TRANSCRIPT 🔗
1
00:00:00,835 --> 00:00:02,810
Announcer: This is
a Getty podcast.
2
00:00:02,810 --> 00:00:05,715
[Theme music begins]
3
00:00:05,715 --> 00:00:09,321
Host: If at first you don’t
succeed, try, try again.
4
00:00:10,056 --> 00:00:12,662
But what if you
still don’t succeed?
5
00:00:13,062 --> 00:00:15,606
How long should you keep trying?
6
00:00:16,462 --> 00:00:21,178
Welcome to If Objects Could
Talk, the podcast where art
7
00:00:21,238 --> 00:00:25,543
and artifacts come alive to
share their side of the story.
8
00:00:26,282 --> 00:00:32,058
Today, we’re talking about a
monumental bronze vase covered
9
00:00:32,106 --> 00:00:36,361
in intricate designs and even
some creepy crawly critters.
10
00:00:36,361 --> 00:00:40,080
[bugs buzz] It was
made in the late 1800s.
11
00:00:40,522 --> 00:00:44,812
The artist, Jean-Désiré Ringel
d’Illzach, hoped his work would
12
00:00:44,813 --> 00:00:47,082
bring him fame and fortune.
13
00:00:47,591 --> 00:00:50,577
But sometimes things
don’t happen as fast as
14
00:00:50,579 --> 00:00:51,811
we might want them to.
15
00:00:52,269 --> 00:00:55,941
Here to fill us in on the
details of this story is a tiny
16
00:00:55,947 --> 00:00:58,969
critter that’s been sitting
at the bottom of the vase for
17
00:00:58,996 --> 00:01:04,611
over 100 years, and who knows a
thing or two about going slow.
18
00:01:05,110 --> 00:01:06,236
It’s a snail.
19
00:01:06,740 --> 00:01:08,667
Snail: [high, squeaky
voice yells] Hello?
20
00:01:08,667 --> 00:01:09,927
Hello!
21
00:01:10,745 --> 00:01:11,775
Down here.
22
00:01:12,291 --> 00:01:15,231
Well, could you, uh, bring
the mic a little closer?
23
00:01:16,773 --> 00:01:17,414
More.
24
00:01:17,958 --> 00:01:21,072
All the way to the
base of the vase.
25
00:01:21,661 --> 00:01:22,920
Oh wow.
26
00:01:24,095 --> 00:01:25,510
My own podcast.
27
00:01:25,556 --> 00:01:29,879
[gasps] Gee, where to begin?
28
00:01:30,495 --> 00:01:34,933
Well, I’m a snail and
I live at the bottom of
29
00:01:34,933 --> 00:01:37,906
the coolest vase ever.
30
00:01:38,318 --> 00:01:43,596
My vase has a wide rounded body,
narrow neck, and large opening
31
00:01:43,598 --> 00:01:46,172
at the top called a mouth.
32
00:01:46,676 --> 00:01:50,595
There are a pair of handles on
each side stretching up over
33
00:01:50,604 --> 00:01:52,723
the mouth in bronze curlicues.
34
00:01:53,979 --> 00:01:57,316
A lot of people focus
on the size of the vase.
35
00:01:57,445 --> 00:01:59,044
It’s big.
36
00:01:59,388 --> 00:02:02,280
Well, bigger than big, actually.
37
00:02:02,841 --> 00:02:07,288
No, like 10 feet tall big.
[voice amplifies]
38
00:02:07,288 --> 00:02:09,560
That’s as tall as a basketball
39
00:02:09,562 --> 00:02:11,869
hoop is from the ground.
[ball bounces]
40
00:02:11,869 --> 00:02:14,659
It weighs a ton, too.
41
00:02:15,222 --> 00:02:19,910
Oh, well, um, half a ton
at just over 1,000 pounds.
42
00:02:20,458 --> 00:02:26,396
Imagine lifting that weight.
