Full Transcript for Analyst Talk LEAN - NAPSPS - Ben Haiman

this, this great interest both from the sworn members and 68 00:03:49,424 --> 00:03:53,234 professional staff members just really talking and better understanding the 69 00:03:53,234 --> 00:03:57,594 ways that professional staff members serve the public safety organizations, 70 00:03:57,594 --> 00:04:01,374 but also the unique challenges that they have from being members within. 71 00:04:01,394 --> 00:04:06,874 In 2025, we convened our first symposium of professional staff 72 00:04:06,904 --> 00:04:07,984 in Charlottesville, Virginia. 73 00:04:07,984 --> 00:04:11,144 We called it the Leading Without a Badge Conference. 74 00:04:11,394 --> 00:04:15,274 And that conference brought together people from 22 states, 185 folks 75 00:04:15,274 --> 00:04:16,884 in attendance that first year. 76 00:04:17,224 --> 00:04:21,384 And really a wide range of disciplines, from folks that were data scientists 77 00:04:21,414 --> 00:04:27,124 and oversaw analytical teams, to others that were serving in other aspects, from 78 00:04:27,124 --> 00:04:31,304 fleet managers and IT directors, budget managers, and all k- across the board. 79 00:04:31,834 --> 00:04:36,114 What we saw was tremendous passion around public safety, and so 80 00:04:36,114 --> 00:04:37,714 we knew we were onto something. 81 00:04:38,034 --> 00:04:42,524 The core planning committee then got together and started to form 82 00:04:42,734 --> 00:04:46,804 this 501[c] membership organization called the National Association 83 00:04:46,814 --> 00:04:49,654 of Professional Staff, and we launched it at that conference. 84 00:04:49,974 --> 00:04:56,454 Over the past year, now 14, 15 months we're represented by over 1,500 85 00:04:56,454 --> 00:05:01,024 dues-paying individual members and that network just continues to grow. 86 00:05:01,034 --> 00:05:04,374 We've been doing regional conferences and events to really bring that 87 00:05:04,374 --> 00:05:08,374 kind of networking element of professional staff members together. 88 00:05:08,414 --> 00:05:11,344 We've continued the national conferences, and we've also had 89 00:05:11,354 --> 00:05:15,054 interest internationally and have been building that network as well. 90 00:05:15,224 --> 00:05:17,544 So what does the association do? 91 00:05:17,554 --> 00:05:21,494 It serves as a hub for professional staff leaders and members 92 00:05:21,754 --> 00:05:22,884 to connect with each other. 93 00:05:22,884 --> 00:05:26,000 We do that through things like our third- Third Thursday, an informal 94 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,500 networking a Zoom call where you can meet folks from around the country. 95 00:05:29,500 --> 00:05:34,440 We do that through our state liaisons, individuals that represent individual 96 00:05:34,450 --> 00:05:37,910 states and help connect with all the various great work and state 97 00:05:37,910 --> 00:05:39,670 associations that are happening. 98 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,390 We do that through partnerships with national organizations like 99 00:05:43,420 --> 00:05:49,300 NALE and NOBLE as well as IACP and other organizations where we show up 100 00:05:49,670 --> 00:05:53,700 and really create that space unique for professional staff members. 101 00:05:53,950 --> 00:05:58,070 While they might be part of other organizations this organization is 102 00:05:58,070 --> 00:06:02,960 really different because it is a the space for those professional 103 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,640 staff members to be with peers from across the country and really to 104 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,560 have a support network in some part. 105 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:12,870 We know that public safety organizations are represented anywhere between 20 106 00:06:12,870 --> 00:06:17,170 and 30% by professional staff members, but they're the minority in the broader 107 00:06:17,170 --> 00:06:20,200 culture of those organizations, so those are some unique challenges 108 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:21,980 that we dive into in our events. 109 00:06:21,980 --> 00:06:24,520 And then there's things that are ubiquitous for those that are in 110 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,400 sworn positions and professional staff positions, like health and wellness And 111 00:06:28,450 --> 00:06:32,310 burnout on the job that we also dive into, but are just as relevant for our members 112 00:06:32,390 --> 00:06:34,460 as any member serving in public safety. 113 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,530 The association really works at the intersection of professional 114 00:06:38,530 --> 00:06:42,500 development, networking, and advocacy, and those are our three primary 115 00:06:42,500 --> 00:06:46,220 pillars that we work with through our members across the country. 116 00:06:46,350 --> 00:06:46,540 Yeah. 117 00:06:46,550 --> 00:06:51,890 You mentioned members that weren't necessarily part of law enforcement 118 00:06:51,900 --> 00:06:55,570 or got into more fire and corrections. 119 00:06:55,900 --> 00:06:58,140 Is there a criteria for membership? 120 00:06:58,240 --> 00:06:58,650 Yeah. 121 00:06:58,650 --> 00:07:02,350 So we look at folks that are serving in in a professional 122 00:07:02,350 --> 00:07:05,740 staff, non-uniform, sworn position. 123 00:07:05,950 --> 00:07:08,540 And if you come to any of our events there's always this debate on 124 00:07:08,540 --> 00:07:11,780 terminology because- … technically anyone that serves in government is 125 00:07:11,780 --> 00:07:13,690 sworn through an oath of office, right? 126 00:07:13,690 --> 00:07:15,680 So you can't use sworn and non-sworn. 127 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:16,390 Yeah. 128 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,640 Civilian has a, a, a kind of terminology that has significance. 129 00:07:20,660 --> 00:07:25,590 But w- we look at folks that are not serving in what we think of as uniformed, 130 00:07:25,610 --> 00:07:28,220 sworn positions in respective agencies. 131 00:07:28,230 --> 00:07:33,280 So that opens up this whole gamut of service in corrections, in fire and EMS. 132 00:07:33,540 --> 00:07:37,560

Emergency communications is another area where many of our members come from. 133 00:07:37,860 --> 00:07:42,110 But but the criteria is that you're, ser- to be a, a full member, 134 00:07:42,130 --> 00:07:45,140 to, to come from one of those environments of government service. 135 00:07:45,180 --> 00:07:49,470 And we certainly have affiliate members that might have been previously in 136 00:07:49,470 --> 00:07:53,890 an organization but now serve for corporate interest or so forth. 137 00:07:54,100 --> 00:07:58,430 But within the organization, we're really targeting folks that are working in these 138 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:03,190 public safety environments that, that are part of that professional staff workforce. 139 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:03,550 Yeah. 140 00:08:03,700 --> 00:08:08,800 So you mentioned networking and training, and those are the typical 141 00:08:09,630 --> 00:08:12,480 goals and roles for association. 142 00:08:12,730 --> 00:08:17,180 I'm curious on the advocacy portion of this, 'cause that's a section 143 00:08:17,180 --> 00:08:23,180 that in some associations I, I don't necessarily see as, as a goal or at 144 00:08:23,190 --> 00:08:25,470 least as a pillar, as you described. 