Full Transcript for Intuitive Eating with Chelsea Campbell

butter on it. And but I liked what she said because she was like, Yeah, like you can like if for me though, I have it in my brain that nothing is gonna make me feel better than my toast. And I think she talked about that. She used like the example of like Wonder Bread versus you know something else else, and she was just like It doesn't totally matter exactly what the food is. It's like, are you listening to your body and the way that it responds and how it feels and getting the pleasure out of it? And so I'm curious about this like ritualizing food and can and how the food have a a a net benefit, is that how you say it? A net benefit, even if it's like, ⁓ you know, you shouldn't be eating white flour and, you know, too much butter or whatever. But if it ha if it makes feel real Good and I believe that it's the right food for my body. Like, is that part of intuitive eating? And absolutely, yeah. Satisfaction from your eating is at the heart of it. Every piece of intuitive eating you can touch back on, is this satisfying? Did this satisfy me? ⁓ because that ultimately is what what needs to be the guiding star to our eating is how did this feel? Not only while I was eating it, but after I ate it. You know, it's probably not a satisfying meal to you if you eat it and it tastes good, but then, you know, 20 minutes later you're starving again. You know, overall that probably wasn't a very satisfying eating experience. ⁓ but I think one other thing you're touching on, Kaylee, is in our modern way of thinking about food, we've sort of grouped foods according to the foods that are gonna heal us, the foods that are going to, you know, the good foods, the clean foods. And the foods that are gonna harm us, right? Maybe white bread and sugar. and that's that's a pretty problematic way to think about food in general. It leads to a lot of a lot of emotional overtones in our eating, right? Because if we're eating one of those bad foods, we're feeling guilt, we're feeling shame, and you know, first of all, we're not enjoying the food, but then we're we're taking that and and and applying it to ourselves too, right? I eat this bad food. So I think I'm bad, right? So I think the intuitive eating frees people from that thought process of where where food has moral charge and then we take on that moral charge, right? I had a good day of eating. I had a bad day of eating. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Now where where did mo where did ⁓ intuitive eating come from? Where where did it develop from, Chelsea? Yeah. Yeah, because it is it is a concept, right? So it's kind of it feels like this nebulous thing, like what are we actually talking about? so the intuitive eating model that I'm certified in and one of the original models for it came from two registered dietitians named Evelyn Tribole and Elise Resch, and they created in the nineteen ninety-five in the nineteen nineties, around nineteen ninety-five, ⁓ the from what they saw in their private practices. Specifically around people who were chronically dieting, kind of going through this cycle of trying to lose weight, trying to control their body weight, and then having these sort of off the wagon loss of control feelings around food. And just the more times their clients went through that cycle, the less trust they had in themselves around food. So over time they ended up just feeling Yeah, just feeling a lack of control around food and a lack of trust in themselves. ⁓ and so these two dietitians created this model to help people recover from being in that cycle constantly. and over the years, as it's gained popularity, it's actually been studied by a number of researchers for its health benefits. So ⁓ a number of studies have shown that when people practice intuitive eating, they are less likely to engage in disordered eating behaviors. They're more likely to have a positive body image and they're more likely to have general positive emotional functioning because it translates to other parts of your life. You know, just like ULA, people might come to it searching for exercise and movement. and they'll find that, but they're gonna find a lot, a lot deeper connection to their bodies and to a community. They're gonna find a lot more, right? So people might come to intuitive eating looking for peace with food. ⁓ and they'll find that, but they're gonna find this deeper level of connection to themselves that's gonna translate into the rest of their life as well. Yeah, I didn't realize ⁓ how much emotional distress is associated with eating. Right. ⁓ my gosh. Like from from reading some of the stuff that you sent us and listening to the podcast and then just sort of reflecting on my own life ⁓ and the life of my husband and my children, it's like There's a significant amount of stress that's hinged around eating and whether you're restrictive or not restrictive, what you're eating, how you're eating it. ⁓ and so I found this the in the idea of intuitive eating in terms of like and then connecting to the body, the signals of the body, because it feels like we've gotten so far away from letting us our body kind of tell us like. Yeah, I want the extra butter on my bread. This you know, I want that. I need I want it. And it's like versus like I do. And you want versus like you don't get to have it. And then I bet the the next day you're like, I'll have ten pieces of toast with 30 pats of butter on it. You know, it's like that and then and then you shame yourself like you bad butter girl. You bad butter girl. You bad butter girl. A hundred percent, yes. Stress plays into it in so many ways. Not only, you know, around we're stressing about what we're eating and we're stressing about making sure it's the right thing, but how often are we stressed going into a meal or a snack? And then we're just not even present for it. We're not even there to enjoy it, right? Like I'm thinking about what happened in that work conversation, and my mind is a million miles away from what my body

