Full Transcript for Diversity, Financial Crises & Conformity

they refer to as those with 251 or more UK-based employees, and that threshold actually is basically set at the same level as the gender pay gap reporting requirements. 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:29.208 So they've sort of aligned this new approach In the same way as some existing legislation. 00:05:29.208 --> 00:05:42.088 But what they're proposing is that if you're a large firm you must put in place evidence based diversity and inclusion strategies that take into account the individual firms progress In diversity and inclusion. 00:05:42.088 --> 00:06:07.238 So the strategy has to set objectives and must have a clear goals with a plan as to how the firm actually is going to meet those and actually how it's going to measure its own progress, positive sort of arrangements in place to identify the obstacles and also making sure that all staff in the firm 251 or more staff, say, across the UK all those firms have to understand what the strategy really means for each of them. 00:06:07.238 --> 00:06:14.358 So it's quite interesting that they're putting this into effectively mandatory disclosure rules. 00:06:14.358 --> 00:06:21.694 But actually, when you read the small print, it's not all going to be quite so mandatory, because they're actually giving a lot of flexibility to firms. 00:06:21.754 --> 00:06:28.858 Initially, because the way they the FCA and the PRA recognize this is that it's not one size fits all at all. 00:06:28.858 --> 00:06:39.858 You know, if we're looking across all financial services firms operating in the UK, if you just take the asset management sector, we're actually talking the biggest firms who are going to be required to do this. 00:06:39.858 --> 00:06:42.845 Smaller firms have the option to opt in or not. 00:06:42.845 --> 00:06:59.204 What's really interesting, as I say, in terms of this sort of proportionate approach, is that the FCA and the PRA are saying well, we recognize that targets play an important role, driving progress by encouraging a focus on each firm to reach diversity goals and enable progress to be measured. 00:06:59.204 --> 00:07:02.983 So that's, I think, very positive and that's something that has to be applauded, I think. 00:07:02.983 --> 00:07:13.459 But what they've done is they're saying OK, we want you to set diversity targets, particularly to address underrepresentation, both at board senior leadership and employee population level. 00:07:13.459 --> 00:07:21.264 But which demographic characteristics each firm should cover is going to be left down to each individual firm. 00:07:21.264 --> 00:07:33.103 They've got the option as to well, for you, for you firm A or you firm B, your demographic targets might be different from one another, so we're going to let each firm choose its own targets. 00:07:36.074 --> 00:07:38.884 Now, the interesting again thing here is that there's a public reporting element to it. 00:07:38.884 --> 00:07:52.338 There's a public reporting element to this so that the public, customers

of these firms, can say OK, well, last year you said you wanted to get 50 percent of the board to be female, so there's gender equality at board level. 00:07:52.338 --> 00:07:56.850 You've reported your data this year and you've not achieved that. 00:07:56.850 --> 00:07:58.125 Why have you not achieved that? 00:07:58.125 --> 00:08:18.050 Okay, maybe they may have reasonable answers for that, but at least it means that there's going to be questions asked, presumably at AGMs, by shareholders and ultimately, shareholders care about this sort of thing because at the end of the day, customers, investors man in the street is voting with his feet or her feet. 00:08:18.129 --> 00:08:21.889 Yeah, absolutely, and this is the reputational challenge. 00:08:22.129 --> 00:08:22.730 It's really interesting. 00:08:22.730 --> 00:08:39.114 So, just before I jump back onto that, it's very interesting because both the diversity project and some recent investment association research has highlighted is that there are still a rump of firms who are not doing anything material to address diversity issues. 00:08:39.114 --> 00:08:59.466 But it is a major reputational challenge because I think we've seen with Odie, with CBI, with the FT, stuff about Leon Black at the moment in New York, you know, particularly in this sort of misogynistic area is you know, it's a major reputational challenge when these behaviors happen. 