Full Transcript for Weekly Spotlight - Katie Shepherd on Motherhood, Postpartum Depression, and Letting Go of Perfection

like everybody around me has kids, and especially where I'm from at a very young age has kids. 00:02:35.859 --> 00:02:39.219 But yeah, it was just like, oh, that's just what you do. 00:02:39.299 --> 00:02:40.500 Like now you have kids. 00:02:41.219 --> 00:02:43.379 Then I got to my early 30s, I was like, whoa. 00:02:44.020 --> 00:02:45.620 And then I like revisited again. 00:02:46.020 --> 00:02:46.340 Sure. 00:02:46.579 --> 00:02:51.299 Is that around the time, like your early 30s, when you started thinking about getting pregnant? 00:02:51.699 --> 00:02:52.099 Yeah. 00:02:52.579 --> 00:03:08.579 I mean, like, I don't know how it was for you, but you start hearing the term geriatric pregnancy floated around, and you're like, oh my God, I feel like I was just at a club at 21 in a mini skirt, like you know, yesterday. 00:03:08.979 --> 00:03:13.379 And now all of a sudden they're telling me I'm gonna have a geriatric pregnancy. 00:03:13.539 --> 00:03:18.020 And so then like my own ageism crap comes in, right? 00:03:18.259 --> 00:03:21.539 And how old are you when I got pregnant with my son? 00:03:21.699 --> 00:03:22.740 I was 36. 00:03:23.139 --> 00:03:32.020 I can relate to that, and it's so funny because people are having kids so much older that I feel like they should change this term, like geriatric pregnancy, elderly pregnancy. 00:03:32.180 --> 00:03:37.139 I have heard advanced maternal age, which I feel like is not any better. 00:03:37.939 --> 00:03:41.539 But um I know because I also got pregnant at 36. 00:03:41.939 --> 00:03:44.259 Did you have any issues getting pregnant? 00:03:45.219 --> 00:03:45.539 No. 00:03:45.780 --> 00:03:52.579 I in fact, I was like, oh, what if I um just go off birth control just to see what happens? 00:03:52.900 --> 00:03:56.099 And then I decided to to try it. 00:03:56.579 --> 00:03:59.219 Within it felt like five seconds, I was pregnant. 00:03:59.299 --> 00:04:07.620 I remember being like, oh, like I really don't feel good in a way that feels like I'm hungover, but I haven't had anything to drink. 00:04:07.780 --> 00:04:11.939 And then it was the very first pregnancy test I took, I was pregnant. 00:04:12.099 --> 00:04:12.340 Yeah. 00:04:12.659 --> 00:04:12.979 Wow. 00:04:13.219 --> 00:04:14.259 Wow, that's great. 00:04:14.500 --> 00:04:19.300 So at that point when you did decide to go off, you were planning on getting pregnant. 00:04:19.460 --> 00:04:20.660 That was the idea. 00:04:20.980 --> 00:04:25.300 Yeah, I mean, I had the very mixed feelings, if I'm honest about it. 00:04:25.460 --> 00:04:28.900 Because, like I said, when I was younger, it was like, oh, I will become a mom. 00:04:29.060 --> 00:04:30.980 Like that is an inevitable. 00:04:31.140 --> 00:04:42.660 Like, I remember doing like a vision board, and it's like some magazine version of me that's like typing at a desk, but then there's children running around, and I have like a huge bay window, like this is my vision board for myself, right? 00:04:43.060 --> 00:04:52.740 It was like I want to have a baby, especially because I'm scared that I'm in the geriatric bracket, but then I also am like, oh, I don't have a house. 00:04:52.900 --> 00:04:59.380 Like, I live in an apartment, I don't have all this stuff that I was supposed to have by the time I became a mom. 00:05:00.260 --> 00:05:08.660 So the thing keeping me from it wasn't the idea of a child, it was the idea of everything else that was supposed to already be in place. 00:05:09.140 --> 00:05:09.939 Totally. 00:05:10.260 --> 00:05:15.700 So when the doctor said that you had a geriatric pregnancy, what was your response to that? 00:05:16.900 --> 00:05:17.540 I don't know. 00:05:17.700 --> 00:05:27.780 You could probably guess that I might have been like a little direct of like, do you think that we could talk about this in a more productive way? 00:05:28.100 --> 00:05:31.060 I think that was like an exact phrasing of it. 00:05:31.140 --> 00:05:34.500 Um, because I was really sick in early pregnancy. 00:05:34.660 --> 00:05:39.460 I mean, like lost a ton of weight, couldn't keep anything down, like very, very sick. 00:05:39.620 --> 00:05:49.780 And so then to hear that like some part of that might be because I'm old, I was like, I'm not like a NBA player who has to retire by 34, right? 00:05:49.860 --> 00:05:51.939 Like it's it's just so interesting. 00:05:52.100 --> 00:05:57.220 But then also out of respect, like for the real risks that can and do occur. 00:05:57.460 --> 00:06:00.260 I just wanted us to be able to stop talking about it like I was old. 00:06:00.340 --> 00:06:07.620 And then I just had to find the right doctor to be able to communicate in a style that worked for me. 00:06:07.939 --> 00:06:12.900 I did feel after that first visit with the first doctor, I was like, oh no, no, no, no, no. 00:06:13.060 --> 00:06:14.740 Because my parents don't live here, right? 00:06:14.820 --> 00:06:18.980 So it's not like I can go out to my mom and have her show me all these things. 00:06:19.140 --> 00:06:26.820 So, like I that I needed a doctor that I could talk to and communicate with that wasn't like lab coat looking down on me, kind of thing. 00:06:27.140 --> 00:06:30.660 I needed, I needed some someone with a heartbeat, you know. 00:06:31.220 --> 00:06:33.460 Yeah, that makes sense, of course. 00:06:33.780 --> 00:06:35.939 Um, yeah, I'm so glad you made that switch too. 00:06:36.020 --> 00:06:40.420 It's so important to feel like you're in good hands, especially during pregnancy. 00:06:41.220 --> 00:06:47.220 Um what did you imagine your first year as a mom would be like? 00:06:50.580 --> 00:06:59.380 That's a tough one, but if if you want me to be really honest, I I've always sort of been uh uh overachiever, right? 00:06:59.700 --> 00:07:04.820 I'm like, oh, I have too much on my plate, and that's the way that I like it. 00:07:05.300 --> 00:07:14.660 I like being busy, I like doing too much that keeps me that keeps me feeling