145 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,420 Talk a little bit more about that piece, 'cause again, I think that is less 146 00:08:29,450 --> 00:08:31,660 common of a role for an association. 147 00:08:31,940 --> 00:08:32,760 Yeah, absolutely. 148 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,740 The National Association of Professional Staff and Public 149 00:08:34,740 --> 00:08:39,330 Safety is registered as a 501[c][6] professional membership association. 150 00:08:39,330 --> 00:08:43,300 And what that means is that we can engage in advocacy on behalf of the members. 151 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:48,440 What stands that apart from traditional 501[c][3]s, our members often come to 152 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:53,364 us and say, "Hey, look-" The state is looking at let's say a liability issue 153 00:08:53,374 --> 00:08:55,374 related to professional staff members. 154 00:08:55,404 --> 00:08:56,554 Would you weigh in? 155 00:08:56,554 --> 00:09:00,944 And a traditional 501[c][3] organization is not gonna be in a 156 00:09:01,024 --> 00:09:06,104 position to, to really advocate for the members as we might be able to do. 157 00:09:06,394 --> 00:09:09,634 And so some of the issues that we've already looked at and weighed in on 158 00:09:09,914 --> 00:09:13,714 deal with things like work- workman workman's compensation and liability. 159 00:09:13,714 --> 00:09:18,664 So in many states, if a sworn member is hurt or injured on the job, they 160 00:09:18,664 --> 00:09:22,304 receive, significant benefits from the state and protection coverage. 161 00:09:22,624 --> 00:09:27,454 But we have professional staff members that are working in a civilian capacity 162 00:09:27,654 --> 00:09:31,864 that are responding to calls for service, whether they're a co-responder or an 163 00:09:31,874 --> 00:09:35,794

accident investigator, and they're out in the field doing very similar 164 00:09:35,834 --> 00:09:39,344 work from a liability perspective to the exposure that they have. 165 00:09:39,664 --> 00:09:42,664 And some states have started to look at this and say, we might want to 166 00:09:42,664 --> 00:09:46,704 expand coverage." Those are examples where association can weigh in and 167 00:09:46,704 --> 00:09:49,504 say, we think that's a best practice, and in fact, you should do that. 168 00:09:49,504 --> 00:09:52,904 It'll attract more people into the profession. 169 00:09:52,914 --> 00:09:57,794 You'll be able to take care of people if they're hurt and injured in, in, 170 00:09:57,804 --> 00:10:01,874 their official capacity." And so it allows us to write letters, to reach 171 00:10:01,884 --> 00:10:07,634 out to elected officials and to take positions on various legislative matters 172 00:10:07,754 --> 00:10:09,904 to really, advocate for our members. 173 00:10:10,124 --> 00:10:14,164 Some of the other ways that this comes up and, and these are all case-by-case 174 00:10:14,204 --> 00:10:18,784 pieces, is really just advocating around the culture of professional 175 00:10:18,784 --> 00:10:23,384 staff and ensuring that they're seen as valuable and contributing members 176 00:10:23,384 --> 00:10:27,614 and equal when it comes to policies that departments are putting out. 177 00:10:27,664 --> 00:10:31,604 In some of our conversations, we hear about professional staff members 178 00:10:31,704 --> 00:10:35,854 really being second-class citizens , in organizations that they serve. 179 00:10:36,184 --> 00:10:39,594 And while we're not going to take, statements on individual personnel 180 00:10:39,594 --> 00:10:44,804 matters or individual issues we really do serve as a body to advocate 181 00:10:44,814 --> 00:10:46,964 for ways to improve the profession. 182 00:10:46,964 --> 00:10:51,594 And part of that ensures that professional staff members have seats at the table. 183 00:10:51,784 --> 00:10:54,904 That they have a voice, that their leadership is listening to that. 184 00:10:55,164 --> 00:10:59,194 And ways that we can kinda convene police chiefs and executives as we do 185 00:10:59,194 --> 00:11:02,624 at all of our regional events and to have our professional staff members hear 186 00:11:02,704 --> 00:11:06,564 from them but also have those leaders hear from professional staff members 187 00:11:06,564 --> 00:11:08,364 on some of the issues and challenges. 188 00:11:08,794 --> 00:11:13,424 One great example of… at, at our last national conference someone raised 189 00:11:13,424 --> 00:11:17,284 the question about professional staff members serving at the leadership table. 190 00:11:17,634 --> 00:11:19,514 And, we've pushed on that a bit. 191 00:11:19,534 --> 00:11:23,504 And to hear, some of the self-reflection from the chiefs on the panel about 192 00:11:23,504 --> 00:11:27,084 ways that they might consider greater representation of professional 193 00:11:27,084 --> 00:11:30,634 staff members, that's a piece of what it's about, to ensure, that- 194 00:11:30,644 --> 00:11:34,684 that organizations, and particulars organizations, move into, the next 195 00:11:34,684 --> 00:11:39,144 decade, which will get more complex with, the really - prevalence of AI and 196 00:11:39,154 --> 00:11:41,084 all sorts of additional technologies. 197 00:11:41,434 --> 00:11:44,224 We know that the skill sets the professional staff bring 198 00:11:44,224 --> 00:11:45,894 to the table are so critical. 199 00:11:46,124 --> 00:11:49,684 And so having them have a seat at the table, a voice at the table 200 00:11:49,844 --> 00:11:52,854 and being really seen as key strategic thought partners will 201 00:11:52,854 --> 00:11:55,034 be so critical for the time ahead. 202 00:11:55,204 --> 00:12:00,664 Speaking of complexity, so you mentioned at the state level, but one of the things 203 00:12:00,664 --> 00:12:06,294 that comes up again and again on, on this podcast is That in the US there's, what, 204 00:12:06,294 --> 00:12:09,964 17, 18,000 different police agencies. 205 00:12:10,034 --> 00:12:15,554 That can obviously is a whole other level and complexity there for a 206 00:12:15,604 --> 00:12:21,074 national organization to be able to respond to something that might 207 00:12:21,084 --> 00:12:23,264 just be happening at one department. 208 00:12:23,364 --> 00:12:23,804 Yeah. 209 00:12:23,854 --> 00:12:24,674 That's right. 210 00:12:24,724 --> 00:12:29,124 But, you know- … the the beauty of American public safety is 211 00:12:29,124 --> 00:12:30,974 the joys of federalism, right? 212 00:12:30,994 --> 00:12:33,454 And you don't have one national department. 213 00:12:33,454 --> 00:12:35,504 You don't have a single state department. 214 00:12:35,504 --> 00:12:41,904 You have the 17, 18, however many thousand agencies across the country. 215 00:12:42,284 --> 00:12:47,064 And while the majority of our members do come from, small, mid-size, or large 216 00:12:47,064 --> 00:12:50,944 agencies, we don't have a lot of members in those really small agencies that 217 00:12:50,944 --> 00:12:52,864 make up so much of American policing. 218 00:12:52,864 --> 00:12:56,414 If you think about those agencies, often it's a chief or a chief 219 00:12:56,414 --> 00:13:00,084 and a sergeant, but they don't have a, a, a rack of analysts or 220 00:13:00,104 --> 00:13:01,774 professional staff members working. 221 00:13:02,144 --> 00:13:05,294 But certainly the mid-size and the large agencies do. 222 00:13:05,574 --> 00:13:09,484 And so while the association isn't trying to play Whac-A-Mole with 223 00:13:09,484 --> 00:13:14,264 individual issues that pop up around the country, there are themes that appear. 224 00:13:14,644 --> 00:13:18,554 And when those themes appear, they can be part of our educational programming. 225 00:13:18,554 --> 00:13:22,834 They can be part of what we write about and what we put out on, on, various 226

