Full Transcript for Hell and Gone Murder Line: Karen Mitchell [From the Archives]

scouring the area. Karen's missing posters went up everywhere. According to the missing persons info posted on the Doe Project, Karen was five feet inches tall, weighing 130 pounds. She had short, sandy blonde hair that went to her neck and greenish blue eyes. She was last seen wearing a long-sleeved tan shirt, baggy dark brown corduroy pants, and tan leather shoes with buckles. Karen was also wearing some jewelry, a silver necklace with crystal, three silver rings, and small hoop earrings. And she was carrying a reusable. 00:08:14 Speaker 3: Nalgene water bottle. 00:08:17 Speaker 2: Police scoured the area with canines and cadaver-sniffing dogs. Volunteers and law enforcement searched a lot of terrain. They had a big response. A lot of people saw those posters and some reached out with tips. A motel owner reached out to Mary and said he believed that Karen was at his motel. So she rushed there and saw a young woman. This young woman looked like Karen, but it wasn't her. Then, a few months after Karen disappeared, police got a potential lead. A witness came forward who said that he saw a woman who he believed to be Karen on the day she disappeared getting into a vehicle. The witness described the vehicle as a light blue four-door 1976 to 1978 sedan, possibly a Ford Granada, a Mercury Monarch, or a Nissan. The most memorable part of the description was actually the license plates. According to the witness, the driver had California license plates and the word Eureka printed on the rear plate's frame. This person, the witness, claimed that they actually almost got into a car accident. when the man in the mystery vehicle turned onto Broadway Street, a.k.a. the 101, and nearly hit him. After that, the witness said the car stopped and picked up a young woman who matched Karen's description. So, presumably because they were probably a little bit shaken, the witness remembered the driver well. The witness described the driver of the car as a white male, approximately 60 to 70 years old, with balding, light gray, or sandy blonde hair. the witness helped police create a composite sketch with even more details, including that the man had green or gray eyes and a large-sized nose that appeared to have been previously broken, and that he had a small build and wore eyeglasses. The witness stated that the driver of the car was wearing a long-sleeved, button-down, light blue shirt. 00:10:10 Speaker 3: We're going to be posting. 00:10:11 Speaker 2: Sketches of the car and the driver on Instagram at ellengonepod. Because this case is still technically open, There is not a lot of information out there about how police chased down the sleet. But it was reported on charlieproject.org that police did find a car similar to the car reported by the witness. Then, shortly after Karen disappeared, they apparently located the driver and gave that person a polygraph test. It was reported that that person was... ultimately cleared of any involvement in Karen's disappearance.

But again, we don't know details. Was this definitely the car the witness saw? Did the Eureka plates match? Or did police just find a car that resembled the description given by the witness and questioned the driver of that car? 00:11:02 Speaker 3: Like a lot of things. 00:11:03 Speaker 2: In this case, because this is still an open investigation, we're just not sure. I also have some other questions, including how reliable is this witness description? Because it hits me that the witness must have been very close to that other car to see the driver's eye color. Again, I wish we had access to the case file so that we could see exactly what this person told the police in the complete interview. Because so much of the subsequent investigation appears to be based on this witness description, it would be super helpful to find out if police were able to be sure that this was Karen the witness saw. Karen's disappearance shocked the local community. For the most part, the area where Karen vanished is known as a pretty safe area. And Karen went missing in the middle of the day in a well-trafficked area. Plus, of course, the irony of all this was that part of the reason why Karen moved to Humboldt County in the first place was because she and her mom thought of it as safer than where she had been living in Southern California. Karen's mother, Mary, gave the guardian more background. She said she had Karen when she was 18 years old and Karen's