Full Transcript for Going With Your Gut: Vanessa Dew, Co-founder of Health-ade Kombucha

the type of manager I wanted to be or not be blessed or her. I think one of the managers I had at that job, she was so on it, such a micromanager of sorts that I saw the way that she was demotivating to some of the top players on our team. She was doing emails like super late. She was just expecting everyone to be on twenty four to seven. That it wasn't sustainable. So that was a big eye opener for me. Second is just your ability to tap into human potential with EQ And at the time, I don't think I had it or I didn't quite know how to leverage it, and so I knew that that was a big deal, but I had to really learn it on the job when I started health Aid, especially as we started hiring employees. And then the third thing is just this ability to communicate. And what I mean by that is how you hold yourself like people will believe. So if you hold yourself, you know, in a smaller position, if you are communicating to someone else that you're in a weaker position, they'll believe that. You know, so you really have to step into the place that you need to be a little bit of fake it till you make it, because you know there's many meeting we were in that no one thought we believed we should be in, but we were confident about it for ourselves and communicated that way. 00:07:16 Speaker 3: So the three lessons that I'm hearing is number one, not be the kind of micromanaging manager that you had, because that did not help you your productivity, your efficiency. Perhaps it caused you a lot of anxiety in that job. Developing EQ emotional intelligence and just straight up communications. 00:07:33 Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. Those three biggest takeaways. 00:07:36 Speaker 3: So while you're in pharma, you and your co founders were starting to toy with the idea of like, okay, let's start our own thing. 00:07:42 Speaker 4: We have that drive and we're willing. 00:07:44 Speaker 3: To take that risk, right, Okay, kombucha not hair loss drink. Tell me about that. 00:07:51 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:07:51 Speaker 2: So once we decided to pivot from hair loss to train you that okay, so how do we get it out to consumers? The thing about us, we call ourselves a trifecta and justin and from time a pivot to actually getting the bottle in someone's hands to buy, it's probably sixty days, so arguably very quick and the easiest way for us to get products out to sell was to the farmer's market. 00:08:15 Speaker 3: What did you learn in that experience of setting up your own stall talking to consumers? 00:08:20 Speaker 4: I imagine that was a huge learning experience. 00:08:22 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, so when we got placed in our stall, no one was coming to our table. So we learned very quickly that we needed to go proactively to sample people say, Hi, have you tried kombucha before? 00:08:34 Speaker 1: Yes or no? 00:08:35 Speaker 2: If they haven't, then you can start at step one like, okay, kombucha is a fermented. 00:08:40 Speaker 1: Tea, what is it? 00:08:41 Speaker 2: Healthy acids, probiotics, and you kind of walk them through quick bites of how to message your product in a way that they will digest and understand. Because if you hear bacteria for your gut, you might like turn and run. But if you hear something that is totally around probiotics, healthy acids, for me, just try, you know. It was like, those are sound bites that you can get behind. 00:09:04 Speaker 3: What did you learn about communicating to somebody who is skeptical. 00:09:08 Speaker 2: Communicating with confidence, betting on yourself and betting to that person like that you are willing to do what it takes to allow them to believe you. So oftentimes, you know, do my spiel and I would say like just try it, like literally, try two shots, walk around the market. If you don't like it, I will give you your money back. Just try that. So it was very much like a guarantee. I think sometimes people are hesitant to do something like that because you don't believe in your product, or you don't believe in something like the customer may be shy about something and that skepticism that you're talking about, and so communicating that confidence really instills in them like wow, like okay, maybe there's something here, and they would always come back. There was always one hundred percent pass for it here. Everyone loved it. That's like the biggest thing is communicating with confidence. 00:09:59 Speaker 3: All right, So starting in a farmer's market, then tell me what happens from there. 00:10:03 Speaker 2: Yeah, So from a farmer's market, we started going into wholesale, so just distribution around Los Angeles. I think that first year in twenty thirteen, we're in two hundred and fifty stores around Los Angeles, so all the hot spots of LA. And then from there we got noticed by some larger chains by our investors, and so from there it really cemented us in a place of strength to really grow our distribution. 