TRANSCRIPT 🔗
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[SPEAKER_01]: We're excited to announce that Harvey's highly compelling memoir, without prejudice, my life as a gay judge has been released and is now available on Amazon and wherever you buy books.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and what's even more exciting.
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[SPEAKER_01]: A Hollywood feature film starring David Arquette, Rob Mays, David Mazuz, Joe Lando, Rachelle Fave, and directed by the superb Shane Stanley, chronicling Harvey's riveting story of going from social outcast to Canada's first openly gay judge, and then reinventing himself as a renowned celebrity interviewer, will be released in the fall of 2026.
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[SPEAKER_01]: More to come as we get closer to the movie's release date.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Hello everyone, I'm Harvey Brownstone, and today's special guest is an immensely popular and beloved multi-award winning actor, dancer and singer who first became a superstar because of his performances in the original Broadway Productions of Jesus Christ's Superstar for which he received a Tony Award nomination and a theater world award.
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[SPEAKER_02]: and Pippin for which he won a toning award and a drama desk award for best actor in a musical.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's also appeared on Broadway and hair, grind, jealous last jam, fussy, I'm not wrap up poor and wicked in which he played the Wizard of Oz.
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[SPEAKER_02]: On the big screen, you've seen him in great movies like Sweet Charity.
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[SPEAKER_02]: all that jazz, why do fools fall in love, idle wild?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Tapioca, time out of mind, and of course, funny lady for which he received a Golden Global Award nomination.
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[SPEAKER_02]: On television, he's been nominated for three Emmy Awards.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The first was for his brilliant portrayal of Chicken George in the groundbreaking mini-series Roots, for which he also won a television critics circle award
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[SPEAKER_02]: His second Emmy nomination was for his wonderful medley from Jesus Christ Superstar in the Bell Telephone Jubilee and he received a third Emmy nomination for his portrayal of Jean Randall in intruders.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's also appeared in many classic TV shows including Webster,
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[SPEAKER_02]: Star Trek the next generation, the fresh prince of Bel-Air, the nanny touched by an angel, Oz, how I met your mother, NCIS, B.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Positive, and Grey's Anatomy for which he won a Prism Award for Best Performance in a Drama Series.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And he got a second golden global award nomination for his terrific performance as Roscohaines in Ellis Island.
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[SPEAKER_02]: and besides his iconic performance in roots, he also co-starred in many other great TV movies and many series, including Mary's Incredible Dream, Louis Armstrong, Chicago Style, the Jesse Owen story, A.D., the kid who loved Christmas, accidental friendship, and pippin' his life and times for which he was nominated for a cable-lays award.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Most recently, he got rave reviews for his performance as isham worthy in the gripping and poignant miniseries The Grey House, and when he's not performing, our guest is highly devoted to public service.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's an active member of Americans for the arts, and he has served on the boards of ballet Florida, the American Red Cross, and the American Diabetes Association.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He founded an organization called Celebrities for a Drug Free America and he has worked tirelessly to emphasize the important potential of the arts to transform lives, bring light and positivity into the world.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's received three NAACP image awards at least five honorary doctorate degrees and numerous lifetime achievement awards, including the Eleanor Roosevelt Humanitarian Award, and last, but certainly not least, our guest has been inducted into the American Theatre Hall of Fame, the Dance Hall of Fame, and the Casino Legends Hall of Fame.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I am delighted and deeply honored
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[SPEAKER_02]: Ben thank you so much for being here.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I listen to you talking about me and my journey.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I go, wow, I remember that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot to remember, isn't it?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I remember those, yes, it's a lot.
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[SPEAKER_00]: God, I didn't know that all that had happened.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But thank you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, my audiences, for allowing me into your living rooms,
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[SPEAKER_02]: and we all love you and I want to dive right in and ask you about some of the major highlights of your career from my perspective as a fan.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You were directed by the legendary Bob Fossie in Pippin, Sweet Charity and all that jazz and then you directed the 1986 revival and National Tour of Pippin.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What would you say was the most important lesson you learned from working with Bob Fossie?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Persistence, meaning that in order to make it perfect, Bob pushed, and a lot of people say, oh, he's so hard on this, that's no, he wanted the perfection in you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The goal in you to come forward, and in order to do that, you have to keep polishing, keep polishing, and keep polishing until the gold appears.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I love about Bob.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I love him to this day.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I learned a lot from Bob, you know what a good friend is all about.