alive, you know. 00:07:14.980 --> 00:07:20.660 And a therapist might say otherwise, but I will say like uh it does help me. 00:07:20.820 --> 00:07:29.700 And so I thought, oh, I'll go and I'll be like Suzy Homemaker and amazing mom, also have an amazing career. 00:07:29.939 --> 00:07:38.420 Maybe I'll even like I've heard some moms get super creative in their first year of being a parent, so maybe I'll have this creative flow. 00:07:38.820 --> 00:07:48.900 I thought, like, oh, like my child and I are gonna be just Disney movie level of connection and beauty, you know. 00:07:49.140 --> 00:07:57.380 And I thought that I sort of treated it like a task to check off, like a this is a goal that I can achieve. 00:07:57.860 --> 00:07:59.300 And motherhood is nothing like that. 00:07:59.380 --> 00:08:07.860 Like motherhood is like a constant moving through and being like, fail, pivot, fail, pivot. 00:08:08.100 --> 00:08:10.500 Success, glean from that, learn from that. 00:08:10.660 --> 00:08:11.780 There is no end. 00:08:13.380 --> 00:08:16.580 Like there isn't, there isn't even a 15-minute break, right? 00:08:16.740 --> 00:08:18.180 Like it's yeah. 00:08:19.300 --> 00:08:21.620 So let me just get the timeline straight. 00:08:21.780 --> 00:08:24.980 Because you were mentioning about the vision board that you made. 00:08:25.220 --> 00:08:28.500 Was that during pregnancy or was that before pregnancy? 00:08:29.060 --> 00:08:30.660 That was when I was in college. 00:08:31.060 --> 00:08:32.179 Oh, okay, gotcha. 00:08:32.340 --> 00:08:33.139 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:08:33.299 --> 00:08:34.259 I yeah, yeah. 00:08:34.419 --> 00:08:44.659 I went to see like a tarot card reader, and they were like, you should really sort of think about what you want your life to look like, like envision a kind of future for yourself. 00:08:44.980 --> 00:08:59.860 And I had always wanted to sort of have this life that was like painter women or writerly women who sat at their desk while their children ran around and they had coffee, and that being like an equivalent of a cigarette to them, you know. 00:08:59.939 --> 00:09:08.579 And like exist in this world where my children were like free creatures while I was just there trying to like make art and do things. 00:09:08.659 --> 00:09:10.899 And it's not like that, it's not like that at all. 00:09:11.139 --> 00:09:16.259 Like I'm not like that as a human being, and children aren't like that. 00:09:16.659 --> 00:09:25.779 Um, but I do think when I was making that vision board, I was trying to make like a oh, like I want to have a selfhood in my own motherhood, you know? 00:09:25.939 --> 00:09:37.219 Like I want I don't want to be totally, I want to prioritize and put my child first and exist, but I don't want to lose an essential core part of myself in a child. 00:09:37.459 --> 00:09:42.339 It was probably on some level what I was trying to say that I didn't know how to say yet. 00:09:44.500 --> 00:09:57.539 And while you were pregnant, do

you feel like at that point if you were making another vision board that it would have already looked different, or it was during pregnancy, it was still kind of similar to what you had in college? 00:09:58.740 --> 00:10:11.059 I don't know why that makes me emotional, that question, because it's such a simple question, but I think it would be the exact same flipping dream board, yeah, you know, like vision board because it's just what I wanted. 00:10:11.219 --> 00:10:15.939 Like I wanted to have uh artistic life and be a good mom. 00:10:16.419 --> 00:10:31.860 Like that is what I wanted to have my whole life, and so even though 35, 36-year-old me would be much more cynical and rooted in reality and all that, like for a dream I would have done the same one. 00:10:31.939 --> 00:10:32.259 Yeah. 00:10:35.139 --> 00:10:38.819 You touched on this a bit about having sort of a difficult first trimester. 00:10:38.980 --> 00:10:40.579 How was the rest of your pregnancy? 00:10:41.620 --> 00:10:44.339 So the first trimester was really rough. 00:10:44.819 --> 00:10:50.579 I even had to get an endoscopy like down my throat because I was getting so sick so much. 00:10:50.819 --> 00:10:52.259 And then we figured that out. 00:10:52.419 --> 00:11:01.299 And then the last trimester, I ended up sleeping with one of those pillows that goes all the way around you. 00:11:01.379 --> 00:11:04.899 And like the body pillow off of Amazon. 00:11:04.980 --> 00:11:05.219 Yep. 00:11:05.459 --> 00:11:06.019 Did you do one? 00:11:06.100 --> 00:11:06.339 Yeah. 00:11:06.500 --> 00:11:06.899 Oh yeah. 00:11:07.059 --> 00:11:13.139 I had like a pillow fort because there was just I'm sure you remember, there's no position you could ever be comfortable in at that point. 00:11:13.379 --> 00:11:17.939 No, no, and it's like the summer in New York City, get out of here. 00:11:18.179 --> 00:11:27.939 But I was I just remember being like, to my husband, don't unless you're massaging my feet, I need this pillow, like for my you know my pillow, yeah. 00:11:28.179 --> 00:11:36.819 And I became truly one with it because every time I sat down, when people would be like, Oh, let me fill your belly, the baby would never move. 00:11:37.219 --> 00:11:46.500 But then every time it was time for sleepy time, my son was like, It's part of time, and would just be and he stood that way to this day, right? 00:11:46.659 --> 00:11:56.259 Um and so I began to realize, like, oh, I'm gonna lose a lot of sleep in this next period of my life, just in that trimester. 00:11:56.579 --> 00:12:01.939 And then giving birth was just as hard. 00:12:02.419 --> 00:12:05.459 You're saying that your parents live in the different state. 00:12:05.539 --> 00:12:06.740 Are they still back home? 00:12:07.860 --> 00:12:14.179 Um, so did you get a lot of practical advice from your mom after you got pregnant? 00:12:14.500 --> 00:12:21.059 Yeah, I mean, the interesting thing about my mom is my mom and I've never and I have never been

particularly close. 00:12:21.219 --> 00:12:23.699 Like, I'm very similar in demeanor to my father. 00:12:23.779 --> 00:12:25.539 He's very gregarious and all this. 00:12:26.019 --> 00:12:30.579 But my mom, she's a critical care nurse, she worked third shift at the hospital. 00:12:30.740 --> 00:12:36.899 Her dad died when she was 20, so then she took care of her three younger siblings with her mom, like lived at home. 00:12:36.980 --> 00:12:41.139 Everything with my mom is like she would make an amazing producer. 00:12:41.299 --> 00:12:44.259 Um, but it's like she's very like, Did you get this done? 00:12:44.419 --> 00:12:48.819 And I remember being having these feelings as a kid of like, why aren't you more playful? 00:12:48.980 --> 00:12:52.179 I even think my snotty 12-year-old self said that once. 00:12:52.339 --> 00:12:54.819 Like, why aren't you like so-and-so's mom? 00:12:54.899 --> 00:12:56.100 Like, you never play. 00:12:56.419 --> 00:13:10.179 And now I find my mom to be like truly like a a lifeline in a way that I I previously didn't fully realize. 00:13:10.259 --> 00:13:13.779 Like, the laundry was always done, the dishes were always done. 00:13:13.860 --> 00:13:16.339 There was always dinner, there was always lunch. 00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:18.100 You know, I played three different sports. 