Full Transcript for Joe Matera

that you just wrote this book about um that just came out, it's fresh, uh, The Making of ABBA, the story behind the band's 1975 breakthrough album. 00:04:54.079 --> 00:05:03.040 It it when you listen to that record, you it's it's it's hot apple pie with cream on top. 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:04.879 It's it's so well produced. 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:08.560 I mean, it's undeniable how delicious it is sonically. 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:10.720 It's undeniable. 00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:11.839 That's a good description. 00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:17.279 Nobody can nobody can deny how how how powerful that that production is. 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:18.240 And the song. 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:20.480 The song just really, really works. 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:34.079 And I think it's it's interesting because I think around that time is when the band and the writing and the writers, which were not just Benny and Bjorn, but also their manager who wrote a lot of their lyrics, Stig Anderson, who's also an Anderson. 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:35.519 Stig Anderson, that's correct. 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:40.000 Yeah, uh, they really reached a new level, I think, as as writers. 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:42.639 I mean, they were still really young, I mean, they were in their 20s. 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:43.519 That's right. 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:46.240 You know, so all right, so I've talked enough. 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:49.360 I could talk, I could go on and on, but there's so many questions I have for you. 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:51.360 First of all, congratulations on the book. 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:52.000 And what do you think? 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:53.040 Okay, thank you so much for that. 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:53.680 I really appreciate it. 00:05:53.920 --> 00:05:58.000 Sure thing, and thank you for contacting me about my one of my favorites of all time. 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:01.920 And uh, so how long did it take you to write this book? 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:10.800 Okay, so just before I answer that question, I'll just go back to what you mentioned earlier about you know when ABBA uh was very uncool during the 80s after they split when you mentioned to people. 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:17.759 Now it's interesting as you mentioned that now in recent years, all these people coming out and you know saying they really loved ABBA. 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:23.040 And one of the biggest things that um that I also mentioned in my book is the punk movement. 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:30.240 Now, back then, nobody in the punk movement would have ever admitted that ABBA um they were you know that they loved ABBA. 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:37.360 But now we the sex pistols, for example, have come forward over the recent years and have admitted that they truly loved ABBA. 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:39.759 And um I mean Glenn Matlock. 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:48.959 Yes, that's right, Glenn Matlock um admitted that he uh he stole the rift to uh SOS for Pretty Vacant, inspired him to write Pretty Vacant.

00:06:49.120 --> 00:07:17.279 Um Johnny uh Johnny Rotten has mentioned the story about Sid Vicious being a huge um ABBBA fan, and there's a story where the Sex Pistols were in Scandinavia and they uh arrived at the airport, and um Abba happened to be at the down in the same sort of airport, and Sid Vicious saw him from a distance and he just started running towards him, yelling, I love ABBA, I love ABBA, and Abba was sort of who is this madden come towards us? 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:18.800 They got escorted away. 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:32.480 But um, and and and and then tour van, I mean the the the roadie has mentioned um in numerous interviews that the only cassette they had in the tour van while they were touring um you know in England as Sex Pistols were the the greatest hits of ABBA. 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:36.319 I mean, you know, who would have thought these punk icons were influenced by ABBA? 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:40.560 You know what's funny is is that ABBA did not know who they were. 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:41.360 That's right. 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:42.560 Yes, absolutely, isn't it? 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:55.279 I mean, like, you know, the Sex Pistols were laid, you know, the groundwork for so many other bands, but obviously, but okay, and um, so now how long did it take me to write the book? 00:07:55.439 --> 00:07:56.399 Well, tell me about it. 00:07:56.480 --> 00:08:04.639 Uh I mean, I went to Stockholm, I've been to Stockholm quite a few times, and uh, so I interviewed some of the remaining musicians that were on the album. 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:08.879 So Jan Schaffer is one of them, who's um my name's like Janna. 00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:11.360 Janna, that's right, yes, that's correct. 00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:18.720 And uh he he played the git one of the lead guitarists on uh a lot of those tracks on that album and and many other albums too. 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:21.600 And uh I also went to uh Benny Studio. 00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:28.240 Um Benny and and Bjorn do know about my book, um, so they say they gave me their blessing, which is really good. 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:31.759 Um, but Bjorn was very kind to answer a few questions for me. 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:45.759 Um so yeah, look, it it took me about a year to write the book and research it and put it together, and then obviously it's taken quite a few uh probably another six months before the book came out for the publisher as they go through the you know proofreading and then putting it together. 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:50.240 So it just came out um, like you said, just uh what last month came out in the US. 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:51.919 So um I'm pretty happy with it. 00:08:52.000 --> 00:09:02.960 It came out in the in the UK and Sweden uh late last year, end of October, and it went to number one in Sweden on the Amazon music book chart, which was what absolutely you know amazing. 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:04.879 Um yeah, thank you. 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:18.559 And uh and actually sold out of his first print run, so it's now in its second print run already, which is so that's you know shows you the the the the amount of um interest in the band, you know, even after 50 years later, people still want to hear ABBA. 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:20.879 Good things take time, they really do. 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:21.440 That's correct. 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:22.720 Music takes time. 00:09:22.960 --> 00:09:28.080 So so next question for you why this album? 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:31.919 Why the self-titled ABBA album, which was their third? 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:38.720 As far as I remember, Ring Ring was the first album, but that wasn't really intended to be an album. 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:54.000 Because Waterloo, which was their big Eurovision hit in 1974, they were in I I I I actually read up on this and I didn't know this that ABBA uh uh competed in the Eurovision song contest twice. 00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:54.960 That's correct, yeah. 00:09:55.279 --> 00:10:06.960 Because in 73 they competed with Ring Ring, I think that song, and then and and didn't win or didn't you know whatever, didn't make it, but the next year they won with Waterloo. 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:12.879 But the first album not really intended to be a record can Yeah, it was that's right. 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:20.799 And I mean, if you it was actually released under their names, which was um Agnetta, uh Benny, Bjorn, and Anna Frid. 00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:28.159 So you know, so when you look at the cover, so later on, some of I think some of the later press ins had ABBA, but basically they were under the four names. 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:30.799 Because it was they just started sort of um put together. 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:39.519 I mean, their very the very first ABBA track that was officially released was um Um People Need Love, which is when you listen to it, it's a great pop sort of folky song. 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:48.879 And were the just uh quickly to interject, were the w the the A and B's Anna, uh I mean uh Anna Um uh Frida and Benny and Bjorn, were they married already? 00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:49.919 Were they were they covered? 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:51.039 Oh engaged at that time. 00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:59.360 I mean, um by the time off the first album, Bjorn and Agnetta were married, and um Frida and Benny were engaged. 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:00.000 Uh-huh. 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:00.480 Okay. 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:02.080 Yeah, go on, sorry. 00:11:02.720 --> 00:11:06.240 Yeah, um yeah, so the the third album, why did I pick this third album? 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:10.080 Well, first of all, it's the album I bought when it first came out at the age of 10. 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:12.799 Um, and I fell in love with VAVA because of this album. 00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:16.000 So, you know, it was it was played non-stop in my household. 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:18.559 My grandmother loved it, my parents loved it. 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:28.559 It it was

