Full Transcript for Chapter Five | Stains

and Marla needs me and Marla's upset or Marla's career, you know, and I think that that's got to take a toll on a marriage, especially when you know that it's for your partner's work, right? He always has the excuse, even if you suspect or feel like there's some something a little inappropriate or whatever there. 00:03:02.539 --> 00:03:06.949 You know, he could always go back on it's it's my work, Lynne, I have to go right? 00:03:06.979 --> 00:03:07.280 Right. 00:03:07.370 --> 00:03:17.689 What happens when your partner is experiencing something that you can't really describe? Or maybe you do know? And I came up with three scenarios. 00:03:17.719 --> 00:03:18.409 Okay. 00:03:19.110 --> 00:03:37.800 So the first scenario is that the wife has no idea about this, in this case, shoe fetish, right? The partner doesn't know they're completely in the dark, which I find hard to believe. Second scenario is she was perfectly fine with it, which is also kind of unlikely. 00:03:32.909 --> 00:04:44.009 And the third and what is most fascinating to me about Lynne, and this situation is that the partner suspects that something is going on has seen some signs that something is going on, and maybe they know more than they're willing to admit. But they allow their brain right to trick themselves into believing that nothing's going on. And I think that the reason why it fascinates me so much is about how powerful our minds are, right? Because if we want to believe something, we just convince ourselves that it's true, specifically when we're talking about somebody that you know, we love. After thinking about that a lot. I felt that it makes even more sense that Lynn would be really upset with Marla based on Chuck and Marla's history and possibly maybe her own subconscious feelings of guilt or culpability for not being able to get her husband help sooner before it blew up into a situation like this. I mean, that being said, I'm not at all blaming Lynne because she could quite possibly could have tried to get Chuck to get some help. But I'm interested because I feel that she's a victim as well. 00:04:44.300 --> 00:04:52.370 The thing I liked about Lynne or the way I looked at it was that her husband did something. She was pissed she didn't show up with the bail money on time right? 00:04:52.370 --> 00:05:09.949 Had him cool his heels and then you know push comes to shove she stands up right? That's all school shit. I get it like I kind of I dig her position. On that her husband was going through something and she stood up. So that's the way I looked at it that that all that other stuff that you were talking about, I love hearing that from you. I think you've changed a little bit over time. 00:05:09.949 --> 00:05:22.519 Well, no, I mean, listen, I said things and then I went home and I thought about them. And I wa,s I thought, you know, I'm not in her situation. And I just found a lot of empathy for her over the week sitting back on it, reflecting on it. 00:05:22.550 --> 00:05:34.670 I think that's really good. And, you know, introspection, if that's the word or, you know, being able to think about what we've talked about over the week, and here we are back again. So, again, so let's entertain. 00:05:34.699 --> 00:05:43.550 Let's entertain. 00:05:34.699 --> 00:05:56.660 Here we are, and Chuck has been indicted and arraigned on the indictment, and the honorable Richard T. Andrias has been assigned. And Chuck makes a motion to dismiss in the interest of justice with Marla's affidavit attached in support. 00:05:56.689 --> 00:05:59.209 Yeah, that that affidavit was that was rough. 00:05:59.389 --> 00:06:01.910 And then he went a little bit litigation crazy in July, right. 00:06:01.910 --> 00:06:02.360 We talked about that. 00:06:02.329 --> 00:06:12.860 He started suing everybody. And then finally, while nursing a Heineken at Luke's Bar and Grill in the Upper East Side, Chuck.... 00:06:10.939 --> 00:06:11.750 Has a heart attack. 00:06:11.779 --> 00:06:12.889 Has a heart attack. 00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:27.829 Chuck has a heart attack mid lunch while dining with his defense attorney Sal Alosco and Marla's manager Richard Fields. 00:06:27.980 --> 00:06:33.709 This happens at yet another negotiation session with his lawyer and a Trump official. 00:06:33.740 --> 00:06:41.240 There was probably some negotiation going on outside of my purview. Yes, I was not there. And Chuck had a heart attack. 00:06:41.269 --> 00:06:42.589 Chuck had a heart attack. 00:06:44.610 --> 00:07:29.879 "Extended Stress Test Gives Jones a Mild Heart Attack." Quote, "It was not agita that kept beleaguered publicists Chuck Jones from attending his hearing and Manhattan Supreme Court yesterday. It was a mild heart attack that caused him to collapse halfway through his Heineken at Luke's restaurant while attorney Sal Alosco and Marla Maples manager Richard Fields looked on. But Chuck fell to the floor and was out for 20 minutes. He was rushed to Lenox Hill Hospital, but checked himself out 20 minutes later." Wow. There's a lot to unpack here. First of all, I love that the Daily News writer uses one of our favorite words. Agita. 00:07:29.939 --> 00:07:30.420 Agita. 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:34.259 Very good use of Agita. You don't hear it too much on the west coast. 00:07:34.259 --> 00:07:34.350 Nope. 00:07:34.379 --> 00:07:41.730 No, you do not but it is a fan fave. I also love that they say that they're tired of hearing about the case when they're the ones reporting on the case. 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:43.860 They'reloving every second of this case. 00:07:43.930 --> 00:07:49.990 Chuck Jones may be stressed out over this whole thing but he sure isn't letting it affect his social life. 00:07:49.990 --> 00:08:06.879 First, he's at Elizabeth Taylor's charity event with his client Latoya Jackson, rubbing elbows with Ivana Trump, then he's at Mickey Mantle's restaurants five year anniversary party and afterwards spotted at the now closed but iconic New York

City hotspot, Elaine's. Did ever go there? 00:08:06.910 --> 00:08:08.860 No, no, no. 00:08:06.910 --> 00:08:08.860 never made it there. Nah. 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:11.439 Did you get a nosebleed above 21st Street? 00:08:11.470 --> 00:08:16.240 Yeah, you know, look, Elaine's was a place with with the celebrities hung out. I was never a celebrity. 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:23.620 Now he's having a heart attack at Luke's Bar and Grill on the Upper East Side that had just opened in 1991. 00:08:23.620 --> 00:08:46.960 Plus, come on. This heart attack is giving me serious Sopranos vibes. When Tony and Janice and Bobby plot with Uncle June to make it look like he's got dementia in order to try to get a mistrial because he's hoping that if he gets the mistrial, the prosecution is not going to retry him for the crimes they you know, they practice his answers and what he would know what he wouldn't know. 00:08:47.049 --> 00:08:56.590 Yeah, I love the Sopranos. Right? You know that it's my favorite TV show of all time and one of the reasons I'm the business because I watched The Sopranos and wanted to write. 00:08:56.590 --> 00:08:57.730 You said, "I could do that." 00:08:57.789 --> 00:08:59.919 That that episode itself is fantastic. 00:08:59.919 --> 00:09:02.289 Well, yes, but it's stolen from real life. 00:09:02.320 --> 00:09:02.679 Right. 00:09:02.809 --> 00:09:20.870 Genovese crime was you know, Vincent the chin giganti you know, walked around the village you know, for years in a bathrobe, drooling on himself making believe that he was fucking out of his mind right when he wasn't right he ended up dying in jail. Do I think that Chuck faked the heart attack? I do not. I do think he was under a great deal of stress. 00:09:20.870 --> 00:09:22.100 Did you think he was milking it though? 00:09:22.549 --> 00:09:22.940 Look... 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:25.460 How do you milk a heart attack? 