Full Transcript for She lost everything. It made her a better leader, Corrine Gavlinski with Sindy Thomas.

00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:22.720 And so that's the differentiator that I bring to my work, which is to say it's a bit more of a dialogue, not a session where I'm doing nothing but answer asking questions of my client all the time. 00:05:22.879 --> 00:05:28.639 It's a give and take relationship, and it's one meant to be grounded in strategy and action. 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:30.639 So, how do we understand this situation? 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:32.000 How do we dissect it? 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:35.519 How do we strategize what to do and how do we get into action around that? 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:36.160 Okay. 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:36.959 All right. 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:40.319 Um, I was gonna say something I lost my thought. 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:43.839 Um oh, here it is. 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:55.040 So what you are doing now as being a thought partner is you are actually bringing your life's experiences, best practices to them and sharing with them. 00:05:55.279 --> 00:05:56.879 That's why then okay. 00:05:57.360 --> 00:05:58.079 Wonderful. 00:05:58.319 --> 00:05:58.639 Okay. 00:05:59.279 --> 00:06:07.600 Um, so tell us you had a major life change and expand on how it altered your perspective. 00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:09.680 I've had a couple. 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:21.920 Um I I call them identity jolts because they really do tend to bruise the ego and make you really take stock of what's important. 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:33.759 Uh, the one that more recently really impacted the way I work um was that I I cared for two parents that both had different types of dementia. 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:46.000 And over about a decade, um I was in a caregiver mode and tried to be a mom and a wife and an executive in a corporate job that I cared very much about. 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:48.000 That's and that was untenable. 00:06:48.560 --> 00:07:00.399 Um, I ultimately quit my job at the height of my career at what would have been my highest earning years and um had to take a break. 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:14.000 And that was both scary um and required because I wasn't doing, I didn't feel I was bringing my best to any of my roles, let alone my executive role. 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:39.279 And I think what that period taught me more than anything is that when the enormity of what you're dealing with, whether that's a um an ill parent or a very politically sensitive situation at work, it's very easy to become completely overwhelmed and almost get stuck and frozen, such that you really can't take action. 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:45.680 And what the experience with my parents taught me is there wasn't any choice but to act and keep going. 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:53.680 And I had to get very precise about what was most important to act on today, right this moment. 00:07:54.319 --> 00:08:00.639 And I think that's the perspective that I can bring to my clients that they don't often have time for. 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:17.839 You think about an executive today, they're

hit with a barrage of things to make decisions about, um, handle um, you know, all the barrage of reactivity that they're going through every day because there's a fire drill or one of their team members needs them. 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:26.560 They don't often get out of executive function and into any type of perspective um setting or even creativity. 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:29.920 Creativity really starts to fall off um the cliff. 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:44.480 And so working together allows them that time to gain perspective back, both mine being an outside neutral observer, and theirs because they have time to actually sit quietly and think about it. 00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:45.120 Okay. 00:08:45.840 --> 00:09:00.559 So now that you've had this shift, and you know, very often our life experiences do cause us to shift because they're they're major, and we start to see things differently just because of the experience that we've had. 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:03.440 And and I will say I'm a caregiver right now. 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:09.679 And I we also my sister and I cared for my our parents, so I understand what that means. 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:17.759 Yeah, why do you define success now from where you did before? 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:18.720 Yeah. 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:23.039 I'm a little embarrassed by this, but we might as well be honest about it. 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:25.440 I was really self-centered. 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:32.559 I was um throughout my whole career outwardly very, very successful. 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:37.519 I was someone who was wired to just get things done and I was rewarded for it. 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:40.159 I climbed the ranks pretty quickly. 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:45.200 Um, I was pretty adept at navigating relationships. 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:52.559 And most of how I defined success was all about my own personal achievement. 00:09:53.679 --> 00:10:00.240 Caring for and ultimately losing my parents really brought me up short. 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:13.360 And probably for many reasons that I don't even fully understand, I really started to shift to how am I really making an impact on the world that I'm playing in? 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:16.240 Um how am I lifting others? 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:21.679 How am I teaching others what I sort of innately know how to do? 00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:38.799 And how can I help people who might be in a different yet similar situation of overwhelm, if you will, to move through that in a way that achieves what they're trying to achieve, both for themselves and for their team members. 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:48.000 So I became a lot more self-aware and I became a lot more focused on others as opposed to myself. 00:10:48.159 --> 00:11:03.600 And so today I say that I want my business to be flexible, I want it to feel um free to do the work that I want to do, but I must be adding value to the individuals that I work with. 