Full Transcript for Our Coaching Pre-Requisites For Getting Shredded

that's why I have a coach. That's why you trust the process and just take boxes and just and just do the work. Jeremiah Bair: I love it. Cool. All right. Let's get into our prerequisites for getting shredded. so really how I would look at this is like a common question I get will be like, hey, why is this person in a photo shoot prep? I know like that's the goal for myself as well, but you're telling me I'm not ready for that yet. Like, why are we in a building phase or primer phase? Why am I not ready for that phase? so really want to talk through again, like kind of the things we're looking for. To ensure that a client is prepared for that to get the best outcome possible. The goal isn't just like to get the client as lean as possible, it is to create the best possible outcome, which ties into where your biofeedback is at, where our muscle mass is at, et cetera, going into a process like that. So again, let's kind of talk through what we would consider the prerequisites to get shredded. kick things off. I think one of the most important things. is going to be the amount of muscle mass the client has. Probably the biggest variable here that determines do we get a great result or do you just look like a stick figure for the photo shoot or whatever we do. Probably the biggest one most people are missing. So I would say, like again, let's let's talk like a photo shoot process, or you guys could think like contest prep as well. Would y'all say typically you have a pretty people spend a pretty good amount of time in a building phase prior to that? Or is it often you will like bring someone in, hey, right away we go into a photo shoot process before having gone through like a building phase? Andrea: I only can think of one time where we went directly into a photo shoot prep and it was a continuation of what they had already started on their own and a coach themselves. Jeremiah Bair: Mm-hmm. Andrea: every single other time and definitely my preference is to have somebody build first and One reason is to build muscle. Another reason is to get familiar with them as a client and to also know for certain that that's something that they're ready for. Like their adherence level is there and they're someone who is going to be consistently checking the boxes. Jeremiah Bair: Yeah, for sure. I think seeing how someone operates through that will really give you a good insight into like how they're able to operate as a whole. I find like someone can't manage like a building phase fairly well. Something like getting into the depths of diet and trying to get extremely ripped rarely goes super well either. What about you in terms of the photo shoots, Natalie? Jeremiah Is Small: I've only had one. and that was Rochelle somewhat recently. And that was never supposed to be a photo shoot. Like when I brought her on, you know, we went through primer phase and I wanted to lean her out, and that was her goal as well. She's like, Rochelle is Rochelle is funny because she's like, I don't really care about fat loss. Like I always get kind of bored. So I that's why I need coaching, because I need someone to like hold me accountable and just Make me stick with it. Not because I can't stick with it, but just because like I I get bored and I'm like, yeah, girl, same. Like it's the fat loss side of things, like outside of contest prep, I know I spoke about this before, just like doesn't hold a lot of interest for me as an athlete. as a coach, I love like coaching the whole process. as an athlete, like I just want to build all the time. Like build or prep, that's it. but Once we got going with Rochelle, we were able to build a bit through like the early stages just because, you know, she was with a coach now and we'd like optimize things and like, you know, fix some training. and then as she started to lean out, the conversation just became like, Hey, actually, is this something you'd be interested in? And of course, like the leaner she got and the more we were able to kind of optimize training and build further, we knew she had a good amount of muscle mass. So there was gonna be a good outcome. And I think also psychologically, kind of what you were speaking to Jeremiah in terms of how the client approaches and handles themselves during the building phase will tell us a lot in terms of athlete maturity. So a big red flag for me would be the whole when can we cut, when can we cut? When can we cut? Like when are we gonna photo shoot prep? When are we gonna photo shoot prep? Whereas the best outcomes I've seen from our clients are those who are totally on board for the entire process. And Jeremiah Bair: For sure. Jeremiah Is Small: because they're so into it and on board and r honestly for the love of the game, I know it's gonna be a good outcome for a photo shoot prep. Which is important Jeremiah Bair: Yeah. Jeremiah Is Small: because we're pushing harder and further than we would for just a lifestyle cut at that point. Jeremiah Bair: That's a very good insight. I always like it's never the people who are in a huge rush to get into fat loss ASAP who give the best outcomes. Because I think it is just hey, like we're enjoying the building phase, we're able to be super consistent with it. I was just talking to Kaelin, it's coach Kalen, about this yesterday because I mean she's made so much progress in our building phase, and we've extended that timeline. Like initially, she had wanted like right now to be like we've gone through a build and a cut, and we I basically pushed her like. Hey, we're gonna push the building phase back until basically we're gonna continue to like the end of the year and then get into fat loss. And like she's built so much. I'm so excited to uncover that. But she's like managed this whole phase so well as well. So I know like I've only spent like three weeks actually in fat loss with her the entire t time we've worked together. But just based on how well she's been able to manage this, I know that

