TRANSCRIPT 🔗
WEBVTT
00:00.520 --> 00:25.498
[SPEAKER_02]: The main reason why I feel like the current WhatsApp group we have is successful is that we're not creating it as a broadcast channel, we're creating it as an interaction for people to learn from each other and by virtue hopefully we'll make some sales in the community from it because we built that trust with people is really important to maintain the engagement and keep people interested in sharing and learning from other people.
00:27.520 --> 00:34.982
[SPEAKER_00]: your listening to the keep optimizing podcast to increase your traffic improve your conversion rates and grow your profits.
00:37.409 --> 00:38.731
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello and welcome.
00:38.871 --> 00:42.876
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Chloe Thomas, the host of this e-commerce marketing focus podcast.
00:42.936 --> 00:45.279
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're not familiar with our format, well here we go.
00:45.740 --> 00:50.867
[SPEAKER_01]: We release five episode mini series that dive deep into one e-commerce marketing topic.
00:50.947 --> 00:57.696
[SPEAKER_01]: It could be channels like email or SEO or WhatsApp or a big topic like acquisition, retention or analytics.
00:57.676 --> 01:12.617
[SPEAKER_01]: In each episode, new one released on Wednesdays, I interview a different expert to explore the latest advice on making it work for you and then, after each five episodes, many series we take a week off to give you time to take action on what you've learned.
01:13.358 --> 01:20.848
[SPEAKER_01]: But the moment we're spending five episodes exploring a brand new topic, that means we're all about WhatsApp at the moment.
01:20.828 --> 01:26.061
[SPEAKER_01]: The rest of the WhatsApp series is focused on one-on-one WhatsApp communication.
01:26.582 --> 01:28.547
[SPEAKER_01]: The WhatsApp messenger service, basically.
01:28.988 --> 01:36.306
[SPEAKER_01]: But in this episode, we're talking about groups and community and the power of building a community on WhatsApp.
01:36.286 --> 01:44.558
[SPEAKER_01]: WhatsApp is all about customer communications, so we've got a customer communications specialist on who's been experimenting with WhatsApp groups.
01:45.299 --> 01:58.058
[SPEAKER_01]: Partly to grow sales and build strong relationships with the customers in the group, but also to use that group as a way of really getting to understand the customers in order to improve all the rest of the marketing.
01:58.038 --> 02:01.728
[SPEAKER_01]: really fascinating examples coming up from our expert guest.
02:01.748 --> 02:08.445
[SPEAKER_01]: So do make sure you listen right to the end of the episode because you don't want to miss her quickfire inside of tips.
02:08.465 --> 02:13.819
[SPEAKER_01]: And I will also be sharing my take on it all and outlining some other ways we can help you improve all of this.
02:15.925 --> 02:20.390
[SPEAKER_01]: In this episode, I'm Chattie with Customer Communications Expert Alice Brown.
02:20.891 --> 02:29.300
[SPEAKER_01]: Alice is the founder and narrative strategist at 7th Wave Stories, where she helps brands to connect with their customers throughout the customer journey.
02:29.360 --> 02:30.081
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello Alice.
02:30.461 --> 02:31.242
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, Chloe.
02:31.282 --> 02:31.823
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you doing?
02:32.303 --> 02:33.285
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very cool.
02:33.365 --> 02:37.069
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very cool to be interviewing someone who is less than 300 miles away from me.
02:37.689 --> 02:40.853
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, we really, we should have made it in a person thing, shouldn't we?
02:40.833 --> 02:51.670
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't have the technology or the hardware to make that possible, but it's very cool to be interviewing someone who isn't hundreds and hundreds of miles away from me, so very cool to have you on the show.
02:51.710 --> 02:56.157
[SPEAKER_01]: Plus, you've got a great sort of experience and experiments to share with us.
02:56.237 --> 03:02.807
[SPEAKER_01]: So how did you end up getting into WhatsApp groups and communities?
03:03.007 --> 03:07.312
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'll take you back all the way to the start of my, I guess, career.
03:07.372 --> 03:14.601
[SPEAKER_02]: And I thought it was a surf instructor and I was helping people every day overcome obstacles and hesitations.
03:15.002 --> 03:21.029
[SPEAKER_02]: Why they were scared to get in the water or make a tith of themselves falling over catching bigger waves.
03:21.089 --> 03:24.433
[SPEAKER_02]: It's quite, you know, could be dangerous if we take them out of big conditions.
03:25.134 --> 03:30.921
[SPEAKER_02]: And as my role
03:30.901 --> 03:43.736
[SPEAKER_02]: I was talking to customers and doing a bit of the customer service and I realized every day I was talking to people and helping them overcome the fear of booking a lesson or even just inquiring in the first place.
03:44.637 --> 03:52.485
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, as my role developed, I could help a little bit with writing blogs and things like that and I didn't know where to start.
03:52.546 --> 03:54.247
[SPEAKER_02]: So I just thought, well, what do I know?