00:08:59.466 --> 00:09:05.828 But these behaviors happen, as we were saying, with things, like you know, with the allegations about Crispin Odie, because things have become normalized. 00:09:06.259 --> 00:09:18.727 If you're not seeing to be making the right moves in towards diversity, then it does hit the bottom line because it's something that your clients want, whether they're institutional investors or whether they're retail investors. 00:09:18.727 --> 00:09:21.506 They want to be associated with businesses that relate to them. 00:09:21.506 --> 00:09:23.360 Talent is the same thing. 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:26.770 You know it hits you with talent in this battle for talent as well. 00:09:26.770 --> 00:09:38.269 You know these people, people want to work for a business which they can understand, which relates to them, which allows them to be themselves and to express themselves, and this has been a real challenge for the investment industry over the last few years. 00:09:38.269 --> 00:09:49.652 You know the investment industry looks like it does today because 40 to 50 years ago that's what its client base looked like Rather, you know, white, generally rather middle class men. 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:57.029 And society has moved on tremendously from that and is continuing to move on and asset management industry hasn't really kept pace with that. 00:09:57.029 --> 00:10:00.187 So what you get are a number of challenges. 00:10:00.187 --> 00:10:08.981 So you know, if you think, if we think about how technology is impacting asset management at the moment, you know

asset management has always struggled around technology. 00:10:08.981 --> 00:10:15.269 You know great investors in technology not necessarily great at applying technology or innovators. 00:10:15.868 --> 00:10:16.639 No, absolutely. 00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:19.207 And innovation within asset management has been very narrow. 00:10:19.207 --> 00:10:27.399 It's been great and you can see in some tech sectors, you know, if you think around systematic and quantitative investing you think of CTAs and things like that. 00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:35.630 There have been some, you know, tremendous progress made in the application of science but in terms of technology, very poor and losing that battle for talent. 00:10:35.630 --> 00:10:46.669 And if you think about it now, with the shakeout that we've had at all these big tech firms, what a great opportunity for the asset management industry to start to be able to attract some real big hitting talent in the tech world. 00:10:46.669 --> 00:10:47.572 Is it doing that? 00:10:47.572 --> 00:10:48.725 Is it doing that effectively? 00:10:48.725 --> 00:10:49.961 Do people? 00:10:50.003 --> 00:10:51.147 who work in tech. 00:10:51.419 --> 00:10:52.806 Yeah, I think they are to a degree. 00:10:52.806 --> 00:11:02.886 But do people who've worked for one of them, you know, for Google or for one of the big tech firms, do they look at the asset management industry and goes, oh, that looks like it's for me, that looks like it's relevant to me. 00:11:02.886 --> 00:11:04.145 I understand what that does? 00:11:04.145 --> 00:11:06.027 No, I don't think it does. 00:11:06.027 --> 00:11:14.126 I think also, you know, you've got this, you've got this issue around decision making as a business. 00:11:14.126 --> 00:11:18.951 So we've touched upon the idea of relevance relevance to talent, relevance to your clients. 00:11:18.951 --> 00:11:25.153 If you're not increasingly diverse, you're decreasingly relevant to your audiences. 00:11:25.153 --> 00:11:38.360 And I think the other point here is that as businesses, particularly as the asset management industry consolidates, particularly as asset management firms get bigger and the big firms are getting bigger, systemic risk is a major issue. 00:11:38.460 --> 00:11:45.931 Well, if we travel back in time 15 years to the global financial crisis, you know a lot of people saw this problem. 00:11:45.931 --> 00:11:55.056 Huge amounts of people now say, oh, we did see that there was a problem, but very, very few people made, you know, acted upon that. 00:11:55.056 --> 00:11:56.480 And why was that? 00:11:56.480 --> 00:12:04.674 Well, largely they were white men of similar educational and cultural backgrounds. 00:12:05.863 --> 00:12:13.611 If you look at the film the Big Short as a way of, or the read the book the Big Short, which is probably my recommendation, above the film, although the film is tremendous as well. 00:12:13.611 --> 00:12:27.759 You know who's the main protagonist of that, ultimately,

