Full Transcript for 692: Ubuntu’s Core Reset

Defined for sponsoring the Unplugged program. 33 00:01:54,519 --> 00:01:58,959 Now, you know that it's reaching the end of the year when we make this announcement. 34 00:02:04,038 --> 00:02:09,959 Ladies and gentlemen, if you can believe it, the great holiday home lab is coming back, 35 00:02:12,397 --> 00:02:13,692 for a second year. 36 00:02:15,851 --> 00:02:19,839 Ladies and gentlemen, we want your home labs. We want them. We want your home labs. 37 00:02:20,054 --> 00:02:21,447 Mostly just your RAM, really. 38 00:02:22,928 --> 00:02:23,663 Send us your RAM. 39 00:02:26,289 --> 00:02:30,443 Just send RAM. We're going to have the criteria for you. We just want you to 40 00:02:30,443 --> 00:02:33,923 be ready for this. We're going to set up the submission page at linuxunplugged.com. 41 00:02:34,223 --> 00:02:36,076 Was it holiday? I think it was what it was. 42 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,753 It's as we record, not live, but it should be live, hopefully, 43 00:02:39,753 --> 00:02:42,305 by the time you hear this, or there will be a placeholder there. 44 00:02:42,630 --> 00:02:46,583 And we'll have all the criterion for you, and we're going to have a few more 45 00:02:46,583 --> 00:02:48,934 details. We're changing things up just a little bit. 46 00:02:49,456 --> 00:02:54,396 And it will be our last episode of the year will be the great holiday home lab special. 47 00:02:54,742 --> 00:02:57,543 It's back. It's going to be fantastic. You're going to love it. 48 00:02:57,543 --> 00:03:00,635 It was a lot of fun last year, and we love senior setups. 49 00:03:01,029 --> 00:03:04,543 And we encourage messy setups. We also encourage pristine setups. 50 00:03:04,543 --> 00:03:06,167 We love all of the setups. 51 00:03:06,683 --> 00:03:11,623 And it turns out last year's episode was one of our most popular episodes of 52 00:03:11,623 --> 00:03:14,224 the year. So, you know, we got to do it again. 53 00:03:26,496 --> 00:03:29,983 So get ready get your home lab ready tidied if you need to or make a bigger 54 00:03:29,983 --> 00:03:34,193 mess and send it in we'll have more details and again when it's ready it'll 55 00:03:34,193 --> 00:03:35,613 be at linuxunplugged.com. 56 00:03:35,613 --> 00:03:40,893 Slash holiday yeah i think right that sends to the old google form right now so it's not Shh. 57 00:03:40,893 --> 00:03:43,723 No, it doesn't. No, I just think what we'll do is, before we leave, 58 00:03:43,723 --> 00:03:47,603 we'll just replace it with a standby page, and then when we have it ready, we'll... 59 00:03:47,643 --> 00:03:48,583 That makes perfect sense. 60 00:03:48,583 --> 00:03:49,222 Yeah, there you go. 61 00:03:53,488 --> 00:03:58,552 Thank you. Ubuntu has been in the news these last couple of weeks. 62 00:03:58,552 --> 00:04:00,976 And Canonical has been giving everybody a lot to talk about. 63 00:04:01,354 --> 00:04:05,800 First of all, Ubuntu 26.10, the stonking stingray, was released on October 15th. 64 00:04:06,561 --> 00:04:08,792 Very

fancy. Got the new GNOME in there and all of that. 65 00:04:08,872 --> 00:04:09,832 Yeah, we played with a little bit. 66 00:04:10,752 --> 00:04:14,452 And in the past week, John Seeger and, 67 00:04:15,030 --> 00:04:21,452 Ubuntu announced plans to restart the Ubuntu core desktop with an aim to make 68 00:04:21,452 --> 00:04:26,373 the default Ubuntu desktop in the future eventually use Ubuntu Core one day. 69 00:04:26,820 --> 00:04:31,862 No timelines there yet, but that was the stated goal, which is no small thing. 70 00:04:31,862 --> 00:04:33,403 I think that means we better pay attention. 71 00:04:33,513 --> 00:04:38,932 That could be a huge, huge shift. So we wanted to have John back on the show 72 00:04:38,932 --> 00:04:40,764 to help sort through all of this. 73 00:04:41,687 --> 00:04:46,470 John joined Canonical back in March of 2021. It's been that long. 74 00:04:46,987 --> 00:04:52,146 As product lead and became VP of engineering back in February of 2022. 75 00:04:52,721 --> 00:04:57,341 He's, of course, a longtime Linux enthusiast, hands-on open source developer. 76 00:04:57,725 --> 00:05:02,092 John has also worked extensively with NixOS, Kubernetes, Rust, 77 00:05:02,092 --> 00:05:04,307 Snaps, and Cloud Automation. 78 00:05:05,167 --> 00:05:09,149 He's currently also helping to drive Ubuntu's modernization, 79 00:05:09,732 --> 00:05:14,396 including Rust adoption, security improvements, and that revival of Ubuntu Core 80 00:05:14,571 --> 00:05:16,012 desktop that you mentioned, Chris. 81 00:05:16,012 --> 00:05:20,882 That's especially exciting to me because I think I said I would try this for 82 00:05:20,882 --> 00:05:22,412 like a month when it came out. 83 00:05:22,772 --> 00:05:27,423 I think I remember something vaguely like that. So I'm counting on you, John. 84 00:05:31,085 --> 00:05:35,651 Back on the show right now, John Seeger returning. John, welcome back to the 85 00:05:35,651 --> 00:05:37,493 Unplugged program. We're thrilled to have you. 86 00:05:37,673 --> 00:05:39,508 Thank you very much for having me. I'm glad to be here. 87 00:05:39,943 --> 00:05:44,483 Well, your timing is perfect because you've been making a lot of news recently. 88 00:05:44,889 --> 00:05:48,951 And there's a couple of projects that we want to dig into. I thought maybe just 89 00:05:48,951 --> 00:05:53,051 because I think it's the topic du jour right now, let's start with just all 90 00:05:53,051 --> 00:05:54,611 of the security stuff going on. 91 00:05:54,611 --> 00:05:59,471 There's been a lot of discussion about the recent IPv4 vulnerability in the 92 00:05:59,471 --> 00:06:03,041 Linux kernel and all of that and I know you guys are still as we record now 93 00:06:03,041 --> 00:06:06,221 working on a fix how's all that going what's going on there. 94 00:06:07,672 --> 00:06:11,540 It has definitely been a pretty wild ride over the last few months. 95 00:06:11,540 --> 00:06:15,800 I think anybody who is shipping software at the moment is dealing

with this, 96 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,400 not least the kernel project itself, of course, but it is kind of replicated 97 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:21,900 across all of the packages we maintain. 98 00:06:22,905 --> 00:06:25,850 The pace at which vulnerabilities are discovered and reported has obviously 99 00:06:25,850 --> 00:06:27,084 increased dramatically. 100 00:06:27,769 --> 00:06:31,600 The example you're showing there, of course, is one where we didn't cover ourselves 101 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:37,340 in glory, but it is against a backdrop of quite an impressive story, 102 00:06:37,340 --> 00:06:40,560 I think. So the news on that one is the fixes are in proposed. 103 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,987 There are some instructions out on a blog on Ubuntu.com that tell you how to get those fixes. 104 00:06:46,467 --> 00:06:49,430 One of the interesting stories that I heard from our kernel team, 105 00:06:49,430 --> 00:06:51,400 we've all just come back from two weeks in Mexico. 106 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,656 We had a product roadmap sprint followed by an engineering sprint where we took, 107 00:06:55,660 --> 00:06:58,750 over 1,100 engineers to a place in Mexico, which was kind of wild. 108 00:06:58,750 --> 00:07:01,500 The whole company was only 500 when I joined five years ago. 109 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:07,370 But there was an interesting statistic presented to me, which was that in the 110 00:07:07,370 --> 00:07:11,760 last six months, our kernel team have shipped more security patches than in 111 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:13,621 the prior 20 years of Ubuntu. 112 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,760 And so that's not an excuse for the vulnerability that we missed and perhaps 113 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,510 were less timely than people would have liked. But it is to try and give some 114 00:07:22,510 --> 00:07:26,490 confidence that the machine is being built and the machine is mostly working. 115 00:07:26,490 --> 00:07:30,570 You have taken a lot of steps recently. I mean, just over the past year to sort 116 00:07:30,570 --> 00:07:31,889 of advance those timelines. 117 00:07:32,557 --> 00:07:35,400 I think maybe people don't appreciate that you're already shipping some of those 118 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,996 things even if it may have not applied fully in this case. 119 00:07:38,728 --> 00:07:42,076 Yes, we are essentially now committed to shipping kernels on a much tighter 120 00:07:42,076 --> 00:07:46,866 timeline. And I think often the scale of the maintenance burden that our kernel 121 00:07:46,866 --> 00:07:52,462 team have is perhaps underappreciated. So for Ubuntu, we ship over 160 kernels. 122 00:07:54,076 --> 00:07:59,176 That is a combination of cloud kernels and OEM kernels and partner kernels. 123 00:07:59,176 --> 00:08:02,456 We've obviously got the vert kernels, all of the kernels, essentially. 124 00:08:02,976 --> 00:08:06,260 And we have to essentially keep all of them patched and up to date. 125 00:08:07,196 --> 00:08:12,988 I think the number I saw was something like 23,000 or 25,000 security patches in the last few months. 126 00:08:13,661 --> 00:08:17,196 And so the team has had to ramp up really fast. I think a year ago, 127 00:08:17,556 --> 00:08:20,302 it would have been fair to say that we were feeling the heat a little bit, 128 00:08:20,697 --> 00:08:26,160 but I am increasingly confident that team has built a machine that will serve us well. 129 00:08:26,816 --> 00:08:29,976 There will, of course, always be vulnerabilities that we miss. 130 00:08:30,516 --> 00:08:34,542 They've committed to a much tighter release cadence. And so they are essentially 131 00:08:34,873 --> 00:08:37,606 on a two-week release cadence for kernels, but staggered. 132 00:08:37,606 --> 00:08:38,636 So there are essentially new 133 00:08:38,636 --> 00:08:41,706 kernels dropping every week, but they kind of lag by a week, essentially. 134 00:08:41,706 --> 00:08:46,086 And that's because we run thousands of tests on quite literally thousands of 135 00:08:46,086 --> 00:08:49,696 real machines, like over 2,000 machines in a lab somewhere that are being driven 136 00:08:49,696 --> 00:08:52,739 autonomously through our kernel release and test QA process. 137 00:08:53,152 --> 00:08:56,526 And so the idea is that fresh kernels should be arriving near enough every week, 138 00:08:56,526 --> 00:08:59,176 which is something that Canonical has never committed to before. 139 00:08:59,176 --> 00:09:05,146 So imagine 164 kernels, thousands of tests over 2 000 machines essentially every 140 00:09:05,146 --> 00:09:09,686 week and so i don't want to make excuses for the vulnerability that got lots 141 00:09:09,686 --> 00:09:12,418 of attention this week that was obviously a miss on our part. 142 00:09:13,684 --> 00:09:17,946 And i think it's safe to say we could have communicated more effectively but 143 00:09:17,946 --> 00:09:21,076 i you know that's now on the way to fix and i hope that people hearing this 144 00:09:21,076 --> 00:09:21,967 will have a bit of faith that, 145 00:09:22,757 --> 00:09:25,868 you know going forward they are in safe hands we have some good numbers to support, 146 00:09:26,391 --> 00:09:31,376 i think the level of scrutiny that goes into our kernels perhaps we'll do some 147 00:09:31,376 --> 00:09:32,289 writing about that shortly. 148 00:09:33,194 --> 00:09:36,173 With the accelerated pace of the kernels that you mentioned, 149 00:09:36,173 --> 00:09:43,343 which is crazy numbers, is that, from a more philosophical perspective, a welcome change? 150 00:09:43,343 --> 00:09:49,993 Because all these bugs are being found that presumably existed and were undiscovered. 151 00:09:49,993 --> 00:09:50,997 How do you feel about that? 152 00:09:51,636 --> 00:09:54,043 How do I feel about it? I mean, I don't suppose it really matters whether it's 153 00:09:54,043 --> 00:09:55,863 welcome or not in reality. 154 00:09:56,263 --> 00:10:00,143 It's the reality that we're in, and we have to

respond. I think the Kernel team 155 00:10:00,143 --> 00:10:01,887 is one of the largest teams at Canonical. 156 00:10:03,994 --> 00:10:07,326 And like I said, perhaps a year ago, we were feeling less confident. 157 00:10:07,472 --> 00:10:11,433 But with some collaboration from some of our partners, some pressure from some 158 00:10:11,433 --> 00:10:14,914 of our partners, some, I think, fair pressure from our partners, 159 00:10:15,332 --> 00:10:18,113 it has been very interesting to see that team step up. 160 00:10:18,113 --> 00:10:21,593 And I think despite the fact the workload has gone up because of the sheer volume 161 00:10:21,593 --> 00:10:26,173 of security vulnerabilities, I think even against that backdrop, 162 00:10:26,173 --> 00:10:28,773 the machinery they have built has allowed them to be more ambitious, 163 00:10:28,773 --> 00:10:30,442 if that makes sense, than they have been before. 164 00:10:30,610 --> 00:10:33,673 There's a lot of times, I think, where sort of having to adapt, 165 00:10:33,673 --> 00:10:38,043 move faster, automate more does sort of expose hidden bottlenecks in your process 166 00:10:38,043 --> 00:10:40,303 or things you have to change, things you've always wanted to change. 167 00:10:40,303 --> 00:10:45,673 That's right. You'll notice you might have seen that in the run up to 2610, 168 00:10:45,673 --> 00:10:48,673 we squeaked in the 7.3 kernel kind of at the last minute. 169 00:10:48,673 --> 00:10:53,143 We committed publicly to the 7.2 and we essentially switched fairly last minute 170 00:10:53,143 --> 00:10:57,620 to 7.3, which is, I think, a testament to the kernel team's confidence in their process. 171 00:10:57,892 --> 00:11:01,733 Well, why don't we talk about Ubuntu 26.10 really quick, since that is also 172 00:11:01,733 --> 00:11:05,166 the new release. And there's a couple of things in here that are pretty great. 173 00:11:05,596 --> 00:11:10,103 We've mentioned GNOME 51 on the show, of course, which has a few really nice 174 00:11:10,103 --> 00:11:12,463 things in there, including some nice remote desktop improvements. 175 00:11:13,090 --> 00:11:18,419 But there was a couple of items that I think we've been tracking for a while that jump out to us. 176 00:11:18,796 --> 00:11:22,263 Number one, obviously, is the transition to Rust Core Utils, 177 00:11:22,263 --> 00:11:24,276 I guess, is complete in this release. Is that true? 178 00:11:25,234 --> 00:11:29,092 That's right. So in 2604, it was complete apart from three utilities. 179 00:11:29,092 --> 00:11:33,222 And holding those three utilities back was kind of an abundance of caution. 180 00:11:33,802 --> 00:11:37,002 I don't think anyone would have got into real trouble, but we were aware of 181 00:11:37,002 --> 00:11:42,078 some slightly edge casey time of check, time of use errors. So we held those back. 182 00:11:42,519 --> 00:11:47,732 Those issues got fixed by the upstream. And so it felt like 2610 was the time 183 00:11:47,732 --> 00:11:49,009 to take the lead off and just commit. 184 00:11:49,421 --> 00:11:50,176 How's it been going? 185 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,802 It's been hard. Core Utils has been hard. There's so many utilities. 186 00:11:54,162 --> 00:11:57,769 It's so baked into F1 shell scripts, I think it's been successful. 187 00:11:57,943 --> 00:12:00,682 I remain committed to it. I was reading an article today from somebody who I 188 00:12:00,682 --> 00:12:05,942 think was at the University of Toronto who was pretty upset that sudo-rs had 189 00:12:05,942 --> 00:12:07,498 broken one of their workflows. 190 00:12:08,702 --> 00:12:11,842 That's a slightly different prospect to core utils because with sudo-rs, 191 00:12:11,842 --> 00:12:16,142 the promise was never 100% compatibility. It was a modern reimplementation that 192 00:12:16,142 --> 00:12:19,038 skewed some of the choices that were made by the original project. 193 00:12:19,636 --> 00:12:24,592 Whereas in new utils, the goal is bug for bug, 100% compatibility. 194 00:12:24,592 --> 00:12:27,482 And that project has really risen to the challenge. The test coverage, 195 00:12:28,002 --> 00:12:32,232 the sort of test parity, if you will, between UUtils and GNU has continued to 196 00:12:32,232 --> 00:12:33,353 go up release after release. 197 00:12:33,638 --> 00:12:37,032 And what's also really pleasing is I consistently see Sylvester, 198 00:12:37,032 --> 00:12:40,472 who's the lead maintainer of UUtils, appearing as one of the top contributors 199 00:12:40,472 --> 00:12:44,432 to GNU CoreUtils as he works on his own project and discovers bugs and inconsistencies 200 00:12:44,432 --> 00:12:48,492 and maybe emissions in the docks and things like that. 201 00:12:48,492 --> 00:12:52,212 So I think it has gone, you know, it's been tough, but it's also been worth it. 202 00:12:52,212 --> 00:12:57,252 And I never expected such a transition to be very easy and very fast. 203 00:12:57,252 --> 00:13:03,952 In reality, we were first, and that comes with a responsibility for us to respond quickly to issues. 204 00:13:03,952 --> 00:13:09,072 We've also committed to backporting new versions of the Uutils package to 2604, 205 00:13:09,072 --> 00:13:12,662 which we wouldn't normally do unless there was a critical kind of security issue. 206 00:13:12,662 --> 00:13:16,202 But we're doing that because we recognize that the software was early and some 207 00:13:16,202 --> 00:13:19,014 people will be facing issues that we want to resolve for them as a kind of... 208 00:13:20,006 --> 00:13:21,852 You know, exception policy in this case. 209 00:13:22,148 --> 00:13:26,815 So now that we're here, what is the goal going forward? Or I guess another way 210 00:13:26,815 --> 00:13:29,645 for me to phrase that is what are you hoping the dividends that pay off now 211 00:13:29,645 --> 00:13:31,436 that you're on a Rust core utils? 212 00:13:33,380 --> 00:13:39,103 So in the long term, it should be less maintenance for a certain class