00:13:18.259 --> 00:13:19.860 I never didn't have my gear. 00:13:20.100 --> 00:13:27.219 Like, my mom had me get a job, not because we needed it financially, but to like teach me to go to work, you know, like all these ways. 00:13:27.299 --> 00:13:32.819 So then when it came time to have a baby, I do think that that was the closest that my mom and I have ever been. 00:13:33.219 --> 00:13:37.779 Because all of a sudden I was like, How did you do this? 00:13:38.100 --> 00:13:38.579 You know? 00:13:40.019 --> 00:13:45.299 How how did you work as a critical care nurse third shift with two small children? 00:13:45.459 --> 00:13:48.579 You know, and I'm alive, you know. 00:13:49.459 --> 00:13:50.100 Totally. 00:13:50.819 --> 00:14:00.819 Having her as a nurse was like on a practical level is great for some questions, but yeah, I definitely talk to my mom more now than I ever have since having my son, for sure. 00:14:01.139 --> 00:14:02.339 That's really wonderful. 00:14:02.500 --> 00:14:03.699 Yeah, that is. 00:14:04.659 --> 00:14:09.059 I do want to hear about your birth story if you feel comfortable going there. 00:14:09.219 --> 00:14:11.299 So you were diagnosed with pre-clampsia. 00:14:11.459 --> 00:14:14.259 Can you talk to us a little bit about that? 00:14:14.659 --> 00:14:15.139 Yeah. 00:14:15.379 --> 00:14:21.539 Basically, I was like working up to I think five, I took off five days before my due date, you know. 00:14:21.779 --> 00:14:24.899 And I'm like this the senior producer of a show and all this stuff. 00:14:25.139 --> 00:14:28.819 And I was going in to record voiceover tracking. 00:14:29.299 --> 00:14:39.379 But on the way in, I was stopped by the doctor because once you get headed into that last trimester, there's more frequent appointments. 00:14:39.539 --> 00:14:39.699 Right. 00:14:40.019 --> 00:14:46.179 And I go in and I was like, okay, you know, I haven't been feeling that great, but uh maybe I just haven't been sleeping well. 00:14:46.339 --> 00:15:00.899 And then the doctor is like, takes my blood pressure, and she's like, You have you need to go home, take a shower, get a nice meal, pack a bag, and you need to go to the hospital like right after that because you're gonna have a baby today. 00:15:01.139 --> 00:15:02.980 And I didn't have a baby that day. 00:15:03.779 --> 00:15:06.339 But so they wanted to induce? 00:15:06.579 --> 00:15:06.819 Yes. 00:15:06.899 --> 00:15:09.779 They were like, You're gonna go and we're gonna induce your labor. 00:15:10.179 --> 00:15:13.379 But I I get there and they start the induction. 00:15:14.579 --> 00:15:18.579 Uh and I don't know what fully I was expecting. 00:15:18.740 --> 00:15:35.059 I certainly wasn't expecting like the Ritz Carleton, but it was like people who you've never met, like all up in your business, you know, and I have an anxiety disorder, and so my shoulders were very tense, I was very stressed out. 00:15:35.219 --> 00:15:40.579 Like, I I'm very big on consent, and so that was pretty stressful. 00:15:40.740 --> 00:15:47.379 But then they start to induce, and I was like, I really want to have a vaginal birth, and they were like, You may have to have a c-section. 00:15:47.620 --> 00:15:53.059 This goes on for three days, they have a mo like monitors all over my belly, all this stuff. 00:15:53.219 --> 00:16:03.779 I at this point I'm in like full-on labor pains, and then my water breaks, but I was like, I really don't want to have a c-section. 00:16:04.100 --> 00:16:08.740 So I was like, Can I get the epidural and we'll try to get to six centimeters? 00:16:09.379 --> 00:16:13.299 Were you alone, or did you have like your partner or any family with you at this time? 00:16:13.539 --> 00:16:14.980 Yeah, my husband was there. 00:16:15.139 --> 00:16:15.379 Okay. 00:16:16.100 --> 00:16:17.699 Did you have a doula or anything? 00:16:18.019 --> 00:16:31.939 Well, the hospital provides a doula, and she came by once a day, and every day I would cry the moment she came into the room because she had this immediate soothing presence. 00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:39.379 You know, and I I used to do a lot of yoga, like I did yoga all all, especially as an anxious person, it really helps me. 00:16:39.699 --> 00:16:50.019 And she just had this super calming energy of like, gave me lavender, would rub like acupuncture points. 00:16:50.179 --> 00:17:03.699 That's just very like I remember at one point she asked if she could give like a compassionate touch, you know, after especially because you're having so much aggressive touch on you to have someone touch you, like with a level of connection involved. 00:17:03.860 --> 00:17:06.500 And then they

they asked if I wanted epidural. 00:17:06.579 --> 00:17:09.779 I got the epidural, and I was like, I promised the epidural didn't work. 00:17:10.019 --> 00:17:18.259 It turns out the epidural uh wasn't in my back at all, and it also happened to the person across the hall from me, the woman across the hall. 00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:31.860 So then I had like a good six hours of full like labor pains, and like I this one nurse kept bringing me ice packs to put on my downstairs, and it was like, I promise I can feel this. 00:17:31.940 --> 00:17:55.220 And they were like, you know, some people have different different pain tolerances, and I was like, no, like, no, like I am a bear, no, and so then finally I get the epidural, and then they were like, okay, you're at like 5.8, and if you don't make it to six within the next two hours, we have to give you a C-section. 00:17:55.540 --> 00:18:02.740 So this one nurse comes in, and she like I can't fill my whole the whole half, bottom half of my body. 00:18:03.140 --> 00:18:14.420 And she starts like flipping me around on an exercise ball, like bending my legs back and forth, like doing all these leg raises with me, doing anything to get me to dilate more, and it doesn't work. 00:18:15.140 --> 00:18:18.180 So you were just 0.2 centimeters away. 00:18:18.420 --> 00:18:18.820 Yeah. 00:18:19.060 --> 00:18:20.420 Like goodness. 00:18:21.140 --> 00:18:27.380 And they were like, the doctor came in and she was like, We're gonna have to do it because you're gonna get a bacteria infection. 00:18:27.540 --> 00:18:29.460 And the baby is upside down now. 00:18:29.700 --> 00:18:32.259 Oh, what was going through your head then? 00:18:33.460 --> 00:18:40.580 I was so angry, you know, like it made me really You were angry. 00:18:40.820 --> 00:18:41.300 Yeah. 00:18:41.620 --> 00:18:54.500 At I was at life, you know, like I you go, you watch all these movies and women show up and they're like carted in going, ah, and then they push it out, and there's a beautiful baby fives, like cut, cut, cut, it's done, you know. 00:18:54.660 --> 00:18:54.980 Right, right. 