Full Transcript for Your Authenticity is Your Superpower, Master The Art of Authentic Leadership with Scot Safon | E46

00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:39.360 I didn't know anyone in the industry, in any of the industries. 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:43.839 But when I got to college, I went undergraduate to the University of Virginia. 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:53.360 I was a history major and economics major there, thinking, uh, I'll probably just go wind up being a lawyer and hopefully work at a media company as a lawyer or something. 00:04:53.519 --> 00:05:01.600 But then, of course, I worked on the radio station and I was the head of news and information because it was the job that nobody wanted. 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:03.920 Everybody wanted to just DJ a music show. 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:06.480 And I was like, I'll be head of news and information. 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:08.800 And I was like, oh my God, this is so much fun. 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:10.399 And I got a kick out of it. 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:13.600 And all along the way, I was never networking. 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:19.600 I was never trying to figure out how to use that to make connections, but I was always learning how to do it. 00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:31.439 I was always learning how to have fun with it, even stuff that didn't turn out well, like packages on the radio that were just nonsensical when I listened to them later after I had made them. 00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:33.439 I was like, oh, I should have made that better. 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:37.040 And but again, just getting my hands dirty and doing it. 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:39.519 And there really weren't repercussions. 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:40.879 It was all voluntary. 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:44.639 So if I did a bad job, I just learned from it. 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:46.319 I didn't get fired from anything. 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:49.920 I just was like, wow, this is a great time, you know, a way to learn it. 00:05:50.079 --> 00:05:53.920 Then I went to graduate business school, not law school. 00:05:54.079 --> 00:06:12.720 I went to graduate business school at Cornell right after undergrad because I had then decided maybe I can get into a marketing department or at a media company, or maybe I could work in advertising, because advertising was media, was a way to get into the media world. 00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:15.759 And I loved ads and I loved advertising. 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:18.160 And so it's like maybe that's how I'll do it. 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:27.680 I'll go into work at an advertising agency and then eventually work in the advertising department of a media company. 00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:30.399 So I that was the extent of the plan. 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:40.160 And the first job out of graduate business school was at an agency, a very traditional advertising agency called Benton and Bowls. 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:49.439 If you ever watched Mad Men, they would talk about Benton and Bowls every once in a while as an agency that was a boring, but they were a boring agency that had a lot of Procter and Gamble accounts. 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:59.199 And so my very first job in my very first thing was I was the assistant account executive on Pepto Bismol, the stomach remedy. 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:02.560 And I was so happy. 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:06.800 I was like, oh my God, they make a lot of ads. 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:09.600 I'm gonna work on a lot of ads. 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:12.959 The ads for Pepto Bismol, but that's awesome. 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:19.680 The very first day I get to work and they're like, hey, we're shooting a commercial down on Cornelia Street, down in the village. 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:20.560 You want to go? 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:24.560 And I'm like, oh my God, I have the best job in the world. 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:31.199 And I went downtown and went to the set of a Pepto Bismol commercial out on the street in the village. 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:34.240 And I was like, I'm the happiest man in the world. 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:38.959 And so I wound up being on Pepto Bismol as an account executive two years. 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:43.519 Then I was on gravy train dog food, then I was on Pampers. 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:47.680 After like four or five years of this, I was like, I love this work. 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:53.600 It's so much fun making commercials and print ads and working in that world of creativity and everything. 00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:57.120 But I really want to get onto a media account if I can. 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:03.439 And I just told everybody if we ever get a media account, please consider me to move on it. 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:04.319 And they were like, why? 00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:05.439 Why would you want to do that? 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:08.319 You're working on these glamorous packaged goods products. 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:09.519 And I was like, no, no, no. 00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:13.920 I really love the media and I'd love to work in the media if at all possible. 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:23.839 And sure enough, another agency got the CBS television account, and somebody I knew had moved over there and said, Hey, you know, we have an opportunity here. 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:32.879 And I went to work on CBS TV, mostly on CBS News and CBS Sports as an account director at another big agency. 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:34.960 And I just loved it. 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:35.840 I just loved it. 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:50.960 And then again, a through line for me, Ilana, all the time was being prepared to just be unapologetically enthusiastic about what I was doing and the chance to do it and the chance to work on it. 00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:56.080 And it wasn't even about making it fabulous or craft or anything. 00:08:56.240 --> 00:08:59.759 It was, oh my God, I'm so happy I get to touch this. 00:08:59.919 --> 00:09:01.679 I'm so happy I get to work on this. 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:13.360 I want all of my teammates, everybody I worked with to also love it just as much and do everything possible to make their jobs fun and easy in the

role that I had as an account person. 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:18.559 Let me stop you here, Scott, for a second, because I think what you just said is really, really important. 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:26.080 And I want the audience to also listen to this because your energy is captivating and that passion of yours is coming through. 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:35.039 So, first of all, when people work with people who are really excited and energized and happy, because I'm sure not everybody was the same, right? 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:37.120 There's definitely some downers. 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:41.440 There's definitely some people that always complain and always victim. 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:42.799 And why me? 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:54.080 So when you work with somebody that is that energized, and that is really one of the things that I'm picking up here, but also the fact that when you wanted something, you made sure people knew. 00:09:54.399 --> 00:10:09.600 And it's about knowing what you want, but also not being ashamed to just say, hey, when you have this opportunity, count me in and raising your hand to this and making sure that again, when those opportunities open up, they're the hidden market. 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:14.000 This is where they decide to think of Scott and not a thousand other people. 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:18.000 And that's where you're starting to create your own luck, basically. 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:19.519 So I love that, Scott. 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:21.360 I greatly appreciate that observation. 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:24.159 And I will add an observation on top of that. 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:32.000 When I would say to people, and I still to this day will always say, Oh, if there's ever an opportunity to do that, I would just love to do that. 00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:39.039 In early part of my career, I would never say, I'm trying to grow my career. 