Full Transcript for Superman's Most Iconic Stories MEGA EPISODE (Superman Blue, Death of Superman, Superman's Ideal Version of Krypton)

really great story. So you mean an event 71 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:48.199 in the stunt. Yeah, it was absolutely a hundred I 72 00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:50.039 was like, she was not an electric character, no, but 73 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:52.159 it was like one hundred percent like a pandering stunt. 74 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:54.919 And if if something starts life as a pandering stunt 75 00:03:54.919 --> 00:03:57.240 but is well executed as you say, and everyone went 76 00:03:57.479 --> 00:03:59.800 even the JLA went really hard for this. 77 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:03.360 Then it's cool. Everyone takes it seriously, then it's serious. 78 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:06.680 All right, Now it's time to jump into the ten 79 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:08.759 cent origin? What is that? Ashley? 80 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:10.599 That is the first part of the podcast where Jason 81 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:12.319 is going to explain to you all the who's its 82 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:13.960 and what's its galore in case you go to a 83 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:16.920 cool Metropolis themed cocktail party and somebody doesn't understand your 84 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:18.040 specific nineties reference. 85 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:20.120 So this is going to be a very short ten 86 00:04:20.199 --> 00:04:22.240 cent origin, of course, because we've already done lots of 87 00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:24.399 ten cent origins on Superman, but this is specifically for 88 00:04:24.439 --> 00:04:27.800 Superman Blue. Superman Blue was a DC comic storyline from 89 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:31.360 mid nineteen ninety seven to mid nineteen ninety eight. Roughly 90 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:34.560 some of the writers involved included Carl Kessel, Dan Jurgens, 91 00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:38.480 Mike Carlin, Louise Simons, and John Bugdanoff and more. Will 92 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:41.240 go so over some of his more powers later in 93 00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:43.160 this lesson, so I'm not going to give them there, 94 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:46.759 but basically the ten cent origin is that it's Superman. 95 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:50.279 He's now blue. He could shoot lightning at you, and 96 00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:52.439 the s shield looks like a lightning bolt, and the 97 00:04:52.439 --> 00:04:56.360 head piece is so dumb but so good. So ninety Also. 98 00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:58.879 That Jimbrego has joined us in the recording studio for 99 00:04:58.920 --> 00:05:01.279 the first time since we started the session today. 100 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:03.639 Right now, let's get to the met cute. 101 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:05.199 That is the second part of the podcast where we 102 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:07.480 stole a term from romantic comedy writing, and we're going 103 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:08.199 to tell you where. 104 00:05:08.079 --> 00:05:10.680 We first meeted this character and how cute did what? Ashley, 105 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:14.120 Where did you first meet Superman Blue or Electric Superman? 106

00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:21.000 I don't know because for most of my consciousness. I've 107 00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:25.160 seen the images of Superman blue and Superman read because 108 00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:29.160 I was so young when it happened. The first story 109 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:33.079 that I ever read was when I was going through 110 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:35.920 the Howard Porter JLA's collections that. 111 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:37.759 You had, and you were like, why did he turn blue? 112 00:05:37.879 --> 00:05:40.839 And he literally just shows up one issue, Anda's blue, 113 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:43.319 and Kyle and Wally kind of like make some Snyder 114 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:45.720 remarks about it, and then Batman's like, you're you're just 115 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:47.399 gonna You're just gonna go with this and it's no 116 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:51.040 big deal. And then they do, and Superman is really 117 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:52.720 cool and it really doesn't matter that he's blue. 118 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:57.839 Now, yeah, yeah, fair enough? All right? My meet cute 119 00:05:58.040 --> 00:06:01.160 is actually Superman one twenty three. It's the very famous 120 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:05.199 cover of It's the first cover where he is Superman, 121 00:06:06.040 --> 00:06:10.759 drawn by Dan Inger, but it is oh yes, I 122 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:13.079 recoid I had this issue. It's the first issue that 123 00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:16.000 he gets his new electric blue costume, not as Bleaxer 124 00:06:16.120 --> 00:06:18.279 Blue Powers and stuff like that. All right, So we're 125 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:21.040 gonna get into the big old history one on one, 126 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:24.360 but first we have a Patreon everybody. It's over at 127 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:28.240 patreon dot com. Slash Job and jawii in you might 128 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:30.480 be saying to yourself, oh my god, I support so 129 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:33.439 many Patreons. Why do I need to support more Patreon? 130 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:35.240 Ours is the best? Well, ours is the best one 131 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:37.240 hundred percent one is because it gives you access to 132 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:40.839 the exclusive Patreon or excuse the exclusive discard. There does 133 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:44.439 exclusive Patreon stuff. But we also have extra podcasts over there, 134 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:46.480 like geeksher Less, an extra which we do every single week, 135 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:49.279 which we talk more and more about. We recently did 136 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:52.279 pop Culture Talk with DJ Wolverds that's forty minutes over 137 00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:55.160 there that you can only hear the Patreon. Every month, 138 00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:58.560 we do Jason and Jeremy John about Justice League, which 139 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:00.800 is our Just League review podcast where almost through season 140 00:07:00.800 --> 00:07:02.439 two over there, if you like this episode, you're really 141 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:04.040 going to like that. That one two episodes a month, 142 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:06.959 and then we just started a new podcast called Film Footsteps, 143 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:11.160 where Ashley and I are talking through our movies that 144 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:14.480 inspired our creative lives and our creative careers. And this 145 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:17.120 month's episode is about a pendent, So you go check 146 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:18.720 that out and we're going to be popping into some 147 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:20.759 Western So if you want to get all of that, 148 00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:23.800 support this podcast. If you you know at the same 149 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:26.199 time and maybe even listen to ad free episodes. Keig, 150 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:29.839 Here's lesson do that all at patreon dot com slash 151 00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:32.560 show on the Shawi. There's a link in this description 152 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:35.079 go check it out. I also want to let you know, 153 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:37.240 because I did some quick googling, you were correct it 154 00:07:37.240 --> 00:07:43.040 was a Dan Drargins cover. That's my answer. Uh huh, 155 00:07:43.079 --> 00:07:45.399 All right, let's getting a Superman Blue. Let's do it 156 00:07:45.639 --> 00:07:47.879 well before we do that, Oh no, we have to 157 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:51.879 talk about the original Superman read Superman Blue story that 158 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:55.519 is actually an imaginary story that appeared first in Superman 159 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:58.920 volume one, number one, sixty two, because Superman one twenty 160 00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:02.360 three is actually volume two is July nineteen sixty three. 161 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:05.759 The script was written by Leo Dorfmann with art by 162 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:10.079 the amazing Kurt Swan. In the story, Superman must complete 163 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:13.879 a list of unachieved goals, including enlarging the shrunken bottle 164 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:17.759 City of Candor also includes eliminating crime and evil on Earth. 165 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:21.439 Using various types of kryptonite, Superman invents a machine that 166 00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:25.680 will increase his intelligence. The machine works and increases Superman's 167 00:08:25.720 --> 00:08:30.480 intelligence one hundredfold, but it has the unexpected side effect 168 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:35.720 of splitting Superman into twin beans, one outfitted in an 169 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:38.480 all red Superman costume and the other in an all 170 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:42.919 blue version, and the twins call themselves Superman Red and 171 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:48.879 Superman Blue. Now, these two Superman's use their enhanced intellects, 172 00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:53.840 and they first repaired Brainiac's enlarging ray, and after bringing 173

00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:58.240 all of the fragments of Krypton together, they create new Krypton, 174 00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:01.720 eliminating all existing crypt Den in the universe in the process, 175 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:06.120 successfully expanding Canndor on its surface and freeing its citizens 176 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:09.440 from their shrunken bottle prison. And at the urging of 177 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:15.080 Mermaid's Silver Age girlfriend Lorie Lamaris, the Superman's create an 178 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:18.440 underwater world for the citizens of Atlantis and enrange an 179 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:22.360 intercellar voyage to transport them to their new home, and 180 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:25.039 the two superman go on to create an anti evil ray, 181 00:09:25.080 --> 00:09:29.080 which in cure it seems like, you know, it's so 182 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:32.200 silver Age. If only the police of our time would 183 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:35.120 come up with the anti evil ray, we would cure 184 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:38.840 all criminal tendencies anyone. These two Supermans also place the 185 00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:41.639 ray into satellites in orbit around Earth, curing not only 186 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:45.200 villains as Lex Luthor and Mister Mixel Spilk, but reforming 187 00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:50.039 communists such as Nikita Khrushchev and Fidel Krastrou. Can you 188 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:51.000 tell this was the sixties. 189 00:09:51.159 --> 00:09:51.840 Wow. 190 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:55.039 The reformed Luther goes on to invent a serum that 191 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:59.039 cures all known diseases Wow, which the Superman dump into 192 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:02.919 the water supply. Supergirl then releases the entirety of the 193 00:10:02.919 --> 00:10:05.919 Phantom Zone inmates, who are all reformed by the Anti 194 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:08.919 Criminality Ray, and they immigrate to New Krypton in a 195 00:10:08.960 --> 00:10:12.720 spaceship provided by the Legion of Superheroes. With nearly all 196 00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:16.879 the world's problems resolved, the two Superman can now focus 197 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:21.120 on their personal lives, and by splitting up, they can 198 00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:26.480 finally resolve the love triangle between Superman Lois Lane and 199 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:31.679 Lana Lane. Superman Red proposes to Lois, and Superman Blue 200 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:35.480 proposes to Lana, and each woman claims her own Superman 201 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:38.600 and they have a triple wedding Superman Blue and Laanna, 202 00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:42.039 Superman Red and Lois, And they also convince Lois's sister 203 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:46.480 Lucy Lane into marrying Jimmy Olsen. Because you see, because 204 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:49.200 of the Sixties, Lucy Lane, the younger sister, no longer 205 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:52.919 had to wait for the older sister Lois to marry. 206 00:10:53.559 -->

00:10:56.879 Do you think the Superman's kissed different? Yes? What do 207 00:10:56.919 --> 00:10:59.240 you think it is? A better kiss? Sir Red? A Superman. 208 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:02.000 Red decides to live on New Krypton with Lois, and 209 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:05.120 he renounces his powers and raises a family. Well, Blue 210 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:08.399 remains on Earth and retires to devote his entire life 211 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:11.600 to scientific research and starting a superfamily of his own. 212 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:15.759 Superman Red is a better kisser because he's feistier. 213 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:20.799 If they're twins, yes, are their children's siblings instead of 214 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:21.559 being cousins? 215 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:26.200 Uh? I mean biologically they are siblings. They're half siblings. 216 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:28.519 Biologically they would be half Sylbeans because they should have 217 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:31.799 the exact same genetics. Yeah, barring the mother of course. Yes, 218 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:35.360 the Superman's. Yeah, so they're actually making a one big 219 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:39.840 super family. Creepy. Actually that means that Lana and Lois 220 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:41.960 are part of a polyamorous family. 221 00:11:42.039 --> 00:11:44.120 I think Lanna and Lois ever like swap for the night. 222 00:11:44.840 --> 00:11:47.159 They put on a wig and they're like, I'm Low's Laide. 223 00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:50.679 Well do you think the Superman swap they're colored? They can't. 224 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:53.440 Only their costumes are colored in the silver Rage. 225 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:55.799 Oh, they don't have like the they don't have like 226 00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:56.759 blue faces. 227 00:11:56.399 --> 00:12:00.720 Inherents like that. Nope, only the costumes. Their faces look 228 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:01.480 just like Superman. 229 00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:03.240 Also, I don't know if it's problematic that we call 230 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:05.440 them color and if it is, I apologize. 231 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:06.720 Colors is in red and boe. 232 00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:11.679 Yeah, so they were just like Superman, but like with 233 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:13.120 a red costume. 234 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:18.039 With a fully no color, just full red, full blue hot. Yeah. So, Ashley, 235 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:20.840 you're an editor in the nineteen nineties. Great, I was 236 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:22.799 an editor in the twenty tens. You're an editor in 237 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:25.200 the nineteen nineties working at DC Comics. I'm making a 238 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:27.200 good pay check. You're working in the nineteen nineties at 239 00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:30.440 DC Comics in New York City, and your boss, Mike 240 00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:34.039 Carlin comes up to you, Hey, Mike, great editor and says, hey, 241 00:12:34.440 --> 00:12:38.080 we're gonna modernize Superman Red and Superman Blue. You just 242 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:40.720 read the storyline. I gave you all the details of it. 243 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:47.080 What elements from that storyline would you bring forward? Ignoring 244 00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:48.799 what you know what they did? Okay? 245 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:53.240 If it was me, Yeah, I am genuinely like when 246 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:57.559 you described them as twins, which I would not have considered. Yeah, 247 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:02.360 I'm really interested in that and using like the metaphor 248 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:05.399 of like Superman's duality, you could play out if they 249 00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:09.200 are twins. Like that to me is very fascinating. The 250 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:12.039 color coding, of course, because you can sell two different 251 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:16.000 looks and you can sell two different acts, figures, t shirts, whatever. 252 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:18.320 But you're like, yeah, like, I really like the idea 253 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:21.080 that there's two of them at the same time. I 254 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:25.440 find that very amulant. I would also can like, I 255 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:28.559 would probably pitch because I like Superman and Lois being married. 256 00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:31.159 What if they have twins. 257 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:33.159 And they're they're red and blue? 258 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:36.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's probably where what I would That's 259 00:13:36.159 --> 00:13:37.960 me off the top of my head. You're Mike Carlin, 260 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:39.919 and you've given me no warning that this, uh, but 261 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:42.480 you're very lovely that this meeting is happening. That would 262 00:13:42.519 --> 00:13:43.799 be what I would pitch, certainly. 263 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:45.919 Well, let's get into a little bit of the production 264 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:48.679 info on this, because the story was not long enough 265 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:51.440 to carry to an entire casualism, but the production info 266 00:13:51.559 --> 00:13:55.840 behind this storyline is fascinating. Carl Kessel the amazing creator 267 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:58.840 of Impossible Jones who sometimes kicks our his books, but 268 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:01.159 he's mainly known as the create of Connor Kent or 269 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:05.559 con ell the Superboy clone, he says, and I quote 270 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:08.559 in an interview, the idea had come into my mind 271 00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:12.200 to give Superman completely different powers. Not only would this 272 00:14:12.279 --> 00:14:14.480 be a fun monkey wrench to throw at our hero, 273 00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:17.840 but on a story level, I saw lots of possibilities 274 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:21.440 to show Superman struggling, something that is not easy to 275 00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:24.559 do or often seen. With Superman for the

first time, 276 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:27.360 he wouldn't know what he was capable of. He wouldn't 277 00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:30.080 know what could or couldn't hurt him. And I liked 278 00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:34.240 the idea of showing Superman learning, pushing himself, and sometimes 279 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:37.840 failing because he didn't know what worked. It also gave 280 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:41.279 us the opportunity to have fights with old enemies but 281 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:45.120 with a new twist. And in the end, even though 282 00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:47.519 the real point of the arc would be it isn't 283 00:14:47.559 --> 00:14:51.080 the powers that make Superman who he is, it's Superman himself. 284 00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:54.080 And he said at the time, I had no idea 285 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:57.080 what those new powers might be. I actually wanted other 286 00:14:57.200 --> 00:15:00.320 people in the Superman group to contribute that part so 287 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:02.840 that more people were invested in the story. And I 288 00:15:02.919 --> 00:15:08.360 believe John Bogdanov suggested the energy powers. The whole red 289 00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:12.039 and Blue thing came later. Now we should also explain, 290 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:14.399 and we explained this in the Superman Dark Ages episode 291 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:15.840 which came out a couple weeks ago. We should one 292 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:18.559 hundred percent and go listen to that. At this time, 293 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:20.919 all the Superman titles were sort of being written by 294 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:24.159 a group of writers, because there were five Superman titles. 295 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:28.399 There were Superman Action comics, Adventures of Superman, Man of Steel, 296 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:30.840 Superman the Man of Steel, and Superman The Man of Tomorrow, 297 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:33.120 all written by different people. But they were part of 298 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:36.320 the Triangle era, which is which makes it confusing to 299 00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:38.000 try and organize your cover. So if you would look 300 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:40.000 at each of these covers each year, they would begin 301 00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:41.879 with new numbering and you'd see a little triangle on 302 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:43.720 there and it would say like nineteen ninety six one, 303 00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:45.600 and you would just follow those and you would know 304 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:48.440 in what order to in the storyline. So basically Superman 305 00:15:48.519 --> 00:15:54.039 during this time was like a forever, not ending, ongoing 306 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:56.399 serialized narrative across five. 307 00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:58.840 Books, which is quite a feat to pull off. Yes, 308 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:02.159 I just want to say, Carl cusso some really great Harley. 309 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:05.120 Coin comics as well. He did some of my favorites 310 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:11.679 he did. So this is how Superman actually got electric powers. 311 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:14.320 This is how Superman got his blue back. Yes, this 312 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:18.879 is how Superman blew himself airgame during That's a joke 313 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:21.080 for anybody out there. I hope you enjoyed it. During 314 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:24.240 the four issue event The Final Night, also written by 315 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:27.440 Carl kessel Hey, imagine that a being called the Sun 316 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:31.559 Eater attempted to destroy the Sun. This conflict temporarily blocked 317 00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:33.120 out a portion of the Sun, which of course is 318 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:36.279 where Superman draws his powers from. The problem was that 319 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:40.639 Superman's powers didn't return once the conflict ended. What and 320 00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:42.879 for a time he had to use the Fortress of 321 00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:46.840 Solitude to absorb solar energy so that he could power up, 322 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:50.960 but it wasn't sustainable. His powers would always wear away. 323 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:56.120 Now Superman's powers eventually during this time, he noticed began 324 00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:59.240 to shift and began to become more energy based. And 325 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:01.799 the actual prey to the electric Blue era is in 326 00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:04.960 a storyline called Power Shift, which runs through Superman number 327 00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:08.480 one twenty two, ventures A super Bowl number five forty 328 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:11.240 five at Action Comics number seven thirty two. In Superman 329 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:14.440 The Man of Steel number eighteen cover dated April through 330 00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:18.200 May of nineteen ninety seven, The story actually has its 331 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:21.079 origins a few months earlier in this with the debut 332 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:25.160 of the post crisis version of Candor City, where Superman 333 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:28.799 gets zapped with energy by a literal space wizard that 334 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:31.960 changes them so much that the robots at the Forces 335 00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:36.480 of Solitude no longer recognize his DNA as Kryptonian, and 336 00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:39.000 by the time we pick up here, the changes are 337 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:43.400 becoming more pronounced and more permanent. In the Power Shift storyline. 338 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:47.160 This storyline also deals with a newly married Lois and Clark, 339 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:51.119 and Clark ruining their toaster with some vague definition of 340 00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:54.480 inter electricity or magnetism that happens when he touches it. 341 00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:58.279 But most of the storyline, rather than being in vulnerable, 342 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:02.160 he's now intangible bullets

passed through him. He's wearing his 343 00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:04.519 normal Superman suit and he's just like, what is going on? 344 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:07.279 And he tries to use his X ray vision, but 345 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:12.720 in his vision he sees an incomprehensible mess of electromagnetic spectrum. 346 00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:17.000 The best though, is that during the storyline his new 347 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:20.440 powers allow him to interface with computers, which is presented 348 00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:23.720 and probably the greatest and most hilariously nineteen ninety seven 349 00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:26.640 way possible when he touches a computer, he can read 350 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:30.400 all his emails at once. Wow with his mind mmmmm 351 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:36.119 cool yep aol yes and ever. Also, every time he 352 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:38.319 touches a computer during this storyline, he opens his mouth 353 00:18:38.359 --> 00:18:41.480 and you hear that old like e you know, the 354 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:43.279 old like every time you logged into the Internet, which 355 00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:46.039 everybody that is in gen Z has no clue what 356 00:18:46.039 --> 00:18:46.559 that sounds like. 357 00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:50.039 Do you think he can interface with PC and Mac? 358 00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:52.640 But the PC's exploded immediately? What about Linux? 359 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:53.599 Well? 360 00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:57.759 Linux is an operated system on PCs. I got so. Yeah. 361 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:01.680 So the story which is actually about a battle against 362 00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:04.160 the Atomic Skull in a fight with Sarah Tak, an 363 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:07.119 alien who escapes Candor. Sarah Tak is a character that 364 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:09.599 also becomes scorn. He's a big blue guy with horns. 365 00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:13.599 Oh yeah, he sometimes wears Superman's costume. He's best forgotten about, 366 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:16.279 but he does. He is a big part of Superman 367 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:23.000 does exist. He does exist. So this storyline was basically 368 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:26.440 designed to show off Superman's new powers, which replaces old 369 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:29.680 ones in an intriguing way. There's a bystanderh again, who 370 00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:31.680 gets hit with a bullet that goes through Superman's in 371 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:36.079 tangil body, prompting a conservative newspaper colonist who works for 372 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:39.279 the Daily Planet to wonder if Superman is a Superman 373 00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:42.799 or a super menace. And there are also actually a 374 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:47.480 few instances where Superman's body completely loses the cohesion before 375 00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:50.319 he is able to pull it together. During the fight 376 00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:52.759 with the Atomic Skull, it is shown that he can 377 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:55.960 absorb radiation, and with the fight with Sarahtak which also 378 00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:58.759 happens during the storyline, it shows that he can well 379 00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:02.839 make his hand. He can make an energy construct made 380 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:05.319 out of lightning that is basically a big skull how 381 00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:09.440 Jordan's style and punched people in the face with it. Cool. Yeah. 382 00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:11.799 By the end of it, the new powers have become 383 00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:16.960 so overwhelming that Superman basically explodes into lightning and blacks 384 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:19.960 out the entirety of Metropolis for the second time that month. 385 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:26.000 Emil Hamilton Superman supporting character and person that works at 386 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:28.960 Star Labs. He solves the problem by building a containment 387 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:32.240 suit for Superman. However, the suit is not one hundred 388 00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:36.720 percent until it's provided with a new like micro they 389 00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:40.160 never quite discribed micro mesh fabric sure that is supplied 390 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:45.440 by Lex Luthor of course, which actually made everybody uncomfortable, 391 00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:50.160 but the alternative was basically letting Superman dissipate away into nothing. Yeah. Yeah, 392 00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:53.519 So Superman put on the suit, Wham bam, thinking Man, 393 00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:56.640 he turned blue, and Superman flew to Kansas once his 394 00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:59.440 powers were under control, where he said, hey, ma hey, Paul, 395 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.759 I'm a blue smurf with lightning powers. Now yeehaw, And 396 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:06.039 he took a little lightning finger and drew it on 397 00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:10.119 his his new suit and made the lightning super bowled 398 00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:12.640 ass and then he flew up into the sky. As 399 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:15.079 they were aping the original John Byrne the Man of 400 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:18.119 Steel when he first puts on the red and blue Superman. 401 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:20.759 It's almost exactly the same pose, except this time drawn 402 00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:24.119 by Dan Jergens, a really cool kind of poster. So 403 00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:28.759 in a second, we're going to talk about designing the 404 00:21:28.839 --> 00:21:31.359 new Superman suit, which again was a new feat new 405 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:34.720 costume for Superman, and what exactly his new powers are. 406 00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:41.440 But first we're gonna take an electric break and we're back. 407 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:44.039 Superman just got some new electric powers in a brand 408 00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:47.400 new blue outfit, or as the Pimp. In nineteen seventy nine, 409 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:51.839 Superman the movie would say

that's a bad outfit. Wow, 410 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:58.640 Ashley Jason, the electric blue Superman blue suit? Do you 411 00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:01.440 like it? I do? What do you like about it? 412 00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:02.640 It's just really cool. 413 00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:07.759 There is something so nineteen nineties about it, in the 414 00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:11.279 same way that static or static shock, if you will, 415 00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:15.680 just is really cool. I think a lot of it too, 416 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:19.119 is the color. The electric blue and the electric red 417 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:23.799 over that design are really feels very even though it's 418 00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:26.680 like thirty years old now fresh and modern in contemporary. 419 00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:32.960 When you just juxtapose them sure against the classic forty 420 00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:36.119 Superman costume, I just always thow. Even before I was 421 00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:38.200 really into Superman, I always thought that it was a cool, 422 00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:38.799 cool look. 423 00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:40.880 I mean, you think it's a cool look. I do. 424 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:44.680 I really think it's a really well designed costume. I 425 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:48.240 think the idea to give Superman blue skin is like 426 00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.920 what seals it? Yeah, it really when the right when 427 00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:55.160 artists like Howard Porter or Dan Jurgen's draw it looks 428 00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:59.000 awesome and I think it's the reason. And I even 429 00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:01.759 think the lightning esh shield looks awesome. 430 00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:03.599 I love it when the lightning comes out of his 431 00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:05.279 eyes and like off of his hair. 432 00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:06.559 I think that's really I. 433 00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:09.240 Think it makes Superman look truly alien for the first 434 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:12.400 time in a lot of ways, and powerful, very powerful. 435 00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:16.519 So they had an artist bake off for this, which 436 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:19.240 is something that they so in comics a lot of times. 437 00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:21.559 What they'll do is they'll literally just open up to 438 00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:24.000 the entire company and say, we need a new suit. 439 00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:27.079 Fres draw anything, and whatever we think is the best 440 00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:28.440 design is going to be the winner, and then you'll 441 00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:30.039 find the concept art in the back of a collection. 442 00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:32.960 A couple of years later, you can find they actually 443 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:37.880 published it in the DC comics. The alternate designs for this, 444 00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:39.759 none of them are that great. I don't have a 445 00:23:39.799 --> 00:23:41.279 link to it. You can find it, you can google it.

446 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:44.279 It's not bad. So I wanted to ask you they 447 00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:46.559 had all the Superman artists to draw on the suit. 448 00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:52.680 Do you know which artist is actually the designer of 449 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:56.440 the electric blue Superman suit. I really want to say John. 450 00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:59.160 Bog but John Bog Danna Yeah, but I don't know 451 00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:00.000 if that's right. 452 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:03.480 It is incorrect. I feel like you're gonna tell me 453 00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:05.240 and I'm gonna be like, oh, yeah, I did. No. 454 00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:09.799 So this is an artist that is not really connected 455 00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:13.519 to Superman, but he worked on Superman during this time period, 456 00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:16.440 so I will tell you, just tell me. In these designs, 457 00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:19.000 Dan Jurgen's design sort of like a booster gold looking suit, 458 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:22.240 make sure he had normal skin. Stuart Immermann kind of 459 00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:24.799 designed a thing where he kind of looks like he's 460 00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:29.559 the Molten Man. And then John Bogg bogged enough made 461 00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:31.799 him sort of like a more of a lightning guy. 462 00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:37.920 But the artist who designed this is Ron Friends, who 463 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:42.880 is more famously known as the co creator of MC 464 00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:49.039 two's Spider Girl. Right wait, writer Tom defalcon, Yeah, baby, so, 465 00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:56.720 and that's also gonna bring us into in action figure spotlight. 466 00:24:56.759 --> 00:25:01.279 Oh boy, which of your twenty seven incorrect? 467 00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:03.519 There are not that many Superman Blue action figures, but 468 00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:05.359 I do own a bunch of them. But in the 469 00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:08.799 nineties they made a bunch of Justice League, uh you know, 470 00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:11.759 Total Justice. They were Total Justice repaints of Superman Blue. 471 00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:15.000 They did red and Blue, but the best ones ever 472 00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:19.039 are for DC Classics. They did do Superman Red and 473 00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:20.960 Superman bluin and the gave you little Lightning bolts. But 474 00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:23.480 I also have fun ones from Superman Batman where they 475 00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:29.000 base them on Ed McGinnis. Oh yeah, but I have 476 00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:30.599 I have both of them and it's literally the same 477 00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:34.039 actually just repainted. Yes, they're which is fine. I have 478 00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:37.240 I think almost all of the Superman Blue. I'm a 479 00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:38.720 couple of them. But I was surprised a couple of 480 00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:41.279 years ago, uh in Target when we saw that there's 481 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:44.319 like larger twelve inch figure. Y. Yeah, and for one 482 00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:47.680 of them, they did Superman Blue, which really surprising, which 483 00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:49.839 just goes to tell you that that design is still 484 00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:53.160 so Ron friends did a great deal. Ron Frands is 485 00:25:53.240 --> 00:25:56.880 quoted insaying that the original inspiration for this design was 486 00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.680 that for years, as a kid, he thought Superman's was 487 00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:05.839 blue the highlight. So he that is so pure and 488 00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:09.519 like so sweet. I love that he took that thought 489 00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:11.839 and was just like, I'm gonna make Superman blue. And 490 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:14.000 he took it to the nth degree. Yeah, yeah, to 491 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:18.279 use it, dizeque and he did an astounding job on 492 00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:19.200 this design. 493 00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:19.160 I think. 494 00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:19.480 Yeah. 495 00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:21.519 It's also one of the reasons why, like every animated 496 00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:23.559 show does a version of this, yes, because the look 497 00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:24.160 is so good. 498 00:26:24.279 --> 00:26:28.640 Now, let's explain Superman's new powers. Okay, here's the big thing. 499 00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:37.039 He now transforms into human Clark Kent. What does that mean? Okay, 500 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:41.559 when he's Superman Blue. He's fully electric, He's basically full energy, 501 00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:47.279 and when he turns it off, he becomes basically naked. 502 00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:52.599 Clark Kent completely invulnerable. He is a mortal, so he 503 00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:55.680 can hurt his toe so completely, you use it. Invulnerable, 504 00:26:55.720 --> 00:27:00.519 completely vulnerable, apologies, apologies. So he can stub his toe, 505 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:02.799 he can nick himself. He also has a hard time 506 00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:04.559 when he goes the Daily Planet now because he's not 507 00:27:04.599 --> 00:27:08.200 a speed typer anymore. Yeah, so that is like the 508 00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:10.960 biggest change is that Clark Kent is actually immortal. So 509 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:13.599 if he's not wearing clothes when he turns into Superman Blue, 510 00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:15.720 when he turns back to Clark Kent, he's naked. That's 511 00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:17.680 very funny too, but he has to has to be 512 00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:22.680 wearing clothes. Plus Clark's method of shaving. Previously, he'd reflect 513 00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:24.839 his heat vision off a curve section of the spaceship 514 00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:27.000 that brought him to Earth, because you know, there's nothing 515 00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:29.079 more pleasant for Lois than to wake up each morning 516 00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:31.720 to the smell of

burning human hair. Love it. But 517 00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:34.200 now I'm going to assume that he uses a Gillette 518 00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:36.920 razor because that is not the sponsor of this podcast, 519 00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:40.279 but was the sponsor of two only seventeen's Justice League. Everybody, 520 00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:43.000 remember that that's true. That's why Bruce Wayne shaves his 521 00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:46.039 beer during that movie. Remember when they sent you like 522 00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:49.039 one hundred and fifty seven racers? They did, they did. 523 00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:52.279 Thank you, Giuleette, please sponsor this podcast. Yeah, but Superman 524 00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:55.839 Blue also had had energy power, such as sentient energy. 525 00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:01.079 Having become a being made completely out of electromatic electromagnetic energy, 526 00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:03.559 Superman had to concentrate at all times to have a 527 00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:06.119 body at all, and once in a while, however, he'd 528 00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:09.119 run into a situation where his containment suit could no 529 00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:13.079 longer help him maintain his solidity, and he would become 530 00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:21.319 formless electricity. He could also alter his appearance. Now it's 531 00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:24.400 only shown a couple of times. Again, his suit would 532 00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:27.799 be blue and white, although he could change his look. 533 00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:30.880 One time he mimicked the Raise costume, although eventually he 534 00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:33.240 was able to mimic everything to where he could completely 535 00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:35.839 change his look. One time, when he impersonated a Candorian 536 00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:40.359 peacekeeper officer, he could change his density. Instead of bullets 537 00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:42.400 bouncing off of a Superman's body, they go right through 538 00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:44.599 him and he had to actually consider who was standing 539 00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:48.559 behind him. For the first time in this thing vision powers. 540 00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:53.880 He lost telescopic he he lost X ray vision. Basically, 541 00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:56.359 he gained the ability to see the energy signatures and 542 00:28:56.519 --> 00:29:01.359 multiple wavelengths. He also could follow radiation trails in radio waves. 543 00:29:02.440 --> 00:29:05.440 He could absorb energy. One of the reasons why the 544 00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:07.880 Man of Steel was renamed the Man of Energy was 545 00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:11.640 of the ability to absorb virtually any form of energy 546 00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:15.160 into his body. One fee he performed repeatedly was absorbing 547 00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:20.279 nuclear radiation and also when during the Grant Morrison Howard 548 00:29:20.519 --> 00:29:23.839 Porter JLA Run, he absorbed the energy of a hologram 549 00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:26.599 that was programmed by Lex Luthor as part of the 550 00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:31.720 JLA Revenge Squad. Although if he absorbed too much energy, 551 00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:34.039 he would sometimes have to release it or else he 552 00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:38.000 would explode. So he could also do energy conversion. While 553 00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:42.680 Superman's powers primarily involved electric and electric neetic energy, he 554 00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:45.759 could actually convert numerous forms of energy into lightning and back. 555 00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:50.599 He could also energy project basically shoot lightey bolts. Okay, yeah, 556 00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:55.960 but he probably he became faster as Electric Superman Superman 557 00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:59.519 belue because with his normal powers, Superman could zap to 558 00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:04.920 any location he was familiar with virtually instantaneously, just by 559 00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:08.000 clearly picturing it. He could also fly at a velocity 560 00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:11.079 out in par with lightning. That's the speed of light. Yeah, 561 00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:14.519 and generally his flight end zapping were signaled by a 562 00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:17.319 loud thunderclap. One of the unique methods he found of travel. 563 00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:20.039 It was actually inspired by the Adam Ray Palmer that 564 00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:22.359 he had the ability that he could travel into a 565 00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:26.200 phone line and go directly to somebody's location. And probably 566 00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:33.160 his coolest new power magnets. Superman's suit emphasized the electric 567 00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:36.480 nature of his powers, but his powers were actually electromagnetic. 568 00:30:36.759 --> 00:30:40.720 He could magnetize metals, he could attract and repel metals, 569 00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:47.039 basically creating his own personal tractor beam. And one time, 570 00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:50.599 when the Demon Gasped began pulling the Moon towards Earth, 571 00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:54.440 Superman up the ante by using the electricity from the 572 00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:59.079 JLA Watchtower to create a magnetic field around the Moon 573 00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:03.160 that was the opposite polarity to Earth's that automatically repelled 574 00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:05.880 it from the planet. I have talked about this before, 575 00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:10.799 I've said it again. This is the best use of 576 00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:14.599 superman Blues powers in all of comic books, and this 577 00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:17.640 is by Grant Morrison in the Justice League. We will 578 00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:20.279 talk a little bit about that later, but not that much. Ashley, 579 00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:24.079 you get one of the electric blues powers, which one 580 00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:25.720 you take interesting? 581 00:31:26.559 -->

