This episode involves a frank conversation about sexuality and sexual harm. While we feel it’s an amazing, and incredibly important conversation, listener discretion is advised.


Jackie Rotman is the Founder of Everybody Dance Now!; a national youth development organization. At age 14, she began using hip hop dancing culture as a tool for self-empowerment for young people. Jackie also served as the Executive Director of Spark; a philanthropic network of millennials focused on gender equality. She frequently speaks about social entrepreneurship, women's rights, and how to effectively engage millennials in philanthropy and social impact. Currently, Jackie is a concurrent MBA student at Stanford and an NPA student at Harvard Kennedy School.

After a traumatic event, Jackie shifted her focus to helping survivors of sexual harm and advocating for sexual empowerment for women. It’s those topics we’ll be discussing in detail today.

What you’ll hear in this episode:

  • The two recent projects Jackie’s been working on related to sexual empowerment for women and surviving sexual harm
  • What is restorative justice?
  • How Jackie is working to close the orgasm gap and help women feel empowered in their sexuality
  • The correlation between rape culture and female sexual empowerment
  • The events that led Jackie to eventually begin her work around sexual harm, female sexual empowerment
  • Jackie’s belief that we can’t rely on external factors to help us heal from sexual harm
  • What sexual empowerment means to Jackie and how it’s been a part of her personal journey
  • Jackie’s thoughts on the #MeToo Movement
  • Why we need to destigmatize sex

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00:00:06Before we get started with the episode of they're just a couple of announcements would like to make the first is a content warning this episode involves a frank conversation about sexuality and sexual harm while we feel it's an amazing and incredibly important conversation within her discretion is advised
00:00:26the second is that at the time of this recording our interview e jackie rodman was co leading a young advocacy network called s a j e working to transform systems and options for responding to sexual assault response and preventing repeat offenses Since the time of this recording jackie
00:00:46met with the founder of another campaign that had just been started at the time called in my words jackie has decided to join forces with that campaign instead of doing this work under the name of s a j g hash tag in my words is a youth led
00:01:01campaign that advocates to create more options for responding to sexual harm demanding institutional responses that prioritized both justice and healing not one at the expense of the other toa learn more and to join the movement you can visit in my words movement dot ward and that concludes our
00:01:19announcements with that let's jump into the episode hello and welcome to the motivational millennial podcast where we interview inspiring members of the millennial generation who are living life with a sense of purpose and achieving their dreams i'm blake brandis and i'm ivy leclair motivational millennial guest today is
00:01:37jackie rahman jackie is the founder and board chair of everybody dance now a national youth development organization she began at age fourteen using hip hop dancing culture as a tool for self empowerment for young people Currently jackie is a concurrent mba student at stanford and an mp a
00:01:54student at harvard kennedy school previously jackie served as executive director of spark a philanthropic network of millennials focused on gender equality She frequently speaks about social entrepreneurship women's rights and how to effectively engage millennials and philanthropy and social impact Jackie welcome to the show thank you so much
00:02:14i'm so happy to be on the podcast and i loved that book so they've listen to so i'm really happy to talk with you both oh thank you so much we appreciate that and yeah you've connected us already with some of our favorite guests as well so we
00:02:27appreciate that and so glad that you are finally here with us to and we'd love to hear more about what you're up to at the moment and why you feel so passionately about it Yeah as you said in the concurrent graduate students so i am getting my mba
00:02:43at stanford and also studying policy at the harvard kennedy school but i'm working on a few different social ventures one you talked about already it's everybody else now which i started over a decade ago which uses hip hop dance as a tool for self empowerment for young people
00:03:01So it started as a new fund organization and it's still going under phenomenal leadership We're in new york california chicago and a few other places and i love that because i've always been a dancer I think that the arts have the power to create tremendous social change it's
00:03:21been really fulfilling to start an organization that continues under other people's leadership and evolves and has been sustainable So i'm involved with that as a board chair in a volunteer capacity and then an excited of in the past year i started tio so the couple of new ventures
00:03:38that are more related tio intimacy justice and combating sexual harm One of them is a nonprofit and then one is the very early stages of more of that type of business warrant adventure But the first is called survivors and allies for justice and empowerment and working with six
00:03:56amazing women from several different states it's a founding team that's majority women of color and almost all survivors of sexual harm and crosses different sexual orientations And we are working to build an organizing network of students and alumni that survivor driven that will advocate to have restorative justice