03:54.267 --> 03:56.050
[SPEAKER_02]: I know why people don't want to book.
03:56.070 --> 03:56.991
[SPEAKER_02]: I know why they're scared.
03:57.271 --> 03:59.153
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'll address those things.
03:59.133 --> 04:00.916
[SPEAKER_02]: and some of the blogs did really well.
04:01.377 --> 04:05.403
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a blog, I wrote, I think it's like 800 words.
04:05.824 --> 04:07.347
[SPEAKER_02]: The formatting is horrible.
04:07.367 --> 04:22.812
[SPEAKER_02]: It's in a really weird WordPress template and that was seven or years ago and it's still one of the top three forming pages on the website and so I was like,
04:22.792 --> 04:26.615
[SPEAKER_02]: couldn't go skiing, couldn't go surfing, what am I going to do?
04:26.856 --> 04:29.318
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to keep writing.
04:29.518 --> 04:39.006
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to help other
Load full transcript
brands address those obstacles and hesitations that people feel that are stopping them from trying something new and getting out of their comfort zone.
04:39.466 --> 04:46.332
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's very much the approach I've come to the marketing world with and helping people overcome obstacles and hesitations.
04:47.013 --> 04:52.798
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, one of the clients that I currently have, which is where our big
04:52.778 --> 05:00.409
[SPEAKER_02]: they are encouraging people, athletes, entrepreneurs, they're encouraging them to do more recovery.
05:00.549 --> 05:03.794
[SPEAKER_02]: Think about that as their competitive advantage.
05:04.695 --> 05:07.579
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not something that a lot of people feel they have time for.
05:07.880 --> 05:12.947
[SPEAKER_02]: So what we're trying to do is encourage them to, what it's kind of like a mindset shift, and
05:12.927 --> 05:27.947
[SPEAKER_02]: similar to encouraging people in the Surf School, it's our mindset shift of, I don't believe in myself, I can't do this, I don't believe you, I don't believe in myself to be successful and it's very much the same approach that we're coming up with this recovery brand.
05:28.608 --> 05:38.040
[SPEAKER_02]: It's called Dopper, DOPPA, we're very new, but we have started, like the first thing we have done is start with this WhatsApp group to
05:38.020 --> 05:51.507
[SPEAKER_02]: come up with, well, basically talk to our about ideal customers and the best people that we think are well-suited for the brand, not just to validate it, but to get insights from them as well on how we can develop the brand.
05:51.723 --> 05:58.072
[SPEAKER_01]: So you kind of lead me there into my first question, which is, why might we want to set up a WhatsApp group?
05:58.132 --> 06:02.558
[SPEAKER_01]: Because there has to be, it's like with everything on WhatsApp, there's no point in doing it.
06:02.578 --> 06:04.060
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a two-way communication.
06:04.200 --> 06:06.203
[SPEAKER_01]: And very much so in the group setting.
06:06.584 --> 06:10.189
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not the goal can't be to tell people about our sale.
06:11.010 --> 06:11.290
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
06:11.310 --> 06:18.861
[SPEAKER_01]: So what are you seeing as the key reasons why someone might want to invest their time and effort in putting together and building a WhatsApp community?
06:19.347 --> 06:30.630
[SPEAKER_02]: So for us right now, it's validation of messaging, validation of elements of the product that we're going to be putting out into the world.
06:30.650 --> 06:38.706
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to be building an online platform that measures recovery sports performance business.
06:38.686 --> 06:47.784
[SPEAKER_02]: because they found in research, if you use ice baths, if you take time to do physical recovery, there's an impact on your cognitive performance.
06:48.325 --> 07:00.610
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're trying to bring those two worlds together and it's a little bit
of a complex topic that people aren't used to and actually having this WhatsApp group is helping us find ways to best discuss this topic.
07:00.590 --> 07:09.438
[SPEAKER_02]: We can see what things people resonate with, what people reply to, what gets tumbleweed and no one wants to have a conversation about.
07:10.018 --> 07:14.983
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's as much validation as it is feedback.
07:15.003 --> 07:23.310
[SPEAKER_02]: And then when we learn what topics people are engaged with and what gets the conversation going, then we can put that into a content strategy.
07:23.350 --> 07:30.276
[SPEAKER_02]: We can feed back that voice of customer into the copy
07:30.256 --> 07:39.488
[SPEAKER_02]: those are probably the main reasons for us that we're using it and also to make this really small group of people feel really valuable.
07:40.549 --> 07:45.796
[SPEAKER_02]: I think when people are, they feel valuable, they feel important.
07:46.617 --> 07:58.592
[SPEAKER_02]: That's when you start to build that trust that you don't have to go in for the hard
07:58.572 --> 08:06.421
[SPEAKER_01]: So, hold on, this is very similar to kind of what you were doing initially, what you as you talked about, your career progression.
08:06.982 --> 08:12.728
[SPEAKER_01]: When you were on the phone talking people through their problems, that was research for you back then.
