Full Transcript for Design & Childcare

all the way up 39 00:01:43,310 --> 00:01:45,920 through, a school age program which could include 40 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:47,630 usually no more than 12 year olds. 41 00:01:48,260 --> 00:01:48,930 Skyler: Gotcha. okay. 42 00:01:48,930 --> 00:01:49,490 Dan Levi: Well, cool. 43 00:01:49,490 --> 00:01:51,130 Skyler: All right, so we've got that established, which I 44 00:01:51,130 --> 00:01:53,090 think is really important right at the get go. So 45 00:01:53,090 --> 00:01:54,970 for those out there listening, big difference 46 00:01:54,970 --> 00:01:57,570 there between the terms daycare and childcare. 47 00:01:57,570 --> 00:01:59,090 We're talking about childcare today and the 48 00:01:59,090 --> 00:02:02,170 importance of design within childcare and how we 49 00:02:02,170 --> 00:02:05,410 can sort of enhance or better child care from a 50 00:02:05,410 --> 00:02:08,010 design standpoint. So lots of things to get into 51 00:02:08,010 --> 00:02:10,020 here. I know you kind of clarified there were like 52 00:02:10,020 --> 00:02:13,660 two key sort of overarching concepts that we're 53 00:02:13,660 --> 00:02:16,900 going to go with here as far as when we kind of 54 00:02:16,900 --> 00:02:18,660 integrate design with child care. What are those 55 00:02:18,660 --> 00:02:20,780 two like kind of key key areas? 56 00:02:21,740 --> 00:02:26,020 Dan Levi: So the two biggest hurdles in or challenges in the 57 00:02:26,020 --> 00:02:28,860 child care industry are affordability and 58 00:02:28,860 --> 00:02:32,500 availability. Gotcha. So there recently was a lot 59 00:02:32,500 --> 00:02:34,980 of grant money out for trying to solve the 60 00:02:34,980 --> 00:02:37,700 availability problem. So we have was, we're the 61 00:02:37,700 --> 00:02:40,060 beneficiary of a lot of this grant money and have 62 00:02:40,540 --> 00:02:43,960 had a dozen or so childcare built in in the last 63 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,200 three or four years. Those monies are now being 64 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,890 shifted more towards affordability. it was great. 65 00:02:49,890 --> 00:02:52,450 We have bricks and mortar. We need more spaces. 66 00:02:52,530 --> 00:02:55,410 How do we get kids in childcare? What the state 67 00:02:56,050 --> 00:02:58,450 has finally started to listen to is it's a two 68 00:02:58,450 --> 00:03:01,120 pronged, approach to solve the childcare crisis, 69 00:03:02,220 --> 00:03:04,620 in our state or across, we should say the country. 70 00:03:05,340 --> 00:03:07,380 And that now they're starting to do spend a little 71 00:03:07,380 --> 00:03:09,570 bit more of those dollars on the affordability 72 00:03:09,570 --> 00:03:12,410 side, helping with operational expenses. There's 73 00:03:12,410 --> 00:03:14,450 certain programs that are being in place. If 74 00:03:14,450 --> 00:03:16,410 you're a childcare worker, for example, you 75 00:03:16,410 --> 00:03:19,510 automatically qualify, for assistance, to get your 76 00:03:19,510 --> 00:03:22,110 own child in

a childcare. Regardless of your 77 00:03:22,830 --> 00:03:24,910 income, your family income, you're still gonna 78 00:03:24,910 --> 00:03:28,190 qualify. They're doing things like that. maybe 79 00:03:28,190 --> 00:03:30,350 some tuition reimbursement opportunities. Those 80 00:03:30,350 --> 00:03:33,100 are pretty thin. but there are some programs out 81 00:03:33,100 --> 00:03:36,540 there. So, so when it comes to design, we'll get 82 00:03:36,540 --> 00:03:40,180 into this is availability. We're clearly solving 83 00:03:40,180 --> 00:03:43,970 with just designing new facilities either for a 84 00:03:43,970 --> 00:03:45,970 new facility, excuse me, or expansion. 85 00:03:46,290 --> 00:03:46,690 Skyler: Right. 86 00:03:46,930 --> 00:03:51,730 Dan Levi: That's pretty obvious. The affordability side is 87 00:03:51,730 --> 00:03:53,370 different. And m, we're going to take a much 88 00:03:53,370 --> 00:03:56,250 deeper dive into that, into how design can help 89 00:03:56,250 --> 00:03:58,130 with affordability of those programs. 90 00:03:58,530 --> 00:04:00,850 Skyler: Absolutely. And I think kind of to kick things off 91 00:04:00,850 --> 00:04:03,690 with that, we got to talk budget. What is kind of 92 00:04:03,690 --> 00:04:05,690 the typical budget within a child care facility 93 00:04:05,690 --> 00:04:08,930 look like and how are we kind of since 94 00:04:08,930 --> 00:04:11,010 affordability is so important, how are we kind of 95 00:04:11,010 --> 00:04:13,970 narrowing in how we're doing our design work to 96 00:04:13,970 --> 00:04:15,130 make something that's affordable? 97 00:04:15,530 --> 00:04:19,290 Dan Levi: So first and foremost we want to talk about how a 98 00:04:19,290 --> 00:04:22,930 childcare is run. And the key to designing great 99 00:04:22,930 --> 00:04:26,240 buildings is always in that. And everybody will 100 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,280 tell you that it's in the pre design phase. It's, 101 00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:31,160 it's, it's extracting information from our client 102 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,280 to understand what are their challenges, what are 103 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:36,520 their opportunities, what are their desires, and 104 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,880 what are their needs. So when we talk about 105 00:04:40,220 --> 00:04:42,170 childcare in particular, which is different from 106 00:04:42,170 --> 00:04:44,620 any other industry that we've ever worked in, any 107 00:04:44,620 --> 00:04:49,260 of your client type, they're usually nonprofit. 108 00:04:49,420 --> 00:04:51,580 And when we say nonprofit, we want to talk about 109 00:04:51,580 --> 00:04:53,460 that in two terms. One, they're nonprofit from a 110 00:04:53,460 --> 00:04:55,100 legal standpoint. They don't pay property tax. 111 00:04:55,420 --> 00:04:57,620 They don't pay, tax on profit over expense 112 00:04:57,780 --> 00:05:00,540 revenue. Excuse me, Revenue over expense being 113 00:05:00,540 --> 00:05:02,500 profit. That money has to go back into the

114 00:05:02,500 --> 00:05:04,870 business. You can use some of it, as bonuses, but 115 00:05:04,870 --> 00:05:07,630 it's typically going back into the business. The 116 00:05:07,630 --> 00:05:09,790 other reason they're nonprofit is because we need 117 00:05:09,790 --> 00:05:14,190 to use the term in the sense of they don't make 118 00:05:14,190 --> 00:05:14,550 money. 119 00:05:14,870 --> 00:05:15,190 Skyler: Right. 120 00:05:15,190 --> 00:05:17,510 Dan Levi: This is not something typically you're going to 121 00:05:17,510 --> 00:05:20,060 say, hey, we're going to start a side business, of 122 00:05:20,060 --> 00:05:22,580 a child care. You are not going into child care to 123 00:05:22,580 --> 00:05:25,710 make money. It is really, really tough. Which 124 00:05:25,710 --> 00:05:27,830 leads to one of our two points about the pre 125 00:05:27,830 --> 00:05:30,310 design. One is determining what is the real need 126 00:05:30,550 --> 00:05:32,990 and what we will typically do. When I say we, I 127 00:05:32,990 --> 00:05:36,950 meant our team along with a consultant that we use 128 00:05:37,190 --> 00:05:41,340 who has decades of experience in childcare. We'll 129 00:05:41,570 --> 00:05:45,370 talk about a community survey. What does it mean? 130 00:05:45,450 --> 00:05:48,170 What are the actual needs? Rather than just 131 00:05:48,170 --> 00:05:51,490 relying on the client to say anecdotally hearing 132 00:05:51,490 --> 00:05:53,770 we need, we need room for babies, we need room for 133 00:05:53,930 --> 00:05:56,330 5 year olds. We actually go out of the community 134 00:05:56,330 --> 00:05:59,800 and do a survey. And so we survey, things like how 135 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:01,760 far away do you drive to get to your childcare? 136 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:03,920 What are you paying? We go research what 137 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,520 competition is paying staff as well as what are 138 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,440 they charging. So we understand what the market 139 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,800 really is and we are regularly m surprised. You go 140 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,440 into different markets and we're being told it's 141 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,080 babies is the need. And actually it turns out it's 142 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,210 three year olds after school program. Ah. Or 143 00:06:22,210 --> 00:06:23,970 sometimes we think, oh, we've got this huge 144 00:06:24,130 --> 00:06:27,610 laundry list, of weights for childcare or for 145 00:06:27,850 --> 00:06:30,610 after school program. When we did a survey, it 146 00:06:30,610 --> 00:06:33,010 actually said people were good in the community, 147 00:06:33,010 --> 00:06:35,910 they're looking for infant care. And so using 148 00:06:35,910 --> 00:06:40,270 that, using that data as a means to design so that 149 00:06:40,270 --> 00:06:42,950 we're not designed in the sense of what does the 150 00:06:42,950 --> 00:06:45,850 building look like aesthetically? What is the 151 00:06:45,850 -->