00:09:25.460 --> 00:09:30.350 Look at the fact that he checked himself out of Lennox after 20 minutes. I mean look, it's definitely suspect. 00:09:30.679 --> 00:09:33.769 But you know, there was no doubt he was under a great deal of stress. 00:09:33.929 --> 00:09:38.970 Yeah, that's also by the way the episode where Ralphie burns Pie-O-My and then Tony wacks him in the kitchen. 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:39.360 Yeah. 00:09:40.110 --> 00:09:54.539 Anyways, as a result of Chuck's heart attack, the hearing on the matter is held, but Judge Andrias decides to not rule on the motion to dismiss in Chuck's absence. So the postponement of the ruling. 00:09:51.299 --> 00:09:56.340 Can you describe how that affected the mood in your office? 00:09:56.370 --> 00:10:00.240 We wanted very much this not to be dismissed. 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:13.110 Just on a in the interest of justice grounds because we didn't think it was the right call. I mean, Andrias did the right thing. Defendants not in court. You're not gonna make that major ruling there. I felt like we knew we were gonna win that ruling. 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:13.470 Okay. 00:10:13.500 --> 00:10:14.340 We knew that... 00:10:14.340 --> 00:10:15.210 So you weren't sweating it out? 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:17.639 o, no, at that oint. This is the way it works. 00:10:17.639 --> 00:10:23.190 ight. You got to judge and you ot a law clerk? Yeah. The judge s not supposed to talk to you bout tell you what's going on. 00:10:23.190 --> 00:10:33.210 he law clerk can give you a ittle wink and a nod. Yeah, ight. So like, when I was in ourt, I was like, Hey, how are e looking? Yeah, I got. So we ere okay. I was not sweating. 00:10:33.539 --> 00:10:47.129 The article that I was referring to goes on to say this is the third time that Chuck has passed out, which his attorney Sal Alosco blames on the pressure from the state to settle the case, you're getting blamed for the heart attack. 00:10:47.070 --> 00:10:50.009 I mean, that's that's his job is first turning right. Blame the prosecutor. 00:10:50.000 --> 00:11:15.830 The most amazing revelation in this article. Just might be that despite all this, Chuck is quoted, as insisting that even amidst all this brouhaha and angina, Chuck insisted that he and Marla had recently walked hand in hand down Fifth Avenue, joking about the thought of Donald Trump attending Lamaze classes. 00:11:15.870 --> 00:11:19.200 Yeah, I'm...one of two things is happening, right? 00:11:19.230 --> 00:11:19.379 Yeah. 00:11:19.379 --> 00:11:23.940 Chuck is becoming so unglued that he's making stuff up and believing it. 00:11:23.940 --> 00:11:24.360 Right. 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:49.080 Or I'm getting played, right? Because if Marla was walking down Fifth Avenue with Chuck talking about, I mean, come on. Um, I mean, we're done. We're finished. I mean, it. This is a situation where we, we knew that we were going to have to go forward with the case. And the last thing you want is a victim who's a lunatic, right? I was pretty sure she wasn't a lunatic. I was pretty sure that Chuck was a lunatic. 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:50.250 So you thought this was a lie? 00:11:50.370 --> 00:11:51.960 Yeah, come on. 00:11:50.370 --> 00:11:51.960 That didn't happen. Right. 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:54.480 He believed it. 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:57.480 Like I said, I know a lot of pathological liars. And they think that they're telling the truth. 00:11:57.960 --> 00:11:58.769 Yeah, of course. 00:11:58.769 --> 00:12:00.480 I don't know if Chuck was. But.. 00:12:00.629 --> 00:12:16.710 Listen, I mean, we've all been in situations where we can believe the bullshit that we are telling ourselves sure. But you know, I think this is, this is a guy who's telling reporters me and Marla are walking down the street holding hands talking about Lamaze classes. I'm just happy that it did not turn out to be true. 00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:21.549 Yes, but you did feel slightly like maybe we are through the looking glass here at this point? 00:12:21.549 --> 00:12:23.200 If that was true, I was screwed. 00:12:23.230 -->

00:12:23.559 Right. 00:12:26.110 --> 00:12:34.629 "Chuck Marla Ad Nauseum. Chuck suffers Another Defeat or Defeat in Court." Good one, huh? 00:12:34.659 --> 00:12:35.649 I love that headline. 00:12:35.830 --> 00:12:42.009 On September 20, 1993, Justice Richard Andrias ruled that the motion be denied. 00:12:42.539 --> 00:12:59.820 Yeah, we won that one. That was that was good for us. Andrias in my view rule correctly, right. He basically looked at two grounds. One is that the evidence against Chuck was substantial, right? We had the videotape, we had the victim saying he wasn't allowed to be in there. We had the shoes, with the guns, we had all that stuff. 00:12:56.759 --> 00:13:21.090 So substantial evidence against him. Secondly, he also went on to say that, in addition to behavior involved, not only criminal acts, but also a serious breach of trust, right that Marla's trust was breached by Chuck, because they had this friendship working relationship and the fact that he stole her stuff was a breach of trust. And so therefore not the type of case you would want to dismiss in the interest of justice. 00:13:21.149 --> 00:13:25.710 Yes, the language that he used. He said"it was a pernicious invasion of Miss Maples privacy." 00:13:25.740 --> 00:13:29.190 Yeah, he was. 00:13:25.740 --> 00:13:29.519 He's a wordsmith that Andrias guy. 00:13:31.230 --> 00:13:39.990 The article adds, "Well, what about a healthy degree of kinkiness?" Wow, Daily News. kinkiness is not in fact, illegal. 00:13:40.049 --> 00:13:42.509 Yeah. And Judge Andrias wasn't gonna bring that up. 00:13:42.539 --> 00:13:48.240 Right? I say bump up the kinkiness. In rejecting Chuck's motion. 00:13:45.659 --> 00:14:03.480 Andrias disagreed with the defense's argument that Jones had already suffered enough public humiliation, nobody was hurt, and that Jones's actions were the result of a compulsive disorder that borders on an irresistible impulse. Any reaction to that? 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:05.879 Nobody was hurt. 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:05.879 That's not true. Marla was hurt. 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:16.529 I think Andrias looked at that when he when he's talked about the behavior being not only criminal, but also a breach of trust. You know, the fact that it was a result of a compulsive disorder. I mean, look.... 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:17.190 It's not a defence. 00:14:17.190 --> 00:14:23.429 I mean look, kleptomaniacs or, you know, they have a compulsive disorder, right. You know, you prosecute them just the same. 00:14:23.429 --> 00:14:33.299 I think the defense is argument wise, instead of prosecuting the guy, let's show him some compassion and get him into some kind of court ordered counseling. 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:50.250 Are you saying that they wanted us to offer him in a adjournment in contemplation of dismissal with some health services? Yeah, we did. He didn't want it. These guys wanted to go to trial. I mean, and look after they lost the motion Alosco came out a strong Yeah, he came out as heavy. 00:14:50.639 --> 00:15:00.240 Alosco further alleged that district attorney Robert M. Morgenthau had personally called Trump himself to get Marla to continue the case. 00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:02.610 Yeah, that's not true at all. 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:17.789 Because there was a big investigation over why this case was even brought, because at the time Trump was friends with Morgenthau, at the time, Marla was testifying at a Grand Jury Donald was having lunch with Morgenthau at the Plaza Hotel. 