Full Transcript for Exploring the Creative Journey: Ellen Angelico and the Story of Shelly Bush

writer. You. In detail. This band was called the Down Underwood Band. Okay, Ellen took every song and gave us notes. You listened to every song and said Play Something Country. This is where I see me playing what I play and somebody else playing. We need this guidance. This is something you are meticulous. One of us, it says, "Play something country." One of us should do rhythm and one should do lead. I'm comfortable either way. I thought this is great. And it just goes, I thought, well, okay, because we had a lead guitar player. We had you playing pedal steel, lap steel. And lead guitar, I think, if not something like that. Okay. Take it easy. The old Eagles favorite. Okay... I never learned the solo for this one. So I'd be more comfortable doing rhythm unless you guys don't mind the solo not being exactly right. Now I know it's funny, but this is important stuff because I've been, you've been on a million more gigs than I have, where, you know, that you've learned the solo, but maybe nobody asked you and you did it anyway. And because you know, you need to be prepared. Cause you, I've been on the other side where it's like, well, who, who learned this? And I go, I don't know. I didn't learn nobody. And you know, the old, nobody asked me, right. But you're giving notes, like saying, this is what I'm good at. I know my strengths. I know my weaknesses. That is a gift that you have. I'll go down Orange Blossom Special. Been a minute since I've played this one, fine to solo as much as needed. See, this is confidence. You instill confidence in us. I read that. I go work. Good, Sarah, we're golden. We got you, we got Johnson Jay on guitar. I mean, we are so good, but the fact of the matter is this is the gig that you were hired on and you cared enough to write every song out and go through it and say, here's my weakness, here's my strength and here are my thoughts because I care, look at this Brown Sugar. To be honest, I'm not super familiar with this one. How dare you, first of all. The Rolling Stones. I'm gonna listen to it a bunch, but if someone knows the parts well, please feel free to cover the classic rock shaped hole in my brain. That's honesty. See? But look at this. Redneck Woman? I'm on steel. Done, EllenAngelico: 00:07:55 Right? Larry: 00:07:55 We go, yep, yes ma'am, you got it. EllenAngelico: 00:07:58 This is, this is over the top though. This is, this is too Larry: 00:08:01 It's exactly who you are because you care. EllenAngelico: 00:08:03 This is so nuts. Really the takeaway here is that I should just learn the solo for Take it easy already. Larry: 00:08:09 No, no, no. What the point of the matter is, is that you're working well with others. You're not just coming at it. Like I, me, mine. This is a community being in a band is one thing. Being a hired gun with a bunch of other cats is another animal. And you're able to just say, all right, let me do my homework, so I'm as prepared as possible and I can give notes accordingly. And

you know, you're not telling everybody what to do. I mean, how many gigs have you played where somebody who's hired Just the same pay grade as you are comes in and starts bossing everybody around. Sometimes that's nice. I don't mind that because I'm like, great, tell me what to do. if it's somebody else's music, I have less of an ego about it. Your love of music is outstanding, and it is moving. The reason why we're sitting here right now is because you just released an incredible, podcast of your own. And I just want to make sure that there's nobody podcasting in this town, but me. EllenAngelico: 00:09:00 So I'm here to kill you. Larry: 00:09:02 I'm here to get rid of everything, all the evidence. I'm kidding. Ellen Angelico presents: Girl In A Hurry, the Shelly Bush story. What an incredible journey. I listened to all of it I. Loved it. EllenAngelico: 00:09:13 Thanks. Larry: 00:09:14 Now, you're a musician. You are a side person pretty much, right? that's, your gig. EllenAngelico: 00:09:19 Yeah. Larry: 00:09:20 You played with Shelly Bush. Explain to us who Shelly Bush was. EllenAngelico: 00:09:25 They called her the queen of Broadway. She's a honky tonk hero through and through. She had dreams of being a big star. Those dreams did not come to fruition, but she worked her tail off and she was well known among the people who played Broadway. She was very well known in her hometown, Revered, Larry: 00:09:43 And where was she from? EllenAngelico: 00:09:44 Stover, Missouri, Morgan County, Missouri, and she Whenever she went back to Missouri to play, it was just this big, like, oh my God, Shelly's back. It was like, this is the person who's gone off and made it big and done the thing and lives in Nashville. And she really was, uh, Special in a lot of ways. And in a lot of ways, she was exactly the same as you and me. I think, obviously I think we're special, but we're just musicians doing our thing and trying to make a living and trying to get by Shelly was that way too. I just felt that somebody needed to get her story. There isn't a lot of information about Shelly on the internet because most of her career