00:06:48,010 building shape like, how many rooms are there, how 152 00:06:48,010 --> 00:06:49,810 big are the rooms, what are the age groups that 153 00:06:49,810 --> 00:06:52,770 we're serving, thinking about the demographics of, 154 00:06:52,770 --> 00:06:56,610 of the customers. I use that in quotes in the, in 155 00:06:56,610 --> 00:06:59,250 the space being our children. So that survey can 156 00:06:59,250 --> 00:07:01,960 help that the other piece, to understanding in 157 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,320 that pre design is a pro forma. If you don't know 158 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,640 what pro forma is. A pro forma is the dollars and 159 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,390 cents, the money of the operation, how much 160 00:07:12,390 --> 00:07:14,670 revenue, how much expense, what are the expenses. 161 00:07:15,070 --> 00:07:17,270 And so one thing we have gotten into over the 162 00:07:17,270 --> 00:07:20,500 years, very organically is helping people 163 00:07:20,500 --> 00:07:23,100 understand they know how to run a child care, but 164 00:07:23,100 --> 00:07:24,420 they don't know where their dollars are going. 165 00:07:24,420 --> 00:07:26,020 They don't know how much to charge. They don't 166 00:07:26,020 --> 00:07:28,230 know why they're paying staff this, they don't see 167 00:07:28,230 --> 00:07:29,790 that they're spending too much money in certain 168 00:07:29,790 --> 00:07:31,830 areas. And through the experience of working with 169 00:07:31,830 --> 00:07:35,270 our consultant and doing many of these, that we 170 00:07:35,270 --> 00:07:37,590 now have a template that we use that is a very 171 00:07:37,590 --> 00:07:41,830 robust tool that is proprietary information that 172 00:07:41,830 --> 00:07:45,480 CMBA now owns with, the acquisition of our firm 173 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,760 here in Cedar Falls. And we use it to help design, 174 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,440 to lay out the parameters of what it's going to 175 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,000 take and why. We design rooms the size that they 176 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,920 are and space them the way we do. And whether we 177 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,280 include a full kitchen or a serving kitchen for 178 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:02,800 catering, whether we have a multipurpose room or 179 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,440 we don't. And all of the decisions that go around 180 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:10,160 that it comes from that pro forma that tells us we 181 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,420 can build. Build exactly what you wanted, Mr. And 182 00:08:12,420 --> 00:08:16,060 Mrs. owner. We think it's going to lose you money 183 00:08:16,460 --> 00:08:18,420 because you've got too many of this kid and not 184 00:08:18,420 --> 00:08:21,140 enough of this or this space is too big. And so we 185 00:08:21,140 --> 00:08:23,340 can show them in dollars and cents what the 186 00:08:23,340 --> 00:08:28,500 implications of the program does to the bottom 187 00:08:28,500 --> 00:08:31,900 line. It is imperative because the biggest 188 00:08:31,900 --> 00:08:37,300 business challenge of child care is 70% to 75% of 189 00:08:37,300 --> 00:08:39,360 all the money spent is wages. 190 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:41,240 Skyler: Right. That makes sense. 191 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:41,520 Dan Levi: Right? 192 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:42,000 Skyler: Yeah. 193 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:47,320 Dan Levi: You've got another 10% to 15% is food. Okay. So 194 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,280 there's nutritional requirements. Everything is. 195 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,640 You know, any center which is anything more than 196 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,880 eight kids is licensed by state of Iowa. And 197 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:56,240 there's nutritional requirements. 198 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:57,800 Skyler: Absolutely. I mean, you're going to have those 199 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:59,920 kids there for however many hours a day you've got 200 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:00,400 to feed them. 201 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:02,920 Dan Levi: Right. And so there's minimum nutritional 202 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,750 requirements, not unlike a school. and so how are 203 00:09:05,750 --> 00:09:07,110 we going to administer that? So you look at those 204 00:09:07,110 --> 00:09:11,150 costs, and typically child care centers have a 205 00:09:11,150 --> 00:09:13,590 single revenue stream, and that's the fees that we 206 00:09:13,590 --> 00:09:15,990 charge our stakeholders. Mom, dad, grandma, 207 00:09:15,990 --> 00:09:18,430 grandpa. That's the only source of income they 208 00:09:18,430 --> 00:09:20,509 have, unless they do some cute little fundraisers. 209 00:09:20,509 --> 00:09:22,590 Some are more robust, but most of them are pretty 210 00:09:22,590 --> 00:09:24,910 thin. So when we look at those fees and we look at 211 00:09:24,910 --> 00:09:27,830 what we're paying, and we look at the industry, at 212 00:09:27,830 --> 00:09:31,250 least, let's say, subject just to Iowa. It is a 213 00:09:31,250 --> 00:09:35,370 daunting task to come up with a pro forma that 214 00:09:35,370 --> 00:09:37,210 runs in the black. And if you know your 215 00:09:37,290 --> 00:09:39,370 financials, black means you have revenue over 216 00:09:39,370 --> 00:09:41,970 expense. In the red Means you have expense over 217 00:09:41,970 --> 00:09:45,570 revenue. It's not a good place to live. And so we 218 00:09:45,570 --> 00:09:47,970 have been hired for example to look at, to help 219 00:09:47,970 --> 00:09:50,450 childcare. And all we've done is a pro forma. We 220 00:09:50,450 --> 00:09:52,650 did no architectural work. We just did the pro 221 00:09:52,650 --> 00:09:55,130 forma to keep them from closing. And we gave them 222 00:09:55,130 --> 00:09:57,010 some decisions, said you have to make some hard 223 00:09:57,010 --> 00:10:01,410 choices. Here's decisions you have to make. You 224 00:10:01,410 --> 00:10:03,770 decide how you want this to run, but the decisions 225 00:10:03,770 --> 00:10:05,250 you make are

going to affect whether you even keep 226 00:10:05,250 --> 00:10:08,090 your doors open. So we've been hired to help to do 227 00:10:08,090 --> 00:10:11,490 that. Armed with that kind of knowledge, then we 228 00:10:11,490 --> 00:10:15,110 can design physically, architecturally designed a 229 00:10:15,060 --> 00:10:17,750 space plan and then eventually the exterior of a 230 00:10:17,750 --> 00:10:20,270 childcare center that is going to have to run 231 00:10:20,750 --> 00:10:25,110 lean. And when we mean lean, I mean we're talking 232 00:10:25,110 --> 00:10:28,140 about less than a percentage, revenue over expense 233 00:10:28,140 --> 00:10:28,740 sometimes. 234 00:10:29,060 --> 00:10:29,460 Skyler: Wow. 235 00:10:29,460 --> 00:10:32,660 Dan Levi: very tough business. Very, very tough businesses. 236 00:10:32,820 --> 00:10:36,420 And so when you understand how a business works 237 00:10:37,060 --> 00:10:40,260 from a dollars and cents standpoint and then 238 00:10:40,260 --> 00:10:42,980 operationally how a teacher works the classroom, 239 00:10:42,980 --> 00:10:45,300 how the director helps the teachers in the 240 00:10:45,300 --> 00:10:48,540 classroom, how a floater helps in those areas, you 241 00:10:48,540 --> 00:10:51,700 understand their day to day operation better so 242 00:10:51,700 --> 00:10:55,600 you can space plan better. And the better we do on 243 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,320 the space plan in that organization, the more apt 244 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,000 they are to be a more efficient run center. From a 245 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,680 cost standpoint, quality of care is always 246 00:11:04,680 --> 00:11:06,360 paramount. Right? That's always, that's always 247 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,880 top. But when I say stuff like that, here's an 248 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:13,520 example. For the last several, probably five or 249 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,640 six years now, we've been designing space planning 250 00:11:18,850 --> 00:11:23,050 with toilet rooms in the classroom. And the reason 251 00:11:23,050 --> 00:11:25,410 we do that, rather than gang toilet in one spot, 252 00:11:25,410 --> 00:11:28,250 if we're building new, minimal cost to separate 253 00:11:28,250 --> 00:11:30,010 your toilets because I got to have sinks in every 254 00:11:30,010 --> 00:11:32,870 room by state, state administrative code anyway. 255 00:11:33,270 --> 00:11:34,790 So I'm already got plumbing there. So now I'm 256 00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:36,830 gonna run a 3 inch line instead of a 2 inch line. 257 00:11:36,830 --> 00:11:38,830 Cause I'm picking up toilets instead of just a 258 00:11:38,830 --> 00:11:42,990 sink. So there's minimal cost there. But now when 259 00:11:42,990 --> 00:11:46,070 teacher has to take one, student number one needs 260 00:11:46,070 --> 00:11:49,230 to go potty. If the teacher leaves the room 261 00:11:49,230 --> 00:11:50,950 because the child's not going to go to the toilet 262 00:11:50,950 --> 00:11:53,030 by themselves. Teacher leaves the room, you're now 263 00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:58,230 out of ratio. Student teacher ratio is state law. 264 00:11:58,470 --> 00:12:01,829 Every state that we work in at least has a student 265 00:12:01,829 --> 00:12:05,190 teacher ratio of how many students to per teacher 266 00:12:05,190 --> 00:12:09,110 you can have being supervised at all times. So if 267 00:12:09,110 --> 00:12:12,060 one student leaves, I'm out of ratio. If the 268 00:12:12,060 --> 00:12:13,900 teacher goes with the student, I'm not going to 269 00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:16,340 send that student down the hall by themselves. So 270 00:12:16,340 --> 00:12:19,500 now if I have a room it is one to seven. Two 271 00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:22,460 teachers, 14 kids. One kid leaves, teacher leaves. 