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[SPEAKER_02]: In 1975 Ben, you performed a wonderful number called Clap Hands here comes Charlie.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Ony Lady, starring Barbara Streisand, and you were in the so long honey lamb number, but I read that a lot of your work was cut out of the movie.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Is that true?
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[SPEAKER_00]: It was, it was, it was, I don't know why, I don't know got into why, but I was glad to be a part
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[SPEAKER_00]: Bob is journey in telling the story of Bert Williams, of black performers, of that period what they had to do in order to be on the stage.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So there was one time in America when a black performer wasn't allowed on the stage.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I make a story out of his true that these white performers went down south and saw
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[SPEAKER_00]: And they were entertaining themselves on a Sunday.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And they said, wow, I got a great idea.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's black up and do them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So they started to call the minstrel shows.
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[SPEAKER_00]: When we became free and we saw these shows, we said, we could do us better than they're doing us.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And we tried to get on the American stage.
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[SPEAKER_00]: hard and feathered and lynched in certain cases.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They said the only way you're going to be in our stage is we are blackface and we took it but we also were example and made an art form that Zickfield Folly had his lead actor in his shows.
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[SPEAKER_02]: and you immortalized him in funny ladies' soul, so smile and I, it must have been very upsetting to have part of your number so long, honey lamb cut out, it makes me so angry because we want more.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, that's what they wanted, so that's what they covered at least was there.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The excess is there, and people could now go back and research Berg Williams and find out the truth.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So we got a glimpse of him.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I wanna ask you about your greatest inspiration and mentor, Sammy Davis Jr. You worked with him in sweet charity.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You were his understudy for golden boy.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You appeared on TV with him many times.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You made a TV movie with him, the kid who loved Christmas.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And you've done one man shows in tribute to Sammy at the Kennedy Center and elsewhere.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Can you talk a little bit, Ben, about your friendship with him?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I first met Sammy on the set of Sweet Charity, and I was angry because I had done that he drew back the role he took over on a tour with Cheater Rivera.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So when I got the telegram from Bob, I thought he was asking me to come to Los Angeles to be, you know, the character.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I was sitting in a car while Sammy would do his thing and everybody was, oh, Sam, oh, Sam, he kept noticing me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So if finally one day one of his guys came over and said, Mr. Davis was having dinner with you in a little Santa Monica.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Be there tonight at seven o'clock, I was there at five o'clock.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I went through the door and they said, excuse me, wait a minute, I said, I'm here for Mr. Davis.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What's your name, Benjamin's ring?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I came in at that set, Lucille Ball, Desi Arnès, Dean Martin.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you name them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They're all around the room and Johnny Carson, all these people.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sitting this long table waiting for, waiting for Sammy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Several club came, no Sammy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Eight of club came, no Sammy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Not a club came, no Sammy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So these people look at me like, what does that kid doing over there?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And the thing that stray rose up and up and seared at cigarette butts, so I said, we're not a clock, I said, well, let me go.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He's not coming.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I started to walk out Sammy walks in with 50 of his closest friends.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And he looks at me and goes, oh, good, you came.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Sit down.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I sat down.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And his manager at the time was Agent was sitting beside me this white.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And Sam said, you know, I'm doing a show called Golden Boy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And times have changed, you know, we've got the black Panthers, we've got the voice of black people making a noise now.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We need to put this in the show.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I need somebody who's angry, who understands the depth of what the black people are going through and his agent hit me in the ribs and said, ask for the
wrong.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I said, what?
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[SPEAKER_00]: He said, ask him for the wrong.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I said, Mr. David said, you got it and then we were off to London.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And did you ever get to go on when you were his understudy?
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[SPEAKER_00]: What happened was Hilly Alcons who's producer.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Sammy Hamid is an officer to 9,000 Sunset Boulevard.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And Hilly Alcons walks and he said, this has been her name.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to be my understudy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Hilly said, we already got you understudy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: On his satin.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Spring Billy Downey Road.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, he said, well, uh, have him understood me and Lonnie said, so I ended up understanding Sammy and Lonnie said, we got to Chicago and I was right around the time that Martin Luther King was assassinated and never forget I was in the room in his room, the stala, which is Burton, Peter Lawford, all these celebrities are standing around and Sammy's
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[SPEAKER_00]: Let's use me down.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He's all it's called.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's a show-grad, his bodyguard walks in, and he's in tears.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Sam looks at him.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So what?