00:31:29.279 Probably the teleboarding I think. I think that would be 582 00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:30.799 really useful. I would never have to go on a 583 00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:35.759 plane again. I would basically be Kurt Wagner's the Incredible Nightcollar. 584 00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:38.240 So like that is appealing to me. Yeah, I've probably 585 00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:39.000 take celepretation. 586 00:31:39.079 --> 00:31:41.839 How about you? Uh yeah, one hundred percent. I think 587 00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:43.920 the instant to be able to think about anywhere I 588 00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:45.680 want to go and then boom, I'm there. Yeah, yeah, 589 00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:48.039 that's really sweet. I don't need no phone line powers. 590 00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:50.599 So here are some of the details about what happened 591 00:31:50.680 --> 00:31:53.000 during this period of Superman Blue, because a lot of 592 00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:55.799 it is just Superman discovering his powers and going to 593 00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:58.559 Candor and fighting Matallo, and it's kind of same old, 594 00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:00.759 same old, except Superman has electricity powers. 595 00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:01.000 Yeh. 596 00:32:01.720 --> 00:32:04.119 Jimmy Olsen during his time was no longer the Daily Planet, 597 00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:05.759 and he was trying to make a name for himself 598 00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:10.279 as a television reporter. So Jimmy Olsen during his time 599 00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:13.839 believed that he had figured out his best friend superman 600 00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:17.000 secret identity and he planned to announce it live on 601 00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:21.559 the air for ratings. At the last minute, Jimmy chickened 602 00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:25.359 out and falsely announced that Superman did not have a 603 00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:28.599 secret identity, which caused him to be immediately fired from 604 00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:32.680 his television job. Then we also got to meet a 605 00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:37.559 brand new character, Ashley m Superman read. Hey, that's fun. Yeah. 606 00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:40.200 So the next chapter in the saga was a Superman 607 00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:42.920 Red and Superman Blue one shot, which I actually have 608 00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:47.480 in this studio. It's somewhere over there. Yes, it's in 609 00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:50.599 our spinner rack. Oh my god, I just realized that 610 00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.799 it's speaking. It's three D. Yeah, it comes with three 611 00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:56.920 D glass. I had no idea. Yeah. Wow. This storyline 612 00:32:56.920 --> 00:33:00.240 had Cyborg Superman and toy Man trap Electric Superman in 613 00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:03.359 a cage, which had the unintended effect of splitting the 614 00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:07.079 Man of Steel into two beans. Superman Blue was calm 615 00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:09.920 and preferred to use his intellect to solve problems, while 616 00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:14.000 Superman Red was angry, quick to action, and decisive, and 617 00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:17.880 these true grew to harbor immense disdain for each other, 618 00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:22.720 which neither had any interest in becoming the same person again, 619 00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:26.319 and this caused Lois Lane to literally kick them out 620 00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:29.400 of their condo until the problem was resolved because you 621 00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:33.400 couldn't stand them always arguing with each other. Now, Ashley, yes, 622 00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:39.000 who do you like better? Superman Red or Superman Blue? Honestly, 623 00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:40.839 think about that design? Do you think it works better 624 00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:43.519 with blue? Think? Or looks better with red? 625 00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:47.240 Red is my favorite color, so I have a huge 626 00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:53.000 bias toward it in that sense, I think it looks 627 00:33:53.079 --> 00:33:53.960 better blue. 628 00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:57.480 I'm holding up the Superman Red Superman Blue comic to 629 00:33:58.480 --> 00:34:00.240 I actually don't think I have three D glasses. So 630 00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:03.079 with the whole issue, name would you who? I don't know, 631 00:34:03.319 --> 00:34:06.640 I don't know what's of fad. I like your Man blue? Yeah, 632 00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:09.960 I always like your Man Blue. Now, Secondly, Ashley Lois 633 00:34:10.039 --> 00:34:12.079 is a modern woman, and I realized that it was 634 00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:14.960 the nineties. But you know, why not? You know, uh, 635 00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:17.280 double the battery if you know what I'm saying. 636 00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:20.599 Yo, I have been holding that joke back for so long. 637 00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:22.559 I was like again, that's why I was like, who 638 00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:23.519 do you think this is better? 639 00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:23.920 What? 640 00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:24.239 Like? 641 00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:25.239 Literally? 642 00:34:25.239 --> 00:34:25.559 Why not? 643 00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:29.800 They are both her husband? That's right, it's not cheating. 644 00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:33.159 And if you go off the original storyline, somebody's getting 645 00:34:33.159 --> 00:34:34.559 married and having a family no matter what. 646 00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:38.079 Right, uh huh uh huh I mean, look, I would 647 00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:40.840 if I was Leslie. 648 00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:43.199 Do double that battery, for sure, double the battery. We 649 00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:46.280 double the fun. Yeah, yeah, that's gonna be the theme song. 650 00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:53.239 Here comes Superman Blue. He'll give you a son red Son. Yeah, 651 00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:55.199 I get it all right. So of course this was 652 00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:57.400 the story. This is a story that is a post 653 00:34:57.400 --> 00:34:59.679 crisis

update of the classics over hhale that I already 654 00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:03.400 told you, Yes, John Bugdanoff, who I told you about earlier. Yes, 655 00:35:03.559 --> 00:35:06.480 artist said, he said, and I quote that was really 656 00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:09.480 fun because Superman Blue, for me at least, became this 657 00:35:09.679 --> 00:35:13.159 serious Superman very much. The Dan Jurgens sort of grim 658 00:35:13.239 --> 00:35:17.559 Hero and Superman Read was the late nineteen forties bantering 659 00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:20.559 Superman who would just punch something and later make a 660 00:35:20.599 --> 00:35:22.960 pun about it. He was a superman who seemed to 661 00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:25.039 have a lot of fun doing super stuff. So I 662 00:35:25.119 --> 00:35:26.559 really enjoyed Superman Read. 663 00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:28.880 Also, if you listen to our recent mega episode where 664 00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:30.760 we go wh Jason goes through like all of Superman 665 00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:34.280 history Golden eight, Superman like really did like punch people. 666 00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:37.039 Yep, give him a stern word and move on, and 667 00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:40.000 give him a stern joke and moved on. Now, eventually 668 00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:44.719 these two Superman were lusted over by Queen Maxima, and 669 00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:46.880 it built to a story that had to end in 670 00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:50.679 a giant clue conclusion called Behold the Millennium Giants, and 671 00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:53.000 we will tell you all about these Behold the Millennium 672 00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:59.039 Giants right after this, and we're back Superman read Superman Blue, 673 00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:01.800 double the Battery, double of fun. As we said, they're 674 00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:05.280 fighting giant cow slash statue guys that are sort of 675 00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:07.960 best forgotten and these things that are sort of best forgotten. 676 00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:09.559 There are a race of monsters known as the Millennium 677 00:36:09.639 --> 00:36:13.079 Giants who were summoned to Earth and began to march 678 00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:15.599 all over the world and cause havoc and destruction. They 679 00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:19.000 eventually obliterated the nation of Markovia, which is the home 680 00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:21.639 of Terra of the New Teen Titans and Geo Forsta, 681 00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:25.280 also a hero Better Lot Forgotten and the Jla rallied 682 00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:28.519 to take up the fight and to defeat the Moneyum Giants. 683 00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:33.880 Superman Red and Superman Blue both expended the entirety of 684 00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:39.559 their energy, and according to Martian Manhunter, during that storyline, 685 00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:43.679 he did some energy scans. Couldn't find Superman Red, couldn't 686 00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:49.880 find Superman Blue, so thusly Superman died in nineteen ninety 687 00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:55.679 eight for the second time. And yeah, I mean, Ashley, 688 00:36:55.719 --> 00:36:57.880 how did you feel about the second death of Superman 689 00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:00.760 in nineteen ninety eight, devas stuff? I mean, I don't 690 00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:04.320 think I was a way of course you weren't aware 691 00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.159 about it because of what didn't happen. Literally the next 692 00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:10.119 month they published. They published in June of nineteen ninety eight, 693 00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:12.440 they published an issue called Superman Forever, which is by 694 00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:16.199 Carl Cassel, Dan Jurgen, Stuart Immom and John bugdanav Louise Simonson, 695 00:37:16.239 --> 00:37:19.480 Tom Grumm and Valsamachus, John Byrn Kieren Dwyer, Norm Brayfuggle, 696 00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:22.760 Anthony Williams, Dick Jior, Donald Scott Eaton, Steve Yo, Paul, Ryan, 697 00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.480 Brett Breeding, Dennis Rode, air Klass Johnson, Hillary Barta, Joe 698 00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:29.480 Robinstein and Jose Junior and Dennis Young k Basically anybody 699 00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:32.360 that had worked on Superman within the last fifteen years 700 00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:36.760 worked on this issue. Has a beautiful, beautiful what do 701 00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:41.000 you lenticular cover yep, where it's an Alex Ross painting 702 00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:47.280 and it is Superman Clark Kent getting ready to open 703 00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:49.199 the shirt. And then when you turn it. He opens 704 00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:51.079 a shirt and there's a Superman. He's taking off the classes. 705 00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:56.400 So this is how Superman Forever begins. It reveals what 706 00:37:56.440 --> 00:38:00.960 happened to Superman. He's not dead, he's just sleeping. But 707 00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:04.079 he wakes up. Yep, he wakes up in a crater. 708 00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:07.559 He lands out of the sky in a crater outside 709 00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:13.920 the Kent Farm in Kansas, worrying nothing. His original Superman 710 00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:20.880 costume and he has his old powers back comics. How 711 00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:31.679 this happened his comics is literally never explained. Yeah, I 712 00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:36.400 love it. The explanation is vague. And Superman talking to 713 00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:39.840 Mau and Paul, he just goes, well, maybe ours rewarded 714 00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:42.559 for saving the world. Mau and pauw and they're like, Clark, 715 00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:44.960 that's stupid, and that's vague. Explain this. 716 00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:48.920 You're from Kansas. I cannot believe you're doing the sacks. 717 00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:55.760 I know, I know, I look at So he thinks 718 00:38:55.800 --> 00:38:59.440 that he was returned to normal just through the good 719 00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:03.360 of the universe. So it's basically swept

under the rug. 720 00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:07.679 So I went back to since the interview that I 721 00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:11.719 had with the great creator Carl Kessel, and I should 722 00:39:11.719 --> 00:39:14.719 have reached out to him. Actually us I should have 723 00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:17.599 emailed the mask in this podcast. We ran out of time. Everybody, 724 00:39:17.639 --> 00:39:19.519 It's fine, we'll get him on the show eventually one day. 725 00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:23.239 But he actually talks about the ending of the Superman 726 00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:30.280 Blue arc, and he's not really happy with it, you know. 727 00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:33.800 So he says, and I quote, I don't think the 728 00:39:33.880 --> 00:39:36.400 New Powers arc was resolved as well as it could 729 00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:38.559 have been. Since I had come up with the idea, 730 00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:41.480 I did propose an ending where we learned that some 731 00:39:41.679 --> 00:39:44.559 new villain had found a way to switch his powers 732 00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:48.559 with Superman. So now this villain had all of Superman's 733 00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:52.800 powers while Superman had his, and just as Superman was 734 00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:55.239 learning how to use these new powers, so was the 735 00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:58.280 bad guy. The bad guy starts wrecking way havoc in 736 00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:00.880 way Superman of course, would never do, and Superman has 737 00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:03.840 to stop him, and basically Superman has to find a 738 00:40:03.880 --> 00:40:06.880 way to defeat himself. He does, of course, and then 739 00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:09.880 the powers are transferred back to the proper bodies. And 740 00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:12.679 then that way, that gave us a villain with powers 741 00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:16.639 that everyone knows can beat Superman's powers. I thought that 742 00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:19.159 would be a cool note to end on Mike Carl 743 00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:21.639 and the editor overruled that idea, saying that he felt 744 00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:24.400 it was too much like Venom slash Spider Man, and 745 00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:26.800 it didn't seem that way to me, but maybe it was. 746 00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:31.920 How what do I know? So the status quo of 747 00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:36.199 Superman is completely reset. We have Superman back in his 748 00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:39.679 old costume, back with his old powers, Jimmy is suddenly 749 00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:43.599 just working to the Daily Planet again, and Superman is Superman. Now. 750 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:48.639 This isn't the end of Electric Superman slash Superman Blue. 751 00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:50.840 The character was sort of returned with with a character 752 00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:53.599 named Strange Visitor, where she had the same costume and powers. 753 00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:57.280 I don't think she's that interesting. Also, there was the 754

00:40:57.800 --> 00:41:01.440 Lana Lang Superwoman series. She was basically a version of 755 00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:04.480 a Superwoman read where she had electricity powers. And then 756 00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:06.039 there are some hints at the time of this podcast 757 00:41:06.039 --> 00:41:09.039 of John Kent becoming Electric in the future. But I 758 00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:12.519 want to talk about why I love Electric Superman to 759 00:41:12.679 --> 00:41:16.440 end this podcast. Please do. Here's why I love Electric Superman. 760 00:41:17.719 --> 00:41:24.159 For me, the storyline is not bad. It's frustrating because 761 00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:29.639 it has so much untapped potential. I think the problem 762 00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:32.239 is that in the nineties nobody really did anything interesting 763 00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:35.519 with it. It ran for an entire year fifty plus 764 00:41:35.559 --> 00:41:39.119 comic books, and the only truly memorable use of these 765 00:41:39.159 --> 00:41:42.480 powers were during the Grant Morrison Howard Porter Jla run, 766 00:41:43.119 --> 00:41:44.840 which is also one of the best runs of the 767 00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:46.679 nineties and the best Soos League run of all time. 768 00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:51.599 But still, I thought that this was such an amazing 769 00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:55.400 shocking no pun intended shocking. I did not see this coming. 770 00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:58.000 I remember seeing this comic on stands and being stunned 771 00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:02.760 by it. Yeah, and I love that because sometimes comic 772 00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:06.559 books are too precious and too safe with their characters 773 00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:12.480 and their franchises, and sometimes these wild alterations can lead 774 00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:16.480 to amazing stories and amazing things. That's how we literally 775 00:42:16.519 --> 00:42:19.559 got Star Trek the Next Generation in nineteen eighty seven 776 00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:21.840 instead of them just making a reboot of Captain Kirk. 777 00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:26.119 It's a wild swing, it's a great look, and I 778 00:42:26.119 --> 00:42:30.639 would rather have my favorite characters take wild chances even 779 00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:33.199 when they don't work, than just give me the same 780 00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:36.000 story of somebody locking up the Joker and Ragham Asylum 781 00:42:36.039 --> 00:42:40.639 again for the five thousandth time. So that's why I 782 00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:45.599 love Superman Blue. I maybe I love it for the potential, 783 00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:48.960 but I don't think it ever got to where it 784 00:42:49.039 --> 00:42:52.840 should have been, and if I ever get to write Superman, 785 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:56.400 I hopefully will change that. But I want to ask you, actually, 786 00:42:56.599 --> 00:43:01.440 what are your thoughts overall on Superman Blue. 787 00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:05.599 I've always enjoyed

every Superman Blue I've ever read. I've 788 00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:09.280 never I'm not like super super proficient and familiar with 789 00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:13.559 the character and with the run, but I've never never 790 00:43:13.639 --> 00:43:16.199 not I've always had a good time engaging with this 791 00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:17.760 character in this form, and. 792 00:43:17.719 --> 00:43:18.760 I think you really nailed it. 793 00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:23.599 Like I admire the audacity of the creators and of 794 00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:27.719 DC doing this with Superman, particularly in the wake of 795 00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:31.639 the death of Superman, where they'd already presented so many 796 00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:35.280 alternate takes on Superman and really like messed with an 797 00:43:35.360 --> 00:43:37.880 updated and challenged his continuity and who he is as 798 00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:40.320 a character like this, coming on the keels of that 799 00:43:41.599 --> 00:43:44.159 is a really brave choice, because they could have just 800 00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:46.559 settled back with the status quo, which is kind of 801 00:43:46.599 --> 00:43:48.559 what happens to him after this for quite a while, 802 00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:54.480 until till John comes along, or I guess arguably in 803 00:43:54.519 --> 00:43:55.920 the New fifty two where were just kind of like 804 00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:59.679 reboot him. But yeah, I think Superman Blue is cool, 805 00:43:59.679 --> 00:44:01.559 and I think think a lot of the reason why 806 00:44:01.599 --> 00:44:04.440 this character persists is because the visual is so strong. 807 00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:07.519 There's always somebody cause playing this character at any convention 808 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:07.960 you go to. 809 00:44:08.199 --> 00:44:10.480 Because it's a cool look. Yeah. Like whether or not 810 00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:13.480 you think the run is perfect, it's not. 811 00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:17.719 It resonates. It's this character resonates for a lot of reasons. 812 00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:19.360 And I think that's also why they keep making action 813 00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:21.320 figures of them. And again they keep putting this character 814 00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:22.440 in cartoons. 815 00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:24.519 Because it's cool. Yeah, there you go. All right, now 816 00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:26.159 it's time to get into the recommended reading. 817 00:44:26.440 --> 00:44:28.320 Yes where if you enjoyed this and you want to 818 00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:30.159 go on your own electric journey with Superman, you can 819 00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:33.000 go to geek history lesson dot com, slash recommended reading, 820 00:44:33.199 --> 00:44:36.719 pick up Jason's recommendations in your reading form of choice, 821 00:44:36.760 --> 00:44:37.880 and learn something. 822 00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:41.639 Why don't chest? So there are not many Superman Blue 823 00:44:42.119 --> 00:44:45.840 stories available in print, so I had to stretch on 824 00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:49.480 this one. The first one is there's a trade called 825 00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:51.559 Superman Blue. Yeah, they released it a couple of years ago. 826 00:44:51.719 --> 00:44:55.400 It only collects like, I think the like first twenty 827 00:44:55.519 --> 00:44:59.719 issues of the storyline or the first like fifteen. It's 828 00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:03.599 really awesome. It's a really great trade. I don't think 829 00:45:03.599 --> 00:45:05.719 it's sold very well. I don't know if we'll ever 830 00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:08.199 see a volume two, but I think you would need 831 00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:10.880 like four volumes to complete it. All that sounds about right. 832 00:45:11.679 --> 00:45:13.159 If they do, I will buy every one of them. 833 00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:14.519 I don't think they're going to do it, but they're 834 00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:17.599 all on DC un limit if you want. But the 835 00:45:17.639 --> 00:45:20.280 next one is Our World's at War, which is the 836 00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:22.239 next Superman. That's where Jeff Lobe and stuff like that, 837 00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:24.199 and I talk about it because that's where Strange Visitor 838 00:45:24.199 --> 00:45:26.880 pops up. Okay, yeah, so that is sort of continuing 839 00:45:26.880 --> 00:45:31.360 the legacy of Superman Blue. And the last one is 840 00:45:31.400 --> 00:45:34.199 Superman Red and Blue the anthology series, just because that 841 00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:36.440 sort of plays in the AA and they're really great 842 00:45:36.519 --> 00:45:38.880 one off stories, so go check that out. And it's 843 00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:40.800 an alliteration on the name. But that's about it. There's 844 00:45:40.840 --> 00:45:43.119 as much more I whack, like the first volume of 845 00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:47.559 JLA on there. Second volume actually thanks what you're looking for, Yeah, 846 00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:50.440 but that those are actually the best Superman Blue storylines, 847 00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:54.119 Like if you go look for JLA Rock of Ages, 848 00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:57.599 Superman Blue is all over that. And you could include 849 00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:00.480 the Phil Jimenez Super One series as well, because she's 850 00:46:00.519 --> 00:46:02.440 basically a Superman Blue as well. It's a good book, 851 00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:04.840 and I remember being shocked by Indian reading that issue. 852 00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:06.960 They're like, oh my god, they're doing Superman Red but 853 00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:11.760 with Lana that's amazing. Yeah, so that's it. Let's get 854 00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:14.519 into the Honor Roll. What is that, Ashley? The Honor 855 00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:17.039 Roll is if you go to Apple Podcasts. I also 856 00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:20.039 think we're going to start including Spotify. Are we really? 857 00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:21.960 That's up to you. That's up to

you. We'll go 858 00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:23.800 leave it. Okay, Well, well you know what here we are. 859 00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:25.440 We're gonna start from here, Ashley. I'm gonna leave it 860 00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:27.599 to you that you can leave a fire star review 861 00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:30.920 on Spotify I think, or Apple Podcasts and we will 862 00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:31.440 read on the air. 863 00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:34.760 You're right, if you are a nice international person, at 864 00:46:34.840 --> 00:46:37.079 least on Apple Podcasts, we can't see your reviews. Please 865 00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:39.360 take a screenshot. Emails geek Histrails at gmail dot com 866 00:46:39.400 --> 00:46:40.199 and let us know where. 867 00:46:40.039 --> 00:46:41.440 You are from. But if you want to break the 868 00:46:41.480 --> 00:46:43.599 seal and see if we can see your international reviews 869 00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:45.480 on Spotify, go for it. Yeah, why not? 870 00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:49.840 We have one Verson joining the Honor Roll today with 871 00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:54.039 a wonderful, wonderful username of night Wing beyond three cool 872 00:46:54.039 --> 00:46:57.559 who says totally dope podcast. Thanks for all the cool lessons. 873 00:46:57.599 --> 00:46:59.480 I work night shift and you guys totally make my 874 00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:03.360 time go by faster. Oh hear, Nightwing is my favorite, 875 00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:05.320 just like Jason, So that made me like you all 876 00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:08.760 right off the I understand you two are definitely the 877 00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:10.119 namic duo of podcasting. 878 00:47:10.119 --> 00:47:10.480 Thank you. 879 00:47:10.519 --> 00:47:12.320 I hope you eventually do a lesson on the question 880 00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:15.480 or leaf Falk's the Phantom. Thank you again so much. 881 00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:18.280 I think the question is definitely going to happen, just 882 00:47:18.280 --> 00:47:21.000 depends on when I think so, I mean the Phantom 883 00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:23.199 per if they make a new Phantom movie. 884 00:47:23.239 --> 00:47:25.320 I was gonna say, if the character, like a lot 885 00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:26.480 of people will be like, what are you going to 886 00:47:26.519 --> 00:47:28.599 do this character? And it's like, oh, well, when something 887 00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:30.960 lifts their profile usually is the answer. 888 00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:35.159 So welcome to the uh teachers le I think beyond 889 00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:39.480 free it's going on there today. Jason in there, I 890 00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:43.039 mean Jesus, Clark Kent came in again. Can't keep him 891 00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:44.440 out and he ruined the toaster. 892 00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:45.079 M hm. 893 00:47:45.639 --> 00:47:48.920 So the toaster's on fire and Clark Kent's just kind 894 00:47:48.920 --> 00:47:52.039 of staring at it. Yeah, and we all know, we 895 00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:55.880 all saw the lightning bowl go from his fingers. We know, look, 896 00:47:56.079 --> 00:47:59.480 look here, we all here at the Mine University Babble 897 00:47:59.559 --> 00:48:04.239 of Safety in Smallville, Kansas. We all know that he's Superman. 898 00:48:04.880 --> 00:48:07.320 But you know, if we tell him, it's gonna hurt 899 00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:09.880 us feelings and then he might not save the earth 900 00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:12.199 the next time imperio X comes around, and we can't 901 00:48:12.199 --> 00:48:16.880 have that, there won't be an earth. So it's look it, 902 00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:19.719 burnt toast. I'm sorry you're joining the teacher's lounge burnt 903 00:48:19.719 --> 00:48:22.280 Toast on Burnt Toast day. But you know, just ignore 904 00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:25.320 the big duns in the corner. And you know, next 905 00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:28.639 time he tells you look, he might also rip open 906 00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:31.039 his shirt and be like, look at my my electric 907 00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:33.960 guess right here. Just ignore him. It's fine, just Pike Adam. 908 00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:36.199 Just walk past him. He's fine, He's in us and 909 00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:39.559 he's fine. That's what's going on in the teacher line. Great. 910 00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:43.159 So if you want to follow and download this podcast, 911 00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:47.880 don't forget to go to iTunes, go to Apple podcast 912 00:48:48.039 --> 00:48:51.119 whatever it's called Spotify, click that follow, click that download, 913 00:48:51.159 --> 00:48:54.000 and if you liked this episode, please tell a friend. 914 00:48:54.039 --> 00:48:56.159 That's the easy sway for this podcast to grow. Ashley, 915 00:48:56.159 --> 00:48:58.079 where can they find this podcast on social media. 916 00:48:58.280 --> 00:49:00.559 You can find us at Facebook dot com slash geek 917 00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:04.360 History Lesson, on Twitter at GHL podcast, and on Instagram 918 00:49:04.360 --> 00:49:07.239 at geek History Lesson. A. If you're leaving these reviews, 919 00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:10.320 we're doing some giveaways on the Instagram, so I'll be 920 00:49:10.360 --> 00:49:12.079 sure to pop that over, pop over there and take 921 00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:13.360 advantage of that. I might win something. 922 00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:16.800 Follow Ashley on Twitter and Instagram at Ashley B Robinson. 923 00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:19.320 Follow me on Twitter and Instagram at job and that's 924 00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:22.400 jaw ii in coming over to the patroon if you 925 00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:25.199 have some extra stuff and now it's time for. 926 00:49:26.440 --> 00:49:27.199 Stick around. 927 00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:33.079 So Ashley, So Jason, I want to ask you, because 928 00:49:33.079 --> 00:49:34.599 I don't think this is going to ever happen in 929 00:49:34.599 --> 00:49:41.239 the movie. Sure, will we ever see Electric Blue Superman 930