00:13:22,844 --> 00:13:27,064 publications with hope that some of those individual players are able to 227 00:13:27,064 --> 00:13:31,204 then refer to these resources as they're thinking about their own environments. 228 00:13:31,524 --> 00:13:35,634 That's one of the purposes of our state liaisons, and over half the states of the 229 00:13:35,634 --> 00:13:39,664 US already have a state liaison seated within the organization, and we're still 230 00:13:39,664 --> 00:13:41,564 recruiting some of the states that don't. 231 00:13:41,944 --> 00:13:44,914 But in those, they really serve as that connection point to help 232 00:13:44,914 --> 00:13:46,504 with those state level issues. 233 00:13:46,784 --> 00:13:51,024 And I can point to examples of, members that have raised things that have been 234 00:13:51,034 --> 00:13:54,794 happening and where we've been able to connect with resources and best practices 235 00:13:55,084 --> 00:13:59,604 from hiring to, how we deal with salary and compensation, and that's a, a big 236 00:13:59,604 --> 00:14:03,304 issue because a lot of s- a lot of agencies, there's very set schedules 237 00:14:03,304 --> 00:14:06,734 for sworn members, and the professional staff members that are working alongside 238 00:14:06,734 --> 00:14:11,204 them tend to follow city or general payroll schedules that, that leaves 239 00:14:11,214 --> 00:14:14,944 huge salary disparities for folks that are serving in the same organization. 240 00:14:14,944 --> 00:14:19,634 Helping to share, how different states are tackling this, how different jurisdictions 241 00:14:19,634 --> 00:14:21,954 are tackling this can be very helpful. 242 00:14:21,954 --> 00:14:26,114 And while this information can exist in other forums and places this 243 00:14:26,114 --> 00:14:31,024 association really is unique because of the singular lens on professional 244 00:14:31,024 --> 00:14:32,864 staff and the professional staff focus. 245 00:14:34,436 --> 00:14:37,436 I'm gonna use civilian versus sworn just because that's what I 246 00:14:37,466 --> 00:14:43,406 normally have used on this podcast, the idea of second-class citizens. 247 00:14:43,406 --> 00:14:45,736 And it does come up a lot. 248 00:14:45,746 --> 00:14:50,608 In fact, analysts will talk about one of their shining moments is The 249 00:14:50,648 --> 00:14:52,648 time where they felt they got buy-in. 250 00:14:52,998 --> 00:14:53,288 Yeah. 251 00:14:53,378 --> 00:15:00,078 And how important that was to be seen as part of the team, and to realize 252 00:15:00,098 --> 00:15:05,848 that Whether it's true or not, even a perception of being different in 253 00:15:05,848 --> 00:15:08,728 the office can weigh on analysts. 254 00:15:08,938 --> 00:15:14,018 I'm curious, is it similar with other professional staff Are you 255 00:15:14,018 --> 00:15:17,288 hearing the same thing, or is there a different song being played? 256 00:15:17,418 --> 00:15:20,798 Yeah, no, if you close your eyes it sounds exactly the same. 257 00:15:20,818 --> 00:15:23,908 And as you move around the country, though, it does sound different. 258 00:15:23,918 --> 00:15:26,338 And one of the things that's very interesting to me, we've had 259 00:15:26,338 --> 00:15:30,428 regional events so far in Miami, Mesa, Arizona, Sacramento, Denver. 260 00:15:30,428 --> 00:15:35,198 We have one coming up in Chicago and New York and back to Miami later this year. 261 00:15:35,478 --> 00:15:39,648 That conversation is different in different parts of the country. 262 00:15:39,898 --> 00:15:43,328 It's different about the level of inclusion, the level of professional 263 00:15:43,328 --> 00:15:45,528 staff members in leadership roles. 264 00:15:45,798 --> 00:15:50,838 The level that folks like data scientists and, members of the analytical community 265 00:15:50,868 --> 00:15:54,188 are seen as thought partners versus just a, oh, yeah, we need to get the 266 00:15:54,188 --> 00:15:56,508 report and the widget from that person. 267 00:15:56,818 --> 00:15:59,248 That does look different in different places. 268 00:15:59,298 --> 00:16:00,758 But some of the same themes, right? 269 00:16:00,778 --> 00:16:04,998 Agencies where, a data scientist, let's say at one agency, is not being 270 00:16:04,998 --> 00:16:09,698 included in decision-making, feels as a second-class citizen, often doesn't 271 00:16:09,698 --> 00:16:14,528 have key access, then it probably isn't gonna be a much different conversation 272 00:16:14,528 --> 00:16:20,328 with an HR specialist or an IT specialist or that, that's a culture issue within 273 00:16:20,328 --> 00:16:22,748 that particular department and agency. 274 00:16:23,038 --> 00:16:27,818 Where you find some of the most thoughtful sworn leadership they really 275 00:16:27,818 --> 00:16:32,088 understand this, and they understand the value of different skill sets. 276 00:16:32,088 --> 00:16:37,498 And they bring, not to, flip the scale in another direction but they really do try 277 00:16:37,498 --> 00:16:40,048 to elevate everybody within the agency. 278 00:16:40,118 --> 00:16:44,038 And part of that means going to those folks that have the analytical skill 279 00:16:44,038 --> 00:16:47,128 sets and saying, "Hey, help me with this problem." Or, "Can you figure 280 00:16:47,128 --> 00:16:50,818 out what problems I have and how you can sol- solve them?" And then being 281 00:16:50,818 --> 00:16:54,628 able to leverage the sworn members within that agency to actually carry 282 00:16:54,628 --> 00:16:56,608 out and impact some of that mission. 283 00:16:56,668 --> 00:17:00,488 And w- what I do see is that conversation within agencies that 284 00:17:00,498 --> 00:17:02,858 have a culture that needs improvement. 285 00:17:02,878 --> 00:17:05,058 Yeah, it sounds pretty sa- pretty much the same. 286 00:17:05,058 --> 00:17:06,338 It doesn't matter the role. 287 00:17:06,608 --> 00:17:08,618 That, that conversation is very similar. 288 00:17:08,768 --> 00:17:12,108 But I also see-

that it's so leadership dependent. 289 00:17:12,118 --> 00:17:15,248 You have new chiefs and new sheriffs and new commissioners that come 290 00:17:15,248 --> 00:17:19,148 in and very quickly they recognize the difference that's happening. 291 00:17:19,158 --> 00:17:22,648 I work very closely with many state policing organizations, and I can 292 00:17:22,648 --> 00:17:27,138 point to some examples of where you have colonels and superintendents 293 00:17:27,188 --> 00:17:31,138 that are really leveraging their professional staff workforce. 294 00:17:31,178 --> 00:17:33,718 And they recognize the skill sets that come in. 295 00:17:34,048 --> 00:17:38,528 I can also point to departments around the country that are really going backwards 296 00:17:38,528 --> 00:17:43,868 in time and, making it unpleasant places for professional staff to work and 297 00:17:43,868 --> 00:17:46,128 putting more emphasis on sworn members. 298 00:17:46,408 --> 00:17:51,468 And unfortunately, that story kind of ends the same way every single time, right? 299 00:17:51,468 --> 00:17:52,788 There's broader culture issues. 300 00:17:52,788 --> 00:17:54,848 It isn't just a professional staff culture. 301 00:17:55,128 --> 00:17:57,188 It's a culture issue of the agency. 302 00:17:57,238 --> 00:18:00,978 And if you get it right for professional staff members, you're also 303 00:18:00,978 --> 00:18:02,838 getting it right for sworn members. 