like right across the board, all age groups loved it, and um especially in Australia when you know it became such a there was abominia because of the album and what happened later on. 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:33.200 So, but um another reason why I chose this album is because you mentioned the first two albums. 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:40.960 On the first two albums, if you listen very carefully, they were sort of searching for their sound, trying to find their identity, you know, and they that were getting pretty close to it. 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:46.080 I mean there's some songs in there you can actually hear it, but you can tell there's very much a lot of sort of experimental. 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:59.759 But this third album was when they really found their sound, their identity, um, where it all came together, and then um it set it in stone for the next album, which was Arrival, which is when they really break out superstar sort of thing. 00:11:59.840 --> 00:12:12.320 But this album was what that what came before that, and it's so important because it is a breakthrough album because uh it's from this album that they basically started having commercial success all around the world. 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:22.399 Australia was the first one with um when they released the uh I Do, I Do, I Do, I Do and Mamma Mia, and then after that, England followed suit, and then all the other countries. 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:27.120 And in America, that actually was um Dancing Queen was their very first number one. 00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:35.039 But um, so yeah, it's a very important album in their catalogue and one that really defined who they were and where where they were gonna go. 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:35.519 Yeah. 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:49.039 So I also read up that uh I didn't I didn't know this either, but SOS, the one of the singles off of that album, off ABBA, uh the uh the album that you wrote the book about was a chart success in the United States. 00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:49.919 Uh what, sorry? 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.080 It was what it was a chart success in the United States. 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:56.159 Like they had a top 20 hit with it, which I had no idea. 00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:57.440 I thought it was, yeah. 00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:07.759 Yeah, um, yeah, look, SOS, look, um, Pete Townsend uh uh uh stated um The Who that's correct was the perfect pop song ever written. 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:08.480 And I agree. 00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:13.600 I mean that is song, that is probably my favorite um number one ABBA song because it's got everything. 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:27.759 Um you're a musician, you're a singer, you're a songwriter, if you listen to that that song, you're gonna learn a lot from it because it's just amazing what you know, the way they write the melodies, the way it's it's put together, the production, the vocals, everything. 00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:34.320 I think it's almost like if you I reckon if you had a university course, that is a song you would use as the template for it. 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:41.679 Yes, I mean it should be included just because there are so many interesting things about that, about that song, the recording, everything, the vocals. 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:43.679 I mean, the vocals are unbelievable. 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:46.639 Um uh wow, I have I have so many questions. 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:53.679 So I was speaking of the vocals, um, I oh well let me before I do that, let me ask you about Australia. 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:57.360 Why do you think it was Australia that broke the group? 00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:08.000 Because they famously they they were they were they toured in the beginning and they they couldn't sell a lot of tickets in Europe, even in Sweden. 00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:11.039 Their native they couldn't sell tickets. 00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:14.000 They were kind of a flop, you know. 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:14.639 That's right. 00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:15.919 Look, I'll tell I'll give you an example. 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:21.440 Jan Schaffer, the guitar player I just mentioned who played on ABBA, um, he his debut album. 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:35.759 I mean, ABBBA asked him to sort of um be the guitarist at on tour, but he couldn't do it because he had a already a solo career and he was a very in-in-demand session player, but he agreed to you know um stay on as ABBA's session guitarist, so that's why he played for the whole catalogue. 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:45.360 But he released a solo album in 1973 at the same time as ABBA released a debut album, and uh he outsold ABBA in Sweden. 00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:53.679 He went to number one and stayed there, I think it was about six weeks at number one, and that showed you that you know the the difference in in um ABBA's success at that period. 00:14:53.759 --> 00:15:18.879 I mean in 1975, when this album came out, ABBA were public enemy number one in Sweden because there's a there were a whole there's a whole political movement there um called Prague, now not Prague as in prog, Robert, prog as in P-R-O-D-G, which was all about progressive music in the sense that you had to have a political message and it was about you know it's almost like the punk ethic where anybody could play music, but no, not about commercialism. 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:26.240 And because ABBA were making music that was very commercial and accessible, they were enemy number one. 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:27.840 So it was protests about that, you know. 00:15:27.919 --> 00:15:38.000 It's it's interesting because then a few years later the tide turned, they were acknowledged as being, wow, a great band that exported great Swedish pop music to the world. 00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:41.519 So, but it's interesting to look at that background to it. 00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:46.879 And like you said, the first couple albums they weren't that successful um until this third album came out. 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:56.799 And Australia, the reason I

think it played a big part in it was first of all, um they those four videos they made because they weren't a touring band. 00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:30.879 And if you look for the whole history of ABBA, they toured very I think it was about three, four main tours they did, and the tours they do only like two weeks at a time, you know, um, because Bjorn and Um Agneta had young young family and um and they just didn't want to be away from them, you know, and and touring is a very hard sort of slob, and not only that, their music wasn't really something that live can, you know, if you listen to it in you know the the the complexity to it, you need all these extra musicians, which is why they brought in like back-in singers and extra musicians when they did the live tour. 00:16:31.039 --> 00:17:06.880 So, but those four videos they made to promote uh the songs got were at the right time at the right place, in the sense that in Australia in 1975, we had just gone from black and white television to colour television, and those videos appeared just at the right time with these magnificent images of this band from Sweden with great songs, and it was played on a TV show here called Um Countdown, which is very much like um I think in America you had um uh Min, uh was it um um uh one of those late night shows, I can't remember, midnight something, um Soul Train, that sort of stuff, you know. 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:15.039 Um so that was played on one of the videos were played on the TV show here, and because of that, they got all these phone calls from people saying, Who is this band? 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:16.079 Can you play that again? 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:17.599 And that spurred the whole thing. 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:21.279 You know, in the end, the record company released a single and it went to number one. 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:23.519 You know, all of a sudden there was interest in this band. 00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:29.279 And um I'll just give you a bit of stats to show you how how you know quick this happened and how big it was. 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:34.319 So, with the the first song that went to number one in Australia here was I Do, I Do, I Do, I Do. 00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:36.799 So that went to number one for three weeks. 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:44.720 Straight after that, it was replaced by Mamma Mia for 10 weeks, then straight after that it was replaced by SOS at number one for one week. 00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:48.319 So altogether, there's 14 weeks of ABBA at number one. 00:17:48.400 --> 00:18:02.720 This is towards the end of um 1975, early 1976, and then just a few weeks later they released um Fernando, which went to number one for 14 weeks, and then they released Dancing Queen, which went to number one for eight weeks. 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:08.720 So there's a whole period of 18 months where ABBA were basically at the top of the charts or in the charts. 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:12.480 It's incredible, and that opened up doors like in in the