she's gonna be able to nail that as well. So I do think it's a yeah, it's a this very good way to like start understanding adherence as well. Now, speaking to Rochelle, She had a lot of muscle. Even like her coming in, just based on muscularity, adherence aside, like your or your lack of knowledge about her adherence aside, just like looking at a physique, would you have felt good about taking her into a photo shoot rep? Jeremiah Is Small: I think I probably would have. But I would need to go through the checklist that we're gonna go through today for all of the other adherence markers, like biofeedback, like all of those things. But in terms of muscle mass, you know, if there were some bizarre scenario where I like knew everything about Rochelle prior to her coming on, if I, you know, just assessing her physique, I would have felt pretty good about it. But then also you know, as a coach, like I w want to I yeah, I'm gonna leave it there. Yes. Jeremiah Bair: Yeah, okay, cool. I'll say like I have like Kathy, who I just finished a photo shoot prep with. We just basically we did a primer slash body recomp type phase like eight weeks and hopped into fat loss. But she had shown me goal physique for the for the photo shoot versus currently she's a coach herself, she's been training a long time. Had a decent amount of muscle. We've already added a lot more, but she had a decent amount of muscle. So just based on that, I was like, dude, like we can get a way better result. if this is like what you want and then build, push it further. So again, like there is there's other elements to this, but having a prerequisite amount of muscle mass, I would say, is so important. especially if you're not someone who's trained well, trained hard for a long period of time, probably not gonna get the best outcome if we hop right into a sh into a prep. Jeremiah Is Small: I think it could be interesting too if you take on an experienced by experienced I mean training age. You know, trains really well, trains hard, already a good amount of muscle mass, and they're like not too far off the goal because a lot of coaches will want photo shoots for marketing purposes, which is understandable. So if they're not too far off the goal, I think it could work if you're like Like, yeah, okay, let's like lean you out now. We're not that far away. Let's push, lean you out, do a shoot. And then reverse you and do the entire process and do another shoot a year and a half later. Because then we can, like, you know, we're starting from a lean place, we can build you, and then you're gonna have something new a year and a half, two years down the road to uncover. And as a coach, you can also document the entire process along the way, which you know, clients enjoy Jeremiah Bair: Yeah. Jeremiah Is Small: seeing and you're walking the walk and all of those things. But of course, that does require some buy-in and commitment. commitment from the client, you know, making sure that's a good coaching relationship and they're, you know, down for this much longer term process would Jeremiah Bair: Yeah, yeah, no, that's that's such a common process. Like Lindsay Mundy, that's like exactly what we've gone through. She more or less started in photo shoot prep, did a long building phase, she got such a better result for the did another photo shoot prep. She got such a better result. She we had so much more muscle, but that's like two plus years of us coaching together now. That is very cool to see. Andrea, go ahead. Andrea: No, I was just gonna say Daniela, that's exactly what she did as well. She didn't diet right away, but we did like a longer primer face and then dieted Jeremiah Bair: Mm-hmm. Andrea: and she just is impromptu was like, Well, how about I do a photo shoot now? We were planning on it being a more of a long term thing. she's like, I'm gonna do one now and then after we build I can do another one and I think that's so fun, 'cause then we can compare the two, like you said. Dani: I th I think that was more I guess what I was thinking like, all right, what is the goal of the photo shoot? You know, what what is the purpose? And then also what is the plan for after the photo shoot? You know, what's what's or not the photo shoot but just getting shredded, right? 'Cause that's not that shouldn't just be the end point, right? What is what Jeremiah Bair: Yeah, that's true. Dani: is the plan for what is the exit strategy for for coming out of that and then what's what's the yeah, what what's the purpose afterwards? 'Cause that also needs to be thought out, otherwise clients can absolutely derail and go go completely the other way. Jeremiah Bair: Yeah. No, that's a good point. I think a better way to put it than how I initially did, which was just like make sure we have a lot of muscle is make sure we have sufficient tissue to support the goal we want for the photo shoot, basically. And then we can again continue to anything else on in terms of muscle mass? How do we know if we have enough muscle mass, et cetera, before we continue down this checklist? Cool. All right. Talking in terms of body fat levels, Danny, I'm gonna kick this one over to you first. How lean, like do you want someone at a fairly lean point before we would start a phase like this? Do you are you like, hey, take as fat as like as fat as we are, if we need to pull pull off like fifty pounds, that's fine. Is there like kind of a starting point you want for people, or does it really matter? Dani: What before we go into a building phase? Right. Jeremiah Bair: into like a fat loss phase. So again, like let's say we're like trying to get shredded. Do you are you good with starting someone fluffy or do you want to like run a like diet maintain for a while, then we have this process? Dani: I would like to Diet maintained for a while again from an adherence point of view and making sure that they have that structure. But then I'm also looking for feedback in terms of

