Full Transcript for S5 E30: The Culper Spy Ring

00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:53.600 This might be an exciting episode. 00:04:54.160 --> 00:05:03.680 So I am currently actively battling kidney stones, and I've got my little you hear that shaken. 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:08.959 I got my little pain meds here ready to go on a moment's notice. 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:19.439 But to show our dedication to our fans and our listeners and our desire for accuracy, I did not want to do the show medicated. 00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:20.160 Wow. 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:22.879 We Brian asked last night, should we cancel the show? 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:25.120 I think recording postponing the recording. 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:26.480 I said, no, I can make it go. 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:27.519 And Brian made the comment. 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:33.439 He said, Well, I don't want you getting delusional or something on your medicine, because when I'm on painkillers, it can do that. 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:37.439 You get a little hallucinating, you get a little goofy and all that. 00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:39.040 So I said, you know what? 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:40.560 We're going hardcore. 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:48.560 So now, also, not only am I medicine free, um, the stone's on the move. 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:51.199 We we had some movement the other night. 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:53.439 This has been going on for a little over a week. 00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:55.279 We need like a stone tracker. 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:57.120 We should do a stone tracker. 00:05:57.360 --> 00:06:03.600 The problem is we do one episode every week, and yeah, but uh hopefully that would be taken care of. 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:06.079 But listen, I had never had a kidney stone. 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:08.000 You've never had a kidney stone, have you? 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:10.720 I've seen people have kidney stones, and you have to kill the kids. 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:17.360 I've taken pictures of people writhing on the ground while they were dealing with a kidney stone. 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:23.759 Let me tell you, a little bit different, little bit different perspective, haven't it hit? 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:26.560 And um, I gotta tell this story, it's kind of funny. 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:32.000 I mean, God has a sense of humor because you have definitely not shown a lot of compassion. 00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:32.879 I haven't shown a lot of compassion. 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:34.319 Other people have had kidney stones. 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:37.439 And listen, going forward, I'm still not gonna show compassion. 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:39.759 All right, look, it's tough. 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:41.439 I will say this. 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:47.600 When I went to the hospital last Tuesday night, Wednesday morning, I walked to my car. 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:48.399 I get in the car. 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:50.079 Lori did drive. 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:55.360 I walked into the hospital, and then when I was checking in, they said, Do you want a wheelchair to take you back? 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:57.120 I said, I do not need a wheelchair. 00:06:57.279 --> 00:06:58.160 I walked back. 00:06:58.720 --> 00:06:59.120 All right. 00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:00.639 I did show off. 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:04.800 And I I probably fought the pain for a couple hours. 00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:09.600 I think it was two hours before I woke Lori up and told her, Hey, probably need to do something. 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:10.480 But a funny story. 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:14.879 So the question is, at the time you felt the pain, did you think it was a kidney stone? 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.680 So I mean, it hit like this. 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:20.720 I I I got I got up. 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:25.279 Not I don't want to get too much detail, but I got up to go to the bathroom. 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:27.920 And I feel great. 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:33.360 And I noticed I had a little tickle in my throat, and I'm thinking, I might be getting cold because Lori had been battling a cold. 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:35.040 So I walked over, got a zycam. 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:38.319 It's 12 50 uh p.m. 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:39.279 a.m. 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:44.079 I get a zycam, I make up a vitamin C emergency drink. 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:49.279 Um, I take that, I walk back into my bed and I lay down. 00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:54.639 And I kid you not, as I laid down, I just I felt pain. 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:57.279 And I thought I tweaked my back. 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:00.240 And I'm like, what in the world? 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:09.519 So I like shifted my legs and I tried rolling a quarter turn from my side to flat on my back, and I just felt this radiating numb pain. 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:13.600 And then I rolled to my right and it was still there, and I'm like, what in the world is happening? 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:15.680 So I sat, I mean it was that instant. 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:22.800 I sat up, got up, and then I I pretty much knew, yeah, I I bet this is kidney stones. 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:24.399 Then you didn't think so. 00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:41.120 Half an hour later, yeah, you were half an hour later, half an hour later, the the thought starts hitting your mind, like, yeah, it's probably kidney stones, but like this is probably kidney stones and more, because something is terribly wrong. 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:45.519 Like, this isn't just pain, this is like extreme pain. 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:54.559 And so I laid on the couch for uh I don't know, an hour, hour and a half, just tossing, moving around, trying to get comfortable before I woke Lori up. 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:58.080 So did the hospital but you can't feel it while it's still in the kidney? 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:01.200 Because like your heart doesn't have pain sensors, right? 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:03.600 I mean they do work on your heart, you don't feel pain. 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:06.240 Well, I was unconscious when they did work on my heart. 00:09:06.480 -->