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:41.360 Because it I wasn't thinking of it in that way. 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:44.320 I wasn't thinking, oh, this could be a stepping stone to something else. 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:51.759 It was more about the idea of, oh, I would love to get my hands on that, or oh, I would love to be part of a team that's working on that. 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:52.879 That seems so great. 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:55.679 It came from a totally authentic place. 00:10:55.759 --> 00:10:58.799 There wasn't a lot of strategy. 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:03.200 Maybe it was strategic, but that was never the thing I was talking about. 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:05.039 Like help me grow my career. 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:09.120 It was always like, wow, I would love to be part of the team that does that. 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:18.879 I will say, and over the years, when I have mentored people and helped people along the way, I have responded a lot better to those pitches too. 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:21.440 When somebody says, Oh, I see that you're working on this project. 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:24.559 I've always been a fan of this, or I've always been curious about this. 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:28.799 If there's an opportunity for me to participate in some way, please just let me know. 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:33.759 And I'm just like, okay, that's interesting that you actually care about this work. 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:38.879 And if they do authentically care about it, I think it's that's a great kind of person to add to any team. 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:43.759 And in the world of media and entertainment, every project is super collaborative. 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:50.159 There's very few projects or very few things you do that you just do as a single entity. 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:52.000 You're always working with people. 00:11:52.320 --> 00:12:03.679 So I was working on the CVS television account and loving it, although the agency I was working at did not like it because those accounts are a lot of work and you're working really fast. 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:07.120 You don't get three months to come up with a campaign, you have three days. 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:11.279 And the agencies, big New York agencies, were like, why are we working this way? 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:12.240 This is crazy. 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:14.080 They should have an in-house group. 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:24.240 So I said to anybody who would listen, if you ever create that in-house group and you want somebody to just do this all the time, I would love to be considered for it. 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:28.080 And that led somebody who knew somebody else. 00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:33.759 I guess I did sort of weirdly have connections, but they weren't connections in the way that we think. 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.159 People knew what I wanted to do. 00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:42.879 And somebody said, Oh, Ted Turner has just launched a cable TV network called TNT. 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:44.879 This was like 1991. 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:47.600 And they were like, he just launched TNT. 00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:53.840 And I think they're looking for people who have agency experience like you to work on the marketing of TNT. 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:57.679 And I was like, send me in that direction. 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:08.879 And I remember the woman who was running marketing at TNT at the time, a woman named Sue Kroll, she was the person who was hiring for this job that I was applying for. 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:15.120 She was based in Atlanta, Georgia, because that's where TNT was, and all of the Turner operation was. 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:16.960 And she said, This is what we'll do. 00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:20.960 I want to hear how you talk about creative work and how we talk about it together. 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:26.960 So I'm going to send you a FedEx box, and I don't want you to open it until we get on the phone. 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:29.120 We will get on a telephone call. 00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:32.879 Then I will say, okay, open the FedEx box. 00:13:33.039 -->

00:13:36.879 The creative work will be in there and we will just have a conversation about it. 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:41.120 And I was like, okay, this is an interesting way to do this. 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:44.159 And I get home and my wife and I had just gotten married. 00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:46.639 We were been married for like eight months at that point. 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:50.080 And she also potentially had a job opportunity in Atlanta. 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:51.440 So that was lucky. 00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:54.159 She hands me two large FedEx boxes. 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:56.240 She says, You got these two FedEx boxes. 00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:59.120 I'm like, oh my God, I was expecting one small box. 00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:00.399 This is a lot of work. 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:04.879 So I get on the phone with Sue and I was like, okay, I'm ready to open up the box. 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:06.879 And she said, Oh, you didn't open it yet. 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:09.039 I was like, no, you told me not to open it. 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:10.000 Let's do this. 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:10.960 Let's do this. 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:14.240 So she told me to open the first box and I poured out. 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:26.399 It must have been 25, 30 pieces of creative print ads, folders, collateral material, all sorts of stuff for like 20 different movies that they had been working on. 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:29.679 And I was like, all right, I'm putting them together in groups. 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:31.759 What movie do we want to talk about first? 00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:34.320 I think she responded to that energy too. 00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:38.879 But I was genuinely enthusiastic through that conversation. 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:42.080 After it was over, it was like a two and a half hour call. 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:44.320 And my wife was like, Well, how did it go? 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:44.960 How did it go? 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:49.279 I said, you know, I want this job so badly, I would do it for free. 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:51.679 And she's like, Well, don't tell them that. 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:53.519 But I was like, no, no, no. 00:14:53.840 --> 00:15:04.000 I would love to spend my days talking about television marketing like this and talking with people like Sue Kroll, who was so brilliant and so interesting. 00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:06.879 And they did offer me the job and I took it. 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:11.200 We did move to Atlanta, and that job was better than a dream job. 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:12.639 A great job. 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:22.080 I went running marketing on the entertainment side, and then ultimately marketing all of TNT ultimately for 11 years, which was a long time. 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:23.600 It is a long time. 00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:29.440 But first of all, the reason this came about is because we all have a brand. 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:32.960 We might not talk about it, but we have a brand. 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:38.480 The brand is what people think about you when you're not in the room because that's when the opportunities open up, right? 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:48.480 So there's a reason why that came about, and you were also very specific about being top of mind for the right thing for what you want to be known for. 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:52.159 So without knowing, you've been very, very strategic about it, right? 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:53.600 So that came about. 00:15:53.840 --> 00:16:02.879 But then you also manage to also climb up the ladder there and take on more and more responsibility and do more and more, right? 