304 00:18:03,138 --> 00:18:06,488 But the opposite of that isn't necessarily true. 305 00:18:06,488 --> 00:18:10,558 If you're only getting it right for sworn members you actually are leaving a 306 00:18:10,578 --> 00:18:13,158 pretty significant gap within the agency. 307 00:18:13,158 --> 00:18:15,658 I don't think this is an analyst problem only 308 00:18:16,206 --> 00:18:16,366 Yeah. 309 00:18:16,706 --> 00:18:25,036 I'm also glad to hear that y- you're looking into the idea of more civilians 310 00:18:25,136 --> 00:18:27,386 on leadership positions, Absolutely 311 00:18:27,386 --> 00:18:29,136 especially of executive positions. 312 00:18:29,166 --> 00:18:35,346 'Cause w- one of my many soapboxes on this podcast is that there, the analysts 313 00:18:35,656 --> 00:18:40,756 progress and either they stay right in maybe that middle tier or they go into 314 00:18:40,756 --> 00:18:45,066 the private sector and there's- Yeah … 'cause there's nowhere to, for them to go. 315 00:18:45,066 --> 00:18:51,056 And I really feel for a monumental shift in the profession, that we need 316 00:18:51,066 --> 00:18:56,546 more analyst leaders making their way all the way up to the executive 317 00:18:56,636 --> 00:19:02,686 board level to really drive home some of the changes that I'd like to see. 318 00:19:02,746 --> 00:19:05,386 I'll join you on that soapbox for just a second. 319 00:19:05,446 --> 00:19:09,156 When we think about the role of professional staff leaders in these 320 00:19:09,186 --> 00:19:14,106 organizations and I know, in DC we had crime analysts and data scientists 321 00:19:14,106 --> 00:19:17,506 and we had homicide analysts and a variety of different specializations. 322 00:19:17,506 --> 00:19:20,526 I think when you think about that skill set there's a few 323 00:19:20,526 --> 00:19:21,546 things that come to mind. 324 00:19:21,556 --> 00:19:26,966 One, you need the ability to grow from an entry level position into truly 325 00:19:26,966 --> 00:19:30,536 that kind of experienced veteran posi- And that, that includes both skill 326 00:19:30,536 --> 00:19:35,456 and lateral development, but also, some promotion within range there. 327 00:19:35,476 --> 00:19:38,936 Where you join and where you end can't be the same place. 328 00:19:39,316 --> 00:19:43,166 But- … but there also needs to be that opportunity to step into leadership 329 00:19:43,166 --> 00:19:44,766 and that's a different conversation. 330 00:19:44,766 --> 00:19:49,246 I've worked with amazing analysts who have absolutely no desire to serve in 331 00:19:49,246 --> 00:19:51,526 supervisory positions, and that's great. 332 00:19:51,566 --> 00:19:56,996 We need fan- fantastic people that can do that work, but we also need people that 333 00:19:56,996 --> 00:20:00,446 can think on the strategy level and the coordination level and integration into 334 00:20:00,446 --> 00:20:02,536 the decision-making of the organization. 335 00:20:02,536 --> 00:20:06,966 And during my time in Washington, DC, we absolutely had- … some 336 00:20:07,006 --> 00:20:10,956 brilliant minds that were able to serve in those leadership capacities. 337 00:20:11,266 --> 00:20:16,246 As I thought about how to structure, elements and units, I always thought 338 00:20:16,496 --> 00:20:20,036 that one of the best structures is you have a sworn director and a civilian 339 00:20:20,036 --> 00:20:23,136 deputy director, and when that sworn director moves, then you have a civilian 340 00:20:23,136 --> 00:20:25,006 director and a sworn deputy director. 341 00:20:25,336 --> 00:20:29,996 And that idea of, that continuity of opera- by leveraging this 342 00:20:30,006 --> 00:20:31,606 more professional staff mindset. 343 00:20:31,606 --> 00:20:36,006 But that takes culture and that takes- … really supporting the idea that, un- 344 00:20:36,046 --> 00:20:39,286 unless you nee- you know, unless you need an armed agent of the government 345 00:20:39,296 --> 00:20:44,086 who's going to be able to make power, make arrests and/or issue warrants then 346 00:20:44,086 --> 00:20:46,206 a professional staff member can do that. 347 00:20:46,506 --> 00:20:50,776 And often when it comes to these operational decision-making elements then 348 00:20:50,796 --> 00:20:55,816 you don't need you don't need a, a uniform and a badge in order to do that, but you 349 00:20:55,816 --> 00:21:01,046 do need relevant skills and experience and that often can be developed and 350 00:21:01,056 --> 00:21:05,316 curated through professional training and what analysts bring into the agencies.

351 00:21:05,446 --> 00:21:05,696 Yeah. 352 00:21:05,886 --> 00:21:08,596 But a- another, I won't assume it's a complexity. 353 00:21:09,026 --> 00:21:14,552 . Where my head's going now is unions So this is obviously another an- another 354 00:21:14,572 --> 00:21:20,132 aspect of, again it's gonna might be unique depending on the department, 355 00:21:20,142 --> 00:21:23,152 the state, the region of the country. 356 00:21:23,472 --> 00:21:29,582 What has been your view in terms of trying to advocate for professional 357 00:21:29,582 --> 00:21:32,082 staffs and also dealing with the unions? 358 00:21:32,222 --> 00:21:32,372 Yeah. 359 00:21:32,662 --> 00:21:37,482 We actually have not taken any positions on unions or really have 360 00:21:37,602 --> 00:21:41,982 not done an entire amount there yet, but I can imagine doing that. 361 00:21:42,012 --> 00:21:44,652 I come from a very heavily unionized environment. 362 00:21:44,722 --> 00:21:49,692 I have extremely positive experiences working with unions. 363 00:21:50,072 --> 00:21:51,712 W- we are not a union, right? 364 00:21:51,712 --> 00:21:55,942 And so we're not sitting here to advocate for the pay and benefits of the members. 365 00:21:56,222 --> 00:22:00,172 Though, elements of advocacy on good practice can cross into 366 00:22:00,172 --> 00:22:03,602 there where we might be supportive of work that unions are doing. 367 00:22:03,982 --> 00:22:07,662 And ultimately, I think there's a lot of shared alignment in the goal of, creating 368 00:22:07,662 --> 00:22:11,462 positive work environments, ensuring that members are appropriately compensated. 369 00:22:11,492 --> 00:22:14,602 Like, all of that, can certainly be achieved through, 370 00:22:14,622 --> 00:22:16,142 effective collective bargaining. 371 00:22:16,442 --> 00:22:20,362 But, for our… and I recognize this is a very state-dependent question. 372 00:22:20,392 --> 00:22:24,262 Some states have strong unions, others have collective, associations, 373 00:22:24,262 --> 00:22:25,732 and some don't have anything. 374 00:22:26,112 --> 00:22:30,412 But at the end of the day we want to ensure that professional staff members 375 00:22:30,412 --> 00:22:34,542 are well incorporated in the environments that they are, that they're compensated 376 00:22:34,542 --> 00:22:38,092 appropriately, they're supervised properly, they have a, a place where 377 00:22:38,092 --> 00:22:41,532 they enjoy coming to work and that they have a place that they can contribute 378 00:22:41,532 --> 00:22:43,222 to the public safety of that community. 379 00:22:43,522 --> 00:22:46,352 And I think a lot of those are shared goals with - unions 380 00:22:46,352 --> 00:22:48,212 and professional associations. 381 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,590 Hi, this is Christi Barletta, and my public service announcement is 382 00:22:58,710 --> 00:23:02,260 don't be that person that goes and sits down in someone's office to 383 00:23:02,270 --> 00:23:04,390 tell stories when it's time to leave.