00:15:14.669 --> 00:15:18.269 There was a lot of political pressure. 00:15:18.870 --> 00:15:20.940 That's not true. 00:15:18.870 --> 00:15:20.940 Let's remember who Robert M. 00:15:20.940 --> 00:15:24.570 Morgenthau was. Robert M. 00:15:20.940 --> 00:15:27.629 Morgenthau was called the Dean of district attorney's, right. 00:15:24.570 --> 00:15:35.669 Okay. This is a guy who had been the DA for over 20 years. He was the district attorney for New York County, which is Manhattan. 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:49.259 He is the most respected district attorney who probably ever lived, right. The idea that he and Trump were somehow cooking up a plan to get Marla to prosecute Chuck is absurd. 00:15:43.470 --> 00:15:53.340 And the fact that Alosco would make this allegation is really crossing the line. It's it's definitely a slap on the the wrist. 00:15:53.399 --> 00:16:01.169 So during the time that you prosecuted Chuck Morgenthau is your boss? Yes. Do you have another boss in between you? And Morgenthau? 00:16:01.259 --> 00:16:03.029 Yeah, like nine, right. 00:16:03.029 --> 00:16:11.879 So there's, there's a but so so he's the big boss, and you have some other bosses ahead of you. Right? Did Morgenthau ever call you to talk to you specifically about this case? 00:16:11.909 --> 00:16:16.620 Trisha I was there five years Morgenthau never called me once. On any case, right. I was sworn in by him. 00:16:16.620 --> 00:16:17.340 Even who you were? 00:16:17.700 --> 00:16:36.990 I was sworn in by Mr. Morgenthau, and I was sworn out by Mr. Morgenthau. Two times we had you know, I would see him once in a while on the street and say, hey, boss, right. That's kind of it, along with 13 others Assistant DA's, who were saying at the same time, hey, boss, but no, he never called me on this case. 00:16:32.789 --> 00:16:54.240 And my bosses never pressured me on this case. There was no like, you know, there's this idea that there was some sort of waterfall of pressure raining down from Morgenthau onto little ol me, right. This was not what was happening. Certainly, it was a press case. Certainly the press office was talking to me. But the fact that there were bosses breathing down my neck, no. 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:54.539 As Kevin said, Robert M. Morgenthau was one of the most respected district attorneys basically, ever he started his civil service career as a US Attorney for the Southern District of New York in Manhattan, appointed by President John F. Kennedy, and

was forced out of office because of political pressure by the Nixon administration. Morgenthau was known for doggedly pursuing white collar crimes and his belief that prosecuting crime in the suites was just as important as prosecuting crime in the streets. He inspired a law and order character, which was the Manhattan district attorney, and he died at Lenox Hill Hospital, where Chuck was treated for his heart attack, just 10 days shy of his 100th birthday. Back to the motion to dismiss, so how did it feel for the office to hear that Judge Andrias denied Chuck's motion to dismiss? 00:17:54.930 --> 00:18:08.099 I think from a legal standpoint, we were very happy because it was the proper legal ruling. Personally, I mean, look, it's good news. Bad news, right? The victory is hollow because all right, great. 00:18:04.529 --> 00:18:08.880 What does that mean? It means we got to go forward. 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:11.220 But, it always feels good to win, doesn't it Kev? 00:18:11.220 --> 00:18:13.079 Sure it does. 00:18:11.220 --> 00:18:18.599 But the truth of the matter is that the people of the state of New York v. Charles Jones is now heading like an out of control freight train towards trial. 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:29.430 Here come the nudes. "Marla? Trump? Who Nude?" It's another great headline. 00:18:29.460 --> 00:18:30.420 Yeah, I love that headline. 00:18:30.450 --> 00:18:31.500 So what's this all about? 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:41.140 On November 22, 1993, we get this package delivered to the office delivered to the DA's office. It shows up in my office and it's a big manila envelope and I open 00:18:39.339 --> 00:18:59.799 A mimeo who? 00:18:41.140 --> 00:18:56.140 it up and inside is this you know this picture of Marla Maples naked. Yeah, that's the first thing you see right and then there's an aggressive letter in there is talking shit about Marla but then you know. 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:58.990 When you look at the, the naked picture, you realize quickly that it's a mimeograph, right. 00:18:59.799 --> 00:19:03.130 A mimeograph, like a photocopy. 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:08.650 Photocopy. Okay, so tell me what's mimeographed on this photo? How does this work? 00:19:08.650 --> 00:19:24.819 Basically what it is, is it's a picture of a naked woman who is laying on some sheets in a bed. It was reported to be Marla because someone had cut out Marla's head from another picture right and taped it over the head of this woman who was naked. 00:19:24.849 --> 00:19:27.400 And then copied the whole thing to make it look like... 00:19:27.490 --> 00:19:30.250 Look like one image of a photo you know.... 00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:31.240 Of a naked Marla. 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:47.920 Somebody somebody did some look before Photoshop, which I know some software program that people use nowadays, before that this was something that would happen you would cut out someone's not that I would but people would cut out people's heads and put them on the bodies of someone else and then copy it then it looks like a picture but it was not that. 00:19:47.950 --> 00:19:48.400 It wasn't Marla. 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:53.529 Wasn't those letters like the ransom letters where they cut each you know, letter out some kind of like that right? 00:19:53.559 --> 00:20:22.599 I guess from back in the day. So in addition to that, and you know, was this letter, the letter said basically that Marla was a homewrecker. She was a terrible person. And you know, she should you know be humiliated and here's a picture that humiliates or blahdy blah blah blah. It also finally talked about the person who sent the package said that they also had other pictures right. Okay. And other pictures of Marla naked pictures of Marla, Donald naked, and they had pictures of Marla and Donald, and a banana. 00:20:22.750 --> 00:20:24.190 Finally, this banana. 00:20:24.220 --> 00:20:24.579 Yep. 00:20:24.910 --> 00:20:25.779 So where is it? 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:27.460 Yes, there's no banana picture. 00:20:32.019 --> 00:20:50.380 This is a quote from the Daily News. I'm looking at what purports to be a photocopied snapshot of Marla Maples in zee nude. It came to me in the mail with a hateful letter claiming that there are other nude photos of Donald Trump, Marla Maples and a banana. Say it with me and a banana. 00:20:50.380 --> 00:20:50.769 A banana. 00:21:02.309 --> 00:21:04.200 So the Daily News got the same letter? 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:22.480 Yeah, they got the same letter, they get the same picture. And look, let's identify this for what it is right? As I told you, it was not actually a picture of Marla Maples. The Daily News knew t at. But I didn't report that ri ht. They said reported. They new when they looked at that hat was not her. But again, thi is the this is the press, newsp pers trying to sell papers and ge 00:21:22.599 --> 00:21:29.019 So what you're commenting on is that they didn't go on to say it's clearly somebody else's body on Marla's head. 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:30.400 I don't think that that's in the article. 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:30.640 Right? 00:21:30.670 --> 00:21:35.890 Right. So your first impression was it was a pretty good fake, but obviously a fake. 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:43.579 We had been looking for the quote on quote, nude pictures for quite some time we did search warrants. We asked Chuck's lawyers about it. 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:43.579 We were definitely on to that. 00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:47.869 When I saw that, you know, it was early in the morning, I got the package. I looked at him like oh, shit, here's the picture. 00:21:47.900 --> 00:21:49.609 So what did you guys do with the package? 00:21:49.640 --> 00:21:52.400 We sent it to the police department, see if we can get fingerprints off of it. 00:21:53.029 --> 00:22:14.630 Here is what Chuck Jones had to say about the whole ordeal. Quote, "Chuck Jones leaped to the defense of Marla and Donald, whatever else may be going on between us, smearing them like this is