00:09:14.240 I don't know if they feel either but like the kidney, I feel it while you're gonna be able to do the kidney must be really wimpy. 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:14.799 Yeah. 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:16.240 So it's got pain sensors. 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:17.919 What if my God put those there? 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:24.159 So and we had we had a little bit of a I don't know if I misunderstood the doctor or Lori did. 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:25.519 I'm gonna guess it was Lori. 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:33.519 But I understood my stone to be at the bottom of the kidney, right where it dumps into the ureter. 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:38.639 I think it's a ureter, but whatever goes down to the bladder, and they said the kidney was right there. 00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:47.840 Lori thought it was in the ureter right below where the kidney dumps into the ureter, but I think it was in the kidney, but there's a lot of pain sensors somewhere. 00:09:47.919 --> 00:09:48.159 All right. 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:48.879 I'll tell you that. 00:09:49.039 --> 00:09:51.919 So the funny thing is, you you alluded to this, Tom. 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:56.159 Uh, when I can talk about I won't even use the last name. 00:09:56.399 --> 00:09:57.919 No, we're not gonna use names here. 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:02.480 But Tom was telling me a story about coming back from Dalton, Georgia. 00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:05.279 Uh I think you just spilled some beans there. 00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:10.320 And he got hit with uh kidney stone. 00:10:10.399 --> 00:10:11.200 He didn't know what it was. 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:12.240 He was writhing in pain. 00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:17.840 They took him to the hospital, and and he's talking to the lady, and and she kind of chuckled. 00:10:17.919 --> 00:10:21.679 She said, Honey, you get because he was in, I don't know, Chattanooga or Knoxville. 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:24.240 And she said, Honey, you get a kidney stone. 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:27.919 He's his response was, I don't think you're listening to me. 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:33.600 He said, Something inside of me has erupted and I'm hours away from death. 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:36.720 I need checked out right now. 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:40.000 And they took him in and scanned him, and yeah, but he had a kidney stone. 00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:41.440 That's the thought you get. 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:44.159 So anyway, so we're live, it's moving. 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:46.799 Hey, maybe I'll pass it on the podcast. 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:47.759 I hope we don't have to be able to do that. 00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:49.200 That would be incredible TV. 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:53.200 It would, and I don't think we're gonna shut the cameras off if that happens. 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:56.960 And just but if we hear you scream and go running out of the room, we'll know why. 00:10:57.279 --> 00:10:59.279 I wear stretchy pants here. 00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:08.399 Um I don't I don't know exactly what that means, but I thought

it was probably if something was going on, it was probably better to have stretchy pants than than jeans. 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:10.480 I appreciate the dedication. 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:11.519 So but here we are. 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:19.840 I think one of your favorite topics, because you love the show turn. 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:22.320 Yeah, which is all about the culprit. 00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:24.639 I I love this. 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:30.399 And again, I mean goodness, if we don't say this every episode, we say it every other episode. 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:35.120 Not an expert on this, not an expert in any way, shape, or form. 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:38.639 But I've got to tell you, this is something I didn't know about. 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:41.120 I mean, growing up, did you know this? 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:42.720 No. 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:47.279 I mean, honestly, it's probably within the past year or two that I've learned culprit spiraling. 00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:51.600 I learned about it, was was turned the first time I learned. 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:56.720 I I think I heard about it as we were doing some things, but it you're I'm with you. 00:11:56.799 --> 00:11:58.799 It was just in the last year or two. 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:01.919 So let's set the stage. 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:12.080 We have um Washington is named over the uh Continental Army in July, June, July of 75. 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:16.879 We're up battling in it was 75, right? 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:17.360 76. 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:23.039 Yeah, yeah, because he got up there right as they announced the signing of the declaration. 