384 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,480 It's not story time when it's quitting time. 385 00:23:08,580 --> 00:23:12,620 Hi, my name is Brian Napolitano, and I'm here to talk about name badges. 386 00:23:13,050 --> 00:23:15,860 When you're attending a training or a conference, please make sure your name 387 00:23:15,860 --> 00:23:19,130 badge is at an appropriate height and is legible enough so that strangers 388 00:23:19,130 --> 00:23:22,230 won't be staring where they shouldn't just so they can figure out your name. 389 00:23:22,750 --> 00:23:23,580 Thank you for listening. 390 00:23:24,140 --> 00:23:25,540 My name is Megan Cruz. 391 00:23:25,580 --> 00:23:29,220 , I'm the Crime Analysis Supervisor at Richmond Police, and my public 392 00:23:29,220 --> 00:23:34,970 service announcement is knowing how much, the data and in- the information 393 00:23:34,980 --> 00:23:39,580 that crime analysts touch, applies to everything a department does. 394 00:23:39,890 --> 00:23:45,220 Everything from media responses, to patrol allocation, to solving 395 00:23:45,220 --> 00:23:51,390 crimes, to, overtime allocation, that commanders really should be 396 00:23:51,740 --> 00:23:55,790 tapping their crime analysts before they make any kind of decisions. 397 00:23:55,790 --> 00:23:58,770 Everything should be evidence-based and data-driven. 398 00:24:04,490 --> 00:24:12,190 I recently had on the show Dr. Jessica Herbert, who did a study on law 399 00:24:12,190 --> 00:24:14,130 enforcement analysis job postings. 400 00:24:14,140 --> 00:24:20,820 She reviewed over 800 job announcements analyze the difference between the 401 00:24:20,830 --> 00:24:25,310 announcements and what , the position was actually doing, came up with 402 00:24:25,340 --> 00:24:29,430 some patterns and some trends that she's seeing throughout the country. 403 00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:35,110 We got into a pretty good discussion talking about that that analyst role 404 00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:39,470 in many departments isn't part of a standard operating procedure, that 405 00:24:39,550 --> 00:24:44,380 the analyst is what I refer to as this free… can be this free radical 406 00:24:44,390 --> 00:24:48,730 that can move a little bit more freely throughout a department, working all 407 00:24:48,730 --> 00:24:52,170 the way up from the, to the chief all the way down to the patrol person. 408 00:24:52,310 --> 00:24:57,390 Some of the difficulty that arrives when you don't have that standardization, when 409 00:24:57,390 --> 00:25:01,120 you don't have that written down, that when police chief- you get a change in 410 00:25:01,130 --> 00:25:06,680 leadership, you get a change in analysts, then the whole position can change, right? 411 00:25:06,810 --> 00:25:11,320 And so similar question, is that a, a law enforcement analysis phenomenon 412 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,530 or is that something you're also seeing with other professional staff? 413 00:25:14,740 --> 00:25:15,310 Yeah. 414 00:25:15,310 --> 00:25:18,280

I… my answer to that is gonna be the same, right? 415 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:18,300 Yeah. 416 00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:24,060 That, that's, everybody does think they're unique, and when you spend enough time 417 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,850 working across organizations that these are people and process challenges and 418 00:25:28,850 --> 00:25:31,490 they're not unique to individual contexts. 419 00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:35,500 So- … so I can't give you the unique butterfly stamp on this one. 420 00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:35,510 Yeah. 421 00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:35,530 Yeah. 422 00:25:35,540 --> 00:25:40,560 But I definitely think that's a, a common p- a common gripe that we hear. 423 00:25:40,670 --> 00:25:41,120 Yeah. 424 00:25:41,310 --> 00:25:45,940 While I think it, in terms of the profession may be better, I actually think 425 00:25:45,940 --> 00:25:52,490 that the individual analysts may not like it because in a lot of analysts, they get 426 00:25:52,490 --> 00:25:57,390 the position, they're just told, "There's your computer, go do," and they have 427 00:25:57,410 --> 00:26:03,172 that opportunity to carve out whatever position roles that they want to do. 428 00:26:03,202 --> 00:26:07,102 They ha- they have that freedom to dictate what they're working on. 429 00:26:07,242 --> 00:26:10,872 If it's more of a, in a standard operating procedure, they might get 430 00:26:10,872 --> 00:26:13,942 in there and they're more locked in, they're mo- more boxed in. 431 00:26:13,942 --> 00:26:17,772 So I'm not sure the individual analyst would actually like that, 432 00:26:17,782 --> 00:26:21,492 even though, as I said it's probably better for the profession as a whole. 433 00:26:21,592 --> 00:26:25,872 Yeah, one of the things that's interesting about those that serve in analytical 434 00:26:25,872 --> 00:26:32,532 positions is they do often have a more global lens on the agency, both from the 435 00:26:32,532 --> 00:26:37,682 data perspective, but also they're more often not buried in a component of the 436 00:26:37,682 --> 00:26:40,352 department like some other roles might be. 437 00:26:40,662 --> 00:26:43,962 But they do work across multiple leaders, and they're seen as 438 00:26:43,962 --> 00:26:46,172 kind of a, an asset in that way. 439 00:26:46,442 --> 00:26:50,052 And that gives a lot of advantages if they're given the autonomy 440 00:26:50,062 --> 00:26:54,132 and, and the voice in order to, to share their expertise. 441 00:26:54,182 --> 00:26:57,992 I think the challenge for many police leaders is they didn't 442 00:26:57,992 --> 00:26:59,742 grow up thinking about data. 443 00:26:59,792 --> 00:27:05,170 … They certainly didn't think growing up about analysis And so for them to have 444 00:27:05,170 --> 00:27:11,370 the literacy to understand the value that those analysts bring and how to frame 445 00:27:11,370 --> 00:27:15,900 their operational issues with a hook that the analysts can come back to them 446 00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:20,220 with things