00:49:42.559 --> 00:49:47.039 in a cartoon? Because to this point, as far as 931 00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:51.440 I know, we have not and none of the DC 932 00:49:51.519 --> 00:49:57.559 animated movies have we seen Electric Superman? Uh? Will we yes? 933 00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:01.039 Will we may ye? Got to think about it's been 934 00:50:01.079 --> 00:50:05.920 twenty years, Pope, more than twenty years has not happened once? 935 00:50:06.039 --> 00:50:06.519 Can I tell you? 936 00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:09.519 Or I think a good place would be and a 937 00:50:09.559 --> 00:50:13.519 good story might be the video games? Uh, DC League 938 00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:17.599 of Superpets two because we dealt in the first movie 939 00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:23.360 with separation anxiety with Crypto and Superman. Minor spoiler what 940 00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:26.920 if he turned blue? Superman turned blue and then Crypto 941 00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:29.079 had to learn like what happens when your fringe change? 942 00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:32.480 Interesting? He doesn't smell right. I have a feeling that 943 00:50:32.559 --> 00:50:34.599 if they for that sequel, they're gonna do kid. I 944 00:50:34.599 --> 00:50:37.440 have a feeling we're not getting a sequel. Oh that's true. 945 00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:40.880 Yeah, you're given recent circumstances. 946 00:50:41.320 --> 00:50:45.199 Earn that. But also Trulie Devistada, there should be a sequel. Yeah, 947 00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:47.280 I would really. 948 00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:50.679 I think animation is the place where you can take 949 00:50:50.719 --> 00:50:52.920 wilder swings like that. I think that's what we love 950 00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:56.000 about something like Harley Quinn the animated series, and I 951 00:50:56.079 --> 00:50:59.079 would love to see I think I would love to see. 952 00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:01.159 This in the animated movies. I think I know it 953 00:51:01.159 --> 00:51:04.719 wouldn't sell, but I think a movie called Superman Blue 954 00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:09.000 would be a lot of fun. And I think the 955 00:51:09.159 --> 00:51:12.400 movie could play in a lot of interesting territory that 956 00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:15.519 the storyline's never got to and him doing I think 957 00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:18.880 it would be a really fun way. And if I 958 00:51:18.960 --> 00:51:22.559 were to put this out there and please DC Animated 959 00:51:22.679 --> 00:51:25.159 Movies hire mean in time, I would pitch it as 960 00:51:25.599 --> 00:51:29.239 that he has Lois and he has John, and so 961 00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:31.559 his powers turn when he has John, and so it's 962 00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:35.719 like John having to help his dad learn his powers. 963 00:51:35.719 --> 00:51:40.960 Again that's cute. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And so the the 964 00:51:41.079 --> 00:51:43.239 lot of the story is like John being like, well, 965 00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:46.119 I have to carry the slack because like Dad cannot 966 00:51:46.159 --> 00:51:47.119 control his powers. 967 00:51:47.199 --> 00:51:48.840 I also think it would be like a fun one 968 00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:49.840 off that you could do. It could be in a 969 00:51:49.880 --> 00:51:55.559 different animation style. I'm surprised, honestly that there isn't a 970 00:51:55.639 --> 00:51:56.719 d animated. 971 00:51:56.320 --> 00:52:00.079 It wasn't even referenced than Justice League. Yeah, but to me, 972 00:52:00.199 --> 00:52:02.079 it kind of feels like Bruce tim was probably like, oh, 973 00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:04.800 that's stupid, But I totally understand. But I think this 974 00:52:04.880 --> 00:52:08.320 storyline is not remembered fondly. I remember it fondly, but 975 00:52:08.360 --> 00:52:11.320 I remember it fondly for I think fans like this story. 976 00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:15.000 I think fans like the idea of Superman Blue. I 977 00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:17.119 don't think they like the storyline, because even I will 978 00:52:17.119 --> 00:52:19.400 agree that the storyline is not that great. It's more 979 00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:23.480 the look and the idea. Again, I love the storyline 980 00:52:23.480 --> 00:52:25.679 for the untapped potential, and that's why I would love 981 00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:29.840 to see something do something with it later. Like again, 982 00:52:29.880 --> 00:52:31.320 it would be like if they ever made a Superman 983 00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:33.360 video game, I would be like, there should be a 984 00:52:33.440 --> 00:52:35.639 level where he turns electric for one level. I mean, 985 00:52:35.679 --> 00:52:36.920 here's also like a hot take. 986 00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:39.519 If you wanted somebody as Superman and they only wanted 987 00:52:39.519 --> 00:52:41.800 to do one movie as Superman, this would be a 988 00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:42.840 really great one off. 989 00:52:43.239 --> 00:52:43.559 Sure. 990 00:52:44.119 --> 00:52:47.679 Yeah, because that suit's gonna look fantastic in live action. 991 00:52:47.719 --> 00:52:50.440 So good, especially low like an led, especially if you 992 00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:52.679 can enhance it with the right way with V effects, 993 00:52:52.760 --> 00:52:54.719 like it would be like next level cool. 994 00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:56.840 Yeah, it would be next lilevel cool. So there you go. 995 00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:05.039 There is one storyline that changed comics and superheroes more 996 00:53:05.119 --> 00:53:07.800 than any other, and this year it is celebrating its 997 00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:13.039 thirtieth anniversary. It is time to discuss the death of Superman. 998 00:53:13.159 --> 00:53:17.239 Because your Geek History Lesson is now in session. Hello 999 00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:21.719 and welcome to Geek History Lesson. I'm Jason. My cape 1000 00:53:21.719 --> 00:53:24.559 is gonna fly on a stick Inman. I'm Ashay Victoria Robinson. 1001 00:53:24.599 --> 00:53:27.320 Welcome to your Mind University because you have

stumbled onto 1002 00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:30.519 the podcast where we take one character construct or incredibly 1003 00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:33.280 important event in art culture and teach you everything you 1004 00:53:33.320 --> 00:53:34.800 need to know about it in about an hour. 1005 00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:37.639 And this week, I guess we're doing something kind of 1006 00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:40.079 a little different, I mean sorta. 1007 00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:40.559 Yes. 1008 00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:43.159 No, well, we're talking about a whole storyline, but it's 1009 00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:45.639 not a book club. Yeah, we're talking about the death 1010 00:53:45.800 --> 00:53:51.039 of Superman's boilers. I mean it's in the title, but 1011 00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:53.239 that is fair. There is Okay, there is. There is 1012 00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:57.039 a spoiler warning. Superman dies for a thirty year old 1013 00:53:57.119 --> 00:54:01.599 comic story thirty years ago. Got Betta. He's mining gul 1014 00:54:01.719 --> 00:54:06.639 Betta goal. Okay, bath, there is the deat someone in 1015 00:54:06.679 --> 00:54:09.360 England is so bad right now. I think I was 1016 00:54:09.360 --> 00:54:10.840 pulling out from a movie. I can't remember which one, 1017 00:54:10.840 --> 00:54:13.559 but there you go. The death of Superman's storyline is, 1018 00:54:13.639 --> 00:54:17.719 of course, one of DC comics most iconic tales. It 1019 00:54:18.159 --> 00:54:22.239 basically forever changed the way that death operates, I would say, 1020 00:54:22.599 --> 00:54:26.119 not only in superhero comic books, but in television and 1021 00:54:26.239 --> 00:54:30.239 in movies. It was published between nineteen ninety two and 1022 00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:33.840 nineteen ninety three, and basically, if you've never read the storyline, 1023 00:54:33.920 --> 00:54:35.199 this is going to be an interesting We're going to 1024 00:54:35.320 --> 00:54:39.960 go through a lot of the publication history about why 1025 00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:45.039 they decided to kill off. They're basically most famousest of 1026 00:54:45.039 --> 00:54:47.760 a superheroes in nineteen ninety two, and it's a really 1027 00:54:47.920 --> 00:54:51.199 fascinating storyline. So the Deaes Superman storyline we're gonna talk 1028 00:54:51.199 --> 00:54:54.880 about today, of course, started with Superman's fatal battle with Doomsday, 1029 00:54:55.440 --> 00:54:59.159 which is called the Doomsday storyline, the superhero community's response 1030 00:54:59.360 --> 00:55:02.239 to Superman's death, which is called Funeral for a Friend, 1031 00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:06.400 the emergence of four characters claiming to be Superman, which 1032 00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:09.719 was Rain of the Superman, and then eventually it led 1033 00:55:09.760 --> 00:55:13.679 to the return of Superman. And and this is this 1034 00:55:13.760 --> 00:55:16.159 is another thing why I wanted to celebrate this, because 1035 00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:20.159 this storyline is so unique, and it's so unique in 1036 00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:23.360 so many different ways because it was told across four 1037 00:55:23.960 --> 00:55:28.119 different monthly Superman titles. Yeah, do you hate crossovers? You 1038 00:55:28.119 --> 00:55:29.519 can thank this event. Yes. 1039 00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:33.519 Actually, this, this event, in my opinion, exemplifies crossovers done 1040 00:55:33.519 --> 00:55:33.840 really well. 1041 00:55:33.960 --> 00:55:37.159 Yes. And you know, it featured the talents of some 1042 00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:41.280 amazing people like former GHL guest Dan Jurgen's Icon, Louise Simonson, 1043 00:55:41.360 --> 00:55:45.840 Roger Stern, Jerry Ordway, Carl Kesselkon, Tom Grummitt Icon, John 1044 00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:48.840 Bogdanovac icon I call him John bog Okay, you know 1045 00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:51.599 Jackson geis bread beating, breeding and more. 1046 00:55:51.800 --> 00:55:53.960 Everyone who worked on this is like incredibly important in 1047 00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:55.039 comics history. 1048 00:55:55.199 --> 00:55:58.159 Now there, I'm gonna say it. They're all legends. Yeah, 1049 00:55:58.199 --> 00:56:00.679 they are all legends at the top of their game. 1050 00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:02.000 They were at the top of their game in nineteen 1051 00:56:02.039 --> 00:56:05.519 eighty two. They're at the top of their game still. Yeah, 1052 00:56:05.719 --> 00:56:07.239 this is gonna be a fun episode again, full of 1053 00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:10.480 discussions in info and don't forget. We also are gonna 1054 00:56:10.480 --> 00:56:13.519 have an interesting discussion. We have comic creator Charlie Stickney. 1055 00:56:13.559 --> 00:56:14.880 He's going to be joining us to give us some 1056 00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:17.360 comic fan and also he was a comic book publisher 1057 00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:19.280 at one time, so he's gonna be giving this that 1058 00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:23.519 perspective on the storyline later on. So let's get to 1059 00:56:23.639 --> 00:56:28.039 this ten cent origin of the death of Superman. Yes, 1060 00:56:28.280 --> 00:56:29.719 what's the tenthent Originationally, thank you. 1061 00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:31.960 That's the first part of the podcast where we teach 1062 00:56:31.960 --> 00:56:33.719 you pretty good for I didn't realize I had to 1063 00:56:33.719 --> 00:56:36.639 set you up. I'm sorry you do every time where 1064 00:56:36.679 --> 00:56:39.119 Professor Jason is going to tell you all of the basics, 1065 00:56:39.159 --> 00:56:41.920 who's its, whatscalore? In case you go to a dope 1066 00:56:41.960 --> 00:56:45.280 DC Comics themed cocktail party and some nice person is like, Hey, 1067 00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:47.000 what was the deal with the death of Superman? 1068 00:56:47.440 --> 00:56:50.559 So The Death Superman is a DC Comics crossover story 1069 00:56:50.559 --> 00:56:54.920 event featured in DC Comics Superman

related publications. It was 1070 00:56:55.119 --> 00:56:58.000 edited by Mike Carlin. It was written by Dan Jurgens, 1071 00:56:58.079 --> 00:57:01.320 Roger Stern, Louis Simons, and Jerry word Way in Carl Kessel. 1072 00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:04.880 It began in December of nineteen ninety two and it 1073 00:57:05.039 --> 00:57:09.119 lasted until October of nineteen ninety three. Now, wow, not 1074 00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:13.159 just the death, it includes the other storyline It was 1075 00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:17.639 published in, specifically these titles Superman Action Comics, The Adventures 1076 00:57:17.639 --> 00:57:20.800 of Superman, Superman, The Man of Steel, Justice League of America, 1077 00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:23.840 and Green Lantern. Now let's get to the met cute. 1078 00:57:23.920 --> 00:57:25.679 That is the second part of the podcast, where we 1079 00:57:25.719 --> 00:57:27.079 are going to tell you the first time we meet 1080 00:57:27.079 --> 00:57:29.800 did the story and how cute it was. Ashley, where 1081 00:57:29.840 --> 00:57:33.039 did you first read or hear of the death of Superman? 1082 00:57:33.199 --> 00:57:36.760 I mean, who knows, honestly, because I was a baby 1083 00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:40.199 when this happened. So for me, this has always been 1084 00:57:40.239 --> 00:57:43.000 something that I've known has happened in the pop culture sphere. 1085 00:57:43.199 --> 00:57:45.039 When did you first read it? I guess then is 1086 00:57:45.079 --> 00:57:45.760 the question. 1087 00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:52.199 After geek History listen started, Oh boy, maybe twenty fifteen 1088 00:57:52.280 --> 00:57:57.239 or twenty sixteen, kind of in that Oh I've never 1089 00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:00.000 read this. I know this is important. I should check 1090 00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:03.599 get out and it's awesome. I'd seen about one hundred 1091 00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:05.719 million copies of it before then, because when you work 1092 00:58:05.719 --> 00:58:07.280 in comic book retail, you got a lot of people 1093 00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:09.719 coming in with the poly bag thinking that that issue 1094 00:58:09.760 --> 00:58:10.519 is worth a lot of money. 1095 00:58:10.559 --> 00:58:13.239 Which specific issue is that that's the one where he dies, 1096 00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:16.079 which the number which is whatever is that? I have 1097 00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:20.639 no idea. Oh boy, okay, Superman number seventy five. I like, 1098 00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:25.119 we can't. We can't assume then our listeners. 1099 00:58:23.719 --> 00:58:25.480 When people bring it and brought it to me, it 1100 00:58:25.480 --> 00:58:27.599 was always in the black poly bag, So I literally 1101 00:58:27.679 --> 00:58:28.239 had no idea. 1102 00:58:28.280 --> 00:58:33.239 I apologize. There was like three I believe there were 1103 00:58:33.400 --> 00:58:36.159 three different of the specific issue that Superman died, which 1104 00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:38.559 is

Superman seventy five. Yeah, I believe there were three 1105 00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:42.960 specific editions. There was the normal just comic book newstand 1106 00:58:43.039 --> 00:58:46.480 version where it's his cape fluttering the wind. It's all 1107 00:58:46.519 --> 00:58:50.920 the trades now very famous iconic image there is the image. 1108 00:58:50.960 --> 00:58:52.920 There's the black poly bag. It was a white poly 1109 00:58:53.000 --> 00:58:55.519 bag as well. There's it's it was called the platinum 1110 00:58:55.559 --> 00:58:59.320 poly bag. It was and when you open that one up, 1111 00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:02.639 it was it had a platinum silver cover. The black 1112 00:59:02.679 --> 00:59:06.400 poly bag one apparently came with the Superman armband. You 1113 00:59:06.599 --> 00:59:09.079 wear the armband like all the superheroes going to Superman's funeral. 1114 00:59:10.119 --> 00:59:12.159 So yeah, it was so popular they printed them in 1115 00:59:12.199 --> 00:59:14.800 such high demand, which is why they're not They're not 1116 00:59:14.880 --> 00:59:16.000 worth anything anymore. 1117 00:59:18.119 --> 00:59:22.039 Better off spending your money on the collection. So yeah, 1118 00:59:22.119 --> 00:59:24.760 where did you first meet? And cute? I mean, I'm 1119 00:59:24.760 --> 00:59:27.480 assuming you read this lot. I did not read this live. 1120 00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:30.840 I read this after I read this. I've told the storyline, 1121 00:59:31.239 --> 00:59:36.880 the story on GHL. Before this trade paperback of Death 1122 00:59:36.880 --> 00:59:40.039 of Superman I bought in a gas station in Erie, Kansas. 1123 00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:42.519 Had no idea. I'd heard about the storyline. I'd heard 1124 00:59:42.519 --> 00:59:45.079 about on the news like this made the news like 1125 00:59:45.320 --> 00:59:48.039 regular people news, not like comic book. But I didn't 1126 00:59:48.079 --> 00:59:51.679 read the storyline until I think maybe the next year. 1127 00:59:52.280 --> 00:59:55.119 After the storyline, but I had the trade of Death 1128 00:59:55.119 --> 00:59:57.719 of Superman and it ends with of course where he dies. 1129 00:59:57.800 --> 01:00:08.880 Spoilers climax, and you know, it was really my introduction 1130 01:00:08.960 --> 01:00:11.639 into the DC universe. It made me be like, oh wow, 1131 01:00:11.679 --> 01:00:14.760 there's Batman, there's Green Lannard, there are always people here. 1132 01:00:15.320 --> 01:00:17.639 I still have that very first straight I mean, this 1133 01:00:17.840 --> 01:00:21.280 is the storyline that is responsible, I would say for 1134 01:00:21.360 --> 01:00:25.400 me reading any kind of comics in a large scale facility, 1135 01:00:25.719 --> 01:00:28.440 facility at play capacity capacity. Thank you so much. 1136 01:00:28.840 --> 01:00:31.079 And you have that version signed by Dandragrins, which we 1137 01:00:31.079 --> 01:00:33.280 told on I don't know if I don't know if 1138 01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:34.239 it was that episode or the. 1139 01:00:34.199 --> 01:00:36.400 Extrap but we did tell that story. Yeah, yeah, all right, 1140 01:00:36.440 --> 01:00:39.880 So we're gonna dive deep into the death of Superman 1141 01:00:40.039 --> 01:00:42.360 and we're gonna have a great conversation. And if you 1142 01:00:42.480 --> 01:00:45.679 like this conversation and you need more, this week's Geek 1143 01:00:45.719 --> 01:00:49.119 History Lesson extra episode on Patreon is gonna be comic 1144 01:00:49.199 --> 01:00:52.599 deaths that did and did not work, plus comic talk 1145 01:00:52.639 --> 01:00:55.719 with the creator Charlie Stickney, our guest. So head on 1146 01:00:55.760 --> 01:00:59.280 over to patreon dot com slash jawin that's jaw ii 1147 01:00:59.480 --> 01:01:02.239 in and joined to get more podcasts like that and 1148 01:01:02.480 --> 01:01:05.239 our Just League podcast, which is Jason and Jeremy John 1149 01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:08.559 about Just League, where we review every episode of Justice 1150 01:01:08.599 --> 01:01:11.480 League the animated series. You're also going to get four 1151 01:01:11.559 --> 01:01:14.920 bonus episodes of JHL Extra Marvel Club, two episodes of 1152 01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:17.920 Justice Pod month. There's a lot of extra bonus episodes 1153 01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:21.280 over there, and add free episodes of Geeksher Last, So 1154 01:01:21.320 --> 01:01:23.039 head on over there. Thank you to all our super 1155 01:01:23.039 --> 01:01:26.639 friends that support us each and every month at patreon 1156 01:01:26.719 --> 01:01:29.480 dot com slash showIn We love you all right, So 1157 01:01:29.679 --> 01:01:33.800 let's get behind the scenes of the Death of Superman. 1158 01:01:34.280 --> 01:01:40.440 So Superman had been rebooted in nineteen eighty six, back 1159 01:01:40.480 --> 01:01:44.599 to Square one. Clark Kenton supporting cast was brought to 1160 01:01:44.840 --> 01:01:48.440 be in a nineteen eighties worldview because of a major 1161 01:01:48.480 --> 01:01:52.239 event called Crisis on Infinite Earth's usually we wait a 1162 01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:54.400 while until we get to this. Ashley, would you like 1163 01:01:54.440 --> 01:01:56.639 to explain Christ and If and Earth to somebody in 1164 01:01:56.639 --> 01:01:58.280 case this is their very first episode. 1165 01:01:58.480 --> 01:01:59.800 Well, you know, i'd really encourage you to go back 1166 01:01:59.800 --> 01:02:02.159 and into our six part series Crisis Club, which you 1167 01:02:02.159 --> 01:02:05.800 can find and protracted versions in this field. Actually Crisis 1168 01:02:05.800 --> 01:02:07.920 on Infinite Arts, which if you haven't read, like Death 1169 01:02:07.920 --> 01:02:10.280 of Superman is like required reading. 1170 01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:12.639 Yeah, but not until you have some comic books. Er yourum, 1171 01:02:12.679 --> 01:02:13.679 don't make this your first. 1172 01:02:13.559 --> 01:02:15.000

No, But I mean, if you've been a comic book 1173 01:02:15.039 --> 01:02:17.559 fan and you've been sleeping on Crisis, these reread Crisis. 1174 01:02:18.199 --> 01:02:21.239 There were so many multi verses, and DC was like, oh, 1175 01:02:21.239 --> 01:02:24.800 there's so many multiverses. So then the Anti monitor ate them, 1176 01:02:24.840 --> 01:02:27.320 and then he pooped out one universe and everybody got 1177 01:02:27.400 --> 01:02:30.119 a reboot except Batman, who got a real soft reboot. 1178 01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:32.599 Yes, and some other characters too, But I'm not sorry, 1179 01:02:32.599 --> 01:02:35.079 but Superman got a full, pretty pretty hard readbo into. 1180 01:02:35.480 --> 01:02:39.159 I'm going I'm going to say it probably but prior 1181 01:02:39.199 --> 01:02:41.920 to the birth of John Kent my favorite version of 1182 01:02:42.199 --> 01:02:44.000 Superman and co I'm going. 1183 01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:47.840 To say that this is probably my favorite era of Superman. Yeah. So, 1184 01:02:47.880 --> 01:02:50.559 now Lois and Clark were restored to newspaper reporters for 1185 01:02:50.639 --> 01:02:53.039 the Daily Planet because they Clark Kent had been a 1186 01:02:53.039 --> 01:02:56.199 television reporter before this. Lex Luthor was transformed from a 1187 01:02:56.239 --> 01:02:59.719 mad scientist of delusions of world conquest into a sort 1188 01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:06.760 of very famous, very overweight businessman with delusions of gold, 1189 01:03:06.800 --> 01:03:11.199 toilets and world conquest. Later creators would add the science 1190 01:03:11.239 --> 01:03:13.599 angle back to Lex Luthor, making it more believable, but 1191 01:03:13.719 --> 01:03:18.960 this had a very dramatic change, because you know, this 1192 01:03:19.119 --> 01:03:23.039 led into a brand new Superman basically under the control 1193 01:03:23.119 --> 01:03:25.639 of writer artist John Byrne, who's a very famous X 1194 01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:28.840 Man and Fantastic Four artist. And now the time we 1195 01:03:28.920 --> 01:03:33.519 hit the early nineties, Superman started not selling. Now, well, 1196 01:03:34.360 --> 01:03:38.039 it basically kind of started losing its sales after John 1197 01:03:38.079 --> 01:03:42.639 Byrne departed because he'd successily like redefined Superman, and in 1198 01:03:42.679 --> 01:03:47.280 an effort to halt the slide of sales, editorial decided 1199 01:03:47.320 --> 01:03:51.320 to up the romance of Lois and Clark by making 1200 01:03:51.400 --> 01:03:54.639 them engaged. This was a good choice, yep. Lois Land 1201 01:03:54.639 --> 01:03:57.360 and Clark Kent became engaged in nineteen ninety one in 1202 01:03:57.519 --> 01:04:01.320 Superman issue fifty, but it would take another couple of 1203 01:04:01.320 --> 01:04:05.880 months before Clark could be truly honest with Lois and 1204 01:04:06.039 --> 01:04:08.880 reveal his secret identity to her. So he proposed as 1205 01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:11.800 Clark Kent, and then it took him a couple of 1206 01:04:11.800 --> 01:04:14.920 issues to be like, Oh, by the way, I'm Superman. 1207 01:04:15.400 --> 01:04:17.599 And that issue where that happens is the very famous 1208 01:04:17.599 --> 01:04:20.239 cover where it's Lois looking right at the camera and 1209 01:04:20.599 --> 01:04:22.920 she's holding Clark Kent's glasses and the glasses of the 1210 01:04:22.960 --> 01:04:26.760 reflection of the Superman s Shields very iconic cover. With 1211 01:04:26.880 --> 01:04:32.719 this change, comic status quo had truly changed. Forever marriage 1212 01:04:32.760 --> 01:04:35.920 was on was on the books, and the comic had 1213 01:04:35.960 --> 01:04:39.519 planned for the wedding to happen in nineteen ninety three. 1214 01:04:40.159 --> 01:04:43.639 Now this happened in the past, Ashley. But I want 1215 01:04:43.639 --> 01:04:46.840 to ask you, at the point that we are talking 1216 01:04:46.880 --> 01:04:52.320 about current day, Yes, do you think it's possible to 1217 01:04:52.440 --> 01:04:55.639 do a non married Superman and Lois anymore? Do you 1218 01:04:55.719 --> 01:04:59.519 think that Superman and Lois being married is just such 1219 01:04:59.559 --> 01:05:02.280 in the zy guys and such a pop culture that 1220 01:05:03.119 --> 01:05:04.599 you know, I mean, think about we have a TV 1221 01:05:04.679 --> 01:05:07.400 show called Superman Alois where a married Superman Alis, Superman 1222 01:05:07.440 --> 01:05:09.079 a Lois are married in the comic books, I got 1223 01:05:09.079 --> 01:05:11.239 married in the DC. They got married in the DC. 1224 01:05:11.440 --> 01:05:14.360 You didn't, well, he proposed to her. Oh that's true, 1225 01:05:14.440 --> 01:05:18.400 that's true, super Ransom are I mean, there was a 1226 01:05:18.719 --> 01:05:21.760 period very recently actually where Superman was single and stuff 1227 01:05:21.800 --> 01:05:23.320 like that. But do you think like we are just 1228 01:05:23.920 --> 01:05:26.559 in this point of like Dick Grayson always being night 1229 01:05:26.559 --> 01:05:29.199 Wing now and we're about to cross the period where 1230 01:05:29.199 --> 01:05:31.119 Dick Grayson will have been night Wing just as long 1231 01:05:31.119 --> 01:05:35.480 as he's been Robbin. It'll happen next year, actually, do 1232 01:05:35.519 --> 01:05:36.679 we think? Do you think we're at the point in 1233 01:05:36.679 --> 01:05:39.920 a return where like, hey, it's Superman and Lois are married. 1234 01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:41.320 That's just the game, I hope. 1235 01:05:41.360 --> 01:05:44.119 So I feel the very same way about Peter Parker 1236 01:05:44.159 --> 01:05:48.079 and Mary Jane Watson. I think it's way more interesting 1237 01:05:48.159 --> 01:05:51.239 to explore that side of their personas and their personalities 1238 01:05:51.239 --> 01:05:53.719 because we've spent so much time doing the other thing, 1239 01:05:54.599 --> 01:05:57.719 and because comic

books is the perpetual second act. I 1240 01:05:57.760 --> 01:06:00.960 think it appeals to me the idea that these characters 1241 01:06:01.000 --> 01:06:03.079 can kind of move on. It's what I find satisfying 1242 01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:05.840 about Dick Grayson as a character is that he's fully 1243 01:06:05.880 --> 01:06:08.639 moved on from the Robin identity. If they ever did 1244 01:06:09.960 --> 01:06:12.960 another hard To reboot where like Dick went back to 1245 01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:15.519 being Robin and Lois didn't know who Superman was, like, 1246 01:06:15.559 --> 01:06:20.320 I think it would feel very strange. I hadn't considered, 1247 01:06:20.360 --> 01:06:22.800 as you put it out, the implications in television and film, 1248 01:06:22.840 --> 01:06:25.679 but I think that I think if it's not cemented 1249 01:06:25.719 --> 01:06:28.239 in pop culture and in sort of the cultural psychist, 1250 01:06:28.239 --> 01:06:31.239 it's certainly on its way. And obviously the. 1251 01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:32.920 The also the emergence of John Kens. I was going 1252 01:06:32.960 --> 01:06:33.960 to say, the. 1253 01:06:33.920 --> 01:06:37.280 Addition of John Kent to the larger canon is certainly 1254 01:06:37.280 --> 01:06:39.239 going to cement. I mean, you could have them get divorced, 1255 01:06:39.320 --> 01:06:43.000 but I hope not. I don't They're going to keep 1256 01:06:43.039 --> 01:06:46.440 Batman unmarried. Excuse me, so I hope you know, I 1257 01:06:46.440 --> 01:06:49.360 don't know if saying a Superman divorced story. Superman, Look, 1258 01:06:49.559 --> 01:06:51.679 being divorced doesn't make you bad person. This is not 1259 01:06:51.800 --> 01:06:52.960 I just want to clear that up for this is 1260 01:06:52.960 --> 01:06:54.760 not a value. I don't want to be divorced. But Superman 1261 01:06:54.880 --> 01:06:57.599 is the big blue boy scout. He is the broad 1262 01:06:57.719 --> 01:07:05.920 strokes and Potatoes Americana ideal, and that is, you know, 1263 01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:08.920 tied up in certain cultural and religious expectations, and one 1264 01:07:08.960 --> 01:07:10.599 of them is that you stayed married. So I don't 1265 01:07:10.599 --> 01:07:13.039 see Superman getting divorced. But I mean, in the realm 1266 01:07:13.079 --> 01:07:16.119 of all things possible, it could happen. 1267 01:07:16.159 --> 01:07:17.280 I hope he stays married. 1268 01:07:17.400 --> 01:07:22.480 I love married family Man, Superman, I really do well. 1269 01:07:22.519 --> 01:07:25.320 In nineteen eighty nine, Time Warner turned their attention to 1270 01:07:25.440 --> 01:07:30.400 DC Comics and began promoting Batman and Superman aggressively. Batman 1271 01:07:30.440 --> 01:07:33.559 got a movie series in an animated series. Superman got 1272 01:07:33.559 --> 01:07:36.320 a pair of television shows from nineteen eighty eight to 1273 01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:39.760 nineteen ninety two. He had the Superboy television show, which 1274