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:14.480 Which I think a lot of our listeners also kind of wondering well, even if I land this thing, how do I fast track to bigger responsibilities, bigger status, bigger impact? 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:17.519 How do I even do that, Scott? 00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:24.159 I think the how you do this is a little bit dependent on who you are and the kind of organization that you're in. 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:28.559 But I will tell you how it has worked pretty consistently for me. 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:38.240 Showing up as a person who wants something to be great, but it's not ever about me, because it's genuinely not about me. 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:53.279 I get a bigger kick out of the fact that a whole group of people did something together that was successful, and I'm pretty flexible about what success looks like because not everything is an undeniable success on every single front. 00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:57.919 Sometimes things are successful because you've learned a lot of stuff from them and they weren't really successful. 00:16:58.159 --> 00:17:10.000 But somebody who shows up who doesn't get discouraged, doesn't go negative, doesn't care that much about what I do versus what anybody else is doing, I get a kick out of people. 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:10.960 I really do. 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:17.119 I really enjoy other people, and I really enjoy other people having a good time. 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:25.599 If they're doing work that they care about and they're getting a kick out of the project, like I'm getting a kick out of the project, to me, that is great. 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:38.319 And I do feel like, in terms of the higher ups, maybe at Turner, we're like, good, we can give him more responsibility because he really wants the whole group to succeed and he likes this. 00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:40.640 He gets a kick out of his job. 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:59.519 And that kind of person, I think that's a good way to be successful in if you are happen to be in a job that you do get a kick out of in an organization that values that, that doesn't tend to reward people who are extra cynical or more cutthroat or good at creative tension or anything. 00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:08.480 I've never really loved that aspect of like some people do strategize around that, saying, oh, we we create a lot of good creative

tension and everything. 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:10.880 It's like that really leads to better work. 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:13.680 I mean, that leads to more success. 00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:15.119 I don't think it does. 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:16.000 I really don't. 00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:19.200 And it has never in organizations that I've worked in. 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:32.240 So being an enthusiast and somebody who is enthusiastic for other people's successes, and again, I'm not saying this in a Pollyanna way or a way that, oh, it's for the good of other people. 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:34.160 No, it's more fun. 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:40.559 It is definitely more fun if they're all having fun and they're all learning from it. 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:49.359 And yes, there are things, especially in entertainment, which is a very emotional business, and things you do that just don't work and everything. 00:18:49.519 --> 00:19:05.440 So how you deal with failure, how you gather people together to talk about failure, can still be an enthusiastic discussion, can still be something that is affirmative, that can still be something that leaves people excited to take on the next challenge. 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:07.599 And that was also a part of it, too. 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:32.640 It's like I learned this over time, though, too, that together, if you're in a team-oriented business or team-oriented kind of work, getting the team comfortable talking with each other, even if they're very different from each other, just comfortable being vulnerable with each other, comfortable being encouraging to each other, comfortable sharing partial criticism too, if that's necessary. 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:43.279 But that comfort level of ease of being in the presence of other people was very important to success in the companies that I've been in when I was in corporate America. 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:51.759 Scott, do you have an example of a project or something that you went into and didn't have the success that you were hoping? 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:54.799 At TNT, we were launching original movies. 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:57.200 We were launching them like once a month. 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:08.319 So we had big campaigns going on constantly, and there were movies that we were making, we were doing a series of films that were based on theater productions, and they were the film versions of theater productions. 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:15.920 So they were very, very, very high-end movies with very respected people in front of the camera, behind the camera. 00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:21.200 And they were trickier in terms of getting an audience because they weren't traditional crowd pleasers. 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:24.559 When we did a Tom Selleck Western, we'd get a big number. 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:29.599 We would do a Bible movie, a big number, a Civil War drama, a big number. 00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:37.759 But if we're doing the film version of Arthur Miller's The American Clock, it's going to be a smaller number and everything. 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:55.680 And I think that one of the things that happened with that was that I had to learn how to balance my always being enthusiastic and always being optimistic and always being inclined to say everything's successful on some level with the realities of business. 00:20:55.920 --> 00:21:02.000 We did a beautiful job crafting those movies, but they were not successful with our business model. 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:04.400 So we couldn't do them anymore. 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:17.759 And so learning how to recognize that, come to terms with that, and maybe not, you know, agree as part of the executive leadership team that we weren't going to make movies like that anymore was really challenging. 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:23.279 Now, the optimist to me was to be like, well, maybe there's a version of these movies that could be successful. 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:24.880 So we should never give up. 00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:31.359 And I'd hate to think that those movies were not worth doing because I definitely think they were worth doing. 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:44.319 But I had a role at TNT because I was such a cheerleader for the company and for the brand and for every one of those movies that I couldn't be the person who also was pretending everything was successful. 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:50.720 And I had to learn how to talk about business realities and raise everybody's business acumen a little bit. 00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:59.759 And sometimes in a creative job or in a creative company, having to be the person who makes everybody aware of the business side of it and just basically. 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:03.680 Improving everybody's business acumen is a very tough job. 00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:07.440 And I realized that I had to become good at that. 00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:22.799 And later on, we could jump forward into my CNN experiences because then I later, as I grew within the organization and had more responsibility, sometimes those things are bigger than a movie didn't work. 00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:29.039 And sometimes a television series isn't working, and everybody, the television series has to get canceled. 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:33.279 And that's 30 people that you're letting go. 00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:40.640 And you're suddenly dealing with bigger responsibilities that have decidedly, you know, negative results. 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:57.759 And you still want to be the optimist and get people excited about the next opportunity, the next challenge, and just learning how to be both those things, a realistic business person and a cheerleader, person who can rally people too. 00:22:57.920 --> 00:22:59.119 I think this is an issue. 00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:18.799 I'm not an entrepreneur and I've never founded a company, but I've heard this from entrepreneurs too, that they're trying to balance building the enthusiasm of their employees, but also of their investors