[groan and cheers]
43
00:02:26,397 --> 00:02:26,397
44
00:02:26,397 --> 00:02:30,375
I mean, snails are pretty
strong for our size, but I think
45
00:02:30,376 --> 00:02:36,943
it would take, like, um, um,
7,250 snails just to lift it.
46
00:02:36,966 --> 00:02:37,530
[crowd says “wow!”]
47
00:02:37,985 --> 00:02:39,282
[Classical music begins]
48
00:02:39,282 --> 00:02:42,364
Once you get used to the
size of the vase, you should
49
00:02:42,364 --> 00:02:47,280
check out all the small
details covering it, like me!
50
00:02:47,731 --> 00:02:50,964
I’m one of eight snails
at the base of the vase.
51
00:02:51,353 --> 00:02:55,527
The body is divided up
into 12 long horizontal
52
00:02:55,530 --> 00:03:00,196
sections, and each section
has unique decorations.
53
00:03:00,812 --> 00:03:04,638
One has a pattern of dots,
another of stripes, and
54
00:03:04,653 --> 00:03:07,527
still others have imprints
of juniper branches or
55
00:03:07,539 --> 00:03:09,355
lace or peacock feathers.
56
00:03:09,952 --> 00:03:14,180
Oh, there’s even a sneaky
spider crawling up one crevice.
57
00:03:15,745 --> 00:03:16,442
[crowd gasps] No, no, no.
58
00:03:16,469 --> 00:03:17,189
It’s cool.
59
00:03:17,363 --> 00:03:18,557
She’s an old friend.
60
00:03:18,630 --> 00:03:19,135
[voice says “hello.”]
61
00:03:19,690 --> 00:03:25,219
My vase was made in 1889
by a Frenchman, Jean-Désiré
62
00:03:25,285 --> 00:03:26,771
Ringel d’Illzach.
63
00:03:27,364 --> 00:03:31,653
But we look like an artifact
that is a lot older than that.
64
00:03:31,917 --> 00:03:35,269
Well, you see, when he was
younger, d’Illzach visited
65
00:03:35,269 --> 00:03:39,761
an archeological museum in
Naples, Italy, and he got
66
00:03:39,762 --> 00:03:43,934
to see all this amazing
old stuff from Pompeii.
67
00:03:43,934 --> 00:03:44,443
[Percussion music plays]
68
00:03:44,694 --> 00:03:48,429
He was inspired by an
ancient Roman volute krater.
69
00:03:48,471 --> 00:03:51,873
[voice says “huh?”] Or,
hmm, mixing vessel, and
70
00:03:51,874 --> 00:03:56,481
based the shape of my vase
on an ancient Roman one.
71
00:03:56,841 --> 00:04:02,376
Kinda wild that we ended up in
a museum over 100 years after
72
00:04:02,376 --> 00:04:06,923
our maker was inspired by what
he saw in a different museum.
73
00:04:07,596 --> 00:04:12,004
How has seeing art
inspired your masterpieces?
74
00:04:12,332 --> 00:04:15,094
Oh, maybe you’ve used an old
painting as the basis for a
75
00:04:15,095 --> 00:04:18,629
new drawing [pencil scratches]
or written fan fiction.
76
00:04:18,629 --> 00:04:23,726
[sword fighting] Or
tried to make clothes
77
00:04:23,732 --> 00:04:25,929
you’ve seen in a museum.
[film reel starts]
78
00:04:25,929 --> 00:04:31,302
But that’s the cool
thing about creativity!
79
00:04:31,512 --> 00:04:33,885
You never know where
inspiration will come from.
80
00:04:33,952 --> 00:04:36,140
[voice says “aha!”] Or take you.
81
00:04:37,262 --> 00:04:37,639
[plane takes off]
82
00:04:38,252 --> 00:04:41,889
At the museum in Italy,
inspiration took
Load full transcript
hold of
83
00:04:41,921 --> 00:04:45,834
d’Illzach, but he couldn’t
make his vase all on his own.
