 --> 00:44:20.559 Yeah, yeah. 00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:22.639 But there's always that extra little thing. 00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:30.000 I'm always trying to get it to where not that it's memorable, but it's memorable because it sings well in a particular way. 00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:32.320 I mean, I think that for me, that's like a big one. 00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:34.880 That's a big one because it's because you gotta be able to sing it. 00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:46.719 You have to like, you know, and when you sing it, and sometimes when you sing it in front of people, different things happen to you and you oh yeah, subconsciously reveal things about it that you didn't find before. 00:44:47.039 --> 00:45:02.239 Oh, if there's if there's any hole in it when you're when you're in front of people, it's like uh But that's where like the I feel like sometimes in a good way instinct might cover for you and show you something that you didn't think of before because you were thinking in writing format. 00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:02.960 Oh yeah. 00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:03.679 You know what I mean? 00:45:03.760 --> 00:45:11.760 Where your skill could will take over in real time, in real time, and you go like, oh, that actually sounds better than what I thought would go there. 00:45:12.320 --> 00:45:13.599 Well, you get that momentum, you know. 00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:17.360 There's this it's sort of uh I call it sphincter action. 00:45:17.599 --> 00:45:18.159 Ooh. 00:45:19.199 --> 00:45:22.559 Like this on stage, you're like, Oh, don't mess up, don't miss. 00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:30.079 Well, yeah, you don't want to be thinking about putting the right emphasis on the right syllable, right? 00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:33.280 You want it it's just you know, like syllables. 00:45:33.519 --> 00:45:37.280 Yeah, you want you want the song to feel to you like it's existed forever. 00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:37.840 Yeah, yeah. 00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:39.679 That's that's the trick, you know. 00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:42.880 And also do whatever you hope the song does. 00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:51.039 I mean, you write them, and sometimes you know what they are, and then sometimes you like I got a vague idea, but I like it. 00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:52.559 Yeah, do it. 00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:53.599 You know. 00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:58.000 So let's talk a little bit about side B, California stars. 00:45:58.159 --> 00:45:59.519 We uh Oh yeah, we're back to that. 00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:01.360 Talking about Wilko We segued. 00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:03.360 We segue, we segue, we guess. 00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:04.400 But we're setting this up. 00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:05.039 It's a great song. 00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:05.679 Yeah. 00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:09.360 Sometimes, sometimes you have to rewind the tape and go back a little bit and go back. 00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:10.000 What was that? 00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:11.039 You know, yeah. 00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:20.639 Um the turn of phrase, you know, like to lay my heavy head on a bed of California stars, you know. 00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:26.880 There's a sort of prosody to the melody, you know, of California stars. 00:46:27.280 --> 00:46:31.119 You know, the stars are up there, so it's kind of doing that. 00:46:31.199 --> 00:46:38.480 It's got that arc to it, and then um he tells you what he wants to do, and then he sort of tells you why. 00:46:38.719 --> 00:46:44.079 So in the arc of the melody, you know, and like the lower the da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. 00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:56.320 California stars, you know, he puts the tag on it, and I, you know, it's a it's a different sort sort of song form, you know, it's not a typical verse chorus, verse chorus. 00:46:56.480 --> 00:47:02.719 It sort of melds together, and you can't really tell where it seems like it's one chorus, really. 00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:06.400 That's over and over again, which is a pretty good trick. 00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:06.960 Yeah, yeah. 00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:13.920 The only other song that comes to mind like that in a way is uh Maggie May. 00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:14.719 Yeah. 00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:16.079 There's no chorus. 00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:17.840 Yeah, you know, but there's the great man. 00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:20.719 The chorus is always the first line of the verse for me. 00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:25.039 It's like Maggie, like the hold of every time he comes around again in the beginning. 00:47:25.599 --> 00:47:28.320 Shout out to Rod, which was my first concert. 00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:29.039 Oh, wow. 00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:30.320 I was four years old. 00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:32.400 Remember the older siblings I mentioned? 00:47:32.559 --> 00:47:32.800 Yes. 00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:33.119 Yeah. 00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:44.320 My sister Anita took me to see Rod Stewart, and I remember the band and him, and I remember the glow sticks, and I remember all of these soccer balls being launched off the stage. 00:47:44.719 --> 00:47:46.880 So this is like late 70s, early 80s. 00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:47.360 Yeah. 00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:49.039 And well, he still does it. 00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:50.000 No, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:47:50.079 --> 00:47:51.519 But that's what I it kind of came to it. 00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:59.519 You know, and as a four-year-old, you're thinking, yeah, I'd like to I'd like to get a little bit of this in my life. 00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:02.159 You know, Captain Kangaroo, Rod Stewart. 00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:06.079 It's kind of a hard right turn, but you know. 00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:07.199 Yeah. 00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:08.800 But yeah,

California stars. 00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:10.320 Do you think I'm sexy? 00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:10.880 Yeah. 00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:14.239 I see the possibilities there. 00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:22.400 Um, but no, this song, and again, it's it's if there's a sleight of hand to what they're doing, in my opinion. 00:48:22.639 --> 00:48:26.400 Um it almost seems like it's not a song. 00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:30.079 And yet it's a great and unforgettable song to me. 00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:35.360 And uh because I don't want to tell people what to think or how to you know listen to music or anything like that. 00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:43.440 But uh, yeah, and it's it it feels it feels good. 00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:52.000 You know, I think most of the songs it's it's I I remember when the song came out, and this is this is the song, this is from for me, it's the standout song, and it's because of that. 00:48:52.079 --> 00:49:03.679 It's because it's so kind of the the easiest song on the record almost, and it's like an oddly uh um and even the slide part, you know, it's like, hey, can you just do like anything? 00:49:03.920 --> 00:49:04.079 Okay. 00:49:05.039 --> 00:49:05.760 We'll see. 00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:08.639 And then, oh, you know, look, we're done with the session. 