272 00:12:22,460 --> 00:12:24,300 Now I've got one to 13 left in the room, I'm out 273 00:12:24,300 --> 00:12:27,580 of ratio. So then what they, what centers will do 274 00:12:27,580 --> 00:12:30,100 is they will have runners. Part timers, might be 275 00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:33,220 high school kids part time, staff nonetheless 276 00:12:33,860 --> 00:12:36,850 comes in and will take the kid, run the kid down 277 00:12:36,850 --> 00:12:39,170 to the toilet and back. Teachers stay in the 278 00:12:39,170 --> 00:12:41,260 classroom, we're in ratio, everybody's happy. But 279 00:12:41,260 --> 00:12:43,060 now I have to have runners. Now I'm increasing 280 00:12:43,060 --> 00:12:45,340 staff costs because I've got to have runners for 281 00:12:45,340 --> 00:12:47,180 that purpose. If I leave the toilets in the 282 00:12:47,180 --> 00:12:51,140 classroom, then the teacher, if there are children 283 00:12:51,140 --> 00:12:54,260 under the age of five, we will just build the 284 00:12:54,260 --> 00:12:57,980 toilets with just a Dewall. Right. 42 inch teacher 285 00:12:57,980 --> 00:13:00,860 stands up, teacher can see that area. They're in 286 00:13:00,860 --> 00:13:02,220 compliance that they can see. You don't do 287 00:13:02,220 --> 00:13:03,980 corners. Teachers have to be able to see the floor 288 00:13:03,980 --> 00:13:06,340 at all times. So now they can see student number 289 00:13:06,340 --> 00:13:09,080 one using the toilet and still be in the room, 290 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:10,720 still see everybody else that's going on. 291 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,560 Otherwise you have to divide your room in half. If 292 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:16,480 that's a two teacher room, half your team needs to 293 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,640 go or half your students need to go to the toilet 294 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,520 together. And we're all going to do it at the same 295 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,120 time. If you want to deal with that, you can. It's 296 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,240 just inconvenience and kids get a little ornery 297 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,080 and they may not do that and then you're always 298 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,400 going to have a potty break. It becomes a

bit 299 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:35,230 much. So, we put toilets in classrooms so that we 300 00:13:35,230 --> 00:13:39,280 can reduce our ancillary staff and I can stick to 301 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:44,200 just a director and in ratio staff. That in ratio 302 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,440 means staff that is in the classroom watching the 303 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,480 children so they're part of that student teacher 304 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,990 ratio. we want to reduce as much as possible the 305 00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:55,270 non ratio staff. Right, bloggers, those are non 306 00:13:55,270 --> 00:13:58,550 ratio staff. So we can design, make space planning 307 00:13:58,550 --> 00:14:02,560 decisions that reduce staffing overall. That is 308 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,400 paramount. With 70 to 75% of your operational cost 309 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:07,760 is staff. 310 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,280 Skyler: Absolutely, yeah. I mean I honestly, lean is the 311 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,240 best way to put it. Right. We're cutting off all 312 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,360 the fat, we're trimming all the fat. Anything 313 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,680 unnecessary and we are making everything 314 00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:20,160 efficient. And the beauty of it is you don't have 315 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,760 to necessarily cut quality in order to make that 316 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:23,840 efficiency either. 317 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,480 Dan Levi: No, we're not going to have grandiose lobbies and 318 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,160 say, right, you know, it's still, you know, it's 319 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,120 still quality carpet drywall. Right. It's, it's, 320 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:34,640 you know, we're not, we're not reinventing the 321 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,360 wheel from, from a construction standpoint, but 322 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,080 we're, you know, we're double loaded corridors. 323 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,000 We're being very efficient with our square 324 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,050 footage. The other piece is, not in rooms that 325 00:14:45,050 --> 00:14:48,290 have cribs. All the other rooms, 35 square feet 326 00:14:48,450 --> 00:14:49,970 per student. 327 00:14:50,130 --> 00:14:50,770 Skyler: Got it. 328 00:14:51,010 --> 00:14:53,850 Dan Levi: In a clear floor area. Not the wall thickness, not 329 00:14:53,850 --> 00:14:55,810 the toilets, not the closets, not the casework. 330 00:14:56,050 --> 00:14:59,510 Clear floor area, 35. We typically design 331 00:14:59,510 --> 00:15:02,070 somewhere between that 35 and 40 number. It gets a 332 00:15:02,070 --> 00:15:04,750 little tight. Right. At 35 you want a little elbow 333 00:15:04,750 --> 00:15:07,590 room. But the bigger those rooms are, the more 334 00:15:07,590 --> 00:15:08,630 costly they are. 335 00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:09,110 Skyler: Right. 336 00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:12,550 Dan Levi: So if my room for example, is, we go back to those 337 00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:16,520 14, the example of a room with 14 kids in it, that 338 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,320 means I need 490 square feet of clear floor area. 339 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,030 If I design that room at 600 square feet, I am 340 00:15:24,030 --> 00:15:26,430 spending a couple of hundred dollars a square foot 341 00:15:26,830 --> 00:15:29,590 beyond the absolute minimum. And I'm not saying we 342 00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:31,710 like to live in the minimums. We want to be 343 00:15:31,790 --> 00:15:34,310 somewhere a little roomier than that. But we can't 344 00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:37,750 be extravagant with our square footage because it 345 00:15:37,750 --> 00:15:40,510 costs so much money because I still have all those 346 00:15:40,510 --> 00:15:43,190 other areas. Kitchen, toilets, hallway, I mean all 347 00:15:43,190 --> 00:15:46,880 that stuff. So, some of the most efficient spaces 348 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,340 that we have designed have been in that. While the 349 00:15:50,340 --> 00:15:54,060 clear floor area is 3,5 square feet per student, 350 00:15:54,380 --> 00:15:58,380 the total building gets somewhere in that 77 to 80 351 00:15:58,540 --> 00:16:00,700 square feet because of all those things we talked 352 00:16:00,700 --> 00:16:04,650 about. Admin space, hallway, mechanical rooms, 353 00:16:04,650 --> 00:16:08,330 kitchen, main vestibule, all those other spaces, 354 00:16:08,330 --> 00:16:10,840 closets, casework, there's so much other stuff 355 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,320 that goes into it. You can't just say, well, we 356 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,440 know the ratio is 35, it's 30. No, it's clear 357 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,000 floor area. So it's, you've got to be clear. So 358 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,160 you end up having a lot more, you know, more than 359 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,250 double that, sometimes triple that, depending on 360 00:16:22,250 --> 00:16:24,210 if they want a dedicated multi purpose room. 361 00:16:24,530 --> 00:16:24,850 Skyler: Right. 362 00:16:24,850 --> 00:16:27,450 Dan Levi: Which, which is expensive space. Depending on what 363 00:16:27,450 --> 00:16:30,730 they charge, maybe you can afford that. But it's, 364 00:16:30,730 --> 00:16:33,730 it's really tough to get too extravagant on space. 365 00:16:34,290 --> 00:16:36,930 Skyler: Right, right. That's. Wow, that's incredible. I 366 00:16:36,930 --> 00:16:39,010 mean if for anyone out there that's thinking like 367 00:16:39,010 --> 00:16:41,730 that, child care spaces, it's like, well, it's 368 00:16:41,730 --> 00:16:42,970 just a bunch of kids. You throw them in a room, 369 00:16:42,970 --> 00:16:45,440 they give them some toys. Absolutely not. 370 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:47,800 Absolutely not. And you know, as you've mentioned 371 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,640 already, there's a Lot of state regulation that 372 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,880 goes on behind the scenes that you have to be able 373 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:52,560 to comply with.