kind of predates the daily internet use that we all experience today. And a lot of Shelly's career was like pre cell phones. And so if you Google Shelly, you know, before my podcast came out, you basically just got her obituary. And so I wanted to put something out there so that Shelly's story could live on even though it wasn't on the internet. And I also wanted to do it to show her friends and family that their stories matter and that Shelly's story mattered and that I noticed her even if she didn't get the recognition that she was kind of seeking in her lifetime. Larry: 00:10:57 You're a session player, you're a touring musician, you've been everywhere. You really have. Cutting your teeth on Broadway, Nashville, was with Shelly. correct? Like you, you sort of came in, you were kind of green on that scene. EllenAngelico: 00:11:09 Yes, very much so. I mean, I had been in an indie rock band, and I had been in a, like, regionally successful country cover band, so I had experience, I had touring experience. Larry: 00:11:19 Regionally where? Chicago area? EllenAngelico: 00:11:21 No, here, and the Midwest, um, And for both of those projects, I lived in Nashville and so I had touring experience, but I didn't really have a foothold in the scene of Nashville. And so that was when I got off the road with that country cover band. That's when a friend of mine told me about Shelly told me that she had an all female band. And at Broadband. and at the time I had boobs and a guitar and I was eminently qualified. And I was immediately on as much work as I wanted to be on, as much work as I could handle. It's incredible to go back and say, give love to something we've done in the past, especially in this business. This business is about tomorrow. This business is what's next. What's next? I've suffered greatly because of what's next. I've suffered personally, relationships that I thought were friends, relationships that I thought, uh, were longer lasting. Relationships with alcohol. Relationships with my own self and self esteem all suffered because I am so worried about what's next? I'm upset about what I didn't do right in the past, right? Could hey, can I get that song back please sir or ma'am? You know, or can we do this differently? Or wow, we shouldn't have lost that record deal, that sucked. This is great, while we're playing this gig right here, this is great. But oh my God, I got to get it together tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, next, next, next, next. And of course, with scrolling and the way everything is so quickly right now, but looking back, you looked back with reverence. You said, wow, this is something that was helped me in my own growth. And part of the thing that I think is amazing is that you are around somebody that, am I wrong in saying that she really wanted to be famous? Oh yeah. She was, her whole, her sole focus was to get famous. An old school style record deal. That was what she wanted. Larry: 00:13:06 And she worked forever for it. She worked so hard. This is a phenomenal podcast. You guys play a show on lower Broadway. For those of you who don't know, the lower Broadway shifts are like 4 hour shifts, and it starts like 10 to 2, 2 to 6, 6 to 10. And are there still the late night? There has to be. EllenAngelico: 00:13:22 Oh yes, absolutely. Larry: 00:13:23 The insane and Lower Broadway is busier now than ever. I mean, it is busier, busier, busier. So for you to get off of a 4 hour shift and you're not four hour taking breaks. It used to be breaks back in the day. There used to be, but now you are playing for four hours. If you need to go to the bathroom, you just go to the bathroom and you have somebody else on stage playing. So you would play for four hours straight with Shelly. Um, and then you would get into the van. Not a bus. EllenAngelico:

00:13:48 Sometimes eight hours straight with Shelly and then get in the van. Larry: 00:13:51 And it wasn't a tour bus. It wasn't, hey, we're going to go, and I'm going to put my head in a bunk and go to sleep. And then I'm going to wake up in Florida and play tomorrow. EllenAngelico: 00:13:58 I played with Shelly at the end of her life and I realized pretty quickly because my gig prior to being with Shelly was on a tour bus. And so I realized pretty quickly that the travel part of it was not for me. And I stopped saying yes to gigs with Shelly that were like more than six hours away because I didn't want to deal with that grind. But she was doing it up until her passing. Larry: 00:14:18 What do you feel about fame? What is fame? EllenAngelico: 00:14:20 Oh, gosh. Larry: 00:14:21 I mean, you work with somebody to try to help them achieve this goal. What is fame to you? EllenAngelico: 00:14:25 Well, I didn't work with Shelly to help her achieve her goal. To be clear, my motivations for working with Shelly were pretty selfish. Like, I wanted to, work and make money as a guitar player. That's my dream. And so I was living my dream while Shelly was pursuing hers. I've worked with a lot of famous people. I think that's great. It's not something that I value for myself. I don't see it as a component of what makes me happy, what makes me feel fulfilled. But I think that