Full Transcript for Midnight Train From Georgia with Dr Dhyanna Ziegler

signal Comedge, She's a multi hyphence 36 00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:11.080 much like I am. We do more than one thing. 37 00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:14.800 And and I just you know, she has many titles. 38 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:16.280 We were laughingbout that and we came out of here. 39 00:02:16.840 --> 00:02:18.639 But I would say her, Fo'm gonna say the full tire. 40 00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:24.080 I would say doctor Lady Dianna Ziggler what we would 41 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:25.680 call her Dianna? How are you. 42 00:02:26.680 --> 00:02:30.520 How are you? Thank you so much for that wonderful introduction. 43 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:34.840 You were ready for that, no, but yeah, no, And 44 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:37.800 congratulations on the book. You gave birth to a book. 45 00:02:38.599 --> 00:02:39.919 So how you feeling about it? 46 00:02:40.919 --> 00:02:44.479 Well, I'm feeling great about it. I really wanted to 47 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:48.000 write the story because not only is it a good story, 48 00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:52.080 but I also live the story since William Guest is 49 00:02:52.120 --> 00:02:55.319 my brother in law and more my brother. 50 00:02:55.719 --> 00:02:58.000 And that was a big I was like, oh, I 51 00:02:58.000 --> 00:02:59.759 can let the real race. I'm like okay. And I 52 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:02.319 was like that's okay. That's why she had access in 53 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:05.479 there that was like more that was very friendly, was 54 00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:07.199 very friendly access. 55 00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:10.199 It felt like yeah, since I was since I was 56 00:03:10.199 --> 00:03:14.639 eleven years old, so I really grew up with the 57 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:18.759 story and to be a part of their lives, you know, 58 00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:22.759 and see them evolve from the beginning because we came 59 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:28.240 into their lives early on in their career and it 60 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:29.400 has just been a. 61 00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:33.800 Wonderful, wonderful ride. I mean, he had so much charisma. 62 00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:34.759 I mean the whole group. 63 00:03:34.840 --> 00:03:38.680 I love them all, their family, We all became one 64 00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:41.520 big family, the zigglers, the guests in the night. 65 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:45.360 Yes, well, you know it's fine for me. I almost forgot. 66 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:48.439 Why was the beginning with how young LADYE was when 67 00:03:48.479 --> 00:03:52.280 she started. Yeah, she was basically a kid. I mean 68 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:54.639 we know about that. We know about the young. When 69 00:03:54.639 --> 00:03:57.639 I say young years, I remember the sixties all that stuff. 70 00:03:57.840 --> 00:03:59.479 I was like, oh wait, Wen, she started in the fifties. 71 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:01.000 That's right, she was young. 72 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:07.199 Yeah, in the fifties. They started very very young. I 73 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:11.560 always and people probably don't remember crinoline slips they used 74 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:15.400 to wear under your gowns to make the dresses big. Well, 75 00:04:15.479 --> 00:04:18.399 she was in crinoline slips and ballerina shoes. 76 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:20.800 I mean, very very young. 77 00:04:21.399 --> 00:04:24.600 And the guys were, you know, young too, I mean 78 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:29.040 they started. I mean Bubba was ten when the group 79 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:33.639 got started as a result of, you know, his tenth 80 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:38.279 birthday party. And that's just a story in itself. Yeah, 81 00:04:39.399 --> 00:04:43.279 you know that they had he had a ten year 82 00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:44.240 birthday party. 83 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:47.680 And you also have to remember that they were related. 84 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:53.920 So the Knights and the gas they were cousins, and 85 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:57.199 they were all in the same church. The parents were 86 00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:01.160 in the adult choir, the children we're sort of singing 87 00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:05.560 in the children's choir. But at this birthday party, you know, 88 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:08.319 they were doing like some R and B. They had 89 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:11.759 an actually record player. I mean, people probably. 90 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:14.279 Don't remember when the kids used to have these little records. 91 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:17.319 Oh yeah, idees and hip. 92 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:21.439 Well, little Garfield had a record player. They didn't, so 93 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:25.519 they invited Garfield, and I guess they were jamming through 94 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:28.040 the evening and having a great time at the party 95 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:31.720 until Garfield had to go home and take his record player. 96 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:35.319 So they decided to just start singing some of those 97 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:41.639 popular songs together and harmonizing. And thus that's how you know, 98 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:45.399 the parents start listening to them. And it's important also 99 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:50.279 for the audience to know that the group started with 100 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:55.360 Gladys Knight, her brother Mary O Bubba Knight, her sister 101 00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:59.600 Brenda Knight, my brother in law, William Guest, and his 102 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:04.519 sister Ellen I Guests. That was the Pips, and until 103 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:08.120 his deathbed he always thought that that was the better 104 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:12.839 group as far as the sound. But that was the 105 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:16.680 original Pips, and that's how they've got to started. 106 00:06:17.639 --> 00:06:20.240 And one of the things I think is so ironic 107 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:24.439 is that in the business or not business, in popular culture, 108 00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:28.199 they're not thrown in