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:06.320 And I have to work with people I enjoy working with. 00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:09.919 So I'm not for everybody and I'm okay with that. 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:25.039 Um, I like to work with executives who have a little bit of self-awareness, who want to move forward and grow, and who recognize they have something that they're not quite sure they know how to navigate alone, but they're afraid to talk about it. 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:25.759 Mm-hmm. 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:27.440 Okay. 00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:32.960 Well, you know, you can definitely hear that trend of self-awareness growing in you. 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:42.320 Um, you know, it it dealing with those kinds of life events, really, you know, I think of the Bible, you know, cutting the wheat from the shaft, right? 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:46.240 It really helps you crystallize what is truly important in life. 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:46.559 Yeah. 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:49.519 And then you can adjust how you want to deal with that. 00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:50.000 Yep. 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:52.639 And it sounds exactly like what you did. 00:11:52.799 --> 00:12:00.320 And um, and then one of the other things that you said, um, you know, I really only want to work with certain people. 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:02.159 I feel the very same way. 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:06.720 Um, and being in business for yourself allows you that. 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:07.919 It does. 00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:08.879 It does. 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:18.960 Do that because when you're stuck in the comp uh company, you've got the boss, you've got um, you can walk in, you know, you may get hired as the manager, but you inherit a team that was there. 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:25.360 And you telework with whatever materials, and I'm speaking of uh people materials that are there. 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:26.559 That are there, that's right. 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:28.240 You're you know, operating within. 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:28.960 That's right. 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:34.480 I think losing my parents though gave me a real awareness that I'm not for everyone, right? 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:40.639 I'm not the the necessarily the thought partner for every single person out there, and I'm not trying to be. 00:12:40.879 --> 00:12:44.480 Um, you know, I have a very direct personality. 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:49.759 I have a very uh I can be a bit sassy sometimes and humorous. 00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:59.360 Um, and I'm not afraid to shine the light on an executive that I'm working with to say, you know, for example, you've said this six times. 00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:02.080 What what have you actually done about that? 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:07.279 Um, which often brings them up short and is something that not a lot of people at work say to them. 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:11.120 Well, they won't because there's a power dynamic they're afraid of. 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:12.080 That's exactly right. 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:17.279 Um, you know, if you're the one that doesn't

have the power, you're kind of going along with the process. 00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:17.919 That's right. 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:18.720 That's right. 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:34.720 It's the unusual person that will tell you, but um, and emotionally, um uh a high level of emotional intelligence, um, you know, they or maybe they've just operated that way throughout their lives, they're very direct. 00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:39.919 And um, you know, that will tell you, no, I don't think that's a good idea. 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:54.639 But it also has to be an environment in which somebody feels safe to do that because yeah, you know, I've worked in environments where you speak, you know, feel and agree, you're penalized for it. 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:57.039 They remember and it comes back to help. 00:13:57.279 --> 00:13:57.440 Sure. 00:13:57.679 --> 00:13:58.240 There's risk. 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:00.159 So yeah, there's there's risk. 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:10.480 So there's, you know, I I talk often with clients about there's a narrative and a perspective or perception of you that starts to form, right? 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:15.120 And once that forms, it's very difficult to break out of that. 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:24.000 And I always say, let's get ahead of that and work on that before it crystallizes and you can't change it. 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:31.600 Because the moment a narrative has formed that you can't change, it's very difficult to be successful at that company. 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:33.840 If it's a negative perception, obviously. 00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:36.960 Um and that's tricky. 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:37.919 That's really tricky. 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:38.240 Yeah. 00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:40.639 It takes a lot of work to change that perception. 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:41.279 That's right. 00:14:41.600 --> 00:15:03.759 Tell us more in depth about the programs that you use to help leaders transform their leadership so that they're helping people rather than being about more about what they want and really being inclusive in their management style and um listening to their their directs and then hearing what their directs are telling the people that are supporting it to them. 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:05.039 Yeah, absolutely. 00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:11.279 You know, I work with um predominantly executives or senior level managers, leaders. 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:26.559 Um and so often, if I'm just completely frank, a lot of our initial conversations are about themselves because we need to get a grounding on what they're what they're dealing with and and where they see growth that they want to tackle. 