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[SPEAKER_00]: It was almost going on, Joe.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He said, they killed him.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He said, they killed Lou.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They killed King.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And the group, they went back and said,
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[SPEAKER_00]: He would, and I got angry.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I remember getting so angry.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I want to punch every white face, I saw it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And Samuel on TV and he said, keep the peace.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's what King would have wanted.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Which is a cargo.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Samuel, to every gang in Chicago, to tell them the cute the peace.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And they were not calling him a son of God.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They were
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[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't want to have nothing to do with him.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But he said, feel what you want to feel about me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But you keep came as a legacy alive.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And he got exhausted.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So we were in the middle of the show.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I
had had no rehearsals.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I would just watch the show.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, he just came back and said, you're on.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I would, what?
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[SPEAKER_00]: He said, you're on.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Lotting satin, which is old little character.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like 22, 23,
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[SPEAKER_00]: I said, I can't do it all the character, I know what I'll do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I got, I went to the wardrobe, I had a costume, and what to say, I mean, who's wearing shades at the time, and I said, let me have your shades, you want, okay, and the show starts.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Lonnie Satton, and I'm playing the Billy Daniel role.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm seeing this as life is where the living is, this is life.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just young kid.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I decided to play him as the son of Billy Daniel.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Spoiled kid from Harlem, having everything he wanted is, but if the biggest tips.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And there's one scene where Joe is about to go into the ring.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And my character, Susan, everyone from the room,
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[SPEAKER_00]: I said, I reached in the touch of this shoulder.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He said, man, I'm not in there.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I said, I take off the glasses for the first time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I look at him and say, don't you ever let go?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Talk to me like that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You'd be good tonight.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I walk out.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Sammy was in the wings.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Standing ovation.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I want to take you back to November 13, 1989 at the Shrine Auditorium in L.A. when you performed for Sammy at his 60th anniversary celebration TV special, we could all see that Sammy really was not well.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What was going through your mind, Ben, when you were there with him that night?
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[SPEAKER_00]: You wouldn't have to embrace more of Sammy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But I knew it was near the end.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so we just prayed for him and just held him up and celebrated his life.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Allowing to see the souls that he touched and the influence he had on a generation of performers who follows in his footsteps till this day.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And do you also get that you've done the same thing for another generation of performers?
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[SPEAKER_02]:
Does that ever sink in your head?
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, people come to me and they tell me that, and I'm flattered, I've deeply moved, but I'm humbled at the same time that they feel that way.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I just want them to continue to legacy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Continue, what we started.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's impossible.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The dead dreams come true as we, the people of the theater and of society must support them and give them the pathways to make their lives great and worthwhile.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You've certainly done your share in advancing that concert.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I want to ask you, in 1976, you co-starred with Mary Tyler Moore in a wonderful TV movie called Mary's Incredible Dream.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What was she like to work with?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I love Mary.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I love her smell.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Her allergies were always Mary was just so beautiful and such an artist.
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[SPEAKER_00]: She was like, you know, like Foxy, she was a perfectionist.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Highly Rogers choreographed it and directed it and it was just wonderful work with our playing the characters I played.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The band hadn't changed for it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It was a wonderful little musical.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I wish you to have gotten more acclaimed than it did, but it was before it's time.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I wanted to mention it in this interview because so many people haven't seen it, and they need to see it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, see it, see it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then 1976 was a really a big year for you because you portrayed the one and only Louis Armstrong in the TV movie, Louis Armstrong Chicago style.
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[SPEAKER_02]: How did you prepare it for that role?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, it's interesting.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's all roles I do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because I've got to get my ego out of the way.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It allows that to come through me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What's I've learned with bread to mind said, what you've read the manual through the way and trust your instincts.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I read the manual.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I went with the new parade and asked for Louise presence to be with me as I journey through it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, and I had read buttons there.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It was quite iconic.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I learned a lot.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I talk about it a lot.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It was magnificent.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you remember this, but I remember seeing you on TV with Bing Crosby singing now, you has jazz, which was a tribute to Louis Armstrong.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Do you remember that?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she has jazz, jazz, jazz, jazz, jazz.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's so true.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Did you like singing with Bing Crosby?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, kidding, I'm singing with a legend.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You're kidding me, yes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He cracked up, but I tried to riff.
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[SPEAKER_02]: look at the memories you have, look at the people you've worked with, and not only that, besides playing Satchmo, you've portrayed some other very important real people in history.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'll give you some examples.
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[SPEAKER_02]: In the Jesse Owen's story, you played the Olympic Long Jump for Herb Douglas.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
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[SPEAKER_02]: In why do fools fall in love?
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[SPEAKER_02]: You played Richard Barrett, the record producer who discovered Frankie Lyman.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And in the good fight, you played the abolition of statesman Frederick
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[SPEAKER_02]: What's your process when you have to play a real person?
