Full Transcript for Vision to Screen: The Director's Blueprint

00:06:03.199 Also, rumor has it that Spielberg actually had difficulties working with a couple of his main stars. 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:10.639 Ironically, Spielberg considers Hook his biggest embarrassment, yet I personally consider it one of his best films. 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:17.839 The best directors don't just show audiences a world, they make audiences believe they've lived there. 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:26.399 All right, everyone, it is time for our featured segment. 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:31.199 Joining me today is director and producer Benjamin Aynert. 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:33.040 Ben, welcome to Inside the Scene. 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:35.120 Thank you so much for having me. 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:37.199 I am so glad you're here, buddy. 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:46.800 Um, I know there are a couple episodes I really wanted you on, including this one right here, because I know you are primarily a director, and that's what uh your main interest is in. 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:50.160 So that's why I wanted you on this one because that's the blueprint of the director. 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:51.519 So it's gonna be awesome. 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:53.120 We're gonna talk about some really cool stuff. 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:55.759 So um, Ben, I've known you for many years now. 00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:58.399 We met roughly about 12 years ago now, I think. 00:06:58.639 --> 00:06:58.959 That's right. 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:02.319 On a student film set in Milwaukee. 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:02.959 Yep. 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:12.399 Um at that time you were a crew member helping out, and we became quick friends, and then we discovered that we lived in the same city, and now we have worked together on four or five different projects. 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:19.759 Um the latest project we've worked on together was the Nightingale, and this was the first full-length production you both produced, you both produced and directed. 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:20.560 That's correct. 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:22.639 So let's start at the very beginning. 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:30.079 Um let's talk about your project because you as a director, we want to use your project as an example because that's what you have experience with now. 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:36.079 And so we want to find out you know, your methods and your way of thinking as a director of your own project. 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:39.439 So, what first of all, tell our audience what is the nightingale about? 00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:49.600 Aaron Ross Powell So the Nightingale is about a uh young prostitute that uh she struggles through this journey of uh she wants to be a singer. 00:07:49.839 --> 00:08:04.480 Um there's a lot of bulliness uh through the movie um where um the pimp and the detective uh are have power of each other, and she just wants to get out of the situation. 00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:06.720 So she just wants to be a singer, and that's it. 00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:08.319 Aaron Ross Powell So she's trying to better herself? 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:09.040 Yeah, exactly. 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:12.319 And trying to move on from her uh her terrible situation that she's in? 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:12.879 Exactly. 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:13.360 Okay. 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:16.160 Did she uh was she in that situation from a young age? 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:16.720 Yes. 00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:17.279 Okay. 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:18.160 All right. 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:23.759 Uh so eventually she was probably kind of like what uh sold into it, given to it? 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:25.279 I mean, how did how did that work? 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:30.720 Aaron Ross Powell Well, you know, she had a bad uh pass of her stepfather and everything. 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:33.840 Um I don't want to give it out too much. 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:46.240 But yeah, she really had a struggle past, and then um there was a scene in the movie that uh the actual pimp and her meets and stuff like that. 00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:48.399 So yeah, you don't that's right. 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:52.960 I'm not expecting you to give away uh too many details because we want people to watch the film to know what it's about. 00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:58.879 But anything uh to get them interested in it when it, you know, if if if when it comes out, you know, for the public. 00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:03.200 Um where did the idea for the nightingale come from? 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:04.480 What does the story mean to you? 00:09:04.639 --> 00:09:21.120 Aaron Ross Powell Me and my wife, we were um in my junior year of film school, I was we were homeless and we were living in motels and hotels, and I lived in families uh my wife's family of my brother-in-law's house and stuff like that. 00:09:21.279 --> 00:09:38.000 So we struggled um throughout the process of my junior and senior year, and I thought why not to bring a story to life uh for a world of struggledness, uh because we all probably go through it. 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:47.360 Like not just being homeless could be somebody going through cancer or somebody that's any topic that really um relates to this film, you know. 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:55.919 Yeah, that explains well the what what the story means to you, um, to your family, to your wife, and where um that part of it came from. 00:09:56.159 --> 00:09:59.440 Um where did the story of the Nightingale, how was that created? 00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:04.080 Like where do the the specific story about what you came up with for the Nightingale, how did that come about? 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:09.200 Aaron Ross Powell So my junior year uh I met a writer in school. 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:10.960 Uh she was a filmmaker also. 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:29.200 We went to the library and I kind of like uh threw some ideas out and she kind of uh we were going back and forth and we just kind of um then she came back like another week later and told me, hey, what do you think of this kind of story about uh the