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:34.960 But quite shortly thereafter, we really start to focus on the talent that they have around their table. 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:39.919 How are they utilizing that talent in a complementary way? 00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:46.480 Do they even understand what their people want in terms of their own growth and progression? 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:49.120 Do they have a succession plan? 00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:55.440 If so, what are they doing to challenge those individuals or individual that they see seceding them? 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:58.559 Um, we get right into those kinds of things. 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:04.480 You'd be shocked at the number of people that I work with that don't hold regular one-on-ones with their team members. 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:08.080 And when they do, they're tactical and not developmental. 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:16.159 So I always encourage leaders, especially at an executive level, you need to be having a development conversation with every team member. 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:19.039 Now, that doesn't have to be every week, of course. 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:32.080 That would be um silly, but you do need to be having it and you need to understand what their desires are because otherwise you may be thinking about their progression in a way that doesn't align with what they even want. 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:33.200 Exactly. 00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:34.000 Exactly. 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:39.039 So those are some of the things that we focus on in terms of team development. 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:54.639 Um, and often, you know, some number of months after working together, an executive will tell me this, you know, this strategic or political issue that we've been discussing, I can sense that it's impacting my team as well. 00:16:54.879 --> 00:17:01.759 And when that occurs, that's when we utilize something I call the executive table read or the XTR. 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:07.359 I named it after something that a director might do in a movie production. 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:11.359 You know, they they get their actors together and they do a table read of the script. 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:21.519 Likewise, I do a bit of a table read with that leader and his or her team to say what capabilities are inherent on this team? 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:23.200 How are we leveraging them? 00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:25.519 Where might conflict points exist? 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:33.759 And how do we get into action around the things that the team says are most important behaviors to get to their performance goals? 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:42.960 It's a very short type of team engagement that can be done in under 45 days, and it just accelerates performance. 00:17:43.279 --> 00:18:01.200 I do it because probably you as well, Cindy, have have been through countless numbers of assessments and team meetings where they're fun and engaging, and you do become closer to your team members, and then promptly no one ever discusses it again. 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:11.920 And so this is an activity directly to combat that, where we go through this exercise and then every 90 days thereafter, we're remeasuring together. 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:12.799 Oh, nice. 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:15.119 There's a constant accountability loop. 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:22.720 I do like the fact

that you include, you know, you're not just speaking to one level of the issue, right? 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:36.720 Um, that you are including the team with the um with the um executive and engaging them in the process because I think what happens very often, that step is missed. 00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:51.440 You know, you're dealing only with the executives and um they may not uh understand, as you were saying, the depth of experience and skills that their team has. 00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:56.160 Absolutely, and um may not know them well at all. 00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:59.680 Just on the level, they may not. 00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:07.599 Yeah, because they're so they're so um busy, you know, doing their executive thing that they don't have the time to share. 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:08.160 Sure. 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:16.720 Even the most well-intentioned leaders, I think, fall down a little bit on really understanding their team members. 00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:17.200 Yeah. 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:32.559 And when, you know, and what and the other thing that is often true is that very high performers, very high producers are often elevated to leadership positions without a lot of leadership background. 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:45.039 And so that can sometimes create a real recipe for a failure to understand your team members because that person has been rewarded his whole life or her whole life for producing. 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:49.839 And now their goal is less about producing and more about developing. 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:52.000 It's a pretty big transition to make. 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:52.880 It is. 00:19:53.119 --> 00:20:00.000 And um, if you don't have those skills, um, you make so many mistakes and you lose good people. 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:00.960 That's true. 00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:05.759 Does one area seem to be more in line with what leadership needs today? 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:09.599 Because there's so much happening in the world of business. 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:16.480 Um, a couple of years ago, developing your emotional intelligence or even being aware of it was a big deal. 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:19.519 Um, so maybe people are a little more in line with that. 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:25.119 But you know, it could be just a fad and they heard about it, and you know, then they've moved on to something else. 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:46.960 Or um is it putting AI, figuring out the AI solutions to business, or um managing in this business evolution is a good word for it, um, of what's going on because of AI and the economy and everything. 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:52.400 So, are you seeing any trends right now with the executives that you're dealing with? 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:57.279 Um what seems to be the biggest issues with them? 00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:58.640 You're not wrong. 00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:06.240 Um, all of those things have had emphasis and been widely talked about in the news and corporate leadership circles. 00:21:06.880