00:04:20be an option that can be offered on college campuses and responding to sexual harm and preventing future harm right now the options for reporting sexual assault are very limited you can either go through the criminal system you can go through very adversarial campus processes or you can do
00:04:38nothing and most people choose not to report which is a choice that i respect completely so i think about ninety five percent of survivors don't report and those that go through these systems they tend to be very traumatizing and don't necessarily meet survivors needs or actually solve the
00:04:57problem or make communities safer restorative justice is a different way of responding to harm so you know our current legal process is often ask was ah law violated or was a policy violated and it's so what's the punishment where is the story of justice asks what harms have
00:05:15been created emotional physical spiritual financial and how can we actually rectify those harms and restore them and work as a community to prevent that harm from happening so and the sexual harm context that can be restorative conference saying where you can actually have a survivor in the room
00:05:34with someone who's harmed her and with other community members and work that out and it it would only be done if it's voluntary for both parties and it starts with an admission of harm rather than you know spending six months arguing over whether something happened it actually starts
00:05:49with the person you cause the harm taking responsibility and inhaling it from there So we think that can be a really powerful way for some people who want to go through it to respond to this which is important because ninety percent of campus rape happens by repeat offenders
00:06:06sixty percent of that could be stopped if they were stopped after their first attempt But given that the vast majority of people never reported never feel like the existing reporting structures work for them we're not seeing not change or those responses that could prevent the repeat armed so
00:06:24that's one of things working on and then very briefly i'm in the really early stages of thinking about innovative financing models that can also fund entrepreneurs that are supporting women's sexual empowerment because we talked about sexual harm and that's become something that we're comfortable talking about in society
00:06:42recently with me she campaign which is great but there's also so many other aspects and sexuality and justice and equality which also includes pleasure and the way is that you know we can close orgasm gap and create more power experiences for women or on sexuality as well so
00:07:00i'm interested in how can you find market based approaches and businesses that can support those kinds of at least so long is because of working on a few different things but is there some of the passions that i have right out I mean that's so incredible and it's
00:07:17such unimportant topic and i can see how in our society we have and i don't even want to say in my opinion we have a rape culture and you know part of that is the way that we allow and tolerate the behavior and objectification of women and for
00:07:39example you know there's been a lot of high profile cases talking about sexual assault right now which is great on one hand and that it's bringing a light to it But you know in a conversation with someone they said well that's just the way men are on and
00:07:55i'm like well that is the exact issue here like we're highlighting the fact that this has been normalized in a really un cool way and un cool is totally understanding and i like agree just way how about that But but also i really appreciate that you're bringing in
00:08:13the and i guess sexual empower ment piece right Because it's not on lee that you know women are objectified to be sort of objects for men's pleasure but also women even having a pleasure is is also diminished so i think it's like it's a really important work that
00:08:31that goes together and sort of serving similar goals and i think it's really awesome and brave and i feel really passionate about it just couldn't talk to you about that so i think that's really great yeah it's the last talked about it and i think i think they're
00:08:46so connected because i think in the last year i've thought a lot about in some ways it felt like you know finding rape culture felt completely different than you know thinking about the positive aspects of how sexuality can be a source of empowerment and strength and joy and
00:09:00connection to and they felt like it is stark differences but i think they're so interconnected for example that when i think about shame i think about how because our culture is oftentimes really silent around issues on sexuality people always talk about it and there could be a lot
00:09:16of shame around it and that shame is often used by perpetrators of sexual violence to control victims and get them to not report And i heard someone in cindy gallop talking about it was just the way the first time i was thinking about that they wrapped the link
00:09:32but when you ask people why they don't report the surveys show that the number one reason why survivors don't report is that they feel embarrassed and ashamed even though you know someone else has caused this harmon someone else has acted wrong but i think that a big and
00:09:46figure out ways of talking about sexuality and what ways that are more healthy And i do think that that shame is linked with the violence and when you were talking earlier i was thinking about the fact that or the idea that because we're seeing all these egregious cases
00:09:59of individuals but with the cultural backdrop of rape culture and all these ladies that it's ingrained in our culture and i did this wonderful trading last summer i took last summer to just think all somewhere about restorative justice in the context of sexual harm and i did some