brother when she was just 16 years old. Karen's mother was married to their father, but they divorced when the kids were young. So Mary raised those two children as a single mom. For years, she worked multiple jobs to support her family. Mary said that her brother Bill and his wife Annie were the ones who suggested that Karen come and live with them and their three sons in Eureka. But as we said before, even though she seemed to find some peace in Eureka, Karen seemed to be getting bored. She started making more concrete plans to go to college. police did consider the possibility that Karen could have been a runaway. So just to briefly touch on that, on the day she disappeared, she was figuring out applications and financial aid. It seemed like she was planning for the future. So this made her friends and family believe she would not have run away. Also, she was very reliable about getting to work on time, and she specifically said she was headed there. She didn't pack anything to take with her. And also, Karen had a bank account. After she disappeared, no one ever tried to access that money. And, as we said before, she never came back home to visit her mother and brother with her prepaid airline tickets. Months went by, and there was zero sign of Karen. Eventually, the searches died down, and the headlines stopped. Mary and James went back to Southern California, and they waited. Over the years, Mary has talked to the media. She appeared on the Sally Jesse Raphael talk show. And she talked regularly with the detective in charge of the case, Dave Paris. From the interviews that Dave Paris has given about the case, it seems clear that he cared deeply about it. And it's something that he reflected on a lot during his time in law enforcement. Dave Paris told the Eureka Times-Standard back in 2012 that he was haunted by the case. He said he'd spent a lot of time thinking about what could have happened to Karen. Parts of Humboldt County are places where it could be easy for a person to disappear. It's an area that's surrounded by a lot of forests, and there are a lot of people growing marijuana in those forests. Giant redwood trees block out the view from the road. There were also a lot of transients in the area and a lot of hitchhikers. Karen was added to an ominous list of young women who had gone missing in and around Humboldt County. They were known as the Humboldt Five. These young women went missing years apart under different circumstances in various parts of the county. There's no evident connection between any of the cases. The only commonality is that all of them were young women and none of them were ever seen again. There's actually a spot there called Alder Point that is nicknamed Murder Mountains. 00:15:11 Speaker 3: It was originally apparently nicknamed that. 00:15:13 Speaker 2: After a serial killing couple hid out there in 1982. 00:15:17 Speaker 3: But the name kind of stuck around. 00:15:19 Speaker 2: Netflix actually made a documentary about missing people in the area called Murder Mountain. But later, questions emerged about how accurate the statistics of missing people were in the area because it's been widely reported that the California Department of Justice stated that in 2024... 244 children and 238 adults were reported missing from Humboldt County. But the sheriff of Humboldt County made a statement to KRCR News. He pointed out that of the 244 juveniles reported missing, 242 of them were later found. And out of the 238 adults that were reported missing, 203 were found. So, yes, At first glance, the sheriff said there seemed to be a lot of missing people in Humboldt County, but you have to look at the other side of the equation. Most of those people are eventually found. Unfortunately, Karen Mitchell was not one of them. Over the years, there were some suspects and people of interest who popped up, including two very high-profile serial killers. 00:16:31 Speaker 3: One of them was a man named Wayne Adam Ford. At around 6.30 p.m. 00:16:47 Speaker 2: On November 3rd, 1998, 36-year-old Wayne Adam Ford walked into the Humboldt County Sheriff's Office with his brother. He told police he wanted to confess to murder. Then he held out a piece of female breast that was sealed inside a plastic bag that he had in his jacket pocket. Wayne Adam Ford had a connection to the area. He had lived in Trinidad, a town about 30 minutes outside of Eureka. He was recently divorced at the time and had a two-year-old son. He lived a fairly isolated life.