is doing, which is chewing. But I don't know that I'm doing that, right? That's not where my mind is. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Well, and I think we're ⁓ you know, everyone is so busy now. It's like when, you know, part of it too is like finding and making the time for sitting down and enjoying your food because I know that oftentimes I'll be like, I gotta run, like and you just, you know, you grab what you can grab. Or I know that for my body and just how I'm wired, ⁓ and you're this way too, B, but like w you can feel when your blood sugar drops and then you just become desperate. Like where I'm like, I'm desperate to change the way that I feel right now. And so I you know, and maybe that just ⁓ requires forward thinking. Like you know, after you teach a class, like you know, an hour after you teach a class, if you don't eat something, you're gonna lose your shit. So be prepared with this type of food that's gonna help you regulate your blood sugar. And, you know, so I I it it's like we just we're in this like fast cycle all the time and it's probably so counterintuitive to the way that we're naturally, you know, should be should, but ⁓ you know, how how we would more benefit from our food even. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean how many of us are surprised by that ravenous feeling, right? When maybe you know, we were engrossed in a project, but maybe for the last hour or two hours our body's been sending more subtle like Hey, I'm getting a little hungry. Hey, is it about time for a meal? You know, but then we're not listening. And then all of a sudden it's like hitting us over the head with like, you must eat now. And ⁓ and then when we start a meal or a snack with that sort of level of unpleasant f hunger, it is it is a biological imperative to eat. Our cells are like, hello, we were just starving, you must eat now. And then we're it's hard to land at a comfortable, pleasant level of fullness. Right. And then we end up in this like maybe uncomfortable, maybe unpleasant level of fullness. And it kind of reinforces like, ⁓ I don't know how to feed myself. I always do this. I always eat too much. Right. Like we have experiences like that that that erode our trust in ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. This is also like it's so interesting to think about. ⁓ you know, when we have one of the things that's hard for me, especially ⁓ especially during times where it is a celebration. Like for me, so much of like I do get so much pleasure from food. I love food. I love enjoying it. The holidays are like mo I mean I'm not unique in this, but like there's such a time that I want to be celebrating and enjoying and all the food. But then there's just like this, you know, this like underlying shame and worry and fear that is just present. And so it's like You know, part of it is like I don't know, just I think the slowing down and savoring and letting yourself enjoy something and and and and get that sense of celebration. Which, you know, if you if you think about a a holiday like Christmas, you know, that was the time way back when when they would actually like pull out the s the sweets, you know, they would save the the berries and all that for this like special time. So I think there's something inside of us that is like We celebrate with food. Like you know, we celebrate with this food. And so and now in the world that we live in where it's just like abundance, you know, there's you have so much access to calories, it's like finding that balance of letting food still be a part of the celebration, but then not just like I I don't know, that's where I struggle because I'm like, but look at it all. I want it all because it's a celebration and it brings me pleasure. But then like, you know, how to how to just say, ⁓ You know. Well and then a lot of times what happens with the celebration is we we celebrate, you know, we eat eat and eat eat and then we're like, ⁓ And then you're like, ⁓ god, I just ate all the potato and the stuffy. And the mashed potatoes and the mashed and two pieces of pie. Yeah, and then suddenly, you know, that the again that whole shame cycle comes in, you know, like you shame yourself, you know, that's you bad girl, like what have you done? You have no control. control and then you go into the then that sh I shifts some of us into the restrictive side of course but then that's how we get into that fear. Yo, I was gonna say and that's and and and it's not like we're worried that ⁓ my gosh I just ate all this my body is not going to be able to digest it. I'm gonna literally explode. That's you know that's not what we're worried about. No. Yeah we're worried that I did this and now my body's gonna change as a result or my health's gonna suffer as a result. ⁓ and really you know, I understand why our minds go to that place. That's sort of how how we're conditioned to think about food. but I I like to think about it. So I have two four year olds, right? And ⁓ we're you're given the advice when you have young kids ⁓ and you're trying to raise them as intuitive eaters that you know, don't look at one meal, don't look at one day of what they eat, look at the week. Did they get a couple of vet servings of vegetables over the week? Did they, you know, because you know, a toddler or preschool might Preschooler might eat like a tiny little breakfast, giant little giant dinner, right? So when does that stop applying to people? Right? Like if we eat a big meal one day, you might wake up the next day and be like, hmm, I'm I'm like moderately hungry, right? I think I think we can trust our bodies a little bit more to regulate ourselves and our appetites over time. ⁓ and we don't have to feel like we are responsible for controlling our intake, you know, or else. Right. I think that that's really cool. I also would love to hear your thoughts on like I really ⁓ I I like to believe ⁓ that the energy that we give to food is the energy that we then receive when we eat it. And so like an example,