00:10:14really interesting trainings one of them combined gandhi in at and like martin luther king was views of nonviolence in thinking about how to address social issues and there was a lesson that i love which talks about how we often have anger at individuals and people but we have
00:10:35we're more apathetic around the conditions so we might think you know i feel so bad that this person is poor rather than being angry at poverty or we're so angry at individuals who are perpetuating sexual home as we should be but we don't address the underlying cultural issues
00:10:54and rape culture and so it talks about ok we need to flip those two so that you can have compassion toward individuals that go after the underlying conditions and structural issues and i think that a lot of that has to do with our cultural conversations of you know
00:11:10how we educate people and you know how sexuality is depicted in our media and our movie is and in so many broader issues as well as institutional issues and law and policy and it can be easy to just focus on individual cases but we're all swimming and agriculture
00:11:28and in these harmful isn't it it's not just men it's also you know women are it's just a part of a culture backdrop and so women engaged in fiction blaming and we're all immerse in it so anyway there's a depressing liam putting it but i was thinking about
00:11:44that we were talking and thinking about you know how do you go after the conditions Well having compassion for individuals and and really getting to the root issues Well i think that that's such an important and brave thing that you are doing you know that become has become
00:12:00so important to you and i would love to hear about how these issues became such an important part of your life Yeah definitely so i started graduate school last year i was twenty five and my sister was just entering college and i always was terrified for her going
00:12:21into college because you hear about the statistics now around sexual herman college campuses one in four women a sexually assaulted during college the numbers are higher for women of that age who aren't in college and i went in ten women while they're in colleges is raped the forcible
00:12:39penetration and so i got to college and i was like concerns around undergrads once it's over her and it didn't really occur to me that i would face this harm when i was a graduate student but while i was getting my masters in public administration at harvard i
00:12:55ve sexual violence and i had to go through this amount pain when i was twenty five at the time and i have never experienced so much pain as i did in the weeks following i mean you hear the statistics of how high like suicide rates are parade survivors
00:13:16and a lot of people don't know that the largest population of people with ptsd and the country is is rape survivors and you think of it as other groups partly because rape survivors they're suffering oftentimes in silence because of the issues around shame and the ways that this
00:13:32is seeing and victim blaming but i just i mean it was very painful responding in the aftermath to the assault and i would you know my education was affected and so many office of my life were affected and i went from being this incredibly happy person person my
00:13:48educational dreams too you often making out from my sleep like screaming out with tears are on my pillows or there were times that i had to physically like very my screens in my hands so my neighbors wouldn't hear me because of how much i was stuffed right after
00:14:02going through something like that but i think what surprised me was i mean it's one thing to feel pain from the assault itself but i felt like most of the institutions around me we will be training me so i went teo the some of the deans of at
00:14:20harvard law school which is where this person i learned alarms we had been a student and i was just asking them questions around the timing i i wanted to do a restorative justice response not go through the campus system s i wasn't even trying to go through a
00:14:36punitive system but i just had questions about the timing so i knew what i needed to make decisions by and they just use the entire meeting toe lie to me and to try to get me to go away and not report it and i was in a you
00:14:52know i was already hurting a lot and so then should go to it So i'm going to your school do you think is a professional who's His title is title nine administrator This was to be i mean it's a lot that's supposed to help women get equal education
00:15:03and just be treated so unethically without any compassion was really jarring It was interesting she was than any time that we communicated over email They would cover up their lives the perfect paper trail to try to not get sued which like they were so calculated what they were
00:15:22doing and i met other people who went to harvard You were convinced not to report by the administration so i felt like ok can't trust my school and there's research about how that head of institutional betrayal worsens the trauma effects that survivors are already facing it like and
00:15:38in long term ways So that happened and then i needed to get out of my housing and there's likely a law in massachusetts that lets you get out of your housing If you have faced assault and my landlord like tried to keep me in my least and it
00:15:53took nine months to get a security of deposit and first month's rent back that i was entitled to you not to be this long legal battle and they were yelling at me and victim blaming me and telling me that the least was in a faction so people don't
00:16:05understand the institutional be trail that happens not just the assault it's it's having to fight for your house and rights of having to deal with these reporting systems that are unfortunately often not get up not just the universities that through our criminal systems you know meanwhile are political