not something I condone." He mysteriously added. "I'm concerned for those too. 00:22:14.990 --> 00:22:19.009 Furthermore, it's not in my best interest to have this out there. 00:22:19.220 --> 00:22:21.710 I've been trying to resolve our dispute." 00:22:23.029 --> 00:22:35.809 Dispute. So it's interesting that he talks about their dispute as if it's like some kind of contractual problem, right? And what we're talking about, he was charged with felonies indicted on felonies. This was not some kind of dispute that he's reffering to. 00:22:35.809 --> 00:22:38.720 He' referring to it as whatever else is going on here. 00:22:38.750 --> 00:22:39.710 Whatever else. 00:22:38.750 --> 00:22:39.710 Yeah. 00:22:39.859 --> 00:22:44.569 Whatever else is you've been charged with multiple felonies in Manhattan criminal court. 00:22:44.660 --> 00:22:45.230 Going to jail. 00:22:45.230 --> 00:22:45.380 Correct. 00:22:46.369 --> 00:22:50.059 Chuck may not have been in the mood to smear Marla in 1993. 00:22:50.210 --> 00:22:57.650 However, years later, he would try to block her scheduled performance at Carnegie Hall. 00:22:53.210 --> 00:23:01.039 When asked why, Chuck tried to cock block Marla singing engagement. Here's what he said about it. 00:23:01.210 --> 00:23:18.640 Because a lot of people who live in New York know what happened at my trial. And she's onstage coming into Carnegie Hall. I've been to Carnegie Hall. I've been there with Frank Sinatra and with Benny Goodman and people like that, or people that I knew or Perry whether and their reputation. It's like a like a protest. 00:23:18.849 --> 00:23:19.930 You were protesting? 00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:31.450 Yeah, because they're on stage playing behind and she's offensive yourself being the same. It probably seems happy birthday pretty good. It was again a way for me to get rid of some of these trail thoughts that I was betrayed. 00:23:32.380 --> 00:24:08.289 I think it's very interesting that Chuck, in attempting to discredit Marla's talent shows, Happy Birthday as an example. Okay, happy birthday is hard as fuck to sing and most people butcher it. The third Happy Birthday has a full octave leap, meaning a seven note jump in the musical scale. It's got a huge range. You got to be able to sing high, you got to be able to sing low, and everything in between. I never, ever want anyone to sing happy birthday to me ever. First of all, I'm not the biggest fan of birthdays. 00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:19.269 Second of all, there's nothing worse than looking at a bunch of your loved ones performing terribly. It's just It's just what Happy birthday is song off key. It's just wildly depressing. 00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:26.170 Yeah, you got some issues with this. All I can say is I think we should find out when her birthday is and send her a bunch of stuff. 00:24:26.390 --> 00:24:37.009 It's May 12. And everyone can feel free to send me money and gifts. Just don't go singing happy birthday in my DM's unless you are Beyonce. 00:24:31.940 --> 00:25:02.420 Back to the articles. Jones argued that the letters could have come from someone who works for Ivana's office. He went on to say and this is my favorite part. The cops I spoke to because he's just talking to him left and right, said that they thought a woman wrote the letter because it talks so much about Ivana and the kids who else would get so upset about Marla talking maternity clothes. 00:25:02.630 --> 00:25:03.799 What do you think about that statement? 00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:05.930 I mean, look, do I think Ivana sent that letter? 00:25:05.930 --> 00:25:13.759 No. Do I think that Lynne sent that letter? No. Do I think Chuck sent the letter? Yes. 00:25:10.220 --> 00:25:13.759 Could I prove it? No. 00:25:13.819 --> 00:25:23.960 I have never faxed anything to Donald Trump and Marla Maples regarding Marla Maples nude photographs, or I've never I've never shown anybody Marla's pornographic videotape. 00:25:24.049 --> 00:25:43.940 This is more of the same bullshit right? He picks up the phone he calls a reporter and he like throws out there these these accusations as if they're truth right? I mean, this guy, you know, he's he's on the master manipulator side of things, right? He's trying to get his story out there. You have to remember, every day this guy woke up and said, how can I fuck with the DA's case? And that's what he did with us. 00:25:43.940 --> 00:25:46.819 Well, what do you think about him saying the cops I talked to. 00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:48.589 He didn't speak to no cops. He's full of shit. 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:56.940 Yeah, at this point, it's pretty clear that Chuck may in fact be bananas. 00:25:50.609 --> 00:26:09.660 And finally, the article goes on to say that Trump had other concerns. According to the writer, one source believe that among the reputed nudes, there may be odalisque's of the Donald. And that's his biggest nightmare that those photos get out. 00:26:09.900 --> 00:26:11.009 What's an odalisqu 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:14.630 Well, I will gladly tell you. An odalisque's 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:44.630 Jack, I want you to draw me like one of was originally what the chambermaid or female attendant in the household of the Ottoman Sultan was called. The term has since evolved to reference the eroticized artistic genre in which a woman lies on her side on display for the spectator. In short, for pop culture reference, it's like when when a Rose says to Jack in Titanic raw me like one of your French your French girls. Wearing this, alright, wearing this, only irls. 00:26:50.119 --> 00:26:50.569 this. 00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:56.930 So the idea is that there are pictures out there of Donald J. Trump naked laying on his side? 00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.269 Yes, in this context, Trump is the French girl. 00:26:59.299 --> 00:27:06.200 Yeah, I mean, look, we did hear that there was some naked pictures but we'd never heard about odalisque's. 00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:16.650 I can absolutely see Trump on a