--> 00:21:12.079 And they all sort of, you know, ping upwards and then drop back down again, right? 00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:18.319 Um AI is certainly a very timely topic. 00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:22.000 Lots of people talking about how to use it, where to use it. 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:24.079 Oh my gosh, how do I get up to speed on it? 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:26.319 Wait, I've got to get the team up to speed on it. 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:28.720 There's a lot of conversation around that. 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:30.799 I'll be honest with you, Cindy. 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:45.519 I think the work that I'm doing with my clients is less about the topic of the moment in corporate leadership circles and tends to be really grounded in the basics. 00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:52.559 One thing that commun that AI is not going to take away is the need to be able to communicate well with others. 00:21:52.799 --> 00:22:08.559 No, and when you are trying to progress your career and you are trying to navigate What will inevitably be some politics somewhere in your corporation, you have got to understand how to communicate with people. 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.920 And that is not something that AI can get you out of or into. 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:13.759 Right, right, exactly. 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:22.559 And so we focus a lot on what sounds really basic and simple, but is extraordinarily important. 00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:39.839 Having the right presence in the room, having the right um ability to read the room, being able to know and manage when your emotions are flaring, knowing when to stop talking or when to assert yourself is critical. 00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:41.680 And AI is not going to be a solution. 00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:42.640 No, it's not. 00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:43.279 It's not. 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:47.920 Those tend to be more along the um lines of emotional intelligence. 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:56.160 So how are you training or helping them to find ways to improve upon those different things? 00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:56.960 Yeah. 00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:05.759 Fortunately, I've worked with uh quite a few men, in fact, who do have some level of emotional intelligence. 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:18.079 And I think maybe I draw them in, I don't know, but you know, they um do have some amount of self-awareness and some amount of emotional regulation. 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:19.440 That's step one. 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:28.400 I think when you don't have that, it makes it very difficult to know that you want to grow in those areas when you don't even recognize it in the first place. 00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:39.039 Um, one of the biggest tactics that I focus on with clients is how to recognize when you are feeling emotionally unregulated. 00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:45.599 And this treads into some woo-woo territory, which I'm not a woo-woo type of thought partner at all. 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:47.519 But here's where it's effective. 00:23:47.839 --> 00:24:10.640 If you can catch yourself from uh making a few comments that maybe you shouldn't say, or being extraordinarily direct with someone who needs a bit of sensitivity, you will build greater trust among your team or your peer set than if you don't do those things. 00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:19.680 And that's important because in order to have influence and make an impact in your leadership, you have got to have trust. 00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:29.680 And so while it starts out perhaps a little bit woo-woo, the action part is you will not have the influence or impact you want unless you build this trust. 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:37.759 And when you yell at someone or say things you are thinking, but maybe shouldn't be said, you're eroding that. 00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:41.680 And so we work on how where do those things show up for you? 00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:44.960 How do you know that you're you're feeling that way? 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:48.559 How do you take a moment to stop yourself and get curious? 00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:55.680 And what do you say next that matters so that you don't blurt out the thing you want to say? 00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:00.799 So we work on techniques around that quite a bit. 00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:03.759 Um, and that's really effective. 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:06.000 Interesting, interesting. 00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:08.640 You know, I read something online yesterday. 00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:11.680 I was on LinkedIn, um, always on LinkedIn. 00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:41.920 Um, and someone had uh it was a comment about respecting others, and um you know, if you work, I was always in later life very careful about who I worked for because um they had to line up with what I believed as a human being, not to mention, you know, be a good manager. 00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:54.319 And um I think if individuals can do that, maybe they won't be subject to those outbursts of temper. 00:25:54.559 --> 00:26:12.319 You know, if you can do your research and talk to to individuals that are on their teams, you know, and find out what kind of manager they truly are, um uh then you might have a better chance of not dealing with some of that stuff. 