84
00:04:46,455 --> 00:04:50,939
So he teamed up with a
bronze factory in Belgium
85
00:04:51,217 --> 00:04:52,561
and struck a deal.
86
00:04:52,605 --> 00:04:56,807
[man laughs] The factory let
d’Illzach have the supplies
87
00:04:56,816 --> 00:04:58,815
he needed to make his vase.
88
00:04:59,519 --> 00:05:02,577
[steel hammering] In exchange,
they would get half the
89
00:05:02,578 --> 00:05:04,669
money when the vase sold.
[cash register chimes]
90
00:05:04,864 --> 00:05:07,792
Wait, slow down.
91
00:05:08,663 --> 00:05:11,740
If the vase sold.
[voice says “uh-oh.”]
92
00:05:11,740 --> 00:05:15,144
To make the vase,
d’Illzach used a
93
00:05:15,144 --> 00:05:21,105
variation of lost-wax casting,
but he created his very own
94
00:05:21,106 --> 00:05:25,196
process that let him preserve
the imprint of any material
95
00:05:25,198 --> 00:05:28,029
he applied to the model.
[squishing sound] Looking
96
00:05:28,029 --> 00:05:31,778
at my vase, you can see so
many objects pressed into
97
00:05:31,792 --> 00:05:38,693
the surface, like, um, twigs,
leaves, or fabric. Then, in
98
00:05:38,694 --> 00:05:43,370
another unusual move, d’Illzach
decided to make the body of
99
00:05:43,371 --> 00:05:47,928
this monumental vase with one
monumental pour of bronze.
100
00:05:48,552 --> 00:05:50,899
[hot bubbling] It
was a risk, though.
101
00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:56,059
If he did any step
incorrectly, oh, he would
102
00:05:56,075 --> 00:06:00,041
wreck the material he used
and have to start all over!
103
00:06:03,582 --> 00:06:06,868
[musical sting] Oh, luckily
he pulled it off, and then
104
00:06:07,070 --> 00:06:11,187
it was time to pivot from
art making to art selling.
105
00:06:11,625 --> 00:06:12,226
[change jingles]
106
00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:16,196
To find a buyer, we went on
display in the Exposition
107
00:06:16,535 --> 00:06:23,457
Universelle, or World’s
Fair, in Paris in 1889.
108
00:06:24,399 --> 00:06:29,034
World’s Fairs are huge
international exhibitions
109
00:06:29,049 --> 00:06:32,050
where countries show off
their scientific, artistic,
110
00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:33,831
and cultural achievements.
111
00:06:34,193 --> 00:06:38,306
The fairs started in
the mid-1800s, and they
112
00:06:38,423 --> 00:06:39,859
still continue today.
113
00:06:40,897 --> 00:06:44,863
[busy crowd chatter] At the
1889 exposition in Paris, we
114
00:06:44,888 --> 00:06:48,839
were placed in the middle of
a section entirely devoted
115
00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:54,731
to awesome bronze artworks,
and this vase was a huge hit.
116
00:06:55,608 --> 00:06:58,354
Or wait, maybe it was just huge.
117
00:06:58,803 --> 00:07:03,702
So huge that I distinctly
remember one family even
118
00:07:03,702 --> 00:07:06,340
used us as a landmark.
119
00:07:06,776 --> 00:07:08,687
[children screaming] The
family was huge, too.
120
00:07:09,004 --> 00:07:10,412
There were lots of kids.
121
00:07:10,785 --> 00:07:14,574
They decided to make our
vase a meeting point so that
122
00:07:14,575 --> 00:07:17,732
they could split up and find
each other later in the day.
123
00:07:18,522 --> 00:07:21,294
One kid came back a
bit early and spent his
124
00:07:21,296 --> 00:07:23,626
time examining the vase.
[child says “hmm.”]
125
00:07:23,626 --> 00:07:27,532
He walked slowly around
us multiple times,
126
00:07:27,830 --> 00:07:32,056
letting his eyes travel over
the artwork at a snail’s pace
127
00:07:32,318 --> 00:07:38,227
so he could notice the details.