00:16:22backdrop a lot of progress that was made on sexual violence for survivors lopez rescinded and you see the people in power who are perpetuating harm and so there's just a lot of like societal retrial so that was the start of it for me and i think that i
00:16:39was going through that i was aware of how it wasn't just me It was a systemic issues around the reporting systems institutional betrayal and some of the cultural conversations that i started to notice and i started to feel like i want tio tackle those issues Thank you so
00:16:55much for sharing your truth and the struggle and the journey i think it's so powerful that you took this terrible experience and repeated syria's of experiences that you faced and decided to turn it into an organization and a movement to help other people who are experiencing and and
00:17:20making it through what you had been through i'm wondering has that process help your healing journey to have this movement that you're creating and this organization that you're leading our co leading you said with these other incredible women as i helped your own process yeah it has and
00:17:41then i also try to think about healing in ways that have nothing to do with these external results as well that it's been really meaningful to connect with other survivors especially those who felt that the reporting systems like we thought similarly and six for example i felt a
00:18:00lot of pressure after this happened to me like some people especially men because they often haven't experienced the type of reaction but women have like they're like you know you need to report in we have this system and where the way that we think about justice is about
00:18:15punishment and punishment is unnecessarily accountability and punishment doesn't necessarily prevent repeat harm or heal people and there's a lot of research to back that And so i did find it really reassuring to me other survivors he felt like you know restorative justice is exactly what they would have
00:18:33wanted not every survivor for short but there were other people who said you know that would have really met my needs and the assistance and i mean my name so i felt really strong community from other women who are so strong and had been through so much but
00:18:47still remains strong and compassionate and brave I think i really gave myself like a full year too I mean i'm going to be processing things for a long time ago and i'm all better but they gave myself time last year to hell i took the summer i turned
00:19:05on other fellowships and i just got a research grant tio work on restorative justice issues like i talked about it they related to sexual harmon ageist design may summer so i could have a lot of flexibility and to make healing my number one priority but there was a
00:19:19lot of times last year where i was feeling sorry for myself and and that was needed you know that time to just like be hurting and be with people but i had this moment i try to do a couple meditation retreat every year and they're just stops You're
00:19:32great aspects of my life i highly recommend meditation so this new year's we were during meditation and you have to like keep your arms in the air a long time and it can be physically challenging and i just felt like so much strength during it where i thought
00:19:49i don't want to feel sorry for myself anymore i want to channel my rage into fuel i want my tears to the empathy i want the pain that i face from the wrongdoings of others or these unjust systems to turn into creativity and like those moments that i
00:20:05was literally screaming with how much i heard i'm gonna put that into being committed And so i think in some ways i've never felt more i haven't felt this much purpose in a long time and i feel a lot of creativity and inspiration I'm having awesome like some
00:20:20entrepreneurial on community building ideas have come out of this that have definitely helping heal and give me hope that you know years from now survivors male or female i'm not going to the administrators and continuing to be lied to that like we have to hold those institutions accountable
00:20:36to change that being said the flip side of it is that i think i've also learned this year that you can't find healing from like anything external So i am going through harvard's reporting process now because after a long story i'm trying to do restorative process it failed
00:20:53it just the systems aren't set up for it yet and you know i don't expect that harbor is going to find the person who assaulted me accountable because they almost never d'oh and they don't publish this just explained i know them so you know i can't have find
00:21:07healing from them finding something a certain way or from the person who harmed me you know anything that he could say that's not available right now but i also can't expect my healing to be contingent on like changing a law or changing things because then you're delaying you're
00:21:24feeling and you're giving up your power to others on your power has already been taken away and so part of my journey has also been to learn that you can find healing just from yourself And i had this realization last summer was i sent to begin with actually
00:21:37ana who was one of your guests and her partner tubbs is one of my college friends and they were just like playing music driving to tahoe like singing hamilton and i was so happy and i just hadn't felt that much joy and while on it like wow there's
00:21:51so much power and just feeling joy look i'm not letting this person take that away from me And so yes doing this work has been very healing but also try to remind myself that you're healing can ever be contingent on another outcome or like another achievement or changing
00:22:08others people are systems like if i'm in a healthy place and i find that premeditation and through friends and through my you know just internal resources as well then i can be more powerful in effect about doing this work externally but and the healing can come from within