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:26.480 Um see on the spot fact checking. 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:27.440 Now that's good. 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:32.879 So um, and and think about this. 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:36.960 America, these 13 colonies, America isn't really a thing. 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:54.960 It's these 13 independent colonies that are part of the British Empire, are somehow trying to form together to fight against the most powerful country, the most powerful military, the most powerful Navy force in all of the world. 00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:56.799 And how's it even possible? 00:12:56.879 --> 00:13:03.360 And and and you and just sheer numbers alone would make you think this isn't possible, let alone the advancement. 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:08.559 So it's David versus Goliath uh uh type scenario. 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:19.039 And Washington realizes this and he says, look, we're we're gonna we're gonna line up, we're gonna fight, we're gonna do everything we can do, but we need to do something different. 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:22.960 We need to be smarter, we need to be more tactical and figure things out. 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:27.200 So what he needed to know was what were the British plans? 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:28.240 What were they thinking? 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:29.519 Where were they moving troops? 00:13:29.679 --> 00:13:30.399 What

was happening? 00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:34.080 He felt blind to what was going on. 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:48.799 And and if you remember 76, um, the British got they lost Boston, they will go up, go into New York, they kick us out of New York, and they set up kind of central command in New York, and they hold that through the entire the entire war. 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:55.200 And Washington, uh, his answer was I need intelligence, I need eyes and sides. 00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:57.039 He comes up with the idea of spies. 00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:10.080 I mean, let's face it, the idea of if you are outmatched by your opponent, if you are clearly inferior in strength, if you know what they're going to do, you can still fight that. 00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:11.200 I mean, you've got a chance. 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:15.039 A great perfect example is that team up north that won a national championship. 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:16.000 You know what? 00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:18.960 That is a great example. 00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:25.919 They weren't as good, they didn't have as much talent, but they had spies, they didn't have as much skill, but they spied. 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:27.440 They spied their way to a computer. 00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:37.519 And when you know what the stronger opponent is going to do, especially if the stronger opponent doesn't know that you know what they're going to do, it's an unfair advantage. 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:43.840 Now, I'm not comparing Connor Stallions or Jim Harbaugh to George Washington. 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:46.320 George was doing it for a great and noble cause. 00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:50.080 Those were just greedy sons of guns. 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:52.000 Connor Stallions is a scum. 00:14:52.159 --> 00:14:52.799 I'm sorry. 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:54.000 I don't know him. 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:57.840 But just there's no place for that. 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:02.879 But the point is that was a game. 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:07.360 That's a collegiate level game, not right a battle for freedom and liberty. 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:08.159 Yeah. 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:10.480 Um that was just cheating. 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:14.159 But the example was really good and powerful. 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:28.480 So um Washington initially gets some spies, and I think he looks to the military and says, let's take some of our soldiers, let's find somebody that's willing to go undercover to try and become a spy. 00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:34.799 And one of the first spies, I know, first, second spy, whatever, is someone by the name of should we ask? 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:37.039 Well, it's a previous episode. 00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:39.279 So let's see if you're paying attention. 00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:45.279 Do you remember who one of the very first spies that Washington assigned? 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:49.120 And I would even more specific to go into New York City. 00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:49.440 Yeah. 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:55.200 As a hint,

there is a statue of him at Langley, the head of the CI, and a statue of him at Yale. 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:55.679 Yep. 00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:57.759 And he died at was it 21? 00:15:58.080 --> 00:15:58.879 21 years old. 00:15:59.120 --> 00:15:59.679 Crazy. 00:15:59.919 --> 00:16:01.679 So the answer is Nathan Hale. 00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:02.639 Nathan Hale. 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:04.799 So Nathan Hale was a soldier. 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:14.399 I think he uh started serving at the age of 19 or 20, and it was probably 75 if you start mapping this out. 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:16.799 Uh 74, 75. 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:25.440 Um, I guess from a war standpoint, he couldn't have started till 75 because that's when the the the war broke out. 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:34.399 But um he goes into New York City, disguised as a teacher, which he actually was a teacher. 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:34.879 Yeah. 