UK. 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:15.440 They released um Mamma Mia went to number one. 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:18.640 It actually knocked off Bohemian Rhapsody from the top of the charts in it. 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:19.359 So Queens. 00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:20.160 Yeah, you did. 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:20.880 Wow, absolutely. 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:21.680 Isn't it amazing? 00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:25.839 Like you know, Mamma Mia, Mamma Mia, and the next one is like Mamma Mia from ABBA. 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:29.200 So it's incredible the success. 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:31.119 Yeah, wow. 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:48.640 I mean, yeah, it's it's so it's so interesting because the uh then there, you know, uh I want to fast forward a little bit, then I want to ask you some technical questions because there's there's a lot of technical aspects to how ABBA recorded their records and the techniques that they used, which were very interesting. 00:18:49.119 --> 00:19:01.119 Um but there really was a period where you know after the the group disbanded, you know, it's a strange situation because they were they were couples, you know. 00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:06.480 So it's a band that's in relationships with each other, which we famously know doesn't work out too well. 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:07.279 That's right, sure. 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:09.119 There were a lot of groups, Fleetwood Mac. 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:14.720 And uh uh so you know the the relationships ended, but they kept going. 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:15.599 That's right. 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:16.559 It's amazing, isn't it? 00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:24.640 They made several more albums as divorced couples and had some of their biggest uh successes, you know, in the list. 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:25.279 That's right. 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:39.519 I mean, look at you know, the one of their uh latest songs, Winner Takes It All, you know, like uh that was um you know Bjorn and Agnetta had already divorced by then, you know, and so here he's writing a song, which you know, when you look look on it in hindsight, it's almost about them. 00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:40.640 And um and she singing. 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:43.279 Yeah, that's right. 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:48.559 I mean, but Bjorn has denied it, he said it's basically a bit of fiction, but uh you can read a lot into it. 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:51.920 It's like I think it's more than fiction, I think it's pretty personal there. 00:19:52.000 --> 00:20:00.640 Because, and you know, here is Agnita singing this song about you know uh heartbreak and you know, and and what she's obviously experienced by singing these lyrics, you know. 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:05.759 So it's amazing they made it work as couples, you know, ex-couples, because usually it doesn't work that way. 00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:09.119 You can't be around somebody you've just got nah. 00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:14.480 Some of that later ABBA stuff is is my favorite, you know, the the visitors. 00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:17.359 Like oh look, the visitors are so unbrighted. 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:25.519 It's so the sound is just the you know, the synth usage that they did that they had under attack, you know, the day before you came. 00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:28.079 Like those tracks are really because they're so dark. 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:30.079 Because they kind of because they get it. 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:34.000 I think you know, it's about it's right about what you know or what you experience. 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:40.720 And I think they were really in quite a dark uh period, and I think they wrote about it. 00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:53.440 And when you listen to those songs, they're completely opposites of these heavy, happy, bubbly, you know, delicious melodies of of the beginnings of the group. 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:58.559 Um, so okay, so I I have some questions for you about the technical aspects. 00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:03.839 I I talk about this, you know, I'm I'm a songwriter and I produce music and I work with a great producer. 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:13.119 Um now that uh I've worked with a lot of different people, but but uh one of the things that I talk about with w when I work with with producers is VeraSpeed. 00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:14.480 Yes, Verispeed. 00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:19.200 So Varispeed, V-A-R-I-S-P-E-E-D. 00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:31.279 So it it's a really interesting uh aspect of recorded music during the tape era, which is later which which was later uh transferred into now digital music. 00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:33.599 It's you know that you can do it at the press of a button. 00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:47.200 But back in the day, it was uh purposeful, meaning, for instance, the chip mugs, chipmunks is the perfect example because you recorded singers at half speed and then played it back at double speed. 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:50.640 But they um now can you speak to this? 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:51.839 And how much do you know about this? 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:56.400 Michael Treeto, the uh Trito, yes. 00:21:57.039 --> 00:21:59.680 You can say he was almost like the fifth m you know member. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.599 Of the band because he was so part of that yeah, the sound, you know. 00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:05.839 I mean he was always experimental. 00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:07.119 Um look, very speed. 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:09.839 I do talk about that in my book, I do explain it. 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:21.200 Um basically how Michael um did it was basically they would sort of, for example, now first of all, Agnita the technique is not they didn't come up with it though. 00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:25.599 I mean this goes back to Beatles was right. 00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:41.839 So they just sort of took it to the next level and then try and because of the way the the vocals of um Frieda Agnita worked was um so Agnita was um a soprano and Frida was a mezzo soprano, which means there's two sort of you know ranges of vocals, and when you put

them together, it was amazing what they could create. 00:22:41.920 --> 00:23:03.359 But then when you start using very speed, where as you said, back in the tape era, Michael would only sort of sort of slow, like you know, he might change the speed of the tape to say 0.05%, just just you know a little bit, and record, say, Frida's vocals, and then basically when he would you know go back to normal speed, it might you know give it a bit of a different texture to it, maybe you know a bit more brighter. 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:10.160 So then he would do that again to say Agnetha's vocals, and then as you do each layer of vocals, it it creates his wall of sound. 00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:26.559 So compared to say, as you know, like say double tracking where you're actually doing the same thing over again, but just um, you know, like you can sort of uh in the stereo image pan it left and right, he actually was layering, it's almost like layering bricks and developing this wall, which is why it's called the wall of sound. 00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:30.720 And it's incredible that the nuances that you get in the vocal um right. 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:37.119 I mean, I've heard some of the um ice isolated uh uh demos and stuff like that of their vocals. 00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:37.839 It's incredible. 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:42.319 You know, the technique he used, I mean it was very much taking it to the next level, really. 00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:42.799 Yeah. 00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:54.720 So I mean we have to give credit to uh Phil Spector for the Absolutely, because I mean Michael Michael Um Treto, the engineer, read uh Phil Spector's book, which is where he got the ideas from to do this. 00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:58.960 So, but um he just sort of wanted to take to the next level, which is his which is what he did, you know. 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:04.720 As as everything happens in every generation, I suppose, the next person comes along and takes it to the next level. 00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:15.759 Um, and as you said now, nowadays you don't need to sit there in the studio with a tape and slow it down or whatever, you just do it on a computer, which takes away the fun of it because it's all got the ingenious of the actual human side to it. 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:19.279 Yeah, that or the frustration, depending on who you talk to. 00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:21.920 Uh so it's it's all relative. 00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:42.880 Yeah, I mean it's it's such an interesting uh way to create sound, and you get this like rub of that sound and those sonic, you know, which is like one of the greatest things about producing music is is creating like a sonic uh uh uh environment that uh kind of makes you forget everything else, you know. 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:46.000 And they they were just really, really good at that. 00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:48.400 Um did you so you said you use it too? 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:51.119 So how do you use the your very speed technique? 00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:52.799 I don't really use it, you know. 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:57.440 We uh it it's not something that applies to me because it I'm a single vocalist. 00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:08.240 What we do is the doubling, you know, double tracking, which is goes back to like John Lennon was a big fan of that because he he actually didn't apparently he didn't like his voice, he didn't like the sound. 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:09.440 That's right, that's why he did it. 00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:09.920 Absolutely, yeah. 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:11.039 And we all double checking. 00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:18.559 You know, I double check on my yeah, I double check on my vocals um on my uh stuff too, because I just like the the the texture of it. 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:25.519 This helps to sort of cut through the uh instruments, that's what I do it for, and and just gives it a different, I suppose, ambience to your voice. 00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:29.519 Yeah, it just yeah, it gives it a different uh color, you know, if you will. 00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:33.119 But uh I I don't really use it a lot, you know. 00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:38.319 I'm I'm more into you know stacking harmonies um at at times. 00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:42.000 But I mean for me it always uh everything always goes back to the song. 00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:49.519 So I think I think if you don't have a if you don't have a good song, you can you can produce and produce and produce. 00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:52.880 It's not gonna work. 00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:56.799 Um I mean it can work, you know, but I I don't think it'll last. 00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:11.119 So um I I there's another thing I wanted to bring up, which is which is uh that Anyata um Agneta um was a performer and and singer and even songwriter, which most people don't know. 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:12.240 That's right. 00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:22.559 Before she became the A and Abba, one of the A's and ABBA, she was a songwriter and had several hits in very as very young. 00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:24.160 I mean she was like 19, 20 years old. 00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:24.720 That's right, yeah. 00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:36.799 And had several hits in Sweden and I think even Germany and and was a writer, and she is only she only has credit on one single, I think one single ABBA song called Disillusion. 00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:38.640 That's correct, yep. 00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:43.759 And and I wonder sometimes if maybe you can speak to this. 00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:59.119 I I mean these are things I think about is like I wonder if there was some kind of um you know she had she had maybe a a remorse about the fact that she that she wasn't doing any more writing, that she was only singing. 00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:07.359 I wonder if sometimes if if that played into her disillusionment, pun intended, um about the group. 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:19.200 Oh look, I I uh there is an interview she did, uh I can't remember when, but I've actually uh seen interviews she did where she

