ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week, on the season finale of Magic Lessons, Elizabeth Gilbert takes a deep dive into the some of the season’s themes with writer and activist Glennon Doyle Melton. They talk about Melton’s trajectory from blogger to best-selling author, and she offers a benediction to the eight creators who shared their stories this season.

Special Guest: Glennon Doyle Melton is the author of the New York Times bestselling memoirs Love Warrior and Carry On, Warrior:The Power of Embracing Your Messy, Beautiful Life. She’s the creator of the online community Momastery and the founder and president of the non-profit Together Rising, which has raised millions of dollars for families in crisis all over the world.

This week's sponsors: Audible.com, Casper.com, TheGreatCoursesPlus.com, and Stamps.com 

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English
United States

TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00magic lessons is supported in part by audible.com audible content includes more than 250,000 audio programs from leading audio book publishers broadcasters entertainers magazines and newspaper Publishers business information providers content is downloaded and Playback on your smartphone portable device or PC Magic lessons listeners claiming the life you were meant to live it's by Martha Beck the amazing writer and life coach and truly one of the most important people in my life and she's one of our guest this season on the podcast is offering magic lessons podcast listeners a free 30-day trial membership just go to audible.com lessons and choose from over 250,000 titles and start listening it's that easy go to audible.com lessons that's audible.com lessons and get started today magic lessons is also supported by Caspar and online
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00:01:52just a heads up everybody these are adults having adult conversations so there is the possibility of adult language
00:02:04everyone and welcome to Magic lessons the podcast produced by maximumfun.org I'm Elizabeth Gilbert and last year I wrote this book called Big magic creative living beyond when I was finished with the book I was definitely not finished with the topic because I'm still as much as ever fascinated with the intricacies of the creative process and how we find our way through that strange Journey the obstacles we meet along the way and the joy of what we alternate the create and it is through my desire to keep having that conversation status the magic lessons podcast was born so here we are season 2 and we are back back with more real conversations with real people amateur where is and experts the season we will be meeting poets and novelist dancers photographers Comedians and whether they're ready or not me and my friends are going to help them figure out how to shake up their fear
00:03:04and start making stuff cuz I think they are ready so let's go
00:03:11so wow everybody today is the season finale of The Magic lessons podcast season 2 and there's this word that keeps arising for me as I reflect these last 8 episodes on that word is courage these eight four years we met on the season are so courageous Joe Keith and Cecilia Colleen Penelope Brita and it took extremely courage for each one of them to write the essay that they wrote to try to get my attention it took an even bigger than a card for them to actually hit send and submit it and then it took courage for them to come out in this public for up and share how hard it is for them to create it matters and white sacred and it's essential they are without it they are with it and it took a ton of Courage for them to report back to tens of thousands of listeners about it so I just wanted to send out a special love message to my very brave team creators this season thank you I admire
00:04:11your courage has inspired me and it will continue to serve all of you well throughout life as well as making other people over which again is not the primary reason that we do it is for what is illuminates within us but one of the many secondary benefits is that your courage of expression makes it easier for other people to find errors and so thank you to all of you you're wonderful and I love you and that subject on Courage brings me to a special guest today Glennon Doyle Melton so what we do with our dear friend brene Brown I bring on one last special guest and we just do what I call a benediction which is going to be a long and freeform conversation about all the issues that came up the season as a way of closing out all the discussions that we've been having is one of my favorite people in the entire world she's an author a speaker a blogger and activist
00:05:11I consider her my sister she's the author of an extraordinary Called Love Warrior and many of you know her from Fantastic, I've also worked with her and a lot of social work stuff especially this big Refugee relief project that she and I have been on for quite a long time I'm so happy to Walk Through This World shoulder-to-shoulder With Glennon and as you will see when you get to meet her now she is one of the most courageous people I've ever met so let's begin hi sweetie it's Liz Hi how are you I can't wait for this conversation I have so much that I want to talk to you about for those of you for listening who don't know who played Doyle Melton is in which case what is the matter with you
00:06:04so you can just pause Now and Google her and look her up and read all her books and come back to the conversation or I can just let you go give me the thumbnail version of how you came to be in the world in the manner that you are in the world and so when I decide to get sober which is when I became pregnant with my case 14 years ago now I just decided to do the opposite of that just to live completely out of hiding because I figured out that it's not paying that takes it down at the same about the pain I'm so if I just every single day. All of this