His wife and son were living in Las Vegas. Wayne was a long-haul trucker, which he claimed gave him access to his female victims. Women came forward and described being attacked by a man who matched Wayne's description and who drove a truck. Police explored the possibility that he may have been involved in other crimes, including other murders. Carlton Smith, author of a book called Shadows of Evil, pointed out in the book that this was an interesting case because behavioral analysts at the FBI training facility at Quantico at the time believed serial killers tend to escalate over time. In other words, their murders get worse and more brutal. But Wayne's trajectory seemed to be the opposite. Wayne eventually confessed to murdering four people, including a young woman, Jane Doe. Her torso was found floating in Humboldt County near Eureka. Her case was known as the torso case. In 2023, Jane Doe was finally identified as 25-year-old Carrie Ann Cummings. Wayne was eventually convicted of killing Carrie Ann and three other victims. 00:18:30 Speaker 3: 26-year-old Tina Renee. 00:18:32 Speaker 2: Gibbs, who was killed in Las Vegas on May 16, 1998, and her body dumped in Kern County, California. 25-year-old Lynette White, who was murdered on September 25, 1998, in Ontario, California. Her body was dumped in an irrigation canal near Lodi, California. The final victim was 29-year-old Patricia Tamez. She was murdered in Hesperia, California, in October of 1998. Her body was dumped in an aqueduct in San Bernardino County. Wayne claimed that he picked up three of his victims as hitchhikers. But police said there were parts of his story that didn't really make sense. They said, Three of Wayne's victims were known sex workers. Because of that, they believe Wayne was lying about the real reason why they initially got into his vehicle. But he was telling the truth about where the bodies were located. Wayne was also unusual in that he randomly showed up. 00:19:28 Speaker 3: To confess to his crimes. And he seemed to have a. 00:19:31 Speaker 2: Genuine desire to stop rather than trying to just taunt the police. Police have stated Wayne killed his first victim about a month before Karen disappeared. But other than proximity to Karen, there wasn't much to go on evidence-wise. Neither the vehicle nor the description of the driver matched Wayne Ford's appearance. It was reported in 1999 in the Los Angeles Times that police were waiting on DNA tests to see if Wayne could be linked to Karen's case. But after that, nothing further was reported and police did not move forward with pursuing a case against Wayne. Wayne was operating in the same area as where Karen went missing, but he drove a truck, not the car the witness described, and the link between him and Karen was never established. Not to mention the fact that Wayne confessed to his kills, but he never mentioned Karen. Of course, serial killers and killers in general can lie, especially when they have something to gain. In Mary and James' 2015 interview with The Guardian, the writer asked Mary Kasper about the Wayne Ford rumors. Mary told The Guardian that Detective Parris told her Wayne Ford was given a lie detector test and that he was specifically questioned about Karen. that Wayne had denied having anything to do with her disappearance and that apparently he passed that test. Mary also told the newspaper she went a step further. She said in 2000, she personally went to see Wayne Ford in prison. Mary said she asked him point blank if he killed Karen. She also showed Wayne pictures of her daughter. Mary claimed that Wayne told her that, quote, she looks like she could be one of mine, end quote. But Mary said Wayne was asking her to write to him in prison and offering to give her information. 00:21:22 Speaker 3: Little by little, so she said no. 00:21:25 Speaker 2: For what it's worth, I think that Mary refusing to write to Wayne was the right call. This is just my opinion, but I see way too many instances of killers in prison who seem to get a kick out of stringing along journalists and family members, other people who write to them. In the end, most of them just end up wasting a lot of time and for those closest to the victim, causing even more heartache. But it does show how much Mary loved her daughter and how she was willing to go to any lengths to try to get answers about what. 00:21:56 Speaker 3: Happened to her. 00:21:58 Speaker 2: Karen's case made headlines again in 2002. It was reported in the Sioux City Journal that police in California were looking at similarities between Karen's case and the cases of two young women who were murdered in Oregon. In January of 2002, 12-year-old Ashley Pond disappeared on her way to the bus stop in Oregon City. Then, two months later, a classmate of hers, 13-year-old Miranda Gaddis, also disappeared in the same neighborhood, also near a bus stop. The two girls' bodies were eventually found at a property rented by 39-year-old Ward Weaver III. Ward Weaver III lived near the area where both girls disappeared. One of the girls' bodies was found in a shed. The other body was found buried under a concrete slab. Police found the bodies when they were investigating Ward Weaver for the rape of his son's girlfriend. In 2004, Ward Weaver was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole for the sexual assault and murders of Miranda and Ashley. Even though those murders happened in Oregon, it was reported that Ward Weaver grew up in Eureka, the same town where Karen was living at the time of her disappearance. Randomly, Ward Weaver III's father, Ward Weaver Jr., is also a convicted serial killer. Ward Weaver Jr. was arrested and convicted of the murders of a young couple in 1981 and dumping their bodies under concrete in his backyard. At the time Karen went missing, it was reported that Ward Jr. 00:23:33 Speaker 3: the father, was in prison. 00:23:35 Speaker 2: Other than Ward III's proximity to Karen Mitchell's