08:12.849 --> 08:18.815
[SPEAKER_01]: And now, this what's that group is a way of research that's, I guess it's also transcribed, isn't it?
08:18.876 --> 08:23.601
[SPEAKER_01]: Because people are writing in there in the
08:23.699 --> 08:41.543
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's learn from our customers and let's understand all that core stuff we really need at the moment, the tone of voice, the messages that resonate, how they're putting things in the customer's voice, but also an element of let's build a really core, core group of people who are going to feel really attached to the brand for the longer term as well.
08:41.563 --> 08:42.805
[SPEAKER_01]: So this isn't
08:42.785 --> 08:47.634
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to email our whole enquiry database and try and get them signed up.
08:47.674 --> 08:57.332
[SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be people who are already buying from us VIPs type scenario to build that closer connection, but also get that great research data too.
08:57.673 --> 08:58.454
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
08:58.935 --> 09:01.941
[SPEAKER_02]: And as the copywriter, I
09:01.921 --> 09:26.730
[SPEAKER_02]: initially started to use the jobs to be done framework to get that insight into post solutions that didn't work, why it didn't work, why they don't believe in themselves to try something new, what those emotions are around the thing they want to remove themselves from that problem state, how they describe their future dream state that they want to get to.
09:26.710 --> 09:45.580
[SPEAKER_02]: and so initially we used that framework with individual interviews, one to one on Zoom recorded,
we used that those transcripts to work at what messages we thought we wanted to use and then because we'd have that one to one conversation with people that represented
09:45.560 --> 09:46.862
[SPEAKER_02]: our ideal customer.
09:46.942 --> 09:49.466
[SPEAKER_02]: We had a bit of a rapport with the many way.
09:49.506 --> 10:02.386
[SPEAKER_02]: They got to know me a little bit because we had a one-to-one conversation, a little bit of that barrier has been broken down to just inviting a total stranger into what's that group and expecting them to engage.
10:03.388 --> 10:12.141
[SPEAKER_02]: So we already had a bit of that interaction and to contrast that a few months back maybe a year ago,
10:12.121 --> 10:20.449
[SPEAKER_02]: I ran a LinkedIn workshop on helping people write LinkedIn content that was going to actually peak people's interests and get them wanting to engage.
10:21.330 --> 10:33.503
[SPEAKER_02]: So if the selling without selling sounding sales, and immediately after that, I created a WhatsApp group with all the attendees because I've had a face somewhat on Zoom face-to-face conversation with a lot of these people.
10:33.963 --> 10:37.707
[SPEAKER_02]: That barrier is
10:37.687 --> 10:46.982
[SPEAKER_02]: them with the topic of LinkedIn and we were like, okay, well, whenever you have a LinkedIn post, that you want people to comment on, put it in the group, we'll all comment on it.
10:47.483 --> 10:53.974
[SPEAKER_02]: And what I realized when that fell flat on its face was that it's
10:53.954 --> 10:59.684
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just asking everyone to take an action and if they don't take it then there's no value in here for me.
11:00.125 --> 11:10.343
[SPEAKER_02]: So I wanted to use that learning for this for the new current WhatsApp group we have for Doppar in how can this be a two-way conversation.
11:10.441 --> 11:26.721
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a quote from Seema Palmer, who is the community manager and had a membership brand called Until, and they are a kind of gin in London, but it's spaces for practitioners to use and connect with each other.
11:27.161 --> 11:33.609
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know if she came up with this herself or she got up for someone else, but it stuck with me for a really long time.
11:33.669 --> 11:36.212
[SPEAKER_02]: And she said, the true
11:36.715 --> 11:44.162
[SPEAKER_02]: mark of a community is when people interact and you don't have to moderate or facilitate or initiate.
11:44.982 --> 11:53.089
[SPEAKER_02]: When people are connecting with each other and with the WhatsApp group that I created for the people who came to my LinkedIn workshop, that wasn't there.
11:53.710 --> 11:55.952
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a one-way communication.
11:57.373 --> 12:05.220
[SPEAKER_02]: The one-way was maybe from members, but they weren't asking for a reply response in the group.
12:05.200 --> 12:08.867
[SPEAKER_02]: you need to leave this WhatsApp group to go and do the thing that I want you to do.
12:08.927 --> 12:25.037
[SPEAKER_02]: So I took that learning into the current WhatsApp group that we are building and thought how we're going to get people to be, to engage with each other, where we as facilitators, just three of us moderators, we have a real minor role.
12:25.739 --> 12:28.103
[SPEAKER_02]: For us specifically in this case,
12:28.555 --> 12:38.553
[SPEAKER_02]: we have been super detailed and specific about who our ideal client is and refined that to the smallest number of people.
12:38.593 --> 12:47.830
[SPEAKER_02]: So for us we have athletes or ex athletes who want to who run a business or want to run a business.
12:47.810 --> 12:57.702
[SPEAKER_02]: and we also have entrepreneurs who aspire to sort of like the training and progression and goals, pbs of these athletes.