the same way as other family groups. 109 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:31.160 I mean, we all kind of knew that to relate 110 00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:33.399 on some level, but like no one really talks about them, 111 00:06:33.639 --> 00:06:37.040 like in the facily those Saint the Barge or Silvers 112 00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:39.560 or this, like they don't really say much like because 113 00:06:39.800 --> 00:06:41.519 me because their last names are different. I don't know 114 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:44.040 what it is. But you'll see enough of you don't 115 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:48.279 hear enough of that. They are also also a family group, right. 116 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:50.360 I mean glad Us on the stage, she used to 117 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:55.199 introduce him as cousin Rick. But you know, just the 118 00:06:55.240 --> 00:06:58.759 whole and you read the book, so the whole evolution 119 00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:04.480 of them being a family, because they were performing all 120 00:07:04.519 --> 00:07:06.319 around Atlanta, they didn't. 121 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:10.360 Even have a name. They would just call the kids. 122 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:17.639 These various clubs and stuff around Georgia. And it was 123 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:22.199 because they were family that they had that not only 124 00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:27.279 that spiritual connection, but they had that family connection. I 125 00:07:27.319 --> 00:07:33.839 always tell people this book is about love, family, spirituality, 126 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:38.120 and harmony, and harmony more than the blending of voices, 127 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:42.839 but the harmony of spirit. That's what kept them together 128 00:07:43.079 --> 00:07:47.959 singing for almost four decades is because they were family, 129 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:53.319 you know, and they had that family foundation and that 130 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:57.920 spiritual foundation, so you know, they weren't going to go 131 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:02.759 too far, you know, the path, although they had challenges 132 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:06.600 just like any other group in the industry. But what 133 00:08:06.839 --> 00:08:12.040 kept them is that they prayed together. They made all 134 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:18.639 of their decisions together, and that's was the little pen 135 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:22.199 that kept them glued together for so long. 136 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:29.879 One thing over here, you'll read this book. Their pathway 137 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:36.039 through success is varied. And because we get to when 138 00:08:36.039 --> 00:08:38.279 you get to the chapter with love Overboard, I was like, oh, 139 00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:40.240 that's right. That was later I love I love that 140 00:08:40.279 --> 00:08:41.799 song for the new story by the way, but that 141 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:43.919 was like, yeah, that one. They came back in the 142 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:46.240 eighties from minute too, that's right. That what and they 143 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:48.080 have broken up and back then they say they came 144 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:50.120 back together for a couple of years later they had 145 00:08:50.120 --> 00:08:52.480 success from the pop charts from it, like it was like, really, 146 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:54.919 it's a very thing, but I want to read this 147 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:57.159 one point. Please a view if I may. It's an 148 00:08:57.200 --> 00:09:00.000 author's notes, like it's just very important people to unders 149 00:09:00.279 --> 00:09:02.440 I like you put this in the book. I'm gonna 150 00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:03.879 read the whole thing. That's gonna be part of it. 151 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:08.000 While Gladys Knight continues to be a household name of 152 00:09:08.039 --> 00:09:11.240 the industry, some of the younger generation may not know 153 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:15.159 the Pips. The following description is just a glimpse of 154 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:17.559 the greatness of the Pips sound during that era of 155 00:09:17.639 --> 00:09:20.320 music and the contributions they made through the group success 156 00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:25.600 as a whole. The Pips were sophisticated, stylish and soulful, 157 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:29.480 as well as providing energetic dance moves on the state. 158 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:33.559 The Pips were integral to the sound of Gladys Knight. 159 00:09:34.559 --> 00:09:37.279 Take their signature classic The Point at Midnight Train to Georgia. 160 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:41.759 That song is like the mom The backing vocals provided 161 00:09:41.799 --> 00:09:45.120 by the Pips are perhaps the best backing vocal ever recorded. 162 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:50.320 They switched effortlessly between providing straight backing we call the 163 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:53.279 oohs and ohs, to providing a calm response and they 164 00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:55.360 you said, I was like they do, tell they do 165 00:09:55.399 --> 00:09:59.720 what that song, as well as offering their own interjection 166 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:04.039 replies as night Fields to the song's climax. It's a 167 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:09.240 stunning example of how important backing vocalists can be to 168 00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:13.600 a song provided they're used right. The Pips truly were 169 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:16.399 the finest, and that when you when you said I'm 170 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:18.440 glad you said, that's that's. If you don't think anything 171 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:21.320 of this interview, go get the books. You can hear 172 00:10:21.320 --> 00:10:25.720 more about them as part of this this group because 173 00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:27.360 you're right with that song alone, which is one of 174 00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:29.840 the most popular songs they had out, even though one 175 00:10:29.879 --> 00:10:32.399 of my favorite songs is neither Ones. Neither one of 176 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:35.279 us did for

saying Goodbye, it's my favorite song. And 177 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:37.960 again the backing vocals. When I was saying the win 178 00:10:38.120 --> 00:10:40.440 you said that was written, I read that. I go. 179 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:44.679 I started hearing the song like it is. It totally 180 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:47.080 is a call and response to certain parts, and the 181 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:49.480 back of vocals do lift. 182 00:10:49.279 --> 00:10:55.080 Her up right, right, right exactly. I mean, they were 183 00:10:55.720 --> 00:11:00.519 more than background singers. First of all, I think it's 184 00:11:00.559 --> 00:11:05.039 important for the audience to know that they were all 185 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:11.480 lead singers themselves. Okay, first of all, Gladys was put 186 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:15.320 out there as Gladys Knight and the Pips to separate 187 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:20.320 two songs, Every Beat of my Heart the first one 188 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:26.200 that was put out illegally, Yes, but you know there 189 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:29.279 was a lot of ripping off in those Yeah, that 190 