00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:16.480 But it's also imperative on the employees part not to take it. 00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:17.519 Without question. 00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:20.000 Without question, they uh excuse me. 00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:24.079 I it's like basically I can't hear what you're saying because you're yelling at me. 00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:27.200 But when you calm down, let's have this conversation. 00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:31.279 And I think employees need to know that they have that right. 00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:32.160 Yep, you know. 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:39.200 You know, my 52 people are so you know, you're you're you're thrown off base, you kind of don't remember what to do, right? 00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:41.279 At the moment, you just kind of stand there and take it. 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:50.880 I've had that happen to me,

and I just kind of went to another place and listened to it and left the room because it was a power dynamic where my company had been acquired. 00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:55.759 Yeah, and all these people were not in my stratosphere before, right? 00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:00.319 Um, and so you kind of don't know how to deal with it. 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:02.720 It's not something that you would have signed up for. 00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:03.680 Yeah, yeah. 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:06.480 I think there's two truths about what you just said. 00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:10.559 Even the best leader can sometimes have a bad day, right? 00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:13.440 So, um, yes, do your research. 00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:17.519 Yes, speak with some team members that already have reported to that person. 00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:25.359 I think the real hallmark of an impactful leader, though, is someone who's not afraid to say, I had a bad day. 00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:27.680 I shouldn't have said some of those things. 00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:29.519 I'm sorry, right? 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:34.720 Seems sort of like what our grandparents or parents would have taught us. 00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:37.759 I think it's probably lost in the corporate world. 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:42.240 Um, there's nothing in the world right now, in the world in general. 00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:44.400 There's no weakness in doing that. 00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:47.920 In fact, I would argue it it's a strength for a leader. 00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:50.160 So I think that's the first truth. 00:27:50.319 --> 00:28:06.640 The second truth is as an employee, you absolutely, in a professional way, have a right to not necessarily be on the receiving end of some kind of very direct conversation. 00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:10.880 I I just had this conversation on Tuesday this week. 00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:28.960 One of the easiest ways to create a little space between the person coming at you and your own emotion about receiving that is to just name what's happening with the phrase, it seems like. 00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:38.079 So if we say, it seems like you're trying to tell me this, or it seems like you're very frustrated with X. 00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:40.720 It does two things. 00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:53.519 It allows you to lower your own defensiveness, which is no doubt happening, right, as an employee, and it makes that leader or a person, other person, uh, stop. 00:28:54.960 --> 00:29:01.279 And often will say, No, that's not what I'm trying to say, or no, that's not it. 00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:06.640 Which then allows them to pivot their conversation. 00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:09.519 Doesn't always happen, but it's a good segue. 00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:12.000 And it buys a little time in the conversation. 00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:14.880 So it seems like is a great technique. 00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:16.160 That's a great tool. 00:29:16.319 --> 00:29:18.240 Thank you for sharing that because you're welcome. 00:29:18.559

--> 00:29:33.359 That's something that um can really be used today, especially with the amount of stress, the amount of work, the the immediate uh changes of direction that are happening. 00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:45.039 You know, I worked in, I don't want to, I won't say the name, but I worked in a um healthcare organization that changed its focus, you know, very other month. 00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:48.240 So I was like, what is going on here? 00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:51.680 These people don't know how to manage, they don't know how to plan. 00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:53.039 What is the deal? 00:29:53.519 --> 00:30:05.359 And um, you know, it's it becomes very frustrating because you're always starting over again as an employee, yeah, instead of uh building on what you've put, you know, in place. 00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:07.839 So um, yeah. 00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:12.799 Very, very, very good tactic, it seems like. 00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:15.839 It seems like too simple. 00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:19.680 Well, you know, some of the best things are, right? 00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:20.160 Yeah. 00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:33.519 So how would you coach a leader who's quietly struggling with a life-changing event that still has to work because of whatever the circumstances are, and I think most of us can relate to that, right? 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:45.200 You're still gonna have income, no doubt, and to to deal with all their work issues and things that are going on, yeah, yeah. 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:48.400 I and it you raise a very valid point. 00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:51.440 Not everyone can quit their job like I did, right? 00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:57.200 And that was a very um risky thing to do for a variety of reasons. 