Take it from a bug: going
128
00:07:38,227 --> 00:07:41,861
slow and noticing the details
makes the world a lot more
129
00:07:41,885 --> 00:07:48,186
interesting. Unfortunately, that
kid wasn’t just our biggest fan,
130
00:07:49,022 --> 00:07:51,426
he was one of our only fans.
131
00:07:51,426 --> 00:07:52,491
[Classical music resumes]
132
00:07:52,491 --> 00:07:55,630
D’Illzach was hoping that a big
buyer would see the big vase
133
00:07:55,634 --> 00:08:00,155
and pull out the big bucks,
but it was not meant to be.
134
00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:02,624
He blamed critics in the press.
135
00:08:02,902 --> 00:08:07,280
One even said our vase
was, “Without any claim
136
00:08:07,282 --> 00:08:10,513
to artistic virtue.” Ouch!
137
00:08:11,106 --> 00:08:13,035
I guess you have to have
a pretty tough shell to
138
00:08:13,042 --> 00:08:14,592
be a professional artist.
139
00:08:15,186 --> 00:08:19,743
To be fair, [laughs] we faced
some really big competition.
140
00:08:20,222 --> 00:08:25,954
The most famous artwork at the
1889 World’s Fair was the Eiffel
141
00:08:25,995 --> 00:08:31,789
Tower, a ginormous thousand-foot
high steel structure.
142
00:08:32,414 --> 00:08:35,256
It was just supposed to be
up for the world’s fair, but
143
00:08:35,259 --> 00:08:40,283
it was so popular that it
is still a famous landmark
144
00:08:40,314 --> 00:08:42,066
in the middle of Paris.
145
00:08:42,525 --> 00:08:46,533
So maybe we just
weren’t big enough?
146
00:08:47,238 --> 00:08:50,328
D’Illzach and the bronze
factory were mega bummed
147
00:08:50,399 --> 00:08:52,108
that the vase hadn’t sold.
148
00:08:52,370 --> 00:08:52,901
Ugh.
149
00:08:53,370 --> 00:08:57,621
But there was still a silver
lining, at least for me.
150
00:08:58,172 --> 00:09:01,968
We got to go see another
world’s fair, this time
151
00:09:02,005 --> 00:09:05,184
in Chicago in 1893.
152
00:09:05,184 --> 00:09:06,665
[Carnival music]]
153
00:09:06,665 --> 00:09:10,033
At Chicago’s fair, we were
in a section of art from
154
00:09:10,069 --> 00:09:14,257
Belgium, so we could represent
the Belgian bronze foundry.
155
00:09:14,573 --> 00:09:17,669
There were other cool
statues and a table of fancy
156
00:09:17,669 --> 00:09:21,165
plates, and so many people.
157
00:09:21,761 --> 00:09:25,504
Oh, I think we snails had as
much fun people-watching as the
158
00:09:25,506 --> 00:09:27,581
people had looking at the art.
159
00:09:28,016
--> 00:09:30,547
You’ll never believe
who I saw, though.
160
00:09:31,710 --> 00:09:33,057
That kid!
161
00:09:33,303 --> 00:09:36,924
He was a little older,
a teenager now, but he
162
00:09:36,924 --> 00:09:40,620
stopped to say hello to
us all, even the spider.
163
00:09:40,620 --> 00:09:42,981
[voice says “hello.”] He had
a little sketchbook with him.
164
00:09:43,388 --> 00:09:46,262
It looked like he had
made drawings of many of
165
00:09:46,262 --> 00:09:47,766
the objects at the fair.
166
00:09:48,257 --> 00:09:51,045
Oh, they were really good, too.
167
00:09:51,045 --> 00:09:54,164
[voice says “Thanks!”] Anyway,
around this time, there was a
168
00:09:54,178 --> 00:09:58,136
buyer who was kind of interested
in bringing us home, but
169
00:09:58,151 --> 00:10:01,341
things fell apart when they
were negotiating the price.