01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:43.480 was the adventures of a teenaged Clark Kent, and then 1275 01:07:44.239 --> 01:07:48.519 came nineteen ninety threes Lois and Clark, The New Adventures 1276 01:07:48.559 --> 01:07:51.679 of Superman The New Adventures of Old Christine starring Terry 1277 01:07:51.719 --> 01:07:55.000 Hatcher and Dean Kin, which aired on Sundays on ABC. 1278 01:07:55.079 --> 01:07:58.000 I specifically remember it watching that on Sundays. This focused 1279 01:07:58.039 --> 01:08:00.840 on the adventures of adult Clark Kent and his rival 1280 01:08:00.880 --> 01:08:04.440 slash love interest Lois Lane, and Superman was actually pushed 1281 01:08:04.440 --> 01:08:06.239 to the back burner as a character also because they 1282 01:08:06.239 --> 01:08:08.800 couldn't afford the special effects. This was done to save 1283 01:08:08.920 --> 01:08:13.119 on budget and to make when Superman showed up more impressive. 1284 01:08:13.280 --> 01:08:16.079 It actually was a huge success of a television show. 1285 01:08:16.119 --> 01:08:19.159 Can't believe they let Terry Hatcher play Superman. She did 1286 01:08:19.199 --> 01:08:22.359 a great job. Yes, she's amazing. Nothing else eas to 1287 01:08:22.399 --> 01:08:25.600 be said about that cast. Because of the success of 1288 01:08:25.680 --> 01:08:28.920 the television show, this actually made Time Warner look more 1289 01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:30.680 positively on Superman. 1290 01:08:30.880 --> 01:08:34.640 And that show is beloved for people who watched it 1291 01:08:34.680 --> 01:08:36.680 at the time. There is a nostalgia and a love 1292 01:08:36.720 --> 01:08:37.479 for that series. 1293 01:08:37.600 --> 01:08:40.520 I mean, I watched that show, or I watched most 1294 01:08:40.520 --> 01:08:44.399 of it live. It does not hold up, but I 1295 01:08:44.520 --> 01:08:46.399 remember it fondly just for the reason that it was 1296 01:08:46.439 --> 01:08:51.319 the only super Hero live action show at the time. 1297 01:08:51.399 --> 01:08:54.600 It was literally all we had. Yeah, so it was 1298 01:08:54.680 --> 01:08:56.159 good for what it was. I'm glad it was a 1299 01:08:56.199 --> 01:08:58.079 fun Sunday night. I'll just say that. Look, and there's a. 1300 01:08:58.000 --> 01:09:01.520 Direct line between that show with all of its you know, 1301 01:09:01.960 --> 01:09:04.800 problems that we would put on it now, and Smallville 1302 01:09:04.920 --> 01:09:06.840 and Superman and low s Lane. 1303 01:09:07.359 --> 01:09:11.600 So Superman's comic line during this drastically expanded. The long 1304 01:09:11.640 --> 01:09:14.600 running sell titled Superman was now retitled Adventures of Superman. 1305 01:09:14.760 --> 01:09:17.000 There was action comics, there was The Man of Steel, 1306 01:09:17.079 --> 01:09:19.800 and they had a newly launched Superman which would cover 1307 01:09:19.840 --> 01:09:22.479 the Life and times of Clark Kent. This made for 1308 01:09:22.560 --> 01:09:27.520 basically

one Superman comic being released a week. That's a 1309 01:09:27.600 --> 01:09:29.760 great the Life and Times of Clark Kent. That's a 1310 01:09:29.800 --> 01:09:32.880 great title. Yeah. Now, the plotlines would intersect between issues 1311 01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:35.680 of the run and DC would eventually event what is 1312 01:09:35.720 --> 01:09:38.279 called the cover triangle for Superman. This would be a 1313 01:09:38.319 --> 01:09:43.960 little Triangle era. This is coluiquily known I miss pronounced 1314 01:09:44.039 --> 01:09:47.239 so low quill. Thank you, Ashley as the Triangle era, 1315 01:09:47.439 --> 01:09:49.199 and you'll see it as there. You'll find some Superman 1316 01:09:49.239 --> 01:09:51.520 comics that have a triangle on the cover and I'll 1317 01:09:51.520 --> 01:09:54.239 say like nineteen ninety three one Little Yellow Trent, nineteen 1318 01:09:54.279 --> 01:09:58.119 ninety four two. Yeah, it actually makes organizing your comics 1319 01:09:58.239 --> 01:10:03.560 really So this I'm gonna just say the trianglera is 1320 01:10:04.399 --> 01:10:06.199 it's my favor ere a Superman comics. I'm just saying 1321 01:10:06.199 --> 01:10:08.279 that right now. So Time Warner at this time was 1322 01:10:08.319 --> 01:10:11.359 all about brand synergy because that's what these corporations want 1323 01:10:11.359 --> 01:10:13.479 to do. So with a brand new show about Lois 1324 01:10:13.479 --> 01:10:17.239 and Clark being romantically flirty and not married, the higher 1325 01:10:17.319 --> 01:10:21.560 ups figured people would get confused when they weren't married 1326 01:10:21.600 --> 01:10:24.920 in the show, but they were married in the comics. 1327 01:10:25.800 --> 01:10:29.840 So eventually Lois and Clark The Adventures of Superman had 1328 01:10:29.880 --> 01:10:34.079 Superman proposed to Lois Lane. Now with Superman was now 1329 01:10:34.119 --> 01:10:38.600 engaged to Lois Lane in the show and the comics, 1330 01:10:38.840 --> 01:10:41.399 but the comics and the TV show were now competing 1331 01:10:41.920 --> 01:10:44.399 on who would get to walk Lewis and Clark down 1332 01:10:44.439 --> 01:10:48.159 the aisle first. I kind of love that yeah, So 1333 01:10:48.439 --> 01:10:52.239 Superman group editor Mike Carlin and DC president Janet Kahn 1334 01:10:52.520 --> 01:10:57.479 decided that the highly anticipated wedding should take place in 1335 01:10:57.520 --> 01:11:02.319 the show. First, you got the comics. With the barest 1336 01:11:02.399 --> 01:11:05.359 of Google searches. You can find the full wedding clip 1337 01:11:06.239 --> 01:11:09.079 on the U two's fun fact they get married twice 1338 01:11:09.079 --> 01:11:11.319 in the show, do they really? Because the first time, 1339 01:11:11.680 --> 01:11:19.600 spoilers Clark marys a faux Lois or right, it is 1340 01:11:19.640 --> 01:11:22.159 not actually the real Lowest Lane. She's been kidnapping take 1341 01:11:22.199 --> 01:11:24.680 off somewhere, and so they didn't do the real wedding. 1342 01:11:24.720 --> 01:11:26.560 I think they like in the next season. Is she 1343 01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:29.840 a luthor? I don't remember, Ashley, I don't know. If 1344 01:11:29.840 --> 01:11:31.479 you want to go watch Lowis and Clark The Adventures 1345 01:11:31.479 --> 01:11:34.119 of Superman, it's all HBO Max Have Fun. Were not 1346 01:11:34.119 --> 01:11:38.039 sponsored by HBO Max L So the postponed wedding in 1347 01:11:38.039 --> 01:11:39.720 the comics between Clark Kent and Lewis Lane had to 1348 01:11:39.760 --> 01:11:43.159 be replaced with something else, and the writing team at 1349 01:11:43.199 --> 01:11:47.159 the time was kind of stumped because the wedding was 1350 01:11:47.199 --> 01:11:48.800 supposed to take up and all the honeymoon and all 1351 01:11:48.800 --> 01:11:50.479 that stuff was supposed to have a year's worth of 1352 01:11:50.560 --> 01:11:52.359 stories and now they had to throw it all out 1353 01:11:52.359 --> 01:11:55.560 in the trash. So during the annual Superman summit where 1354 01:11:55.560 --> 01:11:57.920 the writers would all meet to come up with story ideas, 1355 01:11:58.239 --> 01:12:02.000 apparently this is a legendary story that every single year 1356 01:12:02.039 --> 01:12:05.039 when they would get stuck, Jerry Ordway would just yell out, 1357 01:12:05.399 --> 01:12:08.640 we should kill Superman. It's also literally the opposite of 1358 01:12:08.680 --> 01:12:11.720 a wedding in a lot of ways. But apparently he'd 1359 01:12:11.760 --> 01:12:12.479 been saying this for. 1360 01:12:12.439 --> 01:12:14.199 Like the last three or four years. You're aware of 1361 01:12:14.199 --> 01:12:16.119 the stories, Yeah, as an apocryphal or not. 1362 01:12:16.399 --> 01:12:19.520 Yes, as a joke, And because of this year, and 1363 01:12:19.560 --> 01:12:21.279 because they were all like, oh, we just had to 1364 01:12:21.279 --> 01:12:24.680 throw out an entire year of planning Jerry Ordway throughout 1365 01:12:24.680 --> 01:12:29.479 the joke, Let's just kill them. And Louise Simonson actually said, 1366 01:12:30.239 --> 01:12:35.079 maybe that's not a bad idea. And so, according to interviews, 1367 01:12:35.119 --> 01:12:38.479 Louise Simonson writing Superman The Man of Steel, liked the idea. 1368 01:12:38.600 --> 01:12:41.880 She had worked on the death prone X Men franchise 1369 01:12:41.960 --> 01:12:44.359 was Chris Claremont, and she thought it would be a 1370 01:12:44.399 --> 01:12:46.960 great idea to tell a story about how much the 1371 01:12:47.000 --> 01:12:49.560 deceased character meant to all the other characters. In the 1372 01:12:49.560 --> 01:12:53.640 Sporting Cast editorial approved it. Jerry Ordway has later said 1373 01:12:53.640 --> 01:12:57.039 in interviews that he was actually speechless when the plans began, 1374 01:12:57.479 --> 01:13:00.880 when they're actually planning how to kill this guy. But 1375 01:13:01.039 --> 01:13:03.880 the original

idea was that Superman would die in Superman 1376 01:13:04.000 --> 01:13:06.680 seventy five and come back to life and adventures to 1377 01:13:06.720 --> 01:13:11.079 Superman number five hundred, keeping milestone issues on both ends. 1378 01:13:12.279 --> 01:13:18.279 And it all started with a certain character named Doomsday. Now, Ashley, 1379 01:13:18.439 --> 01:13:22.520 how would you describe the villain to Doomsday? Excuse me? 1380 01:13:22.520 --> 01:13:24.479 How would you describe How would you describe villains to Doomsday? 1381 01:13:24.479 --> 01:13:25.840 If you're talking to Doomsday and you have a dinner 1382 01:13:25.840 --> 01:13:28.000 with Doomsday? Okay, how would you describe a How would 1383 01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:32.199 you describe a villain Doomsday? So you know what you are? Rah, 1384 01:13:32.239 --> 01:13:34.840 that's a villain. Yeah, that's my dooms Day Price. Yeah, 1385 01:13:37.000 --> 01:13:38.640 that sounds like Tim Allen from From Home I Movement 1386 01:13:38.720 --> 01:13:43.359 fairly also a villain? Yeah, alsoin so, but how would 1387 01:13:43.399 --> 01:13:46.359 you describe Doomsday to somebody who's never read this storyline? 1388 01:13:46.399 --> 01:13:47.880 Are you asked me to describe him as a character 1389 01:13:47.960 --> 01:13:51.239 of visually? I don't care either or the question is 1390 01:13:51.279 --> 01:13:52.079 open to interpretation. 1391 01:13:52.239 --> 01:13:56.359 He looks like a big gray monster with bony spikes 1392 01:13:57.000 --> 01:14:00.640 that I guess according to his rage or the whim 1393 01:14:00.680 --> 01:14:04.520 of the artists, and the story can elongate as necessary. 1394 01:14:06.359 --> 01:14:12.239 He comes from space and he comes to Krypton. It 1395 01:14:12.239 --> 01:14:13.079 comes from Krypton. 1396 01:14:13.199 --> 01:14:19.119 He's He's Kryptonian, and uh, he's most famous for killing Superman. 1397 01:14:19.520 --> 01:14:22.560 What do you think about the choice to have a 1398 01:14:22.720 --> 01:14:28.279 brand new villain whose first appearance is this is the 1399 01:14:28.279 --> 01:14:33.359 death of Superman, kill Superman over like classic Superman villains 1400 01:14:33.399 --> 01:14:36.439 like Brainiac or Lex Luthor. I have kind of two 1401 01:14:36.439 --> 01:14:37.479 schools of thought on this. 1402 01:14:37.479 --> 01:14:40.760 This happens in every single comic book. Like ever, they 1403 01:14:40.800 --> 01:14:44.520 always introduce a new character. Sometimes they pretend to be 1404 01:14:44.560 --> 01:14:46.720 their friend, like if it's Godspeed in the Flash, and 1405 01:14:46.720 --> 01:14:48.800 then they wind up being like this is a very 1406 01:14:48.600 --> 01:14:52.479 tried and true trope. On the one hand, it does 1407 01:14:52.520 --> 01:14:57.680 feel a little convenient to suddenly introduce a villain who 1408 01:14:57.720 --> 01:15:01.560 is suddenly capable of murdering Superman, which is something that 1409 01:15:01.600 -->

01:15:02.760 he dodged for like fifty. 1410 01:15:02.600 --> 01:15:03.439 Years up to this point. 1411 01:15:04.159 --> 01:15:08.159 And on the other hand, if it was one of 1412 01:15:08.199 --> 01:15:13.039 his rogues gallery, then how come they didn't kill him 1413 01:15:13.479 --> 01:15:14.119 all along? 1414 01:15:14.279 --> 01:15:16.560 It would also it immediately. 1415 01:15:16.239 --> 01:15:18.560 Elevates one of those characters above all the rest of 1416 01:15:18.600 --> 01:15:19.279 the staples. 1417 01:15:19.279 --> 01:15:21.720 Well, I actually don't think it elevates. I think it 1418 01:15:22.359 --> 01:15:25.479 demotes because then that character, if you ever want to 1419 01:15:25.520 --> 01:15:27.520 tell a future story with that character, will always be 1420 01:15:27.520 --> 01:15:28.920 connected to this storyline. 1421 01:15:29.159 --> 01:15:32.920 But also, they killed Superman, so they're better than everybody else. 1422 01:15:32.960 --> 01:15:35.640 But the play on most of these characters is especially 1423 01:15:35.640 --> 01:15:38.159 like Lex Luthor somebody like that, is that you sometimes 1424 01:15:38.199 --> 01:15:41.039 get to play him as Superman's friend, I understand, and 1425 01:15:41.119 --> 01:15:44.159 if you have him kill Superman, that is gone, yeah. 1426 01:15:44.079 --> 01:15:47.359 One hundred percent. Or like Brainiac is like fascinated by 1427 01:15:47.399 --> 01:15:50.479 super it'd be like Magneto stabbing Professor Ax in the chest. 1428 01:15:50.720 --> 01:15:53.560 Like the fun of Magneto and Professor Axes that they 1429 01:15:53.560 --> 01:15:53.880 get to. 1430 01:15:53.800 --> 01:15:56.279 Help they sized the same. Yeah, they get to have 1431 01:15:56.319 --> 01:16:02.159 the tet To tet you know. Yeah, So I understand. 1432 01:16:02.159 --> 01:16:03.000 I ultimately think. 1433 01:16:02.840 --> 01:16:06.239 It's a good choice, but I can understand people who 1434 01:16:06.279 --> 01:16:08.680 might feel dissatisfied by it at the same time. 1435 01:16:08.760 --> 01:16:13.920 Well, so Doomsday kind of has two origins. Mike Carlin 1436 01:16:14.039 --> 01:16:16.239 came up with a name for the original villain because 1437 01:16:16.279 --> 01:16:19.319 he wrote on the whiteboard Doomsday for Superman, and they 1438 01:16:19.520 --> 01:16:21.239 just thought that that was a really great name. The 1439 01:16:21.359 --> 01:16:25.520 design for the villain came from sketches that Dan Jurgens 1440 01:16:25.520 --> 01:16:27.800 had had for like sort of a monstrous character that 1441 01:16:27.840 --> 01:16:29.840 he just always wanted to do but just had never 1442 01:16:29.960 --> 01:16:34.880 used anywhere. Yeah, So when they decided what villain should 1443 01:16:34.960 --> 01:16:39.000 kill Superman, they thought that the existing foes were like 1444 01:16:39.119 --> 01:16:43.039 too much on technology and intellect, and they did not 1445 01:16:43.279 --> 01:16:48.119 want to kill Superman by using

kryptonite. That was off 1446 01:16:48.159 --> 01:16:51.560 the table. They were like, we will not use any 1447 01:16:51.600 --> 01:16:55.560 part of kryptonite to kill Superman. So in the month 1448 01:16:55.680 --> 01:16:58.359 prior to the death of Superman, each of Superman's stories 1449 01:16:58.399 --> 01:17:02.079 began with a massive, green gloved fist hitting a metal wall, 1450 01:17:02.560 --> 01:17:07.319 just saying Doomsday was coming. And as the month wore on, 1451 01:17:07.399 --> 01:17:11.319 the glove began to collapse, revealing gray skin and bony 1452 01:17:11.359 --> 01:17:16.159 protrusions like demented and monstrous Wolverine. And suddenly the wall 1453 01:17:16.159 --> 01:17:24.319 broke open and Doomsday was here. Dune, Dune done Now. 1454 01:17:24.359 --> 01:17:28.600 Superman's long, bloody fight against Doomsday would take place across 1455 01:17:28.720 --> 01:17:31.640 four issues, leading towards the climatic finale and Superman Number 1456 01:17:31.680 --> 01:17:35.680 seventy five. In the seventy seventy fifth issue, Dan Jergens 1457 01:17:35.720 --> 01:17:38.119 wanted the final issue to be told through splash pages 1458 01:17:38.479 --> 01:17:41.960 and emphasizing the suspense and the action. And if you 1459 01:17:42.239 --> 01:17:45.359 read this storyline it's only four issues, you will notice 1460 01:17:45.399 --> 01:17:47.600 something special. And I've talked about this on this podcast before. 1461 01:17:48.039 --> 01:17:50.880 Adventures of Superman number four ninety seven was the first 1462 01:17:50.920 --> 01:17:53.960 part of the storyline. It would use four panels per 1463 01:17:54.079 --> 01:17:58.560 page on every single path. Action Comics six' eighty four 1464 01:17:58.760 --> 01:18:02.600 was part two, and it was reduced to three panels 1465 01:18:02.640 --> 01:18:06.439 per page. Man Is Still nineteen had two panels per page, 1466 01:18:06.600 --> 01:18:09.319 leading to death, the death the Superman Superman seventy five 1467 01:18:09.359 --> 01:18:12.399 having one panel, so it is a countdown to his death. 1468 01:18:12.439 --> 01:18:14.960 Can I let me let me finish and tell you 1469 01:18:14.960 --> 01:18:15.640 whose idea this was? 1470 01:18:15.640 --> 01:18:15.760 Real? 1471 01:18:15.840 --> 01:18:19.159 Quick? Okay? Sure, Brett Breeding was the one who came 1472 01:18:19.239 --> 01:18:21.079 up with this idea and thought process. 1473 01:18:21.359 --> 01:18:24.000 Okay, So now I know for sure what year I 1474 01:18:24.000 --> 01:18:27.399 read this. It was twenty fifteen, because this was when 1475 01:18:27.560 --> 01:18:30.039 Jason and I were at the height of creating and 1476 01:18:30.079 --> 01:18:32.880 pitching comics and doing a lot of stuff for anthologies, 1477 01:18:34.439 --> 01:18:37.520 and you, Jason, were a big part of like helping 1478 01:18:37.520 --> 01:18:40.920 me understand what you can do different in a comics medium, 1479 01:18:40.960 --> 01:18:43.680 And you pointed this out to me as an example 1480 01:18:43.680 --> 01:18:46.039 of how you can use format to tell a story, 1481 01:18:46.079 --> 01:18:48.399 and like how format affects the pace of reading. 1482 01:18:48.560 --> 01:18:50.880 And that's why I initially read the Death of Superman. 1483 01:18:51.079 --> 01:18:57.600 Ah Okay, so Superman's superpowered battle basically happened in the 1484 01:18:57.640 --> 01:19:01.199 heart of Metropolis. Superman was going to die fighting Doomsday. 1485 01:19:01.239 --> 01:19:04.359 He dies on the steps of the Daily Planet, and 1486 01:19:04.399 --> 01:19:07.279 the heartbreaking final page of Superman seventy five was a 1487 01:19:07.399 --> 01:19:11.840 triple page spread featuring Lois Lane engulfed in tears as 1488 01:19:11.880 --> 01:19:16.720 Superman laid dead in the wreckage. Ashley, Yes, let's talk 1489 01:19:16.720 --> 01:19:19.560 about this classic image. Yeah, everybody if you have read 1490 01:19:19.600 --> 01:19:22.840 any combooks, I think has seen this classic Dan Jurgen's 1491 01:19:22.920 --> 01:19:28.600 image yep of the cape in the background and lowest crying. 1492 01:19:28.399 --> 01:19:31.159 In the collected editions. If it's not the cape on 1493 01:19:31.199 --> 01:19:33.159 the stick, it's this image. 1494 01:19:32.760 --> 01:19:36.399 On the cover alway almost all the time, you know, 1495 01:19:36.840 --> 01:19:38.800 you it's funny. At this point, I was going to 1496 01:19:38.840 --> 01:19:42.039 ask you about, you know, people bringing their issues to 1497 01:19:42.079 --> 01:19:44.960 seventy five up to the comic cop it's literally my nose. 1498 01:19:45.000 --> 01:19:47.239 Ask Ashley about Superman seventy one. 1499 01:19:47.279 --> 01:19:49.880 We used to tell people this is no drag. It's 1500 01:19:49.920 --> 01:19:52.199 a great issue. It's a great story. But again there's 1501 01:19:52.239 --> 01:19:54.119 just such a prolifery. It's like it's the same thing 1502 01:19:54.319 --> 01:19:57.439 any ninety Spider Man issues worthless, we used to tell 1503 01:19:57.479 --> 01:20:00.000 people because people would die, like Superman dies in this issue. 1504 01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:01.840 It's so important, and we'd be like, it is not 1505 01:20:01.920 --> 01:20:02.520 worth the paper. 1506 01:20:02.520 --> 01:20:04.880 It's printed. He's died like two more times since then. 1507 01:20:05.119 --> 01:20:07.960 Then if it was in the poly bag, people would say, 1508 01:20:08.039 --> 01:20:11.359 but it's in the bag, it's ever been open. And 1509 01:20:11.439 --> 01:20:14.359 so because I was not a kind and generous person, 1510 01:20:14.359 --> 01:20:15.840 I would be like, oh, yeah, those are blank pages 1511 01:20:15.840 --> 01:20:17.079 and there they didn't even print the comic. 1512 01:20:19.600 --> 01:20:23.039 Fun fact, I have never ever owned the poly bag 1513 01:20:23.159 --> 01:20:24.039 version of this issue. 1514 01:20:24.199 --> 01:20:26.600 I can I can buy I can go

walk and 1515 01:20:26.640 --> 01:20:28.720 get you on right now for a dollar yes I know, 1516 01:20:28.920 --> 01:20:31.119 oh they mean twenty five cents. 1517 01:20:31.359 --> 01:20:33.239 Yeah. There are new versions of it. They just published 1518 01:20:33.239 --> 01:20:35.920 like a thirtieth anniversary special. Yeah, yeah, no, they're amazing. 1519 01:20:35.960 --> 01:20:37.720 One of them has like an armband in it. I 1520 01:20:37.840 --> 01:20:38.840 thought about it going to get it. 1521 01:20:38.920 --> 01:20:40.319 Yeah, I want that armband. 1522 01:20:45.319 --> 01:20:48.800 Honestly, you know enough retailers, someone will just throw twelve 1523 01:20:48.840 --> 01:20:49.399 copies of. 1524 01:20:49.319 --> 01:20:50.840 That issue at you to get them out of their 1525 01:20:50.920 --> 01:20:53.840 storage space. But what do you think about this image, Ashley, 1526 01:20:53.840 --> 01:20:55.479 what do you think about the choice to have Superman 1527 01:20:55.600 --> 01:20:57.800 die on the steps of the Daily Planet? Okay, so 1528 01:20:58.359 --> 01:21:05.880 Superman's dead. Thoughts, oh, insights about this specific moment Superman's 1529 01:21:05.920 --> 01:21:10.640 actual death that he dies, is the city safe? He 1530 01:21:10.680 --> 01:21:12.520 turned the page, He turn the page and he goes 1531 01:21:13.039 --> 01:21:17.760 he does. Yeah, you can hear the win and Lois 1532 01:21:17.800 --> 01:21:20.319 goes from no like Joe, like you can just hear 1533 01:21:20.359 --> 01:21:20.880 her wails. 1534 01:21:21.079 --> 01:21:24.000 Yeah, it's very It's very dramatic in the way that 1535 01:21:24.039 --> 01:21:27.960 like comic books are melodrama, that is the in soap opera, 1536 01:21:28.000 --> 01:21:30.680 like that is that is the tone at all accounts? 1537 01:21:31.319 --> 01:21:35.000 I think it's I think it is such a clear 1538 01:21:36.479 --> 01:21:40.399 distillation of everything that Superman is and everything that he 1539 01:21:40.479 --> 01:21:45.680 stands for. Like, he dies, he dies at work, he 1540 01:21:45.840 --> 01:21:47.840 kind of the arms of the love of his life. 1541 01:21:47.880 --> 01:21:50.199 Well, he dies at work saving the city from doomsday, 1542 01:21:50.680 --> 01:21:52.239 but he also dies on the foot feet of the deal. 1543 01:21:52.359 --> 01:21:54.000 I know, I know. But Superman is sort of his 1544 01:21:54.079 --> 01:21:56.279 work job too. Yeah, he works two jobs and he 1545 01:21:56.319 --> 01:21:58.840 dies at both of them. He's how american is that 1546 01:21:58.960 --> 01:22:01.119 he doesn't live in imagine like Bruce Wayne. Now he's 1547 01:22:01.159 --> 01:22:03.439 working two jobs and he's killed for it. 1548 01:22:03.640 --> 01:22:06.279 Yeah, and he's murdered and dies in the arms of 1549 01:22:06.279 --> 01:22:07.039 the love of his light like it. 1550 01:22:07.239 --> 01:22:11.760 He dies at work, yeah, doing both of his jobs. Yeah. Yeah. 1551 01:22:11.800 --> 01:22:13.680 I think

it is such a clear distillation of who 1552 01:22:13.720 --> 01:22:16.840 Superman is and what they were trying to say about 1553 01:22:16.840 --> 01:22:18.359 this character and his impact. 1554 01:22:18.520 --> 01:22:20.880 Uh huh. And it's a really. 1555 01:22:20.800 --> 01:22:24.039 Stunning image, like just as not even a piece of 1556 01:22:24.039 --> 01:22:26.359 comic book, ar but just as a piece of art. 1557 01:22:27.319 --> 01:22:28.840 It is really arresting. 1558 01:22:28.880 --> 01:22:31.920 And like you said earlier, you can hear Lois Lane screen, 1559 01:22:31.960 --> 01:22:33.359 Like if you can hear you can have like an 1560 01:22:33.359 --> 01:22:35.079 ASMR experience of a comic book. 1561 01:22:35.640 --> 01:22:40.439 That's that's quite something. Now. DC did not intend for 1562 01:22:40.479 --> 01:22:43.840 Superman's death to be permanent, but they kept the secret 1563 01:22:43.920 --> 01:22:45.439 because you know, they know how to sol a story, 1564 01:22:45.720 --> 01:22:47.479 and they also there was no Internet for people to 1565 01:22:47.479 --> 01:22:51.199 spoil everything, and they all sign non disclosure agreements preventing 1566 01:22:51.239 --> 01:22:54.520 them from revealing when the character would return. Mike Carland 1567 01:22:54.520 --> 01:22:56.720 expected fans to know the death would be temporary, but 1568 01:22:56.800 --> 01:22:59.119 he did say in an interview in twenty eighteen that 1569 01:22:59.239 --> 01:23:03.159 he could not believe how many newspaper reporters and TV 1570 01:23:03.279 --> 01:23:07.279 reporters interviewed him like the death was permanent. However, the 1571 01:23:07.359 --> 01:23:11.119 teams delayed all Superman comics ever changed comic book journalism. 1572 01:23:11.840 --> 01:23:15.880 Teams delayed all Superman comic books for three months after 1573 01:23:15.920 --> 01:23:18.600 his death to create the illusion that he had been 1574 01:23:18.720 --> 01:23:23.680 killed because of the solicitation cycle would have spoiled his 1575 01:23:23.760 --> 01:23:28.119 resurrection in the venture comics. Yeah, now, Ashley, let's explain 1576 01:23:28.159 --> 01:23:31.119 you worked in comics. Are explain the solicitation cycle in 1577 01:23:31.159 --> 01:23:33.760 case people aren't that familiar with how comic books are 1578 01:23:33.800 --> 01:23:35.840 like sort of sold to combo show. Yeah. So, because 1579 01:23:35.840 --> 01:23:38.920 we're beholden to Diamond, which is something that which is 1580 01:23:38.960 --> 01:23:39.720 not true anymore. 1581 01:23:39.960 --> 01:23:43.720 Well, it's becoming increasingly less true. You have to order 1582 01:23:43.760 --> 01:23:45.359 on the Diamond schedule, which means that. 1583 01:23:45.319 --> 01:23:47.840 You whose Diamond. Just in case somebody doesn't know, Diamond 1584 01:23:47.920 --> 01:23:48.680 is a distributory. 1585 01:23:49.079 --> 01:23:52.479 So they're the ones who when they receive from the 1586 01:23:52.600 --> 01:23:55.640 printers or the publishers all the issues, they're the ones 1587 01:23:55.640 --> 01:23:57.000 who break them up and send them to your local 1588 01:23:57.079 --> 01:23:57.720 comic book store. 1589 01:23:59.159 --> 01:24:02.720 They're awful, They suck. They're the worst. 1590 01:24:03.000 --> 01:24:04.800 Moving away from driving is the best thing the comic 1591 01:24:04.800 --> 01:24:07.720 industry is on in years, and so ordering on their 1592 01:24:07.720 --> 01:24:10.039 cycle means that they send out a catalog called previews 1593 01:24:10.760 --> 01:24:14.159 physical and digital now, and you have to order five 1594 01:24:14.359 --> 01:24:16.960 months in advance. So you, as a retailer or sometimes 1595 01:24:17.039 --> 01:24:20.399 a manager in a retail space, have to guess what 1596 01:24:20.479 --> 01:24:23.079 your customers are going to want five months from now. 1597 01:24:23.119 --> 01:24:28.039 But as a result, depending on the quality of the solicitation, 1598 01:24:28.119 --> 01:24:31.479 which is the little blurb describing what happened, sometimes stuff 1599 01:24:31.479 --> 01:24:37.560 gets really spoiled. So this is actually in terms of 1600 01:24:37.600 --> 01:24:41.439 like a macrocosmic view of how the comic book publishing industry. 1601 01:24:41.640 --> 01:24:45.760 This is a genius move, really smart. So this storyline 1602 01:24:46.079 --> 01:24:52.079 tore through news media. I remember, I can remember seeing 1603 01:24:52.119 --> 01:24:54.960 a news report on television about the death of Superman. 1604 01:24:55.119 --> 01:24:58.479 I can remember. This will show you how old I 1605 01:24:58.520 --> 01:25:01.720 am twenty five. I can remember member reading a newspaper 1606 01:25:01.840 --> 01:25:05.199 article about the death of Superman. Yeah, I believe USA 1607 01:25:05.279 --> 01:25:08.920 today or they all covered it, put on the front page. Yeah. 1608 01:25:09.000 --> 01:25:14.720 So this issue sold like gangbusters. Yeah. First edition copies 1609 01:25:14.760 --> 01:25:18.720 of Superman seventy five sold expensively on the secondary market, 1610 01:25:18.880 --> 01:25:22.680 and the runaway success of the entire endeavor would convince 1611 01:25:22.960 --> 01:25:26.039 DC editorial bosses that they should do the same exact 1612 01:25:26.079 --> 01:25:30.199 thing to all their other superhero murder that so in 1613 01:25:30.479 --> 01:25:32.960 That's such a DC in a bunch of in a 1614 01:25:32.960 --> 01:25:35.600 bunch of movies. Batman's back was soon broken. The next 1615 01:25:35.640 --> 01:25:38.760 couple of years, Greenland and hal Jordan lost his city 1616 01:25:38.800 --> 01:25:41.640 and turned into a villain. There were plans in place 1617 01:25:41.680 --> 01:25:45.159 to kill off Wonder Woman, Flash and Green Arrow, although 1618 01:25:45.760 --> 01:25:50.760 only Green Arrow happened. And and it has been said 1619 01:25:50.880 --> 01:25:54.399 in later interviews that the death of

