TRANSCRIPT 🔗
Jeff Greenwald: I often have said that I think a three five, four player can often feel more pressure than you know, Roger Federer did or, some of the players finals at Wimbledon, Our bodies are no longer the same, but we can we can really drop into mastery there's there's a whole different sort of approach to tennis when you're as you age and hopefully can accept it and look yourself, in the mirror, and it's not always easy, you know. I've definitely noticed a shift in the last six months. but I'm adapting and and I'm excited actually to to kind of it's sort of the next phase they report playing the best tennis of their life, despite being in their in their sixties, seventies and one in their mid-80s.
Mike Rogers: If you're a competitive tennis player over 50, there's a good chance the biggest thing getting in your way isn't your forehand or your movement. It's the pressure, expectations, and comparisons you bring onto the court. Welcome to Insider's Playbook. I'm Mike Rogers. Today, mental performance expert and fearless tennis creator Jeff Greenwald joins me to talk about why that gets harder as we age and how we can adapt and compete with more freedom. and keep improving. Let's get into it. Hey Jeff, it's great to have you on Insider's Playbook today.
Jeff Greenwald: Great to be here with you, Mike. Thank you.
Mike Rogers: I'm really looking forward to talking about the mental game because that's something that I struggle with a lot and I'm sure a lot of listeners do. So I'll I'll get right into this. in the best tennis of your life, the book you wrote, you talk about leaving your expectations on the court. And I'm curious how does that concept change for senior tennis players who, are playing with decades of self-comparison. versus somebody that's younger that maybe has no history that they're trying to live up to.
Jeff Greenwald: Right. so you know, i it's actually leave your expectations off the court, because we certainly bring enough of them on the court. You you know, so
Mike Rogers: After
Jeff Greenwald: but yeah, leaving your expectations and and easier said than done, of course, right? Like like everything. But yeah, I think that, you know, one of the things that that's challenging, other than an aging body that we'll talk about and what to do with that, right? But But we we we go on expecting to maybe play the way we did, you know, years ago. Or and we're sort of chasing something there that in the past. And so the expectations you know, are really kind of the probably the leading reason people reach out to me. They don't realize that at the moment, but that expectations of playing well, winning, s you know, beating people that you need to beat to stay on a particular USTA league team. And there's a lot of protecting as well. So there's like there's the chasing the rating and and you know, moving up maybe even the lineup and people you feel like you quote should beat. and and and of course as we age there's limitations too. You know, things we need to r you know, be aware of, accept and and sort of adapt. That's the big aspect. So I think it it changes instead of the expectations on the outcome and what you used to do, it's trying to create things that you have control over, f focusing on on metrics that, you know, like like being more consistent and of course, you know, building a different style of game maybe and more drop shots and not hitting as hard and finishing points earlier. So there's there's different expectations that we actually can have control over as opposed to the other sort of more fear based expectations and often relate to outcome, yeah.
Mike Rogers: D do you find that, when you're talking with some of the older players that, they're trying to live up to their younger self, so to speak? I know it's it's kinda like you look in the mirror, you go, God, I don't look sixty-eight,
Jeff Greenwald: Right? Yeah. I mean, I think we all time is such a weird concept and you we have this sort of old you know, it's younger self trapped inside, you know, the the everybody has this younger self trapped inside and you know, it's like but y that is of course the part of the opportunity, you know, the new challenge is to to really accept and and and and maybe even embrace the the new identity that you're creating. I think chance you're Yeah. There's you know, if you think about the you know, the aging demographic, me being one of them, yeah, here, turning sixty this year and I've had my own sort of realizations re recently. and which I can talk what's Yeah,
Mike Rogers: Welcome to the club.
Jeff Greenwald: exactly, exactly. you know, But you get a lot of people now, think about it, who are retired or soon to be retired, may you know, have some disposable income in time, and and tennis becomes a real, you know, a greater passion and and maybe even an obsession, you know, and and and the identities that we have in other areas, what you know, may maybe you're just very successful in your in your job and etc. And of course there's yeah, l all that success, you know, we sort of that we don't lose that drive, you know, so I think that drive can can be transferred into tennis and it becomes can get really yeah, a little we can get a little neurotic about it and we can get in our own way really easily when we're trying to either protect an identity or, you know, c create a new one that really make you know, matters to us. and our self worth actually gets gets can be reflected in winning and losing and where we are on the team and so tennis can start to, you know, create a very heavy backpack o over time if you don't watch out, you know.