00:06:58vacation. Out of the inside of me into the light that I can have stayed magically every single morning and you started writing it all out like pulling on the demons out from inside of me and throwing them onto a blank page and I started posting them online and everyone started saying me to Bill and something about the me to about my bucket's stuff made me stop being afraid of myself maybe just like everyday want to show more and more of myself then not only did I fell in love with telling the truth and living out in the open but I started falling in love with all of the people who were then showing me their selves right because the amazing thing about being super honest it's like his key that unlocks other people and so people say there you are and so here I am to
00:07:58love the hell out of them forever but then I became an activist
00:08:01and so every day I just kind of use my writing to heal myself and then I used to love I have for my readers to try to heal the world carry on warrior in the New Black is coming out couple of warrior and Military misteri everybody except she spells it momastery cuz she's a mom momastery is where to go if you want to sort of get in on the Glennon Doyle Melton Revolution and it is a revolution and it is extraordinary and I know you've told me a million times before but I need you to tell the story about that first relative that you put on the internet when somebody was passing a Facebook meme along so friendly thing where people were saying tell us 10 things we don't know about you and then pass this to all your friends this is the story I always tell about you when I try to tell people so if you could just share that that would be wonderful
00:09:01honest somewhere which is so hard to do in real life outside as a group so people are just like lifting things about themselves and I thought if I could do this I can make a list so I got down and checked out a bunch of stuff and I was because Williams of times for my personal page and I had something like 39 emails in my inbox and I had to like six voicemail to my sister which is like our bat signal for I've done something inappropriate to still make quite a lot of cleanup on her part
00:09:43what on Earth happened to hear that happen I didn't read anyone else's list before I wrote mine looks like the kids are just for me so I'm recovering food and alcohol addict but I still find myself missing booze in the same Twisted way we can miss those who repeatedly beat us and we Left 4 Dead
00:10:06Wikipedia trail-rite can you give an example of what somebody else's number 608
00:10:18I like to hear God what I think in my head because I think a million times a day like we're not doing that here I feel like everyone's faces are always saying to me like that or not doing that yet when I got Brave and started opening up all these emails from people unless they were from people who I have known my whole life
00:10:48many of them and never introduced yourself to me right because we've been so freaking busy staying on the surface with each other and trying to like each other that we did not talk to each other stuff that like cheetahs up at night you know like the stuff that the heavy stuff that we were actually meant to help each other fairy here so they said things like and bulimic you for 15 years and nobody knows or marriage is crumbling and it's too me too me too me too so that's what I was like this is something I could do I owe my God this is what I'm going to be
00:11:39shea moisture color for my whole life because this is not a joke this is like a key that can unlock people unless he has any other marketable skills
00:11:57that's the day I feel like it's just one shop you have so I didn't have enough of my own it's so hard for women mother to find creative time because in order to be created you have to go so deep and mothers are so used to living on the surface because at any moment somebody could be as you right so I had in my closet I think because there was two doors between my children and me like they had to go through to get to my husband has it run into my husband before they get to me that may be able to sneak away and I love that thing that you say I didn't have a room of my own but I had an hour of my own
00:12:57you took it to this kind of like almost like performance art Gonzo extreme sports level and I could see people saying I'm going to get up and I'm going to tell the truth I'm going to do that and then you would hit send and put it into the world that day the Deep honest truth about what it felt like for you that day to be who you are on Earth with those kids with that husband with that chaotic mind with those responsibilities with this anguish with these fears like you did something that was so ferociously wild I mean I'm sure you've gotten blowback and I'm sure you've gotten Chris I know you guys are sometimes but I also know that more than that far more than that what you've gotten is that enormous chorus of me too me too me too
00:13:55the best magic so much of what happened on this season I felt was people saying that they didn't want to do something till they were good at I had people who are sort of addicted to taking classes in the thing that they want to do and I had people who have done it but they're refusing to show it to anybody I've had people who collected all the material over the years but they can't quite bring themselves to make the thing and I'm fascinated by this idea that somehow in this culture or produce anything until you're already good at it and what you did was so the opposite of that that I wonder if you could sort of speak and Riff on that idea if I think of my writing as kind of parallel to a recovery meeting I mean that's not fair your stuff and it's out there right and that's part of like staying in the light staying and being sober is like