00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:10.320 That's that's a keeper. 00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:11.199 Yeah, wrap it up. 00:49:11.360 --> 00:49:12.239 Like, oh, okay. 00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:18.480 You know, it's so cat again, they're just falling off that barstool, you know, as they're playing. 00:49:18.639 --> 00:49:34.000 And crazy about this is like this was um I think it was Woody Guthrie's daughter, right, that asked Billy Bragg to take some of his lyrics is like these are lyrics that were just kind of lying around and whatever. 00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:36.800 Like, could you make something with this and whatever? 00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:38.239 And it's that song. 00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:40.159 It took three the whole album. 00:49:40.639 --> 00:49:42.239 The whole album is good. 00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:43.039 I did not know. 00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:50.000 Yeah, Woody Guthrie uh songs, basically or or pieces or or you know, lyrics and fragments. 00:49:50.239 --> 00:50:00.639 Fragments, and that's you know, to for me the idea of that that they like saw a sheet, some lyrics printed, like written out, and then those guys came up. 00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:04.639 The actual the local guitarist came up with the music for this one. 00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:08.320 And and uh Oh, is that the fellow who's the late great? 00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:12.800 That that uh sorry that I can't recall his name. 00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:14.960 Yeah, we'll we'll post it. 00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:16.400 Um The Forever Great. 00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:19.840 But yeah, he died young, like at 45 or something like that, 40. 00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:20.559 Oh no. 00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:21.039 Yeah, yeah. 00:50:21.679 --> 00:50:23.360 Um, I can't remember his name either. 00:50:23.519 --> 00:50:34.159 But um I just I love that idea because also we were talking about these session guys who come in and add their flavor. 00:50:34.320 --> 00:51:01.280 And you've we were just joking about how last night you were just a you were a session guy at a side man at an event, and uh um have you ever been put in a situation where you're working with somebody who has something that's kind of like halfway there or an idea, and you come in and kind of uh push it in a certain direction. 00:51:01.519 --> 00:51:02.000 Mm-hmm. 00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:08.239 Yeah, there've there have been some times where I've shaped it a little bit by what I was doing. 00:51:08.559 --> 00:51:17.199 I don't know that there are really a whole lot of times where I told somebody specifically, hey, you know, you're missing the hook here. 00:51:17.360 --> 00:51:21.760 You've already got it, you just have to don't put that thing in there, you know. 00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:24.400 I I try not to do that. 00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:24.800 Yeah. 00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:32.480 Um, and I try to honor, you know, I whatever, whatever they're presenting, I take it at face value, like this is what they want to do. 00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:36.559 So I'm gonna try to find the best way I can do that within it. 00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:42.800 Um, and sometimes the uh the call is to say, I don't know if I really have a part there. 00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:43.199 Yeah. 00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:44.239 In fact, Mr. 00:51:44.480 --> 00:51:48.719 Jeff Young did that on one song that was gonna be on the record. 00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:57.679 Um, and uh he said, I I really this is a particular kind of rock and roll thing, but I really don't hear keyboards on it. 00:51:57.760 --> 00:51:58.559 And I said, Okay. 00:51:59.440 --> 00:52:02.800 You know, and as a matter of fact, that song did not make the record. 00:52:03.039 --> 00:52:04.079 It's in the can. 00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:05.840 It might come out in some way. 00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:06.400 Yeah, yeah. 00:52:06.639 --> 00:52:14.639 But I the other thing was it was a little too far, it was a little wide of the mark considering what the the other songs were. 00:52:14.719 --> 00:52:15.119 Yeah, yeah. 00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:17.199 You know, it didn't fit all together. 00:52:17.360 --> 00:52:17.760 Yeah. 00:52:18.079 --> 00:52:18.480 All right. 00:52:18.719 --> 00:52:19.519 Are we moving on? 00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:24.000 Moving on, side B, song number two, gold on the ceiling. 00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:24.559 Oh, yeah. 00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:25.360 Black keys. 00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:26.159 Black keys. 00:52:26.719 --> 00:52:31.920 I like I like how you jump in uh via different eras and decades. 00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:41.360 Well, you know, in in the Rolodex of uh inspirations, like we like we said, it could on a different day it could be different songs, right? 00:52:41.519 --> 00:52:52.079 But these songs for today and for now, um I

I just think they kick ass, you know, and what they do, and uh I think the writing, first of all, is really great. 00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:58.000 I think the way that they play together is unique and really great. 00:52:58.239 --> 00:53:02.239 Uh certainly you can see what the influences are, but they're making it their own. 00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:02.719 Yeah. 00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:03.119 Right? 00:53:03.199 --> 00:53:18.159 They're not trying to, you know, like some people they get into that trip with the blues, you know, and they're wearing pork pie hats or, you know, they want to wear like overalls and go like really, you know, like Mississippi or whatever, and they've never been out of the city. 00:53:19.039 --> 00:53:19.280 Right. 00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:20.719 You're from Philly. 00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:22.079 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:53:22.159 --> 00:53:23.039 And which is fine. 00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:28.320 You know, people have to do it the way they do it, but I like, I prefer, I like both. 00:53:28.480 --> 00:54:00.639 I like people who really know and cherish that kind of plane, and certainly I've I've given I've given it my best at times to really get into that bag and to learn, you know, like the voicings and um the different, I suppose, uh sort of subgenres of blues, you know, the different stripes of it, country blues, jump blues, uh probably, you know, somewhere between jump and those classic Chicago ensembles are my favorites. 00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:04.239 Because it's just sounds, it really does sound like a band. 00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:04.559 Yeah. 00:54:05.679 --> 00:54:07.280 And each band had its own way. 00:54:09.039 --> 00:54:09.440 Yeah. 00:54:10.320 --> 00:54:11.519 They had their own way. 00:54:11.679 --> 00:54:17.840 It sounds like there's rules in there of some sort, and they had their own way to make them up and satisfy them on the spot. 00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:18.159 Yeah. 00:54:18.400 --> 00:54:22.480 Depending on, you know, who who was the band leader, who was in the band. 00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:38.159 You know, um there's and I think these, I think the Black Keys have a lot of that into what they do, but the songwriting seems to be going forward, like gold on the ceiling, right? 00:54:38.239 --> 00:54:39.119 It's great hook. 00:54:39.280 --> 00:54:39.840 Yeah. 00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:44.960 I I couldn't think of any sort of blues lyric that's like that. 00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:45.360 Yes. 00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:46.159 You know what I mean? 00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:55.199 Now, maybe there's a form where you're repeating certain things, but you know, it's not like they're trying to talk about bull weevils and they couldn't even identify a bull weevil on a page. 00:54:55.519 --> 00:54:58.960 You know, and again, I'm not I'm not down on people like that. 00:54:59.119 --> 00:55:08.320 There's a there's a place to like you're like basically saying like the hardcore hip-hop and you've never left like Beverly Hills kind of thing. 