12:58.403 --> 13:10.577
[SPEAKER_02]: So what we've been able to create is a space where these two different groups of people want to learn from each other, which has been really helpful in understanding how we can get through these people to engage with each other.
13:11.333 --> 13:27.975
[SPEAKER_01]: So I find it really fascinating how you're talking about it because it's like the the recruitment and the goals and the engagement are completely impossible to pick apart from each other if you want engagement.
13:27.955 --> 13:32.880
[SPEAKER_01]: then you have to bring in people who are going to create content and respond to the content.
13:32.900 --> 13:34.862
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I thought you think your LinkedIn example was great.
13:34.882 --> 13:37.244
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I created this so they could post stuff.
13:37.264 --> 13:39.126
[SPEAKER_01]: But nobody wanted to post it, anything.
13:39.146 --> 13:40.687
[SPEAKER_01]: So it wasn't, it wasn't going to work.
13:40.707 --> 13:45.532
[SPEAKER_01]: And they had to go to LinkedIn, create their LinkedIn thing, then come back, which possibly means device switching.
13:45.572 --> 13:49.115
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, make so much sense in retrospect that that wouldn't function.
13:49.676 --> 13:52.699
[SPEAKER_01]: But then that also means you need the right people in the group.
13:52.759 --> 13:53.980
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't need.
13:53.960 --> 14:13.200
[SPEAKER_01]: 100s and 100s of people necessarily in the group, you need the top 1% in the group who feel privileged to be in there who have something to gain from it and the fact you know you found these two niches within the customer base who can learn from each other and want to learn from each other.
14:13.180 --> 14:32.965
[SPEAKER_01]: which I can so see working for a lot of e-commerce branch and in skincare and supplements in even potentially even in fashion, you know, those who are depending on whether brand focuses, those who are taking this to get further or using this in their beauty routine to solve a problem and who can learn from others who can solve the problem.
14:33.546 --> 14:34.547
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems
14:34.527 --> 14:43.757
[SPEAKER_01]:
Like what I'm trying to say, it's fascinating how it is essential to get the right people in, provoke them in the right way to get them automatically sharing.
14:44.578 --> 14:47.662
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not a project that's been taken lightly, I suppose.
14:48.443 --> 14:55.771
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we were able to find these two very specific groups.
14:55.871 --> 14:59.235
[SPEAKER_02]: We're actually there's a lot of crossover between the two groups.
14:59.215 --> 15:05.544
[SPEAKER_02]: because we took the time to do those initial interviews and have those one-to-one conversations with people.
15:05.564 --> 15:16.920
[SPEAKER_02]: What we did before we created the WhatsApp group was we found 20 to 30 people who we wanted to interview, who we thought these people might look like I or customer.
15:16.900 --> 15:36.748
[SPEAKER_02]: and I've developed a framework that I use a lot of the time which is sort of like laid on top of the jobs to be done framework to understand what the intrinsic motivations are for someone to recover, to run a business, to train for half marathon or an Ironman.
15:36.728 --> 15:40.215
[SPEAKER_02]: what those deep rooted desires are.
15:40.956 --> 15:49.253
[SPEAKER_02]: The framework itself is tied and it's designed to help build momentum with creating that connection with customers.
15:49.722 --> 16:08.710
[SPEAKER_02]: So the T stands for true identity and so what that means is we're trying to speak to these ICPs and understand who are they when they train well, who are they when they run their business when they feel on top of things and there's that sort of mutual desire for performance on
16:08.690 --> 16:09.551
[SPEAKER_02]: on both levels.
16:10.232 --> 16:12.335
[SPEAKER_02]: The eye is intrinsic motivation.
16:12.395 --> 16:15.399
[SPEAKER_02]: So what does it mean to them when they're able to achieve it?
16:15.779 --> 16:18.382
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, what does it mean when they're not able to achieve it?
16:19.003 --> 16:21.026
[SPEAKER_02]: The D is doubts and hesitations.
16:21.486 --> 16:28.395
[SPEAKER_02]: So what doubts and hesitations do they have about recovery methods or learning from other people in business?
16:29.456 --> 16:31.219
[SPEAKER_02]: And the E is expression patterns.
16:31.239 --> 16:38.528
[SPEAKER_02]: So like what language they use to
16:38.508 --> 16:52.805
[SPEAKER_02]: and so by digging into the psyche of these individuals and using counselor-influenced interview techniques to help to unpick these motivations, desires, doubts, etc.
16:53.926 --> 17:01.275
[SPEAKER_02]: We were able to take all of that data from the interviews, collate it, see where the common themes were,
17:01.475 --> 17:14.011
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we were able to determine the two different categories that were the most prevalent being the athletes or ex-app athletes that run businesses and the entrepreneurs who want to train like them.
17:14.953 --> 17:31.414
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think this idea of pulling
people together by psychographics rather than demographics can be really powerful in working out who you actually want in that group and are there two contrasting groups of people
17:31.394 --> 17:37.962
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, there's commonalities, their time pour, so recovery always disappears.