was asked that same question about you know, why didn't you contribute say more to ABBA? 00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:20.880 Disillusion is a great tune. 00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:21.599 It's a great tune. 00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:22.400 She that she wrote. 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:24.079 It's like one of the Yeah, yeah. 00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:36.400 Um and she said, look, you know, that Benny and Bjorn always encouraged her to sort of write songs for ABBA, but she always felt that there's you know, why try something where um Bjorn and Benny wrote great songs? 00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:39.200 And she said she couldn't do anything better than them. 00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:41.759 She said so she was happy to leave it with them. 00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:46.160 And she said they did encourage her to write, but she just thought, no, why why? 00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:48.640 We've got a formula here, it works, let's stick with that. 00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:56.000 So um, but yeah, she is very miss unrepresented in that fact that yeah, she was she was a successful solo singer. 00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:05.200 I mean, they all were, they were all very successful, they were almost like the uh a super group in some ways because you know Benny was in a band called Hepstars, who were bigger than the Beatles in Sweden. 00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:09.440 He, you know, he wrote quite a few number ones as a 19-year-old, you know, in that band. 00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:16.880 Um Bjorn was in the in a folk sort of rock band called uh Hutton Annie Singers, who were very successful in Sweden. 00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:20.880 Frida was uh you know a great, she had a career herself too as a singer. 00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:23.200 Um and so they all came together. 00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:28.240 I suppose that as they say, the planets aligned and uh they all came together at the right time. 00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:29.039 Yeah. 00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:31.200 It's a it's a wild story. 00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:44.319 Um now when you talk to the the musicians, you interviewed several of the music musicians that played on many uh many of the the ABBA albums, of which there are only is it nine? 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:46.160 Eight or nine? 00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:47.839 Yeah, top in your head now. 00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:49.680 Um with four I think there is, yeah. 00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:50.720 I gotta double check that. 00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:51.119 But yeah, yeah. 00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:52.559 Something like that. 00:28:52.799 --> 00:29:01.599 Um but anyway, the uh the the musicians that are on on these on these records, they're all great players, you know. 00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:06.960 Um uh top notch studio players, top-notch guys, like Ola Brunkert. 00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:08.000 That's right, yeah. 00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:08.400 That's right. 00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:09.839 Yeah, the drummer, that's correct. 00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:11.920 Yeah, uh Jan Scheffer, Janne. 00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:19.440 Um, and I mean there are

several others, and a few of them are are you you interviewed for for the book, for your book. 00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:20.160 That's correct. 00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:34.960 Um what did you what did you find that surprised you the most about the record, the musicianship, the the collaboration in the studio that surprised you the most about about the the group, about Albert? 00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:55.200 Um that when they were called in, first of all, the way the the what they recorded was you know particularly this album was it was a combination between Metronome Studios, which is still around in Sweden, um, but it's under a different name, it's called Atlanta Studio, and a Glen Studio, which is sort of like a was like a studio in in the basement of a of a residential home. 00:29:55.440 --> 00:30:00.160 But um the Metronome Studios, um, it was used by all the record companies. 00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:01.279 So Benny and Bjorn. 00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:02.559 This is in Stockholm. 00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:03.119 In Stockholm? 00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:05.039 Stockholm, that's great, yep, Stockholm. 00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:11.920 So they had to sort of record this album in bits and pieces when they had time to studio time, they couldn't just go in every day. 00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:13.920 So you know, it was over a period. 00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:25.920 I think um they started recording this uh August 1974, and they finished this in 1975, but in that whole period, it's probably like almost like two weeks if you put all together that recorded the album. 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:37.519 But um, they had to sort of have one day here and then they couldn't use a studio, so they had to work, and and Benny and Bjorn were also house producers of polar music artists, so they would produce other artists on the other day. 00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:45.039 So one of the reasons why they later got their own studio, Polar Studios, is because they got tired of having to wait around other people's schedule. 00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:49.279 That way they could concentrate on ABBA's music full stop without having interruption. 00:30:49.359 --> 00:31:04.400 Um but going back to what you asked me about the musicians, so a lot of those musicians would get called in and they didn't know what they were playing on because the songs never had any titles, they never had any sort of lyrics, they had some dummy lyrics, but they would just basically put together a backing track. 00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:19.039 Now, mind you, they'll just sit there from they would look very regimented, like you know, um they might start at 10am, finish at 1, 1 pm, have a one-hour break, start again at 2 and finish at 5, and then they'll go home and then Benny and Bjorn will stay back and work on the music. 00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:37.599 But basically they'll have a backing track when that was completely finished, and when Bjorn and and Benny were completely 100% happy with it, then they Bjorn will take home the track, the backing track, sit there and start writing lyrics, you know, to this backing track, which is incredible, you know, um, and come up with a lyric. 00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:42.400 You know, Stig Anderson will help with the translation of a lot of their stuff, come up with titles. 00:31:42.480 --> 00:32:00.160 Um but Bjorn, after this album, he got really, you know, he wanted to really improve his English, so he would basically do a lot of reading, learn dictionary stuff, which is why you notice in the next album onwards, Stig Anderson's um songwriting credit got less because Bjorn was more comfortable in writing English lyrics. 00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:09.279 But um, yeah, and he just come up with melodies and and and and uh lyrics and then come into studio, get the girls to come in, you know, work with them and lay down those songs. 00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:10.240 And just incredible. 00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:17.119 I mean, usually when you do a demo, you have like a um you know, a melody idea or some lyrics and then you work on it. 00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:23.680 But they did it really incredible that just a piece of music and then sit there and go, hmm, okay, what can we write about? 00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:32.000 Yeah, I mean you dive really deep uh deep into this uh in the book, and uh it's an it's it's a really interesting read. 00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:35.359 Uh because you are you also there's a lot of nice references, you know. 00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:39.440 Uh I I can tell that you've you've listened to a lot of other music as well. 00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:53.839 Can you can you talk a little bit about how it influenced your own your own writing and and how it influenced any kind of listening that came in the future for after after you had this you know time listening to ABBA? 00:32:54.480 --> 00:33:00.960 Well it it made me um I mean my first fell in love with music at the age of four listening to the Pet Sounds album by Beach Boys. 00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:03.680 Now, Beach Boys was not a big favourite of Benjamin Bjorn. 00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:13.759 So when ABBA came along, it just informed you know in third and it helped me to uh really appreciate pop music, you know, in in all its glory, really. 00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:16.799 So I've always been a person that is all about the song. 00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:22.160 I've never, you know, even though I'm a guitar player, I'm never a person who wants to do like 10-minute guitar solos. 00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:23.440 I get totally bored of that. 00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:41.759 I I like the short, sweet melodic solos, and um so I'm always about the song, about and the thing about ABBA, how it influenced me was I also write a lot of stuff where Abba would write, for example, um a minor key, for example, minor um verse, and then in the chorus go to a major key, for example. 00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:48.000 So they have this blending of melancholy with with joyfulness, I suppose, and able to sort of really make it