00:14:55can just keep it to yourself but it also kept me from ever consider a terrible way to Burton making sure everything was perfect like all I had to do was do what I promised myself which is so out so my butt in the chair back to work and Prescott's no matter what but you are not like that and when somebody misunderstand it right back to that person and explain yourself quit because they're not artists they quit cuz they're not weird because they didn't like making the thing they quit because they can't handle defending the faith
00:15:55artist and they're terrible lawyers
00:15:58because they think they're bad lawyer they missed mistakenly think they're bad artists follow it around the babysitter and then you're making it in your back to the beginning again so all you are and is contemplation and creation you're not in the business of doing the post-mortem I have this language is that time is not something that you find it something that you make and so I wondered if you could talk as a mother of three who was getting up everyday at 4:30 in the morning to write about how you do that like how you decide that it is more worth it for you to make those hours that it is for you to sleep and I would imagine that sleeping my dad on your list of priorities at this point
00:16:58I felt like there's going to be some huge answer to that question like some big groundbreaking spiritual answer to like how does a mom find time and not so for me what it was is I had to stop watching TV at night then like any big spiritual Epiphany that I have you have to just not give anyone any snacks you know and if you want to have what you want to have which is a creative life if they give up this hour of TV
00:17:54if I'm going to bed at night and it wasn't so bad to get up at 4 and honestly this is the fundamental question about why do humans make things why is it so important for you to do this who are you without it who are you with it what does it do to you what does it do for you care why you bother
00:18:19what's the answer to that I think I am really really desperate to be known
00:18:25I think I could really want to be known to be seen you know like I have all of these thoughts and ideas and dreams and fears and for whatever reason I just need people to say I see you I don't even listen to say I like you and somebody went to the who said the definition of an artist is anybody who walks around saying don't erase me just don't erase me I need to know that I'm here I need to feel that you know that I'm here
00:18:59China and like my favorite were my favorite scripture that I have written in my new 40 year old is my sister. Me when I turn 40 is here I am like I just there's something about where I am and I think it's such an important thing for women to feel it's okay to like how can I just tell you how much I'm loving this answer because I have to give you my honest response when you first said I want to be seen like I had a little wince of like I kind of want your answer to be like I don't care if anyone ever knows or sees it I just do it for the it's okay that she was in my God how many women never get known and seen suddenly I realized that's a very brave and very honest answer and one that maybe people are allowed to say because they're afraid
00:19:59things you did as narcissistic or entitled where is a title mints course of weird that I'm always trying to reclaim for the good but I like that you made me a little uncomfortable but it's okay it's okay don't like the more personal you get the more Universal it is it's deeper you go into yourself the more everybody else you see themselves in you freaking it's about you freaking amazing your child of God made of Stardust can also make sure this is the really interesting nice Edge to walk on which is when people get that Revelation that I'm not that big a deal
00:20:59I forgot to say has already been lived nothing is very special they tend to shut down and say therefore it's pointless for me to try to create it won't show how do you walk that line I'm just the same as everybody else absolutely nothing special and I need to put this out there everybody can stay the same things every single person has a different voice so like if the truth is that let you know we can do hard things are like love wins there's a million different ways to say that in the way that I say it might doesn't it was somebody else so strongly they can start for the first time and was the way you say it wakes up this particular person and somebody else does it
00:21:49so you just hear yourself you know how like when you're in like a tunnel and you make the noise and you hear yourself you just said something to me about the most common questions that we get in the book signing line and because you came out of the blogosphere of bugs out of so the question that so often comes at you and book signing lines are people saying how do I get to where you are I would like to have a million people reading my blog how do I get a bigger platform how do I get more attention how do I get more followers how do I get more likes and you said something that was so lovely to me you get a bigger platform by serving the platform you already have by serving the few people who are already listening to can you explain in more detail what happened to your frustration with that question I found really interesting
00:22:49interesting with social media and promotions game show your ID to take know your audience and right so I've never committed I've never done any of that but what I have done is served the people who show up so like when my blood was like 14 followers I was doing the exact same thing as it as I'm doing now and there's no answer like same thing like this thing is I'm doing now and it's such an honor like this social media if you have the opportunity