hometown at some point, Police apparently determined there was no connection between Ward Weaver and Karen Mitchell. But in 2015, another very infamous name came up as being potentially connected to Karen's case. Multi-millionaire real estate scion turned serial killer Robert Durst. Robert Durst, of course, was a member of the Durst family, a Manhattan real estate magnate. 00:24:15 Speaker 3: His family was worth an estimated. 00:24:17 Speaker 2: $ 8 billion and founded the Durst organization, which eventually went on to own, manage, and build an estimated 13 million square feet of Manhattan office towers. 00:24:28 Speaker 3: Robert Durst, of course, became a household. 00:24:30 Speaker 2: Name early in 2015 after being the subject of the HBO documentary series, The Jinx. I won't go through all the details of this case. This story is much too long and bizarre to cover completely here, but just to briefly recap, Robert Durst was suspected of several murders when the documentary aired in 2015, including the killing of his neighbor Morris Black in Texas in 2001, the murder of his friend Susan Berman in Los Angeles in 2000, and the murder of his wife Kathleen, who went missing in 1982 under very suspicious circumstances. Kathleen was 29 years old and in medical school when she vanished without a trace on January 31st, 1982. She and Robert had been living in Westchester County, New York. He told police they had an argument and she left their home and he had no idea where she was. But Robert waited five days to report her missing and their marriage had been volatile. Kathleen's family said Robert was controlling and had rage issues. So from the beginning, Kathleen's family always suspected that Robert killed Kathleen. After Kathleen disappeared, Robert did too. For a long time, he kind of disappeared off the grid. Family and friends had no idea where he was. Then, on September 30, 2001, the body of Robert's neighbor and friend, 71-year-old Morris Black, washed up in Galveston Bay, Texas. Morris Black had been dismembered. Police quickly focused on Robert Durst because, at the time, he was living in the same apartment complex as Morris Black. Robert Durst admitted he did dismember Morris' body and get rid of it, but he denied murdering him. He claimed Morris had attacked him and that he fatally shot Morris in self-defense before dumping his body. In 2003, Robert Durst was acquitted of Morris Black's murder in Texas. He ended up pleading guilty to tampering with evidence, relating to him cutting up Morris Black's body and disposing of it rather than calling law enforcement. 00:26:28 Speaker 3: Then, in 2015. 00:26:30 Speaker 2: Robert Durst was arrested in New Orleans, Louisiana, on weapons charges. He was charged with the murder of his friend, Susan Berman, in Los Angeles. And then, in 2021, following the massive global publicity that was brought to the case by the show The Jinx and a long, drawn-out trial in LA, Robert Durst was eventually convicted of

murdering Susan Berman. Robert Durst got life without the possibility of parole. He was sent to prison. Then, in October of 2021, he was finally charged with Kathleen's murder. But that trial never happened, because in January of 2022, Robert Durst died in prison at the age of 78. So there are a lot of questions that police can't ask Robert Durst about his past. There were a lot of years after Kathleen went missing and before Morris Black's body washed up when Robert Durst flew under the radar. He cut off contact with pretty much his entire family. He lived under various aliases, paying cash, sometimes living or presenting as a woman in different cities around the country. But we do know where he was for at least some of that time. And as it turns out, During the time when Karen went missing, Robert Durst was living in the small town of Trinidad, about 22 miles or less than half an hour's drive from where Karen Mitchell lived with her aunt and uncle. Robert had bought himself a modest three-story house near the coast. In March of 2015, after the last episode of The Jinx aired and after Robert Durst was arrested in New Orleans, several law enforcement agencies apparently were trying to review his address history. they wanted to figure out if he could be responsible for more crimes. FBI Director James Comey announced that he was ordering every FBI bureau in the United States to review cold cases. He wanted to find out where Robert Durst was over all those years. And according to multiple media reports, the FBI did appear to be covering all bases and taking the Humboldt County potential connection seriously. Police in Eureka announced they wanted to speak to Robert Durst about Karen Mitchell, though the Guardian article noted nothing was ever confirmed. We have to take a lot of these theories with a grain of salt. When you try to trace them back to their source, a lot of these theories seem to have been circulated at the time by a journalist named Matt Birkbeck. He wrote a book about Robert Durst called A Deadly Secret. He stated in that book that he believed Robert Durst could be responsible for Karen's murder. 