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:33.360 song was put out and sold. I mean it's ironic, 191 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:36.279 you know where he tells the story that you know 192 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:41.519 they would just invited over to use some recording equipment, so. 193 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:42.840 They're over there, you know. 194 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:46.279 And I grew up sort of an industry, so I 195 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:49.440 know how important and how that could happen. So they 196 00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:52.519 go over to record. The next thing, they know this 197 00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:56.000 person has not only recorded this song, put it out, 198 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.919 sold it to a record company, and all of a sudden, 199 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:02.600 my brother in laws walking down the street passing a 200 00:12:02.679 --> 00:12:06.000 record shop, the old record shop with the music used 201 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:09.600 to be playing on the street and heard the song 202 00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:12.960 and called Bob and said, our song is out and 203 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:14.039 he says, no, I just. 204 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:15.519 Heard it on the radio. 205 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:20.159 So by the time they went through that and Bobby 206 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:24.759 Robinson in New York because the song started spiraling up, 207 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:27.320 it started becoming a hit, and got in touch with 208 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:31.519 Ali Patton, who was a DJ in Georgia, very very popular, 209 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:35.320 saying how can I get a hold of these young people, 210 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:39.320 the young artists, And Bobby Robinson flew them up to 211 00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:42.480 New York with the parents and said I want to 212 00:12:42.600 --> 00:12:46.840 sign them. And then he wanted to record that song 213 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:49.720 over again because he knows they did not give any permission. 214 00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:53.200 So during those days, I would say, the dirty days 215 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:59.440 of the industry, they were able to re record the 216 00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:04.759 second the version of it, and to separate the two, 217 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:10.360 they decided to call that one Gladys Night in the 218 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:14.320 Pips to separate it from the Pips. Now, ironically, about 219 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:18.559 three weeks ago I heard the version on the radio 220 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:23.240 where they just said the Pips and these two recordings 221 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:27.559 are still out like that, and that was like, you know, 222 00:13:27.639 --> 00:13:30.440 that just sort of flipped me around. But you know, 223 00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:34.080 to to get back also to that call and response, 224 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:39.519 what if people remember their songs and sing it was 225 00:13:39.559 --> 00:13:44.440 a call and response. The round was as important as 226 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:50.039 the lead vocal many of those songs. Yes at harmony, 227 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:53.639 I mean, and that's what they're they're they're known for. 228 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:57.960 So even though they push Gladys out there, and you 229 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:01.480 mentioned the two albums that you found where you. 230 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:03.480 Saw the guys different guys. 231 00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:09.799 Primarily William and Bubba, you know, doing the lead voices. 232 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:15.200 So that was an important time of how that group 233 00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:19.960 became Gladys Knight and the Pips. And it's important that 234 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:23.120 they didn't have a name when they started as kids, 235 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:26.320 as we were talking earlier, but they were being carried 236 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:30.720 around by their parents and their cousin Pip, and because 237 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:33.799 they didn't have a name and they were getting so popular, 238 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:37.360 they decided that they would name themselves the Pips, after 239 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:41.200 their cousins. Since he was their road manager the road dog, 240 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:44.840 so to speak. And that's how that came about. 241 00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:47.200 The thing is people are going to stand to you 242 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:52.080 or those who don't remember or remember back then, studios 243 00:14:52.159 --> 00:14:55.120 ran everything most of the time. It was very it 244 00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:58.679 was a little shade going on back then. Names of 245 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:02.000 groups for a reason, Dina Ross Supremes. Later things like 246 00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:05.320 things were things were named for a reason. And I'll 247 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:09.360 tell you

it's funny you say about the songs getting 248 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:14.240 released people ship or being redone by somebody else, because 249 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:17.720 the last the Pips had no situation. Later I heard 250 00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:25.120 through the right. Now, I'm sorry, it's funny. Now both 251 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:28.559 versions are very popular. They're very different versions. But back 252 00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:31.840 so you can take a strictly went through that too 253 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:32.960 at Motown. 254 00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:37.480 Yeah, but even before and I'll get to Motown because 255 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:44.480 Bobby Robinson is real important talking about shape, you know. 256 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:46.559 Because that shape got very dark. 257 00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:52.279 He brought them up, you know, to New York and 258 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:56.759 you know, started putting out these records and stuff, and 259 00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:00.000 they and and and and you read about the whole 260 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:04.879 hotels Teresa in the Apollo Theater. So that was the scene. 261 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:06.919 I mean to grow up in New York. I was 262 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:12.600 born one block from the Apollo. Oh okay, yes, my 263 00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:16.360 mother my father was the lead singer of the Morning 264 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:22.240 Dove's Gospel Quartet. Okay, my mother and father, especially my 265 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:27.559 mother were very Apollo goers. So my mother would take 266 00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:31.480 us to the Apollo on Wednesday night amateur. 