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I said, you know, I don't play the character I try to get myself out of the way and allow, once you've read the manual, once you've done the research, once you've invested in that particular life, now get out of the way and let that trust, that will guide you through the characterization that you're doing.
19:48.614 --> 19:49.794
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the way I work.
19:50.275 --> 19:51.535
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't see it to everybody.
19:51.975 --> 19:55.516
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone has their different technique of how they approach a character.
19:55.977 --> 19:57.557
[SPEAKER_00]: This is how I approach characters.
19:58.097 --> 20:02.859
[SPEAKER_00]: Because to me, that character is the sacred.
20:04.219 --> 20:07.320
[SPEAKER_00]: The sacred, especially walk this earth that I want.
20:08.761 --> 20:15.663
[SPEAKER_02]: I get the feeling that you feel in obligation a responsibility to honor their legacy in your portrayal.
20:18.615 --> 20:25.319
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I do, and I pray I've done it well at their legacy will live on through my words.
20:26.460 --> 20:38.927
[SPEAKER_02]: So beautifully said, you know, in the 70s, Ben, you appeared on every TV variety show, Carol Burnett, Donnie and Marie, the Bob Hope Special, John David, sin, Dinah Shore, so many others.
20:39.328 --> 20:42.229
[SPEAKER_00]:
Do you do the variety days of variety days?
20:42.249 --> 20:43.630
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's what I want to ask you.
20:48.355 --> 20:56.421
[SPEAKER_00]: It was such fun, it was such fun, and you work with various people that you admire, and it was just great.
20:57.402 --> 21:04.487
[SPEAKER_02]: But then in the summer of 1975, you had your own terrific variety show called Benberine Kamenat, yeah?
21:04.527 --> 21:08.450
[SPEAKER_02]: You had Lola Falana on the show, who was so wonderful?
21:08.771 --> 21:13.174
[SPEAKER_00]: It's again Lola, I would have a Lola lot!
21:14.164 --> 21:17.226
[SPEAKER_02]: But you must have been so disappointed when the show went off the air.
21:17.286 --> 21:18.527
[SPEAKER_02]: What happened?
21:18.547 --> 21:20.128
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, that's the networks.
21:20.348 --> 21:22.570
[SPEAKER_00]: Glad to snake the pits came in for the next four.
21:23.210 --> 21:24.711
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I said it was this four.
21:24.771 --> 21:26.072
[SPEAKER_00]: So, boom, I was good with that.
21:26.592 --> 21:27.153
[SPEAKER_00]: I had it.
21:28.374 --> 21:30.915
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can't be sitting back on water, didn't know it would.
21:31.436 --> 21:32.656
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh man, was it me?
21:32.736 --> 21:33.217
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it that?
21:33.277 --> 21:33.537
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
21:33.877 --> 21:35.578
[SPEAKER_00]: That was just set up for the summer.
21:36.359 --> 21:40.702
[SPEAKER_00]: I had my four plants like the pits have therefore, but I got to the four.
21:41.637 --> 21:47.381
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you remember in those summers when we used to have such entertainment, such great variety?
21:47.742 --> 21:49.383
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, where is it now?
21:50.223 --> 21:54.126
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I know you were on the Johnny Carson Show at least 15 times.
21:54.186 --> 21:55.788
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you enjoy going on his show?
21:55.808 --> 21:58.790
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, Johnny is a lot of fun.
22:00.081 --> 22:12.006
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, the reason I asked you about Johnny Carson is because I know you were really badly treated in 1981 by the TV network when they slashed your performance at the President Reagan inauguration.
22:12.086 --> 22:18.908
[SPEAKER_02]: And I believe you wanted to go on the Johnny Carson show to explain what happened and he didn't give you that chance, right?
22:19.028 --> 22:20.149
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly exactly.
22:20.189 --> 22:21.129
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, he's the thing.
22:21.849 --> 22:24.130
[SPEAKER_00]: I did a piece that was very controversial.
22:24.971 --> 22:26.011
[SPEAKER_00]: It was Bert Williams.
22:26.783 --> 22:45.668
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you did it in blackface and blackface and I told the producers if you allow me to do this it must be done completely You must see I think we'd seen roots you're ready for these black stores You know everybody's ready for the roots is such a hit.
22:46.068 --> 22:53.510
[SPEAKER_00]: I said okay, they're ready for this and let me tell the story of this black man Unbeknownst to me there are those who are saying
22:54.761 --> 22:58.905
[SPEAKER_00]: I heard we ain't gotten to history, don't be showing that it's about us.