is a hedge fund manager called Michael Burry, who is neurodiverse, but he was the only one, really, of all those people who said, well, there is something different, and I'm going to act upon that. 00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:35.080 Lots of people had seen what he'd seen, maybe not to the same level of detail, but they'd seen what he had seen and decided not to act. 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:43.000 And I think, if we think about systemic risk going forward, we need we need to go away from this group thing which has affected the asset management industry. 00:12:43.865 --> 00:13:05.720 But no, what's interesting I mean I absolutely echo what you say there and what's fascinating about the FCA's consultation and its proposals for diversity and inclusion is that the FCA actually says that matters relating to diversity and inclusion should be considered looking forward as a non-financial risk, a risk that firms must address Absolutely, absolutely, spot on. 00:13:07.928 --> 00:13:10.840 It's a shame it's taken this long for them to address it, but it has to be seen as positive. 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:21.991 And, going back to your comment earlier that you know there's perhaps lip service paid but actually not a lot of follow through. 00:13:21.991 --> 00:13:23.839 Things aren't as effective as it could have been. 00:13:23.839 --> 00:13:36.846 I've got some stats here from last year 2022, where Agility in Mind surveyed all FTSE 100 firms. 00:13:36.846 --> 00:13:42.880 So I know this is not all financial services and certainly not all asset management, but they focused on the FTSE 100. 00:13:42.880 --> 00:14:01.965 And they said that, despite all of them well, 99% of them having an inclusive mission statement, they found that actually 48% of them so very nearly half actually didn't have diversity and inclusion initiatives that really followed through and were really positive to the workforce. 00:14:01.965 --> 00:14:17.426 Now, obviously, that may have changed in the past 12 months, but nonetheless it's fascinating because, again to go back to your comment about neurodiversity, only 4% of the FTSE 100 actually had a neurodiversity initiative, based on the stats from last year. 00:14:18.154 --> 00:14:25.905 Neurodiversity obviously is one of those things that's really interesting in financial services because there is this stereotype of what neurodiversity is. 00:14:25.905 --> 00:14:38.544 Also, people seem to think of Rain man, that sort of highly high achieving maths brain, and the reality is so much different to that. 00:14:38.936 --> 00:14:46.524 Well, the old fashioned phrase, they're on the spectrum, which meant, of course it's a spectrum, you've got one end to the other and everyone sits on it somewhere. 00:14:46.524 --> 00:14:52.125 But I think neurodiversity is about celebrating people who perhaps think a little bit differently. 00:14:52.125 --> 00:14:53.899 And how can you make the most of? 00:14:53.979 --> 00:14:54.561 it Absolutely. 00:14:54.561 --> 00:15:08.280 I mean Michael Burry, but also a lot of people would say that some of the attributes of neurodiversity are almost like superpowers, particularly in financial services, not just because of the maths but because of the levels of focus, etc. 00:15:08.280 --> 00:15:18.346 But actually, though, it's a highly stereotype, because lots of people who are neurodiverse are highly empathetic, in fact extremely empathetic, rather than being lacking in empathy, which I think is sort of Because the opposite of the Rain man. 00:15:18.505 --> 00:15:23.914 Yes, so it's a really interesting one, and I have to put my hand up to the diversity project. 00:15:23.914 --> 00:15:42.268 I've done some really interesting and excellent work in here on neurodiversity, but it's something where clearly, I think what they came out with is that not only are some of the one in six people working in financial services neurodiverse, but less than half of that is disclosed. 00:15:42.268 --> 00:15:48.965 I think that's the correct analysis of those numbers, and it is the data around this which is going to be challenging. 00:15:48.965 --> 00:15:52.124 So you think about what the FCA's challenged to the industry. 