velvet couch. You know, on his side with all the his belly just kind of flopped to one side. One leg up bent like feeding himself grapes. 00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:17.759 You're making me sick. 00:27:23.910 --> 00:27:43.049 "Her shoes were made for videotaping." In December 93, The New York Daily News announces to the world that Chuck Jones has parted with yet another defense attorney. Pour a little out for Sal Alosco. 00:27:38.430 --> 00:27:48.390 You're fired. Because here comes Chuck's new council. B. Anthony Morosco. 00:27:48.809 --> 00:27:56.190 Yeah, so we got Sal Alosco we got B. Anthony Morosco. We've got Fahringer. 00:27:51.329 --> 00:27:58.109 Herold Price Fahringer, these these got some good names here. 00:27:56.190 --> 00:27:58.109 Right. This is... 00:27:58.470 --> 00:28:01.769 Yeah, I think Sal had one too short of a syllable of his name. 00:28:01.799 --> 00:28:12.690 Yeah, I don't know what happened, but initial look, Sal Alosco, you know that a good job, you know, he fought hard, but you know, it was time for a new attorney. And here comes B. Anthony Morosco. 00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:15.509 So when you first met Morosco, do you recall that? 00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:17.309 Yes, I do. Um, 00:28:18.390 --> 00:28:20.099 You didn't know Morosco from the streets? 00:28:20.130 --> 00:28:21.839 No, no, he would know he was a Westchester guy. 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:28.200 Right. So Morosco used to be the head of the Appeals Bureau in the Westchester County District Attorney's. 00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:29.039 Well, that's odd. 00:28:29.069 --> 00:28:44.430 And he had left there and then became a trial lawyer and it tried cases. He was a very, very smart lawyer on the law, right? Um, Look, my first thought when I saw him like, oh, this dude looks a little bit like Jabba The Hutt, right? I mean, he was very, very overweight. 00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:51.539 You know, the term you sweating Alaska? 00:28:51.569 --> 00:28:51.930 Yeah. 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:55.319 I you know, he was he was he was a sweaty dude. 00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:57.569 He's a sweater. 00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:58.140 Hey, you casted me as the sweater. 00:28:58.140 --> 00:28:59.700 There you go. 00:28:58.140 --> 00:28:59.700 Yes, I did. 00:28:59.690 --> 00:29:07.339 Yeah. My character on the show that Kevin and I met was a excessive sweater was was I inspired by Morosco? 00:29:07.369 --> 00:29:07.880 Yes, you are. 00:29:09.109 --> 00:29:39.769 So the article doesn't just announce B. Anthony Morosco, BAM, entrance into the case. He probably had that on his briefcase, right, BAM, in gold lettering. It also announces that B. Anthony Morosco filed a motion which was granted by and the judge is referred to in this article as Rich Andrias. Rich Andrias granted the motion for the defense to videotape Marla's apartment. 00:29:39.799 --> 00:29:53.089 Yeah, I mean, this is pretty standard stuff, right Trish? The defense had moved, you know, to have an opportunity to inspect the crime scene, right. That is the scene where the crime took place. 00:29:50.059 --> 00:29:59.509 Chuck going into that apartment without permission and authority to be there. Made Marla's apartment the crime scene. Yeah. 00:29:56.839 --> 00:30:10.519 And so they asked not only to inspect it. They want the videotape. It wasn't. Well, we didn't oppose it. Right. I mean, we we actually did not oppose that application because that's what we thought was the the proper thing to do. 00:30:10.569 --> 00:30:28.269 Maybe, you know, Morosco is thinking we're going to show that because of the placement of the videotape, which we're going to get into again a little later. You would never be able to tell what was in the back, right, because it was just in front of the door. 00:30:24.759 --> 00:30:34.450 He dips out, he dips back, you don't know whether he's got Marla's shoes in the bag, which would be a fantastic argument if you didn't have the shoes. 00:30:34.990 --> 00:30:45.700 Yeah, I mean, I think when Morosco came on the case, and he made that application, it pointed out to me that this is a lawyer know what he's doing. This is a smart, like you said it's a smart argument to make. 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:55.000 I think he's also trying to justify his retainer. He's freshly into the case. And I think he's sending a message to the DA's office that this thing is headed to trial. 00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:57.069 He definitely took an aggressive stance. Yes. 00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:12.069 Also in his order to allow the defense to film Marla's apartment Judge, Rich Andrias set January 4, 1994, as the date certain for the hearing and the trial for the People v. Jones. 00:31:17.220 --> 00:31:21.269 And then Chuck sues Marla, again. 00:31:21.299 --> 00:31:21.660 Yep. 00:31:22.680 --> 00:32:26.099 The Daily News reports that while Marla was signing autographs in Macy's in Midtown, Chuck has Marla served by a woman posing as a fan, with a civil lawsuit claiming that Marla owed Chuck $187,000 in back commissions. Chuck's server reportedly waited in line for her turn. And when Marla handed her the autograph, the woman said, I have something for you too. Pulled the bait and switch handing Marla her paperwork. As usual, Chuck had some amazing things to say about suing his former friend and client. He's first quoted in the article as saying "Marla and Donald are probably still together because of me. I kept them from killing each other." But then he insisted he was not raining on Marla's upcoming wedding to Trump. "I would have filed on Friday, but it would have gotten in her wedding story. And I didn't want to ruin that. 00:32:26.339 --> 00:32:32.849 Getting married to Donald is one of the most positive things in her life." 00:32:33.690 --> 00:32:37.829 I mean, this guy's totally lost it. We have a date certain for trial at this point. 00:32:37.829 --> 00:32:38.339 Yeah, right. 00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:50.930 He decides I'm going to go sue the victim for$187,000. He can't get enough of himself.

He needs to be in the papers every day. He needs to say these ridiculous things. And I think he's obsessed as we've talked about before. 00:32:50.930 --> 00:32:51.170 Yeah. 00:32:51.230 --> 00:32:56.779 And I think at the end of the day, he is not holding on to reality very well. 00:32:56.809 --> 00:32:57.200 Right. 00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:04.589 And whether it's the pressure of the trial, whether it's the pressure of losing Marla, whether it's the pressure of not being part of the Donald Trump orbit anymore. 00:33:04.650 --> 00:33:22.650 All I can tell you at this point was that we were working hard to get ready for trial. And this all this noise in the background was just insanity. I think that he has decided that this entire case, this entire city, this entire nation, is waiting for the Chuck Jones trial. 00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:34.690 As if things weren't already strange enough, Chuck subpoenas Trump and Marla's prenuptial agreement. 00:33:35.289 --> 00:34:01.029 Just days after the papers report that Marla was served at Macy's where she was signing autographs to promote the launch of her new maternity wear, Chuck strikes again. Chuck makes the bizarre comment to the Daily News that he will be subpoena in Donald and Marla's prenuptial agreement since it will have a clause in it prohibiting Marla from ever saying anything negative about Trump. 00:34:01.299 --> 00:34:08.679 Yeah, this is one of those things that was a little bit left field for me. I mean, yes, Marla was going to be a witness at the trial, obviously as the victim right? 00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:25.539 Whether or not she could or would or had any reason not to say bad things about Trump, in my opinion, had nothing to do with the trial, right? Whether or not there was a disparaging or disparagement clause in the prenup was something that you know, they decided... 00:34:25.539 --> 00:34:26.800 There 1,000% was. 00:34:26.900 --> 00:34:38.570 Again I didn't see the prenup. I didn't see any non disparagement clause. To me it was again you know this Trisha salting was his three ring circus this was like ring four right some insanity going on about it. 00:34:38.570 --> 00:34:39.650 But did they filed the motion? 00:34:40.190 --> 00:34:42.889 No, they never filed him. I don't know. I don't remember seeing any. 00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:45.349 Now if they filed that motion would you have opposed it? 00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:54.679 At that point, I probably wouldn't oppose it because I was so tired of all the bullshit. My view is this, January 4, let's go you bring your guys I'll bring mine. 00:34:54.679 --> 00:34:54.829 Right. 00:34:54.829 --> 00:34:57.559 Let's go, i'm done. I'm done with these B. 00:34:57.559 --> 00:35:05.420 Anthony Morosco's and Sal Alosco's and Chuck Jones everyday being in the newspaper saying some sort of baloney right? I was done. Like let's rock and roll. 00:35:05.780 --> 00:36:08.449 Richard Fields responded to Chuck's allegations that he was going to subpoena the prenup