374 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,800 Dan Levi: State administrative code is thick. there's a lot 375 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,600 of rules, not just from the design side, but from 376 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,320 operations and the teachers and the facilities. 377 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,440 They complain about a lot. All of these rules are 378 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,000 set up to safeguard children, to provide minimum 379 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,720 standards for the safety of our most vulnerable 380 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,560 population. So in a sense, it's not dissimilar 381 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,130 from K12, but in another sense it is. It is 382 00:17:14,130 --> 00:17:16,490 significantly different than Cake 12. When we 383 00:17:16,490 --> 00:17:18,610 start thinking about room sizes, we're not doing 384 00:17:18,610 --> 00:17:20,770 it because we're just trying to be just efficient 385 00:17:20,770 --> 00:17:23,450 in general. We have very specific reasons why we 386 00:17:23,450 --> 00:17:25,450 want to be as efficient as possible, because we're 387 00:17:25,450 --> 00:17:27,610 not funding this with tax dollars. All of these 388 00:17:27,610 --> 00:17:28,930 child care centers we're talking about are 389 00:17:28,930 --> 00:17:29,770 privately funded. 390 00:17:29,930 --> 00:17:30,290 Skyler: Right. 391 00:17:30,290 --> 00:17:32,370 Dan Levi: Like, there may be some grant money, but again, 392 00:17:32,370 --> 00:17:34,530 those wells have all dried up and we're talking 393 00:17:34,530 --> 00:17:36,530 about raising these dollars. And when we run pro 394 00:17:36,530 --> 00:17:39,050 formas, we run our pro forma based on an 395 00:17:39,050 --> 00:17:43,190 operational expense. We do not include rent factor 396 00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:46,230 or debt service. We run that so that we think 397 00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:49,510 month to month, year to year, how much revenue 398 00:17:49,510 --> 00:17:54,150 over expense does the entity have and that they 399 00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:58,590 should bank on how much of that can they afford to 400 00:17:58,590 --> 00:18:01,050 use for debt service? If, they're clearing 10 401 00:18:01,050 --> 00:18:04,290 grand a year and they only feel comfortable 402 00:18:04,290 --> 00:18:07,860 spending 5,000 a year on debt service, that 403 00:18:07,860 --> 00:18:10,110 doesn't go very far. that tells you that you 404 00:18:10,110 --> 00:18:13,950 better have your capital fully funded before you 405 00:18:13,950 --> 00:18:16,830 start construction. Absolutely. And that's why you 406 00:18:16,830 --> 00:18:19,350 see projects get started early with design, and 407 00:18:19,350 --> 00:18:21,510 then they sit because they've got a fundraise, 408 00:18:21,510 --> 00:18:25,310 because they don't have the margin to cover debt 409 00:18:25,310 --> 00:18:25,590 service. 410 00:18:25,990 --> 00:18:28,390 Skyler: Absolutely. No, that makes a lot of sense. I know. 411 00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:31,030 We've talked

about it, too. In the past, you had 412 00:18:31,030 --> 00:18:33,870 the Cedar Valley Kids project, and that was put on 413 00:18:34,180 --> 00:18:36,780 hold for a couple of different times before the 414 00:18:36,780 --> 00:18:38,660 money was kind of coming in and, and getting 415 00:18:38,660 --> 00:18:39,140 funded. 416 00:18:39,140 --> 00:18:40,660 Dan Levi: Really. I mean, honestly, what happens? The 417 00:18:40,660 --> 00:18:43,060 project failed, right? Looked at pro formas, we 418 00:18:43,060 --> 00:18:45,500 looked at funding sources. It literally, I'd say 419 00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:47,620 that was to be a better description is it failed. 420 00:18:47,780 --> 00:18:48,180 Skyler: Right? 421 00:18:48,180 --> 00:18:51,620 Dan Levi: It reconstituted itself with a new opportunity. We 422 00:18:51,620 --> 00:18:53,940 ran that scenario. It failed again. We 423 00:18:53,940 --> 00:18:56,820 reconstituted new partners, new opportunities, 424 00:18:56,980 --> 00:18:59,740 free land cooperation with the city and a private 425 00:18:59,740 --> 00:19:03,310 developer out of peer generosity, Big, grant 426 00:19:03,310 --> 00:19:06,740 through UnityPoint, and their generosity to help, 427 00:19:06,750 --> 00:19:09,390 facilitate a business grant, and then their 428 00:19:09,390 --> 00:19:12,150 participation in it. It reconstituted itself with 429 00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:14,750 those opportunities, and then that's how it got 430 00:19:14,750 --> 00:19:17,030 built. We Just had to be creative and had to be 431 00:19:17,030 --> 00:19:18,830 patient. It took years to put that project 432 00:19:18,830 --> 00:19:21,950 together before we even started full design work. 433 00:19:22,110 --> 00:19:24,350 Skyler: Right. And if anything, that really speaks to the 434 00:19:24,350 --> 00:19:27,500 fact of how much it takes to make these child care 435 00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:30,020 centers work. I mean, you guys are working on 436 00:19:30,020 --> 00:19:32,900 such. They're working on such narrow margins. It 437 00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:35,660 takes a lot to come together to make it actually 438 00:19:35,820 --> 00:19:38,420 successful and actually happen. Which is crazy to 439 00:19:38,420 --> 00:19:39,820 think about. So crazy to think about. 440 00:19:50,540 --> 00:19:53,540 Dan Levi: It. Is that revenue side or. Excuse me, that wages 441 00:19:53,540 --> 00:19:54,540 side is really tough. 442 00:19:55,180 --> 00:19:55,500 Skyler: Yeah. 443 00:19:55,820 --> 00:19:59,060 Dan Levi: And it varies wildly. we were working in Boyden. 444 00:19:59,060 --> 00:20:01,340 That's up my Sioux City. Not quite all the way 445 00:20:01,340 --> 00:20:02,820 there, but it's a long way up there from. 446 00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:04,140 Skyler: Yeah for you guys. 447 00:20:04,140 --> 00:20:06,860 Dan Levi: We're working in Boyden and we did a pro forma for 448 00:20:06,860 --> 00:20:10,180 them and some design work for them on a building 449 00:20:10,180 --> 00:20:12,700 and actually two different buildings and they're 450 00:20:12,700 --> 00:20:16,260 charging, we start with infants typically and they 451 00:20:16,260 --> 00:20:19,220 usually charge by the week. And as most people 452 00:20:19,220 --> 00:20:22,260 with young, with very young people would know, and 453 00:20:22,260 --> 00:20:27,100 they might charge 175, $180 a week for an infant. 454 00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:30,140 That's going to be typically about 45 hours a week 455 00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:33,700 and then that. But that ranges all the way to 456 00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:35,740 downtown Cedar Rapids. We're working with a client 457 00:20:35,740 --> 00:20:38,620 down there that's charging 285 a week. 458 00:20:38,940 --> 00:20:40,940 Skyler: Wow, that's a pretty big difference. 459 00:20:41,260 --> 00:20:45,660 Dan Levi: It is small town versus large town. We'll say for 460 00:20:45,660 --> 00:20:48,780 Iowa. Large town and downtown, where everything is 461 00:20:48,780 --> 00:20:50,460 expensive. Right. Everything's dense, everything's 462 00:20:50,460 --> 00:20:55,110 tight. But it speaks to the range of variability 463 00:20:55,590 --> 00:21:00,590 on your income side. On that wage side. We have 464 00:21:00,590 --> 00:21:04,550 areas like boydton, they're paying $12 an hour for 465 00:21:04,550 --> 00:21:08,910 staff. 13 if you're a lead teacher, maybe you're 466 00:21:08,910 --> 00:21:13,830 into the 20, $25 an hour if you are the director. 467 00:21:14,390 --> 00:21:14,790 Skyler: Right. 468 00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:18,310 Dan Levi: And then you go to our other extreme case, you're 469 00:21:18,310 --> 00:21:23,100 in the 16, 7, you know, 15, $16 for staff and your 470 00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:25,820 director might be more like 30, $35 an hour. 471 00:21:25,820 --> 00:21:26,500 Skyler: Yeah, yeah. 472 00:21:27,140 --> 00:21:29,740 Dan Levi: But think about that in terms of the lead teacher, 473 00:21:29,740 --> 00:21:33,850 the teacher in charge of the classroom for the two 474 00:21:33,850 --> 00:21:37,540 year olds. is making anywhere from 14 to $16 an 475 00:21:37,540 --> 00:21:41,940 hour and almost always no benefits. Benefits are 476 00:21:42,100 --> 00:21:45,340 extremely rare in the industry. Outside of the 477 00:21:45,340 --> 00:21:49,920 director, they simply can't afford benefits. So 478 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:51,560 when we talk about benefits, it's usually just 479 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,010 medical. Usually there's no paid time off. they're 480 00:21:54,010 --> 00:21:56,370 not salary, they're almost everyone's hourly. And 481 00:21:56,370 --> 00:21:57,650 if you're there, you get paid and if you're not, 482 00:21:57,650 --> 00:22:01,090 you don't Right. So other industries, unlike our 483 00:22:01,090 --> 00:22:04,810 industry, benefits are really unusual. It's a 484 00:22:04,810 --> 00:22:06,770 really tough business. You have to find unicorns 485 00:22:06,770 --> 00:22:09,810 that just love kids and can afford to live on 486