17:38.002 --> 17:41.426
[SPEAKER_02]: There have these expectations on themselves.
17:41.907 --> 17:48.355
[SPEAKER_02]: They feel perpetually behind because they've set them so their own arbitrary goals which they might always be able to reach.
17:48.996 --> 17:52.660
[SPEAKER_02]: They prioritise training and socialising over recovery.
17:52.859 --> 18:03.703
[SPEAKER_02]: their body or their brain as they're revenue, because they've got to look after themselves and if they don't then their work's not going to be as good or they're going to find it tough training and not feel like they're progressing.
18:04.305 --> 18:08.033
[SPEAKER_02]: And so looking at those
18:08.013 --> 18:23.262
[SPEAKER_02]: psychological elements of the human being that you're trying to attract with your brand or your company is so fundamental to setting the parameters and the conditions for that group and what you're saying.
18:24.183 --> 18:29.413
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess not boundaries but what your expectation of all that relationship is between those people.
18:29.393 --> 18:30.534
[SPEAKER_01]: I make so much sense.
18:31.295 --> 18:34.419
[SPEAKER_01]: Two, two, three letter abbreviations.
18:34.459 --> 18:36.962
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to give those to the audience cash, any of you are screaming this.
18:37.422 --> 18:42.929
[SPEAKER_01]: ICP, ideal customer profile, basically your target customer segment definition.
18:43.549 --> 18:44.230
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those ones.
18:44.530 --> 18:47.194
[SPEAKER_01]: Voc voice of customer, for anyone wondering that one.
18:47.554 --> 18:51.098
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a question for you then, Alice.
18:51.078 --> 19:06.247
[SPEAKER_01]: I love how you paired kind of the interview's research, the really in-depth zoom calls with everybody, and then bought them into the group, which I think often people do the research once as the zoom calls, because it's time-consuming, and they rely on that for 12 months.
19:06.287 --> 19:09.994
[SPEAKER_01]: But obviously with the WhatsApp group, you get ongoing data from people.
19:10.054 --> 19:12.799
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you also found with the WhatsApp group that you
19:12.779 --> 19:25.401
[SPEAKER_01]: you know digging for trying to get people to give you those intrinsic bits can be an absolute, even however skilled you are it can be an absolute nightmare actually can't say tell me intrinsically how are you motivated to do this because it's so layered down.
19:25.461 --> 19:34.838
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you find with the more natural ad hoc conversations that happen in the WhatsApp group where people don't feel like they're being interviewed and they're not in interview mode?
19:34.818 --> 19:40.624
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you find you get some of that intrinsic coming out organically and naturally that helps you?
19:40.704 --> 19:43.487
[SPEAKER_01]: Or is it more surface level what you're getting?
19:44.088 --> 19:51.195
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a really good question and when we were trying to work out what makes what might make us successful?
19:51.215 --> 19:51.856
[SPEAKER_02]: What's that group?
19:51.956 --> 19:54.379
[SPEAKER_02]: We're thinking, okay, what other WhatsApp groups am I in?
19:54.639 --> 19:55.660
[SPEAKER_02]: What are the busiest ones?
19:56.000 --> 19:57.262
[SPEAKER_02]: Who do I speak to the most?
19:58.183 --> 20:03.188
[SPEAKER_02]: And for me, it's an extended family
20:03.168 --> 20:04.530
[SPEAKER_02]: and also my run club.
20:05.231 --> 20:08.375
[SPEAKER_02]: And what do people talk about in there?
20:08.696 --> 20:22.155
[SPEAKER_02]: And the overwhelming, the two, the overwhelming reasons why people engage or they speak is to celebrate their own achievement or someone else's achievement and self-deprecation.
20:22.135 --> 20:25.861
[SPEAKER_02]: Like in my family, what's up group?
20:26.542 --> 20:36.017
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone's continually taking the piss out of each other and you get that flurry of messages and everyone wants to have their say and someone's trying to stand up for themselves.
20:36.037 --> 20:39.422
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's all ingested and it's not, it's in a nice way.
20:39.983 --> 20:47.535
[SPEAKER_02]: But I wanted to try and reverse engineer that and think, how can I use that in the group to get
20:47.515 --> 20:57.232
[SPEAKER_02]: honest insights from people that isn't just, hey, what podcast you listening to or can you give me a recommendation for someone to sort out my client onboarding journey?
20:58.033 --> 21:03.703
[SPEAKER_02]: So where we are with this specific brand is at least the two founders.
21:03.863 --> 21:07.489
[SPEAKER_02]: They are both, they're both on Ironman competitions.
21:07.609 --> 21:10.194
[SPEAKER_02]: One of them is a sports rehab expert.
21:10.214 --> 21:13.219
[SPEAKER_02]: The other one is a general manager of some really like
21:13.199 --> 21:15.041
[SPEAKER_02]: upper class gyms in London currently.