Nightingale? 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:33.440 And I mean, of course, the story what the title of the movie was not the Nightingale. 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:35.759 It was called Writing on the Wall. 00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:43.840 And in the beginning I thought it was really good, and I told her as I was gonna pay her uh money to do the script and everything. 00:10:44.080 --> 00:10:46.159 So, and she had no problem with it. 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:51.519 And then I pretty much took that story and I found a new writer. 00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:52.720 Uh his name is J. 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:54.320 Anthony Ramonds. 00:10:54.399 --> 00:11:12.399 Uh, we call him Tony, and I met him at Barnes and Noble's, and uh he uh looked at all my scripts that I made in school, and he felt this was the strongest one that he could if he uh could change uh in different ways. 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:19.360 But we kept the lady that was in school, um her name was on Story Buy. 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:22.320 So she didn't lose her credits or anything like that. 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:41.120 So and so then after that, Tony uh mean every day, uh every week we met and we just kind of like kind of like just did this different details, like threw ideas left and right to get the outline perfectly right, and then we kind of just broke it down. 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:46.720 Then he wrote a treatment of it, and then from the treatment we he started writing the script. 00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:50.639 Okay, so Jay Anthony Ramos was the writer of it. 00:11:50.799 --> 00:12:00.879 Um at the end, you know, he did the he did the main part of the film, um, came on um after a couple other people were involved, and then he came on and finished it, right, and did most of the story then. 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:01.519 That's right. 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:11.360 Um I so I know this fairly well because I am also with with Tony, as we call him. 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:20.080 Um Tony and some of the other actors, I am also in the film as well, so I I know some of these facts, but I want my listeners to get to hear them directly from Ben, the director. 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:28.399 Um most directors have a visual style that they have in mind for a f for a film. 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:34.399 And the Nightingale is very specific as to the look of it, the feel of it. 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:40.240 I know you you and I have talked about before some of your favorite um visual styles in films before. 00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:43.120 And one of them that you mentioned was Birdman. 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:48.799 That you love Birdman and you love the long shot that they give in there and everything, and it's eventually you want to do one like that as well. 00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:49.279 Definitely. 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:53.279 Um what was the visual style you had in mind for The Nightingale? 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:58.799 And by the time you wrapped the film, did you feel like you succeeded in getting the visual style you

wanted for the film? 00:12:59.200 --> 00:12:59.919 I sure did. 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.840 Uh I really wanted to make it look like Taxi Driver. 00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:10.639 Um I felt like the darkness of the film and the grittiness of it. 00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:16.799 Uh I don't know if you guys ever seen Taxi Driver, but uh Robert uh Robert De Niro? 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:17.519 Yeah. 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:20.399 Uh he was an amazing actor in there. 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:26.320 And uh the story was really good as as another story about a prostitute movie. 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:28.159 And yeah, with uh Jodie Foster. 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:28.320 Yeah. 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:30.080 Young young Jodie Foster. 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:38.720 So I kind of want to, as a creative activity as a director, I wanted that style, that darkness, the lighting, the sound, everything. 00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:43.360 The I didn't get a lot of things I wanted, but there was some stuff I did. 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:56.000 So what I didn't get was like uh the rain um like going on the road and stuff, like the reflection of the reflection when they're driving and stuff on in the movie and Taxi Driver. 00:13:56.159 --> 00:14:00.960 They had you could see like the traffic lights and stuff on the road and stuff. 00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:02.320 And so I kind of wanted that. 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:09.120 But I get get it that you know, when you're on set, you're you're getting what you try to get as much as you can. 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:16.720 So yeah, and obviously it's always different when you're actually there on set compared to what's in your head like before, like months before. 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:29.679 Um, because sometimes you just have to adapt based on what time you have left, you know, the time restraints or constraints um and uh your location and all that, because it's just some things just go right out the window because you're like, oh, we don't have time for that anymore. 00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:30.720 We have to keep on going. 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:32.639 Um so yeah, that's the that's the hard part. 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:37.200 If you don't mind me asking, um, how much about how much did it cost total for Nightingale? 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:37.679 How movie? 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:38.879 Because you're an independent filmmaker. 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:39.279 Yes. 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:52.720 Um I know I've I just uh I've talked with some independent filmmakers as well in the area, and they try to keep it down, they try to keep it as cheap as possible because independent filmmakers are not are not wealthy, they're not the richest part of Hollywood or anything like that. 00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:54.960 Um and so how how how much did it cost about? 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:55.759 Do you mind telling me? 00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:57.200 Yeah, I have no problem with that. 00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:01.440 Uh we paid uh$78,000 uh on it. 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:08.080