of bug. 213 00:13:40,015 --> 00:13:44,765 I'm not exaggerating or making stuff up when I say that the vast, 214 00:13:44,765 --> 00:13:48,125 vast majority of security vulnerabilities out in the wild have been up to this 215 00:13:48,125 --> 00:13:50,095 date due to memory corruption issues. 216 00:13:50,095 --> 00:13:53,125 And I hope is that we will cease to see that with core utils. 217 00:13:53,125 --> 00:13:56,735 I also think we're starting to see some nice features. So the latest release 218 00:13:56,735 --> 00:14:00,790 has this nice trick where if you type an argument slightly wrong, you put the 219 00:14:00,906 --> 00:14:03,385 argument value in the wrong format or you slightly mistype it, 220 00:14:03,385 --> 00:14:06,865 it gives you a Rust compiler style warning and highlights exactly where it was 221 00:14:06,865 --> 00:14:08,790 that you typed it wrong and relates to the help. 222 00:14:09,498 --> 00:14:14,555 There's some nice performance improvements coming. And so my view is that that 223 00:14:14,555 --> 00:14:19,105 is just those sorts of UX changes and improvements are very difficult to land, 224 00:14:19,105 --> 00:14:20,035 I think, in the original. 225 00:14:20,035 --> 00:14:22,725 There's no appetite to do so, and I respect that. I think that's absolutely 226 00:14:22,725 --> 00:14:28,132 fine. But the user experience that I aspire to for Ubuntu is more than that, 227 00:14:28,341 --> 00:14:31,278 ultimately. And I think a project like EU Tools will enable us to get there, 228 00:14:31,755 --> 00:14:34,179 even if in the short term there's a few rough edges. 229 00:14:34,499 --> 00:14:36,687 Do you think you're on track for the LTS? Yes. 230 00:14:39,009 --> 00:14:39,996 In what sense? 231 00:14:41,156 --> 00:14:44,988 In shipping and making the transition to the Rust utilities in the LTS. 232 00:14:45,371 --> 00:14:48,206 I mean, it was done in 2604, apart from three tools. 233 00:14:48,206 --> 00:14:53,536 Oh, it is. So this last three. Okay. So then I'm presuming then the answer is 234 00:14:53,536 --> 00:14:55,576 yes. By the next LTS, these last three will make it. 235 00:14:56,056 --> 00:15:00,386 100%. And so by the next LTS, you'll also have NTPDRS by default. 236 00:15:00,386 --> 00:15:02,299 And that will be the first time, I think. 237 00:15:02,595 --> 00:15:06,516 So it's NTPDRS plus some new stuff, which we're funding the development of. 238 00:15:06,516 --> 00:15:12,736 And so that will get you a single binary NTP client server that also speaks 239 00:15:12,736 --> 00:15:16,896 NTS and also does PTP without an additional tool, like precision time, 240 00:15:16,896 --> 00:15:17,821 without an additional tool. 241 00:15:19,376 --> 00:15:23,609 We are dropping BZIP2RS in by default early in 2704. 242 00:15:24,423 --> 00:15:28,857 And we're evaluating Z-Standard RS, Z-Lib, and various other compression tools, 243 00:15:28,857 --> 00:15:32,187 which are actually very exciting because, 244 00:15:32,867 --> 00:15:37,777 that is where the efficiency gains that one might seek from a Rust rewrite could 245 00:15:37,777 --> 00:15:40,377 have enormous global scale impact. 246 00:15:40,377 --> 00:15:45,287 So imagine all of the Ubuntu machines on the planet suddenly got 5% more efficient 247 00:15:45,287 --> 00:15:48,232 at doing Z-Standard or Z-Lib decompression, for example. 248 00:15:48,349 --> 00:15:49,335 Right, right. 249 00:15:49,922 --> 00:15:50,937 Quite a meaningful change. 250 00:15:50,937 --> 00:15:55,407 A lot of them out there doing that. So is there a transition taking in place 251 00:15:55,407 --> 00:15:58,367 with the internal tooling that Canonical is writing? Are you writing that in 252 00:15:58,367 --> 00:16:00,330 Rust? What's the direction there? 253 00:16:01,247 --> 00:16:05,307 Some. So Canonical has always taken quite a disciplined approach to the languages 254 00:16:05,307 --> 00:16:08,561 used internally. So traditionally, it was lots of Python, lots of Go. 255 00:16:09,171 --> 00:16:13,897 Now it's lots of Python, lots of Go, and some Rust. And we're increasingly trying 256 00:16:13,897 --> 00:16:17,937 to be discerning about where we use those tools. It's not, as some might have 257 00:16:17,937 --> 00:16:21,408 suggested, a religious game. There are things for which Go is very good. 258 00:16:21,785 --> 00:16:23,907 Go has very powerful primitives for concurrency. 259 00:16:24,387 --> 00:16:28,217 If you're writing web services and doing HTTP handling and things like that, 260 00:16:28,217 --> 00:16:32,012 Go is a phenomenal choice still. Even some of our systems tools like SnapD are written in Go. 261 00:16:32,407 --> 00:16:38,647 But equally, if you want to write very low-level compositors and database protocols 262 00:16:38,647 --> 00:16:41,757 and things like that, Rust is a very compelling choice. So we try to use the 263 00:16:41,757 --> 00:16:42,612 right tools for the right job. 264 00:16:42,746 --> 00:16:46,647 And so we are definitely seeing more and more Rust projects popping up around Canonical. 265 00:16:47,518 --> 00:16:51,207 Okay, so you mentioned Snaps. You boys all right if we transition to this one? 266 00:16:51,207 --> 00:16:55,227 You ready for this? Okay. So the big news that you made recently, 267 00:16:55,647 --> 00:17:01,705 and this is pretty exciting, is that, quote, you are accelerating the Ubuntu Core desktop, 268 00:17:02,291 --> 00:17:08,752 the immutable and attestable Linux distribution, and you say specifically the desktop, too. 269 00:17:09,344 --> 00:17:14,180 So we all know Ubuntu Core, and it kind of seems to have faded a little bit, so it's, 270 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,602 back john what's going on what are the details tell us the story here. 271 00:17:19,055 --> 00:17:23,968 Yeah so ubuntu core itself has been pretty widely deployed on sort of iot class 272 00:17:23,968 --> 00:17:27,449 devices digital signage robots those kind of things, 273 00:17:28,168 --> 00:17:32,768 uh and

continues to to be deployed as such you'll remember 2023 there was a 274 00:17:32,768 --> 00:17:35,087 sort of proof of concept core desktop 275 00:17:35,366 --> 00:17:38,288 and then it sort of all went a bit quiet and that coincided with about the time 276 00:17:38,288 --> 00:17:41,217 that i took over ubuntu and it's one of it's been one of the things i have been 277 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,208 most desperate to get back to. 278 00:17:43,208 --> 00:17:47,521 But the sort of cold, hard reality of it was that I didn't feel like we had, 279 00:17:48,061 --> 00:17:53,238 the right team or resources to commit to that on that timescale. 280 00:17:53,238 --> 00:17:58,238 And a combination of some exceptional hiring from my team and kind of growth 281 00:17:58,238 --> 00:18:01,028 in the department has meant that I now feel pretty confident that we can tackle it. 282 00:18:01,028 --> 00:18:05,668 And honestly, I think this is the most exciting thing I have or maybe will get 283 00:18:05,668 --> 00:18:11,638 to announce at Canonical. Because for me, it is the most prolific kind of reimagining 284 00:18:11,638 --> 00:18:14,416 of Ubuntu's architecture and makeup in its history. 285 00:18:14,538 --> 00:18:19,501 It is replacing the bootloader as a snap, the kernel as a snap, 286 00:18:20,428 --> 00:18:21,778 the desktop environment as a snap. 287 00:18:21,778 --> 00:18:26,098 And so we have revived that original POC, which still has some architectural 288 00:18:26,098 --> 00:18:29,408 deficiencies, but is now rebased on core 26. And if you know where to look on 289 00:18:29,408 --> 00:18:30,901 GitHub, you can get the images and boot them. 290 00:18:32,381 --> 00:18:35,528 We're working on a kind of daily release pipeline and now we'll aim to break 291 00:18:35,528 --> 00:18:39,997 down some of the more monolithic aspects of that proof of concept into component parts. 292 00:18:40,276 --> 00:18:43,080 Okay, so there's a lot about this that really bakes our noodle. 293 00:18:43,335 --> 00:18:46,008 It's a huge job, and I do want to get into some of the aspects that seem like 294 00:18:46,008 --> 00:18:47,236 they're going to be challenging, but... 295 00:18:48,230 --> 00:18:53,137 Man, it seems like if swapping out a few CLI tools was controversial, 296 00:18:53,137 --> 00:18:57,843 this is really going to rock the boat when people actually wrap their head around what's coming. 297 00:18:58,190 --> 00:19:01,347 Because, John, you're coming right at it and you're saying this is going to 298 00:19:01,347 --> 00:19:02,980 be the future of Ubuntu one day. 299 00:19:03,305 --> 00:19:07,277 And in a way, for a lot of people, I think Ubuntu is kind of like the bastion 300 00:19:07,277 --> 00:19:10,287 of a traditional distro where I can install it and I can just run anything I 301 00:19:10,287 --> 00:19:12,221 would download and et cetera, et cetera. 302 00:19:12,547 --> 00:19:15,387 There's got to be at least a portion of the user base and so many of the things 303 00:19:15,387 --> 00:19:19,217 that are based off Ubuntu that kind of have this expectation just baked in of 304 00:19:19,217 --> 00:19:20,400 how a Linux system works. 305 00:19:21,016 --> 00:19:24,301 This is going to be a pretty big transition. Like, are you crazy? 306 00:19:25,073 --> 00:19:25,420 A little. 307 00:19:27,057 --> 00:19:27,577 All right. 308 00:19:27,577 --> 00:19:32,197 But here's the thing. So traditional Ubuntu, Ubuntu as it sounds today, 309 00:19:32,197 --> 00:19:35,767 is not going anywhere. Like, no one should read into this that this signals 310 00:19:35,767 --> 00:19:37,600 death for Ubuntu as we know it today. 311 00:19:37,757 --> 00:19:41,704 For a start, Ubuntu Core cannot exist without the packages that we build, 312 00:19:41,954 --> 00:19:43,987 that we inherit and sync and patch from Debian, right? 313 00:19:43,987 --> 00:19:48,367 So Ubuntu, as you know it today, if you are someone who has absolutely no interest 314 00:19:48,367 --> 00:19:50,887 in Immutable Linux and Snaps, Ubuntu is going to stick around. 315 00:19:50,887 --> 00:19:54,157 You can carry on using it. Don't panic. I hope that there are no plans on any 316 00:19:54,157 --> 00:19:56,815 timeline to stop doing Ubuntu as we're doing it today. 317 00:19:57,343 --> 00:20:04,930 There is a plan that over the next couple few years, Core will become the default Ubuntu experience. 318 00:20:05,243 --> 00:20:08,277 And in my opinion, there are very good reasons for that. I know I don't need 319 00:20:08,277 --> 00:20:12,697 to sell you folks on immutable Linux distributions, but Ubuntu Core has some 320 00:20:12,697 --> 00:20:13,875 really interesting properties, 321 00:20:14,809 --> 00:20:18,965 even among the current drop-off Linux distributions. So one of the first criticisms 322 00:20:18,965 --> 00:20:22,975 I heard on this post was, well, I've used an immediate Linux system, 323 00:20:22,975 --> 00:20:25,525 and every time I update a package, I have to rebuild an image and reboot the 324 00:20:25,525 --> 00:20:26,632 system and redeploy the whole thing. 325 00:20:26,875 --> 00:20:30,242 Not true on Ubuntu core. Just refresh the snap in place. We can live patch the kernel. 326 00:20:30,695 --> 00:20:36,225 So that's not a drawback. It also brings that lovely, I want to switch the desktop 327 00:20:36,225 --> 00:20:40,860 environment for a day and see what happens type effect without crapping all over your system. 328 00:20:41,775 --> 00:20:46,745 You can just install the KDE snap, boot that for a while remove the KDE snap 329 00:20:46,745 --> 00:20:50,835 and go back to GNOME I hope that there will be cosmic snaps and you know NERI 330 00:20:50,835 --> 00:20:55,076 snaps and all the rest of it and I think. 331 00:20:56,737 --> 00:21:00,187 2026 has never been a better time to think about what confinement might look 332 00:21:00,187 --> 00:21:04,353 like on your workstation. I think it is only a matter of time before we see. 333 00:21:06,855 -->

