Full Transcript for Building Culture with Brian: Developing People

a conversation across the table like this? 29 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:12,000 Or do we need to help them with some of that interaction ability? 30 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:18,000 Because we sit in front of clients, we sit in front of contractors, we sit in front of consultants all the time, 31 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:24,000 even internally with team members. And we have to be able to have a good, easy conversation. 32 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:29,000 And that takes a skill. It's not something that you develop quickly unless you're, you know, 33 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:33,000 got given ability that you talk to anyone. And we do have a few people like that here at the company. 34 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,000 Very outgoing personalities. Correct. 35 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:44,000 But for those that are leading the company, we need to be aware of our staff members and really just watch 36 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:50,000 and try to take kind of an inventory, if you will, or take stock of who they are, 37 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,000 what they bring to a conversation, and then how can we build them? 38 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:59,000 How can we mentor them? How can we shape them to be the best version of themselves? 39 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:06,000 Not maybe to be like me, but to be the best version of themselves because they bring a unique skill set to everything. 40 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:12,000 So it really takes truly thinking about people, not just the task at hand sitting in front of us at the table, 41 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:20,000 as the leader, we need to be aware of what's happening around in that conversation and that thing that we're talking about as well. 42 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:24,000 Seeking out those hidden talents. Exactly. It's a little challenging. 43 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:36,000 And you don't want to think about people in terms of, hey, they're a tool or a resource because they have absolutely great abilities, 44 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:41,000 knowledge, passion, compassion, empathy, all of those things. 45 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:46,000 And we need to think holistically about the whole person concept, if you will. 46 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:51,000 And how do we help build them? That's our charge as leaders. 47 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,000 Yeah, I was going to say there's a responsibility on both ends, right? 48 00:03:54,000 --> 00:04:00,000 Yeah, for sure. Trying to find somebody to help them grow, but at the same time it requires us to have the patience and the dedication 49 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,000 to find how to help that person grow. So that makes a lot of sense. 50 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:08,000 Definitely. Awesome. So are there any key indicators you guys are looking for? 51 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:17,000 Because like you said, it's kind of tricky to look out across the office and pick out those people that maybe have some potential for leadership 52 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,000 or something along those lines or those hidden talents

that we talked about earlier. 53 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:24,000 Yeah, it's interesting when you, let's say our all staff meeting. 54 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,000 We've got tables of people, right? 55 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:27,000 Right. 56 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,000 And they're very diverse too. 57 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,000 Very diverse. We made that specific the way they were set up. 58 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,000 But you can see who's leading the conversations at the tables. 59 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:43,000 You can also see who's listening to that person leading the conversation. 60 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:50,000 Because funny thing, I heard one time and I'm sure I'm not going to say this correctly. So bear with me. 61 00:04:50,000 --> 00:05:01,000 But, you know, as a leader, if there's no one following me, if there's no one coming behind me, then I'm just a guy out for a walk, right? 62 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:12,000 So I have to have the ability to inspire others to get behind whatever vision or whatever direction that I'm trying to get them to go through words or actions. 63 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:22,000 And you can sort of see the people in the room that have that ability because people want to listen and they truly want to interact and want to understand and maybe help. 64 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,000 Right. 65 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,000 And for those that might not have that ability, what are they missing? Right? 66 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:33,000 Is it the way they present the idea or are they not listening maybe when someone else is? 67 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,000 So then they become like, eh, he's not going to listen to me anyway. 68 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,000 Right. 69 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:43,000 And why would I want to follow when someone, you know, doesn't want to give the way I give, I'm not going to return. 70 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:48,000 And I know that might sound a little weird or petty, but that's just human nature. 71 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:49,000 Absolutely. 72 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:54,000 If someone's not going to listen to me, I'm not going to, you know, listen and be intent on my actions. 73 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,000 Exactly. 74 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,000 They're not giving that same feeling. 75 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:06,000 So I think that's a great way of just watching people and how you interact at a all staff type event or internally at a meeting as well. 76 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,000 And I think that's a great way to really think about what's going on in the company. 77 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,000 And I think that's a great way to think about what's going on in the company. 78 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:18,000 And I think that's a great way to think about what's going on in the company. 79 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:22,000 And I think that's a great way to think about what's going on in the company. 80 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:26,000 And I think that's a great way to think about what's going on in