training and the gym. Like how is how is our performance? How is our lifestyle? You know, I don't want to get them to the point where sleep is disrupted and you know there's other things suffering. I still want them feeling pretty, pretty good. but again, the leaner that we can get a c get someone, the more insulin sensitive that they're gonna be. But then also you want them still feeling motivated in the gym and being able to push hard. so I I I couldn't give you g necessarily give you a number because I think it's very individual. but if someone has if if someone has a lot a lot to lose then I would say like let's let's get that get that down first. And also I think that helps get buy-in from someone, you know, a big a big part of the coaching relationship is is trust, right? And so part of that I think is right, if you can get a if you can get someone Pretty lean, right? And they trust the process, you know, then they're gonna trust you to take them into that building phase, which Jeremiah Bair: Right. Dani: I think is quite scary, especially for, I mean, it's scary for men too, but I think it's also scary for women. Like that's that's a hard thing, seeing the scale number go up, Jeremiah Bair: For sure. Dani: and being like, no, this is a good thing, this is fine. I think we all we all get it as competitors, but it's still it's still pretty challenging. You know, I still struggle with it. Jeremiah Bair: Sure. I think the your process over the last couple of weeks, I don't know why I've said process so many times this episode already. Your last couple months here, you got diced, we brought you brought weight back up a decent amount, and then you're pushing to get lean again. Is probably a good example of this, even if someone isn't like you're gonna be very peeled, obviously, Dani: No, yeah. Jeremiah Bair: but like even if we're not pushing to get as lean as you are for your show, like the point you brought up to they you guys brought your own body fat back up to, was that just like, hey, this is where biofeedback is good, this is where I feel solid, or what was like what determined, okay, now we're gonna stop pushing food back up, or was that purely just timeline to the next shell? Dani: it was timeline to the next show, but also getting that getting that peeled is not healthy, right? Like you know, like things suffer, like cycles gone. I think a big big part of building muscle, you know, that's that's demanding on the body, that's taxing on the body. And if you're not in a good place, if if you're not in a place of good health, then it's very hard to lose fat, build muscle, right? So again, kind of going back to what we do a lot. lot with our clients, right, is starting off in that primer phase, right? Again, making sure that all the boxes are ticked and t ticked in terms of biofeedback, sleep, lifestyle, all that stuff. So pushing my calories kind of back up to to that phase, I think, allowed that. My coach will give me some stick, but I did get my cycle back, so it is yay. But again just and that just also gives me more longevity, you know. in this in this sport, and a little bit of a mental reprieve, to then lock in again. 'Cause otherwise I will have been in prep from well, I've been in prep since January and this next show's not 'til November. That's a full year. So Jeremiah Bair: That's a pretty good time. Dani: Yeah, so again, it's like f factoring in those like psychological factors. You know, it's it's one thing to just, you know, look at look at data and just, you know, act like we're all, you know, robots, but there's also the human factor to that, which is something that I think is really important that we, you know, obviously take into account with with clients, you know, what's gonna what's the what's gonna keep them consistent. Jeremiah Bair: Give some of that other, Andrea. Andrea: Yeah, going back to like how lean we want someone before we get into the photo shoot prep, I think that that's a huge part of it is the mental aspect of it. Very few of us can push for like forty to fifty weeks on end in a continuous fat loss phase. And so if we can get down to where we can see you know, so a little bit of shoulder cap, a little bit of quad separation, a little bit of ab lines as a starting point, then have them rest there before we go into the bigger photo shoot fat loss phase push. they're they're typically going to finish up stronger mentally. and also we've all talked about in the past, the the leaner someone is, the less wiggle room they have. just in terms of adherence and like the things have to be turned up to the next dial in order to continue making more progress. And so if they're out of gas mentally by the end of it, then they're probably gonna hit a pretty hard sticking point because they don't have any room for error there at the end. Jeremiah Bair: Yeah. I couldn't agree more. We most ideal situation we're already quite lean, probably not below what's sustainable. We still feel good, body feedback is good. But the smaller the gap between b current body fat levels, goal body fat levels, the better our outcomes are gonna be. Anything else to add there, Natalie, before we continue? Nice, okay. Skill set, client skill set, adherence, and mindset, which are things we have already touched on. A bit. Biggest thing is we are going to going to want to be able to see that this person can really adhere. This is something that I really like to set up in the first couple weeks of coaching. I think of a couple clients I have right now who like we're not even pushing for fat loss yet, but it's like, hey, I want to see you just follow the meal plan extremely closely for the first couple weeks and even like asking for substitutions where it's like normally this wouldn't be a big deal. But I just want you, and I would be good with that, but I want you to just show me you can execute on the plan before we adjust because there is gonna be a time to get to the goal that you