00:21:11,946 Very influential people having their credentials leaked because an agent did something silly. 334 00:21:12,213 --> 00:21:16,567 And the way I run my machine is I have very little installed on it. 335 00:21:16,567 --> 00:21:20,427 I have a browser, I have a chat client, I have a terminal, and pretty much everything 336 00:21:20,427 --> 00:21:23,087 I do is in a LexD container or a VM or something like that. 337 00:21:25,347 --> 00:21:29,327 And And there is a story here on the compatibility front that really has come 338 00:21:29,327 --> 00:21:33,547 into focus in the last year that I couldn't have told two and a half years ago 339 00:21:33,547 --> 00:21:35,885 when I kind of regrettably put a pause on things. 340 00:21:36,785 --> 00:21:40,277 And so where I am moving towards is why not use Canonical Workshop, 341 00:21:40,277 --> 00:21:44,677 which is this nice little utility that we shipped about six to eight months 342 00:21:44,677 --> 00:21:48,447 ago for building little reproducible developer environments. 343 00:21:48,691 --> 00:21:54,200 Use that as the sort of compatibility story. So today I have been using Firefox 344 00:21:54,530 --> 00:21:55,691 installed in a workshop. 345 00:21:56,626 --> 00:21:59,482 I launch it from my GNOME launcher and it pops up on my desktop. 346 00:22:00,247 --> 00:22:03,497 It's wired up to D-Bus through D-Bus proxy. It's wired up to Pipewire through 347 00:22:03,497 --> 00:22:05,827 Pipewire container. The notifications work. The camera works. 348 00:22:06,965 --> 00:22:12,177 Web Serial even worked. And that Firefox is installed as a dev running in a workshop. 349 00:22:12,177 --> 00:22:16,627 Okay. So, okay, I got it. This is a lot. So first of all, what I caught in there 350 00:22:16,627 --> 00:22:20,247 is it doesn't sound like alternative desktops are out. Still going to be able 351 00:22:20,247 --> 00:22:22,654 to run Plasma and Cosmic. That's all going to be still a thing. 352 00:22:22,887 --> 00:22:26,207 We're actually working with the KDE folks right from the start. 353 00:22:26,207 --> 00:22:29,317 So we are paying a company who's 354 00:22:29,317 --> 00:22:32,836 quite heavily involved in the KDE Neon community to work alongside us, 355 00:22:33,695 --> 00:22:39,167 in our teams day to day to basically develop the KDE, like cutting edge KDE 356 00:22:39,167 --> 00:22:41,427 track alongside what we're doing with the GNOME track. 357 00:22:41,427 --> 00:22:44,987 So right from day one, we essentially put ourselves in a position where we can't 358 00:22:44,987 --> 00:22:48,257 make decisions that would inhibit us to just one desktop environment or one 359 00:22:48,257 --> 00:22:49,595 login manager or something like that. 360 00:22:52,277 --> 00:22:55,993 What kept me from having a proper website for a long time was it just felt expensive 361 00:22:55,993 --> 00:22:59,313 and time-consuming. I mean, for some folks, it means you have to hire someone. 362 00:22:59,650 --> 00:23:04,189 For

others like me, it means at least a weekend of research to look at a stack of tools. 363 00:23:04,706 --> 00:23:08,893 Hostinger's AI Builder flips that. Describe what you want, and it builds a working 364 00:23:08,893 --> 00:23:10,923 version of the entire site in minutes. 365 00:23:11,178 --> 00:23:14,203 No coding, no design skills required. 366 00:23:14,534 --> 00:23:17,279 And you can start from a mock-up before you even make an account. 367 00:23:17,586 --> 00:23:20,006 That's the part that actually got me to try it, I'll be honest. 368 00:23:20,314 --> 00:23:23,553 What I also like is that it's kind of an all-in-one place for the domain, 369 00:23:23,553 --> 00:23:26,573 the website, the email, the marketing that makes it easy for you to get started 370 00:23:26,573 --> 00:23:27,779 or a friend or a family member. 371 00:23:28,186 --> 00:23:32,353 One Hostinger account covers it all, so no stitching together five different 372 00:23:32,353 --> 00:23:33,950 subscriptions in your domain provider. 373 00:23:34,380 --> 00:23:37,513 And if you already have a site somewhere else, Hostinger makes migration quick 374 00:23:37,513 --> 00:23:40,608 and easy. You're not locked into whatever you started with years ago. 375 00:23:41,328 --> 00:23:45,862 And right now, Black Friday and Cyber Monday pricing is live. 376 00:23:46,030 --> 00:23:48,817 A premium plan is just $1.99 a month. 377 00:23:49,275 --> 00:23:52,803 Snag Hostinger's service at their lowest prices before the sale ends. 378 00:23:52,803 --> 00:23:55,904 Create your website today for just $1.99. 379 00:23:56,259 --> 00:24:01,233 Go to hostinger.com slash unplugged and use the code unplugged for an additional 380 00:24:01,233 --> 00:24:04,322 10% off Black Friday and Cyber Monday pricing. 381 00:24:04,455 --> 00:24:07,242 Hostinger.com slash unplugged. 382 00:24:10,307 --> 00:24:13,571 Okay, then the other thing, it sounds like you called it a workshop. 383 00:24:13,571 --> 00:24:18,451 This is almost kind of like a separate contained environment where you could, 384 00:24:18,951 --> 00:24:22,311 essentially sideload applications that aren't snapped or for some reason you 385 00:24:22,311 --> 00:24:23,354 didn't want a snapped version. 386 00:24:23,744 --> 00:24:28,481 That's right. So think, I'm just going to say this, various parts of the internet 387 00:24:28,481 --> 00:24:29,786 are about to explode. So strap in. 388 00:24:30,083 --> 00:24:33,229 Think Windows subsystem for Linux with the graphics bit. 389 00:24:33,363 --> 00:24:37,722 So you can install, like you could even install a Flatpak in a container and 390 00:24:37,907 --> 00:24:41,691 the window can appear on your Ubuntu Core desktop as if it was running on your 391 00:24:41,691 --> 00:24:43,532 desktop, except it's not, it's running in a container. 392 00:24:44,311 --> 00:24:50,051 And that is essentially the, that's the escape patch. So obviously I see this as an escape patch. 393 00:24:50,051 --> 00:24:52,981 If we do our job right, all the software vendors in the world are going to want 394 00:24:52,981 --> 00:24:57,111 to ship their stuff for snaps because the security story, the update story, 395 00:24:57,111 --> 00:25:00,681 the kind of usage metric story should be so compelling for them and for their 396 00:25:00,681 --> 00:25:02,741 users that they want to ship their stuff for snaps. 397 00:25:03,218 --> 00:25:06,891 But it is no good for us to go out in the world when none of the apps are snaps 398 00:25:06,891 --> 00:25:09,191 and tell everyone that this is the future of Ubuntu when they boot it up for 399 00:25:09,191 --> 00:25:11,261 the first time and can't get the stuff done they need to get done. 400 00:25:11,261 --> 00:25:16,671 And so workshops and containers and the appropriate kind of wiring and polish 401 00:25:16,671 --> 00:25:20,081 around how you wire those apps into the desktop are kind of the escape hatch. 402 00:25:20,081 --> 00:25:21,205 And that's going to be a focus. 403 00:25:21,774 --> 00:25:24,711 I mean, I'm running a sort of prototype of it today, in a sense. 404 00:25:24,711 --> 00:25:27,611 Is this essentially like LXD under the hood, kind of wired up? 405 00:25:27,611 --> 00:25:28,051 It is LXD. 406 00:25:28,051 --> 00:25:28,921 Okay, yeah, okay. 407 00:25:28,921 --> 00:25:29,371 Awesome. 408 00:25:29,371 --> 00:25:30,161 That's great. 409 00:25:30,161 --> 00:25:33,511 So workshop, canonical workshop is this super nice little thing that we actually 410 00:25:33,511 --> 00:25:38,376 imagined three years ago for basically confining... 411 00:25:39,340 --> 00:25:43,117 A board vendor SDK. So often if you're doing IoT development or board bring 412 00:25:43,117 --> 00:25:47,087 up enablement stuff, you end up with these kind of large SDKs, 413 00:25:47,087 --> 00:25:49,147 lots of files, lots of libraries, lots of utilities. 414 00:25:49,147 --> 00:25:52,967 And if you're working on boards from five different vendors, 415 00:25:52,967 --> 00:25:55,457 this stuff can end up all over your system and conflict and be a bit of a pain. 416 00:25:55,457 --> 00:25:58,758 So Workshops was basically a way of like, how can we wrap up an XD container 417 00:25:58,961 --> 00:26:02,450 in a nice declarative kind of YAML format that can be shared among teams? 418 00:26:02,670 --> 00:26:05,817 And so the idea is in your repo, you have a workshop.yaml, you type workshop 419 00:26:05,817 --> 00:26:08,507 launch, and you get the same developer environment as the rest of your teammates, 420 00:26:08,507 --> 00:26:11,517 makes much like a nix shell right much like a nix flake shell something like 421 00:26:11,517 --> 00:26:13,247 that could be interesting in a desktop. 422 00:26:13,247 --> 00:26:15,504 Environment for sharing those workshop environments around. 423 00:26:16,369 --> 00:26:19,427 And that's what our teams are doing and and some of our customers and users 424 00:26:19,427 --> 00:26:22,687 are starting to do so we've built this product

and it sort of only recently 425 00:26:22,687 --> 00:26:23,846 occurred to me that we could, 426 00:26:24,624 --> 00:26:28,067 extend the set of interfaces and integrations that we have with workshops to 427 00:26:28,067 --> 00:26:32,077 make it very easy to say well when desktop apps launch in this workshop the 428 00:26:32,077 --> 00:26:35,537 app needs to show up on my desktop and make that very seamless. 429 00:26:35,537 --> 00:26:38,155 So that's the kind of, that's the get out of jail free card. 430 00:26:38,410 --> 00:26:43,067 But actually what's really important to me is that we get the first class experience, right? 431 00:26:43,067 --> 00:26:47,727 Because I don't love the idea of running a totally unconfined browser on my system. 432 00:26:47,727 --> 00:26:53,207 I certainly don't love the idea of running codecs or open code on my system 433 00:26:53,207 --> 00:26:56,147 where all my credentials are. Like, I think we all agree probably that that's 434 00:26:56,147 --> 00:27:02,112 not great hygiene. And the problem is it is very easy for people to do that today on Ubuntu. 435 00:27:02,449 --> 00:27:05,287 You have to know what you're doing. You have to know that you don't want to 436 00:27:05,287 --> 00:27:07,307 do that in order to not fall into that trap. 437 00:27:07,307 --> 00:27:12,409 And I think for me, one of the attractive things about Core Desktop is we don't, 438 00:27:12,931 --> 00:27:16,417 give our users the option to put themselves in that position. 439 00:27:16,417 --> 00:27:18,947 They will have the flexibility to get done what they need to get done, 440 00:27:18,947 --> 00:27:21,197 and it should feel smooth and seamless, and we shouldn't get in their way, 441 00:27:21,197 --> 00:27:24,127 but they can't accidentally install an agent that's going to root their system 442 00:27:24,127 --> 00:27:25,592 on the machine. It doesn't work. 443 00:27:27,862 --> 00:27:30,941 So that's kind of the thinking. And there's three use cases I outlined. 444 00:27:30,941 --> 00:27:33,330 One was the kind of Chromebook use case. 445 00:27:33,991 --> 00:27:37,041 Boot to a browser, lots of users. For lots of home users, that's going to be 446 00:27:37,041 --> 00:27:41,891 enough, I think. Just a very nicely optimized, accelerated browser that automatically 447 00:27:41,891 --> 00:27:43,871 updates in the background without you ever doing anything. Like, 448 00:27:43,871 --> 00:27:46,321 we can achieve that today, right now. Like, I could send you an image, 449 00:27:46,321 --> 00:27:47,245 you could boot it, it will work. 450 00:27:49,497 --> 00:27:53,481 The other two are interesting for two different reasons. So one of them is a 451 00:27:53,481 --> 00:27:56,851 developer workstation. So that's, you run VS Code, you've got workshops, 452 00:27:56,851 --> 00:27:58,511 You know, you do all your development in containers. 453 00:27:58,871 --> 00:28:02,221 We have a nice VS Code extension for Workshops. It's aware of all the Workshops 454

00:28:02,221 --> 00:28:04,863 in your machine. You can remotely attach to them, all that kind of stuff. 455 00:28:05,943 --> 00:28:09,511 And then the third one is a bit of a wild card, a bit of an underappreciated 456 00:28:09,511 --> 00:28:12,481 part of the world in Ubuntu so far, which is a gaming variant. 457 00:28:12,481 --> 00:28:16,919 So this is boot Ubuntu Core straight to Steam or the new Epic Games launcher. 458 00:28:17,284 --> 00:28:19,165 This one feels the most ambitious. 459 00:28:20,251 --> 00:28:22,431 Well, is it though? I mean, we have a Steam Snap and it works. 460 00:28:22,431 --> 00:28:27,281 You know what I mean? Tell me if I'm wrong. John, it feels a little bit like 461 00:28:27,281 --> 00:28:30,671 you're saying to Val, like, hey, take a look at this. You could be doing it 462 00:28:30,671 --> 00:28:33,149 this way. We got something over here you could use. 463 00:28:33,370 --> 00:28:35,059 That's the part that feels a bit ambitious to me. 464 00:28:37,044 --> 00:28:39,580 I'm not not saying that, but I'm also not saying that. And so, 465 00:28:39,824 --> 00:28:43,304 well, I guess what I'm trying to say is this is not about going after Valve. 466 00:28:43,304 --> 00:28:46,424 This is about we have a huge user base. 467 00:28:46,424 --> 00:28:46,624 Yeah, yeah. 468 00:28:47,365 --> 00:28:51,864 I would love, so my view is it is on us to make this thing so good that they want it. 469 00:28:52,183 --> 00:28:54,656 When they built SteamOS, we didn't have the thing they wanted, 470 00:28:55,585 --> 00:28:57,464 clearly, or they would have spoken to us about it, right? 471 00:28:58,272 --> 00:29:04,634 And I think if I were Valve, do I want to be maintaining a mirror of Arch Linux 472 00:29:04,634 --> 00:29:07,764 and all this kind of AB boot and Atomic update? Do I want to be maintaining that? 473 00:29:08,184 --> 00:29:11,627 Is that the USB for Valve? I don't know. Maybe it is. Maybe they are a Linux company. 474 00:29:12,167 --> 00:29:14,727 For me, we're going to build Ubuntu Core anyway. 475 00:29:15,923 --> 00:29:20,050 And people have desktop machines, increasingly desktop machines on Linux that they play games on. 476 00:29:20,503 --> 00:29:23,624 We already have a Steam Snap. We are going to have a Snap for the new launches 477 00:29:23,624 --> 00:29:25,571 that are coming out from other games companies. 478 00:29:25,931 --> 00:29:30,714 And so why not also have the ability to make that experience great on a Steam 479 00:29:30,714 --> 00:29:33,624 Deck or on a Legion Go or on a whatever, right? 480 00:29:34,344 --> 00:29:36,020 I think there's lots of opportunities there. 481 00:29:36,165 --> 00:29:40,908 It could make sense, too, from a desktop compatibility story for the non-Steam Deck devices as well. 482 00:29:41,111 --> 00:29:44,104 That's the bit that feels a bit ambitious, and I like that you're going for 483 00:29:44,104 --> 00:29:48,364 it. It's also going to push all of the edge cases on drivers and all of that stuff. 484 00:29:48,364 --> 00:29:52,564 That's kind of why I'm doing it, should I mean. So these three initial use cases, 485 00:29:52,564 --> 00:29:55,014 I've had people say, well, it seems a bit limited. Why just those three? 486 00:29:55,362 --> 00:29:59,024 But if you look at the three use cases, they are three use cases that are going 487 00:29:59,024 --> 00:30:04,184 to push the implementation in different ways and highlight to us where we still 488 00:30:04,184 --> 00:30:06,228 need to do work before we can make this the default. 489 00:30:06,588 --> 00:30:12,854 So my goal is that very soon, as in on the order of the next three to four weeks, 490 00:30:12,854 --> 00:30:15,964 there will be images that people can get their hands on. They actually are already 491 00:30:15,964 --> 00:30:17,600 out there hiding on GitHub if you look somewhere. 492 00:30:17,786 --> 00:30:20,264 But daily images that we are a bit more polished. 493 00:30:20,648 --> 00:30:25,584 By 2804, I would like us to be releasing Ubuntu core images alongside the standard 494 00:30:25,584 --> 00:30:28,020 Ubuntu. And then we'll see what happens after that. 495 00:30:28,223 --> 00:30:31,613 So let's say some guys found those images previously. 496 00:30:32,437 --> 00:30:37,505 And they took a look uh i was surprised i think the entire base for the desktop 497 00:30:37,505 --> 00:30:40,379 is only 20 snaps right now i thought it'd be like 100 snaps. 498 00:30:40,959 --> 00:30:45,275 Well therein lies the problem so that original proof of concept does indeed 499 00:30:45,275 --> 00:30:48,180 it's a few things that we have to sort of quite desperately fix uh 500 00:30:48,585 --> 00:30:51,705 one is that in that original proof of concept which we have basically taken 501 00:30:51,705 --> 00:30:56,885 and just lifted into 2026 so there's a few few patches that needed to be rebased on snap d there's, 502 00:30:57,525 --> 00:31:02,623 all of the snaps got lifted from core 22 up to core 26 but what the cheat is 503 00:31:02,907 --> 00:31:05,445 it kind of jams the whole of gnome into a single snap yeah okay, 504 00:31:06,165 --> 00:31:09,575 and that's obviously not the answer right so the whole desktop not even just 505 00:31:09,575 --> 00:31:14,015 the whole of gnome like essentially the whole desktop so our primary kind of 506 00:31:14,015 --> 00:31:16,984 piece of work over the next few months is going to be figuring out like what is, 507 00:31:17,605 --> 00:31:20,525 the correct decomposition of a desktop clearly we're going to have pipe wire 508 00:31:20,525 --> 00:31:24,165 and wire plumber do they live in a single snap do they live side by side in 509 00:31:24,165 --> 00:31:28,405 the same snap we're going to have things like lib camera we'll have gdm we'll 510 00:31:28,405 --> 00:31:30,811 have sddm where do they live also, 511 00:31:31,409 --> 00:31:34,765 for a login manager that needs quite a lot more permissions than a standard 512 00:31:34,765 -->

