Full Transcript for Ep. 72 Pivoting with Purpose: How Ashley Cao Built A Career in Lending

TRANSCRIPT 🔗

WEBVTT 00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:15.279 Welcome to Heather Ewing, the CRE rundown. 00:00:15.279 --> 00:00:22.879 I am your host, Heather Ewing, and from beautiful California, I have none other than Ashley Cow to join us. 00:00:22.879 --> 00:00:26.079 She is the director of Old Capital Lending. 00:00:26.079 --> 00:00:27.359 Ashley, welcome. 00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:29.359 Thank you, Heather, for having me. 00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:31.920 Yeah, I'm so glad we were able to connect. 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:33.439 This is fantastic. 00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:41.200 So, to get going, let's share a little bit with our audience how you got into lending. 00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:43.439 That is a good question. 00:00:43.439 --> 00:00:47.200 And so I don't come from a banking or finance background. 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:50.079 I actually come from a marketing background. 00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:54.719 Um, and so I went to school for marketing, did marketing for about five years. 00:00:54.719 --> 00:01:04.159 And then um this was, you know, 2008, 2009, when uh there's not a lot of opportunities available at that time. 00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:13.680 And so I was I was doing marketing for a couple companies, and then I decided I wanted to pivot and figure out what else I can do with the knowledge that I had already. 00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:22.640 And um one of my friends uh at the time, or it's actually a friend slash, he was interviewing me for another position. 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:25.359 And he's like, What why don't you become a a recruiter? 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:26.959 And I was like, What is a recruiter? 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:29.120 I have no idea what that what that is. 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:31.920 And he's like, Oh, we recruit people to come work at companies. 00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:35.599 And he's like, Your skills are pretty transferable because you did marketing. 00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:39.120 And so I um was open to it. 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:40.159 I explored it. 00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:46.400 I ended up joining an agency, um, and I recruited for a lot of tech companies out here in the Bay Area. 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:57.920 Um, and then I eventually went to Tesla and worked for Tesla for about four years as a technical recruiter, and then um made the leap over to being another technical recruiter at uh Google. 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:00.879 Um, so I was at Google for about four years. 00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:04.239 Uh, I was in their self-driving division, so it was called Waymo. 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:08.639 Um and so throughout those years, I was like, okay, this is fun. 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:13.520 I was helping people find jobs and um, you know, working with four great companies. 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:19.280 And then um, throughout that career, I saw a lot of layoffs that happened. 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:25.280 And so as a recruiter, I'm recruiting people, but we're we're letting go of people and then we're filling them with other people. 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:33.759 And so it was really hard to see that because a lot of the people that I recruited became friends and then they had to get laid off or whatever for whatever reason. 00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:43.599 And um that was kind of like a wake-up call to me as far as well, my position is also replaceable. 00:02:43.599 --> 00:02:55.680 And so I decided that I needed to figure out another backup plan as far as like where where should I go or what can I do if I had gotten laid off today? 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:59.520 And that's kind of when real estate started coming into the picture. 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:01.759 And so I started investing in real estate. 00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:11.680 And at that time I was burring a lot of properties in the Midwest and uh eventually moved into multifamily and invested in passively into multifamily. 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:18.400 And uh I wanted to learn more about what a general partner does in multifamily. 00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:24.159 And um, so one of the guys that I was investing with, I asked him, I was like, How did you learn how to do this? 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:36.319 And he said that he invested passively into somebody else's deal and asked if he can go on the due diligence trips with those guys and learn and just kind of be a fly on the wall. 00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:40.560 And so I told him, I was like, when I'm ready, I'm gonna do that to you. 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:42.400 And so like I did that. 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:46.639 I learned by going on these trips with him and I invested with him as well. 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:50.159 So I was kind of paying for my own education and investing at the same time. 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:55.840 And then um during one of those trips, this is the long story of how I got into lending. 00:03:55.840 --> 00:04:02.080 And so during one of those trips, the lender that he was working with came out to walk the property with us. 00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:03.759 And so his name is Paul. 00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:09.199 And so he is the founder or one of the owners of Old Capital Lending, the company I work for now. 