And uh me and my wife, I mean, we worked so hard uh at the same company at a job and stuff. 00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:09.440 And we worked overtime. 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:12.159 We worked like almost 70 to 80 hours a week. 00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:21.600 Uh we knew I knew myself that uh I really wanted this in my heart, just because I want I'm not saying I want to prove anybody. 00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:29.679 I just wanted to make to have a feature film on my uh my uh platform, my resume, I guess you could call it. 00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:30.879 It was a passion project. 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:31.120 Trevor Burrus, Jr. 00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:32.000 It is, it was. 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:33.039 It was a passion, yes. 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:39.919 Yeah, independent filmmaking always comes with financial struggles just because I mean that's what that's what independent filmmakers usually are. 00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:55.519 Usually they don't do this full-time because they have a daytime job and they have other stuff to worry about that they're not able to do, you know, financing and worry about movie 24-7 because they just can't until they until they finally make it and they get their break. 00:15:55.840 --> 00:16:05.759 Um well, yeah, you already answered for me how you got the funding and that you and your wife um you know were working jobs and working plenty hard enough and plenty of overtime to get that um finance. 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:15.759 Well, and also our my my wife's father-in-law um father, um we went over to his house and we were short$10,000 of the film. 00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:18.399 And so I gave him like a pitch. 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:20.799 I and the pitch is like a five-minute pitch. 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:30.480 You kind of pretty much tell you what the story is about and why you need the money, and how do you get how you're gonna get the money back to his pocket and stuff. 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:38.320 So I did, and he can see in my face, I had tears in my eyes coming down knowing that uh I really want this. 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:41.360 And so he gave us$10,000 of the money. 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:46.320 So really me and my wife only paid$68, but he kind of helped us out on that. 00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:47.600 That that's awesome. 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:48.159 That's great. 00:16:48.240 --> 00:17:04.079 And that's another thing, too, is like um you know, when you find either friends or family members who know that you're passionate about it and know that you're passionate about it enough to help uh help you out because they believe in you and believe in what you're doing, then there's nothing better better than that. 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:04.880 Aaron Powell Exactly. 00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:11.519 Um Independent filmmakers or dire directors specifically often wear many hats too, as you know. 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:22.480 That's something people don't always understand about directing, because a director often fee often becomes a problem solver, a producer, a negotiator, a motivator, all at once, all at one time. 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:27.359 So there are a lot of thoughts going on in a director's head, especially when you're an independent filmmaker. 00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:36.000 Um if you had just two or three lessons, um well, what what two or three lessons did you learn as a director and producer while making this film? 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:46.880 Well, I know that um I wanted to get the right actors, and um I knew m pretty much the same step because I went to film school and everything. 00:17:47.119 --> 00:18:01.440 So I wanted to my three lessons would be probably um just making sure you get all your X's and O's in pre-production and just to make sure everything is on site. 00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:05.759 It so then you'll have a better production um on set. 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:21.759 And um and I felt really good with uh getting on schedule and making sure the scheduling and um on low like meaning location, getting actors and crew to be there all in one spot. 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:28.559 And um but and then just everybody just doing their uh roles and stuff. 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:40.720 I felt like everybody did a really good job on you know asking me questions and what do I want as a director, uh like the makeup artists and the camera person and the sound person, the actors and everybody. 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:42.799 So that's awesome. 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:46.720 So I know you've been on many movie sets before. 00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:52.720 Um not I mean, you're just kind of starting out in your director, you know, trajectory here. 00:18:53.039 --> 00:19:04.640 But you've done a touch of acting, you've you've m you know done a sliver of acting a little bit, which is which is cool because I think all directors should know what acting's like too, so you can know how to relate to actors as well. 00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:12.559 Um you you have primarily worked behind the camera for most of your career, but you you didn't start out in directing. 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:15.359 You were pretty much um a gaffer first, right? 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:17.279 You were real you were really big in lighting. 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:17.839 Yes. 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:22.720 Um and then turned into producing, directing, editing, etc. 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:26.720 Out of all the filmmaking positions you've had, which one is your favorite and why? 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:29.440 I love directing, it's my favorite. 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:40.400 Um I know there's a lot of more uh steps and more work you gotta do, but I feel no reason why I love it is uh it feels great when it gets done, the project is done. 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:43.039 And it's I'm not saying it's because uh it's mine. 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:52.079 It just felt really good that I can move the process of a journey of every person and get everybody on task. 00:19:52.240 --> 00:20:03.359 And the other good thing I like

about it is creating your own ideas on just the script itself and then finally get it on camera on the lens and stuff. 00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:04.640 It's amazing. 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:06.480 Seeing the final product. 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.440 Because you know when I you know I started out in musical theater growing up as a kid. 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:27.680 And when you start off on the stage in musical theater, um yes, you you learn a lot about acting and and you know how to perform for a live audience, and the instant gratification for that is the is the audience's applause and their reactions during the performance. 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:30.240 They're what feeds you and they feed your energy. 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:30.640 Okay. 00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:32.640 Movies are quite different. 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:35.759 Um, you don't have that instant gratification. 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:46.799 You have to really persevere and push forward on your own, and you kind of have to motivate each other because you don't have someone watching you um saying, Oh, great job, that looks awesome, whatever. 