00:22:22and i don't need it to contingent on on that change even though i can channel that healing as well as the pan into creating change Well i just would really like to take a moment to acknowledge you because i feel so touched and inspired right now by you
00:22:40i mean i'm even feeling like a little bit teary eyed because i'm just sitting here and thinking what a blessing to be speaking with this woman who was so brave so empowered so inspiring and i'm just grateful to be talking to you but also that you're going to
00:22:58be going out and doing the work that you're doing and that you are such a great role model and i just want to acknowledge you for that because you're a bad ass like i can't even tell you right now and it's just amazing how you know you are
00:23:15holding for yourself both like you're allowing the pain that you had space for the pain space for the healing and also allowing i mean it's taken time but now you're in the space of like allowing also joy and an empowerment i'm wondering about that shift and whether or
00:23:35not it's related to the sexual empowerment piece it feels like they may be related and so i just would love to hear about your shift into sexual empowerment What is sexual empowerment mean to you and look like and how it has also been an important part of your
00:23:52journey Yeah thank you for asking about that because they feel like they are side doesn't talk about sexuality Now we're starting to talk about sexual harm and that is incredibly important and i think we're seeing a lot of changes from that but there's also all the other aspects
00:24:07of justice as it relates sexuality and then include positivity And so as far as it relates to me personally i think yeah it's interesting because it was crazy and me need to see how something something like intimacy that can be a source of so much joy in connection
00:24:26and harmony transcendence and something that you depending on your spirituality can be like could be very spiritual it's it could be a very positive thing like to have that be you like used for so much pain was really painful and i don't and to me rape and sex
00:24:42are very different like their e i don't ever say the word like non consensual sex because it's just not even sex it's rape and it's about overpowering someone and i'm definitely still processing all of this as i go but i think that there's something that happens when your
00:24:55power has been taken away and your body has been used in a way that you know where you don't have power what was happening where there's something about like reclaiming your sexuality is yours and reclaiming your body as you are is that i think i've heard a lot
00:25:10of other survivors talk about is part of the healing i think it relates more broadly to culture as well even if you haven't gone through something like rape because in our culture women's bodies are so often used for other people's you know for other people's pleasure both like
00:25:26in our media and you know when we face harassment on regular basis which people are finding out is very common and so there's opportunity for women to sort of reclaims sexuality and it's hard to have more near it is of healthy even sexuality in a way that's ours
00:25:41where it doesn't have to be a source of victimization and it can be a source of i've empowerment and joy i mean that's part of it i mean there's a lot of different things we could talk about weaken there's this amazing women's hockey orenstein he's doing this research
00:25:54on young girls and sex and some of the concerning trends around sexuality and adolescent girls and she's finding things like the boy will say that he's like a sexual experience with satisfying is if he had nor got them but the women will say that it was like good
00:26:08if he did and it's not about like her and it's not that sex is all about having an orgasm and like you know that there's like a sense of pressure but i do think that when it comes to pleasure there are a lot of ways where you know
00:26:23some of the challenges that we see outside of our intimate relationships is wickedly powered inequity It also transferred to our most intimate relationships as well So there's a lot of research that has documented this orgasm gaps where and then when they engaged in a sexual experience they have
00:26:41an orgasm almost every time and for heterosexual woman there's a huge gap that's not happening often but what's interesting to me is that when you look at lesbian partners and you have a woman and women together they got basically goes away and they are almost as much as
00:26:56men so that tells me that like ok this isn't just some biological thing We're like a woman don't pamela cousins that it's behavioral and cultural and why is that happening And so they could think of a lot of different hypotheses but in part of that has to do
00:27:10with entertainment and how loonies or trey saxon ways where you know there's an emphasis on the types of sexual acts that privilege men and don't necessarily work for women there's i read this statistic that like in some of the most popular point seems like they studied him on
00:27:27two different scenes and they found that eighteen percent of the woman had an orgasm compared to seventy eight percent of men so people are watching that and watching like consuming that material they just think ok it's normal that like you know sex is for a man to have
00:27:39pleasure and well women's pleasures and incidental and while like yes that's a different issue then sexual harassment or sexual solid that still has to do with how we value women so you know his title to what experience and i can still be dehumanizing when your needs and your