00:18:55.140 --> 00:19:02.900 And this had been like an exhausting, sleepless, like I felt like a failure the whole time, you know. 00:19:03.060 --> 00:19:07.220 Uh I it was like I can't even, I can't even give birth to my kid right, you know. 00:19:07.460 --> 00:19:11.940 But obviously, I'm like hormonal and sleep deprived in that moment, you know. 00:19:12.019 --> 00:19:17.779 And like I would obviously never speak to another, I would I don't feel this way about any other woman. 00:19:17.860 --> 00:19:20.019 Like, it's just funny what we do to ourselves. 00:19:20.259 --> 00:19:30.740 And they like treat you like it's NASCAR, like inject you with all this stuff, and my husband finally got to come in, and then all of a sudden, like I can't feel anything. 00:19:31.220 --> 00:19:35.380 I'm just I'm crying because I'm so sad. 00:19:36.340 --> 00:19:43.540 And then all of a sudden, I see my son come up through the curtain and I hear him start to cry. 00:19:44.180 --> 00:20:06.660 And they go and they clean him, and then he's still crying, and then they come and they put his face like right next to my face, and he stops crying, and my husband puts his face right on the other side, and it was like the first moment in days where I had felt any like peace. 00:20:07.060 --> 00:20:14.180 Like, like it was it was like it was like this moment of like everything is going wrong, everything is failing. 00:20:14.340 --> 00:20:18.100 I'm and then it was like no no no no no no no no no no. 00:20:18.259 --> 00:20:21.940 It uh who knows why it had to go this way, but it did go this way. 00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:34.100 But we got there, you know, and yeah, so getting to CD, he was so little because he was a month early. 00:20:34.420 --> 00:20:39.779 He was like four and a half pounds, but he was perfect, you know? 00:20:40.100 --> 00:21:03.940 He I'm sorry, he was just so perfect, it was so worth it to throw up for a whole three months to sleep with like a weird gumby figure wrapped around me, you know, like to go to be like tell my boss, like sorry, I can't go to work because I have to go to the hospital right now, to you know, to just like he was perfect. 00:21:04.900 --> 00:21:38.019 I can't help but you know think about what you said before about you being so ambitious and had all these grand plans for yourself and visions, and I when you were talking about that, I was thinking, oh, you know, I can really relate because I've always been searching for perfection too, and and knowing that now I know that there's really like no such thing as perfection. 00:21:38.740 --> 00:21:46.259 But by the same token, if we're more present in life, then every moment could be perfection. 00:21:47.060 --> 00:22:06.100 It just struck me how after this, it's like three or four days of incredibly painful labor for you to arrive at that moment where you you got your fulfillment, you found your perfection in your boy. 00:22:06.340 --> 00:22:08.420 So that's really 00:22:08.980 --> 00:22:09.540 Moving. 00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:12.180 That's in that's incredibly well said, yeah. 00:22:12.500 --> 00:22:13.460 Yeah, well put. 00:22:14.500 --> 00:22:18.500 But what was it like holding your son for the first time? 00:22:21.300 --> 00:22:24.740 I mean, truly, he was so little. 00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:34.660 Like maybe from the tip of my fingers to a little below my wrist, like maybe like halfway down my forearm. 00:22:34.820 --> 00:22:36.820 Like teeny, teeny, tiny. 00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:39.620 I was like, oh my god, you're so breakable. 00:22:40.100 --> 00:22:50.580 But I don't know if you experienced this, but for me, it really was this feeling of like, oh, this is it was like this is part, this came from me. 00:22:50.820 --> 00:22:56.820 I've heard some mothers don't feel that way, but I really had this feeling of like, oh, you lived inside of me.

00:22:56.980 --> 00:22:58.820 Like I have felt you kicking. 00:22:59.060 --> 00:23:00.980 I have felt you punching me. 00:23:01.220 --> 00:23:03.940 I have I all that weird stretch that you do. 00:23:04.019 --> 00:23:08.500 I have felt that every day for a while now. 00:23:08.660 --> 00:23:10.820 I I felt joy. 00:23:11.140 --> 00:23:24.019 I I I felt a lot of of joy that he was okay and that everything had gone to a point that it seemed like it was gonna work out. 00:23:24.180 --> 00:23:35.700 And then I also felt totally and completely like, oh my god, if everything is gonna work out, then I'm gonna have to like really get like pay attention. 00:23:35.860 --> 00:23:46.259 Like it's wake up, like what do you remember most when you first brought him home from the hospital? 00:23:47.300 --> 00:23:50.580 Well, he slept in a bassinet next to our bed. 00:23:50.980 --> 00:23:57.940 And when he first came home, I remember thinking, we need a bigger apartment. 00:23:58.100 --> 00:24:00.740 Uh like another human is here. 00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:02.740 Like that's how I felt. 00:24:02.820 --> 00:24:05.620 Like, it's not like a friend that's coming over for the weekend. 00:24:05.779 --> 00:24:12.340 It's not like a dog sitting, like another life and existence is in here now. 00:24:13.140 --> 00:24:18.420 Was there a moment when you thought this is not at all what I expected? 00:24:19.220 --> 00:24:23.700 I understand now why so many people move close to home when they have a kid. 00:24:23.860 --> 00:24:32.259 Like, isn't there some really wild stat that like so many people have kids and then get closer to where their parents are or their relatives are? 00:24:32.740 --> 00:24:36.820 But we really had Dean 24-7. 00:24:37.220 --> 00:24:38.500 Like, and it was just us. 00:24:38.660 --> 00:24:43.540 Like, unless someone came up to visit, it was just us for those first months. 00:24:43.940 --> 00:25:03.860 And I don't think that I was prepared to have no personal space, like breastfeeding, uh basic hygiene cooking, and there was a lot of beauty with him like laying on me and just growing up and out and expanding. 00:25:04.019 --> 00:25:09.220 But yeah, it was like every time he cries, oh, that's gotta be me or my husband. 00:25:09.380 --> 00:25:12.180 Every time he needs to feed, that's gotta be me or my husband. 00:25:12.340 --> 00:25:15.540 Every time he needs a diaper, like everyone is us. 00:25:15.700 --> 00:25:19.620 And I don't know if it's the frequency of it or just the fatigue thing. 00:25:19.700 --> 00:25:22.019 Now it's like second nature, sure. 00:25:22.180 --> 00:25:22.340 Right? 00:25:22.420 --> 00:25:22.500 Yeah. 00:25:22.660 --> 00:25:29.860 It's like, oh, like, but at first you're like, this is a whole list of things that I don't normally do in a day. 00:25:30.019 --> 00:25:39.300 So I think that was what surprised me is like how often you're like just going through lists in your head when you first have a baby. 00:25:39.620 --> 00:25:42.259 Like,