00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:09.280 Yeah. 00:55:09.519 --> 00:55:09.920 Yeah. 00:55:10.159 --> 00:55:11.679 Well, yeah, yeah. 00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:12.239 Yeah. 00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:13.119 I think yeah. 00:55:13.599 --> 00:55:17.679 Like the the cold, hard streets of Bel Air. 00:55:18.079 --> 00:55:21.039 I like the idea that somebody's taking what has come before. 00:55:21.199 --> 00:55:21.679 Yeah. 00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:28.960 And they certainly pay attention enough to it to make it important to them and show you that it's important. 00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:30.320 But it's their own thing. 00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:41.119 I think too, um, I was a fan of theirs from the very beginning, um, thanks to college radio, because I heard something off there from one of their first DPs, and I was like, you know. 00:55:41.360 --> 00:55:44.239 But it was clearly when it was just them recording, it was just them too. 00:55:44.480 --> 00:55:51.920 And then they released Attack and Release, I think it was called, but it was produced by Danger Mouse. 00:55:52.800 --> 00:56:14.559 And Danger Mouse was the person who was just like, guys, let's like make the beats a little bit more straightforward and funky and add some bass and add some, and all of a sudden their songs, like you said, kind of had this the thing that they were kind of um heavily influenced by, all of a sudden became something more of now. 00:56:14.800 --> 00:56:15.039 Yeah. 00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:23.519 Um so altogether they were the idea mouse together, giving it the tearing up of the idea, like what they already were. 00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:24.000 Yeah. 00:56:24.159 --> 00:56:37.119 So it's like, you know, like they like uh looking at the credits the two main guys play what they play, like guitar and drums, and Danger Mouse played bass keys and some programming. 00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:41.039 And it's like that's like the that organ that's in that song. 00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:43.599 It's like everything. 00:56:43.840 --> 00:56:44.480 Everything. 00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:45.840 And and you know what? 00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:46.880 It's not overdone. 00:56:47.360 --> 00:56:47.840 No, no, no. 00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:55.840 I mean, that's but they're like really they're they're really smart about doing kind of like short to the point songs, you know. 00:56:56.159 --> 00:57:01.199 It's not easy to write a pop song, and it's not easy to write a good pop song. 00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:07.679 It's not easy to write to figure out what your voice is and then have something that you can present as such. 00:57:07.840 --> 00:57:08.000 Yeah. 00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:08.719 You know what I mean? 00:57:08.880 --> 00:57:17.199 But I mean, they've clearly, you know, knowing just a little bit about what their their deal was early on, and it's just the two of them. 00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:23.679 No, totally just in a vehicle, probably not even a van at some point, you know, early at the earliest stage. 00:57:24.000 -->

00:57:24.480 El Camino. 00:57:24.800 --> 00:57:35.519 And also they are from Akron, Ohio, which was oh, I don't know, depending on which part of Akron you're solidly 40, 45 minutes away from my front door. 00:57:36.159 --> 00:57:38.239 So shout out to them. 00:57:38.320 --> 00:57:39.360 Shout out to LeBron. 00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:41.119 Keeping it local, y'all. 00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:42.000 Keeping it local. 00:57:42.159 --> 00:57:42.400 Yeah. 00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:46.400 Uh, but anyway, um LeBron doesn't have an album out that I'm aware of. 00:57:47.519 --> 00:57:51.360 Anyway, uh, and I don't think these guys have a good jumper, but between them. 00:57:51.920 --> 00:57:52.880 The drummer's pretty tall. 00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:54.079 But they know their lanes. 00:57:54.239 --> 00:57:54.559 Yeah. 00:57:54.960 --> 00:57:55.360 Right? 00:57:55.519 --> 00:57:57.360 So everything works out. 00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:02.239 Um, number three, side B, staple singers. 00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:03.360 Oh man. 00:58:03.679 --> 00:58:04.480 This may be the last. 00:58:04.960 --> 00:58:07.039 This may be the last time, you know. 00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:12.320 Um, you know, getting back to like well, they call it Americana now. 00:58:12.559 --> 00:58:12.719 Yeah. 00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:13.920 I call it rock and roll. 00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:14.719 But roots. 00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:15.119 Yeah. 00:58:15.519 --> 00:58:20.000 Sort of, you know, just putting patches on the elbows of the same jacket, I think. 00:58:20.559 --> 00:58:28.559 But hearing that, you know, hearing those voices pulls a lot together for me as far as the things that I've heard and really been turned on by. 00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:38.880 When I was really young, I mean like three, four years old, there would be, I think it was reruns, um, Sunday mornings, you know, local affiliate. 00:58:39.440 --> 00:58:42.719 And it was the Reverend Cleophys Robinson. 00:58:42.960 --> 00:58:43.679 Cleophus. 00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:44.320 Right? 00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:47.599 With his, you know, it was full gospel band, choir. 00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:49.920 I mean, the real deal. 00:58:50.559 --> 00:58:52.000 And this would be on television. 00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:54.159 I'm like, wow, this is great. 00:58:54.400 --> 00:59:00.239 You know, and of course they would have these pilgrimages that they would sponsor, you know, you could for whatever. 00:59:00.400 --> 00:59:04.960 And I'd ask my mom or my dad, I'd say, can I go to the Holy Land with Reverend Cleophys? 00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:07.679 You know, because he seemed like a good guy and they were having a good time. 00:59:08.079 --> 00:59:10.159 No, you can't go to the Holy Land this week. 00:59:12.320 --> 00:59:13.440 Yeah, seriously. 00:59:13.760 --> 00:59:15.199 But songs are so good. 00:59:15.440 --> 00:59:15.760 Oh, yeah. 00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:22.000 You could, well, you know, like a performer knows, or like just an audience member, you know, when somebody's into it. 00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:29.280 When they're when they're delivering whatever it is, they're gonna get up on their chair, shout the truth, and that's it. 00:59:29.440 --> 00:59:29.840 Right. 00:59:30.159 --> 00:59:35.440 But this song, you know, when I first heard it, it brought around that. 00:59:35.679 --> 00:59:47.760 And then, you know, when you listen to when I listen to stuff like, you know, Stax Records or some of those early uh not the earliest Aretha Franklin sides, not like the gospel stuff, but more like the hits. 00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:48.559 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:52.960 Like the You know, Chain of Fools, the Alabama recorded stuff. 00:59:53.039 --> 00:59:59.840 Um, or you know, interestingly enough, the other thing it brings to mind, and I mean I just I love it for what it is. 00:59:59.920 --> 01:00:05.599 I love their performance of it, and it's you know, you could listen to it all day, right, on a loop. 01:00:05.760 --> 01:00:23.679 But um the way that Pop Staples would play guitar, and we know that tremolo and everything, and it sounds, you know, the the touchstone for me in my you know bucolic um suburb, right? 01:00:23.840 --> 01:00:24.800 Where we where we lived. 01:00:25.199 --> 01:00:26.400 It was in Sia Canton. 