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:11.599 And we met and we became friends. 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:15.280 And this is throughout my my tech career, so I was still working in tech. 00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:21.920 And um we became friends, and you know, I would always just kind of throw deals at him of like, hey, I'm looking at this deal. 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:26.160 Can you tell me what you think from an underwriter perspective and all that stuff? 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:32.319 And um so, you know, fast forward to 2023, I got laid off. 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:35.600 And so I always tell people I got paid to leave. 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:48.480 And so it was a it was like kind of like um uh I knew it was gonna happen eventually, but it was still shocking when it happened. 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:59.360 Um, and so I got laid off, and um uh, but then I had all this real estate that I

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was buying throughout the years, and so I was like, okay, well, I have some runway now to figure out what's my next move. 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:04.879 And I had bumped into Paul maybe like a month after literally a month after I got laid off. 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:09.839 And um he was like, Hey, like I heard tech's laying off pretty heavily. 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:10.879 Are you okay? 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:15.600 And I said, actually, I got laid off, so I'm just trying to figure out my next move. 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:19.519 And um he's like, Oh, why don't you just come work with me? 00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:21.839 And so he and I told him the same thing. 00:05:21.839 --> 00:05:25.279 I was like, I I don't come from banking, I don't come from finance. 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:27.600 Um, but he's like, Oh, I can teach you that. 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:29.759 Like those are things that's just math, right? 00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:36.560 Um and so he's like, you know, you have a good skill set of just being able to connect people with solutions, right? 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:37.839 That's what I did with engineers. 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:47.120 They were like, Oh, I'm looking for a new job, I try to find them a new position, or vice versa, where um and it we're hiring for our team and I have to go source engineers. 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:51.199 And so for what I do in lending right now, that's that's pretty much what we do. 00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:53.199 We're a commercial mortgage broker. 00:05:53.199 --> 00:06:02.000 And so, Heather, if you came to me and you said, Hey, Ashley, I'm looking for a loan on this project, then I would work within my network to find a solution for you. 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:06.480 So, um, so that's the long story of how we how I got into lending. 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:22.480 But it was all, I would say being open to taking pivots and then also um just making myself uh putting myself into rooms with people that I wanted to learn from and um and making myself, I guess, valuable to them. 00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:30.720 So bringing value to them really allowed me to open, uh, to have doors open for me uh to get into different spaces. 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:37.759 And I think you approached that really well, you know, kind of as you're saying, of one identifying the trend, right? 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:46.399 Seeing all the layoffs and instead of just thinking of like that's really painful for people, of realizing that at some point, right? 00:06:46.399 --> 00:06:54.160 Like you had had a really steady and long run, but also realizing at some point things are gonna shift in that sense too. 00:06:54.160 --> 00:07:00.720 So I commend you for looking into it ahead of time versus when everything hits the wall, if you want to say. 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:06.079 And I think too, something that you did really well is the relationships. 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:15.040 And I think a lot of times when people are newer to commercial real estate or even positions that are 100% sales, right? 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:21.120 I think they are so focused on this is what I have, this is what I need, and check the box. 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:23.279 And it doesn't work that way. 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:30.720 And especially in today's environment, I think the relationships and the depth of them are even more important. 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:37.839 And it's it's a big turnoff when someone comes to you just to get something and you don't even know them. 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:38.240 Right. 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:40.800 It's it's kind of shocking and off-putting, right? 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:53.519 Because in your mind, you kind of file of like, that's not the type of person that I I want to spend time with really investing anything into, because it's pretty clear of what drives them and their initiatives. 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:57.519 But it's definitely a great arena. 00:07:57.519 --> 00:08:12.399 And I love too that you put yourself in those uncomfortable growth positions because I think so many people think you do one thing, and then suddenly you have this new life, where as you pointed out, that it was a series of things. 00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:18.959 You started with the houses, you got bigger, you got into the multifamily, surrounding yourself with people that had the knowledge. 