00:15:52.124 --> 00:15:57.244 A lot of that is going to be around data, and then is how do you get that data? 00:15:57.244 --> 00:16:00.985 Because ultimately, what you're really asking is how do people self-identify? 00:16:01.534 --> 00:16:13.620 That's a really good point and actually it's something that the FCA and the PRA focus on in their diversity and inclusion consultation papers, because they say, well, there's going to be have to be a core reporting requirement. 00:16:13.620 --> 00:16:21.849 So these proposed rules would basically say OK, you've got to report how many employees you have, that's across the board, Doesn't matter what size firm you are. 00:16:21.849 --> 00:16:25.903 Obviously, if you've got 251 or more, then you've got to do all these additional disclosures. 00:16:25.903 --> 00:16:41.318 Larger firms, those over the threshold 251 plus, have to report annually to the regulator on all sorts of matters, so data on age, ethnicity, sex, gender, religion, sexual orientation, disability or long-term health conditions. 00:16:42.034 --> 00:16:46.667 The world has moved on, but the FCA and the PRA are playing catch up. 00:16:46.667 --> 00:16:55.304 As I say, I think it's going to be seen as a positive because ultimately, when we're focused on risk, this is a non-financial risk. 00:16:55.304 --> 00:17:11.432 This is something that all firms should be really focused on and concerned about, Because if the risk of getting it wrong certainly if you're a big listed company, if you're an asset manager listed on the FTSE 100 or elsewhere, your shareholders could flee if you do something really bad. 00:17:13.527 --> 00:17:27.458 It is interesting as well because what, ultimately, when we're talking about data, really what we're talking about is aggregate data

across a business, but that doesn't tell you where diversity is in that business and where diversity isn't. 00:17:27.458 --> 00:17:40.214 So if you think about most asset management businesses, the major cost centre of most fund management businesses, most wealth management businesses, is around portfolio management, whether that's running funds or running client portfolios. 00:17:40.214 --> 00:17:52.237 Business development is another huge one because, as we've talked about in the past, this is an industry where products are sold and not bought, so there's a lot of emphasis on direct selling, on interpersonal relationships, etc. 00:17:52.237 --> 00:17:57.565 So a lot of resource goes into those sort of sales teams, business development teams, etc. 00:17:57.565 --> 00:18:00.713 Much less into the rest of marketing, I should point out. 00:18:00.713 --> 00:18:18.357 And then obviously you have the leadership team as well, and if you strip out the portfolio management from most asset managers, you will find that the rest of the business fund admin, back office marketing, etc. 00:18:18.357 --> 00:18:24.605 Is much more diverse than those core business areas. 00:18:24.605 --> 00:18:26.625 So that particularly the portfolio management. 00:18:26.625 --> 00:18:29.625 Well, I think that follows through as well to lots of other sectors. 00:18:29.625 --> 00:18:42.358 I mean, if you take legal, you know, just taking my firm, I mean the partnership team is mostly white, mostly male, not all but mostly. 00:18:42.358 --> 00:18:58.625 But then if you look at all the support stuff, the support professionals who work with us to make sure that we can actually do our jobs, they're far more diverse than we are, people from all over the world, people from different perspectives of the universe, but they help us do our work. 00:18:58.625 --> 00:19:00.771 So they're critical to the business. 00:19:00.771 --> 00:19:15.997 But the challenge in the legal profession, of course, is how do we get more people of colour, how do we get more people who have other sort of ethnicity or diversity sort of factors that they might self identify with? 00:19:15.997 --> 00:19:18.205 How do we get them up into the partnership level? 00:19:18.205 --> 00:19:20.415 How do we make them part of the leaders of the business? 00:19:20.415 --> 00:19:23.810 They've got to start all the way through, I guess at school level. 00:19:23.810 --> 00:19:27.626 They've got to want to study law or study something else and then transition into law. 00:19:28.470 --> 00:19:32.463 I mean, I could say the same about the reputation management industry. 