00:31:38,275 snap and so we'll have to do custom work in snap d to enable new interfaces 513 00:31:38,275 --> 00:31:40,465 and allow login managers right because. 514 00:31:40,645 --> 00:31:45,425 As of right now that the login manager actually is not snapped is it or it's not confined at the. 515 00:31:45,425 --> 00:31:50,115 Moment uh so that is one of the things on the images we've just made i believe 516 00:31:50,115 --> 00:31:54,325 is true so certainly for gdm we have managed to make that confine but with patches 517 00:31:54,325 --> 00:31:57,465 to snapd so it's a upstream version. 518 00:31:57,465 --> 00:31:59,335 Of snapd at the moment to make it work i. 519 00:31:59,335 --> 00:32:04,229 See yes so it's all very custom so the idea is so one of the reasons i haven't widely, 520 00:32:04,758 --> 00:32:08,605 distributed those images and the build tooling is because we're just doing some work there's a new, 521 00:32:09,076 --> 00:32:13,035 tool that we have been building in alongside all of our other craft tools called 522 00:32:13,035 --> 00:32:16,875 image craft image craft much like snap craft and rock craft will be a single 523 00:32:16,875 --> 00:32:20,338 yaml format if you know those formats it will look incredibly familiar to you 524 00:32:20,779 --> 00:32:24,477 and we have a working image craft for Ubuntu core desktop which is, 525 00:32:25,603 --> 00:32:29,168 beautiful like so much nicer than anything i've ever seen to build an ubuntu 526 00:32:29,168 --> 00:32:31,025 image and as soon as that is ready, 527 00:32:31,623 --> 00:32:36,058 essentially it will be possible for anybody to cut their own custom image custom 528 00:32:36,058 --> 00:32:39,658 ubuntu core desktop image by editing like a hundred line yaml file which is 529 00:32:39,658 --> 00:32:44,028 kind of wild that it's it's almost in the kind of almost as easy to cut your 530 00:32:44,028 --> 00:32:46,468 own images nixos kind of territory declarative. 531 00:32:46,468 --> 00:32:48,348 Images i mean i love it all right all. 532 00:32:48,348 --> 00:32:49,555 Right yeah yeah. 533 00:32:49,769 --> 00:32:52,928 Okay so it sounds like you're going to be hitting a lot of the edges that will 534 00:32:52,928 --> 00:32:59,098 be pushing probably on snap and snap d itself to get here yeah well that's probably almost worth. 535 00:32:59,098 --> 00:33:03,098 It and i mean so we have work in the kernel to do we have work in app armor 536 00:33:03,098 --> 00:33:06,298 to do we have work in snap d to do we likely will have to patch bits of the 537 00:33:06,298 --> 00:33:09,958 desktop itself like this is not something that is going to land in six months 538 00:33:10,091 --> 00:33:12,860 right and it is going to be quite the challenge but i, 539 00:33:13,749 --> 00:33:18,148 i have to believe that this is the future of ubuntu if you look at what is going 540 00:33:18,148 --> 00:33:22,968 on in the world right now with security and agents and and confidential compute 541 00:33:22,968 --> 00:33:27,128 and verified boot, measured boot, I have to believe that this is the answer. 542 00:33:27,568 --> 00:33:32,198 There are so many of those things that we can do to an extent on traditional 543 00:33:32,198 --> 00:33:35,570 Ubuntu, but we'll always be hampered by the fact that the file system is kind of floppy. 544 00:33:36,057 --> 00:33:39,378 Every process can kind of access everything, modular some file system permissions 545 00:33:39,378 --> 00:33:40,318 and some AppArmor rules. 546 00:33:40,968 --> 00:33:43,406 And I think the way we tidy that up is with Core. 547 00:33:43,778 --> 00:33:48,448 I mean, it seems like we started this interview talking about the security story, right? 548 00:33:48,448 --> 00:33:52,008 And there is a security story with this change. I think maybe also there's a 549 00:33:52,008 --> 00:33:56,108 velocity story because the securities have kind of is also moving faster, 550 00:33:56,108 --> 00:33:59,867 right? So does core change what you can do and how you can deliver updates? 551 00:34:00,779 --> 00:34:03,351 Yeah, I mean, firstly, most of the system will be on autopilot. 552 00:34:03,693 --> 00:34:06,776 Like, you know, snaps update in the background automatically. 553 00:34:06,776 --> 00:34:09,536 We can choose that cadence. They also have this nice property where you can 554 00:34:09,536 --> 00:34:15,916 say, well, I want to be on Ubuntu 2604, but I want Gnome from 2804 or from 2710, for example. 555 00:34:15,916 --> 00:34:19,796 And that's quite hard to achieve on a normal Ubuntu system without doing quite 556 00:34:19,796 --> 00:34:23,786 messy things with apt that might result in you wedging your system with a snap. 557 00:34:24,226 --> 00:34:27,056 You can just say, actually, I want to point the desktop stack at a different 558 00:34:27,056 --> 00:34:29,526 track and pull that in. And there's no reason why it shouldn't work. 559 00:34:31,206 --> 00:34:35,086 Same with for example lib camera and pipewire so often one of the things that 560 00:34:35,086 --> 00:34:40,366 happens is users of the lts as we're getting towards the next lts so 18 months 561 00:34:40,366 --> 00:34:41,838 nearly two years after the last one 562 00:34:42,215 --> 00:34:46,743 they download the lts that is currently supported and the shiny new camera module that was just, 563 00:34:47,219 --> 00:34:50,865 just built six months ago doesn't have support because it's got the wrong version of lib camera, 564 00:34:51,498 --> 00:34:53,599 maybe the wrong kernel version whereas with, 565 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,646 with core it's much easier to kind of pick and choose bits and and the oems 566 00:34:58,646 --> 00:35:01,289 will be able to do the same so dell would be able to say for example 567 00:35:01,609 --> 00:35:05,636 ship their new laptop with the 2604 lts but in their image they could pick up 568 00:35:05,636 --> 00:35:08,536 the snaps and have the support for that camera without having to do kind of 569

00:35:08,536 --> 00:35:11,596 like a hacked up frank and buntu thing that's really hard to support right some custom. 570 00:35:11,596 --> 00:35:15,726 Right oh it sounds like a much more composable system that's impressive. 571 00:35:15,726 --> 00:35:18,478 That's exactly the word i would use it's composable. 572 00:35:18,664 --> 00:35:23,290 John with this aggressive timeline you mentioned 2804 as being the default. 573 00:35:23,911 --> 00:35:25,186 No not for the default, 574 00:35:27,386 --> 00:35:32,556 so i i haven't yet said this publicly but i don't see any harm in doing it other 575 00:35:32,556 --> 00:35:35,496 than perhaps raising the cortisol levels of my team slightly so i would like 576 00:35:35,496 --> 00:35:38,940 the images to be available for people to play with in 2804, 577 00:35:39,620 --> 00:35:44,066 my like stretchy stretchy stretch goal is to have this ready for being the default 578 00:35:44,066 --> 00:35:47,936 in 304 but i would like to caveat that with that is an incredibly aggressive 579 00:35:47,936 --> 00:35:50,596 timeline given the amount of work we have to do what a great release that. 580 00:35:50,596 --> 00:35:53,766 Would be what a great number that would be that's so great. 581 00:35:53,766 --> 00:35:59,181 I love that ambition right uh and so that's what i'd like to do now, 582 00:36:01,242 --> 00:36:05,430 I think the reception has been really interesting, more positive than I thought 583 00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:08,230 when you say to someone, hey, you know those snaps that Reddit loves? 584 00:36:08,230 --> 00:36:10,630 We're going to put them everywhere. It's the only way you can install stuff. 585 00:36:12,266 --> 00:36:15,296 But I think in reality, the narrative is starting to shift there. 586 00:36:15,505 --> 00:36:18,651 You know, I think I've said this before, and I'll say it again. 587 00:36:19,011 --> 00:36:23,590 Having explored the Boot C ecosystem for some time, I spent a long time running 588 00:36:23,590 --> 00:36:27,960 Nix, even while working at Canonical. My first three and a half years at Canonical, 589 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,408 I was daily driving NixOS. 590 00:36:31,236 --> 00:36:33,489 The things that Snaps are good at, they're very, very good at. 591 00:36:33,715 --> 00:36:37,940 And the things they're not good at are not existential limitations. 592 00:36:37,940 --> 00:36:39,613 They're things that we have yet to implement. 593 00:36:39,834 --> 00:36:44,920 And I think one of the reasons we haven't implemented them is because it hasn't 594 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:46,509 been the goal to make it the default. 595 00:36:46,631 --> 00:36:51,415 And now I am going to be orienting the teams internally very much towards this goal. 596 00:36:53,521 --> 00:36:57,113 This is absolutely the focus for the Ubuntu Engineering. Org is going to be landing this. 597 00:36:58,170 --> 00:37:00,460 So maybe that changes the calculus 598 00:37:00,460 --> 00:37:03,116 slightly. The SnapD team is also in

the best shape I've ever seen it. 599 00:37:03,470 --> 00:37:06,210 The leads there are doing a phenomenal job. They're very excited. 600 00:37:07,429 --> 00:37:10,592 And so I have to believe that this is possible. 601 00:37:10,924 --> 00:37:18,130 Okay. Reframing then, 30.04 as the default, given that still accelerated timeline 602 00:37:18,130 --> 00:37:24,250 for something so, let's say, different than current Ubuntu, it's going to be 603 00:37:24,250 --> 00:37:25,610 snaps everywhere, as you mentioned. 604 00:37:26,365 --> 00:37:28,010 Yeah. What does that mean for 605 00:37:28,010 --> 00:37:34,990 the Snap infrastructure and delivering Snaps to users in a reliable way? 606 00:37:34,990 --> 00:37:40,510 Is that obviously a backend that's going to need to scale, but do you have ambitions 607 00:37:40,510 --> 00:37:42,137 to have that backend be Snaps as well? 608 00:37:44,319 --> 00:37:49,375 Yes. It's no secret that we have had our fair share of infrastructure difficulties over the last year. 609 00:37:49,664 --> 00:37:55,143 Some mostly inflicted by some bad actors hurling traffic at us in all kinds 610 00:37:55,143 --> 00:37:56,603 of shapes and sizes at critical points. 611 00:37:56,903 --> 00:38:00,745 Some of it is our fault, and we're working hard to fix that. 612 00:38:01,064 --> 00:38:04,103 We have quite a lot of new infrastructure coming online over the coming weeks 613 00:38:04,103 --> 00:38:06,063 and indeed a plan on how we will 614 00:38:06,063 --> 00:38:10,724 do a more comprehensive job of global distribution of snaps if you will 615 00:38:11,118 --> 00:38:16,500 so more points of presence in more parts of the world the store itself is already, 616 00:38:17,039 --> 00:38:19,993 quite scalable it's built in such a way that i'm very confident we'll be able 617 00:38:19,993 --> 00:38:23,373 to scale it it's already i mean it's grown arms and legs it's no longer really 618 00:38:23,373 --> 00:38:27,634 the snap store it's the snap store it's the charm store It's the image store. 619 00:38:28,503 --> 00:38:33,603 There's a bunch of store backends that all essentially collect artifacts from 620 00:38:33,603 --> 00:38:38,243 RockCraft, CharmCraft, SnapCraft, ImageCraft, SDKCraft, etc. 621 00:38:38,623 --> 00:38:43,986 So the underlying engineering there, I think, is strong. 622 00:38:44,346 --> 00:38:49,433 How we deploy it and how we scale it to satisfy this is an obvious question, 623 00:38:49,433 --> 00:38:51,224 but a question to which I think we have an answer. 624 00:38:51,410 --> 00:38:55,961 Sure, sure. I think what I what I always think is absolutely wild about what 625 00:38:56,228 --> 00:39:00,738 you do at Canonical as a company is these just absolute insane support timelines, 626 00:39:01,226 --> 00:39:03,408 for enterprise customers that absolutely demand it. 627 00:39:03,728 --> 00:39:09,852 And it feels like if you're lucky and you get there, then like the 2030 versions, 628 00:39:10,328 --> 00:39:16,623 of an Ubuntu