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:25.439 And since you provided value, I think they also felt like you were like, right? 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:27.439 Like in like energy. 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:32.799 And that goes a really long way because then there's a mutual respect, which you really have to have. 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:49.360 And I think I can only imagine you were a great student in that capacity also of listening and providing value and also running with it, which then is how you got your your position at old capital lending. 00:08:49.360 --> 00:08:51.600 And so that's that's terrific. 00:08:51.600 --> 00:09:03.759 And I love that you broke it down because so many people just hear A to Z and they don't understand the number of years and all of the different iterations, the kind of growth levels that you went through. 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:08.639 Speaking of which, did you ever find a time where you're just like, oh my gosh, this is too much? 00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:11.440 Like, I might just like, what was I thinking? 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:14.879 I'm gonna wash my hands of this, or did you not experience that? 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:17.039 Oh, plenty of times for sure. 00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:22.320 And it even comes down to like my first rental property that I bought. 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:28.960 Um, I think it was like nine months after I got that property, one of the units caught on fire. 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:35.360 And I was like, And so it was like a it was engulfed in flames, like it was over. 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:36.320 Right. 00:09:36.799 --> 00:09:37.440 Wow. 00:09:38.000 --> 00:10:23.600 And so um,

so they couldn't find the root cause because the fire was too big and they couldn't like everything was scorched, and uh but unfortunately there was so it was a duplex, and so one unit had caught on fire, and uh luckily nobody was home except they had um a couple, so they had a dog, which I approved for, and then I guess that dog had nine puppies, and so wow, and so well, obviously that was like violating the lease, but um right, um, so the assumption is that maybe one of the dogs got into chewed a wire, they found some wax on the floor, so maybe there was a candle that was knocked over, or something. 00:10:23.600 --> 00:10:31.039 I don't have no idea, but um, luckily the the silver lining there was that insurance covered it. 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:39.679 Um, but it was just like a terrifying, like, okay, cool, I'm a real estate investor now, and then all of a sudden it's like the worst case scenario that people always like. 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:45.919 Oh my gosh, yeah, that would that would definitely set you aback a bit. 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:47.600 Yeah, yeah, for sure. 00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:54.000 And then um, you know, I think there's always a a few setbacks throughout my investing career. 00:10:54.000 --> 00:11:00.000 Um, but I think it's just um uh there was a book I read a long time ago. 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:00.879 I forgot who it was by. 00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:04.080 I think it's called Everything, Everything Is Figure Outtable. 00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:06.639 And so um Marie Folio? 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:07.519 I think so. 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:08.000 I think so. 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:11.279 And she she talks about radio and oh yeah, yeah. 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:16.399 Um so I read that book, and that really that's something I always tell myself. 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:19.759 Like when something happens, it's like, oh, we can figure it out. 00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:21.679 Like there it's it's always figure outable. 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:30.480 And so um, so that's when that fire happened, I freaked out for a day, and then I said, Okay, like we can figure this out. 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:37.440 And so I think going through that helps me just realize that nothing is the end of the world, essentially. 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:44.159 So Right, right, kind of like the good will not always be there, just as the bad will not always be there. 00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:44.960 Correct, yeah. 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:48.559 What would you say are a couple of tools or resources? 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:52.320 So I'd say one was was that book, right? 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:54.240 Everything is figure outable. 00:11:54.240 --> 00:12:05.519 What's maybe another technical or something else that you learned when you went from the, you know, the position of owning the single family residential to the multifamily? 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:09.279 What helped you to step up in that investment grade? 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:13.120 Yeah, and I think it is the the mentorship. 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:18.000 And so, like aligning myself with people who are 50 steps ahead of me. 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:37.120 And so um the um person that I mentioned earlier who I told him I would I would do the same thing to him, his name is Tony, and I met him through a meetup and invested passively with him on a couple deals because I just liked the way that he was very transparent and how he operated. 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:53.600 Um and so if it wasn't for him being so open to sharing the knowledge, then I don't think I would have gotten to where I am now without the the um the mentorship and the guidance that I that I got through him. 