01:00:26.639 --> 01:00:27.840 It was really nice. 01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:30.000 It's still quite nice, actually. 01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:32.320 Um, same neighborhood, same everything. 01:00:32.480 --> 01:00:35.119 Well, the people were different, but you get the idea. 01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:42.719 But this, you know, like you you can hear John Fogarty and where he's getting where he what what what's informing him? 01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:44.079 And that's a buzz to me. 01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:56.719 Like, okay, John Fogarty, that band, Credence, yeah, Clearwater Revival, sounded like it came out of like the moss and the mud, you know, in Mississippi. 01:00:56.800 --> 01:00:58.400 But they're a Berkeley band. 01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:01.519 Like, okay, how's that happen? 01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:19.039 But then you do you you put this together with the way Pops would do it, you know, and there would be like sometimes the uh like the Roboto Beginning, you know, like midnight special that um uh Credence did, or something like this, and you hear that intoned in the same way. 01:01:19.360 --> 01:01:26.639 Yeah, it's just it's just kids trying to figure out like the sound of somebody else, and that's what that's or that people they're just turned on by it. 01:01:26.719 --> 01:01:32.000 I mean, to me, it's it's I wouldn't say it's uh straight away it's a copy or a rip-off. 01:01:32.239 --> 01:01:37.360 No, definitely not but it's just it's an it's an inspiration, and certainly John's voice, John Fogarty's voice. 01:01:37.599 --> 01:01:38.239 Wow. 01:01:38.480 --> 01:01:43.280 Um, but yeah, this song, there's just so much to it. 01:01:43.599 --> 01:01:56.719 You know, the way that they're singing, and it's

you know, it's yeah, it's such a straight up gospel song, you know, almost no instrumentation, yeah, it's all like except those voices, and it's wow, you know, really something. 01:01:57.280 --> 01:02:00.400 Reminding me of the Sam Cook stuff, the gospels. 01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:01.920 Yeah. 01:02:02.320 --> 01:02:02.960 Yeah. 01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:07.440 Um I hadn't I hadn't heard that in a long time, so it was cool to revisit. 01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:12.880 A friend of mine, Kevin Smith, who is a native son of Chicago. 01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:18.719 Um I've long known these stories, uh knowing Kevin. 01:02:19.119 --> 01:02:24.159 He's actually his grandfather who brought Sam Cook along. 01:02:24.800 --> 01:02:27.199 You know, the solstice and all that, you know. 01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:31.840 Which you know, we're talking about Chicago, we're talking about the staple singers, we're talking about Wilco. 01:02:32.239 --> 01:02:32.559 Right? 01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:34.320 There's there's a lot going on there. 01:02:34.639 --> 01:02:35.760 Coming back around. 01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:39.119 Yeah, um with Jeff working with Mavis. 01:02:39.360 --> 01:02:39.599 Yeah. 01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:41.360 In fact, you know crazy. 01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:44.079 Um uh what's the song? 01:02:44.239 --> 01:02:45.920 Bring it back home, bring it on home to me. 01:02:46.079 --> 01:02:46.880 Yeah, yeah, sound good. 01:02:47.039 --> 01:02:47.199 Right? 01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:48.239 With the the call and response. 01:02:48.400 --> 01:02:51.360 You know who the low who's the low response? 01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:52.639 Who is it? 01:02:52.880 --> 01:02:54.000 Lou Rawls. 01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:54.800 No way. 01:02:55.440 --> 01:02:56.800 Way no way. 01:02:57.440 --> 01:02:57.920 Way. 01:02:58.159 --> 01:02:59.119 Oh yeah. 01:02:59.679 --> 01:03:01.440 Well that I knew before I knew Kevin. 01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:04.000 Kevin, I love you wherever you're at, man. 01:03:04.239 --> 01:03:08.800 So you'll never find he does the the he's yeah, he's on there, yeah. 01:03:09.519 --> 01:03:14.960 Yeah, as good as good a yeah as you're ever gonna get in that register. 01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:17.360 Can we put a little more 700 hertz on that? 01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:18.719 But we don't need to, it's Lou. 01:03:19.119 --> 01:03:20.000 It's Lou, it's Lou. 01:03:20.079 --> 01:03:21.679 He's got the bottom covered, yeah. 01:03:21.920 --> 01:03:24.960 Oh man, yeah, that kind of thing. 01:03:25.280 --> 01:03:25.920 Wow. 01:03:26.800 --> 01:03:28.639 Oh man, I'm texting somebody about that. 01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:32.079 Yeah, I just just just my aside on that. 01:03:33.920 --> 01:03:36.079 It's too bad it's only 10 songs. 01:03:37.599 --> 01:03:39.519 Only 10 songs, only 10 songs. 01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:41.039 We're getting close to the end, y'all. 01:03:41.199 --> 01:03:46.239 Um, say it so it so song number four, side B. 01:03:46.639 --> 01:03:48.400 Um Visions of Joanna. 01:03:48.800 --> 01:03:49.199 Oh, yeah. 01:03:50.960 --> 01:04:07.440 The the okay, for this song, the way he does a sense of place and what's going on, and to my way of thinking, it could be several things, or even quite a few things, depending on who's listening. 01:04:07.599 --> 01:04:08.000 Yeah. 01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:15.679 But the idea that he's this observer, or maybe he's also a participant in a love triangle, right? 01:04:15.760 --> 01:04:25.280 And he's observing certain things happening, and there's these offhand, off-handed ways that he sets things up for you. 01:04:25.360 --> 01:04:33.599 You know, like the heat pipes just cough in this room, the country music station plays soft, but it's really nothing to turn off. 01:04:33.760 --> 01:04:40.719 You know, that those are the kind of lines you hope you find somewhere in the pages, you know, when you're writing, like I could fit that in there. 01:04:41.199 --> 01:04:43.760 You know, you know, I mean it's funny because that's cool. 01:04:44.079 --> 01:04:59.920 I think of when I think of this song, I think of like I think that I think how many verses, you know, like I wonder who that like that um uh my one of my uh there's many favorite uh Bob songs I have, but um uh what is it? 01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:01.840 Uh Masters of War. 01:05:02.079 --> 01:05:07.039 Well, that that could be a favorite, but um uh Desolation Row. 01:05:07.280 --> 01:05:07.920 Desolation Row. 01:05:08.159 --> 01:05:11.199 I mean that's like Beowulf with acoustic guitars, right? 01:05:11.519 --> 01:05:12.400 More than peace. 01:05:13.119 --> 01:05:13.679 Yeah. 01:05:13.920 --> 01:05:19.440 But you know, I mean, not to get, you know, uh keep on taking this. 01:05:19.760 --> 01:05:26.239 High-minded about all of this, but for me, you know, and Bob, you know, was an acquired taste over time. 01:05:26.480 --> 01:05:34.480 Yeah like I knew some things and I liked some things, which by the way, I'd seen Bob Dylan live when I was still in high school. 01:05:34.719 --> 01:05:38.079 Uh I was talking to my father the next day, and he said, Well, how's the show? 01:05:38.320 --> 01:05:40.719 So I was great, it was this, it was that. 01:05:40.880 --> 01:05:44.320 We walked straight up to the stage, no one stopped us, you know. 01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:49.119 I was right there, I was maybe, you know, 30, 40 feet from Bob. 01:05:49.280 --> 01:05:53.679 And he looked at me and said, You were that close and you didn't shoot. 01:05:54.400 --> 01:05:59.280 My parents, they really weren't into the nasally country thing, right? 01:06:09.599 --> 01:06:10.320 Yeah to Mr. 01:06:10.719 --> 01:06:10.880 Mr. 01:06:10.960 --> 01:06:11.280 Dylan. 01:06:11.599 --> 01:06:15.119 It's like my favorite Bob Dylan song is the shortest one. 01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:15.679 Oh. 01:06:17.039 --> 01:06:18.400 You know, like that kind of joke. 01:06:18.559 --> 01:06:19.199 Yeah, no. 01:06:19.760 --> 01:06:20.159 Oh man. 01:06:20.480 --> 01:06:22.880 I I I love Bob Dylan, but