and of the press at the same time, but also sometimes dealing with the harsh realities of how business plays out. 00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:19.359 Right. 00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:41.440 And to me, what you just said is so, so, so fundamental because you keep needing to balance between, yes, the cheerleader that can create the enthusiasm and the vision and oh my God, and the mission and let's go and do this together, but also have this extreme ownership of looking in the mirror and saying, this is not working. 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:44.000 And this is what we need to do right now. 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:45.839 We need to change course. 00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:50.880 And you still need to be that strong leader that needs to change the course. 00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:53.200 But also every conversation is like a mirror. 00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:59.359 Like if you're collapsing inside and you're gonna show that to everybody, you're gonna freak everybody out. 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:08.160 So there's also a little bit of how do I navigate that and not freak everybody out to run away, but also understand that that's okay. 00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:09.680 It's part of the game. 00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:12.880 We just didn't work, and we're gonna continue anyway, Scott. 00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:14.400 That's a great observation. 00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:19.839 And as you climb in the organization, the people you have to think about, your audience for that. 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:22.000 First of all, people have to trust you. 00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:27.359 Your employees have to trust that you're can be the cheerleader and a steward of the business. 00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:29.680 Your bosses have to trust you too. 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:36.000 The other colleagues that you have, let's say the other C-suite people or the other have to do that too. 00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:46.880 So as you rise within an organization, it becomes your obligation to being that wise and realistic and enthusiastic boss to your team. 00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:49.839 You have to do that in every direction. 00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:58.000 And everybody's criteria about what's a trustworthy steward of the business is different based on what they're looking at. 00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:10.559 And that's, I think, one of the toughest things about rising in an organization, that you suddenly're managing more people, which, okay, you're realizing how important it is to manage people and develop them. 00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:18.240 But then you're being entrusted with huge resources by your colleagues and your boss, and your boss is. 00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:32.720 And there are big implications for the success of the company by how you do, not just what you do, but how you communicate it, how you build trust with everybody that you've got your hands on the controls, you know what you're doing and everything. 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:41.119 And I think that I probably had more struggles as an executive with that part of it than how I managed. 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:50.079 Managing downward or laterally, whatever, I was, I felt very confident in learning and growing and doing the right thing in that way. 00:25:50.319 --> 00:26:05.519 I do think that my natural optimism and my natural inclination to look at things in a positive way, I think there were probably people who were colleagues or bosses who were like, well, he's not being realistic, or maybe he's not as serious, maybe he's not that serious. 00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:10.400 And so I had to recalibrate that a little bit, certainly at CNN. 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:20.960 And then I was the chief marketing officer for CNN for eight years from 2002 to 2010, a pretty long time in CMO age. 00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:31.920 And then three years after that, from 2010 to 2013, I was the general manager of the HLN network, the former headline news network HLN. 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:35.680 And that was my first job that was not a marketing job. 00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:37.839 I was running the network. 00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:47.359 And that required the enthusiastic cheerleader was part of that executive persona, but it couldn't be most of it. 00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:48.799 It needed to be a little different. 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:53.279 I had to take a harder look at resources, a harder look at things going forward or not. 00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:58.720 I relied on the marketing people to be always being the optimists and always being, this is going to be great. 00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:01.440 And I had to be the person saying, well, you know what? 00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:02.799 I don't think it's going to be that great. 00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:03.920 So we can't do it. 00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:06.480 And that was an evolution for me too. 00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:07.920 And that's exceptional. 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:11.519 So, first of all, I think we're not really taught how to be leaders. 00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:21.200 And me and you discussed it just a little bit before we started the episode, because I really think that for me it was a lot of it scraping knees, almost like a trial and error a little bit. 00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:27.759 There's some great leadership books around how you find yourself with like five types of leadership, right? 00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:33.839 Leadership from the front, the basic like, okay, this is where we're going, leadership from the back, which is like the cheerleader, right? 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:34.799 Leadership from the side. 00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:44.400 Like how do you actually help your board or your C level, whatever, like really lead together, leadership within, leadership from the field, et cetera, which is kind of the more spontaneous thing. 00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:47.839 But all of it, you know, you eventually need to lead yourself, which is really nice. 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:55.920 But I wish somebody taught me a little, at least a little bit, you know, before I got all this

responsibility to try on my own. 00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:01.599 But so to me, that's really, really, really interesting how you manage to climb all the way. 00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:07.920 And marketing, heading marketing is very different than heading operations and being in charge of everything. 00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:12.400 What would you say is some of the biggest learning from that shift? 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:18.079 So I shifted into this really running the operations job for three years, and I went back to marketing. 00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:19.759 I didn't enjoy that other job. 00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:26.160 I'm glad I had the opportunity to do it because running HLN for those three years was a surprising amount of fun. 00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:31.759 And I got to make lots of programming decisions and decide on what we were going to develop as programs and stuff. 00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:34.559 And I had awesome people working for me. 00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:37.839 And we were a little like a sort of side business for CNN. 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:39.119 So we had a lot of freedom. 00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:41.440 It was really lovely and really great. 00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:43.359 But I really like marketing. 00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:49.039 I really like figuring out how we talk about what we're doing in ways that excite people. 00:28:49.279 --> 00:29:09.119 And I've always, and again, after I left out, I had more marketing jobs and continue as a consultant in this world about helping people figure out how to get other people excited about things they're going to do, whether it's changes they're going to make in their company or new products they're going to introduce or new directions they're going to take their brands. 00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:13.440 I like helping them find the words in any shape, way, shape, or form. 00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:14.640 So I like that. 00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:41.039 The great learning for me, I guess, from the taking those three years out and taking on a head of a network job was again, not knowing what I didn't like as much, but also realizing that there were things that I could do, that there were skills that I got as a marketer that could be useful in many other ways and could be useful in a lot of other circumstances. 