00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:02.720 Um, and I was also very, very fortunate that I could do that, right? 00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:04.160 Not everyone can. 00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:06.400 So I fully acknowledge that. 00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:21.279 If I were working with someone who was, you know, under the enormous pressure of having both a very big personal crisis and potentially a lot of work, uh, not only demands, but just maybe there's a crisis at work too. 00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:33.279 I would get them very, very focused on exactly what we touched on earlier, which is what is the precise thing you need to act on right now, today. 00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:36.400 So let's not dissect the whole big picture. 00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:38.480 Let's get really focused. 00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:53.279 Um, we would also talk a lot about what's within their control and what's not within their control so that they can start to understand where to spend their energy and not spend energy on things that they actually don't have any control over. 00:31:53.839 --> 00:32:09.359 So precision, focus, um, what's within my control, and how do I take the most immediate action that addresses what's needed right now, instead of trying to boil the ocean, so to speak. 00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:22.559 That is effective because when you do that time over time over time, session over session over session, that you're working with someone, all of a sudden you have a lot of actions under your belt. 00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:25.279 And then that starts to feel like progress. 00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:30.000 Some of that pressure starts to relieve a little bit. 00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:34.000 That doesn't mean that the emotional toll isn't still there. 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:40.079 It's that we can usually withstand quite a bit of emotional toll when we feel like we're making progress. 00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:56.799 And so my goal is always to get people into action so that we can see together this momentum, if you will, or uh, you know, of achieving very small things. 00:32:56.960 --> 00:33:05.039 Um, it's not dissimilar to what people do in nutrition coaching or uh strength training. 00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:14.240 You want to get a series of small achievements, small actions that pile up suddenly feel like a big deal when you've got enough of them assembled. 00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:18.319 And so that's that's the way that I take my clients through that. 00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:18.640 Right. 00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:20.319 So how do you eat an alpha? 00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:21.680 One bite at a time. 00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:23.279 One bite at a time. 00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:25.039 That's right. 00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:34.400 Um, if you could leave one message for high-achieving leaders who feel just maybe a little lost momentum. 00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:58.079 One of the things that I think was the biggest mistake in my career was never even contemplating the value that it would have been to my career had I sought counsel, had I sought a neutral, confidential thinking partner. 00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:01.359 It never even occurred to me. 00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:19.360 I was so, you know, I was high achieving and so grounded, wired in my own ability to solve problems and my using my own judgment to get there, it actually didn't even occur to me until it was too late. 00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:21.199 And it cost me. 00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:34.559 So I think the thing I would say to executives and high achievers is don't underestimate the value of having someone neutral in your camp. 00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:37.119 It's a real competitive advantage. 00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:42.559 And sometimes when you're that high achieving, it doesn't even cross your mind. 00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:46.480 Because your your abilities have gotten you that far. 00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:46.960 Yeah. 00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:47.679 Exactly. 00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:49.039 Relying on yourself. 00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:51.039 You've relied on yourself, and that's worked. 00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:55.679 You know, but um still you feel like you've kind of done it. 00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:56.400 Yeah. 00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:57.440 Yeah. 00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:06.320 And I think, you know, people that are

high achieving are usually um, they're problem solvers, they're strategies usually. 00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:10.000 Um, they are get stuff done kind of people. 00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:13.760 And sometimes it's okay to not have to do that all alone. 00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:14.960 Yeah, yeah. 00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:36.239 Now, a lot of the organizations that I've worked with, maybe the last 13 years of my career of working for other people, the people um at the top of the organization were much more aware and you know they would get coaching for their, you know, rising executives and the ones that were already, you know, established executives. 00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:39.360 So a good organization will do that for you. 00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:42.079 But a lot don't. 00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:43.360 A lot don't. 00:35:43.519 --> 00:36:02.079 And so then it's up to you as an individual to decide what is possible for me if I had someone who was a trusted colleague who's been there in the rooms that you're in. 00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:04.960 What more would be possible for me? 00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:05.519 Exactly. 00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:09.280 What more could I achieve, or what more impact could I have? 00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:11.679 Yeah, and it helps with the learning curve. 