that they then understand how to then turn back into operational 447 00:27:20,230 --> 00:27:22,450 issues is often very challenging. 448 00:27:22,450 --> 00:27:25,460 And the analysts that do it well make themselves really 449 00:27:25,460 --> 00:27:27,460 indispensable to the agency. 450 00:27:27,590 --> 00:27:31,040 And I can point to many examples of where I saw that play out, where you 451 00:27:31,050 --> 00:27:36,760 had people just develop these th- this knowledge of data that was seen as so 452 00:27:36,770 --> 00:27:39,230 critical for department operations. 453 00:27:39,270 --> 00:27:43,380 And, I think where we talk to people that are-- have more frustration, they 454 00:27:43,380 --> 00:27:44,990 haven't gotten to that point yet, right? 455 00:27:45,050 --> 00:27:48,180 They're churning reports that they don't feel like people are reading. 456 00:27:48,300 --> 00:27:52,350 And, e- even yesterday I was talking to a group of analysts from the Delaware, 457 00:27:52,420 --> 00:27:56,390 Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania, kind of the, this region of the country. 458 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,670 And I talked about kind of that level of involvement from just simply doing 459 00:28:01,670 --> 00:28:08,450 tasks and producing reports and being called upon for that to, to really being 460 00:28:08,450 --> 00:28:13,700 seen as a strategic advisor and what that looks like within organizations. 461 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:18,100 Being called upon to actually support and, and then… And so I described 462 00:28:18,100 --> 00:28:22,310 it as the value curve and really five different areas in that, that task 463 00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:27,220 support, the technical expertise a person who's seen as a problem solver. 464 00:28:27,220 --> 00:28:31,240 And you see this in organizations- … where chiefs go to, Jane or Jim 465 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,880 or whoever because they're seen as the person that has answers, right? 466 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,760 And many analysts fall into that bucket. 467 00:28:37,020 --> 00:28:41,560 To then, on that curve, the trusted advisor, that thought partner and then 468 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,030 for some, the strategic leader that are serving in that leadership role and 469 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:50,194 helping to guide the agency but have that kind of deep- analytical ben- bench. 470 00:28:50,194 --> 00:28:53,954 And I talk about that as that value curve of members of the analytical 471 00:28:53,954 --> 00:28:56,804 community and public safety organizations between those five areas. 472 00:28:56,904 --> 00:29:01,054 For law enforcement analysts , why should they consider joining the 473 00:29:01,064 --> 00:29:08,024 association, and what would they gain specifically that they wouldn't get from 474 00:29:08,024 --> 00:29:10,414 maybe analyst specific associations? 475 00:29:10,414 --> 00:29:11,714 Yeah, absolutely. 476 00:29:11,714 --> 00:29:16,304 And every association has a value add in some way to your professional journey. 477 00:29:16,324 --> 00:29:19,054 I think what makes the National Association of Professional Staff and 478 00:29:19,054 --> 00:29:24,894 Public Safety a unique space is it really tackles and engages with core 479 00:29:25,124 --> 00:29:28,924 experiences of professional staff members serving in the profession. 480 00:29:29,304 --> 00:29:32,484 While we have many members of the analytical community, we've partnered 481 00:29:32,494 --> 00:29:36,234 with the organizations you just mentioned on some joint webinars and so forth, 482 00:29:36,544 --> 00:29:42,074 our focus isn't just analysts, but it's on the professional staff experience 483 00:29:42,074 --> 00:29:43,374 in a public safety environment. 484 00:29:43,374 --> 00:29:46,474 And so while you'll be able to connect with other analysts through 485 00:29:46,474 --> 00:29:50,484 the association, the value is really connecting with people that are serving 486 00:29:50,484 --> 00:29:54,834 in a wide range of roles, but in a professional staff basis in public safety 487 00:29:54,834 --> 00:29:59,564 organizations, and thinking about issues and challenges of, strategic leadership, 488 00:29:59,594 --> 00:30:04,634 strategic planning, technology, and things that touch upon the work that analysts 489 00:30:04,634 --> 00:30:10,172 do but in a broad base- association that has so many different skill sets. 490 00:30:10,412 --> 00:30:15,362 Many people that we talk to in particular that are analysts say, "Look I'm enjoying 491 00:30:15,362 --> 00:30:19,782 what I'm doing, but I don't wanna do this forever." And they want to have a career 492 00:30:19,782 --> 00:30:21,392 in public safety where they move up. 493 00:30:21,402 --> 00:30:25,412 One of our board members started as a, as an analyst with the NYPD 494 00:30:25,412 --> 00:30:28,552 and left as a very senior leader in that organization, right? 495 00:30:28,842 --> 00:30:31,712 And that journey didn't come from just being an analyst. 496 00:30:31,722 --> 00:30:35,102 It came from kind of the other skill sets and taking that analytical 497 00:30:35,352 --> 00:30:39,292 experience, but then really becoming that trusted advisor and that strategic 498 00:30:39,292 --> 00:30:40,842 leader within that organization. 499 00:30:41,142 --> 00:30:45,072 And that's where, our association can help people as they move up 500 00:30:45,072 --> 00:30:46,762 and move on in their careers. 501 00:30:46,782 --> 00:30:50,872 It can connect them to a whole host of national players beyond 502 00:30:50,872 --> 00:30:52,562 just the analytical community. 503 00:30:52,842 --> 00:30:55,222 But they'll find plenty of analysts that, and those that 504 00:30:55,222 --> 00:30:58,562 are in supervisory positions too within the association as well. 505 00:30:58,892 --> 00:31:01,892 Look it's $100 a year to join to be a member. 506 00:31:01,932 --> 00:31:06,412 And part of that is being able to be connected with an organization that's 507 00:31:06,412 -->

00:31:08,282 bigger than yourself and your agency. 508 00:31:08,282 --> 00:31:12,082 It's connected to, the events that we do- … with the materials that we put out. 509 00:31:12,112 --> 00:31:16,792 And for many of our members, it's just the belief that they want to see 510 00:31:16,792 --> 00:31:18,962 this exist and they want this space. 511 00:31:19,312 --> 00:31:23,302 And, I hope in time we'll provide value to them that's 512 00:31:23,302 --> 00:31:24,842 equivalent to their membership. 513 00:31:24,852 --> 00:31:29,612 But for many people, they're just really hungry for for the ability 514 00:31:29,622 --> 00:31:33,792 and the unique nature of what the association does and serves, in that 515 00:31:33,792 --> 00:31:38,172 capacity for professional development, advocacy, and networking for those 516 00:31:38,192 --> 00:31:40,052 professional staff members and leaders. 517 00:31:40,052 --> 00:31:42,062 And we appreciate our members. 518 00:31:42,102 --> 00:31:46,422 Members get discounts on any of the events that they go to because they are members. 519 00:31:46,742 --> 00:31:50,202 But more than that, they're part of a national movement to really advance 520 00:31:50,422 --> 00:31:54,152 the interest of professional staff and that we see as, as the value. 521 00:31:54,322 --> 00:31:57,892 So that's what the analysts can get out of the association. 522 00:31:58,032 --> 00:32:02,956 Talk a little bit about How the analysts can help the association and contribute 523 00:32:03,126 --> 00:32:04,316 Yeah, absolutely. 524 00:32:04,356 --> 00:32:07,506 We leverage the skill set of our members that are within. 525 00:32:07,566 --> 00:32:11,326 And so whether it's a topic that they're connected and can talk about, 526 00:32:11,336 --> 00:32:14,696 we have a whole series called Leadership in Practice, two to three-minute 527 00:32:14,706 --> 00:32:16,876 videos that are on various topics. 528 00:32:16,906 --> 00:32:20,326 We'd love to have members of the analytical world give 529 00:32:20,326 --> 00:32:21,336 a Leadership in Practice. 530 00:32:21,346 --> 00:32:22,366 How do they use data? 531 00:32:22,366 --> 00:32:23,906 How do they help decision-making? 532 00:32:23,906 --> 00:32:26,806 What are some of those pieces of advice that they have to someone coming in? 533 00:32:27,126 --> 00:32:30,056 Give us that video that we can post out, and that's all public content. 534 00:32:30,066 --> 00:32:32,536 We don't put that behind the membership wall because we think 535 00:32:32,536 --> 00:32:35,746 it's good for everybody- … but it's supported by the membership. 536 00:32:36,056 --> 00:32:40,226 We have white papers and if folks want to write about an issue or topic or 537 00:32:40,226 --> 00:32:43,886 share research that they're doing that they think might be replicable, we can 538 00:32:43,886 --> 00:32:46,446 be a forum to help distribute that. 539 00:32:46,466 --> 00:32:50,476 But we benefit from the contributions as well, and that relevancy and 540