great example for Bernice is and maybe you've heard this on past podcasts, but like She knows that like a couple peanut MMs are gonna change her life. And they do. But if you look at it from a nutritional standpoint, you may be like, yeah, that's not actually gonna be the food that is like most nourishing or has the, you know, it it's that's probably not the food that you should be eating right now. Also, like you should see this woman with like a a bottle of Coca-Cola. Like, she'll just take like the tiniest little sip and then she'll screw the lid back on, and then she'll be like, ⁓ I feel so much better. And so I've watched her for the past many years and I've watched her like ritualize these things. So it's really becoming this ritual where you could look at it and be like, that's you know, Coca-Cola and MM's like, lady, if your body doesn't feel good right now, don't feed it garbage. But watching her, it's like she has placed this importance on this food, and in turn it actually makes her feel good. So what's that about? Yeah. Well I I to me that speaks to how food is certainly biological, right? So food like you were saying, like there's macronutrients and micronutrients and all of that jazz that we're taking in. But it's also a psychological process. Eating is very is both. of those things. So that's what that that's what I hear there is that there's that there's both going on, right? Like when we're satisfied by a food, it could it's the taste and it's the, you know, is it is there protein and fat and carb, carbohydrates, but it it's it's more than that too. It's like, did my grandmother used to make this when I was growing up and it holds significance for me? Right. There food is we're human and food is meant to Food is meant to enrich our lives and it doesn't do that just by acting as fuel for our bodies. It it does that by providing pleasure and providing a social experience and just in in so many different ways. and I wish I wish that I wish that we could view it a little more neutrally, right? I I feel like I feel like all of our lives would be better if food didn't contain if we didn't have foods that were labeled superfoods. And we didn't have foods that were labeled junk food. ⁓ intuitive eating actually likes to use ⁓ play foods because there's no arguing that when you look at a slice of apple pie and when you look at an apple, they're they have different nutritional content, they're chemically different, right? but it's it's a much more complex equation into how it's gonna be assimilated in your body and for each person. you know, for one person the right choice might be the apple in that moment. For the other person the right choice might be the pie, right? Like how how b how satiate satiating of a meal or snack do you need? You know, there's so many different factors. And so it's it's just so much more complicated than saying this food's good, this food's bad. ⁓ Yeah. That's such a good point. I when I I I became I was an anorexic in my teens and early twenties and I learned I learned anorexia by comparing Comparing my eating to another friend of mine. So we I did comparison eating. Yeah. And I had never seen this. I had never seen someone be able to restrict their diet so far. Like I was like, whoa. And then it became like a competition, like how restrictive could we be? Without even talking about it. It was a hidden thing. So ⁓ how interesting. Yeah. Isn't it interesting? So I I learned the I learned that eating disorder from doing comparison. eating. And then after I had my first child, what so I had been I was very successful as a restrictive eater, one would say. Very restrictive diet. I wasn't happy, I don't think, and I had a tremendous amount of stress and emotional and me my mental health probably wasn't very good. Then I had a baby and what happened was after my first child my blood sugar got messed up. And probably one of the reasons it got messed up is because I had been an anorexic for so long that and I couldn't sustain it after having a baby and breastfeeding. So suddenly it was like my body came in and was like, you need to pay attention to cues. Hmm. You need to pay attention to your body cues because I would not listen to it and then suddenly I'd be like we'd be at a store going to buy food, but I had waited too long and I was gonna faint. Yeah. Turned up the volume a little bit on all sensations. Yeah. Like you better listen to this. And so now I'm so appreciative because I feel like, and you can maybe talk to this, Chelsea, in terms of listening to our body cues, t tuning into am I hungry? What am I hungry for? And then also, am I satiated? Do I feel full now? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I think. The, you know, I know that on the OLA online studio, we have a wonderful collection of mindfulness moments. So I think if people are participating in that or familiar with that, they're gonna be well equipped to do this. ⁓ the specific part of mindfulness that intuitive eating builds on is called interoceptive awareness. So all that means is our internal body sensations. So if you're tired, you're gonna have some interoceptive awareness. interoception going on if you're thirsty, if you have to pee, if you're hungry, if you're full. and intuitive eating asks us to really take down the barriers that are getting in the way of our being able to hear those signals. And those barriers could be thoughts and rules around food, ⁓ you know, thoughts about how our body should look and how we need to change it to look in a certain way. ⁓ and and then those the barriers could actually be ⁓ even just trauma and and not feeling comfortable pausing and and feeling the sensations that your body is is feeling in that moment. So it it's not it's not an easy thing, like I was saying, and it's kind of a messy process on how to get there. ⁓ but that's ultimately that's ultimately at the heart of intuitive eating. It would be awesome if you could record one of those sessions