the company. 81 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,000 And I think that's a great way to think about what's going on in the company. 82 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:36,000 And I think that's a great way to think about what's going on in the company. 83 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:40,000 And I think that's a great way to think about what's going on in the company. 84 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,000 And I think that's a great way to think about what's going on in the company. 85 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,000 And I think that's a great way to think about what's going on in the company. 86 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:52,000 And I think that's a great way to think about what's going on in the company. 87 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:56,000 And I think that's a great way to think about what's going on in the company. 88 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:00,000 And I think you'd have a better response from either a client or a consultant or whatever it may be. 89 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,000 And see if they take that advice. 90 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,000 Also, are they coachable? That's a whole other piece to this. 91 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:12,000 Because some people have a struggle with that. 92 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,000 At all ages, younger and more seasoned employees 93 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,000 that may not have been coachable early on in their lives. 94 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,000 And that's just continued throughout their career. 95 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,000 Bad habits. You have to be coachable. 96 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,000 And I think that's a key indicator if you will. 97 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,000 I'm going back to your original question. 98 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,000 Can you listen well? 99 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,000 Can you truly be intent with your... 100 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,000 Sitting with people and then are you coachable? 101 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,000 Definitely coachable. That's a big issue. 102 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,000 You've got to be willing to learn. 103 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,000 If you're completely unwilling, how can we teach you? 104 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,000 Correct. That makes a lot of sense. 105 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:50,000 So let's say you look out across you during the all staff. 106 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,000 And you see this person. They've got really great leadership. 107 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,000 They're presenting ideas to people. Everybody's listening. 108 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,000 They're having great conversation where they're listening to other people 109 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,000 who are pitching ideas. 110 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,000 And you say, "That person has a lot of potential for leadership. 111 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,000 We want to try to set a pathway for that person." 112 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,000 What does that look like? How do we build the growth pathway, if you will? 113 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,000 Yeah, and it depends on the employee and what their job description

is 114 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,000 or what their role is with the company. 115 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,000 But we have to have opportunities. 116 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,000 We have to think about opportunities that we can place in front of them 117 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,000 to expand and open their wings and fly a little bit. 118 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,000 Right? Push them out of the nest, if you will. 119 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,000 Right. Out of the office, out of the seat. 120 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:33,000 Yeah. So at the all staff, could I stand up and talk for two days? 121 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:37,000 Sure, I could. But why would you want me to do that first? 122 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,000 But we should give opportunities for others to stand up in front 123 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,000 and present and to talk and to show, 124 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,000 "Hey, I've got something to talk about and I want people to get excited about." 125 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:51,000 And it's not comfortable. You have to get out of your comfort zone 126 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,000 when you want to be in a leadership position. 127 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,000 And we have to provide opportunities for that. 128 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,000 At even the smallest level on a project, 129 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:06,000 "Hey, young architect, I would like you to call the consultants 130 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,000 to talk about this issue." 131 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:09,000 Right. 132 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,000 I don't have to do that as the principal all the time. 133 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,000 We could show, we can sit side by side and be in the conversation, 134 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:21,000 but the next time around, "Hey, please call, please get this moving." 135 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:26,000 We have to continue to push them or else we're going to continue to do things for them 136 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,000 for the rest of their career. And that's not what we need. 137 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:33,000 We need self-sufficient self-starters willing to get out there and push. 138 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:34,000 Absolutely. 139 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,000 Again, it doesn't matter if it's an architect, an interior designer, 140 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,000 technician, graphic designer, social media person, whatever it may be, 141 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,000 are you willing to take something and run with it? 142 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,000 Absolutely. 143 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,000 We know that it's not going to be perfect every time, right? 144 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,000 I'm not perfect every time. 145 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,000 I don't claim to be perfect every time. 146 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,000 I know I fail. 147 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,000 But how do you learn from that? 148 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,000 How do we say, "Hey, okay, you did it, happy with it, 149 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,000 but here's some tweaks, here's some modifications 150 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,000 to even be more successful the next time around?" 