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:37.519 So you think that would be an easy disguise. 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:41.360 Um he got found out in two days. 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:47.039 In two days, he got busted for being a spy, and and and he got hanged. 00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:51.919 At age 21, he was hanged, and he was famously quoted as saying, Do you remember? 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:55.919 If you have any regrets, I My only regret, I my right. 00:16:56.240 --> 00:17:01.039 Last words, my one regret, my regret is that I have but one life to live, to give. 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:01.919 Yep. 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:04.319 We really butchered that one. 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:11.920 I have I regret that I have but one life to give for my country. 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:14.480 So, two days, he's gone. 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:18.400 And I think there was one other, I don't know the name, but another um spy. 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:31.039 But what what they begin to figure out is military people do not make good spies because they are so disciplined, they are so on task, they're so well trained, they're easy to spot as military people. 00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:31.519 Yeah. 00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:42.079 And what you really needed was just common ordinary Joes, just dudes, just people that could go out there and and and do the spying. 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:49.599 So Washington actually uh goes out and hires, or yeah, I guess hires Yeah, this is the entrance of Nathaniel Sackett. 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:50.799 Nathaniel Sackett. 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:53.200 And that's in 1977. 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:59.039 So right, Nathan um Nathan Hale was 76. 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:01.759 Nathan Hale, he he died in 76. 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:02.319 76. 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:03.200 The fall of 76. 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:05.680 It was right after they got knocked out of New York. 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:08.640 Hill's into New York in September, right? 00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:10.960 They got chased out in August. 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:15.680 So then a month, Washington sends somebody into the city and they snapped him. 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:24.400 So in 77, Washington hires Nathaniel Sackett and asks him to develop a spy ring, right? 00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:24.880 Right. 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:27.920 And he starts developing code numbers. 00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:29.759 He's working on codes. 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:36.559 And the idea of invisible ink, which came from we we found James J. 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:37.599 I thought it was John Jay. 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:39.519 James J, brother of John Jay. 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:44.480 John Jay develops this invisible ink so they could pass messages undetected. 00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:46.240 And it's a pretty elaborate. 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:47.920 Yeah, they have a code system. 00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:50.240 They don't they don't want to use names. 00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:51.279 And it it develops. 00:18:51.359 --> 00:19:05.359 So the one of the one of the biggest things uh Nathaniel Sackett did in addition to like bringing on this spy technology that he did was he brought on Benjamin Talmage. 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:07.920 And Benjamin Talmage was a young man. 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:10.079 He graduated from Yale or Harvard, I believe. 00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:10.559 I don't know. 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:27.759 He graduated from Yale, and he was kind of training up under Nathaniel Sackett, learning what he was doing, and and the the what they figured out was the most important thing to aspiring was secrecy. 00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:29.599 Secrecy. 00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:34.559 So much so that if we flash forward, Washington didn't know who his spies were. 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:36.400 That's crazy to think about. 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:36.960 Yes. 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:48.640 They have there were layers of protection, and uh we'll get into all that, but so uh um Nathaniel Sackett only lasts like six months. 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:50.640 Yes, six or eight months in his role. 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:52.400 He's being paid in that's crazy. 00:19:52.480 --> 00:20:03.119 I think it was fifty dollars a week or something like that to to serve in the role as um the head of the spy ring, and Washington was frustrated with um his progress. 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:08.480 So he gets put out and they move Benjamin Talmadge in Talmadge in his role. 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:15.519 So the quick background on Talmadge was he graduated from he is from uh a little town called Satoket, Long Island. 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:31.039 He graduates from Yale in 73, joins the military in 76, advances to major by 77, and in 78 takes over for Sackett as head of the espionage for so I didn't even do the math here, but he's what late 20s maybe? 00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:33.680 Maybe that's crazy. 00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:48.160 Um so Benjamin Talmage now takes what he learned from Sackett, what was already put into place, and and the foundations were already set for this, what becomes the culprit spy ring. 00:20:48.720 --> 00:21:04.240 Uh what