for the mindfulness moments. Absolutely. Yeah, I know just the one I would start with. And I I'll give you a little spoiler alert if you if people listening to this wanted to try this right now at home. One the gold standard in the research world of how how tuned in are you to your interoceptive awareness is to try to feel your heartbeat without touching your body, without feeling your pulse. So if you, you know, you can start by sitting and feeling your pulse and just reminding yourself sort of the rhythm of your heartbeat. But then you take your hands away, you sit quietly and you see where can I feel my heartbeat in my body? Or can I? It's kind of tricky. For me at least. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ that's a great one to try. ⁓ so for for me, I'm I'm kind of understanding this like it may be a little bit of okay. So if we can just let me back up and and and show you kind of where I'm trying to get with this. Is the end goal for me would to be to let my body be whatever shape that it naturally is at if I'm intuitively eating, I'm not restricting, I'm not on a diet, I'm not overeating, and just letting myself be at the weight that it naturally wants to be. So it seems to me that there's it's kind of two part. One is to figure out how to intuitively eat and actually go through that process of listening for the cues. And then the second part, which I actually feel like I'm pretty good at, you know, when you just even said your heartbeat thing, like I can im I I can feel like I'm very aware of how my body feels. That's just I I am. This the second piece of this though, is like, how can I love myself? How can I love my body if it's actually healthy at a shape that I don't want it to be at? And so I was thinking about this in terms of like I'm on the road because like I in December, like and I'm crying, I guess, like right now, but like I made a choice not to weigh myself. And I used to weigh myself every morning. And I haven't been on a scale since December. And it's scare it feels scary for me. One, 'cause I feel like I've lost control because I don't know how much I weigh. And I used to start the day knowing, like, I know. I know if I overate. Like, I know. It showed me. And I know what I can do to correct. I know what I can do. But for me now, I have lost control because I don't even know how much I weigh. So I'm in that first step of not looking at the scale and being more in the intuitive eating. But now the next piece of it is like if your body changes, getting to that place of acceptance and self love when you know you're doing actually what's right for you. Yeah. I hear that struggle. ⁓ my gosh. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing it. And it it is a challenge to let go of that number, right? Because there's a safety there in in just knowing, right? Like even if you feel like the number is too high, right? Like even if you know, like, okay, this is higher than my doctor says it needs to be or whatever, ⁓ there's a safety waking up and saying, like, okay, I got that. So that it's a hard piece to let go of. and I hear your question. And I'm not sure I have a satisfying answer because of the world we live in. And I know you're both so aware that ⁓ we live in a very fat phobic society where and it's not just in sort of beauty standards and and and that area of life, it's it's in the medical community too, which is part of the reason that I as a registered nurse feel so strongly about the health at every size movement. ⁓ because you know Research has shown us again and again that when people try to control their body weight and lose a dramatic amount of weight, they might be successful for a period. but within five years they're probably gonna be above the weight that they started at. So, you know, our our our models of weight loss and trying to control our weight actually don't ha aren't proven effective. And yet the medical community still says, You're overweight, you need to lose weight for your health, right? So So we have not only beauty standards and you know, as I'm sure even though Ula is so weight inclusive, I'm sure as someone on a camera dancing in front of people, you have to be so aware of how your body looks, right? Yeah, you know, like every single week, like it we have you know, we upload choreography every single week. It's like you just have this like tenure track of your body and his changes. And the funny thing is, like with Ula, Ula, like It's not it's not about how it looks, it's about how it feels. And so Ula for me has been so important because it is that hour of the day where I can actually like anchor back into these deeper truths and to these deeper into this deeper connection that I have ⁓ to myself and to you know where without Ula, you know, I c I c it I can feel it, like I can feel that I I can't drop back down into that place as easily. And so I so appreciate that about Lula. And the funny thing is like I don't look at anybody else's body. Like I really I don't, you know, there's there's so many people I think right now during COVID who have been like, and I've gained twenty pounds. I'm like I don't know. Like no one can tell. But then if I gained like three pounds, I would be like, everybody can notice. You know, it's like it's so d like why do we do that? Like who even can't like It's just like frustrating that it's that we can give grace or not even care. Like we don't even give attention to other people's bodies. But then when it's our own, it's like micromanaging. It's so it's so weird, like, you know, how this just I feel like is programmed into you know, we're just like part of this like system. You're like, Okay, this is the system. Yeah. We're really good. We're really good people in the system too. It's like we wanna meet the needs of the system and the system says, You can't be fat. And it's like, well, what is fat? What does that mean? It's all sometimes I'm like, am I fat now? I don't know. Am I? I know. You're like, isn't I don't know. Is it fat? I

