Full Transcript for Alex Crossman

spent the first 15 years of my career in institutional finance. So ⁓ no for for obvious reasons. ⁓ also not unrelated to to ⁓ to not having any particular sort of financial cushion to fall back on. But ⁓ I suppose the the twin exp that those three experiences really ⁓ led me to a number of conclusions when I did finally make the decision to retrain as a teacher ⁓ and ultimately to aspire to be ahead. ⁓ one was that I I I f I felt as though I had some idea of where sort of kids from disadvantaged backgrounds were. coming from. ⁓ it didn't didn't seem like an alien experience, seemed like a very, very familiar experience. ⁓ the second was I I felt that I understood something about how elite universities worked. ⁓ and finally I felt like I knew something about how highly competitive professions worked and that the combination of those three things ⁓ was probably something that might I might be able to add some value to it to our education system or at least to the lives of the students that I encountered. So that's effectively what has brought me to this point. Albeit ⁓ know it's being I suppose more of an odyssey than a journey is how I might characterize it. Lovely. I do want to ask a quick question about partnerships now, and then I'm gonna come back to you as a child. You've you've you you the LA has a a thriving partnership with the Latham Watkins, it's one of the world's most prominent law firms that supports the school's kind of social mobility through philanthropy. What is the relationship ⁓ between LAE and business and future job opportunities? ⁓ I mean it's really good question. So ⁓ I mean I think we are we are very open ⁓ with our students that while we have ⁓ we have a lot of expertise in the building, ⁓ the the given where our students are starting, so g i in much the same ways I've just referred to myself, most of our children will not know. You know, they if they want to be an architect, they will never have met an architect. ⁓ and they don't they don't typically come from households ⁓ where family friends are architects and might they might get a bit of ⁓ a bit of inter an inter internship or a bit of ⁓ work experience over the summer. as a result of those sorts of connections. If they're going to do all of those things, ⁓ they have to be facilitated by the school. And we in turn cannot possibly do those things unless we have close and ⁓ and productive partnerships ⁓ with firms typically in the city, just because that happens to be physically proximate, but more widely ⁓ in those industry sectors to which we know 95, 96% of our students aspire to build careers. Yes, good. I mean th yes. But ⁓ if the system is set up to give students jobs and give them career progression, then if schools can by proxy act as ⁓ conduits or links towards those ⁓ opportunities and at least help children visualize what that opportunity might even just look like, then then that is that is as good as the the the you know, the the history t teaching to get an A level. No, I Absolutely as important as any of the academic work that we do with them. Absolutely. But do you th do you think that's do you think that's explicit enough across the board of state provision? You know, d d d does is is is the system is a system serving students who are told, Go to university, get a degree and then the other side you'll get a job? Do you think we need to change the way we frame that for young people going through Well, I let's just take that frame for a second. ⁓ I mean, we're we're not talking about this as an alternative to university. Now, maybe. I mean, the the the the ⁓ the you know the landscape ⁓ the employability landscape is changing and changing quite rapidly. So I I don't think we want to be so philosophically ⁓ committed to the idea of university education that that we aren't able to advocate for other routes that are right for particular students. In our case, it happens to be the case that the sorts of students who might choose to bypass university, for example, ⁓ to take up a degree apprenticeship route, they are mostly students who are taking up the most competitive degree apprenticeships anywhere in the world. So Gold Goldman Sachs, city law firms, ⁓ you know, ⁓ top fight engineering companies. Those courses are more competitive ⁓ than than any individual university course anywhere in the UK or anywhere else for that matter. So our our opportunity set and our challenges are slightly different. ⁓ there are there are many ⁓ many ⁓ sort of further education colleges and other providers up and down the country who do a great job ⁓ with students who are going on to more traditional apprenticeship partnership pathways, ⁓ who have close nurturing relationships with different types of employers. ⁓ but I suppose for us it's it's a particular challenge around how do we prepare young people ⁓ for the workplace in some s in the majority of cases before they then go to university because ⁓ you know, frankly, un ⁓ universities are are not particularly in that space right now. I I am gonna ask you about your childhood because I think, you know, your your your charges and your staff would like to t to know Alex Rossman, the child. What what were you like as an eleven year old? Were you ha did you have were you precocious? Were you w were you academic? Give give us a sense of you as a child. I think I was probably pretty annoying actually. I mean ⁓ in in retrospect. ⁓ yes, I was. I mean, you know, I I suppose you're you're your typical sort of ⁓ you know, you know, most mostly pretty bookish kid. ⁓ in ⁓ in a sort of in a school in a kind of part of the world where that that wasn't a particularly cool thing to be. ⁓ I I suppose I I I got a slight break in that I was encouraged ⁓ when I went to secondary school, which, you know, it being the the sort of late nineteen eighties was was not a safe place to be. I became involved in combat sports very early on, ⁓ and and did it for far too long. ⁓ have no knees to