267 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:32.720 Hour, yesh. 268 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:36.440 And we always were in the right box seat, well 269 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:38.559 from the stage would be the left, but the right 270 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:40.960 box seat close to the stage because that's when the 271 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:43.639 kids used to jump and go on stage and all 272 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:48.840 of that stuff. So we grew up in the Apollo. 273 00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:54.720 So and she knew Bobby Robinson. That's yeah, that's how 274 00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:57.320 my sister met William. 275 00:16:57.440 --> 00:16:58.080 She took. 276 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:06.319 My sister was only about fourteen fifteen then and they 277 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:07.039 were recording. 278 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:07.839 I was too young. 279 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:11.079 They left me home. You know, I missed out on 280 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:15.160 some of the early stuff. But she knew Bobby and 281 00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:19.480 went over to recording session. That's how they met, and 282 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:21.319 you know, exchanged little numbers. 283 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:23.599 That's when you had the little ballop phones that the 284 00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:24.359 parents used. 285 00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:29.960 To put the locks on. So you know, that's how 286 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:34.200 it came about. So when they came back, because it's 287 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:40.519 important before Motown to get to how they left Bobby Robinson, 288 00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:44.000 because Bobby Robinson they didn't make any money. They had 289 00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:47.559 hit records all over the place. But Bobby used to say, well, 290 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:51.000 remember those clothes and those nice suits and stuff. I 291 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:54.079 me mean something had to pay for that. So they 292 00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:57.240 were going around staying in the hotels and stuff, but 293 00:17:57.279 --> 00:18:03.119 they weren't making any money. Decided that because Jimmy Newman, 294 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:07.480 the saxophone player, they got married and she got pregnant 295 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:09.799 a baby. She decided she wanted to go back home. 296 00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:14.119 So that's that wasn't Those albums that You've got were 297 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:18.559 not the first time the Pips recorded by They recorded 298 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:23.880 by themselves in the late fifties and early sixties before 299 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:26.039 getting to Motown. 300 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:28.720 But it was the brilliance. 301 00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:33.160 That polishing up you're at that second, that particular chapter. 302 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:40.680 Marguerite Mays was very important to their style and to 303 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:43.960 their dance steps. Marguerite Mays and a lot of people 304 00:18:43.960 --> 00:18:46.720 don't know about her, but she was first married to 305 00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:50.400 the leader of the Ink Spots, which was a group 306 00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:56.559 way back in the day. Then she married Willie Mays, 307 00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:00.559 the great baseball player. So she was the white of 308 00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:07.240 Willie Mays. Okay, when they came back, the guys decided 309 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:09.720 they wanted to come back to New York. Because they 310 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:14.279 went back home, Gladys date. The guys came back. My 311 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:19.880 brother in law met little Margherita who was her niece, okay, 312 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:24.799 and they were sort of dating a little bit. They introduced. 313 00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:29.480 She introduced them to Marguerite, who knew about the group, 314 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:35.039 and said, wow, you know you guys. She first moved 315 00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:39.519 them out. Well, she had them called Gladys, and she 316 00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:42.640 told them, you know, you're okay by yourselves, but you 317 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:44.559 all would be a much better group if. 318 00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:46.039 You got Gladys back. 319 00:19:46.599 --> 00:19:47.880 Yeah, so she. 320 00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:50.799 Called Gladys, taught Gladys back in the coming New

York. 321 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:55.680 She moved them out of Harlem over to the Island. 322 00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:02.559 And what was masterful in her thinking, because I always said, 323 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:05.440 she polished them up into a class act. She got 324 00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:11.599 them with Charlie Atkins cold Honey Cole. Honey Cold you 325 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:15.880 stone the Apollo, but Honey Cole and Charlie Atkins, they 326 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:20.599 were the great tap dancers back in the forties. She 327 00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:23.920 took them over to Charlie Atkins and said, I want 328 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:27.759 you to teach them how to dance. Charlie Atkins started. 329 00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:31.920 He just got a tin can and a stick and 330 00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:36.000 just started hitting this tin can and having them dance 331 00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:43.319 the Pips precisely on those beats. He taught them that 332 00:20:43.640 --> 00:20:46.559 precision of steps and beats. 333 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:47.319 And by the. 334 00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:53.359 Time they got tapped by Barry Gordy, Barry Gordy wanted 335 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:54.480 Charlie Atkins too. 336 00:20:54.839 --> 00:20:58.960 Why he had the tamps, he had the fourth top. 337 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:00.960 Yeah, yeah, other groups. 338 00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:04.279 But Charlie Atkins says, I will only come if I 339 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:08.240 continue to work with Gladys Knight and the Pips. So 340 00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:11.559 they got ripped off Bobby Robinson. 