LTS could be versions that are truly supportable for a really, 629 00:39:16,623 --> 00:39:20,260 really, really long time in a way that's actually sustainable by the company. 630 00:39:20,893 --> 00:39:23,713 And that just is clearly a feature enterprises want. So, yeah, 631 00:39:23,713 --> 00:39:27,763 we've been talking a lot about the desktop, but this has to totally change the 632 00:39:27,763 --> 00:39:32,155 game for LTS enterprise support once they start making the transition, right? Right. 633 00:39:33,374 --> 00:39:36,642 I think so. And I think the cell for Ubuntu core is kind of more clear in the 634 00:39:36,642 --> 00:39:40,682 enterprise setting. So I want to be very clear that it is absolutely my intention 635 00:39:40,682 --> 00:39:44,583 to make this great for the tinkerers, the hackers, the Linux enthusiasts. I am one. 636 00:39:44,862 --> 00:39:47,242 Do you know what I mean? And all the time I'm doing this job, 637 00:39:47,242 --> 00:39:49,722 I'm somewhat committed to using Ubuntu and I don't want to build a thing I don't 638 00:39:49,722 --> 00:39:53,862 want to use. We've had nerdy conversations about the weird crimes I used to 639 00:39:53,862 --> 00:39:56,752 commit with NixOS and Arch and all kinds of other things. I don't want to build 640 00:39:56,752 --> 00:39:57,701 a thing I don't want to use. 641 00:39:58,582 --> 00:40:03,952 But I think the cell for enterprise is much clearer a system that where every 642 00:40:03,952 --> 00:40:05,277 application is confined 643 00:40:05,689 --> 00:40:08,862 there are very clear models about what every binary on the system can and can't 644 00:40:08,862 --> 00:40:13,012 do it's easy to roll out updates completely automatically the updates are atomic 645 00:40:13,012 --> 00:40:14,742 they're transactional right the, 646 00:40:15,242 --> 00:40:18,512 user user data is kind of backed up and snapshotted before apps are updated 647 00:40:18,512 --> 00:40:20,712 there's this kind of composability of okay well, 648 00:40:21,177 --> 00:40:24,762 my my workstations over there all have nvidia gpus in them because they're the 649 00:40:24,762 --> 00:40:27,842 ml people and the servers over here have melanux cards in them and they need 650 00:40:27,842 --> 00:40:31,254 something weird in the Enit ID, all of those problems, 651 00:40:32,376 --> 00:40:34,982 should be easier to solve with core. 652 00:40:35,115 --> 00:40:39,147 And then there's the application support levels too like all of that too yeah that's. 653 00:40:39,147 --> 00:40:44,147 Very right i think especially like legacy in quotes applications yeah you know 654 00:40:44,147 --> 00:40:45,527 the the whole point about snaps 655 00:40:45,527 --> 00:40:49,540 of course is they bring their runtime the base with them and so it is 656 00:40:49,969 --> 00:40:53,737 eminently possible to keep either very old versions of software working on very 657 00:40:53,737 --> 00:40:57,587 new linux or very new versions of software working on very

old linux and the 658 00:40:57,587 --> 00:40:59,717 whole point is that the machinery takes care of that. 659 00:40:59,717 --> 00:41:03,948 And we see, like, that is something that is proven. Like, I am happy to be, 660 00:41:04,499 --> 00:41:08,357 you know, I'm happy for people to dispute snaps on the desktop where they, 661 00:41:08,717 --> 00:41:12,632 you know, I don't want to minimize that people have had bad experience with snaps on the desktop. 662 00:41:13,073 --> 00:41:15,467 I've seen apps that don't work. Some apps don't work. It's hard to make them 663 00:41:15,467 --> 00:41:19,917 work in the same way that, you know, you NixOS loving folks will recognize that 664 00:41:19,917 --> 00:41:22,917 sometimes packaging apps for Nix is hard. Like you have to patch them and they 665 00:41:22,917 --> 00:41:25,060 do unexpected things. And we have all of those problems. 666 00:41:25,734 --> 00:41:30,209 But I have to be honest with you, I run a basically stock Ubuntu system, 667 00:41:30,418 --> 00:41:33,227 and every single app that I interact with on a daily basis for the last year 668 00:41:33,227 --> 00:41:38,696 and a half has been a snap, and it has bitten me once or twice, and not for very long. 669 00:41:41,331 --> 00:41:45,509 And not only is support for snaps getting better, but the way that we understand 670 00:41:45,509 --> 00:41:46,931 them and facilitate them is getting better. 671 00:41:47,210 --> 00:41:50,999 And I think my hope is that we can build a system that's genuinely very compelling. 672 00:41:50,999 --> 00:41:52,789 Like I want an Ubuntu core home assistant. 673 00:41:53,050 --> 00:41:53,829 Yeah. No kidding. 674 00:41:54,019 --> 00:41:56,869 That automatically updates and snapshots the data and takes care of all the 675 00:41:56,869 --> 00:41:58,135 backups. Like I want that. 676 00:41:59,179 --> 00:42:03,644 And I think we can make something fun for the non-enterprise community too. 677 00:42:03,864 --> 00:42:07,409 Well, here's what I'm hearing. So we started talking about the recent security 678 00:42:07,409 --> 00:42:11,479 issues, and you mentioned the pipeline that you've been building out at Canonical 679 00:42:11,479 --> 00:42:13,083 to deliver patches faster. 680 00:42:13,489 --> 00:42:18,129 And then we talked about delivering Ubuntu core experience where individual 681 00:42:18,129 --> 00:42:19,779 components can be updated and swapped out. 682 00:42:19,779 --> 00:42:23,479 And with the rate of security issues we're seeing today, that just seems like 683 00:42:23,479 --> 00:42:26,889 a thing that not only enterprise users are going to want, but eventually regular 684 00:42:26,889 --> 00:42:29,729 users are going to appreciate the ability to have a stable base where those 685 00:42:29,729 --> 00:42:31,926 components can be updated when security issues come out. 686 00:42:32,326 --> 00:42:35,389 Like they're really, if you think about it, is a pretty complete security picture 687 00:42:35,389 --> 00:42:39,501

here from production of patches to deployment to end users that, 688 00:42:39,681 --> 00:42:41,504 you know, if you can execute 689 00:42:41,926 --> 00:42:45,559 in the right timeline, you may be meeting the market right where they're at 690 00:42:45,559 --> 00:42:48,532 when they realize they need something like this. So that's pretty exciting for you guys. 691 00:42:49,681 --> 00:42:54,076 Yeah. And we do have genuine use cases in the market with real customers, 692 00:42:54,076 --> 00:42:55,336 big customers, customers whose 693 00:42:55,336 --> 00:42:58,092 names you will definitely know where snaps have proven to be the thing. 694 00:42:58,255 --> 00:43:00,966 They were, they were reticent. They lean into it. We help them. 695 00:43:05,926 --> 00:43:08,606 And so, you know, I accept that there have been difficulties, 696 00:43:08,606 --> 00:43:13,726 but I also, I flatly reject the idea that they are just unsuitable for the desktop 697 00:43:13,726 --> 00:43:18,398 and they don't work because I have no evidence to support that in 2026. 698 00:43:18,648 --> 00:43:22,466 Sounds like you're going to try to prove it. You're going to try to prove it works. 699 00:43:22,466 --> 00:43:23,408 I'm not going to try, Chris. 700 00:43:25,226 --> 00:43:28,796 I love it, John. Very good. Well, thank you so much for coming on and updating 701 00:43:28,796 --> 00:43:30,676 us on everything. You guys have been super busy. 702 00:43:30,686 --> 00:43:35,786 There's been a lot going on. And we're absolutely going to follow the new core 703 00:43:35,786 --> 00:43:38,246 work with super interest. 704 00:43:38,246 --> 00:43:40,796 We're going to be trying it. We've already pulled down the images and been poking 705 00:43:40,796 --> 00:43:44,796 around. So we're already pretty excited. So keep up the great work, 706 00:43:44,796 --> 00:43:45,837 John. And thank you for joining us. 707 00:43:46,133 --> 00:43:47,463 Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it. 708 00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:04,926 Canonical has introduced Mina, an open source privacy focused speech to text 709 00:44:04,926 --> 00:44:11,066 tool that runs entirely on your own Linux desktop without requiring cloud services. 710 00:44:12,685 --> 00:44:15,385 And you can get your hands on it right now. 711 00:44:15,623 --> 00:44:16,180 Right now. 712 00:44:16,778 --> 00:44:21,149 It's not installed by default on Ubuntu 26.10, but it is very easy to get up and going. 713 00:44:21,265 --> 00:44:22,954 Yeah, technical preview, I think, right? 714 00:44:23,088 --> 00:44:23,676 Mm-hmm. 715 00:44:23,676 --> 00:44:24,686 Technology preview. 716 00:44:24,686 --> 00:44:28,146 It's a snap, obviously, when you try it on Ubuntu. I think the goal is to try 717 00:44:28,146 --> 00:44:33,421 to have this thing in production shape by 2804, which will be the next LTS. 718 00:44:34,832 --> 00:44:38,355 And you can also get it installed outside of Ubuntu if you'd like. 719 00:44:39,225 --> 00:44:44,734 Like Brent said,

it is entirely local. Speech recognition happens on your device. It's offline capable. 720 00:44:45,431 --> 00:44:48,229 And it supports multiple different backends, depending on the best fit for your 721 00:44:48,229 --> 00:44:50,592 hardware. And hardware accelerators if you got it. 722 00:44:50,940 --> 00:44:54,417 It feels to me like they've really been listening to their crowd with this one. 723 00:44:55,139 --> 00:45:00,029 Going all local is, of course, going to get the, well, dear folks of ours like 724 00:45:00,029 --> 00:45:04,679 PJ, who really, really, you know, that counts for a lot of people. 725 00:45:04,679 --> 00:45:07,914 So I feel like they're listening to their crowd, or at least our crowd. 726 00:45:08,558 --> 00:45:14,009 It feels like baby steps to me. But voice dictation is kind of, 727 00:45:14,009 --> 00:45:17,879 of all of the different local models that are pretty easy to run on different, 728 00:45:18,359 --> 00:45:20,989 grades of hardware, voice dictation is kind of where we're at. 729 00:45:20,989 --> 00:45:22,670 It's like the best showcase for that. 730 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,159 Yeah, they've got it pretty nicely set up, especially if you're on Ubuntu. 731 00:45:26,159 --> 00:45:29,249 There's a wide, you know, the most recent few releases all support it because 732 00:45:29,249 --> 00:45:32,549 you can just do it in strictly confined snaps. So each piece, 733 00:45:32,549 --> 00:45:35,104 you know, there's Mina, Mina Whisper, Mina Parakeet. 734 00:45:35,302 --> 00:45:40,619 So you can have the inference side just attached via Snap. And Snap confinement 735 00:45:40,619 --> 00:45:43,991 is useful if you want to make sure that this kind of data is kept where it needs to go. 736 00:45:44,258 --> 00:45:47,109 Now, you can also install it by building it. You know, it's a Python app. 737 00:45:47,109 --> 00:45:49,259 You don't have to use Snaps if you don't want to. 738 00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,579 Yeah, it's got two parts. There's Python on the server. That does the inference 739 00:45:53,579 --> 00:45:57,615 part, right? So it's got adapters for Whisper, Parakeet, Fun ASR. 740 00:45:57,946 --> 00:46:01,005 You just kind of do pip extra. It's got UV in the repo there. 741 00:46:01,899 --> 00:46:04,354 All very standard, supports CPU as the default target. 742 00:46:05,619 --> 00:46:10,159 NVIDIA GPUs are also supported. There's plans to do other accelerators down the road. 743 00:46:10,159 --> 00:46:10,579 Nice. 744 00:46:10,579 --> 00:46:12,685 And then there's a client, which is Rust. 745 00:46:13,339 --> 00:46:14,246 Oh, wait for it. 746 00:46:14,908 --> 00:46:15,599 Yeah, come on. 747 00:46:15,883 --> 00:46:16,684 Sorry, sorry. 748 00:46:17,433 --> 00:46:24,341 Rust. Yeah, Mina Desktop Demon. No GTK, just Tokyo ZBus GetText, 749 00:46:24,637 --> 00:46:26,634 plus a little Mina Testbed CLI. 750 00:46:27,359 --> 00:46:32,469 There are GUI crates, too. So there is the pill, I think they call it, 751 00:46:32,469 --> 00:46:33,309 that you can get for the GUI. 752 00:46:33,359 --> 00:46:36,599 I haven't tried that yet. That needs GTK4 living with you. 753 00:46:37,761 --> 00:46:41,047 Kind of the interesting part on text injection, how it actually works, 754 00:46:41,772 --> 00:46:47,559 it's got the IBUS injector, which speaks the IBUS-DBUS wire protocol via that ZBUS library. 755 00:46:48,567 --> 00:46:54,117 No FFI. Registers the component and the engine and then becomes the global engine 756 00:46:54,117 --> 00:47:00,138 during dictation. So it hooks kind of right into how the system expects this to work and takes over. 757 00:47:00,463 --> 00:47:04,907 Yeah. It also has that, because of that, it has the smarts to reject password and pin fields. 758 00:47:04,907 --> 00:47:05,677 Oh, that's cool. 759 00:47:05,747 --> 00:47:07,187 I don't know if that's configurable. Mm-hmm. 760 00:47:07,802 --> 00:47:11,713 So functionally, the way this works is it's kind of like a push-to-talk system. 761 00:47:12,108 --> 00:47:16,777 And it sets up a hotkey on your box, and then it inputs the text into whatever 762 00:47:16,777 --> 00:47:18,569 is an active input field. 763 00:47:18,819 --> 00:47:25,117 And I have an Aurora Silverblue slash system here, and I've installed it on this system. 764 00:47:25,535 --> 00:47:30,167 And if I hold down super shift T, it should start working, and then it should 765 00:47:30,167 --> 00:47:33,208 transcribe and input whatever I say. So I'll give it a shot here. 766 00:47:33,579 --> 00:47:35,237 So what did I say? Super shift T? 767 00:47:35,237 --> 00:47:35,913 That's right. 768 00:47:37,277 --> 00:47:41,977 Okay i am now speaking and we'll see if it dictates whatever i say into the 769 00:47:41,977 --> 00:47:47,575 thingy hopefully it does and i'm going to release the super shift t now nothing happened. 770 00:47:47,726 --> 00:47:51,007 I don't see notifications because i was going to say if you don't install the gui part. 771 00:47:51,007 --> 00:47:52,097 You don't get the notification. 772 00:47:52,097 --> 00:47:56,207 Well no uh the main interface is system notifications which worked pretty well 773 00:47:56,207 --> 00:48:01,635 um i got it running on my system in plasma and so just pop up and say hey now transcribing and then. 774 00:48:01,838 --> 00:48:04,507 When it was done it would okay i'm going to try it again i because i do see 775 00:48:04,507 --> 00:48:07,357 it in my system tray i'm gonna try it again what i say was shift super shift 776 00:48:07,357 --> 00:48:12,287 t super shift t okay i'm trying you again and i do see my system tray icon changing, 777 00:48:12,804 --> 00:48:15,021 and i have firefox set as the input window, 778 00:48:16,548 --> 00:48:17,477 it didn't work this time. 779 00:48:17,715 --> 00:48:19,474 And for mine you didn't hold it it was just. 780 00:48:19,654 --> 00:48:22,377 Oh should i do that oh really i don't hold it maybe i'm doing it wrong. 781 00:48:22,377 --> 00:48:24,787