want where you're just gonna have to be able to execute for weeks on end when we don't necessarily feel like it. So I wanna like set us up for success. I wanna see like what level we can execute at right now before we're in the point where it really hurts, we're really digging. that's before I'm gonna take if I see like someone can't do that and just execute extremely consistently. We're just gonna have a bad time. We're not gonna get to the outcome. We're not gonna be able to get as lean as we want for something like a photo shoot prep. So that's gonna be like the biggest thing I'm looking for here is how well do we adhere? And I can that's kind of carries into the entire I can't think of another word to describe this except for process right now. The entire process so well, like our training, our nutrition, are we consistent with all those things? But what else are you guys looking for here in terms of skill set, adherence, even mindset? Andrea: Also, I I would say ability to be resilient whenever things come up. Like if there's some fatigue, are we still able to follow through on everything? if plans change or you know, your your meal prep bag gets left out and everything's bad, like can we pivot and make the decisions that still follow through on your programming without kind of losing your head? It's there's yeah. Jeremiah Is Small: Not catastrophizing inconvenience. Andrea: Yeah, that's a good way to say it. Jeremiah Bair: I think in general that's just such an important skill set to have when it comes to physique development. Kinda the same as all or nothing thinking. Go ahead, Natalie. Jeremiah Is Small: It's not that coaching isn't a collaboration, of course it is. I always tell my clients, I want you to be eating foods you enjoy. Like there's I'm not gonna force anything down your throat. But the clients who are I think the clients who are most successful in a photo shoot or a contest prep have a do what is needed mindset. And are not looking to be entertained or coddled with the plan, you know, like, I'm really low energy, I'm Are we gonna have a refeed, you know? Or I'm getting really bored of this meal. It's like, well the photo shoot process isn't necessarily about entertainment. I mean, ideally you you're into the process. Like I said earlier, for the love of the game, right? That's the entertainment. We're not, you know, kind of trying to outsource that entertainment for like the dopamine hits of a meal plan change, a refeed, a training novelty. So to your point, Jeremiah, understanding early on where we are on the adherence scale in terms of can you just follow a plan? I think that honestly that primer phase that we take our clients through is so enlightening for me as a coach in terms of the client's readiness for change. That's not to say I need to know you can just be a robot and just do whatever I ask of you, but I think just the the way that they mentally, psychologically, emotionally approach that primer phase or the plan that you give them is just so telling for how a process will go. Jeremiah Bair: Everybody's the same process so much now. Truly, Andrea: Yeah. Jeremiah Bair: truly though, again, and it's not just coaching isn't just hey do what I say, don't ask questions. But that's such a good way to put it, like the I will do what is needed mindset. The people who can get the outcomes are just those where it's, hey, we're gonna make this adjustment, cool, and the person just executes it, right? There's not a like, but what if we do this instead or This came up this week and then the next week this came up and it's like, dude, it's four weeks in and we still haven't done the thing. that's such a good way to frame that. Okay. Anything else in terms of skill set mindset from y'all? Jeremiah Is Small: Skill set. Dani: I was gonna say attitude. sorry. Yeah, just well kinda Jeremiah Bair: Go ahead, Danny. Dani: kinda going on what like when Natalie was saying, like if they're if a if they're complaining, you know, about about a nitpicking everything, then about the meal plan, or like, this is really hard, or I'm just really, really tired. You know, not that I'm not listening, but again, it g it it tells me a lot about their like, you know, what we're talking about, their resilience, but also their their ability to stick to the plan. But also like it's it's not even hard yet. You know, it's not even that hard yet. But you know, even even when I have to dig deep. I think when we all have to dig deep, I think we all have to kind of talk to ourselves and be like, you know what, we we get to do this, you know? What a privilege. What a privilege to be in a position where we get to do this and put ourselves through through this: a photo shoot prep, contest prep. and I think that's that's something that I have to remind my clients of. and myself on occasion. Jeremiah Bair: I was just talking to a client about that today. Like, think of what a privilege it is that the hardest thing in your life this week was that you are voluntarily dieting to get leaner because you want to look a little more rip, like you have a pretty good life. on a similar note, I would say s ability to sit with hunger and being okay with some hunger is huge. And this is a normal thing to have to work through. Like there are many clients where we have to work on hunger and just like not catastrophizing hunger and not making hunger in an emergency for a long time. And sometimes go through like multiple diets before we're really okay with like, it's okay to feel this. My life isn't over. I find sometimes and again, I don't I don't ever wanna just negate like the client experience, but I do find a lot of times people can almost like Overassociate hunger with a drop in energy levels, training, performance, etc. Like tell themselves, like, man, we're like a week into the diet, my training really sucked, and like I was just super low energy, and it's a lot of times like, hey, we are not at the point where we