00:19:32.463 --> 00:19:51.530 So gender is probably less of an issue and Lansons Team Farner is by far a female dominated organization and the split between male and female, men and women on the board and the split between men and women throughout the company is relatively the same. 00:19:51.530 --> 00:20:05.884 It's not like, say, nursing, particularly nursing 20 years ago, where at entry level it was mostly women, but at the senior level in nursing, particularly on the board of things like the RCN, it was male dominated for years. 00:20:07.146 --> 00:20:10.276 But obviously it's a bit white middle class. 00:20:10.276 --> 00:20:12.181 The reputation management industry. 00:20:12.181 --> 00:20:13.904 I think I can say that it's getting better. 00:20:13.904 --> 00:20:17.480 All the businesses I see out there are making progress. 00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:46.834 But I think there is a challenge where the investment management industry needs to address these sort of core areas quite directly, because we know, for example I mean there's plenty of academic research out there now that says that diverse investment teams perform better, and there have been asset management businesses in the US which have had that as actually a sort of focal point of what they've been doing. 00:20:46.834 --> 00:20:51.185 They have had more diverse teams. 00:20:51.185 --> 00:20:57.740 But it's also about bringing in people again we're back to this group think issue who look at things a bit differently, who think about it differently. 00:20:57.779 --> 00:21:05.087 Who approach a problem in a different way, to perhaps come up with a solution that the traditional portfolio management sector might not have thought about. 00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:38.384 Absolutely, and that gender isn't, and we shouldn't think about gender as being the primary driver of that, because you could have a female leader, team leader, ceo, whatever, but if the rest of the business doesn't really reflect that level of diversity, then it starts to look like it's not quite a sincere or it's a tokenistic move, and there are plenty of businesses where the makeup of the board or the makeup of the senior team does not reflect the business overall, and I think that's quite a common challenge. 00:21:38.806 --> 00:21:52.961 So it is about getting these teams within the businesses to be much more reflective of society and to be much more reflective of a different approach and different ways of thinking, and there have been some great initiatives over the years. 00:21:52.961 --> 00:22:08.324 Investment 2020 is now part of the diversity project, but those sort of initiatives over the years have been really important and, in fact, on the subject of the diversity project, their current one brings us back almost full circle to what we started talking about, which was Non-Fundational Wisconsin. 00:22:08.324 --> 00:22:25.661 So they've got a safe space initiative, which is allowing people the opportunity to talk freely about bad experiences and poor behavior within the businesses they work for, and that's very, very much driven by CBI and OD and all these other cases that are coming to light. 00:22:25.661 --> 00:22:36.893 So there are all these catalysts for change, but it is going to take time and I think just coming back to reputation again, it's important to have. 00:22:36.893 -->

00:22:39.019 We're talking about the data. 00:22:39.019 --> 00:22:40.928 We're talking about the regulator requirements. 00:22:40.928 --> 00:22:42.936 It's not just about numbers, it's how. 00:22:42.936 --> 00:22:44.844 What story are those numbers telling? 00:22:45.044 --> 00:22:46.268 That's really important. 00:22:47.069 --> 00:23:08.375 That's why disclosure and actually explaining what the data means to that firm at that point in time and then acting on it and following upon it going forward and that journey that you're on, because I remember when gender pay gap data started coming out and you know firms asset management firms looked terrible. 00:23:08.375 --> 00:23:18.978 Even those that were disclosing, that didn't need to disclose it did not look great for the industry and everyone was saying, oh, you know, obviously we're looking to make improvements, but it's difficult. 00:23:18.978 --> 00:23:20.042 Blah, blah, blah. 00:23:20.042 --> 00:23:31.910 We're trying to do things and there is a requirement to sort of be able to manage expectations a little bit, because the reality is, when you're making these changes, not everything is going to move in a smooth straight line. 00:23:31.910 --> 00:23:44.781 There are going to be periods where progress is much better and they're going to be periods where progress is much harder and you know, from a statistical or data point of view, it may even appear not just to be not moving, but maybe moving in the wrong direction. 