Mike Rogers: I know one thing you mentioned in your book too is kind of behaving your way into the zone through posture and walking. So how how can we do that, when when our bodies really don't feel like that, when we're fatigued and, we have soreness.
Jeff Greenwald: Well there's a you know, we do get more adrenaline when we play, right? So
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so people get get the advantage of that if you embrace the adrenaline. and but y you know, while we can't move exactly the the the same way, we're not as explosive as we age, don't have the same flexibility and sort of strength, but we can still be on the court and and walk with it purpose, walk with intention. I you know. know and that chapters a lot about that you know sort of using specific cues and you know whether it's a fist pump or just again like the way that you walk with sort of a determined walk you know and not so caught up in your head and thinking about the last point and beating yourself up which is of course things we we do and so the movement may may it changes but I think we can all continue to apply
Mike Rogers: as we're carrying a lot of you know emotional baggage into you know the court, how is that different from like our identity as you know like when you see junior athletes that you coach now, how's that emotional weight change as we get older?
Jeff Greenwald: when you're older I think that that our you know our worth can be even more connected to to how we do, how we play, whether we're accepted into the you know I'm playing on this team or not. And because it narrows down to to to tennis and that's the that's the big thing. No more work and you know kids are gone. And so I think tennis can can really start to become a the playground for yeah self worth, you know, trying to get that worth and which is pretty similar too to kids who are trying to to to get into college and and play college tennis or professionally and they're you know, the self worth a and I write that in the book too, can overlap greatly with our performance and our results. And we just have to be careful about that and and be aware of it and and walk that fine line there, you know.
Mike Rogers: when you're working with adult league players as opposed to adult tournament players, do you see a difference in that kind of, pressure that they put on themselves because they are trying to maybe make the number one line or they're trying to make sure that, they make the team as opposed to a tournament player who, all I gotta do is worry about me because I'm gonna show up and I'm playing whoever I'm playing.
Jeff Greenwald: So the you know, I often have said that I think a three five, four play player can often feel more pressure than you know, Roger Federer did or, you know, some
Mike Rogers: Yeah.
Jeff Greenwald: of the players finals at Wimbledon, you know, they it's a you know it's a different animal like in that there's more mastery that's happening at the highest level. You hear Sinner talk, for example. But that's where I feel like players need to move toward it and it's such a great opportunity as we age. Our bodies are no longer the same, but we can we can really drop into mastery and like taking pride and get excited about these little you know, working on that v forehand volley and you know, so but I but I think that there's fear in both realms. But at
the at the league level, you know, that five or six can often be feel like a train wreck for them, right? 'Cause they're they're just their game just falls off the cliff a bit more. You can get away with a more if your technique is more sound and you've had you know a lot of those experiences. 'Cause a lot of league players, you know, they do come to the game late like yourself, and they haven't played in front of people and the captain watching and all of that's that's sort of being being observed and maybe judged. And so there's a lot of fear for sure, in the adult league USTA scenario, you know.
Mike Rogers: Well and that's the I guess maybe that's why I don't fear the the age group tournaments as much 'cause you know, I don't have the the baggage there. I don't have the reps and I know I don't have the reps that you know, somebody who's sixty five now and has been playing since they were a kid. I'll
Jeff Greenwald: Yeah.
Mike Rogers: I and I'll never get the reps. I mean it's impossible.
Jeff Greenwald: Right. Right. Right. So and there that brings in the the you know, the idea of adjustments, being able to make good adjustments and having had that experience, you know, and that's still a challenge at all levels, but you know, getting more confident in your ability to adjust and adapt in a match or otherwise, even with your game over time, to kind of start playing a little bit differently. It's not just power, it's a little more finesse and recovery and there's there's a whole different sort of approach to To to tennis when you're as you age and hopefully can accept it and look yourself, look in the mirror, and it's not always easy, you know.
Mike Rogers: And and then hoping that, you know, you're still around for the ninety fives and
Jeff Greenwald: Right.
Mike Rogers: and by that time I have the reps.
Jeff Greenwald: Yeah, the reps and and Mike, if you make it to the tournament desk at my ninety five, you may actually win the tournament. I mean, there's a good shot.
Mike Rogers: Ha ha ha.
Jeff Greenwald: You know, if you can just get down those stairs and get there, you're right in there. Yeah.
Mike Rogers: So for for someone returning to, play after an injury, like what I'm doing myself. what kind of mental reset would you recommend that I do before, I really start competing?