Superman is the 1620 01:25:54.640 --> 01:25:58.359 entire reason why the spider Man clone saga happens over 1621 01:25:58.399 --> 01:26:01.399 at Marvel, where Spider Man is replaced by his clone. Now, Ashley, 1622 01:26:01.439 --> 01:26:05.000 I want to ask you, do you think any of 1623 01:26:05.079 --> 01:26:09.000 these other replacement storylines or maim or hurt or kill 1624 01:26:09.079 --> 01:26:11.119 our hero storylines are successful? 1625 01:26:12.279 --> 01:26:17.520 Ooh, the Batman one is Batman's Nightfall? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1626 01:26:18.600 --> 01:26:20.680 the whole bane of it all. I think the Green 1627 01:26:20.760 --> 01:26:22.239 Lantern one is a successful The Green. 1628 01:26:22.119 --> 01:26:24.199 Lantern one is pretty successful. I mean, I hate hal 1629 01:26:24.279 --> 01:26:27.560 Jordan's although a lot of people were very angry about 1630 01:26:28.000 --> 01:26:30.560 how they villainized, how they turned how Jordan evil. Yeah, 1631 01:26:30.560 --> 01:26:31.840 a lot of people didn't know that Hell has always 1632 01:26:31.840 --> 01:26:32.560 been a villain. Ah. 1633 01:26:34.479 --> 01:26:36.760 I think the all of one is successful as well. 1634 01:26:36.840 --> 01:26:38.600 Obviously it's a much more if you're looking at the 1635 01:26:38.640 --> 01:26:41.239 sort of again the macrocosmic view of like DC publishing, 1636 01:26:41.279 --> 01:26:44.520 it's a much smaller but like, that's a great storyline. 1637 01:26:45.239 --> 01:26:47.279 And some of the characters who come. Some of the 1638 01:26:47.359 --> 01:26:50.439 characters who come or step up out of these storylines, 1639 01:26:50.640 --> 01:26:52.159 including your very favorite as bat. 1640 01:26:54.479 --> 01:26:57.960 Batman, are Connor Hawk, the second line Green Arrows, use. 1641 01:26:57.960 --> 01:27:01.800 Me, yeah, are are really are some of my favorite 1642 01:27:01.800 --> 01:27:04.239 in their franchises. So, I mean, I would say when 1643 01:27:04.279 --> 01:27:06.760 you lay it out like that, it does feel very silly, 1644 01:27:06.800 --> 01:27:09.039 and again it feels like such and like that's such 1645 01:27:09.039 --> 01:27:12.119 a DC move to do. However, ultimately I would say 1646 01:27:12.119 --> 01:27:15.079 it's success. So these are all popular, well regarded storyline. 1647 01:27:15.119 --> 01:27:17.319 It's funny because I would have never put the clone 1648 01:27:17.359 --> 01:27:21.079 saga together with being tied to death of Superman. But 1649 01:27:21.159 --> 01:27:23.439 when you think about it, you're like, oh, that is 1650 01:27:23.479 --> 01:27:25.239 one hundred percent of the reason they did before. 1651 01:27:25.319 --> 01:27:27.279 And they literally eat their cake and have it too 1652 01:27:27.439 --> 01:27:29.720 because they have just another Peter Parker. 1653 01:27:29.800 --> 01:27:34.520 Yeah yeah. Now, the media attention, which nobody on the 1654 01:27:34.600 --> 01:27:38.479 DC Warner boats side expected

yeah yeah, caused Mike Carlin 1655 01:27:38.600 --> 01:27:43.239 to delay Superman's resurrection Beyond the Adventures of Superman Number 1656 01:27:43.239 --> 01:27:46.159 five hundred because the teams knew that bringing Superman back 1657 01:27:46.359 --> 01:27:50.600 that soon would be illogical, and they held an emergency 1658 01:27:50.600 --> 01:27:53.600 summit Superman some at a hotel in Terrytown, New York, 1659 01:27:53.840 --> 01:27:57.279 where they decided to plot and rewrite their story. They 1660 01:27:57.319 --> 01:28:01.079 decided to introduce a new version of Superman before bringing 1661 01:28:01.079 --> 01:28:05.560 back the original, which each writer coming back with different ideas. 1662 01:28:05.600 --> 01:28:08.720 Simonson Louis Simonson says that each writer create their own Superman, 1663 01:28:08.760 --> 01:28:11.039 which not only solved the problem of what the new 1664 01:28:11.119 --> 01:28:13.880 character would be like, but finally allowed each of these 1665 01:28:13.880 --> 01:28:17.479 Superman teams to have independence after years of each of 1666 01:28:17.520 --> 01:28:21.319 their storylines funneling into the next one. Yeah, yeah, now, Ashley, Yes, 1667 01:28:21.640 --> 01:28:25.439 I would like you to name the four replacements. Superman's 1668 01:28:25.439 --> 01:28:28.239 always when I forget of the reen of Superman, Superboy 1669 01:28:28.600 --> 01:28:31.039 in the best costume, Superboy, the Clone. Yes, that's correct, 1670 01:28:31.520 --> 01:28:34.239 so cute. We love him, such a such a piece 1671 01:28:34.279 --> 01:28:38.079 of war. Now, of course, all these characters for readers 1672 01:28:38.359 --> 01:28:41.039 and listeners, they were all called Superman when they debuted. Yeah, 1673 01:28:41.039 --> 01:28:45.760 super Boy actually was in the Adventures Superman Steel. Yes Steel, 1674 01:28:46.000 --> 01:28:49.000 John Henry irons he's the man in the iron man 1675 01:28:49.039 --> 01:28:50.920 like suit that looks like Superman. He's got a hammer. 1676 01:28:50.960 --> 01:28:53.479 He's amazing. We love him. He was Louise Simonson's character. 1677 01:28:53.520 --> 01:28:54.840 He was in Superman The Man of Steel. 1678 01:28:54.960 --> 01:28:57.600 Yeah, if anyone has never read that series as well, 1679 01:28:57.640 --> 01:29:00.840 that's an amazing, excellent He's also gone on to be 1680 01:29:00.880 --> 01:29:03.800 like an incredibly important character in the Supergirl TV show, 1681 01:29:03.840 --> 01:29:06.960 and he's Superman Man Lewis as well. Yeah, really really awesome. 1682 01:29:08.359 --> 01:29:12.159 Uh, there's the Eradicator, the Eradicator, Yes, which that's the 1683 01:29:12.199 --> 01:29:15.920 one I usually forget Rooster Gold Superman. Uh No, it's 1684 01:29:15.960 --> 01:29:17.880 just because of the glasses he has, Yeah, giant ye 1685 01:29:17.880 --> 01:29:20.079 also glass. He was actually a John Byrne character. It 1686 01:29:20.159 --> 01:29:23.279 was a villain. He is a Kryptonian computer program. He 1687 01:29:23.319 --> 01:29:25.600 looks like Clark Kent. He looks like Superman. Basically. He 1688 01:29:25.680 --> 01:29:28.960 was introduced in Action Comics. He was Roger Stearn's character. 1689 01:29:29.359 --> 01:29:31.920 Roger Stern said that he wanted to write Superman as 1690 01:29:31.960 --> 01:29:34.359 if he were like the Pope or like a messiah 1691 01:29:34.479 --> 01:29:36.960 like character. Yeah, that's that's fairly accurate. And then the 1692 01:29:36.960 --> 01:29:40.720 Cyborg Superman and the Cyborg Superman is Dan Jurgen's Superman 1693 01:29:40.720 --> 01:29:41.680 who Beard in Superman. 1694 01:29:41.720 --> 01:29:43.680 He looks like what if Terminator in Superman had an 1695 01:29:43.680 --> 01:29:44.880 evil baby exactly. 1696 01:29:45.239 --> 01:29:48.279 Apparently he was like an idea that Dan Jurgens had 1697 01:29:48.279 --> 01:29:50.520 had for like a future Superman, but then decided to 1698 01:29:50.560 --> 01:29:52.880 convert him into this good idea. So there you go. 1699 01:29:53.840 --> 01:29:54.800 Who's your favorite one? 1700 01:29:54.920 --> 01:29:58.680 Superboy is Superboy? No, honestly it's probably Steel Mine Steel. 1701 01:29:59.039 --> 01:30:02.319 But I do think this is my preferred version of Superboy. 1702 01:30:02.439 --> 01:30:04.920 Oh okay, is this version okay? Well, let me ask 1703 01:30:04.960 --> 01:30:10.279 you this, what do you think, Like, do you think 1704 01:30:10.319 --> 01:30:11.760 the Reign of Superman was successful? 1705 01:30:13.079 --> 01:30:15.880 Yes, because these characters are alstoll around most of them are, 1706 01:30:16.199 --> 01:30:17.920 I mean Cyborgshupman's not around. 1707 01:30:18.000 --> 01:30:21.560 Well, they're all around in that they show up regularly 1708 01:30:21.840 --> 01:30:25.159 or semi regularly in the comics, the TV shows, the 1709 01:30:25.199 --> 01:30:28.319 cartoons like they made a whole movie of the Reign of. 1710 01:30:28.319 --> 01:30:31.600 The Superman and it's good. Yeah. 1711 01:30:31.640 --> 01:30:33.800 So yeah, I mean I can't speak to the sales, 1712 01:30:35.319 --> 01:30:39.439 having blessedly never worked at Diamond. Yeah, but ultimately like, yeah, 1713 01:30:39.479 --> 01:30:41.439 I think I think through the long lens of history 1714 01:30:41.439 --> 01:30:43.640 and art history, definitely successful for sure. 1715 01:30:46.760 --> 01:30:50.079 Jason has like eighty five of these actions. We're gonna 1716 01:30:50.079 --> 01:30:58.640 find out which ones I have right after this welcome 1717 01:30:58.680 --> 01:31:03.800 back figure. The podcast, all we do is talk about 1718 01:31:03.840 --> 01:31:08.119 action figures. So ball jointed action figures. Do we like them? 1719 01:31:08.199 --> 01:31:08.600 Yes or no? 1720 01:31:08.720 --> 01:31:12.640 Ashley, No, I like them better as little figurines because 1721 01:31:12.680 --> 01:31:15.600 then they don't fall, their

knees, don't buckle all the time, so. 1722 01:31:15.640 --> 01:31:18.720 Irritated, mainly their ankles. So let's talk about which of 1723 01:31:18.720 --> 01:31:20.960 the rains of the Superman's that I have? So I 1724 01:31:21.000 --> 01:31:26.039 actually it's fun fact I have two. I actually have 1725 01:31:26.119 --> 01:31:28.520 action figures of all the rain of the Superman except 1726 01:31:28.560 --> 01:31:31.680 for Cyborg Superman. Do not have Cyborg Superman. I really 1727 01:31:31.720 --> 01:31:35.359 would liked one. The Mezco made one that's very expensive. 1728 01:31:35.359 --> 01:31:37.279 It's one hundred dollars and I'm not going to spend 1729 01:31:37.279 --> 01:31:38.680 a hundred dollars an action figure. Anyways. 1730 01:31:38.680 --> 01:31:39.840 If you want to spend a hundred dollars on an 1731 01:31:39.840 --> 01:31:41.560 action figure for Jason, you can reach out to a 1732 01:31:41.640 --> 01:31:42.640 po box address. 1733 01:31:44.760 --> 01:31:48.439 I have steel, and a very amazing steel and it 1734 01:31:48.479 --> 01:31:51.159 wasn't from the DC Universe Classics line. It was from 1735 01:31:51.199 --> 01:31:54.680 this weird Superman line that they had before that, and 1736 01:31:54.720 --> 01:31:57.840 that steel was actually gifted to me by Jeremy Skinner 1737 01:31:58.159 --> 01:32:01.119 being Jason and Jeremy John about just but I also 1738 01:32:01.159 --> 01:32:04.640 have a super Boy Action figure that I got very 1739 01:32:04.680 --> 01:32:08.880 recently that is from DC University. Yeah, and I believe, 1740 01:32:09.319 --> 01:32:11.439 I don't. It was gifted to me by a geekers 1741 01:32:11.479 --> 01:32:14.439 rust and listener, and I forgot who said it to me, 1742 01:32:15.079 --> 01:32:17.199 but I know you're listening, and I want to say 1743 01:32:17.239 --> 01:32:20.680 thank you. I remember because I had posted online that 1744 01:32:20.800 --> 01:32:22.279 it was like or I'd said on one of these 1745 01:32:22.319 --> 01:32:26.199 podcasts that I wanted to desperately, I really wanted that figure, 1746 01:32:26.199 --> 01:32:27.399 and I forgot who said it to me. 1747 01:32:27.920 --> 01:32:30.520 Tweet us let us know at GHL podcast and we'll 1748 01:32:30.520 --> 01:32:31.920 give you a proper shout out there. 1749 01:32:31.920 --> 01:32:33.880 You go, yeah, yeah, so we'll give it up there. 1750 01:32:33.920 --> 01:32:36.319 So but yeah, those are my two favorite figures. So 1751 01:32:36.760 --> 01:32:38.840 two of these guys turned out to be villains. Two 1752 01:32:38.840 --> 01:32:41.239 of these were good guys. And then a black suited 1753 01:32:41.279 --> 01:32:45.079 Superman with long hair showed up who was revealed to 1754 01:32:45.159 --> 01:32:47.920 be the real Superman. He had no powers and he 1755 01:32:48.079 --> 01:32:49.640 liked to carry guns, and he and this is the 1756 01:32:49.720 --> 01:32:53.760 first version of the black suit now Ashley. When the 1757 01:32:53.760 --> 01:32:57.159 black suited Superman showed up, yep, he walked up the 1758 01:32:57.199 --> 01:33:02.720 lowess and how do you think he proved to Lois 1759 01:33:02.720 --> 01:33:04.920 that he was the real Superman, Lois said, prove that 1760 01:33:05.079 --> 01:33:09.560 you are the real Superman. What do you think he 1761 01:33:09.680 --> 01:33:11.960 said to her? To prove that he was the real suit, 1762 01:33:12.079 --> 01:33:14.119 he ripped off his mustache, and that's how she knew. 1763 01:33:15.159 --> 01:33:17.000 He's like, I'm back from Mission impossible. Here I am. 1764 01:33:17.680 --> 01:33:19.760 He kissed her right on the mouth, and he didn't 1765 01:33:19.800 --> 01:33:21.880 have to say anything because his tonsils did all that talking. 1766 01:33:22.279 --> 01:33:27.119 No, he said, what about to kill a Mockingbird? Now 1767 01:33:27.159 --> 01:33:31.760 why is this significant? I don't know. To Kill a 1768 01:33:31.800 --> 01:33:34.680 Mockingbird is Clark Kent's favorite movie. Oh, there you go. 1769 01:33:35.199 --> 01:33:38.680 So that's how she knew this was the real Superman. 1770 01:33:40.000 --> 01:33:44.159 So when Superman came back in this long version, Dan 1771 01:33:44.239 --> 01:33:47.239 Jurgons did not simply want to use Superman's classic design 1772 01:33:47.279 --> 01:33:49.359 when he was revived, So that's why they gave him 1773 01:33:49.359 --> 01:33:51.000 the long hair, and the black suit was like an 1774 01:33:51.000 --> 01:33:52.159 idea they had for another story. 1775 01:33:52.279 --> 01:33:54.039 Do you think that the black suit is in any 1776 01:33:54.039 --> 01:33:55.640 way derivative or inspired by. 1777 01:33:56.000 --> 01:33:56.960 Spider Man's black suit? 1778 01:33:57.680 --> 01:34:01.520 I mean sure, maybe intentionally are uninto subconsciousness. 1779 01:34:01.680 --> 01:34:05.800 Maybe I don't know. So Ashley, what do you what 1780 01:34:05.840 --> 01:34:09.960 do you think is the real in story reason for 1781 01:34:10.079 --> 01:34:13.399 how Superman came back to life. It's pretty complicated in 1782 01:34:13.439 --> 01:34:18.000 a little gonzo oh Boy, but this is the actual 1783 01:34:18.119 --> 01:34:21.319 in universe comic science of how he survived. 1784 01:34:21.640 --> 01:34:28.079 So Jorel, who lives inside the crystal, vibrated all of 1785 01:34:28.119 --> 01:34:32.920 his remaining Kryptonian essences into the crystals and they reached 1786 01:34:32.920 --> 01:34:35.960 down into the roots of the earth and shot Kryptonian 1787 01:34:36.079 --> 01:34:40.159 lightning into Superman's body where he was buried in like 1788 01:34:40.159 --> 01:34:44.199 a Kansas farm or whatever, and like frankensnine, and he 1789 01:34:44.439 --> 01:34:50.800 rose up out of the ground the coffin, and that's 1790 01:34:50.840 --> 01:34:51.720 how he got revived. 1791 01:34:52.479 --> 01:34:55.920 Has nothing to do but a good guess. In the 1792 01:34:55.960 --> 01:34:58.560 aftermath of the death of

Superman, it was revealed that 1793 01:34:58.600 --> 01:35:04.399 the Eradicator, the Crypto computer program, was activated. He stole 1794 01:35:04.520 --> 01:35:07.680 Superman's body from the crypt and he placed him inside 1795 01:35:07.680 --> 01:35:10.880 a Kryptonian device in the Fortress of Solitude called the 1796 01:35:11.000 --> 01:35:17.520 Regeneration Matrix. Back to tank yep, it's a dis x 1797 01:35:17.640 --> 01:35:21.880 machame machine. The Regeneration Matrix allowed the Eradicator to siphon 1798 01:35:21.920 --> 01:35:24.960 off Superman's powers for himself as a ord or to 1799 01:35:25.039 --> 01:35:27.720 pose as Superman. That's when he did this, and it 1800 01:35:27.840 --> 01:35:31.479 slowly revived him from death or at least left him 1801 01:35:31.520 --> 01:35:36.359 in a special Kryptonian deathlike state, because apparently with Kryptonians 1802 01:35:36.359 --> 01:35:40.399 there's a difference between mostly dead and all dead. Upon 1803 01:35:40.560 --> 01:35:45.159 Superman's resurrection, the Eradicator made sure to note, probably because 1804 01:35:45.159 --> 01:35:47.800 of the input of DC editorial. 1805 01:35:51.520 --> 01:35:54.199 They just called him up on their little phone matrix 1806 01:35:54.239 --> 01:35:58.760 and were like, look here, a radicator, you gotta say 1807 01:35:58.840 --> 01:35:59.199 this line. 1808 01:35:59.239 --> 01:36:02.640 The Eradicator basically told Superman it's safe to say that 1809 01:36:02.680 --> 01:36:06.000 something like this will never be possible. Again, that's not 1810 01:36:06.000 --> 01:36:08.920 true at all. Yeah, I know two more times, even 1811 01:36:08.960 --> 01:36:10.880 though I think Superman has yet died a couple more times. 1812 01:36:10.960 --> 01:36:14.039 So they all teamed up all these rains of the 1813 01:36:14.079 --> 01:36:17.800 Superman's to defeat the cyborg Superman, who at this point 1814 01:36:17.800 --> 01:36:19.520 in the story and had revealed himself as a full 1815 01:36:19.600 --> 01:36:22.560 villain because he blew up Coast City Green Lanterns home, 1816 01:36:23.039 --> 01:36:26.119 and then the real Superman eventually beat him up and 1817 01:36:26.319 --> 01:36:29.239 got his red and blue costume again in basically a 1818 01:36:29.279 --> 01:36:32.520 page flip, and the team also in this design, they 1819 01:36:32.560 --> 01:36:35.359 decided to deepen the red and the blue of Superman's 1820 01:36:35.399 --> 01:36:38.159 costume to signify that things had changed. 1821 01:36:39.479 --> 01:36:42.159 I also like that in English, the word rain has 1822 01:36:42.439 --> 01:36:45.039 three or four meetings. Yeah, so you said the reins 1823 01:36:45.079 --> 01:36:49.279 of the Superman, and I just imagine, like Clark can't 1824 01:36:49.319 --> 01:36:51.600 like pulling a chariot up before. 1825 01:36:52.520 --> 01:37:04.199 Replaced in Superman. Anyways, So fun fact, this issue of 1826 01:37:04.239 --> 01:37:08.880 Superman that he returned actually came with a poster of 1827 01:37:08.880 --> 01:37:11.600 the long haired Superman flying away from this and I 1828 01:37:11.640 --> 01:37:13.760 had this. I had that poster on my wall for 1829 01:37:13.800 --> 01:37:15.880 several years. I'm just gonna throw that now. Let's talk 1830 01:37:15.920 --> 01:37:18.359 about in the some of the sales stuff. The bump 1831 01:37:18.520 --> 01:37:20.720 in sales that DC had taken from the death had 1832 01:37:20.760 --> 01:37:25.359 of course slumped during the return and to make matters worse, 1833 01:37:25.680 --> 01:37:28.680 the whole reason they delayed the marriage in the comic 1834 01:37:29.239 --> 01:37:31.439 was because of the Lowest and Clark television show. And 1835 01:37:31.520 --> 01:37:35.520 the television show they would not marry until October nineteen 1836 01:37:35.680 --> 01:37:39.600 ninety six, three years later, in an episode titled Swear 1837 01:37:39.640 --> 01:37:42.760 to God, this time we're not getting Season four, episode three. Yep, 1838 01:37:43.119 --> 01:37:46.800 the comics would finally be allowed to marry that year 1839 01:37:46.840 --> 01:37:49.399 as well, with the delay of the wedding, simply having 1840 01:37:49.479 --> 01:37:52.520 this excuse is that life is weird when you're a Superman. 1841 01:37:53.359 --> 01:37:56.000 This is funny because it's giving me real flashbacks to 1842 01:37:56.119 --> 01:37:59.840 the Batman non wedding in more recent comic books history, 1843 01:38:00.319 --> 01:38:04.640 so much drama around the idea that these characters might 1844 01:38:04.720 --> 01:38:06.520 want to put a ring on it. Yeah. Well, and 1845 01:38:06.560 --> 01:38:09.920 then also the wedding eventually allowed. This is where Superman 1846 01:38:09.960 --> 01:38:12.520 eventually cut off his hair, so we got short haired 1847 01:38:12.560 --> 01:38:16.840 Superman came back for the wedding. So generally, overall, DC 1848 01:38:16.960 --> 01:38:19.359 writers and DC editorial have denied that the death Superman 1849 01:38:19.600 --> 01:38:21.960 was a publicity stunt. But Ashley, I want to ask you, 1850 01:38:22.800 --> 01:38:28.760 is is the death of Superman a publicity stunt? Yes? 1851 01:38:28.920 --> 01:38:32.520 Or over the years has it morphed into something else? 1852 01:38:32.600 --> 01:38:34.600 You know, it's one hundred percent of publicity stunt. It's 1853 01:38:34.600 --> 01:38:39.600 just a really freaking good one that happened. Like luckily 1854 01:38:39.640 --> 01:38:41.600 because there were, as we stated at the top of this, 1855 01:38:41.680 --> 01:38:45.399 so many geniuses worry on this happened to actually be 1856 01:38:45.439 --> 01:38:50.119 worth a damn. This is like making Jane Foster thor 1857 01:38:50.600 --> 01:38:53.399 is a publicity stunt. It just happened to be a 1858 01:38:53.439 --> 01:38:55.800 really good one that actually worked. I think it's a 1859 01:38:55.800 --> 01:38:58.600 perfect example of that

necessity is the mother of invention. 1860 01:38:59.079 --> 01:39:01.079 I agree. Can I ask you a question? Yeah? Sure, 1861 01:39:01.119 --> 01:39:01.720 Because we were. 1862 01:39:01.600 --> 01:39:04.319 Talking about the weddings and taperhero weddings and stuff. What's 1863 01:39:04.359 --> 01:39:06.000 your favorite superhero wedding. 1864 01:39:06.439 --> 01:39:11.279 There aren't many, to be honest with you. I mean, 1865 01:39:11.359 --> 01:39:14.000 Gene Gray and Cyclops' wedding is pretty good. Yeah, the 1866 01:39:14.039 --> 01:39:18.640 Superman Lois Wedding issue is pretty good. Yeah. It's a 1867 01:39:18.640 --> 01:39:21.600 little goofy, So I've always liked that one. The cover 1868 01:39:21.720 --> 01:39:23.960 is fantastic. It's a John Byrne cover where they're flying 1869 01:39:23.960 --> 01:39:26.520 in the sky and they're like both smiling. I had 1870 01:39:26.560 --> 01:39:28.800 that issue. I uh, that's a great cover. 1871 01:39:29.039 --> 01:39:34.359 I think my favorite is still the Olie and Dinah 1872 01:39:34.600 --> 01:39:36.239 like the wedding album storyline. 1873 01:39:36.279 --> 01:39:38.000 Oh, I'm not a fan of that one. I really 1874 01:39:38.039 --> 01:39:39.800 like that. I find it very charming. I don't. I 1875 01:39:39.800 --> 01:39:42.680 don't like that one because that that wedding does the 1876 01:39:42.760 --> 01:39:45.319 thing that Lois and Clark did, where like you find 1877 01:39:45.319 --> 01:39:47.000 out that the Oliver that was during that in that 1878 01:39:47.000 --> 01:39:49.319 wedding was not Oliver, and so I was like, oh, 1879 01:39:49.319 --> 01:39:51.199 where is he? And then you're like, well, so are 1880 01:39:51.199 --> 01:39:52.640 they married or are they not married? 1881 01:39:52.760 --> 01:39:52.920 Oh? 1882 01:39:53.000 --> 01:39:55.520 I mean, but like I think the wedding itself and 1883 01:39:55.560 --> 01:39:57.199 like them having to like beat up bad guys at 1884 01:39:57.199 --> 01:39:58.359 their wedding, like very charming. 1885 01:39:58.439 --> 01:40:00.760 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it's a Yeah. So, actually, 1886 01:40:00.800 --> 01:40:02.960 what do you think is the legacy of death a 1887 01:40:03.039 --> 01:40:05.359 Superman later? 1888 01:40:05.520 --> 01:40:08.920 I mean, it changed, it changed everything. My mom knows 1889 01:40:08.920 --> 01:40:09.920 about this storyline. 1890 01:40:10.079 --> 01:40:11.680 Yeah, my mom does do, which is wild. 1891 01:40:11.439 --> 01:40:14.279 Because she knows like nothing about comic books. I don't 1892 01:40:14.279 --> 01:40:15.840 even think she knows that there's more than one Robin. 1893 01:40:23.199 --> 01:40:26.840 The legacy of this is is it's very similar actually 1894 01:40:26.920 --> 01:40:29.680 to night Wings legacy. It's that these characters can change 1895 01:40:29.680 --> 01:40:32.680 and they can bloom and grow. This opened the door 1896 01:40:32.840 --> 01:40:34.680 for I mean, you said there's not a lot of weddings. 1897 01:40:34.680 --> 01:40:36.319 There's not at the top of my head, there's not really, 1898 01:40:36.640 --> 01:40:39.319 but there are some. There's a lot of deaths, There 1899 01:40:39.359 --> 01:40:40.960 are a lot of this. There are a lot of. 1900 01:40:42.640 --> 01:40:45.359 Couples like Batman and Selina aave if they're not married, right, 1901 01:40:45.439 --> 01:40:47.479 like they're a relationship. Also, we cans evolve from this 1902 01:40:47.520 --> 01:40:49.439 point to where it is now, where we're all basically 1903 01:40:49.439 --> 01:40:52.800 like yeah, but they're married though. Yeah, and there's a. 1904 01:40:52.720 --> 01:40:53.279 Lot of deaths. 1905 01:40:53.319 --> 01:40:58.039 But it also this changes the precedence on death and 1906 01:40:58.239 --> 01:41:02.039 death's permanence. And you know, you made this joke ages 1907 01:41:02.079 --> 01:41:04.439 and ages ago, and like shit, comic book nerds say 1908 01:41:04.479 --> 01:41:07.520 where you were like, oh well, they'll never bring Bucky back. 1909 01:41:07.720 --> 01:41:10.279 Oh well, they'll never bring on cole Ben back, like 1910 01:41:10.279 --> 01:41:15.760 they've brought everybody back, whether it's an alternate universe, whether 1911 01:41:15.800 --> 01:41:18.680 it's a blip like we have seen Gwen Stacy and 1912 01:41:18.720 --> 01:41:21.520 Peter Parker talk about their grief for each other together 1913 01:41:21.760 --> 01:41:26.560 like this change, like this changed everything in a lot 1914 01:41:26.600 --> 01:41:28.520 of ways. There's a reason that it's revered, the reason 1915 01:41:28.520 --> 01:41:30.680 there's a thirtieth anniversary special, there's a reason there's new 1916 01:41:30.800 --> 01:41:31.640 stories being. 1917 01:41:31.479 --> 01:41:32.000 Told in that. 1918 01:41:33.479 --> 01:41:35.920 It's because that's how much it matters, and that's how 1919 01:41:35.960 --> 01:41:36.680 much people still get. 1920 01:41:36.680 --> 01:41:38.640 That's why we're talking about this today and not the 1921 01:41:38.680 --> 01:41:41.279 Clone Salka. Yeah, although we might tell you what the 1922 01:41:41.319 --> 01:41:45.520 Clone Tuga eventually. That might be a fun one to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1923 01:41:45.560 --> 01:41:48.359 I have never read The Clone Tuga spoiler alert. I 1924 01:41:48.439 --> 01:41:50.319 have read it take for the Death stoper in twice. 1925 01:41:50.439 --> 01:41:52.760 I have read it from start to finish. I did 1926 01:41:52.760 --> 01:41:54.439 it once because I think there was a sale on 1927 01:41:54.520 --> 01:41:56.039 Comics Ology or something like that, so I bought them 1928 01:41:56.079 --> 01:41:58.079 all and I decided to dive in. I remember that 1929 01:41:58.119 --> 01:42:03.920 and I read it and it is so bad. It 1930 01:42:04.039 --> 01:42:10.119 is mind numbingly bad. Yeah, it is like watching a 1931 01:42:10.239 --> 01:42:13.600 Roger Korman movie that thinks it's an Oscar movie. Yeah, 1932

01:42:13.800 --> 01:42:14.880 and I like Roger Korman. 1933 01:42:14.960 --> 01:42:17.800 But there's also a difference between being bad but still 1934 01:42:17.800 --> 01:42:18.479 being charming. 1935 01:42:18.680 --> 01:42:25.159 Yes, like Sam Raimi, Yeah, honestly, Yeah, Yeah, you're exactly correct. 1936 01:42:25.159 --> 01:42:27.239 I think there is a before death of Superman in 1937 01:42:27.239 --> 01:42:29.439 comic books, and there is an after exactly like Crisis. 1938 01:42:31.279 --> 01:42:37.479 And in some ways it might be the biggest and 1939 01:42:37.560 --> 01:42:41.319 also the most important Superman storyline of all time. 1940 01:42:41.640 --> 01:42:44.359 And there's certainly, if there's certainly an argument for have 1941 01:42:44.399 --> 01:42:45.720 we done best Superman stories? 1942 01:42:45.920 --> 01:42:49.199 Yeah, I don't know. I don't know anyways, So we're 1943 01:42:49.199 --> 01:42:50.640 gonna talk about this a little bit more. We have 1944 01:42:50.680 --> 01:42:55.039 a special guest comic book expert. We have the writer 1945 01:42:55.239 --> 01:42:58.680 of White Ash, Glarion, the Game, The Adept, and uh 1946 01:42:58.760 --> 01:43:04.119 the former's publisher of Scout Comics Overall Comicspan, Charlie Stickney, 1947 01:43:04.119 --> 01:43:09.720 here to talk about death of Superman. Charlie Stickney, Welcome 1948 01:43:10.239 --> 01:43:11.359 to Geek History Lesson. 1949 01:43:12.239 --> 01:43:13.800 Oh, thank you so much for having me on. 1950 01:43:14.960 --> 01:43:17.359 Well, I'm always it's always a pleasure to have a 1951 01:43:17.960 --> 01:43:20.119 you know, a lover of the comic book medium like 1952 01:43:20.159 --> 01:43:23.399 yourself onto the podcast. So, you know, we are deep 1953 01:43:23.479 --> 01:43:27.640 into Death of Superman and celebrating its thirtieth anniversary, and 1954 01:43:27.840 --> 01:43:30.439 I want to ask you, you know, in the nineteen nineties, 1955 01:43:30.520 --> 01:43:33.039 the early nineteen nineties, were you a big fan of 1956 01:43:33.079 --> 01:43:36.239 Superman or when, you know, when did you finally come 1957 01:43:36.279 --> 01:43:39.479 around to the big red and blue Well. 1958 01:43:39.640 --> 01:43:42.119 So, you know, I think with a lot of us, 1959 01:43:42.199 --> 01:43:47.439 our fandom goes in waves for different things, and for me, 1960 01:43:47.880 --> 01:43:51.439 Superman was one of the first superheroes that I kind 1961 01:43:51.479 --> 01:43:55.560 of fell for in that you know, my parents gave 1962 01:43:55.640 --> 01:43:59.319 me this hardcover called Superman from the thirties to the seventies. 1963 01:43:59.760 --> 01:44:01.119 I know if you've ever seen that, and I think 1964 01:44:01.119 --> 01:44:02.000 they did another one. 1965 01:44:03.039 --> 01:44:06.560 I think they've printed that recently. Actually, yeah, I think 1966 01:44:06.560 --> 01:44:07.760 the recently. It's great. 1967 01:44:07.800 --> 01:44:11.479 Yeah, it's like it's

got the first appearance of Batman 1968 01:44:11.560 --> 01:44:14.319 and Superman meeting each other and they're like on a 1969 01:44:14.399 --> 01:44:17.279 Kreuze cruise ship and like, you know, like they it 1970 01:44:17.359 --> 01:44:19.319 was just like it's really great because like you get 1971 01:44:19.319 --> 01:44:21.239 the sense of what the stories were like in the forties, 1972 01:44:21.279 --> 01:44:24.199 the fifties, the sixties, which then got all wacky. You 1973 01:44:24.239 --> 01:44:26.640 know that was like when Whacky Superman came out for 1974 01:44:26.680 --> 01:44:29.720 the first time, and then the seventies they started telling 1975 01:44:29.720 --> 01:44:32.760 these more hard hitting stories and you could tell a 1976 01:44:32.760 --> 01:44:37.239 little bit of like that that the nuclear threat had 1977 01:44:37.279 --> 01:44:39.359 sort of pervaded some of the stuff in terms of 1978 01:44:39.359 --> 01:44:42.520 some of the stories that were being told. But yeah, 1979 01:44:42.560 --> 01:44:44.520 like so for me, that was one of the first 1980 01:44:44.560 --> 01:44:49.680 introductions I had too superheroes. So I really like Superman 1981 01:44:50.319 --> 01:44:55.079 and then you know, I think my love for Superman 1982 01:44:55.239 --> 01:44:58.840 kind of waned and I wasn't really into comics. And 1983 01:44:58.880 --> 01:45:01.279 then when I came back to and this was like 1984 01:45:01.439 --> 01:45:04.239 I'm already like waxing and waning, and here I'm now 1985 01:45:04.279 --> 01:45:08.119 going to say, now I was eleven, you know, I 1986 01:45:08.159 --> 01:45:11.479 was like eleven, and I fell in love with comics again. 1987 01:45:11.760 --> 01:45:14.760 And at that point it was all Marvel and so 1988 01:45:14.880 --> 01:45:17.239 I was a big Spider Man fan and an X 1989 01:45:17.319 --> 01:45:21.960 Men fan. But eventually, like there's that I think I 1990 01:45:22.159 --> 01:45:25.399 like to call comics creep, where the longer you're in comics, 1991 01:45:25.439 --> 01:45:29.039 the more things you start incorporating from different companies, and 1992 01:45:29.079 --> 01:45:31.560 so you know, then it was okay, I'm going to 1993 01:45:31.640 --> 01:45:34.760 read this Batman book, and I think it was death 1994 01:45:34.800 --> 01:45:38.880 in the family that brought me back to Batman. I started, oh, okay, 1995 01:45:38.920 --> 01:45:41.720 I'll read this Batman series, and then you pull in 1996 01:45:41.720 --> 01:45:44.279 a Robin mini series and so you're like you're in 1997 01:45:44.319 --> 01:45:48.159 the universe. So I liked I had like a great 1998 01:45:48.239 --> 01:45:51.840 childhood love Superman, but I wasn't actively reading that many 1999 01:45:51.880 --> 01:45:55.680 superhero I mean Superman comics aside from the occasional events 2000 01:45:55.880 --> 01:45:58.800 like when he when he was going to propose to 2001 01:45:58.880 --> 01:46:01.880 Lois Lane in Action Comics. I think I started