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:50.880 No, everyone's in the project together, everyone's got a job to do, everyone's busy. 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:52.480 Um, and so you don't get that. 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:56.400 The the gratification that comes from filmmaking is the final product. 00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:56.880 Yeah. 00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:58.720 It's the film once it's done. 00:20:58.880 --> 00:20:59.119 Right. 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:22.079 Once it's edited, once it's out there for people to see, and you see the entire thing, all these weeks to months to sometimes years, come together and you see the final product, and that's what people are gonna see, and you're like, gosh, look at all the all the hassles that we've been through, all the obstacles we've had to go on that we've had to go through, um, this is what it's all for. 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:23.920 This is this is what it's worth. 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:30.880 I I had a lot of uh emotional days um Um throughout the process of this movie Nightingale. 00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:42.880 Uh I mean, and I would just try to like and a lot of people didn't see it, you know, but I would go on the side and just, you know, have tears and crying and just moments moments of this journey going through. 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:48.400 And a lot it hit me really a lot more when it got to the editing uh uh area. 00:21:48.640 --> 00:22:16.240 But I also there was one moment that uh the last scene we were doing the school scene uh in um at uh Parkside and I knew uh The day before the uh we did the house scene first, got home, I got to the hotel and I was swimming, and just tears while I was crying because I knew this this was the end and the end of the production part of it. 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:18.240 And so they were happy tears at the end. 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:19.839 It was happy tears, definitely. 00:22:20.000 -->

00:22:25.359 And then when I got on set, it was just like this is the last scene going out, you know? 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:37.599 Well, it's it's interesting because there many people uh shed so many tears or other ways of emotion throughout the movie making process just because it it's it's very grueling. 00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:42.559 I mean, it's it's very heartwrenching to know that you're putting so much time. 00:22:42.640 --> 00:23:12.000 I mean, sometimes, you know, 10, 12, 16 hour days sometimes for filmmaking, and you're just you're just exhausted and you're just tired as an independent filmmaker because everything relies on you and a few other people, and um the you know, the actors are there, everyone is behind you trying to make this work, and it's very difficult because it takes a long time to accomplish, especially when you need to do so much during the day, and you have multiple hats you're wearing and trying to get everything accomplished as much as possible, as soon as possible, because time is money as well. 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:31.759 Um so yeah, a lot of people, I mean, there are a lot during the filmmaking of like I know what happened in the Nightingale, I know it happens in almost every film, is that sometimes temper tempers flare up, sometimes you get into little arguments with each other, but it's not because people hate each other, it's not because you're upset with each other, it's because everyone's passionate about the project. 00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:32.079 Yes. 00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:34.079 And everyone wants to do the best they can. 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:39.119 Everyone's got i ideas, everyone's trying to listen to the director, but like, okay, what about this instead? 00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:46.960 And then all of a sudden you're super exhausted and that kicks in and you're tired, and it just it just it just naturally happens because everyone wants to do the best job possible. 00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:47.359 Yep. 00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:53.039 And so it's just part of the process, and um no one should no no one's no one took it personally, I don't think. 00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:53.359 No. 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:54.000 Yeah, with that. 00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:56.160 But just yeah, it just one of those things. 00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:59.759 Um what did you learn about directing actors during the production? 00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:07.039 So uh directing actors, I um I learned that uh I know I probably need uh acting classes. 00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:09.599 I only took one class in acting in school. 00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:21.279 But at the end of the day, is I kind of as a director, I kind of just let the actors um do their thing and then I will like do tweaking and stuff like that. 00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:27.039 It just maybe could be like, can you take a pause on there and say your line afterwards or something like that? 00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:38.160 I I just let them do their thing because if I direct too hard, I feel like, it then the actors are kind of like, well, I I'm doing exactly what you want. 00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:43.440 I I want them to have their free of like their theater play kind of thing, you know? 00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:51.599 And then I can tweak a little bit, like, uh Brett, can you pick up that coffee cup five seconds before you say that line or whatever? 00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:53.200 Then he'll be like, okay. 00:24:53.519 --> 00:25:00.000 Or change your dialogue a little bit, or say it a different language or whatever, you know, just a little different things. 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:03.200 I don't really like dabbing too much. 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:11.440 I mostly focus on the how it's gonna go and the blocking part of it, and then I can figure out what I want and stuff. 00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:12.000 Okay. 00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:13.359 Fair enough. 00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:15.440 Um I have a question for you. 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:18.240 You don't have to answer it if you don't want to. 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:22.160 However, I don't I personally don't think it's a big deal to answer it. 00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:26.079 Um because it's speaking from a director's perspective and your own experiences. 00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.240 It's not knocking on anybody's and you're not calling out anybody's name or anything that. 00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:53.119 Um you have as far as your lead actresses that you've that you've worked with before, you've worked with both um ladies who have been actresses first and uh and are trained in acting, and you've worked with models which like a lot of blockbusters do, a lot of movies do, uh work with models who are modeling first and then are kind of changing to acting. 