151 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,000 Exactly. 152 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,000 So we have to-- 153 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,000 Let's build. 154 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,000 Yeah, we have to provide opportunities if we see potential in someone, 155 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,000 which everyone has potential. 156 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:11,000 Oh, yeah. 157 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,000 It just depends on how high they want to go. 158 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:17,000 Right, but we have to provide opportunities for them to spread their wings, 159 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,000 if you will. 160 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:19,000 Yeah, absolutely. 161 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,000 And it's scary. 162 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,000 It is, for sure. 163 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:22,000 From both sides to a certain extent, right? 164 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,000 From the leadership side, I've got to hand off some of this responsibility 165 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,000 to this person who is very unexperienced with it, 166 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,000 and I'm really hoping that they can get this. 167 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:37,000 I'm trusting that they can do it because I've also taken the time to invest in them. 168 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,000 Exactly. 169 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,000 And in the project itself. 170 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:40,000 Yep. 171 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,000 If I had invested some time in that person, 172 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,000 I'm really going to be hesitant to hand off something, 173 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,000 but if I have spent some time, hey, here's my expectations, 174 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,000 here's where I'd like to go with this, 175 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,000 and then watch them along the way, walk along with them, 176 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,000 it's okay to then say, "Okay, you can do this," right, 177 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:58,000 and push them out there. 178 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,000 Yes. 179 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,000 And of course, you're going to have questions as the new person, right, 180 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,000 this young architect or this young designer, 181 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,000 and they're going to be like, "Hey, you know, I don't know how to handle this 182 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,000 or this aspect of this that you've kind of pushed me into." 183 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,000 It helps to have us along, right? 184 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,000 Yes. 185 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,000 Come back, ask those questions. 186 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,000 We asked those questions when I was young. 187 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:20,000 I'm sure I asked many not very intelligent questions sometimes. 188 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:26,000 And the patriarchs of our firm probably rolled their eyes when I asked those questions, right? 189 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,000 But they

didn't know either when they started their career, 190 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,000 so we have to be willing to sit down and say, 191 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,000 "Okay, I'll answer that question. 192 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,000 I'm here to help." 193 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:41,000 And over time, again, build that knowledge within an employee, 194 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:46,000 because ultimately, and people my age probably don't want to think about it, 195 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,000 ultimately, I'm building the person that's going to take my job someday, right? 196 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,000 Exactly. 197 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,000 I'm not going to be here forever. 198 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,000 Someone, this is a legacy firm. 199 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,000 We want it to continue, so we have to build the bench. 200 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,000 Yes. 201 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:02,000 And continue to push them to get better and lead in the future. 202 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,000 Absolutely, absolutely. 203 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:04,000 Yeah? 204 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:05,000 It makes a lot of sense. 205 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:09,000 It's kind of a lot of what Adam has talked about when we did his podcast episode about mentorship, 206 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,000 and he talked about walking alongside. 207 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:13,000 It's a two-way street. 208 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:18,000 I like to think when you mentioned the bit about saying how you had those same questions 209 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,000 way back in the day, it was kind of a fun opportunity for reflection, right? 210 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,000 When you sit down with the young architect and they say those questions, 211 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,000 and now it's your opportunity to be like, 212 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,000 "I remember how someone responded to me way back when." 213 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,000 Right. 214 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,000 And then they'll respond to this person to give them the best information and the best, 215 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:36,000 again, push forward. 216 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,000 Yeah, and we have a choice to make. 217 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:44,000 If we weren't helped early in our career, we still have a choice to make, 218 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,000 am I willing to help that next person behind me? 219 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,000 Exactly. 220 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:52,000 And I think that's really the key piece as you develop as a professional is, 221 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,000 "Hey, who's coming behind me? 222 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:55,000 How can I help?" 223 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,000 Right. 