00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:45.279 That wasn't just about when we're doing a marketing campaign. 00:29:45.599 --> 00:30:07.519 And that helped me as a consultant later because I was like, wait, when I had an opportunity to do projects with this wonderful agency called Civic Entertainment, and they had gotten the Ford Motor Company account, and they brought me in to help them figure out some strategies for Ford as Ford expanded the scope of their businesses. 00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:10.079 At first, I was like, I'm not sure I can do this. 00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:12.720 I don't know the automotive industry at all. 00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:28.400 And they're like, well, there's plenty of people who know the automotive industry who work at Ford and who work here at Civic on Ford, but you understand communications and you understand the news industry too, and you understand storytelling. 00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:29.519 So bring all that. 00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:43.759 And I could say, wow, all of these things that I like and care about, not only are they relevant to these other businesses, they're just, if not more, exciting in those other businesses because not everybody is a communications person. 00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:48.160 And when you work at a media company, everybody is a communications person. 00:30:48.319 --> 00:31:01.200 They're all good at it and they all are smart and they're all this the Ford people or the civic people and the Ford people, they're all smart and they have many different types of skills, but not everybody's a communications person. 00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:07.839 So you've really got to bring something to the table that was kind of unique and a unique expertise. 00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:14.640 And because I wasn't steeped in automotives, my take on it was a little bit on the outside too. 00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:16.880 It's like, well, why would we say it this way? 00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:18.079 I know cars enough. 00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:19.359 I've always been a car owner. 00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:23.039 My family is deep in cars and professionally too, but I'm not. 00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:26.079 And I was like, but I like words. 00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:27.839 And these were words. 00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:35.119 And again, they appreciated my enthusiasm that I really wanted to help figure this out and think about it. 00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:38.640 And that's, I did a big project last year with the Grand Ole Opry. 00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:40.960 I don't know country music at all. 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:44.000 I absolutely loved working on this project. 00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:48.720 It was an extraordinary eight-month project that I just loved every second of it. 00:31:48.880 --> 00:32:00.000 But again, I learned, I think, through the three years of not being a marketing person that I wanted to go back into a communications job or communications projects. 00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:09.279 But also, there was a lot that was relevant about what a communications person does that can really help move things along in other parts of business. 00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:18.640 And the finding the right words, CFOs need to do that, CIOs need to do that, board of director members need to do that. 00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:19.759 It's very hard. 00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:22.400 People are uncomfortable writing. 00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:29.119 They're uncomfortable, even writing an email, finding the words for somebody like me is a joy. 00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:33.039 But for somebody else, it's like that's the thing they want to do the least. 00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:35.119 And I love that you said that to me. 00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:50.000 And first of all, the reason why you've

been so successful at helping companies find their words and helping business leaders and their brands, and whether it's Ford or Hallmark or HBO or Showtime, I mean, these are like incredible brands. 00:32:50.240 --> 00:33:08.319 And I do believe that your talent in communication, but also your understanding of what it's like to run an organization, that understanding and that tie into the importance of the words and to be very strategic with the words, that is probably part of that zone of genius. 00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:13.599 So I do see how all of this is coming together and why this is so powerful. 00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:18.960 But I do want to ask you something, because if I'm listening to this story as a listener, right? 00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:25.759 I hear movies, I hear sports, I hear music, I hear film, I hear news, I hear automotive. 00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:30.319 How is marketing similar or different between industries and companies? 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:35.279 I think you touched it, but I would love to understand more because everybody needs marketing these days. 00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:37.119 Without marketing, you don't exist. 00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:41.039 How is it similar or how do you jump between all these industries? 00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:42.799 Talk to us a little more about that. 00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:52.240 Well, I think that there is a need for people to explain themselves and explain what they want to do, explain why they want to do it. 00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:59.440 And there's always in any industry a need to leave people with a sense of anticipation. 00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:08.639 Like that if they heard something from you, whether you're a leader or a colleague or a customer, whatever, you want to leave them going, I wonder what's next. 00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:09.840 I wonder what happens next. 00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:13.840 Now that's an instinct from the media world, but it's true anywhere. 00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:20.719 You're building in marketing, in any industry, you're building a relationship between a business and a customer. 00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:30.079 And you want that relationship to be ongoing all the time and welcomed always and excitedly embraced all the time. 00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:44.880 So when you care so much about what the words are and where the words are, that's the thing, is that I feel like one of the reasons why I've been able to work in a lot of different types of industries on this is somebody will say, Can you help me with a press release? 00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:46.880 We're not going to talk about a press release yet. 00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:49.199 Let's talk about what it is you want to do. 00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:50.400 What's the story here? 00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:51.360 What's the bigger story? 00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:52.559 Why is this a good thing? 00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:53.599 Let's get the whole thing. 00:34:53.679 --> 00:35:00.880 And it's like, yeah, maybe one of the five or six things you should do in this communications plan is a press release. 00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:05.440 But press releases today aren't what press releases were 20 years ago. 00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:11.039 Like a press release will be fine because somebody will need it, because it needs to go somewhere as a reference point. 00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:11.760 But that's not it. 00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:13.280 What's your email gonna be? 00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:17.360 What's your email gonna say, even if you're just linking to the press release? 00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:18.480 They'll read the email. 00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:20.960 They won't read the release, but they'll read the email. 00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:23.119 So what do you want to say to your employees? 00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:24.639 What do you want to say to your customers? 00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:29.119 What do you want to say to your competitors, even indirectly? 