341 00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:15.000 Marguerite Mays. Really I give. 342 00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:18.319 Her credit for because again I lived the story for 343 00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:22.599 shaping them into that class act because they were they 344 00:21:22.599 --> 00:21:27.920 were sort of mimicking other group steps. But Charlie Atkins, 345 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:31.039 if you say, when their legs went up high and 346 00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:34.279 came back down, they were hitting those steps and that 347 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:37.440 was because of the genius of him. And yeah, when 348 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:41.119 they went to Motown, Gladys another thing, did not want 349 00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:45.119 to go to Motown. The guys wanted to go to Motown. 350 00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:48.000 She didn't because she thought she would get lost. Of 351 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:54.319 course hello, but she got out voted. Remember they prayed 352 00:21:54.359 --> 00:21:56.240 and they voted, so it was three to one. So 353 00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:01.279 they went to Motown. But Yeah, Barry Gore Gordie with 354 00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:05.200 all of his genius and everything he did was also 355 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:10.160 a rip off. A lot of people did not get 356 00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:13.079 those royalties and things. 357 00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:15.640 That they deserved. But they continued. 358 00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:18.559 GLADYSNEI the Pips continued to do their own thing on 359 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:23.279 the side, you know. And they by that time sim Seidenberg, 360 00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:28.400 who would also managed BB King, who was their accountant, 361 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:32.880 became their manager. So that helped them, you know, sort 362 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:40.279 of navigate their path. But Motown was also responsible again 363 00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:46.799 for creating that culture because I would give it to them. 364 00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:50.599 The women had to go to charm school. 365 00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:54.640 The guys that they're you know, they're dancing and stuff 366 00:22:54.720 --> 00:23:00.119 with the professionals. They also had cultural activities picnics. I 367 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:04.480 remember the picnics and they played baseball, football and all 368 00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:05.039 of that. 369 00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:08.759 Which she created a family that's close. They are still close. 370 00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:09.519 I was just. 371 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:14.160 In Detroit October. 372 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:18.039 I didn't go this Christmas. I stay with my mom, but. 373 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.960 My niece and nephew they still meet the Motown children. 374 00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:28.480 I went hanging out with them, you know. We went 375 00:23:28.519 --> 00:23:29.279 to a little. 376 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:30.759 Place where they did. 377 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:33.279 The house music and I was hanging out and they went, 378 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:35.759 oh this is so and so you know, one of 379 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:38.519 the four top son this so and so they still 380 00:23:38.599 --> 00:23:45.440 hang out together. Katherine Schriffer, who was part of the Marvelette, 381 00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:51.640 her daughter Keisha had is still doing the yearly gathering 382 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:54.599 that her mother did, So we went over there. So 383 00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:58.279 it's wonderful to still see the next generation of the 384 00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:03.640 generation after that Motown children still staying together. But yeah, 385 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:08.079 it was it was a rough, rough road, and you know, 386 00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:11.559 along with all of that greatness that said, there was 387 00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:14.359 some shady things going on. But I will not take 388 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:17.279 anything away from the brother because he was a genius 389 00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:22.480 and creating that culture and that gigantic history of music 390 00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:23.880 that we still hold onto. 391 00:24:24.519 --> 00:24:26.279 Well, I mean, you know, I agree with you. And 392 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:28.599 what I'll just say about that as you put it 393 00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:33.960 on that that section is that it's no one's one dimensional. 394 00:24:34.039 -->

00:24:36.519 Let's say it that way. And you know, let you 395 00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:38.640 know what I mean by that. So no one's one dimensional. 396 00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:43.359 And the family aspect in family, there are favorites in family, 397 00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:47.799 there are things, I mean, things happen in family. So 398 00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:49.480 so I looked, I looked, I look at it. It's funny 399 00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:53.240 because I've talked to like other people, other Motown stars, 400 00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:55.640 people are people who worked there and they say something 401 00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:57.319 like you, it's like, yeah, he did he did, he 402 00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:00.640 done did this, he done did that. But I wouldn't 403 00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:03.039 be and you and you really and it's one of 404 00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:05.119 those things I think as you get older too, we 405 00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:09.519 realize you can separate certain things. You go, okay for 406 00:25:09.799 --> 00:25:13.480 that stuff over here, there's some really good stuff over here. 407 00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:15.559 He did too, and he changed the face of music, 408 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:19.640 very Gordy changed. He just did, uh and like you said, 409 00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:23.279 and his style has been People have tried to duplicate 410 00:25:23.319 --> 00:25:26.759 that later, not to great success, but they were trying to. 411 00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:29.319 But he but he really did that. I mean I 412 00:25:29.319 --> 00:25:31.640 think later on you say, probably say the boy bands 413 00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:35.519 kind of are a similar situation, but like not the 414 00:25:35.559 --> 00:25:38.079 way I mean they he really did like clean up 415 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:39.519 might just say it that way. But he got kids 416 00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:42.680 who are on the streets and the projects and the 417 00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:45.400 stars made them pot and they had okay, folks, we're 418 00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:48.319 not gonna not gonna should cook this part. Because they 419 00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:52.480 were black, they had to be polished in terms of 420 00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:56.200 the audience because it could be just we couldn't be 421 00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:58.079 the hip hop and all that that we're doing now. 422 00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:00.000 Back then we. 423 00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:04.920 Had to be I mean if you saw I don't 424 00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:09.519 know if you've watched the At Sullivan documentary. 