don't you know, it's a weird, like it's all it's like nebulous. Whoa, where is it? You know, and it is well, you're so right. It's it's completely arbitrary. And even you know, even the BMI. I forget what year it was, but it's in the it's in recent history. I mean, it's in recent history when we started using the BMI to say this is a standard for health, but within I want to say the last twenty, twenty-five years, when they changed the BMI cutoff for normal versus overweight. And and then overnight, right? Like one day you're in one category, the next day you're in the next, and just from the f the swish of a pen, right? Like so it means absolutely nothing. Absolutely. That that's yeah, all yesterday. Not yesterday wasn't today. Yeah. Exactly. Well, and I I also want to acknowledge that, you know, that our our conversation is reminding me that ultimately to be able to practice intuitive eating is a privilege in many, many ways. So first of all, I I'm able to buy clothes, you know, well, when I went to stores but I'm able to buy clothes from the store, right? ⁓ straight size. ⁓ so I I have a level of thin privilege. And if I gained five pounds through by practicing intuitive eating and that's the the set point weight that my body's happy at, I'm not gonna suffer the repercussions of when I go to the doctor, you know, getting fat shamed or you know, judgment of people. So there's there's a bit of privilege there. Whereas a person who maybe is already living in a larger body, if they were to gain weight doing intuitive eating, there would be so much health trolling, like I'm really worried about you. It seems like you gained weight. So there's that privilege. There's also the privilege that, you know, first of all, like you were saying, Kaylee, that we that you have the time to sit and listen to your body, that you have the time to sit and enjoy a meal. Not everyone has that time. And then food security, right? Because we're talking about how we I I talked earlier about how when you deprive yourself of food, when you restrict, you're gonna have that backlash and wanna, you know, have loss of control eating or binging. Well, some people have food security due to financial insecurity. Right. So they don't they don't have enough food in the day to day life and they also ⁓ experience that sort of cycle. ⁓ but it's not not a choice, right? So I I'm I don't know what what exactly you said that led me down that road, but I just wanted to say those things. Thanks for bringing that up. I think that that's a r I think that that's a really good point. do you see like in your work Do you see any of this changing anytime soon? Like do you feel a change? Because I, you know, ⁓ when I get like ⁓ athleta ads, you know, I I'm seeing a lot more body diversity in ads now, which is I think really ⁓ it feels positive to me, but you know, I'm just like a I'm getting catalogs and seeing ads and stuff. Do you feel like things are changing? Yeah, I do have hope. I do have hope. I I think the the anti-diet moving movement is gaining steam and you know there's more attention in the research world, which helps clinicians like myself accept it as evidence-based care. ⁓ but I also have hope because I think lots of women and men too, but lots of parents are choosing to break the cycle that's been passed on generationally of you know, dieting, restricting ⁓ that type of eating. So I have hope that future generations are gonna have less of an issue with this for for the reasons you said for because there's more inclusivity right now and and emphasis on including body diversity, but also because individuals are making the choice. Like, I don't want my child to go through this same difficult relationship with food that I've gone through my whole life. I want to break that cycle. Yeah, I think that this is w how it ties so into why self love is really important and the importance of actually learning these these like I I'm committed to loving myself in my body because I think it comes out in ways that we don't even know that we're passing on to our kids. I mean, there are things that I'm doing as a parent that my husband and I have, like, we never talk about bodies. We never talk about like, you know, any of that stuff. I I know those things. ⁓ but I think even if it's still in our psyche, like it it can get, you know, it can get passed down in ways like this is no this is absolutely no offense to my parents or anything like this. But we're very much complimented on our bodies or not. And I have really ⁓ I've really enjoyed those compliments when I've gotten them, you know, and then it's like if I don't get a compliment, then I'm like, ⁓ maybe I maybe I've yeah, maybe I've like, you know, let myself go or whatever. And so it is kind of interesting too, like what the people that you surround yourself with speak about. Like even if it's in the form of a compliment. Like I've learned that that it it actually it's not healthy for me to get compliments on my body because then I will, you know, I'll be like those are like, ⁓ it then I'm like craving that compliment and it's like stop. But it came from somewhere. You know, it came from somewhere that's like I want that compliment. Want it. Like I want the compliment. And so, you know, ⁓ don't know, I just think the word we speak, the you know, just there's so much power And it's so hard to like stand in your own truth when every other truth out there or every other thing out there is like telling something differently, you know? Like I think it's really hard. Body confidence is really fucking hard. I'm just gonna say Absolutely. Yes, it really is. I mean, ⁓ from the time we are teeny tiny, we get this message that your appearance is very important, right? And your appearance is tied so closely to your value and your worth. There are twin sisters named Lexi and Lindsay Kite who have their PhDs in health literacy and body image. And their organization, Beauty Redefined, has this