00:23:44.781 --> 00:23:55.111 And again, there's some IA research which shows that there's been very little movement over the last couple of years in terms of hiring of women into senior positions, etc. 00:23:55.111 --> 00:24:05.842 So it's about how you tell your story and it's about how you use those numbers and make those stories, because ultimately, what we've got to think about here is what's the purpose of the asset management industry? 00:24:05.882 --> 00:24:18.776 The asset management industry here is about the future prosperity of the planet really, whether that's from a climate change perspective or whether that's just simply, you know, people being able to have a secure, long-term financial future. 00:24:18.776 --> 00:24:26.365 So ultimately, that's the heart of it, and if you can't deliver that on a diversity basis, then you're not really delivering it at all. 00:24:26.365 --> 00:24:28.814 I think is part of the problem. 00:24:28.814 --> 00:24:41.372 So I think there are, you know, from a reputational point of view, and I think also the idea that we move away from where the asset management industry has got to today, that actually things might start to change. 00:24:41.432 --> 00:24:53.594 I mean, they may sound like small things, but it's not that long ago that you went on to a fund management website and the imagery was vintage cars and you know sailing boats and those sort of things. 00:24:53.594 --> 00:25:04.057 And just think about how many asset managers have some sort of sailing imagery in their logo or something like that, the amount of boats, sails, etc. 00:25:04.057 --> 00:25:05.741 And the language that we talk about. 00:25:05.741 --> 00:25:10.903 You know the language that's commonplace to asset management, which is very, you know again, headwinds, tailwinds. 00:25:10.903 --> 00:25:21.065 It's very elitist, ultimately, and very male-centric in its origins and I think if we think about where the asset management industry needs to go, it needs to tell its story in a different way. 00:25:21.065 --> 00:25:23.691 It's not just about numbers. 00:25:23.691 --> 00:25:30.192 It's got to be about how you tell that story to different audiences in a way which is going to resonate with them. 00:25:30.760 --> 00:25:34.391 And actually that concept of a story, telling a story. 00:25:34.391 --> 00:25:38.223 But to bring it back to what's the risk to the business? 00:25:38.223 --> 00:25:40.415 Well, the risk is, of course, you tell a story that's not true. 00:25:40.415 --> 00:25:58.721 You know, when we talked in the greenwashing episode about the risk of saying things you were doing that actually weren't the full story Scenarios where a particular bank got slapped down by the Advertising Standards Authority because it said it was planting millions of trees, but yeah, but you also invest in oil and gas, so CO2 emitting businesses. 00:25:58.721 --> 00:26:00.746 That was bad. 00:26:00.746 --> 00:26:12.326 The prime scenario, prime case I can think of here for diversity, greenwashing is not the right word but saying you got great diversity initiatives, but actually it wasn't true. 00:26:13.431 --> 00:26:29.261 Over the last couple of years there's a particular US bank, one of the top five banks in the States, who have been under fire by the US regulators for a whole spate of different scandals, and what's happened is actually it's various shareholders have sued the bank's board. 00:26:29.261 --> 00:26:43.102 So one scenario, one of the cases, is that, according to the bank, the board acted on a whole range of diversity, equality and inclusion issues, but only after media coverage forced them to do so. 00:26:43.102 --> 00:26:57.114 So one of the Philadelphia workers' pension funds was suing the bank because it was conducting quote sham interviews to normally fulfill the diversity-enhancing policy. 00:26:57.114 --> 00:26:58.941 So they were. 00:26:58.941 --> 00:27:10.325 The particular bank was interviewing candidates for mortgages, said that it was actually interviewing lots of African Americans and that it was committed to equality across the board. 00:27:10.325 --> 00:27:23.065 What actually happened was is that it turned out that in fact, they were rejecting African American applicants at a significantly higher rate than white Americans who were applying for mortgages. 00:27:23.065 --> 00:27:27.585 When that became public, the share price dropped 10% in a day. 00:27:28.487 --> 00:27:47.771 All these pension funds who