speak of as a result. ⁓ but that's that that that was an important outlet, ⁓ it was an important sort of source of of personal confidence, ⁓ and I think was was quite important at it at a sort of formative stage. But yeah, I was I was I think I I was that kid who was sort of reading for pleasure and sort of wanted wanted to read the history books that weren't really mentioned on the syllabus. and and that was that was a I suppose fairly unusual. I'm I'm not trying to blame any of those kids. I mean they weren't they weren't encouraged in that way. Okay, good. So let's let's then get to the to the to the heart of of of this of this interview or this this episode. You you go from that from that council estate in West Midlands and you you go through through through ⁓ an MA at Oxford, a master's ⁓ in economics from the LSE, ⁓ you ⁓ do lots of other things, and then in twenty twenty-one you become head teacher of the LE succeeding Scott Baker. The first decade of LAE's existence, you've sent over thirteen hundred kids to Russell Group Universities. ⁓ and then in twenty twenty-five, off the back of all that success that you probably think went sort of unnoticed, ⁓ the media go bananas, and rightly so, because those results are fantastic. The ⁓ I wanna ask you about the the secret source and the set pieces behind what makes LAE fantastic. But just first ⁓ a a kind of unfair criticism that will be levied against you in selective sixth forms first. I'd love to get your opinion on it. The cr the critic or cynic would say, you know, it's a selective school, it's based on GCC results. Your crop of students are are ready for the academic challenges ahead. ⁓ so first just your view on that criticism. And then more interestingly perhaps some some some inside. Give us a the the set pieces behind the success of the school. Okay. So so look, I mean I think a couple of things on the point about selection. I mean, in number one, ⁓ we' we we're very open and honest about this, right? We we are an academic environment. We're not we're not pretending to be a fully comprehensive environment. On the other hand, fully comprehensive, I realize it's controversial, but but almost doesn't exist post sixteen. Yeah, yeah, the the there really aren't large swathes of A-level providers of any kind anywhere that don't have entry requirements. Our entry requirements aren't really all that different from anybody else's in our part of London. Now that's that that would be quite different if you were to compare it with schools elsewhere in the country, but by our local standards, they're not especially high. ⁓ and then we do something that that almost nobody does, which is the which is that we specifically and proactively prioritize applications by students who've been eligible for free school meals. And that has a profound impact on our enrolled student population. So broad broadly correct numbers, it's it's surprisingly difficult to get hold of this information. ⁓ but post-16 A-level provision, the average school nationally will have a a a free school meal eligible population, which will sort of be in kind of eight to ten percent range, typically obviously varies pretty widely. If you're in the sort of rarefied realms of of raw outcomes that we're generating routinely, that number is is typically below 1% and and we're around 40% in a typical year. And that's on the current measure. That's before we get into whatever universal credit eligibility will do for how we classify free school meal eligibility. So and it's really important to say that is fundamental to the school's identity. If our objective was a hundred percent a star, I I firmly believe we could get to a hundred percent A star in in a year. ⁓ we would just remove that criteria. Nobody is going to do that because that's not why the school exists. Lovely. So that's that's the answer to that one. And then behind the curtain then, set pieces. I know teachers will be listening to you, writing notes, thinking, what on earth are they doing? Can we can we get a bit of that? And you know, I know you give teachers sh slightly shorter terms with built in reading weeks. You obviously have these great partnerships with these corporate companies. What else do you guys do differently that other heads can learn from? Well, I mean you you use the term secret source, Walter, but I I I I I think actually what's what's perverse is it's not at all the secret. ⁓ we we're we're constantly saying what works and what doesn't work. ⁓ and we're not alone in that respect. ⁓ what what's striking is is is how rarely people listen to it. ⁓ now I mean I wanna be very open and honest about this, right? I mean, what we do is is in large part facilitated by the fact that we have significant resource. ⁓ we do attract philanthropic support from some of the organizations you mentioned, some individuals you haven't and and more besides. And and that does allow us a sort of breadth of coverage, a level of support for students that is not widely available in other providers. And and and that's pretty important. I I think it's important to be