21:15.542 --> 21:17.184
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's like, got the people skills.
21:17.885 --> 21:23.052
[SPEAKER_02]: So the three of us, we're sort of getting the ball rolling because there's a couple of moderators.
21:23.993 --> 21:36.269
[SPEAKER_02]: And so if we think about the busy WhatsApp that were in the congratulations and the self-deprecation, or I mean you not, you don't want to lightly take the piss out of anyone in the group unless you know each other really well.
21:36.850 --> 21:41.856
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think one of the best ways that we've been able to see those intrinsic
21:41.988 --> 21:49.662
[SPEAKER_02]: honest, vulnerable reactions from people is when we say we really struggled like it's Christmas.
21:50.063 -->
21:50.924
[SPEAKER_02]: I've eaten so much.
21:50.984 --> 21:52.307
[SPEAKER_02]: My training plan's gone to shit.
21:52.728 --> 22:03.287
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't really know how to motivate myself when everyone's really busy or they're drinking the evenings and I know I've got a gap up for the morning for a run.
22:03.267 --> 22:09.277
[SPEAKER_02]: We are lucky to be in the place where we're kind of two steps ahead of a lot of the people in the group.
22:09.718 --> 22:12.944
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not an athlete myself, but I surf a lot.
22:13.244 --> 22:23.622
[SPEAKER_02]: I run quite a lot now and have done, you know, like a little like trail run competition last year, but I'm in the position where I now understand about recovery so much.
22:23.602 --> 22:27.286
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so ingrained into the lives of the founders that they are two steps ahead.
22:27.306 --> 22:29.609
[SPEAKER_02]: So we can really relate to the people in the group.
22:29.969 --> 22:50.892
[SPEAKER_02]: I think from that, with people are wanting to create a group where people are honest, I think finding a moderator or a significant voice or two who is those two steps ahead, people are more willing to be open about
22:51.513 --> 22:57.895
[SPEAKER_02]: there's someone in the group that's like them, and they've seen it before, and they know they understand where you're at.
22:58.043 --> 23:08.315
[SPEAKER_02]: So if we've said, okay, we've we're struggling with training over Christmas, or I meant to do recovery session, but I decided to go to the pub and sit with my friends because it's Christmas and I don't want to miss out.
23:08.776 --> 23:12.340
[SPEAKER_02]: People are really open to be like, oh, yeah, me too.
23:12.400 --> 23:17.446
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm what I'm doing is rubbish and we're not doing this to try and make people full bad about themselves.
23:17.767 --> 23:23.173
[SPEAKER_02]: But we're trying to get those insights to so eventually when we're starting
23:23.153 --> 23:28.461
[SPEAKER_02]: more content in a big, in a wider community on circle which we're building at the moment.
23:29.302 --> 23:32.646
[SPEAKER_02]: We can say we really know that you struggle when there's social stuff on.
23:32.927 --> 23:49.971
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's a five minute thing you can do beforehand so that we're addressing those frustrations that people have but in the WhatsApp group because we're trying to create that environment where people are happy to be a little bit vulnerable because it's a level playing field.
23:49.951 --> 24:05.833
[SPEAKER_02]: their more visceral with their language is more colour and texture to the way they describe things which for us is gold for voice of customer that we can use those little language nuggets and put it in a headline on the website and it sounds different and it gives
24:05.813 --> 24:16.949
[SPEAKER_02]: voiced the brand and it sounds different from everyone else because we are using the language of our customers, reflecting it back to them, reflecting their experience back to them.
24:16.989 --> 24:24.801
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we can develop that relationship of relating to them and continuing to build that trust with them.
24:25.405 --> 24:26.669
[SPEAKER_01]: love this insight.
24:26.709 --> 24:27.231
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks Alice.
24:27.251 --> 24:33.510
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there anything we've missed that the audience need to know about or have we covered everything that you've been experimenting with with WhatsApp groups?
24:33.610 --> 24:36.900
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like we probably have, but if we've missed anything, tell me now.
24:37.471 --> 25:01.858
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think the main reason why I feel like the current WhatsApp group we have is successful and the other one is in is that we're not creating it as a broadcast channel we're creating it is an interaction for people to learn from each other and by virtue hopefully will make some sales for in the community from it because we built that trust with people but I think it's just so important to remember that.
25:01.838 --> 25:04.662
[SPEAKER_02]: from the learnings of the failed LinkedIn, what's that group?
25:05.243 --> 25:07.467
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that it needs to be mutually beneficial?
25:07.887 --> 25:21.248
[SPEAKER_02]: People need to feel like it's worth their time spending in there because, yeah, I have a bunch of what's up groups where I've just muted it and science didn't put it in my archive because
25:21.228 --> 25:40.286
[SPEAKER_02]: it's too salesy or it's irrelevant to who I am and you know I've seen what used to be really strong community groups getting too busy and then the moderators either stopping posting or closing it down and moving to like circle platform.