is I think so cool about this three of the key figures here Benjamin Talmage, Caleb Brewster, and Abraham Woodhall were high school buddies. 00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:10.640 They went to high school, and you know, it's not high school like we think of, but they grew up in Satokin. 00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:12.559 You don't think they were sitting in Mr. 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:13.839 Santoni's study hall? 00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:17.519 Typing class, no burner. 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:21.920 Um and but they grew up in the same town, right? 00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:40.559 And that was key to this working because they knew each other, they grew up together, they trusted each other, they were like brothers, and I don't know that they were like as close as brothers, but they had that level of trust and commitment and faith in each other that they could do this. 00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:49.839 And Caleb Brewster um was certainly an ordinary guy, kind of ran a whale boat and things and was a crazy outdoorsman. 00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:53.440 And he kind uh like I think he became more military. 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:55.200 Abraham Wood Woodhall. 00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:58.160 He was a farmer, just a farmer, just a dude, right? 00:21:58.319 --> 00:21:59.759 Just a dude living in Satocket. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:00.720 Long Island. 00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:01.440 Yeah. 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:04.559 And that's what ultimately makes this work. 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:08.400 But when I think about this, this is really stupid. 00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:13.440 But so I I'm going to flash back to my high school. 00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:17.440 There were really three of us that hung out and did a lot together. 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:21.279 It was Ty, Alan, David Trotter, and me. 00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:27.519 And um, you know, we we used to just hang out and do stuff together. 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:30.960 And when we were in high school, movie Red Dawn came out. 00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:31.839 Do you remember that movie? 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:32.480 I do remember that. 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:33.440 Remember the original? 00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:34.880 The original and the remake. 00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:35.359 Yeah. 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:40.960 And so in Red Dawn, uh, the Russians do this surprise invasion. 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:44.720 They drop in, I think, up in Washington State or Oregon. 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:50.640 Uh, they they just parachute in and this war breaks out and they take they take over the western part of the U.S. 00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:56.720 And there's this line drawn that you know that that becomes controlled territory. 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:00.640 And the people that fight back against it are high school kids. 00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:03.359 High school kids that were trapped behind the lines. 00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:04.880 And we used to watch that. 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:07.680 And David and Ty, if you're out there, you know what I'm talking about. 00:23:07.759

--> 00:23:10.079 We used to think, oh my goodness, that would be so awesome. 00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:20.240 Not awesome to get taken over by the Russians, but to be the ones, to be out there in the wilderness fighting, defending your freedom, fighting for the honor, fighting for this country. 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:24.400 And we're like, how cool would that be if you know we could band together and do things like that? 00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:25.839 That's what these guys did. 00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:31.599 Yeah, they are fighting the most powerful force in the world. 00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:37.039 And now you got these high school buddies that are developing this spy ring to get all these secrets. 00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:37.920 So who are you? 00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:39.839 Benjamin Talmadge? 00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:40.960 Yeah. 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:42.559 And what we ties. 00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:44.240 Trotter's Woodhall. 00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:44.960 No, no. 00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:46.160 Trotter's Brewster. 00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:47.759 Trotter's Brewster. 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:48.640 He is definitely Brewer. 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:54.400 But I would trade. 00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:57.519 I wouldn't mind being Woodhall, just a little farmer bum. 00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:03.839 But yeah, so and right there, they're in Satocket, which they are making trips into New York. 00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:05.279 Satocket's on Long Island. 00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:06.720 That's not in New York City. 00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:14.000 So you've got to go like across the sound or across that body of water, whatever it is, to get to the land to get to New York City. 00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:18.960 And the British are like monitoring and blocking everything that goes in and out of the city. 00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:20.720 So they had to develop this whole system. 00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:21.440 Yep. 00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:28.640 Which entered the Robert Townsend, who was lived in New York City. 00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:32.640 And so Abraham Woodall becomes, I think I have this right, correct me if I say it wrong. 00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:35.920 Abraham Woodall becomes Samuel Culper Sr. 00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:39.920 And Townsend becomes Samuel Culper Jr. 00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:45.519 And they're communicating to get messages from the city to Satocket. 00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:48.880 And then it goes from Satocket to Brewster. 