open about that and to acknowledge the the in some ways more challenging conditions that that other colleagues may be working under ⁓ in different parts of the country. That said, ⁓ having the resource is one thing, knowing what to do with it is a different thing. ⁓ we have consistently throughout the school's evolution, ⁓ we've been pretty on a shame of the academic that includes ⁓ you know, we're we're we are as inclusive as it is possible to be, I believe, ⁓ given our curriculum when it comes to students. ⁓ but we we have no desire to be anything like as inclusive when it comes to the recruitment of teaching staff, for example. ⁓ we set very high bars for academic qualifications. very s you it does we're not particularly focused on, you know, particular specific universities or or or disciplines other than those disciplines that we teach. But we think it

we're really unashamed about the fact that if you're going to teach the subjects that we teach to a very high level, ⁓ you're going to need to have studied them to a very high level and to have achieved in a corresponding manner to many of our students. So that that's a really important part of our recruitment process. ⁓ we we celebrate and champion that. So if you came into our school's ⁓ staff room, bit of a cliche, but you you would find conversations taking place between teachers about semiotics ⁓ or or about you know exogalaxies. You would you would find all kinds of conversations that are ⁓ then they're they're not curated, they're not forced, there's nothing stage managed about it. ⁓ it's just integral to the culture of the school that those conversations will take place. And that people do have a deep and genuine interest in their subjects. And we hear that back from students all the time. ⁓ we also have enormous levels of support available to young people who, in our case, tend to have quite complex lives. They tend to have quite significant levels of need, ⁓ which very often have not been diagnosed during the secondary phase of their education because these are the kids who, you know, worked hard, did well, ⁓ and therefore the fact that they may have, for example, you know, ⁓ parent who's in prison. ⁓ they may have been abandoned by their parents. ⁓ they may have ⁓ a sibling, elder or younger, who is a substance abuser. Those things, all real examples, ⁓ those things w will tend to be picked up for the first time when they enroll, when they join the LAE. ⁓ we're very fortunate in that we're able to support them with on-site and full-time counseling provision. We have dedicated pastoral year leads. ⁓ we make significant time available to our heads of houses in order that they can do much of this work. All of that contributes very directly to the sorts of outcomes that we achieve and and more importantly than the outcomes of the university progression and just the sorts of young people ⁓ that now make up the growing and and very high-achieving LA alumni population. Lovely. I'm gonna come to one of the prescripted questions that I ask everyone, which is around controversial opinions. But before I do, maybe just a kind of pithy view on on on just looking into the crystal ball a bit, perhaps in the context of selective sixth forms. and a Labour government and the focus that they have on the Academy movement more generally, where do you see the next five years in terms of policy change, ⁓ if if any? ⁓ well, look, I mean I I don't I I really I I appreciate your the context of the question. Some some of the some of the some of the narrative, some of the of the the sort of I suppose the the sty stylistically, some of the ⁓ treatment of academies movement in principle ⁓ in the first months of the Labour government probably weren't terribly constructive. ⁓ now that said, I feel as though that has moderated. I feel it hasn't moved. And and frankly,

⁓ there there is no world of possibilities in the next five to ten years in which we roll back on the academy's movement. ⁓ it's it's just far too not it's it's vastly in the majority of s of maintained schooling provision in this country, certainly at the secondary phase, but increasingly at the primary phase. ⁓ i w we're too far down this particular roll road. ⁓ on the other side, I think it's important that that people who work in the multi-academy trusts or single academy trusts acknowledge that that you know democratic accountability, that that's a real concern. ⁓ it is a perfectly reasonable thing for a government to want to ask questions that perhaps haven't been asked in the past about exactly who is running our schools and and what are the mechanisms of accountability that are available to national and local government. All of that seems like perfectly fair game. And just at the sort of wonkish end of the spectrum, we should probably acknowledge that most of this has happened with patently inadequate primary legislation. So ⁓ th there is occasionally bits of sticking b sticking plaster and and sort of, you know, needle and thread that has been used to tie together our schooling system. ⁓ And that's probably an underlying vulnerability that someone should take a look at. So I I I can sort of see both sides of the argument. ⁓ that that said, you're right, it weighs a little heavy ⁓ at times on ⁓ on on notions of aspiration ⁓ in communities that ⁓ that have been underserved. Love it. That's a very, very good answer. Flat batted back to me, but with a bit of zhuzh there to to to get our audience going. ⁓ you're not probably the type of person who wants to share controversial