00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:14.000 You don't have to learn everything. 00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:20.400 You know, by trial and error, you can work with someone and they can share different insight. 00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:30.239 They can help you learn outside of the bounds of your um company and work sphere so that you aren't failing. 00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:38.159 You know, you have a little more ammunition to actually come into the room and make some wiser decisions. 00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:38.639 Absolutely. 00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:42.320 Uh um more effective contributor. 00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:47.599 So, I mean, there's lots of um obviously advantages to coaching. 00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:50.639 I, you know, do my own part with career coaching. 00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:58.559 So um I think that with what is going on, I think people will be doing more coaching. 00:36:58.719 --> 00:37:09.679 I think they'll realize it's another avenue for them to figure out, especially now, what this evolution of business is. 00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:12.559 What do I want to do, and how do I get there? 00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:15.760 And for every level, there's the right coach. 00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:22.800 So how do listeners get in touch with you if they want to learn more about you and your coaching programs? 00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:23.599 Yeah. 00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:27.840 The best way to find me is at thegavgroup.com. 00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:32.159 That's the name of our company, thuggavgroup.com. 00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:38.800 Um, they can find me there or Corinne at thegavgroup.com is another way to email me directly. 00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:44.079 If you come to the website and you fill out the contact form, that comes directly to me. 00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:46.239 There's no sequence afterwards. 00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:48.719 It's you're just communicating with me. 00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:51.039 Get into conversation. 00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:52.719 All right, wonderful. 00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:56.800 Well, Corinne, it's been my pleasure to speak with you this morning. 00:37:57.119 --> 00:37:58.000 Same, Cindy. 00:37:58.159 --> 00:37:59.039 It's been my pleasure. 00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:00.320 I've thoroughly enjoyed this. 00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:03.039 I want to thank you for being an outstanding host. 00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:04.960 Well, thank you so much. 00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:06.800 I appreciate that too. 00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:12.400 All right, well, I will allow you to get um on with your day. 00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:16.400 And um just thanks so much for being here. 00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:29.440 I think that you shared, especially for the um more senior people that I am uh have as listeners and are in within my circle, it's it's a real helpful conversation to have. 00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:30.559 You're so welcome. 00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:31.679 I was pleased to be here. 00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:37.599 Okay, I'm gonna describe someone, and I want to know if it reminds you of someone, maybe you. 00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:39.840 You've been looking for a job for a while. 00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.559 You're a strong leader with years of experience, but your job searches stalled. 00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:56.639 You're frustrated, you're not getting interviews, or maybe you are getting interviews, and the interviews that you're receiving, you're not doing a good job in them. 00:38:56.800 --> 00:39:01.119 You walk away and they didn't go as you expected. 00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:06.320 Now each time this happens, it chips away at your confidence. 00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:11.519 You're losing valuable time and you're scared. 00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:16.800 Scared that you're gonna have to settle for a job that's beneath your capabilities. 00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:22.239 If this is you, you need clarity. 00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:32.639 Now, if you want a resume and a LinkedIn profile that finally sound like you, that come across clear, confident, and differentiated. 00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:45.119 If you want to do resumes, pardon me, if you want to do interviews where you can speak about your leadership, impact, and strengths without second guessing yourself. 00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:54.719 Or maybe you want recruiters reaching out because your positioning is sharp and compelling and draws them in. 00:39:55.199 --> 00:40:03.440 What about doing a job search that feels structured instead of scattered, strategic, and aligned with your goals? 00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:16.639 If you're ready for that kind of clarity, contact me on LinkedIn and put in the keyword clarity and I'll reach out to you and we'll figure out what next steps are, okay? 00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:22.000 Now, I want to thank you for listening because your support's a blessing. 00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:26.800 Now, if you enjoyed the podcast, give us a positive rating on Apple. 00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:34.239 And remember, new podcasts are released every two weeks on the first and third Wednesdays. 00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:37.039 And share this with your friends, please. 00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:41.519 Now, before you go, let's speak victory over you. 00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:46.559 No matter what it feels like, you've got a bright future. 00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:51.679 Good breaks are looking for you, and new doors are about to open. 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:56.079 But one thing you have to do is to believe it. 00:40:57.599 --> 00:40:59.760 Believe it, believe it, believe it. 00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:03.119 Now, until next time, take care.