should like physiologically be expecting this to happen yet. Again, I'm not trying to catastrophize or not trying to negate these feelings, but we might want to examine this a little bit more and sit with like, okay, does this have to be true for me? Is this really dietary? Is this again like have we like been telling ourselves prior to entering the diet or we're like telling ourselves a story that we're just gonna be super low energy every day and that kind of becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy? But a lot of times there's like some things to work through there before someone can really like manage getting shredded well. Anything else on this front? Jeremiah Is Small: Productive coping mechanisms. Jeremiah Bair: Elaborate on that. Jeremiah Is Small: Like the ability to productively cope and regulate emotions and I Jeremiah Bair: Mm-hmm. Jeremiah Is Small: would put hunger in that as well. So just being able to sit with discomfort because you're gonna be tired, you're gonna be hungry, and understanding again, not catastrophizing those things. I suppose I was on the fence with saying the ability to disassociate, it really does help. I know that's not always a positive thing, but sure helps me. Andrea: Yeah. Jeremiah Bair: Ha ha ha. Jeremiah Is Small: but Andrea: Mm. Jeremiah Is Small: a little glimpse into my psychology. Andrea: Yeah. Jeremiah Is Small: But Jeremiah Bair: Yeah, it's gonna get gonna get dark if we follow this path Andrea: Yeah. Jeremiah Bair: too much. Jeremiah Is Small: That's right, that's right. I'm dieting guys back off. no, but the ability to just self regulate and and productively cope. not turning to food for entertainment, you know, I'm bored, I'm hungry, I'm tired. like let me you know, go out to eat. I deserve this, you know, things of that nature. I think it takes just a lot of emotional maturity to recognize emotions and physiological sensations like hunger or low energy and just call them for what they are and nothing more. Jeremiah Bair: Mm-hmm. Jeremiah Is Small: I I like to say adopt a yoga mindset, like observe without judgment. It's like I acknowledge I observe these thoughts and feelings. Mm-hmm. Jeremiah Bair: That's a yoga thing? That's beautiful. okay. Okay. Jeremiah Is Small: I I'm told. As a non yogi, that's what I hear. Jeremiah Bair: Okay, okay, fair enough. Cool. Anything else here? Alright, caloric intake. Is there a certain place you want people's food to be in terms of hey, this person can maintain on like X amount of calories? I know it's hard to throw out a specific number there. I guess I would ask more for like red flags. Anything y'all are looking for here? Fancy energy, I think you'd be a good one to kick this off for us. Andrea: it I I don't know if I can give a number because it's so specific to the person. Jeremiah Is Small: Five thousand calories. Andrea: even Jeremiah Bair: At least five thousand calories. Andrea: even like per Jeremiah Is Small: Maintenance. Andrea: per body weight, it's just so individual. Like there's freaks like Janae who eats a ton of food in her build phase and still like keeps her food quite high in her diet phase. And then people on the opposite end of the spectrum. A lot of it has to do with just movement through the day naturally and muscle mass to fat mass ratio. But I would say it like on the flip side looking at red flags If somebody is it just very sticky. Like they have one meal out and it takes the entire week for that to come back down whenever they've deviated by, you know, two, three, four hundred calories. Just generally not a good sign that they're metabolically very flexible and in a place where fat loss is gonna go really smoothly. Cause generally then they're also very sticky on the way down. if somebody's maintaining I there's not a there's not like a threshold where I'm like, okay, now you're good to go for a fat loss phase, but on the flip side, if we're at like ten calories per pound, that's not that's we should be losing weight in a metabolically healthy system at that intake. nobody freak out if they hear that number and that's where they're at and not losing weight, but just in general, it's that's a pretty low number. Digest well, no, I won't won't go into biofeedback. Yeah, that's one what I'll say about calorie intake. Jeremiah Bair: Yeah, I would agree though. Again, like don't freak out if there's exceptions, we don't know your body weight, et cetera. But if we're like a looking at a pretty lean person who wants to get ripped and we're just maintaining on like ten to twelve times body weight in terms of calories. Probably oftentimes something else we need to dig into and address there first. Andrea: Yeah, maybe look at your lab work. Jeremiah Bair: yes, definitely I would want to look look at labs first as well. Again, like it's it'll vary. Like Andrea, you are someone who you like you can't ever work your food up extremely high, correct? It's I know it's improved, but like your food doesn't get extremely high. Andrea: That's not crazy, yeah. It's definitely improved, Jeremiah Bair: What it Andrea: but I I'd say I'm about twenty one hundred calories on average right now, maintaining or just slowly v ticking up over time. Jeremiah Bair: Okay. That's gotten a lot better then actually. Danny, what about you? What's like a maintenance intake for you? Dani: supposedly twenty four hundred. About, yeah. Jeremiah Bair: Pretty good. Okay. and you guys are all are yeah. Dani: But that's but that's also changed over the years, you know. I think that's also something to to think about. Like when I, you know, I think first started was like four years ago, it was maybe two I maybe started at 2000 and then just and then and then worked from there. I think that's also something that clients should should realize, like we we want to give you more food. We want to give you more more more nutrients, more fuel, a higher starting point, them is more is more runway for us to kind of start from.