have fiduciary duties to their investors, to their pensioners, to maintain pension values, they all sued the board because the board was saying one thing and yet doing something entirely different, and the fact that it was referred to as a sham, nominally fulfilling a policy only after media coverage. 00:27:47.771 --> 00:27:50.358 That is telling. 00:27:50.358 --> 00:27:55.248 If you're telling a story, it needs to be both true but also the right story. 00:27:55.248 --> 00:28:14.904 And again, I can't think of a specific example with an asset manager right now, but if you imagined an asset manager doing something along those lines, that would be pretty devastating both for the business, because significant portfolio managers would probably leave and go to another business where they were considered to be more welcome. 00:28:15.428 --> 00:28:22.348 And investors would leave Absolutely the big institutional investors who are all looking at diversity, culture etc. 00:28:22.348 --> 00:28:24.192 As part of the RFP. 00:28:24.192 --> 00:28:39.306 So part of you know the criteria which they take on a manager is yes, that would be potentially fairly fatal in terms of the business outlook for any firm company but, without wanting to sound too negative, you can almost see it happening. 00:28:39.306 --> 00:28:53.890 The fact that the regulations are now being put in place we talked about that with some of those banks in the greenwashing episode, as you mentioned, whereby they were saying one thing but they weren't doing it. 00:28:53.890 --> 00:29:01.432 People saying that they're making efforts to increase diversity, increase inclusion within the business and not doing it. 00:29:01.760 --> 00:29:07.686 Well, the stats are going to start reflecting that because these are going to be mandatory disclosures under the proposals from the FCA and the PRA. 00:29:07.686 --> 00:29:15.849 So actually, year on year, if you're a big institutional investor, you'll be able to look at the asset managers you put your money with and say well, hold on a minute. 00:29:15.849 --> 00:29:18.260 You say you're making efforts to do this, that and the other. 00:29:18.260 --> 00:29:20.228 The numbers don't reflect that. 00:29:20.228 --> 00:29:23.619 So why haven't you hired more neurodiverse people? 00:29:23.619 --> 00:29:26.152 Why haven't you hired more people who are LGBT identifying? 00:29:26.152 --> 00:29:28.241 Why haven't you hired more women at board level? 00:29:28.241 --> 00:29:38.623 If you said you were going to and actually I think that that means that people will vote with their feet Investors will start putting pressure on asset managers to make sure that they follow through. 00:29:39.025 --> 00:29:41.132 Yeah, absolutely so. 00:29:41.132 --> 00:29:42.696 That's all we have time for today. 00:29:42.696 --> 00:29:44.102 Thank you very much, Neil. 00:29:44.102 --> 00:29:52.766 We will be back in a few weeks time with more interesting areas to discuss about the overlap between regulation and reputation. 00:29:53.267 --> 00:29:55.532 Thank you, I've been Neil Robson and I'm David Masters. 00:29:56.340 --> 00:29:59.153 You've been listening to Misconduct, Money and Reputation. 00:29:59.153 --> 00:30:03.691 Please do stay tuned for further episodes by subscribing on your favourite podcast app. 00:30:03.691 --> 00:30:06.461 You can find us by searching Lansons or Catten. 00:30:06.461 --> 00:30:13.182 This episode was recorded in the Lansons studios and brought to you by reputation specialists Lansons and Lawfone Catten. 00:30:13.182 --> 00:30:21.035 The content in this podcast is for informational purposes only. 00:30:21.035 --> 00:30:32.672 It does not constitute legal advice and does not intend to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest standards of care applicable to attorneys in any given situation. 00:30:32.672 --> 00:30:36.029 This podcast is considered attorney advertising. 00:30:36.029 --> 00:30:38.900 Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. 00:30:38.900 --> 00:30:52.005 Any views, opinions or comments made by external guest speakers are not to be attributed to Katten Mutchen-Rosemann LLP and or Katten Mutchen-Rosemann UK LLP or their individual attorneys lawyers. 00:30:52.005 --> 00:30:53.580 All rights reserved.