425 00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:12.480 Okay, Gladys Knight. 426 00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:16.440 And the Pips was one of the first groups on 427 00:26:16.599 --> 00:26:20.279 that show. Okay, it didn't have anything really to do 428 00:26:20.359 --> 00:26:24.759 with Motown because what what What was happening with Gladys 429 00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:28.319 Knight and the Pips is again because they kind of 430 00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:31.480 went They didn't do the Motown reviews. They went on 431 00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:37.160 their little side roads and they eventually started crossing. 432 00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:38.359 Over to pop. 433 00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:44.960 They did, their audience became gigantic, you know, so by 434 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:49.519 the time and and the reason why they left Motown. 435 00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:53.400 Remember Gladys didn't want to go there in the first place. Okay, 436 00:26:53.480 --> 00:26:58.759 so they by the time they met Cecil Hollingsworth, an 437 00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:00.160 art cast and all of them. 438 00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:01.519 From Boder Records. 439 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:07.359 Booter Records gave them the contract they wanted body, I mean, 440 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:10.720 Barry Gordy did not want to give. 441 00:27:10.599 --> 00:27:14.240 Them the money they wanted. And then but Buddha was smart. 442 00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:17.240 Buddha put them on a different kind of platform. 443 00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:21.880 They crossed over the Pop Midnight train from to Georgia, 444 00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:26.799 came under Booder Records. That's when they started winning the 445 00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:28.440 American Music Awards. 446 00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:32.599 The Grammy Awards. I mean they were, you know. 447 00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:36.240 Inducted into the Hall of Fame early again and then 448 00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:40.799 that was again that that period became like the third separation. 449 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.799 But those Buddha days is what really put them into 450 00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:51.319 global superstars. They were on private planes, performing at the 451 00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:52.839 White House, et cetera. 452 00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:55.400 So I want to mention that, you bo, this is 453 00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:59.799 a good segue right into this. So the honesty is 454 00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:02.400 not lying to you because I remembering this somewhere else 455 00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:07.640 last night of Pips for the first black group at 456 00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:12.920 the Grammys to win in one year the same ceremony 457 00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:17.119 and seventy three Best Pop Vocal by a duo group 458 00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:19.640 of chorus from my song neither One of Us, What's 459 00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:24.240 Your First? Say by? And Best r and Bing Vocal 460 00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:27.319 Performance by a dual or group or chorus. May I 461 00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:30.839 Trained to Georgia. They were the first. They won, and 462 00:28:31.079 --> 00:28:33.359 so basically what we're saying is they won the White 463 00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:42.319 Award and the Black Award. Say I would say, I 464 00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:44.960 just feel like, why aren't we talking about that? They 465 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:48.640 they crossed the f over and that's when cross cross 466 00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:53.680 big

not yet, not yet, it was not and it 467 00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:56.400 become like that they wanted two categories. I mean the 468 00:28:56.480 --> 00:29:01.440 voters voted for them. I'm times the way it is 469 00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:05.839 the white category and the black one and two different 470 00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:07.559 songs that is one song. 471 00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:13.559 Two songs, you know, and and again crossing over that 472 00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:19.519 that was a magnificent achievement that the other group's motown wasn't. 473 00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:23.599 Doing that they do it the first Yeah. Yeah, so 474 00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:25.920 you know again. 475 00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:32.200 That little those steps that they made through all of 476 00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:35.440 the people that helped them, the Marguerite Mays, the Charlie 477 00:29:35.480 --> 00:29:41.400 Atkins and themselves. But because they were always called them 478 00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:45.680 sort of like the bubble gum pop group, you know, 479 00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:51.759 because they were young enough, they were appealing enough, they 480 00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:55.480 crossed all of these different audiences. You know, they were 481 00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:58.559 doing Dick Clark, they were doing Soul Trained, but they 482 00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:04.839 were out there appeal to masses of people global and 483 00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:09.720 then you know, moving into the movie song tracks Claudine 484 00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:15.319 et cetera, et cetera. So their contribution I think that 485 00:30:16.599 --> 00:30:19.440 a lot of people they think about that midnight train 486 00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:23.559 to Georgia, but they don't think about the historic aspect 487 00:30:24.279 --> 00:30:27.799 of what they achieved in their career. 488 00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:28.640 You know. 489 00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:33.599 That's why it was important, but not only important from 490 00:30:34.519 --> 00:30:35.720 Gladys standpoint. 491 00:30:35.799 --> 00:30:37.480 But the importance of. 492 00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:43.240 The pips because you go back to again that era 493 00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:46.319 at that time, and they, you know, they had that 494 00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:47.640 ten years of going. 