do you think this baby food will work when we get to that point? 00:25:42.420 --> 00:25:44.180 Do you think that I'm pumping right? 00:25:44.340 --> 00:25:48.180 Should I get the portable pump so I'm not sitting next to the thing the whole time, right? 00:25:48.259 --> 00:25:55.940 Like all these little ways in which he my son became like the center of life. 00:25:56.180 --> 00:25:56.500 Yeah. 00:25:56.820 --> 00:25:59.460 I think I was surprised by. 00:26:00.340 --> 00:26:05.700 How did you uh sort of orchestrate that with your husband, like divvying up the tasks? 00:26:06.500 --> 00:26:11.060 So we would do a thing like rotating who got up each time. 00:26:11.300 --> 00:26:16.500 It was a little less frequent when I was breastfeeding, which I did till he was four months. 00:26:16.980 --> 00:26:23.060 But then we would try even now, if he wakes up, we try to be like, it's your turn. 00:26:23.220 --> 00:26:28.660 You know, like and then the other person just does not move, you know, like like I can't, I can't hear him, you know. 00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:43.220 But then like the other thing is like I went back to work and my husband watched Dean because he was taking a class, working in a class at the time. 00:26:43.540 --> 00:26:56.420 And that was a whole thing to where again I was like, Well like all these things that I wanted, like I wanted to be a working mom, I wanted to be this progressive woman. 00:26:56.580 --> 00:27:04.100 I was like, I don't mind being the breadwinner, and I don't want to do, I'm sorry, kids stuff all day long. 00:27:04.259 --> 00:27:09.140 I don't want to sing wheels on the bus 10 million times a day. 00:27:09.300 --> 00:27:10.100 Sorry, I don't. 00:27:10.740 --> 00:27:21.140 But like there was still this part of me is like, wait, am I a bad mom because I'm the one that went back to work and then my husband's doing the day cycle for these days of the week. 00:27:21.300 --> 00:27:27.940 So that that was like the I would say the main responsibility shift and even stress her, I would say. 00:27:28.100 --> 00:27:31.060 And that's when I was like, oh, I understand my mom now. 00:27:31.620 --> 00:27:32.420 Right, right. 00:27:32.500 --> 00:27:42.420 Like, like, oh, I'm sure my mom would have loved to stay home and baked cakes and like hung out and fold the laundry and do all that stuff. 00:27:42.500 --> 00:27:46.820 But instead, she was like, oh no, I have to go make money and work and have health insurance. 00:27:47.460 --> 00:27:52.259 And having that allowed me to be like forgiving of myself. 00:27:52.500 --> 00:28:04.660 And then like also at the same time, like have some empathy for my husband who is like in the slog of a little, little baby, like all the time, and being like, How can I help you? 00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:05.779 How can I support you? 00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:14.740 Like, like I I know I've been at work for eight hours, but like how just figuring out how our relationship worked took a little bit of time. 00:28:15.700 --> 00:28:16.180 Sure. 00:28:16.420 --> 00:28:17.620 Thank you for sharing that. 00:28:17.700 --> 00:28:19.779 I just want to say I'm also like that. 00:28:20.019 --> 00:28:23.779 I have felt very guilty that I don't want to sit on the floor with my daughter for hours. 00:28:23.940 --> 00:28:27.380 I actually get really nervous when I have a lot of free time with her. 00:28:27.540 --> 00:28:34.500 We go on a lot of walks and go to a lot of playgrounds and a lot of libraries because I can't do it. 00:28:34.580 --> 00:28:38.100 I can play for like 20 minutes and then like we gotta leave the house. 00:28:38.180 --> 00:28:38.740 We gotta get up. 00:28:38.820 --> 00:28:40.820 We gotta go do something because I can't. 00:28:40.900 --> 00:28:44.420 And my husband is like, he would play with her four hours. 00:28:44.660 --> 00:28:44.980 Yeah. 00:28:45.140 --> 00:28:49.060 So pretend pretend is not my thing. 00:28:49.220 --> 00:29:00.420 Like and it's so funny karmically because I remember one time when I was a kid, my mom was like, Do you want to make paper towel dresses for your Barbies? 00:29:00.580 --> 00:29:02.019 And we'll color them and we'll make them. 00:29:02.100 --> 00:29:05.940 And she was like, It would be a fun little craft, you know, and we can use construction paper and stuff. 00:29:06.180 --> 00:29:14.580 I was like, Cool, like we played like that, like it's a distinct moment of my mom sitting down and playing with me. 00:29:14.820 --> 00:29:21.540 And now I'm like, we have blown bubbles for so long. 00:29:22.420 --> 00:29:43.700 You know, and then there is still every time in the bubble session, one bubble that he pops or one joy and beauty that he like presents and admires that it was like it keeps me there, like even though there's another level that's like very over it for sure. 00:29:44.420 --> 00:29:59.940 I was just wondering because Katie, you were saying before about how you always wanted to preserve the sense of self, even in motherhood, you know, it was very important to you to still have a sense of self. 00:30:00.500 --> 00:30:12.500 So I'm curious, looking back to the first year of having Dean, how did your sense of self change during that first year? 00:30:14.900 --> 00:30:31.140 You know, at first I was trying to get back to like who I was, you know, like as if this giant life event had not occurred, as if this other human being wasn't present. 00:30:32.100 --> 00:30:35.700 And I did have postpartum depression. 00:30:35.940 --> 00:30:39.460 Um but was that during the first year? 00:30:39.700 --> 00:30:40.100 Yeah. 00:30:40.340 --> 00:30:41.140 Oh wow, okay. 00:30:41.380 --> 00:30:52.180 But I will say that in time, and maybe this wasn't until the end of the first year that I realized like what I had been fighting was like an expansion of myself. 00:30:52.420 --> 00:31:06.420 Like motherhood has allowed me to have all of these new elements of myself, which is caring for who a person wants to become, how they