00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:53.519 Yeah. 00:25:53.920 --> 00:26:00.160 Um is there a difference between the two and what was your experiencing in the like what you find to be easier to direct? 00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.319 What's your experience with uh directing these women? 00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:03.200 Yeah, no, Brad. 00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:04.720 I will answer that question. 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:05.599 I have no problem. 00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:26.240 Uh so either way, um the acting with actors uh are a lot easier directing um and telling them exactly what you want uh for, and then they will ask you, like, if uh let me show you, and then they'll and then after that I can direct a lot easier with them uh the actors. 00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:33.200 Modeling is it's a little tougher because they have uh a mindset of what they want. 00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:46.720 And they don't really I'm not saying they don't care about the director's uh vision is, but they kind of kind of go come in uh on the film knowing exactly this is what I want. 00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:51.519 Yeah, and I I'll add a little bit to that too, because I've had experiences with both of them as well. 00:26:51.680 --> 00:27:07.680 And I just I I know from my perspective, um for for the ladies

who have been trained as actresses, um as actors, and they know um you know how to do that properly, they know how to respect and listen to the director and they know who's in charge. 00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:15.519 And um if the director is one who who wants feedback and appreciates you know an idea if they ask for it or whatever, then then that's great. 00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:16.559 They have no problem with that. 00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:27.440 But I have had experience with working with models or co-starring with models or whatever before that that think they're smarter than the d than the director and just do what they want, they act more like the diva on the on the set. 00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:29.279 And that that can't happen. 00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:31.759 Um so I I know what you're talking about. 00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:36.960 Um it is a little bit different and as far as the mindset goes with with each of those. 00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:42.559 Um I just think it's interesting that there's a little bit of a difference there between that based on what they're what they've done in the past. 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:42.799 Aaron Ross Powell, Jr. 00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:47.839 And don't get me wrong, I mean, uh people that do the modeling part, they do a great job. 00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:49.039 I'm not saying they don't. 00:27:49.440 --> 00:28:00.079 Uh it's just the they don't really listen too much to the directors uh what they want on the process of the journey of those movies. 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:11.920 Aaron Powell Yeah, and I just wanted to ask specifically about that um because I know we've had that conversation before, and your last your last couple of two or three projects have um been like a leading lady kind of thing. 00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:16.400 So um that's why I just thought it was uh it was an important uh distinction and question to ask. 00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:18.000 Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. 00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:19.279 Yeah, no problem. 00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:24.000 For the Nightingale, you directed and produced simultaneously. 00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:25.359 Was it challenging to do both? 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:34.319 Yes, and that's why my next film, I really want to find it a producer, um, because uh my big goal is to direct. 00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:47.759 Um then I can do my um steps that I need to do for directing, and then I can find a producer that can do um the producing part the producing, investing, that kind of stuff. 00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:48.240 Yes. 00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:51.599 And they I have no problem for the producer to come on set. 00:28:51.680 --> 00:29:02.400 I have no problem with that because then they can see uh where their money is going to um and seeing how much passion that everybody is on set uh is doing. 00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:03.200 Okay. 00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:03.759 Good. 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:05.440 Um what's next for the nightingale? 00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:06.720 Has it been released yet?

00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:08.000 Uh not yet. 00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:10.960 I'm gonna get on uh a little bit more of the editing. 00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:13.119 Uh I just got a little bit, not much. 00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:17.920 Uh it's not gonna like change anything um of the film itself. 00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:20.319 It's just I just need to fix a little things. 00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:31.279 And then from there, I'm gonna probably go on the website called Film Hub and I learn from other uh filmmakers uh that you could do distribute your own self. 00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:33.680 Um and then I'm gonna try to work on that. 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:42.400 If not, um I I could go and see if there's any other distributors out there that are willing to uh pick up Nightingale. 00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:46.480 And if not, then uh the last draw would be just putting on Vimeo. 00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:50.799 I don't really want to do that because then I don't get the money from the process. 00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:52.160 So you don't earn any money back. 00:29:52.319 --> 00:30:01.279 And yeah, but it'd be nice to uh you know find uh a platform like you know, Tubi or Netflix or something like that just to put it on so people could rent it, people could purchase it, whatever, yeah. 00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:01.680 Right. 00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:02.480 Okay, cool. 00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:14.880 Um let's switch gears a little bit and let's talk about let's let's let's discuss two other famous directors and what their um what their perspectives are for dire as far as directing goes. 00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:18.880 So there's Christopher Nolan, a very, very famous director. 00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:27.119 Um he's a well-known director and screenwriter, known for films like The Dark Knight, Oppenheimer, Interstellar Inception, and The Prestige, et cetera, et cetera. 