00:10:30 Speaker 3: Can you tell me about hiring during that early period, Like, I imagine, when you're hiring, you can make some great hires, but there also might be some mistakes as well. 00:10:40 Speaker 2: Yeah, So the biggest mistake was when I had, you know, that feeling in your gut when you're like there's a little bit of a red flag. And I didn't listen to that gut feeling. So every time there's been a bad example of hiring, there's always been a red flag that I just that gut feeling I was like that I. 00:10:58 Speaker 1: Didn't look into more. 00:11:00 Speaker 2: One example was an investor had suggested an employee, and so being new to this space of CpG of beverage, I almost felt like I trusted too blindly this person of seemingly power and experience of delivering a quality employee to our business. And so that was the red flag I didn't listen to. This person was our first distant hire outside of LA headquarters. I was more waiting for that person to give me the feedback on how it was on the ground. But then I had so many questions and so much

anxiety about you know, what do the stores look like? What is the status with these accounts? And I didn't set up the right feedback loop around the information that I needed to hear as a manager, And so I didn't create the right I think, one on one relationship around what it meant to deliver back information to me. I think I assumed, having so much experience in this space, there'd be a natural you tell me what to do. But I should have set up the systems beforehand, because they were actually looking for more guidance. When I assumed, you know, they're great, they already had so much experience. 00:12:09 Speaker 3: Interesting, So is it more like what you learned was about setting expectations, having clear expectations, because that wasn't set early. 00:12:16 Speaker 1: That's a great way to us summarize it. 00:12:18 Speaker 3: Obviously this was you know, one person, one experience. You learned a lot, But moving forward, what did you take from that experience? 00:12:24 Speaker 2: I realized I needed to up my managerial game, so one I hired an executive coach at that time too, So really kind of honing in on what you were talking about, I was like, Okay, let's set the expectations up front. Let's create the cadence in which I need to hear information back then, Also, like the how like the systems in which we were, so was it through text or email? Like making sure we felt good about that two way information street. 00:12:52 Speaker 3: I love that because it reminds me. You know, I teach communications, and I always talk about how we all have different communication preferences, like how I prefer to communicate might be same or different from you, And you know, part of making sure that we're always communicating is making sure we're communicating the way the other person wants to receive it right. And I think that's exactly to your point. I'm speaking with Vanessa Do, co founder of health Aid Kombucha. But let's take a quick break more from our conversation in just a few Welcome back to leading by Example. My guest is Vanessa d co founder of health Aid Kombucha, the popular beverage company that dominated throughout the twenty tens and beyond. Okay, so the company is growing. You know, you are now in thousands of stores. You are managing how many employees at this point. 00:13:51 Speaker 2: Probably eighty corporate employees over one hundred manufacturing employees. 00:13:56 Speaker 3: Okay, So as a company grew, how did your leadership style change? 00:14:00 Speaker 2: So it went from doing everything and having you know, one to one with basically everyone to know the amount of people. You can't do that anymore. We had some town hall meetings. It was only seven people at the time, but then it grew to like one hundred and fifty, one hundred and eighty, so I think up to maybe employee like fifty. 00:14:20 Speaker 1: I think. 00:14:21 Speaker 2: I felt like I always needed to know the answers people were like coming to you, like, Okay, what do you

want to do? 00:14:26 Speaker 1: What do you want to do? I felt the real. 00:14:28 Speaker 2: Turning point for me was when I became more vulnerable in the way that I led to allow people to step into what I needed them to be. So that comes with honesty of myself and kind of where I am, and also just like plainly saying the thing that I needed, rather than having you know, a shield up almost of invincibility and saying, this is what we must do because at a certain point, you hire people because they have subject matter expertise that you want them to take your company to the next height, right, And so from that was a big learning And this was also around the same time when I was really trying to learn how to be better at my personal relationships too, so it was kind of like a two for one. I was like trying to be more vulnerable and how I was in a personal relationship, and I just saw how reaping the benefits of that turning point in all aspects of my life really turned the corner. 