that's part of why I wanted to tell this story about Shelly because even though she wasn't famous, she was important. The effects of Shelly being alive still ripple around my life everyday, and a lot of other people's lives in Nashville too. Um, not just musicians who played with her on a regular basis. Plenty of musicians just kind of came and went from her band. The project was not about, awarding Shelly fame. The project was about correcting the historical record and changing how, or trying to do my small part in changing how history values certain people. Why is shelly less valued than, I don't know, name a country singer, Pam Tillis. I haven't played with Pam Tillis. I wish I played with Pam Tillis. Shelly is less valued in the eyes of history than Pam Tillis because she has less of those conventional cultural markers of achievement. But Shelly was extremely important. I would not be the musician I am today without her. And so I was trying to correct the historical record about her importance. Larry: 00:16:01 I appreciate that very much because I was thinking about it and I'm like, man, I've worked with artists. they're wanting for fame outweighed the music. It outweighed the relationships. And I love to quote, Brené Brown part of what she talks about is, is fitting in versus belonging. You know, there's a whole thing about we work so hard to fit in. I'll put on these clothes. I'll work this. Because there are optics, right? There's optics that I must, adhere to or, just be this thing, that's not necessarily me belonging and me feeling comfortable in my own skin. Fitting in is,

I'm doing everything so I can be more like you. Because what you're doing is what I want, so I'm going to be that. So, hence a hairdo, hence an outfit, hence, uh, even a vocal take. Just carrying yourself, you know? Telling everybody that, um, Hey, we opened up for Rascal Flatts, which is in your documentary and your podcast when it's like, yeah, well we played at one o'clock Rascal Flatts played at nine. So technically, I've opened up for Cheap Trick, but guess what? We were direct support right before Cheap Trick. I don't have a problem saying that, but if we played the same day, I'd be like, yeah, we were on a bill with Cheap Trick. But I understand because I've worked with artists that are really in denial like, no, no, no, no, no, no. We opened up for Rascal Flatts! Well I mean, okay. If you feel better about yourself. But it's not very authentic. it sounds to me that Shelly was both as authentic as it gets and yet still striving for something, and wanting to be loved. To perform and to prove and to please these are more, Brené Brown isms, if you will. Where you lose yourself, you work so hard to just be this thing that I don't know, do you think Shelly even knew what this thing was? I mean, it's a record contract. It's a record deal. I get it. And she had all of the highest, you know, esteemed players on the record and the records sound shiny and they're produced, you know what? They sound a lot like everybody else's records. And when I listened to the records in all fairness, I'm not saying that she wasn't good, but when I hear those records, I go, I know what you were going for. You were going for the Rascal Flatts sound. At the time, 2000, like eight to 15. That's when I moved to Nashville. That's when I learned about country music. And so her records sound like the records of the times. EllenAngelico: 00:18:12 Yes. Larry: 00:18:12 I don't even know if I had a question in all of this. EllenAngelico: 00:18:14 I think there's, there's like a distinction there too. It's an interesting thing. Like you talking about the people that you've played for who want so desperately to be famous. And then so many other areas of their art suffer. The reality is if what they really wanted was to be famous, they would be doing something entirely different because you can achieve fame without going through all this bother of the music business, you know? So ultimately that is not what Shelly's overriding goal was. Her goal was to be famous but she wanted to be famous for doing what she loved which was singing. And so I think that is where that's the authenticity part. She loved to sing it was always in her from when she was a kid with her three karaoke machines That was who she was, you know, the same way that playing guitar, is who I am. I think Shelly's goal, yes, Shelly wanted a record deal. mythology of that was very important to her. The mythology of country music. I guess to kind of answer your question, I don't think she realized how much she had