224 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,000 Even though you may not have been given the help early on in your career. 225 00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,000 Exactly. 226 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,000 You don't have to continue in that path. 227 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,000 Break the mold and help someone else push us forward. 228 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:04,000 Absolutely. 229 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:05,000 Absolutely. 230 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,000 Be the change you want to see. 231 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,000 Exactly. 232 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,000 Exactly. 233 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:10,000 Awesome. 234 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,000 Fantastic. 235 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:20,000 [music] 236 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,000 So you've got these pairings. 237 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,000 You've got a mentor and mentee helping to lead that mentee down the path, 238 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,000 pushing them out of the nest, like you said, 239 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:33,000 letting them spread their wings and do new things to help build them up. 240 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:37,000 One thing that you had mentioned in sort of the overview for this episode was, 241 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,000 obviously, we want to review, right? 242 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,000 Yeah. 243 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,000 We want to sit down with them and say, "Let's look at how things went. 244 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,000 Let's look at how we can do things forward, how successes, wins, losses, 245 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,000 kind of things along those lines." 246 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:52,000 And I know in your information that you had kind of come up with, 247 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:57,000 you said there might be maybe a way to shift away from sort of the traditional 248 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,000 annual reviews and doing sort of more of a micro coaching. 249 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,000 What is micro coaching? 250 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:03,000 What does that mean? 251 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:04,000 Yeah. 252 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:10,000 So to me, we really need to be cognizant of giving feedback really regularly. 253 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:11,000 That makes sense. 254 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:12,000 At the time. 255 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:13,000 Yeah. 256 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,000 Because if you even wait a week or two weeks, the information is kind of, 257 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,000 you know, started to stale, we'll say, and people have forgotten exactly what 258 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,000 happened. 259 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,000 But if you leave a meeting and you saw an opportunity to give some feedback in 260 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,000 the car on the drive home, right, have the conversation. 261 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,000 To me, that's micro coaching. 262 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:35,000 It's giving the time at the time, giving the feedback at the time when it's 263 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,000 needed and not three, six, nine months later. 264 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,000 Absolutely. 265 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:44,000 An annual review is not what, it should be just a, hey, a recap of the year. 266 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,000 Here's what happened. 267 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,000 It's great. 268 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:51,000 I see this, this, and this,

what occurred in your year and then positioning 269 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:52,000 for the next year. 270 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:53,000 Right. 271 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,000 So, you know, we have feedback sessions on a regular basis. 272 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,000 If it's, you know, after a meeting internally, externally, whatever it may be, 273 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,000 or every couple of weeks, just have a quick check-in. 274 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,000 Five minutes is all you need to say, hey, how can I help? 275 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:07,000 What questions do you have? 276 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,000 Yeah. 277 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,000 Hey, here's what I'm seeing. 278 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:10,000 It doesn't take that much. 279 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,000 No. 280 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:16,000 We get bogged down in daily life, emails and phone calls and project requirements. 281 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,000 But if we're not slowing down to say, hey, how can I help? 282 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,000 How can I give that feedback? 283 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,000 That's just setting other people up for failure. 284 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,000 Absolutely. 285 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:26,000 And we need to be there for them. 286 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,000 Absolutely. 287 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,000 Yeah. 288 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,000 And again, Adam talked about this a lot in the mentoring podcast where he was working 289 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,000 with the interns. 290 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:36,000 He'd take them to like job sites and meetings and usually, you know, we have projects that 291 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:37,000 span out pretty far. 292 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,000 So sometimes you're in the car for a little while. 293 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,640 It's a perfect opportunity driving back from that project to say, would you guys think? 294 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:45,000 What questions do you have? 295 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,000 Right. 296 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,000 You know, what did a client say that maybe you're like, what did that even mean? 297 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,000 And he said, I mean, it was just a great opportunity. 298 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,000 Every single time the interns always had great questions. 