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:54.399 So yeah. 00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:56.639 So I think it's gonna take a lot longer, right? 00:12:56.960 --> 00:12:57.679 For sure, yeah. 00:12:57.679 --> 00:13:22.799 And so um, and I had like this like when I first started investing, I did do one of those like in mentorship groups that you give them $40,000 and you know they uh they're like, okay, we're gonna teach you how to do it, but it sometimes it's it's it's also self-driven, but I think the mentorship program that I was a part of wasn't very like well established, and so that was like a learning lesson for me. 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:38.399 And so I think investing with Tony was more so like I'm paying to get education because he's open to sharing, but then I'm also bringing value by investing into his deals and trying to help him on his deals and stuff, so yeah, yeah, definitely reciprocal. 00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:40.080 Yeah, I agree. 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:49.759 Some of those bigger groups, there can be advantages, but then there can also be areas where you just get lost in it, unfortunately, which is uh unfortunate. 00:13:49.759 --> 00:13:54.240 But uh, what would you say are your next steps for investing? 00:13:54.240 --> 00:14:00.320 What uncomfortable positions are you putting yourself in to grow and expand at this stage? 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:01.039 Yeah. 00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:04.480 So um, so I still invest in multifamily. 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:07.360 Uh I'm a general partner on a couple deals. 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:14.320 Um, and then um most of my investments are more on the limited partner side, so passively. 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:22.480 Um so the thing that I'm really focused on now is education uh from a lender perspective. 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:34.399 So, you know, one thing that I really liked and why I was so open to joining old capital was um, you know, we're not necessarily not just a lender, we try to educate as much as we can. 00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:40.240 And I feel like from a lender perspective, we're not we're not trying to raise money from you or anything like that. 00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:48.720 And uh we just want to make sure that people who do get loans are successful so that they can continue to grow their multifamily career. 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:53.440 And so I think the

one thing that I like about Old Capital is that we do a lot of education. 00:14:53.440 --> 00:15:07.440 So uh we do like these field trips in Dallas where you spend a day with us, we do like a multifamily one-on-one classroom style in the morning, and then we put you on a charter bus in the afternoon and we go tour different class properties. 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:10.799 And so um, yeah, so I really like that. 00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:16.559 And I think there's there's this new wave of multifamily investors coming. 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:26.159 And just like me, where I had a mentor or somebody help me get into the space in the capacity that I did, I want to be able to help people do the same. 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:32.480 And so that's that's a new muscle for me for sure, because I'm not much, I've never taught anything. 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:41.039 And so, like helping people and educating people is something new and exciting for me that definitely makes me uncomfortable, but something I'm excited to learn about. 00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:42.799 So that's terrific. 00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:58.399 And don't you think my experience in talking to so many people, both investors, developers, tenants, landlords, you name it in commercial real estate, that a lot of people worked really, really hard. 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:17.120 And it just seems like there's a lot of really great people that when you ask them, they are happy to help, you know, as long as that's the reciprocal kind of um energy that's being put out there and a true and genuine desire, and you know, the actions equate to it too. 00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:18.720 So I think that's really neat. 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:20.320 Yeah, definitely. 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:28.000 So jumping into a slightly different topic, AI, something that we hear about, we're inundated with it time and time again. 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:33.759 How do you see it transforming or working with commercial real estate? 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:35.440 Ooh, that's a good topic. 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:45.519 So um I I moderated an AI panel at a conference at our old capital conference a few months or a couple of months ago. 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:47.039 Um perfect timing. 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:48.480 Yeah, so it's perfect timing. 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:52.320 And I feel like we're still at like the tip of the iceberg of AI. 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:55.200 Like it just came about in the last couple of years. 00:16:55.200 --> 00:17:00.159 So I feel like right now we're not leveraging it to its full capability. 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:06.880 Um, I think people are just querying Chat GBT to you know clean up paragraphs and stuff like that. 00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:15.680 Um but in commercial real estate, the areas that I see it where I use it personally is uh one is underwriting. 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:18.960 So uh there's a platform called Cash Flow Portal. 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:20.720 I don't know if you're familiar with that one. 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:23.839 Um, but they there's two sides to it. 