00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:52.319 Look, you're you're gonna you're gonna get hit with a couple spoilers here. 00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:53.599 I have not finished. 00:24:55.039 --> 00:25:00.240 I'm gonna try not to hit these spoilers, but uh there's parts of the story that need to be told. 00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:03.839 So the the spoiler thing we're talking about is um turn. 00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:05.599 Turn it's a mini-series. 00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:12.319 Uh I think it was History Channel originally, or I maybe that's where it lands now, but um, it was on Netflix. 00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:16.799 And now it's purchasable maybe on Prime or something. 00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:17.279 I don't know. 00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:19.519 Anywhere you buy streaming. 00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:27.119 But uh neat, really neat miniseries, uh, like like any, and I think we've talked about it before. 00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:37.359 You know, there they're they're they've got to weave their storytelling in and their little um just stuff that you gotta get past. 00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:44.559 But it is really good, and for the most part, for the major points, it is very accurate. 00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:49.519 There is storytelling mixed in, and so there's a lot of smaller details that aren't true. 00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:56.240 Like in in the the uh mini-series, Abraham Woodhull is married in real life. 00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:01.519 I was I was reading, he didn't he wasn't married, and he didn't get married until after the war. 00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:04.799 Which makes so that much better for me. 00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:07.599 But that's we'll leave that alone. 00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:23.200 So um he's traveling from Long Island to New York initially, getting information, getting what he can, bringing it back, and he actually took an pledged an oath of loyalty to the king. 00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:27.359 And it was right, it was fake. 00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:32.000 It was something he had to do to prove that he was loyal to the British. 00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:33.279 But he's a spy. 00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:37.440 Is it okay to take an oath falsely? 00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:41.519 Yes, like you have to just as long as your fingers are crossed behind your back, it's all right. 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:44.720 Like you pray about it before and say, God, this isn't real. 00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:47.440 So, first of all, I don't think I could be a spy. 00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:52.480 Because I usually think of spies is like a little bit weaselly, snivelly. 00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:54.400 Yeah, I'm lying. 00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:55.599 They're lying. 00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:56.000 Right. 00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:57.599 They're their life is lying. 00:26:57.759 --> 00:26:58.000 Yeah. 00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:00.000 Um, and I know they're necessary. 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:02.160 Yeah, I just don't know that I could be one. 00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:04.880 But if you are a spy, yeah, it's okay. 00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:05.839 It's okay. 00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:07.279 That's that's what you do. 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:14.000 So he he can't continue going back and forth from Long Island to New York to get this information. 00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:18.240 You know, he tries a couple different covers, it gets suspicious. 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:20.640 So he's got to find somebody in the city. 00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:24.319 And the person he finds is this Townsend, Robert Townsend, right? 00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:24.960 Yep. 00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:40.640 And Robert Townsend uh owned a shop,

I don't know if it was like a bar or a lodge or coffee or whatever, but there's this gathering place, and it seemed to be a place where a lot of the British would gather, a lot of the generals and military leaders would gather. 00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:47.680 Um he also worked with a printing press and worked on putting out a paper. 00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:58.000 Um, and they would use that paper to send out secret messages, um, you know, hidden in an article or an advertisement or something. 00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:13.920 Um, but Robert Townsend becomes a key figure in this gather collecting and gathering of information on the uh the movements of the uh British troops, the British armies, everything they're doing. 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:37.839 Um and the the show paints him as a as a reluctant um uh spy because he was a Quaker and he didn't didn't like war, didn't like this, that, but um you know he gets I think along the way coerced or just learns that yeah, I I need to do something. 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:42.079 I can't I can't play the neutral ground and he fills that role. 00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:45.359 Austin Rowe is another name. 00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:48.960 I don't know a lot about him, but he's part of the culprit spy ring. 00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:52.640 Another funny thing, it's called the the culper spy ring. 00:28:53.440 --> 00:29:03.119 This I didn't research, so I don't know, but in the show, they like wanted it to be like Washington wanted it to be the callpepper spy ring. 00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:06.319 Named after Dante Culpepper, the Viking Squadbex. 00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:07.839 Of course. 00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:11.200 I think of uh Brad Culpepper. 00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:12.079 That's Hawsen Pfeffer. 