00:23:49what you put out there will change their day because what we want love if you can want light and people want encryption and if you give them that he wake up every morning and thinks Unity guess what happened like they want to share the light it's so they share you don't try to get other people you do not try to get other people to you
00:24:30we're going to take a quick break and when we come back we're going to hear more from Glennon about her latest project in the courage that it took her to bring it forth into the world but first word from our sponsors
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00:27:53so can we have a little bit of a kind of conversation about your books that just came out script your new book Love Warrior and I know you was my friend I know you as my chosen sister I know you as a writer who I admire and activists in the world really well like as a consumer made the dangerous mistake that people so often make the creators of thinking I know what I'm getting into with this book it's going to be self-deprecating it's going to be funny it's going to be revealing it's going to be spiritual but I didn't know was the depth of soul and pain that you were ready with this book to reach into and the Mastery of writing you know that the next step of writing that this book talk and the next step of honesty that this book Tuck and I wrote a book about marriage
00:28:53spent years studying marriage to try to figure out how to make sense of marriage just try to feel like how to be comfortable with this institution that makes me inherently nervous and that once again for the second time in my life as you know I have not been able to stick with you know and even after trying to become a master of understanding marriage I still just failed another I just know this thing is really hard and an even after all the research that I did on the origin of matrimony when I read Love Warrior I thought this is the first really honest book that I read about marriage and
00:29:41I wondered if you could just speak about that where you went with that book and what you had to reach into to do what you did
00:29:52is that I got married right after I got sober right away right away and replace my identity as a drunk with mom and wife and then that was better and healthier and like all my people were proud of me and I wasn't feeling good about myself and the beginner radar and I was about to go on tour with my first book with it about marriage and having a family until right before I was going to therapy with my husband and he told me that he has been peeing on Facebook
00:30:38I never saw it coming at all and I always have people who said they didn't see it coming or like a little slow but I didn't know it was like that it was just going right after I thought of you know because because I feel like left bottom is this place that feels like it's an eviction from your life like you had this before life and then this eviction it's whatever there's like you can't ever go back before and after it so it's like the phone call after which they will always be a before-and-after and so what I learned though and I really believe it up so hard to believe in the eviction from our life come unless they're also invitations until I get through her identity right so
00:31:38it was replaced by wife and mother
00:31:41and I was better that's the problem with that I wasn't sure and ask because you know when and we Define ourselves by our role and she says she'll tell you so which in this terrible eviction was invitation like what the hell like what what do I need to learn about myself um I finished ruler and longer-lasting then wife and mother so I figured out I am a child of God
00:32:41disqualify me for that no one can give or feel you know that no one's opinion of me will change like I'm a child of God and that's all I will defend myself I for the rest of my life and you know I have all these sex issues related to being a woman in this culture and have the right to like when they're Trinity wall Trinity for Body Mind and Spirit and the healthiest of us live our lives at the body lies with the vines my spirit so we can see the messages about our body
00:33:33early I'm leaving to go to my Feeling Anymore see our bodies are so desired we don't know how to desire only know how to be wanted we don't even know how we forget to care about
00:34:01and so so basically my one of my therapist one of my therapist was like
00:34:07don't your body back on the island we going to make you whole again and I was like that sounds really hard do you have any motels he was like no out of our bodies early on vacation. About their emotions right because Boys Don't Cry please don't care whatever it is that you know we married these people and like they're kind of like what their bodies and we can't feel that love cuz we're not there and like we're kind of love done with our minds but they don't live there and to look at the freaking missing each other and so it's like everything you learn about masculinity and femininity and our culture's keeps us from like
00:35:07now and things you have to try to love someone you just have to unlearn so much and start over and so I could hear it all down in like I'm on everything that I had swallowed about what it means to be a woman and it's closer and get down to who I really am and what I really want to figure out that she knows what to do and how to like bring that voice to the surface and start
00:35:44living my life in accordance what she wants
00:35:48what's going on