299 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,000 They were curious about things and it was a great opportunity to learn. 300 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,000 Yeah. 301 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,000 And as the mentor, you should be potentially learning also from now on. 302 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,000 Oh, absolutely. 303 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:04,000 Oh yeah. 304 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:05,000 I didn't think about it that way. 305 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:06,000 I didn't see that detail. 306 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:11,000 Like, oh yeah, you know, some of those two-way streets, as you said, yeah, we need to be learning 307 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:12,000 up and down for sure. 308 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,000 It's not just one way. 309 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,000 Absolutely. 310 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,000 Yeah. 311 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,000 So obviously we're trying to develop what's probably being referred to as a learning 312 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:20,000 culture, right? 313 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,000 We're trying to develop that. 314 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,000 And sometimes people might use training events. 315 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:32,000 So, I mean, they're not necessarily at odds per se, but kind of what is the versus there, 316 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,000 right? 317 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:34,000 What is like one versus the other? 318 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,000 Yeah. 319 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:36,000 What are they looking at? 320 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:42,640 I think the day-to-day learning that we have on projects and working with clients, that's 321 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,000 one style of learning. 322 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:46,000 Okay. 323 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,320 So, the training events, let's say, if it's a class that we're doing on Revit or we're 324 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:56,600 doing on Excel, maybe, who knows, we've thought about a few things, or CMBAU even. 325 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:01,160 Those are more a one-directional type of learning. 326 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:07,440 Yes, there's maybe some opportunity for questions at the end, but you may not be comfortable 327 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,240 asking those questions in the big group. 328 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:14,720 So, we need to have the day-to-day learning that we're doing supplemented by the bigger 329 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:15,720 group learning. 330 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:16,720 Sure. 331 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,600 As well, because there are times when we need to get the message out to everyone. 332 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,800 We need to have the direct conversation with everyone at one time and not just individually 333 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:28,080 because it will never get the message out if it takes forever to get through the company. 334 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:29,480 We've got like 60-some employees. 335 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:30,480 Yeah, six locations. 336 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:31,480 It was quite a while. 337 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,320 Yeah, a lot of driving. 338 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:39,240 But yeah, I think it's a variety of learning opportunities for people. 339 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,880 And then being willing to learn every day, right? 340 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,480 Being open to learning every day. 341 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:51,560 We talked about, before we started here, the history channel stuff that we talked about. 342 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,760 I love learning every day, learning about why did something happen back then and how 343 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,640 it changed our lives. 344 00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,040 It's no different every day here. 345 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:03,960 It's just

the little tweaks and adjustments that we can make to make our clients' projects 346 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:10,760 better, our work better, our processes that we use better, just for a general, better overall 347 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:11,760 experience. 348 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,040 Absolutely, absolutely, 100%. 349 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:19,480 So another thing that you had mentioned, kind of going into this sort of specific look into 350 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:24,960 ways that we can be mentoring people and developing people, obviously, as is the name of the episode. 351 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:29,200 You had mentioned, you have a lot of military background, obviously. 352 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,080 And you had mentioned what's known as ACE, which is the Agile Combat Employment. 353 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:35,080 Oh, yeah. 354 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,880 And you mentioned how it can kind of create multi-capable teams. 355 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,120 First of all, what is this? 356 00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:43,400 Because I don't have a military background, so I'm really curious. 357 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:50,040 Yeah, so historically, and it's shipped it over time, but historically, and I'm going 358 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:51,520 to speak from the Air Force perspective. 359 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:52,520 I'm not in the Army. 360 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:53,520 I'm not in the Marines. 361 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:54,520 Sure. 362 00:18:54,520 --> 00:19:01,120 We are trained in a certain job function, a job role, and that's called my AFSC, Air Force 363 00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:02,120 Specialty Code. 364 00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:03,120 Okay. 365 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:05,800 So I have a function that I'm trained in, and that's my role. 366 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:06,960 That's my job. 367 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:16,800 Well, what the Air Force is learning and implementing is the ACE, the Agile Combat Employment, or 368 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:26,080 that methodology or that thought process is, Airmen, if we are deployed somewhere, we may 369 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,880 not have every specialty with us. 370 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:29,880 Right. 