work. 00:33:48.079 --> 00:33:54.960 So a lot of my songs on you know, I've got minor chords in the verse, and then I get to the chorus and I have major chords. 00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:56.960 So there's one influence in that sense. 00:33:57.039 --> 00:34:15.599 Um the way I approach a song, like you know, with uh with um uh like the wall of sound, um, you know, I like I like to double track my my guitars a lot, so there's a lot of elements that I I take, and I'm always listening, you know, and picking up new ideas and and and and and the ambience of a song, you know, it's really important to get that feeling across. 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:19.599 And Abba Webber to do that just with and and another thing is the simplicity to it. 00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:27.119 I mean you take away all the complexity of their arrangements and and instruments, and at the core of it, you've got a very simple melody. 00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:33.440 And in the book, I I talk about this too, where um, for example, SOS is basically going down the scale. 00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:35.519 If you did that say in the key of C, right? 00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:40.559 Which it's in the key of D minor, but say on a waike, you just go down each key one at a time. 00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:51.119 Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun, it's just going, it's so simple, it's like a nursery rhyme, and yet it's the way they built that into a complexity where you go, wow, it's incredible. 00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:59.199 And if you took away one little element away from the song, you would notice it, even though you stand back and you go, Well, where are all these bits and pieces? 00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:10.719 But it's so, I mean, that was so, you know, uh switched on into what they wanted the music, and and it's incredible how they knew where to put certain parts and what would work and what wouldn't work. 00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:11.199 Yeah. 00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:21.119 Some of the parts, you know, there's a going back to listening to these these uh these songs, you know, like in Mamma Mia, like the some of the guitar parts, you just go, Oh, right. 00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:22.639 I forgot about this. 00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:24.000 It's so clever. 00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:31.119 You know, and you don't really think about because you're so focused, you said something very interesting about the the nursery rhymes, you mentioned that. 00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:40.960 And that is because these melodies are simplistic, um uh but at the same time uh highly engaging, which makes them complex. 00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:43.280 Yeah, that's you know, in my opinion. 00:35:43.679 --> 00:36:15.920 And and uh it it's really interesting because you kind of focus in on the tune and the melody and the sing-along, but when you really take a step back and start listening to all the parts, you realize, whoa, you know, they really weaved, they really weaved this stuff together very cleverly and took a lot of time to to come up with all

of these parts, which really lift lift the whole thing and and really sets it apart from from from everything else. 00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:18.400 Now, how many books have you written as an author? 00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:21.599 Like what what's your uh um I've written three books. 00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:22.639 This is my third book. 00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:44.000 Um, my first book was uh called Backstage Past, The Grit and the Glamour, which is basically a collection of a lot of diary entries of my life as a Tury musician, interviewing artists, you know, backstage like Metallica, and you know, being on the road with people like Steve Harley, I played guitar for, and you know, interviewing Queen, what they were like, you know, sort of um more Brian May backstage. 00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:47.679 So it's my experience as a music journalist and as a Tory musician. 00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:53.360 My second book was called Loudin Words, um, which is a story of 10 artists that influenced my life. 00:36:53.519 --> 00:37:05.119 ABBA's in obviously in one of them, and I talk about ABBA and I delve into Jan Schaffer's life pretty intense in that one there, you know, and there's um Brian Adams um in there, and Brian Adams wrote the foreword for it. 00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:33.920 So um there's Jerry Rafferty and um but the Beach Boy, so there's you know that sort of stuff, and then this book here is is my third book, and I'm really proud of them because this is you know, I always wanted to do, I've always been a fan of um uh reading about the making of albums, you know, and and and insights in how you know recording techniques and and so I I chose this one because I thought this meant so much to me, you know, and still does 50 years later, and I've still got the original album here, you know, um, with the price. 00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:45.360 I remember buying it for$6.99 in Australia, which was like you think about it now, you go, wow, that was you know, nowadays is like it's nothing, but back then there's a lot of you know, sort of records were affordable. 00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:53.360 Um, but yeah, so this is I thought I want to write about an album that really influenced me, was really important, and also important to pop culture in general. 00:37:53.440 --> 00:38:02.159 And ABBA are really um one of the most um you know biggest bands of all time, you know, next to the Beatles, um, the Stones, that sort of stuff. 00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:03.360 So they sold a lot of rec. 00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:10.239 I mean, it's been estimated sold around about 350 million uh albums worldwide, which is an incredible feat, really. 00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:14.079 Yeah, that's uh almost uh that's basically impossible now. 00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:18.159 You can that's not that's not doable. 00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:21.519 Uh so um yeah, wow. 00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:27.280 I uh it's uh it's it's a really cool it's a really cool uh story to follow. 00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:37.039 So one of the