Jeremiah Bair: For sure. Dani: You know, it's the the goal is never to see how little we can give you. It's the more the more the more fuel that we can give you, the more nutrients we can feed we can give you, the better place we're in to to build muscle and lose fat and be healthy. Jeremiah Bair: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I find that a lot of times, I mean, the process will look like we'll start working with someone. Maybe we go through a fat loss phase initially. The goal might not necessarily be to get shredded. A lot of times that person doesn't have the skill of dieting mastered yet. So we're learning a lot of that along the way. we get leaner, spend a good amount of time building, very similar to like what we're talking about with like Lindsay Mundy's kind of timeline, building a lot of muscle, addressed like Any potential health of bottlenecks we identified, like maybe after the fat loss phase, we got some lab work done. There's some things we need to address, spend some time working through those. And then we're in a really good responsive position. Intake is sometimes a bit higher going into the next phase. Now, on the flip side, I think that when we're looking at shorter timelines, even like one to two years, in terms of like this is kind of just a tangent, but like how much someone can lose on or how much we can increase someone's calorie intake and keep them losing, I do think it's important like. Unless we're addressing like some deeper functional health issues, addressing like thyroid issues or things of that nature. We're like pretty healthy. We were adhering well before. Us going through like a building phase and then dieting again, we're not gonna really be able to increase your metabolic rate drastically to where we're probably gonna have to diet again on pretty similar calories, just to be realistic again, unless we're like addressing health issues or drastically ramping up your movement or something of the sort. That is much more like a long play over years and years of building, like, hey, we'll see things improve here. anything else in terms of calorie intake before we continue to buy feedback? Jeremiah Is Small: I have a theory Yeah, I think this ties into the conversation in terms of like psychological and experiential profile of this person. But I think a lot of times a lot of the people that you hear about with relatively high intakes are also the people that are staying on plan and tracking very accurately. So Andrea: What are you trying to say, Natalie? I'm just kidding. Go on. Jeremiah Is Small: Just it's interesting, you know, like a lot of the bodybuilders you might follow and you're like, wow, she can eat so much food. I mean, yes, like yes, more muscle helps, right? And the more muscle you have, like you're probably carrying around more mass, which means your expenditure is a little bit higher, moving your bigger body through space. but also I I don't know many people that are like having multiple meals out per week that are like winging it that have a very accurate understanding of their maintenance caloric intake. Do you know what I'm trying to say? Am I am I articulating this? Like I feel like Jeremiah Bair: Yeah, no, that's a very good that's a very good way to put it. Jeremiah Is Small: yeah, the person that's like looking at you know, keeping up with the Joneses, you know, and like, well, Mrs. Jones can eat like twenty eight hundred calories. And it's like, yeah, but she's like on it. She's not really eating meals out. She's like basically on a meal plan, tracking very accurately, very experienced. And like the the onlooker is usually someone who is kind of not doing those things. So it's like your perception is that you're maintaining at a lower intake. I'm not saying like everyone obviously can like get really accurate in the all of a sudden their maintenance is 2800 calories or anything of the sort. But it seems like a lot of times those accusations are coming from people who actually really aren't on it. Jeremiah Bair: That that's a very good insight. You're full of wisdom today, Natalie. There is Jeremiah Is Small: I'm full of good insights, Jeremiah. Jeremiah Bair: I know, I know. There is truly though, like an inverse relationship between the amount of meals someone eats out and the amount of calories I can feed them to maintain, lose anywhere anywhere in our like any phase that we're in. Again, I'm not we all love a good meal out, but that's like I think of the clients I have who are maintaining like twenty three hundred plus calories in their All pretty on top of their shit. Jeremiah Is Small: Yeah. And like understand too that the more accurate an assessment and an idea we have of your maintenance intake and how much it takes for you to be in a slight surplus, you know, the more granular we can get and likely the more we can feed you in a diet because we know that you're tracking accurately. Jeremiah Bair: I love it. Cool. Biofeedback. in terms of major biofeedback red flags that would tell us someone isn't ready for fat loss, which I mean we talk through these a lot on the podcast, of course. Hey, do we have a consistent, healthy menstrual cycle? Is that well regulated? That is gonna be a huge one. If already we're seeing going into this process that sex hormones aren't in a good place, which menstrual cycle dysregulation is gonna be a big red flag, that's the case. We're probably not gonna get the best outcomes, but it's also going to take us longer to be able to restore that and build more muscle, get you back to healthy in the future. this again, depending on where you're at. We talked about like HRT in our last episode. Like how we address that would be d very dependent on so many different factors, but as a whole, like hey, we want that to be a good place first. other biofeat back red flags from y'all. Hey, this person isn't ready for foul loss yet. What are you looking for? Jeremiah Is Small: I'm gonna say hunger