Yeah like triggers it it's press to talk again. 782 00:48:24,787 --> 00:48:27,879 Okay so with hex it's push to talk maybe that's what i'm thinking about, 783 00:48:29,672 --> 00:48:33,515 Okay, now I've just pressed it once. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that was it. 784 00:48:34,123 --> 00:48:37,600 You only press it once. So it was capturing all of that, 785 00:48:39,673 --> 00:48:44,404 the entire time we were speaking. It was capturing all of that. So let's try it again. 786 00:48:45,623 --> 00:48:49,790 Okay, let's try it one more time. So I'll do super shift T, and then we'll see 787 00:48:49,790 --> 00:48:52,578 how it does, right? Super shift T. 788 00:48:54,117 --> 00:48:59,920 I am the captain of the USS Linux Unplugged, and I am trying to transcribe my 789 00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:01,756 text for future alien races. 790 00:49:02,458 --> 00:49:06,975 Then do I press it again to stop? Yep. Okay. Super shift T. 791 00:49:08,140 --> 00:49:10,818 Yeah, there it goes. Boom. Make it so it captured the whole thing. 792 00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:17,533 I am the captain of USS Linux Unplugged and I am trying to transcribe my text for future alien races. 793 00:49:17,807 --> 00:49:21,062 Then do I press it again to stop? Yep. Okay. Super shift. 794 00:49:22,137 --> 00:49:26,630 There we go. Yeah, I tested it over here earlier and from you talking way over there. 795 00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:27,250 You picked it up? 796 00:49:27,250 --> 00:49:27,478 Yeah. 797 00:49:27,622 --> 00:49:29,299 Huh. It's pretty quick. 798 00:49:30,460 --> 00:49:34,450 By default, it'll just auto-download Whisper Tiny. But you can change that. 799 00:49:34,450 --> 00:49:37,420 You can point it at local stuff if you want. It can do parakeet, too. 800 00:49:40,509 --> 00:49:44,270 I kind of prefer push-to-talk, but I think I could learn that. That seems fine to me. 801 00:49:44,839 --> 00:49:47,270 The thing is, I want to do it one more time. Brent, you try it, 802 00:49:47,270 --> 00:49:51,880 okay? And I want to watch while you do it. I want to watch what my CPU usage 803 00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:58,161 is. So before we start, my CPU usage is at a baseline of around 3.9% at the high end, all right? 804 00:49:58,521 --> 00:50:01,627 So I'm going to press it, super shift T, and then you speak now. 805 00:50:02,016 --> 00:50:05,348 Hello, I'm here reporting how many tabs I currently have open, 806 00:50:05,749 --> 00:50:10,961 but the counter that I'm using doesn't actually go that high, so I have no idea. 807 00:50:12,512 --> 00:50:18,169 Okay, super shift T again. And I saw it look like, I'm going to run it one more 808 00:50:18,169 --> 00:50:21,119 time, but it looked like CPU usage was only 10% there for a second. 809 00:50:21,119 --> 00:50:22,775 That doesn't seem right. Maybe that capture was too slow. 810 00:50:23,071 --> 00:50:24,145 It does, I think, use... 811 00:50:24,551 --> 00:50:24,939 The GPU? 812 00:50:25,259 --> 00:50:28,329 No, it's aimed at CPU by default. So they have kind of put some thought into that. 813 00:50:29,426 --> 00:50:30,719 Okay, so they've put thought into... 814 00:50:30,819 --> 00:50:34,419 Because if it's, you know, they're going for some sort of like intent-driven 815 00:50:34,419 --> 00:50:38,129 Ubuntu maybe in the future. So they want, if you ever wanted it to be a widely 816 00:50:38,129 --> 00:50:41,329 deployed feature, you're going to need it to be able to run ideally right across 817 00:50:41,329 --> 00:50:43,939 a lot like whatever people have, even if they don't have a nice. 818 00:50:44,450 --> 00:50:48,699 Okay. So if you, by the way, if you're dictating and it loses focus, it stops dictating. 819 00:50:49,703 --> 00:50:52,629 All right. I'm going to run it one more time. I'm now using a plasma system 820 00:50:52,629 --> 00:50:58,045 monitor and I'm going to do, okay, I'm going to do some dictation here, boys. Super shift T. 821 00:50:59,119 --> 00:51:03,583 Okay. I'm doing one more real world test here and my CPU usage is at 24%. 822 00:51:03,873 --> 00:51:07,838 So we went from about 4% to 24% and I'm going to do super shift T to stop it. 823 00:51:08,923 --> 00:51:15,839 Oh, now the, okay. Okay, CPU spiked to 60% after I stopped it for just two seconds 824 00:51:15,839 --> 00:51:17,898 maybe, maybe at that much, and then it's done. 825 00:51:18,716 --> 00:51:22,841 So after you release it, it takes on this system about one to two seconds. 826 00:51:22,841 --> 00:51:27,079 And then it gives you the whole everything you said all at once. It's pretty quick. 827 00:51:27,329 --> 00:51:30,721 Yeah. So I think that's the sort of Rust part running. And then it calls over 828 00:51:30,721 --> 00:51:32,521 to the Python server to do the inference. 829 00:51:32,521 --> 00:51:36,321 I mean, I maybe. So, I mean, if you're being fair, at the very highest end, 830 00:51:36,321 --> 00:51:40,651 I paid a 20% CPU tax. But actually watching it, my CPU is bouncing around 17% 831 00:51:40,651 --> 00:51:41,831 without this running at the moment. 832 00:51:41,831 --> 00:51:43,161 So who knows? 833 00:51:44,201 --> 00:51:48,751 Actually pretty darn impressive. That is pretty freaking impressive. 834 00:51:48,751 --> 00:51:52,941 Fast too it doesn't feel it doesn't feel like my system's heavy like i don't 835 00:51:52,941 --> 00:51:55,561 feel like i'm using a ton of system resources to have that run. 836 00:51:55,561 --> 00:51:57,011 It seemed like you could just have it sitting there. 837 00:51:57,011 --> 00:51:59,210 Yeah which is a real sweet spot. 838 00:51:59,396 --> 00:52:04,991 Do you think it's smooth enough to you know move to a new web page go to a new 839 00:52:04,991 --> 00:52:09,221 entry for i don't know sending a message or recording something and just like boop, 840 00:52:09,810 --> 00:52:13,541 say it and then boop out because we've been doing like the slow experimenting 841 00:52:13,541 --> 00:52:16,230 version but how do you think that would translate to just everyday use. 842

00:52:16,602 --> 00:52:19,661 I think as long as you have the act as long as a text field is the active input 843 00:52:19,661 --> 00:52:22,021 box and it doesn't switch in the middle of dictation you're good to go. 844 00:52:22,021 --> 00:52:26,371 Yeah i had to work with slack and open code i would say you might eventually 845 00:52:26,371 --> 00:52:29,191 want something bigger than whisper tiny i had a. 846 00:52:29,191 --> 00:52:29,720 Few things. 847 00:52:29,871 --> 00:52:34,102 Like it kind of struggled with mina itself a bit and it got my name is west at one point. 848 00:52:34,857 --> 00:52:39,031 So the one nice thing about hex that i'd love to see and i don't have the gtk 849 00:52:39,031 --> 00:52:44,201 toolkit stuff to install to see if this is an option but with hex you can go 850 00:52:44,201 --> 00:52:47,541 in there and there's like a technical database and a common miss, 851 00:52:49,044 --> 00:52:52,541 transcribed words and you can you can put in there and say when you pick up 852 00:52:52,541 --> 00:52:56,481 this word insert this word instead and when you when it mistakes you know apt 853 00:52:56,481 --> 00:52:59,661 get for you know something else replace it with actual app dash get, 854 00:53:00,306 --> 00:53:02,711 and so i like that feature i don't know if this has it just because i don't 855 00:53:02,711 --> 00:53:06,611 have the gdk4 dependencies to show that but i think the performance of this 856 00:53:06,611 --> 00:53:08,996 might be better than hex having tried that recently. 857 00:53:09,141 --> 00:53:12,531 So So there's some interesting technical... I mean, so there's like the style, 858 00:53:12,531 --> 00:53:18,603 push to talk versus, you know, toggle on to talk or however Brent said it. In a way... 859 00:53:20,174 --> 00:53:24,674 They take kind of very different approaches. So Mina is like the Linux desktop, 860 00:53:24,959 --> 00:53:27,074 you know, kind of makes sense because it's coming from Canonical. 861 00:53:27,074 --> 00:53:30,944 Like it plays inside like the sort of the proper way to do it. 862 00:53:30,944 --> 00:53:34,856 Like you would expect it to be done. It's in the input method framework, iBus, Dbus. 863 00:53:35,315 --> 00:53:39,984 So the sort of correct desktop citizen approach. Hex bypasses all of it. 864 00:53:39,984 --> 00:53:40,784 Of course. 865 00:53:40,784 --> 00:53:45,574 X test, synthetic key events, clipboard paste on X11. W type on WL roots, 866 00:53:45,574 --> 00:53:48,260 Wayland. Remote desktop portal on GNOME and KDE. 867 00:53:49,543 --> 00:53:52,248 So sort of cruder, but compositor agnostic. 868 00:53:52,248 --> 00:53:52,608 Yeah. 869 00:53:52,608 --> 00:53:55,818 So I think that makes it, you know, because it also supports Mac and Windows. 870 00:53:55,818 --> 00:53:59,876 Yeah, that's, I guess, Hex's advantage there, but I don't care about that too much. 871 00:54:00,752 --> 00:54:04,378 I care about this. I care about it being a better Linux citizen. 872 00:54:04,378 --> 00:54:08,238 Yeah, Hex might be a little farther along in some ways and a little more, you know, developed. 873 00:54:08,238 --> 00:54:12,467 Especially with the annotation features. I think it kind of pulled ahead there, but who cares? 874 00:54:12,937 --> 00:54:20,178 And I think mine is maybe putting more thought into some of the privacy security architecture. 875 00:54:20,178 --> 00:54:24,608 Not that that's a problem in Hex, but just like they've taken this modular snap-based 876 00:54:24,608 --> 00:54:27,948 approach. They're really being careful about that kind of thing and integrating 877 00:54:27,948 --> 00:54:29,528 with these first-class protocols. 878 00:54:30,228 --> 00:54:34,268 And seemingly picking very good models. I don't know where Hex is on that, 879 00:54:34,268 --> 00:54:36,957 but I like the model flexibility with Manure, however you say it. 880 00:54:37,386 --> 00:54:39,678 Yeah, they both seem to have pretty good model flexibility, which is great. 881 00:54:39,678 --> 00:54:42,094 Yeah, that is true. That is true. Both of them seem to do. 882 00:54:44,248 --> 00:54:45,194 Better than I expected. 883 00:54:45,740 --> 00:54:49,048 Yeah i got i was able to get it running uh yeah it wasn't packaged for nix but 884 00:54:49,228 --> 00:54:52,548 yeah just a rust and a python which are both pretty standard and then on kde 885 00:54:52,548 --> 00:54:57,548 you just register like a global shortcut and then you can tie it immediately 886 00:54:57,548 --> 00:54:59,770 into the rust side of things the rust client and then, 887 00:55:00,664 --> 00:55:05,018 away you go i think there is a bug on some older firefoxes that it can interact 888 00:55:05,018 --> 00:55:09,227 weirdly with like it just won't show up or i think some people had firefox crash 889 00:55:09,540 --> 00:55:13,830 but that was fixed in recent firefoxes so just be updated there which you probably want to do anyway. 890 00:55:14,457 --> 00:55:17,243 I feel like this is a workflow for you Brad. 891 00:55:17,551 --> 00:55:24,735 I remember about a year and a half of go I after one of the shows said hey Chris I really, 892 00:55:25,729 --> 00:55:31,248 am trying to get working a way to just talk at my computer and I tried for a 893 00:55:31,248 --> 00:55:36,613 little bit and never got it there well they're doing the work for me so bring it on. 894 00:55:37,698 --> 00:55:41,515 You're going to, if you try this, you're going to find the brain dump aspect 895 00:55:41,515 --> 00:55:44,585 of it so useful, especially if you're working with a clanker in an open code 896 00:55:44,585 --> 00:55:50,625 session, because they're really good at parsing a brain dump into structured information. 897 00:55:50,625 --> 00:55:56,105 Like they're really good at that. So you can just blah, and then it cleans it all up. Boom. 898 00:55:56,453 --> 00:56:00,295 I think even for like an everyday task, like journaling or something like that, 899 00:56:00,295 --> 00:56:04,267 or

capturing some kind of memory or a note, like where you just, 900 00:56:04,813 --> 00:56:08,445 you want it in text, but actually you just want a stream of consciousness. 901 00:56:09,005 --> 00:56:11,460 This is a perfect tool, especially if you're just sitting at your desk. 902 00:56:11,628 --> 00:56:15,483 Pretty good. I think if this is the direction they're going, it bodes well. 903 00:56:16,353 --> 00:56:19,845 You'd really have to find something. You'd really have to dig to find something 904 00:56:19,845 --> 00:56:22,342 you don't like about what they're doing here. You really have to dig. 905 00:56:23,044 --> 00:56:25,335 And the fact that you don't even have to use snaps if you don't like snaps you 906 00:56:25,335 --> 00:56:28,125 can't even complain about that but if you do use a snap it's really easy to 907 00:56:28,125 --> 00:56:32,657 get going a gpl3 good work guys good work we're very impressed. 908 00:56:43,913 --> 00:56:48,418 We received some wonderful feedback recently and there's a bit of a theme here 909 00:56:48,545 --> 00:56:53,495 what are you building a little bit of a building report going on here and we've 910 00:56:53,495 --> 00:56:55,575 got a first note from pedro, 911 00:56:57,997 --> 00:57:00,818 Pager says, hey there, Linux team. Aw, Drew, you're included. 912 00:57:01,143 --> 00:57:05,535 After reading back in August about the teenager that got his HP printer working 913 00:57:05,535 --> 00:57:12,045 on macOS with CloudCode, I tried something similar with a BioKey side-touch fingerprint reader, 914 00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:15,085 which was Windows only, to get it working on Linux. 915 00:57:16,618 --> 00:57:21,015 Working with CloudCode and Codex, I've now built a native Linux driver that 916 00:57:21,015 --> 00:57:25,395 lets me enroll a fingerprint and authenticate through the normal Fedora and 917 00:57:25,395 --> 00:57:28,240 KDE desktop tools. It's still experimental. 918 00:57:29,045 --> 00:57:30,469 And I'm testing it on my own hardware. 919 00:57:31,740 --> 00:57:35,865 That is so neat. I've been wondering if things like fingerprint readers, 920 00:57:35,865 --> 00:57:36,945 the other thing unlock would be. 921 00:57:36,945 --> 00:57:38,065 You know, this one doesn't work. 922 00:57:38,065 --> 00:57:42,352 I know. You know what would be amazing is I have an LTE adapter in one of those Nix books. 923 00:57:42,845 --> 00:57:43,055 Oh, yeah. 924 00:57:43,165 --> 00:57:46,325 But they don't support no Linux. I know. I love that. 925 00:57:46,805 --> 00:57:47,755 Go for them. Go for them. 926 00:57:47,765 --> 00:57:51,750 We're in like the golden age of fix the little thing that's been bothering me forever. 927 00:57:52,418 --> 00:57:53,294 Golden age, brother. 928 00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:54,915 Pedro has a reality check for us. 929 00:57:55,125 --> 00:57:57,096 Oh, no, really? Oh, it was going so well. 930 00:57:57,230 --> 00:58:02,118 Page was continuing. Getting there was a much longer effort than I actually