wonderful catchphrase, my body is an instrument, not an ornament. Right. So the more we can convey that to ourselves, the more we can convey that to our children, the more we can sort of tease apart our value from how we look and and that will go so far in allowing people to have authentic health where they are able to care for themselves ⁓ in a way that treats them, you know, treats every part of their health as important. Yeah. ⁓ I love that. I love that authentic health too, you know, not ⁓ not perceived health or, you know, really because there are many there are just so many ways to see health in a body versus what we what we're what is preconceived as healthy, where it's like, you know, you could have the thinnest person and they they may not be they may not be healthy. Right. Absolutely. Or they may not be healthy in their their mind. Like, ⁓ D do you watch the show This Is ⁓ I know the show, but I don't actually watch it. So I don't really watch it anymore either. But there there was this I don't know, it w it was like a, you know, ⁓ an eating group or whatever and there was one woman who was like so, so skinny in it. You know, and everybody else had bigger bodies and They were just like basically like, Screw like Are you get out of here? Like what are you? But I thought it brought up a really good point that it doesn't actually matter the shape of your body for you to still have like, you know, either body dysmorphia or just just not, you know, just not ⁓ I don't know, great mental health around your body. How do you say that? Right, 'cause you don't have you don't feel good. Right. You know, the person like my my mother in law was anorexic. When she was eighty. You know, it was like you're so deeply entrenched that was so deeply entrenched. It was like until she got Alzheimer's and then forgot that she was entrenched in in anarchy. Yeah. And then she's like, ⁓ great. And then her body to a normal size for it definitely looked like fur body. Like it's how her body should be. But it was just to I was just I remember seeing her when I was younger suffering the same thing. I'm like, I do not want to be eighty years old and still doing this restrictive thing. I don't wanna be Yeah anymore. So be how how did you do it? 'Cause I knew from a physical standpoint you had to eat different. Like you were passing out. You like you you couldn't keep doing it. So how did you how did you recover your your ⁓ your mind around it all, you know, like because those are it's just like you know the r the road this is what you do. This is what you do. So how did you and are you out of it fully? And like I mean, will you talk about that? Yeah, I think I think, you know, because of the degree of ⁓ hypoglycemia, the way it affected me, it made it so I would try and do it. I would keep trying to go back, like okay I'm not gonna do anything. I'm not gonna eat anything or I'm gonna restrict myself to like a quarter of a sandwich. And then suddenly As a mom, as a as

a mom, as a breastfeeding mom. And then an hour or two I'd be like like I would get up and faint. And then everyone's like, you know, you gotta you're you know, yeah, you can't function this way. Mm-hmm. And it was almost like what you said, Chelsea, is I became hyper aware of my body, like of my heart rate, of my breathing. It was almost like everything it was like pay attention. You have not been paying attention. For a long time. And now it was like my body's like, you're gonna pay attention. And it was it to me, it was the worst thing that ever happened to me because of course I I had to eat intuitively. Right. Yeah. I had to bring jars of peanut butter and jelly and everyone's like one time we were like out at dinner and I hadn't eaten in a while. I was with friends and didn't know I had this issue. And so I started making a peanut butter sandwich as we're waiting to sit down for dinner. And she would like put the peanut butter in ⁓ that's great, Steve. Like and you And so then I was making it at the you know, right with the the person's stand and I'm like eating the sandwich and my girlfriend's like, We're going to eat and like I can't and I'm like, Unfortunately, if I wait that long, I will be on the floor here. Right. And it was right Yeah. It was it was it's like you're in a nice restaurant and you're eating a peanut butter. Before we sit down. And I'm like, that's exactly right. And you know, I got ton of shame about that from people, like from friends. Everyone was very there there was a lot like, Why do you have to have all this food? And you can have food in, you know, an hour. And I'm like, ⁓ I want food now, because I right now I need to eat a little bit of this. And I'll be able to function fine. And I'll be able to listen to you and participate in Right. You want me to eat this peanut butter sandwich just so you know. Just so you know. It's gonna be bad if I don't eat And it's and that's what the peanut I peanut MCs are like Go ahead, go ahead, Chelsea. Well, I I was wondering too, because this for my personal story, I think this was a a pivotal point for me. I was wondering too of becoming a mother, maybe that sort of identity shift. Maybe your priorities suddenly looked a little bit different. Because I know for me, I felt ⁓ I felt really motivated to completely leave behind that sort of dieting weight loss lifestyle when I had two little girls, right? And obviously whatever gender child you have, it's important. These concepts are really important. ⁓ but something about having girls especially ⁓ was really motivating for me. Like I am not I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna role model that that's how women eat and treat their bodies and ⁓ so that that that was helpful for me and I wonder wonder if it was part of your story too. That's a really good point. I I saw I was in therapy at the time when it was starting to happen. I went into therapy because I was like, you know what's happening to me? This hasn't been