Jeff Greenwald: coming back and and really embracing the warm up, you know, to to take those extra ten minutes and you know, whether that's get on the bike or do do some movement and do a little bit of stretching if you because, you know, we're otherwise we you know, we put ourselves in harm's way a bit, right? You know, you again you you wanna get you don't wanna let that ball go by. So you kind of make that quick move and that often those those quick sudden impulsive moves can really take us out. And so, you know, the other part is To, you know, we talk about being present, right? Easier said than done again, but like your ability to come back to the moment, you know, one shot at a time, one point at a time, knowing where your body is in space. So after an injury, like being physically present in your body is helpful because I one of the reasons I've been very, very lucky, you know, to with with my longevity, you know, still play, I play, you know, just still being able to play at a pretty high level. because I I I'm aware of my body and and I'm loose as well. So I think there's there's an opportunity for players to kind of find this sort of quote looseness. It's not like relax in the same way, but it's like your muscles are a little looser, a little more elastic and and you kind of know where you are relative to the ball. And so you're not just making these impulsive jerky movements. You're like you're just your your vision is is holding you know, there the server just served and here you are and like you just have more awareness instead of being in your head around I you know, the score and I hope we win because da da da like that's human, but getting back into the present then really helps with coming back from injury and preventing it from happening in the first place.
Mike Rogers: is or happening again, yeah. So
Jeff Greenwald: Yeah. Absolutely.
Mike Rogers: are there any other mental shifts that changes as we get older that you see that might be different than when we were younger?
Jeff Greenwald: I have noticed that I'm not picking up the ball as to my racket. I'm losing a little bit of data with my I I don't know if it's also reaction time. That's go for me personally. I'm this a personal anecdote, but I've definitely noticed a shift in the last six months. but I'm adapting and and I'm excited actually to to kind of it's sort of the next phase of how do I you know adapt and leverage what I know about the mind and the body and really bring that to the table. And that's a that's a really fun I think chance for people to to know themselves know what they can do, what they can't do, and not beat yourself up when you're you're making a few more on four stairs than than before, you know? 'Cause 'cause that does creep in, whether it's reactions, eyesight, movement a little bit, right?
Mike Rogers: As as long as you keep looking at as a learning experience and and you know you can get better as you keep going.
Jeff Greenwald: I have a group right now. they're working actively on their on their mental game and how they show up for matches, their intentions and focus, really knowing what kind of focus. There's different kinds of focus, internal and external focus and all this. And they're applying it and it it's incredible. Like the they report playing the best tennis of their life, despite being in their in their sixties, seventies and one in their mid-80s. it's one who got her first gold ball a couple years ago at 82 or something. You know, so it's pretty exciting. Yeah.
Mike Rogers: I gotta talk to her 'cause that's that's the the dream that I have.
Jeff Greenwald: Phenomenal. She's awesome. Yeah. You can't don't know you you never know. Keep going. Yep. Keep learning.
Mike Rogers: That's it. And and enjoy the journey along the way. So I'm sure,
Jeff Greenwald: Hundred percent. Hundred percent.
Mike Rogers: people listening to this or watching this would love to know more about what you're doing and possibly get in touch with you. tell me what you're doing and what kind of resources you might have for those folks.
Jeff Greenwald: I think one one of the things is just to get into my community and come on over to fearless tennis dot com and I have a free newsletter, sign up there and you get a a PDF from me about fearless tennis and overlaps of the best tennis of your life and something you can have in your bag. And then and then I have the this new webinar coming, and I I'm opening up to eight players and we'll start in September. So I'm excited about that and people can come to my website there and there'll be a link for the fearless tennis experience online. I have a course and you get the course with w if you sign up for the webinar, but that's also available on my site, So in any case, those are a few things, ways for people to get connected to me.
Mike Rogers: Fantastic. Well, I will definitely have those links in the show notes so people can grab that. And I appreciate you coming on today and sharing your insights.
Jeff Greenwald: It's my pleasure, Mike. Thanks for having me.
Mike Rogers: A lot of what Jeff talked about today comes down to changing what we expect from ourselves as we get older. We can't keep comparing our game today to the player we used to be. We have to focus more on what we can control and stop letting ratings, lineups, wins and losses define how we feel about our tennis, and recognize just how much pressure we can put on ourselves, even at the recreational level. But maybe the biggest takeaway is that adapting doesn't mean giving up on getting better. As Jeff shared, players in their 60s, 70s, and even 80s are still improving and, in some cases, playing the best tennis of their lives. If this helped you and you want to keep improving, do me a favor and hit subscribe so you don't miss the next one. And I'll see you next week on Insider's Playbook. I'm Mike Rogers. Until next time, play smart. And compete strong.