23:00.046 --> 23:05.931
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I was so hurt and you should call me to find a brain to squeeze the race.
23:07.433 --> 23:09.795
[SPEAKER_00]: That was not my intention to disgrace my race.
23:10.255 --> 23:19.243
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm absolutely not, but it caused a scandal because the performance was stupidly cut by the network.
23:19.263 --> 23:20.945
[SPEAKER_00]: It was cut by the networks.
23:21.418 --> 23:24.720
[SPEAKER_02]: So the public misunderstood the message you were trying to convey.
23:25.621 --> 23:26.001
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
23:26.621 --> 23:27.081
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
23:28.622 --> 23:34.206
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if they had seen the entire, I wonder how many would have understood.
23:35.206 --> 23:38.728
[SPEAKER_00]: The recalls that I got like we ain't got no history.
23:38.788 --> 23:39.789
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't you be doing that.
23:40.069 --> 23:41.430
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't you be telling that story?
23:42.448 --> 23:52.919
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what our standing, our entertainers are standing on the backs of those who had to endure that prejudice on the American stage.
23:54.101 --> 23:57.244
[SPEAKER_02]: Why wouldn't Johnny Carson let you go on his show and explain it?
23:57.264 --> 23:58.105
[SPEAKER_02]: I never got to.
23:58.125 --> 23:58.946
[SPEAKER_02]: I never stepped down.
23:58.966 --> 24:00.247
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of those stepped down.
24:01.128 --> 24:02.710
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why myself.
24:03.488 --> 24:09.453
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think that networks made up a really bad judgment error, and didn't make a judgment error.
24:09.973 --> 24:14.717
[SPEAKER_00]: The only people who stood beside you was everybody turned to guess, we would say, I'm your name is Julia.
24:15.577 --> 24:22.102
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'll be telling that stuff about my people, I don't know, I'm black already, you don't have to be done, I don't know.
24:23.543 --> 24:27.747
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let me tell you, your fans never, ever, ever misunderstood.
24:32.407 --> 24:36.549
[SPEAKER_00]: The only one who stood beside me was a guy named Dick Gregory in Toni Martin, I believe.
24:37.710 --> 24:43.653
[SPEAKER_00]: He had this show where he showed the entire piece, me explaining it.
24:44.634 --> 24:50.157
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, Dick Gregory came to me and Dick said, Then, you got to apologize.
24:51.097 --> 24:52.358
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, Dick, I can't.
24:53.198 --> 24:56.280
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like, has to deduce to apologize for the Holocaust.
24:57.440 --> 24:58.261
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't do it.
24:58.661 --> 25:00.122
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, OK, that's going to road.
25:03.416 --> 25:11.121
[SPEAKER_00]: If you ever do that again, we'll be watching your show from behind a rifle, and we'll kill you if you
ever do that again.
25:12.042 --> 25:12.842
[SPEAKER_00]: I did it anyway.
25:14.083 --> 25:17.105
[SPEAKER_02]: Why don't you amount a traumatic thing to happen to you?
25:17.145 --> 25:28.612
[SPEAKER_00]: What's on the backs of which I'm standing, and every entertainer in this business, the wrappers today, don't realize on the backs of which we endured.
25:30.002 --> 25:34.084
[SPEAKER_00]: Those people endured that, so I could be here talking to you.
25:35.425 --> 25:36.486
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, of course.
25:36.726 --> 25:42.049
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, in the year 2000, the A&E channel did an episode of biography all about you.
25:42.109 --> 25:44.310
[SPEAKER_02]: They called it Ben Verine the hard way.
25:44.450 --> 25:45.450
[SPEAKER_02]: What did you think of that?
25:46.531 --> 25:47.412
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you like that?
25:47.432 --> 25:48.592
[SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
25:48.912 --> 25:51.774
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, nice.
25:53.615 --> 25:54.275
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, God.
25:54.796 --> 25:57.337
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, people are going to do their interpretation of my life.
26:00.002 --> 26:06.964
[SPEAKER_00]: Would YouTube today, you know, it's fair game, but at least they spilled my name right.
26:07.824 --> 26:13.765
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but I'm glad to hear you say on our show that that was not an accurate portrayal of your life.
26:14.205 --> 26:16.026
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
26:16.526 --> 26:18.026
[SPEAKER_00]: But at least they spilled my name right.
26:18.386 --> 26:20.087
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's the least they could do.