00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.239 What do you want to say to influencers who are following you? 00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:43.920 And when anything goes wrong in the world, like this outage that we're seeing right now with CrowdStrike, I go right to all the different people who have to make decisions about communications. 00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:54.000 I mean, if I see it in politics too, I'm fascinated by all of the decisions you have to make in politics to leave people with a certain feeling. 00:35:54.320 --> 00:36:06.800 And the first thing I'm likely to say to a colleague, a friend, an employee, a family member, or a consulting customer is let's not talk about what we're gonna create. 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:11.360 Let's talk about why, let's talk about what we're hoping to leave people with. 00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:17.840 And then the answer to this might be an email, it might be a TikTok video, it might be five fit. 00:36:18.159 --> 00:36:19.760 It could, who knows what it's gonna be. 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:23.760 But we're gonna really think about what you want to get across here. 00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:26.000 And sometimes that's intimidating. 00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:28.239 They go, Oh no, I just want to do a press release. 00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:30.719 And I'm like, we'll do the press release. 00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:37.360 But I want you to have a big success with this, and it's not gonna come from the press release and things like that. 00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:39.599 But that you know that as a marketing person. 00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:42.719 Because the other thing you asked a little bit about this too. 00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:55.760 Over the years, one way to have success in marketing is to be very, very, very excited and enthusiastic about how the media landscape is changing. 00:36:56.079 --> 00:37:00.480 We do not look at messages in the same way anymore. 00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:07.199 If I say to my kids, my younger daughter, I would say to her all the time, is there an ad campaign out there that you like? 00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:09.119 And she

looks at me like I'm crazy. 00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:11.119 What do I mean by an ad campaign? 00:37:11.360 --> 00:37:14.400 And then, is there a commercial that you've seen that you like? 00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:17.039 And she'll say, Oh, yeah, I really like such and such. 00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:18.320 Or have you seen it? 00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:22.559 She's not seeing it on television because she's not watching linear television. 00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:31.199 She is sometimes being exposed to commercials on some of the streaming services, if there's a commercial, like maybe on Love Island or something like that, she'll see that. 00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:37.199 But she's really not seeing the volume of advertising that I would have seen when I was her age. 00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:47.760 She's seeing it because if she finds a commercial that she likes, somebody has sent it to her and really has just sent her a link pretty much to that commercial on YouTube. 00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:52.719 And I was like, what prompted what would make somebody send you a commercial to watch? 00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:58.239 Oh, if a music is really good, or if it made us laugh or it made us cry. 00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:09.679 All the criteria are not different because maybe that would have mattered too back in the day because you would have been exposed to certain campaigns might impact you a little more because of those things. 00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:12.239 But nowadays, that's like the price of entry. 00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:20.639 You have to push a button so much that somebody wants to share it a YouTube link of it to somebody else. 00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:22.320 This is for that generation. 00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:27.440 And I think there are a lot of marketers who sit there and go, forget it. 00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:28.320 It's done. 00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:29.360 This is terrible. 00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:30.800 The whole world has collapsed. 00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:33.119 And I'm like, this is interesting. 00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:38.960 Like how fascinating is this that we get to use all of the stuff. 00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:50.079 And your job isn't to just blast out ads, your job is to really connect and connect so much with somebody that they feel like they want to use it to connect with somebody else. 00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:51.840 What a win that is. 00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:59.840 And the cost per impact would be higher, but be worth it because you really maybe made a real connection. 00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:12.000 And to me, that change is actually fascinating because I think, first of all, the way for us to control the narrative has never been easier as a brand. 00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:15.119 I can decide what I want people to see. 00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:17.119 You know, like how easy is that? 00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:24.000 Instead of try to make it eventually to TV or to the news, like, oh my God, that was an uphill battle. 00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:28.400 Now I can just put a few, I don't know, movies on TikTok or Instagram. 00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:29.199 And guess what? 00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:30.800 I'm already controlling the narrative. 00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:34.320 There's never been easier to reinvent and leap. 00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:39.199 It's never been easier for brands to conquer market, but there's a lot of noise in the system. 00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:40.559 So you're absolutely right. 00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:42.800 You need to learn how to evoke emotions. 00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:44.480 You said words are feelings. 00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:48.239 I mean, it's just beautiful because you need to create those feelings. 00:39:48.400 --> 00:39:55.119 Otherwise, again, you're part of a big, big people's pile of people trying to do the same thing, right? 00:39:55.440 --> 00:40:03.039 So to me, these are fascinating times, but if you're not leveraging it, you're definitely losing relevance at a speed that I've never seen before. 00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:15.280 I was talking to an MBA program, a bunch of marketers, and they were like, well, what's something that's fundamentally the same from when you first started in marketing versus now? 00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:26.960 And I thought one of the things that's interesting is my first job in marketing, when I was working on Pepto Bismol, if you asked anybody at Procter and Gamble, you asked anybody at the agency I was working at, what is the holy grail? 00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:31.199 What is the greatest thing that could, what's the best advertising period? 00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:33.440 They said, oh, word of mouth advertising. 00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:41.920 Word of mouth is the best because that's somebody telling somebody they care about to do something, and it's an endorsement from a person you trust and love. 00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:43.039 That would be the best. 00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:49.920 And there was that famous commercial, the hair care commercial, she'll tell two friends and she'll tell two friends and on and on and on. 00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:53.199 So that has always been the thing. 00:40:53.360 --> 00:41:07.440 The difference is that now you like something enough to post on Facebook about it or Instagram about it or LinkedIn about it, you're telling thousands of people all at once, and you're giving them a link to it. 00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:11.840 And you're not just telling them about it, you're really introducing them to it. 00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:23.440 And so the power of every individual as a marketer or as an advocate or as a spokesperson for a product that they like is extraordinary. 00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:31.280 I'm sure it's scary too, because a bad impression also goes through the culture really fast, also. 00:41:31.760 --> 00:41:34.559 And then you have to figure out how to counter the bad impression. 00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:41.920 But I do think that this means that marketers, somebody said, well, does this mean that marketers are less relevant right now?