495 00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:51.319 You know, things blew up crazy and they got. 496 00:30:51.079 --> 00:30:56.319 So big, and you know, then other things start coming 497 00:30:56.359 --> 00:30:59.440 in and people want to do things differently. Okay, well 498 00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:04.039 that that happens, all right. So you know, Gladys wanted 499 00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:08.200 to do her thing a little bit. The guys were 500 00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:11.119 doing their thing a little bit, you know, Patent and 501 00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:15.039 guests with Patten the other cousin and William Gast. They 502 00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:18.759 had their thing, including the disco bells that I created 503 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:21.559 and all of that stuff. I mean, and even for 504 00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:24.599 me as a young person in the twenties to do 505 00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:28.079 one hundred thousand dollars bank proposal, get fifty thousand, go 506 00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:30.119 all over the world, do these disco bells. 507 00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:31.839 And I just ran into. 508 00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:36.160 Going through some paperwork and I see an article where 509 00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:38.640 maybe William and ROBERTA. 510 00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:41.880 Flack is that the disco bells kick off. 511 00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:45.039 And they talk about how Nonah Hendrick and Sarah dash 512 00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:45.759 was president. 513 00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:48.960 I said, wow, all of this stuff was going on. 514 00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:51.079 I mean, and I'm in my twenties. 515 00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:54.079 I was executive vice president of the company, you know, 516 00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:56.519 running this stuff. But you know, I had my own 517 00:31:56.599 --> 00:31:59.559 creative stuff going on because I was a songwriter, producer 518 00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:02.599 and had a number one song and seventy five time 519 00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:06.079 moves on by the group Struck, you know, disco song. 520 00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:09.519 So it's like, you know, we were just grooving. 521 00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:14.720 But it gets by all of these different enterprises, you know, 522 00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:20.759 got them sort of moving into different directions. So during 523 00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:23.680 that time in that era, that was this sort of 524 00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:28.440 the third separation. And people don't know that they were 525 00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:31.480 signed to Booda Records. It's Gladys Knight and the Pips. 526 00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:36.559 Gladys was signed by herself on Columbia. 527 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:38.400 Records, and the Pips. 528 00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:43.079 Were signed by themselves on Casa Blanca Records, which was 529 00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:45.200 Cecil Hollinsworth. 530 00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:47.839 Who was part of Border Records. So there was a 531 00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:48.759 lot going on. 532 00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:53.759 You know, how often did that happen in the industry? 533 00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:55.519 That was something. 534 00:32:55.599 --> 00:33:01.160 But they were so big and talented that the industry 535 00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:06.720 allowed that spread. They wanted they still wanted that music 536 00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:10.400 coming from. Okay, we want the Pips, we want Gladys, 537 00:33:10.519 --> 00:33:13.359 we want Gladys Night in the Pips, and you know, 538 00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:17.200 and and there they are, you know, and by nineteen 539 00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:20.680 ninety six, they're inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall 540 00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:24.400 of Fame, and

you know, you think about they came 541 00:33:24.519 --> 00:33:27.480 up with Dion and all of these people, Dion Ward 542 00:33:27.559 --> 00:33:30.559 Dion was just inducted two or three years ago. Not 543 00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:33.680 that it's fair, but a lot of these groups from 544 00:33:33.720 --> 00:33:38.240 back there, they're just being inducted, and they were inducted 545 00:33:38.359 --> 00:33:41.440 way back then in nineteen ninety six. 546 00:33:41.799 --> 00:33:42.039 You know. 547 00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:48.440 So I think that some of especially the young audience, 548 00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:52.200 you know, this book is to for them to understand 549 00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:56.240 the impact not only of the group, but even the 550 00:33:56.279 --> 00:33:59.880 impact of the man because Gladys Night and the Pips 551 00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:04.319 that got started without William Gast, you know, and all 552 00:34:04.359 --> 00:34:07.920 of that, and and the Journey, and you know, they 553 00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:12.119 were they were so close. I mean, I remember, you know, 554 00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:16.320 eleven twelve, you know, riding around in the limousines, mean 555 00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:19.400 in the backstage, mean at the wall doll You're talking 556 00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:24.440 about the funniest times and meeting all of those groups, 557 00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:27.239 coming to the Apollo and stuff. It was just a 558 00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:32.599 wonderful time for music, but also for love and laughter 559 00:34:33.559 --> 00:34:35.880 and that harmony that has said it's more than the 560 00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:39.639 blending of voices, that harmony and spirit was just big. 561 00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:43.480 Then you know, the sidewalks were dancing, you know, it 562 00:34:43.519 --> 00:34:45.360 was wonderful like that. 563 00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:48.920 And I have to our time is coming close. I 564 00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:50.960 just see this is amazing. I want to do something. 565 00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:53.639 I just want you some shout outs from the eighties, 566 00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:58.159 some of my favorites hits. And then I'm gonna ask 567 00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:02.159 you a big final question. I want to mention Boogie Bougie. 