achieved. I think a lot of people who played with her do. I think people who played with her now look back at that time and see the way that Shelly elevated them out of a quote unquote, ordinary life. Yeah. If you're a good bass player, but you don't have the organizational skills to start a band and, buy a van and route shows to Las Vegas and back, you may not ever actually see the Grand Canyon. You know? There are people in Shelly's band who were afforded that opportunity to break out of the doldrums of an everyday existence. Larry: 00:19:51 Do you think she was coming from a point of view of that, I don't feel like I'm good enough in a shame way or did she feel like I am good enough! EllenAngelico: 00:19:58 No, she definitely felt she was good enough. Larry: 00:20:00 Right on. I mean, a big distinction, because we struggle for worthiness, right? We struggle to believe that we're valuable, you know? Part of the exterior is I don't feel good about myself, and I'm going to put up this really really sterling strong, wall, or defense. And in my defense, I'm wonderful! You know what I mean? And you're like, well, okay, I guess you say you are, so I believe you. And thank you for hiring me to play percussion in your gig. Cause I couldn't tell. Part of me felt sorry for her a little bit and then I don't know why I know why, because I'm seeing myself through that I'm seeing myself. When I started the show saying I'm scared to dream, scared to start. She was not scared to start, she was not scared to dream. And so when it didn't happen for her, that's when I start to sort of tear up a little bit because I'm a 53 year old male who moved to Nashville in a band, a country rock band. Signed and dropped. I've dedicated my career to Them Vibes and some other artists that I've worked with and things just where they're at right now? It's sad I've had to mourn part of my career. I'm not a touring musician. I'm not out there, hustling my own band. I have a band and we can play whatever we want, whenever we want. So I'm free from having to push myself in a direction that I know is just not going to happen. This fame fortune rockstar thing. And yet, guess what? I'm more famous than I've ever been. And I mean that in a funny way! Cause Everywhere I go. It's like, Hey Larry, Oh my G-d Or it's like, Oh my G-d that's the guy from the radio. I love this. It's another Brené Brown. "Let go of who you think you're supposed to be and embrace who you are." I have been doing that for years now, since I started the idea of this show, because I'm letting go of who I thought I was supposed to be. You, Ellen Angelico, seem to me to know who you are, and you were witness to somebody like Shelly who really did know, she knew who she was. EllenAngelico: 00:21:49 I don't get it right all the time. And I don't talk about this in the podcast because I didn't have a lot of great information about it, but towards the end of Shelly's life, she was looking into going back to school. She knew that she wasn't going to be able to keep up the pace that she was keeping up forever. And I think part of that is because she was getting sick. She felt her body slowing down. It's not just this self focused thing of like, I need to know who I am and I need to get back in touch with the core and like hue to myself and be authentic. It's also like circumstances change around you and you just have to kind of go with the flow sometimes. Shelly's story could not have happened at any other time. In Nashville history, Broadway history, human history. It happened when it happened, because that was when we had Garmin GPS units instead of maps on our phones. It happened when it happened, because it was before all the bars on Broadway went three stories and had more, Rock music, party music, wedding music. And Shelly would not have survived in that scene. It would have been totally different. It happened at a different time in American political history. Now members of Shelly's band have very opposing political views. And at the time that Shelly was doing her thing, that wasn't as much of the public national conversation. I don't look back at it and I'm like, man, I wish those good old days were back again. I look at it and I'm like, that was an amazing experience that could have only happened then. And I'm like, now that it's a different thing, there's different scenes happening downtown. There's different scenes happening in my life. And that's okay. That's cool. Like I'm down to just go with the flow of that. It's easy for me to say because I don't see myself as the artist. I don't see myself as the product. It's not like if I don't play Madison Square Garden that I'm going to die unhappy. I don't have those kinds of goals. Larry: 00:23:40 Do you think Shelly died unhappy? EllenAngelico: 00:23:43 God, I hope not. Um, yeah, Larry: 00:23:44 She died in 2015 of cancer, bladder cancer, and it spread. So, she was in a lot of pain. EllenAngelico: 00:23:49 Yes, she was. Larry: 00:23:51 She was a trooper to the end. I'm saying, guys, I listened to this, alright folks? You, giving away some stuff. But she fought to the end. We're dealing with family member right as we speak who is dealing with some issues. She has to decide, is she going to fight or not? She's got to make a decision. And it's really hard. My mother had brain cancer and she ended up passing away, but they took the tumor out and then they sit her down and they go, okay, here are your choices. What do you want to do? And you go, I don't know. Back in the day, people believe doctors. I still believe doctors. I really do. Cause you know what? I'm not a doctor. You know, you come to me about anything else, I can have an opinion, but I didn't go to school for that, so I don't have an opinion nor should I. My mother, they sat her down, and they said, okay, here are your options. What would you like to do? And she said, I don't, what should I do? And it's scary, Shelly chose, she decided