things that I always found very interesting about ABBA is that it's very no drama, you know, like they kept all their they kept their lives very private. 00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:41.280 And so they put everything into song, which I'm a big fan of, you know. 00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:52.400 I like I like my privacy, I like time to myself so that I can write and can work and can create, and I don't want to spend a lot of time, you know, talking about meaningless things. 00:38:52.480 --> 00:39:00.960 And I I don't you know, I don't think that I think that they're probably I mean this is a time before social media, you know, so that when they when they came up. 00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:08.239 And I I wonder sometimes, you know, what what it was like to be them. 00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:15.440 And what what kind of you know, you were mentioning how their recording schedules were like day jobs. 00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:21.920 You know, they weren't like hanging out in the studio getting fucked up all night long, you know or whatever, you know. 00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:23.360 I mean, and then nothing wrong with that. 00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:25.519 Everyone to each their own, you know, whatever. 00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:28.079 Um there's always time for a good party, I'm sure. 00:39:28.239 --> 00:39:31.360 But I mean this was not who they were as people, I think. 00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:32.000 That's right. 00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:42.639 And and uh I I think they're they really were consumed by their creative minds, you know, and um which which is very interesting. 00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:46.719 And there's also not a ton of footage of them making these albums. 00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:48.239 There's not a lot of film footage, is there? 00:39:48.400 --> 00:39:49.760 Yeah, no, that's very that's right. 00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:55.119 Yeah, um, you know, there's a lot of stuff that was been that's been released on like DVD, but there's not much, that's correct, you know. 00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:59.360 Um it was very I mean, you're right, they always kept their private lives private, you know. 00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:03.199 And the only way you could figure out people would always listen to the sons go, this is what it means, you know. 00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:16.559 I mean, you know, you could write almost like a a thesis on um, you know, on sort of private life, but um unlike other rock bands where you know you know a lot about them, you know, um, you know, their private lives gets it gets it in the mass media. 00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:31.920 But you know, I I grew up in a in a generation where the only information you got were like through magazines like Kareem magazine, Rolling Stone, that sort of stuff, where um, you know, if you wanted to find them from private, you had to sort of, you know, it wasn't you know uh unless you were like in a in a rock band or something like that. 00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:34.880 But in bands like ABBA, it was very hard because they kept it private. 00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:36.400 I mean Brian Adams is another example. 00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:53.119 You know, Brian Adams really, there's not much about his private life, you know, he's always been very professional in keeping his uh his music you know in the public eye, which is you know, I I'm all for that because really there's two sides to to, as you know, you've been a musician, there's your professional life and there's your private life. 00:40:53.199 --> 00:40:57.360 And I and when you're doing music and that sort of stuff, it's your professional life, it's what you want in the world to see. 00:40:57.679 --> 00:40:58.960 Your private life is for your own. 00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:00.000 You've got to have privacy. 00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:13.920 I mean, you know, that you can't have, you know, where everybody knows every single thing about you because um, yeah, and I I I believe mystery is a is an important factor in music too, because you know, having mystery, you go, oh, what's this artist about, you know? 00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:18.159 Um, but once you know something all about the artist, you go, oh yeah, you know, what is this? 00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:21.599 So I think mystery is an important part, and I think that's another thing too about ABBA. 00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:22.719 There's a mystery about him. 00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:23.599 You know, who are these people? 00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:25.280 You know, like what can we find about them? 00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:27.920 So mystery plays a big part, yeah. 00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:41.280 I mean, we're living in a in a very different time where uh artists are basically told to expose their private lives and what they're doing, what they're having for breakfast. 00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:44.800 You know, uh every day, all day. 00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:46.639 And uh, I mean, I don't care. 00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:50.239 And uh I'm not gonna sit there and tell you how I make my coffee, black. 00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:57.119 But you know, we're l like now with social media, it's it it's the opposite, or it has become the opposite. 00:41:57.199 --> 00:41:59.280 I think people are getting tired of that too now, you know. 00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:00.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:05.039 Because it you know the the uh how much how important is it, you know. 00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:08.079 But I think it just made music less important now. 00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:09.039 That's right, yeah. 00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:16.320 And look, a lot of times, look, a lot of stuff is is is staged, you know, in order to make it, you know, in order to get gain followers or whatever. 00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:27.280 And you know, like I've I've talked spoken to a lot of a lot of bands over the years, you know, and um, you know, at the end of time, a lot of the stories and and and myths are basically what's what they are myths, they're not totally true. 00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:31.280 Not saying that a lot of it didn't happen, but

some of it's really exaggerated, you know. 00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:37.599 Like, for example, I mean, I I I never forget reading um Nikki Sick's book, you know, from Motley Crue, right? 00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:46.719 Now, you know, in his book he details his um, you know, when he overdosed, you know, quite a couple of times and he died apparently and came back to life, you know, being resuscitated. 00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:51.039 And um, so back then, you know, read some of the interviews, he couldn't remember what happened. 00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:56.159 And yet, 30 years later, you know, in his book, he details it to the minute detail. 00:42:56.320 --> 00:43:05.679 Now, how does that you you you you question it and you go, well, why is it that you can remember something 30 years ago that first of all you were so out of it, you know, um, and you can remember at the time. 00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:11.440 So it's a lot of myth making to make it say, oh, you know, like look at this, but um you've got to take with a grain of salt. 00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:14.800 But yeah, it's it's I I think a lot of it is staged. 00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:22.000 Um, which is your favourite ABBA album other than this one, other than the 1975? 00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:27.039 Uh Arrival, because I think Arrival um is where they there's great stuff in there. 00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:32.719 I mean, uh the title track, I mean, I have to also mention in in regards to I also do a lot of instrumental music too. 00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:44.320 And on on ABBA, um, this album that I wrote the book about, there's an instrument called Intermezzo Number One, which is where Benny shows off all his classical, you know, prog rock sort of stuff, which is absolutely fantastic. 00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:46.960 So, you know, I fell in love with instrumental music because of that too. 00:43:47.039 --> 00:43:54.320 And then Arrival's got another one too, even though that's got some sort of harmonised wordless stuff from the the the ladies themselves. 00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:55.760 But it's a great track. 00:43:55.840 --> 00:43:59.039 Um the album's look, it's got choppers full of hits, you know. 00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:02.639 Um Dancing Queen, of course, you know, Knowing Me, Knowing You. 00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:04.800 I mean, great, great songs. 00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:06.079 It really took it to the mix of it. 00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:08.320 Is that Jan on guitar? 00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:09.280 Jan Schaffer? 00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:11.920 Um that is Lasse Well and Done. 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:13.119 That one on Knowing Me, Knowing You. 00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:15.280 Yan actually did Yeah, Lasse, yeah. 00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:26.239 Young did go in and do um the first, I think, recording of it, and then they came in and Lasse um they they changed it around a bit and he um overdubbed some new guitar parts. 00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:27.039 Yeah. 00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:30.400 Uh it that's it's such a sick recording too. 00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:32.320 The guitars on there sounds so delicious. 00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:33.679 Oh, it is great. 00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:35.679 You want to know what my favorite ABBA album is? 00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:37.840 Other than the visit, other than the visitors. 00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:39.119 I love the visitors. 00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:39.760 Yeah. 00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:43.280 Uh it's uh the album, ABBA the album. 00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:44.400 Oh, that one, yeah. 00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:45.440 I just had that. 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:51.679 Eagle is is to me just like it's so it's so cool. 00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:52.880 It's such a cool track. 00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:53.360 It is. 00:44:53.519 --> 00:44:54.559 Eagle is a great song. 00:44:54.880 --> 00:45:01.119 Yeah, it's just it has this wild vibe to it, you know, like it takes me on like on this like journey. 00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:07.599 Um and uh so okay, I man, I I could ask you like a million more than we don't know. 00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:08.719 Let me ask you a question then. 00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:10.320 Go ahead and ask you a question, please. 00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:10.880 Okay. 00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:14.719 So so um you're you're doing some you're going to London, is that right? 00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:16.960 You're doing some shows in London in April? 00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:26.800 Yeah, I have uh I have a performance in London on April 17th at One Marybone where I'm performing at an event for Homeopathy UK. 00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:27.679 Oh, really? 00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:29.440 Because I'm gonna be in London then at the same time. 00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:32.159 Oh, we must we must link up. 00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:32.960 Yeah, yeah. 00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:35.360 So I'll find I'll I'll get some details off you later. 00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:36.480 Um that'd be really great. 00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:36.800 Interesting. 00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:38.719 Because I'm doing some book talks in London, yeah. 00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:40.880 And you know, our buddy Phil Manzanera. 00:45:41.440 --> 00:45:43.679 Yes, Phil, he's a good, very good friend of mine. 00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:50.159 Yes, from uh um Roxy Roxy Roxy Roxy Roxy Music Music. 00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:54.400 So yeah, I was in I was in London last year. 00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:58.159 I had a recording session at Abbey Road, which was pretty awesome. 00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:09.920 And um I had had uh Phil on the podcast on Making Sound, and I forgot that he lived there and that he has a studio, and you know, it was really hectic. 00:46:10.159 --> 00:46:14.159 The schedule was really hectic, you know, so like I had no hardly any free time. 00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:18.480 And so he he was like, Yeah, we gotta get together, you know, we should meet up. 00:46:18.559 --> 00:46:19.920 You you should have told me you're here. 00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:21.199 I'm like, sorry. 00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:23.760 I was you know, it was crazy busy. 00:46:23.920