00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:15.440 I don't know who Brad Culpepper is. 00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:21.759 I was gonna say it was after that stew on the Bugs Bunny cartoon, but that was Hoff and Hausenpfeiffer, not Culpepper. 00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:22.880 Close. 00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:31.839 Um but so as Town Mage is recruiting Woodhall, and Woodhall was reluctant, he didn't want to do it at first. 00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:38.319 And you know, Woodhall's resisting, and finally they get him to agree to do it, and he says, All right, I'll do it. 00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:40.240 But I'm not gonna be callpepper. 00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:41.680 It's callper. 00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:45.359 If it's not culper, I'm not doing it. 00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:49.759 I don't know how accurate it is, but that's great. 00:29:50.079 --> 00:30:00.559 Uh yeah, just the and the way this information meant like again, these people didn't like all work together or talk together. 00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:03.839 They were passing messages through this chain, right? 00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:16.400 So you've got Townsend in New York City, and he would relay messages to Woodall and Satocket, and then Satocket would put these messages out for Kenla Brewster to come pick up. 00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:18.480 Anna Strong is another big name, right? 00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:19.359 We didn't know. 00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:22.880 Brew and Woodle weren't even like they weren't meeting in person very much. 00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:29.440 So uh Anna Strong uh had I don't know if it was a a home or whatever. 00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:33.839 I think she might have run a tavern there in Satocket. 00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:40.319 Um but she would um signal Brewster. 00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:51.839 So Brewster's this guy kind of door, running a wheelboat, wheeler, you know, trading and probably some sometimes illegally on the ocean, running goods to make money. 00:30:52.079 --> 00:31:00.799 Um, he would be the one that would come and pick up the information that you, as you said, Townsend gets, gets it to Woodhall. 00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:03.759 Woodhull um puts it at this location. 00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:07.359 Strong would would signal Brewster were to get it. 00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:14.000 Brewster would pick it up and take it to Talmage, who would then work with Washington, relay the information, do what they needed to do. 00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:16.400 So they had it was a black petticoat. 00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:23.200 If there was a black petticoat hung out on the line, it meant there was a message that needed to be picked up. 00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:37.279 And then she would use, I think it was flags or handkerchiefs, but she'd hang other things, depending on how many of those she hung out, would tell him which cove or which access area in the water the message was hidden in. 00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:44.960 I think they would hide them in trees, and Caleb would see the the flags show up, get the stuff carried on. 00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:47.200 It's just and there are multiple levels. 00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:52.960 I have we talked about the invisible ink, yeah, and then they used numbers, like they have this whole thing. 00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:54.480 Yeah, everything was a number. 00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:55.519 What was it? 00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:56.319 760. 00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:08.559 711 was yeah, 760-some total numbers, and every number represented a person or a place or a name or something like 711 was George Washington. 00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:10.079 That's crazy. 00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:19.359 Yeah, and there was a number for New York City, and there was a number for this, and and so they would code, you know, write all this in secret code. 00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:28.240 And we we weren't able to verify completely if this was true or not, but on the show, they'd even they used invisible ink, but they wrote on eggs. 00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:40.400 They got hard-boiled eggs, and they would write on the shell, and the uh ink or whatever would go through the shell and show up on the egg, but it wouldn't show up on the shell. 00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:44.000 I think I did that at Easter when you it was an accident. 00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:48.640 But so when you crack the

egg, there's a message encoded inside. 00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:50.640 How cool was that? 00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:57.519 I mean, the level of of uh intricacy in this spy ring is just amazing. 00:32:57.839 --> 00:33:03.200 And it ran from 1778 is when Talmage got put over this. 00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:05.440 It ran for five years through the end of the war. 00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:13.359 And they never once had anybody in that spy network captured or revealed as a spy. 00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:14.880 That is amazing, which is incredible. 00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:15.680 Amazing. 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:34.240 And two of the main um things that were attributed to them was one, the British were planning an attack on, I think it was these French and American armies that were landing and gathering in Rhode Island, uh, and the spy ring found this out and and let Washington know. 00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:47.920 And Washington changed his the he aligned his army as though they were preparing to attack, and it thwarted the British plans because the British were trying to surprise them when they saw this army aligned to attack. 00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:49.200 They canceled those plans. 