it's a song for me. 01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:30.079 And and you know, like anything, uh well, you it's an acquired taste, kind of like port wine. 01:06:30.320 --> 01:06:33.519 You can't just open the bottle and go to it. 01:06:33.679 --> 01:06:37.760 You have to know how to work with that bottle. 01:06:38.480 --> 01:06:40.880 Yeah, it's I mean it's it's also And what it is. 01:06:41.440 --> 01:06:47.840 It's not the like b good good comparison with the bottle, because I feel like this is the kind of song that you have to drink the entire bottle. 01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:48.239 Yeah. 01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:49.679 Like you can't just have a glass. 01:06:51.679 --> 01:06:55.599 In moderation, in the song is a bottle. 01:06:56.000 --> 01:06:58.880 A more a more considered consumption, shall we say. 01:06:59.920 --> 01:07:22.800 But um I th oh the thing is like we were we were we were being high-minded and literary, but to me it's like I remember the first time I heard the song, I thought it was just like, oh, this is like Holden Caulfield in his 30s, like catcher in the ride, like that guy, like what happens to that guy once he's got like some sort of life experiences. 01:07:23.360 --> 01:07:24.000 That's it. 01:07:24.239 --> 01:07:40.639 And I mean, in sum, I would say to me, eventually I came around to this idea, which is that somehow in how he writes and what he the way he writes, he's chronicling the human condition, right? 01:07:41.039 --> 01:07:45.039 But it's it's hard to explain what that is. 01:07:45.119 --> 01:07:46.400 It's not straight away. 01:07:46.880 --> 01:07:47.119 No. 01:07:47.440 --> 01:07:51.519 You know, there's a um there's quite a lot going on. 01:07:51.840 --> 01:08:01.360 There's a certain, I mean, there's a certain magic to the like that he does this sort of like you can tell he's hurt and broken, but he keeps a distance from that. 01:08:01.519 --> 01:08:19.920 Like he doesn't like he doesn't like outright, uh like it's just all in the descriptions of what he says and the observations of you know, the the how he talks about Yeah, the syntax is more it's like you know You you're you're kind of distant and hurting here. 01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:22.560 Like you're kind of like I feel like a weird, like uh Yeah. 01:08:22.640 --> 01:08:27.840 Well he's he's he's giving all the signs and where to find it, but he doesn't really want to point the sign at him. 01:08:28.479 --> 01:08:28.960 Yeah, yeah. 01:08:29.359 --> 01:08:31.199 I think you're right about that to some degree. 01:08:31.439 --> 01:08:32.159 That's a good idea. 01:08:33.520 --> 01:08:46.880 It's not like it's all like it's sort of like and people would say like it's mysterious or it's whatever, and it's like or like vague in a way, you know, and I don't think it's vague at all, but I think it's just like he's completely like laying all the clues away from him. 01:08:48.079 --> 01:08:48.720 Yeah. 01:08:49.920 --> 01:08:51.359 Like over there, what was that? 01:08:51.439 -->

01:08:54.960 Uh throws a rock in the tree, squirrel. 01:08:56.239 --> 01:08:58.079 Yeah, it's not me. 01:08:58.399 --> 01:08:59.279 Do you remember? 01:08:59.359 --> 01:09:02.239 You said it took a while, especially with your parents not really liking him. 01:09:02.479 --> 01:09:11.840 Well, I mean, that was I mean, I I wasn't that rebellious in in some ways, in some ways I was, but uh, you know, it was all good natured. 01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:12.319 Yeah, yeah. 01:09:12.640 --> 01:09:13.119 You know. 01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:21.199 Um, I I think they they were they were really cool with music, you know, uh, as far as what they liked, you know, my mom. 01:09:22.720 --> 01:09:26.239 Uh she loved like, you know, the wind cries Mary. 01:09:26.399 --> 01:09:26.479 Yeah. 01:09:26.800 --> 01:09:27.760 Songs like that. 01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:34.399 Uh one time I brought home uh a record from a friend's house, my friend Dennis, who I grew up with, right? 01:09:34.560 --> 01:09:36.560 One street apart, right? 01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:43.199 And uh like me, he had old older siblings who had a lot of outside, too. 01:09:43.279 --> 01:09:44.800 A lot of this, a lot of that, right? 01:09:44.960 --> 01:09:48.880 So one day I came home with this record that I borrowed because I'd heard it over there. 01:09:48.960 --> 01:09:53.520 I liked it a lot, and it's got an electric chair on the cover, it's electric light orchestra, right? 01:09:53.840 --> 01:09:58.720 And I'm, I don't know, 10, 11, whatever, this old record that I've got. 01:09:59.359 --> 01:10:02.000 What's come here, what's going on with that, right? 01:10:02.079 --> 01:10:03.279 I said, Well, it's this. 01:10:04.159 --> 01:10:08.319 So they looked at each other and they it became some of their favorite music. 01:10:08.479 --> 01:10:09.600 Yeah, right. 01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:21.680 And uh, I can't remember the name of the song now, but it's all it's like that really thrashing acoustic number of vibrant and um it's not uh telephone line. 01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:24.159 No, they like telephone line too, right? 01:10:24.239 --> 01:10:25.520 Because it's a beautiful song. 01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:28.159 They were into that kind of they like melody, yeah, right. 01:10:28.239 --> 01:10:34.479 So if they let's put it this way, if they bought art to frame, they would be buying more of like the bowl of fruit. 01:10:34.640 --> 01:10:37.760 Yes, they would not be buying, you know, whatever. 01:10:38.079 --> 01:10:38.479 That's right. 01:10:38.720 --> 01:10:42.800 Yeah, that's not um, wasn't necessarily their thing. 01:10:43.039 --> 01:10:45.680 But um what was the song? 01:10:45.840 --> 01:10:55.840 I can't remember what it was, but it's there's that intro with the backwards and all the other craziness, you know, sort of like a verite, yeah, and then it it hits, right? 01:10:56.000 --> 01:11:04.640 And it's it's more, you know, it's got like that uh organ arpagio, and then it just the the acoustic takes over, right? 01:11:04.960 --> 01:11:08.560 Not really any proper vocal to it, and I think it's probably Melatron. 01:11:09.039 --> 01:11:15.439 I'm not a music geek, so don't pay me, don't pay that anymore that I would actually call that out. 01:11:15.680 --> 01:11:17.840 But I can't remember the name of the song. 01:11:17.920 --> 01:11:19.600 It's a great song, but that's I know the album. 01:11:19.920 --> 01:11:23.119 That was one of my father's favorite pop songs, you know. 01:11:23.199 --> 01:11:26.880 And they were like like like early Chicago, like CTA stuff. 01:11:27.039 --> 01:11:27.600 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:11:27.760 --> 01:11:29.359 And he would always talk about Danny. 01:11:29.840 --> 01:11:30.560 Oh, the drummer. 01:11:30.880 --> 01:11:33.039 He was listen to how that guy plays. 01:11:33.199 --> 01:11:35.359 It's really vocal, it's expressive. 01:11:35.680 --> 01:11:37.199 You know, wow. 01:11:37.439 --> 01:11:42.800 And you know, my yeah, yeah, my dad was one of those guys, he wouldn't he didn't have any extra words. 01:11:42.960 --> 01:11:45.199 He just said exactly what needed to be said. 01:11:45.439 --> 01:11:47.840 Man, he was he would go on clocks. 01:11:48.479 --> 01:11:49.600 We can't add seconds. 01:11:49.760 --> 01:11:50.239 Right. 01:11:50.399 --> 01:11:50.880 That's right. 01:11:52.479 --> 01:11:55.840 Um, but he would go on at length about certain music. 01:11:56.000 --> 01:11:57.119 Yeah, you know. 01:11:57.439 --> 01:11:59.920 Um, of course, you go on about Hank Williams, too. 01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:02.319 Like, yeah, that you can't bring that in the house. 01:12:02.560 --> 01:12:02.800 No. 01:12:04.800 --> 01:12:06.000 That just wasn't their thing. 01:12:06.159 --> 01:12:06.560 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:12:06.720 --> 01:12:07.600 You know, whatever. 01:12:07.760 --> 01:12:09.840 But um, they liked a lot of stuff, man. 01:12:10.079 --> 01:12:18.560 Blues, RB, like old RB, you know, stacks, some Motown stuff, stuff like that, you know, Buddha Record stuff. 01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:30.399 We've come to the moment for the last song on side B, and it's one of Jim's personal songs that he's written called You Can't Let Me Down. 01:12:30.640 --> 01:12:31.600 Oh, yeah. 01:12:32.079 --> 01:12:33.600 Why this song? 01:12:34.560 --> 01:12:42.720 Um, I think it has a lot of elements that we might have touched on with these songs. 01:12:42.880 --> 01:12:43.520 Yeah. 01:12:44.000 --> 01:12:46.720 But um, I I don't know. 01:12:46.880 --> 01:12:50.079 I mean, I like I say, today's the day I'm picking this one. 01:12:50.239 --> 01:12:52.000 Tomorrow could be another one, who knows? 01:12:52.159 --> 01:12:54.000 But I like the song. 01:12:54.159 --> 01:12:56.000 Um, I like the bridge in the song. 01:12:56.159 --> 01:12:56.319 Yeah. 01:12:56.560 --> 01:12:58.239 I try to focus on bridge writing. 01:12:58.319 --> 01:13:02.800 Not every song needs one, but if you're gonna do one, you know, it's like a chorus. 01:13:02.880 --> 01:13:12.720 You want the