00:15:21 Speaker 3: Was there a specific incident that happened that made you go, wait a second, like I need to be way more open, vulnerable in order for me and the business to move forward. 00:15:31 Speaker 4: Was there something that happened. 00:15:32 Speaker 2: Well, it was more so around probably twenty seventeen. And at this point we were the bell of the ball and beverage. We're growing, Like everything from the outside looked great, but I remember inside up until that point, it was like, well, here's the strategy of where we need to go. And it was very easy to just tell the employees. In twenty seventeen, we had turned the corner with our out of stocks. We had a whole new facility. The world was our oyster, really and it was more so like, okay, I also need you guys to be able to tell me, like, how are we going to do this because the trade offs, Like you guys are telling me you're tired, like this is unsustainable growth, Well tell me, like what's possible? Because it was almost to the point where all the employees were giving it. They're all but to what end? Like where are we going with it? Like it's just going to be more and more and more, And so I felt this emotional turmoil with the team, and yet I also saw so much opportunity, but I didn't know how to just say more and more and more, like we're also not you know, this dictator is saying like go more, right, and so that wouldn't be possible. It almost felt like it was going to be a boiling pot of just energy, like the team is giving it, they're all, but they're tired and exhausted. It's unsustainable. There's so much opportunity to capitalize on, Like how do we do it? I just foresaw that if we don't change how we're approaching this, my leadership style specifically, it's almost going to be like an implosion. And so oh, I remember it was that planning year, and I remember going to some key people and saying like I can't alone say where we need to go, Like I want you to step into the role that I know that you can

be and tell me, like what is the path? What is it? Twenty percent of business we need to focus on to tackle the eighty percent, like working smart, not harder, because there's too much that a team, even though we were quite large at that point, we can't take it all on. So it was really those types of discussions that allow people to also step into the role. They felt more empowered about their jobs, like they had a voice in like what the direction was to And I think that's what was needed at that point too. 00:17:38 Speaker 3: I can't even imagine, Like you said it so beautifully, the business was like the. 00:17:43 Speaker 4: Bell of the ball. 00:17:44 Speaker 3: All these opportunities almost end this opportunities you can go wherever you wanted to go, But internally people are like feeling this to your point turmoil, like what happens now? Like I can't handle it, And it's kind of like you need both to work in harmony in order for you to grow and for you you're like, wait a second, I cannot sustain this way. 00:18:01 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:18:02 Speaker 3: Yeah, So the vulnerability part was you saying what. 00:18:07 Speaker 2: I was like, Look, you guys have come to me to make the decision, and I'm happy to for a very long time, but at this point I need you guys because I don't have the answers. And I think just saying that I think I was worried saying that type of sentence would instill doubt. 00:18:24 Speaker 1: Or fear in the leader that I am. 00:18:27 Speaker 2: But my executive coach really helped me to see, like a business grew from zero to this, it's really incredible, how do we make it more incredible? And you're just saying, like, I don't have all the answers, that's why you're here, and I need your help. And I think those two sentences, like I don't have all the answers, I need your help actually is also what I'm trying to practice my personal life now still. But that really allowed people to have insight around like I have the ability to make my voice known to basically curate and like have the paint brush of like direct where this business can go. 00:19:01 Speaker 3: So instead of you having to have all the answers, you're like, wait a second, you tell me what do you think? Right, it's like kind of changing the direction of the conversation. 00:19:08 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I actually felt like that really changed not just my leadership and communication style, but also my ability to do more in the business too, because I think I said I didn't want to be that micromanaging person at my farmer life. I think a part of me was still holding on to so much. This allowed me to like loosen the reins a little bit. 00:19:28 Speaker 3: So in twenty twenty one, First BEB acquired a controlling stake in Health Aid, So then that started to change the dynamic of leadership as well. Did that feel strange to you in the sense where there's an external CEO now running, but you, as a co founder. 00:19:43 Speaker 4: Are still part of the business, Like, what