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:32.240 One side is for general partners to help manage uh investor um relations and um investments and stuff like that. 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:39.680 So LPs can log into the platform and um you know sign their documents to commit to to an investment. 00:17:39.680 --> 00:18:01.519 Um and then the other half of it is uh they're doing an AI underwriting tool where instead of you going into a spreadsheet, you're um uploading your rent roll, your trailing 12-month financial statement, and you're operating or the OM into this platform and it parses it out for you. 00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:02.880 And so nice. 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:04.640 Yeah, so it saves a whole bunch of time. 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:18.319 Obviously, there's still uh kinks that they're working through, but it just saves so much time because obviously going through the rent roll and going through the T12 is very time consuming, and translating it over to a spreadsheet takes a lot of time. 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:29.440 So, you know, an hour of underwriting is now maybe 10-15 minutes because I'm not having to go through the uh translation of data over to another document. 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:31.839 So I like which is extremely helpful. 00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:35.200 Yeah, so you can kind of move a little bit quicker with that. 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:43.839 Um, so there's that, and then a lot of the folks that I've talked with, I don't use it personally, but I've heard a lot about Elise AI. 00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:56.079 Um, and it's like kind of a tool for property management um to help you um uh get to from a prospect to maybe a showing quicker. 00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:10.799 So they're using like it's kind of like a chat bot, but I think there's a voice agent to it too, so they can take phone calls on your behalf um and then book you to come and and um uh uh come and view the property or or whatnot. 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:15.599 So uh it kind of bypasses that time it takes to get to a showing. 00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:16.000 Right. 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:26.240 Um but I think the um somebody I talked to a couple weeks ago, he's like, well, with AI, you still need HI, so human intelligence. 00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:29.519 And so there's still some kinks that are working out with that. 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:44.720 Because um, as an example, on Elise, if somebody gets taken from prospect to a tenant in one day, uh from an AI perspective, they're like, Oh, we did our job, but from an HI perspective, you're like, This sounds suspicious. 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:45.839 Like, is this a scam? 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:51.519 So um I think there's a lot of different things that are coming out with that. 00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:55.759 Um, and then I actually talked to a friend uh a couple days ago. 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.759 He's uh an AI engineer, and so he's trying to build out a lot more. 00:19:59.759 -->

00:20:02.319 Tools for the commercial real estate space. 00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:11.119 And so right now his focus is on investment sales, so like the brokers, and trying to figure out how to kind of optimize their work. 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:20.480 And so one example was how do you create an offering memorandum or a marketing package quicker, right? 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:28.960 Instead of you going into like what if you can just input data and pictures and it just makes it beautiful for you. 00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:49.759 Um so there's things like that, and uh he's also I'm working with him to see if they can add some elements for lenders where maybe we can query, like, okay, show me the last uh years of mature maturing loans in Dallas, Texas, and you know, give me more specific data that's usable and I can share with you know clients and stuff like that. 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:54.400 So yeah, so I think it's really interesting where AI is going. 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:59.440 And you know, the fear is always like, Are you are we gonna be smarter or dumber? 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:04.079 Right, right, because are people gonna rely on it too heavily? 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:11.279 And you know, that's where I just I'm a curious person by nature, and so at times I can't help myself. 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:20.319 I'll just plug in different things, you know, to see what triple net leases are or what cap rate this is selling for and that type of thing. 00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:40.319 And some things are right, and some things are so way off where it's kind of like, well, it's kind of reassuring in the sense of you know, we as the brokers have that information and a lot of it's not published, so yeah, you know, some are reported up to the coastars and different things, but there's a lot locally that just isn't. 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:48.640 Um it's it's all kind of personal preference and and the firm as well, but it is interesting. 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:56.319 So shifting years once again, from AI to stress, right? 00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:59.839 It's commercial real estate's a busy arena. 00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:04.079 Obviously, the climate of the world is is up and down. 00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:07.839 What do you do to balance the day out? 00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:14.880 Um, so I would say just get moving, so not being so tied to my desk. 