170
00:10:02,011 --> 00:10:06,812
[grumbling voice says “No.”]
And after the fair, we returned
171
00:10:06,812 --> 00:10:09,752
to the bronze factory again.
172
00:10:09,752 --> 00:10:10,971
[Dramatic classical music]
173
00:10:10,971 --> 00:10:13,168
Who knew artists had to be
good at selling things, too?
174
00:10:14,049 --> 00:10:17,598
That’s one of the toughest parts
of making art your livelihood.
175
00:10:17,834 --> 00:10:22,997
It takes time and money to make
art, especially big sculptures.
176
00:10:23,468 --> 00:10:27,218
So if your art doesn’t sell,
you might not have enough
177
00:10:27,218 --> 00:10:29,053
money to make the next piece.
178
00:10:29,605 --> 00:10:33,336
It’s a challenge artists have
been facing for centuries.
179
00:10:33,876 --> 00:10:37,223
Could they get a patron, someone
who supported their work?
180
00:10:37,608 --> 00:10:42,224
Could they find time to make art
while having a steady day job?
181
00:10:42,753 --> 00:10:46,550
Or could they sell their work
for enough of a profit to
182
00:10:46,550 --> 00:10:48,253
keep making art full time?
183
00:10:49,256 --> 00:10:52,510
D’Illzach had carved a
unique path for himself
184
00:10:52,538 --> 00:10:54,992
by collaborating with
the bronze factory to
185
00:10:54,998 --> 00:10:57,341
create our enormous vase.
186
00:10:57,536 --> 00:11:01,221
[metal hammering] The factory
helped to cover the cost, and
187
00:11:01,222 --> 00:11:05,471
in exchange they got to show off
their exceptional talents too.
188
00:11:05,665 --> 00:11:08,434
[voice says “check it out.”]
Great bronze artists need an
189
00:11:08,467 --> 00:11:11,977
equally great bronze foundry
after all. But while they were
190
00:11:11,983 --> 00:11:15,590
getting some good publicity at
the world’s fairs, the foundry
191
00:11:15,606 --> 00:11:19,582
really wanted to earn back their
investment on this giant vase.
192
00:11:20,021 --> 00:11:24,321
So we went back on display,
and D’Illzach kept reaching
193
00:11:24,321 --> 00:11:27,495
out to people to see if they
were in need of a 10-foot,
194
00:11:27,547 --> 00:11:30,410
half-ton, Roman-inspired vase.
195
00:11:31,048 --> 00:11:33,516
[crowd chatter] Who doesn’t
need a 10-foot, half-ton,
196
00:11:33,523 --> 00:11:36,201
Roman-inspired, bronze
vase is my question?
197
00:11:36,201 --> 00:11:36,223
[percussive sting]
198
00:11:37,572 --> 00:11:39,026
[Classical music resumes]
199
00:11:39,026 --> 00:11:42,575
To make a long story
short, we ended up in a
200
00:11:42,612 --> 00:11:48,008
third world’s fair, this
time in Brussels in 1910.
201
00:11:49,708 --> 00:11:54,687
And we were placed on a pedestal
in our very own section, where
202
00:11:54,732 --> 00:11:58,397
our vase towered over all
the people that walked by.
203
00:11:59,113 --> 00:12:03,349
Personally, I thought it was
kind of fun to be up so high.
204
00:12:03,888 --> 00:12:07,354
Since us snails are at the
bottom of the vase, usually all
205
00:12:07,355 --> 00:12:09,201
we can see are people’s shoes.
206
00:12:09,508 --> 00:12:12,492
Now we got a good look
at their shirts, too.
207
00:12:13,074 --> 00:12:18,224
And you’ll never believe
whose shirt I saw 11 years
208
00:12:18,313 --> 00:12:20,465
after our first world’s fair.
209
00:12:20,805 --> 00:12:25,449
That’s right, the kid, only
he wasn’t a kid anymore.