371 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:35,760 So we need to be Agile to be able to do multiple job functions when needed. 372 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:42,200 If something presents itself, if I need to work on a vehicle, but I am a personalist, 373 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,680 which is someone in admin, and can I do that? 374 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:46,680 Right. 375 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,040 Is there some basic things I need to learn to get that vehicle working? 376 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,720 I mean, I'm taking an extreme example. 377 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:59,160 But that Airmen should be able to do some basic things with that piece of equipment to help 378 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:05,720 get things moving, even if I'm just trained as a personalist or a cook, first of all. 379 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,080 And those types of things. 380 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:13,560 So here, I would say we need to be well-versed in multiple facets of our job. 381 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,800 We've got drawing, design right up front. 382 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,400 We've got the actual production documents that we put together. 383 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:21,800 We have our specifications. 384 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:22,880 We've got contracts. 385 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:29,360 We've got a whole list of things, the CMBA curriculum that we cover. 386 00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:35,200 And we need to be well-versed in those so that if, let's say, a situation presents itself 387 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,600 and your principle might not be right there, you at least have some knowledge of what's 388 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:40,600 going on. 389 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,400 You could at least use some of your skills to go, "Hey, I think it's going to be this. 390 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:49,040 I need to maybe go back and check, but, Ray, let's get this moving if I have some knowledge." 391 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:56,200 So we need to give some broadness to our education, knowing that we will kind of hone in on certain 392 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:01,560 areas as we develop, if it's healthcare, education, or municipal, whatever industrial 393 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,200 it's a. 394 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,920 But there should be some broad knowledge that we're trying to get to others throughout 395 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:07,920 the company. 396 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,520 And I think our CMBAU really goes with that idea. 397 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:17,920 That platform helps to kind of give that overarching view of how we want people to operate within 398 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,000 CMBA, but general knowledge about the way in which we practice. 399 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,000 Exactly. 400 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,000 Exactly. 401 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,720 And then for those listening, CMBAU being our sort of education platform, series of classes 402 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,440 that cover some of the broader topics within the company. 403 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:32,440 Correct. 404 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,080 Each led by one of the principals. 405 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:38,480 And yeah, sharing a lot of really good information so that we're all on the same page. 406 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,160 We're all speaking the same language to a certain extent, right? 407 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:42,160 Correct. 408 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,600 So even those of us in the marketing department take it and we get to see some of the design 409 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:46,600 side. 410 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,520 And you guys on the design side get to see a little bit in the marketing department or 411 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:50,840 the finance department. 412 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:51,840 Exactly. 413 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:52,840 Exactly. 414 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,240 It's a really

cool way to, like you said, broaden everybody's scope, at least for the basics 415 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,120 so that they have an understanding. 416 00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:02,120 And of course we can work together a lot more efficiently because of that. 417 00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:03,120 Definitely. 418 00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:04,120 There's some commonality there. 419 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:05,120 Absolutely. 420 00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:06,120 Absolutely. 421 00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:12,600 And then so we talked about the sort of more broad topic or broad skill set, right? 422 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,640 Trying to help make sure everybody has those basics. 423 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,400 What about when we want to look at the specialization? 424 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:21,000 I know earlier you mentioned it can be kind of a job by job basis when we pinpoint these 425 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,400 leaders and we want to kind of help them grow. 426 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:29,960 How do we develop those people that have kind of a specialized set of skills, not to sound 427 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:31,960 like Liam Eason from Taken or something. 428 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,800 I have a certain set of skills, yes. 429 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,400 And I will find you. 430 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:36,400 Yes. 431 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:44,120 Yeah, I think when, as leaders, we can see that someone has an innate sense that, hey, 432 00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:48,840 they're speaking the language, they understand it, they just really get it. 433 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:53,920 Then we need to look for opportunities to get them knowledge outside of CNBA. 434 00:22:53,920 --> 00:23:01,360 To me, if it's national conferences or specific educational events, as you mentioned before, 435 00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:07,200 that broadens that even more, gives them a depth that others may not get to in their 436 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,440 career. 