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:17.359 And so I like to, I have two dogs. 00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:20.559 So my dogs always remind me that it's time for a walk. 00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:26.799 And so um, so I definitely get out and try to walk a few times a day. 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:36.559 Um I don't run marathons like you, but you're you're your life of any kind I say is fantastic. 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:41.599 Yeah, so I just try to get moving and uh try to set some boundaries for myself. 00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:46.559 So um I think uh working in tech, I'm so used to working long hours. 00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:52.400 And um and so now I try to set a boundary where it's like, okay, by 5 p.m. 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:59.039 I'm not doing uh work-related things, and I give myself some time to to do other hobbies and stuff like that. 00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:06.480 And so um I try to get outside and do as much of walking and just you know, getting um as much fresh air as possible. 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:14.160 And then I also love music, so I actually I DJ and so I that's right, yes, because I loved your one song. 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:19.119 I was like, oh my gosh, you need to send more of these, it'd be perfect for my my training, yeah. 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:27.200 Yeah, so I like to DJ, and so that's definitely um an outlet for me, like a creative outlet for me to de-stress and relax and stuff. 00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:30.079 So and how did you get into that, Ashley? 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:53.279 Um, I went to like a concert a long time ago, and it was a DJ that was like opening for an artist, and the DJ's job is to get the crowd in the mood and get excited for the artist to come out, and it was so cool to just see how they were able to, I guess, command a crowd, right? 00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:55.279 And bring this energy to the crowd. 00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:56.640 And so I was like, that's so cool. 00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:11.519 And so I just like started looking into it, and I had a friend that was a DJ, and so he like taught me a couple things, and um, so I was into it for a couple of years, like dabbled in it, and then when the pandemic hit, I went deep into like learning how to DJ. 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:14.960 I was on YouTube every day, practicing every day. 00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:20.640 Um, and then you know, eventually after COVID, I started playing at venues and stuff like that. 00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:22.640 So yeah, that is great. 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:27.680 And I need to make sure too that I get that link because then we'll include it in the show notes. 00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:28.720 Yeah, sure. 00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:29.359 Thank you. 00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:30.640 Definitely. 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:39.359 So my final and the hard-hitting question for today is what does living fully mean to you? 00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:40.880 Oh, I love that. 00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:48.400 Um, I think living fully is being as present as possible um in whatever you do. 00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:54.559 And so um I think time is the most valuable thing. 00:24:54.559 --> 00:25:03.279 And so being just really thoughtful and intentional about time is fulfill fulfillment, fulfillment to me. 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:09.119 Um, and so like uh I my mom passed away a few years ago from cancer. 00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:09.920 I'm sorry. 00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:10.400 Yeah. 00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:18.799 And so um that when she first got diagnosed, that was like a wake-up call to me where it's like, hey, time is very limited. 00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:28.319 And so like being intentional about spending your

time with the people that you care about or whatever you you think is important to you is is so important to me. 00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:51.279 And and um, I think there was um a a comment or was it a I think it was a podcast with Jesse Itzler, and he talked about um, you know, uh I my parents live across the United States or on the other side of the United States, and I see them for their birthdays and the holidays, and that's a total of you know, twice a year. 00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:55.279 And so like I don't see them 365 days a year. 00:25:55.279 --> 00:26:04.640 So um, you know, he just made a point that it's like, you know, even though they're they're around for 365 days a year, it doesn't mean that you actually see them. 00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:14.240 And so that was like just a reminder to me that, hey, like the time that you spend is more important than just knowing that they're around for the the next couple of years or whatever it is. 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:15.759 So right. 00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:34.720 And I think I saw that same one because I think he had calculated a number that he would only be able to see his parents essentially, whatever this finite number was, if he visited them twice annually or something, and then he kind of extracted it out to how long they might live, which I agree completely. 00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:42.799 When you see it in that sense, you realize that it is finite and um you know, similar to you for different reasons, though. 00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:45.599 I lost my mom when I was long young. 