chorus to be memorable and sort of transportive to whatever it is, you know, expressive and transportive. 01:13:12.880 --> 01:13:16.560 And you want a bridge, like all bridges, literal and otherwise. 01:13:16.640 --> 01:13:18.640 You want to make a personal rule. 01:13:18.800 --> 01:13:21.600 Oh every song needs a bridge. 01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:25.199 It's just some songs, that bridge is just optional. 01:13:25.760 --> 01:13:26.159 Ooh. 01:13:26.640 --> 01:13:28.960 Like ever I feel like every song needs a bridge. 01:13:29.119 --> 01:13:32.319 Like every song, because it's like whatever the the purpose of the bridge is. 01:13:32.560 --> 01:13:32.880 Oh man. 01:13:33.279 --> 01:13:35.600 You need to you need to always ask that question. 01:13:35.760 --> 01:13:37.840 And sometimes that question doesn't need to be heard. 01:13:38.079 --> 01:13:38.239 Yeah. 01:13:38.399 --> 01:13:41.039 And are you are is the listener gonna fall through the bridge? 01:13:42.319 --> 01:13:44.800 Like down to the alligators like the trapdoor. 01:13:45.039 --> 01:13:49.600 Like you had me until you put that that bummer of a bridge in there that doesn't fit. 01:13:50.159 --> 01:14:05.920 Um, but that's why I feel like always it's like the whole I mean, it's I I I saw an interview with Sting that and and I always thought of this in my mind, and and he said that um the bridge answers the question of the song. 01:14:06.399 --> 01:14:07.119 The summation. 01:14:07.359 --> 01:14:07.840 Yeah, yeah. 01:14:08.319 --> 01:14:26.319 Basically, whatever the whatever you're you know, you're presenting in the verses and you're kind of like uh stating in the chorus, whatever the conundrum is, whatever the situation is, your bridge puts you at a place where you say what you feel about it. 01:14:26.560 --> 01:14:26.960 Oh wow. 01:14:27.199 --> 01:14:27.680 You know what I mean? 01:14:27.760 --> 01:14:30.640 Like, and it's just like when he said that, I'm like, of course, yes, I get that now. 01:14:31.039 --> 01:14:32.079 Almost like a Greek chorus. 01:14:32.319 --> 01:14:33.920 Yeah, like hey, you're the chorus. 01:14:34.159 --> 01:14:35.359 Like you that you are. 01:14:35.439 --> 01:14:48.560 It's like it's not like it's like like how do you how do it's like none necessarily doesn't necessarily resolve, but it's just more like like almost like what's the personal what's your what's your uh the payoff. 01:14:48.880 --> 01:14:52.640 The payoff, what's your investment in this, what's your what what's the reason? 01:14:53.279 --> 01:14:54.399 But it doesn't have to be there. 01:14:54.479 --> 01:15:03.359 Like, you know, like I said, it doesn't like you know, I I always had that rule that like I always I always have a bridge, I always think about a bridge, but uh I don't necessarily always put it in. 01:15:03.600 --> 01:15:17.520 But yeah, I feel well, you know, I mean, um a lot of these songs that I've mentioned and the writers of these songs, you know, they they wrote great bridges often,

you know. 01:15:18.239 --> 01:15:22.000 Um tell me a little bit about the the bridge. 01:15:22.079 --> 01:15:23.520 I love the chorus in the song, by the way. 01:15:23.680 --> 01:15:37.680 This is this is what I was saying, like we're going back to I lost it, the sort of the humor of it, the sort of like the tone where it's just like yeah, well, that that hook, that that chorus line. 01:15:37.920 --> 01:15:43.760 Um, you know, I mentioned earlier that I was writing things under a deadline, and there were some set of songs. 01:15:43.920 --> 01:15:48.960 This was actually in that uh last set of songs that was four that we did in a day. 01:15:49.439 --> 01:16:00.479 Like the beds, you know, and then I'd go back and over to guitar stuff, and then any vocal that wasn't a keeper or do background vocals, you know, just try to figure it all out a little better. 01:16:00.720 --> 01:16:07.600 And um, and especially since I can't do that as a sideman, it was my uh indulgence. 01:16:07.920 --> 01:16:15.359 Okay, I'm gonna take a little bit of time here and maybe just dial in the tone a little different or whatever if I if it needed it. 01:16:15.520 --> 01:16:16.079 Right. 01:16:16.560 --> 01:16:25.680 Um, but this song, so I'm I'm I've got to be back in the studio with Shane, um, you know, who produced and engineered the record. 01:16:26.159 --> 01:16:29.359 And at his place in Van Nuys, actually. 01:16:29.920 --> 01:16:30.479 Not far from you. 01:16:30.720 --> 01:16:32.239 Beautiful downtown Van Nuys. 01:16:32.880 --> 01:16:44.399 So I had to be there like about one o'clock that day, and we were gonna go over some overdubs and maybe try to finalize some mixing on some stuff that we'd already done for the record. 01:16:45.039 --> 01:16:48.720 And I'm I'm locked in, I'm trying to write songs, right? 01:16:48.880 --> 01:16:54.399 And that day the roofers were over at the house putting the roof on the new roof on. 01:16:54.640 --> 01:16:58.960 The old bits had been taken away like like two days before. 01:16:59.279 --> 01:17:02.640 And yeah, Kim was coming by. 01:17:02.720 --> 01:17:06.079 You know, I'm at this one place where I always write, and stuff's everywhere. 01:17:06.319 --> 01:17:10.560 Notebooks, you know, bins that have other notebooks, the whole deal. 01:17:10.800 --> 01:17:13.199 And she said, Don't you have to be at the studio soon? 01:17:13.279 --> 01:17:14.000 You have to leave, right? 01:17:14.079 --> 01:17:17.359 I said, Yeah, I've got to, but I've got I'm looking for something here. 01:17:17.520 --> 01:17:20.560 I was actually writing a different song than this. 01:17:20.880 --> 01:17:25.439 Um, and when I get stuck on a song, I tend to just start something else. 01:17:25.520 --> 01:17:29.520 So I'll start booting through all the pages I have set out. 01:17:30.079 --> 01:17:37.439 And this lyric, You Can't Let Me Down, I'm already here, which is the whole bit of it. 01:17:38.079 --> 01:17:49.920 That was in an older notebook, and I know this

because for a long time I've only written in purple ink simply because that's what I just like the way it looks visually on the page, right? 01:17:50.079 --> 01:17:57.680 I use just plain uh paper, no lines, and it just I like to see more of it, so I keep writing, right? 01:17:57.760 --> 01:17:58.399 That's the idea. 01:17:58.640 --> 01:18:06.720 Anyway, so I'm looking through this notebook, and I'm like, yeah, I gotta find something else to do, and I'll come back to this other song. 01:18:06.960 --> 01:18:12.479 And there it was in black ink, so I know it was older, yeah, quite a bit older. 01:18:12.640 --> 01:18:17.600 You know, some spiral notebook, which I don't even use now, which also is a tell. 01:18:17.920 --> 01:18:22.880 And apart from anything else on the page, you can't let me down, I'm already here. 01:18:23.359 --> 01:18:30.319 I actually remember where I was when I wrote that lyric, when that lyric came to me years before, right? 01:18:30.560 --> 01:18:39.600 But I looked at it and I just happened to have the cable at that position, and this thing just the whole thing, the hall of it. 01:18:40.319 --> 01:18:45.119 Now, the crazy thing is I got excited about there's something about it, right? 01:18:45.199 --> 01:18:52.079 It just jumped off the page at me and started into playing, hit record on the trusty phone, right? 01:18:52.319 --> 01:18:55.600 So you can hear the racket of these guys. 01:18:55.760 --> 01:19:00.560 They're like 13, 14 feet above me going at it, right? 01:19:00.720 --> 01:19:08.079 And I'm you know, like the very big, like it's the big bang moment where this thing enters the world, and with all these roofers. 01:19:08.239 --> 01:19:18.640 Of course, the song has nothing to do with roofing, but it became you know, like there was different things I thought about the song, like, okay, I'm gonna enumerate all these things that somebody has done to me in this relationship. 01:19:18.720 --> 01:19:21.760 And I nah, I don't have enough time for that, right? 01:19:22.399 --> 01:19:25.760 And uh, so it became it quickly became this thing. 01:19:25.920 --> 01:19:26.880 I didn't finish it then. 01:19:26.960 --> 01:19:35.119 All I got was the chorus, what became the chorus, and so the the body of the song, the chords, because it just sort of Okay, the vibe, the song. 01:19:35.359 --> 01:19:42.720 Yeah, like it's somehow it push-pulled between a minor and a major, like the the verses are minor and the verse is major. 01:19:44.319 --> 01:19:44.800 Yeah. 01:19:45.039 --> 01:19:48.960 Um so I thought, well, this is this is really something. 01:19:49.119 --> 01:19:51.760 And I listened to it on the way to the studio, right? 01:19:51.920 --> 01:19:53.920 I thought, yeah, I I like this. 01:19:54.239 --> 01:19:58.399 And I played it for Shane, and he's like, What do you you know, what have you been doing? 01:19:58.479 --> 01:20:00.800 You're not usually you don't cut it this close. 01:20:00.880 --> 01:20:02.319 I'm like, yeah, well,