00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:44.960 It's like, no, I think they're more relevant right now. 00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:50.559 And maybe more people should be paying attention to it and thinking about it. 00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:55.280 But definitely it's a very, very important function right now for business. 00:41:55.840 --> 00:42:00.400 I think without it, businesses die at the speed that we've never seen before. 00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:09.119 I think the one difference is that because everybody's on social media, they get the unrealistic expectations that everybody is a marketer. 00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:18.159 Now, there's a little bit of a difference between posting on Facebook and actually knowing how to create a hook, how to evoke emotions, how to get people to share. 00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:22.159 I have to say that we stumbled upon something that you just shared. 00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:27.760 We did a big live retreat a few months ago and everybody was sharing about it on LinkedIn. 00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:35.039 And I don't know if I even realized that this will be one of our biggest marketing campaigns ever. 00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:40.960 It wasn't even in my head that I can actually leverage it as a marketing tool. 00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:43.679 I just wanted to give value to my clients, you know. 00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:52.159 So I think there's a lot in terms of when you're not a marketer, it does cost you a lot because you really are not leveraging it to the best extent. 00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:54.480 We're leaning a lot on marketing for sure. 00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:56.320 But what would you say, Scott? 00:42:56.639 --> 00:43:03.360 Maybe one thing that people don't necessarily know about you that you think has built you to the person that you are now. 00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:04.800 Is there something? 00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:06.079 I will say this. 00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:07.840 I am pretty much an open book. 00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:11.920 So I don't know if there's anything that people don't know about me. 00:43:12.159 --> 00:43:18.239 But I would say that there is something about me that I think surprises people when they when I share this. 00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:30.480 And that is I had a period in my career when I got to TNT where I don't know why this happened, but I would get panic attacks if I had to present. 00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:34.320 So if I had to do a presentation, I would get panic attacks. 00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:39.679 And I would be in front of audiences and just hyperventilate. 00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:41.119 I would lose my place. 00:43:41.360 --> 00:43:45.599 I had like one of those out-of-body experiences, like, what is going on with me? 00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:51.039 And I was lucky enough, I guess, that the first time it happened, it was a disaster. 00:43:51.199 --> 00:43:53.679 And I just I went and apologized to my boss. 00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:55.199 I was like, I don't know what happened to me. 00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:57.360 I just,

and they were like, Don't worry about it. 00:43:57.440 --> 00:43:58.159 It's not a big deal. 00:43:58.239 --> 00:43:59.199 It happens to everybody. 00:43:59.280 --> 00:43:59.760 I never. 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:01.199 Saw it happen to anybody. 00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:04.320 The second time it happened, it happened like pretty much right after that. 00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:10.320 I was talking to a group, I was presenting a marketing plan to a group of people, and it happened again. 00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:16.639 And for some reason, somebody in that audience of 30 raised their hand and said, Scott, you mentioned something at the top of this. 00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:19.599 Could you just repeat it because I just didn't quite hear it? 00:44:19.840 --> 00:44:21.599 And that snapped me. 00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:26.079 Somebody asked me a question, snapped me back into that mode. 00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:30.639 And so I went and I was fine for the rest of it. 00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:42.880 And so after that, I would always have somebody in the audience, even if I was talking to like a thousand people, I would be like, you interrupt me and ask me a question if you see me start, like I will tip it off. 00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:47.920 If I start to shake or whatever, raise your hand and say, excuse me, whatever. 00:44:48.079 --> 00:44:50.800 I don't care what the question is, ask me the question. 00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:52.320 And that's what did it. 00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:53.519 That's what would do it. 00:44:53.679 --> 00:44:56.559 And I was like, what's physically like, what is wrong with me? 00:44:56.639 --> 00:45:06.320 And then anything I read about this, anything I heard about it just said, well, you have a problem like this, you have to always say yes to any public speaking thing ever. 00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:09.119 Like you have to do this all the time. 00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:18.400 And what I learned to do in these, and not in a conversation, I'm very comfortable with a conversation, especially you're a great conversationalist, so that's never going to be a problem. 00:45:18.719 --> 00:45:33.599 But if I'm talking alone, if I'm just presenting, I will build in as my case of emergency break glass, it is I will suddenly, apropos of nothing, just ask the audience a question. 00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:40.639 I will it and sometimes I have no idea why I'm asking them the question, but I have to get out of this loop. 00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:45.119 And I would be like, um, just how many of you are from Long Island? 00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:48.239 You know, and people will answer that question. 00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:55.039 And then later, like every once in a while, somebody will say, just out of curiosity, you asked about that early on in the presentation. 00:45:55.199 --> 00:45:56.800 Was that for a specific reason? 00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:57.760 Then I'll tell them. 00:45:57.920 --> 00:45:59.840 I was like, Yeah, I was having a panic attack. 00:45:59.920 --> 00:46:01.599 It's the only way to get me out of it. 00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:09.840 So when I tell people that, and I'm very comfortable sharing things like that, they're always surprised. 00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:11.760 They're always like, You're such a comfortable presenter. 00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:12.800 You love presenting. 00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:16.000 You know, it's like, I don't know why I have this problem. 00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:19.119 It doesn't always happen anymore, but it sometimes still does happen. 00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:20.639 I just have to build in. 00:46:20.719 --> 00:46:27.199 Oh, and the other thing, there is one other thing about me, but a lot of people know this because I'm also very forthcoming, but I'm hearing impaired. 00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:31.440 Without my hearing device, which is back here, I'm clinically deaf. 00:46:31.599 --> 00:46:36.639 That was progressive over my career, like actually as over my adult life. 00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:41.760 So when I was at TNT, like in the 90s, it started to get bad. 00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:46.239 And I didn't think I needed a hearing aid, but I was missing a lot. 00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:54.960 And then by the like around 2000, right before I went to CNN, I got a hearing device, hearing aids, and that helped me, but it got progressively worse. 00:46:55.119 --> 00:47:01.599 So this device is a sound processor that uses bone conductive hearing that works better than my hearing aids. 00:47:01.760 --> 00:47:08.079 But that, like living in the world of having having an impairment like that, that's an invisible one to a lot of people. 00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:13.360 I mean, if you saw the device, you would say, oh, he obviously has maybe they would think it's a cochlear implant or something. 00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:14.719 It's not, it's something else. 00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:19.840 But those invisible impairments, they teach you a lot. 00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:20.880 They really do. 00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:26.800 And my only way of dealing with it has been fully transparent about it. 00:47:27.039 --> 00:47:29.039 Very, very, very transparent. 00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:31.440 And I have to be comfortable about it. 00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:39.360 And sometimes it prompts all sorts of interesting things because people will come up to me later and say, actually, I have a hearing impairment, but I've been embarrassed about it or whatever. 00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:40.480 I'm like, why? 00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:41.760 Like, let's talk. 00:47:41.920 --> 00:47:43.840 But sometimes people know that. 00:47:44.079 --> 00:47:47.119 They know that I struggled with that a little bit, but that's it. 00:47:47.599 --> 00:47:50.159 Thank you for sharing these incredible stories. 00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:54.000 I think, first of all, a lot of people are really scared of public speaking. 00:47:54.159 --> 00:48:05.280 So I think just standing there and saying it, like for me initially to speak a whole lecture in English was