by saying, as we get closer to Marla's wedding, he'll do everything he can to take the beauty of the day away from her and getting closer to the day, we certainly were. Cue the Donald and Marla wedding music it's finally happening. After a series of reports the papers over the summer of 1993 that Trump had postponed the wedding indefinitely. But Marla had been seen running around town carrying her Carolina Herrera dress everywhere she goes just in case. The wedding was finally set for December 20, 1993, in the Grand Ballroom at Trump's Plaza Hotel, just feet away from where a year and a half earlier, Chuck was initially confronted about stealing Marla's shoes. 00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:10.280 Did you just say feet away? 00:36:10.369 --> 00:36:11.840 Just feet away! 00:36:12.110 --> 00:36:13.130 It's hilarious. 00:36:13.219 --> 00:36:29.900 Finally tonight, for the media hoards panting for pictures of the married couple. This was the payoff. The kiss for the cameras. Marla all in white, wearing that $2 million tiara with 326 blue white diamonds on loan from a local jeweler. The couple happy in wedlock. 00:36:30.710 --> 00:36:34.940 We never can get away from what marriage really means. And tonight we had a perfect ceremony. 00:36:41.829 --> 00:37:00.130 The Trump, Marla wedding was an event so there was newspaper coverage of this thing. There were news channels, talking about breaking into their regularly scheduled programming and in fact, some did cut into their regularly scheduled program which was a big deal. Back in the day, right? 00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:07.119 Yeah, Trisha, this was the biggest event in New York City in a couple years. 00:37:02.199 --> 00:37:19.360 I mean, this was the ticket, right? People wanted to go to this people wanted to know about it. Yes, they broke one or two of the stations broke in, you know, breaking news like Trump and Marla got married. It was it was bizarre. 00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:30.099 So Donald and Marla, they had their wedding on a Monday night which you know, I've never been to a wedding on a Monday night and I've been to what feels like thousands of weddings. 00:37:30.250 --> 00:37:31.300 You're a popular person. 00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:50.409 I am a popular person Kevin. No, what do you have a wedding on a Monday night? The message it sends to me is either you cheap or B. you think it's a better day for news coverage, right? Because on Saturday, people are you know, doing other things like I don't know, going to weddings, right? 00:37:50.530 --> 00:38:03.130 So here they are. Monday, December 20. And Marla and Donald invite. How many people do you think were at this wedding? How many people are at an... How many people were at your wedding? 00:38:03.340 --> 00:38:04.030 I don't remember. 00:38:04.059 --> 00:38:10.389 You don't remember? Well, Donald and Marla had a 1,100 guests at the Plaza. 00:38:10.420 --> 00:38:10.719 Wow. 00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:45.940 For this event, right as well as hordes of media, fans and spectators who posted up outside The Plaza who didn't attend this blessitt event you may be asking yourself well. Trump's young children with his first wife, Ivana, Donald Jr, Ivanka and the other one released a statement through their publicist explaining that they would not attend their father's second wedding, opting instead to remain an Aspen with their mother. No big deal, they'll still have the opportunity to attend round three. But, back to who did attend the wedding. 00:38:45.969 --> 00:38:51.190 Stars of entertainment, business and politics streamed into Donald Trump's Plaza Hotel tonight. 00:38:51.519 --> 00:39:01.570 They came in big hair, bleached hair and lots of fur. People like Don King, Howard Stern, New York Mayor David Dinkins, Tony Cutane and Susan Lucci. 00:39:02.110 --> 00:39:24.550 OJ Simpson, Joy Behar, Howard Stern, Rosie O'Donnell, weren't the only New York City celebs and hoi polloi to attend Marla and Trump's wedding. No, one other luminary showed up, and that was in fact, New York County District Attorney Robert M. Morgenthau. 00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:39.039 Let me just jump in here, right. Look. Yes, Robert M. Morgenthau did go to the Trump wedding. That happened. I had nothing to do with that. I was not asked whether or not he should go. I didn't know that he was going. I just knew that it was reported that he was there. 00:39:39.070 --> 00:39:50.590 I thought he was just as buttoned up straight laced guy who would never do such a thing to to, to pick up the phone and call Donald Trump or call you but, he headed out to the wedding at the Plaza. 00:39:50.739 --> 00:39:52.659 Mr. Morgenthau was a political official. Mr. 00:39:52.659 --> 00:40:02.260 Trump was a political official at the time, not in politics, but you know, definitely a donor to people in politics. And you know, it was the Event of the Year right so i mean Mr. 00:40:02.260 --> 00:40:04.869 Morgenthau that was invited. He went that is a true statement. 00:40:04.869 --> 00:40:07.119 That's what happened. It did not affect this case. 00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:12.280 But the burning question that everybody wants to know is did you go? 00:40:13.750 --> 00:40:19.090 Ha ha. No, I did not go to the wedding. I was not invited. Nor did I want to be invited. 00:40:19.030 --> 00:40:20.860 Oh, come on. You were mad. 00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:23.110 Trisha. I had to prepare for the case of the century. 00:40:23.139 --> 00:40:33.400 You're telling me you didn't want to go eat some overcooked filet mignon and tuna tar tar on Donald Trump at the Plaza and rub elbows with Susan Lucci was there! 00:40:33.429 --> 00:40:37.659 Listen I'm a big Susan Lucci fan but I would I had no desire. 00:40:37.659 --> 00:40:38.949 So you pressed your tux. 00:40:39.250 --> 00:40:39.639 No. 00:40:39.639 --> 00:40:46.150 Hanging in and waiting to see if at the very last second, Marla Maples was gonna call and invite you. 00:40:46.179 --> 00:40:54.699 I mean, you know me, I don't have a tux