an issue before. And one of the things that came up in therapy was that I had a tremendous amount of stress and somehow moving into having a baby this next phase of my life is kind of revealed that that transition kind of brought it all up to the surface. And ⁓ so part of that eating behavior ⁓ was like, okay, so you're in a transition and it it really brought up that my mental health had deteriorated. And so it was real so it was like the it was like then intuitively you need to pay attention that you're in this transitional shift. To another phase of your life. And and how do you feel about your body? And how do you feel about your health? And, you know, how do you feel about ⁓ being ⁓ also because as women, you know, the transition for me, I think some of the anorexia was about staying an adolescent, staying a child, ⁓ and transitioning into a f a woman, a woman body. And I wasn't comfortable with kind of taking on that. responsibility of transitioning into a woman body interesting versus ⁓ versus a child body so again all those is kind of integrated and that's the beauty of intuitive eating is that you can kind of start to look at at the again what Chelsea said kind of the the deeper deeper stuff underneath right the eating right yeah I think that's what this conversation is really highlighting Is that if it was just about the biological, I eat when I'm hungry, I stop when I'm full, intuitive eating would not be hard, right? You know, may maybe it still would be a little hard, but not not as hard as all this, right? When you add in the humanity, when you add in the expectations we have for our body and regulation of our own emotions, right? That's so intertwined with with eating and food and the stress and anxiety in our daily lives. So yeah, that's The human part is the hard part of intuitive beating. Right. And I I think too, like I have three little girls and so it's really important to me that they don't, you know, that if they're gonna I mean, it's so hard 'cause you wanna protect them from the outside world as well and there's only so much we can protect them from. But I I do not want their issues to come from me. And if I you know, so it's like been really important We all all five of us share bathrooms. Everyone's like, you know, naked, coming in and out of the shower, whatever. And I just like, you know, it's just like it's really important for me that it's like, this is my body and you know, we don't talk about it. We don't like you know, and and so it's but I do have it I do have fear of like when are they gonna start hearing it from other people? Like, when does it ha like I keep waiting, my oldest is six and I'm like, When's it g When does it when do they start? When is it gonna happen? Like when is she gonna get insecure? When is she gonna, you know, I I don't know. I just am like so wanting to hold her back from any of the pain that I felt too as a kid because I was not thin as a child and I know how painful it felt. Like I know the suffering that I had from an ⁓ early age. And so it's like as a parent, you like wanna protect them from that suffering and then you get so frustrated that the system is set up, like everything is in place that at some point I I'm guessing my daughters will feel, you know, I I don't know, shame or whatever it is. I hope not. And I I you know, I I hope I hope that they don't, but I don't know. It just feels like it happens so young these days with with kids too. I don't know, they haven't started talking yet. It does feel inevitable. ⁓ I know. I know. And ultimately I think that, you know, that we could say that about a lot of different a lot of different areas of growing up too, right? Food is one of them and body image is one of them. ⁓ but with as our children grow, my hope is that we have this solid foundation at home and we have these open lines of communication and And that we'll be able to have conversations as these things come up. ⁓ and there there are some things that we can do as parents to sort of be proactive, you know, in talking about body diversity ⁓ or the lack thereof, like as you're watching media with your kids, like saying, huh, this is so interesting. Are you noticing how they made comments about that person's ⁓ body? You know, what do we think about that? So we can we can do a little bit of work around it before. It happens, but I I hear you, Kaylee. It just it does feel like it's just a matter of time, ⁓ especially with with little girls before they're gonna feel some shame around their body. Mm-hmm. And I think like it's you know, it's also yeah, like empowering them in ways where the body isn't such a big priority. Like ⁓ you know, I'm thinking about I just feel like and again I'm sorry if my parents are listening, but I feel like it was a Priority in our house. I could see it was important to my parents what their bodies looked like. And so I think I was taught that it's important what our bodies look like. So maybe, you know, if you don't put so much emphasis on something that when you get that negative feedback or whatever, then if it's not such an important thing, then maybe the negative feedback won't feel so big. You know, I'm just thinking about like, I don't you like if you get a see on a math test and we're like, well math's you know, math's important, but math, your math doesn't define you as a person or your value. You know, it's like, can we can we think about it just as we do the you know, you're not the best skier. But guess what? We haven't, you know, your parents aren't Olympian skiers and so we haven't said you're gonna be a good skier and then you're not, you have all this shame. So maybe if we can it i i as a family like that bodies don't have really that much importance, then if there is anything that they're feeling they're like, okay, well Not that important. And I think that the question we can ask ourselves is can we do this work internally so that we really believe that that's true for