00:35:52what struck me when I was reading it was not just the honesty but the Curiosity and compassion that you brought to yourself and to your marriage getting tossed getting past self-hatred getting past all sorts of Senses of how things should be you did what I think of a sort of the ultimate creative Journey cuz I think so successful creative Journey happens without a trace amount of patience and a tremendous amount of curiosity to just try you know on to just see like what would it be like to try to do this what would it be like to try to understand that's what would like to try feel this and you are so much more interested in getting to the truth and you were in trying to be right that there's this Beating Heart and that book that I just have never seen the likes of and it's how I think of you as somebody who just consistently care so much more
00:36:52about her curiosity for the truth then she does about her position or her status or how she's perceived Noah and because of that you just keep being Really Brave again and again and again and there's a softness and curiosity Poncho word sometimes like there's any for any out, like I don't know how this is going to go I don't know what's going to happen when I say to my husband what happens if we just tell each other the truth you know I don't know what I'm going to hear what he's going to say I don't know if I don't know if any of its going to work but I want you to know I think of you
00:37:46I know you don't want to be labeled as anything other than a child of God but I think of you as a child of God and Explorer of Truth
00:37:58I mean the people I love and respect are not the people who are always why do you like me are you kidding me ever ever ever really meant metaphor
00:38:28contact me all the time Liz if they stay open every time someone says something to me on the internet every time someone kept me up like they open and the more that's what all the girls I always say go back in and then go back and go back in my friends are encouraging me to have Painful difficult conversations and I'm like that said the hard thing it never ends on the stay open go back in that's what it means to be curious that's what it means to be creative the other reason I wanted to talk about love Warrior is because as I'm done
00:39:28to show people what it looks like to be really Brave and how it never ends you did this extraordinary Li creative and courageous thing living through your marriage infidelity the way that you did and approaching it with curiosity and compassion and trying to figure out how to learn from it instead of shutting down and bitterness and creative Thing by writing a really open and honest and searching book about that and then you said another really creepy thing on the heels of book coming out that is about saving your marriage
00:40:04tell us what happened so so so
00:40:14three months before then no I'm sorry yes 3 months before the release
00:40:24has these things happen for me as I stated it in but it is just more of just like this knowing that arises inside of me that I can't unknow so she said she gave it to a friend and her friend said what is it about and she said it's about trust and her friend said is it about trust in a marriage and Benny said no it's a lot of trust and that is to me while I'm worried about so if I had to find like what's that journey of the warrior thing for me is being able to listen to this voice inside of us but knows what to do like if you ever be still tattoo it on myself
00:41:11another one of my favorite scriptures like you still and know there is a voice inside of us
00:41:19every person and it doesn't freaking matter what you call it what do you call it God or Intuition or the still Small Voice I ever heard you call the Sebastian what matters is that there is a voice and every time we say we don't know what to do if it's just because we don't want to do the thing that we know we have to do right and so for me Liz this is all I know is that I can't freaking spend any more time in my life to train myself right so for me some of the trail is allowing if your voice sound out the still small voice
00:42:06all of a sudden I just knew that America needed to end and it wasn't in an angry way and it wasn't in a dramatic way it was this way of oh my God
00:42:19we have responded to all of the stuff together and we were put together for a reason and we did help make each other hole in ways that we probably wouldn't have ever been without each other and we have these beautiful children and yes
00:42:38and oh my God to know that and realize
00:42:44still small voice
00:42:55it doesn't like to listen to her like that's all I have to do in this freaking life and listen to my knowing and do what she says so I just you know did what I've learned to do Liz which is listen to that voice and then make it my own right so I listen to that was long enough. My husband I love you and we are going to have to let each other in a different way because we aren't married anymore
00:43:26it was a terrible hard conversation and some ways and in some ways it was the most beautiful conversation I've ever had
00:43:38you gave me the most Selfless Love I've ever received and I'm going to return that to you now
00:43:47so what the last few months have been about is him returning to me but I gave him a few years ago when he actually showed me who he was and I made it out of my job test
00:44:02I know what it is what it is I don't know if it's like putting your ego aside for a minute and I guess it's curiosity I guess it's even walking through this together is like unbelievable that timing like everyone in my life can you imagine you're coming out with a marriage book in 3 months but it was really really good but almost everyone in your life thinks it's really bad timing your friend Liz Gilbert was like this is so beautiful because this is a book that was all about what a marriage really is and this is also what that's about and you are going to serve so many more people with this completely true next chapter of the story no being revealed then by people thinking this is a book called how to save your marriage 10 steps by Glennon Doyle Melton which never was ever that.