00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:30.720 Nolan often talks about immersion and practical filmmaking. 00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:35.680 Nolan emphasizes the importance of making short films before making full-length features. 00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:40.880 And he says that it's often it's often more difficult making short films because you have less time to tell a whole story. 00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:46.799 And you've been there, you've told short stories, you've done short stories throughout your filmmaking uh career as a student, right? 00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:56.400 Um you have less time to tell an entire story from beginning because it needs a beginning, a middle, and an end, but you're very restricted with time. 00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:02.079 By making short films, you learn more about structure though, and how to tighten your story. 00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:04.400 Um do you agree with this philosophy? 00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:07.599 Are short films generally more difficult to make compared to full-length features? 00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:28.799 I do agree with his uh what he's saying for sure, because um a lot of the short films that I made in film school, it was more uh pre-production was longer on the script developing and trying to get that uh tight because they're only doing maybe four to maybe four minutes or eight minutes to uh of a film. 00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:34.720 So it and and if people don't know uh about each minute, each minute is a page. 00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:44.880 So so that was really tough to get a story from beginning, middle, and end, where a future film is kind of more broad uh for act one and two and three. 00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:50.079 So yeah, you have more time, you have more leadway to figure out what you're gonna do and more time to tell the story. 00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:57.680 Um Christopher Nolan also revealed that he he believes directors should create stories with layers on them. 00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:02.720 Um you sh you you know there's more to film than what you see on the surface. 00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:07.279 Um that way viewers could rewatch the film and get something new out of it every time they watch it. 00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:08.720 Do you agree with this philosophy? 00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:09.359 I do. 00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:10.799 Having layers in films? 00:32:11.119 --> 00:32:12.480 Yeah, it's almost like an onion, right? 00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:13.759 You were peeling the onions and stuff like that. 00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:14.880 Yeah, just like Shrek, yeah. 00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:15.680 Yeah. 00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:33.680 Yeah, I mean, every every step of every department, you're you're you know, you're bringing your creativity out to your ideas, and then they're trying to develop it in your own eyes and stuff. 00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:35.440 So yeah, it's peeling the eyes. 00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:36.720 Even the actors, too. 00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:41.839 Like they might ask you so many different questions on how you s want to say this or not. 00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:43.279 And just yeah. 00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:44.319 Okay. 00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:48.960 Well, you're you're kind of starting out in your um directing mode. 00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:51.279 I mean, yes, you've done short films before. 00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:58.720 Um you just finished your first full-length feature with the Nightingale, so um you're still fairly new as a director and you're learning as you go. 00:32:58.799 --> 00:32:58.880 Yeah. 00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:00.400 Um like everyone has to, right? 00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:01.440 Everyone starts out somewhere. 00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:06.000 Um do you yet have a personal philosophy for directing and making a film? 00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:20.000 I mean, do you have a a way that you kind of, you know, like I saw talked about Nolan and what he believed people should do, like start with short films, then go to full-length features and make films this way, this way, and this way, A, B, and C. 00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:29.359 Um, do you have a way that you specifically like a vi uh a visual style or a belief at how you make films that

it's that's strictly your idea? 00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:30.160 Yes. 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:37.359 So I'm uh I'm a very like drama suspense uh person that loves that kind of genre. 00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:50.640 And so as me on what I'm directing um in the pre-production part of it, I just like to break down like everything from what I learned in school, I'm like breaking down the script. 00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:58.480 And then what that means is like just breaking down like what kind of lighting, sound, what the location is, how many actors are gonna be. 00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:06.960 Then from that point in, I just kind of go what every step I do, what I learned in school, like the shot list and and learning all the different things. 00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:11.119 So I know that I'm prepped up, ready to go on production. 00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:16.639 So then there's not that much frustration going on between like different departments. 00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:21.039 And so we can we could all um feel good and comfortable. 00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:23.599 And don't get it wrong, there is gonna be stress, no, 100%. 00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:30.159 And that means like you just said, Brett, that is uh the stress is is means w is means well. 00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:38.320 And and because they know that project is is gonna do really well on uh a platform that's out there, you know? 00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:47.840 And so that's why I kind of uh do my steps in school, every one of them, just so I know that it's gonna flow really well in production. 00:34:48.079 --> 00:35:10.400 And not just in production, also in post-production, I make sure everything is locked, make sure everything is good, make sure people that are outside of filmmaking look at the uh uh the final project so they can give me notes and I can figure out where I need a trim and cut in different areas or or maybe add stuff, you know, whatever it is. 00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:16.559 So then from there, when it's locked, then I can move it over to sound design and color grading and stuff. 