00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:54.640 And the other big one was the discovery of Benedict Arnold and his plan to turn over West Point. 00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:55.920 Isn't that crazy? 00:33:56.079 --> 00:33:56.960 I mean, amazing. 00:33:57.279 --> 00:34:04.400 They captured Benedict Arnold and they took down John Andre, who was the head of the spy network of the Brits. 00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:06.400 And these guys took him down. 00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:25.760 Yeah, and you know, multiple things that I I read as we we looked at this, just the continuous, continuous flow of reliable information for Washington left him a step ahead, prepared for whatever the British were going to do, knowing what they were gonna do, so he could reorient and move his troops. 00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:31.519 I mean Yeah, we we very critical in turning the tide of this war. 00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:38.320 We talked about this on um one of our earlier episodes with Yorktown. 00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:40.480 Two things happened. 00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:45.280 One, the British were trying to get more troops down to Yorktown. 00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:52.239 Um I forget what the what general they had called from New York and wanted him to come down. 00:34:52.719 --> 00:35:00.880 And I don't know that this came from the the culprit spy ring, but the information was found out that they were making that move. 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:22.800 And so the Americans faked like something was going to happen up north and cause that that army, that brigade of the British military to stay north and not go down and reinforce Yorktown, which enabled uh our army to to take over, you know, wipe out Cornwallis and capture Yorktown, which effectively ended the war. 00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:25.920 Um, so it's it's just it's amazing. 00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:29.599 Uh, I'm telling you, the there is so much here. 00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:35.679 Uh it's neat, it's uh it's fun and exciting if you get into it. 00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:42.800 And I I've I've talked to some people, you know, as as we talk about our episodes, and I hear people say, Yeah, I'm not a history buff. 00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:44.639 I'm like, yeah, neither am I. 00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:47.360 There's nothing buff about me at all. 00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:55.119 Um, but this is just neat information, but it's important information. 00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:58.880 And if you're looking for a fun way to engage this, the turn series is good. 00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:08.320 Uh again, I'm only a uh one season in, and there are some uh off color things or you know, trysts or whatever. 00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:09.599 But trists. 00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:13.199 Um but overall the storyline is really good. 00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:19.440 It's an engaging story, a fun story, and you get uh for the most part accurate information. 00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:21.519 Again, it is a story. 00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:22.000 Yep. 00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:24.000 It's uh what what do they call that? 00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:48.239 Um there's some but it is largely, largely based on although it is, it's based on the culprit spy ring, but most all of the major themes of that are true, minor things are changed to fill in color and create Yeah. 00:36:48.320 --> 00:36:56.880 So the next time you're sitting there thinking about how much you appreciate America and your freedom, tip of the hat to the culprit spy ring. 00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:02.239 Benjamin Talmage, Abraham Woodhall, Caleb Brewster, Anna Strong. 00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:03.519 Anna Strong. 00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:05.199 And yeah, if you want to find it. 00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:10.480 He was only six months there, but he started it setting up the codes. 00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:11.679 So it's great. 00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:25.760 Fun story to to kind of just I mean, we had talked about Sons of Liberty before, the culprit spy ring, some of these groups that you just don't really know how much how integral they were to the founding of the country. 00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:31.679 So with that, we'll wrap up uh the session on the culper spy ring. 00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:38.960 Um yeah, if you if you haven't seen that before or heard that, go check out the series, go do a little research, read a book. 00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:41.920 You can, I mean, just you look online, you'll see all kinds of stuff. 00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:49.199 Something said the the first major novel hit in in the US was a book called Spy. 00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:53.840 I think it was released in 1821, and I think it was based on the Culper Spy Ring. 00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:55.599 Wow, that would be fun to read. 00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:57.599 Although it would probably be very difficult to read. 00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:00.320 It would be a lot of words. 00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:01.039 All right. 00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:04.320 Well, speaking of a lot of words, I think our time is up. 00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:05.519 See you next week. 00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:06.800 I'm still standing. 00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:09.199 No movement on the stone. 00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:12.639 Tune in next week to see if the stone's still there. 00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:14.000 Have a great week. 00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:15.119 God bless. 00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:30.000 This is the thread call me reminding you that faith looks up, hope looks ahead, and love looks all around to see whom it can help. 00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:31.599 Good day.