00:45:02how to set yourself in one step listen to interview so and I know that you got such static and fear and anxiety from professional people in your life and from Publishers and from ages in from all these people who are invested in the product that you made of this book and I have never loved you more than I love you right now for Having the courage and the integrity and the Glennon this to this is now the accurate updated story that story that I published was the accurate updated story as of the moment of the completionist book you know I will live outside of the accurate and updated story of who I am
00:45:54and this is how it's going to be and that it was also just very helpful for me because as you know here I am the author of Eat Pray Love a romantic and beautiful and exactly pretty much the same time as you I had to make an announcement saying that my marriage to that lovely Brazilian man has ended and I remember somebody saying to me it was so weird like a close friend when I told them that I was getting divorced said how are you going to tell your fans like it's going to do like are you sure this is a good idea like almost like are you sure this is a good career and I said I had so many reasons that I wanted that marriage to last and satisfying fans and Publishers was not even on the list FYI
00:46:54is what I was told them what happened and actually has been very loving and beautiful as as I know what to do before you for trying to be creative for trying to be honest we're trying to have integrity and this is what it looks like today for may I ask where you are learning it's not John Steinbeck said now that you don't have to be perfect you can beat me up but I'm going to take it another level something that I heard our dear friend and brother Rob Bell's wife Kristen say she said it with this look on her face that just like I saw it like sent a bolt of electricity through my heart she said I am so tired of being good and now all I want is to be free
00:47:54to the freaking men she took it one step further from Starbucks so just like let's do this Evolution now that you don't have to be perfect you can be good so John Steinbeck and then Kristen Bell says now that you don't have to be good you can be free like constructed and free it's different for everybody oh my God that's all I want to see I know I'm watching you do it it's making me feel like everything is life is possible it's making me more Brave I love watching you do it and I love sorting out with you until I don't know what I'd do without you I don't know what I did and luckily we have we have not been asked to try to fix
00:48:54look I just thank you for everything that you are and everything that you do and for just modeling purchased for the millions of people who follow you reach you but for really intimately and molecular level showing me again and again what it looks like to have integrity and I love you for it and I just am grateful that you're a child of God at the same time I am forever and ever and I want to do something that I ask you to do something that I asked you to do last year you don't know specifically the stories of the artist
00:49:54spittoon awfulest to poets a dancer a Storyteller comedian and photographer who came on the podcast this year and with the most outrageous vulnerability just shared their fears and their obstacles and their dreams and their processes and their victories in their failures in this incredibly open way but you do know them because they are us they are our tribe and they are part of who we are and what we're all about magic lessons I could ask you to offer a sort of benediction in a prayer for them and for everybody like them who is trying to make and be in the world and I knew and honest of revolutionary way
00:50:42I think of every morning when the drunk and holy night going to drug addict and I'm completely last 15 years no work candidate for motherhood than I am right there's nobody on Earth it was less prepared or less qualified to be a mother writes right now and yet invitation
00:51:20I think about that every time I'm trying to make something new every time I'm trying to decide whether I'm going to show up because all of us are always on the floor right always in the bathroom for always holding some kind of invitation from the universe and we are arguing with the invitation was saying I'm not good enough I need to take another class I need to lose 10 pounds I need you to more research I need any more like her I need you to listen to my mom we are giving ourselves Unworthy of invitations and says disgusting the entire invitation don't wait till you're ready to step up and dance with me
00:52:14until the whole entire everything on Earth
00:52:18everything beautiful in the picture the world has been made by people who show up before the ready
00:52:26so that would be more than addiction let's just stop giving ourselves on wedding invitations to create and let's just start dropping the inviter and let's all just show up before I love you Glennon I love you Liz Forever by
00:52:59Glennon Doyle Melton my great friend is an author and activist and a public speaker and of course her new extraordinary Love Warrior which came out this month she's also the founder of an online community called momastery and threw that she also founded a terrific non-profit called together Rising Sun Prairie probably part of which is raised millions of dollars for families in need all over the world
00:53:28so that is it for this episode of magic lessons and this season of magic lessons it's been wonderful as always going on this very curious journey of Exploration with all of you I thank you for Lending your ears and your hearts to this project and I hope that all of you feel emboldened and inspired to go out and make whatever is calling you to make it become whatever you are being called to be and that most of all you will as we constantly try to remind you here not ever choose your fear over your curiosity
00:54:03magic lessons is a production of the maximum fun Network Michelle Siegel is are extraordinary producer or theme music is by Dave Cahill and it was performed by Dave Cahill and Dallas VA special thanks to Paul ruest of Argo Studios and Jesse thorn of Maximum fun you can hear all the episodes and find out a lot more about my comings and goings at Elizabeth Gilbert. Com and of course if you want to continue your own exploration to creativity which I really hope you will do it might help you to pick up my book which is called Big magic creative living beyond fear published by Riverhead books and it is coming out in paperback this very weak if you can please leave us a comment on iTunes that helps other people discover the show and we appreciate it and let's get this conversation going on Facebook and Twitter I'm at Gilbert please thank you again so much for listening and we'll see you next year
00:54:59what's the deal with brexit please sing Happy Valley British people pronounce Edinburgh light Chester or Norwich books has hot holding coronation straight what's Coronation Street and why is Dave Holmes obsessed with it support knife to hear the best comedians in the World Trade jokes and stories and maybe even learn something at the same time you download podcasts
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