does that feel like? 00:19:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, quite literally, it's like you gave your baby up for adoption, but you live in the same house. That's what it felt like, and Health Aid being my first baby, because you gave up kind of this majority stake, but you're still there in the business, operating on a more limited basis, so you're there in the action, but not in the driver's seat. It didn't feel like I lost anything, but it felt like you gave up rights in the way which you did. 00:20:12 Speaker 4: So how did you change your leadership style in that particular situation. 00:20:16 Speaker 2: Transition times always call, I think for a leadership style that is both empathetic, listening even more so, and then also being able to verbalize what's needed in the group to In this case, our investors and that new CEO. So for me, it was more about empathizing with the team to make sure that everyone still felt supporting their jobs because we still had the business to run. It was listening a whole lot more around like what's going on out there, and it was more like give me the skinny. I was like trying to really understand, like what's not being said really and then being able to articulate that with the CEO and the investors at that time, So like just around like employee morale, the direction and making sure we're not just me but everyone was on a unified talk track in that way to help instill confidence in the team in time of transition. I think that's always what leaders are looking to do. 00:21:12 Speaker 3: Now, at a certain point, you then took over as a CEO as well, How did that change again? 00:21:19 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, So then ultimately made the decision for a changing leadership and came in as interim CEO, And that needed a different version of me addressing a company and navigating through transition, and it needed not just empathy, but it needed like decision making, clarity a vision and in all like the last ten years, clarity of vision was important. But I would say even more so now because of this leadership change. And then there was also the communication and leadership with stakeholders, so like that being our new investors who were on the board. So it was very much a multi pronged communication effort and just stepping into parts of me that I guess we're always used, but in a way I thought I needed to be a strong rock and anchor for the company most of all, because within one year there was just so much change, and my job at that time was just to continue to instill confidence in our brand, our product, what we were trying to do, what our purpose was, and if we were changing course on anything, clearly communicating what and why. 00:22:28 Speaker 3: And then after you came in a CEO, you also then decided we need to hire another CEO. I can't even imagine what was going through your mind, your emotions during that period of time. 00:22:40 Speaker 2: I mean, quite honestly, like even before the majority sale, like I was ready

to leave, but often you don't communicate that to your employees or really anyone. And my co founders knew this, and my husband knew this, but I was done, like it was a twelve year sprint at that point, and you really tired. I just had my first baby, pregnant my second. I was like ready, but at that time I needed to step in a CEO because there was no other option at that exact time and the company needed a steadfastness. Really I was happy to do it for the business, but it was time for me, from like a soulful level to just leave the seat and hire someone else in. 00:23:20 Speaker 3: I think it takes a lot of like vulnerability in many ways to go, you know what, I'm ready, like, I'm ready to kind of close this chapter. 00:23:27 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was it was time, like it was a very vulnerable time. I mean as a mom yourself, I think you remember like the hormones postpartum like still, and so for me, I was battling every day almost not feeling like myself because that's just how you feel after having a baby, but then you need it to be every. 00:23:48 Speaker 1: Part of yourself for your business. 00:23:50 Speaker 2: It was almost this duality that it really took everything from me. 00:23:56 Speaker 3: I want to read this quode because I think it sums up perfectly. During this period of time, you know, beyond the financial reward, which was you exiting, I felt freedom from this beverage business I loved, but have given too much of myself to maintain a healthy relationship with it. 00:24:11 Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yep still stands. Yeah. 00:24:16 Speaker 2: I mean I am the type of person that will just give it my all, like. 00:24:21 Speaker 1: Whatever I am in and in. 00:24:24 Speaker 2: This case health Aid, it was everything that I had. 00:24:27 Speaker 1: What we had. 00:24:29 Speaker 2: I remember saying, like, we are the sacrificial lamps of this business every day, and when you're a founder, like the book stuffs with you and everything. But to the point of I didn't know myself anymore, like it took everything from me, and post health Aid I needed to rebuild what that was for myself. 