regulation. And that could be physiological, biofeedback, or psychological or a combination of both. But if someone is like constantly hungry throughout the day, probably we need to sort some of that out before we get you peeled. Like food focus Jeremiah Bair: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Jeremiah Is Small: is high. and again, this could be like physiological, it could also be psychological, but like hunger cues. Jeremiah Bair: For main just maintaining and we're constantly hungry throughout the day. Yes. Like again, we're okay with some hunger if we're dieting, obviously. digestion. Y'all concerned about like going into fat loss? Digestion is off or not so much? Jeremiah Is Small: Yeah, either spectrum of digestion being off not ideal for a lot of reasons. Like if we have really fast gut motility so not solid stools, rapid, you know, rapidly rapidly executed Jeremiah Bair: Yeah, diarrhea. Jeremiah Is Small: diarrhea, there you go. you know, then we're not absorbing our food. And that's a problem, for a lot of reasons, in terms of maintaining muscle tissue, but also absorbing nutrients. So if we're dieting, we're gonna be taking your food lower, which me gives us even less of an opportunity to take in nutrients. And so if we're not even able to absorb what we are taking in, this is not going to improve. and then on the reverse end of the spectrum, slower gut motility, so constipation, D in a lot of people we see with dieting that gets worse. Not always, ideally. but as you do diet, especially if you're getting like super lean, super peeled, we see gut motility slow, and this affects things like thyroid, also like nutrient absorption and things of that nature. Like it's not it's certainly not gonna be your best look, like from a midline, like maintaining a lean waistline kind of experience. Experience, but yeah. Jeremiah Bair: And a lot of times, I mean, if someone has chronic constipation already, there is something like thyroid related that we need to address or hey, this person has low stomach acid, which will often go hand in hand with thyroid down regulation. But as you said, we're not absorbing a lot of the other nutrients we need as well. So typically, again, if we have that consistently prior to fat loss, fat loss is just gonna be a fucking grind for this person. We're gonna have to diet on extremely low calories and again because there's typically a more functional type thing we need to address first. Sometimes the most ideal world is just, hey, this person is just dehydrated and they need to get better at eating more fiber. It's not always that deep, but oftentimes there are other things we need to address. Andrea, Danny, anything else from y'all in terms of biofeedback? Dani: I've worked with so many clients who just don't poop. I'm like, girl, girl, Jeremiah Bair: Never. Dani: you need I'm like, girl, you need to be pooping. Like you need to be pooping once a day, like at like at least I've worked with clients like literally it's like once

every three days. I'm like, girl, this is not right. And I think it's just because we don't talk about it. You know, I think we're stuck in this like, you know, like girls don't poop or whatever. I don't know. It's like it's like girl, that's not right. and you go for it. Jeremiah Is Small: I mean, what I see with that a lot though, sorry to interrupt, but very much like on your point, Danny, what I see a lot with that is you'll hear a lot of doctors be like, It's totally normal to like just poop every other day or every three days. And I'm not trying to admonish medical professionals by any means, but I always like to say we're in the business of physique development, which means we're we're like I always like to say when it comes to things like lab work or like gut health and function, like if you think about a bell curve, what side of the bell curve do you want to be on? You know, and that's so healthcare professionals are much more in the general pool, right? So when you look at like the averages that they're pulling from, they're pulling from like the lowest of the low and the highest of the high and everything in between. So again, what side of that bell curve do you want to be on? For next level results. when it comes to your physique, we have to get the body to respond. And for your body to be the most responsive, it needs to be its healthiest. So having you on that other end, the low end of the bell curve, is is really not gonna work here. Jeremiah Bair: And I mean to relate that back to physique development, us having a consistent daily bowel movement, like a four or five on the Bristol Soul chart, is gonna be a good sign that we're absorbing and actually able to utilize nutrients well, which ties back to hormones, how we feel, our ability to build muscle. So many different factors there. It is just pretty crazy. I would agree, Danny, how many women, especially I talk to, where I've I I don't know if I've ever talked to a dude who's Like it's just constipate all the time, actually. Now that I think of it, I Dani: Ha ha ha. Jeremiah Bair: don't think I've ever had a that come in with a client, but it's very common with women and it's just like, Yeah, this is basically just how I've been. I don't think there's anything wrong. And it's like, nah, for sure we can improve this, yeah. Dani: Girl, that's not okay. That's not good, yeah. Jeremiah Bair: Anything else, biofeedback wise. I would just in general, I mean your basics, like sleep, hunger, energy, recovery, digestion. I think that like shreds. I think that's a pretty good summary of hey, we want to make sure all these things are in a decent place for extremely low energy. If our sleep is terrible and it's not something we can solve with just like, hey, once we move out of this higher stress period of time in life, we'll be okay. We'll probably want to address that first. Same thing with like our energy being consistently low. It's gonna just dip more, so we want to make sure we're not