reading 2002 01:46:01.920 --> 01:46:03.560 the book so I would be all caught off when 2003 01:46:03.560 --> 01:46:04.479 that event happened. 2004 01:46:05.439 --> 01:46:10.039 So that's very interesting because the the engagement is very 2005 01:46:10.159 --> 01:46:13.800 much integral to the reason why the death of Superman storyline, 2006 01:46:13.840 --> 01:46:15.760 and they did that as like a way to pull 2007 01:46:15.760 --> 01:46:18.039 in fans. So that worked on you, oh. 2008 01:46:18.079 --> 01:46:19.920 In one hundred percent worked on me because you know, 2009 01:46:20.000 --> 01:46:23.560 you have to remember at the time, this was pre internet, right, 2010 01:46:23.600 --> 01:46:27.000 and so where were people getting their comic book news from? 2011 01:46:27.359 --> 01:46:29.359 And I think there were there were two sources that 2012 01:46:29.359 --> 01:46:32.199 people who weren't directly working at companies were getting news 2013 01:46:32.199 --> 01:46:36.119 is from. And one was the comic book Comic Shop News, 2014 01:46:37.079 --> 01:46:39.039 which you can still see that's that's given out in 2015 01:46:39.079 --> 01:46:41.520 some stores, and that was kind of a leave behind 2016 01:46:42.279 --> 01:46:44.800 that was stuffed in your bag when you got your books, 2017 01:46:45.039 --> 01:46:47.600 and that was like four pages worth of content and 2018 01:46:47.600 --> 01:46:50.479 it would just basically be advertising things that were upcoming. 2019 01:46:50.920 --> 01:46:54.119 But the other thing that because I you know, when 2020 01:46:54.119 --> 01:46:57.000 I was in college, and this is when Death of 2021 01:46:57.039 --> 01:47:01.760 Superman came out, I was a freshman in college. At 2022 01:47:01.760 --> 01:47:03.920 that time, I was pretty sure I was going to 2023 01:47:03.960 --> 01:47:07.800 work in the comic book industry. And I was wrong 2024 01:47:07.880 --> 01:47:10.880 for the next fifteen years after that, but eventually I 2025 01:47:10.960 --> 01:47:14.159 proved myself right and came back to it. But when 2026 01:47:14.159 --> 01:47:15.920 I was when I was like a freshman in college, 2027 01:47:15.960 --> 01:47:17.600 I was like, I'm going to be in comics, so 2028 01:47:17.640 --> 01:47:20.640 I need to get the trade. And if you're in Hollywood, 2029 01:47:20.720 --> 01:47:23.640 you know, there's things like the Hollywood Reporter and Variety 2030 01:47:23.640 --> 01:47:25.840 that people have read forever, and that's what you know, 2031 01:47:26.000 --> 01:47:28.199 again before Internet, where they went to get their news, 2032 01:47:28.479 --> 01:47:30.680 and in comics there was this one publication called the 2033 01:47:30.760 --> 01:47:33.800 Comic Buyer's Guide, which was a weekly comic book newspaper 2034 01:47:34.159 --> 01:47:37.199 that was around fifty two pages long that was filled 2035 01:47:37.279 --> 01:47:42.159 with articles and interviews with creators and with publishers about 2036 01:47:42.159 --> 01:47:45.840 their upcoming events. So I had been tracking the Death 2037 01:47:45.920 --> 01:47:49.920 of Superman event that was upcoming for a good two months, 2038 01:47:50.439 --> 01:47:53.880 and I was very excited about that, about it hitting 2039 01:47:53.960 --> 01:47:56.279 hitting these stores, and yeah, it was one hundred percent 2040 01:47:56.399 --> 01:47:58.880 like this is going to be an event, this is 2041 01:48:00.000 --> 01:48:01.640 you know, it got me excited and like that. When 2042 01:48:01.760 --> 01:48:03.720 Superman was going to propose, I think I bought the 2043 01:48:03.720 --> 01:48:05.840 three issues up to the proposal and the like the 2044 01:48:05.840 --> 01:48:07.920 two issues afterwards, and then I tapered off and I 2045 01:48:07.960 --> 01:48:10.760 was like, I got one hundred other comics. I'm gying. 2046 01:48:10.760 --> 01:48:12.880 I don't know if I'm still interested to see where 2047 01:48:12.880 --> 01:48:15.600 the Superman story goes, but with the death of Superman, 2048 01:48:16.000 --> 01:48:18.520 I definitely wanted to be part of that and see 2049 01:48:18.520 --> 01:48:19.399 what was going to happen. 2050 01:48:20.479 --> 01:48:23.640 What do you remember about the build up to Death 2051 01:48:23.640 --> 01:48:26.239 of Superman? Do you have any specific memories, because I 2052 01:48:26.319 --> 01:48:28.880 for I myself, and I said this earlier in the 2053 01:48:28.880 --> 01:48:34.239 podcast that I remember there being a newspaper articles about this, 2054 01:48:34.279 --> 01:48:38.600 and I remember there being local television news articles about 2055 01:48:38.640 --> 01:48:43.399 the death of Superman. The traditional media really believe that 2056 01:48:43.800 --> 01:48:46.760 he was going to be dead dead, and I think 2057 01:48:46.840 --> 01:48:49.399 the general public believed that as well, which is the 2058 01:48:49.439 --> 01:48:52.039 reason why the issues sold through Gangbuster. So I wanted 2059 01:48:52.039 --> 01:48:55.319 to know as somebody who you know, you were dabbling 2060 01:48:55.319 --> 01:48:57.199 a toe in the comic industry, as you said, you 2061 01:48:57.199 --> 01:48:59.000 were hoping to work in the comic industry when this 2062 01:48:59.199 --> 01:49:03.119 event happened. What what do you remember of this build up? 2063 01:49:03.319 --> 01:49:07.720 And you know, was it the buzz of you know 2064 01:49:07.800 --> 01:49:08.159 the era? 2065 01:49:09.560 --> 01:49:13.319 Yeah, it was definitely one of the buzzes of the era. Uh. 2066 01:49:14.760 --> 01:49:18.119 I think I'm trying to remember in the chronology whether yea, 2067 01:49:18.239 --> 01:49:21.039 so Spider Man one had come out a couple of 2068 01:49:21.079 --> 01:49:25.239 years earlier, which is right right, right, yeah, and then 2069 01:49:25.640 --> 01:49:29.600 Spawn I think had also come out before this, So 2070 01:49:29.680 --> 01:49:31.800 like there had been a couple of big, big

things, 2071 01:49:31.800 --> 01:49:34.159 and I think some of DC's thunder was going away 2072 01:49:34.239 --> 01:49:37.439 and Superman, you know, I think he's a character that's 2073 01:49:37.479 --> 01:49:41.760 hard to write well, and there's there's too many iterations 2074 01:49:41.800 --> 01:49:43.920 of him that, you know, people see it as boring 2075 01:49:44.000 --> 01:49:46.079 or not interesting. It's the same problem that Captain America 2076 01:49:46.119 --> 01:49:48.399 has had in some ways that you know, the characters 2077 01:49:48.439 --> 01:49:51.439 don't seem inherently flawed enough, and so you have to 2078 01:49:51.439 --> 01:49:53.199 be a really good writer to be able to handle that. 2079 01:49:53.840 --> 01:49:56.079 But for me, as someone getting into this, I never 2080 01:49:56.079 --> 01:49:59.319 thought he was going to die forever, right. I mean, 2081 01:50:00.079 --> 01:50:01.800 I thought it was going to be a big event 2082 01:50:01.880 --> 01:50:06.840 book that I that I wanted to get because I 2083 01:50:06.920 --> 01:50:09.680 knew that the collector's market was going to go crazy 2084 01:50:09.720 --> 01:50:13.079 for it, and so it was something that I was tracking. 2085 01:50:13.640 --> 01:50:16.079 But I was also, you know, a fan of stories, 2086 01:50:16.079 --> 01:50:18.079 so I wanted to see where it was going to go. 2087 01:50:18.159 --> 01:50:19.760 So I had bought like the one or two issues 2088 01:50:19.800 --> 01:50:23.199 again leading up to that, and I knew it was coming. 2089 01:50:23.560 --> 01:50:25.520 I figured, you know, at some point he was going 2090 01:50:25.600 --> 01:50:28.239 to come back, because you know, at that time, there 2091 01:50:28.239 --> 01:50:31.479 were two deaths that mattered. It was Captain Marvel and 2092 01:50:31.520 --> 01:50:35.960 Bucky and everyone else came back and you never thought 2093 01:50:35.960 --> 01:50:37.880 those two were going to come back. 2094 01:50:37.920 --> 01:50:39.960 But I used to always say it was Angle Ben. 2095 01:50:40.000 --> 01:50:43.319 It was it was it was Uncle Ben and Bucky. Okay, yeah, 2096 01:50:43.560 --> 01:50:45.800 I never slipped Captain Marble on there. That's very funny. 2097 01:50:46.199 --> 01:50:48.920 Yeah, it was different eras right of collecting. 2098 01:50:49.000 --> 01:50:52.800 Yeah, so you so you did buy the issue, Well, 2099 01:50:54.399 --> 01:50:57.199 oh okay, here we go. The t comes out. 2100 01:50:58.119 --> 01:51:03.760 This was the problem was. I think we as consumers 2101 01:51:03.800 --> 01:51:07.560 of the culture of comic books today are so much 2102 01:51:07.560 --> 01:51:11.960 more informed about how things work, and like New Comic 2103 01:51:12.000 --> 01:51:14.680 book Day is a thing that we all know. We 2104 01:51:14.800 --> 01:51:17.159 know that that's Wednesday, That's when the comics are put 2105 01:51:17.199 --> 01:51:21.760 on the shelves, right, And as much as I styled 2106 01:51:21.760 --> 01:51:24.680 myself as an aficionado of someone who understood the business 2107 01:51:24.680 --> 01:51:27.920 of comics, I didn't know that, like New Comic Book 2108 01:51:27.960 --> 01:51:31.920 Day was Wednesday, so I knew the week it was 2109 01:51:31.960 --> 01:51:35.560 coming out, and I think I had, you know, I 2110 01:51:35.880 --> 01:51:37.800 had the local shop because again, I was in college, 2111 01:51:37.800 --> 01:51:39.319 and when you're in college, you're in a little bit 2112 01:51:39.319 --> 01:51:42.720 of a vacuum, and so I wasn't seeing the mainstream. 2113 01:51:42.800 --> 01:51:45.039 I wasn't seeing any media. Like the only reason I 2114 01:51:45.119 --> 01:51:47.359 knew about it was because my Comic Buyer's Guide and 2115 01:51:47.399 --> 01:51:50.760 I had been planning for months. But I knew I 2116 01:51:50.840 --> 01:51:52.760 needed to get there early on the day or I 2117 01:51:52.800 --> 01:51:55.439 was going to sell out. So I walked into the store, 2118 01:51:56.439 --> 01:51:59.520 you know, as it opened that morning, and I'm looking 2119 01:51:59.560 --> 01:52:02.319 around and I'm like, I'm not seeing it. I'm not 2120 01:52:02.399 --> 01:52:04.800 seeing it, and you know, and I went This was 2121 01:52:04.880 --> 01:52:09.279 Iron Vick's Comics in Poughkeepson, New York. And I went 2122 01:52:09.319 --> 01:52:11.840 to Iron Vic and I was like, Vic, you know, 2123 01:52:11.920 --> 01:52:15.000 where's the Death of Superman. He's like, we're sold out. Like, 2124 01:52:15.039 --> 01:52:17.760 what do you mean You're sold out? And he's like, 2125 01:52:18.119 --> 01:52:23.680 it came out yesterday and you missed. It was totally 2126 01:52:23.720 --> 01:52:30.119 that and like I was crushed right because it wasn't 2127 01:52:30.319 --> 01:52:33.680 It wasn't just oh I missed out on this hot thing. 2128 01:52:34.319 --> 01:52:37.119 It was that sense that you knew what was going 2129 01:52:37.159 --> 01:52:40.680 on ahead of other people because you were informed. You 2130 01:52:40.680 --> 01:52:43.760 were in the know, that I was this educated comic 2131 01:52:43.840 --> 01:52:47.319 book collector, and all of that came crashing down because 2132 01:52:47.359 --> 01:52:49.520 I didn't know the day that the book was released 2133 01:52:49.560 --> 01:52:52.960 on and so like there was this disappointment in myself 2134 01:52:54.000 --> 01:52:57.159 that somehow I had screwed this thing up in a 2135 01:52:57.239 --> 01:53:00.439 way that you know, the lesson of say Spider and 2136 01:53:00.439 --> 01:53:02.439 a Man number one in the Bags and all of 2137 01:53:02.479 --> 01:53:06.079 that should have have taught me was to be really 2138 01:53:06.119 --> 01:53:08.720 prepared for this because because I had been there for that. 2139 01:53:08.840 --> 01:53:11.359 But even that, like I had pre ordered. I think 2140 01:53:11.359 --> 01:53:14.399 it was like the various different versions of the Spider 2141 01:53:14.439

--> 01:53:16.760 Man Bag, and a couple of them never showed up 2142 01:53:17.000 --> 01:53:17.800 because there was just. 2143 01:53:17.720 --> 01:53:20.520 So when you when you say that school even myself, 2144 01:53:20.560 --> 01:53:22.640 I'm not familiar with this. So you're talking about so 2145 01:53:22.840 --> 01:53:26.399 when Tom McFarland, when he rebooted and relaunched Spider Man 2146 01:53:26.439 --> 01:53:29.239 in the early ninety Spider Man number one. Uh they 2147 01:53:29.239 --> 01:53:31.680 did they do like a collector's version of it in 2148 01:53:31.319 --> 01:53:33.039 a in a clear bag or something like that. 2149 01:53:33.039 --> 01:53:36.800 Where are your collector versions in a bag? There was 2150 01:53:36.840 --> 01:53:38.960 the like it was all I'm trying to think of 2151 01:53:38.960 --> 01:53:40.960 whether they had a version that wasn't in a bag. 2152 01:53:41.760 --> 01:53:44.880 I think like they had these like there was this 2153 01:53:44.920 --> 01:53:46.680 is the horrible things, like right, they had that those 2154 01:53:46.760 --> 01:53:49.359 bad poly bags that they would put over these books 2155 01:53:49.720 --> 01:53:53.720 which were not you know, archival. So what do you do? 2156 01:53:53.720 --> 01:53:55.880 Do you remove it and make it non mintor to 2157 01:53:56.000 --> 01:53:59.479 leave it in this crappy bag to keep, you know, 2158 01:53:59.479 --> 01:54:01.800 for your your collection. But yeah, I wanted to manage. 2159 01:54:01.840 --> 01:54:05.479 Yeah, I wanted to because yeah, oh sorry, go ahead. 2160 01:54:06.119 --> 01:54:08.800 Yeah, So like I had, I had lived through that 2161 01:54:08.920 --> 01:54:11.439 kind of craziness, and there really was a craziness for 2162 01:54:11.520 --> 01:54:14.079 both Like there was there was a black addition and 2163 01:54:14.119 --> 01:54:18.760 then there was the regular red and green addition of 2164 01:54:18.880 --> 01:54:19.920 that first issue. 2165 01:54:21.199 --> 01:54:22.960 Well, and that's I wanted to bring that up because 2166 01:54:23.000 --> 01:54:26.600 Death of Superman the same way has it also had 2167 01:54:27.399 --> 01:54:31.319 multi poly bagged versions. There was the regular version that 2168 01:54:31.560 --> 01:54:33.800 just had the cape you know, torn apart on the 2169 01:54:33.840 --> 01:54:39.560 stick they had the poly bagged red shield version and 2170 01:54:39.600 --> 01:54:43.720 then they had the platinum poly bagged version as well, 2171 01:54:44.279 --> 01:54:47.600 which when you opened that one up it was a 2172 01:54:47.640 --> 01:54:50.479 silver cover. And I I'm not certain, but I think 2173 01:54:50.520 --> 01:54:53.199 both the poly bagged versions came with a little armband 2174 01:54:53.199 --> 01:54:54.720 that you could have like a little Superman shields, so 2175 01:54:54.760 --> 01:54:56.640 you could act like you went to Superman's funeral as well. 2176 01:54:57.960 --> 01:54:59.600 And then I I, you know,

and I didn't know 2177 01:54:59.680 --> 01:55:02.600 Spider into it as well, but I would remark that 2178 01:55:02.680 --> 01:55:05.479 I think Death the Superman and these multi poly bags 2179 01:55:06.000 --> 01:55:11.159 really kicked off the insane nature of the speculator and 2180 01:55:11.279 --> 01:55:16.159 variant you know, cover market of the nineties. So besides 2181 01:55:16.199 --> 01:55:17.840 the collecting of it all, I want to you know, 2182 01:55:18.039 --> 01:55:20.039 of course, you eventually got an issue or you got 2183 01:55:20.039 --> 01:55:21.000 a trade and you read it later. 2184 01:55:21.119 --> 01:55:24.760 Yes, I got to the second print of it after Yeah. 2185 01:55:24.680 --> 01:55:28.239 So ah man sorcon right of course, what parts of 2186 01:55:28.279 --> 01:55:32.760 the story do you think really work and what parts 2187 01:55:32.760 --> 01:55:36.199 of the story do you think have not aged so well? 2188 01:55:38.000 --> 01:55:39.840 Well? I think I think the part that works the 2189 01:55:39.840 --> 01:55:44.479 best was there was this mystery of it wasn't like 2190 01:55:44.560 --> 01:55:47.760 the death as much as the resurrection that I found interesting, 2191 01:55:48.800 --> 01:55:50.039 and I don't know if we want to get into 2192 01:55:50.079 --> 01:55:51.279 the resurrection. 2193 01:55:51.319 --> 01:55:54.960 Oh to me, to me, I consider death of Superman, 2194 01:55:55.680 --> 01:55:58.840 Funeral for a friend, Reign of Superman, and then the return, 2195 01:55:58.960 --> 01:56:02.880 Like to me, they're all really one story, right right, yeah, 2196 01:56:02.920 --> 01:56:04.960 So so please, so please talk about all of it. 2197 01:56:05.560 --> 01:56:09.079 Because like I think, you know, the event, like the 2198 01:56:09.199 --> 01:56:12.800 death was to me that the death wasn't as memorable 2199 01:56:12.960 --> 01:56:15.920 as what came afterwards. And I think like if you 2200 01:56:15.920 --> 01:56:17.239 you know, if you go agree with that, like that 2201 01:56:17.359 --> 01:56:20.399 was what they were thinking about, Like what's the interesting 2202 01:56:20.439 --> 01:56:23.520 story here? Is the reaction to the of the world 2203 01:56:24.079 --> 01:56:27.000 to what happens when the most powerful superhero dies, right, 2204 01:56:27.760 --> 01:56:30.199 and you know, they tracked back from that idea to 2205 01:56:30.319 --> 01:56:32.439 create the death. So the death was just this. 2206 01:56:32.439 --> 01:56:36.119 Big battle and a lot of punching. 2207 01:56:36.800 --> 01:56:38.960 Yeah, it's a lot of punching. It's a lot of battling, 2208 01:56:39.079 --> 01:56:41.760 And that's the kind of thing that there's just not 2209 01:56:41.800 --> 01:56:45.840 a lot of story there. And I think there's the 2210 01:56:45.920 --> 01:56:51.399 visceral reaction of seeing Superman die that has an impact, 2211 01:56:51.920 --> 01:56:54.000 but aside from that, like that, the rest of it 2212 01:56:54.079 -->

01:56:57.319 isn't really as exciting to me. What I think works 2213 01:56:57.399 --> 01:57:01.720 best is you know it's the host, you know, it's 2214 01:57:01.720 --> 01:57:03.800 the fallout from it, but it's also the mystery that 2215 01:57:03.840 --> 01:57:06.520 they started seeding right with the return of the four 2216 01:57:06.560 --> 01:57:11.960 different Superman, and because each of them are originally you 2217 01:57:12.039 --> 01:57:15.199 thought maybe had a chance to be Superman coming back, 2218 01:57:16.880 --> 01:57:19.359 that mystery was really interesting, and it also made you 2219 01:57:19.439 --> 01:57:21.239 buy all four series. 2220 01:57:21.279 --> 01:57:23.680 Which of the four of the Reign of the Superman 2221 01:57:23.880 --> 01:57:27.720 were your favorite? Which of those four everybody has a favorite? 2222 01:57:27.760 --> 01:57:29.920 And I think it tells a lot about. 2223 01:57:29.640 --> 01:57:35.199 You, I so, you know, I think part of it 2224 01:57:35.279 --> 01:57:37.600 is I was collecting it all out of obligation because 2225 01:57:37.640 --> 01:57:42.159 I wanted to see where it went. I think of 2226 01:57:42.239 --> 01:57:48.479 those I liked the Superboy story the best, just because 2227 01:57:48.520 --> 01:57:53.319 it felt a little bit fresher. And I think, if 2228 01:57:53.359 --> 01:57:56.600 I remember correctly, because I resisted going back to read 2229 01:57:56.640 --> 01:58:00.680 the issues because I still have them all and I 2230 01:58:00.800 --> 01:58:03.720 read so just you know, I read from a couple 2231 01:58:03.800 --> 01:58:06.439 of issues before all the way up all four of 2232 01:58:06.479 --> 01:58:10.159 those different series until he came back. And I remember 2233 01:58:10.199 --> 01:58:12.199 at the end of that there was some big fallout 2234 01:58:12.239 --> 01:58:14.319 with Green Lantern, right. 2235 01:58:15.119 --> 01:58:18.960 Yes, Cyborg Superman destroys co City, which goes on to 2236 01:58:19.039 --> 01:58:22.359 turn how Jordan into the villain Parallax, which leads to 2237 01:58:22.399 --> 01:58:23.960 the creation of Kyle Rayner. 2238 01:58:24.279 --> 01:58:26.439 Right right, right right, So like that all of that, 2239 01:58:27.039 --> 01:58:29.760 and then I think I checked out after that because 2240 01:58:30.079 --> 01:58:33.399 I didn't want to read that many titles and I 2241 01:58:33.439 --> 01:58:35.319 was trying to pare it down from like the sixty 2242 01:58:35.359 --> 01:58:37.319 I was collecting because I was in college, and I 2243 01:58:37.319 --> 01:58:39.600 think when you're in college, you start you start becoming 2244 01:58:39.600 --> 01:58:42.000 more picky. When I was in high school, I could 2245 01:58:42.000 --> 01:58:45.760 devote all my disposable income to comics and buy as 2246 01:58:45.800 --> 01:58:48.560 many as possible, But in collegy, like I want to 2247 01:58:48.600 --> 01:58:51.159 be able to eat because I'm now also paying for 2248 01:58:51.199 --> 01:58:53.920 those things. And at that point, I was like the 2249 01:58:54.000 --> 01:58:59.039 DC I transitioned to shortly thereafter with Sandman, and I 2250 01:58:59.039 --> 01:59:03.479 was looking at that, looking at dark Horse started having 2251 01:59:03.520 --> 01:59:06.399 their line with hell Boy and with sin City, and 2252 01:59:06.439 --> 01:59:10.680 so I was I was getting edgier. Do you think it? 2253 01:59:11.439 --> 01:59:16.159 Do you think do you think it's possible in the 2254 01:59:16.199 --> 01:59:20.119 modern comic book market or even in the far future. 2255 01:59:21.359 --> 01:59:25.000 Do you think it's even possible that any comic book 2256 01:59:25.680 --> 01:59:30.640 publisher could repeat this success of the Death of Superman 2257 01:59:30.680 --> 01:59:32.840 in some way, because like they did this as a 2258 01:59:32.880 --> 01:59:35.880 sales stunt and Now, part of that was, you know, 2259 01:59:36.039 --> 01:59:39.720 massaged by they had to connect to Lois and Clark 2260 01:59:39.760 --> 01:59:41.960 the adventure Superman, which was also doing a wedding, so 2261 01:59:41.960 --> 01:59:44.439 they did a death instead of a wedding. But do 2262 01:59:44.520 --> 01:59:48.399 you think, like, could Marvel or could DC or even 2263 01:59:48.439 --> 01:59:51.079 Image or Boom pull this off in the future, like 2264 01:59:51.119 --> 01:59:56.880 a death an event that captures so many people outside 2265 01:59:56.920 --> 01:59:57.840 of comic books. 2266 01:59:58.680 --> 02:00:02.079 I don't think so for a couple of reasons. First 2267 02:00:02.119 --> 02:00:10.520 of all, geek, I think culture has shifted in a 2268 02:00:10.560 --> 02:00:15.640 way that it's more inclusive now, and so what was 2269 02:00:15.640 --> 02:00:18.760 happening in the comic industry was secular, and it was 2270 02:00:18.800 --> 02:00:23.319 this mysterious world, right And when people started hearing that 2271 02:00:23.359 --> 02:00:26.680 the death of Superman was happening, that became a national 2272 02:00:26.680 --> 02:00:29.920 news story because no one was plugged in to what 2273 02:00:29.960 --> 02:00:32.560 Superman was doing, right, Like for a lot of adults, 2274 02:00:32.560 --> 02:00:34.079 I think it was just like, oh, it is that 2275 02:00:34.079 --> 02:00:36.960 that newspaper thing from the thirties or the forties, or 2276 02:00:37.000 --> 02:00:39.640 I watched these cartoons, or even there was that Christopher 2277 02:00:39.720 --> 02:00:43.119 Reeve movie twenty years earlier that I loved, and so 2278 02:00:43.520 --> 02:00:45.960 it was nostalgia and they wanted to see and they 2279 02:00:46.000 --> 02:00:49.359 sort of tapped in whereas now, you know, like the 2280 02:00:49.479 --> 02:00:54.119 DC universe is just like comics are everywhere, so I 2281 02:00:54.159 --> 02:00:57.840 don't think you get that same build up from you know, 2282 02:00:58.359 --> 02:01:00.680 you know, look at the big deaths that

have happened 2283 02:01:00.720 --> 02:01:05.079 in the Marvel movies, right, you know, people leak those 2284 02:01:05.159 --> 02:01:07.800 and there are millions of people who are. 2285 02:01:08.039 --> 02:01:09.520 Their autum before you even see the movie. 2286 02:01:09.840 --> 02:01:11.920 Yeah, right, right, right, Like like I'm going to give 2287 02:01:11.920 --> 02:01:15.880 a spoiler for Avengers Endgame, so you know, if you 2288 02:01:16.000 --> 02:01:17.840 if any of your listeners it's not seeing that. 2289 02:01:18.600 --> 02:01:22.279 It's a movie from twenty nineteen, I think you're fine, Okay, okay, 2290 02:01:21.640 --> 02:01:24.119 But when I appreciate the spoiler. 2291 02:01:23.800 --> 02:01:29.439 Wring, you know, when Tony Stark dies, right, what like thanks, 2292 02:01:29.680 --> 02:01:32.560 I haven't seen it yet, but you know what I mean, 2293 02:01:32.600 --> 02:01:35.479 it's like like like there was no like the Ironman 2294 02:01:35.560 --> 02:01:38.159 at that point had become the biggest comic book character 2295 02:01:38.439 --> 02:01:40.399 arguably in pop culture. 2296 02:01:41.119 --> 02:01:44.800 M hmm, right, and was there a huge outcry? Was 2297 02:01:44.840 --> 02:01:48.880 there all this interest? And and there's not the same interest. 2298 02:01:49.000 --> 02:01:50.760 You know, as much as I love all these movies, 2299 02:01:50.800 --> 02:01:54.479 they're not pushing people back to comic books. So they're 2300 02:01:54.520 --> 02:01:58.680 not and I think mainstream media right now wouldn't care 2301 02:01:58.800 --> 02:02:03.239 what comics are doing, because you know, the movies are happening, 2302 02:02:03.960 --> 02:02:06.840 and if the movies can't generate that kind of bump, 2303 02:02:07.279 --> 02:02:09.960 you know, like the death of iron Man in the movies, 2304 02:02:10.000 --> 02:02:13.199 like stories aren't being written by that, you know, if 2305 02:02:13.199 --> 02:02:16.000 that's not driving people in to hit the comic book shop, 2306 02:02:16.399 --> 02:02:18.680 I don't think like in the comics if iron Man died, 2307 02:02:18.720 --> 02:02:19.560 anyone would care. 2308 02:02:20.920 --> 02:02:23.479 M that's fair, and he's already died like two or 2309 02:02:23.479 --> 02:02:26.000 three times, I think even the last twenty years. There 2310 02:02:26.039 --> 02:02:29.399 you go, what do you think if you were to 2311 02:02:29.800 --> 02:02:32.520 think about it, what would you say is the legacy 2312 02:02:33.159 --> 02:02:36.479 of the death of Superman event thirty years later? 2313 02:02:39.279 --> 02:02:43.760 Well, I mean, I think the biggest thing that sadly 2314 02:02:44.119 --> 02:02:50.920 was happening in the early nineties was the need to 2315 02:02:51.039 --> 02:02:57.159 do these event series right, And I think the death 2316 02:02:57.199 --> 02:03:00.319 of Superman pushed the comic book market into a place 2317 02:03:01.000 --> 02:03:03.920 where it felt like you had to do two

or 2318 02:03:03.920 --> 02:03:07.479 three of these or at least one every year for 2319 02:03:07.600 --> 02:03:10.720 any of your major lines. And you know, like Superman 2320 02:03:10.760 --> 02:03:13.159 started doing this, Batman was obviously doing it with the 2321 02:03:13.159 --> 02:03:16.680 Batman families, spider Man was doing it with the Spider 2322 02:03:16.720 --> 02:03:18.880 Man titles. X Men was starting to do it the Avengers, 2323 02:03:18.920 --> 02:03:21.640 and so I think that kind of changed the kind 2324 02:03:21.640 --> 02:03:25.760 of storytelling that was being done, both in a good 2325 02:03:25.800 --> 02:03:28.720 and a bad way, because they saw the power of 2326 02:03:28.760 --> 02:03:31.279 an event to draw in new readers. They saw the 2327 02:03:31.319 --> 02:03:34.279 way to tell a story across multiple titles as a 2328 02:03:34.319 --> 02:03:36.960 way to cross pollinate and bring the sales up on 2329 02:03:37.039 --> 02:03:41.279 all of those different titles. But I think people got fatigue, 2330 02:03:42.880 --> 02:03:46.720 and I'm not going to say that it began pushing 2331 02:03:46.760 --> 02:03:50.079 the comic book industry down a dark place. But the 2332 02:03:50.159 --> 02:03:52.640 more of these deaths also you have I mean between 2333 02:03:52.720 --> 02:03:57.800 like once Superman could die and come back, why are 2334 02:03:57.800 --> 02:03:59.199 you going to believe any character? 2335 02:04:00.079 --> 02:04:03.520 Oh yeah, the first, right, the first super of all time? Like, yeah, 2336 02:04:03.560 --> 02:04:05.760 you can't. You can't beat him. You can't. You can't 2337 02:04:05.800 --> 02:04:07.680 beat him, no matter or how popular, Like you said, 2338 02:04:07.680 --> 02:04:09.239 like a character like iron Man is now you just 2339 02:04:09.279 --> 02:04:09.920 can't do it. 2340 02:04:10.319 --> 02:04:13.720 Right. But but also like I think it's once you 2341 02:04:13.800 --> 02:04:18.880 tell a reader that that if you're dead, you're not 2342 02:04:19.039 --> 02:04:21.640 you know that that doesn't mean you're really dead, Why 2343 02:04:21.640 --> 02:04:24.960 do we care about any death after that? Right? And 2344 02:04:25.000 --> 02:04:28.479 I think comics readers, like the hardcore ones for the 2345 02:04:28.520 --> 02:04:31.960 longest time have always been like, oh Wolverine's dead. Sure 2346 02:04:32.000 --> 02:04:34.119 he's dead, right, Like, you're not going to kill off 2347 02:04:34.399 --> 02:04:38.000 your biggest character. Oh Batman's back is broken, he's never 2348 02:04:38.039 --> 02:04:40.119 going to get better, and you know that's the end 2349 02:04:40.159 --> 02:04:44.199 of Batman. No, because that's how DC, that's how Marvel. 2350 02:04:44.239 --> 02:04:45.960 They're making their money. They're not going to kill off 2351 02:04:45.960 --> 02:04:48.640 their money makers. And I think, you know, it's the 2352 02:04:48.920 --> 02:04:52.800 fool me once kind of attitude. And