437 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:09,440 You have to want that. 438 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,120 Yeah, I was going to say passion is going to be a key element here. 439 00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:13,120 Absolutely. 440 00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:14,120 You have to want it. 441 00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:20,360 And we have some members for sure in our company that love healthcare or love K-12 or love 442 00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:22,560 higher eds, for instance. 443 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:29,400 So we have said, okay, we're willing to invest maybe a little bit more into traveling for 444 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,080 conferences or bringing people in to develop that knowledge. 445 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:38,960 So it's an investment for the company. 446 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:46,240 But for those projects that require that very detailed understanding of, let's say, behavioral 447 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,600 health environment, so that's a good example. 448 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,880 We don't do those every day, but we have some people that really

understand how those get 449 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:58,520 put together and they can speak it at the level of an owner can go, "Oh, yeah, he gets 450 00:23:58,520 --> 00:23:59,520 it. 451 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,020 She gets it." 452 00:24:01,020 --> 00:24:05,800 That just creates a comfort there for us to do the first project or the next 10 projects 453 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,240 for that client. 454 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,320 It's an investment, but it hopefully will pay off in the end with projects that come 455 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:13,320 in. 456 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:14,320 Absolutely. 457 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,680 Yeah, if I'm a very specialized client with a very specialized project and someone comes 458 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,640 in and they can speak that language with me, that's a huge bonus forward. 459 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,440 I can trust that person. 460 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:24,440 Absolutely. 461 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:25,440 Exactly. 462 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:26,600 That makes a lot of sense. 463 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:31,000 One of the last things that you would, or for us to mention, is succession planning. 464 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,240 You've mentioned this before. 465 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,600 We see these leaders and we think, "Hey, it's not even just we want to have people that 466 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,680 are really capable within the company, but somebody that can take over once I retire 467 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,120 or whatever the case." 468 00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:48,240 What are we talking about when it comes to, how do we get them ready for that inevitable 469 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,240 empty seat, I guess you could say? 470 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,440 That's a broad question. 471 00:24:53,440 --> 00:25:03,080 I think we need to push people to not just be one thing within the company. 472 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:08,960 When you're talking potential ownership of a company, you need to think about that a 473 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,080 little differently. 474 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:12,240 We've said this to our principals. 475 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,120 You have two hats that you wear. 476 00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:15,120 Sure. 477 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:19,160 One is your day-to-day principal hat of projects and clients. 478 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,360 Then you have another hat of an owner of a company. 479 00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:29,840 They aren't always aligned because as an owner, you've got expenses that you're worrying about, 480 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,720 what the cost of things are and salaries and benefits and all of that. 481 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,960 On this side, it's more project-based on the principal side. 482 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:45,200 That feeds the ability to pay for all of these things on the expense side. 483 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:52,240 If we want someone to really be positioned for that in the future, we need to push them 484 00:25:52,240

--> 00:25:57,560 to be broad overall, not just one thing. 485 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:03,080 Specialized knowledge will go a long way, but can we broaden it to have them understand 486 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,040 the business side of that specialized knowledge a little bit? 487 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:13,520 That's that investment into that knowledge, let's say on the healthcare side of, "Hey, 488 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:18,120 how does that business work for a hospital or healthcare organization?" 489 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:23,920 I think that changes your mind if I'm not just solely working on a floor plan or a department 490 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,720 layout, whatever it may be, but I'm really thinking about how they function as a business. 491 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,360 I put you in a mindset of how our business might function as well. 492 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:36,520 That broadening helps to develop people overall. 493 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:42,480 Again, back to the leadership piece, people have to want to trust and respect you as a 494 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,240 leader also so that comes with servant leadership. 495 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:47,240 Sure. 496 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:52,520 Humbleness, being willing to take care of others before you. 497 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:53,920 Not everybody's in that mindset. 498 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:54,920 This is true. 499 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,600 As an owner, that's your first thing is to take care of employees. 500 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,880 They're your greatest asset, absolutely your greatest asset. 501 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,800 If we're not doing that, if you're not showing that, then that's going to be a little more 502 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,840 challenging for you to grow to a leadership level, an ownership level. 