00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:27.280 So Yeah, and that that's you know a good point to make too because I believe I think m many people who don't know the true filmmaking process um believe that hey, you shoot a movie and you're done. 00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:30.000 Um, but that's only like forty-fifty percent of the work. 00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:31.519 It's just filming the actual movie. 00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:44.000 Because there's a lot of stuff that happens after that in post-production um that you have to do with, you know, color grading and uh, you know um all the editing aspects to it, sound, all that kind of stuff has to happen afterwards. 00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:54.239 So that's and you might get ADR too, like you might have to bring another actor in and that's more money in as a producer, more money that you gotta pla uh put out. 00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:57.440 And each actor is more money to set in there. 00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:16.960 But yeah, and if people don't know what ADR is, it's pretty much uh is a so if we don't get the best sound on production, then we gotta bring the the actor into sound uh like a sound booth area, uh and they will sit in there with a microphone and then they will say their lines. 00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:28.639 Whatever it's not all their lines in uh their film, but there are at least enough lines that we can't hear what they did not hear in production. 00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:36.960 And it could be anything, it could be wind blowing in the background, it could have been cars uh honking horns or whatever, and that's why we didn't hear them. 00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:41.280 You know, there's so many different uh things of why we did not hear their dialogue. 00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:48.960 It could be inside, it could have been an air conditioner or a refrigerator running and stuff, and then their lines, we did not hear them and stuff. 00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:55.360 So I'm glad you explained ADR ADR, because yeah, that some of our listeners probably aren't familiar with that. 00:36:55.599 --> 00:36:59.119 Um let's talk about David Fincher, another famous director, okay? 00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:02.239 The second one, second and last uh director we're gonna be talking about today. 00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:09.039 David Fincher's approach is almost the opposite in some ways, um extremely meticulous and controlled on every aspect. 00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:19.440 Fincher is a well-known director for films like Gone Girl, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, Zodiac, Fight Club, Seven, The Social Network, and many more. 00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:22.800 Fincher knows that he has access to hundreds of people. 00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:24.320 I th I think this is fascinating. 00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:32.000 Um He knows that he has access to hundreds of people sitting in a dark room together, all right, for two, two and a half hours. 00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:34.960 He has access to their eyes, their ears, and brains. 00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:39.119 He realizes what a big responsibility he has as a filmmaker because of this. 00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:54.880 What do you think of Finch Fincher's acknowledgement that he's got a massive responsibility for what he shows on the screen since he's only got a certain amount of a certain amount of time to tell a fascinating story while he's got the audience literally in the dark all to himself? 00:37:55.360 --> 00:37:57.199 I feel like that's really awesome. 00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:05.679 I I don't know how if I would have done that same approach, but I mean that's that's uh phenomenal directing and stuff like that. 00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:08.239 I I I might have to learn that myself, I guess. 00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:10.800 Well, that's an interesting philosophy, if by any means, you know. 00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:22.639 I th I think that's um because when you go to a movie theater and experience you know a

film for the first time and the house is packed, um there's nothing better than that to s to hear and see everyone's reactions the first time. 00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:23.599 You know, that's pretty cool. 00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:23.920 Yeah. 00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:31.199 Um David Fincher is also known for his many, many, many takes on every scene, uh, for every little action. 00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:37.920 He's filmed 30 something takes for as simple an action as someone setting a folder or a book on the on the seat. 00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:43.840 I mean, you know, and on you know, on the passenger seat of the car, he would film 30, 40 takes of that. 00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:45.760 How do you feel about this technique? 00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:52.480 I have my thoughts, feelings, but do you feel like there is a fine line between doing what's necessary and overdoing it? 00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:56.800 I feel like he's I mean, as me as a director, I think he's overdoing it. 00:38:57.039 --> 00:38:59.599 Um I would only do like eight to ten takes. 00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:02.239 Um and then and and that's going from blocking. 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:09.440 Blocking is we're not recording anything, and we're just kind of running through the steps and stuff like that. 00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:21.920 So I feel like if we can block uh st uh f uh block early and get things done that way, then I feel like we could take less takes on it. 00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:28.880 But hey, if as a director you want to do 36 takes, I mean and you get the actors to agree with that, yeah. 00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:45.840 I mean, I feel like they you're gonna get the actors tired, more tired, because now you got to do other scenes, and then timing is another one that we just kept bringing that up to is you know, you might have only 12 hours a day on that location and you do 36 takes. 00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:57.199 It's gonna I mean I know Hollywood is uh, you know, you get it through the whole day for like maybe two pages, but as an independent uh you don't have time for all of that. 00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:04.559 Um Yeah, well well what what we have here are entire two entirely different directing styles. 00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:06.400 I mean Christopher Nolan and David Fincher. 00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:10.239 And that really shows how different directing styles can still produce incredible cinema. 00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:18.800 Um plus these directors are so well known that anyone who agrees to be a part of their films, they know what they're getting them getting themselves into. 00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:19.920 Definitely. 