25:41.108 --> 25:42.190
[SPEAKER_02]: I so I think
25:42.794 --> 25:58.187
[SPEAKER_02]: Keeping an eye on the numbers, making it small, making it feel exclusive and not letting in anyone is really important to maintain the engagement and keep people interested in sharing and learning from other people.
25:58.910 --> 25:59.391
[SPEAKER_01]: awesome.
25:59.411 --> 25:59.792
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
25:59.892 --> 26:00.995
[SPEAKER_01]: Keep it exclusive.
26:01.597 --> 26:14.488
[SPEAKER_01]: As it been great picking up brains about all of this, listeners remember to stay tuned right to the end so you don't miss out on Alice's insider tips on WhatsApp and other things and my suggestions for more free resources to help you improve things even further in your business.
26:16.493 --> 26:21.320
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay Alice, so far we've gone deep into WhatsApp communities and customer communications.
26:21.440 --> 26:23.744
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you get to out with your insider knowledge.
26:23.784 --> 26:32.057
[SPEAKER_01]: So for the following questions you answer can be anything to do with WhatsApp and customer communications, which of course does include everything we've already been talking about.
26:32.317 --> 26:33.038
[SPEAKER_01]: Are
you ready?
26:33.379 --> 26:34.060
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, go for it.
26:34.861 --> 26:36.323
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's start with new be advised.
26:36.343 --> 26:42.332
[SPEAKER_01]: If we've inspired someone to take their first step, what they need to know to give themselves the best chance or success.
26:42.616 --> 27:09.973
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say, think about who you're guessing in the group before you think about how many or what sales pitch you're going to have at the end of it, think about the smallest group of people that you can invite so that it doesn't feel overwhelming, you can get to know every single individual in there to make them feel valued and important because that is creating the environment where people actually want to to speak up and engage with the other members.
27:10.983 --> 27:11.604
[SPEAKER_01]: love that.
27:11.764 --> 27:14.769
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, once you've started, of course, you've got to keep optimizing.
27:14.809 --> 27:16.993
[SPEAKER_01]: So what's your favorite way to improve performance?
27:18.335 --> 27:35.944
[SPEAKER_02]: I think using the conversations as feedback, trialling different things that you might want to talk about, seeing what works, what doesn't, what gets people talking, what doesn't particularly contested topics where you might have a bit of a split.
27:35.924 --> 27:55.350
[SPEAKER_02]: in your members on point-to-view because everyone loves to have a controversial point-to-view and use that data, feed it back into your content strategy or use the voice of customer, feed it back into your headlines or your email subject lines, use that data,
27:55.330 --> 28:08.954
[SPEAKER_02]: to grow from it, that feat use it as a feedback loop so that it's your motivation to keep people engaged because it's not just people talking to each other, you're going to get value from that to use on other platforms.
28:09.936 --> 28:13.061
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice, yeah, such so, so much potential.
28:13.302 --> 28:13.642
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
28:14.023 --> 28:18.030
[SPEAKER_01]: If someone listening wants to learn more, is there a cheap or free resource you would recommend?
28:18.230 --> 28:22.776
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I've actually written an e-book on my tied framework.
28:23.277 --> 28:32.269
[SPEAKER_02]: So we look, as I said, we look at the true identity of your customer, their intrinsic motivations, doubts and hesitations, and expression patterns.
28:32.870 --> 28:37.677
[SPEAKER_02]: And ultimately, it's going to help motivate people to engage with you.
28:37.717 --> 28:44.406
[SPEAKER_02]: It's designed so that those interactions can be emotionally intelligent when you start
28:44.386 --> 28:58.222
[SPEAKER_02]: So it will give you ideas on how you can formulate these interviews with customers and then utilize that to make your interactions with customers more emotionally intelligent, resonant and relevant as well.
28:59.044 --> 29:01.230
[SPEAKER_01]: So how can people get their hands on that ebook?
29:01.345 --> 29:01.786
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
29:01.866 --> 29:11.897
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's on my website, if you go to 7th as in 78 dash wave.co forward slash tide.
29:12.798 --> 29:13.700
[SPEAKER_02]: That's where you can get it.
29:14.180 --> 29:17.504
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a 20% off for all of your listeners as well.
29:17.544 --> 29:18.826
[SPEAKER_02]: So the discount code is keep.
29:19.586 --> 29:24.332
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you just put that in when you're on the payment page and you'll get 20% off.
29:24.852 --> 29:25.834
[SPEAKER_01]: awesome.
29:25.974 --> 29:32.429
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone we will make sure the details of that are in the show notes on the website as well to make it super easy for you to go and grab that great deal.
29:33.050 --> 29:38.642
[SPEAKER_01]: Finally, it's crystal ball time at what's coming up in the next 6 to 12 months that we should be getting ready for.
29:39.517 --> 29:45.884
[SPEAKER_02]: I can imagine there's going to be a lot of brands that are going to want to utilize WhatsApp and try and monetize it.
29:46.945 --> 29:51.309
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think you've got to be super clever for that to work.