00:32:50,476 --> 00:32:53,196 currency of the information of what's happening in the field. 541 00:32:53,196 --> 00:32:55,256 So it's a mutual experience. 542 00:32:55,256 --> 00:32:59,536 We leverage our members very highly and, … and we're very fortunate whenever 543 00:32:59,536 --> 00:33:03,416 they call to pull us into something that they're working on in their jurisdiction. 544 00:33:03,586 --> 00:33:08,316 You talked a little bit about conferences and online calls. 545 00:33:08,466 --> 00:33:12,584 What about some of the other aspects of- that are typical with association 546 00:33:12,584 --> 00:33:16,964 mentoring, certifications anything else that would, fall out of the purview 547 00:33:16,964 --> 00:33:18,234 that we haven't talked about already? 548 00:33:18,344 --> 00:33:18,614 Yeah. 549 00:33:18,614 --> 00:33:20,154 So we're a baby association. 550 00:33:20,154 --> 00:33:21,724 We're just over a year. 551 00:33:21,734 --> 00:33:25,214 Yeah And while we have many ideas of certification courses and so 552 00:33:25,214 --> 00:33:28,744 forth, right now the majority of that is in areas of partnership. 553 00:33:28,744 --> 00:33:31,724 So we just partnered between the University of Virginia, the National 554 00:33:31,724 --> 00:33:34,754 Association of Pro- Professional Staff and Public Safety, and the Global 555 00:33:34,754 --> 00:33:39,864 Chief of Staff Association on a unique certification course for chiefs of staff. 556 00:33:39,914 --> 00:33:43,554 And we just actually have finished about 50 folks through 557 00:33:43,564 --> 00:33:45,044 the level one certification. 558 00:33:45,044 --> 00:33:46,824 We have another program later this year. 559 00:33:47,114 --> 00:33:50,784 But we envision individual certification courses becoming 560 00:33:50,784 --> 00:33:52,554 available through the association. 561 00:33:52,894 --> 00:33:54,764 But might not be in year one or two. 562 00:33:54,794 --> 00:33:57,084 Those might be a little bit further down the road. 563 00:33:57,434 --> 00:33:59,904 But definitely something to stay tuned for. 564 00:34:00,134 --> 00:34:05,054 When it comes to, any sort of kind of licensure and those pieces again we're 565 00:34:05,054 --> 00:34:07,364 so new that we're still developing that. 566 00:34:07,384 --> 00:34:11,374 And frankly the interests have primarily been around convening. 567 00:34:11,374 --> 00:34:15,824 And in each of our regional events, it's been amazing to watch that so many 568 00:34:15,824 --> 00:34:20,534 people don't know others in agencies that are just a short distance away. 569 00:34:20,544 --> 00:34:22,304 Or even within their agency. 570 00:34:22,304 --> 00:34:25,654 We were just at one regional event, and people who'd worked together for 571 00:34:25,654 --> 00:34:29,134 15 years had never met each other in person because they worked in 572 00:34:29,134 --> 00:34:30,534 different parts of the state, right? 573 00:34:30,534 --> 00:34:32,104 But they worked for the same organization.

574 00:34:32,104 --> 00:34:35,444 So being able to have that forum is really rewarding. 575 00:34:35,584 --> 00:34:35,814 Yeah. 576 00:34:36,264 --> 00:34:38,254 I, and I just thought of something. 577 00:34:38,634 --> 00:34:43,644 So is… Do you have a nickname for the association, or do you say 578 00:34:43,654 --> 00:34:47,024 N-A-P-S-P-S, or that- How does that go? 579 00:34:47,024 --> 00:34:48,984 I should, that should've been one of my first questions. 580 00:34:48,984 --> 00:34:50,084 I, that's a newbie. 581 00:34:50,084 --> 00:34:50,094 Yeah. 582 00:34:50,094 --> 00:34:53,354 That's a newbie podcaster right there, waiting this long into the interview. 583 00:34:53,754 --> 00:34:54,124 Yeah. 584 00:34:54,124 --> 00:34:57,104 So I usually say the National Association of Professional Staff 585 00:34:57,104 --> 00:34:59,044 and Public Safety, or NAP SPS. 586 00:34:59,124 --> 00:34:59,434 Yeah. 587 00:35:00,064 --> 00:35:02,714 We'll hear every once in a while NAPSPSS, but, … that 588 00:35:02,714 --> 00:35:04,674 definitely is not what we go by. 589 00:35:04,714 --> 00:35:09,354 But NAP SPS, or the National Association of Professional Staff and Public Safety. 590 00:35:09,404 --> 00:35:12,364 It's long, but when you look at law enforcement associations, 591 00:35:12,364 --> 00:35:13,444 they all tend to be. 592 00:35:13,454 --> 00:35:13,474 Yeah. 593 00:35:13,674 --> 00:35:16,154 We fit right in with the the long acronym. 594 00:35:16,154 --> 00:35:20,444 But NAP SPS, or the National Association of Professional Staff and Public Safety. 595 00:35:20,454 --> 00:35:20,714 I got it. 596 00:35:20,714 --> 00:35:21,014 That'll work. 597 00:35:21,014 --> 00:35:21,494 Okay. 598 00:35:21,494 --> 00:35:21,724 Yeah. 599 00:35:21,724 --> 00:35:24,324 I did see… And also I did see on the website where you 600 00:35:24,334 --> 00:35:27,964 had a, a webinar on sleep. 601 00:35:28,114 --> 00:35:28,644 Yeah. 602 00:35:28,694 --> 00:35:31,934 The, the nap jokes on that one just write itself. 603 00:35:32,264 --> 00:35:32,954 Yep, yep. 604 00:35:32,984 --> 00:35:36,534 No, and we didn't use that in any of our teasers for it, 605 00:35:36,534 --> 00:35:38,074 but they do write themselves. 606 00:35:38,154 --> 00:35:41,774 . Is there a particular initiative or project that you're most excited 607 00:35:41,784 --> 00:35:43,104 to work on over the next year? 608 00:35:43,264 --> 00:35:48,114 . What excites me with the association is the momentum of the members. 609 00:35:48,124 --> 00:35:51,644 And we just have so many unique projects that we're working on 610 00:35:51,694 --> 00:35:56,064 nationally and internationally for the association that are rewarding. 611 00:35:56,354 --> 00:35:59,634 Next year we'll even have more regional events all around the country and 612 00:35:59,644 --> 00:36:03,924 just the energy in the room at every one of them has been incredible. 613 00:36:04,224 --> 00:36:08,914 We were fortunate this year, we brought representatives from the association 614 00:36:08,914 --> 00:36:13,134 to Poland to be a part of a law enforcement delegation looking at law 615 00:36:13,134 --> 00:36:16,424 enforcement's role in, in Nazi Germany and the Holocaust, and some of the 616 00:36:16,424 --> 00:36:21,164 atrocities that occurred, and NAPPS was represented there on the global stage. 