against her doctor's wishes. Her doctor said, listen, chemo, radiation too much. You're too far gone. Why don't you just be comfortable? And she said, no, take me to Texas where there's a treatment that I don't know if it's going to work, but it's hope and her parents did it and they went to Texas and just the fact that they were able to do it together, honorably and with love. It's so beautiful. I'm blown away by it because she chose to fight. EllenAngelico: 00:25:05 Yeah. It is beautiful and it's also like, Shelly was just going with her gut on that. That's who she was in life and it's who she was in death. And so it, it makes perfect sense that when Shelly was admitted to MD Anderson in Texas, and I texted her that everyone downtown misses her tons. She said, "I miss you too. Coming back soon!" Larry: 00:25:26 You didn't expect anything less? EllenAngelico: 00:25:28 No! She was texting people. I got a text. Actually, I've been trying to keep the people who played with Shelly abreast of kind of like all the events that I'm doing around this, podcast. And I texted one of her drummers that I used to play downtown with, and he texted me and he said, I will never forget Shelly tried to get me on some shows while she was in Texas. Like was asking me if I was available for dates at Cadillac Ranch in March. And this is February that she passed away. She believed that she was gonna come back and do those shows at Cadillac Ranch. Larry: 00:25:55 That's a huge thing. I'm friends with a guy named Larry. He's 84 years old. He's a vet. He's like me at 84. So I, I get very afraid. It's like, I'm, I'm dealing with a man. I'm like, this guy seems so familiar. You know, there's something charming about him, but he's got plans. My first inclination, the first thing I did was, Was like, That's not going to happen. Larry, what are you even talking about? And I shut him down and I thought, what the heck is wrong with me? You know what? Maybe it will happen. Maybe you will. 84 year old man that should definitely not drive. Cause you're like Mr. Magoo, who can't see much. Look up Mr. Magoo. It's hilarious, and it's dangerous, but he's like, I'm going to go drive back to West Tennessee and pick up my stuff. Now I'm like, you know what? Maybe you will. Maybe you will. Why should I squash somebody's hope? Who the heck am I? Lord knows I squashed my own hope. Okay. I'm good at that. You are very in demand, your bio is correct. To call Ellen Angelico means that you are a very serious person about your craft. You have a, Should I take this gig flow chart? You take this very seriously. I know people and I've been this way where it's just, Hey, Larry, you want it? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm going to perform. I'm going to please. And I'm going to prove my value, my worth. I'll say yes, I'll do everything great. And we're going to be best friends and everything's gonna be wonderful. And I have all these ideas and I bring everything to the table and. What am I doing?

Zero boundaries. Larry is gone. And I'm not happy because I'm not taking care of myself. It's not just being a kid that just wants to play. There's a little more, we got to take care of ourselves. We have to eat, pay the rent and our mental health and our physical health. Going, driving 8 to 14 hours in a van with Shelly, it was very unhealthy. You've done that and you've been in tour buses all around the world. So where are you at now? And how do you feel about where you came from? EllenAngelico: 00:27:38 There's something small that you said in there, which is like, it's not just kids playing, but that is why we started doing this and I started playing music because it brought me something as a kid and I don't ever want to lose my connection to that feeling. And like you, it sounds like there were times that I started to lose my connection to that. And if I can give you a recent example, I have always been interested in local politics and I've always been involved in local races and I tend to know my council person pretty well. My previous council woman noticed that in me and put me up to serve on a Metro Commission and I did that for a couple years. Larry: 00:28:15 Here in Nashville? EllenAngelico: 00:28:16 Mhmm and I became the chair of the Metro Arts Commission. Larry: 00:28:20 Do we still have that anymore? Metro Arts Commission? EllenAngelico: 00:28:23 It's a long sordid story and I would recommend, any of the 85 million articles that came out during my scandal embroiled tenure. But I was Investing a lot of energy into it and not feeling any of that kid like desire anymore. And when I left, I started to regain touch with that. And so when you say, where are you now? I am trying to listen to Kid Ellen with the gigs that I say yes to. Does it make me excited to get up there and play that show, you know? And if it doesn't, just don't do it. It doesn't even have to be, like, for a good reason. It can be just because I haven't played at Lipstick Lounge in a while and, I would like to do that again and they have good french fries, you know? That can be as