now. I didn't have a tux then. Jesus, either. Go get some hardware, I'm gonna have to rent it tux. 00:40:51.130 --> 00:40:56.889 You know, look, I understand the implications. Mr. Morgenthau that was at the wedding. 00:40:56.980 --> 00:41:05.829 Therefore, he must be controlling the case. All I can do is tell you in the listeners, Mr. Morgenthau never spoke to me about this case. Mr. Trump never spoke to me about this case. 00:41:06.099 --> 00:41:12.519 Marla and Donald got married, very happy for them. Wish them well, I was at work. You know, we had to get ready. 00:41:17.460 --> 00:41:26.130 The judge put the case down for January 4, which means Kevin and his squad are working through the holiday. 00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:34.579 January 4 is a good day to put on the calendar for trial if you're going to have press because you got the whole courthouse to yourself. 00:41:34.579 --> 00:41:36.980 You get the whole bigaila. No competition. 00:41:36.989 --> 00:41:48.000 There's no competition. It's going to be your case. He wanted to move the case forward. It had been pending for quite some time and ready to go. It was as we call it ripe. But look that put me in a bad position. Right? Yeah. 00:41:48.000 --> 00:42:06.300 What did that mean? That means that during the Christmas holidays, rather than you know, being wherever I used to go back then probably nowhere, because I was making $34,000 a year. You know, I had to basically stay in New York City. Going to work every day to 100 Center Street to my little tiny office. 00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:08.130 With your rubbers on your shoes. 00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:12.119 No, I never wore that shit. That's, that's no. 00:42:12.269 --> 00:42:14.099 Oh, that's not me. Nah. 00:42:14.190 --> 00:42:27.000 Rubbers are like a shoe condom that went around men's dress shoes, so that they would not get a damaged from salt because they would salt where the snow went and so it kept your your shoe looking sharp. 00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:36.000 I mean, the one good thing about going to work at that time is you didn't have to wear a suit, right? Because it was no one's in the building. 00:42:31.469 --> 00:42:43.110 I Giannetta and Higgins, we were actually working to try to get the case ready for hearings and trial on January 4. 00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:56.110 And let's get down to brass tacks. Okay, for Giannetta and Higgins, gettin ready for trial over here lik this is no offense to either on of them. But with their Fift Avenue beat, they were more use to flirting with rich housewive and giving tourist directions 00:42:56.099 --> 00:43:08.880 This was this was a big case for both Giannetta and Higgins. Yes, yeah. I mean, but look, this was a very unusual case for everybody. Right? I was little bit shocked by this case, right? 00:43:04.170 --> 00:43:25.469 I mean, my entire career was all about trying to do the best work I could case after case fter case and moving up the ine, never in my wildest dreams hat I think I was going to have shoe case, a case that evolved around a bunch of hoes. Right? And, you know, no atter how hard I tried to say, ell, it's just another case. 00:43:25.469 --> 00:43:35.820 on't worry. It was in the ewspaper every day. Right. So I ouldn't forget about it. I you now, and Trisha too. I had 100 ther pending felonies, right. 00:43:33.090 --> 00:43:39.659 t wasn't the only case I had, b t it took up all the time. Righ. That was the job and that's wh t I was doin 00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:41.610 And he had to win at all costs? 00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:48.150 I don't think you want to go down in the annals of criminal justice history is the person who lost the shoe case. Right? 00:43:48.150 --> 00:43:52.079 Right. So you're working hard just to just just the three of you guys or does Lynch poppin in and out? 00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:53.579 Lynch was popping in and out sometimes. 00:43:53.579 --> 00:43:58.260 What they had to do at that point is one of the more important things we had to do is marshall the evidence. 00:43:58.260 --> 00:44:00.869 Okay, let's describe that for the listeners. 00:44:00.869 --> 00:44:06.000 What entails in this case of the Chuck Jones case, marshalling the evidence? 00:44:06.030 --> 00:44:12.449 Well, we had a bunch of physical evidence, right, we had shoes, right, about over 30 pairs of shoes. We had Marla's underwear. 00:44:12.510 --> 00:44:13.230 Underwear. 00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:14.489 We also had her... 00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:15.420 lingerie.... 00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:16.949 All this stuff was in different bags. 00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:18.630 Stalking, from what I hear. 00:44:18.869 --> 00:44:19.829 Sure, there were stockings... 00:44:20.739 --> 00:44:21.309 Nylons. 00:44:21.340 --> 00:44:41.110 The three of us the three, the three boys, were in charge of going through all this stuff. And so since we had to prove that all of the replacement value of the shoes was over $1,000 in line prove the felony crime possession of stolen property. We had to take the shoes and have them individually analyzed by an expert. 00:44:41.230 --> 00:44:41.650 Okay 00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:46.840 In order to do that, we did take the shoe because the shoes you got to remember the shoes have been sitting around for over a year now. 00:44:46.840 --> 00:44:47.050 Right. 00:44:47.050 --> 00:44:52.269 Police property right? And so they're in a big giant black garbage bag. 00:44:52.300 --> 00:44:52.570 Okay. 00:44:52.599 --> 00:45:09.190 That's the way they were. They brought them from the property clerk's office to my office, and on this particular day, our job was to match those shoes, and then individually bag them and seal them and have them ready to be analyzed by an expert. 00:45:09.309 --> 00:45:09.639 Right. 00:45:09.659 --> 00:45:54.150 And in order to do that we they brought the shoes in. I remember Giannetta and Higgins, they showed up and they dumped the shoes on the floor of my office. Because we had to match them. Right? And look, to be

honest, I gave the order for them to do that, because I don't want to touch the shoes right. Dirty, stinky shoes, right? I mean, that's not my gig. So they started doing that. And you know, they were goofing around and you know, funny guys, great, great dudes, and they're goofing around and I'm trying to do my work. Then all of a sudden, I hear Higgins say, yo, G what do you think this is? I didn't know what they were talking about. And then I heard Giannetta laugh. And Giannetta had this beautiful infectious laugh, right? It was like, a very high level. He goes, "Hey, Kevin, take a look." So I look over to them. And there's like Giannetta, and Higgins. 00:45:54.150 --> 00:45:55.079 They're still laughing? 00:45:55.380 --> 00:45:56.639 They're laughing. They think it's funny. 00:45:56.880 --> 00:46:00.119 I get up, I walk over to them. 00:45:56.880 --> 00:46:00.449 And they there was a spiked heel. 00:46:00.510 --> 00:46:00.929 Okay. 00:46:01.530 --> 00:46:02.670 It was blue if I remember. 00:46:02.699 --> 00:46:03.059 Okay. 00:46:03.090 --> 00:46:04.800 And they were like, what do you think this is? 00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:13.469 And they point inside the shoe on the sole. And when I looked inside, I saw a stain. And I was like, What do you guys go for? 00:46:13.769 --> 00:46:16.289 Like a sweat stain? Like she got sweaty feet that you're saying? 00:46:16.710 --> 00:46:24.809 And they will like, nope. I'm like, and then it kind of came to me was like, ah, no, really? 00:46:20.909 --> 00:46:31.170 And they're like, yep, and I'm like, all right, would you guys got to do is got to go through all the shoes now individually and see if there's any more stains in the shoes. 00:46:31.170 --> 00:46:31.469 Right. 00:46:31.860 --> 00:46:35.460 So they did that as I sat there trying to fix it. 00:46:35.460 --> 00:46:37.409 So they rip and open the bags. 00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:40.019 They did that. 00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:43.619 And when they were done doing that there was like four or five other shoes that had a similarly stain. 00:46:43.619 --> 00:46:44.400 Similarly stained. 00:46:44.730 --> 00:46:54.900 Yes, similarly stained. And so what I did was I ordered them to take those shoes, bag them individually and take those shoes to serology. 00:46:54.929 --> 00:46:56.039 Where's that located? 00:46:56.099 --> 00:47:11.010 It's in lower Manhattan on the east side. And it's within the the coroner's office. There's a there's a lab there where they would test drugs and test you know, huge fluid mouth in this case shoes. 00:47:07.170 --> 00:47:14.579 Yeah. And I said take them there and find out from serology. 00:47:11.010 --> 00:47:15.000 What, what is the source of the stain? 00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:15.480 Yes. 00:47:16.619 --> 00:47:18.960 And they they did is they were asked. 