00:27:57sexuality or second to someone else's and they'd also have to do with how women are so cultured tio beginning and accommodating and and taught like since an early age when russian tv when we're for like we're taught in the culture and the narratives that we're seeing to not
00:28:11ask me what we need and so i think that for some reason it's harder for me just like it more uncomfortable for me to talk about pleasure than instrumented to talk about rape because it is like in some ways i feel like there's even more taboo around it
00:28:25and there's more stigma about about a woman's pleasure but like if we want tio gets to a place where there's more equality between men and women and the many asked the sexuality in a spectrum from you not just pain but also pleasure right I think it's something that
00:28:40we should start to have more conversations about so that we can feel more empowered than we're equal Yeah i i really appreciate that And it's is you're talking about i mean one of the most i guess progressive And this when we're talking about sexual empowerment workshops that i
00:28:55went to was was out in the san francisco bay area the woman jessica hadari and the whole presentation was and it was a group of women but it was about in his group of women often entrepreneurs and it was about how to harness your sexual energy and power
00:29:14to fuel your business It was so awesome it was literally like to put it simply give yourself an orgasm and use the energy that you got from that and the feel goods to go out and put that into your business and like create Abundance for yourself but it
00:29:33was so so well and she's doing that like as her like that's her business that's some of the substance you does The reason i asked about whether it's her business is because i feel like there's that growth in female entrepreneurs that are doing work around this and i
00:29:47think there's a there's an opportunity to actually create wealth and to put into the hands of women while closing some of those gaps that we've talked about i think is interesting because when you look at his being financed we already know that like female entrepreneurs makeup i think
00:30:02two percent of venture funding and six percent of venture capitalists are women but also a lot of venture capital firms or structures so that they cannot invest in anything to do with sex she's really interestingly based on their lt agreement So i think there's a business opportunity to
00:30:17choose support entrepreneurship in this space and make money in a way that you know sees women not just eyes like these victims and you know people that need cannons and we do need felt about that spending and we we do need like pro bono legal support but but
00:30:31i think there's a may be said for being able to customers and be able to entrepreneurs and to tackle some of these issues around intimacy justice through entrepreneurship in business and use like the power of market to drive some of that chain so that's like some of what
00:30:46i'm thinking about going forward so it is always assigned to hearing care about him entrepreneurs and female educators that are working on this and i think there's an opportunity to create a lot of systems like change through entrepreneurship in this space well thank you so much for raising
00:31:03so much consciousness about women's sexuality and empowerment and scaling it into business and you know as we're thinking about the national conversations right now as you noted there is this massive movement around me too and i was wondering in all the work you're doing in your personal experience
00:31:25what was that like for you as you saw this hashtag in this national conversation taking center stage yeah it was so powerful i felt that this silence around this hurt that i was feeling was like sweltering and stifling and i wanted to talk about it like no one
00:31:44talks about it and so it was difficult and i and i don't think that a survivor should ever have to talk about their experience or feel pressure it's just from those that want tio and so i felt seen so many other women share their stories has made it
00:31:58easier for me to speak out and has established a sense of like consciousness of how pervasive sexual harm is and it's just been inspiring and brave i think it's also raised so many questions or people are wondering ok what do you do next And i actually kind of
00:32:15empathy for men better thinking about like what do i do And they're also suffering from toxic masculinity and i love this quotation about how like it if you've come to save me like oh i'm saying it wrong but like go away but if you come because you realize
00:32:29that our liberation has found up in each other's than let us work together i think that like men are also in a difficult place as we're thinking about like how you restate masculinity and south sleuth issues so i think yeah it made me feel like he got more
00:32:44it's given me a lot of hope that this is gaining attention i mean you're over a speech in the time magazine cover but i think it's like ok now we're running what he do next what whether the solutions where can we channel this energy and if there is
00:32:56going to be backlash what's that going to look like and how do we get prepared and so definitely inspired me and also left me with lots of questions i can't wait to see where where it goes what type of advice or perspectives I mean we've talked a lot
00:33:12about this movement i think it's really important so i'm going to shift the question a little bit other than you know than what we normally ask but what if i said you give to millennials who you know have an interesting perspective on life because you know we're so
00:33:29connected via social media and we were used to sharing these kinds of things and talking about these kinds of things I'm in a different way i mean what if i said you give for a millennial who's listening to this and wants to get involved or wants to learn