29:52.130 --> 29:55.934
[SPEAKER_02]: I think for things like coaches, that's probably going to work fine.
29:56.474 --> 30:06.925
[SPEAKER_02]: But for anyone else, I think you see the value in that is the data that you can feed back in.
30:07.529 --> 30:31.545
[SPEAKER_02]: Intelligent structure for it in why people are going to get value because you've yeah you've got to see that value as data you're building that trust with people but they are also going to be your brand of angeles they are going to be the people that refer you in the word of mouth so I think in the next six or 12 months we're probably going to see people trying monetize it but I don't know if it's going to work for everyone.
30:31.745 --> 30:56.065
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the direct monetization is tricky, but, you know, before the power is in the trust and the knowledge and the voice of the customer, et cetera, and the intrinsic bits that you're learning, to then try and, you know, send a sales message in there, would eradicate a lot of the value in the trust that you've built up, but saying that, the value you get from everything we've been talking about if you actually implement it and use it.
30:56.045 --> 31:23.537
[SPEAKER_02]: is going to be far higher and improve your business for far longer anyway so I like I love that crystal ball thank you Alice now we are nearly at the end of the show so could you please at the list as no where they can get in contact with you in your business yeah sure and so as I said if you go to my website which is 7th 78-wave.co i'm on LinkedIn as well Alice Brown that's I spend
31:23.517 --> 31:34.134
[SPEAKER_02]: And if anyone is a entrepreneur who trains like an athlete or they are an athlete that runs a business, feel free to give us a follow on on Instagram.
31:34.614 --> 31:43.288
[SPEAKER_02]: If
you feel like you'd be a good fit and you want to learn more about like sports recovery, then we have a waiting list currently open for the platform.
31:43.468 --> 31:44.530
[SPEAKER_02]: You can join our WhatsApp.
31:44.690 --> 31:46.032
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not paid.
31:46.012 --> 31:57.347
[SPEAKER_02]: The Instagram is Dopper, DOPPA.London, and the waiting list is that the URL that's exactly the same Dopper.London, which we'd love to have some new founding members.
31:58.108 --> 31:59.109
[SPEAKER_01]: Very exciting.
31:59.189 --> 32:00.471
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish you all the best with that.
32:00.511 --> 32:03.295
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like it's going to really help out a lot of people.
32:04.056 --> 32:09.523
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for being on the Keep Optimizing podcast for being so generous, sharing your expertise with us.
32:09.563 --> 32:10.524
[SPEAKER_01]: We really appreciate it.
32:11.025 --> 32:11.766
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks Chloe.
32:13.788 --> 32:17.632
[SPEAKER_01]: what a fascinating take on the power of community and the groups there.
32:17.652 --> 32:29.684
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was really interesting to hear about all the experiments Alice is busy working on and that core connection between who you invited and the value you get out of it and the conversations that happen.
32:29.765 --> 32:37.973
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's one we all need to think about if we're going to be building communities on WhatsApp and obviously you know if you want to really
32:37.953 --> 32:53.802
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want your ads, if you want your marketing to really cut through, you have to understand your customer better, you have to build closer relationships with them so you can get to not just the things they'll put into a survey form, but that intrinsic lower level reasoning for why they're using your products and products like it.
32:53.782 --> 33:02.193
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I love that take from Alice there, you can get the links to all those things we discussed the full transcript of the episode, important notes, and more at keepoptimizing.com.
33:02.673 --> 33:05.257
[SPEAKER_01]: You could also use our special direct episode short links.
33:05.657 --> 33:13.727
[SPEAKER_01]: Just put keepopt.com forward slash the number of this episode into the URL bar, and you'll be redirected straight to the right page on the website.
33:14.168 --> 33:22.118
[SPEAKER_01]: When you get to the website, you could also add yourself to our email list, so you don't miss out on any of the other things I share to help you to improve your business.
33:22.098 --> 33:25.642
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Keep Up to Mising podcast.
33:26.243 --> 33:44.063
[SPEAKER_01]: If you've enjoyed this episode, then why not check out Episode 160, which is all about private Facebook groups with Janice Thomas, a retailer who's come on to talk about how they use Facebook groups in the business to do many of the things we've just been talking about.
33:44.083 --> 33:46.806
[SPEAKER_01]: So that really builds on this episode.
33:46.786 --> 34:03.746
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you want more on WhatsApp, that's what we're covering at the moment, so you can either get that by scrolling up your feed because immediately before this you will find other WhatsApp episodes or you can use the short link, keep opt.com forward slash WhatsApp to head to our page of all our WhatsApp content on the website.
34:04.347 --> 34:13.738
[SPEAKER_01]: Please do tell your fellow marketers about the show because I want to help as many of you as possible to improve the performance of your e-commerce marketing with WhatsApp and all the other channels.
34:13.718 --> 34:28.437
[SPEAKER_00]: Have a great week and make sure you listen to the next episode so I can help you to keep optimizing your marketing.