00:47:18.989 --> 00:47:19.949 Put on the rubbers. 00:47:20.429 --> 00:47:21.780 They don't think they wore rubbers but... 00:47:21.780 --> 00:47:22.650 Yes they did! 00:47:22.650 --> 00:47:25.320 Okay whenever they brought those shoes to serology. 00:47:25.380 --> 00:47:25.710 Okay. 00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:28.650 And I was then left alone in my office. 00:47:29.099 --> 00:47:34.469 I'm picturing you're sitting there, leaned back. Thinking about the day's events. 00:47:34.469 --> 00:47:37.619 I'm thinking about how do I make lemonade out of lemons is what I'm thinking. 00:47:38.010 --> 00:47:38.550 What do you do? 00:47:38.579 --> 00:47:39.300 I have an idea. 00:47:39.449 --> 00:47:39.960 Okay. 00:47:40.110 --> 00:47:50.610 And my idea is, I'm gonna call my friend Mike Sheehan. Mike Sheehan was back in the day when I started at the Manhattan DA's office in 1989. 00:47:46.829 --> 00:47:52.440 Mike Sheehan was the number one homicide detective in the city. 00:47:52.469 --> 00:47:54.659 Wow. How did you get that accolade? 00:47:54.659 --> 00:47:56.190 Well, I mean, he did Robert Chambers. 00:47:56.250 --> 00:47:56.699 Okay. 00:47:56.909 --> 00:47:59.400 He did a bunch of trials back in the day. 00:47:59.909 --> 00:48:12.510 Someone I met the first day I was there. He actually sought me out first day in the office in August of 89. And he, uh, he sought me out and said, "I know your father. He told me that I should look out for you." 00:48:12.539 --> 00:48:13.079 Okay. 00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:48.489 And I will say that from 1989 until he died recently. He was a second father to me. He could not have been a more loyal person and taught me a lot about the job, taught me a lot about what it means to be a man and taught me a lot about what loyalty is all about. And at the time, in 1993, going into 1994, Mike had left the police department. And he had taken a job with Fox Five news, which was the Fox affiliate in New York City, and he was the crime reporter. 00:48:48.519 --> 00:48:49.030 Okay. 00:48:49.059 --> 00:48:56.920 So in addition to being this amazing, amazing homicide detective and mentor, he then became a reporter. 00:48:56.949 --> 00:49:02.530 Right. On air reporter so not not that not the papers, he was on air and on Fox. 00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:04.210 On air reporter Mike Sheehan. 00:49:04.269 --> 00:49:07.269 We're gonna kick it over for the crime beat to Mike Sheehan. 00:49:07.300 --> 00:49:07.659 Right. 00:49:07.690 --> 00:49:08.110 Mike? 00:49:08.170 --> 00:49:17.289 Of course, he had incredible connections within police department. So right always knew, right. And he would always say to me, "kid, hey kid." He used to call me kid. "Hey kid, you ever get anything good? Let me know." 00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:17.920 Let me know. 00:49:17.980 --> 00:49:27.909 Right. And so as I sat at my desk, I knew that I had to call Mike Sheehan. But I also knew that I couldn't do it from the DA's office phone, right. So I left... 00:49:27.940 --> 00:49:28.809 Put on your rubbers. 00:49:28.869 --> 00:49:51.159 No, I did not put on rubbers. I went home, and I got home to my apartment, 15 Stuyvesant mobile, and I called Mike and it was probably

around eight o'clock and their news, they used to have a 10 O'Clock News, right? So I called Mike up, and he's like "Hey kid. How are you?" called me kid. And I go, "I'm great. Mike. I think I got something for you." He goes,"What do you got?" I go, "it's Chuck Jones related." He goes. 00:49:51.159 --> 00:50:13.059 Yeah, I go. "It's good though." He goes, "what is it?" I tell him. "I said we just said three of the shoes to serology." He goes "What do you mean?" I said"Marla Maples shoes, we are marshalling the evidence today, and we found certain stains in the shoes." He goes. "You telling me that there's spunk in the shoes?" "Yeah, I think there's spunk in the shoes." He goes, "please tell me nobody else got this?" I go "Mike. 00:50:13.059 --> 00:50:36.340 Nobody else got it, but you gotta protect me." He goes, "I love you kid." And he hangs up the phone. 10 o'clock comes I turned out 10 O'Clock News with the TV dinner, my TV dinner Who the hell knows what I eating back then? All myself. I was very lonely. I'm watching the 10 O'Clock News, the Anchor says we're going to go live to Mike Sheehan, who has breaking news on the Chuck Jones case. And they go to Mike and he's standing in front of serology. 00:50:36.489 --> 00:50:38.440 He went to serology to the unit out? 00:50:38.510 --> 00:50:45.199 He went out to serology. He's standing live in front of the in front of the building with his trench coat on. 00:50:46.039 --> 00:50:47.360 I wanted him to be in trench. 00:50:47.420 --> 00:51:02.389 And in his microphone he says "I've learned exclusively from sources close to the investigation, that three of the shoes that Chuck Jones has stolen have been transported here to serology, they will now be tested for semen." 00:51:02.900 --> 00:51:06.500 The 109 Precint in Flushing Queens Mike Sheehan Fox Five News. 00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:11.570 That moment is when I knew that all was right with the world. 00:51:12.530 --> 00:51:24.769 Now let me ask you a question. Was that the first time that every now you're a leak Kev, you are a leak? You are a leak in this case. Was that the first time you had ever leaked as a district attorney? 00:51:25.190 --> 00:51:26.210 I'm not gonna comment on that. 00:51:26.989 --> 00:51:29.030 Was that the last time that you? 00:51:29.480 --> 00:51:32.929 All I can tell you is this is the first time that I'm saying publicly that I leaked. 00:51:33.139 --> 00:51:36.650 Did you guys ever find out what the stains actually were? 00:51:37.099 --> 00:51:37.699 Yes we did. 00:51:38.090 --> 00:51:43.219 Were you able to tie them to Chuck Jones or to Donald Trump? 00:51:44.900 --> 00:51:46.699 Next time on Heeled. 00:51:46.730 --> 00:51:51.349 We are going to test the splotch to see if that is in fact Chuck Jones' semen. 00:51:51.380 --> 00:51:54.590 How could she not know it was Chuck? I mean, who else was it going to be? 00:51:54.619 --> 00:51:58.699 Have I gotten myself in a situation with someone who's a nut? 00:51:58.849 --> 00:52:06.019 And the first witness called and the People Of The State of New York v. Charles Jones is Marla Maples Trump. 00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:11.000 He thought if I could confuse her if I can get her angry that she will explode on the stand. 00:52:11.030 --> 00:52:16.190 She never thought oh, you know what, maybe I should pay Chuck for all of the work that he's done. 00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:20.110 If the jury believed him, then certainly Chuck would have been acquitted. 00:52:20.170 --> 00:52:23.230 This is when the fireworks really start. 00:52:23.260 --> 00:52:27.730 He's making her stand up from the witness stand and hold her panties in the air. 00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:29.920 She's just horrified. 00:52:29.949 --> 00:52:37.989 He blows a huge hole in Marla's testimony behind me I hear the press clickety clack and everybody's writing shit and I'm like, Oh my God. 00:52:35.380 --> 00:52:41.110 What have I done? This can be the front page in New York Post tomorrow. Drunk DA? 00:52:41.949 --> 00:53:05.619 Heeled is a Justkill Production produced by Tandace Khorrami, Luke Groneman and Tyler Patrick Jones. It's written by Kevin J. Hynes and myself Trisha LaFache. The Heeled them music was written by Chad Crouch. Additional shout out to Mike Shafranak, our editing wizard, our sound engineer Kyle Raps and to Max Alcabez, owner of Pink Cloud Studios in Los Angeles, where we record these shoescapades. 00:53:05.650 --> 00:53:16.539 Follow us on our Instagram at heeled.podcast or check us out on our website heeledpodcast.com. Tune in next week for another exciting episode of Heeled.