00:22:09,810 --> 00:22:11,950 those kind of salaries with no benefits. No. No 487 00:22:11,950 --> 00:22:14,830 paid time off. Yeah, it's really. And we're. And 488 00:22:14,830 --> 00:22:17,030 no. And that's the group, that's a group of 489 00:22:17,030 --> 00:22:19,840 individuals, that we're trying to hire again, that 490 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:25,520 are all day educating and watching the most 491 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,719 vulnerable population we have. The most precious 492 00:22:27,719 --> 00:22:30,040 thing in your life. Absolutely. Is your children. 493 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,440 And that's, and that's the industry that we, that 494 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,520 we have grown to accept in Iowa. That's a really 495 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:37,880 crazy thing to say. 496 00:22:38,310 --> 00:22:40,070 Skyler: Absolutely. We're going to give kind of bottom 497 00:22:40,070 --> 00:22:41,950 dollar to the people that we want to put the most 498 00:22:41,950 --> 00:22:43,590 amount of trust in. 499 00:22:44,070 --> 00:22:46,230 Dan Levi: My most precious, I mean, my most precious 500 00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:48,870 commodity, if we will be talking those terms, are 501 00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:52,110 my three children. And yet that's, that's the 502 00:22:52,110 --> 00:22:55,670 industry that we're willing to accept. That's 503 00:22:55,670 --> 00:22:57,590 scary stuff. But what do you do when a mom and dad 504 00:22:57,590 --> 00:23:00,070 combined income making, you know, under 100,000 505 00:23:00,390 --> 00:23:02,150 and you got three kids and none of them are in 506 00:23:02,150 --> 00:23:02,630 school yet? 507 00:23:02,870 --> 00:23:03,430 Skyler: Yeah. 508 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,480 Dan Levi: You wonder why. That's why parents, typically 509 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,840 women, stay home. And so because of that economic 510 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,330 situation, we're removing half of our, population 511 00:23:13,330 --> 00:23:16,530 opportunity from employment. That could be great 512 00:23:16,530 --> 00:23:19,850 employees. But we're saying we understand it's 513 00:23:19,850 --> 00:23:22,090 cheaper for you to stay home or you can then stay 514 00:23:22,090 --> 00:23:23,530 home and raise your kids yourself, which is 515 00:23:23,530 --> 00:23:25,890 awesome. I think that's a beautiful thing if you 516 00:23:25,890 --> 00:23:28,210 can afford it. But I was in the top, usually top 517 00:23:28,210 --> 00:23:30,660 three to top five in dual income earning 518 00:23:30,660 --> 00:23:32,260 households per capita in the nation. 519 00:23:32,580 --> 00:23:32,980 Skyler: Right. 520 00:23:33,060 --> 00:23:35,980 Dan Levi: So our state works. So that means mom and dad are 521 00:23:35,980 --> 00:23:38,300 going to work and they're paying childcare. And 522 00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:41,660 when you got multiple kids in childcare, that's a 523 00:23:41,660 --> 00:23:43,620 really tough place to live from a family 524 00:23:43,780 --> 00:23:44,340 standpoint. 525 00:23:44,580 --> 00:23:46,500 Skyler: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, we're definitely 526 00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:50,100 creating not a great ecosystem, not a great circle 527 00:23:50,180 --> 00:23:52,740 with the process of it. You know, you've got these 528 00:23:52,740 --> 00:23:54,540 childcare centers who are trying to employ people 529 00:23:54,540 --> 00:23:56,560 and that's coming in as about, like you said, 530 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,760 three quarters of their expenses. And then they're 531 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,680 getting no benefit. So there's not as much, you 532 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,960 know, interest in wanting to work those positions 533 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,480 because it's just not paying well enough. And so, 534 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,120 yeah, you're just hitting dead ends both ways. And 535 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:11,000 I know you mentioned, you know, the states are 536 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,720 trying to offer some incentive programs where it's 537 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,640 like, if you have kids, there's going to be what 538 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,600 you said was like grant funding or something along 539 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,200 those lines. That kind of helps you with that. 540 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,950 Dan Levi: Yep. but it's a program that's running through 541 00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:24,390 Iowa Workforce Development, but we don't know if 542 00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:26,890 that's going to great. You know, they're running 543 00:24:26,890 --> 00:24:29,010 it, they ran it, they extended it another year. So 544 00:24:29,010 --> 00:24:31,130 we've gotten two years out of this program. Maybe 545 00:24:31,130 --> 00:24:35,040 it continues. I don't, you know, nobody knows, for 546 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,120 sure. But so all of this, and we talk about the 547 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:42,480 struggles with this, all this is really for the 548 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,680 purpose of this podcast. The point that we were 549 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,440 trying to drive home is what kind of questions do 550 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:48,560 we ask of our clients? 551 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:49,120 Skyler: Right. 552 00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:53,390 Dan Levi: How do we really understand what they do every 553 00:24:53,390 --> 00:24:57,110 day? I have seen a, work, we haven't been here 554 00:24:57,110 --> 00:24:59,630 that long, Cedar Falls office, but I have seen the 555 00:24:59,630 --> 00:25:02,470 work in the K12 and the medical fields. I've seen 556 00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:06,570 and talked to, particularly, some of our more 557 00:25:06,570 --> 00:25:09,330 seasoned staff and the knowledge they had in their 558 00:25:09,330 --> 00:25:11,570 specific industries that they work. Everybody 559 00:25:11,570 --> 00:25:13,410 works on everything. But when you focus on one 560 00:25:13,410 --> 00:25:16,050 industry more so than another, you end up with an 561 00:25:16,050