freaking me out because that's not my first language. 00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:11.360 And I was just like, I don't even know if I'm, you know, my third grade language, you know, we'll do it. 00:48:11.440 --> 00:48:14.480 You know, and that that was really, really scary moment. 00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:28.239 But also, despite that, despite the panic, despite the hearing, you continue when most people will hold themselves back and will say, you know what, I have enough excuses to stop. 00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:33.119 And you you look at it in the mirror and you just continue going. 00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:35.360 What motivates you, Scott? 00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:39.760 How are you able to just put it to the side and continue? 00:48:39.920 --> 00:48:49.679 I mean, you're in the freaking media company, you know, like that's like, you know, you would think, you know, computers, you know, if you want to engineer and write code, you know, that is fine. 00:48:49.840 --> 00:48:54.000 But tell me, how did you continue, Scott? 00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:56.000 It definitely scared me. 00:48:56.079 --> 00:49:04.239 And when I was first addressing this issue, because it really, the panic attacks just sort of started out of, I don't even know what prompted it in the first place. 00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:06.880 I wish I, I wish I could get in touch with that. 00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:18.400 But I think honestly, it was a one time in my life where I was like, I love this job so much, I love this world so much, and presenting is always going to be a part of this. 00:49:18.559 --> 00:49:19.840 I can't not do this. 00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:26.559 So I just have to power through this and I have to make it work. 00:49:26.719 --> 00:49:33.119 And I don't know, like maybe it was the right time that I had that, you know, it was in my early 30s. 00:49:33.280 --> 00:49:38.880 I was in the early days of a job that I thought was the greatest gift anyone had given me. 00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:43.920 And I didn't want to not do it, and I didn't want to try to do it in a compromised way. 00:49:44.079 --> 00:49:45.199 That was the other thing as well. 00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:49.679 I could, I could always not say yes to speaking engagements. 00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:54.960 I could always say, you know, I could have like tried to avoid them because lots of this is what a lot of people do. 00:49:55.119 --> 00:49:57.679 They don't like public speaking, so they avoid it. 00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:01.679 And I'm like, okay, I get it, but I don't. 00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:05.599 I, somebody, a professor says, Will you come and talk to my class? 00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:08.079 That's a panic attack kind of thing for me. 00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:08.960 I will go. 00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:10.159 I would just do it. 00:50:10.320 --> 00:50:14.880 I will just do it, even though I go into it going, I might have one of those. 00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:22.239 I'm gonna ask them all a question that will make no sense, but I'll get through it and we're gonna have a good time. 00:50:23.519 --> 00:50:25.920 Absolutely, absolutely love this, Scott. 00:50:26.079 --> 00:50:36.800 So so tell me, one of the things that we always ask kind of at the end, now that you've seen where you are right now, and what would be an advice to your younger self? 00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:53.039 Early on in my career, when I was trying to make connections in the media to hope, like hope the connections would help me, I managed to convince a few people who were in the movie and TV industry to have like breakfast with me while I was in New York when I was working at the ad agencies. 00:50:53.119 --> 00:51:00.559 And what I heard consistently from the three or four people who did it was they were very nice and generous with their time and I appreciated it. 00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:05.280 But they always said to me, I don't think that industry, the media industry, is right for you. 00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:06.719 And I would be like, Why? 00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:08.079 I know a lot about it. 00:51:08.159 --> 00:51:09.599 I follow it really closely. 00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:10.960 I would love to work on it. 00:51:11.119 --> 00:51:12.800 They're like, you're too nice. 00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:18.000 Like, you have to be a tougher guy, you have to be harder edge, you're too nice, you would hate it. 00:51:18.079 --> 00:51:19.039 They would chew you up. 00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:21.679 And I heard that like consistently. 00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:30.079 And so what I would go, and it was always in the back of my head, like, maybe I have to be more of a jerk, or maybe I have to have a thicker skin or whatever. 00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:34.880 But then if I was giving myself advice now, I'd be like, it's okay. 00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:36.159 It's okay. 00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:45.840 You be the enthusiastic person, you be the person who loves words and who loves getting, you know, loves rolling up your sleeves and working with everybody else. 00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:48.159 You're not trying for a corner office. 00:51:48.320 --> 00:51:53.920 Even when I had a corner office job, I never took the corner office because not because I don't think it's right to do. 00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:56.400 It's like I didn't want to be away from the action. 00:51:56.719 --> 00:52:03.840 So I would encourage myself to don't worry about the fact that you don't have that hard edge. 00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:05.840 That's gonna be okay for you. 00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:07.119 Oh, I love that. 00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:15.920 Like you're gonna find your flavor that is the right one for Scott, and you're gonna make it successful because you're just not going to give up because this is your passion. 00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:18.719 Well, and also if it if it makes you happy. 00:52:18.880 --> 00:52:27.440 I mean, if you're happy in what you're doing, everybody laughs when I tell the story about my first day of work at Pepto Bismol, and I'm so excited. 00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:31.920 They're like, you went to an ad agency to work in the media and you got on Pepto Bismol. 00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:33.840 I was like, we were making ads. 00:52:35.039 --> 00:52:39.119 So they're like, okay, well, that kind of says it all. 00:52:40.320 --> 00:52:41.760 I think it does set it all. 00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:48.320 And I I was cracking up here, but seriously, Scott, this was so, so, so exceptional. 00:52:48.639 --> 00:52:56.719 Anyone listening, if you need help with words and crafting kind of how do you say things, this is your guy. 00:52:56.800 --> 00:52:58.480 Like, this is incredible, Scott. 00:52:58.719 --> 00:53:00.320 Yeah, I always like to meet people too. 00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:03.920 I'm always I'm always interested in in what they're up to and what they're doing. 00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:05.920 And congratulations on Leap Academy. 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:13.119 I think the podcasts have been just awesome, and I think your mission is fantastic, and I'm very excited that you pursue it this way. 00:53:13.440 --> 00:53:15.199 Thank you so much, guys.