simple as As it is, but if there's something that's drawing you to it, DO THAT. Don't just do it because you think it's the right thing to do because the person is so famous and you think it's gonna elevate you to this next thing or whatever. Do it because you want to. Larry: 00:29:20 Isn't that easier said than done? I got to eat Ellen. EllenAngelico: 00:29:22 Well, it is and so I have never not had a day job. I've always had a day job in this town and that provides me not with enough money to get by, but with enough of a financial floor to turn stuff down. And Sarah and I talk about this all the time. Sarah is looking out much farther in the future than I generally am for gigs because she's trying to lock down as much time as possible so that she knows that she has that financial security and I don't have to make that choice because I work at a guitar company. Larry: 00:29:50 That's great. Wow. You're very smart EllenAngelico: 00:29:52 I'm just fortunate. I mean, think everybody should work at a guitar store, but also I've been fortunate to work for people that have been largely flexible with me touring and stuff. Larry: 00:30:01 So What's your favorite instrument? You play so many instruments. The Shelly Bush story, we'll wrap that in a minute. Let's go just a little more you, please. What are your favorite instruments? You play them all. It seems all the stringed instruments. What's your first? EllenAngelico: 00:30:13 My first instrument is guitar. And I do feel the most fluent on guitar. When I have a guitar in my hands, I don't have to work hard to communicate what I want to say. So that is very freeing. I also play pedal steel and in terms of connecting with Kid Ellen, that sense of discovery, that hearing something on the radio and being like, I bet I can figure out how to do that! That feeling of wanting to lock myself in my room and not come down in time for dinner. That is what I'm getting on pedal steel. I'm still nowhere near as good at pedal steel as I am guitar. And I probably will never be as good at pedal steel as I am a guitar, but I'm enjoying exploring and that feels like a gift. Just more shows and, get this podcast stuff behind me and just see what's next. I invented a card game about Bro Country Music. It's called the Bro Country Card Game. And, it's running up against a licensing problem, the size of which you could not possibly imagine. And so I'm curious to see what form it can take next and to explore fleshing out that little thing, but like I was saying about you, how your artistry is not just your music. That's sort of how I feel about myself too. And I'm realizing that I don't just have to make albums in order to be the best version of myself that I can be. There's as much of me in The Podcast. There's as much of me in the Bro Country Card Game as there is in any album I've ever made. And I'm as proud of the podcast as I am... I'm even prouder of it than I am of some of the recordings that I've worked on. What's next gosh, I don't know, but the possibilities are limitless. It could be anything. maybe I go back into politics!? I probably won't. Larry: 00:31:48 I would vote Ellen for sure. So, Girl In A Hurry, the Shelly Bush story. What did you learn about yourself now that you've completed? So you started this and what, when did you start this? EllenAngelico: 00:31:57 I started doing interviews in 2020. Larry: 00:31:59 2020. So it's a five year endeavor. What have you learned? What have you taken away from it for your own self? What do you think? Wow, I didn't know this about myself. I'm glad I learned this about myself I would prefer not to know this about myself. EllenAngelico: 00:32:11 Well, I learned that I don't ever wanna do it again unless I'm paid an exorbitant amount of money. I mean, you know, as somebody that is processing a lot of interview tape and is editing and making a

podcast that it is just a lot of work. Larry: 00:32:22 Yeah this will never come out... EllenAngelico: 00:32:23 It better! Um, So much of history is in the telling. Shelly's story is not out there besides this. I felt a lot of anxiety in the weeks before the podcast came out, because I realized that I was holding. Shelly's legacy. Larry: 00:32:42 Yeah. EllenAngelico: 00:32:42 Shelly's memory existed in the minds of her friends and family, and it didn't exist anywhere else until someone, me, came along and translated it to a story that other people could understand. And I was, I'm still scared because what if somebody doesn't like how I framed them? What if somebody doesn't like how they are portrayed? This is Shelly's story, but it's told through an Ellen colored lens. And, it hit me like a ton of bricks because I realized that must be every story is that way. Every story that you ever read in a history book, every biography that you ever read of a musician that you loved, every liner notes that you read. There is no truth to anything. It's all through the lens of our own experience and that's heavy and frightening. Larry: 00:33:29 Well, I commend you for it. It's a fantastic story. It absolutely is. Absolutely. Girl in a hurry. The Shelly Bush story. You inspired me so much to get this going, by the way, you inspired me to revisit