I think that 2353 02:04:52.880 --> 02:04:57.079 also did that, so I think, you know, so those 2354 02:04:57.079 --> 02:04:59.840 those are two bad things, I guess in terms of 2355 02:04:59.840 --> 02:05:04.279 the legacy of Superman in terms of like really pushing 2356 02:05:04.279 --> 02:05:07.079 event series and making it so no one ever believed 2357 02:05:07.720 --> 02:05:11.840 in the death of a character anymore. Just trying to 2358 02:05:11.840 --> 02:05:14.600 think if there's any good legacy that I would take 2359 02:05:14.680 --> 02:05:18.119 out of it. Maybe it brought more attention to the 2360 02:05:18.119 --> 02:05:21.359 comic industry. Hopefully it brought in some new readers that 2361 02:05:21.520 --> 02:05:24.520 were young at the time, that got them interested in comics, 2362 02:05:25.319 --> 02:05:27.279 because I think that's that's the hardest thing that's facing 2363 02:05:27.319 --> 02:05:31.039 the comic industry right now, is bringing in new readers, 2364 02:05:31.439 --> 02:05:34.720 especially with characters that have been around for at this point. 2365 02:05:34.800 --> 02:05:36.960 What I mean, the Superman was in the nineteen forties, 2366 02:05:37.000 --> 02:05:40.800 so we're pushing eighty years now, nineteen twenty nine. 2367 02:05:41.920 --> 02:05:45.479 I yeah, he's this is I think next year is 2368 02:05:45.520 --> 02:05:49.880 going to be his eighty fifth anniversary, So you know, 2369 02:05:49.920 --> 02:05:52.319 it's funny. I would I make that same argument that 2370 02:05:52.359 --> 02:05:54.800 Death of Superman. I think that is the biggest legacy 2371 02:05:54.840 --> 02:05:56.800 is that I think it might be one of the 2372 02:05:56.920 --> 02:06:02.079 last events or stories of any kind to bring outsiders 2373 02:06:02.560 --> 02:06:06.119 in to real like a huge swath of outsiders. Because 2374 02:06:06.880 --> 02:06:08.880 in the many interviews with Dan Jerones that I did 2375 02:06:08.960 --> 02:06:11.960 over my course of working at DC Comics, the thing 2376 02:06:12.000 --> 02:06:14.279 that he would always tell me was he would say, 2377 02:06:14.279 --> 02:06:17.479 I would always get Death of Superman or Superman seventy five, 2378 02:06:17.520 --> 02:06:20.399 that that issue that he drew, and they would hand 2379 02:06:20.399 --> 02:06:22.520 it to him to get him signed, and they would say, 2380 02:06:22.560 --> 02:06:26.000 this was my first comic book. Yeah, And he was like, 2381 02:06:26.000 --> 02:06:28.439 and he was like, it would be hundreds of people, 2382 02:06:29.640 --> 02:06:32.000 you know, and you're I think you're very right on 2383 02:06:32.039 --> 02:06:34.720 that there are I think we don't have many events 2384 02:06:34.760 --> 02:06:37.359 like that anymore. I think comics of niche and niche 2385 02:06:37.359 --> 02:06:38.760 and niche even even more. 2386 02:06:39.560 --> 02:06:42.000 I would say the closest thing in terms of an 2387 02:06:42.000 --> 02:06:45.079 event to

bring people in would be something like when 2388 02:06:45.119 --> 02:06:49.960 you have a celebrity like Keanu Reeves doing Berserker right 2389 02:06:50.520 --> 02:06:52.920 and he's able to. I mean, like not that there 2390 02:06:52.960 --> 02:06:54.880 was I didn't even know what the story is there 2391 02:06:54.960 --> 02:06:57.720 with Berserker, but I know that a lot of people 2392 02:06:57.720 --> 02:07:01.720 who are Piano fans came to because of that, and 2393 02:07:01.760 --> 02:07:04.279 hopefully they're going to get hooked and go forward. But yeah, 2394 02:07:04.319 --> 02:07:07.479 it's really hard to bring in new readers right now, 2395 02:07:07.520 --> 02:07:09.760 who aren't people who are fans of comics. 2396 02:07:10.479 --> 02:07:14.359 Well, speaking of new readers, we have lots of people 2397 02:07:14.359 --> 02:07:17.199 to listen to this podcast that are fans of comics. 2398 02:07:17.239 --> 02:07:19.560 And you have a kick ass comic out now called 2399 02:07:19.600 --> 02:07:22.279 The Game. Can you please tell our listeners about it? 2400 02:07:22.640 --> 02:07:24.439 Sure? Well. The quick pitch I like to use is, 2401 02:07:24.520 --> 02:07:27.520 imagine if Sam from Quantum Leap the original series jumped 2402 02:07:27.520 --> 02:07:30.520 into the body of the Highlander and I had no 2403 02:07:30.640 --> 02:07:34.399 idea why this group of individuals was after him. The 2404 02:07:34.680 --> 02:07:37.800 slightly longer pitches, it's about a man named Eli Tanner 2405 02:07:38.600 --> 02:07:41.000 who turns thirty and all of a sudden starts seeing 2406 02:07:41.079 --> 02:07:44.239 this scoreboard that's tracking everything that he does. Like no 2407 02:07:44.279 --> 02:07:46.319 one else can see this score book for him, but 2408 02:07:46.439 --> 02:07:49.159 it's tracking everything he does in life from you whether 2409 02:07:49.199 --> 02:07:51.439 he has coffee in the morning, to whether he helps 2410 02:07:51.439 --> 02:07:54.560 someone cross the street, and what seems like this cruel, 2411 02:07:54.800 --> 02:07:57.680 cosmic joke that's just judging every action that he does, 2412 02:07:58.000 --> 02:08:01.159 turns out to be that he people have mistaken him 2413 02:08:01.199 --> 02:08:03.600 for player number three in a game that's going on 2414 02:08:03.680 --> 02:08:06.159 for thousands of years, and he needs to quickly find 2415 02:08:06.199 --> 02:08:10.039 out what's going on before things go para shaped. So 2416 02:08:10.079 --> 02:08:14.800 that's love. I love stories that people all of a 2417 02:08:14.840 --> 02:08:17.880 sudden find themselves in situations and then they just kind 2418 02:08:17.920 --> 02:08:21.239 of have to quickly think on their feet to get 2419 02:08:21.239 --> 02:08:24.359 themselves out of it, and in doing so, they start 2420 02:08:24.439 --> 02:08:26.880 uncovering this bigger and bigger world that they never realized 2421 02:08:26.880 --> 02:08:28.560 that they were a part of.

But of course they 2422 02:08:28.560 --> 02:08:29.119 were all. 2423 02:08:29.000 --> 02:08:32.720 Along, and you just had a very successful kickstar campaign 2424 02:08:33.399 --> 02:08:36.520 for the game. But him listeners still pre order the 2425 02:08:36.520 --> 02:08:38.479 book and still pick up a copy. 2426 02:08:38.880 --> 02:08:43.319 Yeah, if you go to our Kickstarter page for the game, 2427 02:08:43.439 --> 02:08:46.159 and I can give you the link for that, there 2428 02:08:46.159 --> 02:08:48.439 will be a pre order link to the game and 2429 02:08:48.479 --> 02:08:51.119 to everything else I do through my white Ash Comics imprint, 2430 02:08:51.199 --> 02:08:55.159 including white Ash Larian, How I Slip my Way through 2431 02:08:55.159 --> 02:08:59.159 College and other tales from Freshman Year and be. 2432 02:08:59.119 --> 02:09:02.359 Adept and listeners. We will have a link to that 2433 02:09:02.520 --> 02:09:06.000 in the episode notes. Go check out all of those comics. 2434 02:09:06.079 --> 02:09:09.520 They are excellent. Charlie, thank you so much for talking 2435 02:09:09.520 --> 02:09:11.560 about the death of Superman with us on Gee hitche Lesson. 2436 02:09:11.560 --> 02:09:13.119 I can't wait to talk about the death of the 2437 02:09:13.159 --> 02:09:16.000 Game or the death of White Ash in thirty years time. 2438 02:09:16.079 --> 02:09:17.840 I'm really looking forward to having you back on for 2439 02:09:17.880 --> 02:09:18.239 that one. 2440 02:09:18.399 --> 02:09:21.800 Oh, thanks so much. I mean, if we can, I 2441 02:09:22.119 --> 02:09:25.159 hope it's an event that brings in at least ten 2442 02:09:25.199 --> 02:09:26.039 percent of the people. 2443 02:09:26.479 --> 02:09:28.279 Well only if you give armbands out or do a 2444 02:09:28.279 --> 02:09:29.000 platinum edition. 2445 02:09:29.039 --> 02:09:31.159 I think happy to go that far. 2446 02:09:31.880 --> 02:09:35.159 And that was a great conversation with Charlie. Awesome. Let's 2447 02:09:35.159 --> 02:09:36.920 move into the recommended reading Ashley. 2448 02:09:37.079 --> 02:09:39.359 That is where if you go to Gekishisten at Composts 2449 02:09:39.399 --> 02:09:41.760 recommended Reading, you can pick up anything here that you 2450 02:09:42.079 --> 02:09:43.399 liked if you want to know more about the death 2451 02:09:43.439 --> 02:09:44.840 of Superman, Jason. 2452 02:09:45.119 --> 02:09:47.479 It's very simple here. What do we got everybody? It's 2453 02:09:47.600 --> 02:09:49.000 very simple these. 2454 02:09:48.800 --> 02:09:51.960 I don't know book, I don't know what was that? 2455 02:09:52.159 --> 02:09:53.319 I was like, I don't know, I don't know. How 2456 02:09:53.319 --> 02:09:55.479 can it be that simple? How can this title, How 2457 02:09:55.520 --> 02:09:56.439 can this episode be the time? 2458 02:09:56.560 --> 02:09:59.439 I didn't know if you were hyperventilating on the podcasting 2459 02:09:59.680 --> 02:10:04.479 only intentionally. It's

very simple everyone. These books have never 2460 02:10:04.920 --> 02:10:09.359 gone out of print in thirty years. There are new versions. Basically. 2461 02:10:09.359 --> 02:10:12.119 There are three trades actually in the document that I 2462 02:10:12.199 --> 02:10:14.000 usually share with you recommended reading. I didn't even put 2463 02:10:14.039 --> 02:10:19.319 them down. These are so easily searchable. Yeah, there's a 2464 02:10:19.319 --> 02:10:22.119 trade called the Death of Superman. There's a trade called 2465 02:10:22.239 --> 02:10:25.359 Funeral for a Friend. There's a trade called Reign of 2466 02:10:25.359 --> 02:10:29.720 the Superman, Return of Superman. Just get all three. It's 2467 02:10:29.720 --> 02:10:31.680 a whole storilan. It's very easy. Actually, a couple of 2468 02:10:31.720 --> 02:10:34.600 years ago they reprinted them all in like a trade dress. 2469 02:10:34.640 --> 02:10:36.560 So if you put them side by side, yeah, that's cool. 2470 02:10:36.640 --> 02:10:39.880 The spines make the bloody s of the Death of Superman. 2471 02:10:40.000 --> 02:10:43.880 So it's very simple. So go read it. That's it, 2472 02:10:43.560 --> 02:10:45.479 and then if you guess you want to bonus, you 2473 02:10:45.520 --> 02:10:47.720 can go read the Clone saga, but I don't recommend it. 2474 02:10:47.760 --> 02:10:50.279 Don't go by that Clon Soka, but go check out 2475 02:10:50.279 --> 02:10:52.600 those over at geekish lesson dot com slash recommended reading. 2476 02:10:52.680 --> 02:10:54.039 Do you want to read the Clon Saga? Get it 2477 02:10:54.039 --> 02:10:56.920 from your library. There you go, that's a great great 2478 02:10:56.960 --> 02:10:59.159 ask your local library and to help you find the 2479 02:10:59.159 --> 02:11:01.479 clone saga. Even your local librarian will be like, more, 2480 02:11:01.520 --> 02:11:03.720 are you serious? What are you doing here? 2481 02:11:03.800 --> 02:11:04.039 Kid? 2482 02:11:05.439 --> 02:11:08.199 They might slap you. Just throw it up there you 2483 02:11:08.199 --> 02:11:10.680 get slapped by your librarian. Please let us know. That 2484 02:11:10.680 --> 02:11:13.600 would be so funny. I would admire the library. 2485 02:11:13.680 --> 02:11:15.720 It's like a nice sixty five year old lady with 2486 02:11:15.760 --> 02:11:19.159 like glasses shade and a shawl or rholders slapping kids. 2487 02:11:19.199 --> 02:11:21.960 Runner. I'm not even going to explain to you why 2488 02:11:21.960 --> 02:11:24.159 that's dumb. I'm just gonna slash. I'm just imagining a 2489 02:11:24.199 --> 02:11:27.439 Meldstond and smacking people. Ashley. Let's get to the honor Roll. 2490 02:11:27.439 --> 02:11:27.880 What's that? 2491 02:11:28.000 --> 02:11:30.520 The honor Roll is where if you go over to 2492 02:11:30.760 --> 02:11:33.560 Apple Podcasts or iTunes or whatever we're calling you right now, 2493 02:11:33.600 --> 02:11:36.159 and you write us a five star review, we will 2494 02:11:36.199 --> 02:11:38.960 read whatever you say. And if you're a nice international person, 2495 02:11:39.199 --> 02:11:41.279 please do the same thing. But then take a screenshot 2496 02:11:41.279 --> 02:11:43.239 and email at to geek History Lesson at gmail dot 2497 02:11:43.239 --> 02:11:47.000 com because we can't see your international. 2498 02:11:46.239 --> 02:11:48.479 Apple Who's joining the honor Roll this week? Ashley? 2499 02:11:48.560 --> 02:11:52.560 Do really nice folks, including trap Jow twenty six, who 2500 02:11:52.600 --> 02:11:57.000 says great podcast. I found this podcast very recently and 2501 02:11:57.000 --> 02:11:59.720 it immediately became one of my favorite podcasts. So might 2502 02:12:00.159 --> 02:12:02.520 just a lession on the Umbrella Academy comics. I read 2503 02:12:02.520 --> 02:12:04.800 them over and over and I'm always learning new stuff 2504 02:12:04.800 --> 02:12:06.640 from the story. I think it would make a great lesson. 2505 02:12:06.800 --> 02:12:12.560 Bye, So thank you. Trap Jaw twenty. 2506 02:12:12.319 --> 02:12:15.680 Six good user name and also joining them is a 2507 02:12:15.800 --> 02:12:18.760 Rocket with Riswell, who says love the show. 2508 02:12:19.319 --> 02:12:20.039 I love the show. 2509 02:12:20.079 --> 02:12:22.720 It's great to learn about someone you haven't read before 2510 02:12:22.800 --> 02:12:25.359 but want to learn some background for a new series, 2511 02:12:25.600 --> 02:12:28.640 and great to refresh you on your favorites. Love the 2512 02:12:28.680 --> 02:12:32.000 list episodes too. Wish to wish the recommended reading page 2513 02:12:32.000 --> 02:12:35.199 on the site was searchable or at least had page jumps. 2514 02:12:35.199 --> 02:12:36.720 It has page jumps at the bottom. 2515 02:12:37.119 --> 02:12:39.159 As a newer listener, it's hard to get all the 2516 02:12:39.159 --> 02:12:41.439 way back to the older episodes recommended reading. 2517 02:12:41.439 --> 02:12:44.520 Look. If you're we have the site designer, you can 2518 02:12:44.560 --> 02:12:46.840 email us gigas you listen amail dot com. 2519 02:12:46.840 --> 02:12:51.960 Welcome gentleman Rocket Riswell or lady or nice non binary 2520 02:12:51.960 --> 02:12:53.680 friend Rocket Riswell. 2521 02:12:53.800 --> 02:12:57.520 Yeah. If you use Google Search, that's how you can 2522 02:12:57.560 --> 02:12:57.920 hop through the. 2523 02:12:57.880 --> 02:13:00.600 Recommend Geekaus your listen to recommend reading Comma whatever the 2524 02:13:00.680 --> 02:13:01.279 title is. 2525 02:13:01.359 --> 02:13:04.720 And yeah that our tags are very good and that work. 2526 02:13:04.800 --> 02:13:07.640 I know that because that's how I do it. It 2527 02:13:07.680 --> 02:13:09.680 takes you right to the episode you want. So there 2528 02:13:09.680 --> 02:13:11.880 you go. Thanks for those comments to both of you. 2529 02:13:12.560 --> 02:13:15.640 So what is going on to the teacher slunge today? Jason? Nothing? 2530 02:13:15.680 -->

02:13:21.279 Because Superman died. We're kinda it's so sad. That's really funny. 2531 02:13:21.319 --> 02:13:25.479 It's a sad day. There's nobody in the school's out today. Oh, okay, 2532 02:13:25.720 --> 02:13:30.279 this Superman died. Hey have you heard the news? Pretty 2533 02:13:30.279 --> 02:13:32.079 sure Superman died today. 2534 02:13:32.159 --> 02:13:36.279 Dan Jurggens is a professor teacher's Lunge somewhere Sandreds podcast. 2535 02:13:36.279 --> 02:13:38.439 So he is a professor, So go, uh, you know, 2536 02:13:38.520 --> 02:13:41.119 go talk to him. Dan SEP's really nice, so go 2537 02:13:41.199 --> 02:13:41.880 talk to him on Twitter. 2538 02:13:41.960 --> 02:13:43.760 Hey, have you heard the news Superman died today? I 2539 02:13:43.800 --> 02:13:47.439 don't know what song your parodying from Walkhart, Okay, I 2540 02:13:47.479 --> 02:13:51.359 certainly don't know. Yeah, but no, the teacher's lounge is 2541 02:13:51.359 --> 02:13:54.520 not open to day. So where is professor Jeremy and 2542 02:13:54.600 --> 02:13:59.039 Catherine Hunt at Superman's funeral? What are we doing here? What? 2543 02:13:59.039 --> 02:14:01.640 What are we doing here. We we always work, Ashley. 2544 02:14:01.680 --> 02:14:05.640 That's the true. That's true. We always that's not even uh, 2545 02:14:05.960 --> 02:14:09.000 that's not even Joe. But thank you everybody. If you 2546 02:14:09.000 --> 02:14:11.359 wanted to come into the teacher's lounge when it's open, uh, 2547 02:14:11.560 --> 02:14:13.720 don't forget to follow us and download this podcast on 2548 02:14:13.760 --> 02:14:16.840 Spotify and Apple everywhere there are podcast apps. If you 2549 02:14:16.920 --> 02:14:19.560 like this episode, please tell your friends Ashley where can 2550 02:14:19.600 --> 02:14:21.279 they follow the show? On social media? 2551 02:14:21.479 --> 02:14:23.640 You can follow us at geek History lesson dot com 2552 02:14:23.640 --> 02:14:25.720 if you put a slash blog at the end. We 2553 02:14:25.800 --> 02:14:29.600 do all kinds of amazing posts every Thursday, including geeky 2554 02:14:29.800 --> 02:14:32.880 travel blogs from our adventures all over the world. You 2555 02:14:32.920 --> 02:14:35.880 can also find us at Facebook dot com slash Geekistory Lesson, 2556 02:14:36.039 --> 02:14:40.359 on Twitter at GHL Podcasts, and on Instagram at geek 2557 02:14:40.479 --> 02:14:43.520 History Lesson. We also have a tiki talkie that we're 2558 02:14:43.520 --> 02:14:45.159 thinking about doing something with but. 2559 02:14:45.359 --> 02:14:48.720 Tbd yes, and that's at geek History Lesson. You can 2560 02:14:48.720 --> 02:14:53.640 find Ashley on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok at Ashley V. Robinson. 2561 02:14:53.920 --> 02:14:56.880 You can find me on Instagram, in Twitter at jaw on, 2562 02:14:57.039 --> 02:15:00.800 jwii in and at TikTok at Jason Inman Writer and 2563 02:15:00.880 --> 02:15:05.479 now it's time for stay around because you're stuck through 2564 02:15:05.479 --> 02:15:07.319 all the plugs. We have a little bit of bonus 2565 02:15:07.359 --> 02:15:10.560 for you, Ashley. You are Oh, hold on a second, Hello, 2566 02:15:10.720 --> 02:15:14.720 hold on a second. Oh no, here we go, God 2567 02:15:14.800 --> 02:15:21.800 damn it. Hello. Hello. I'm Louis Simonson. 2568 02:15:22.399 --> 02:15:22.600 Hi. 2569 02:15:23.039 --> 02:15:26.760 Hi, I don't know why I'm slightly English, but that's okay. 2570 02:15:26.760 --> 02:15:29.000 You're distinguished and well educated. Thank you so much. I 2571 02:15:29.079 --> 02:15:31.479 love a big fan of geek kistory lesson. 2572 02:15:31.640 --> 02:15:34.319 I mean, I wish that were true, because we've been 2573 02:15:34.319 --> 02:15:35.359 trying to get you on the podcast. 2574 02:15:35.960 --> 02:15:39.199 I know, and I know, and I've been avoiding your calls, 2575 02:15:39.199 --> 02:15:41.800 but I've seen emails. I know you've emailed me several 2576 02:15:41.880 --> 02:15:44.439 times tried to pull me on this podcast. We love you, Yes, 2577 02:15:45.159 --> 02:15:48.520 I you know. I want to ask you a question 2578 02:15:48.600 --> 02:15:51.960 here because you know I am a talented writer. Yes, 2579 02:15:51.960 --> 02:15:56.720 incredibly Yes. If we didn't use doomsday to kill Superman, 2580 02:15:57.239 --> 02:15:59.039 who should we have used. 2581 02:15:59.079 --> 02:16:04.000 Big eaty or sized chunk of cryptoity. 2582 02:16:04.199 --> 02:16:05.720 I'm going to hang up now so you can talk 2583 02:16:05.800 --> 02:16:08.279 to this y. Yeah. I just don't think that the 2584 02:16:08.359 --> 02:16:13.760 idea looks okay? Why so? Actually that's the question, I think, Louis, 2585 02:16:13.800 --> 02:16:17.720 I was like, my pitch, you want to kill Superman 2586 02:16:17.880 --> 02:16:21.039 with a Grand Canyon sized asteroid? I just thought it 2587 02:16:21.079 --> 02:16:23.520 was fighting, so it was anithetical that everything they want. Yeah, 2588 02:16:23.520 --> 02:16:25.319 but who okay, what doesn't he have to be a villain? 2589 02:16:25.399 --> 02:16:28.039 How do you kill Superman if you're not using doomsday? 2590 02:16:28.199 --> 02:16:31.159 Yeah you're nineteen ninety two, how do you kill Superman? 2591 02:16:32.200 --> 02:16:32.799 Or or who? 2592 02:16:32.879 --> 02:16:34.360 What villain would you have kill Superman? 2593 02:16:34.600 --> 02:16:38.319 My my pitch in the room would be that it's 2594 02:16:38.479 --> 02:16:42.280 it's not actually Lois Lane, but it's like somebody impersonating 2595 02:16:42.360 --> 02:16:46.040 or puppeteering or like use his greatest love talking about 2596 02:16:46.120 --> 02:16:49.559 him ste because that's like, you know, you taught me this. 2597 02:16:49.680 --> 02:16:53.079 That's his greatest strength and weakness is his heart. Like 2598 02:16:53.120 --> 02:16:54.040 that would be my pitch. 2599 02:16:53.840 --> 02:16:56.639 Of the room. I wouldn't if it was. If I 2600 02:16:56.680 -->

02:16:57.920 was in that room, I would have knock that down 2601 02:16:57.959 --> 02:16:58.440 because I'd be. 2602 02:16:58.479 --> 02:16:59.600 Like, I don't think I would have committed to it 2603 02:16:59.600 --> 02:17:02.159 because a love Lois, But I would have I would 2604 02:17:02.200 --> 02:17:04.319 have tried to come up with like a sort of 2605 02:17:04.479 --> 02:17:06.600 a like not a monster beating him to death? 2606 02:17:06.719 --> 02:17:09.600 Yeah, because I'd be like, man, that might ruin life, 2607 02:17:09.639 --> 02:17:12.719 I know. And she's like the greatest female charage in 2608 02:17:12.719 --> 02:17:15.760 the DCU. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I would have. 2609 02:17:15.799 --> 02:17:16.840 I would have tried something. 2610 02:17:16.959 --> 02:17:18.360 I think I would have gone a little more like 2611 02:17:18.479 --> 02:17:24.200 someone manipulating something. But I really like Brainiac. I know 2612 02:17:24.239 --> 02:17:27.040 when we did our Best Superman Villains, I ranked Brainiac 2613 02:17:27.120 --> 02:17:29.600 really high, so that might have been where I would 2614 02:17:29.600 --> 02:17:31.719 have started, would have been like something with Brainiac. I 2615 02:17:31.760 --> 02:17:32.479 just think he's so. 2616 02:17:32.600 --> 02:17:37.879 Cool, interesting, interesting. What's your initial impulse? Uh, I mean 2617 02:17:37.920 --> 02:17:40.000 that's kind of where my impulse goes is Brainiac. 2618 02:17:40.159 --> 02:17:42.319 I just don't see giving it to Luthor because you're 2619 02:17:42.399 --> 02:17:45.879 right then it it destroys those moments of camaraderie that 2620 02:17:45.920 --> 02:17:48.639 they do have, which are like one of my favorites 2621 02:17:48.680 --> 02:17:53.040 is like when Clark goes to interview Lex in prison 2622 02:17:53.159 --> 02:17:58.440 in I was like the Grant Morrison Superman, and you're right, 2623 02:17:58.440 --> 02:17:59.600 you could never have that back. 2624 02:18:00.319 --> 02:18:04.200 I think that. And it's funny you bring up All 2625 02:18:04.200 --> 02:18:06.319 Stirs Superman because I was gonna bring this up. I 2626 02:18:06.399 --> 02:18:10.639 actually think that All Star Superman is like Death of 2627 02:18:10.680 --> 02:18:18.719 Superman done on an Oscar movie level, because that storyline 2628 02:18:18.760 --> 02:18:21.399 is about Superman dying. It's twelve issues of Superman. 2629 02:18:21.719 --> 02:18:24.000 Yeah, but he's not kill Like I think they wanted 2630 02:18:24.040 --> 02:18:26.760 the brutality and him being killed, and which is very 2631 02:18:26.879 --> 02:18:29.319 nineties as well, in nineties comics especially. 2632 02:18:29.760 --> 02:18:32.879 And I say this as somebody who loves Death of Superman. 2633 02:18:32.920 --> 02:18:34.440 I think it's really well done. Yeah, you could love 2634 02:18:34.479 --> 02:18:37.799 it and still like have a different picture. Superman dying 2635 02:18:38.559 --> 02:18:42.000 by flying into the r sun, the source of all 2636 02:18:42.040 --> 02:18:45.959 his powers, and having to restart the sun is almost 2637 02:18:46.479 --> 02:18:48.079 the perfect death for Superman. 2638 02:18:48.319 --> 02:18:51.040 But also, like you know, to paraphrase Lewis Lade, is 2639 02:18:51.040 --> 02:18:52.760 he dead or is he living there? No, he's watching 2640 02:18:52.760 --> 02:18:53.360 over all of us. 2641 02:18:53.399 --> 02:18:56.760 He's one percent dead. It's symbolic. The idea of in 2642 02:18:56.799 --> 02:18:59.479 that storyline of Superman going into the sun is like 2643 02:19:00.000 --> 02:19:01.200 Hercules going to a limbit. 2644 02:19:01.239 --> 02:19:03.000 It's so funny because when I think of that, like 2645 02:19:03.079 --> 02:19:07.239 I imagine, you know, in in like Soviet posters which 2646 02:19:07.280 --> 02:19:10.920 they like, where it's where it's the laborer moving, like 2647 02:19:10.959 --> 02:19:13.239 I just imagine Superman in there making the sun work. 2648 02:19:13.319 --> 02:19:16.280 Yeah, no, that is mich Apollo. No, he's dead. He 2649 02:19:16.399 --> 02:19:19.520 is one. That's not like, that's not the read that 2650 02:19:19.559 --> 02:19:22.440 I take. Yeah, No, he is dead. Interesting, he's there 2651 02:19:22.920 --> 02:19:24.639 and he and and and it's funny and I know, 2652 02:19:24.719 --> 02:19:26.719 like a lot of fans will be but that Superman 2653 02:19:26.840 --> 02:19:31.360 does returne in DC one million one okay, yeah, but 2654 02:19:31.520 --> 02:19:35.120 two there's a little robot Robin and DC one million 2655 02:19:35.520 --> 02:19:37.479 cool Robin the toy Wonder. Yes, I love him. He 2656 02:19:37.520 --> 02:19:39.040 should make an action for him. They never will. 2657 02:19:39.559 --> 02:19:42.440 Should make an action sure. And also the little Robin 2658 02:19:42.520 --> 02:19:44.639 robot from the Just League of China. 2659 02:19:45.399 --> 02:19:46.760 How did we get on Robin robots? 2660 02:19:46.760 --> 02:19:46.920 Here? 2661 02:19:47.000 --> 02:19:49.799 You brought up DC one million. DC one million is great. 2662 02:19:50.200 --> 02:19:53.719 It is one of awesome. It's awesome. It would make 2663 02:19:53.760 --> 02:19:55.719 a great movie, like an animated movie. It would make 2664 02:19:55.719 --> 02:19:58.920 a great anime movie. Anyways, that Superman, that's where he 2665 02:19:58.959 --> 02:20:01.879 got the idea because in that storyline, Superman has been 2666 02:20:01.959 --> 02:20:04.920 living in the sun for like eight thousand years and 2667 02:20:04.959 --> 02:20:07.040 he comes out of the sun and he's basically an 2668 02:20:07.159 --> 02:20:11.079 energy being. Yeah yeah, yeah, so he comes out of 2669 02:20:11.079 --> 02:20:13.600 that storyline. If they're connected, they don't have to be. 2670 02:20:15.440 --> 02:20:17.360 He comes out of that sun as like sort of 2671 02:20:17.399 --> 02:20:19.799 like he is transferred to the next step, Like he's 2672