behave in the world. 00:31:06.900 --> 00:31:12.340 I feel politically rejuvenated, I feel community-minded more. 00:31:12.580 --> 00:31:22.660 I actually feel my son has done an incredible job of showing me that one of the best ways that you can keep a sense of self is by being aware of others, right? 00:31:22.820 --> 00:31:26.660 It's like, how is my son interacting with these other people? 00:31:26.820 --> 00:31:28.580 How how are we with our neighbors? 00:31:28.740 --> 00:31:30.019 How is this, this, and this? 00:31:30.180 --> 00:31:34.660 It's just expanded the self, I think, in a way I wasn't expecting. 00:31:34.900 --> 00:31:39.620 It also has made being aware, like, what kind of role model am I? 00:31:39.779 --> 00:31:41.460 What kind of person am I? 00:31:41.620 --> 00:31:43.779 What kind of example am I? 00:31:44.019 --> 00:31:47.460 Like, am I teaching my kid the joy of cooking? 00:31:47.620 --> 00:31:55.060 Am I to teach my but when they're little, little, it's like, am I just teaching this child how to say please? 00:31:55.460 --> 00:32:03.300 Yeah, like am I just teaching this kid to feel empathy and bad when they swat or pull hair or throw something? 00:32:03.460 --> 00:32:09.779 You know, it's like you get really back into like the little parts of what make us who we are. 00:32:10.100 --> 00:32:10.740 Yeah. 00:32:11.300 --> 00:32:14.500 You mentioned that you had postpartum. 00:32:14.740 --> 00:32:17.779 Would you be comfortable opening up about that? 00:32:18.019 --> 00:32:19.540 Were you diagnosed? 00:32:19.700 --> 00:32:21.700 And what was that experience like? 00:32:22.100 --> 00:32:28.019 Yeah, I can't recommend therapy enough for all the people of the of the world. 00:32:28.180 --> 00:32:42.259 Um, but I will say, like I've always had like anxiety and depression, but then my feeling was constantly like a hyper fixation that I was going to screw up my kid. 00:32:42.500 --> 00:32:44.740 You know, like he might die in his sleep. 00:32:44.900 --> 00:32:46.740 I might have fed him the wrong thing. 00:32:46.980 --> 00:32:51.700 I I like didn't I was just like constantly afraid that he was gonna die. 00:32:52.180 --> 00:32:55.220 And so I think that's really where the root of it was. 00:32:55.380 --> 00:33:02.900 And that's when I was diagnosed with Did these feelings happen right away, like as soon as you brought him home, or did it happen after a few weeks or five years? 00:33:03.140 --> 00:33:04.740 I would say after about two weeks. 00:33:04.980 --> 00:33:05.300 Okay. 00:33:05.540 --> 00:33:15.540 Because when he first came home, I just had a C-section and I really didn't do much other than like go to the bathroom and eat and breastfeed. 00:33:15.700 --> 00:33:17.540 I was like s sore. 00:33:18.180 --> 00:33:32.180 And then I just remember having this feeling once like being so tired and so sleep deprived of just like I have to keep myself awake or my husband's gonna have to do it. 00:33:32.340 --> 00:33:38.500 But then like what if he rolls over and I'm not I haven't been paying attention at night? 00:33:38.660 --> 00:33:49.060 Like, w what if somehow he gets out of the swaddle and you know, I it was just like heightened, it was like my anxiety like heightened up to where it became depressive. 00:33:49.300 --> 00:33:58.820 And it was very helpful to talk to a therapist and take medication, like it it was. 00:33:59.060 --> 00:34:16.019 I'm not gonna say otherwise, of just like to realize they're having like all these intrusive thoughts of like, what if I didn't put the car seat in right and you know, we're going the wrong way, or what if all of a sudden we're like in a stroller but we're too close to the curb, you know. 00:34:16.259 --> 00:34:21.139 And everything was about like what if something happens to Dean is really what was happening for me. 00:34:21.379 --> 00:34:21.779 Yeah. 00:34:22.019 --> 00:34:25.299 And how did that depression manifest itself? 00:34:25.859 --> 00:34:32.339 The biggest ways it would come up is just like, okay, now it's time for me to go to sleep, and I can't do it. 00:34:32.500 --> 00:34:36.819 Like I'm so tired, and I'm like, oh, I didn't clean that bottle right. 00:34:36.899 --> 00:34:41.139 Like, what if there's bacteria in that bottle and like I didn't sterilize it right? 00:34:41.299 --> 00:34:42.019 Like, right. 00:34:42.339 --> 00:34:51.859 What if when we try to do the little inflatable bath, like he slips or something, or like rolls off, like when I'm trying to change him on the changing table? 00:34:51.940 --> 00:34:57.539 Like the voice in my head saying, Don't screw it up, was like in F1. 00:34:57.940 --> 00:35:04.420 Way too fast for anything to be pleasurable, for anything to be nothing felt joyful for about a month. 00:35:04.500 --> 00:35:06.980 And I was like, I gotta talk to my therapist. 00:35:07.139 --> 00:35:10.579 Like, I everything feels intense and stressful. 00:35:10.739 --> 00:35:14.659 And I was like, I I don't think this is how everybody feels. 00:35:15.539 --> 00:35:31.940 I'm glad you reached out and found the help that you needed during that time because I feel like it's not everyone has that, but it can be hard during those first few weeks and months to ask for help, you know, because you're just trying to keep someone alive. 00:35:32.179 --> 00:35:37.139 So you're doing the time to have someone take care of me, you know. 00:35:37.460 --> 00:35:42.819 Yeah, or even to be aware that uh that you need to ask for help, right? 00:35:43.219 --> 00:35:43.859 For sure. 00:35:44.179 --> 00:35:57.460 I think the most incredible thing was there's like a hospital resource they gave us that was you could get on a Zoom with some woman who would teach you how to breastfeed, actually. 00:35:57.699 --> 00:36:06.739 And you wouldn't show her anything, but she would like talk you through like how much milk did he take here, how frequently is he taking it, how much are you producing, like all this. 00:36:07.139 -->

00:36:29.940 And whoever that woman was, like she was so nice to me and so kind to me and so patient with me as I'm like freaking out about ounces and this and that and she was like, You may want to consider like talking to somebody about these feelings, you know, because some of it's stressful, but you are doing a great job, like you're doing a good job. 00:36:30.179 --> 00:36:32.339 And I'm like, No, I'm not, I'm doing a terrible job. 00:36:33.059 --> 00:36:39.779 Like, that's when I started to turn a corner, was when I was like freaking out on a zoom, like so close to the camera. 00:36:39.940 --> 00:36:41.219 Like, can you see? 00:36:41.299 --> 00:36:42.899 Like, what if he doesn't get up to here? 00:36:43.059 --> 00:36:43.779 You know, like that. 00:36:43.859 --> 00:36:44.899 Yeah, yeah. 00:36:45.619 --> 00:36:49.379 I'd love to talk about some of the highlights and the joys of the first year. 00:36:49.619 --> 00:36:54.659 What were some of the unexpected joys that you experienced in that first year with Dean? 00:36:55.859 --> 00:36:56.500 Sure. 00:36:58.420 --> 00:37:21.059 I will say the most, maybe the most unexpected was how much as not a morning person, like truly pre-my Sun, my husband would get up and do things, and I would be like, I'm reading a book in bed, sitting, sipping my coffee. 00:37:21.139 --> 00:37:22.099 Don't speak to me. 00:37:22.339 --> 00:37:25.699 The most unexpected joy would be sitting like in the rocker. 00:37:25.859 --> 00:37:34.259 The sun hasn't even come up yet, like it's like about to come up, and then I'm just like starting the day before anybody in New York City is moving, you know. 00:37:34.500 --> 00:37:35.539 I've like that one. 00:37:35.940 --> 00:37:36.500 That is the best. 00:37:36.899 --> 00:37:41.460 Oh, that is still my joy every single day when I'm up before everyone else. 00:37:41.859 --> 00:37:43.460 But were you a morning person before? 