26:20.467 --> 26:26.328
[SPEAKER_02]: If you years ago, 2008, you were a judge on a dance competition TV show called
26:30.000 --> 26:37.965
[SPEAKER_00]: I did enjoy, but I thought the show was badly produced, and I felt that it didn't get this.
26:38.025 --> 26:41.888
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I thought about us as your mom, but don't dance at a little more one guy coming out.
26:42.468 --> 26:47.311
[SPEAKER_00]: It is daughter with home, and she was in 90s, and they did a dance that I would own my god.
26:47.331 --> 26:48.252
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, it's photographing!
26:48.292 --> 26:58.478
[SPEAKER_00]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
26:59.413 --> 27:00.794
[SPEAKER_00]: What am I doing here?
27:05.177 --> 27:14.064
[SPEAKER_00]: It was cute, it was a nice work with some great people there, you know, too, but what would you like to be a judge on a TV show like America's Got Talent?
27:14.464 --> 27:17.226
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I'd love to see you do that.
27:17.707 --> 27:18.848
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to do that.
27:19.468 --> 27:24.452
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love all those wonderful talents out there, American Idol, yeah, I'd love to be a judge.
27:25.542 --> 27:36.709
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I just have to mention that in 2016, you played Dr. Scott and a TV movie remake of the Rocky Horror Pictures show called Let's Do The Time War Again.
27:37.049 --> 27:38.690
[SPEAKER_00]: It's time war began.
27:38.710 --> 27:43.833
[SPEAKER_02]: The starring Laverne Cox, as Frank and Carter, did you have fun doing that show?
27:43.873 --> 27:44.814
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I had fun.
27:45.214 --> 27:46.475
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I tell you what I take?
27:46.935 --> 27:47.856
[SPEAKER_00]: That was great.
27:48.456 --> 27:49.577
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a lot of fun.
27:51.558 --> 27:53.079
[SPEAKER_00]: I never seen Rocky Horror Show.
27:55.268 --> 27:56.890
[SPEAKER_00]: And I get this call from Kim.
27:57.090 --> 28:00.092
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, yeah, Kim, I work with you anytime.
28:00.112 --> 28:05.797
[SPEAKER_00]: I never find out what he has to do, and I go, okay.
28:06.898 --> 28:18.028
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hope I did justice to all the wonderful performers before me who did, you know, Dr. Scott and, you know, no characters of telling that wonderful story to Rocky Arsha,
28:18.532 --> 28:26.416
[SPEAKER_00]: out of people, you know, as you heard that rumors that people throw things at the stage, they had things you had to do, and now it's... Wow.
28:26.836 --> 28:27.717
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's a cult.
28:27.997 --> 28:29.097
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a metal movie.
28:29.718 --> 28:31.339
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I'm Broadway now.
28:31.779 --> 28:41.144
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that you should know that the LGBTQ community really appreciated that you supported Le Verne Cox, the way you did, Ben.
28:41.364 --> 28:43.785
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, she's a wonderful artist.
28:45.712 --> 28:48.173
[SPEAKER_02]: My God, it meant a lot to us.
28:48.594 --> 29:07.302
[SPEAKER_02]: Now you were interviewed in the recent documentary about Liza, and you spoke in a very heartfelt and poignant way about Liza Manelli, but your relationship back in the 70s was basically kept a secret from the point of view.
29:15.324 --> 29:17.766
[SPEAKER_00]: Your relationship with me said was a surprise.
29:18.026 --> 29:18.286
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
29:18.987 --> 29:20.027
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no.
29:20.588 --> 29:23.730
[SPEAKER_00]: When I first met Liza, who said Jesus Christ was sorry.
29:24.410 --> 29:27.533
[SPEAKER_00]: My stage about it comes to me though, and he says, you have a guess.
29:28.273 --> 29:29.294
[SPEAKER_00]: I went, oh, okay.
29:29.994 --> 29:33.317
[SPEAKER_00]: And there is little girl's lives who would have a big eyes that have a scene.
29:33.337 --> 29:36.379
[SPEAKER_00]: She says, hi, I'm Liza.
29:37.039 --> 29:38.540
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, hi, I'm Ben.
29:39.341 --> 29:42.383
[SPEAKER_00]: And then this other guy comes in and says, I'm Desiour and Desiour and Desiour and Desiour and Desiour,
29:42.975 -->
29:45.116
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, oh, I don't deserve your last junior.
29:45.416 --> 29:46.317
[SPEAKER_00]: I know he's before.
29:46.337 --> 29:48.058
[SPEAKER_00]: I had no idea.
29:49.019 --> 29:51.340
[SPEAKER_00]: Matter of fact, when they came to do a doctor, they're doing a set.