00:24:46 Speaker 3: So you're exited now as you reflect on this journey thinking about this cost of intensity, which was the last like ten twelve years of your life. Back then, what are some lessons learned? 00:24:57 Speaker 2: Oh well, in the midst of it, I always felt more painful than looking back at It's kind of like pregnancy. Also, it's like good child, bird, I know, but for me, it's like you can do hard things. I look back and like that was one of the most grueling journeys of one's life and I know I can do hard things and that really has stuck with me. And then second is when I think about myself and how I've grown as not just a leader, but also as a person in this world. As the vulnerability piece. I think those lessons around EQ what I learned about myself and how to connect with people. That has really stuck with me and hopefully helping in my relationship with my husband right now, but trying at least, that part has really stuck with me. Business is about people at the end of the day, who you employ and how you get them to work for you and for the business is a whole philosophy in its own and those lessons stuck with me. 00:25:58 Speaker 3: For the people who are always like the go go go, hustle, hustle, hustle. What's your take on this now? Is it necessary? Is that sustainable? Is that something you still believe in? 00:26:07 Speaker 2: So this world of beverage took everything from my being, right, so I sacrifice so much that hustle is what we brought every day, and I don't think that's the best way to give it your all. Actually, this hustle mentality, I do think there's times when you have to ante up and really buckle in. As an example, I'm a co chair for the Benefit for the Kids Face museum locally to me in Pasadena, and that's been like, you know, six to eight month affair. But like now it's go time. So like, yes, now we're hustling because it happens to be in one week and so it is mostly all day every day, but it's not at the expense of so many other things that like I'm still at home with my kids for bedtime, right, So I think also you have to prioritize what matters. The things that matter to you shouldn't fall off the boat. So during Health Aid, it did my own health, my mental health, you know, all the parts that should be priority felt off that priority list. What I wouldn't want to do again is sacrificing myself for the thing. And so what that looks like is, you know, I'm still having my non negotiables on my calendar of I still want to work out, I still want to be able to be there for my kids' bedtime. 00:27:16 Speaker 1: So I've learned. 00:27:18 Speaker 2: That you really just got to focus, and that focus and that intentionality I think gets you way farther than just like the furious duck swimming and like what happens underwater of like chaotic swim doesn't really get too much. 00:27:32 Speaker 3: As we wrap up here, is there anything else that you want to share with our listeners about leadership? 00:27:38 Speaker 2: I would say the two things that would be takeaways from me as a listener is one, betting on yourself and knowing that you have what it takes, like people are betting on you, so you have to bet on yourself first and foremost. And the second thing is I actually learned from my therapist, it's when those ideas of imposter syndrome come into you and they actually affect how you communicate. For examples like oh, I'm not meant to be in this director role. But then you can ask yourself, but are you in this role? And you're like I am, and just telling yourself like I am in this role for a reason. Just being able to answer that simple question and reaffirming why you are in the place that you are in allows you to portray yourself as a leader in a way that will get you so much farther than if you just had that kind of fear in the back of your head. 00:28:28 Speaker