this project because I think we need to Just Keep Talking. I think if we keep talking, we're not alone. And I think that Your Story Absolutely Matters. And I encourage people to Just Keep Talking, to share their stories. As Brené Brown would say, "Don't ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive." You, Ellen Angelico, have come alive. I have a few questions just to end this This is my questionnaire. What fascinates you right now? What is something you're really into right now? EllenAngelico: 00:34:11 Well, I really got into, um, Spectral Denoise when I was making this podcast... Larry: 00:34:16 Making the world a less noisy place. I'm all about it. Good! Denoise! We need less noise. Perfect. Great. uh, What pisses you off? What angers you? EllenAngelico: 00:34:26 I read a really interesting book about anger recently, and I can't remember the name of the author, I should look it up, but it was basically about not vilifying anger and allowing yourself to feel angry. And recognizing that anger can sometimes be pointing you towards a broader truth about yourself. It's productive to feel angry. It's an emotion like any other. It doesn't have to be squashed. It should be experienced. And it kind of flipped my brain around on it because I don't personally experience like big emotional swings. I don't have like way high highs and way low lows. Larry: 00:34:57 Good for you! EllenAngelico: 00:34:59 I think that's because I feel some pressure to moderate. I feel some pressure to, make myself and my experience of the world palatable to

people around me. And one of the ways that I do that is by not experiencing anger too strongly. After reading that book, I've tried to get more connected with that, the feeling of anger. Larry: 00:35:15 The question was, What makes you angry? So in other words, understanding anger makes you feel angry? EllenAngelico: 00:35:19 Exactly. No, I would say what I've learned Is that there is a little flicker of anger that happens to me sometimes that I've mostly ignored throughout my life. And it does seem to mostly happen, around injustice. It's not a just world. And, it sucks. Larry: 00:35:35 Well, I want to do a whole series on injustice. I really do. And I think that everybody I speak with and this community that we have here in Nashville and my friends and loved ones, we all have feelings of injustice. The scariest part is that there is no justice but everybody has an idea of what maybe it could look like. And I just think it's something to talk about more. So we'll delve into that another time. EllenAngelico: 00:35:53 Just Keep Talking. Larry: 00:35:54 What, brings you joy? EllenAngelico: 00:35:57 Man. When you have that feeling of making music with other people, where you feel connected to the people you're playing with, you feel connected to the people who are listening, you feel connected to a force of spirituality that is bigger than yourself, bigger than you could just make by yourself. That feeling of communion, that is the best feeling in the entire world, and I'm always in pursuit of that feeling. Larry: 00:36:22 I wish I didn't have one more question because you could end it there, is the hardest one of all. Ellen, toilet paper over or under? EllenAngelico: 00:36:31 Oh, like that. Over? Larry: 00:36:33 Ellen just indicated over and I almost changed her toilet paper before because it's under, my friend. Your toilet paper in your guest bathroom is under. So you're either a liar I'm kidding. EllenAngelico: 00:36:44 It is under now? Larry: 00:36:44 It's under right now. Do you have a cat? EllenAngelico: 00:36:46 No, my brother was the most recent denizen. Larry: 00:36:50 We'll blame on the brother, EllenAngelico: 00:36:51 that bathroom. Larry: 00:36:52 But your answer is correct. Toilet paper over. Ladies and gentlemen, Ellen Angelico. You are a magician of a musician. You play every stringed instrument. You're a producer. You're a gun for hire. You are a gem of a human being. How do we get in touch with you if you want people to get in touch with you? You've got social media EllenAngelico: 00:37:11 Think you could just, um, SHOUT! Really Loud, wherever you are. Larry: 00:37:14 Yeah EllenAngelico: 00:37:15 Yeah, I do. I currently, my social media is all sort of. Bereft of everything that doesn't have to do with Shelly, but I have my website ellenangelico. com and you can always get in touch with me there. Larry: 00:37:24 Oh my goodness Girl In A Hurry The Shelly Bush Story out now. It is a beautiful podcast. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your energy. Thank you for your friendship. You look after me, which I know and you look after Sarah Tomek, my wife. I'm so grateful to know you. EllenAngelico: 00:37:39 You too larry. Larry: 00:37:40 This has been wonderful. Thanks again. Thanks for listening. Just Keep Talking folks. Just Keep Talking. Bye. Bye. Brother Love: 00:37:48 Please like, share, and subscribe. Our YouTube page is at Just Keep Talking Podcast. Instagram is at the Just Keep Talking podcast. We have such a wonderful community here in Nashville. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, we are not alone out there... So, don't forget to use your turn signal!!!