--> 00:25:21,500 incredible amount of expertise and understanding 562 00:25:21,580 --> 00:25:25,000 how that works. How do you greet, in a clinic? How 563 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,720 do you greet that patient? Then how do you take 564 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,080 them back? Do some of that height, the weight, 565 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,240 take them back to the room? How far does the staff 566 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,150 have to go to get to sterilization room or some 567 00:25:36,150 --> 00:25:38,270 supplies before they come back? What does that 568 00:25:38,270 --> 00:25:40,310 look like? Where's the charting room? All of those 569 00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:42,030 things. Trying to be as efficient as possible. 570 00:25:42,190 --> 00:25:45,950 Space. That's the level of detail. If we want to 571 00:25:45,950 --> 00:25:49,190 be really good architects. M. If we want our 572 00:25:49,190 --> 00:25:51,590 projects obviously to be pretty, but also to be 573 00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:55,930 incredibly functional, to be so well planned out, 574 00:25:56,730 --> 00:26:00,239 that our clients are just excited to have us on 575 00:26:00,239 --> 00:26:02,760 projects and we get incredible referrals because 576 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,000 again, not only are they pretty, they are also 577 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,520 that efficient. Because we understand their 578 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,560 industry, we understand their needs, their 579 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,480 desires, their priorities. 580 00:26:13,690 --> 00:26:16,130 Dan Levi: Their challenges. Right. Every industry has some 581 00:26:16,130 --> 00:26:18,010 challenges at some point. But the better we 582 00:26:18,010 --> 00:26:20,850 understand those, then the better designers, the 583 00:26:20,850 --> 00:26:24,150 better architects, the better, programmers we can 584 00:26:24,150 --> 00:26:28,650 be and provide even more added value, to our 585 00:26:28,650 --> 00:26:29,090 clients. 586 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:30,300 Dan Levi: Through our work. 587 00:26:30,620 --> 00:26:33,220 Skyler: Absolutely. I think people miss that a lot. I 588 00:26:33,220 --> 00:26:35,020 think people hear architects and they think 589 00:26:35,740 --> 00:26:37,590 sometimes, that it's sort of a middleman 590 00:26:37,590 --> 00:26:39,910 situation. You know, it's the people that throw a 591 00:26:39,910 --> 00:26:43,030 design together for this facility that I want, but 592 00:26:43,030 --> 00:26:45,110 like, who's actually building it, you know, and 593 00:26:45,110 --> 00:26:46,710 things along those lines, like, why can't we just 594 00:26:46,710 --> 00:26:49,070 cookie cutter this and, and slap it down and put 595 00:26:49,070 --> 00:26:50,990 it on the land. But the reality of the situation 596 00:26:50,990 --> 00:26:53,510 is, and I think if there's one thing for sure that 597 00:26:53,510 --> 00:26:55,590 you've really emphasized, is the fact of how much 598 00:26:55,590 --> 00:26:59,030 we're helping these facilities to lower their 599 00:26:59,030 --> 00:27:03,660 expenses to become more efficient. Like, yes, we 600 00:27:03,660 --> 00:27:06,170 make things look nice. We definitely do that. we 601 00:27:06,170 --> 00:27:08,250 definitely strive to make a facility look 602 00:27:08,250 --> 00:27:10,650 beautiful and aesthetically pleasing. But there's 603 00:27:10,650 --> 00:27:13,370 also the other side of it too, of bringing down 604 00:27:13,370 --> 00:27:17,010 your, your expenses to make your facility function 605 00:27:17,010 --> 00:27:19,700 better and to, I don't know, bring more value to 606 00:27:19,700 --> 00:27:21,700 you as, as the, the clients. 607 00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:24,260 Dan Levi: Absolutely. And this, this is for all industries, 608 00:27:24,340 --> 00:27:26,500 right? I mean, absolutely. Focusing on child care 609 00:27:26,500 --> 00:27:28,300 and it's a lot of fun. We, we have a lot of 610 00:27:28,300 --> 00:27:30,020 experience with it. And so I, you know, and I'm 611 00:27:30,020 --> 00:27:32,400 passionate about child care. So this is fun to 612 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,920 talk about. We do a lot of other opposite end of 613 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,160 the spectrum from a client base. We've got a lot 614 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,040 of industrial clients and we've had clients come 615 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,480 to us and say, hey, I need a 50,000 square foot 616 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:42,880 box. 617 00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:43,760 Skyler: Right. 618 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,760 Dan Levi: Contractor says, you know, 80ft wide, clear span 619 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,690 is the most efficient I could get. Oh, okay. I'm 620 00:27:50,690 --> 00:27:55,130 not a process engineer. Right. But indulge me. Can 621 00:27:55,130 --> 00:27:57,290 I do a tour of your existing factory? Could you 622 00:27:57,290 --> 00:27:59,730 show me what your process of building your widget 623 00:28:00,130 --> 00:28:02,410 looks like? Where do you raw materials come in? 624 00:28:02,410 --> 00:28:04,210 How much staging area do you need for those 625 00:28:04,210 --> 00:28:06,930 products? How do those project products get moved 626 00:28:06,930 --> 00:28:10,800 to a certain, assembly or fabrication line before 627 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,080 they move to paint? Where do you put paint then? 628 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,200 How do you wrap your product? How do you, how does 629 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,560 it get shipped out? Do we need a linear building 630 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,480 where we come in one end and out the other? Do you 631 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,360 want a U shaped facility where, where the product 632 00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:25,280 comes in, it does a U comes back out. So my 633 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,560 loading docks and my receiving docs are next to 634 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,570 each other. Understanding the product that they 635 00:28:30,570 --> 00:28:34,090 make and the process they go through to

receive 636 00:28:34,090 --> 00:28:37,690 good raw materials, to process those materials and 637 00:28:37,690 --> 00:28:40,450 then to package and send out the raw materials. 638 00:28:40,610 --> 00:28:45,330 Understanding that process makes us, it puts us in 639 00:28:45,330 --> 00:28:47,610 a position to be better architects, to provide 640 00:28:47,690 --> 00:28:51,370 greater service, better value to the customer. 641 00:28:52,410 --> 00:28:54,850 Because we understood their process, we asked the 642 00:28:54,850 --> 00:28:57,410 questions and we got to understand them rather 643 00:28:57,410 --> 00:29:00,600 than assuming what they want and that they'd 644 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,000 already have it worked out. It amazes me how many 645 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,640 people, regardless of industry, that we will ask 646 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,960 these probing questions and they won't either have 647 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,280 answers at all or they'll have poor answers. They 648 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,920 don't know. They haven't ever questioned what they 649 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,800 do, how they do it, why they do it that way. And 650 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,880 when we just ask them simple questions, can you 651 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:22,760 explain that to me? Can you educate me on your 652 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,440 process? And then you ask that simple question? 653 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,070 Right. Why? Powerful question, why do you do it 654 00:29:29,070 --> 00:29:32,310 that way? Let me understand this better so that I 655 00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:35,510 can provide you a better program, a better design, 656 00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:41,190 a better layout. And that kind of intimate 657 00:29:41,190 --> 00:29:44,830 relationship with a client makes us better 658 00:29:44,830 --> 00:29:45,590 architects. 659 00:29:45,830 --> 00:29:46,550 Skyler: Absolutely. 660 00:29:46,550 --> 00:29:47,270 Dan Levi: Absolutely. 661 00:29:47,270 --> 00:29:49,870 Skyler: That is crazy that like people are asking 662 00:29:49,870 --> 00:29:52,510 themselves that question. Right. What can I do to 663 00:29:52,510 --> 00:29:55,230 be making our processes more efficient? And maybe 664 00:29:55,230 --> 00:29:57,820 it's because they don't see it from a, ah, the 665 00:29:57,820 --> 00:30:00,180 space that I'm in standpoint. Right. Maybe that's 666 00:30:00,260 --> 00:30:00,900 the beauty. 