503 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,480 Definitely an interesting situation where you got to be able to split your brain in 504 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:17,480 chunks in a sense. 505 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:18,480 A little bit. 506 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:19,480 Think very four-dimensionally. 507 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:20,480 Right. 508 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:21,480 Interesting. 509 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:22,480 Interesting. 510 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:27,560 It's complicated for sure, but obviously, yeah, like you said, raising up future leaders 511 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,880 to take over those spots, it's necessary if you want the firm to continue and it's a lot 512 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:37,500 easier, I would imagine, to hire in-house versus trying to bring in leaders or potential 513 00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:39,920 leaders and then show them everything that we do. 514 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:44,080 It's like, well, we could have just had this guy who's been here for the last 10 years. 515 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:45,800 He knows how things work. 516 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,280 We can make him a leader. 517 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:52,280 There's pros to bringing someone up from it within, absolutely, because they have the 518 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,560 knowledge set, they understand the culture, they understand the processes. 519 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,720 There's also pros on the other side of bringing someone from the outside in because maybe we 520 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,720 weren't doing it the way we should be doing it and new thoughts and all of those. 521 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,280 We need new perspective, exactly. 522 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:11,720 But yeah, that trust and respect for someone coming into the company takes time to build. 523 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:12,720 Exactly, yeah. 524 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:18,600 Now, it can be one very quickly if you can show that I'm here for others and not myself 525 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:23,880 through actions and being willing to jump right in and take care of something and showing, 526 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,440 hey, come alongside me. 527 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:26,920 I'm not here to tell you what to do. 528 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,720 I'm here to help you get there and I'm here to show you how I can do it with you. 529 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:36,480 That builds that trust and respect really quickly, but it's more difficult to do that 530 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:37,760 from the outside. 531 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:38,760 Right. 532 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,920 So, it just takes a little more time to do that. 533 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:47,640 But yeah, internal, external, pros, cons both sides, but either way, it's an investment 534 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:52,880 to make sure people can truly understand who you are as a leader, what your motivations 535 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:58,160 are and how you can take care of them in the end ultimately. 536 00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,160 Awesome. 537 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,560 Well, I think we covered just about everything on the list. 538 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:02,880 I really appreciate it, Brian. 539 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,640 Yeah, and we also really delved into an interesting element too of we're talking about developing 540 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,320 people from a leadership standpoint. 541 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,880 Obviously, like I said, you as CEO and you've obviously worked with a lot of the people here, 542 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:18,600 but I think you also touched on a really cool idea of how we can develop our mindsets to 543 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,840 try to be those people that people want to see developed and see that potential inside 544 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:23,840 of. 545 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:24,840 Absolutely. 546 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,000 I know you've mentioned a couple of mindsets, right? 547 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:34,120 Have that listening, have that servant mentality, things along those lines that maybe if we 548 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:39,440 think about it and we focus on that and really put forth some effort to change what we currently 549 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,680 think to move towards those areas. 550 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,120 That will help position people very, very quickly. 551 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:45,120 Absolutely. 552 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:46,120 Awesome. 553 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:47,120 Well, thank you again, Brian. 554 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,560 It's been a great time out of your day to talk to us about developing people. 555 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:50,560 All right. 556 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:51,560 Thanks, Scott. 557 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:52,560 Awesome. 558 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:53,560 Absolutely. 559 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,520 If you'd like to find out more about the Laying the Foundation podcast, you can head over 560 00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:01,960 to any podcast streaming platform such as Spotify, iTunes, Google Podcasts, and others. 561 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:07,240 You can also find out more about CMBA Architects through social media such as Facebook, LinkedIn, 562 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:08,800 Twitter, and Instagram. 563 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:14,520 Additionally, you can head over to the CMBA website at cmbaarchitects.com. 564 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:19,320 If you're an architecture or design professional or an intern looking for an internship within 565 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,040 those fields, please be sure to check out our website and click on the careers tab to 566 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,880 find out more about what opportunities we offer. 567 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,000 This has been another episode of the Laying the Foundation podcast. 568 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:29,840 We'll see you next time. 569 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,420 (gentle music)