--> 00:46:27.280 And I mean, I love Roxy music, you know, I'm a huge Brian Ferry fan. 00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:31.679 So um, and so he we we talked, we're gonna we're gonna meet up. 00:46:31.760 --> 00:46:35.679 So if you're gonna be there in April, April 17th, this is the performance. 00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:40.159 Um there's an event on the 16th, and I'm doing some press because I have a single coming out on that same. 00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:41.199 Oh, I can do that. 00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:43.039 Okay, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be doing some press. 00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:44.559 I've got some book talks on ABBA. 00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:47.280 I'm gonna be doing a book talk, two book talks in London while I'm there. 00:46:47.599 --> 00:46:48.400 Do you know what the dates are? 00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:49.679 Sorry? 00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:51.199 Do you know what the dates are? 00:46:51.519 --> 00:46:58.400 Uh yes, I'll be in uh Westminster Library on April the uh 15th for book talk. 00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:00.480 Yeah, I am gonna be there. 00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:10.079 Um it's already um been uh upgraded to a larger um capacity because the demand for it is I've already been told a lot of people are gonna be there hitting these talking back in the cover. 00:47:10.639 --> 00:47:11.679 Is that something I don't come to? 00:47:11.760 --> 00:47:12.079 Is that good? 00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:13.679 Absolutely, it's three entry, yeah. 00:47:13.840 --> 00:47:22.000 And what I normally do is with my book talks, I talk about ABBA the book, I talk about ABBA's music, and I get people to sort of ask me questions, and then I do a performance. 00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:33.679 I perform some of my songs that'll relate to why I chose and how I write them in regards to ABBA, and um and I probably do an ABBA song too in my own style, SOS, but performed in my own style. 00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:35.920 Oh, so when you're near me, darling. 00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:37.119 Yes, that's right. 00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:37.599 Yes, yes. 00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:41.920 Yes, but yeah, do come along, yeah, save our souls. 00:47:42.079 --> 00:47:42.719 Uh sure. 00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:44.880 I I think I'm arriving on the 15th. 00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:50.800 I think my flight's on the 15th, so uh of April in London, London town. 00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:52.159 Uh okay, good. 00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:53.440 We're definitely gonna do that. 00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:54.719 We'll we'll talk. 00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:57.199 We'll talk once we get off the air and make a plan. 00:47:57.440 --> 00:48:01.679 Um, but yeah, I I have uh I have that and then it's a bunch of others. 00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:05.360 There's so much going on because I have a record coming out in in at the end of May. 00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:11.280 So uh there's uh it's gonna be uh it's gonna be an interesting, it's gonna be a very interesting year. 00:48:11.440 --> 00:48:14.079 So if you have you toured Australia, by the way? 00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:15.280 No, I haven't. 00:48:15.360 --> 00:48:16.880 I mean I tour in South Africa. 00:48:16.960 --> 00:48:19.119 I'm touring in South Africa later this year. 00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:19.760 Okay. 00:48:20.079 --> 00:48:24.719 And uh they uh the radio in South Africa has been really good to me. 00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:29.920 You know, they they play me all the time, which is I'm very grateful for. 00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:33.360 So um I would love to go down under and play. 00:48:33.519 --> 00:48:37.519 Um it's just another another long flight. 00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:38.880 Yeah, yeah, it is, yeah. 00:48:43.360 --> 00:48:46.320 Yeah, I mean it's 15 to get to Johannesburg from New York. 00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:52.079 Yeah, and then uh but which is not a fun flight because there's no layover. 00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:55.840 So you're you're stuck on that, you're stuck on that plane. 00:48:56.000 --> 00:48:57.679 You you just have to deal. 00:48:58.480 --> 00:48:58.960 That's right. 00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:00.480 And economy too. 00:49:01.119 --> 00:49:03.519 Well, yeah, I mean unless you get upgraded, yeah. 00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:04.559 Yeah, yeah, that's right. 00:49:05.199 --> 00:49:06.719 Uh so uh wow. 00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:14.000 So uh you are now your your history is uh you were you born in Australia or were you born in Australia? 00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:25.920 Yes, I'm born in Australia, but my um my parents are both born um in Italy and they came out when they were um after they got married, they came out to Australia, and I was born about a year after they arrived in Australia. 00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:28.000 So I'm 100% Italian, you can say. 00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:29.039 I'm just born in Australia. 00:49:29.199 --> 00:49:29.360 Yeah. 00:49:29.519 --> 00:49:34.639 So you're a first generation Australian uh from yeah, so that's so cool. 00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:43.360 Wow, I mean you you really have uh so it's so interesting that you that you how widely faceted your uh your career is. 00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:45.599 It's a you're a renaissance man, you know. 00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:59.119 I I can I can relate, you know, and I I think the the guys it's it's so cool that you have a uh a connection to to uh bjorn, you know, that you can say, hey, you know, I'm I'm writing this book. 00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:02.320 And that must that must feel really that must feel really nice. 00:50:02.639 --> 00:50:08.559 Well, yes, it's first PI, and she passed on you know my couple of questions, and he was kind enough to answer them back to me. 00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:17.679 So um, but yeah, I mean Jarn is really the um the my my main connection because um you know we've recorded together, we've co-written a piece of music together. 00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:38.320 Um and it's it's interesting how it all started because you know I I first toured um uh Sweden in 2017 and and I was doing this um in-store performance concert performance and and the guy there said to me, Oh Jan