667 00:30:00,980 --> 00:30:02,740 Dan Levi: Yeah, they get comfortable, ah, they get 668 00:30:02,740 --> 00:30:05,620 comfortable with their process, it's working. And 669 00:30:06,340 --> 00:30:08,300 they don't question their own process, they don't 670 00:30:08,300 --> 00:30:11,780 critique their own work, they don't ask those 671 00:30:11,780 --> 00:30:13,540 questions because we all get comfortable. It's 672 00:30:13,540 --> 00:30:15,900 human nature. And so when we come in, it's our 673 00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:18,060 opportunity to maybe shake things up a little bit. 674 00:30:18,060 --> 00:30:20,620 We're not trying to blow the world up, but it's 675 00:30:20,620 --> 00:30:24,940 okay to ask questions, it's okay to question, in a 676 00:30:24,940 --> 00:30:27,660 manner that comes across as us just trying to get 677 00:30:27,660 --> 00:30:31,660 educated by our client. We're not telling them 678 00:30:31,660 --> 00:30:33,700 what they're doing is wrong, we're not implying 679 00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:35,660 what they're doing is wrong. We're just asking 680 00:30:35,660 --> 00:30:37,260 these questions so we can make sure that we are 681 00:30:37,260 --> 00:30:40,220 providing them something that is as efficient as 682 00:30:40,220 --> 00:30:43,620 possible. Because again, we want to be known as 683 00:30:43,620 --> 00:30:46,420 architects that are providing value at all levels, 684 00:30:46,900 --> 00:30:49,910 pre design, design, and construction. We want to 685 00:30:49,910 --> 00:30:53,020 add that value to or our clients. that puts us in 686 00:30:53,020 --> 00:30:55,700 a position, separates us from our competition. 687 00:30:56,020 --> 00:30:58,050 Skyler: We have pride in our work and we want to be able 688 00:30:58,050 --> 00:31:01,290 to help them by showcasing just how capable that 689 00:31:01,290 --> 00:31:06,329 we can be and how much we can help. Awesome. I 690 00:31:06,329 --> 00:31:08,690 love it. That's awesome. That's awesome. And it's 691 00:31:08,690 --> 00:31:11,010 so good to, you know, kind of verbalize it too. 692 00:31:11,010 --> 00:31:13,130 You know, sometimes we don't always get to sort of 693 00:31:13,130 --> 00:31:15,850 look inwardly and see just how much we not to toot 694 00:31:15,850 --> 00:31:17,930 our own horn or anything, but how much we can 695 00:31:17,930 --> 00:31:20,090 offer to our clients and how much we can help our 696 00:31:20,090 --> 00:31:21,770 clients. So it's nice to be able to kind of look 697 00:31:21,770 --> 00:31:24,810 at things from a standpoint, ah, of what we've 698 00:31:24,810 --> 00:31:26,930 done. Right. What we've created, how we've helped 699 00:31:26,930 --> 00:31:28,810 businesses and how we've helped childcare 700 00:31:28,810 --> 00:31:31,459 facilities, to become more Efficient to bring down 701 00:31:31,459 --> 00:31:34,740 costs, to be more beneficial for the staff that 702 00:31:34,740 --> 00:31:36,620 are working there and things along those lines. So 703 00:31:36,620 --> 00:31:38,300 it is really cool to be able to kind of take a 704 00:31:38,300 --> 00:31:40,300 step back and hear that and see that. 705 00:31:40,300 --> 00:31:42,300 Dan Levi: We'Re only going to be successful in that process 706 00:31:43,230 --> 00:31:44,910 if we ask those probing questions, right? 707 00:31:44,910 --> 00:31:47,510 Absolutely. If we don't walk into another K12, we 708 00:31:47,510 --> 00:31:49,230 don't walk into another clinic, we don't walk into 709 00:31:49,230 --> 00:31:53,350 another child care and assume we've already

got 710 00:31:53,350 --> 00:31:53,950 the answers. 711 00:31:54,270 --> 00:31:54,670 Skyler: Right. 712 00:31:54,670 --> 00:31:57,710 Dan Levi: It's okay to question. It's okay for us to learn 713 00:31:58,030 --> 00:32:00,990 every project, learn something new. And I know 714 00:32:00,990 --> 00:32:03,510 sometimes it feels like we do just tear the COVID 715 00:32:03,510 --> 00:32:06,480 off, slap a new one on and push it up. that's easy 716 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,890 to do. Right. But are we bringing value to that 717 00:32:09,890 --> 00:32:13,330 client? Are we setting ourselves apart from their 718 00:32:13,330 --> 00:32:15,730 opportunity to hire someone else? 719 00:32:16,770 --> 00:32:17,330 Skyler: Absolutely. 720 00:32:17,730 --> 00:32:19,850 Dan Levi: Every opportunity that we have to get in front of 721 00:32:19,850 --> 00:32:23,290 a client is an opportunity to either succeed or to 722 00:32:23,290 --> 00:32:25,530 allow the door to be cracked open a little bit for 723 00:32:25,530 --> 00:32:28,650 our competition to get in there. And so making 724 00:32:28,650 --> 00:32:31,570 sure that we are trying to provide exemplary 725 00:32:31,890 --> 00:32:34,770 customer service. And that doesn't mean how fast 726 00:32:34,770 --> 00:32:37,490 we turn out drawings, it doesn't mean how few 727 00:32:37,490 --> 00:32:39,250 change orders we have. These are important things. 728 00:32:40,340 --> 00:32:43,420 But if we want to be known as a firm that values 729 00:32:43,420 --> 00:32:46,060 our own work because of the effort we put in, we 730 00:32:46,060 --> 00:32:48,460 do not want to compete on a dollar basis. There's 731 00:32:48,460 --> 00:32:50,620 always a Walmart out there, an entity that's 732 00:32:50,620 --> 00:32:51,700 willing to go lower. 733 00:32:51,860 --> 00:32:52,420 Skyler: Yikes. 734 00:32:52,980 --> 00:32:55,939 Dan Levi: Let them have it. Yeah. We want to be a firm that 735 00:32:55,939 --> 00:32:59,380 is confident in our ability to provide incredible 736 00:32:59,380 --> 00:33:02,460 value because of the great service we provide. And 737 00:33:02,460 --> 00:33:05,140 that means speed, that means communicating well. 738 00:33:05,470 --> 00:33:07,950 But it also means understanding our clients and 739 00:33:07,950 --> 00:33:11,230 providing a layout or design, be it aesthetic or 740 00:33:11,390 --> 00:33:13,960 more practical from an efficiency standpoint, it 741 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,880 means providing that level of service as well in 742 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,360 that or a level of service in that particular 743 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:20,480 arena as well. 744 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,360 Skyler: Absolutely, absolutely. Efficiency and quality, 745 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,200 not just efficiency. 746 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,480 Dan Levi: Yeah, they're not mutually exclusive. These are 747 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,840 separate items. And we need to hit all of those 748 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,910 buttons, for every client every time. And when we 749 00:33:32,910 --> 00:33:35,339 get complacent and lazy, that's when we lose our 750 00:33:35,339 --> 00:33:37,979 opportunity to show the value. And then it opens 751 00:33:37,979 --> 00:33:39,859 the door to allow competition to come in. 752 00:33:40,099 --> 00:33:43,659 Skyler: Absolutely. Exactly. Exactly. So, and obviously, 753 00:33:43,659 --> 00:33:45,859 like you had mentioned before, we have, you guys 754 00:33:45,859 --> 00:33:48,179 have put together that whole setup of that 755 00:33:48,179 --> 00:33:50,339 software where we can, like, plug stuff in and, 756 00:33:50,660 --> 00:33:52,719 get the key details. Because again, even within 757 00:33:52,719 --> 00:33:54,639 childcare, everything is different. Every single 758 00:33:54,639 --> 00:33:56,159 childcare center is different. They're not the 759 00:33:56,159 --> 00:33:59,180 same. and so it's, it's really cool being able to, 760 00:33:59,180 --> 00:34:01,740 to have that and to have the ability to really 761 00:34:01,740 --> 00:34:04,061 customize everything that we do for each client 762 00:34:04,061 --> 00:34:06,621 that we're doing it for to maximize that quality. 763 00:34:06,781 --> 00:34:09,381 And then we, we do the, we just are generally 764 00:34:09,381 --> 00:34:11,861 efficient people. So we try to, you know, upkeep 765 00:34:11,861 --> 00:34:13,181 that as well. 766 00:34:13,181 --> 00:34:13,901 Dan Levi: There you go. 767 00:34:14,141 --> 00:34:16,381 Skyler: Awesome. Fantastic. Well, is there anything that I 768 00:34:16,381 --> 00:34:18,271 missed, Dan, that you would, you had mentioned to 769 00:34:18,271 --> 00:34:18,391 me. 770 00:34:18,391 --> 00:34:20,981 Dan Levi: But I think we covered child care. Obviously we 771 00:34:20,981 --> 00:34:23,451 got into some in depth stuff on childcare and how 772 00:34:23,451 --> 00:34:27,371 complicated. Even though it's just a box, it's a 773 00:34:27,371 --> 00:34:30,461 complicated little, little monster. pun intended. 774 00:34:31,661 --> 00:34:35,431 it's a tough industry to design for. from a cost 775 00:34:35,431 --> 00:34:38,391 standpoint, once you've done it, you know, you 776 00:34:38,551 --> 00:34:41,271 understand quality of care. And when you hire, 777 00:34:41,271 --> 00:34:43,351 when you have consultants that help you understand 778 00:34:43,671 --> 00:34:45,861 a day to day process and what a teacher actually 779 00:34:45,861 --> 00:34:47,861 does in the classroom and how different that is 780 00:34:47,861 --> 00:34:50,801 from K12, you, understand that process. It allows 781 00:34:50,801 --> 00:34:54,221 you to be a better design team. but then taking 782 00:34:54,221 --> 00:34:56,821 that globally with all of the projects we work on 783 00:34:57,141 --> 00:35:00,741 and making sure that we understand fully our 784 00:35:00,741 --> 00:35:03,621 client's day to day operation, what it takes and 785 00:35:03,621 --> 00:35:07,141 what are their desires. does