29:51.940 --> 29:54.061
[SPEAKER_00]: You have a number of, let's give it up.
29:54.141 --> 29:56.523
[SPEAKER_00]: You have a number of, I said, give it to them.
29:56.543 --> 30:03.667
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember when I read it, it's about the tone of music by first toldy, and looked at the letter I went, who's toldy?
30:04.788 --> 30:09.190
[SPEAKER_00]: I had no idea what the tone of your world was, so lies it comes in.
30:09.210 --> 30:10.431
[SPEAKER_00]: I look at her.
30:16.287 --> 30:25.469
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, okay, all right, all right, all right, and so she went away and she came to like four five shows with her assistant.
30:26.289 --> 30:44.673
[SPEAKER_00]: Then she finally came back saying, said, we have dinner, I said, yeah, okay, we went to dinner, the pair and he's restaurant and different, they have things just cumulative, you know, and next I know I was going to cover what are those rag magazines,
30:45.338 --> 30:53.920
[SPEAKER_00]: with a long black coat and lies in the corner, Dizzy's in the corner says, who is this black man taking lies if I'm dizzy or a nest?
30:54.400 --> 30:57.621
[SPEAKER_00]: I call that said, honey, I don't need this.
30:58.681 --> 30:59.861
[SPEAKER_00]: I have my own wings.
31:00.501 --> 31:01.901
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll fly on my own wings.
31:02.402 --> 31:05.422
[SPEAKER_00]: Please, not mix me up in this mess.
31:07.042 --> 31:09.223
[SPEAKER_00]: But we've been good friends, every since.
31:10.330 --> 31:13.973
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's a very sexy photo of the two of you that I really love.
31:13.993 --> 31:15.293
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you remember that photo?
31:15.494 --> 31:16.254
[SPEAKER_02]: So yes, I do.
31:17.475 --> 31:18.816
[SPEAKER_00]: I get a call from Liza.
31:20.197 --> 31:26.181
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, honey, I'm taking a photo shoot with the Civil Guvus Guvulo.
31:26.781 --> 31:27.362
[SPEAKER_00]: That's okay.
31:27.742 --> 31:29.243
[SPEAKER_00]: So would you come down to the studios?
31:29.263 --> 31:29.763
[SPEAKER_00]: That's sure.
31:30.224 --> 31:31.645
[SPEAKER_00]: It's that I came down to the studio.
31:32.025 --> 31:33.666
[SPEAKER_00]: She's taking all these beautiful pictures.
31:34.326 --> 31:36.048
[SPEAKER_00]: And this she says, let's take a picture together.
31:36.808 --> 31:37.208
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it?
31:37.308 --> 31:37.769
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
31:38.209 --> 31:38.469
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
31:39.990 --> 31:52.979
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm not sure it's okay, but because I've done air, I had a probability I did air, so I do some breaks with her, she says, it's just for me, just for me, it's okay.
31:54.380 --> 32:03.786
[SPEAKER_00]: So I go back to my studio one day, I'm at Pippin, and there's a news week waiting for me on my table.
32:11.105 --> 32:15.246
[SPEAKER_00]: And I go to the magazine and there's that photo which is only for her.
32:16.486 --> 32:19.687
[SPEAKER_00]: I went, oh my god.
32:21.487 --> 32:22.847
[SPEAKER_02]: A national magazine.
32:23.787 --> 32:25.588
[SPEAKER_00]: It was the collector's edition.
32:27.548 --> 32:28.528
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I collected it.
32:29.048 --> 32:30.969
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, everybody did.
32:32.009 --> 32:33.269
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's a beautiful picture.
32:33.309 --> 32:33.789
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
32:33.849 --> 32:34.829
[SPEAKER_00]: Beautiful pictures.
32:34.909 --> 32:35.349
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
32:35.389 --> 32:38.350
[SPEAKER_00]: But you're protection, you know, and I love lies.
32:39.235 --> 32:41.986
[SPEAKER_00]: You know there's nothing wrong with that, I still love her.
32:42.744 --> 32:43.945
[SPEAKER_02]: when she loves you too.
32:44.265 --> 32:51.091
[SPEAKER_02]: You know Ben, I listened to you talk and I think of the incredibly dramatic, the challenging life you've had.
32:51.491 --> 32:53.493
[SPEAKER_02]: You've been blessed with great triumphs.
32:53.673 --> 32:56.455
[SPEAKER_02]: You've suffered incredibly tragic losses.