568 00:35:02.679 --> 00:35:04.400 I want to mention save the old time for me. 569 00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:08.199 I want to mention my time. I want to mention 570 00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:11.559 all our love and love overboard. Those are some of 571 00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:13.920 my favorite songs, are theirs in the eighties and I. 572 00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:16.079 Just a peaceful waters flow. 573 00:35:16.519 --> 00:35:18.280 Yes, I love it, I love it, I love it. 574 00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:22.320 I love it. So my final question to you, I 575 00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:23.960 mean it's been you have to come back on the show. 576 00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:28.239 This is great. Probably you probably know other stories and 577 00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:32.280 things too. We actually everyone here for him. Back to 578 00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:38.840 William Guest, what would you like people to possibly take 579 00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:44.199 away when reading this book about William Well. 580 00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:48.840 I can tell you what he has put in our lines. 581 00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:53.440 You know, from from a kid, I mean, he was 582 00:35:53.719 --> 00:35:59.639 very spiritual, He had a great love of family and 583 00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:06.039 this industry. He owned up to his mistakes, you know, 584 00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:10.559 and even with if you read the part with my sister, 585 00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:14.159 because he had all these outside children and stuff, but 586 00:36:14.760 --> 00:36:18.360 we were one family, and my sister was with him even 587 00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:21.719 though he was upstairs until the day he died. But 588 00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:25.599 she would say that he became more of a brother. 589 00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:30.000 But we were one family. We don't desert our family. 590 00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:33.679 We hold them up. And he wanted his life to 591 00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:37.039 have some meaning. He wanted young people to learn about 592 00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:42.760 this industry, to learn from his mistakes. Also, he had 593 00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:47.320 such a sense of humor and protection. If you read 594 00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:50.480 what Bubba said about him, that was like more of 595 00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:54.440 his big brother. He took care of people, He loved 596 00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:59.639 his family, He protected us. He was also so paranoid, 597 00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:03.800 you know about escalator. Be careful on the escalator, you know, 598 00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:06.760 do this, We don't want you to fall. But such 599 00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:11.519 a sense of humor, but wanting to know the world, 600 00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:18.360 to know that there is something more to music and 601 00:37:18.440 --> 00:37:23.239 how it evolves, and coming from spirit like the Lord. 602 00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:26.320 When he almost lost his life from the heart attack 603 00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:30.440 and he heard God speaking to him, he felt, at 604 00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:35.000 that point, I have to do something, you know, more 605 00:37:35.079 --> 00:37:38.119 in this industry. And you know, he started producing the 606 00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:41.840 Stub Girls who are the stub Girls. Levi Stubbs, nieces 607 00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:46.400 leader of the Four Tops. His daughter is still a 608 00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:49.679 good friend of ours. And you know he was just 609 00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:52.559 trying to just leave a little bit behind. Can I 610 00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:56.320 can I tell them more about this business. Don't make 611 00:37:56.360 --> 00:37:59.239 this mistake. Make sure you take care of your money. 612 00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:03.000 Don't let all of the glamour and the women or 613 00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:05.760 the men just get you on the wrong path. 614 00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:07.239 You know, those are. 615 00:38:07.159 --> 00:38:11.239 The things that he even though his his life was 616 00:38:11.320 --> 00:38:14.679 a roller coaster on things, it was still full of 617 00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:17.960 light and he wanted to leave that light behind. 618 00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:21.679 Babro did as you guys called him. He did, he 619 00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:24.880 left the I mean, I just what a body of 620 00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:28.880 work too. This book is the bomb diggity folks. Midnight 621 00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:34.440 train from Georgia left Georgia, left Georgia. Yeah. So I'm 622 00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:37.159 saying it's out everywhere. Go get it. You just go 623 00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:39.480 on your phone, tablet order it. Get it. And I 624 00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:41.920 always say it's the end of my shows some people, 625 00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:45.639 so my fans are into independent bookstores or mom and 626 00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:48.800 pop bookstores. I support that. To you. If they don't 627 00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:51.800 have the book, they can probably order it. I get 628 00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:53.280 it for you. If you want to still support a 629 00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:56.440 smart she still gets the sale. They get to sale 630 00:38:56.440 --> 00:38:58.079 to you. You know what I mean. I'd like something saying, 631 00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:00.000 so you want to go to the big box places 632 00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:02.360 is like you know, Barnes and Noble or Amazon. I 633 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:05.000 totally get it. But just talk to your local bookstore. 634 00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:07.000 Long don't they get the little ice ice be a 635 00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:09.599 number or whatever. They can order it for. You get 636 00:39:09.639 --> 00:39:11.440 it and you can bring me. You'll bring it more 637 00:39:11.480 --> 00:39:15.760 into your neighborhood also, So please don't let that stop 638 00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:17.559 you from getting this book. It's a great read. You 639 00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:20.760 will not be sorry. Thank you for your time, ma'am. 640 00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:24.360 You pleasures a pleasure. 641 00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:26.119 I love I love this. Say this is history, focus 642 00:39:26.159 --> 00:39:28.480 its history. I love it. It's out and you know 643 00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:33.119 what it is. It's American history, it's American music history. 644 00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:36.000 I will leave it an end like that, right. I'm 645 00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:38.320 James I Jenius IFFERTA page with James I Junior. Will 646 00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:38.960 see you next time.