the service they, or 786 00:35:07,141 --> 00:35:09,021 the process they have work really well? They don't 787 00:35:09,021 --> 00:35:10,981 want to change it, they just want it to get bigger 788 00:35:10,981 --> 00:35:13,141 or they don't want to modify it in any substantial 789 00:35:13,141 --> 00:35:14,741 way. Great. Then we need to understand that 790 00:35:14,741 --> 00:35:17,021 process inside now. And if they don't or they're 791 00:35:17,021 --> 00:35:19,261 open to it, then it's our job to ask those 792 00:35:19,261 --> 00:35:23,081 questions and to lead that conversation, to try to 793 00:35:23,081 --> 00:35:25,881 extract that information from them so that then we 794 00:35:25,881 --> 00:35:29,681 can propose a new design, a new efficiency, a new 795 00:35:29,681 --> 00:35:32,721 product for them that makes whatever they're doing 796 00:35:33,201 --> 00:35:34,321 even better. 797 00:35:34,801 --> 00:35:38,481 Skyler: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Heighten their 798 00:35:38,561 --> 00:35:40,591 inevitable product. We want to make it the best 799 00:35:40,591 --> 00:35:41,631 that it can possibly be. 800 00:35:41,791 --> 00:35:44,271 Dan Levi: We want them to walk away and say, wow, this 801 00:35:44,351 --> 00:35:47,591 changed how you run. This changed our profit 802 00:35:47,591 --> 00:35:50,251 margin. This changed satisfaction of employees. 803 00:35:50,571 --> 00:35:53,371 This changed all satisfactions of our customers. 804 00:35:53,451 --> 00:35:56,771 It. We want to hear that when we go back and do 805 00:35:56,771 --> 00:35:58,131 that one year review, Right? 806 00:35:58,131 --> 00:35:58,731 Skyler: Absolutely. 807 00:35:58,731 --> 00:36:00,531 Dan Levi: Those are the conversations that we should be 808 00:36:00,531 --> 00:36:01,691 striving to hear every time. 809 00:36:01,931 --> 00:36:04,371 Skyler: Absolutely. The kids are loving it. They love the 810 00:36:04,371 --> 00:36:06,211 space and everything in it. So. Absolutely. 811 00:36:06,211 --> 00:36:06,731 Dan Levi: And we're not. 812 00:36:07,531 --> 00:36:09,411 Skyler: Yeah, exactly. And we're not bankrupt. We're still 813 00:36:09,411 --> 00:36:13,131 going. So that's also very important. The money's 814 00:36:13,131 --> 00:36:14,811 got to flow at the bottom, bottom line. The 815 00:36:14,811 --> 00:36:17,131 money's got to flow. Unfortunately, that is Always 816 00:36:17,131 --> 00:36:19,481 kind of a key factor, but. Awesome. Well, Dan, 817 00:36:19,481 --> 00:36:21,121 thank you so much for, for sitting down and 818 00:36:21,121 --> 00:36:23,401 talking to me about childcare, explaining to me 819 00:36:23,401 --> 00:36:24,961 the difference. That was one thing I had meant, to 820 00:36:24,961 --> 00:36:26,761 ask you the last time when I was up there in Cedar 821 00:36:26,761 --> 00:36:28,441 Falls is like, I remember you kept saying, you 822 00:36:28,441 --> 00:36:30,441 said childcare, make sure you say childcare. And I 823 00:36:30,441 --> 00:36:32,401 was like, I should have asked him why I should 824 00:36:32,401 --> 00:36:34,400 have given. Gotten it then. But I guess this made 825 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,441 the perfect opportunity so that those that are 826 00:36:36,441 --> 00:36:38,331 listening will also be able to, discover the 827 00:36:38,331 --> 00:36:38,931 difference as well. 828 00:36:38,931 --> 00:36:39,291 Dan Levi: So. 829 00:36:39,371 --> 00:36:41,571 Skyler: But yeah, thank you so much for taking the time 830 00:36:41,571 --> 00:36:43,131 out of your day to explain everything to us and 831 00:36:43,131 --> 00:36:45,251 give us a. I know this is, you know, a very basic 832 00:36:45,251 --> 00:36:47,651 rundown. You've given us some awesome detail and 833 00:36:47,651 --> 00:36:49,291 I'm sure, you know, we could probably talk all 834 00:36:49,291 --> 00:36:51,251 day. I know you've gone as far as to like, 835 00:36:51,251 --> 00:36:54,411 campaign for the childcare industry and everything 836 00:36:54,411 --> 00:36:57,111 like that. So, thank you for your work. To try to 837 00:36:57,111 --> 00:36:59,591 like, help fix this industry that's obviously got 838 00:36:59,591 --> 00:37:00,801 some flaws that need to be, 839 00:37:00,751 --> 00:37:02,561 Dan Levi: I don't know about fixing it. We're, we're doing 840 00:37:02,561 --> 00:37:06,151 our, we're doing our part. and we have had an 841 00:37:06,151 --> 00:37:08,831 opportunity to, you know, to speak to this, this 842 00:37:08,831 --> 00:37:11,471 industry in this issue. And a lot of interesting, 843 00:37:11,571 --> 00:37:15,311 arenas, throughout communities, state legislators, 844 00:37:15,521 --> 00:37:18,871 actually congressional, subcommittee in D.C. 845 00:37:19,111 --> 00:37:21,431 we've, had an opportunity to have a. To really try 846 00:37:21,431 --> 00:37:24,981 to, increase the rhetoric in this particular, 847 00:37:25,371 --> 00:37:29,691 area, and really lobby for the industry being seen 848 00:37:29,691 --> 00:37:33,221 as, a profession. These are not babysitters. They 849 00:37:33,221 --> 00:37:36,681 are teachers. learning starts at birth. It does 850 00:37:36,681 --> 00:37:39,401 not start at kindergarten or pre K or whatever it 851 00:37:39,401 --> 00:37:42,241 is. And so we need to understand that these are 852 00:37:42,241 --> 00:37:44,441 professionals. They need to be thought of as such. 853 00:37:44,521 --> 00:37:47,411 They need to be treated as such. Our industry in, 854 00:37:47,671 --> 00:37:49,991 childcare needs to be thought of as more than 855 00:37:49,991 --> 00:37:53,791 babysitting. We are constantly pushing for those, 856 00:37:53,931 --> 00:37:56,471 in the industry to be, seen as the professionals 857 00:37:56,471 --> 00:37:56,871 they are. 858 00:37:57,111 --> 00:37:59,881 Skyler: Absolutely. my one and a half year old, he is 859 00:37:59,881 --> 00:38:03,241 absorbing everything. And so, yes, I don't want. 860 00:38:03,241 --> 00:38:06,211 It's not just here to take my kid and keep an eye 861 00:38:06,211 --> 00:38:08,131 on him. He's learning. He's learning everything 862 00:38:08,131 --> 00:38:09,731 that's around him. And I want a good environment 863 00:38:09,891 --> 00:38:12,971 when he's. He's learning. So, yes, no, completely 864 00:38:12,971 --> 00:38:16,211 agree. Absolutely. 100%. So awesome. Well, thank 865 00:38:16,211 --> 00:38:18,411 you again, Dan. Really appreciate it. And of 866 00:38:18,411 --> 00:38:19,931 course, for those listening. Thank you for 867 00:38:19,931 --> 00:38:21,850 listening and checking out another episode of 868 00:38:21,850 --> 00:38:23,971 Laying the Foundation. If you'd like to find out 869 00:38:23,971 --> 00:38:26,571 more about the Laying the Foundation podcast, you 870 00:38:26,571 --> 00:38:29,171 can head over to any podcast streaming platform 871 00:38:29,251 --> 00:38:32,621 such as Spotify, itunes, Google Podcasts, and 872 00:38:32,621 --> 00:38:35,381 others. You can also find out more about CMBA 873 00:38:35,381 --> 00:38:37,661 architects through social media such as Facebook, 874 00:38:37,981 --> 00:38:40,941 LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. Additionally, 875 00:38:41,021 --> 00:38:42,981 you can head over to the CMBA 876 00:38:42,981 --> 00:38:46,461 website@cmbaarchitects.com if you're an 877 00:38:46,461 --> 00:38:49,421 architecture or design professional or an intern 878 00:38:49,421 --> 00:38:51,661 looking for an internship within those fields, 879 00:38:51,661 --> 00:38:53,581 please be sure to check out our website and click 880 00:38:53,581 --> 00:38:55,741 on the Careers tab to find out more about what 881 00:38:55,741 --> 00:38:58,001 opportunities we offer. This has been another 882 00:38:58,001 --> 00:39:00,281 episode of the Laying the Foundation podcast. 883 00:39:00,281 --> 00:39:01,481 We'll see you next time.