32:57.276 --> 33:00.979
[SPEAKER_02]: You lost your beautiful 16-year-old daughter in 1987.
33:01.419 --> 33:03.461
[SPEAKER_02]: You've had substance abuse issues.
33:03.561 --> 33:06.643
[SPEAKER_02]: You've had some very serious health issues in recent years.
33:07.264 --> 33:08.205
[SPEAKER_02]: How are you doing
33:11.760 --> 33:17.962
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm feeling scarred, I lost my son right at the end of it.
33:19.383 --> 33:26.885
[SPEAKER_00]: I lost my daughter, which he was 16, I lost my wife two years a year before the pandemic.
33:28.106 --> 33:29.686
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so, so sorry, Ben.
33:29.786 --> 33:30.667
[SPEAKER_02]: How are you doing?
33:31.647 --> 33:32.647
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing well.
33:34.068 --> 33:35.128
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing well for them.
33:37.029 --> 33:40.050
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing well for all my friends I've lost over the years.
33:41.560 --> 33:45.224
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still here to talk to your stories and tell their stories with pride.
33:46.406 --> 33:49.669
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you said a long time ago you were going to write a memoir.
33:49.749 --> 33:50.791
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you still going to do it?
33:51.351 --> 33:52.593
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still going to do it.
33:53.774 --> 33:57.859
[SPEAKER_02]: Ben, when you write that book, would you please come back and let me promote it with you?
33:57.879 --> 33:59.761
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love for you to do that.
34:00.511 --> 34:13.542
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope you know how deeply entrenched you are in pop culture, in entertainment history, in black history, in music, and dance history, and how beloved you are by millions of fans.
34:13.923 --> 34:17.826
[SPEAKER_02]: We've had more requests to have you on our show than any other entertainer.
34:18.627 --> 34:19.127
[SPEAKER_00]: Really?
34:19.147 --> 34:26.053
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you all for wanting me to come on the show and talk to you and I hope you enjoy it.
34:27.374 --> 34:28.495
[SPEAKER_00]: The code I'm wearing.
34:30.943 --> 34:33.324
[SPEAKER_00]: is I'm the ambassador for this brand.
34:33.925 --> 34:35.426
[SPEAKER_00]: It's called Snow Milk.
34:36.467 --> 34:46.594
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people stop me in the streets and go, where did you get this guy named Dooby the design and this guy is a partner in Jamie.
34:47.114 --> 34:49.316
[SPEAKER_00]: So I am the ambassador for his clothes.
34:49.956 --> 34:54.439
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you're about his interest, it's going to realsnowmilk.com
34:57.233 --> 35:02.976
[SPEAKER_00]: get a C. Online close and you mentioned my name you get 20% off.
35:03.756 --> 35:05.617
[SPEAKER_02]: Real snowmilk.com.
35:05.917 --> 35:06.737
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
35:07.098 --> 35:10.239
[SPEAKER_02]: And all we have to do is mention your name for a 20% discount.
35:10.499 --> 35:14.881
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an LQ code into the code has been varied.
35:16.222 --> 35:16.722
[SPEAKER_02]: And you get it.
35:17.732 --> 35:19.073
[SPEAKER_02]: That is great to know.
35:19.153 --> 35:28.217
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Mr. Ben Verine, it's been such an immense pleasure and honor meeting you, having this chance to reminisce with you about your monumental life and career.
35:28.237 --> 35:29.877
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Harvey.
35:30.098 --> 35:31.078
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been wonderful.
35:31.858 --> 35:36.921
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't usually talk about it as much, but you ask me questions that go deep.
35:37.881 --> 35:45.284
[SPEAKER_00]: And I appreciate your way you handle these questions and what you allowed me to express.
35:45.885 --> 35:46.605
[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you.
35:47.043 --> 35:52.426
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Ben, thank you for all the great performances for all the joy you've brought to the world.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Most of all, thank you for taking the time to appear in our show.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We will never, ever, ever forget it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I can't wait to have you back when you write that book.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to come back.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Do my brothers and not then invite me to sign my blue flag.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Our guest has been the legendary Ben Varene for more information about Mr. Varene, please visit his official website, therealbenvarene.com.
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[SPEAKER_02]: My name is Harvey Brownstone.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you all for joining us.
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[SPEAKER_02]: See you next time.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you to my producers Steve Silver, my managers Rick Marcelli and Robin Bragg Marcelli of the Marcelli Company in Hollywood, my director of Programming Robert Monigan, my editor Isaiah Sherylampetus, and my entire team at the XPTV1 Network in the UK.