expected. 931 00:58:02,582 --> 00:58:06,843 Read, it was brutal. Plenty of false starts and dead ends. 932 00:58:07,342 --> 00:58:11,875 This isn't something someone could simply vibe code without a background in 933 00:58:11,875 --> 00:58:13,175 software architecture. 934 00:58:13,906 --> 00:58:17,435 It's given me enormous respect for the people who brought unsupported hardware 935 00:58:17,435 --> 00:58:19,775 to Linux, particularly before these LLMs. 936 00:58:19,775 --> 00:58:20,845 Yeah, I know. 937 00:58:21,445 --> 00:58:25,795 Missing features and incomplete hardware support are still barriers to adoption 938 00:58:25,795 --> 00:58:30,085 and I hope projects like this encourage others to help close these gaps. 939 00:58:30,526 --> 00:58:36,348 Happy to talk about what worked, where AI fell short and show the driver in use best. 940 00:58:36,703 --> 00:58:42,415 Pedro Man, how great would that be to sit down over a meal with Pedro and chat about it? 941 00:58:42,415 --> 00:58:43,205 That's so fun You know. 942 00:58:43,205 --> 00:58:44,235 That'd be a great convo. 943 00:58:44,235 --> 00:58:46,020 What can I need to find a meetup location? 944 00:58:46,350 --> 00:58:46,763 Good idea, 945 00:58:48,729 --> 00:58:49,679 Wes, we want to take Anton? 946 00:58:49,679 --> 00:58:55,169 Yeah, Anton writes in, hey, Linux Unplugged Crew. I set up an Intel N150 mini 947 00:58:55,169 --> 00:58:59,239 PC as a home server with Jellyfin, Sonar, Radar, Browler, and a request app. 948 00:58:59,239 --> 00:58:59,889 Oh, nice. 949 00:58:59,889 --> 00:59:02,040 To simplify that stack, I built Torsure. 950 00:59:02,197 --> 00:59:03,857 Wait, this is the developer of Torsure? 951 00:59:04,322 --> 00:59:04,647 Yeah. 952 00:59:04,838 --> 00:59:05,448 Wow. 953 00:59:06,075 --> 00:59:09,877 One Docker container with one database and one interface made for the TV first. 954 00:59:10,103 --> 00:59:12,189 Version 1.0 came out on October 26th. 955 00:59:12,189 --> 00:59:15,779 I've been watching. Well, my clanker found it the day you launched this and 956 00:59:15,779 --> 00:59:18,884 alerted me about this and said, this is right up your alley. And it was right. 957 00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:23,099 A few details. Playback starts while the file downloads, fetching a few minutes 958 00:59:23,099 --> 00:59:26,329 ahead and stopping when you close the player. How much have we been talking about that? 959 00:59:26,329 --> 00:59:27,866 Love that so much. 960 00:59:28,892 --> 00:59:36,306 TV interface for the browser engine of LG TVs from 2020 with LG WebOS app and Magic Remote Pointer. 961 00:59:36,676 --> 00:59:41,513 Library Jellyfin plaques Cody can read with hard links so kept files take no extra space. 962 00:59:41,919 --> 00:59:45,622 On-the-fly GPU transcoding when a TV can't play a file. 963 00:59:53,564 --> 00:59:58,229 So for those that are not quite following, what this is solving is typically 964 00:59:58,229 --> 01:00:01,019 with the home media stack, if you really want the full automated, 965 01:00:01,019 --> 01:00:05,673 like backing up off the internet stack, you're looking at anywhere from three to five containers. 966 01:00:06,613 --> 01:00:11,279 It's a lot. This is doing it all in a single stack and providing the interface 967 01:00:11,279 --> 01:00:13,589 as well. Really impressive. 968 01:00:13,589 --> 01:00:15,302 Turning it into one focus product. 969 01:00:16,489 --> 01:00:18,739 It was already on my, I should be looking at this and following it. 970 01:00:18,739 --> 01:00:19,589 Thanks for writing in. 971 01:00:19,589 --> 01:00:19,749 Yes. 972 01:00:19,829 --> 01:00:20,319 That's awesome. 973 01:00:20,319 --> 01:00:23,620 Yes. That's really great. Thank you, Anton. Appreciate that. 974 01:00:23,905 --> 01:00:29,089 We'll put a link to Torsher, T-O-R-S-H-E-R, in the show notes. 975 01:00:29,936 --> 01:00:34,299 Koya writes in, hi, Chris West and Brent. Your Oops All Shells episodes seem 976 01:00:34,299 --> 01:00:39,207 like a good reason to mention Koya Shell, a hyperlink shell built by my boss, Stefan. 977 01:00:39,514 --> 01:00:43,919 It brings desktop controls, launcher, and notifications together with a shared 978 01:00:43,919 --> 01:00:48,509 theme from login to lock screen underneath the JavaScript UI on Koya's own GPU 979 01:00:48,509 --> 01:00:50,132 render without a browser underneath. 980 01:00:51,519 --> 01:00:55,349 That is nice. There's a live ISO to try it from. Great. 981 01:00:55,709 --> 01:01:01,039 You can try it out when it boots. The shell is CEC by four, so it's Creative Commons 4.0. 982 01:01:01,509 --> 01:01:04,290 Runtime is an open source, but it is free for non-commercial use. 983 01:01:05,143 --> 01:01:07,829 Would you be having a play? Interested to hear where it's among the shells you've 984 01:01:07,829 --> 01:01:10,483 discussed? Well, I would be interested in taking a look at this. 985 01:01:10,610 --> 01:01:13,809 Yeah, I saw this float through. I just thought, like, maybe we can see what 986 01:01:13,809 --> 01:01:14,668 it looks like. I don't know. 987 01:01:14,906 --> 01:01:18,039 I have been pretty happy with the recent shell setup, but I think there's room 988 01:01:18,039 --> 01:01:19,649 for improvement in terms of efficiency. 989 01:01:19,649 --> 01:01:20,688 It seems very clean. 990 01:01:21,048 --> 01:01:24,169 Yeah. I do like the way it looks a lot. 991 01:01:24,529 --> 01:01:28,169 And it just seemed like worth seeing because there are clearly folks out there 992 01:01:28,169 --> 01:01:30,689 also experimenting with the shells. 993 01:01:30,689 --> 01:01:31,779 We're building our own shells. 994 01:01:31,779 --> 01:01:32,619 It's a whole new thing. 995 01:01:32,619 --> 01:01:36,593 It's absolutely crazy. It's absolutely crazy, and I'm here for it. 996 01:01:36,953 --> 01:01:37,998 I'm here for that craziness. 997 01:01:38,770 --> 01:01:42,375 Thank you very much, Koya. Or not Koya. The project name is Koya. 998 01:01:42,834 --> 01:01:43,931 Thank you

very much for sending that in. 999 01:01:44,732 --> 01:01:50,569 Gentlemen, we did get a couple of uplinks as well, and we have a few that I 1000 01:01:50,569 --> 01:01:54,239 have to play really we fell behind because I meant to play some more in we're. 1001 01:01:54,239 --> 01:01:54,809 New at this. 1002 01:01:55,189 --> 01:02:00,458 I know we're figuring it out so we'll let the agent pick one and we're going to clank away, 1003 01:02:02,061 --> 01:02:09,530 All right. Up first is Matthew. Matthew is calling in about an agentic installer, I believe. Let's see. 1004 01:02:09,570 --> 01:02:11,090 Hey, guys. My name is Matt Mangano. 1005 01:02:11,090 --> 01:02:11,450 Hey, Matt. 1006 01:02:11,450 --> 01:02:16,030 I'm an aerospace engineer by trade, and I work with AI workflows and helping, 1007 01:02:16,690 --> 01:02:20,655 the company I work with work through that process. 1008 01:02:21,154 --> 01:02:27,040 And I also am a big open cloth fan, try to contribute a little bit here and there. 1009 01:02:27,331 --> 01:02:38,784 But I have just built a small little project where I just embedded an agent into a live ISO. 1010 01:02:39,161 --> 01:02:46,250 So, you know, your girlfriend, your mom, your dad, a lot of people can't install 1011 01:02:46,250 --> 01:02:48,304 Linux easily, especially Nix. 1012 01:02:49,012 --> 01:02:56,953 So when you boot up the live ISO, you can sign in with your ChatGPT subscription or use an API. 1013 01:02:57,650 --> 01:03:02,427 And basically just tell the agent what you want and the agent will install it. 1014 01:03:02,799 --> 01:03:08,858 There's also some markdown files that, you know, kind of guide the agent to, 1015 01:03:09,781 --> 01:03:13,070 make it a little bit easier for the user. So it's called... 1016 01:03:16,689 --> 01:03:21,330 Agent-installer on my GitHub repo. So I'll try to send it to you guys. 1017 01:03:21,330 --> 01:03:25,048 I don't know if I can paste it into this or not. 1018 01:03:26,378 --> 01:03:28,769 Anyway, it's a great listen to you guys. Have a good one. 1019 01:03:29,180 --> 01:03:32,880 Thank you, sir. Brent, I want you to build that for me. I'm going to play one 1020 01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:35,885 more. I'm going to play one more and let the bot pick again. 1021 01:03:37,405 --> 01:03:40,960 All right. I'm not even going to see who this one is, but I think this is one 1022 01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:41,991 of the queue we needed to get to. 1023 01:03:42,496 --> 01:03:44,670 Hey, guys. All right. 741 again. 1024 01:03:44,670 --> 01:03:45,210 Hey, it's Ari. 1025 01:03:45,710 --> 01:03:50,979 On the launch, you had mentioned that it seemed like your VR episode didn't 1026 01:03:51,397 --> 01:03:54,671 get as much of a response as you were hoping. 1027 01:03:55,333 --> 01:03:59,360 And I don't personally know how this will make you feel, but I think that that 1028 01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:01,823 kind of was more of like a reference episode. 1029 01:04:02,554 --> 01:04:05,910 And I think you've kind of had these types of reference episodes in the past, 1030 01:04:05,910 --> 01:04:11,920 like the PCAE pass-through episode that you guys have done around being able 1031 01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:15,487 to do PCAE pass-through with the Linux kernel. Um... 1032 01:04:16,328 --> 01:04:21,017 Where it might not get very much signal at that time. But over the years, 1033 01:04:21,017 --> 01:04:25,309 I think people will keep referring back to that type of content, 1034 01:04:25,825 --> 01:04:31,578 for help and assistance as they end up either acquiring a VR headset or either. 1035 01:04:32,873 --> 01:04:37,383 Wanting to perform the thing that you're talking about in the reference episode. 1036 01:04:37,946 --> 01:04:43,257 So personally, I think that makes it a really sticky topic, even though it might 1037 01:04:43,257 --> 01:04:46,471 not get as much immediate response as you're expecting. 1038 01:04:46,816 --> 01:04:52,127 So I think long term that's really good for the show though but like I said 1039 01:04:52,127 --> 01:04:53,498 I don't know how to make you feel. 1040 01:04:54,009 --> 01:04:59,907 I actually ended up using the PCA pass through episode reference links whenever 1041 01:04:59,907 --> 01:05:01,977 I was working on a project on my old job, 1042 01:05:03,069 --> 01:05:07,957 that episode really gave me a lot more confidence in the technology and what 1043 01:05:07,957 --> 01:05:13,277 I was doing because you all did your deep dive which was really helpful so I 1044 01:05:13,277 --> 01:05:17,134 just wanted to say thank you for all the awesome content you guys have continued to make. 1045 01:05:17,977 --> 01:05:22,937 I love being a member of the network and I've been really appreciative of all 1046 01:05:22,937 --> 01:05:27,877 the new member features as well and even though the bootleg to me was enough 1047 01:05:27,877 --> 01:05:31,657 in the first place I'm glad you guys have been able to find ways to make the 1048 01:05:31,657 --> 01:05:32,917 membership more enticing, 1049 01:05:33,677 --> 01:05:36,424 for new people. So thanks guys. See ya. 1050 01:05:36,799 --> 01:05:39,657 Thank you sir and thank you again for all your work you did on the website and 1051 01:05:39,657 --> 01:05:41,537 in the community. It's good to hear from you. 1052 01:05:41,537 --> 01:05:42,604 Support all kinds of ways. 1053 01:05:43,016 --> 01:05:47,337 Absolutely. And I like the idea of a reference episode. It does make me feel 1054 01:05:47,337 --> 01:05:48,577 slightly better. I will be honest. 1055 01:05:49,796 --> 01:05:52,837 So I haven't put this all together yet, but we want more of your uplinks. 1056 01:05:52,837 --> 01:05:56,008 We'll try to feature them from time to time. And I think there's going to be, 1057 01:05:57,070 --> 01:06:03,109 Probably some sort of trifecta of HomeLab submission and maybe an uplink to 1058 01:06:03,109 --> 01:06:06,639 go with that where you can reference your HomeLab submission and then possibly 1059

01:06:06,639 --> 01:06:08,859 to put in front of us a boost, especially if you're a member, 1060 01:06:08,859 --> 01:06:10,629 that could be a great idea because you get it for free anyways. 1061 01:06:11,919 --> 01:06:16,099 And that kind of trifecta could be, you know, that could be a way to get your 1062 01:06:16,099 --> 01:06:20,619 HomeLab a little extra juice with a little uplink and a boost to go with it. I'm just saying. 1063 01:06:20,959 --> 01:06:23,435 I'm just saying something to think about as you're strategizing out there. 1064 01:06:24,282 --> 01:06:29,809 Because you know the winners of last year's home lab special they're still they're 1065 01:06:29,809 --> 01:06:33,999 still glowing they're still like they still you know and brent still have a. 1066 01:06:33,999 --> 01:06:35,381 Lot to glow about they were impressive. 1067 01:06:35,538 --> 01:06:38,399 Brent still sending them their checks you know he's gonna get that yeah writing 1068 01:06:38,399 --> 01:06:40,709 those checks so they're gonna get that any day behind. 1069 01:06:40,709 --> 01:06:42,129 By one but we'll get. 1070 01:06:42,129 --> 01:06:47,149 There yeah yeah we'll get gentlemen we do have some picks and i think this one 1071 01:06:47,149 --> 01:06:56,882 wes found just for brent This is a tab management extension for the Firefox called List All Tabs. 1072 01:06:57,682 --> 01:07:01,679 And like tab management tools, it offers a lot of your standard features, 1073 01:07:01,679 --> 01:07:05,787 but it brings in something kind of new to the mix that caught my attention, Wes. 1074 01:07:06,309 --> 01:07:10,768 And that's this dashboard, if you will, of your open tabs. 1075 01:07:11,168 --> 01:07:12,599 Former dashboard guy. That makes sense. 1076 01:07:12,599 --> 01:07:16,389 Yeah, well, I'm kind of a dashboard guy, and I noticed that this kind of looks 1077 01:07:16,389 --> 01:07:20,229 like a dashboard of your tabs, And I thought, you must be thinking of Brent when you found this. 1078 01:07:20,229 --> 01:07:24,639 Oh, yeah. Well, actually, someone sent it in for Brent. I've lost the name, unfortunately. 1079 01:07:24,639 --> 01:07:26,591 It's almost like he has a reputation. It's just... 1080 01:07:33,558 --> 01:07:35,996 Oh, Sudo Satur. That's who I found this from. 1081 01:07:35,996 --> 01:07:39,666 Thank you, Sudo. Thank you. Appreciate that. List all tabs. This actually is 1082 01:07:39,666 --> 01:07:42,266 really nice. What do you think of, as a tab connoisseur, Brent, 1083 01:07:42,266 --> 01:07:43,363 what do you think of something like this? 1084 01:07:43,595 --> 01:07:45,996 Well, Sudo sent this in and I was a little hesitant because, 1085 01:07:45,996 --> 01:07:49,036 you know, tabs and precious and all that stuff. 1086 01:07:49,036 --> 01:07:49,976 Yeah, obviously. 1087 01:07:49,976 --> 01:07:51,046 You're very special tabs. 1088 01:07:52,006 --> 01:07:58,118 I don't want to mess with my tabs. But Wes was like, come on, just try it. And so I did. 1089 01:07:58,604 --> 01:08:01,322 Well, you're the QA guy. I send all the new stuff to you. 1090 01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:03,540 Yeah, it turns out this thing's fantastic. 1091 01:08:04,108 --> 01:08:08,125 Oh ladies and gentlemen ladies and gentlemen oh. 1092 01:08:10,209 --> 01:08:16,655 It was super easy to install in Firefox because it's already set up as an extension that you can add. 1093 01:08:17,255 --> 01:08:20,245 It's got raving reviews already. 1094 01:08:20,965 --> 01:08:26,846 And also, I guess it's based on an older project, but there's been some modernization. 1095 01:08:27,351 --> 01:08:32,705 And the interface on here, just to manage your tabs, is really nice. 1096 01:08:32,705 --> 01:08:37,869 It's got an important thing right at the top. Somehow, that's exactly what I need. 1097 01:08:38,635 --> 01:08:44,475 You can sort by like tab order or last recently used or least recently used, 1098 01:08:44,975 --> 01:08:49,435 most recently used, which is that's just how did you get in my brain to design this thing? 1099 01:08:49,815 --> 01:08:51,778 That is really clever. Yeah. Okay. 1100 01:08:51,883 --> 01:08:59,794 It also lists, it can list all of your tabs by URL instead of by window, for instance. 1101 01:09:00,089 --> 01:09:06,509 So if you have a, let's say a bunch of GitHub links, but open in various windows and tabs. 1102 01:09:06,863 --> 01:09:09,995 Or for me, like a bunch of Wikipedia tabs, you know, the Wikipedia rabbit hole 1103 01:09:09,995 --> 01:09:11,075 thing. Yeah, definitely. 1104 01:09:11,075 --> 01:09:15,005 Combines them all in one place. So you can reference them all under one little 1105 01:09:15,005 --> 01:09:17,725 section in the extension. It's fantastic. 1106 01:09:17,835 --> 01:09:19,895 See, tabs is data. This is what I'm saying. 1107 01:09:19,895 --> 01:09:20,429 You were right. 1108 01:09:20,969 --> 01:09:21,685 This looks great. 1109 01:09:21,685 --> 01:09:27,585 But I'm not done yet. It also has a little, you know, sleepy button, 1110 01:09:27,585 --> 01:09:31,425 which unloads all of the tabs in that particular section. 1111 01:09:31,425 --> 01:09:35,235 So for instance, I have github.com here and it's got a little Z beside it. 1112 01:09:35,235 --> 01:09:37,867 So you hit that and they all get just... 1113 01:09:38,681 --> 01:09:41,847 Automatically put to sleep instead of the browser trying to guess because like 1114 01:09:41,847 --> 01:09:45,447 i know what i'm not using and i could just hit a nice little button here it's fantastic. 1115 01:09:45,447 --> 01:09:46,657 I'll be dipped that's. 1116 01:09:46,657 --> 01:09:51,767 Great right uh there's also an unload all button because if you have too many 1117 01:09:51,767 --> 01:09:54,760 tabs then you need that which so that speaks to me, 1118 01:09:55,427 --> 01:09:59,340 um but you can also look at them like listed by window which of course is handy, 1119 01:09:59,886 --> 01:10:04,847 and there's a saved section so you can also save particular tabs