00:29:08 Speaker 3: Because, he has claimed on his. 00:29:10 Speaker 2: Website, there are credit card records that put Robert Durst in Eureka on the day Karen disappeared. Matt also claims Robert Durst resembles the composite sketch, the one that police made of the man with glasses and a broken nose, who was driving the vehicle that the witness said they believed they saw Karen getting into. The New York Daily News also reported Robert Durst apparently visited the shoe store where Karen's Aunt Annie worked at least four times. At this time, he was dressing in women's clothing and presenting as female. Matt Burtbeck told the Daily News Robert Durst had also been seen at a homeless shelter, one where he claimed that Karen volunteered. Robert Durst was never charged in connection with Karen Mitchell's case, and though the case file is still open and can't be accessed through FOIA... We have no way of knowing if police ever even talked to him about Karen's disappearance in the years between 2015 and 2021, when he died in prison. I will say Robert Durst, when he presents as a man, does appear to resemble the composite sketch of the stranger who was supposedly the driver of the car Karen was seen getting into. Robert Durst also had connections with the area. But a lot of other people resemble that composite sketch. 00:30:26 Speaker 3: It's very general. 00:30:28 Speaker 2: And even if Robert Durst was in Humboldt County at the same time as Karen Mitchell, I'm still skeptical. It's definitely possible that Robert Durst committed other crimes, maybe even other killings, while flying under the radar for all those years. For example, in 2015, police announced they were looking at Robert Durst as a possible suspect in the disappearance of an. 00:30:49 Speaker 3: 18-year-old named Lynn Schultz. 00:30:51 Speaker 2: Lynn Schultz went missing in Middlebury, Vermont on December 10th, 1971. Police figured out Robert Durst and his wife Kathleen were living in the area at the time. Kathleen owned a health food store called All Good Things. And the last place that Lynn was seen was eating dates or prunes outside of that health food store. Also, Lynn had been telling friends she was considering starting a new life somewhere else. She told at least one friend on the last day she was seen alive she was planning on buying a bus. 00:31:21 Speaker 3: Ticket to New York, which is, of course, where Robert's family lived. 00:31:24 Speaker 2: Again, we don't know for sure what investigating police have done on all these leads. But at least on the surface, it does not seem as though Karen Mitchell's disappearance would have fit Robert Durst's M.O., Robert killed his wife Kathleen following domestic violence. Kathleen was threatening to leave him. He killed Susan Berman because she had information about Kathleen's disappearance, and. 00:31:47 Speaker 3: She may have been blackmailing Robert. 00:31:49 Speaker 2: And whether or not you believe Robert's story about self-defense or not, and again, Robert was acquitted of killing Morris Black, Morris was his neighbor, and witnesses said Morris. 00:31:59 Speaker 3: Was very confrontational. So Robert's killings, at. 00:32:03 Speaker 2: Least the ones that we know about, all appear to have been motivated by some kind of personal conflict. But there's no suggestion that other than Robert possibly going to her aunt's shoe shop, there was any kind of a personal connection between Robert Durst and Karen Mitchell. Also, it's been reported that Robert presented as a woman and wore women's clothing when he came into her aunt's shop. But the driver of the car that Karen Mitchell got into was described as a man. So what happens next in Karen Mitchell's investigation? In 2015, the family stated they were still in communication with the Eureka Police Department and the FBI. 00:32:44 Speaker 3: This is still an open investigation. 00:32:47 Speaker 2: Mary Casper told The Guardian that for a long time, part of her was still hoping Karen was out there somewhere alive. That she caught herself holding on to that hope at times, but at the same time, she desperately wanted closure. She wanted to know what happened to her daughter. And she wants justice, even if the truth about what happened to Karen ends up being horrifying. She told The Guardian, quote, we can't have both. We can't have closure without details, end quote. Police have asked anyone with any information about Karen Mitchell, contact the Eureka Police Department at 707-441-4300. 00:33:22 Speaker 3: I'm Katherine Townsend. This is Hell and Gone Murder Lines. 00:33:32 Speaker 2: Hell and Gone Murder Line is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me, Katherine Townsend, and produced by Edelise Perez. Special thanks to Amy Tubbs for her research assistance. Noah Kammer mixed and scored this episode. Our theme song is by Ben Salit. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and L.C. 00:33:54 Speaker 3: Crowley. 00:33:55 Speaker 2: Listen to Hell and Gone ad-free by subscribing to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If you are interested in seeing documents and materials from the case, you can follow the show on Instagram at Helen Gone Pod. If you have a case you'd like me and my team to look into, you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. 00:34:15 Speaker 3: That's 678-744-6145. School of Humans.