ourselves? Right? Like if we want our children to just feel it as like a little, as a little sting if they get a a comment, a negative comment about their appearance versus detrimental to their total self worth, right? Are we in a place where that could be true for us too? That's really hard. Totally. And I think going again to I am love, this self-love piece, like it's one thing to think about that, but it's another, like you're saying, Chelsea, to deeply be rooted and grounded in that truth. Because I'm realizing like if someone would say it to my kid, it would I would have a reaction too, because I would know how bad it's hurt me in the past. And so if I can get to that. Wait, whatever, of like, you know what? This is, you know, I'm grounded in this. Then, you know, I think that that I think that that all plays into it, this this importance of owning this as our truth. And then, you know, I I think energetically things change from that place. In terms of dancing, it's so funny that you say with the ⁓ with the not being an ornament. I was I was thinking about the other day when I was dancing, and it was a a similar thought. I said, And to my to myself, I said to myself, like, if the body is a tool, you don't like you're not like, let's say, sharpening a tool so that you have a sharp tool. You sharpen a tool so that the tool will be effective for whatever work you need the tool for. And so if my body is my tool, that's a very unelegant word for it, but if my body is a tool and I'm using my body and I'm strengthening and I'm lengthening and I'm exploring it. It's not so I have a sharp tool. It's so I have a tool that can then go and work, do the things out in the rest of my life that I want to do, that I need a healthy body for, that I need strength for, that I need flexibility for. Like that. And I was like, ⁓ yeah, it's like you don't strengthen the tool to have a or you don't sharpen the tool, so you have a sharp tool. Like and you just look at it. And then you're like, ⁓ you're sharp. That's how sharp you are. That is really sharp. You're so sharp. No, you're like, I want to go. And they're like, ⁓ Really sharp tool. I know, super sharp. I don't ever use it, but it's sharp. Exactly. Yeah, I think. And it's like That's right. I don't enjoy it. Yeah. Beautifully put. Yeah. I'm just up here on this pedestal on this social media picture. Yeah. I could really cut down some trees with this sharp axe, but I'm not going to. Not going to, because I prefer the compliments for it. Yeah, exactly. It's just so, yeah. It's it's so wild. God, the body. But it's it is the yeah. It's the water that we swim in, you know? So it just feels normal to think about our bodies that way because that is the world we live in. So yeah, this shift in thinking about our bodies this way, this shift in having trust that we're able to eat and a piece about food, so it's not of ⁓ such utmost importance, ⁓ it's it's pretty counter cultural. And I think For some people hearing this for the first time, it might not make a lot of sense and they might need to ⁓ to think on it and and might might want a little more information about it because it is different from from what we hear every day. Yeah. And we're gonna add the the podcast that you recommended, plus the the book, Intuitive Eating. And they also have the Intuitive Eating Workbook as well. Yeah, which that's awesome. So people can do further work. in this area for themselves and for their children for future generation. My favorite is actually the workbook. So if someone's if someone, you know, the the podcast is fantastic. You can take an hour and you can learn all about it. And if you decide that this is something I want to try practicing in my life, I would say go straight to the workbook because it takes you through the 10 principles of intuitive eating and has a ton of different activities on how how does this actually work in my life because I think myself ⁓ and many people, the first time you hear about it, you're like, ⁓ I get it. I get it. I can do this. I want to do this. And you probably get it intellectually, but you haven't actually experienced it. It's like, it's like if you, you know, you read a book about how to play the guitar, right? You're like, I totally get how to play the guitar. I'm gonna be amazing at playing the guitar. And then you pick it up and you're like, ⁓ but well. This is hard. You know, you haven't actually put in any time practicing. So you can't play the guitar yet. So the workbook is what's going to give you those little practice exercises that that allow you to actually practice it and experience it. That's awesome. Yeah. I thank you. Thank you for these ⁓ great resources to just to like integrate the work. Yeah, not just like understanding it intellectually, but to actually integrate it. It just reminds me of the the quote, like be the change you wish to see in the world. You know, if we want this if we want this world to change where it's not so focused on how we look and, you know, we have we have to go there in ourselves first. You know, we I think so many of us want things to change about how the world is structured and how we're supposed to see ourselves and You know, if if we ⁓ if we can be part of that change by having it be an insider job. If everyone made this an insider job, you know, like maybe this is how things will actually begin to change. So I really appreciate the the opportunity to reflect on this and it's big stuff. Yeah. And I just wanna say it's the and it's the little things that we do that will make the difference. So Kaylee, the not weighing yourself, the throwing out the scale, like that's i i we talked about how that does feel like a big action. and even though it's just a small change, it does have a big effect, right? And if we don't compliment that person on their weight loss, that's a big change. And that will help move us as a culture away from what we're talking about today. If we don't label that dessert as sinful and bad, you know, these all these little things, they do add up. And in our conversations and relationships with each other, it will help to move the needle. Thanks, Chelsea. Chelsea, that's been very, very helpful and informative conversation for for us, for me. I think for you two kids. Yeah, you think? I think it's been important for her. ⁓ I th I thank you so much for taking the time to have the conversation and being open to it. I know that ⁓ listening from your past podcasts, I know it's it's not things that are completely new, but The more we have the conversation, the more natural it will feel. Absolutely. Good point. Yes. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you. And I love that we get a dance with you and we haven't met you. It's like one of the one of the blessings of COVID. Well, thank you so much. And ⁓ yeah, I'm sure everyone really, really enjoyed this episode. I know we did. We did. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.