in too much of a hole prior to starting this phase. But yeah, I think I don't think we need to dig into addressing those here. any other commonalities we haven't mentioned? This doesn't have to be so like tactical. This can just be traits. Any other commonalities we haven't mentioned that you guys see amongst clients who get the most ripped? Like I'll say one thing I have noticed is that the people who get the most ripped almost always seem like they're busiest people on my roster. Like it's never like yeah I just have a ton of time and I'm I find the person who struggles the most honestly is the person who seems to the most time. Whereas like yeah I coach like a couple clients every day and kind of just hang out and do my own thing. That's the person who struggles to get their cardio done to really nail the plan where like it's like I'm a mom. I have two jobs I think it I don't know if it's just the structure that's forced upon you but Those seem to be the people who are best at taking it the furthest. Agreed. Dani: ag I would agree with you just because I think those types of busy people they have their they have their priorities and they have their the almost that like A-type personality of like no this is what I'm gonna achieve this is what I gotta do these are the boxes I have to take and they also have an ability to say no Right? It's no, I'm not gonna go out for a happy hour or no, I'm not gonna give in to peer pressure and have nachos. you know, it's and I I think that's a very strong strong personality trait of clients that are successful in this. They can they're they're solid in themselves as a person and know when to say no. Jeremiah Bair: Yeah. I will say, like, as a mom myself, I can really speak to this. But n but like I think Andrea is a good example of this. Just at least from my perspective, it doesn't seem like you think about how you feel about doing things before you do them. And I don't know if that's just like I I do think that it seems like there's an element of like, yeah, you've just had so much on your plate that you don't really have the luxury of that. Like, gotta take care of my kids, then I gotta do this thing, then I didn't do this thing. So those people are just able to execute. It's not like, I don't feel like doing this, so I'm gonna push it back to later. It's just like I'm gonna do this right now, this is when I have time. It just but again and I think the organization aspect that seems like it's forced upon you to like keep your kids alive and do other stuff. Seems like it helps. Andrea: Yeah, I mean even with clients that aren't moms, of course, like just the the there's a name for I think that that phenomenon or whatever where it's like the time that you have just expands or the task the time that it takes to do a task expands the time that you have. you just you have this space of time to get something done and you just do it. And I think that that fits very well with I didn't I did not think so. Jeremiah

Bair: That's not actually correct. No, okay. I Googled it, no. Andrea: Okay, well don't don't take Jeremiah Bair: I literally heard this on a podcast. I literally heard this on a podcast yesterday and I was like, I didn't think that was called that either. I shouldn't I wish I wouldn't have sounded so confident saying that. Andrea: We usually go on there now. Jeremiah Is Small: You say it all the time though, Jeremiah, like you fill the time that you have. And Andrea: Exactly. Yeah. Jeremiah Is Small: it's really true. Andrea: Another trait I would say, so that we can move on from the Parkinson syndrome, is Jeremiah Bair: I'm gonna edit this out of the podcast. Andrea: make it sound like I said it. Jeremiah Is Small: There is no going back. Jeremiah Bair: Ha ha. Andrea: another trait is the the clients who get the most shredded are also not the ones questioning and stressing about having to spend this time ahead of time in a primer or a build phase. They're just on board with it. If you guys notice that where it's like the person who is the most stressed and so rushed and ready to get out of the primer phase and into fat loss is also never the one that has made the most progress in fat loss. Jeremiah Bair: for sure. Because you're not actually managing your whole process prior to that. Well fuck. I'm so I don't know why I can't stop saying process. That's driving me crazy. Andrea: Yeah. Jeremiah Bair: but really like it's you haven't managed the rest your process well if you're just in a rush to get into the fat loss. If we're so sick of like, I can't wait to get into this. We typically haven't managed any of that extremely well. We haven't built a whole lot of muscle. Cool. Anything else? Jeremiah Is Small: I don't think we've touched on it. I don't think we need to expound, but I it is worth mentioning that these people are good at training and train really hard. Jeremiah Bair: Take. Jeremiah Is Small: Because they probably don't have a good amount of muscle if they don't do those things. Jeremiah Bair: typically follow a meal plan. If we're getting shredded, we can execute on that. We've already talked about this so much on the podcast as well. It's incredibly rare I've had someone get super ripped who didn't at least like ninety percent of their week just follow a meal plan. Anything else? Cool. All right. Let's wrap it up there. really I think the biggest takeaway from this is as coaches, often our job is to kind of protect clients from themselves. Where again we want your feedback, we want your input, but also we will need to look at what does our timeline and and the way we structure our phases need to look like to get to the best long term physique outcome. And make sure that this aligns, right? 'Cause a lot of times us getting into fat loss right out of the gate. Try and for that photo shoot prep right out of the gate. Hey, we're not gonna get a drastically better result than you have in the past. Whereas we may need to spend a year focusing on building. You might not feel your leanest that entire time, but a year and a half from now, when we've gone through the photo shoot prep, built a lot of muscle in the time between, we can uncover a drastically different physique. so I mean, largely it comes back to what we talked about so much before, where making sure we're not always just chasing fat loss, but actually taking the time to develop our physique in the time between. Anything to add from y'all before we wrap it up? Otherwise, we will close it up here. Pretty good. Andrea: If you've made it this far, comment process on the podcast. On Spotify. Yeah. Jeremiah Bair: Yes. that's what I was about to say, Dani: Or or Parkinson's syndrome. Jeremiah Bair: or Parkinson's. Andrea: Yeah. Jeremiah Bair: cool. As always, thank you guys for tuning in. If you enjoy the show, leave us a five-star rating and review. If you would like to apply to work with our team, hit the link in the show notes and we will catch you guys next time.