00:33:43more or share more what would you say to them Yeah anything part of it is just tio our conversation with your friends and we need to start talking about the ditches me to start talking not only about sexual harm but also like asking for what we want as
00:34:02it relates to closing some of the gaps around pleasure and exploring that and you know learning about ourselves so i think it's important to talk about and that's probably going to be just something that doesn't happen overnight it means like it something we did another hash sad or
00:34:15like the pleasure person in that but you know i mean it live sixty eight more spaces where there can be conversation and dialogue as it relates to the restorative justice work with stage we're definitely going to be wanting to engage all kinds of people who are interested in
00:34:32advocating for expanding reporting options including was sort of justice approaches so we can share common information around that where people can reach out of that's of interest i hope that we can start to learn more and start to have more conversations and start tio i think there's a
00:34:49need to de stigmatize backs because that will relate tio addressing you know helping us have more positive experiences and reducing some of the shame that makes sexual violence more pervasive this well and this fire is sharing and social media i mean i don't think that anyone should ever
00:35:05feel pressure to share and so i think it's really important that people honor themselves and for those who have faced harm which is many of us like i think that our self care needs to come first and we're not responsible or anyone else's actions or we don't have
00:35:20an obligation to fix all of this so i think it's important to really have self care and we treat ourselves i think more broadly and i guess this relates not just to these types of issues that just like sam broader advice that i give that really it's what
00:35:33i've been thinking about is for me like i might sound i don't know how the broadcast sounds mother i sound comfortable talking about these issues but i was really nervous to talk about these issues especially this like that the more pleasure aspects of sexuality because they're not often
00:35:48talked about like it's almost easier like i said to talk about the harm and so there a lot of things where for the work that i wanted tio i'm very afraid i spent like whenever you're talking about out about i want to work in financing around sexual empowerment
00:36:02and impacts investing and look at information technology and like how i can use this areas to impact these issues that i am i have so many different fears like some feelers crazy like oh i've avoided that it will open up people to thinking of inviting them to harass
00:36:16you mean just crazy things that air seeped in like major kate who you know i'm worried about how to talk about sex when it's something that i have so much you know when i faced all this trauma and like i have a lot of fears around working in
00:36:28the space or being seen is crazy but what i've been working on what sort of my near solution is like not necessarily to be fear leslie him you can't just not have fear but teo be fearful and still go for it So thinking about like how do you
00:36:45be mindful of your fears and how do you like own your fear and have them be a part of you and be a part of your story but almost like able to channel fear and figure out healthy ways of having here that don't surprise that we want to
00:36:58do but we can still have fear and just look at it and just still do what we want to do my motto is like being fearful not a certainly fearless well thank you for sharing your truth and sitting with the fear and turning it into an incredibly beautiful
00:37:19conversation and very timely and important one and as we're wrapping up here jackie with you my insuring people where they can find more about the work you're doing right now yeah definitely so we're still creating a website for stage which is something where we would love we want
00:37:37to build a national organizing network so or even if they're people outside of the u s there is a lot of opportunity to get involved so we don't have the website yet but like an ivy said they could put it in the notes for the for this session
00:37:49so we can share more about that And then even though i didn't talk a lot about everybody else now that's something that people can definitely learn more everybody down now dot or ge and we're also on facebook and instagram and hopefully in the coming months i'll start to
00:38:05create more platforms sir and ways tay reach out and build community around some of these issues jackie thank you so much for bringing your truth your light and you're power to the podcast and we are so excited for what you have ahead of you and we will be
00:38:24cheering you on We will wait to talk with you about this is something that is nervous about and likeness leave like rescheduled it for a whole year so i until i was out of place in the processing record talk and you're number like totally ready but i thought
00:38:40it was ready enough so it has been a really good opportunity to talk to you both and you're both just so great to connect with and so supportive so i'm really appreciative of the opportunity to have this conversation and i love what you're doing First show notes and
00:38:55previous episodes or to learn more about our coaching an event offerings visit motivational millennial dot com that's millennial m i double l e a double in i am keep in touch with us and facebook dot com slash motivational millennial we'd love to hear from you shoot us an
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00:39:26brandis the motivational millennial podcasts edited by britney felix have a great week motivational millennials

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