I was doing it. 01:20:02.399 --> 01:20:04.960 I said, you know, I think I like this song, and what do you think? 01:20:05.039 --> 01:20:06.640 And he said, finish it. 01:20:06.800 --> 01:20:08.319 We have to record that. 01:20:08.960 --> 01:20:17.840 And you know, Shane, he's he's gonna cut right to whatever he's thinking, he's not gonna put any polish on it, just straight, straight truth. 01:20:17.920 --> 01:20:19.520 But the way he reacted is okay. 01:20:19.680 --> 01:20:22.720 So in the next few days, I finished the song, you know. 01:20:23.199 --> 01:20:30.800 And uh the funny thing is, on the song I was working on that day, which is um America's Road. 01:20:31.039 --> 01:20:36.079 Okay, that song is a song that I'd sent to my buddy Adam Moyer. 01:20:36.239 --> 01:20:39.279 He's a filmmaker, known Adam for a long time. 01:20:39.520 --> 01:20:42.560 And uh, you know, every once in a while he'll say, What are you working on? 01:20:42.720 --> 01:20:44.239 And I'll say, Oh, I've got this, you know. 01:20:44.319 --> 01:20:48.239 So I sent him this acoustic, this partial acoustic demo of that song. 01:20:48.319 --> 01:20:49.920 It was mostly done. 01:20:50.319 --> 01:20:53.039 And I said, you know, check this out. 01:20:53.199 --> 01:20:54.159 And he calls me up. 01:20:54.239 --> 01:20:57.039 He said, No, you there's something about you have to finish that. 01:20:57.119 --> 01:21:03.600 He said, In fact, if you finish that, there's this film I'm working on, and we'll get it in the film if you can, you know. 01:21:03.760 --> 01:21:04.720 So, oh, okay. 01:21:05.119 --> 01:21:11.760 So the wheels start to turn, like, well, I have these other songs that I have finished or partially finished. 01:21:12.159 --> 01:21:14.079 Um, let me get this sorted. 01:21:14.159 --> 01:21:21.199 And okay, so who would I okay call some of the usuals and some of my heroes, you know, that all said yes. 01:21:21.520 --> 01:21:21.920 Amazing. 01:21:22.079 --> 01:21:26.640 Yeah, oh I hats off and drinks up to these people. 01:21:26.880 --> 01:21:28.399 Amazing, all of them. 01:21:28.720 --> 01:21:31.760 And uh, so I'm gonna get this song. 01:21:31.840 --> 01:21:33.600 Um, it's gotta be in a movie, you know. 01:21:33.680 --> 01:21:36.720 It's two hands on the rim, slam dunk, right? 01:21:36.800 --> 01:21:37.840 It's gonna happen. 01:21:38.159 --> 01:21:39.760 Well, wouldn't you know it? 01:21:39.840 --> 01:21:44.960 In the mixing stage for me on the song, um, America's Road. 01:21:45.199 --> 01:21:49.680 Let's say there was a bump in the road uh from my friend's film. 01:21:50.000 --> 01:21:50.640 Oh, okay. 01:21:50.880 --> 01:21:51.199 Yeah. 01:21:51.600 --> 01:21:52.720 Normal things happen. 01:21:53.119 --> 01:21:56.640 Well, it was just one of those things, and it did not have anything to do with him. 01:21:56.720 --> 01:21:58.399 It was one of those, really? 01:21:59.439 --> 01:22:02.079 Well me to send somebody out to to talk to this guy? 01:22:02.319 --> 01:22:03.439 No, okay, everyone. 01:22:03.920 --> 01:22:05.520 It was one of those, like, really. 01:22:06.000 --> 01:22:09.680 Anyway, um, that's a that's maybe too much of a reveal. 01:22:10.000 --> 01:22:14.800 But America's Road was the impetus to like, okay, we're gonna, I'm gonna make a record. 01:22:14.960 --> 01:22:15.199 Yeah, yeah. 01:22:15.840 --> 01:22:16.880 Why wouldn't I make an album? 01:22:18.479 --> 01:22:22.479 And that got the crazy really going in my head, like, okay, we're gonna do this. 01:22:22.720 --> 01:22:26.720 And I started looking, okay, what are the other ideas and what's this? 01:22:26.880 --> 01:22:38.479 And then after I finished America's Road in quick, quick succession, I remember it was um You Just Say So, uh, Don't Think At All. 01:22:38.720 --> 01:22:38.960 Okay. 01:22:39.199 --> 01:22:45.279 Which was one of those things I started, I don't know how it was almost like watching a film, as they say. 01:22:45.439 --> 01:22:46.560 You know, if somebody else did it. 01:22:46.880 --> 01:22:48.880 Yeah, when it when it when it kind of the whole thing plays out. 01:22:49.359 --> 01:22:58.399 Wherever I thought I needed it to go, I could find some lyrics, or maybe in the on the moment think of a lyric that okay, shape it this way, throw that in there, whatever. 01:22:58.640 --> 01:23:06.079 But it just it was completed probably in I'd say that song front to back, two hours, you know. 01:23:06.560 --> 01:23:17.920 But like uh Diane Warren told me once, you know, all that all the stuff that you're not using, all the bad stuff, all the sort of second-tier stuff, that's the stuff that gets you to the heroes. 01:23:18.000 --> 01:23:19.439 That's the stuff that gets you to the winners. 01:23:19.600 --> 01:23:20.239 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:23:20.399 --> 01:23:24.960 You know, I remember she she was going out, she's like, Yeah, my first publishing deal was crap, right? 01:23:25.119 --> 01:23:29.279 But that's the thing that got her to understand publishing and move forward. 01:23:29.439 --> 01:23:34.640 The point is it's never gonna be perfect, and you you you just have to jump in and start swimming. 01:23:34.720 --> 01:23:37.359 You're gonna get somewhere, you won't run out of gas. 01:23:37.600 --> 01:23:38.399 No, no, no, right. 01:23:38.560 --> 01:23:44.239 And and but sometimes though sometimes those bad ideas with time, it means something else. 01:23:44.479 --> 01:23:48.079 Yeah, you you do this to it, and oh, now it's that perspective. 01:23:48.319 --> 01:23:49.680 It was a cat, now it's a dog. 01:23:49.840 --> 01:23:50.479 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:23:50.720 --> 01:23:52.640 And I see it, it works, right? 01:23:52.960 --> 01:23:59.760 Yeah, but she was you know, clearly inspiring, you know, to hang out and talk with a little bit and hear her. 01:24:00.319 --> 01:24:05.680 You know, I love she's absolutely real about what she is and what she does. 01:24:05.840 --> 01:24:10.159 And few people love an F-bomb like Diane Warren. 01:24:11.039

--> 01:24:12.800 Surprised they haven't landed in a song. 01:24:13.039 --> 01:24:20.640 And I I gotta tell you, I I I give I give mad respect for anybody who is that at ease with themselves. 01:24:20.800 --> 01:24:20.880 Yeah. 01:24:21.039 --> 01:24:23.680 And it just like, I'm gonna tell you how it is. 01:24:23.760 --> 01:24:26.800 If you don't like it, you don't like it, but I'm gonna tell you how it is. 01:24:27.279 --> 01:24:27.840 You know. 01:24:28.159 --> 01:24:34.960 So the song, you know, once I You Can't Let Me Down, I I got the idea of what it was gonna be. 01:24:35.039 --> 01:24:39.840 It was gonna be that person who keeps coming back into your life, right? 01:24:40.000 --> 01:24:45.840 It's that phone call that happens in the wee hours, and you're thinking, Yeah, I know that number, I'm not gonna pick this. 01:24:46.000 --> 01:24:47.199 And you pick it up. 01:24:48.000 --> 01:24:50.079 You pick it up again. 01:24:51.039 --> 01:24:53.680 And it's not so bad at first. 01:24:53.760 --> 01:24:55.359 And then it's just a mess. 01:24:55.760 --> 01:24:57.600 You know, and you're left you're left there wondering. 01:24:58.159 --> 01:24:59.520 That's the song, right? 01:24:59.680 --> 01:25:05.119 That back and you, you know, go ahead and try, but I'm already here, I already know what to expect. 01:25:05.279 --> 01:25:05.600 Yeah, yeah. 01:25:05.840 --> 01:25:07.760 You know, but whatever. 01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:12.880 Um, but that that song was so much fun to make. 01:25:13.199 --> 01:25:21.840 And rather quickly, when we were running it down in the studio, you know, everybody uh really for the first time, and I didn't know what they were going to bring to the table. 01:25:22.079 --> 01:25:31.680 But we we straight away started to say, all right, it's gonna begin this way, and then little little by little things will bleed into it. 01:25:32.000 --> 01:25:37.680 And it just right there, you could feel it in those basic tracks, it blossomed. 01:25:37.760 --> 01:25:50.479 I think we did maybe four takes of it, you know, and maybe two or a breakdown just to see, yeah, we've got enough happening here, or no, we could pick it up a little more here and add this, whatever. 