00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:56.960 And it also just kind of set for me of like there aren't guarantees that you know, some people might live to the right, you know, 80s, 90s, and beyond, and others won't. 00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:09.440 And so you really do have to cherish life and also be intentional about how you spend your time and and who you surround yourself with because there aren't any guarantees, yeah, for sure. 00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:14.079 So yes, so leaving it on a bright note, yes. 00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:18.000 What do you intend for 2026? 00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:20.799 You're a woman of many talents, yeah. 00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:35.839 Um is there something that's whispering to your heart and soul that you are interested about for 26, or are you feeling uh I think there's two things. 00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:40.160 So one is so I'm part of this community. 00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:44.559 Um, it's like um a community of mostly Asians that are in real estate. 00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:59.119 It's called S-A-R-E or SAR, um, and it stands for Subtle Asian Real Estate, and it's a 25,000-member group that was, you know, formed a few years ago, and I'm the co-lead for the women's division of it. 00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:11.680 So one of my personal passions is helping more women, especially, get into real estate um because um I think it's still a man's business for the most part. 00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:18.640 And so um, I really want to just focus on helping more people, more women get into the space. 00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:26.240 Um, and so I have one one of my co-leads, uh, we're working on just kind of building out what what else can we do in 2026? 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:28.079 So I'm super excited for that. 00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:30.799 Um that will be exciting, yeah, yeah. 00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:39.839 So uh, and especially in commercial real estate, I feel like the first conference that I went to in commercial real estate, I was like the only woman, and then I was the only Asian woman. 00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:42.160 And so I was like, where are all the ladies at? 00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:44.559 And so I'm I'm glad to see more. 00:28:44.559 --> 00:29:04.559 I mean, I love that you're in the space, and I love meeting other women that are in the space, and so um, yeah, I'm just excited to see more women get into commercial real estate, especially because it's a great arena, and I think you know, the nice thing that prepared me for it was that ever since I graduated from college, I've uh it's always been me and the guys, yeah. 00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:04.880 Right? 00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:19.119 So I graduated college in 1997, so even though it was a completely different arena, it was operations manufacturing, so it was overseas by toolings, supply chain, planning, all of that. 00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:21.839 So it was me and the guys for 11 years, yeah. 00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:33.680 And then, you know, I tried more soulful things and then ended up in commercial real estate then, and and it's um it is funny how time flies. 00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:41.519 And you I've gotten used to being like the only woman in the room, or very few, but I agree, it does feel like there's more coming. 00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:57.200 And the thing I like about it too is that it's a great arena, and I think it's one of those when you've when you've really dug into a niche and understand the asset that you're on an even playing field in that sense, I feel. 00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:09.200 And I think too, I love that you're helping to educate women in the knowledge because the more you know about something, the better you can do both with your time, your energy, your financial resources, and otherwise. 00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:16.079 And let's let's face it, you know, he who has the keys to the bank is the one that makes the decisions. 00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:20.000 And that's why that's how it is in your life, and that's how it is in mine. 00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:24.240 And I think helping others to see that it is possible. 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:32.480 And it's just a matter of steps and getting up when you fall down and continuing to learn and grow and pay it forward is how the magic happens. 00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:34.000 Yeah, definitely. 00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:35.519 Yeah, perfect. 00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:36.000 All right. 00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.480 Well, Ashley, thank you so much for joining me. 00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:39.759 It was a true joy. 00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:42.079 Where can people connect with you? 00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:44.400 Um, I'm on all socials. 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:48.160 So my Instagram handle is underscore ash flow. 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:50.400 So it's like cash flow without the C. 00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:58.079 And then you can also find me on LinkedIn, so Ashley Cow, um, I think is my LinkedIn URL or whatever it is. 00:30:58.079 --> 00:31:00.400 So perfect. 00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:02.559 And I will link all of that on the show notes. 00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:04.319 So thank you so much for joining me, Ashley. 00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:04.880 I enjoyed it. 00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:05.839 Thanks, Eather.

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