00:37:43.699 --> 00:37:44.339 I was, yeah. 00:37:44.659 --> 00:37:45.539 Oh, cheetahs. 00:37:45.619 --> 00:37:45.779 Yeah. 00:37:46.420 --> 00:37:46.659 Yeah. 00:37:47.539 --> 00:37:47.940 Yeah. 00:37:48.099 --> 00:37:50.259 It is such an amazing thing though, right? 00:37:50.420 --> 00:37:51.779 Like, yes. 00:37:52.179 --> 00:37:54.980 The stillness that you don't get the rest of the day. 00:37:55.299 --> 00:37:55.940 Absolutely. 00:37:56.019 --> 00:37:56.179 Yeah. 00:37:56.259 --> 00:37:56.579 Yeah. 00:37:56.980 --> 00:38:01.699 And then maybe my most fun memory with Dean, I mean, there's so many. 00:38:01.779 --> 00:38:03.379 Like, that's a hard one. 00:38:03.539 --> 00:38:18.339 Like, every time they start to do something for the first time, whether it's like really look at you or say mom for the first time, or drink out of a sippy cup for the first time, or want to stick their hand out of the stroller for you to hold their hand. 00:38:18.659 --> 00:38:23.299 Like, there's all these little moments where you're like, it's working. 00:38:23.460 --> 00:38:29.539

Like, motherhood is working, you know, instead of just feeling like you're giving and giving and giving and giving. 00:38:29.699 --> 00:38:36.259 And then they're so wonderful how they now he's of an age where he runs back, runs to you and hugs you like giant. 00:38:36.579 --> 00:38:37.219 Oh, that's the best. 00:38:37.460 --> 00:38:38.420 How old is he now? 00:38:38.739 --> 00:38:39.460 21 months. 00:38:39.619 --> 00:38:43.539 Okay, I'm just wanting, I'm I'm trying to track when I can expect that. 00:38:43.779 --> 00:38:44.019 Yeah. 00:38:44.179 --> 00:38:52.739 21 months, literally running around the house yesterday going, and because up until that point, you're like, do you even like me? 00:38:52.899 --> 00:38:53.379 You know? 00:38:56.980 --> 00:38:59.859 Yeah, it's really nice to get that physical validation. 00:39:00.019 --> 00:39:00.259 Yeah. 00:39:00.339 --> 00:39:00.659 Yeah. 00:39:00.899 --> 00:39:13.299 I'm curious, in those first few months, is there like a sound or some sort of noise or song or something that would kind of define those first few months that kind of stands out for you? 00:39:14.339 --> 00:39:15.219 For sure. 00:39:15.379 --> 00:39:18.899 I mean, we made up this silly, silly song that I've that. 00:39:19.299 --> 00:39:20.019 We want to hear it. 00:39:20.179 --> 00:39:21.379 No, it's no good though. 00:39:21.539 --> 00:39:28.739 No, it's really like, truly, like, I'm like, oh my God, he's gonna be like a huge mama's boy in college, and I'm gonna have to like go and deal with it. 00:39:28.899 --> 00:39:32.339 But it's like uh, it's like who's a little baby boy? 00:39:32.659 --> 00:39:40.739 Dean's a little baby boy, who's a little baby boy, Dean's a little baby boy. 00:39:41.059 --> 00:39:47.699 And you you would sing it over and over and over again, and after about 10 minutes, he'd just pass out. 00:39:48.179 --> 00:39:53.619 But like tired me was like, what are the worst lyrics I could come up with in this time? 00:39:54.019 --> 00:39:58.420 Um and then white noise, that's another thing too. 00:39:58.579 --> 00:40:08.179 Before I met my husband, I never slept with any sound, and then my husband likes to have the TV on low at night, and then I always every night he falls asleep, I turn it off. 00:40:08.339 --> 00:40:13.539 Like that's but now there's just always white noise, you know? 00:40:14.019 --> 00:40:15.219 Our house too, yep. 00:40:15.619 --> 00:40:22.579 Constant in her bedroom, and I use it at night too, because it also kind of dulls some of the noises she makes. 00:40:22.739 --> 00:40:27.379 Because they're just noisy, babies are noisy, so I am white noise everywhere. 00:40:27.699 --> 00:40:28.899 Yeah, totally. 00:40:29.299 --> 00:40:37.859 I don't know what that means, but my previous temperament could have never been able to stand like a dull sound, and now I'm like, please block it out. 00:40:37.940 --> 00:40:44.339 Actually, I actually worked on like a whole episode about how white noise became a thing because I was using white noise so much. 00:40:44.739 --> 00:40:49.619 I did want to hear a little bit more about your relationship with your husband. 00:40:49.779 --> 00:41:03.940 It's so helpful to have a partner who takes on a lot of the responsibilities for caring for your son, especially when you wanted to get back to work whenever there's an opportunity. 00:41:04.179 --> 00:41:13.219 So just very curious to hear more about how your relationship has evolved since Dean was born. 00:41:14.099 --> 00:41:26.259 Yeah, I would say no relationship has been more impacted by having a kid than my relationship to my spouse, right? 00:41:26.980 --> 00:41:28.259 We're both dreamers. 00:41:28.500 --> 00:41:31.779 He's like an artistic person, I'm an artistic person. 00:41:32.019 --> 00:41:35.859 We're like, oh, just jump and figure it out on the way down, kind of people. 00:41:36.099 --> 00:41:39.219 And that makes it amazing for falling in love, right? 00:41:39.460 --> 00:41:42.179 And that makes it amazing for being in love. 00:41:42.339 --> 00:41:53.379 And that also makes it amazing when you are like who's gonna get the grocery, like when you're in the nitty-gritty to have some of that there. 00:41:54.819 --> 00:41:59.940 But I will say, like, I don't think I fully realized like how much we used to do. 00:42:00.019 --> 00:42:06.659 Like, we would go on trips together, we would go hiking together, we would go to the movies together, we went to concerts together all the time. 00:42:06.819 --> 00:42:09.460 Like we were like, how do we get out of the house? 00:42:09.619 --> 00:42:15.219 Like, let's go be in the world, let's go try this restaurant, let's go try this art exhibit, let's go. 00:42:15.379 --> 00:42:18.179 And a baby is not having any of that. 00:42:19.379 --> 00:42:19.699 Right? 00:42:19.940 --> 00:42:23.859 Like when they're a blob blob, they can do it with you maybe for an hour or two, right? 00:42:24.579 --> 00:42:28.099 But a baby wants to be home for naps and things. 00:42:28.420 --> 00:42:38.259 And then it was in that moment where two people who love to be free, like really had to be like, okay, you do this, then you do this. 00:42:38.500 --> 00:42:43.859 I think that was probably that was the most challenging, remains the most challenging part. 00:42:44.019 --> 00:42:49.299 And they also say, like, your relationship uh strains when you have younger children. 00:42:49.460 --> 00:42:50.659 That's like a fact. 00:42:51.059 --> 00:43:07.460 But I will say that why I love my husband is because he is not afraid to let me be myself, like it does not emasculate him to stay home with our son. 00:43:08.179 --> 00:43:09.940 I find that very attractive. 00:43:10.420 --> 00:43:14.099 Yeah, that's probably one of the most masculine qualities that I've done. 00:43:14.420 --> 00:43:15.859 Totally, totally, yeah. 00:43:16.099 --> 00:43:28.739 And like what was incredible was I think he went through like his own kind of like postpartum period of like,