00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:31.519 So when when you get a call from David Fincher, Christopher Nolan, number one, they're they're massive names, they're household names as directors, so you're like uh most people would like uh they don't even have to think about it. 00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:32.559 Yeah, yeah, okay. 00:40:33.119 --> 00:40:34.719 However you want to shoot the movie, I'm for it. 00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:36.159 Whatever. 00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:36.719 You know. 00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:40.960 Well, you know, Ben, it's just about time, um, time to start wrapping up this episode. 00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:41.440 Okay. 00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:43.920 But before you go, let me ask you a final question. 00:40:44.239 --> 00:40:44.400 Sure. 00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:48.000 Um what advice would you give aspiring directors? 00:40:48.800 --> 00:41:03.119 So I would just say is uh just take your time and uh just do every step that that needs to be taken in pre-production, and you'll get a better um um film that's out there and stuff like that. 00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:04.400 That's what I would do. 00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:08.079 I know a lot of filmmakers, directors, they want to fast and rush. 00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:10.960 They got, hey, we got the money and stuff, and let's do it. 00:41:11.119 --> 00:41:13.840 That's great if you could do that uh that way. 00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:20.639 But as me, as a filmmaker, just take your time and and and enjoy uh enjoy the process and stuff. 00:41:20.719 --> 00:41:22.639 So that's exactly what I was just gonna say. 00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:27.280 You you as soon as you started to enjoy and didn't finish it, I was thinking, enjoy the process. 00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:29.519 See great minds take away. 00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:38.880 Umcher, Nolan, your own directing style, advice to future filmmakers or the nightingales? 00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:40.559 Is there anything else you'd like to finish up with? 00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:46.320 Well, I don't know if you want me to bring up uh our new film that's gonna be right now with developing and stuff like that. 00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:47.039 Go for it. 00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:48.000 Oh, okay. 00:41:48.320 --> 00:41:50.480 So we're our me and Brett. 00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:59.440 Brett's my new script writer, and I'm excited because I know he went through uh his bachelor's degree for writing and stuff, script writing. 00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:06.480 And um and I know j j just to make a correction, it was MFA, Masters of Fine Arts and Screenwriting. 00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:06.960 There we go. 00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:07.440 Okay, go for it. 00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:08.639 Sorry about that. 00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:11.440 So he has a degree on writing and stuff. 00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:26.079 So he wrote um, you know, a few shorts that uh in school that I wanted to use, uh, but my teacher didn't feel that I was not uh putting it out there as I really wanted the the film. 00:42:26.320 --> 00:42:28.800 But anyways, I know he's a good writer. 00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:38.559 And and then I like how he takes step by step um from the outline to treatment to writing the script, so it's taking time. 00:42:38.719 --> 00:42:40.639 We don't do any AI stuff. 00:42:40.880 --> 00:43:02.960 Um and um anyways, uh yeah, so the movie is called Divided Trust, and um and the story is pretty much a story that we're just gonna we're working with, but I I can tell you that it is a suspense drama and then a slash kind of like little of uh horror flick elements to it. 00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:05.199 It'll be fun and keep you guessing till the end. 00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:07.360 So just leave it at that. 00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:09.199 And a little mystery to it, too. 00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:09.440 Yeah. 00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:15.199 So it'll be it'll be a lot of fun and I'm anxious to uh to get uh moving on that at high speed. 00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:16.719 So um well, great. 00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:18.000 Um perfect, Ben. 00:43:18.159 --> 00:43:20.559 Thank you so much for coming on inside the scene. 00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:22.800 I appreciate having you on here. 00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:24.880 And I will definitely have you on. 00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:34.880 Um, folks, I already know that I'm gonna invite Ben back to be a part of another episode that's specifically gonna be talking about his time in film school. 00:43:35.199 --> 00:43:46.159 Because a lot of people think that you absolutely absolutely need to do film school in order to make a film, but we're gonna go through both situations and what his experience was in film school, and so he's gonna be on that. 00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:48.880 So stay tuned and we'll talk more about that. 00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:50.480 Ben, thank you so much for being on here. 00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:51.119 Appreciate it, buddy. 00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:52.719 Man, it was so great to be here. 00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:53.360 All right. 00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:54.559 I'll catch you up next time, right? 00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:55.440 All right, sounds good. 00:43:55.599 --> 00:43:56.480 All right thanks, buddy. 00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:12.480 Directing is one of the most challenging jobs in filmmaking because directors aren't just creating shots, they're creating emotion, trust, atmosphere, meaning. 00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:18.719 They take invisible ideas and turn them into experiences audiences carry forever. 00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:21.840 Plus, directors often wear many hats. 00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:33.840 Today's episode reminded us that filmmaking is collaboration, persistence, imagination, and well, leadership, and sometimes pure chaos. 00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:40.800 If you enjoyed today's episode of Inside the Scene, the filmmaking podcast, like and follow the show. 00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:48.480 Subscribe, download, and share it with fellow filmmakers, and continue exploring the stories behind the stories. 00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:54.159 Keep creating, keep imagining, and keep looking inside the scene. 00:44:54.480 --> 00:45:00.320 Because every unforgettable film begins with someone daring to imagine it first. 00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:02.639 I'm your host, Brad Hodick. 00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:05.840 Until next time, keep watching closely.