opinions, nor am I asking it for a sort of gotcha moment, but there must be something ⁓ you know, that you've learnt in your career that perhaps wrangles someone. Dare I ask for a comment or two on something controversial? ⁓ no, it's almost everything. ⁓ but ⁓ specifically if if I was put on the p on the spot, if I had to ⁓ I ha b this is obviously Going sound self-serving given what I've just said. But I cannot see any earthly reason ⁓ why it is not a legal requirement that all state-funded schools in this country should prioritize the admission of students who are eligible for free school meals. It's the sort of thing that could be done overnight. It would take a simple change in the school's admissions code. We do this for other types of vulnerability. But we don't do it for socioeconomic vulnerability. ⁓ I I don't think and given the the the yawning outcome, ⁓ the gaps in outcomes between ⁓ different types of students, ⁓ depending on where they are in the country, it it's a it seems like it's an urgent and pressing national need and we have the statutory mechanism to make a real difference very quickly. I I cannot understand why we're not doing it. There we go. That's a great view. Maybe that's when we clip up. Alex, we've heard from you the the the child, we've heard of you the policymaker, the the head teacher, the executive head teacher. ⁓ we've come to the back end of ⁓ this podcast, and now we have ⁓ a quick fire question as part of our school bell round. ⁓ so I'm gonna ask you four questions. We ask every guest these four questions, and then ⁓ we'll perhaps leave with a with a a question into the future and then ⁓ we'll let you go back to your very busy day job. So Alex, ⁓ your favorite book? Okay, so I'm clearly going to cheat. ⁓ I'm I'm gonna choose a series of books. So the series of books I would choose would be Patrick O'Brien's Aubrey Mature in the sort of naval history books. ⁓ and and my my tip for ⁓ readers who've not yet encountered them ⁓ is there there are twenty odd books. ⁓ I've I've read twelve. ⁓ my my tip is is you read at least two back to back each summer. Because somewhere sort of two thirds of the way through the first of those novels, you'll start to feel the the Mediterranean sort of ebbing and flowing beneath your feet. I think they're they're incredible historical escapism. Very, very good. ⁓ you didn't say Greater Expectations, which is a book you wrote, and I highly recommend anyone who works in education to to to to buy that. ⁓ it would be odd if you had said that, wouldn't it? But there we It would be odd. One thing ⁓ you think all schools should be doing? ⁓ well it's I mean it's i it's a it's it's the obvious most obvious possible answer. But but all schools need to be engaging very seriously with AI and making very considered decisions about ⁓ where they are and are not going to use it, ⁓ in order that we can support ⁓ the next generation in order to have intentional nurturing childhoods and just get involved in in the real world, ⁓ which Sadly is is not what will happen ⁓ unless ⁓ we take a fairly proactive approach. Very good. ⁓ what would you be doing if you weren't in education? ⁓ I mean if I were not in education at all, ⁓ but had still escaped ⁓ if I'd still escaped finance when I did, ⁓ by now I would probably I mean I could imagine myself running an animal shelter. ⁓ maybe if I was running an animal shelter and ⁓ and sort of maybe playing in a in a sort of mediocre cover band in dive bars. I mean, I think I could I I could I could feel that life would be well spent, ⁓ if I was doing those things. That's happiness right there for me too. Not sure about my music. ⁓ and finally, what would you tell that boy on the West Midlands Council Estate, ⁓ with all the success you've had now? ⁓ well I suppose I I I I would I would first of all say be skeptical of ⁓ advice ⁓ dispensed to you by middle aged sort of ⁓ crusties ⁓ you know ra racked by their own ⁓ their own regrets. But no, leaving that to one side. I honestly and again it's a terrible cliché. I I would say savor every day. savor every day. I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world who feels that the you know, I'm I'm very fortunate. I have very few regrets. The regrets that I do have are all ⁓ about time that I did not make the most of time that I I sort of allowed to slip away when, you know, the the The morning when you when you had the line, when you should have gone for a run, ⁓ you know, the the essay you should have written, the book you should have written, ⁓ the the any the many, many things that that sort of somehow pass you by for for reasons that you can't quite remember. ⁓ I I would say savor every day. Very good. Well, it comes now to the end of the podcast, and ⁓ f for those who don't know the story of LA, do look it up. ⁓ 64 offers from Oxbridge and Cambridge this year, Oxford and Cambridge this year. That's ⁓ that's more than forty-eight from St. Paul's, fifty one from Eaton, fifty four from Brampton Manor, the other big state school in the news for those incredible results. ⁓ Alex, thank you for your transparency, humor, ⁓ goodwill. And ⁓ I said in the introduction that it's a blueprint for ⁓ further ⁓ social mobility and further ⁓ ways around enabling creator outcomes. So we'll follow your work closely. I hope others do. And thank you very much for coming on the podcast. Thank you, Alter. Thanks so much for the kind questioning and I really appreciate it. And keep up the good work. I mean it's a it's a it's a really great podcast series.