whoa, there's a kid here all the time now, and I can't really talk to it, and I can't really interact with it. 00:43:28.980 --> 00:43:36.019 I'm trying to get some signs from it, like, you know, and then it's like day in and day out of like, is it working? 00:43:36.259 --> 00:43:38.659 Like, I I have a lot of love for that. 00:43:38.819 --> 00:43:59.619 And then also I have a very significant memory when I was giving birth, and they were about to put the epidural on my back for the second time, and just tears like running down my face because I was so tired and in so much pain, and he put his forehead on my forehead, and it was like, Oh, like this is my husband. 00:44:00.099 --> 00:44:08.179 You know, like we're gonna have a baby together, and we you know, we fail each other in ways, but in the most important. 00:44:11.299 --> 00:44:17.379 And having a child like reveals that, you know, having a child is not a way to cover up friction. 00:44:17.779 --> 00:44:31.299 But I will say that the love and the beauty and the joy of being with my husband since we've had a child comes from the fact that it's like we are the only two people who have experienced this. 00:44:32.179 --> 00:44:39.059 Again, it's the same thing, like billions of babies are born and all this, but we're the we are the two parents of Dean. 00:44:39.699 --> 00:44:44.179 Like, and we we were there when he was making me sick. 00:44:44.420 --> 00:44:50.339 We were there when we were worried he wasn't gonna be born okay, and we had to get him out immediately. 00:44:50.659 --> 00:44:54.980 And you we were there when he explode pooped on the wall. 00:44:59.059 --> 00:45:03.539 We were there, and that keeps you there when you're like, well, why don't you do the dishes today? 00:45:03.859 --> 00:45:08.819 When you're like in the like who's who's pulling what weight here, you know? 00:45:09.059 --> 00:45:18.339 Um, of just like when you zoom out, you're like, this is the person who has shared this child with me. 00:45:18.500 --> 00:45:21.139 And I feel incredibly lucky for that. 00:45:21.219 --> 00:45:21.859 Yeah. 00:45:22.179 --> 00:45:24.899 I actually I I want to ask a little bit about your work. 00:45:25.059 --> 00:45:27.940 How was that transition for you going back to work? 00:45:28.420 --> 00:45:30.819 The literally the day I showed up that gave me an assignment. 00:45:30.980 --> 00:45:35.619 Like it was though, like And were you like give it to me, or were you like, no, this is work. 00:45:35.699 --> 00:45:42.899 Oh it wasn't like give it to me, because I did get to a point where I was like, oh, I can't wait to go and like have an adult conversation. 00:45:43.059 --> 00:45:51.379 I don't wear clothes that are not covered in baby food, and like be like on a quest to find a good story and be pitching and doing all this stuff. 00:45:51.539 --> 00:46:05.059 But the most radical thing for me about going back to work is that it felt like work was still work, like it was its engine, but so much had happened to me, and we were never gonna get into any of it. 00:46:05.379 --> 00:46:06.259 You know what I mean? 00:46:06.420 --> 00:46:10.500 Because it's like boundaries and all that stuff, and it's not what they're paying you to do. 00:46:10.739 --> 00:46:19.299 That was the weirdest thing was that I went back to work and I knew I couldn't be a like a workhorse, you know. 00:46:19.460 --> 00:46:25.139 I knew that I had other things to do now, because I was so used to like 5 a.m. 00:46:25.299 --> 00:46:34.500 getting up, oh I'll finish this thing, you know, or oh, I maybe I'll work really late tonight, or oh, it's just what's one hour on this Sunday that I go cut this thing, you know? 00:46:34.659 --> 00:46:37.779 And then all of a sudden it was like, no, I have to have hard boundaries. 00:46:37.940 --> 00:46:38.579 Yeah. 00:46:39.059 --> 00:46:43.859 So I would say going back to work was a double-edged sword. 00:46:44.099 --> 00:46:49.139 But then I I don't know about you, but I had a lot of brain fog too. 00:46:49.219 --> 00:47:01.940 Like I remember like misspelling things quite a few times when I first went back because I just hadn't sat at a laptop very much in four months and like been a person like that. 00:47:02.179 --> 00:47:05.379 It was like I just existed in Babyland. 00:47:06.179 --> 00:47:10.019 So yeah, that was that was sort of the the thing. 00:47:10.179 --> 00:47:15.299 And then maybe about a week or two of that, then I was like, oh I'm at work. 00:47:15.539 --> 00:47:21.379 But I was I would say like I found like the work came like the time again. 00:47:21.779 --> 00:47:27.619 But I would say that first week back, I wanted to be like on mute and be like, you'll never get it. 00:47:27.859 --> 00:47:30.259 You know, and then just and then just mute back. 00:47:35.299 --> 00:47:38.980 So Katie, just to wrap this up, one one last question. 00:47:39.940 --> 00:47:54.339 If you think back to your first year, and if there's a moment where you could just talk to Dean where he could actually hear and understand you, what would you want to say to him? 00:47:55.460 --> 00:48:04.819 I guess I would probably say something like I have no idea how you get to do this life with us. 00:48:05.059 --> 00:48:24.659 You know, like how of all all the of all the places in all the world, you know, but uh in in all sincerity, like I want you to be safe, I want you to be loved, I want you to be happy, and I want you to know that part of the whole thing about parenthood is that I'm probably gonna get it wrong. 00:48:24.739 --> 00:48:27.059 Your dad and I are probably gonna get stuff wrong. 00:48:27.539 --> 00:48:35.859 I mean, we will, but we love you, and we hope that you always know that. 00:48:36.019 --> 00:48:42.819 And I just don't want you to ever you're you're gonna feel loneliness, but I don't want you to ever feel alone. 00:48:49.219 --> 00:48:54.659 My first year as a mother is an original Sophia Media production created by Sophia. 00:48:55.299 --> 00:49:06.179 This episode was produced by senior producer Samira Tazari with creative direction by Shireen Anderson and co hosted by Sophia and me, Casey Georgie. 00:49:06.579 --> 00:49:07.779 Thanks for listening. 00:49:08.019 --> 00:49:20.420 Check out our website at Sophia Media.co slash my first year for more episodes and other shows in my first year series, and for social links where you can join our online community.