Schaffer from ABBA wants to come and see your your in-store performance later today. 00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:42.079 And I go, Jan Schaffer, and he goes, Yeah, and I said, How does he know about my music? 00:50:42.159 --> 00:50:45.119 He said, Well he does, and he really likes your guitar playing, so he wants to check you out. 00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:46.159 And I go, Really? 00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:47.679 And you know, I'm all the way from Australia. 00:50:47.840 --> 00:50:58.400 I go, how the good of you anyway, and he later left the message that because Jan's so busy, he's always doing shows, he's you know, he goes all around the country performing ABBA stuff, you know. 00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:06.079 Um, and so anyway, he couldn't make it that night, he had a had a gig, so he left the message and says, Look, make contact with me and let's let's you know hook up or something like that. 00:51:06.159 --> 00:51:21.920 So eventually we uh we got to talking, you know, hooked up and um yeah, he played a uh guest style on one of my tracks, and later on um I sent him a demo of uh uh a piece of music I had, and he you know put his input into it and we decided to uh record it and release it. 00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:25.039 So you know the track sees us playing together in our styles. 00:51:25.119 --> 00:51:25.760 It's it's great. 00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:28.159 So he's a great guy, absolutely wonderful guy. 00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:31.280 I just I just love that we're talking about other yarns. 00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:33.119 Yeah, that's a lot of yarns. 00:51:33.199 --> 00:51:33.440 That's right. 00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:34.960 It makes me very happy. 00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:38.079 Uh uh wow, so okay, cool man. 00:51:38.239 --> 00:51:41.199 Well, listen, it it's so great to talk to you and meet you. 00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:43.360 Thank you, you too, and thank you so much for the interest. 00:51:43.519 --> 00:51:52.960 I really appreciate it and look, thank you so much for I'm so glad I checked out the uh anthem because um my connection, the other thing I'll just add real quickly, my connection to ABBA is I also was in chess. 00:51:53.039 --> 00:51:56.079 I played a local production of chess, I was a lead guitarist. 00:51:56.159 --> 00:52:05.920 We did 14 sold-out shows, and I loved it every minute, especially the guitar style in Pity the Child, where it was like a I think it went for like a 60-second guitar style. 00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:10.079 We had nearly everything that was in the 80s, you know, all the tapping, and and I loved that every night. 00:52:10.159 --> 00:52:13.119 The spotlight just go, yeah, and absolutely fantastic. 00:52:13.199 --> 00:52:24.559 And that changed my life in a lot of regards where I learned to to see a different side of the music industry where the theatre was really, really something that I was really loved a lot about when I as an as part of an orchestra. 00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:28.800 So yeah, my my connection with ABBA runs through many

years, really. 00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:37.920 And uh yeah, I don't I when you reminded me that I recorded myself singing Anthem on Instagram, I was like, right. 00:52:39.440 --> 00:52:40.559 I've forgotten about it. 00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:42.639 It's such a that's a great tune, and I love singing that. 00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:43.280 Oh, it is. 00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:44.559 It's it's a great one. 00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:45.599 Okay, cool. 00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:47.920 So uh listen, we have to we have to wrap it up. 00:52:48.000 --> 00:53:01.119 I mean I could talk to you all night, but I want to I I gotta wrap it up, and because it's it's evening here and you still have a full day ahead of you, and uh and uh uh I am I'm waving to you all the way to the other side of the globe. 00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:09.920 The making of ABBA, Joe Matera, the story behind the band's 1975 breakthrough album. 00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:12.320 Uh it's uh it's a great book. 00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:13.599 Check it out, everybody. 00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:15.679 And uh Joe, thank you for being on the show. 00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:18.480 How can people find you on the interwebs? 00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:19.679 And they can find me. 00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:20.800 I'm very accessible. 00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:27.440 Um, I mean, my I come up first on Google, but they can find me on at my website, joymatura.com or social media, Facebook. 00:53:27.519 --> 00:53:35.760 I'm I'm very much active on Facebook daily up with updates, so just Facebook, um, put in my name, I'll come up, send me friend requests. 00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:42.239 Um, I'm always happy to answer questions for fans, or um, I very much interact with with anybody. 00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:43.360 So yeah, it's very good. 00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:44.559 They can find me pretty easy. 00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:45.360 Fantastic. 00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:47.199 And where can people get the book? 00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:51.360 The book can be uh easily get on Amazon, um, the local Amazon. 00:53:51.440 --> 00:54:00.719 So if it's the US it'd be.com, if it's Australia, it'd be.au, um, or bookstores, like you know, in in the in the States it's released through um Simon and Schuster. 00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:06.079 So um, but yeah, um they can just if they can't get in the bookstore, just go online, you'll get it pretty quickly. 00:54:06.480 --> 00:54:07.280 Fantastique. 00:54:07.519 --> 00:54:08.480 All right, folks. 00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:11.199 Uh a couple of announcements from myself as well. 00:54:11.440 --> 00:54:18.719 March 15th, I'll be in Florida for our house concert, and then I will be in Fort Myers, that is, that just got announced. 00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:23.679 And April 17th, I'll be in London, and hopefully also connect with you, Joe. 00:54:23.920 --> 00:54:30.719 And at one Marley Bone, and then we'll be at the Port Washington Public Library May 10th over here in New York. 00:54:31.280 --> 00:54:41.280 And then there's several other concerts coming up, Ohio, uh New York City at the end of May, uh, Pennsylvania in June, and a couple other ones coming up as well. 00:54:41.440 --> 00:54:49.679 So uh everybody keep in touch and check out Joe's book, The Making of ABBA, Story Behind the Band's 1975 Breakthrough Album. 00:54:50.079 --> 00:54:51.599 And who do we have coming up? 00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:54.239 I think I have Rachel Flowers on the show. 00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:55.440 I think that's next week. 00:54:55.840 --> 00:55:03.119 So uh the uh wonderful young um talented singer who is uh who I've worked with on one of my recordings. 00:55:03.199 --> 00:55:05.440 So stay tuned for a lot of other stuff. 00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:08.159 I think we have Howard Jones coming up on the show as well. 00:55:08.559 --> 00:55:09.599 Oh, that was great. 00:55:09.679 --> 00:55:10.400 I love his music. 00:55:10.639 --> 00:55:12.159 That that's gonna be interesting. 00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:14.800 So uh Joe, thank you so much, man. 00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:16.320 Oh, thank you for having me on. 00:55:16.480 --> 00:55:21.519 It's been such a pleasure, and um, thank you for interesting and yeah, keep up the great work, and hopefully we can hook up in London. 00:55:21.679 --> 00:55:22.559 I'll see you in London. 00:55:22.639 --> 00:55:23.280 All right, everybody. 00:55:23.519 --> 00:55:24.880 Okay, okay, bye-bye. 00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:26.000 See you next time. 00:55:26.239 --> 00:55:26.800 Bye.