210
00:12:25,694 --> 00:12:27,462
He was a young man.
211
00:12:28,011 --> 00:12:31,551
He stopped by before the
exposition even opened [mature
212
00:12:31,551 --> 00:12:34,329
voice says “hello.”] because
he had his own work to display.
213
00:12:34,659 --> 00:12:37,960
I didn’t see what was in his
box, but he stopped to look
214
00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,799
at us all over again when he
walked in, circled the whole
215
00:12:41,821 --> 00:12:46,366
vase, and called us old friends.
216
00:12:47,127 --> 00:12:49,757
Guess you never know
what’ll inspire you
217
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,671
or who you’ll inspire.
218
00:12:53,087 --> 00:12:56,476
You just make the best
art you can and hope
219
00:12:56,476 --> 00:12:58,324
it’ll find its audience.
220
00:12:58,324 --> 00:12:59,407
[Piano music]
221
00:12:59,407 --> 00:13:01,990
Our vase wasn’t sold in
D’Illzach’s lifetime.
222
00:13:02,539 --> 00:13:05,925
He continued to make other
artworks that did sell,
223
00:13:05,942 --> 00:13:09,199
though, which meant he was
able to continue creating.
224
00:13:09,664 --> 00:13:14,420
Today, he is remembered
as a great artist.
225
00:13:15,183 --> 00:13:18,530
Eventually, we went back to
the bronze factory where we
226
00:13:18,531 --> 00:13:24,227
were made, then to a private
collector, and in 2009, we
227
00:13:24,228 --> 00:13:28,603
crossed the ocean again to get
to the Getty Museum, where we’re
228
00:13:28,603 --> 00:13:34,978
surrounded by art and visitors
from around the world once more.
229
00:13:35,821 --> 00:13:40,314
I just wish I could have
told that kid the path to
230
00:13:40,319 --> 00:13:46,155
success can be long and
winding, so you gotta slow
231
00:13:46,170 --> 00:13:49,347
down and enjoy the view.
232
00:13:49,347 --> 00:13:55,111
[Theme music begins]
233
00:13:55,111 --> 00:13:57,571
Host: I hope you enjoyed
learning about world’s fairs
234
00:13:57,615 --> 00:13:59,715
and this enormous vase.
235
00:14:00,728 --> 00:14:04,808
Join us next time when a
cabinet reveals its secrets.
236
00:14:04,808 --> 00:14:07,469
[creaking noise] To see
photographs of the vase,
237
00:14:07,633 --> 00:14:13,078
visit our website at
getty dot edu slash IOCT.
238
00:14:13,578 --> 00:14:16,593
We’ve also got a listening
guide with discussion questions
239
00:14:16,616 --> 00:14:18,589
and related activities there.
240
00:14:19,012 --> 00:14:21,317
This episode was written
by Claire Hupy and
241
00:14:21,318 --> 00:14:23,032
produced by Zoe Goldman.
242
00:14:23,358 --> 00:14:25,430
Tricia Brioux voiced the snail.
243
00:14:25,733 --> 00:14:29,675
Theme music, mixing, and sound
design by Alexandra Kalinowski.
244
00:14:30,284 --> 00:14:32,607
Christopher Sprinkle
is executive producer.
245
00:14:33,092 --> 00:14:36,041
Special thanks to curators
Anne-Lise Desmas and
246
00:14:36,041 --> 00:14:38,606
Miriam Schefzyk, as
well as Rebekkah Hart.
247
00:14:39,570 --> 00:14:41,826
These stories are
historical fiction.
248
00:14:42,118 --> 00:14:44,958
They’re based on historical
facts and deep research,
249
00:14:44,987 --> 00:14:48,054
but we’ve filled in some
gaps to make a good story.
250
00:14:48,571 --> 00:14:51,603
If you have questions about
what you’ve heard, write to us
251
00:14:51,685 --> 00:14:55,213
at podteam at Getty dot edu.
252
00:14:55,899 --> 00:14:57,108
Catch you next time.