into like a 1120 01:10:05,247 --> 01:10:06,973 spot where for some reason, 1121 01:10:07,531 --> 01:10:09,533 these are more important, which is awesome. 1122 01:10:10,189 --> 01:10:11,167 I'm installing this right now. 1123 01:10:11,167 --> 01:10:13,777 Oh, I'm telling you, it's great. And I could keep going. Like it has a recently 1124 01:10:13,777 --> 01:10:17,137 closed part so that in case, you know, you did the wrong thing and you want 1125 01:10:17,137 --> 01:10:18,637 to bring it back, you can do that. 1126 01:10:18,637 --> 01:10:22,137 It also has a little trash icon so you can quickly delete tabs. 1127 01:10:22,137 --> 01:10:25,897 It also has a save, you know, save button beside all the tabs so you can put 1128 01:10:25,897 --> 01:10:28,115 them in that super great save section. 1129 01:10:28,516 --> 01:10:28,947 Oh, all right. 1130 01:10:29,547 --> 01:10:33,857 But best part is it also detects duplicates so that you're not, 1131 01:10:33,857 --> 01:10:35,772 you know, saving the same page four times. 1132 01:10:36,236 --> 01:10:39,267 Yeah, that's not a problem I have, but I could probably understand why you would have that problem. 1133 01:10:39,747 --> 01:10:40,437 It seems handy. 1134 01:10:40,437 --> 01:10:43,377 Also, these are just the features I've found so far. I've only used it for like 1135 01:10:43,377 --> 01:10:48,557 12 minutes. So really huge thank you, SayShirt. I will, well, 1136 01:10:48,557 --> 01:10:52,924 I'm already using this. So great. It works for my brain. I hope it works for other people too. 1137 01:10:53,116 --> 01:10:57,547 Okay. All right. Our next pick is to reduce your browser dependence. 1138 01:10:57,547 --> 01:10:59,635 And I understand it's hard. 1139 01:11:00,564 --> 01:11:04,685 I get it. There's a lot of good web apps or bad web apps that you have to use 1140 01:11:04,981 --> 01:11:06,421 every single day. I'm there with you. 1141 01:11:07,350 --> 01:11:11,471 So what if I could get you to try out Tangram? 1142 01:11:11,814 --> 01:11:12,627 Tangram. 1143 01:11:12,967 --> 01:11:13,567 Tangram. Yeah. 1144 01:11:14,281 --> 01:11:14,531 Yeah. 1145 01:11:15,535 --> 01:11:21,751 This is another take at the attempt to make one browser for all of the web apps 1146 01:11:21,751 --> 01:11:26,141 you have to use, where you can kind of have separate, 1147 01:11:26,739 --> 01:11:30,628 isolated environments, and they are each one individually sandboxed, 1148 01:11:31,266 --> 01:11:33,240 persistent, independent tabs. 1149 01:11:33,838 --> 01:11:38,071 You can change their position. It supports smart notifications for desktop integration. 1150 01:11:38,071 --> 01:11:40,701 So, like, if you've got to be in, like, a work messaging application. That's nice. 1151 01:11:41,141 --> 01:11:44,450 It's got that. It's got touchpad and touchscreen support. 1152 01:11:46,429 --> 01:11:51,089 And the idea is that you put your Discord in here, your web telegram, 1153 01:11:51,455 --> 01:11:57,422 your WhatsApp, if you use Element in the web, whatever it might be, your Mastodon. 1154 01:11:57,817 --> 01:12:03,021 You put it all in here as individual isolated tabs that this thing then keeps 1155 01:12:03,021 --> 01:12:05,207 persistent and independently manages them for you. 1156 01:12:05,637 --> 01:12:09,761 And then gives you an interface to see an overview of those or pop through the different tabs. 1157 01:12:10,381 --> 01:12:12,421 A browser for your pin tabs. I like it. 1158 01:12:13,021 --> 01:12:13,700 I have a question. 1159 01:12:14,176 --> 01:12:14,483 Yeah. 1160 01:12:15,075 --> 01:12:16,431 Oh, that little tagline, browser 1161 01:12:16,431 --> 01:12:20,550 for your pin tabs. I don't really know what a pin tab is. Can you... 1162 01:12:28,259 --> 01:12:31,004 Do you think this will maybe nudge me into the pin tabs era? 1163 01:12:31,968 --> 01:12:34,743 I mean, you could think of it as another way to have a bunch of tabs. 1164 01:12:35,776 --> 01:12:38,553 Well, I was thinking maybe the ones that work for you in here is how you learn 1165 01:12:38,553 --> 01:12:42,273 what a pin tab is. Like if it works for you in Tangram, then it would have been 1166 01:12:42,273 --> 01:12:44,216 a pin tab if you ever had learned those. 1167 01:12:44,395 --> 01:12:46,369 But GPL3 and available on FlatHub. 1168 01:12:46,943 --> 01:12:48,323 So pretty convenient, what's your excuse? 1169 01:12:48,343 --> 01:12:54,298 Okay. All right. Now this next one, we're getting a little serious here. 1170 01:12:55,744 --> 01:13:00,423 Your boy here has been using Pinch Flat. as a way to download YouTube videos 1171 01:13:00,423 --> 01:13:07,550 offline and then present them as first-class citizens in Jellyfinnerplex. 1172 01:13:08,067 --> 01:13:11,733 And when I say first-class, what I mean by that is they look like every other 1173 01:13:11,733 --> 01:13:18,743 TV episode or movie with a poster, metadata, description, even skip intro, 1174 01:13:19,163 --> 01:13:20,793 skip commercial, all this. 1175 01:13:20,793 --> 01:13:21,500 It feels native. 1176 01:13:21,977 --> 01:13:25,941 Feels like a native thing. And it's a fantastic way for me to watch YouTube 1177 01:13:26,382 --> 01:13:29,363 because I kind of got sketchy internet at home from time to time. 1178 01:13:29,363 --> 01:13:31,252 Sometimes we're on the go and we're on LTE. 1179 01:13:31,606 --> 01:13:34,166 And so watching YouTube is a chore on those kind of connections. 1180 01:13:34,567 --> 01:13:37,662 So if you just got things you watch, a few channels you watch on the regular, 1181 01:13:38,057 --> 01:13:41,499 you throw them into old pinch flat here and it pulls them down, 1182 01:13:41,743 --> 01:13:45,083 saves them, gets all the NFO and metadata information, saves which ones it's 1183 01:13:45,083 --> 01:13:46,704 viewed, all that. Beautiful. 1184 01:13:48,317 --> 01:13:49,857 Unfortunately, YouTube's been 1185 01:13:49,857 --> 01:13:53,773 making it harder and harder for good old classic YTDLP to work properly.

1186 01:13:54,355 --> 01:13:57,947 And this has impacted the performance of Pinchflat and related projects. 1187 01:13:58,395 --> 01:14:00,688 And so more and more, I'm missing videos. 1188 01:14:01,534 --> 01:14:06,887 And so Pinchflat NGX comes into the picture here. Pinchflat NGX. 1189 01:14:08,036 --> 01:14:12,467 An enhanced self-hostable version of Pinchflat with a YouTube media manager 1190 01:14:12,467 --> 01:14:13,533 and metadata built in here. 1191 01:14:14,091 --> 01:14:17,117 And one of the things it does do differently, besides some UI changes that I 1192 01:14:17,117 --> 01:14:20,859 think look quite nice, is it uses a different download pipeline. 1193 01:14:21,805 --> 01:14:25,797 And it uses a tool that I'm not super familiar with, but seems to be producing 1194 01:14:25,797 --> 01:14:30,879 better results, and they kind of go through all of it in their description of how it all works. 1195 01:14:31,582 --> 01:14:37,237 And it uses something called bgutil, which integrates with like a token you 1196 01:14:37,237 --> 01:14:42,181 get from YouTube or something like that, and bypasses some of the issues that YTDLP runs into. 1197 01:14:43,742 --> 01:14:46,860 Really nice. And it's one of these things that once you set it up, 1198 01:14:47,562 --> 01:14:50,180 not only do you generally not have to think about it as long as it doesn't break, 1199 01:14:51,057 --> 01:14:57,670 but it makes the experience of watching YouTube not feel like YouTube, right? 1200 01:14:57,670 --> 01:15:01,627 It just, there's a couple of channels I want to watch and I don't want the rest of that crap. 1201 01:15:02,330 --> 01:15:08,770 And because it does also integrate things like skip intro or things like that, 1202 01:15:08,770 --> 01:15:11,432 it feels more like an actual TV series that I watch. 1203 01:15:11,595 --> 01:15:14,820 Uh it's you know because i think the original development of pinflat kind of 1204 01:15:14,820 --> 01:15:19,280 stopped right seemingly um so this is a continuation in a few ways including 1205 01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:24,290 i mean like original sqlite only this one adds postgres support yes uh it adds 1206 01:15:24,290 --> 01:15:26,570 oauth and oidc support yeah, 1207 01:15:28,754 --> 01:15:32,280 before you kind of got a basic worker pool now it has live diagnostics granular 1208 01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:36,370 worker tuning it also has better support for single video sources one-off direct 1209 01:15:36,370 --> 01:15:41,020 video downloads if you want to do that too which is pretty convenient so big upgrade. 1210 01:15:41,269 --> 01:15:43,780 And then you know you just plumb it in you have it saved to a directory that 1211 01:15:43,780 --> 01:15:47,360 you have jellyfin or plex index you add that as a library so i just have a youtube 1212 01:15:47,360 --> 01:15:50,388 library and if you were to browse it you'd be like this is great, 1213 01:15:51,073 --> 01:15:54,750 um but with pinch flat having some issues and kind of not getting updated much 1214 01:15:54,750 --> 01:16:00,396 it was really great to see pinch flat ngx come along and it's also gpl3 as well, 1215 01:16:03,014 --> 01:16:07,641 Big recommend, and especially if you need to archive some videos, 1216 01:16:07,641 --> 01:16:10,211 like if there's a channel that has really helpful instruction videos that you 1217 01:16:10,211 --> 01:16:11,280 want to archive offline. 1218 01:16:11,826 --> 01:16:16,644 The other reason I started using this is there's some videos that I don't mind at all my kids watch. 1219 01:16:16,998 --> 01:16:20,661 There's other videos, not a big fan. And so this is a way to kind of get access 1220 01:16:20,661 --> 01:16:24,841 for the family to YouTube in a way that doesn't leak into the other videos that 1221 01:16:24,841 --> 01:16:25,787 maybe you're worried about. 1222 01:16:26,060 --> 01:16:28,961 So it's nice from a parental standpoint too. So it's Pinch Flat NGX. 1223 01:16:29,541 --> 01:16:30,951 90% Elixir. 1224 01:16:30,951 --> 01:16:32,300 No, that's cool. 1225 01:16:32,480 --> 01:16:33,426 We need a sound for that one. 1226 01:16:33,926 --> 01:16:37,234 Something cool, like an Excalibur kind of sound or something. 1227 01:16:37,943 --> 01:16:41,285 But we will have links to all of this in the show notes, Wes. 1228 01:16:41,436 --> 01:16:43,236 And where do people find those show notes? Well, 1229 01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:47,328 that's on our website at linuxunplugged.com. And this is episode 692. 1230 01:16:47,955 --> 01:16:51,111 Or you can find it over at jupiterbroadcasting.com. Either website, 1231 01:16:51,111 --> 01:16:52,355 you'll have our RSS feed. 1232 01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:55,881 That's the pro move. Grab that feed, put it in your podcast catcher of choice. 1233 01:16:55,881 --> 01:16:57,556 Get the episode every week, obviously. 1234 01:16:58,015 --> 01:16:59,971 But take a look at it, too. There's some useful stuff in there. 1235 01:16:59,971 --> 01:17:01,301 Mm-hmm. Cloud chapters. Yeah. 1236 01:17:01,721 --> 01:17:01,721 Json, 1237 01:17:04,406 --> 01:17:06,206 json json json. 1238 01:17:06,368 --> 01:17:11,251 We also have transcripts vtt and srt srt and you put something special in. 1239 01:17:11,251 --> 01:17:15,314 There's an mp4 in there too i don't know why but there is don't do it. 1240 01:17:15,471 --> 01:17:16,241 Don't even look at it. 1241 01:17:16,241 --> 01:17:19,691 Don't don't do it don't do it don't do it although brent's so damn handsome. 1242 01:17:20,213 --> 01:17:21,081 Sometimes there's cats. 1243 01:17:21,661 --> 01:17:25,911 Yeah and dogs there's that too all right that's everything for us guess what 1244 01:17:25,911 --> 01:17:29,951 and we will be back live at a regular time back from texas linux fest and i'm 1245 01:17:29,951 --> 01:17:31,405 sure with stories to share, 1246 01:17:35,230 --> 01:17:40,926 So, why don't you head on over to jblive.tv and make it a Tuesday on a Sunday. 1247 01:17:40,926 --> 01:17:46,072 We get together over at jblive.tv and jblive.fm if you're on the go at 10 a.m. Pacific. 1248 01:17:46,693 --> 01:17:50,461 Convert it at your local time at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendars. 1249 01:17:50,769 --> 01:17:54,368 Don't forget our members get the full bootleg, and it's usually a whopper. 1250 01:17:54,687 --> 01:17:56,928 And don't forget to get your home labs decorated. 1251 01:17:57,044 --> 01:17:57,256 Yes. 1252 01:17:57,276 --> 01:17:58,206 Prepare for submission. 1253 01:17:58,206 --> 01:18:02,193 That's right. Coming soon, we'll have more information, and I'll be on the website as well. 1254 01:18:02,849 --> 01:18:06,846 Thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode of Your Unplugged Program. 1255 01:18:06,846 --> 01:18:08,300 Thank you to John for joining us. 1256 01:18:08,810 --> 01:18:12,626 Good luck to all of their endeavors. And with that, we will see you right back 1257 01:18:12,626 --> 01:18:15,991 here next Tuesday, as in Sunday.