02:20:19.840 --> 02:20:25.559 not Superman anymore. He's like this sort of like otherworldly being. Yeah. Yeah, 2673 02:20:25.600 --> 02:20:27.959 he looks like Superman, but he doesn't act like super 2674 02:20:28.040 --> 02:20:31.319 He's like the superman that is Clark Kent that goes 2675 02:20:31.319 --> 02:20:36.600 into that sun is gone. He has transformed, he has evolved. 2676 02:20:36.920 --> 02:20:39.920 Now I call that death doesn't have to be death, 2677 02:20:39.959 --> 02:20:40.840 but to me, it's a similar. 2678 02:20:40.879 --> 02:20:44.360 It's it's like transcending this this mortal life bingo q. 2679 02:20:44.680 --> 02:20:46.639 So even if he is in that son like fixing 2680 02:20:46.680 --> 02:20:48.600 it and making it worse, he's not like the superman 2681 02:20:48.639 --> 02:20:50.680 that we think of when he comes back out of it. Ye, 2682 02:20:50.879 --> 02:20:52.680 it is. It is like similar. If you watch Star 2683 02:20:52.760 --> 02:20:55.799 Trek D Space nine, Yeah, yeah yeah. When Ben Cisco 2684 02:20:56.559 --> 02:21:00.000 spoilers for a thirty year old series, when Ben says 2685 02:21:00.120 --> 02:21:02.079 goes into the wormhole at the end of that series, 2686 02:21:02.120 --> 02:21:03.920 if he were to ever come back, he would not 2687 02:21:03.959 --> 02:21:06.319 be Benson. You look at that as his death. Yes, 2688 02:21:06.680 --> 02:21:09.920 it is death. That's so funny. You know he comes 2689 02:21:10.000 --> 02:21:12.879 back and goes to the person who wrote that episode 2690 02:21:12.920 --> 02:21:16.680 said he dies. Yeah, well you would know he dies. 2691 02:21:18.000 --> 02:21:19.920 I've read that interview he was. He was like, I'm 2692 02:21:19.920 --> 02:21:21.680 going to do the one thing I received and Bear 2693 02:21:21.719 --> 02:21:23.360 wrote an interview he said when he was writing the 2694 02:21:23.399 --> 02:21:26.680 finale D Space nine, he said, you know genius, He's 2695 02:21:26.840 --> 02:21:29.520 there's another genius like Grandmore is on the same level. 2696 02:21:30.799 --> 02:21:32.239 And just like Dan, we're talking about a lot of 2697 02:21:32.319 --> 02:21:35.559 very talented people in this episode. I love it do 2698 02:21:35.600 --> 02:21:36.840 a gjail in talented people. 2699 02:21:38.680 --> 02:21:38.920 Read. 2700 02:21:39.680 --> 02:21:41.680 The reason why he did that ending is he said 2701 02:21:41.680 --> 02:21:43.079 that he was like, I'm going to do the one 2702 02:21:43.200 --> 02:21:45.280 thing that no other Star Trek series has done. I'm 2703 02:21:45.319 --> 02:21:46.360 going to kill the captain. 2704 02:21:46.440 --> 02:21:48.639 That's so funny because again I don't look at maybe 2705 02:21:48.639 --> 02:21:50.959 that's like maybe that's me, or maybe that's like like 2706 02:21:51.760 --> 02:21:53.959 a feminine view of the world or a masculine but 2707 02:21:54.079 --> 02:21:57.000 I don't, like I agree. It's like it's a trick. 2708 02:21:57.079 --> 02:21:58.680 I don't do it his death because to me, like 2709 02:21:58.680 --> 02:22:00.239 he always comes back and goes to bijor. 2710 02:22:00.159 --> 02:22:02.840 Yes, and I know, like just like Superman in that series, 2711 02:22:02.879 --> 02:22:06.760 there's a version of him that talks to his wife. Yeah, 2712 02:22:06.920 --> 02:22:11.680 if you listen to the way he acts, it's not him. 2713 02:22:13.719 --> 02:22:16.840 I can't deal with the idea that he would leave Jake. Yeah, 2714 02:22:17.000 --> 02:22:21.040 he didn't lean my choice. I know, I know, but 2715 02:22:21.079 --> 02:22:23.719 it's very similar. All of these myths have an idea 2716 02:22:23.760 --> 02:22:26.879 that like if that person comes back, they're not going 2717 02:22:26.920 --> 02:22:27.799 to be the same person. 2718 02:22:28.239 --> 02:22:33.200 It's so it's very similar to or it's just like 2719 02:22:33.719 --> 02:22:37.959 momed right, like Mohammed never said it's like Jesus, it's 2720 02:22:37.959 --> 02:22:43.000 that same myth. I mean it's the Osiris smith in Smith. Yeah, 2721 02:22:43.559 --> 02:22:45.319 very anterot to bring it back to our same conversation. 2722 02:22:46.239 --> 02:22:48.079 It's so funny because I don't hear a lot of 2723 02:22:48.079 --> 02:22:50.479 people think about that way. But like I have always 2724 02:22:50.520 --> 02:22:53.159 seen the All Star Superman storyline as like, oh, this 2725 02:22:53.280 --> 02:22:56.239 is death of Superman, but like done in sort of 2726 02:22:56.280 --> 02:22:57.280 like an artsy way. 2727 02:22:58.040 --> 02:23:01.520 I mean, is uh with It's like what if death 2728 02:23:01.559 --> 02:23:04.239 of Superman in the twelve Laborers of Hercules had your baby. 2729 02:23:05.920 --> 02:23:08.200 One of my favorite issues is when Lewis becus your Superpowers. 2730 02:23:08.479 --> 02:23:11.200 It's great issue too, but yeah it's a It'sue three thing. 2731 02:23:11.719 --> 02:23:14.399 But yeah, that's it's so funny because so that's how 2732 02:23:14.440 --> 02:23:15.959 I would do. Like to me, I'm like, I can't 2733 02:23:15.959 --> 02:23:17.559 even think of a better version because I'm like, also 2734 02:23:17.559 --> 02:23:19.920 a Superman did Death a Superman a million times better 2735 02:23:19.920 --> 02:23:21.440 than I could. They also made a great movie of it, 2736 02:23:21.639 --> 02:23:24.959 they did. Yeah, written by their late great Duayne McDuffie. Yeah, 2737 02:23:25.000 --> 02:23:32.040 another genius. Hey have you heard the news Superman died today? Yeah, 2738 02:23:32.680 --> 02:23:34.280 so there you go, death the Superman. There you go. 2739 02:23:35.959 --> 02:23:38.000 Does that mean that this is the death of this episode? 2740 02:23:39.639 --> 02:23:49.120 I mean yeah, I think it's about that time. Hello, 2741 02:23:49.239 --> 02:23:53.200 and welcome to Geek History Lesson. I am Jason Inman. 2742 02:23:53.239 --> 02:23:54.559 And I'm Jeremy Skinner. 2743 02:23:54.680 -->

02:23:56.520 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 2744 02:23:56.840 --> 02:23:57.520 I snuck in. 2745 02:23:57.680 --> 02:24:02.600 Hi, Jeremy former GHL guest and also Jason and Jeremy 2746 02:24:02.639 --> 02:24:06.280 John about Justice League guest or guests? Your host, your 2747 02:24:06.319 --> 02:24:09.319 host of that my qualities? What are you doing to 2748 02:24:09.319 --> 02:24:11.639 get History Lesson? Where's Ashley Victoria Robins? 2749 02:24:11.639 --> 02:24:13.280 You never you never took back to your key to 2750 02:24:13.360 --> 02:24:15.440 the teacher's lounge? Still have access? 2751 02:24:15.520 --> 02:24:16.040 You've got it? 2752 02:24:16.159 --> 02:24:17.760 Well, I've been doing my laundry here too. 2753 02:24:17.959 --> 02:24:22.239 What you've been leaving text alone though, right, you've been 2754 02:24:22.280 --> 02:24:23.440 leaving Textwillerman alone. 2755 02:24:23.799 --> 02:24:25.840 Text Willerman needs to leave me alone. 2756 02:24:26.079 --> 02:24:29.440 That's fair, That's very fair. Well, you know, Jeremy, while 2757 02:24:29.479 --> 02:24:32.760 you're here, we should I think we should just do 2758 02:24:32.799 --> 02:24:36.360 a podcast, right, let's do it? Okay, Well, listeners, this 2759 02:24:36.399 --> 02:24:38.440 is a fun little bonus episode we thought about doing 2760 02:24:38.479 --> 02:24:42.600 because we got a piece of listener mail to our 2761 02:24:42.639 --> 02:24:46.000 other podcast that I co host with the awesome Jeremy 2762 02:24:46.040 --> 02:24:48.639 Skinner here, which of course is Jason and Jeremy John 2763 02:24:48.680 --> 02:24:51.840 about Justice League where we review every episode of Justice League, 2764 02:24:51.879 --> 02:24:53.520 the animated series, and you can find that over at 2765 02:24:53.600 --> 02:24:56.319 patreon dot com slash job when you get two episodes 2766 02:24:56.319 --> 02:24:59.719 a month. Well for that podcast, Jeremy, we get mailed, 2767 02:24:59.719 --> 02:25:00.559 don't we. 2768 02:25:00.559 --> 02:25:01.000 We do. 2769 02:25:01.159 --> 02:25:04.680 We get mail at Jason and Jeremy at Jason and 2770 02:25:04.719 --> 02:25:06.280 Jeremy pod at gmail dot com. 2771 02:25:06.559 --> 02:25:08.280 So feel free to send us mail. 2772 02:25:08.360 --> 02:25:09.680 Yeah, and sometimes we read. 2773 02:25:09.479 --> 02:25:13.120 Them most of the time, I notice sometimes. 2774 02:25:13.399 --> 02:25:16.079 And you know, we got this amazing We got this 2775 02:25:16.239 --> 02:25:21.040 really really amazing letter that I thought was such an 2776 02:25:21.079 --> 02:25:25.159 interesting discussion that I thought it actually kind of became 2777 02:25:25.559 --> 02:25:30.040 a history lesson. It's sort of Jeremy by no means 2778 02:25:30.079 --> 02:25:32.559 am I saying that our podcast is lower than geek 2779 02:25:32.639 --> 02:25:34.719 history lesson, But I'm just saying that I thought the 2780 02:25:34.760 --> 02:25:37.000 discussion was so interesting that we needed to

use it 2781 02:25:37.040 --> 02:25:40.799 at the Myne University for education for sure and brainwashing, 2782 02:25:40.920 --> 02:25:45.159 you know what. Okay, So here is the letter. Hi, 2783 02:25:46.239 --> 02:25:49.479 Jeremy and Jason. This is from rust Walker. He said, 2784 02:25:49.479 --> 02:25:51.719 thank you for answering my question on the last episode. 2785 02:25:51.719 --> 02:25:55.360 He's talking about the Jason and Jeremy justin including the 2786 02:25:55.399 --> 02:25:58.920 bonus episode and he's talking about the you know, you know, yeah, 2787 02:25:59.000 --> 02:26:00.719 I was walking the dog the other day. Oh, good 2788 02:26:00.719 --> 02:26:02.840 for you. Good for walking and listening to the JHL 2789 02:26:02.879 --> 02:26:05.719 episode about the Superman chronology that was with the Amazing 2790 02:26:05.719 --> 02:26:08.200 and Cameron Cuff, and I realized I had a question 2791 02:26:08.239 --> 02:26:11.879 about Superman that I hadn't considered before. I thought you 2792 02:26:12.000 --> 02:26:14.760 all might have some insight or opinions on it. Well, well, 2793 02:26:14.760 --> 02:26:17.879 you definitely have that the actual episode that it relates 2794 02:26:17.920 --> 02:26:20.559 to is far in the future. I think it's injusticely unlimited. 2795 02:26:20.559 --> 02:26:24.079 But just as Superman fans in general, do you agree 2796 02:26:24.200 --> 02:26:27.920 with the idea that the life on Krypton shown to 2797 02:26:28.000 --> 02:26:31.040 Clark Kent by the Black Mercy and the Man who 2798 02:26:31.079 --> 02:26:36.319 Has Everything story is actually his preferred slash perfect life. 2799 02:26:36.959 --> 02:26:39.680 So much of Superman often seems to be about embracing 2800 02:26:39.959 --> 02:26:42.680 humanity and his love of his family, and here it 2801 02:26:42.799 --> 02:26:45.840 struck me as odd that his perfect dream world would 2802 02:26:45.879 --> 02:26:50.159 be a society he has never known. Anyways, I know 2803 02:26:50.200 --> 02:26:51.840 you all are busy. I hope your week is going 2804 02:26:51.840 --> 02:26:53.280 well and then all of your products are headed in 2805 02:26:53.280 --> 02:26:56.040 a positive direction. Thanks again for the fantastic podcast. Cheers, 2806 02:26:56.639 --> 02:26:58.879 Russ Walker, Russ, thank you so much for that letter, 2807 02:27:00.120 --> 02:27:02.520 and that's part one of the reasons why we loved 2808 02:27:02.719 --> 02:27:05.120 We're also recording the Jason and Jeremy john about Justleegue 2809 02:27:05.120 --> 02:27:08.760 podcast is because of awesome letters. But Jeremy, this is 2810 02:27:08.799 --> 02:27:13.479 a fascinating discussion. This happens all over the Superman Methos 2811 02:27:13.520 --> 02:27:16.840 that he gets clanked on the head, punched by Mongol, 2812 02:27:17.360 --> 02:27:20.120 falls down the stairs, you know, the Kryptonized stairs, and 2813 02:27:20.159 --> 02:27:23.840 then he has a dream of him living a life 2814 02:27:24.319 --> 02:27:29.680 on planet Krypton with a little Jore and a little Laura, 2815 02:27:29.879 --> 02:27:35.239 And why are his dreams so cryptocentric? I would love 2816 02:27:35.239 --> 02:27:37.399 to hear your thoughts on this. So I actually got 2817 02:27:37.399 --> 02:27:38.000 a long setup. 2818 02:27:38.000 --> 02:27:41.719 Sorry, I actually I really loved this question too, and 2819 02:27:41.799 --> 02:27:44.280 I went ahead and sent my thoughts to us in 2820 02:27:44.360 --> 02:27:48.040 an email. So Russ for you, you already know all of this, 2821 02:27:48.280 --> 02:27:52.920 but I think it's very very telling that the version 2822 02:27:52.959 --> 02:27:56.040 of Krypton in his fantasy, and I'm specifically speaking about 2823 02:27:56.079 --> 02:27:57.920 the episode for the man who has everything. 2824 02:27:57.799 --> 02:28:00.920 The Just League Unlimited episodes. Yes, yes, and Ellen. 2825 02:28:00.680 --> 02:28:03.239 Moore story very very similar to Krypton. 2826 02:28:04.280 --> 02:28:08.280 Likes he has a farm on Krypton, you know what 2827 02:28:08.319 --> 02:28:11.479 I mean, Like he's growing wheat in this version of Krypton. 2828 02:28:11.559 --> 02:28:13.120 Do you think Krypton doesn't have wheat? 2829 02:28:13.280 --> 02:28:16.399 I think that Superman doesn't really have any idea what 2830 02:28:16.479 --> 02:28:20.159 Krypton is like, Like he's seen hollow videos or whatever 2831 02:28:20.200 --> 02:28:24.120 in the Fortress, but he doesn't really know. It's an 2832 02:28:24.120 --> 02:28:27.000 empty hole in his life. For him, it's this. It 2833 02:28:27.040 --> 02:28:30.239 represents unfulfilled potential, all the things that he could have had. 2834 02:28:30.360 --> 02:28:34.399 So whenever he imagines, you know, a fantasy reality, he 2835 02:28:34.479 --> 02:28:36.799 of course is going to long for this thing that 2836 02:28:36.879 --> 02:28:39.760 he's never had, that's always been denied from him. You know, 2837 02:28:39.840 --> 02:28:42.120 that could have been so amazing for all he knows, 2838 02:28:42.399 --> 02:28:44.879 But since he doesn't, what just happened? 2839 02:28:44.920 --> 02:28:48.200 Jeremy, I have to stop you. There is your thesis. 2840 02:28:48.639 --> 02:28:51.399 You're saying that every other time we've seen Krypton and 2841 02:28:51.520 --> 02:28:55.159 any Superman story it is complete crap, because that is 2842 02:28:55.200 --> 02:28:58.120 just Superman's weird memories of it. No, not the actual 2843 02:28:58.159 --> 02:28:59.840 times we go to Crypton, but every time we see 2844 02:28:59.879 --> 02:29:00.440 as Superman. 2845 02:29:01.440 --> 02:29:03.159 Not not necessarily every time. 2846 02:29:03.280 --> 02:29:05.239 But but what I what I think is going on 2847 02:29:05.360 --> 02:29:09.239 here basically is since you know, in his perfect life, 2848 02:29:09.239 --> 02:29:12.079 he wouldn't have been he wouldn't have lost this massive thing. 2849 02:29:13.000 -->

02:29:15.799 It serves as a background for his fantasy. But what 2850 02:29:15.879 --> 02:29:19.319 does he populate his fantasy with Earth things? Who does 2851 02:29:19.319 --> 02:29:21.000 his wife look like Lana Lang? 2852 02:29:21.360 --> 02:29:22.000 What does he do? 2853 02:29:22.200 --> 02:29:24.920 He grows wheat, you know, like he has he has, 2854 02:29:25.239 --> 02:29:28.239 he has the Kansas Farm. He has the Kansas Farm 2855 02:29:28.280 --> 02:29:31.840 on Krypton. It's slight Jurassic Park, right. He's using frog 2856 02:29:31.959 --> 02:29:34.000 DNA to fill in the gaps of what he doesn't 2857 02:29:34.040 --> 02:29:34.920 know about Krypton. 2858 02:29:35.760 --> 02:29:38.239 That's what he's doing. He's taking He's taking. 2859 02:29:37.959 --> 02:29:41.000 Earth stuff that he loves and truly makes him happy, 2860 02:29:41.319 --> 02:29:44.319 and he's plugging that into this Crypton fantasy, which you know, 2861 02:29:44.440 --> 02:29:46.639 like I said, is basically just a bad drop for 2862 02:29:46.680 --> 02:29:48.920 all the lost potential it represents for him. 2863 02:29:50.799 --> 02:29:55.920 I love how to me Jeremy took the stucco wall 2864 02:29:56.000 --> 02:29:59.200 of DC Continuity and he has smoothed it all over. 2865 02:29:59.360 --> 02:30:02.719 He's made it real smooth. It's perfect for painting. Now 2866 02:30:03.000 --> 02:30:03.920 it's going to be lovely. 2867 02:30:04.000 --> 02:30:05.079 I love solving problem. 2868 02:30:06.440 --> 02:30:08.479 That was pretty good. Well, Jeremy, let me ask you this. 2869 02:30:09.399 --> 02:30:12.319 Do you think in the future of you know, Superman 2870 02:30:12.399 --> 02:30:19.600 storytelling and Superman media, that his dreams should be more earthlike? 2871 02:30:19.680 --> 02:30:20.920 Should it be a fifty to fifty. 2872 02:30:21.559 --> 02:30:24.040 I mean, I think this works at about this level, 2873 02:30:24.280 --> 02:30:26.319 you know, where it is fifty to fifty because he is, 2874 02:30:26.520 --> 02:30:26.879 you know. 2875 02:30:27.200 --> 02:30:28.719 I think you might see a couple more tractors. 2876 02:30:28.959 --> 02:30:31.600 It'll, yeah, it'll, It'll be unresolved for him forever. 2877 02:30:31.680 --> 02:30:35.040 It might be some inappropriate billboards about you know, religions. 2878 02:30:35.280 --> 02:30:36.840 On Krypton, yeah, or on Earth. 2879 02:30:36.920 --> 02:30:38.159 I'm just saying, if you're gonna make it a little 2880 02:30:38.159 --> 02:30:40.719 bit more earth centric, that's not necessarily I'm giving you 2881 02:30:40.719 --> 02:30:42.440 like I'm giving pitches for. You know, there's got to 2882 02:30:42.440 --> 02:30:45.200 be a Chevrolet in there somewhere. Oh, absolutely, you know, 2883 02:30:45.239 --> 02:30:48.600 a coffee can has to roll down the road somewhere. 2884 02:30:49.040 --> 02:30:51.280 There has to be roadkill, Cryptonian roadkill. 2885 02:30:51.479 --> 02:30:53.920 There needs to be laundry drying on a line.

2886 02:30:53.719 --> 02:30:58.079 That's right. Yeah, there has to be a Casey's General 2887 02:30:58.120 --> 02:30:58.959 Store somewhere. 2888 02:30:59.120 --> 02:31:05.799 There has to be a. 2889 02:31:02.760 --> 02:31:08.319 All these Midwest jokes everywhere. That would yeah, the Crypton 2890 02:31:09.000 --> 02:31:12.159 General Store. Wow, that would be a hell of a thing. 2891 02:31:13.600 --> 02:31:15.600 If you love Casey's General Store, please send us an 2892 02:31:15.600 --> 02:31:16.360 eat No, I don't care. 2893 02:31:18.120 --> 02:31:19.760 Yeah, go ahead, send me an email. I don't care. 2894 02:31:19.799 --> 02:31:20.200 I'll read it. 2895 02:31:21.799 --> 02:31:26.000 Jeremy, let me ask you this as well. Do you 2896 02:31:26.040 --> 02:31:30.159 have a favorite dream version of Krypton. You know, obviously 2897 02:31:30.200 --> 02:31:32.000 this is a great episode, and this is a great 2898 02:31:32.319 --> 02:31:36.440 even in the comics and in the justly animated series episode. 2899 02:31:37.719 --> 02:31:39.159 This is a great version of Krypton. But do you 2900 02:31:39.159 --> 02:31:40.840 have another version of Rypton that you really dig? Like, 2901 02:31:40.840 --> 02:31:42.120 what's your favorite version of Krypton? 2902 02:31:42.639 --> 02:31:46.479 I mean, I don't, I don't, honestly. I really kind 2903 02:31:46.479 --> 02:31:48.959 of like the Man of Steel version of Krypton. 2904 02:31:48.799 --> 02:31:50.680 That's sort of like biommetic kind of though. 2905 02:31:50.639 --> 02:31:55.280 Yeah, yeah, which is so not my style, but I 2906 02:31:55.319 --> 02:31:59.600 really like the genetic engineering aspect of that version of Krypton, 2907 02:32:01.440 --> 02:32:03.799 so I would probably wind up going with that one. 2908 02:32:03.959 --> 02:32:06.639 In terms of like a Krypton fantasy, this is my 2909 02:32:07.079 --> 02:32:10.000 favorite one. I mean, for the man who has everything 2910 02:32:10.040 --> 02:32:12.520 is heartbreaking. The end of it whenever he has to 2911 02:32:12.719 --> 02:32:15.280 say goodbye to his fake son and then beat the 2912 02:32:15.319 --> 02:32:19.399 absolute crap out of Mongol is sad and satisfying. 2913 02:32:20.120 --> 02:32:24.520 I see. I will always have love for the green suit, 2914 02:32:24.559 --> 02:32:28.360 the silver age and the red cape silver Age Krypton, 2915 02:32:28.639 --> 02:32:30.840 like just because of like everybody wears capes and it's 2916 02:32:30.920 --> 02:32:33.959 kind of like the Jetsons, and there's something like very 2917 02:32:34.040 --> 02:32:35.959 cute and upbeat about that, so that I always have 2918 02:32:36.000 --> 02:32:40.399 a lot of passion for that. But weirdly, you know, 2919 02:32:40.440 --> 02:32:42.799 it's interesting. I'll tell you one crypton that I love 2920 02:32:42.840 --> 02:32:45.680 for the look is that there was that weird Michael 2921 02:32:45.680 --> 02:32:47.719 Turner story about ten years ago and I do not 2922 02:32:47.760 --> 02:32:50.120 remember the name of it, where he like gave Superman 2923 02:32:50.239 --> 02:32:52.319 was like a super cop and he had like white 2924 02:32:52.440 --> 02:32:55.680 scratchy armor over his suit and like that was the 2925 02:32:56.000 --> 02:32:58.879 and everybody wore rode motorcycles that flew like battles are 2926 02:32:58.879 --> 02:33:01.360 going back to a nineteen eighty nine, nineteen eighty and 2927 02:33:01.959 --> 02:33:05.280 you know, and it was very anime Krypton, and I 2928 02:33:05.360 --> 02:33:07.840 kind of always I've liked I've always kind of liked that. 2929 02:33:08.200 --> 02:33:10.319 I literally have no idea what you're talking about. 2930 02:33:10.360 --> 02:33:13.959 Oh man, I gotta google this. It was it was 2931 02:33:14.200 --> 02:33:18.159 right before Brian az Arello wrote Superman. They did it 2932 02:33:18.200 --> 02:33:22.920 like they gave it to Aspen Studios and they let 2933 02:33:22.959 --> 02:33:24.479 them just do whatever they want. And I think it 2934 02:33:24.520 --> 02:33:27.239 was like a skip month or they needed. It's called Godfall. 2935 02:33:27.360 --> 02:33:28.239 I just found it. 2936 02:33:28.360 --> 02:33:31.159 Oh, I remember that he's got the black and red armor. 2937 02:33:31.319 --> 02:33:33.719 Yeah, but like yeah, yeah, like it's it's weird. 2938 02:33:34.280 --> 02:33:37.040 Just I never read it, but I remember, like you, Yeah. 2939 02:33:36.920 --> 02:33:43.559 If you see hers, it happened in twenty eleven Superman Godfall. Yeah, 2940 02:33:43.600 --> 02:33:47.079 it's basically like it's like an alternate timeline of Krypton. 2941 02:33:47.719 --> 02:33:51.639 And again, Krypton is super anime, but it's I always 2942 02:33:51.920 --> 02:33:54.639 liked that look because it felt like they took Krypton 2943 02:33:54.680 --> 02:33:56.920 and they jazzed it up with a lot of cola 2944 02:33:56.959 --> 02:33:58.680 and soda drinks and just sent it down to the 2945 02:33:58.719 --> 02:34:03.079 store and let it go nuts. Take all the candy 2946 02:34:03.120 --> 02:34:05.079 you want from the Casey's General Store. Just don't talk 2947 02:34:05.120 --> 02:34:07.959 to me, Billy, you know, you know all this stuff. 2948 02:34:10.520 --> 02:34:13.200 But yeah, that there's something to there's something to be 2949 02:34:13.239 --> 02:34:17.360 said about unbridled creativity and Russ. That's why we were 2950 02:34:17.360 --> 02:34:19.440 so happy to answer your letter. Man, what a what 2951 02:34:19.559 --> 02:34:22.879 a great, great letter. Thank you so much for that, Russ, 2952 02:34:23.399 --> 02:34:26.520 and also Russ, I know Russ is an excellent Patreon 2953 02:34:26.559 --> 02:34:29.079 of ours over at patreon dot com slash job on 2954 02:34:29.159 --> 02:34:31.959 the jaw ii in where you get all kinds of 2955 02:34:32.040 --> 02:34:35.680 extra podcasts like Jason and Jeremy John about Justice League, 2956 02:34:35.920 --> 02:34:39.200 which is the

podcast happens twice a month. Jeremy, what 2957 02:34:39.200 --> 02:34:41.079 would you say to the listeners, if they've never listened 2958 02:34:41.079 --> 02:34:43.959 to that podcast, they've never come with a Patreon, what 2959 02:34:44.000 --> 02:34:45.719 would you say, like, what would you how would you 2960 02:34:45.719 --> 02:34:47.959 describe the Jason and Jeremy john about JUSTE podcasts? 2961 02:34:48.479 --> 02:34:51.479 I would say that we are a show with two 2962 02:34:51.559 --> 02:34:53.440 best friends who have a lot of fun with each 2963 02:34:53.479 --> 02:34:56.799 other and are actually currently in need of one more 2964 02:34:56.840 --> 02:34:58.840 segment because we don't have enough segments. 2965 02:34:59.000 --> 02:35:02.079 We don't have enough segments, and we only have one 2966 02:35:02.079 --> 02:35:05.879 sound effect. We only have one sound off, the biggest 2967 02:35:05.920 --> 02:35:10.040 lie that was ever told to humanity. Jeremy, thank you 2968 02:35:10.040 --> 02:35:12.319 so much for joining us here on geekschrelsent But anyways, 2969 02:35:12.319 --> 02:35:13.600 everybody go check that out. 2970 02:35:13.639 --> 02:35:15.879 I mean, like I said, I was here anyway doing laundry. 2971 02:35:16.040 --> 02:35:18.079 I'm here a lot more often than you think. 2972 02:35:18.079 --> 02:35:18.399 I am. 2973 02:35:18.479 --> 02:35:20.920 Zowy wit so are you saying that in Geekischer lesson continuity? 2974 02:35:21.559 --> 02:35:25.000 Every time you enter the teacher's lounge you're there. 2975 02:35:25.920 --> 02:35:29.920 Not every time, but I'm probably nearby, maybe just around 2976 02:35:29.959 --> 02:35:30.479 the corner. 2977 02:35:30.879 --> 02:35:32.319 I'm kind of unemployed at the moment. 2978 02:35:33.280 --> 02:35:34.520 It's kind of creepy. 2979 02:35:34.760 --> 02:35:38.719 Okay, it's kind of creepy. You guys have free coffee, 2980 02:35:39.239 --> 02:35:39.959 that's true. 2981 02:35:40.239 --> 02:35:43.319 We do we do? And yeah, you know there's a lot. 2982 02:35:43.319 --> 02:35:45.360 There's a lot of weird stuff in here. Jeremy, tell 2983 02:35:45.360 --> 02:35:46.920 everybody where they can find you on social media in 2984 02:35:46.959 --> 02:35:48.159 case they want to check you out. Buddy. 2985 02:35:48.959 --> 02:35:52.639 You can find me on Twitter at jl awesome. 2986 02:35:52.879 --> 02:35:57.040 Jl awesome. That's correct. That may be a username I 2987 02:35:57.200 --> 02:35:59.399 just recently inserted into a comic book I was writing. 2988 02:35:59.479 --> 02:36:03.680 So everybody, thank you so much for listening. We'll be 2989 02:36:03.719 --> 02:36:05.879 back next week with a full episode, but we thought 2990 02:36:05.920 --> 02:36:07.520 this would be a really fun episode to kind of 2991 02:36:07.559 --> 02:36:09.600 clear the gap. You can find me on Twitter and 2992 02:36:09.600 --> 02:36:13.440 Instagram at jaman that's a at jawii in And don't 2993 02:36:13.479 --> 02:36:16.120 forget to subscribe and listen to Geek History Lesson everywhere 2994 02:36:16.680 --> 02:36:19.319 you can find podcasts, even in the General Store, even 2995 02:36:19.360 --> 02:36:20.799 in the caseyes general story, you might be able to 2996 02:36:20.799 --> 02:36:23.200 find podcasts. Go support us right there. Thank you so 2997 02:36:23.239 --> 02:36:25.600 much for listening to Geek History Lesson, and Jeremy will 2998 02:36:25.719 --> 02:36:27.200 please dismiss the class. 2999 02:36:27.719 --> 02:36:29.360 Class is dismissed.