01:25:50.720 --> 01:25:53.920 And it was just amazing to me, you know. 01:25:54.079 --> 01:26:04.960 But that's that's more to do with them, what the players were doing, and certainly Shane, he would find certain things um that people were doing because we're doing this on the fly. 01:26:05.279 --> 01:26:07.439 Yeah, and kind of like, hey, that thing that you were doing. 01:26:07.920 --> 01:26:09.279 For instance, uh Mr. 01:26:09.359 --> 01:26:20.479 Jeff Young at the keyboards, there was one figure he started to play for part of the bridge, and Shane said, No, no, no, no, that's all the way do that. 01:26:20.960 --> 01:26:21.279 Right? 01:26:21.359 --> 01:26:25.840 Don't just because sometimes you're sort of trying, you're feeling, you're playing, whatever. 01:26:26.079 --> 01:26:28.079 And this song came together that way. 01:26:28.159 --> 01:26:39.840 And then when I was doing the overdubs with the guitars and the background vocals, it was I I mean, it just came together because everything worked so well, you know. 01:26:40.000 --> 01:26:46.319 Everybody found their little area to be in and to have their thing, whatever they do, however they do it. 01:26:46.479 --> 01:26:49.680 And it just worked, you know, so well. 01:26:50.159 --> 01:26:57.359 And uh I, you know, I can't say ever enough about them and what they did, those players, you know. 01:26:58.319 --> 01:27:04.319 I thought I felt like, you know, this is I'm just lucky to be in the room. 01:27:04.560 --> 01:27:04.960 That's right. 01:27:05.279 --> 01:27:12.800 You know, I wish you the same experience and an even better one for the next album, man. 01:27:13.039 --> 01:27:14.319 Oh, it's gonna be better. 01:27:14.479 --> 01:27:16.800 And it, you know what? 01:27:16.880 --> 01:27:23.439 I I already have the plan, the basic plan for it, and I know that I'm gonna, you know, record with Shane again. 01:27:23.760 --> 01:27:24.079 Awesome. 01:27:24.319 --> 01:27:39.760 Yeah, it's just we have like a telepathy from from that experience and him going, you are in the weeds, get out of there, get out of there, get out, get get May Day, May Day out of there. 01:27:40.319 --> 01:27:40.560 Right. 01:27:40.640 --> 01:27:42.399 So I know where that line's gonna be. 01:27:42.479 --> 01:27:43.760 And like, okay. 01:27:43.840 --> 01:27:50.560 And that just, you know, the whole thing together puts me in a place where I can be a lot more prepared and relaxed with it. 01:27:50.720 --> 01:27:51.840 Because it was madness. 01:27:52.000 --> 01:27:59.760 I was, you know, like I was saying, barely home enough to get it written, to get it organized, and making phone calls, you know, handling. 01:28:00.239 --> 01:28:03.439 The money making moves like Lebowski would. 01:28:03.680 --> 01:28:04.000 Yes. 01:28:04.239 --> 01:28:04.880 Yes. 01:28:05.359 --> 01:28:07.439 And uh not unlike the Lebowski. 01:28:07.760 --> 01:28:08.399 Hey man. 01:28:08.560 --> 01:28:14.319 You know, I met the real Jeff who isn't his name's not Lebowski, but I met the guy. 01:28:14.479 --> 01:28:15.520 The actual inspiration? 01:28:15.760 --> 01:28:16.880 The guy. 01:28:17.600 --> 01:28:24.239 The guy who was act who was integral, believe it or not, in uh Sundance with Redford. 01:28:24.640 --> 01:28:25.119 Really? 01:28:25.279 --> 01:28:25.600 Wow. 01:28:25.760 --> 01:28:26.079 Yeah. 01:28:26.399 --> 01:28:29.359 He's hard to describe. 01:28:29.520 --> 01:28:34.000 I mean, when I met him, it was just hanging out at this place, you know, trip in Santa Monica. 01:28:34.239 --> 01:28:34.479 Yeah, yeah. 01:28:34.560 --> 01:28:34.640 Yeah. 01:28:34.880 --> 01:28:35.199 Still there. 01:28:35.520 --> 01:28:38.960 Uh a friend of mine, uh, his name is Robin. 01:28:39.199 --> 01:28:44.000 He is at the time neighbors with

this fellow, Jeff. 01:28:44.319 --> 01:28:54.720 Who had long hair and was given to maybe questionable sweater choices, you know, outer wear choices. 01:28:55.039 --> 01:29:03.840 But sweetheart guy, very on top of things, very intelligent, and uh really cool to talk to. 01:29:04.000 --> 01:29:07.520 Not because of what he is in that inspiration. 01:29:07.840 --> 01:29:10.800 Yeah, but but um he obviously inspired it. 01:29:10.960 --> 01:29:13.039 Yeah, quite, quite, quite a, quite a dude. 01:29:13.279 --> 01:29:13.840 Quite a dude. 01:29:14.079 --> 01:29:14.560 Quite a dude. 01:29:15.600 --> 01:29:15.760 Yeah. 01:29:15.840 --> 01:29:18.079 So that there's there's 10 songs. 01:29:18.479 --> 01:29:19.920 Your greatest hits, man. 01:29:20.000 --> 01:29:21.600 Thank you so much for being a part of this. 01:29:21.840 --> 01:29:24.880 I mean, I really, really appreciate you uh coming here. 01:29:26.079 --> 01:29:32.319 You coming here and uh letting it all out and uh and telling me uh about these particular songs. 01:29:32.479 --> 01:29:56.640 And um I always love getting the list because um I feel like I have an advantage point of being the sort of the first spectator of the list and going, uh I see the through lines, like I can see the connections, I can see, you know, like the the, you know, that whatever the the serial killer map, you know how they do the like the streets and whatever. 01:29:56.880 --> 01:29:59.199 Like I can do like the the Oh the evidence board. 01:29:59.359 --> 01:30:00.000 The evidence board. 01:30:00.159 --> 01:30:04.079 I can totally do like okay, this to this and this to that, and this back over here. 01:30:04.479 --> 01:30:10.720 Or maybe like uh a roarshark of sorts, a ven Venn diagram, see butterflies. 01:30:11.439 --> 01:30:12.560 Looks like a lot of ink. 01:30:12.800 --> 01:30:13.439 Yes, I don't know. 01:30:13.680 --> 01:30:15.680 A lot of overlapping circles, let's say. 01:30:15.840 --> 01:30:16.640 Oh yeah. 01:30:17.039 --> 01:30:18.000 Thank you so much, man. 01:30:18.159 --> 01:30:18.880 Really, it was a pleasure. 01:30:19.119 --> 01:30:19.840 Thank you, Gio. 01:30:20.079 --> 01:30:20.239 Thank you. 01:30:21.520 --> 01:30:25.359 Oh, by the way, I didn't pay attention at the whole time. 01:30:25.439 --> 01:30:26.720 I thought that was a Sturgis. 01:30:27.279 --> 01:30:27.680 Oh, no. 01:30:28.239 --> 01:30:29.119 It's Sturgil Simpson. 01:30:29.279 --> 01:30:30.079 Sturgil Simpson, yeah. 01:30:30.239 --> 01:30:33.920 He's one of my favorite uh in in the new Vanguard. 01:30:34.880 --> 01:30:37.039 Uh uh alt-country gentlemen. 01:30:37.359 --> 01:30:39.840 Sturgil and Eric Church. 01:30:40.239 --> 01:30:44.640 I really like how they they're pushing it forward. 01:30:44.880 --> 01:30:45.359 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:30:45.760 --> 01:30:50.479 And this guy in particular, man, like every the last three or four albums he's put out, each one has been completely different. 01:30:50.800 --> 01:30:58.319 I mean, great songwriting across the board, but pushing it forward, pushing the form, and even like Eric Church's uh sonically. 01:30:58.479 --> 01:31:06.720 It's like, wow, dude, this is this is really stepping out you know, the usual country bag, and it's great to hear. 01:31:07.199 --> 01:31:08.479 It's it's important, man. 01:31:08.560 --> 01:31:20.880 It's an it's important for to have to have these, uh, even if they're gonna be on the fringe, elements that kind of uh show some sort of evolution, you know, and some some present day uh uh influence. 01:31:21.279 --> 01:31:25.359 Well there's that, but I think they they're really it's them, it's them. 01:31:25.680 --> 01:31:26.479 Oh, truly them. 01:31:26.720 --> 01:31:33.199 I mean then they're they're they're inquisitive, they're like exploring, they're trying new things, they're they're kind of uh expanding. 01:31:33.439 --> 01:31:33.680 Yeah. 01:31:33.920 --> 01:31:37.039 Um and that's that's you know, they're not staying in the same rut. 01:31:37.600 --> 01:31:40.079 They'll eat the cookies, but they won't use the cookie cutter. 01:31:40.319 --> 01:31:40.800 No, they won't. 01:31:40.960 --> 01:31:41.119 Yeah. 01:31:41.359 --> 01:31:41.680 They won't. 01:31:41.760 --> 01:31:44.800 They got the lumpy cookies that are all kind of fresh and hot from the oven. 01:31:45.039 --> 01:31:45.199 Yeah. 01:31:45.359 --> 01:31:51.279 I mean, you know, yeah, I mean, a cookie cutter is a good thing, but it's not it's not as special. 01:31:51.520 --> 01:31:51.760 No. 01:31:52.079 --> 01:31:52.399 Okay. 01:31:53.199 --> 01:31:55.840 We don't like the cookie cutter, but we love the cookies, y'all. 01:31:56.079 --> 01:31:56.800 Oh man. 01:31:57.119 --> 01:31:58.479 We love the cookies. 01:31:59.199 --> 01:32:00.399 You gotta use that. 01:32:03.039 --> 01:32:04.000 You gotta use that. 01:32:04.079 --> 01:32:04.800 That's a good one. 01:32:05.119 --> 01:32:05.840 All right, y'all. 01:32:06.000 --> 01:32:06.319 Be good. 01:32:06.479 --> 01:32:08.159 Migrate assist next time. 01:32:08.560 --> 01:32:09.439 Rocksteady. 01:32:11.760 --> 01:32:12.159 Rock. 01:32:13.920 --> 01:32:15.359 Wow, how cool, man. 01:32:15.439 --> 01:32:16.239 That was great.