617 00:36:21,434 --> 00:36:26,364 But as we look at the year ahead there's just a lot of ways that we'll continue 618 00:36:26,404 --> 00:36:32,064 to expand the networking work, the advocacy work creating unique products 619 00:36:32,064 --> 00:36:34,524 that are valuable to association members. 620 00:36:34,524 --> 00:36:37,844 So all of that is active work that the association is doing. 621 00:36:38,254 --> 00:36:42,614 For those that are listening we will put links in the show notes for 622 00:36:42,624 --> 00:36:48,084 additional information the webinars that we talked about how to get involved, 623 00:36:48,094 --> 00:36:51,314 how to join, all that information. 624 00:36:51,364 --> 00:36:54,354 So check that out if you're interested. 625 00:36:54,574 --> 00:36:58,344 I have just four or five real quick questions to end here, Ben. 626 00:36:58,344 --> 00:36:59,204 This has been great. 627 00:36:59,204 --> 00:37:02,494 Appreciate y- all your time and contributions to this episode. 628 00:37:02,644 --> 00:37:08,678 Of course the first one is, what is one misconception about the association? 629 00:37:08,838 --> 00:37:11,728 One misconception about the association. 630 00:37:11,758 --> 00:37:15,558 The misconception about the association is it's been around for a long time. 631 00:37:15,558 --> 00:37:16,858 It hasn't, it's new. 632 00:37:16,868 --> 00:37:16,888 Yeah. 633 00:37:17,368 --> 00:37:18,728 We contend with that. 634 00:37:18,758 --> 00:37:24,458 And I think, the, the other misconception is that it's a bunch of professional staff 635 00:37:24,458 --> 00:37:27,038 members that complain about sworn members. 636 00:37:27,438 --> 00:37:29,348 And that's not true, right? 637 00:37:29,388 --> 00:37:35,198 At the end of the day, what we've seen is a ton of interest from sworn 638 00:37:35,198 --> 00:37:40,198 members as well in, creating the space to work and improve cultures of 639 00:37:40,198 --> 00:37:44,118 organizations and that's both on the sworn side and professional staff side. 640 00:37:44,498 --> 00:37:48,068 And I think we've created unique opportunities at each of our events 641 00:37:48,328 --> 00:37:52,088 for members who do wear the badge and those that don't to come together and 642 00:37:52,088 --> 00:37:54,118 tackle some of these joint issues. 643 00:37:54,118 --> 00:37:57,738 We do it through fireside chats and others, but that might be a misconception. 644 00:37:57,908 --> 00:38:03,838 What's maybe one benefit that maybe is unexpected or surprises the members? 645 00:38:03,948 --> 00:38:04,248 Yeah. 646 00:38:04,248 --> 00:38:08,998 I think the the energy that you feel at any of the

convenings… I've 647 00:38:08,998 --> 00:38:12,098 been to a lot of law enforcement conferences- … a lot of law 648 00:38:12,098 --> 00:38:17,048 enforcement conferences all around the country, but these feel different. 649 00:38:17,178 --> 00:38:21,408 And the energy in the room when you get a bunch of professional staff members 650 00:38:21,408 --> 00:38:26,348 together that care so deeply about their organizations and the profession that, 651 00:38:26,348 --> 00:38:28,588 that surprises me every single time. 652 00:38:28,588 --> 00:38:31,688 And I keep saying to our team, I'm like, "I don't know why I'm surprised 653 00:38:31,688 --> 00:38:35,138 by this. I've been through it enough now to know that this is what to 654 00:38:35,138 --> 00:38:39,738 expect." But every time, the energy, the enthusiasm, the motivation, and 655 00:38:39,748 --> 00:38:44,708 just the genuine desire to do good you very much feel that with this audience. 656 00:38:45,158 --> 00:38:48,158 And then, Best networking advice for a new analyst? 657 00:38:48,308 --> 00:38:48,798 Yeah. 658 00:38:48,858 --> 00:38:54,018 So some of the best lessons in my career weren't learned from my agency, but it was 659 00:38:54,028 --> 00:38:55,918 learned from partners around the country. 660 00:38:55,928 --> 00:38:59,258 While I was serving as both the executive director in the professional development 661 00:38:59,258 --> 00:39:04,788 space and then the chief of staff for the agency during 2020 and 2021, some really 662 00:39:04,788 --> 00:39:11,118 tumultuous times in DC I had many people across the country that I could call upon 663 00:39:11,428 --> 00:39:13,078 and say, "Hey, are you dealing with this? 664 00:39:13,088 --> 00:39:16,978 How are you looking at this issue?" And to be able to have that national and 665 00:39:16,978 --> 00:39:19,918 international network at your fingertips. 666 00:39:19,948 --> 00:39:22,988 We have a membership directory that folks can go in and search for 667 00:39:22,988 --> 00:39:25,348 other folks and connect with them. 668 00:39:25,348 --> 00:39:27,988 We have a variety of other tools to help with those kind 669 00:39:27,988 --> 00:39:29,638 of partnerships and pairings. 670 00:39:29,688 --> 00:39:31,278 That's incredibly beneficial. 671 00:39:31,278 --> 00:39:35,248 And what I would tell people in particular new professional staff 672 00:39:35,248 --> 00:39:39,328 members, is you have to get out and see how other agencies are doing it. 673 00:39:39,328 --> 00:39:42,248 To your point earlier, you have 18,000 different agencies, that's 674 00:39:42,248 --> 00:39:43,928 18,000 different approaches. 675 00:39:44,338 --> 00:39:47,798 And, the best ideas are often borrowed or stolen being able to 676 00:39:47,798 --> 00:39:51,988 understand how others are doing it, adapt that within your own context. 677 00:39:52,318 --> 00:39:55,428 Don't just sit in a silo and, "Hey, this is the way our agency 678 00:39:55,428 --> 00:39:59,148 does it or has to do it." But get that kind of broader perspective. 679 00:39:59,148 --> 00:40:02,378 It'll help you understand why you do certain things within your 680 00:40:02,378 --> 00:40:04,468 agency or refine those practices. 681 00:40:04,638 --> 00:40:05,058 All right. 682 00:40:05,058 --> 00:40:09,688 And lastly, finish this sentence, professional staff are… 683 00:40:09,818 --> 00:40:14,838 Professional staff members are extraordinarily motivated, dedicated 684 00:40:14,888 --> 00:40:18,608 and care about advancing public safety in the communities they serve. 685 00:40:18,678 --> 00:40:19,498 They're my heroes. 686 00:40:19,838 --> 00:40:21,428 Ben, fantastic. 687 00:40:21,428 --> 00:40:25,868 Thank you again for your time and contribution here today. 688 00:40:25,898 --> 00:40:27,718 This has really been great. 689 00:40:27,948 --> 00:40:32,548 As I mentioned, I will put into the show notes all the information 690 00:40:32,558 --> 00:40:36,158 for the listeners for those that are interested in this association. 691 00:40:36,398 --> 00:40:38,648 So thank you again, and you be safe. 692 00:40:38,748 --> 00:40:39,500 Thanks so much 693 00:40:39,550 --> 00:40:41,890 Thank you for making it to the end of another episode of 694 00:40:41,890 --> 00:40:43,270 Analyst Talk with Jason Elder. 695 00:40:43,330 --> 00:40:46,780 You can show your support by sharing this and other episodes found on 696 00:40:46,780 --> 00:40:46,910 our website@www.leapodcasts.com. 697 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,430 If you have a topic you would like us to cover or have a suggestion 698 00:40:54,430 --> 00:40:56,870 for our next guest, please send us an email at LEApodcasts@gmail.com 699 00:40:59,145 --> 00:41:01,120 Till next time, analysts, keep talking.