3: Thank you so much, Vanessa, this is such an amazing conversation. 00:28:31 Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. This is so fun. 00:28:38 Speaker 3: Wow, that was such an amazing conversation with Vanessa. I appreciated her honesty and transparency where she took us straight into her raw leadership journey. I learned so much, but the three points that really stood out to me were these. Number One, leadership is about how you show up, not your title. Number two, sometimes when you stop trying to be the smartest person in the room, you can grow faster. And number three, giving too much of yourself at work can have its consequences. So starting with the first one, one of my favorite parts about this conversation was when Vanessa talked about the cues you give people at work and how that can impact the way you're perceived. When she first started selling healthy kombucha, it was at the farmer's market and how at the time not many people knew what kombucha was and the only way to get people to try this new and novel product was to give people the cues that she was beyond confident about it. So, using her words, she told customers, try it. If you don't like it, I'll give you your money back. This signal that she believed in her product and she backed it up. So for you, as a leader, how you carry yourself determines how others are going to treat. 00:29:57 Speaker 4: You as well. 00:29:59 Speaker 3: Always think about the cues you're giving to your team, specifically social cue, sensory cues, and even the patterns. Having a nice title can definitely help you with getting the recognition you want, but it also comes with how you show up and engage with people. The second point that really stood out to me was all about how she didn't need to have all the answers. So, like me, you've probably heard that before. But what I loved about Vanessa's story and her leadership journey was her realization that when she tried to have the answers to all the questions and all the problems, it actually made her micro manage her team, which was exactly what she didn't want to do. For her she realized everyone on her team was feeling so tired, stretched thin, and unsure of how much more they can give, and that's when she realized she had to go from telling people what to do to instead asking them for help. Vanessa said that moment shifted everything her and she was able to quote unquote loosen the reins a bit, but it also gave people on her team the opportunity to step up fully into their roles, and in turn, the business didn't slow down, but it grew in a more sustainable way. So for you, if you're feeling stuck, or if your team is feeling stuck, think about how showing just a little bit of vulnerability can actually be what your team needs. It's almost like an invitation that you want people to bring their best thinking forward, because, like Vanessa, that's how her company her team started to scale. And the third point, giving too much of yourself at work can have its consequences. This was the most honest part of this conversation. It was hearing her talk about the cost of building something so intensely for over a decade and what that cost her. And she didn't sugarcoat it. She loved her work, she loved the business. She gave it everything, and eventually she realized that she had given too much of herself to sustain a healthy relationship with the work, and in her words, at the end, she didn't even know herself anymore. It's so interesting because we hear of so many stories that glorify this hustle culture, but we don't really talk about how when we do that, we also don't think about what actually matters to us. So for you, it could be things like your health, being present with your family, like what actually brings you joy. This lesson was also very profound for me because it also made me realize how important it is for you to have your non negotiables and even determining what those non negotiables are. 00:32:47 Speaker 4: You don't have to do it. 00:32:49 Speaker 3: You know, once you get a certain title, this can be now and it doesn't mean you have to stop working hard. And as a leader, I think people actually notice that and they can actually respect that as as long as you communicate it to your team too. 00:33:02 Speaker 4: So if you're. 00:33:03 Speaker 3: Thinking, gosh, maybe I do need to slow down, maybe I do need to start thinking about what my non negotiables are, start redefining what giving it your all actually looks like and is it actually what you want? Because I believe when you can get clear on that, you can then give more of what energizes you. 00:33:26 Speaker 2: Now. 00:33:26 Speaker 3: I want to say thank you so much to Vanessa for joining us. This was such a great conversation, and to all of you who are listening. If you enjoyed this episode or you have feedback on what you want to hear, and guess you'd like to hear from. Please rate and review Leading by Example. 00:33:42 Speaker 4: Every review, every rating. 00:33:44 Speaker 3: Really does help us reach more people and make this show the best it can be. I'm Jessica Chen, the author of Smart Not Loud, How to Get Noticed at Work for All the Right Reasons, and the CEO of Soulcast Media, a communications training company. For more and from me and what I do, head over to my website Soulcastmedia dot com or add me on LinkedIn and Instagram. 00:34:07 Speaker 4: A huge thank you. 00:34:08 Speaker 3: To our production team at Ruby Studio, especially Matt Stillo, Kelly Kyle, and Sierra Spreen. We'll be back in two weeks with another episode of Leading by Example. 00:34:18 Speaker 4: I'll see you then,